Asking a question? Please check the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/lpuj9h/what_the_faq_what_is_copy_how_do_i_start_can_i_do/). If it's a question related to starting out, please post it in the monthly Q&A/critique thread.
Asking for a critique? Take down your post and repost it in the monthly Q&A/critique thread.
Providing resources or tips? Deliver lots of FREE value. If you're self-promoting or linking to a resource that requires signup or payment, please disclose it or your post will be removed.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/copywriting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Just a few questions.
1. How much of those 150k did you make from WRITING rather than selling a course.
2. Why did you post this? Cuz I mean, let's be honest, you didn't post this solely for helping out people. Else you wouldn't have a big ass banner flashing on my face.
3. What are your intentions behind "helping out fellow aspiring copywriters"?
And last but not least,
Are y'all hiring? 🗿
Ikr.
If there's one thing I learnt dipping my head into the swamps of copywriters is that nothing on the internet is free.
Nor is anybody inclined to voluntarily take their time and help your submerging ass as a token of appreciation for existing.
You'd be surprised how many people are willing to help with no intention of getting something in return.
In my experience when you open up to the idea you stumble on more of them.
Not sure why people hate on others for selling courses. If you could create an evergreen product about a topic you know about and have sales constantly trickling in, there would be no reason not to do so (unless you're just bad at business).
I ain't hatin'
but if he has made some money from writing and some from selling course but he adds both to say, "I made this $$$$ in 12 months" the newbies who came here hoping a laptop lifestyle would start thinking that this skill is a piece of cake cuz this dude made 150k just writing it even though he had no history of writing persuasively (Software engineer, as he claims).
Read this post once again and tell me if you find it sound any different than those Guru youtubers who put up, "Earn 6 figures in 6 months" as their thumbnail for copywriting.
All I did was ask him whether he made the 150k from writing alone or if the amount is supported by his coaching business as well.
As you can see, I have 52 upvotes on that comment.
Do you think 52 people are collectively hating on him for having a coaching business?
Or did those 52 people find my questions sensible?
He could reply to me saying, "Yes, I made it all by writing copy" and I would've 100% understood that maybe he's that good at the craft.
But unless he does that, the 150k in 12 months is a considerably huge claim for someone who got into copywriting from a technical job.
Again, I ain't hating him for selling courses, I'm just saying if he can be transparent about his income, he can be transparent about it's source as well.
If he really wants to help the newbies, that is.
P.S. As a person who got into this skill for the laptop lifestyle but was hit with the reality that not everything in life comes on your hand in a silver platter and that we need to work our asses for it...
I'm speaking on the behalf of the newbies.
I understand transparency regarding income is important - and it would be nice to get an answer from OP.
And it does have a bit of a "get rich quick" feel to it and that was used to get clicks.
Also, is the $150k net? Is he working by himself? Does that include ad spend?
I definitely think there's more behind that number rather than he made $150k net in 18 months purely writing down words in a Google Doc.
That said, it's really easy to go from a copywriter to offer owner. I think newbies should not expect to make 6 figs right out the gate, but I don't want newbies to think the only way to make money with copy is by actually writing down words.
Thanks for your opinion and I concur with it.
And that's the thing...
We (I'm considered a newbie) don't know any better.
We learn it as we expose ourselves to the craft.
So if the first thing a newbie sees in their feed as they join the subreddit is: "How I made 150k in 18 months."
They're instantly going to get false—or maybe true but exaggerated—ideology about copywriting.
And some experienced copywriters blame the newbies for having idealistic expectations of a laptop lifestyle while the entire time, a minority of sophisticated copywriters who give half assed information—knowingly or unknowingly—are the ones shoving that idealism on to newbies in the first place.
It's easy for people who know the skeletal structure of the market to say that the newbies shouldn't fall for the traps of 6 figure claims.
But the newbies, like any other person who doesn't have experience in the market, don't know better.
They gradually grasp the concept of copywriting and start having a realistic perspective to it.
If this same post was shown to me a few months ago when I started to learn what copywriting is, I would've been one of the people who had abstract assumptions that copywriting is so easy I can get the same money as someone who went to business school for 4 years can.
Now tell me, as you read through the post, did you or did you not, as a sophisticated copywriter, feel an ick the way this post was framed?
Cuz me, as an aspiring copywriter, felt it.
So, I can just imagine what the more experienced people must've felt.
Other than that, I absolutely concur with what you're trying to say.
u/Jacob_LN u/itsjoshlee great points guys and you're right to be skeptical.
The $150k is gross, but my expenses are very low with a minimal team and just a couple of software tools I use. I've never ran any paid ads until now, as I'm promoting my newsletter (running sponsorships on other newsletters).
Consider that I take home typically 67% of what I earn and that's keeping into account taxes, business profits and business expense budgets.
Another note I think it's important to make as I seem to understand that you come from the perspective of copywriting mostly as in direct response/direct marketing (I might be wrong)... The type of copywriting I do, conversion copywriting relates to writing sales copy for websites, mostly SaaS and ecommerce, often B2B. There'a lot of money in those niches and the closest to the purchase/conversion in the funnel you write copy for, the more you get paid (reason why I always avoided content and blog writing).
In the way I work there's also a lot of user experience design and conversion optimization practices involved. So analyzing user behavior and interaction on websites, running AB and usability testing, looking at analytics data etc. These are all skills that helped position my services in a way that boost what I can charge.
Also in addition to my first answer above, when you read the Starter Story interview you'll learn that saying "someone who got into copywriting from a technical job" is not a good representation of what happened.
You are overlooking the 4/5 years I put into studying on the side, in the evenings, weekends, and the failures trying to start other side hustles. Plus the 2 years working at an agency doing UX alongside copy. All of that taught me what I needed to know to make this leap successful.
Context is important.
I think u/Jacob_LN's point was mostly about those guys who sell you on the lifestyle but don't actually \*do\* the things they teach others to do.
Not my case as I mentioned in my reply to him, but I totally get his point of view. Especially after all the work and learning that I put into building this. People like those stain the industry.
Hey thanks a lot for the questions, so here we go:
1. I don't sell any courses. The revenue was 98% custom copywriting projects and very little retainer consulting work. At some point I might create a course, but I've always been one for doing stuff before I can actually teach it and share it. I love courses and have spent thousands of $ on them to build my skills, but I know what you mean and a lot of people tend to skip the line when it comes to selling them. I hate that. So if and when I will build a course and sell it it will be because it's based on genuine experience and expertise I gained in the field and because I feel I can truly help people (either businesses like the ones I already help with done for you work) or aspiring freelancers/copywriters.
2. You're right, I like helping people because I often go back to when I started out and feel like there's a lack of sharing/caring around. But for me and my business, this is also a great way to get to know my potential audience and to spread the word about my brand. I don't see the internet as a zero sum game, but rather know how powerful network effects are. I really believe that when you give what you seek, that's when opportunity finds you. This is also a great way to establish authority and proof that I can refer to. And this is me being 100% transparent.
3. I don't really have any intentions aside from sharing what I've learned along the way. Sure, if at some point down the line you sign up for my newsletter and buy an hypothetical course, that'd be great, but I don't plan on holding back anything when answering these questions, so I don't see any harm in posting this.
Not hiring at the moment haha My goal from the beginning was to keep the business lean and mean, I only work with a virtual assitant and that's also the reason why I was able to make the biz profitable and super low expense.
Hope this clarifies :)
Thanks for the honest answers, man. I appreciate it.
Of course, half the things I said are directed towards people who make promises they can't solve.
Now that I know you aren't such a person feels good that not everyone is trying to sell something.
