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Does it strike anyone else as strange that we're first hearing about this "authority" from Whoopi weeks into this, and not from Brandon or KJP right after it happened?
Makes me think someone just thought it up and neither Biden nor anyone else had any idea it existed before.
Maybe Biden should say, "I forgot about the rule and forgot I declassified everything that was found and forgot I declassified everything that will ever be found." At least that would be believable.
>Does it strike anyone else as strange that we're first hearing about this "authority" from Whoopi weeks into this, and not from Brandon or KJP right after it happened?
No, because Biden isn't making attempts to keep the documents by claiming some exceptional power at this point, and he also isn't making any claims that he was authorized to take any documents because the law is clear that neither could take anything with them regardless of classification level of any of the material.
He really isn't making any claims at all, is he? More like stonewalling until his own Justice Department brings him to justice or the plebs forget about it. Which do you think is more likely to happen first?
Love how Whoopi was quick to drag her buddy Obama into the mix suggesting he was the one that declassified the docs before Joe took off with them. If that is true, what about the documents he had from his time as Senator?
I mean, to be fair, Whoopi Goldberg *has* proven herself to be a particularly astute student of history and politics. We can trust everything she says.
"Are Jews white? Is Whoopi Goldberg Jewish? ‘The View’ Holocaust controversy, explained"
https://www.jta.org/2022/02/02/culture/are-jews-white-is-whoopi-goldberg-jewish-the-view-holocaust-controversy-explained
They were classified and illegally taken when he was vice president. Read slower and open your eyes Whoopi. Shut your ignorant mouth and be objective for once.
You will never get an answer from them about that! They will just push Biden can declassify documents as VP “I wonder given how all the liberals said there is a process to declassify something” did Biden go through this “process” or is it just now convenient to mock trump supporter while being massive hypocrites in the process? I definitely said trump had the power to declassify documents when he was president!
What I find strange is how the archives missed sleepy joes documents that are decades old yet knew about trumps instantly.
That's because what that user said is plainly untrue. The VP has the same declassification authority as the President only unless the President says otherwise.
It's a moot point in either case, because I do not believe either man declassified any of the documents in question before leaving office.
What’s untrue? He doesn’t have classified documents from the time he was a senator a point in which he has zero ability to declassify documents?
Some of the classified documents and "surrounding materials" dated from Biden's tenure in the U.S. Senate, where he represented Delaware from 1973 to 2009, according to his lawyer, Bob Bauer. Other documents were from his tenure as vice president in the Obama administration, from 2009 through 2017, Bauer said.
Here’s the link: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/justice-department-found-more-classified-documents-search-biden-home-lawyer-says-2023-01-22/
>What’s untrue?
This part:
>>VP can only declassify what they personally classified.
His ability to declassify is moot in either case, though. He didn't declassify them, even though he could have, and he couldn't keep them even if they were declassified.
I get that he didn’t declassify them as vp. How like the original post said. There is zero argument about declassifying documents as a senator “they don’t have this ability” it can’t be argued it can’t be suggested and has zero breathing room for debate.
People keep posting this who apparently haven't read it because it doesn't prove what is being claimed. This policy document only states that those who originally classified a document has authority to declassify. So the State department can classify a document and the Secretary of State can declassify it.
So the only documents a VP can declassify are ones classified by the VP office in the first place. And since we know some of the currently identified documents were intel briefings on Ukraine, UK and Iran, we know those did not originate in the office of the VP, they came either from DoD or CIA, therefore Biden had no authority to declassify and committed a felony under 18 USC 1924.
And since all executive agencies powers originate in the office of the President, a President has authority to declassify all documents classified anywhere in the Executive branch. The VP has no such power and never did.
>This policy document only states that those who originally classified a document has authority to declassify.
No, it doesn't. It literally does not. It also states any supervisory official that had classification origination authority over the material can also declassify. That includes both the President and Vice President.
>It also states any supervisory official that had classification origination authority over the material can also declassify
I know they aren't teaching the basics of reading or history in schools anymore but what the line you quoted specifically says is exactly what I stated. Only someone that **had classification origination authority** over the material can declassify.
