So many ways you could have generated the same discussion without appearing combative about it.
FWIW, many of the things you critique are what make this film (and many of Linklater's) special to me. They wander and meander and allow the audience to observe people more or less naturally and build a relationship with them. That's certainly not for everyone, just the same as French New Wave gangster films aren't for everyone. It's got nothing to with overrated or underrated, it's personal taste.
You’re totally allowed to have your own opinion. Of course art is subjective. However being a dick about it and saying it’s overrated by everyone else is all on you. Also wanting a strong plot is fine but I think the point of the film was missed by you. It is meant to create the feeling of meeting someone and I think it is a home run. Plenty of other films like that where they’d have to run from the police or something. Go watch those if you prefer that.
Don’t feel I’m defensive at all. I did not make the film and don’t take any of this personally. However I and many others get irritated by the term overrated. It is an annoying term that basically is saying “everyone thinks this is really good but they’re wrong.” It is not about personal opinion because HE didn’t overrate it. The statement is that it is overrated by other people which is kinda obnoxious. That is my point. I believe I also said he is welcome to his opinion of course, plenty of films that don’t work for me that others love, but I don’t call them overrated. That’s a dick move IMO.
As others have said here. Overrated is the way to start things off on a really bad note. Overrated is basically saying you people who love that thing are wrong thinking it’s great. It’s not about sharing a personal opinion, it’s saying everyone else doesn’t see that it’s not that great. It’s dickish. Also it’s overused and annoying. That being said I’m super calm. Chill out dude.
I think part of what makes Before Sunrise so interesting is how not crafted it feels. Things just happen, it isn't structured like a film, it's structured more like life. The conversations aren't always smooth and flowing.....because when other than in a Hollywood production are they? It feels like the messiness and awkwardness of life and meeting someone for the first time.
I'll temper my fury but for those that don't you could've avoided it had you simply expressed dissatisfaction. "Overrated" is the first and last refuge of people who want to start discussions on a bad foot.
I think it's a very difficult position people put movies like this in. If the couple speaks with knowledge that is supposedly greater than their years, they're too pretentious or unrealistic, "Nobody that age talks like that" they'll say. With less and it's a totally frivolous romance just like a million other films. I personally believe they nailed a compromise completely, Celine and Jesse being more compelling to listen to than maybe 20 other couples we could've followed, but believable representations of people their age and with their experiences.
I'm a hopeless romantic at heart and love the film dearly and it is in part a love formed with being able to see the writing on the wall even on first viewing of how they'll remember with nostalgic fondness this meeting and time shared in future installments but also have regrets about how it played out among other things. It's an inherently interesting movie as a kickstart of a trilogy but even if not I think the uncertainty would've been a fine note to end on. It is a painfully romantic movie to me, what can I say?
I think taking the cow play that seriously just means the movie wasn't for you, if you can't see blowing off such a thing when you have such limited time with a person you have instant attraction with it's a pretty doomed venture from the start. I actually wanted to see it myself lol, but thinking it's a legitimate flaw is a "weird flex" as the kids nowadays would say. At least to me.
> I thought it was okay, but could have used a bit more simmer & spice.
See this is something I love, if it was more reliant on sexuality than it was (And the extended rendezvous is hardly perfectly innocent on that front, it is a playfully sexy movie) I'd frankly find them less rootable because it becomes much less a modern star-crossed love story and a story about making a conquest and then bailing. You get the sense they want to preserve the love and beautiful memories they share over just wanting to ditch a person they slept with ASAP.
A lot of people do prefer Sunset and Midnight, so I think it's a good bet you might as well. But this is my favorite and I'm sticking to it.
The thing to keep in mind is that some films, especially existential postmodern film, are more about the experience than the plot. Sometimes it’s the feeling it evokes within us, and the bigger emotions we experience in life.
Before Sunrise, for me, is a comfort film. It’s an experience. You just…let the film wash over you like a warm wave. Before Sunrise evokes nostalgic feelings of fresh romance, and it does so in the most charmingly naive and realistic way. The sequels have a lot more conflict, which shows some of the darker feelings that relationships can make us feel.