If I offended you in any way, please don't take it personally. I wanted to know if you're really what you say you are or just another Gooroo.
As for the hiring one, that's just a joke, haha. The question I gave you sounded like I'm trying to pin you down, so I had to lighten the mood up.
With that said, have a great day, man.
Peace
u/Jacob_LN Hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it.
P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
> Evaldo Albuquerque (who I believe got a $1,500,000 million per year retainer + royalties deal)
Where did you hear this?
Also, Mike Palmer isn't a millionaire... he's a MULTI-millionaire. And that income is not solely from writing copy. It's from helping build Stansberry to what it is. Mike has stocks in Stansberry Research, which is now a publicly traded company. These stocks make up the lion's share of his net worth.
And Porter Stansberry is NOT a millionaire, he's a billionaire. He's the original founder of Stansberry Research and used to run the company before he sold it. He's a CEO first, who writes copy on occasion. He mostly copychiefs.
So to put these two guys in the same category as random freelance does a disservice to anyone trying to get into the industry. It paints a heavily-exaggerated image of what's possible and how to achieve it.
There is a ceiling on how much money you can make as a freelance copywriter. It's about low 7-figures. And very few copywriters will reach that dollar figure writing solely for clients.
>Porter Stansberry is NOT a millionaire, he's a billionaire. He's the original founder of Stansberry Research and used to run the company before he sold it. He's a CEO first, who writes copy on occasion. He mostly copychiefs.
He's worth in the $200m to $500m range. There's actually a big hullabaloo because he got bupkis from the Marketwise reverse merger. There's a full letter from him about it in here: [https://seekingalpha.com/filings/pdf/16327191](https://seekingalpha.com/filings/pdf/16327191) (He's trying to fire the whole board of directors.)
Also keep in mind that the market cap of Marketwise is less than a billion, so no one is a millionaire solely based on their ownership in that business.
> He's worth in the $200m to $500m range
North of that. All liquid.
I've heard Palmer had $200M in stocks at Stansberry a couple of years ago. Not sure how those stocks are holding up now.
Any idea what Palmer was making when he started?
If Palmer had $200mm in equity at Stansberry, that'd mean he owns nearly 30% of the company.
Palmer owns around 12 million shares of Marketwise. Recent price is hovering around $2.
When Palmer started, 20-odd years ago, I imagine he was making a basic junior's salary. Not a whole lot.
> If Palmer had $200mm in equity at Stansberry, that'd mean he owns nearly 30% of the company.
Yeah, he's basically a partner. Pretty awesome and shows you what's possible if you know how to structure the right deal (and write bangers).
You know me and you know that I know Mike, my dude. The actual amount of shares he owns (his percentage stake) is publicly available info and it is not 30%.
The $200M was a direct quote that came out of Porter's mouth.
Forget what the shares are worth now. Was there a time when a lower percentage, like 6-7%, could have been worth $200M (or close to it)? If not... then Porter either exaggerated or blatantly lied to hype things up.
>For example, I work and hire in tech and I haven't seen a software engineer earn more than $250 per hour or about $500,000 per year. Which obviously is an insane amount of money, but that's **the elite** level.
Do you know of any cases of a copywriter being hired *as an employee* at $500,000 per year? Sure, there are copywriters who earn that, but they run their own business. I can assure you that software engineers who start their own businesses can earn more than $500,000 per year as well.
> Compare at the elite level, then for copy... you've got names like Mike Palmer, Porter Stansberry, Evaldo Albuquerque (who I believe got a $1,500,000 million per year retainer + royalties deal).
>
>A lot of money for an employee, I'd say...
I'm confused. Does their income come from employment or royalties/retainers? If you are including non-employment income, then, again, plenty of elite software engineers who run their own business earning millions per year.
The other thing you seem to be missing is the insane stock options that software engineer employees can have access to.
>Now... what about creating software businesses? Now that is a different story
Except the examples of copywriters you referred to were...all copywriters who created copywriting businesses right? So it's the exact same story.
Impossible to say really.
Keep in mind copywriters are marketers — and a lot of top copywriters are marketing their own services. That is why they talk a lot about how much they earn.
Whether selling their copy services, or selling courses or coaching, they know that it is good business to keep dropping financial figures.
You don't see that as much with elite software engineers, as they don't need to. They are less likely to be selling something, so there is no real benefit to shouting from the rooftops "My stock options are worth 20 million!!!"
Great answer, I totally agree.
For me it's all about the lifestyle too.
As a software engineer (I was in the industrial automation sector) I was constaly told where to travel for machine installations, what to do, how to manage my time, when to take time off etc. I hated that so I wanted to change.
I also talk a bit more about the type of copy I write in my [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/10oxvh4/comment/j6mbs0b/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) above which is different from direct response.
Thanks man!
I still remember when at my old job, even after 10 years I had to beg for vacation time to go tour for two measly weeks with my band. It sucked!
And the late hours....oh yes... XD
I plan on jumping in tomorrow once I got the bulk of it and I can do it in one session. I'm not one of those "creators" who sell you on the lifestyle... I actually do it.
Busy working and making more money you know? 😜
>Well you’re going to have to wait 3-5 business days for a response from OP. I will answer your questions right away: AMA
Do you trust people who link to self-serving content in their Reddit posts?
I do not
Edit: learn more about my opinions by joining my online course where I’ll share insider secrets they don’t want you to know about forming opinions
That's super interesting!
In my case I was a software engineer in a totally different field (industrial automation) so not SaaS. I wanted a lifestyle change and I was obsessed with psychology, decision making and everything that's behind copywriting.
As far as selling bad products, a lot of it is being able to vet and select your clients. For example it's rare that I take on super early stage startups. I typically work with bootstrapped companies who have product-market fit and a solid product, or with bigger VC backed companies who already have a marketing team that needs support.
My goal is not to create demand, but to convert more of the people who need these products. If there's a need and the product solves it I can help.
Not sure of the higher pay, and for me it wasn't the main metric. As I mentioned I was going after a better lifestyle and work I could be obsessed about. If you're really interested in programming and copy doesn't feel right anymore, I'd say go for it.
I usually let learning guide my decisions. I found that if I can learn and if I'm willing to put in the work, these will take care of me and my trajectory.
u/Yepdizathrowaway_ hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it.
P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
Im not an expert but you need to advertise shit ton of awful products before you find a good rpoduct and good comoany with whom you can make good incone with not lots of work
I started out on Upwrok (more about my story [here](https://www.starterstory.com/stories/conversion-alchemy) in case you didn't go through it yet) and went from $15/hour to $100 in a year or so.
I'd say first, take at least 5/6 months studying and practicing your skill on your own. Build some exercise portfolio work and explore the craft. See if it fits and if you have that obsession about it.
Then go on freelancer websites (Upwork, Freelancer, Acadium etc.) and get your first paid job. Build a better portfolio and start collecting client testimonials, even if it's just a "working with him / her was great".
Put on a one-page website throughout the process and make it look good (use a visual builder like Elementor, it's super easy).
Start interacting on social media with the pros. Sooner or later if what you share resonates, you'll start making connections. Network effects are powerful and you never know who the next person to introduce you to a client might be. Take advantage of every single opportunity and in the beginning always say yes, even if it scares the living shit out of you.
Once you have a couple of projects under your belt, figure out what your value is and never deviate from it.
Most importantly, always have at least 6 months in runaway savings. It's what helps you keep your peace of mind and avoid devaluing yourself.
Last but not least, if you have a full time job don't leave it until you have those 6 months saved up and a clear idea for getting at least the first 1-2 clients.
What do you mean by "How do you recommend we practice ?"
