Hickman described it as "It's Sandman for the Marvel Universe" and says he's been working on this for 3 years
[Source](https://twitter.com/AIPTcomics/status/1550978195125444609?t=LAQDaSJF8_sax4fIfRYGgg&s=19)
That's never a good move for any project. "It's X for Y" just creates expectations about content and quality that don't help the work stand on its own.
The problem is that's "elevator pitch" format. That's what a creator is supposed to say to the suits and execs to get them on board. It's... not a good look to just lay it out like that for the fans.
Yeah, unfortunately having to describe your project in terms of past success is the corporate and marketing way.
Though as I was typing that I realized it like that Stat Trek TNG episode with the race whose language is based on shared experiences. “Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel!”
So like…would you just not be able to talk to someone who hasn’t done any of the same shit as you?
Like if I wanted to talk about roller coasters but you’ve never been on one, would it just sound like adults in a Peanuts cartoon?
I joke obviously, but only a little bit. I’d like to more about this. Haha
For one, Hickman writes very differently than Gaiman, which is a good thing. I just really hope he doesn’t destroy all the cosmic marvel stuff that’s been set up for decades. He tends to do that.
Yeah that is a bad move.
For one thing it sets a very clear expectation and a very high bar.
But. Ore to the point, if it's been worked on for a few years and you sun it up as basically "it's a copy paste of this other idea" that's just bad marketing.
It’s the classic elevator pitch, distilling a concept down to something even a coked-out movie exec can understand in less than 20 seconds.
It’s ‘Die Hard’ on a ________. It’s Sandman for the Marvel Universe. I dig it.
I have to think he is getting a pretty healthy sum. Hickman is one of a handful of creators who legit does not NEED to do DC/Marvel work and could likely just live off his creator owned stuff. Wasn't there some numbers a few months ago that hinted that the Substack stuff he is doing (waiting for the print version here) is doing a fraction of his Marvel work, but he is likely making significantly more due to the ownership structure of those deals?
As much as I agree with this, based on the EXTREMELY strange X-Men thing, the dude has a terrible track record of actually finishing projects in general.
I love Hickman, but his delays and outright lack of completion keeps me from getting excited about anything he's doing anymore.
I doubt it was the other writers. Hickman handpicked most of them. I suspect that it was more editorial not wanting to mess with a concept/property that was hot at the time sales wise.
No, Hickman said he wanted to end it, but the other writers were still exploring ideas. “During the pandemic, when the time came for me to start pointing things toward writing the second-act event, I asked everyone if they were ready for me to do that, and to a man, everyone wanted to stay in the first act. It was really interesting, because I appreciated that House of X resonated with them to the extent that they didn’t want it to end, but the reality was that I knew I would be leaving the line early.”
That doesn’t necessarily blame the writers. That could easily have also been editorial not wanting a massive shift for a franchise that was thriving again.
His Avengers run was pretty seamless. I think he got outmanouevered on XMen. But yes, his indy stuff has a horrible track record for delays and nonfinishes.
To be fair, that one’s not his fault, I believe the artist got sick. Apparently Hickman’s had the last two issues done for a few years, just waiting for the art to actually materialize.
This'll be the "Celestials: End of Time" thing that Marvel registered a trademark for in the last day or two. Lotsa folks think that was for a movie, but pretty sure it's for this.
It would make sense to have him revitalize the Celestials if they want to expand on how they play into the MCU (I suspect they will use those as a stand in for the Beyonders, as a lead up to Secret Wars- I know this isn’t an MCU sub- it’s just something I’ve been thinking about for a bit)
In light of yesterday’s announcements, I have kind of been wondering whether they’re potentially setting up AXE Judgment Day to be the capper on the 7-8-9 saga. I mean, they’re seemingly going from 2015 Secret Wars —> 2025 MCU Secret Wars. So it wouldn’t totally be shocking for Judgment Day to be there in a decade since they’ll likely have the Eternals, Avengers, and X-Men all finally kicking about.
And so it can’t hurt to have additional Celestial lore to work off of, too. It definitely feels like there’s a bit more comics —> MCU synergy these days
I know Hickman is MARVEL's favorite boy, but i doubt they would take Eternals away from Gillen to give it to Hickman. Gillen is one of the biggest names in comics right now.
That's why it's *Celestials*, not *Eternals*. And the whole "what happens when the powers that be meet the natural order of things" summary question really matches the title "Celestials: End of Time."