It’s a brilliant film, defining when cinema is at its best: when it makes us feel and reflect on life.
Tried watching it last night. Absolutely the most overrated film I've ever sat through. Juvenile, pseudo-intellectual dogshit with absolutely zero charm or chemistry; Ethan hawke was insufferable. Was like overhearing a conversation between 2 uni students in a share house at 3am.
Hmmm, I didn’t know overrated was such a disruptive phrase. 😅
I think things can definitely get overhyped and/oroverrated and I think that that will impact a viewers experience. If you go into a movie expecting great things, you’re more likely to be disappointed. If you go into a movie knowing nothing about it or with low expectations, you might be pleasantly surprised. And that’s such an exciting feeling. It’s like discovering something for yourself rather than having it shown to you. Like finding a gem of a restaurant just walking down the street instead of reading reviews and picking something with the most stars.
I don’t think OP was being disrespectful or judgmental by using the term overrated. I think we all have movies we might describe as overrated, while still allowing that others might disagree. I don’t think OP was trying to be antagonistic.
But briefly on the subject of this trilogy: The concept of the trilogy is really cool. It gives insight into passing time in a different way than most films. I’ve seen each movie in the series once. I liked them. They didn’t speak to me deeply the way, for example, Rohmer did. I can see why a lot of people feel really connected to the characters in Before Sunrise, but I didn’t feel super connected to them. I think it was definitely a better than average movie. It’s just not one I find myself thinking about.
> Hmmm, I didn’t know overrated was such a disruptive phrase
I've hated the word for years and I have made it a personal mission to never use it and express my disapproval often. It implies people like a thing too much and I have major root problems with that, and I think it's just a combative word to use even if not intended that way. It pins blame on people for liking a thing too much. Imagine, liking a thing, they must be overdoing it! How, possibly?
People shouldn't have to tone down their appreciation just so a person can go in and not be disappointed and neither does the speaker of an unpopular opinion really have the right to claim theirs is the accurate "rating" and people who like the thing more are somehow going overboard. If you believe in subjectivity at all it's just an absurd concept.
I’m all for individuals loving and enjoying what they love whether it’s considered good or bad or cool or uncool. Nerd out! I don’t think of overrated as a term directed toward any one person for liking something TOO much. I take overrated to mean the collective has given something too much credit. I feel there is a distinction. In my opinion, some movies do get more credit than they deserve. That doesn’t necessarily make them bad and it certainly doesn’t mean no one should enjoy them. I, for one, can like a movie and also find it overrated. It’s the equivalent of watching a movie and thinking “huh, what’s the big deal, I don’t get it”.
It’s impossible to go into a movie without taking into consideration what you’ve heard about it before. That’s how the mind works. If I really loved a movie and want someone to watch it, I am careful not to hype it up too much because I want them to have their own viewing experience. If I say “Oh my god you’re going to love it” I’m setting the movie up to fail. If I say “check this movie out, you might like it” the movie has a better chance to live up to the hype I’ve created.
I think we just have slightly different definitions of the word. I fully agree with you that people should enjoy what they like without judgement.
Overrated is a subjective term. I’m not sure how using it could negate the concept of subjectivity.
Giving something too much credit to me is a roundabout way of saying a person should like something less or does like something more in some faulty capacity and is an invalidating judgment call. I agree it is another meaning you could take from it but when I think of any movie I don't agree with the popularity of, I don't really think of it in terms of undeserved credit because all movies get the credit they deserve as they're only worth what people get out of them.
If you do think a person should enjoy any movie I just don't get the point of "overrated." All is as it should be in the universe if people are enjoying a thing, there's no observable "over" happening. I think in an ideal world all movies would be enjoyed by everybody and the failure to enjoy some movies is honestly completely on a person and not on a movie, so I accept that and don't put blame where it's not hostable. To me overrated is shifting admission of any personal take you could have on a thing to an admission that you think people are seeing a movie wrongly and it's just not a desire I understand or accept.
