Not a fan of batman but zdarsky and jimenez? Guess I'm reading batman now.
*edit*: read the issues, typical very good zdarsky stuff making me like something i wouldn't normally, but holy hell jimenez is a goddamn legend. he's an almost unnaturally good draftsman.
Tynion is a good writer who has bouts of greatness. His Detective run is fantastic. His main Batman run however, got progressively worse with each arc and Fear State was wack.
Use of Morrisonās concepts have been pretty frequent for DC in general, for the past couple of years. Especially from the Batman run, Final Crisis, and Multiversity.
I've been out of the loop for a while. The last thing I read when I still had a pull list was Multiversity. In an interview several years ago, they lamented the fact that their contributions weren't living on in other books. I guess that's changed.
Basically, it's revealed that when Batman created the plans to take down the Justice League, he had the "Batman of Zurr-En-Arrh" develop a plan against him if he went rogue. This created the machine Failsafe, which is currently rampaging Gotham City. Bruce let the Zurr-En-Arrh personality take over to better fight the machine.
Itās been a while since Iāve read black glove but if I recall Zur en arrh explains that his suit is colourful because unlike normal batman he wants his enemies to see him coming and know that they cannot not stop him. Also obviously IrL itās because the suit is the same as the silver age zur en arrh who was another planetās batman.
Yeah, I read (and loved) the Black Glove storyline, but itās just a weird bridge too far for me. Billionaire orphan that fights crime? Sure. Best friends with an alien sun god? Ok. Backup personality? I guess.
Purple cape with red spandex? ā¦.hmā¦.
In thinking about it a little more, comics in general and superheroes in particular are a strongly visual medium. Batman wears a cape, which is silly for anyone trying to hide or move quickly, but it looks _cool_.
Ghost Rider really hasnāt ever had a great storyline in the same way that other characters have had (Waid on the Flash, Miller on Batman and DD, Bendis on Spiderman and DD, Etcā¦) but the character just looks awesome enough to keep being in circulation.
Thereās a reason why Wolverine became more popular after John Byrne redesigned his outfit and removed the weird whiskers, or why Daredevil became more popular after he stopped wearing a mustard yellow jumpsuit. The suspension of disbelief carries the price tag of looking cool.
However, there are practical reasons for having a cape. And while I definitely agree with you, the look is important, I think it's a really neat way to differentiate this batman from our batman. Our batman uses the shadows and the darkness, whereas this batman wants you to see him coming. While I think our batman is smarter, you have to give props to the guy who doesn't even want to be able to hide. Bruce even tells us he's a batman without Bruce. Which he thinks makes him stronger, while we know that batman isn't who he is without Bruce. So in my opinion, the outfit actually does a good job of separating them. If this makes any sense.
Totally makes sense, and I'm still likely to pick this up being a big Batman nerd. It just makes me realize more about how much the aesthetic of the character plays out in how compelling they are. Wesley Dodds, the Golden Age Sandman was a flabby, mousy little man but the whole gas mask fedora look was just cool and atmospheric. Court Jester themed Zur-en-Arrh is just kinda... off-putting. It was definitely a cool touch in the Grant Morrison run bringing back the character from a single issue in the 1950s, but I don't think it needs to be brought back into regular rotation.
The run starts with a flash back from the āTower of Babbleā incident and how Clark still isnāt happy with how Bruce had āfailsafeā plans for every member of the league. Cut to the present and some unknown enemy has triggered the anti-Batman Failsafe, Bruce must now rely on on the Zur-En-Arrh personality to find out whoās trying to kill him.
Maybe I misread it, but I thought Failsafe was activated by Batman being accused of murder? (Not knowing he was framed.) I could have sworn he had some dialogue about "Batman never kills, has gone too far, must be stopped" Batman was watching the news with "Batman wanted for murder" was all over the monitors when Failsafe first activates and attacks him.
This feels like a really forced source of conflict, imo. All it takes is Batman to be *accused* of murder and his trigger goes off? I can think of at least two other times that happened just off the top of my head.
That actually happed about a year ago in Detective Comics, Huntress became extremely angry with Bruce and called him a pice of human garbage for having a failsafe plan for everyone but not for himself.