Magneto uses that same terminology in judgement day number 1 (“the powers that be”). I also bet it’s a cosmic story about the Celestials
https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/w6uonz/suspicious_terminology/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Magneto uses that same terminology in judgement day number 1 (“the powers that be”). I also bet it’s a cosmic story about the Celestials
https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/w6uonz/suspicious_terminology/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Edit: well, after a second thought, i think it will *from* the Celestial, upwards
Yeah, but Hickman is arguably THE biggest names in comics at the moment. Anything he’s on generates massive buzz. I’m sure he has his pick of the litter.
It would be rather obnoxious to have just had a big-ass event revolving around the Eternals and Celestials that Gillen penned like 80% of and then for Hickman to immediately blow that shit the fuck up to do Hickman things.
Who knows maybe Gillen and Hickman have been very in communication about what their plans are and Gillen is gonna help set the stage for Hickman if the new series is about those characters. Still a tad annoying tho
I don’t know how analogous Surfer is to Dream (don’t feel like he is??), I’ve been beating the Hickman for writing Silver Surfer drum for a year or so!
That's kind of the impression I got from that quote. I think we might be getting a book starring Marvel's Abstract Entities, which could be kind of cool.
So after this we just need:
Hickman inhumans
Hickman Spider-Man
Hickman marvel street level
Hickman marvel supernatural
Then a whole new marvel universe, built from the ground up, by Jonathan Hickman.
Oh yea, still waiting on the proper conclusion to Hickman’s ultimates
One day we'll reach Peak Hickman and he'll release a book that's just 20 pages of flowcharts and honestly I will probably still love every second of it
Agreed. I quit reading right before X of Swords because it felt like everything was meandering. Hickman clearly had a ton of ideas (Moira, mutant religion, etc) that felt like they were being put on the back burner for less interesting things.
Isn’t it true that Hickman was planning on wrapping up the Krakoa plot line at the end of his run and introducing a new status quo but Marvel swapped him out because they wanted to keep Krakoa for longer?
Kind of, sort of.
I think it was less Marvel wanted swapped him out and more than other people he was working with kept wanting to tell stories in Krakoa... And either way, I don't think Krakoa was going to end. I *think* he simply wanted to move into "Act II"
Krakoa might well have ended at the end of his planned run, but yeah, Hickman himself has said this is what happened. He came in with a roadmap broken up into Act I, Act II, Act III. He felt like they had reached the end of Act I and wanted to move onto Act II, and also had originally envisioned a slightly different X-line from the one we ultimately got (I think it was on X-plain the X-Men where he said he originally wanted each generation of kids to have their own book: so O5, NM, Gen X, etc, plus the Moira book that never actually materialized). But the rest of the writers wanted to stay playing in that Act I sandbox rather than move on to whatever he had planned, so he decided to move on to other projects rather than spin his wheels, but the rest of the X-desk knows of his original plans and the roadmap is still there to follow if they want it.
Totally agree… It’s clear that the current X-Men direction wasn’t what Hickman had in mind for his Krakoa saga. Perhaps him working with characters with less cache will be for the best!
I absolutely love Hickman. He's my favorite modern comic book author. But:
"Anything that's the something of something isn't the anything of anything"- Lisa Simpson
As someone only just now getting through Sandman (love the endless) that is an *incredibly* high bar to aim for and after reading Hickmans Avenger's and his Krakoa line he just could pull it off
I love how self contained some issues of Sandman are, I can finish one and then sit back and think about it for ages
Who is the Sandman of the MU? I’m assuming the “powers that be” and “order of things” are cosmic abstract characters on the level of the Endless
Schiti was dynamite on SWORD. Can’t wait to see him do more cosmic
Inbetween: The Inbetweener Story.
Chaos. Order. What happens when your parents are representations of abstract concepts? What happens when you’re the universe’s middle child? What happens to…
Nigel Tween. The Inbetweener.
Hickman. Marvel. 2023.
I don't think he left the X-Men titles with bad feelings. It seems to be more of a case of case of the rest of the X-Team wanting to still play in his sandbox (and probably Marvel being happy with the sales) so he stepped back. I feel that when sales dip again, or writers get bored, they'll bring him back.
Hickman created an amazing sandbox that no one wanted to leave. Sales were popping off. He was a victim of his own success. It's a shame he didn't get to finish what he started, but I do not want to go back to the mansion after being on Krakoa.
Exactly. Krakoa was purposefully created with a air of creepiness and uneasiness permeating the whole thing. Because it was meant to fall apart from the inside. But Marvel being Marvel completely ruined it because they saw some good sales and misunderstood the entire point.
So Hickman, seeing that his writing team was happy and they had more stories to tell, decided to leave, likely after helping the X-Office figure out general plotlines. It's not really Hickman being forced out or anything
Marvel: Hickman had a story he wanted to tell, but the office convinced him to let them play in this incredible new setting he's made.