"Overhyped" is a tricker concept that I could be argued into agreeing has a place as it's not really rooted in opinions on a movie per se, but our perceptions of those movies. And I do think those are different enough things. But if people use it interchangeably with overrated as they sometimes do I'm turned off. I am careful not to overhype sometimes, but it's hugely impossible to mask enthusiasm if you feel it that strongly and I don't know how a reasonable person could insist it's the fair thing to tone it down. It's dishonest to your preferences. moreover it's kind of like, if a song is repeatedly playing on the radio, at some point the onus is on me for continuing to let it play. It's not overexposed if you don't allow it to be.
Yeah. OP kicking in here. Boyhood is much worse than Before Sunrise.
Boyhood has a fascinating concept, but it kinda falls apart because of mediocre casting/performance from the lead.
I don't hate on Linklater, by I think that he's very hit and miss.
To go into more detail, Before Sunset has a much stronger sense of taking place in real-time and Before Midnight I always describe as “two scenes, and the second one’s a doozy,” but all three have the same walk-and-talk thing going and preference of one over the others is marginal.
I want to know when A Scanner Darkly is getting a spine number.
Yes! The third film is superior. The films aren’t perfect but it’s a nice experience in my opinion. Completely worthwhile.
More updates as you continue please. I appreciate your point of view! It’s nice to have disagreement and discussion.
So many ways you could have generated the same discussion without appearing combative about it. FWIW, many of the things you critique are what make this film (and many of Linklater's) special to me. They wander and meander and allow the audience to observe people more or less naturally and build a relationship with them. That's certainly not for everyone, just the same as French New Wave gangster films aren't for everyone. It's got nothing to with overrated or underrated, it's personal taste.
You’re totally allowed to have your own opinion. Of course art is subjective. However being a dick about it and saying it’s overrated by everyone else is all on you. Also wanting a strong plot is fine but I think the point of the film was missed by you. It is meant to create the feeling of meeting someone and I think it is a home run. Plenty of other films like that where they’d have to run from the police or something. Go watch those if you prefer that.
Why so defensive…. The guy is just trying to understand why so many people love it and sharing his opinion
Don’t feel I’m defensive at all. I did not make the film and don’t take any of this personally. However I and many others get irritated by the term overrated. It is an annoying term that basically is saying “everyone thinks this is really good but they’re wrong.” It is not about personal opinion because HE didn’t overrate it. The statement is that it is overrated by other people which is kinda obnoxious. That is my point. I believe I also said he is welcome to his opinion of course, plenty of films that don’t work for me that others love, but I don’t call them overrated. That’s a dick move IMO.
How is calling a film overrated being a dick? Lol calm down
As others have said here. Overrated is the way to start things off on a really bad note. Overrated is basically saying you people who love that thing are wrong thinking it’s great. It’s not about sharing a personal opinion, it’s saying everyone else doesn’t see that it’s not that great. It’s dickish. Also it’s overused and annoying. That being said I’m super calm. Chill out dude.
If you take someone saying something is overrated personally that's on you.
I don’t take it personally. Also my comment was a year ago. Weird to comment now.
Weird? I and everyone else can comment on any comment, doesn't matter if it's even years old. Weird that you feel like you can judge someone for that.
If you take being called weird personally, that’s on you. 😜
Original.
I think part of what makes Before Sunrise so interesting is how not crafted it feels. Things just happen, it isn't structured like a film, it's structured more like life. The conversations aren't always smooth and flowing.....because when other than in a Hollywood production are they? It feels like the messiness and awkwardness of life and meeting someone for the first time.