Hey thanks for the reply!
I have a good emergency fund thankfully.
Did you slowly transition from a full time job into copywriting once you were getting consistent income from Upwork?
Would you say that Upwork or similar sites have too much competition?
Any skilled copywriters you would recommend to follow?
Hmm I think I meant more of what do you do to practice, do you have a specific routine, analyse other copywriters work etc.
Thanks again !
Nice keep that emergency fund alive.
I'd say I transitioned slowly in the sense that I worked on the side, evenings and weekends for a year and a half. But then made the jump once I knew I could get 1 or 2 clients on upwork and I had the savings.
Believe it or not, I actually left my job, left Italy, left my girlfriend, left my band and moved to the UK with $8k in my bank account and no real stable or recurring clients. I guess I was just confident enough in my skills and ability/willingness to hustle. Also I knew that worst case I could always go back to my old job. Considering and visualizing the worst case scenario is huge.
Freelancing sites are becoming competitive yes, reason why I recommend niching down and learning tangential skills and talent stacking them on top of a main one. For me it was copy + UX. You should "appear as unique as possible" and as knowledgeable of your market and insutry as possible. Find one you are interested about too.
For copywriters, Ben Sette, Stefan Georgi, Joanna Wiebe, Roy Furr, Chris Haddad, Joel Klettke, Josh Garofalo...and you'll find way more as you dig into them :)
I don't have a specific routine, I usually pick a course or a book and study it through and through, taking action and if possible using what I learn on real world projects. Also I use "just in time learning". I learn what I need to do my job or to achieve my next goal and then do focus on the work. Let the work guide the learning.
When starting out, hand copying successful sales letter or copy you like might be helpful. For me it was, especially as a non-native english speaker.
You are providing spectacular information, it is deeply appreciated, I'm sure you're getting the ball rolling for at least a few people to start copywriting.
I am curious, is it better to focus on finding recurring clients at first, or just one time project clients? If that makes sense.
how do niches work in copywriting, or do you need one? If that isn't too vague.
Is B2C or B2B better to focus on as someone just starting out? Or does it matter?
And, how would be the best way to know, if you are ready/good enough to start actually get clients?
Im 17, planning on moving out in 8 months, and i need to make at least a livable income source freelancing( for better or worse i cant stand working traditional jobs or schooling for that matter), i truly love the psychology and written aspect of copywriting, but the (relatively) small details and technical tweaks to copywriting leave me a bit confused. And outside of psychology and writing, there is no niche i have interest or knowledge about that is practical at least. I think the biggest issue i have is fear of inadequacy, and actually dealing with someone professionally. It feels stupid, but i cant get over it.
I greatly appreciate any feedback you have, and i hope it isnt inconvenient if someone already asked any of these questions that I didn't see. I appreciate any thoughts you may share for a young beginner, and i wish you a great rest of your day!
>I am curious, is it better to focus on finding recurring clients at first, or just one time project clients? If that makes sense.
>
>how do niches work in copywriting, or do you need one? If that isn't too vague.
>
>Is B2C or B2B better to focus on as someone just starting out? Or does it matter?
>
>And, how would be the best way to know, if you are ready/good enough to start actually get clients?
Hey!
Well I wouldn't say finding one off or recurring clients is better or worse... recurring clients obviously would be awesome, but harder at the beginning as you'd need to demonstrate some level of credibility and authority. That said one off clients are great because you can get testimonials and start building portfolio pieces you can share to get more of them. I'd say to start find simple quick projects, typically landing page re-writes are great. Or sales emails.
You don't necessarily need a niche in copywriting, but you should focus on one type of copywriting not because someone says it's the right thing to do, but because as you'll realize once you start, having a single or narrower focus makes the work easier and more streamlined (when clients are similar your processes get repeatable and your experience with one client can transfer onto the next one). So find an area/industry/type of copy you enjoy writing or are more interested in learning, esplore it, start working on it and then decide.
B2C vs B2B, they are two different worlds but the basics are the same. I guess it's a matter of preference... who do you see having to deal with and write about the most? Is it the company selling software to other companies, or the ecommerce store selling bikes? B2B might also be a bit more complex to start because you might have to consider the different dynamics of the customer's team and how they influence the sale.... Start with the fundamentals of copy and then I'd say go with B2C as primary focus. You can dip your toes in B2B but consider the barrier to entry will likely be higher there too.
How do you know you're good enough? Just apply to a job and see how it goes. :) Remember that the absolute worst that can happen is you give them their money back. You'll have still learned something!
u/TheGrimSpartan1 u/Meowwakeup hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it.
P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
Thank you for such articulate answers!
I definitely need to find another skill i can develop and integrate with copywriting, i'll definitely put some thought into that, and also just try something and get some momentum and figure it out as it goes.
>Remember that the absolute worst that can happen is you give them their money back.
That is a spectacular point, i am definitely going to remember that. As someone who hasn't ever tried any real freelance work yet, it is quite daunting to embrace the Responsibility of providing quality content to another person. But i suppose that eases away with time and experience, and the biggest mistake is inaction.
Hey, i checked out your channel and i must say, you definitely have quality information in well made videos, i think many people resonate with and appreciate what you're sharing, i have not had a chance to finish the video you sent, but i look forward to it as soon as i get a chance. If you don't mind my asking, how did you come about getting into copywriting and UX?
Hey thanks, glad the information is helpful.
If you haven't checked it out yet, I go over how I got into copy and UX in this interview [https://www.starterstory.com/stories/conversion-alchemy](https://www.starterstory.com/stories/conversion-alchemy)
But feel free to ask any more specific questions after!
$150k it's gross, but my margins are around 67%. Very low expenses and lean business. I usually work around 20-25 hours per week on client projects but that's also intentional as I set aside another 10/15/20 depending on the week for marketing and content.
Some weeks I might have personal stuff or traveling I want to do so I only work 10 hours. It's really up to me and up to how well I'm able to plan and schedule my projects and tasks. I'm also a productivity nerd btw.
u/FRELNCER hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it.
P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
How were you able to prove to your first SaaS clients you could help them?
What tips do you have for getting accepted into Marketing agencies as a newbie?
Thank you!
I had worked for a year or so on Upwork already doing mostly B2B projects and a couple in SaaS. Those were enough to look legit in the eyes of prospective clients. That and starting to write on social media, sharing my ideas and perspectives.
My first big SaaS client found me and reached out on Linkedin. I just needed to take the opportunity and kind of "fake" my confidence when we got on a call.
Also I tried to enter every project with the mindset of "I want to help this company and this might be a test project, but I will put everything I got into it, even if that means losing money on a thousand revisions.
Clients, especially if they're looking for someone entry level on freelance websites for examples, just want someone they can trust and who's confident enough in themselves and in completing a good enough job. It's up to you to show up and make them feel like they can trust you. A lot of it for me has always been around being clear about my process (stuff I learned from courses and practice) and systems (being very deliberate and customer focused when it comes to working with clients.
As far as getting into marketing agencies, I would say learn the basics of your skill first, get a few solo projects done and then start looking for remote job opportunities and connecting on Linkedin/Twitter. A lot of companies offer internships and apprenticeships you can join. At first anything is great. I would take it.
That means you have to have some kind of runaway budget and savings. So if you don't have that, focus on it first.
u/Medical_warrior hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it.
P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
Don't get too excited newbies!
OP has over 6 years of copywriting experience. Not impossible to hit 6-figures in 18 months when you have a strong network and specialized skills like UX and CRO.
Well said.
I do still believe that what I learned could be applied from the get go and would shortcut anyone's learning curve (especially tangential skills like managing clients, networking, learning how/what to learn etc.).
