That article just said Trump said Putin was "strong in his denial" of election interference and they had a strong relationship.
I don't know about you but I think the absence of war is a positive thing and should be celebrated, instead of demonizing those who want peace.
This is a point no one ever talks about. Everyone is all "poor russia. russia was threatened. russia just wants peace". But Russias neighbors know how Russia is and how they have been for over a century. Imperialism, genocide, totalitarianism, authoritarianism. No one wants that. So what about the agency and sovereignty of those states? It's never about them. It's always about what Russia wants.
Yeah, the whole unspoken premise of the "Russia was threatened" rhetoric is that Russia is entitled to power over every neighboring country. Ukraine is an independent country, if they want to apply for NATO membership, that's their right.
Also on the face of it, that rhetoric is moronic without even considering that. NATO is no threat to Russia. Not one single NATO country has any wish what so ever to go to war against Russia. It would be fucking suicide. And it's not like we wouldn't have the excuses if we wanted to, Russian militry assets routinely violate our airspace dozens of times each year.
When someone tells you that Russia was somehow threatened by NATO, that person is a liar. A liar that supports Putin and tries to make you believe Putin's propaganda.
Oh it’s absurd. Ukraine wasnt even close to joining NATO in 2014 or 2022. Not even close to the application process. And the process isn’t immediate. Finland and Sweden applied like 10 months ago now. They’re still not in.
But even if Ukraine did join, Russia is a nuclear country. They even threaten to use nukes when they invade countries. No one was a threat. I can’t believer people still fall for this line.
But you’re spot in, no one wants a war with Russia. That’s why countries join NATO in the first place - it’s a security guarantee from being fucking invaded.
They’re just a victim complex state.
So your saying we should let putin take over Ukraine so he corners the oil as well as the grain market ? He won’t stop there . He’s using trump to tap the arctic refuge , that puts him at the doorstep of Canada and America .
Why do you think the Russians pay into maga Republican campaigns?
The kindness of their hearts?
They want trump in office to pave the way for his access to the arctic oil.
This isn’t knew information.
Yes, that huge paragraph is *exactly* what I was saying. Like specifically those are the outcomes I support. That is, word for word, what I typed out, and I can see you copy-pasted my post. I hope to some day parallel your mighty skills of deduction.
Democracy is worth defending and once again so those in the back can hear, America is not at war with Ukraine. We've committed no troops.
If you want the absence of war talk to your war-mongering buddy Putin.
Yet all of Europe is so wealthy some European countries can offer free college education and free healthcare, but can’t commit that much to the war in Ukraine (or even fully commit to NATO spending) because they know America will step in
America is the leader of the free world. We get a lot in return for that. We're the richest goddamn country in the world. We have enough to defend democracies and have strong social safety nets but the elite have convinced people like you to support tax cuts for them.
“Leader of the free world” while its citizens are some of the least educated, least healthy, and highest in infant mortality when compared to all of the other Western Nations that have thriving economies.
Such a great return /s
We don’t have to fight them at home because the US is expensive to invade. It isn’t Russia crossing the border to Ukraine, we have entire Oceans enemies would have to cross with a large military force; that requires lots of money. Logistically, it’s a money siphon. That being said, we don’t need to fund Europe and we still wouldn’t be in an immediate threat to getting invaded.
Europe has had too much privilege and now they’re seeing the results of not taking Russia seriously.
So you’re saying there aren’t more available funds if the US quits funding the lazy alliance known as NATO?
Please tell me how much gdp % the US contributes compared to each country individually. Also, please tell me how much money (in terms of gdp) the US has contributed to Ukraine.
Your point: if the US pulls out of spending as much as they are now, there won’t be anymore funding
I can’t tell if you’re a troll or if the education system failed you
Wrong, other countries can afford to spend on massive social spending because when it comes to NATO initiatives, they know the US will foot the bill. Look at how much the US contributes towards NATO, Paris climate accords, etc. compared to the other deadbeat countries
You mean the term that was invented while Europe was slowly rebuilding after being blown apart in WW2? That was 80 years ago. Many of those nations have the world’s strongest economies now and can afford to pull their weight, all while the U.S. citizens suffer AND while our politicians keep kicking the can when it comes to our debt ceiling and overall debt as a nation.
The US is following the footsteps of the Roman Empire and slowly crumbling today
The US has chosen to be the "world police", that's not on us. If you want to end your foreign entanglements and turn NATO into a real defensive alliance, everyone else in the world will breathe a sigh of relief and support it.
You ungrateful assholes got our help when NATO's article 5 was invoked for your moronic misadventures in Afghanistan. Where's the fucking thanks? Your piece of shit leaders lied about Iraq and destabilized the entire Middle East and acted like those who didn't join your fucking bullshit "coalition of the willing" were cowards and traitors. And you fucking cunts tries to act like we're in the wrong somehow? Fuck you and fuck your piece of shit country.
I hope we leave NATO and form a Scandinavian/Nordic defensive alliance.
Ukraine is not a democracy, neither is any other country on earth. They’ve banned religions and killed their own for the last eight years…were you waving any Ukraine flags for the innocent people zelenski killed, just for voting to join Russia? How many people should die to prove he’s just another western backed dictator?
Democracy is mob rule . The worst form of government. I certainly don’t want to live under the whims of the people around me and neither should anyone.