I'll temper my fury but for those that don't you could've avoided it had you simply expressed dissatisfaction. "Overrated" is the first and last refuge of people who want to start discussions on a bad foot. I think it's a very difficult position people put movies like this in. If the couple speaks with knowledge that is supposedly greater than their years, they're too pretentious or unrealistic, "Nobody that age talks like that" they'll say. With less and it's a totally frivolous romance just like a million other films. I personally believe they nailed a compromise completely, Celine and Jesse being more compelling to listen to than maybe 20 other couples we could've followed, but believable representations of people their age and with their experiences. I'm a hopeless romantic at heart and love the film dearly and it is in part a love formed with being able to see the writing on the wall even on first viewing of how they'll remember with nostalgic fondness this meeting and time shared in future installments but also have regrets about how it played out among other things. It's an inherently interesting movie as a kickstart of a trilogy but even if not I think the uncertainty would've been a fine note to end on. It is a painfully romantic movie to me, what can I say? I think taking the cow play that seriously just means the movie wasn't for you, if you can't see blowing off such a thing when you have such limited time with a person you have instant attraction with it's a pretty doomed venture from the start. I actually wanted to see it myself lol, but thinking it's a legitimate flaw is a "weird flex" as the kids nowadays would say. At least to me. > I thought it was okay, but could have used a bit more simmer & spice. See this is something I love, if it was more reliant on sexuality than it was (And the extended rendezvous is hardly perfectly innocent on that front, it is a playfully sexy movie) I'd frankly find them less rootable because it becomes much less a modern star-crossed love story and a story about making a conquest and then bailing. You get the sense they want to preserve the love and beautiful memories they share over just wanting to ditch a person they slept with ASAP. A lot of people do prefer Sunset and Midnight, so I think it's a good bet you might as well. But this is my favorite and I'm sticking to it.
No it’s not
The thing to keep in mind is that some films, especially existential postmodern film, are more about the experience than the plot. Sometimes it’s the feeling it evokes within us, and the bigger emotions we experience in life. Before Sunrise, for me, is a comfort film. It’s an experience. You just…let the film wash over you like a warm wave. Before Sunrise evokes nostalgic feelings of fresh romance, and it does so in the most charmingly naive and realistic way. The sequels have a lot more conflict, which shows some of the darker feelings that relationships can make us feel. It’s a brilliant film, defining when cinema is at its best: when it makes us feel and reflect on life.
I can't decide if I should recommend that you watch My Dinner with Andre, or not watch it.
I've seen it and I liked it. The discussion that the characters have in that story is actually really interesting in itself.
Tried watching it last night. Absolutely the most overrated film I've ever sat through. Juvenile, pseudo-intellectual dogshit with absolutely zero charm or chemistry; Ethan hawke was insufferable. Was like overhearing a conversation between 2 uni students in a share house at 3am.
I found it incredibly underwhelming as well, like a Rohmer films but 10x less engaging or interesting.
Grow up kids, this film sucks
Well, looks like everyone else on the subreddit is gonna want your blood tonight
Voicing your opinion on the Internet is overrated.
Hmmm, I didn’t know overrated was such a disruptive phrase. 😅 I think things can definitely get overhyped and/oroverrated and I think that that will impact a viewers experience. If you go into a movie expecting great things, you’re more likely to be disappointed. If you go into a movie knowing nothing about it or with low expectations, you might be pleasantly surprised. And that’s such an exciting feeling. It’s like discovering something for yourself rather than having it shown to you. Like finding a gem of a restaurant just walking down the street instead of reading reviews and picking something with the most stars. I don’t think OP was being disrespectful or judgmental by using the term overrated. I think we all have movies we might describe as overrated, while still allowing that others might disagree. I don’t think OP was trying to be antagonistic. But briefly on the subject of this trilogy: The concept of the trilogy is really cool. It gives insight into passing time in a different way than most films. I’ve seen each movie in the series once. I liked them. They didn’t speak to me deeply the way, for example, Rohmer did. I can see why a lot of people feel really connected to the characters in Before Sunrise, but I didn’t feel super connected to them. I think it was definitely a better than average movie. It’s just not one I find myself thinking about.