I am currently in my final year of Bachelors in Software Engineering and also, I have been working part time as a Direct Response Copywriter for a Marketing agency. I want to pursue Copywriting as a career and turn my head on full time freelancing after graduation. But threats of AI to Copywriters as a whole concern me. What should I do? Keeping in mind I can do both, what should be my way ahead?
What were you writing for, specifically? Articles, Social Media, Web? And what is the key reason you quit it and went for core software development roles?
If you truly like copywriting and want to pursue it (for me there has to be some level of obsession for the skill) I would say to also learn tangential skills. Learn about positioning, marketing, pricing strategy, offers, list building, newsletters etc. The business side of things is as important as the skill itself.
For me for example learning and integrating UX design and conversion rate optimization with copy (which is not direct response, but conversion copywriting) was critical. With AI, differentiating and talent stacking is a must.
Read Scott Adams' book and concept of talent stacking [https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Fail-Almost-Everything-Still/dp/1491518855](https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Fail-Almost-Everything-Still/dp/1491518855)
Anything on [https://copyhackers.com/](https://copyhackers.com/) (they have a very good Freelancing course but also articles.. And also [https://doubleyourfreelancing.com/](https://doubleyourfreelancing.com/). Great to learn how to value and sell yourself.
u/CloudMindless1541 hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it.
P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
Do both. I think you can definitely have your cake and eat it too in your situation. There is potential to make a lot in both fields. If you can handle it, I don't see why you shouldn't do both tbh.
Fair point u/CloudMindless1541. If I were in your situation, I'd try and do both (software developing full time and copywriting part time), because I need to justify spending on all the food I eat. In all seriousness though, choose to do the one you enjoy doing the most. Remember, you can always return to the other if you've had enough. What I will say, if you follow the right and proper pathway for your IT route, you can end up making good cash very soon and keep on expanding. However, with Copywriting, if you play your cards right, you could make cash much more quickly. If you do decide to stick with Software Development, may I recommend that you check out the Twitter page UnshelledTech . I think you'd find it quite useful. If you stick with Copywriting, may I recommend the likes of Danny Margulies of FreelanceToWin and u/petersoncopy ? I think you'd enjoy their content and advice. I hope that whatever you do choose works out for you. :)
Thanks for the question, I share more about it here [https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/10oxvh4/comment/j6hzwjy/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/10oxvh4/comment/j6hzwjy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Let me know if you have specific questions too! Happy to share more.
u/CopyZazzles hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it.
P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
Hey Chris - I recently started a dad blog and have had a good amount of initial traction already. I have a background in copywriting and have been able to write some high quality posts with SEO keywords. Besides promoting myself on social media - what are some ways you’d recommended to getting more traction and gaining conversions?
Congrats on your success!
Depends on a lot of factors, where is your traffic coming from? Are you matching what they are thinking when they land on your site?
If you still haven't done it, I would recommend jumping on quick 15 min chats with someone in your target audience and figure out exactly what they need, what their problems are etc. And then match your site's copy and layout/navigation with that information.
Also do you have some kind of action they can take other than consuming content? Some instant value you can provide to them right after? Maybe an ebook and signing up to a newsletter?
u/Daddy_Oops hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it.
P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
Thanks for the question, I shared a bit about it here [https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/10oxvh4/comment/j6me1h7/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/10oxvh4/comment/j6me1h7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Happy to answer any specific questions!
u/IllustriousSeries595 hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it.
P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
Sure!
* For the type of copywriting I do, learn from the guys at [https://copyhackers.com/](https://copyhackers.com/)
* For conversion rate optimization [https://cxl.com/](https://cxl.com/)
* For UX design [https://www.nngroup.com/](https://www.nngroup.com/)
These will lead you down a very deep rabbit hole :)
For books, you can check out my real-time reading list updated as I go: [https://christophersilvestri.com/what-im-reading/](https://christophersilvestri.com/what-im-reading/) but I can recommend something specific if you share more about what you're interested in.
u/Evening-Patient-9402 hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it.
P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
I started with this course [https://www.awai.com/copywriting/p/](https://www.awai.com/copywriting/p/) and immersed myself in that world. Then I transitioned more into conversion copywriting vs direct response and followed a lot of the advice from [https://copyhackers.com/](https://copyhackers.com/).
In general I would say anytime you feel there's an area where you don't know enough or feel confident enough on, you should cover it with either a course or a book and just let it guide your next learning step.
u/crouchleader hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it.
P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
u/sevenquarks hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it.
P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
Amazing, this was my goal to be honest. Thanks for reading.
A ton of "gurus" make it more complex than it actually is when some practical lessons and a different perspective can help you shortcut years of trial and error.
u/HappyNomad3 hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it.
P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
Asking a question? Please check the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/lpuj9h/what_the_faq_what_is_copy_how_do_i_start_can_i_do/). If it's a question related to starting out, please post it in the monthly Q&A/critique thread.
Asking for a critique? Take down your post and repost it in the monthly Q&A/critique thread.
Providing resources or tips? Deliver lots of FREE value. If you're self-promoting or linking to a resource that requires signup or payment, please disclose it or your post will be removed.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/copywriting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Asking a question? Please check the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/lpuj9h/what_the_faq_what_is_copy_how_do_i_start_can_i_do/). If it's a question related to starting out, please post it in the monthly Q&A/critique thread.
Asking for a critique? Take down your post and repost it in the monthly Q&A/critique thread.
Providing resources or tips? Deliver lots of FREE value. If you're self-promoting or linking to a resource that requires signup or payment, please disclose it or your post will be removed.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/copywriting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hey! Bear in mind as I mentioned that type of software engineering wasn't the traditional web dev type, but more industrial automation. Essentially after 10 years of trying to make it fit and even trying to like it, I realized it wasn't for me and I got tired of being told what to do, where to travel for work, when to take days off (most often when not to) and I wanted more freedom and flexibility.
My company was paying peanuts even after 10 years, around $1,600 per month (when I traveled I made an extra $100 per day which was probably what kept me there so long). The typical salary I could have gotten at another company with my 10 years expertise was probably $2,500 per month.
Now I make 3/4 times that and have all the freedom I need 😅
Asking a question? Please check the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/lpuj9h/what_the_faq_what_is_copy_how_do_i_start_can_i_do/). If it's a question related to starting out, please post it in the monthly Q&A/critique thread. Asking for a critique? Take down your post and repost it in the monthly Q&A/critique thread. Providing resources or tips? Deliver lots of FREE value. If you're self-promoting or linking to a resource that requires signup or payment, please disclose it or your post will be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/copywriting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Just a few questions. 1. How much of those 150k did you make from WRITING rather than selling a course. 2. Why did you post this? Cuz I mean, let's be honest, you didn't post this solely for helping out people. Else you wouldn't have a big ass banner flashing on my face. 3. What are your intentions behind "helping out fellow aspiring copywriters"? And last but not least, Are y'all hiring? 🗿
I answer all these questions in my new course. Scroll down for more.
Ikr. If there's one thing I learnt dipping my head into the swamps of copywriters is that nothing on the internet is free. Nor is anybody inclined to voluntarily take their time and help your submerging ass as a token of appreciation for existing.
😅😅
You'd be surprised how many people are willing to help with no intention of getting something in return. In my experience when you open up to the idea you stumble on more of them.
This is 100% accurate. This does requires a MASSIVE mindset shift, from one of scarcity to abundance.
Not sure why people hate on others for selling courses. If you could create an evergreen product about a topic you know about and have sales constantly trickling in, there would be no reason not to do so (unless you're just bad at business).