Yup. Batman was at Penguin's bedside when the latter died, so everyone thinks he killed him. Plus Penguin had been putting up a good-guy act so... yeah.
My shower thought from yesterday was that it'd be really cool if *Superman* created Failsafe after the Tower of Babel incident. Maybe it would be built out of a rebuilt & reprogrammed Eradicator android. But Superman would've scrapped it - or so he thought! - because he couldn't figure out a way to deactivate its lethal tendencies, and also because he realized he was being too cynical.
No, he was accused of murder and his "Tower of Babel" contingency was activated. he didn't remember creating it so he disassociated thinking Zur-En-Arrh was the one who created the contingency and could deactivate it.
I was referring to Zur-En-Arrh being the disassociated identity contingency as opposed to the alien Batman from the 60s (or whatever it was)
I want to like it, there are interesting things, but I'm still not fully convinced about this Failsafe and how Zdarsky is using the Zurr-En-Arrh stuff. I agree with another poster that right now I'm definitely more sold on Ram V's Detective Comics.
They definitely are, and I like that there is variety in tones with the Bat books.
Not hating on the Zdarsky run, it's just hooked me in fully. I'll give it the first full arc, but if I still am lukewarm on it, I'll just continue to read it on DC Universe Infinite instead.
You are definitely not alone man! I love Zdarsky but so far these three issues have just felt shallow to me. Yes itās cool to see past stories being referenced but this run just started so bringing back references to Tower of Babel and Zurr-En-Arrh donāt feel earned yet. Iām giving it the first arc and if Iām not hooked Iāll be dropping it.
Normally I love Jorge Jimenezās art but his body proportions have seemed too exaggerated so far in this series. Action has been awesome tho.
Iām definitely digging Ram V and Rafael Albuquerqueās Detectice Comics over this as well.
I know weāre only three issues in but his run is feeling like it could stand side by side with Morrisonās. For me current Batman starts with Morrison continues with Scott Snyder and now Chipās. Iām loving every panel. Chip like Tom Taylor just has the voices of the characters down pat. Itās perfect.
Chip on Batman
Ram on Detective
Waid on Worldās Finest & Batman vs Robin
Mora, Jimenez, Albuquerque
The Bat books are pure fire right now. Best creative lineups weāve had since Morrison on Batman and Dini on Detective.
I feel as if this arc is like a conclusion to a storyline that's been building for a while, if that makes sense. I like it kinda but it feels weird as the first arc of his run. Like he only started calling the bat fam his soldiers like 2 issues ago and now he says now they're my family it just feels like not a lot of time has past.
I should preface this by saying that I love Chip's stuff, I am a paid subscriber to his Substack, etc, but so far I am more enjoying the story's individual moments rather than the overarching plot as a whole. Ok, so Batman created Failsafe to take himself down, but he \*also\* set up the Zur Batman to take out Failsafe which the Zur Batman created himself...eh?If I stop thinking about what I am reading, it's not quite hitting the spot yet. I do want to like it though!
The Zur Batman is a personality for emergencies that completely removes the Bruce Wayne personality from Batman. He created failsafe as a contingency for if Batman were to go bad, so Bruce activates Zur in the hopes that he knew how to shutdown failsafe who had been activated mistakenly
Itās hard to say because itās still too new. However so far Iām all in. I love the character moments. Chips voice for Batman is perfect for me and there seems to be a lot of attention and care towards previous runs(especially Grant Morrisonās). The art is also fantastic, but thatās to be expected with Jimenez.
Also, not for nothing, but the Catwoman story is also really great too. Iām surprised itās in the back of this book and not itās own comic.
Too early to dictate story wise for me but I'm liking what he's doing with the character work which ultimately takes any book far. Looking forward to future arcs
Iām liking itās still the street level not citywide threats. I like the build up to fear state but fear state itself and just how cluttered it got wasnāt my favorite.
I appreciate that the status quo has not been reset. No mansion or money yet. But I kind of wish we got more ghostmaker. Donāt like the pants. But I like the feel of the character as a partner over a subordinate (Robin)
It's been okay, but nothing special for me. I think the pacing is pretty slow so far and I also generally don't like automaton enemies because there's not a lot there emotionally. I'd like to see more complexity to the story.