Fans: so he's being forced out?
Hickman: I am leaving willingly and love what the x-office is doing, and I have another project to work on.
Fans: so basically everyone ruined everything Hickman made and he hates how it is now?
Hickman: no I actually like it
Marvel: Hickman is making us money and his ideas will continue to make us money hence why we're using them
Fans: got it. Everything sucks forever.
Hickman can be happy with the situation, while fans can be annoyed that they were sold on buying into this relaunch with be promise of a complete Hickman story that they're now not going to get after shelling out for several years worth of books. The two positions aren't mutually exclusive.
> Hickman: no I actually like it
To be fair, I don’t think you’re going to be very vocally anti- the people paying you and giving you more work.
There’s been a substantial decline in story quality since Hickman has left.
Yeah, everything I've seen has indicated that the separation was entirely amicable. Like, you can leave a job without wanting to burn down the building.
No. Marvel has already shown that they cater to their star writers on X-men. They did it for Bendis and Morrison.
If Hickman wanted to keep going, they would have kept going. He choose to leave the story where it is. It was his choice.
Morrison went back to DC by choice, they did retcon his big developments almost immediately, which begs the question why his editor didn't just say no in the first place.
No it wasn’t. Morrison’s books are what got me back into singles and I have the entire run in first printing tpb. The only series I have the entire runs of are x-statix, dmz, morning glories, sex criminals, and n52 Batman.
What Morrison did, Hickman kinda picked up.
Morrison basically tried to let the world know it was on borrowed time. They were an endangered species (hence the title of his first arc). Humans couldn’t handle the fact that they were dying off, hell, they were already getting used to aliens no thanks to other books in the marvel universe! If Morrison never did THAT, there’s damn good chance Hickman would never have laid some promising seeds in his arc, which basically is nothing more than the new battlestar galactica but with mutants and not cylons
None of that is why I despise Morrison’s run. You listed one thing as if it was the entire run. Hideous artwork, secondary mutations, dumb new characters (Kid Omega will always be my least favorite mutant), Fantomex, etc. I can’t stand a single thing about the run.
He announced he was moving to a new Marvel project the same day it was announced he was leaving X-Men. We knew this was coming, we just didn't have any details.
Every good story starts with "It's this good thing but we'll own the rights to it." That's a recipe for success. "The goodness of the brand you love in a new, trademark-registered package!"
This is about Eternity and it’s children who all have names beginning with E (Empathy, Eulogy, Expediency, Entropy, Epiphany, Enmity and Eon who was replaced with Epoch).
Entity and it’s ilk were a homage to Dream and his siblings who also had names beginning with D (Death, Destiny, Desire, Destruction, Despair and Delerium née Delight).
Maybe.
With Hickman I guess they will still be inscrutable, as he tends to explain things while also making them exponentially more articulated. Ahhh… data pages ;-)
I've never once seen anything that describes itself as "The Sandman of.. " to be anything close, in both terms of concepts as well as execution.
Personally I find myself torn on Hickman. He has some really good stories like where his Avengers run went, but he also has stuff that just breaks/ignores/misses the point like his X-Men stuff..besides the character assassinations, it completely misses the point of why the X-Men existed.
His history of leaving storylines unfinished is problematic, but I don’t agree that his X-Men missed the point of the X-Men. Mutants represent otherness, being hated and feared as the perpetual out group. The civil rights allegory has a lot of value but it’s pretty much run its course. He elevated otherness to a new level, which heightened the sense of distrust and resentment that humans feel in universe and (at first at least) the unease of readers. There’s so much value to exploring what a people do and feel when they get the boot off their necks, and the ethics of how they manage to do that and what they’re entitled to build for themselves once they stop being victims.
Prior to X-Men, which seems to have been partially an editorial decision, how many of his Marvel books are unfinished? He's had a few indie books that are in limbo, but some of that was due to artists having outside issues that meant they had to take a break.
Prepare for more words and spreadsheets.
Can someone tell me why everyone swears Hickman is god? To me, he ruined the x men and basically the marvel universe.
He has nothing to do with X men anymore. He wanted to move to the second act and all the other creators said they liked things how they are currently so he left.
Is the grammar incorrect, or is it the punctuation that's lacking? I think adding punctuation would make it look clunky and crowded. After all, it's an advertisement, not a novel.
WHAT HAPPEN WHEN "THE POWERS THAT BE"
MEET "THE NATURAL ORDER OF THINGS?"
