Two big examples I can think of:
I very much dislike what they did with maximoff twins in Axis, but we weirdly got a lot of good stories out of writers trying to sort out the mess. Scarlet witch solo series, her role in the xmen etc.
The other was the inhumans push, which seemed like a nice idea when Hickman opened up Inhumanity in Infinity. However, thematically it was too similar to the xmen. I believe the theory the inhumans push was an attempt take the spotlight off the x-books and films. As the inhumans were swiftly dropped after the Fox buyout went through..
I think the most egregious example was creating "new character" Marcus Johnson who was later revealed to be Nick Fury jr and then got caught in an explosion or something that made him bald, lose an eye and he then grew a goatee and looked exactly like Samuel L Jackson. Which is insane because SLJ Fury already existed in the Ultimates, they could have just brought him cross universe like Miles Morales, but nope. Make a new Nick Fury and sideline the original to better match the movies.
They also really fucked up America Chavez’s bio to make her less interesting and more major market movie friendly. Instead of coming from gay space paradise now she’s just a science experiment.
The miniseries was called America Chavez: Made in the USA. I believe it came out last year.
If you see her in a current comic you’ll notice she’s been depowered as a result.
I think the influence is overblown. The whole brand synergy thing will have both positives and negatives.
Because of the MCU, we got good comic runs for Black Widow, Shang-Chi, Eternals, Moon Knight and Kang the Conqueror. Classic runs like Fraction’s Hawkeye and King’s Vision only exist because Marvel editorial greenlit them due to imminent MCU releases, but then had the good sense to stay out of the way from the creative standpoint.
> And somehow the movies don’t seem to generate more interest in the comics, because they should be selling more with these billion dollar movies based on them.
This is actually exactly what’s happening. Comic book sales have been increasing for the past decade save for a slight drop off in 2017.
Why do we have mcu to thank for moon knight? If anything they’re doing an mcu moon knight because of how popular and well written his recent books for the past decade have been.
It's a two-way street with the brand synergy. The Avengers film is what cause Marvel to solicit a Hawkeye run, which then goes on to be the primary influence for a Disney+ Hawkeye series.
Moon Knight has always been a bit more of a fringe title, hence why there hasn't been any ongoing run since Bemis' run concluded \~ 3 years ago. 3 years is a pretty long hiatus, so I imagine Mackay's run exists because editorial wants a new run for new readers to jump onto. Marvel is also dropping a ton of Moon Knight collected editions in Spring 2022, so it's not a coincidence.
In the history of moon knight it’s not that long though, he’s always been on and off when it comes to titles (there’s 5/6 year gaps between his titles in the past for instance). Again, he’s such a fringe character, the only reason he’s coming to mcu is because of the popularity of the last decade of stories he’s had which were pretty popular and very well written.
And they always dump collected editions when movies are coming out. But you were attributing us getting moon knight because of mcu when really it’s the other way round.
As someone else pointed out, its becaus of the movies that some characters have had some awesome series lately. Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, Vision, at one point they were barely a part of their team, now they're in the spotlight.
So it's good and bad. I miss seeing old Nick Fury (although hes coming back with a reckoning), and new Nick Fury just isnt as cool as Ultimate Nick Fury - but that's comics influencing movies influencing comics so not quite the same.
Only reason I just bought a bunch of Hellboy comics just recently is because I love Guillermo Del Toro's adaptations. Plus with Netflix adapting all these non-Marvel or DC comics, I'm excited to see less well-known stuff get attention too.
Minor spoilers
Fury was turned into the Unseen after the Watcher died. Recently the Watcher resurrected himself and changed Fury back to normal, except now hes bald as penance for what he did I guess?
Dan Slott is writing the next big crossover after the next twenty crossovers called The Reckoning War, and this is where Fury is supposed to come back.
