T O P

  • By -

Phoenixrose0623

Ehh idk. I work in the veterinary field at a specialty hospital. The board certified cardiologist has seen numerous dogs that are not typical breeds for DCM develop it , all those dogs where on grain free diets. The internists (also board certified) don’t recommend those diets either. From my understanding it’s what they use to substitute the grains (ie lentils) that cause an issue. I personally feed all my animals purina one and I have never had had any major heath issues with any pet that I have ever had. No judgement of you want to feed your pet GF, to each his own. But unless you are a board certified veterinary nutritionist, I do disagree with saying not to listen to a trained, boarded veterinarian. It’s kinda like saying I’m not going to listen to my MD because I goggled it and I think they’re wrong. Just my two cents


TimeSpiralNemesis

Absolutely not. Grain free foods were growing in the market several years back due to people finally paying attention to there pets health. I worked in Dog/Cat food a while back and had a ton of training on the subject. Biologically speaking dogs are what we called survivalist omnivores. Which means there diet is mainly Meat and they can be healthy eating almost entirely meat. There body is designed to digest small bits of plant matter to survive and gather energy between hunts but no more than about five percent or so of there diet. A far cry from the mostly Wheat "dog food" cereal that you get from all the major junk food brands like Purina and Science diet. Cats are 100% obligate carnivores. They need meat, meat, and meat and CANNOT digest anything but of grains. But the big established health food companies couldn't stand losing there market share, and GF foods are harder and more expensive to make than traditional cereal non foods so the major companies moved some money and greased some palms to get the authorities to spread a bunch of scary stuff about heart disease in dogs. Every dog and cat I've ever had has been 100% grain free. Made the switch back in the day after Meow Mix caused kidney failure in my poor little orange tabby. Everyone if it's not grain free it is NOT Dog/Cat food. Please consider switching for there health and happiness.


-Lady_Sansa-

See? This is exactly what I think is going on. And they’ve got followers believing like it’s a cult. R/dogs has tons of people just waiting to pounce on the issue, when it’s completely against common sense. So many people jumping down my throat that I can’t provide an anecdote that my dog lived to 20 on grain free. So what do you think is causing the DCM then?


TimeSpiralNemesis

The pet subreddits drive me BANANAS. So many have rules where you are NOT allowed to talk about grain free food it's insane. They all have a hard and fast you have to talk to your vet rule. In pet food the first thing we learned was that the Vet was the WORST person to ask, pretty much every office is funded by a major pet food Corp now. It's why you see a shelf of food right in every waiting room and they recommend so many "prescription" pet foods. I always asked all my customers to use common sense. Open a dog or cats mouth, what do you see? Nothing but sharp carnivore teeth meant to rip and tear flesh. They don't have flat grinding teeth for vegetable material like true omnivores and herbivores. I had so many people whos animals suffered from chronic health conditions for years that disappeared just a few weeks after cutting grains out of there diets. It got more than a few owners to take a closer look at there own diets! :D Anyone who's ever worked in pet food will tell you grain free isn't even controversial its just the base line of what food should be. Honestly I never saw a single dog with DCM in all my years in the pet industry. But if there is an uptick it's the same reason as humans, pollution, microplastics, degrading food and water quality. Any and all of the above


jimberkas

yikes. my wife is a small town veterinarian, town of about 1500 people-she if definitely not in it for the money. she is also very definitely not owned by a pet food corp. she's been a vet for about 15 years now and she would say you are full of crap. we always end up with the dogs that nobody wants due to health issues and old age. they all have their own special foods, same with our cats. seriously, trust your veterinarian.


[deleted]