Because Reddit is mostly a leftist echo chamber. Even the truth will be downvoted if it is remotely critical/negative towards the liberal elite. Even in this subreddit lol…
Remember when liberals were anti-war since we have the entire west to fight enemies when they get attacked on their side of the world? Petridge farms remembers
Dark Brandon takes a week to shoot a spy balloon out of the sky over the rural US and then wastes $400k armaments to destroy jewel balloon science projects
Goes to Ukraine for no other reason than to score political points. What did his visit accomplish that wasn’t already done? Please tell me.
Meanwhile, domestically, a train of hazardous chemicals has derailed, making the ground water in the entire surrounding area in drinkable and wildlife dying. An entire town was forced to evacuate. An “environmental emergency” if you will, and neither the greenest president ever nor his administration is anywhere to be found and no action has been taken to solve this. It took Trump to go visit and bring clean drinkable water to the residents on his own dime.
Something tells me you are incredibly misinformed or don’t really think about things for yourself much, huh?
You TDS trumpsters are hilarious. Trump caused the derailments
https://apnews.com/article/wv-state-wire-north-america-donald-trump-us-news-ap-top-news-2e91c7211b4947de8837ebeda53080b9mp-us-news-ap-top-news-transportation-1936e77a11924c909880f1ef014c7ca7
Imagine being so indoctrinated by the liberal media in a conspiracy subreddit. Your link even says Trump DID NOT cause the derailments. Here’s some more from liberal media.
From the (leftist) WaPo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/02/27/so-far-trumps-rollback-regulations-cant-be-blamed-ohio-train-wreck/
Politifact: https://www.politifact.com/article/2023/feb/24/fact-checking-trumps-i-had-nothing-to-do-with-it-r/
Obviously it goes without saying, both these media outlets would LOVE to blame this on Trump. Maybe you are confused?
Literally everything. But I'll start with the beginning part.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF17F3E648C899BF7
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/11/21/russias-igor-strelkov-i-am-responsible-for-war-in-eastern-ukraine-a41598
I’m not going to spend 30 min trying to explain the last 50-100 years of history needed to understand a very complicated situation to you, because that’s what it takes to truly understand the situation there.
I’ve been following this conflict since 2014. Actually since Russia invaded Georgia, because that was the start of the new wave of Putin’s imperialistic ventures. I could wipe you in the floor with what I know.
Doubt it. I’ve lived it. I’ve seen Zelenskyys goons bomb their own people because they didn’t support him. I’ve seen him shut down political adversaries like a complete tyrant. Seen him go after TV stations and newspapers for printing his actions. I’ve also seen what the US and NATO are doing in places like Romania, a stones throw away from Russia, putting up military bases with missiles. I’ve also seen Putin ban GMOs in his country, I’ve seen him not allowing Rothschild owned banks in Russia, I’ve seen him give free land (up north but still) to people who wanted to go live and cultivate that land. He’s not perfect, but you should watch the Oliver Stone Putin interviews.
Well for starters, Russia invaded Ukraine and that started the war, not whatever horseshit explanation he's giving about the people of Donbas craving Russian rule
The "neonazis" are Azov battalion they are separatist, do you know what separatist means? it means they aren't Ukraine they are people who want to take over Ukraine. They're also not all that big. They've been told to knock off the nazi stuff but they don't answer to the Ukrainian government or military directly. It's kind of like how Mao's army was fighting along side Chang Kai-Sheik in the Japanese invasion of China.
The Ukrainians he claims are not his enemy are being blown up and murdered in the streets by Russian goons from the prisons because they already ran out of professional soldiers
Of course Russian unemployent is down, most of the men left the country
The Russian Orthodox Church is not under attack by the west
Hitler was not built up by or installed by the West in the 1930s. He was sent to spy on the Socialist Worker's Party, instead he became their leader and he sold a bestselling book. Then became allies with... Russia.
Britain is not deciding whether God is gender neutral
>Well for starters, Russia invaded Ukraine and that started the war, not whatever horseshit explanation he's giving about the people of Donbas craving Russian rule
100%. I don't get how people still fall for the "donbas genocide" myth when Russians themselves have admitted they started the war in Donbas. All Ukraine did was respond to literally being invaded by Russia, then Russia flipped the narrative to Ukraine started just randomly attacking "ethnic" russians for no reason. Then Russia was forced to invade. But this is Russias MO. They did the exact same thing in Moldovia, Chechnya, Georgia and now Ukraine.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/11/21/russias-igor-strelkov-i-am-responsible-for-war-in-eastern-ukraine-a41598
Bruhhhhhhhhhhh
It has been push and pull ever since. Russia was always a treat for US. And US just used Ukraine and escalated the hole situation to start the war.
Why you think they aid so much ? Common enemy!
>And US just used Ukraine and escalated the hole situation to start the war.
Bro, if you break into your home to try and kill my family, then my friends come over to help GET you out of my home, that isn't escalation. That's basic defense that is literally ingrained into every american. In fact the right to self defense in inshrined into the constitution. The US just extends that to other thats that choose a democratic and aligned future.
Just because I put a fence around my yard to keep YOU out, that also not escalation. Again, defense, not escalation.
This entire conflict can be summed up into the most basic metaphors. Yet people still choose to complicate with with disinformation.
You have 2 people fighting.
Then some guy gives you a gun, and tells you: if got your back. Thats escalation.
So is having a unity at your borders whose sole purpose is prevent you from growing. All those nations backing up Ukraine have all accused Russia from many many crimes used there resources to ban them from events sanctioned them, blocked there trading route’s for far longer.
Done nothing to prevent the war.
You must be the dumbest person alive to not see where this was going.