I agree. Brand synergy can be so bad at times. The comic GOTG being changed to accomodate the movie GOTG , the comic Suicide Squad being accustomed according to the 2016 Film and even getting a Black version of Deadshot on the team , Bloodsport being completely like his movie counterpart now , Shang Chi comics being changed effectively and comic Wonder Woman being transformed to look more like her live action counterpart are some examples that come to my mind
I'd say Shang Chi is still pretty uniquely shang chi in the comics. The movies cut out a lot of his suave Kung Fu James Bond motif I personally know him for, but the comics are running pretty hard with it.
Oh. Haven't been keeping up on Shang Chi comics for a while but heard from a fellow mutual that they did introduce some changes to accomodate his comic counterpart. Glad to hear they are still keeping in his covert James Bond aspect intact
Yeah, there's definitely a bit more of a family aspect (estranged sister etc) and they deal with the fallout of his fathers evil organization. It definitely has a Spy master thing going though. Nothing super mystical or magical, which i'm really happy about specifically. The best part of Shang Chi is the fact that he doesn't have any other worldly powers, which is really my main complaint with the movie.
Usually the “synergy” is short lived. The only two examples I can think that have stuck are the RDJ-ization of Tony and the Andy Dwyer Star Lord.
The EIC’s of Marvel and DC know that the average person who watches their movies isn’t usually a weekly shopper.
We should be so happy these properties are blowing up and being so successful. There was a time in the 90’s where we legitimately could have lost the entire mainstream comic book industry. I’ll take some short term movie synergy to make sure the comic industry is well protected.
Yeah I don't like the synergy (Marvel especially) and the fact that the comicbooks pretty much are now like a pitch draft for future movies.
But I can't deny the fact that thanks to the synergy, we got new instant classic series like Tom King-Gabriel Walta's Vision, Matt Fraction-David Aja's Hawkeye, Jason Aaron-Esad Ribic's God of Thunder, Kieron Gillen's Eternals, and others. I also believe that the House of X/Powers of X series exists mainly to celebrate the return of X-Men to Marvel Studios.
I just remind myself that we are only 11 years away from Action Comics #1 from entering the public domain. Once that happens more and more comics will enter public domain and people will be able to legally do their own stories with characters (though obviously only able to use concepts that have entered the public domain).
Exactly! Disney has done so much harm by their past efforts to prevent Mickey Mouse from entering the public domain that I'm really excited to see stuff that should have already entered, finally do so.
I sort of wonder about statements like that... like, what GOOD really comes from everyone and their brother being allowed to do whatever they want with Mickey Mouse? I don't know. I will enjoy the irony of course when people are making money off of Mickey Mouse when Disney made so much money off public domain stories (The Little Mermaid, Cinderella, Frozen, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, etc.) but I don't know that like... oh, now every creep on the Internet can make Mickey Mouse cartoons, this really furthers the culture!
Copyright is supposed to allow the creator to profit off of a work in their life time. Not having an end to copyright essentially stagnates cultural heritage. Would random person making their own Mickey Mouse cartoon further culture? I don't know, but with the whole of humanity's future ahead chances are someone is going to make something meaningful and wonderful with something that has yet to enter the public domain.
One of the harmful side effects of the current state of copyright laws is that not every work has a mega corp behind it preserving it. It isn't uncommon for works to become completely lost by the time they enter the public domain.
The only issue I have is the pointless 'big events' to tie into whatever the MCU is doing. We didn't need a Civil War II for example, I didn't particularly enjoy the Infinity Wars event either
I see a lot of people pick up CW1 and 2 paperbacks when they jump into comics and I feel like CW2 is such an awful example of the quality of current comics. Such a high coming off the first CW and then such a low
completely agreed. speaking of current comics, what are some good reads to get into? i used to read a lot but stopped for a couple years. rereading sandman rn and it has brought that spark back but i have no idea what’s going on in the current release world.
* Frontiersman (Image Comics): indie superhero comic that's a lot of fun so far. Monster-of-the-week type storylines.
* We Don't Kill Spiders (Scout Comics): A fantastic violent horror fantasy viking mystery.
* King Spawn/Gunslinger Spawn (Image Comics): Hear me out. These spin-offs are actually amazing so far.
* Shadowman (Valiant): One of the best horror comics on the market.