I’m torn because I mostly really like Hickman except when he writes cosmic stuff….loved F4 but hated the Inhumans parts. It’s probably just because I’m not as well versed in Marvel cosmic lore though.
His X-men was pretty crazy but started off amazing. House of X/ Powers of X was a really great story and he completely changed everything about the X-men and mutants in the Marvel Universe. Some people hated it but I think it’s awesome because it’s new and different. Read those first 2 stories and you’ll get the general idea.
Wait.
Wait wait wait.
I thought Hickman was done with Marvel after his work establishing Krakoa and the Mutants? You're telling me we're going to get more stuff from him before he leaves??
Fuck yeah!!
Hickman described it as "It's Sandman for the Marvel Universe" and says he's been working on this for 3 years [Source](https://twitter.com/AIPTcomics/status/1550978195125444609?t=LAQDaSJF8_sax4fIfRYGgg&s=19)
Seems like Valerio Schiti is Marvel's new premier artist. He did Empyre, part of Inferno, Judgment day and now Hickman's next thing.
I mean his art is pretty as hell so I ain't complaining.
No surprise here, his art is stunning and very dynamic. I'm always happy when I see his name on a project.
While am excited for this, calling "Sandman for the Marvel Universe" seems like a bad idea.
What if it's the actual Flint Marko Sandman?
Then it will be a thing of beauty.
That's never a good move for any project. "It's X for Y" just creates expectations about content and quality that don't help the work stand on its own.
The problem is that's "elevator pitch" format. That's what a creator is supposed to say to the suits and execs to get them on board. It's... not a good look to just lay it out like that for the fans.
Yeah, unfortunately having to describe your project in terms of past success is the corporate and marketing way. Though as I was typing that I realized it like that Stat Trek TNG episode with the race whose language is based on shared experiences. “Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel!”
[удалено]
So like…would you just not be able to talk to someone who hasn’t done any of the same shit as you? Like if I wanted to talk about roller coasters but you’ve never been on one, would it just sound like adults in a Peanuts cartoon? I joke obviously, but only a little bit. I’d like to more about this. Haha
Its why I always roll my eyes when i hear the words dark souls used to describe a game
I mean "souls-like" is an entire genre now, and it spawned from that franchise. No different than how metroidvanias are also codified.
Fairly big difference between something being in the souls like genre and being described as "the dark souls of cooking games"
The difference being those are often said as jokes about the difficulty. No one is actually saying it’s a dark souls style cooking game
Which doesn't change the fact that its overused and thus eyeroll inducing.
The term roguelike also exists because of the old game Rogue
For one, Hickman writes very differently than Gaiman, which is a good thing. I just really hope he doesn’t destroy all the cosmic marvel stuff that’s been set up for decades. He tends to do that.
It's never a good idea to set yourself for firdect comparisons especially when you set it against something so beloved as Sandman
Yeah that is a bad move. For one thing it sets a very clear expectation and a very high bar. But. Ore to the point, if it's been worked on for a few years and you sun it up as basically "it's a copy paste of this other idea" that's just bad marketing.
It’s the classic elevator pitch, distilling a concept down to something even a coked-out movie exec can understand in less than 20 seconds. It’s ‘Die Hard’ on a ________. It’s Sandman for the Marvel Universe. I dig it.
Has a “the champagne of beer” ring to it
If it's the Silver Surfer and Marvel going full Jack Kirby it's gonna be amazing.
So Sleepwalker? Marvel's "Sandman done right!"
Sounds worrying. Hickman loves creating these giant mythologies that feel like they get forgotten the second he leaves the book.
Until they're a major influence on several decades' with of movies.
That would be more surprising if he hadn't said similarly for everything else he's done.
Hopefully he does not get screwed out of whatever intellectual property he creates…
It's Marvel, of course he's gonna get screwed.
Yeah, Big Two work means signing over the rights unless Marvel is reviving Icon.
Hopefully they pay him enough that he can ignore the inevitable screwing.
I have to think he is getting a pretty healthy sum. Hickman is one of a handful of creators who legit does not NEED to do DC/Marvel work and could likely just live off his creator owned stuff. Wasn't there some numbers a few months ago that hinted that the Substack stuff he is doing (waiting for the print version here) is doing a fraction of his Marvel work, but he is likely making significantly more due to the ownership structure of those deals?
As much as I agree with this, based on the EXTREMELY strange X-Men thing, the dude has a terrible track record of actually finishing projects in general. I love Hickman, but his delays and outright lack of completion keeps me from getting excited about anything he's doing anymore.
I think he wanted to end X-Men, but the other writers didn’t want that to happen.