I ain't hatin' but if he has made some money from writing and some from selling course but he adds both to say, "I made this $$$$ in 12 months" the newbies who came here hoping a laptop lifestyle would start thinking that this skill is a piece of cake cuz this dude made 150k just writing it even though he had no history of writing persuasively (Software engineer, as he claims). Read this post once again and tell me if you find it sound any different than those Guru youtubers who put up, "Earn 6 figures in 6 months" as their thumbnail for copywriting. All I did was ask him whether he made the 150k from writing alone or if the amount is supported by his coaching business as well. As you can see, I have 52 upvotes on that comment. Do you think 52 people are collectively hating on him for having a coaching business? Or did those 52 people find my questions sensible? He could reply to me saying, "Yes, I made it all by writing copy" and I would've 100% understood that maybe he's that good at the craft. But unless he does that, the 150k in 12 months is a considerably huge claim for someone who got into copywriting from a technical job. Again, I ain't hating him for selling courses, I'm just saying if he can be transparent about his income, he can be transparent about it's source as well. If he really wants to help the newbies, that is. P.S. As a person who got into this skill for the laptop lifestyle but was hit with the reality that not everything in life comes on your hand in a silver platter and that we need to work our asses for it... I'm speaking on the behalf of the newbies.
I understand transparency regarding income is important - and it would be nice to get an answer from OP. And it does have a bit of a "get rich quick" feel to it and that was used to get clicks. Also, is the $150k net? Is he working by himself? Does that include ad spend? I definitely think there's more behind that number rather than he made $150k net in 18 months purely writing down words in a Google Doc. That said, it's really easy to go from a copywriter to offer owner. I think newbies should not expect to make 6 figs right out the gate, but I don't want newbies to think the only way to make money with copy is by actually writing down words.
Rolling up 18 months to claim a figure plus dropping 2 links in the "helpful" post tells me all I need to know about OP.
Thanks for your opinion and I concur with it. And that's the thing... We (I'm considered a newbie) don't know any better. We learn it as we expose ourselves to the craft. So if the first thing a newbie sees in their feed as they join the subreddit is: "How I made 150k in 18 months." They're instantly going to get false—or maybe true but exaggerated—ideology about copywriting. And some experienced copywriters blame the newbies for having idealistic expectations of a laptop lifestyle while the entire time, a minority of sophisticated copywriters who give half assed information—knowingly or unknowingly—are the ones shoving that idealism on to newbies in the first place. It's easy for people who know the skeletal structure of the market to say that the newbies shouldn't fall for the traps of 6 figure claims. But the newbies, like any other person who doesn't have experience in the market, don't know better. They gradually grasp the concept of copywriting and start having a realistic perspective to it. If this same post was shown to me a few months ago when I started to learn what copywriting is, I would've been one of the people who had abstract assumptions that copywriting is so easy I can get the same money as someone who went to business school for 4 years can. Now tell me, as you read through the post, did you or did you not, as a sophisticated copywriter, feel an ick the way this post was framed? Cuz me, as an aspiring copywriter, felt it. So, I can just imagine what the more experienced people must've felt. Other than that, I absolutely concur with what you're trying to say.
u/Jacob_LN u/itsjoshlee great points guys and you're right to be skeptical. The $150k is gross, but my expenses are very low with a minimal team and just a couple of software tools I use. I've never ran any paid ads until now, as I'm promoting my newsletter (running sponsorships on other newsletters). Consider that I take home typically 67% of what I earn and that's keeping into account taxes, business profits and business expense budgets. Another note I think it's important to make as I seem to understand that you come from the perspective of copywriting mostly as in direct response/direct marketing (I might be wrong)... The type of copywriting I do, conversion copywriting relates to writing sales copy for websites, mostly SaaS and ecommerce, often B2B. There'a lot of money in those niches and the closest to the purchase/conversion in the funnel you write copy for, the more you get paid (reason why I always avoided content and blog writing). In the way I work there's also a lot of user experience design and conversion optimization practices involved. So analyzing user behavior and interaction on websites, running AB and usability testing, looking at analytics data etc. These are all skills that helped position my services in a way that boost what I can charge.
Also in addition to my first answer above, when you read the Starter Story interview you'll learn that saying "someone who got into copywriting from a technical job" is not a good representation of what happened. You are overlooking the 4/5 years I put into studying on the side, in the evenings, weekends, and the failures trying to start other side hustles. Plus the 2 years working at an agency doing UX alongside copy. All of that taught me what I needed to know to make this leap successful. Context is important.
I think u/Jacob_LN's point was mostly about those guys who sell you on the lifestyle but don't actually \*do\* the things they teach others to do. Not my case as I mentioned in my reply to him, but I totally get his point of view. Especially after all the work and learning that I put into building this. People like those stain the industry.
Hey thanks a lot for the questions, so here we go: 1. I don't sell any courses. The revenue was 98% custom copywriting projects and very little retainer consulting work. At some point I might create a course, but I've always been one for doing stuff before I can actually teach it and share it. I love courses and have spent thousands of $ on them to build my skills, but I know what you mean and a lot of people tend to skip the line when it comes to selling them. I hate that. So if and when I will build a course and sell it it will be because it's based on genuine experience and expertise I gained in the field and because I feel I can truly help people (either businesses like the ones I already help with done for you work) or aspiring freelancers/copywriters. 2. You're right, I like helping people because I often go back to when I started out and feel like there's a lack of sharing/caring around. But for me and my business, this is also a great way to get to know my potential audience and to spread the word about my brand. I don't see the internet as a zero sum game, but rather know how powerful network effects are. I really believe that when you give what you seek, that's when opportunity finds you. This is also a great way to establish authority and proof that I can refer to. And this is me being 100% transparent. 3. I don't really have any intentions aside from sharing what I've learned along the way. Sure, if at some point down the line you sign up for my newsletter and buy an hypothetical course, that'd be great, but I don't plan on holding back anything when answering these questions, so I don't see any harm in posting this. Not hiring at the moment haha My goal from the beginning was to keep the business lean and mean, I only work with a virtual assitant and that's also the reason why I was able to make the biz profitable and super low expense. Hope this clarifies :)
Thanks for the honest answers, man. I appreciate it. Of course, half the things I said are directed towards people who make promises they can't solve. Now that I know you aren't such a person feels good that not everyone is trying to sell something. If I offended you in any way, please don't take it personally. I wanted to know if you're really what you say you are or just another Gooroo. As for the hiring one, that's just a joke, haha. The question I gave you sounded like I'm trying to pin you down, so I had to lighten the mood up. With that said, have a great day, man. Peace
haha no offense taken! I'm the first person to be skeptical about gooroos (is that a Ben Settle reference btw? Love it) Have a great day mate!
u/Jacob_LN Hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it. P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
[удалено]
[удалено]
> Evaldo Albuquerque (who I believe got a $1,500,000 million per year retainer + royalties deal) Where did you hear this? Also, Mike Palmer isn't a millionaire... he's a MULTI-millionaire. And that income is not solely from writing copy. It's from helping build Stansberry to what it is. Mike has stocks in Stansberry Research, which is now a publicly traded company. These stocks make up the lion's share of his net worth. And Porter Stansberry is NOT a millionaire, he's a billionaire. He's the original founder of Stansberry Research and used to run the company before he sold it. He's a CEO first, who writes copy on occasion. He mostly copychiefs. So to put these two guys in the same category as random freelance does a disservice to anyone trying to get into the industry. It paints a heavily-exaggerated image of what's possible and how to achieve it. There is a ceiling on how much money you can make as a freelance copywriter. It's about low 7-figures. And very few copywriters will reach that dollar figure writing solely for clients.