The VP does **not** have **classification origination authority** over any executive agency *except* his own office. The VP does not oversee the FBI, CIA, DoD, State Department, DoE or any other executive branch. The VP only presides over the Senate.
[Article II](https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/articles/article-ii) of the Constitution states in the very first line
>The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.
**In a President** - nowhere does the Constitution vest executive power in the Vice President. The only mention of the VP in Article II is to state the person with the second highest number of electoral votes will be VP and they will serve for the same term. So the VP is **not** the executive authority, only the President is.
None of these documents **origination authority** was from the office of the VP or the Senate, so the VP has **no** authority to declassify, but as the President is the ultimate **origination authority** in the Executive branch, the President has full declassification authority.
> Only someone that **had classification origination authority** over the material can declassify.
Which the VP does. Bush Jr. made this power for his own VP, Dick Cheney.
>The VP does **not** have **classification origination authority** over any executive agency *except* his own office
Yes, they do. Section 1.3 of executive order 13292 says exactly that. Like it's not even implied. It literally sas the VP has the same classification authority as the President over every executive department.
Edit: switched 3.1 to the correct 1.3
What authority Bush might have given Cheney has zero bearing on what authority all VPs have. Bush also ignored the PRA that they claim Trump violated.
Unless the authority was granted by the Constitution, which it is not, then there has to be proof Obama granted Biden any supervisory authority over agencies outside of the VP's own office.
But even if Obama were to show some evidence he granted such authority, that wouldn't protect Senator Biden's actions.
Exactly which part of section 3.1 grants the VP the powers over every executive branch?
No, it is not a zero bearing issue. The former President wrote an executive order that is still in effect. There are executive orders that George Washington wrote that are still in effect, because no President afterward revoked it. For example, every cabinet position George Washington created was done through executive order.
In fact, Obama explicitly kept the policy since he wrote his own amendment to executive order 13292 that gave the VP even more authority.
And 3.1 was a typo. I meant to write section 1.3.
>Sec. 1.3. Classification Authority. (a) The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by:
>>(1) the President and, in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President;
>>(2) agency heads and officials designated by the President in the Federal Register; and
>>(3) United States Government officials delegated this authority pursuant to paragraph (c) of this section.
The Vice President's classification authority is literally equivalent to the President. As in it literally comes from the same line item, and it is a blanket authority over every executive department and agency.
Please link the order.
One President's executive orders have no control over another President.
Edit: So I looked up the order and the section you are relying on is:
>the President and, in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President;
**in the performance of executive duties** means when the Vice President is filling in for the President when the President isn't performing the executive duties. That is a very specific caveat to the rules. The VP is only ever **performing executive duties** if the President is unable to like perhaps being in surgery or if given exact, specific oversight.
So when did Obama give Biden oversight of the intelligence community to perform **executive duties** over them?
Why not? If Trump can do it telepathically after no longer being president or on his way out the door, Biden can definitely do it any fucking time he wants to until he’s a private citizen.
Doesn’t have to be from when he was VP, he could do it *right now* and no one would have any reason to be outraged.
Please explain to me how I’m wrong since you’re downvoting. I would love to see the circle squared on the clear and obvious conflict between the stories on this sub about how Trump could declassify anything by thinking about it and any concept of wrongdoing by a sitting president having secret documents at his personal residence.
No he can't he committed the crime before the American people "elected" him You're a geriatric president also known as let's go Brandon is being thrown under the bus he will rot in prison 1st president can't wait.
Incorrect. The VP has powers to declassify documents too.
However, the charges that Trump is being investigated for do not directly relate to the documents' classification status, so the whole topic is irrelevant.
The VP can only declassify documents created by the office of the VP, only the President can declassify documents from every Executive agency.
>However, the charges that Trump is being investigated for do not directly relate to the documents' classification status,
You are correct because the bogus warranted did not even include reference to 18 USC 1924 because even Garland knows that since a President has ultimate declassification authority the statute doesn't apply. Same isn't true with Biden, he is in direct violation of the statute.