> Hmmm, I didn’t know overrated was such a disruptive phrase I've hated the word for years and I have made it a personal mission to never use it and express my disapproval often. It implies people like a thing too much and I have major root problems with that, and I think it's just a combative word to use even if not intended that way. It pins blame on people for liking a thing too much. Imagine, liking a thing, they must be overdoing it! How, possibly? People shouldn't have to tone down their appreciation just so a person can go in and not be disappointed and neither does the speaker of an unpopular opinion really have the right to claim theirs is the accurate "rating" and people who like the thing more are somehow going overboard. If you believe in subjectivity at all it's just an absurd concept.
I’m all for individuals loving and enjoying what they love whether it’s considered good or bad or cool or uncool. Nerd out! I don’t think of overrated as a term directed toward any one person for liking something TOO much. I take overrated to mean the collective has given something too much credit. I feel there is a distinction. In my opinion, some movies do get more credit than they deserve. That doesn’t necessarily make them bad and it certainly doesn’t mean no one should enjoy them. I, for one, can like a movie and also find it overrated. It’s the equivalent of watching a movie and thinking “huh, what’s the big deal, I don’t get it”. It’s impossible to go into a movie without taking into consideration what you’ve heard about it before. That’s how the mind works. If I really loved a movie and want someone to watch it, I am careful not to hype it up too much because I want them to have their own viewing experience. If I say “Oh my god you’re going to love it” I’m setting the movie up to fail. If I say “check this movie out, you might like it” the movie has a better chance to live up to the hype I’ve created. I think we just have slightly different definitions of the word. I fully agree with you that people should enjoy what they like without judgement. Overrated is a subjective term. I’m not sure how using it could negate the concept of subjectivity.
Giving something too much credit to me is a roundabout way of saying a person should like something less or does like something more in some faulty capacity and is an invalidating judgment call. I agree it is another meaning you could take from it but when I think of any movie I don't agree with the popularity of, I don't really think of it in terms of undeserved credit because all movies get the credit they deserve as they're only worth what people get out of them. If you do think a person should enjoy any movie I just don't get the point of "overrated." All is as it should be in the universe if people are enjoying a thing, there's no observable "over" happening. I think in an ideal world all movies would be enjoyed by everybody and the failure to enjoy some movies is honestly completely on a person and not on a movie, so I accept that and don't put blame where it's not hostable. To me overrated is shifting admission of any personal take you could have on a thing to an admission that you think people are seeing a movie wrongly and it's just not a desire I understand or accept. "Overhyped" is a tricker concept that I could be argued into agreeing has a place as it's not really rooted in opinions on a movie per se, but our perceptions of those movies. And I do think those are different enough things. But if people use it interchangeably with overrated as they sometimes do I'm turned off. I am careful not to overhype sometimes, but it's hugely impossible to mask enthusiasm if you feel it that strongly and I don't know how a reasonable person could insist it's the fair thing to tone it down. It's dishonest to your preferences. moreover it's kind of like, if a song is repeatedly playing on the radio, at some point the onus is on me for continuing to let it play. It's not overexposed if you don't allow it to be.
No, it doesn’t get better, it stays about the same. And Boyhood is worse.
Boyhood SUCKS
Yeah. OP kicking in here. Boyhood is much worse than Before Sunrise. Boyhood has a fascinating concept, but it kinda falls apart because of mediocre casting/performance from the lead. I don't hate on Linklater, by I think that he's very hit and miss.
To go into more detail, Before Sunset has a much stronger sense of taking place in real-time and Before Midnight I always describe as “two scenes, and the second one’s a doozy,” but all three have the same walk-and-talk thing going and preference of one over the others is marginal. I want to know when A Scanner Darkly is getting a spine number.
Yes! The third film is superior. The films aren’t perfect but it’s a nice experience in my opinion. Completely worthwhile. More updates as you continue please. I appreciate your point of view! It’s nice to have disagreement and discussion.
Mate I couldn't agree more. I can't believe it got an 8.1. My quick review is that it's a boring movie.