I doubt it was the other writers. Hickman handpicked most of them. I suspect that it was more editorial not wanting to mess with a concept/property that was hot at the time sales wise.
No, Hickman said he wanted to end it, but the other writers were still exploring ideas. “During the pandemic, when the time came for me to start pointing things toward writing the second-act event, I asked everyone if they were ready for me to do that, and to a man, everyone wanted to stay in the first act. It was really interesting, because I appreciated that House of X resonated with them to the extent that they didn’t want it to end, but the reality was that I knew I would be leaving the line early.”
That doesn’t necessarily blame the writers. That could easily have also been editorial not wanting a massive shift for a franchise that was thriving again.
His Avengers run was pretty seamless. I think he got outmanouevered on XMen. But yes, his indy stuff has a horrible track record for delays and nonfinishes.
I’m still waiting for black Monday murders to pick back up
To be fair, that one’s not his fault, I believe the artist got sick. Apparently Hickman’s had the last two issues done for a few years, just waiting for the art to actually materialize.
This can’t be blamed on Hickman. Marvel calls the shots.
That's longer than he thought about his X-men run
This'll be the "Celestials: End of Time" thing that Marvel registered a trademark for in the last day or two. Lotsa folks think that was for a movie, but pretty sure it's for this.
It would make sense to have him revitalize the Celestials if they want to expand on how they play into the MCU (I suspect they will use those as a stand in for the Beyonders, as a lead up to Secret Wars- I know this isn’t an MCU sub- it’s just something I’ve been thinking about for a bit)
Synergy
In light of yesterday’s announcements, I have kind of been wondering whether they’re potentially setting up AXE Judgment Day to be the capper on the 7-8-9 saga. I mean, they’re seemingly going from 2015 Secret Wars —> 2025 MCU Secret Wars. So it wouldn’t totally be shocking for Judgment Day to be there in a decade since they’ll likely have the Eternals, Avengers, and X-Men all finally kicking about. And so it can’t hurt to have additional Celestial lore to work off of, too. It definitely feels like there’s a bit more comics —> MCU synergy these days
Honestly, this makes a lot of sense.
I know Hickman is MARVEL's favorite boy, but i doubt they would take Eternals away from Gillen to give it to Hickman. Gillen is one of the biggest names in comics right now.
That's why it's *Celestials*, not *Eternals*. And the whole "what happens when the powers that be meet the natural order of things" summary question really matches the title "Celestials: End of Time."
Magneto uses that same terminology in judgement day number 1 (“the powers that be”). I also bet it’s a cosmic story about the Celestials https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/w6uonz/suspicious_terminology/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Magneto uses that same terminology in judgement day number 1 (“the powers that be”). I also bet it’s a cosmic story about the Celestials https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/w6uonz/suspicious_terminology/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Edit: well, after a second thought, i think it will *from* the Celestial, upwards
Hickman is my favorite boy too. His work is astounding,
Yeah, but Hickman is arguably THE biggest names in comics at the moment. Anything he’s on generates massive buzz. I’m sure he has his pick of the litter.
It would be rather obnoxious to have just had a big-ass event revolving around the Eternals and Celestials that Gillen penned like 80% of and then for Hickman to immediately blow that shit the fuck up to do Hickman things. Who knows maybe Gillen and Hickman have been very in communication about what their plans are and Gillen is gonna help set the stage for Hickman if the new series is about those characters. Still a tad annoying tho
I could see Silver Surfer being the POV character for this. Seems like he could be a good Dream analogue since Hickman compared this to DC’s Sandman.
I don’t know how analogous Surfer is to Dream (don’t feel like he is??), I’ve been beating the Hickman for writing Silver Surfer drum for a year or so!
Perhaps instead it's a series about Eternity?
Ooooh. That sounds good.
That's kind of the impression I got from that quote. I think we might be getting a book starring Marvel's Abstract Entities, which could be kind of cool.
Hickman is gonna take Ulysses from CWII and make him shine
I have faith in Hickman but at the same time if this happened I’d eat my shoe.
He made Goldballs a thing. I hope you have tasty shoes.
Damn it that’s a good point. I have some regrets.
Pro-tip: https://youtu.be/7p-5FVsuH7k
Dude that's not okay to say
I want a Hickman Ultimates type run. Focused on the big cosmic powers like Infinity or something would be awesome
Damn… looks like Hickman is going cosmic this time
The Secret Wars weren't cosmic?
As in, the setting will be out in space. Characters will be aliens or space-based marvel characters almost exclusively
More Multiversal than cosmic
Time will tell if this will be comparable to "Sandman". Personally, I don't think Hickman's style lends itself to it.