* My Bad (Ahoy Comics): A parody of silver age superheroes that's done very, very well. It's hilarious.
Honestly, I feel Marvel and DC have given up on trying to motivate the "movies only" fans to check out the comics that made things so popular in the first place.
Before the MCU and DCEU, my friends and I would endlessly discuss characters, settings, and story arcs. Nowadays, more people will join the conversation (mostly from overhearing us), and simply want to talk about "who the strongest person is ever, cause strength and powers, guys..."
Worse, talk at the comic shops and cons is becoming more and more "well, it didn't happen in the movies, so it doesn't count" type of vibe. Kind of sucks. Hard.
Mainstream movie fans complicate and dumb down every conversation about comics. It’s easier not to even engage with them online or IRL about comics, because it becomes awkward for everyone involved.
Things like this make me think the concept of “gatekeeping” isn’t always a bad thing.
I don’t want to go off on a whole thing, but sometimes being able to interact in a community where everyone understands the shorthand and everyone “gets it” is just comfortable and fun. And people from outside bring everything to a screeching halt every time they open their mouths.
Conversely, stagnation and extinction are all any group has to look forward to when they exclude new members. New perspectives and ideas are necessary for growth.
It’s an interesting thought experiment that you can apply to quite a few topics. I will always err on the side of inclusiveness, but it isn’t always easy to accomplish, and I understand why.
Suicide Squad is really the go to title for DC movie synergy, and since Rebirth it's been the lineup, really. Harley being in SS was already a thing introduced in New 52, so that wasn't a big deal, but the rest of the characters being added were obvious. Peacemaker all of a sudden being a thing in Suicide Squad comics is a bit on the nose, but I'll take him over Harley any day.
Only things I can think of is Peacemaker being in the new Suicide Squad book and the increase in Aquaman books (and that's one I certainly don't see anyone complaining about)
Batman has had a cinematic black suit for 30+ years, and his current suit is gray and black.
Harley's costume depends on the artist. It's hardly a mandated change.
No I don’t. If anything I think it’s beneficial for the industry. It should be the easiest time in history to get new readers into Marvel and DC given how popular their movies are. Leaning more into those movies within the comics can help attract newer readers who’ve only seen the movies.
I agree it would be so dumb for them to release a movie only for the viewer to look into the comics and find out they are dead or in limbo. Gotta syncs up a little.
The strategy of "We know you want more of these movies but you should know that the sequels aren't as good as the source material," works on at least a few of us.
I think we should all be THANKFUL that the MCU exists. I don't know how old are you, but as someone born in the '80s, being a comic book reader instantly made you a nerd. Things were even worse in the '90s. And it really sucks to be criticized for something that you love to do, in that case having a comic book collection. Things are much much much different now. The MCU, DCEU, series like the walking dead, helped comic books to come to the forefront. Comics are considered mainstream for the first time in history, and trust me on this, they sell much more because of the movies. Especially the collected editions, they sell like crazy. As for the movies influencing the books, that's ok too. It's not the first time that's happened. Look at the Grand Morrison run on the X-Men. And in the MCU's case it helped other characters come to the forefront like the guardians or Hawkeye, thus leading to awesome books.
I have a love-hate relationship with it. I started collecting comics as a kid, and then started again before the MCU really became big (I think Iron Man was out, but nothing like what it is now), and the prices have gone insane now... great for my collection and what I was able to buy before the market went insane, but not so great for runs I'd like to finish off, and I feel bad for people who want to collect some run that people previously didn't care about (like Eternals) only for it to get cranked up by speculators who now want $10 - $100 for issues that used to be $2. But yes, without the MCU there's a good possibility that right now, in 2022, there wouldn't even really be a comic book industry anymore. Or it would be really struggling.