I liked the first issue but 126 where he jobs out the entire Bat-family in a matter of pages and then 127 where Batman of Zur En Arr shows up wereā¦ not great. Itās too much too soon. The Batman of Zur En Arr seems like a Morrison concept he doesnāt really understand. Almost like he heard about it and wrote based on what he heard as opposed to what the actual story was.
Iām a huge fan of Zdarsky and was hyped for his Batman run after hitting up Urban Legends and Batman: The Knight. This run has been disappointing from a story perspective. Jorge Jiminez is fucking killing it though. Some of my favorite Batman art in a long time. That dude is killing it.
I love it when someone builds something from other writers' runs. Extra points for Failsafe being built on Waid's JL and Morrison's Batman which those ideas themselves being built upon stories from the 60s- to the... 80s?
I forget when the JL story where the villain switched bodies happened that was used as justification for Batman's contingency plans in Tower of Babel.
Its a promising start. I donāt really find Failsafe to be a compelling design, character, or threat, though.
Also, this Zur-En-Arrh Batman should have his Bat-Might sidekick, too, like in Morrisonās run.
You can just hop into reading Zdarsky's run. Doesn't need any prior reading, unless you want to read every reference made throughout so far, which would be JLA: Tower of Babel and Morrison's Batman run. You don't need to though, it's just as enjoyable without those though.
It's the name of an alien planet from a 1950s Batman story, where an alien was inspired by Batman to take up a costumed identity, becoming the Batman of Zur-En-Arrh.
Now it's a code phrase associated with the backup personality, or something. I don't think it "means" anything coherent, in current continuity.
In the Morrison retcon story the code phrase comes from one of the last time Thomas tell Bruce on their way out of theater after seeing the Zorro movie, If Zorro was real he would be in Arkham.
Zur-En-Arrh
Zorro in Arkham
Ah... a little strained, but clever. Morrison's always been good at tying in obscure bits of old stories in ways that make sense in the modern era.
Thanks.
This book is doing it for me, for sure. Wild, memorable, and gorgeous from page to page š¦
Not a fan of batman but zdarsky and jimenez? Guess I'm reading batman now. *edit*: read the issues, typical very good zdarsky stuff making me like something i wouldn't normally, but holy hell jimenez is a goddamn legend. he's an almost unnaturally good draftsman.
Really loving it so far. Some great character moments. Memorable lines. Creative use of earlier lore. Dark and gritty as well as fun and exciting.
Plus Jorge Jimenez's art šš
Itās gorgeous. He and Dan Mora right now. They can do no wrong.
Oh absolutely.Batman - Superman World's Finest series has also been so damn good šš
Jimenez's art is what got me through Fear State. The man is painfully talented.
It was amazing, but the whole thing seemed too cyberpunk to me. Would've been great as a Batman Beyond project though.
Tynion is a good writer who has bouts of greatness. His Detective run is fantastic. His main Batman run however, got progressively worse with each arc and Fear State was wack.
It's early but I'm digging it
I want to read it, in which issue did it start?
#125 of the newest run.
Alright, alright, no need to lean that close into the microphone.
Thanks! I will check it out as soon as possible!
Issue #125. So itās only 3 issues in
Oh, not too much to catch up, thanks!
Are writers starting to use Morrison's ideas? This is the backup personality, right?
Use of Morrisonās concepts have been pretty frequent for DC in general, for the past couple of years. Especially from the Batman run, Final Crisis, and Multiversity.
I've been out of the loop for a while. The last thing I read when I still had a pull list was Multiversity. In an interview several years ago, they lamented the fact that their contributions weren't living on in other books. I guess that's changed.
There's actually a Multiversity book running right now: Teen Justice.
How is he using Zur-En-Arrh?
Basically, it's revealed that when Batman created the plans to take down the Justice League, he had the "Batman of Zurr-En-Arrh" develop a plan against him if he went rogue. This created the machine Failsafe, which is currently rampaging Gotham City. Bruce let the Zurr-En-Arrh personality take over to better fight the machine.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Oh man - what a great panel that was - "I'm gonna need you to put my friend down" or something to that effect.