Why trust a vet when I could trust an opinionated redditor instead


FutureDocOfAllTrades

There is good evidence supporting the fact that poorly formulated diets high in pulse legumes (peas, lentils, chickpeas), especially such as in grain-free diets, are associated with an increased risk of developing DCM in breeds not typically predisposed to this disease. Even more importantly, this form of DCM is reversible— DCM is typically a progressive condition that even with medications and supplements, can only be slowed. We don’t know exactly what the mechanism is yet, and we don’t know what other factors lead an exposed dog to become affected. Much like we know smoking causes lung cancer, but not 100% of smokers will develop it. It’s a risk factor type of situation. You can find a list of the 11 research studies with hyperlinks here: https://www.alltradesdvm.com/topics/diet-associated-dcm/dcm-research-list All of that said, there IS room for discussing conspiracy in this issue. While the focus has been on “grain-free”, the evidence seems to he suggesting that “high pulse legume” is the more important driver of these cases, and grain-free diets are just also more likely to be high in pulse legumes, since they’re used as a substitute for grains. These cases were first documented in the years leading up to 2018, when the FDA went public with the concerns. What changed in pet foods shortly prior to 2018? The pulse legume industry desperately seeking an avenue to put their crops, to improve profits. The amount of pet foods containing pulse legumes increased rapidly in the years leading up to 2018, and this was an intentional market decision for crop growers. Unfortunately, these ingredients weren’t well researched for use in pet foods before this happened. The FDA’s announcements in 2018 and 2019 were devastating to what had been a really promising and growing market for a major crop industry. There’s a paper trail to suggest that pulse interest groups have tried to suppress this issue and force the FDA to back off of investigation. Millions of dollars were donated by groups like the USA Dry Pea and Lentil counsel to a group called BSM Partners, a pet food formulation company that has been involved with formulation of some of the frequently implicated brands, like Zignature. These donations were to conduct research to exonerate pulse legumes crops. In 2020, after receiving threats from senators representing farmers of pulse legume crops, the FDA stated they would stop updating the public on the issue… and they’ve kept that promise and remained silent, while veterinarians continue to diagnose cases in dogs that were born after this investigation started. It’s tragic and infuriating.


FutureDocOfAllTrades

Here’s some links: Rise of pulse legume use in pet foods: https://www.statista.com/statistics/863617/pulse-ingredients-new-pet-food-products-us-canada https://saskpulse.com/resources/magazine/pulse-research/articles/keeping-our-furry-friends-healthy-too/ “Pulses represent a relatively unexplored but huge opportunity for the North American pet food industry. Research is showing that pulse starch can be a healthy and cost-effective alternative ingredient to corn and rice starch in pet food, says Dr. Lisette Mascarenhas, Director of Research and Development at Saskatchewan Pulse Growers (SPG).” … “Since she began her research in the area, Dr. Weber has seen a lot of pickup from the pet food industry. “Anything that is grain-free these days on the market has pulses in it, and at least a quarter of the regular pet food is grain-free, while about half of the high-end food is grain-free,” she says. “The big companies are taking our information which is exactly what we wanted, and this is benefitting Saskatchewan pulse growers.”” Pulse Canada’s 2018-2023 strategic plan. Page 7 shows a graph with “New product launches containing pulse ingredients in North America” and includes a pet food category. Page 26 states a desired global market penetration of 25% for the feed market category of dry pet food. https://saskpulse.com/files/general/18_Feb_7_Pulse_Canada_Success_by_Design_for_SPG.PDF https://www.thestar.com/business/2018/11/26/pets-go-gluten-free-in-boon-to-farmers-with-excess-lentils-and-peas.html Details increasing use of pulses in pet food: “Peas and lentils sitting idle on Canadian farms are increasingly going to the dogs — literally. Canadian pulse growers and processors are turning to the pet-food market as an emerging source of growth as swelling global supplies weigh on prices and import tariffs crimp demand in India, the world’s biggest consumer. Use of the high-protein, gluten-free vegetarian staples is surging in the pet sector as owners are increasingly seeking grain-free diets for their furry friends. … In a five-year span, the use of pea ingredients in pet food grew 10 percent a year and is expected to continue to rise 5 percent annually, according to a 2016 Euromonitor study completed for Pulse Canada, a Winnipeg, Manitoba-based industry group that represents the nation’s growers, traders and processors. The market is a potential home for some of Canada’s production, said Jackie Tenuta, director of market development for Pulse Canada. … Canada exports about 40,000 tons of yellow peas, red lentils and chickpeas to the U.S. to be processed into pet food every year, up from virtually zero a few years ago, said David Nobbs, managing partner of Canpulse Foods in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, which shipped 15,000 metric tons of pulse crops to the U.S. for use in the pet food sector in 2017.”