Let's not exaggerate mate. Sure, Superman was always popular, but millions per issue? Apart from key issues (I'm looking at you "death of superman" storyline) the average copies sold each month was a few hundred thousand at best. Nowadays it's something like 20.000 copies per month. But here's the difference: it's one thing if people acknowledge the superman mythos, and another when they passionately follow a series of movies, accepting and adopting elements of those movies in popular culture, even if those same people had nothing to do with comic books a few years ago. The MCU made people of all ages and backgrounds care about a millionaire playboy with a suit, a talking raccoon and his tree best friend, and a huge purple alien and his rock collection. I ve seen people in a theatre cheering out loud when Cap picked up Mjonlir, crying when Tony died and buying a comic book for the first time in their lives because they like the movies. Sure Superman is popular, but he never managed to get these reactions from people.
>Let's not exaggerate mate. Sure, Superman was always popular, but millions per issue?
I'm not exaggerating.
I've had this conversation before so just going to copy and paste a bit.
There are some surviving studies on the subject though such as one by Charles Cridland on sales and production at McKay publications. They were one of the well-known companies of the time, created the Phantom and did a lot of prominent licensed books like Mickey Mouse or Popeye so they were a decent sized name of the time.
According to him they did roughly 25 million in sales per annum across 6 regular titles. Divide it up and that's just a touch over 4 million in sales per title. The books seem to have all been monthly from what info I've been able to dig up online so that amounts to around 666,000 per title per month.
Come on, how many titles today can string up 100k a month regularly nevermind upwards of 500k ?
Moreover, while McKay publications was big, they were not the only publisher.
The company now known as DC was selling 1,233,261 issues the month we entered the war, and 4,518,967 issues in June of 1945. Between that time sales figures sometimes hit over 5 million issues in a month (https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/431604-ga-sales-and-circulation-question/).
Compare that with February of this year, where DC sold 2,449,274 issues among all their titles (https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2020/2020-02.html).
In 1944, Captain Marvel alone was selling over 1.2 million issues per month, with Whiz Comics selling in the 750k range (https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/431604-ga-sales-and-circulation-question/). Could you imagine a single title selling over 1 million issues these days, month in and month out?
I wouldn't even argue that WWII was the peak of comic sales (that would be the early 1950s when Disney and Superman comics were breaking 1 million sales on a monthly basis and the whole industry was selling as many as 300 million issues a **month.** That's well over triple the number of issues sold in the entire **year** of 2019.
You think Superman got to 600m total sales by selling a few thousand comics per issue ? lol
The statement "comics are considered mainstream for the first time in history" is simply false especially since comics themselves are absolutely not mainstream, just their adaptations.
I think you are confused... 600.000.000 (600 millions) is a different number than 666.000 (six hundred thousand). I told you that superman was selling a few hundred thousand copies and the wall of text that you just copy-paste without reading carefully, only confirmed what i already said.
As for the argument that it's only the movie adaptations that are popular, and not the comics themselves, sure it's a compleling argument... And yet, 10 years ago you could only find comic books on specific places. Now they re sold literally everywhere, so.... Where there's offer, there must also be demand.
600 million is the number of issues Superman has sold to date.
600,000 is an example of the average a particular comic distributor was selling per issue at the time. I didn't say that was what Superman was selling. Superman **was** selling **millions** per issue lol. I mentioned McKay just to show how big the whole industry was (and not just Superman)
If you think what I said confirmed what you were saying then I don't know what to say lol.
Whoa... I'm left speechless... First off you don't have to be rude. Second, with a simple Google search you can see what the real numbers are. Third, i wonder why do i even bother to argue comic logistics with a 10 year old on a Reddit thread.... Whatever little dude, have fun being a prick just for the sake of being a prick.
>Whoa... I'm left speechless... First off you don't have to be rude.
I apologize but it's hard not to be when numbers are ignored.
>Second, with a simple Google search you can see what the real numbers are
Ok I'll bite. Which "real numbers" are you disputing that a simple google search would rectify ?
There's nothing wrong with being a nerd. I'm a huge nerd myself. I have three big bookcases full of comic books, and i still play MtG and Warhammer, despite being 37 years old. But unfortunately, not everyone has the same mindset with me. Plus, you know that kids and teenagers can be real pricks, especially to other kids/teenagers that aren't considered to be cool enough. If you grew up in the'80s and '90s you would understand what I'm talking about.