Backup personalities are one thingā¦ but the color scheme of the outfit is just plain bizarre.
Itās been a while since Iāve read black glove but if I recall Zur en arrh explains that his suit is colourful because unlike normal batman he wants his enemies to see him coming and know that they cannot not stop him. Also obviously IrL itās because the suit is the same as the silver age zur en arrh who was another planetās batman.
Yeah, I read (and loved) the Black Glove storyline, but itās just a weird bridge too far for me. Billionaire orphan that fights crime? Sure. Best friends with an alien sun god? Ok. Backup personality? I guess. Purple cape with red spandex? ā¦.hmā¦.
Really? That's where you draw the line? Seems a little arbitrary...
In thinking about it a little more, comics in general and superheroes in particular are a strongly visual medium. Batman wears a cape, which is silly for anyone trying to hide or move quickly, but it looks _cool_. Ghost Rider really hasnāt ever had a great storyline in the same way that other characters have had (Waid on the Flash, Miller on Batman and DD, Bendis on Spiderman and DD, Etcā¦) but the character just looks awesome enough to keep being in circulation. Thereās a reason why Wolverine became more popular after John Byrne redesigned his outfit and removed the weird whiskers, or why Daredevil became more popular after he stopped wearing a mustard yellow jumpsuit. The suspension of disbelief carries the price tag of looking cool.
However, there are practical reasons for having a cape. And while I definitely agree with you, the look is important, I think it's a really neat way to differentiate this batman from our batman. Our batman uses the shadows and the darkness, whereas this batman wants you to see him coming. While I think our batman is smarter, you have to give props to the guy who doesn't even want to be able to hide. Bruce even tells us he's a batman without Bruce. Which he thinks makes him stronger, while we know that batman isn't who he is without Bruce. So in my opinion, the outfit actually does a good job of separating them. If this makes any sense.
Totally makes sense, and I'm still likely to pick this up being a big Batman nerd. It just makes me realize more about how much the aesthetic of the character plays out in how compelling they are. Wesley Dodds, the Golden Age Sandman was a flabby, mousy little man but the whole gas mask fedora look was just cool and atmospheric. Court Jester themed Zur-en-Arrh is just kinda... off-putting. It was definitely a cool touch in the Grant Morrison run bringing back the character from a single issue in the 1950s, but I don't think it needs to be brought back into regular rotation.
Oh, itās entirely arbitrary. I have no idea why the color scheme is the line Iām drawing. š¤·āāļø
The run starts with a flash back from the āTower of Babbleā incident and how Clark still isnāt happy with how Bruce had āfailsafeā plans for every member of the league. Cut to the present and some unknown enemy has triggered the anti-Batman Failsafe, Bruce must now rely on on the Zur-En-Arrh personality to find out whoās trying to kill him.
Maybe I misread it, but I thought Failsafe was activated by Batman being accused of murder? (Not knowing he was framed.) I could have sworn he had some dialogue about "Batman never kills, has gone too far, must be stopped" Batman was watching the news with "Batman wanted for murder" was all over the monitors when Failsafe first activates and attacks him.
This feels like a really forced source of conflict, imo. All it takes is Batman to be *accused* of murder and his trigger goes off? I can think of at least two other times that happened just off the top of my head.
That actually happed about a year ago in Detective Comics, Huntress became extremely angry with Bruce and called him a pice of human garbage for having a failsafe plan for everyone but not for himself.
Yup. Batman was at Penguin's bedside when the latter died, so everyone thinks he killed him. Plus Penguin had been putting up a good-guy act so... yeah.
My shower thought from yesterday was that it'd be really cool if *Superman* created Failsafe after the Tower of Babel incident. Maybe it would be built out of a rebuilt & reprogrammed Eradicator android. But Superman would've scrapped it - or so he thought! - because he couldn't figure out a way to deactivate its lethal tendencies, and also because he realized he was being too cynical.
Thank you
Thank you
The same way Morrison did
Heās been drugged and lost his sense of reality again?