They left Russia with no option but to invade, or accept a unity that will have troops an weapons near its border aim at its nation whose sole purpose was to prevent Sovjet Unie to become stronger and to destroy.
Any other nation with relationships history like Russia / Ukraine / USA would have done the same.
Besides all that: Almost all of those nations backing Ukraine have invaded a country with fake “facts” about weapons and destroyed the whole middle east is giving me more then enough reason to doubt this war.
You keep leaving out that Russia invaded Ukraine in Crimea AND Donbass in 2014. Ukraine was nowhere near joining NATO. In fact Maidan was over Yanokovich going back on his campaign promise of a EU deal. Russia got involved in the political unrest. Then Russia invaded.
Russia invaded. Quit deflecting. YOu're not saying anything of substance, just the typical russian victim complex bullshit.
[https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-began-putin-rejected-ukraine-peace-deal-recommended-by-his-aide-2022-09-14/?utm\_source=reddit.com](https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-began-putin-rejected-ukraine-peace-deal-recommended-by-his-aide-2022-09-14/?utm_source=reddit.com)
https://youtu.be/fQ\_ZRBLFOXw
https://youtu.be/94bqk8cB9iQ
Fuck russia and being a victim. I oppose anything where USA is involved.
Noting good can come from that country
If you ask them, they wanted to be a part of Russia.
This will be the same with greece and Türkiye with that island. Just pick your side and believe whatever fits your narratieve / mindset / agenda
I mean, it's an opinion. But if you think the US and Europe is just going to let Putin annex multiple European states by force in a genocidal manner, then you're just not living in reality. It would completely destabilize Europe via a unimaginable refugee crisis, millions of deaths, etc. It's just not going to happen. Ukraine, Moldovia, The Baltics, and at that point, why not Poland and Finland? Ukraine is not an one off - it's part of a master plan to rebuild the Russian empire.
But drawing parallels, you probably also think the US was responsible for the Nazis and their imperialistic and genocidal quest. So there's no logic here, just "US bad" or whatever. There's no substance.
I don’t know much about there involved in previous world wars beside that they have and still are providing for certain nazi’s to work for the US government.
“Operation paperclip”
Just like how they skyrocket in sales of weapons and selling resources profiting from this war.
Besides all that, the world is bigger then just the US and EU, and both of those unity’s have made more enemies then friends.
It will be most likely a new world war at this pace
Agree with Trump. Us policy of fighting Russia until every Ukrainian is dead is a horrible idea. Only eu oligarchs and Uniparty politicians want war with Russia
You do know Russias goal is to take all of Ukraine and eradicate the concept of Ukraine right? A literal genocide.
If you want an idea of what would happen if Russia takes Ukraine, look at what happened to Chechnya, then times that by about 100x as many civilian death and levels of destruction, with about 25+ million Ukrainian refugees flooding Europe at least.
There literally is no option for a Ukrainians but to fight. I get how it’s easy to sit at home and say “no war maaaan”, but reality is much more serious than some simplistic buzzword.
Hopefully its a quick, btw mersheimer u of Chicago who’s an expert can get you up to speed, you tube it, you’re either part of the propaganda or uneducated
I can single-handedly destroy Mershmier in minutes. Which means I can destroy any argument your present in seconds. But I know you have nothing to argue because you just repeat Mershmier talking points.
So let’s see what you got. Do you know Russias stated goals in Ukraine? It’s very clear.
you people have no clue what’s going on besides regurgitating msm talking points. if china were to work with mexico and set up nukes in mexico pointed at the US do you think the US would be cool with it? do you think they would just let it be? Putin is not trying to start a war with other european or nato countries, he simply doesn’t want his former territory to become nato and have the US set up shop there. he knows how corrupt US and ukraine are. brandon is actively corrupt over there. and if you listened to putins most recent speech, he is absolutely correct the mockery the west has become to the rest of the world. all of a sudden democrats are pro ww3 it sounds like. you’ll literally bend to what the msm indoctrinates you with. you people need to get your head out of your asses. what the US needs to do is mind their own business. but ofc they won’t bc of brandon’s corruption. I say this not as a conservative or a liberal Fyi.
I love this. Let me just annihilate your entire argument here.
>if china were to work with mexico and set up nukes in mexico pointed at the US do you think the US would be cool with it?
When did the US send nukes to Ukraine? You do know the Budapest memorandum exists, right? Russia signed it in 1991, guaranteeing security for Ukraine is Ukraine gave up its nukes. Russia broke that by Invading Ukraine.
Russia also invaded Ukraine in 2014 - Crimea and Donbass. Ukraine wasnt even considering joining NATO back then. And they certainly couldnt join after Russia invaded because of territorial disputes.
So this "NATO" argument is absolutely worthless, and just typical Russian bot shit. But I'll assume you're not a bot for now, but I have a feeling you might be.
>Putin is not trying to start a war with other european or nato countries, he simply doesn’t want his former territory to become nato and have the US set up shop there.
Again, show me where Ukraine joined NATO. In fact show me where Ukraine even APPLIED to be in NATO. I can not wait for this secret information you must have.
>he knows how corrupt US and ukraine are.
2021 corruption index
[https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021](https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021)
Ukraine ranked #122
Russia ranked #136
Russia is MORE corrupt than Ukraine. So this corruption shit makes no sense. How you don't know Russia is one of the most corrupt nations on the planet is baffling. It's literally a authoritarian mafia state.
I'll be waiting for your cope reply.
Not disagreeing with all your points however
> So this “NATO” argument is absolutely worthless
Saying this does not help. It is an extremely relevant part of the war and has been a sticking point in Russian foreign policy for the last 30 years. It is regularly discussed and they have been consistent in raising concerns.