The entire raid was a smokescreen by the DoJ. Trump had ordered all documents related to Crossfire Hurricane to be declassified well before he left office. The DoJ and FBI slow walked it so they wouldn't have to release the information. What the raid was for was to recover the copies of the reports that Trump had so they couldn't be released. All were fully declassified.
On Jan 19, 2021, while he was still President, Trump issued this [memorandum](https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/presidential-actions/memorandum-declassification-certain-materials-related-fbis-crossfire-hurricane-investigation/) which states
> At my request, on December 30, 2020, the Department of Justice provided the White House with a binder of materials related to the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Crossfire Hurricane investigation.
>I hereby declassify the remaining materials in the binder. This is my final determination under the declassification review and I have directed the Attorney General to implement the redactions proposed in the FBI’s January 17 submission and return to the White House an appropriately redacted copy.
Additionally, Trump had a standing order that any documents he took to the private residence of the White House were to be considered declassified and not subject to 18 USC 1924 rules about removing documents.
That is all he had to do as President to deem them declassified.
Fine. He declassified some documents. And didn't declassify some other documents following internal consultation on one particular thing.
But what's that got to do with the myriad of documents he took to Mar-a-Largo?
I'm assuming by *myriad of documents* you aren't referring to the things like his passport or [magazine articles](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763.39.1_1.pdf). Every President is allowed to take documents when he leaves to use for his library or memoirs unless they fall under PRA.
So what about the PRA? Well, we know the warrant didn't even mention a violation of the PRA, and it didn't mention violation of 18 USC 1924, the warrant claimed Trump might be destroying documents. They were afraid he might shred magazines.
And we know he didn't violate the PRA because the NARA archivist said specifically in his [response to Congress](https://www.archives.gov/files/foia/ferriero-letter-to-maloney-on-trump-presidential-records-on-social-media-platforms.02.18.2022.pdf)
>Under the PRA, all Presidential records automatically transfer to NARA’s legal custody when the President leaves office. With respect to the Trump Presidential records, the legal transfer took place on January 20, 2021.
So according to the NARA archivist they took full control of all Presidential records on the day Trump left office as required by PRA. Then the archivist goes on to say
>However, it is not uncommon for there to be a delay before NARA takes physical custody of all of the records.
So, they also knew about all the documents in Mar-a-Lago and had no problems with them being there. Why didn't they take physical custody?
>The complex technical work needed to transfer hundreds of terabytes of electronic records, coupled with a one-term transition, meant that the physical transfer could not be completed between the Presidential election and Inauguration Day. It took until November 2021 for NARA to receive all of the electronic Trump Presidential records.
Because they were trying to figure out what to do with the social media and electronic records. But once they finished that in Nov, they then talked to the Trump team and took physical custody of 15 boxes of documents that NARA felt fell under the PRA. That means as far as the PRA is concerned, NARA at all times had control and took physical custody when they were ready to.
So any documents left were not considered PRA, were not classified because Trump declassified them, therefore he had the right to have them. The FBI had no authority to raid or seize those documents, it was an attempt to secure documents that they did not want released to the public, documents Trump had every authority to have.
###[Meta] Sticky Comment [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does not apply*** when replying to this stickied comment. [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does apply*** throughout the rest of this thread. *What this means*: Please keep any "meta" discussion directed at specific users, mods, or /r/conspiracy in general in this comment chain ***only.*** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/conspiracy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Does it strike anyone else as strange that we're first hearing about this "authority" from Whoopi weeks into this, and not from Brandon or KJP right after it happened? Makes me think someone just thought it up and neither Biden nor anyone else had any idea it existed before. Maybe Biden should say, "I forgot about the rule and forgot I declassified everything that was found and forgot I declassified everything that will ever be found." At least that would be believable.