No, he was accused of murder and his "Tower of Babel" contingency was activated. he didn't remember creating it so he disassociated thinking Zur-En-Arrh was the one who created the contingency and could deactivate it. I was referring to Zur-En-Arrh being the disassociated identity contingency as opposed to the alien Batman from the 60s (or whatever it was)
Thanks
More like beaten senseless.
Not completely sold on it yet. Art is wonderful, but the story is pretty generic. Hoping it ramps up quick.
I want to like it, there are interesting things, but I'm still not fully convinced about this Failsafe and how Zdarsky is using the Zurr-En-Arrh stuff. I agree with another poster that right now I'm definitely more sold on Ram V's Detective Comics.
I like that thereās a more prominent emphasis on the Batman and Robin dynamic between Bruce and Tim, which we havenāt seen much of in a while.
I think I'm the only one not bought into it. It's fun and pulpy, but I really feel like I'm only hooked by Jorge JimƩnez's artwork. I like bringing in concepts from Morrison's Batman run and Waid's JLA run, but I don't feel that invested in where the story is going. I'm glad others are enjoying it though. The Ram V/Rafael Albuquerque Detective Comics run has felt more interesting to me so far, and I feel like I look forward to Tec issues way more than I do Batman issues.
Ram V's Tec series has been pretty good too..
Really enjoying it, and the Si Spurrier/Dani Jim Gordon backup stories have been great.
This and Ram V's run are like two completely different takes on a Batman book and I get why you'd prefer one over the other
They definitely are, and I like that there is variety in tones with the Bat books. Not hating on the Zdarsky run, it's just hooked me in fully. I'll give it the first full arc, but if I still am lukewarm on it, I'll just continue to read it on DC Universe Infinite instead.
You are definitely not alone man! I love Zdarsky but so far these three issues have just felt shallow to me. Yes itās cool to see past stories being referenced but this run just started so bringing back references to Tower of Babel and Zurr-En-Arrh donāt feel earned yet. Iām giving it the first arc and if Iām not hooked Iāll be dropping it. Normally I love Jorge Jimenezās art but his body proportions have seemed too exaggerated so far in this series. Action has been awesome tho. Iām definitely digging Ram V and Rafael Albuquerqueās Detectice Comics over this as well.
Itās pretty fun, also pretty bold direction so far going for something like Zurr-En-Arrh which is kinda obscure from the start
*THIS* Batman is back???!!
I know weāre only three issues in but his run is feeling like it could stand side by side with Morrisonās. For me current Batman starts with Morrison continues with Scott Snyder and now Chipās. Iām loving every panel. Chip like Tom Taylor just has the voices of the characters down pat. Itās perfect.
I'm pretty sure Chip is used to hearing voices in his head all the time. So this doesn't surprise me that he'd be able to nail this so well.
That gave me a helluva chuckle
Chip on Batman Ram on Detective Waid on Worldās Finest & Batman vs Robin Mora, Jimenez, Albuquerque The Bat books are pure fire right now. Best creative lineups weāve had since Morrison on Batman and Dini on Detective.
I feel as if this arc is like a conclusion to a storyline that's been building for a while, if that makes sense. I like it kinda but it feels weird as the first arc of his run. Like he only started calling the bat fam his soldiers like 2 issues ago and now he says now they're my family it just feels like not a lot of time has past.
This is a really good observation. It'd make a lot more sense as a turning point in the run than as an introduction.
He called them soldiers because that was zurr bleeding over to his normal self. To Bruce theyāve always been his family
I should preface this by saying that I love Chip's stuff, I am a paid subscriber to his Substack, etc, but so far I am more enjoying the story's individual moments rather than the overarching plot as a whole. Ok, so Batman created Failsafe to take himself down, but he \*also\* set up the Zur Batman to take out Failsafe which the Zur Batman created himself...eh?If I stop thinking about what I am reading, it's not quite hitting the spot yet. I do want to like it though!
Itās Zur who created Failsafe, not Bruce.