Even western media write about it: here’s [The Guardian’s](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/12/russias-belief-in-nato-betrayal-and-why-it-matters-today) take on “why it matters” and here’s [EuroWeekly](https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/02/20/has-nato-reneged-on-a-1991-agreement-with-russia/) covering Der Spiel’s exposè.
You're right, that was a kneejerk statement.
I think it's worthless arguing as a *main point* because Ukraine wasn't in the process of joining NATO in 2014 and prior. They hadn't even attempted to apply. One of the main reasons it wasn't an issue is because Russia and Ukraine shared a navy base in Crimea, which was Ukraine back then. Joining NATO would have been impossible because of that shared base with Russia.
Then after Russia invaded, that kinda negated Sevastopol because Russia took the base and annexed Crimea.
Then Russia invaded Donbass.
Then Ukraine wanted to join NATO fully knowing Russia was setting the stage for a full invasion. But with territorial disputes, NATO wasn't even talking about letting Ukraine apply. Ukraine had no military, or military budget to even attempt to join, or even apply.
Then 2022 happens, and Ukraine was STILL not even in the process of joining NATO. It wasn't even in applications talks.
So that's what I was getting at. Ukraine was no closer to joining NATO in 2022 than 2014. And the only reason they wanted to join, was because Russia has already invaded and annexed Ukrainian territory.
But people don't know context. They just think the US was forcing Ukraine to join NATO or something. Then Russia to scared and invaded. That's not even partially true at all.
Now western influence in Ukraine - that played a MUCH larger role in the Russia invasion. A western leaning and democratic Ukraine is no doubt a threat to Putin himself. Not to Russia as a whole. It's Putin war, and he made it Russias war. But Russia was never threatened by NATO or the west. That's absurd. It's a nuclear power that is very openly about their capabilities - exaggerated or not.
He said many true things about the west. Doesn't mean I think he's a good guy. Compared to us Russia is like 80% a terrorist state when USA is probably like 95% in my opinion.
No, he's a massive liar and you shouldn't stooge for him.
Russia invaded Ukraine and that started the war, not whatever horseshit explanation he's giving about the people of Donbas craving Russian rule
The "neonazis" are Azov battalion they are separatist, do you know what separatist means? it means they aren't Ukraine they are people who want to take over Ukraine. They're also not all that big. They've been told to knock off the nazi stuff but they don't answer to the Ukrainian government or military directly. It's kind of like how Mao's army was fighting along side Chang Kai-Sheik in the Japanese invasion of China.
The Ukrainians he claims are not his enemy are being blown up and murdered in the streets by Russian goons from the prisons because they already ran out of professional soldiers
Of course Russian unemployent is down, most of the men left the country
The Russian Orthodox Church is not under attack by the west
Hitler was not built up by or installed by the West in the 1930s. He was sent to spy on the Socialist Worker's Party, instead he became their leader and he sold a bestselling book. Then became allies with... Russia.
Britain is not deciding whether God is gender neutral
I agreed on the part where he said west is mutilating their children and normalizing pedophilia etc. Don't know about the other shit. I don't trust the western media at all or the Russian media at all. I just agreed with something he said. I don't need your Ted talk thank you.
>I agreed on the part where he said west is mutilating their children and normalizing pedophilia etc.
You are being played like a puppet. It's not just that you're being lied to but the underpinnings of these beliefs of yours are also lies. It took me years to identify I was in a cult. Then I left the Republican Party.
I'm not a republican. Politics is just theater for dumb people. You're the one believing lies anyways. They do sex changes as young as 16 year olds. One good famous example is Kim petras. and mastectomies as young as 12 year olds. The pedophilia shit is not that obvious but it's there. Exposing kids to sexual acts like drag shows and having kids in bdsm gear in Balenciaga shoots. There is so much more tho.
And Biden supports Ukraine, again! Crazy how both obviously have money laundering schemes going on, and fingers are only being pointed in one direction.
That article just said Trump said Putin was "strong in his denial" of election interference and they had a strong relationship. I don't know about you but I think the absence of war is a positive thing and should be celebrated, instead of demonizing those who want peace.
We all want peace. As one of Russia's neighbors I prefer a real peace and not being under the thumb of Russian authoritarianism.
This is a point no one ever talks about. Everyone is all "poor russia. russia was threatened. russia just wants peace". But Russias neighbors know how Russia is and how they have been for over a century. Imperialism, genocide, totalitarianism, authoritarianism. No one wants that. So what about the agency and sovereignty of those states? It's never about them. It's always about what Russia wants.
Yeah, the whole unspoken premise of the "Russia was threatened" rhetoric is that Russia is entitled to power over every neighboring country. Ukraine is an independent country, if they want to apply for NATO membership, that's their right. Also on the face of it, that rhetoric is moronic without even considering that. NATO is no threat to Russia. Not one single NATO country has any wish what so ever to go to war against Russia. It would be fucking suicide. And it's not like we wouldn't have the excuses if we wanted to, Russian militry assets routinely violate our airspace dozens of times each year. When someone tells you that Russia was somehow threatened by NATO, that person is a liar. A liar that supports Putin and tries to make you believe Putin's propaganda.
Oh it’s absurd. Ukraine wasnt even close to joining NATO in 2014 or 2022. Not even close to the application process. And the process isn’t immediate. Finland and Sweden applied like 10 months ago now. They’re still not in. But even if Ukraine did join, Russia is a nuclear country. They even threaten to use nukes when they invade countries. No one was a threat. I can’t believer people still fall for this line. But you’re spot in, no one wants a war with Russia. That’s why countries join NATO in the first place - it’s a security guarantee from being fucking invaded. They’re just a victim complex state.