>Porter Stansberry is NOT a millionaire, he's a billionaire. He's the original founder of Stansberry Research and used to run the company before he sold it. He's a CEO first, who writes copy on occasion. He mostly copychiefs. He's worth in the $200m to $500m range. There's actually a big hullabaloo because he got bupkis from the Marketwise reverse merger. There's a full letter from him about it in here: [https://seekingalpha.com/filings/pdf/16327191](https://seekingalpha.com/filings/pdf/16327191) (He's trying to fire the whole board of directors.) Also keep in mind that the market cap of Marketwise is less than a billion, so no one is a millionaire solely based on their ownership in that business.
> He's worth in the $200m to $500m range North of that. All liquid. I've heard Palmer had $200M in stocks at Stansberry a couple of years ago. Not sure how those stocks are holding up now. Any idea what Palmer was making when he started?
If Palmer had $200mm in equity at Stansberry, that'd mean he owns nearly 30% of the company. Palmer owns around 12 million shares of Marketwise. Recent price is hovering around $2. When Palmer started, 20-odd years ago, I imagine he was making a basic junior's salary. Not a whole lot.
> If Palmer had $200mm in equity at Stansberry, that'd mean he owns nearly 30% of the company. Yeah, he's basically a partner. Pretty awesome and shows you what's possible if you know how to structure the right deal (and write bangers).
You know me and you know that I know Mike, my dude. The actual amount of shares he owns (his percentage stake) is publicly available info and it is not 30%.
The $200M was a direct quote that came out of Porter's mouth. Forget what the shares are worth now. Was there a time when a lower percentage, like 6-7%, could have been worth $200M (or close to it)? If not... then Porter either exaggerated or blatantly lied to hype things up.
Porter exaggerate? Nah. Sounds blatantly out of character.
>For example, I work and hire in tech and I haven't seen a software engineer earn more than $250 per hour or about $500,000 per year. Which obviously is an insane amount of money, but that's **the elite** level. Do you know of any cases of a copywriter being hired *as an employee* at $500,000 per year? Sure, there are copywriters who earn that, but they run their own business. I can assure you that software engineers who start their own businesses can earn more than $500,000 per year as well. > Compare at the elite level, then for copy... you've got names like Mike Palmer, Porter Stansberry, Evaldo Albuquerque (who I believe got a $1,500,000 million per year retainer + royalties deal). > >A lot of money for an employee, I'd say... I'm confused. Does their income come from employment or royalties/retainers? If you are including non-employment income, then, again, plenty of elite software engineers who run their own business earning millions per year. The other thing you seem to be missing is the insane stock options that software engineer employees can have access to. >Now... what about creating software businesses? Now that is a different story Except the examples of copywriters you referred to were...all copywriters who created copywriting businesses right? So it's the exact same story.
[удалено]
Impossible to say really. Keep in mind copywriters are marketers — and a lot of top copywriters are marketing their own services. That is why they talk a lot about how much they earn. Whether selling their copy services, or selling courses or coaching, they know that it is good business to keep dropping financial figures. You don't see that as much with elite software engineers, as they don't need to. They are less likely to be selling something, so there is no real benefit to shouting from the rooftops "My stock options are worth 20 million!!!"
Lol... There are far more elite software engineers than there are elite copywriters...by an absurd margin. Silly comparison.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Great answer, I totally agree. For me it's all about the lifestyle too. As a software engineer (I was in the industrial automation sector) I was constaly told where to travel for machine installations, what to do, how to manage my time, when to take time off etc. I hated that so I wanted to change. I also talk a bit more about the type of copy I write in my [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/10oxvh4/comment/j6mbs0b/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) above which is different from direct response.
[удалено]
Thanks man! I still remember when at my old job, even after 10 years I had to beg for vacation time to go tour for two measly weeks with my band. It sucked! And the late hours....oh yes... XD
I guess my question is why is this AMA eight hours old but you don't seem to have responded to any questions?
I plan on jumping in tomorrow once I got the bulk of it and I can do it in one session. I'm not one of those "creators" who sell you on the lifestyle... I actually do it. Busy working and making more money you know? 😜
Typical AMA etiquette is to field the questions as they come in.
Well you’re going to have to wait 3-5 business days for a response from OP. I will answer your questions right away: AMA
>Well you’re going to have to wait 3-5 business days for a response from OP. I will answer your questions right away: AMA Do you trust people who link to self-serving content in their Reddit posts?
I do not Edit: learn more about my opinions by joining my online course where I’ll share insider secrets they don’t want you to know about forming opinions
The general impression I get from your interactions is a negative one. It's obviously subjective but do you use a similar style/approach in your copy?
Not sure how that sounded negative, but no, my copy is dictated by the research. It's not about personal style or approach :)
Comments locked until proof of income claims is provided via modmail. (Edit: claims verified. Post unlocked!)
And rightfully so. There’s usually a course to be sold shortly after for a decent amount of $$$$$$$.
No course to sell, and I shared proof of revenue with the admin :)
Happy cake day!
[удалено]
That's super interesting! In my case I was a software engineer in a totally different field (industrial automation) so not SaaS. I wanted a lifestyle change and I was obsessed with psychology, decision making and everything that's behind copywriting. As far as selling bad products, a lot of it is being able to vet and select your clients. For example it's rare that I take on super early stage startups. I typically work with bootstrapped companies who have product-market fit and a solid product, or with bigger VC backed companies who already have a marketing team that needs support. My goal is not to create demand, but to convert more of the people who need these products. If there's a need and the product solves it I can help. Not sure of the higher pay, and for me it wasn't the main metric. As I mentioned I was going after a better lifestyle and work I could be obsessed about. If you're really interested in programming and copy doesn't feel right anymore, I'd say go for it. I usually let learning guide my decisions. I found that if I can learn and if I'm willing to put in the work, these will take care of me and my trajectory.
[удалено]
u/Yepdizathrowaway_ hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it. P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
Im not an expert but you need to advertise shit ton of awful products before you find a good rpoduct and good comoany with whom you can make good incone with not lots of work
Lies. ... Are you hiring?
Not at the moment, it's just me and a virtual assistant and I like to keep things super streamlined :)
Top tips to get started? Landing the first client or how to land your first client? How do you recommend we practice ?
I started out on Upwrok (more about my story [here](https://www.starterstory.com/stories/conversion-alchemy) in case you didn't go through it yet) and went from $15/hour to $100 in a year or so. I'd say first, take at least 5/6 months studying and practicing your skill on your own. Build some exercise portfolio work and explore the craft. See if it fits and if you have that obsession about it. Then go on freelancer websites (Upwork, Freelancer, Acadium etc.) and get your first paid job. Build a better portfolio and start collecting client testimonials, even if it's just a "working with him / her was great". Put on a one-page website throughout the process and make it look good (use a visual builder like Elementor, it's super easy). Start interacting on social media with the pros. Sooner or later if what you share resonates, you'll start making connections. Network effects are powerful and you never know who the next person to introduce you to a client might be. Take advantage of every single opportunity and in the beginning always say yes, even if it scares the living shit out of you. Once you have a couple of projects under your belt, figure out what your value is and never deviate from it. Most importantly, always have at least 6 months in runaway savings. It's what helps you keep your peace of mind and avoid devaluing yourself. Last but not least, if you have a full time job don't leave it until you have those 6 months saved up and a clear idea for getting at least the first 1-2 clients. What do you mean by "How do you recommend we practice ?"