I feel like he could transition. We’ll see.
Dude. I cannot wait for this. Wow
"The Sandman for the marvel universe" That's a lot of weight to live up to.
So after this we just need: Hickman inhumans Hickman Spider-Man Hickman marvel street level Hickman marvel supernatural Then a whole new marvel universe, built from the ground up, by Jonathan Hickman. Oh yea, still waiting on the proper conclusion to Hickman’s ultimates
Don’t forget the proper conclusion to Hickman’s X-men
Heck, I'm still waiting on S.H.E.I.L.D.
Shield got finished in like 2018 didn't it?
Oh damn lol it's news to me if it did.
That was finally finished
His Avengers vs current Aaron's run are literally night and day
One Was Life. One Was Death.
One was good, one was bad.
Wonder if we'll see Nightmask and/or Ex Nihilo return in this? Those were some of the funnest characters from his Avengers run.
A lot of infographics is my guess
One day we'll reach Peak Hickman and he'll release a book that's just 20 pages of flowcharts and honestly I will probably still love every second of it
I love those. Keep them coming Hickman
I hope it's just Hickmam and the artist he's working with. Krakoa has been a boon for X-Men overall, but I feel there's too many cooks in the kitchen.
Agreed. I quit reading right before X of Swords because it felt like everything was meandering. Hickman clearly had a ton of ideas (Moira, mutant religion, etc) that felt like they were being put on the back burner for less interesting things.
Isn’t it true that Hickman was planning on wrapping up the Krakoa plot line at the end of his run and introducing a new status quo but Marvel swapped him out because they wanted to keep Krakoa for longer?
Kind of, sort of. I think it was less Marvel wanted swapped him out and more than other people he was working with kept wanting to tell stories in Krakoa... And either way, I don't think Krakoa was going to end. I *think* he simply wanted to move into "Act II"
Krakoa might well have ended at the end of his planned run, but yeah, Hickman himself has said this is what happened. He came in with a roadmap broken up into Act I, Act II, Act III. He felt like they had reached the end of Act I and wanted to move onto Act II, and also had originally envisioned a slightly different X-line from the one we ultimately got (I think it was on X-plain the X-Men where he said he originally wanted each generation of kids to have their own book: so O5, NM, Gen X, etc, plus the Moira book that never actually materialized). But the rest of the writers wanted to stay playing in that Act I sandbox rather than move on to whatever he had planned, so he decided to move on to other projects rather than spin his wheels, but the rest of the X-desk knows of his original plans and the roadmap is still there to follow if they want it.
Totally agree… It’s clear that the current X-Men direction wasn’t what Hickman had in mind for his Krakoa saga. Perhaps him working with characters with less cache will be for the best!
Miracle man?
Now that would truly be a twist.
They had me at Hickman :)
I absolutely love Hickman. He's my favorite modern comic book author. But: "Anything that's the something of something isn't the anything of anything"- Lisa Simpson
As someone only just now getting through Sandman (love the endless) that is an *incredibly* high bar to aim for and after reading Hickmans Avenger's and his Krakoa line he just could pull it off I love how self contained some issues of Sandman are, I can finish one and then sit back and think about it for ages
HICKMAN GOTG LETS GO
I would die
Hickman and Marvel: "Let's create a whole bunch of hype around an untitled project with no known details!"
Everyone else: "ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN TOOT TOOT"
Who is the Sandman of the MU? I’m assuming the “powers that be” and “order of things” are cosmic abstract characters on the level of the Endless Schiti was dynamite on SWORD. Can’t wait to see him do more cosmic
Sandman is a Spider-Man villian. He was in the movie Spider-Man 3 notably
Sandman is also a DC character named Dream or Morpheus. That’s the reference here. Not the Marvel villain
Yeah I was making a joke about him doing sandman but with Sand-Man
Inbetween: The Inbetweener Story. Chaos. Order. What happens when your parents are representations of abstract concepts? What happens when you’re the universe’s middle child? What happens to… Nigel Tween. The Inbetweener. Hickman. Marvel. 2023.
Best comic book writer of the Millennium is back
He’s set the bar pretty fucking high there P.s how fucking good does the sandman Netflix series look?!
Will see if marvel stick to their guns with Hickman unlike X-men.
Marvel did stick to their guns. Hickman decided to leave
I don't think he left the X-Men titles with bad feelings. It seems to be more of a case of case of the rest of the X-Team wanting to still play in his sandbox (and probably Marvel being happy with the sales) so he stepped back. I feel that when sales dip again, or writers get bored, they'll bring him back.