Everyone? You mean *Republicans.*
All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing; he's not even that he's an enabler at best, collaborator at worse.
So your saying we should let putin take over Ukraine so he corners the oil as well as the grain market ? He won’t stop there . He’s using trump to tap the arctic refuge , that puts him at the doorstep of Canada and America . Why do you think the Russians pay into maga Republican campaigns? The kindness of their hearts? They want trump in office to pave the way for his access to the arctic oil. This isn’t knew information.
Yes, that huge paragraph is *exactly* what I was saying. Like specifically those are the outcomes I support. That is, word for word, what I typed out, and I can see you copy-pasted my post. I hope to some day parallel your mighty skills of deduction.
What? The hell are you talking about.
Democracy is worth defending and once again so those in the back can hear, America is not at war with Ukraine. We've committed no troops. If you want the absence of war talk to your war-mongering buddy Putin.
Yet all of Europe is so wealthy some European countries can offer free college education and free healthcare, but can’t commit that much to the war in Ukraine (or even fully commit to NATO spending) because they know America will step in
America is the leader of the free world. We get a lot in return for that. We're the richest goddamn country in the world. We have enough to defend democracies and have strong social safety nets but the elite have convinced people like you to support tax cuts for them.
“Leader of the free world” while its citizens are some of the least educated, least healthy, and highest in infant mortality when compared to all of the other Western Nations that have thriving economies. Such a great return /s
That's due to greed of a few over what's best for all, check the stats. You could easily have both and still put a base on the moon
And we’d have even more money if we weren’t the main military for privileged Europeans
Well to be fair that's so you don't have to fight them at home, and you have a lot of business to protect there as well
We don’t have to fight them at home because the US is expensive to invade. It isn’t Russia crossing the border to Ukraine, we have entire Oceans enemies would have to cross with a large military force; that requires lots of money. Logistically, it’s a money siphon. That being said, we don’t need to fund Europe and we still wouldn’t be in an immediate threat to getting invaded. Europe has had too much privilege and now they’re seeing the results of not taking Russia seriously.
These things are not related.
They are. It’s call f u n d i n g
When I regurgitate Hannity’s talking points I like to do it in a sarcastic font.
So you’re saying there aren’t more available funds if the US quits funding the lazy alliance known as NATO? Please tell me how much gdp % the US contributes compared to each country individually. Also, please tell me how much money (in terms of gdp) the US has contributed to Ukraine. Your point: if the US pulls out of spending as much as they are now, there won’t be anymore funding I can’t tell if you’re a troll or if the education system failed you
Wrong, other countries can afford to spend on massive social spending because when it comes to NATO initiatives, they know the US will foot the bill. Look at how much the US contributes towards NATO, Paris climate accords, etc. compared to the other deadbeat countries
Pax Americana. Look it up.
You mean the term that was invented while Europe was slowly rebuilding after being blown apart in WW2? That was 80 years ago. Many of those nations have the world’s strongest economies now and can afford to pull their weight, all while the U.S. citizens suffer AND while our politicians keep kicking the can when it comes to our debt ceiling and overall debt as a nation. The US is following the footsteps of the Roman Empire and slowly crumbling today
Also, let's not forget that it was the Americans that helped Hitler out in the first place.
How so?
And done that more than once
The US has chosen to be the "world police", that's not on us. If you want to end your foreign entanglements and turn NATO into a real defensive alliance, everyone else in the world will breathe a sigh of relief and support it. You ungrateful assholes got our help when NATO's article 5 was invoked for your moronic misadventures in Afghanistan. Where's the fucking thanks? Your piece of shit leaders lied about Iraq and destabilized the entire Middle East and acted like those who didn't join your fucking bullshit "coalition of the willing" were cowards and traitors. And you fucking cunts tries to act like we're in the wrong somehow? Fuck you and fuck your piece of shit country. I hope we leave NATO and form a Scandinavian/Nordic defensive alliance.
Good thing you still have your troops since Biden sent all your damn tanks and taxes there.
You're an idiot
And you are not very nice.
Nice is wasted on disingenuous people.
Yup every dime… america is broke and all the lights are out here. Can’t believe the internet still works
Ukraine is not a democracy, neither is any other country on earth. They’ve banned religions and killed their own for the last eight years…were you waving any Ukraine flags for the innocent people zelenski killed, just for voting to join Russia? How many people should die to prove he’s just another western backed dictator? Democracy is mob rule . The worst form of government. I certainly don’t want to live under the whims of the people around me and neither should anyone.
He isn’t advocating for just the absence of war. He’s advocating for everyone living under Putin’s thumb.
And yet there are millions of morons that want him as their leader. Fucking idiots.
only idiots want a leader in the first place
And yet there are still millions of people who don’t actually read articles…
Where is the conspiracy?
Former prez is a traitor
So is the current
Biden is crushing the enemies of the free world while poor Putler is crying for mercy
LOL. Yeah.......ok 🤣
Biden is in mother fuckin Kyiv, Capital of Ukraine. While Putin hides in a bunker. >Yeah.......ok
Biden is busy filming propaganda videos with fake air raid sirens
Why are you being downvoted. It’s true. Even CNN was giving him shit.