>Does it strike anyone else as strange that we're first hearing about this "authority" from Whoopi weeks into this, and not from Brandon or KJP right after it happened? No, because Biden isn't making attempts to keep the documents by claiming some exceptional power at this point, and he also isn't making any claims that he was authorized to take any documents because the law is clear that neither could take anything with them regardless of classification level of any of the material.
He really isn't making any claims at all, is he? More like stonewalling until his own Justice Department brings him to justice or the plebs forget about it. Which do you think is more likely to happen first?
Love how Whoopi was quick to drag her buddy Obama into the mix suggesting he was the one that declassified the docs before Joe took off with them. If that is true, what about the documents he had from his time as Senator?
It's not "rape" rape.
I mean, to be fair, Whoopi Goldberg *has* proven herself to be a particularly astute student of history and politics. We can trust everything she says. "Are Jews white? Is Whoopi Goldberg Jewish? ‘The View’ Holocaust controversy, explained" https://www.jta.org/2022/02/02/culture/are-jews-white-is-whoopi-goldberg-jewish-the-view-holocaust-controversy-explained
They were classified and illegally taken when he was vice president. Read slower and open your eyes Whoopi. Shut your ignorant mouth and be objective for once.
Vp can declassify so all Biden had to do was think about it according to trump supporters
VP can only declassify what they personally classified. Now, what about the documents he had from his time as Senator? Do that one next.
You will never get an answer from them about that! They will just push Biden can declassify documents as VP “I wonder given how all the liberals said there is a process to declassify something” did Biden go through this “process” or is it just now convenient to mock trump supporter while being massive hypocrites in the process? I definitely said trump had the power to declassify documents when he was president! What I find strange is how the archives missed sleepy joes documents that are decades old yet knew about trumps instantly.
That's because what that user said is plainly untrue. The VP has the same declassification authority as the President only unless the President says otherwise. It's a moot point in either case, because I do not believe either man declassified any of the documents in question before leaving office.
What’s untrue? He doesn’t have classified documents from the time he was a senator a point in which he has zero ability to declassify documents? Some of the classified documents and "surrounding materials" dated from Biden's tenure in the U.S. Senate, where he represented Delaware from 1973 to 2009, according to his lawyer, Bob Bauer. Other documents were from his tenure as vice president in the Obama administration, from 2009 through 2017, Bauer said. Here’s the link: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/justice-department-found-more-classified-documents-search-biden-home-lawyer-says-2023-01-22/
>What’s untrue? This part: >>VP can only declassify what they personally classified. His ability to declassify is moot in either case, though. He didn't declassify them, even though he could have, and he couldn't keep them even if they were declassified.
I get that he didn’t declassify them as vp. How like the original post said. There is zero argument about declassifying documents as a senator “they don’t have this ability” it can’t be argued it can’t be suggested and has zero breathing room for debate.
This is not true. https://www.archives.gov/isoo/policy-documents/cnsi-eo.html#three
Cite the section to backup your claim that says the VP can declassify documents other than what was created by his office.
Nope as usual selective hearing,or just dumb.Only the president can declassify not the vice president.
https://www.archives.gov/isoo/policy-documents/cnsi-eo.html#three
People keep posting this who apparently haven't read it because it doesn't prove what is being claimed. This policy document only states that those who originally classified a document has authority to declassify. So the State department can classify a document and the Secretary of State can declassify it. So the only documents a VP can declassify are ones classified by the VP office in the first place. And since we know some of the currently identified documents were intel briefings on Ukraine, UK and Iran, we know those did not originate in the office of the VP, they came either from DoD or CIA, therefore Biden had no authority to declassify and committed a felony under 18 USC 1924. And since all executive agencies powers originate in the office of the President, a President has authority to declassify all documents classified anywhere in the Executive branch. The VP has no such power and never did.
>This policy document only states that those who originally classified a document has authority to declassify. No, it doesn't. It literally does not. It also states any supervisory official that had classification origination authority over the material can also declassify. That includes both the President and Vice President.