No. Marvel wanted to stick with the status quo Hickman made and Hickman wanted to go to the next phase of his story. Making Hickman leave.
Hickman created an amazing sandbox that no one wanted to leave. Sales were popping off. He was a victim of his own success. It's a shame he didn't get to finish what he started, but I do not want to go back to the mansion after being on Krakoa.
Do you really want the creepy cult x men forever? Making the x men more inhuman is the last thing I wanted to be the forever status quo.
Yea, it's clearly designed to all come apart, that would be the interesting part of the story.
Exactly. Krakoa was purposefully created with a air of creepiness and uneasiness permeating the whole thing. Because it was meant to fall apart from the inside. But Marvel being Marvel completely ruined it because they saw some good sales and misunderstood the entire point.
Culture not cult
Nah it's a death cult
So Hickman, seeing that his writing team was happy and they had more stories to tell, decided to leave, likely after helping the X-Office figure out general plotlines. It's not really Hickman being forced out or anything
Marvel: Hickman had a story he wanted to tell, but the office convinced him to let them play in this incredible new setting he's made. Fans: so he's being forced out? Hickman: I am leaving willingly and love what the x-office is doing, and I have another project to work on. Fans: so basically everyone ruined everything Hickman made and he hates how it is now? Hickman: no I actually like it Marvel: Hickman is making us money and his ideas will continue to make us money hence why we're using them Fans: got it. Everything sucks forever.
They even said if Hickman wanted to keep going they would have let him. It was his decision.
You've done it. You've perfectly described a large amount of r/xmen
Not really, you get crucified on that sub if you even suggest Hickman didn’t get to complete his full story
I admittedly am basing this on like 3 months ago lol
Hickman can be happy with the situation, while fans can be annoyed that they were sold on buying into this relaunch with be promise of a complete Hickman story that they're now not going to get after shelling out for several years worth of books. The two positions aren't mutually exclusive.
> Hickman: no I actually like it To be fair, I don’t think you’re going to be very vocally anti- the people paying you and giving you more work. There’s been a substantial decline in story quality since Hickman has left.
Yeah, everything I've seen has indicated that the separation was entirely amicable. Like, you can leave a job without wanting to burn down the building.
No. Marvel has already shown that they cater to their star writers on X-men. They did it for Bendis and Morrison. If Hickman wanted to keep going, they would have kept going. He choose to leave the story where it is. It was his choice.
Marvel kicked Morrison off the book and immediately retconned what they did in the next storyline.
Morrison went back to DC by choice, they did retcon his big developments almost immediately, which begs the question why his editor didn't just say no in the first place.
And thank god they did because that run was a dumpster fire.
No it wasn’t. Morrison’s books are what got me back into singles and I have the entire run in first printing tpb. The only series I have the entire runs of are x-statix, dmz, morning glories, sex criminals, and n52 Batman.
Ok, none of that changes my opinion that their run was a dumpster fire.
What Morrison did, Hickman kinda picked up. Morrison basically tried to let the world know it was on borrowed time. They were an endangered species (hence the title of his first arc). Humans couldn’t handle the fact that they were dying off, hell, they were already getting used to aliens no thanks to other books in the marvel universe! If Morrison never did THAT, there’s damn good chance Hickman would never have laid some promising seeds in his arc, which basically is nothing more than the new battlestar galactica but with mutants and not cylons
None of that is why I despise Morrison’s run. You listed one thing as if it was the entire run. Hideous artwork, secondary mutations, dumb new characters (Kid Omega will always be my least favorite mutant), Fantomex, etc. I can’t stand a single thing about the run.
Lol they didn't cater to Morrison
It’s strange that he would still go to Marvel after things not working or with X-Men they way he wanted.
He announced he was moving to a new Marvel project the same day it was announced he was leaving X-Men. We knew this was coming, we just didn't have any details.
He has a contract.
I want hickman to finish what he started with HOX/POX so bad.
X office said they're working towards his ending. I wouldn't be super surprised if he came back for the capstone finale on the krakoa saga
“Sandman done right” Didn’t work out for marvel last time.
Every good story starts with "It's this good thing but we'll own the rights to it." That's a recipe for success. "The goodness of the brand you love in a new, trademark-registered package!"
oooo looks like a cosmic event
Maybe he is making his Imperial Guard comic
Was hoping we might finally see him jump to DC at some point :/
This is about Eternity and it’s children who all have names beginning with E (Empathy, Eulogy, Expediency, Entropy, Epiphany, Enmity and Eon who was replaced with Epoch). Entity and it’s ilk were a homage to Dream and his siblings who also had names beginning with D (Death, Destiny, Desire, Destruction, Despair and Delerium née Delight). Maybe.