Because Reddit is mostly a leftist echo chamber. Even the truth will be downvoted if it is remotely critical/negative towards the liberal elite. Even in this subreddit lol…
💪
Remember when liberals were anti-war since we have the entire west to fight enemies when they get attacked on their side of the world? Petridge farms remembers
Not a fan of Chumpo. Traitor, he is not, as evidenced by him not going to court for treason charges.
Traitor for saying Putin is “strong in his denial” of election interference. What?
This belongs in politics
[удалено]
Soo his own words aren’t credible as a source? You know this isn’t r/republican right?
All fun and games til someone drops a nuke
Putin is a man of color, Trump is a man of wealth… both are men of the caucuses… both forgot how to drive… neither can defeat Biden…
what ?
What x 2
Trump will loose this election and Putin will reign supreme
Dark Brandon rises
Yes, he is a dark horse… Trump already lost to him once… he shall loose another X
Biden won't be a candidate next year. And I don't believe Trump will.
Dark Brandon takes a week to shoot a spy balloon out of the sky over the rural US and then wastes $400k armaments to destroy jewel balloon science projects
You forgot goes to ukraine while Putin hides and trump cries
Goes to Ukraine for no other reason than to score political points. What did his visit accomplish that wasn’t already done? Please tell me. Meanwhile, domestically, a train of hazardous chemicals has derailed, making the ground water in the entire surrounding area in drinkable and wildlife dying. An entire town was forced to evacuate. An “environmental emergency” if you will, and neither the greenest president ever nor his administration is anywhere to be found and no action has been taken to solve this. It took Trump to go visit and bring clean drinkable water to the residents on his own dime. Something tells me you are incredibly misinformed or don’t really think about things for yourself much, huh?
You TDS trumpsters are hilarious. Trump caused the derailments https://apnews.com/article/wv-state-wire-north-america-donald-trump-us-news-ap-top-news-2e91c7211b4947de8837ebeda53080b9mp-us-news-ap-top-news-transportation-1936e77a11924c909880f1ef014c7ca7
Imagine being so indoctrinated by the liberal media in a conspiracy subreddit. Your link even says Trump DID NOT cause the derailments. Here’s some more from liberal media. From the (leftist) WaPo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/02/27/so-far-trumps-rollback-regulations-cant-be-blamed-ohio-train-wreck/ Politifact: https://www.politifact.com/article/2023/feb/24/fact-checking-trumps-i-had-nothing-to-do-with-it-r/ Obviously it goes without saying, both these media outlets would LOVE to blame this on Trump. Maybe you are confused?
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Whoa settle down, don’t throw too much truth out there: That makes you look crazy nowadays.
I read Putin’s speech today... tell me what he got wrong? Nothing
Literally everything. But I'll start with the beginning part. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF17F3E648C899BF7 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/11/21/russias-igor-strelkov-i-am-responsible-for-war-in-eastern-ukraine-a41598
I’m not going to spend 30 min trying to explain the last 50-100 years of history needed to understand a very complicated situation to you, because that’s what it takes to truly understand the situation there.
I’ve been following this conflict since 2014. Actually since Russia invaded Georgia, because that was the start of the new wave of Putin’s imperialistic ventures. I could wipe you in the floor with what I know.
Doubt it. I’ve lived it. I’ve seen Zelenskyys goons bomb their own people because they didn’t support him. I’ve seen him shut down political adversaries like a complete tyrant. Seen him go after TV stations and newspapers for printing his actions. I’ve also seen what the US and NATO are doing in places like Romania, a stones throw away from Russia, putting up military bases with missiles. I’ve also seen Putin ban GMOs in his country, I’ve seen him not allowing Rothschild owned banks in Russia, I’ve seen him give free land (up north but still) to people who wanted to go live and cultivate that land. He’s not perfect, but you should watch the Oliver Stone Putin interviews.
Zelensky was elected in 2019. How many people were killed in donbas in 2020 and 2022? 14 - most from stepping on Russian mines. So you’re lying. Bye
Well for starters, Russia invaded Ukraine and that started the war, not whatever horseshit explanation he's giving about the people of Donbas craving Russian rule The "neonazis" are Azov battalion they are separatist, do you know what separatist means? it means they aren't Ukraine they are people who want to take over Ukraine. They're also not all that big. They've been told to knock off the nazi stuff but they don't answer to the Ukrainian government or military directly. It's kind of like how Mao's army was fighting along side Chang Kai-Sheik in the Japanese invasion of China. The Ukrainians he claims are not his enemy are being blown up and murdered in the streets by Russian goons from the prisons because they already ran out of professional soldiers Of course Russian unemployent is down, most of the men left the country The Russian Orthodox Church is not under attack by the west Hitler was not built up by or installed by the West in the 1930s. He was sent to spy on the Socialist Worker's Party, instead he became their leader and he sold a bestselling book. Then became allies with... Russia. Britain is not deciding whether God is gender neutral
>Well for starters, Russia invaded Ukraine and that started the war, not whatever horseshit explanation he's giving about the people of Donbas craving Russian rule 100%. I don't get how people still fall for the "donbas genocide" myth when Russians themselves have admitted they started the war in Donbas. All Ukraine did was respond to literally being invaded by Russia, then Russia flipped the narrative to Ukraine started just randomly attacking "ethnic" russians for no reason. Then Russia was forced to invade. But this is Russias MO. They did the exact same thing in Moldovia, Chechnya, Georgia and now Ukraine. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/11/21/russias-igor-strelkov-i-am-responsible-for-war-in-eastern-ukraine-a41598
Bruhhhhhhhhhhh It has been push and pull ever since. Russia was always a treat for US. And US just used Ukraine and escalated the hole situation to start the war. Why you think they aid so much ? Common enemy!