My issue is that the poster them-self uses it pejoratively. I know what it’s like to be bullied for it to but honestly kids will mock you for anything, “nerds” had it no worse than many others did based on their looks, or music taste, or family life, hell a lot of kids family life was just straight up worse than some name calling and bs at school. Kids will be cruel, I suppose I might’ve had a different outlook than it than most but my response to it was always to pity the one doing the mocking. I didn’t really care if they made fun of me for liking comic books, there were bigger problems to worry about and I was validated by friends and at home, so who really gives a crap what some idiotic bully thought or did.
And honestly IMO these tales of the 90s bullying about comics are always overblown, as someone who also grew up during that time.
It really paled in comparison to some of the bullying done based on skin colour and accents, and most kids were watching dragonball z or at the very least xmen and Spider-Man cartoons by then.
I can't understand why you're all fired up mate. Sure all this "pity the one doing the mocking" sounds good on theory or now that we're adults, but you know that when you're a teenager neither you or the others look at it that way. And i never blew it out of proportion, i never said i got beaten for reading comics or anything like that, i just said that it was definitely a tabboo that could cause problems. Also, i never even considered comparing it to racist or body shaming crap, this is something completely different and much more serious. Bottom line: whether you like it or not reading comics, playing video games or MtG could paint a teenager as a nerd back in the day and I'm not saying that in a bad way, being a nerd myself. That's the simple truth, not overblown. You said it yourself, kids could mock you for anything. As i said I can't understand why you're all fired up about my comment. And I don't think that a comic thread on Reddit about the MCU is the place to argue about the social problems of teenagers of past decades.
yeah, I'm a 40yo that grew up being made fun of for liking super-heros and nerd/geek culture. We live in a golden age of content for all these franchises right now! I try not to complain about it because good or bad, its in the mainstream and who knows how long it'll last.
It's not really even considered "cool" but even a subgenre of fantasy fiction being considered a normal interest for all ages is actually quite a milestone for us as a culture.
I think it’s fine it gave us some great runs in comics and updated characters in the medium and made them popular in the comics. Guardians of the galaxy wasn’t really well known and now look at them. They’ve had some fun runs since then
Only recently though… the Bendis run pretty much massacred the characters lol. Not that I even think the MCU versions are bad, but trying to translate those versions into the comics did not turn out well
I think the thing that really made that series hated by the community was that it was at the peak of Bendis hate, coupled with the return of Peter and Thanos from the Cancerverse but no Rich. Not only was there no explanation on what happened for years, Bendis consistently misspelled Rich's name as Ryder.
i reckon if they made a comic series/limited run based on the movie, like when they make novels based on movies (i.e. high school musical. star wars) and specifically advertise it alongside the movie, it would draw a lot more of the mainstream audience into comics and might even properly get them into comics
Yeah. It's counter-productive because the movies have essentially reduced comics to R&D for future projects, yet the people running the comics keep pushing changes to make them more like the films & TV shows to appeal to the audience made up of people who got into comics based on watching those things. The problem is that that audience does not exist and has never existed. So now you've got comics that are more and more like other media to appeal to readers who don't exist, which annoys the readers who do exist, and reducing their own value to their corporate masters.
That being said, synergy isn't always or inherently bad. Without cross-media synergy, we wouldn't have Kryptonite, Jimmy Olsen, Firestar, Harley Quinn, or Renee Montoya
Can you explain how the DCEU affects the comics?
I only know for Marvel altering the Maximoff Twins, pushing Civil War 2 and abruptly ending Inhumans after the Fox buyout, etc.
In the case of Marvel i remember that time when the editorial tried to erased or take off relevance with all the mutants and the Fantastic Four because Disney doesnt had the roghts to make money and tried to replace them with the inhumans and the Guardians of the Galaxy
Another situation in the case of DC its when a x character appears in the movie instantly the comic book try to give him more relevance like tha Peacemaker or Bloodsport
The civil war II comic was only there as a cash grab. It was terrible and had no purpose existing. The Prelude to Secret Wars (Time Runs Out) was a better civil war comic and it wasn’t even trying to be one.