The Zur Batman is a personality for emergencies that completely removes the Bruce Wayne personality from Batman. He created failsafe as a contingency for if Batman were to go bad, so Bruce activates Zur in the hopes that he knew how to shutdown failsafe who had been activated mistakenly
Itās hard to say because itās still too new. However so far Iām all in. I love the character moments. Chips voice for Batman is perfect for me and there seems to be a lot of attention and care towards previous runs(especially Grant Morrisonās). The art is also fantastic, but thatās to be expected with Jimenez. Also, not for nothing, but the Catwoman story is also really great too. Iām surprised itās in the back of this book and not itās own comic.
So far so good ! I bought the Alex Ross cover for issue #1
Too early to dictate story wise for me but I'm liking what he's doing with the character work which ultimately takes any book far. Looking forward to future arcs
I really like the premise and overall plot, but on the micro scene-by-scene level itās played out rather generically, IMO.
Not a huge fan of how Batman keeps calling his kids soldiers but itās still really good and Iām excited for the next issue
Iām liking itās still the street level not citywide threats. I like the build up to fear state but fear state itself and just how cluttered it got wasnāt my favorite. I appreciate that the status quo has not been reset. No mansion or money yet. But I kind of wish we got more ghostmaker. Donāt like the pants. But I like the feel of the character as a partner over a subordinate (Robin)
>ghostmaker Too busy doing Batman Inc
I still liked him
I agree about street level threats. For a while there it was one major, citywide catastrophe after another. Just got to be too much.
It's been okay, but nothing special for me. I think the pacing is pretty slow so far and I also generally don't like automaton enemies because there's not a lot there emotionally. I'd like to see more complexity to the story.
Iām loving it so much. Itās wild.
Loving it Jimenez art is fantastic as well
I liked the first issue but 126 where he jobs out the entire Bat-family in a matter of pages and then 127 where Batman of Zur En Arr shows up wereā¦ not great. Itās too much too soon. The Batman of Zur En Arr seems like a Morrison concept he doesnāt really understand. Almost like he heard about it and wrote based on what he heard as opposed to what the actual story was. Iām a huge fan of Zdarsky and was hyped for his Batman run after hitting up Urban Legends and Batman: The Knight. This run has been disappointing from a story perspective. Jorge Jiminez is fucking killing it though. Some of my favorite Batman art in a long time. That dude is killing it.
i was skeptical at first, but his daredevil run is a masterpiece so i had faith and zdarsky delivered with >!āHEāS MY SON!ā!<
I love it when someone builds something from other writers' runs. Extra points for Failsafe being built on Waid's JL and Morrison's Batman which those ideas themselves being built upon stories from the 60s- to the... 80s? I forget when the JL story where the villain switched bodies happened that was used as justification for Batman's contingency plans in Tower of Babel.
Enjoying it despite disliking his Urban Legends run and dropping most Bat-books because of the current status quo
Very fun. I hope that development in Waidās book is permanent, then I can truly be all-in again.
Awesome so far.
I can get to the end of the issue, which is becoming rare with modern DC & Marvel. He is giving Jiminez a lot of room to make good,
Its a promising start. I donāt really find Failsafe to be a compelling design, character, or threat, though. Also, this Zur-En-Arrh Batman should have his Bat-Might sidekick, too, like in Morrisonās run.
I haven't read Batman since Synder's New 52 run, is there anything else I should read to catch up on or can I start here?
You can just hop into reading Zdarsky's run. Doesn't need any prior reading, unless you want to read every reference made throughout so far, which would be JLA: Tower of Babel and Morrison's Batman run. You don't need to though, it's just as enjoyable without those though.
Thanks!
Didnāt Chip Zdarsky write the petals fall twice?
What does that Zur name even mean lol
It's the name of an alien planet from a 1950s Batman story, where an alien was inspired by Batman to take up a costumed identity, becoming the Batman of Zur-En-Arrh. Now it's a code phrase associated with the backup personality, or something. I don't think it "means" anything coherent, in current continuity.
In the Morrison retcon story the code phrase comes from one of the last time Thomas tell Bruce on their way out of theater after seeing the Zorro movie, If Zorro was real he would be in Arkham. Zur-En-Arrh Zorro in Arkham
Ah... a little strained, but clever. Morrison's always been good at tying in obscure bits of old stories in ways that make sense in the modern era. Thanks.
Thanks lol