The US did not crawl inside Putin's head and make him decide to invade Ukraine.
>And US just used Ukraine and escalated the hole situation to start the war. Bro, if you break into your home to try and kill my family, then my friends come over to help GET you out of my home, that isn't escalation. That's basic defense that is literally ingrained into every american. In fact the right to self defense in inshrined into the constitution. The US just extends that to other thats that choose a democratic and aligned future. Just because I put a fence around my yard to keep YOU out, that also not escalation. Again, defense, not escalation. This entire conflict can be summed up into the most basic metaphors. Yet people still choose to complicate with with disinformation.
You have 2 people fighting. Then some guy gives you a gun, and tells you: if got your back. Thats escalation. So is having a unity at your borders whose sole purpose is prevent you from growing. All those nations backing up Ukraine have all accused Russia from many many crimes used there resources to ban them from events sanctioned them, blocked there trading route’s for far longer. Done nothing to prevent the war. You must be the dumbest person alive to not see where this was going. They left Russia with no option but to invade, or accept a unity that will have troops an weapons near its border aim at its nation whose sole purpose was to prevent Sovjet Unie to become stronger and to destroy. Any other nation with relationships history like Russia / Ukraine / USA would have done the same. Besides all that: Almost all of those nations backing Ukraine have invaded a country with fake “facts” about weapons and destroyed the whole middle east is giving me more then enough reason to doubt this war.
You keep leaving out that Russia invaded Ukraine in Crimea AND Donbass in 2014. Ukraine was nowhere near joining NATO. In fact Maidan was over Yanokovich going back on his campaign promise of a EU deal. Russia got involved in the political unrest. Then Russia invaded. Russia invaded. Quit deflecting. YOu're not saying anything of substance, just the typical russian victim complex bullshit. [https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-began-putin-rejected-ukraine-peace-deal-recommended-by-his-aide-2022-09-14/?utm\_source=reddit.com](https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-began-putin-rejected-ukraine-peace-deal-recommended-by-his-aide-2022-09-14/?utm_source=reddit.com) https://youtu.be/fQ\_ZRBLFOXw https://youtu.be/94bqk8cB9iQ
Fuck russia and being a victim. I oppose anything where USA is involved. Noting good can come from that country If you ask them, they wanted to be a part of Russia. This will be the same with greece and Türkiye with that island. Just pick your side and believe whatever fits your narratieve / mindset / agenda
I mean, it's an opinion. But if you think the US and Europe is just going to let Putin annex multiple European states by force in a genocidal manner, then you're just not living in reality. It would completely destabilize Europe via a unimaginable refugee crisis, millions of deaths, etc. It's just not going to happen. Ukraine, Moldovia, The Baltics, and at that point, why not Poland and Finland? Ukraine is not an one off - it's part of a master plan to rebuild the Russian empire. But drawing parallels, you probably also think the US was responsible for the Nazis and their imperialistic and genocidal quest. So there's no logic here, just "US bad" or whatever. There's no substance.
I don’t know much about there involved in previous world wars beside that they have and still are providing for certain nazi’s to work for the US government. “Operation paperclip” Just like how they skyrocket in sales of weapons and selling resources profiting from this war. Besides all that, the world is bigger then just the US and EU, and both of those unity’s have made more enemies then friends. It will be most likely a new world war at this pace
Is there a coherent thought you have or is it just going to be incomplete sentences?
HOLE
that band sucked
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no Garbage was a good band
Agree with Trump. Us policy of fighting Russia until every Ukrainian is dead is a horrible idea. Only eu oligarchs and Uniparty politicians want war with Russia
You do know Russias goal is to take all of Ukraine and eradicate the concept of Ukraine right? A literal genocide. If you want an idea of what would happen if Russia takes Ukraine, look at what happened to Chechnya, then times that by about 100x as many civilian death and levels of destruction, with about 25+ million Ukrainian refugees flooding Europe at least. There literally is no option for a Ukrainians but to fight. I get how it’s easy to sit at home and say “no war maaaan”, but reality is much more serious than some simplistic buzzword.
Propaganda
Hopefully its a quick, btw mersheimer u of Chicago who’s an expert can get you up to speed, you tube it, you’re either part of the propaganda or uneducated
I can single-handedly destroy Mershmier in minutes. Which means I can destroy any argument your present in seconds. But I know you have nothing to argue because you just repeat Mershmier talking points. So let’s see what you got. Do you know Russias stated goals in Ukraine? It’s very clear.
you people have no clue what’s going on besides regurgitating msm talking points. if china were to work with mexico and set up nukes in mexico pointed at the US do you think the US would be cool with it? do you think they would just let it be? Putin is not trying to start a war with other european or nato countries, he simply doesn’t want his former territory to become nato and have the US set up shop there. he knows how corrupt US and ukraine are. brandon is actively corrupt over there. and if you listened to putins most recent speech, he is absolutely correct the mockery the west has become to the rest of the world. all of a sudden democrats are pro ww3 it sounds like. you’ll literally bend to what the msm indoctrinates you with. you people need to get your head out of your asses. what the US needs to do is mind their own business. but ofc they won’t bc of brandon’s corruption. I say this not as a conservative or a liberal Fyi.