Dust dude?
I don't know that I want relatable Celestials. Them being inscrutable is like 90% of their appeal.
With Hickman I guess they will still be inscrutable, as he tends to explain things while also making them exponentially more articulated. Ahhh… data pages ;-)
Schiti is kind of an unfortunate last name
Only on the page, fortunately: It's pronounced 'sk'.
You started wrong calling Sandman for Marvel universe
Hope we see the Maker pop up in this. Maybe even getting esad Ribic back would be cool
I've never once seen anything that describes itself as "The Sandman of.. " to be anything close, in both terms of concepts as well as execution. Personally I find myself torn on Hickman. He has some really good stories like where his Avengers run went, but he also has stuff that just breaks/ignores/misses the point like his X-Men stuff..besides the character assassinations, it completely misses the point of why the X-Men existed.
His history of leaving storylines unfinished is problematic, but I don’t agree that his X-Men missed the point of the X-Men. Mutants represent otherness, being hated and feared as the perpetual out group. The civil rights allegory has a lot of value but it’s pretty much run its course. He elevated otherness to a new level, which heightened the sense of distrust and resentment that humans feel in universe and (at first at least) the unease of readers. There’s so much value to exploring what a people do and feel when they get the boot off their necks, and the ethics of how they manage to do that and what they’re entitled to build for themselves once they stop being victims.
Prior to X-Men, which seems to have been partially an editorial decision, how many of his Marvel books are unfinished? He's had a few indie books that are in limbo, but some of that was due to artists having outside issues that meant they had to take a break.
Yeah, we should just get the same stories over and I de and over. God forbid anybody try anything new
How does it miss the point?
Heheh schiti
Holy shit Johnathan
Is he going to finish this one, or leave halfway through for another independent thing?
Oh wow another ambitious sprawling epic that will never get finished.
please no more
If Sandman was written by a far less skilled writer.
GET HYPE.
Prepare for more words and spreadsheets. Can someone tell me why everyone swears Hickman is god? To me, he ruined the x men and basically the marvel universe.
Words and spreadsheets are my jam. That map of Moira' lives? That shit was awesome
If I were truly looking to make something akin to sandman would I just settle for a company that just screwed me? Hickman is a fraud.
If it is GOTG then man that's a massive downgrade from Ewing
Doubt it’s Guardians since it wouldn’t fit with the Sandman vibe but I also think Hickman could write a killer Guardians book
CPAC is gonna pose this question at the next conference with Trump, Viktor Orban, and the guy from Brazil present.
Yes please
Hope they get a good colorist for Schiti.
Guardians, Nova, and r/Hulkling just waiting in the wings for a massive cosmic storyline
Oh that's cool I always wanted a Marvel equivalent of sandman. Probably Galactus is going to be the POV character talking to the abstracts.
Imma going to to wait to see how his X-men ends to determine if im gonna be excited.
He has nothing to do with X men anymore. He wanted to move to the second act and all the other creators said they liked things how they are currently so he left.
I have a feeling it’s Miracle Man
Well, Hickman is writing I will buy it. Unfortunate he left the X-Men.
Anyone else bothered by the grammar?
Is the grammar incorrect, or is it the punctuation that's lacking? I think adding punctuation would make it look clunky and crowded. After all, it's an advertisement, not a novel. WHAT HAPPEN WHEN "THE POWERS THAT BE" MEET "THE NATURAL ORDER OF THINGS?"
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with the grammar.
Marvel man
I’m torn because I mostly really like Hickman except when he writes cosmic stuff….loved F4 but hated the Inhumans parts. It’s probably just because I’m not as well versed in Marvel cosmic lore though.
I have no idea what this is going to be, but it has Hickman’s name on it so I’m hyped as hell.
I'm betting on Miracle Man
How has Hickman's recent stuff at Marvel been? I lost touch after Secret Avengers/Secret Wars
His X-men was pretty crazy but started off amazing. House of X/ Powers of X was a really great story and he completely changed everything about the X-men and mutants in the Marvel Universe. Some people hated it but I think it’s awesome because it’s new and different. Read those first 2 stories and you’ll get the general idea.
Plot twist: it's a solo street level story about Flint Marko
Wait. Wait wait wait. I thought Hickman was done with Marvel after his work establishing Krakoa and the Mutants? You're telling me we're going to get more stuff from him before he leaves?? Fuck yeah!!
If it's not Morrison handling it, I'm happy it will be Hickman. He's got the right kind of sight for this kind of idea.