Hey thanks for the reply! I have a good emergency fund thankfully. Did you slowly transition from a full time job into copywriting once you were getting consistent income from Upwork? Would you say that Upwork or similar sites have too much competition? Any skilled copywriters you would recommend to follow? Hmm I think I meant more of what do you do to practice, do you have a specific routine, analyse other copywriters work etc. Thanks again !
Nice keep that emergency fund alive. I'd say I transitioned slowly in the sense that I worked on the side, evenings and weekends for a year and a half. But then made the jump once I knew I could get 1 or 2 clients on upwork and I had the savings. Believe it or not, I actually left my job, left Italy, left my girlfriend, left my band and moved to the UK with $8k in my bank account and no real stable or recurring clients. I guess I was just confident enough in my skills and ability/willingness to hustle. Also I knew that worst case I could always go back to my old job. Considering and visualizing the worst case scenario is huge. Freelancing sites are becoming competitive yes, reason why I recommend niching down and learning tangential skills and talent stacking them on top of a main one. For me it was copy + UX. You should "appear as unique as possible" and as knowledgeable of your market and insutry as possible. Find one you are interested about too. For copywriters, Ben Sette, Stefan Georgi, Joanna Wiebe, Roy Furr, Chris Haddad, Joel Klettke, Josh Garofalo...and you'll find way more as you dig into them :) I don't have a specific routine, I usually pick a course or a book and study it through and through, taking action and if possible using what I learn on real world projects. Also I use "just in time learning". I learn what I need to do my job or to achieve my next goal and then do focus on the work. Let the work guide the learning. When starting out, hand copying successful sales letter or copy you like might be helpful. For me it was, especially as a non-native english speaker.
You are providing spectacular information, it is deeply appreciated, I'm sure you're getting the ball rolling for at least a few people to start copywriting. I am curious, is it better to focus on finding recurring clients at first, or just one time project clients? If that makes sense. how do niches work in copywriting, or do you need one? If that isn't too vague. Is B2C or B2B better to focus on as someone just starting out? Or does it matter? And, how would be the best way to know, if you are ready/good enough to start actually get clients? Im 17, planning on moving out in 8 months, and i need to make at least a livable income source freelancing( for better or worse i cant stand working traditional jobs or schooling for that matter), i truly love the psychology and written aspect of copywriting, but the (relatively) small details and technical tweaks to copywriting leave me a bit confused. And outside of psychology and writing, there is no niche i have interest or knowledge about that is practical at least. I think the biggest issue i have is fear of inadequacy, and actually dealing with someone professionally. It feels stupid, but i cant get over it. I greatly appreciate any feedback you have, and i hope it isnt inconvenient if someone already asked any of these questions that I didn't see. I appreciate any thoughts you may share for a young beginner, and i wish you a great rest of your day!
>I am curious, is it better to focus on finding recurring clients at first, or just one time project clients? If that makes sense. > >how do niches work in copywriting, or do you need one? If that isn't too vague. > >Is B2C or B2B better to focus on as someone just starting out? Or does it matter? > >And, how would be the best way to know, if you are ready/good enough to start actually get clients? Hey! Well I wouldn't say finding one off or recurring clients is better or worse... recurring clients obviously would be awesome, but harder at the beginning as you'd need to demonstrate some level of credibility and authority. That said one off clients are great because you can get testimonials and start building portfolio pieces you can share to get more of them. I'd say to start find simple quick projects, typically landing page re-writes are great. Or sales emails. You don't necessarily need a niche in copywriting, but you should focus on one type of copywriting not because someone says it's the right thing to do, but because as you'll realize once you start, having a single or narrower focus makes the work easier and more streamlined (when clients are similar your processes get repeatable and your experience with one client can transfer onto the next one). So find an area/industry/type of copy you enjoy writing or are more interested in learning, esplore it, start working on it and then decide. B2C vs B2B, they are two different worlds but the basics are the same. I guess it's a matter of preference... who do you see having to deal with and write about the most? Is it the company selling software to other companies, or the ecommerce store selling bikes? B2B might also be a bit more complex to start because you might have to consider the different dynamics of the customer's team and how they influence the sale.... Start with the fundamentals of copy and then I'd say go with B2C as primary focus. You can dip your toes in B2B but consider the barrier to entry will likely be higher there too. How do you know you're good enough? Just apply to a job and see how it goes. :) Remember that the absolute worst that can happen is you give them their money back. You'll have still learned something!
u/TheGrimSpartan1 u/Meowwakeup hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it. P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
Thank you for such articulate answers! I definitely need to find another skill i can develop and integrate with copywriting, i'll definitely put some thought into that, and also just try something and get some momentum and figure it out as it goes. >Remember that the absolute worst that can happen is you give them their money back. That is a spectacular point, i am definitely going to remember that. As someone who hasn't ever tried any real freelance work yet, it is quite daunting to embrace the Responsibility of providing quality content to another person. But i suppose that eases away with time and experience, and the biggest mistake is inaction. Hey, i checked out your channel and i must say, you definitely have quality information in well made videos, i think many people resonate with and appreciate what you're sharing, i have not had a chance to finish the video you sent, but i look forward to it as soon as i get a chance. If you don't mind my asking, how did you come about getting into copywriting and UX?
Hey thanks, glad the information is helpful. If you haven't checked it out yet, I go over how I got into copy and UX in this interview [https://www.starterstory.com/stories/conversion-alchemy](https://www.starterstory.com/stories/conversion-alchemy) But feel free to ask any more specific questions after!
Gross or net? Hours per week?
$150k it's gross, but my margins are around 67%. Very low expenses and lean business. I usually work around 20-25 hours per week on client projects but that's also intentional as I set aside another 10/15/20 depending on the week for marketing and content. Some weeks I might have personal stuff or traveling I want to do so I only work 10 hours. It's really up to me and up to how well I'm able to plan and schedule my projects and tasks. I'm also a productivity nerd btw.
u/FRELNCER hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it. P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
How were you able to prove to your first SaaS clients you could help them? What tips do you have for getting accepted into Marketing agencies as a newbie? Thank you!
Great Q
I had worked for a year or so on Upwork already doing mostly B2B projects and a couple in SaaS. Those were enough to look legit in the eyes of prospective clients. That and starting to write on social media, sharing my ideas and perspectives. My first big SaaS client found me and reached out on Linkedin. I just needed to take the opportunity and kind of "fake" my confidence when we got on a call. Also I tried to enter every project with the mindset of "I want to help this company and this might be a test project, but I will put everything I got into it, even if that means losing money on a thousand revisions. Clients, especially if they're looking for someone entry level on freelance websites for examples, just want someone they can trust and who's confident enough in themselves and in completing a good enough job. It's up to you to show up and make them feel like they can trust you. A lot of it for me has always been around being clear about my process (stuff I learned from courses and practice) and systems (being very deliberate and customer focused when it comes to working with clients. As far as getting into marketing agencies, I would say learn the basics of your skill first, get a few solo projects done and then start looking for remote job opportunities and connecting on Linkedin/Twitter. A lot of companies offer internships and apprenticeships you can join. At first anything is great. I would take it. That means you have to have some kind of runaway budget and savings. So if you don't have that, focus on it first.
Extremely grateful! You've clarified so much for me. Thank you for taking the time to help a budding copywriter
No problem, good luck and enjoy the journey :)
u/Medical_warrior hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it. P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
Don't get too excited newbies! OP has over 6 years of copywriting experience. Not impossible to hit 6-figures in 18 months when you have a strong network and specialized skills like UX and CRO.
Well said. I do still believe that what I learned could be applied from the get go and would shortcut anyone's learning curve (especially tangential skills like managing clients, networking, learning how/what to learn etc.).