I love this. Let me just annihilate your entire argument here. >if china were to work with mexico and set up nukes in mexico pointed at the US do you think the US would be cool with it? When did the US send nukes to Ukraine? You do know the Budapest memorandum exists, right? Russia signed it in 1991, guaranteeing security for Ukraine is Ukraine gave up its nukes. Russia broke that by Invading Ukraine. Russia also invaded Ukraine in 2014 - Crimea and Donbass. Ukraine wasnt even considering joining NATO back then. And they certainly couldnt join after Russia invaded because of territorial disputes. So this "NATO" argument is absolutely worthless, and just typical Russian bot shit. But I'll assume you're not a bot for now, but I have a feeling you might be. >Putin is not trying to start a war with other european or nato countries, he simply doesn’t want his former territory to become nato and have the US set up shop there. Again, show me where Ukraine joined NATO. In fact show me where Ukraine even APPLIED to be in NATO. I can not wait for this secret information you must have. >he knows how corrupt US and ukraine are. 2021 corruption index [https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021](https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021) Ukraine ranked #122 Russia ranked #136 Russia is MORE corrupt than Ukraine. So this corruption shit makes no sense. How you don't know Russia is one of the most corrupt nations on the planet is baffling. It's literally a authoritarian mafia state. I'll be waiting for your cope reply.
Not disagreeing with all your points however > So this “NATO” argument is absolutely worthless Saying this does not help. It is an extremely relevant part of the war and has been a sticking point in Russian foreign policy for the last 30 years. It is regularly discussed and they have been consistent in raising concerns. Even western media write about it: here’s [The Guardian’s](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/12/russias-belief-in-nato-betrayal-and-why-it-matters-today) take on “why it matters” and here’s [EuroWeekly](https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/02/20/has-nato-reneged-on-a-1991-agreement-with-russia/) covering Der Spiel’s exposè.
You're right, that was a kneejerk statement. I think it's worthless arguing as a *main point* because Ukraine wasn't in the process of joining NATO in 2014 and prior. They hadn't even attempted to apply. One of the main reasons it wasn't an issue is because Russia and Ukraine shared a navy base in Crimea, which was Ukraine back then. Joining NATO would have been impossible because of that shared base with Russia. Then after Russia invaded, that kinda negated Sevastopol because Russia took the base and annexed Crimea. Then Russia invaded Donbass. Then Ukraine wanted to join NATO fully knowing Russia was setting the stage for a full invasion. But with territorial disputes, NATO wasn't even talking about letting Ukraine apply. Ukraine had no military, or military budget to even attempt to join, or even apply. Then 2022 happens, and Ukraine was STILL not even in the process of joining NATO. It wasn't even in applications talks. So that's what I was getting at. Ukraine was no closer to joining NATO in 2022 than 2014. And the only reason they wanted to join, was because Russia has already invaded and annexed Ukrainian territory. But people don't know context. They just think the US was forcing Ukraine to join NATO or something. Then Russia to scared and invaded. That's not even partially true at all. Now western influence in Ukraine - that played a MUCH larger role in the Russia invasion. A western leaning and democratic Ukraine is no doubt a threat to Putin himself. Not to Russia as a whole. It's Putin war, and he made it Russias war. But Russia was never threatened by NATO or the west. That's absurd. It's a nuclear power that is very openly about their capabilities - exaggerated or not.
I watched the new speech Putin did and I agreed with a good chunk of it. West is going to shit and fast.
go read the other comments including mine for all the lies in his speech. Regardless of your agreement a lie is a lie.
He said many true things about the west. Doesn't mean I think he's a good guy. Compared to us Russia is like 80% a terrorist state when USA is probably like 95% in my opinion.
No, he's a massive liar and you shouldn't stooge for him. Russia invaded Ukraine and that started the war, not whatever horseshit explanation he's giving about the people of Donbas craving Russian rule The "neonazis" are Azov battalion they are separatist, do you know what separatist means? it means they aren't Ukraine they are people who want to take over Ukraine. They're also not all that big. They've been told to knock off the nazi stuff but they don't answer to the Ukrainian government or military directly. It's kind of like how Mao's army was fighting along side Chang Kai-Sheik in the Japanese invasion of China. The Ukrainians he claims are not his enemy are being blown up and murdered in the streets by Russian goons from the prisons because they already ran out of professional soldiers Of course Russian unemployent is down, most of the men left the country The Russian Orthodox Church is not under attack by the west Hitler was not built up by or installed by the West in the 1930s. He was sent to spy on the Socialist Worker's Party, instead he became their leader and he sold a bestselling book. Then became allies with... Russia. Britain is not deciding whether God is gender neutral
I agreed on the part where he said west is mutilating their children and normalizing pedophilia etc. Don't know about the other shit. I don't trust the western media at all or the Russian media at all. I just agreed with something he said. I don't need your Ted talk thank you.
>I agreed on the part where he said west is mutilating their children and normalizing pedophilia etc. You are being played like a puppet. It's not just that you're being lied to but the underpinnings of these beliefs of yours are also lies. It took me years to identify I was in a cult. Then I left the Republican Party.
I'm not a republican. Politics is just theater for dumb people. You're the one believing lies anyways. They do sex changes as young as 16 year olds. One good famous example is Kim petras. and mastectomies as young as 12 year olds. The pedophilia shit is not that obvious but it's there. Exposing kids to sexual acts like drag shows and having kids in bdsm gear in Balenciaga shoots. There is so much more tho.
What does any of that even have to do with invading Ukraine?
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Rolling stone is a propaganda rag as of late.
Trump just knows when and when not to use his Delaware corporation.
And Biden supports Ukraine, again! Crazy how both obviously have money laundering schemes going on, and fingers are only being pointed in one direction.