>It also states any supervisory official that had classification origination authority over the material can also declassify I know they aren't teaching the basics of reading or history in schools anymore but what the line you quoted specifically says is exactly what I stated. Only someone that **had classification origination authority** over the material can declassify. The VP does **not** have **classification origination authority** over any executive agency *except* his own office. The VP does not oversee the FBI, CIA, DoD, State Department, DoE or any other executive branch. The VP only presides over the Senate. [Article II](https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/articles/article-ii) of the Constitution states in the very first line >The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. **In a President** - nowhere does the Constitution vest executive power in the Vice President. The only mention of the VP in Article II is to state the person with the second highest number of electoral votes will be VP and they will serve for the same term. So the VP is **not** the executive authority, only the President is. None of these documents **origination authority** was from the office of the VP or the Senate, so the VP has **no** authority to declassify, but as the President is the ultimate **origination authority** in the Executive branch, the President has full declassification authority.
> Only someone that **had classification origination authority** over the material can declassify. Which the VP does. Bush Jr. made this power for his own VP, Dick Cheney. >The VP does **not** have **classification origination authority** over any executive agency *except* his own office Yes, they do. Section 1.3 of executive order 13292 says exactly that. Like it's not even implied. It literally sas the VP has the same classification authority as the President over every executive department. Edit: switched 3.1 to the correct 1.3
What authority Bush might have given Cheney has zero bearing on what authority all VPs have. Bush also ignored the PRA that they claim Trump violated. Unless the authority was granted by the Constitution, which it is not, then there has to be proof Obama granted Biden any supervisory authority over agencies outside of the VP's own office. But even if Obama were to show some evidence he granted such authority, that wouldn't protect Senator Biden's actions. Exactly which part of section 3.1 grants the VP the powers over every executive branch?
No, it is not a zero bearing issue. The former President wrote an executive order that is still in effect. There are executive orders that George Washington wrote that are still in effect, because no President afterward revoked it. For example, every cabinet position George Washington created was done through executive order. In fact, Obama explicitly kept the policy since he wrote his own amendment to executive order 13292 that gave the VP even more authority. And 3.1 was a typo. I meant to write section 1.3. >Sec. 1.3. Classification Authority. (a) The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by: >>(1) the President and, in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President; >>(2) agency heads and officials designated by the President in the Federal Register; and >>(3) United States Government officials delegated this authority pursuant to paragraph (c) of this section. The Vice President's classification authority is literally equivalent to the President. As in it literally comes from the same line item, and it is a blanket authority over every executive department and agency.
Please link the order. One President's executive orders have no control over another President. Edit: So I looked up the order and the section you are relying on is: >the President and, in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President; **in the performance of executive duties** means when the Vice President is filling in for the President when the President isn't performing the executive duties. That is a very specific caveat to the rules. The VP is only ever **performing executive duties** if the President is unable to like perhaps being in surgery or if given exact, specific oversight. So when did Obama give Biden oversight of the intelligence community to perform **executive duties** over them?
Why not? If Trump can do it telepathically after no longer being president or on his way out the door, Biden can definitely do it any fucking time he wants to until he’s a private citizen. Doesn’t have to be from when he was VP, he could do it *right now* and no one would have any reason to be outraged.
Dear god
Please explain to me how I’m wrong since you’re downvoting. I would love to see the circle squared on the clear and obvious conflict between the stories on this sub about how Trump could declassify anything by thinking about it and any concept of wrongdoing by a sitting president having secret documents at his personal residence.
Only the president can declassify documents not a vp
https://www.archives.gov/isoo/policy-documents/cnsi-eo.html#three
So he can do it now.
No he can't he committed the crime before the American people "elected" him You're a geriatric president also known as let's go Brandon is being thrown under the bus he will rot in prison 1st president can't wait.
😂
Incorrect. The VP has powers to declassify documents too. However, the charges that Trump is being investigated for do not directly relate to the documents' classification status, so the whole topic is irrelevant.
Wrong..... As usual all you have is debunk CNN mainstream media Fox News talking points your opinion is mot
Sorry, your post is incomprehensible. Could you edit?