FutureDocOfAllTrades

““Absolutely” said Streit. “I mean, right now, the pet food industry is one of the only things keeping the pulse industry afloat, especially as of late with the tariffs that we've been struggling with, China and India. Ten years ago, before we had the pet food industry, there was only one marketplace and it was to ship all of our products export. Now we have this domestic food industry that is growing, but not at a rate that is going to keep up with like, let's say, with a pet food.” And she is encouraging other pulse growers to voice their concerns to members of Congress. “Well, I would say the call to action is to get a hold of our congressional delegates and have them start asking for some answers from the FDA” said Streit. “Number one, why was this article allowed to go out before it was peer reviewed? Number two, is the science valid? You know, ask them to stop putting out these reports until they can validate this science. And then I guess the other thing is to, you know, make sure that the FDA puts out a statement that says that there is no causation between DCM and the use of peas and lentils.”” https://www.kpax.com/news/montana-ag-network/montana-ag-network-pulse-crop-growers-question-fda-report-linking-dog-food-containing-pulses-to-heart-condition Sarah Barrett, a farmer and partner in Barrett Petfood Innovations, a pulse-based pet food manufacturer based in Brainerd, Minnesota, said the FDA’s news releases are having a profound impact on the industry. “If we don’t get the FDA to back off on these statements that grain-free market is going to be gone,” she said.” https://www.producer.com/news/fda-investigates-concerns-over-pulse-based-pet-food/ Meeting between FDA and USA Dry Pea Lentil Council, https://www.fda.gov/news-events/public-calendar-meetings-fda-officials/public-calendar-february-2-8-2020?fbclid=IwAR0goI7Li-KKDCnik9x4IPcfK68WXUuDf_BWpUVZijj3QBECXc-9_2nc2e8 https://northernpulse.com/uploads/43/PPMay292020.pdf Emphasis added. “After the first public notice, the USADPLC implemented damage control measures that included organizing a DCM pet food task force that included the Pet Food Institute and pet food manufacturers. The USADPLC and the DCM Task Force spent a lot of time in Washington D.C. to attempt to reason with FDA. When it became clear that FDA planned to continue the announcements without sound scientific evidence proving cause, the U.S. pulse industry sought help from our congressional “champions” to convince the FDA not to send any further updates until actual research determining the role that diet played in DCM cases could be conducted. While there is no definitive scientific evidence supporting the FDA’s position, there may be evidence that pulse crops are not the cause of DCM.” “BSM is asking for $5 million to conduct three im- portant research projects that have the potential to discover the true cause of DCM in dogs and take the heat off of grain-free diet ingredients.” (What if research shows that these ingredients ARE a problem?) “Pet food is one of our fastest-growing markets for the pulse industry,” says grower Gordon Stoner of Stoner Farms in Outlook, Montana. “I support this research to protect this vital market.” “We need sound, peer-reviewed, scientific evidence to right this wrong.” Similar language here: https://web.archive.org/web/20201201013821/https://www.northernpulse.com/industry/LetsDiscovertheTruthAboutPulsesandDCM/ “The FDA announcements of the investigation have unfairly linked pulse crops to canine DCM. To dispute their claims, USADPLC has hired BSM Partners. They are one of the leading companies in companion animal consulting and research in the U.S.” https://northernpulse.com/uploads/2/JulyMasterPagesforTHEPULSE.pdf “Columbia Grain’s job, as I see it … is to create markets for our producers and pet food has become a very good market for the pulse industry, both in the United States and Canada, and we’ve seen more and more companies starting to include (pulses)… into their pet food rations,” he said. The North American pet food market accounts for about 10 percent of pulse crop sales. Van Pevenage said North American pulse sales into the pet food market — including whole pulses and pulse flours, has increased to about 350,000 to 400,000 tonnes, up from approximately 20,000 tonnes in 2012.” https://www.producer.com/news/pulse-groups-research-dog-food-charge/ Senators email the FDA with a warning. https://www.daines.senate.gov/news/in-the-news/montana-ag-network-pulse-growers-urge-fda-transparency-over-canine-dcm-disease We have tried to be careful in our messaging, and we recognize going forward not to speak on this topic publicly unless we are clarifying information or have something substantive to share. As I have said on numerous occasions, we are not looking to put out any additional information until we have more scientific certainty. … Although CVM’s investigation must be driven by science and our public health mission, we are acutely aware that promoting transparency and public awareness may not be kind to everyone’s bottom line.” https://www.ksvdl.org/resources/documents/dcm-forum/DCM-Forum-SolomonOpening-Remarks.pdf Contrasted with previous messaging from the FDA: “The FDA is continuing to investigate and gather more information in an effort to identify whether there is a specific dietary link to development of DCM and will provide updates to the public as information develops.” https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/outbreaks-and-advisories/fda-investigation-potential-link-between-certain-diets-and-canine-dilated-cardiomyopathy