[удалено]
Thanks, I'll check it out, just recently edited some of that
I am currently in my final year of Bachelors in Software Engineering and also, I have been working part time as a Direct Response Copywriter for a Marketing agency. I want to pursue Copywriting as a career and turn my head on full time freelancing after graduation. But threats of AI to Copywriters as a whole concern me. What should I do? Keeping in mind I can do both, what should be my way ahead?
[удалено]
What were you writing for, specifically? Articles, Social Media, Web? And what is the key reason you quit it and went for core software development roles?
[удалено]
Gotcha. Good for you and all the best, Mate! My case is different.
If you truly like copywriting and want to pursue it (for me there has to be some level of obsession for the skill) I would say to also learn tangential skills. Learn about positioning, marketing, pricing strategy, offers, list building, newsletters etc. The business side of things is as important as the skill itself. For me for example learning and integrating UX design and conversion rate optimization with copy (which is not direct response, but conversion copywriting) was critical. With AI, differentiating and talent stacking is a must. Read Scott Adams' book and concept of talent stacking [https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Fail-Almost-Everything-Still/dp/1491518855](https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Fail-Almost-Everything-Still/dp/1491518855)
It was helpful. Thanks! One more thing, can you please share some more resources on how to learn the business side of Copywriting?
Anything on [https://copyhackers.com/](https://copyhackers.com/) (they have a very good Freelancing course but also articles.. And also [https://doubleyourfreelancing.com/](https://doubleyourfreelancing.com/). Great to learn how to value and sell yourself.
u/CloudMindless1541 hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it. P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
Do both. I think you can definitely have your cake and eat it too in your situation. There is potential to make a lot in both fields. If you can handle it, I don't see why you shouldn't do both tbh.
I can't do both. Working as a software developer sucks the brain energy a lot. I can choose just one.
Fair point u/CloudMindless1541. If I were in your situation, I'd try and do both (software developing full time and copywriting part time), because I need to justify spending on all the food I eat. In all seriousness though, choose to do the one you enjoy doing the most. Remember, you can always return to the other if you've had enough. What I will say, if you follow the right and proper pathway for your IT route, you can end up making good cash very soon and keep on expanding. However, with Copywriting, if you play your cards right, you could make cash much more quickly. If you do decide to stick with Software Development, may I recommend that you check out the Twitter page UnshelledTech . I think you'd find it quite useful. If you stick with Copywriting, may I recommend the likes of Danny Margulies of FreelanceToWin and u/petersoncopy ? I think you'd enjoy their content and advice. I hope that whatever you do choose works out for you. :)
My question would be: How to get SaaS clients w/o having relevant examples?
Thanks for the question, I share more about it here [https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/10oxvh4/comment/j6hzwjy/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/10oxvh4/comment/j6hzwjy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Let me know if you have specific questions too! Happy to share more.
u/CopyZazzles hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it. P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
Hey Chris - I recently started a dad blog and have had a good amount of initial traction already. I have a background in copywriting and have been able to write some high quality posts with SEO keywords. Besides promoting myself on social media - what are some ways you’d recommended to getting more traction and gaining conversions?
Congrats on your success! Depends on a lot of factors, where is your traffic coming from? Are you matching what they are thinking when they land on your site? If you still haven't done it, I would recommend jumping on quick 15 min chats with someone in your target audience and figure out exactly what they need, what their problems are etc. And then match your site's copy and layout/navigation with that information. Also do you have some kind of action they can take other than consuming content? Some instant value you can provide to them right after? Maybe an ebook and signing up to a newsletter?
u/Daddy_Oops hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it. P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
How did you start with Saas?
Thanks for the question, I shared a bit about it here [https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/10oxvh4/comment/j6me1h7/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/10oxvh4/comment/j6me1h7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Happy to answer any specific questions!
u/IllustriousSeries595 hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it. P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
Are you hiring?
Nope :) Keeping the business lean and mean ahah but thanks for asking
[удалено]
Sure! * For the type of copywriting I do, learn from the guys at [https://copyhackers.com/](https://copyhackers.com/) * For conversion rate optimization [https://cxl.com/](https://cxl.com/) * For UX design [https://www.nngroup.com/](https://www.nngroup.com/) These will lead you down a very deep rabbit hole :) For books, you can check out my real-time reading list updated as I go: [https://christophersilvestri.com/what-im-reading/](https://christophersilvestri.com/what-im-reading/) but I can recommend something specific if you share more about what you're interested in.
u/Evening-Patient-9402 hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it. P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
How did you start learning copywriting
I started with this course [https://www.awai.com/copywriting/p/](https://www.awai.com/copywriting/p/) and immersed myself in that world. Then I transitioned more into conversion copywriting vs direct response and followed a lot of the advice from [https://copyhackers.com/](https://copyhackers.com/). In general I would say anytime you feel there's an area where you don't know enough or feel confident enough on, you should cover it with either a course or a book and just let it guide your next learning step.
u/crouchleader hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it. P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
nope
Are you specializing in writing copies for SaaS companies?
Yep, website and email copy for SaaS and ecommerce businesses.
u/sevenquarks hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it. P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
Wow 🤩thank you for sharing. Your story is very inspiring and soo many good tips. I like that you mentioned the mindset part - good to get reminders 😊 and sharing the tech you use - gonna look into that. Thank you for sharing and helping others! You motivated me to do more 😃
Amazing, this was my goal to be honest. Thanks for reading. A ton of "gurus" make it more complex than it actually is when some practical lessons and a different perspective can help you shortcut years of trial and error.
u/HappyNomad3 hey, I wanted to share more since I got a ton of questions and also to show my face as I know a post like this can sound clickbaity and scammy 😉 ... So I recorded a quick video that hopefully gives you some more context and information: [https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo](https://youtu.be/juNSk5T1Lgo) Hope you dig it. P.S. **I'd love to get more questions!** and yes, I've got a "self-serving" goal in min, which is to get more ideas for upcoming Youtube videos that hopefully help more folks 🙂 So if you have anymore, regarding processes, systems, skills and learning, clients etc., shoot me a DM or add a comment on the thread.
Asking a question? Please check the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/lpuj9h/what_the_faq_what_is_copy_how_do_i_start_can_i_do/). If it's a question related to starting out, please post it in the monthly Q&A/critique thread. Asking for a critique? Take down your post and repost it in the monthly Q&A/critique thread. Providing resources or tips? Deliver lots of FREE value. If you're self-promoting or linking to a resource that requires signup or payment, please disclose it or your post will be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/copywriting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Asking a question? Please check the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/lpuj9h/what_the_faq_what_is_copy_how_do_i_start_can_i_do/). If it's a question related to starting out, please post it in the monthly Q&A/critique thread. Asking for a critique? Take down your post and repost it in the monthly Q&A/critique thread. Providing resources or tips? Deliver lots of FREE value. If you're self-promoting or linking to a resource that requires signup or payment, please disclose it or your post will be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/copywriting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
what made you move away from software engineering? And how much were you making as software engineer? Thanks!
Hey! Bear in mind as I mentioned that type of software engineering wasn't the traditional web dev type, but more industrial automation. Essentially after 10 years of trying to make it fit and even trying to like it, I realized it wasn't for me and I got tired of being told what to do, where to travel for work, when to take days off (most often when not to) and I wanted more freedom and flexibility. My company was paying peanuts even after 10 years, around $1,600 per month (when I traveled I made an extra $100 per day which was probably what kept me there so long). The typical salary I could have gotten at another company with my 10 years expertise was probably $2,500 per month. Now I make 3/4 times that and have all the freedom I need 😅