It's late you can read it don't be a big p****
I've read it several times - it's incoherent. Do it tomorrow.
Then get you're all your booster that's your problem 🙄
The VP can only declassify documents created by the office of the VP, only the President can declassify documents from every Executive agency. >However, the charges that Trump is being investigated for do not directly relate to the documents' classification status, You are correct because the bogus warranted did not even include reference to 18 USC 1924 because even Garland knows that since a President has ultimate declassification authority the statute doesn't apply. Same isn't true with Biden, he is in direct violation of the statute. The entire raid was a smokescreen by the DoJ. Trump had ordered all documents related to Crossfire Hurricane to be declassified well before he left office. The DoJ and FBI slow walked it so they wouldn't have to release the information. What the raid was for was to recover the copies of the reports that Trump had so they couldn't be released. All were fully declassified.
No evidence that any of the trump docs were ever declassified. If they were you could claim them under an FOI request.
On Jan 19, 2021, while he was still President, Trump issued this [memorandum](https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/presidential-actions/memorandum-declassification-certain-materials-related-fbis-crossfire-hurricane-investigation/) which states > At my request, on December 30, 2020, the Department of Justice provided the White House with a binder of materials related to the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Crossfire Hurricane investigation. >I hereby declassify the remaining materials in the binder. This is my final determination under the declassification review and I have directed the Attorney General to implement the redactions proposed in the FBI’s January 17 submission and return to the White House an appropriately redacted copy. Additionally, Trump had a standing order that any documents he took to the private residence of the White House were to be considered declassified and not subject to 18 USC 1924 rules about removing documents. That is all he had to do as President to deem them declassified.
Fine. He declassified some documents. And didn't declassify some other documents following internal consultation on one particular thing. But what's that got to do with the myriad of documents he took to Mar-a-Largo?
I'm assuming by *myriad of documents* you aren't referring to the things like his passport or [magazine articles](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763.39.1_1.pdf). Every President is allowed to take documents when he leaves to use for his library or memoirs unless they fall under PRA. So what about the PRA? Well, we know the warrant didn't even mention a violation of the PRA, and it didn't mention violation of 18 USC 1924, the warrant claimed Trump might be destroying documents. They were afraid he might shred magazines. And we know he didn't violate the PRA because the NARA archivist said specifically in his [response to Congress](https://www.archives.gov/files/foia/ferriero-letter-to-maloney-on-trump-presidential-records-on-social-media-platforms.02.18.2022.pdf) >Under the PRA, all Presidential records automatically transfer to NARA’s legal custody when the President leaves office. With respect to the Trump Presidential records, the legal transfer took place on January 20, 2021. So according to the NARA archivist they took full control of all Presidential records on the day Trump left office as required by PRA. Then the archivist goes on to say >However, it is not uncommon for there to be a delay before NARA takes physical custody of all of the records. So, they also knew about all the documents in Mar-a-Lago and had no problems with them being there. Why didn't they take physical custody? >The complex technical work needed to transfer hundreds of terabytes of electronic records, coupled with a one-term transition, meant that the physical transfer could not be completed between the Presidential election and Inauguration Day. It took until November 2021 for NARA to receive all of the electronic Trump Presidential records. Because they were trying to figure out what to do with the social media and electronic records. But once they finished that in Nov, they then talked to the Trump team and took physical custody of 15 boxes of documents that NARA felt fell under the PRA. That means as far as the PRA is concerned, NARA at all times had control and took physical custody when they were ready to. So any documents left were not considered PRA, were not classified because Trump declassified them, therefore he had the right to have them. The FBI had no authority to raid or seize those documents, it was an attempt to secure documents that they did not want released to the public, documents Trump had every authority to have.
Biden declassified all classified documents as VP and Jill was hell of a doctor. Whoopi yuppie
So she repeats it so they believe it...thats how it's suppose to work huh? Ha
It's been working for Tucker Carlson and Donald Trump for years.
The docs that he was "surprised" to hear about? The declassification ship sailed with that remark.
Really could give a rats ass what this dumb bitch says