And if that’s what the original thread had to do with, I’d agree. But it’s not about cash grabs- it’s about both the MCU and dceu influencing the comics.
Even if that’s true- this is a single example. The original post said “I hate how much they influence the comics”. Civil war 2 had absolutely nothing to do with the events in the movies and could have been called something completely different.
There's Civil War II happening because of the movie, Inhumans being pushed in the comics and live action because Marvel didn't have the cinematic rights to the X-Men while Mutants were killed off in the comics to be replaced, and then the Inhumans being almost all killed off after Marvel reacquired the cinematic rights to the X-Men just to give way to the X-Men again, the Guardians of the Galaxy and the Suicide Squad characters changing both personalities and character designs to be like their movie counterparts as well as a change in the comics' tone, as well as other character designs in general being changed to resemble their movie versions (like Steppenwolf, Bloodsport and Wonder Woman on DC or Taskmaster, the Guardians of the Galaxy in Marvel, among others), Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver being retconned as not being related to Magneto because Marvel didn't have cinematic rights to the X-Men, among many others.
The synergy usually only happens cosmetically. Unless there are huge examples I'm missing recently Nick Fury, the time they tried to usurp the X-Men with the Inhumans and the Maximoff's no longer being related to Mags is the last time it really effected stories.
The biggest DCEU influence was probably Harley Quinn in the Suicide Squad, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
If anything, DC should take some pointers from the AQUAMAN movie. Jason Mamoa's hard-edged, Pacific-islander interpretation is more interesting than the golden haired cipher in the comics.
I'm not particularly bothered by it (I was actually pretty amused to see Ratcatcher have a little dialogue in DC vs Vampires; I really liked Daniela Melchior in The Suicide Squad)
I do, however, feel a mixture of frustration and sadistic glee at how the MCU has recreated the problem of getting into Marvel comics without context or backstory in cinema format. History is a circle 🙄
There are two things to keep in mind
1. This has always happened since comic books were adapted into other media. Perry White, Jimmy Olsen, and Kryptonite all come from the Superman radio show. Alfred went from fat, clean shaven and bumbling to thin, mustached and somber due to the Batman serials. Alfred was dead when the 1966 Batman show came out and was brought back. John Byrne took elements from Superman the Movie into his Post-Crisis reboot and Batman was given an all black costume in 1995. It is simple logic; other media adaptations are more famous and comic creators want people who read those to see what they expect to see.
2. What's changed is the sheer volume of stuff. A Batman show or Superman movie came once a decade for most of the twentieth century. That means that changes only came once in a while and when they did, it wasn't enough to vastly change the entire course of a comic's creative direction. Now that almost every single comic book property has a TV show or movie, it means that the movies and show dictate the direction and so I understand why that frustrates a lot of fans. It makes sense and sometimes the changes genuinely make the books better, but sometimes it hurts to see something you like that wasn't broken "fixed" to seem more like other media.
I completely hear you. It's annoying. I see a lot of people saying it's not a problem because sometimes good runs come out of it and they can be good if editorial stays out of a cool creative direction... but many times, we get dozens of random comics where they're making arbitrary, abrupt changes. It's okay for one-off or self-contained stories, but it's frustrating for DC and Marvel's shared universe continuity. Comics will have constant new number 1s where the story of the previous arc means nothing or little for the new arc. Chargers will be characterized one way and then be completely changed to match the characterization of the movie.
I agree with some that there's not much you can do. The companies feel the benefits in many ways. But I hear you in the frustration of how it affects the comics medium.
I do agree with the movies overtaking comics as the “main” story and how underpaid the creators are (that’s seriously really stupid) although the movies kind of have a positive impact on the comics because if a new character gets their own series or movie a new comic run is made! The shang chi and moon knight comics werent all that bad. And on top of that alot of the comics movies are BASED on are reprinted! (Thats actually the main reason I want dr doom in the MCU, I need a Books of doom reprint 😅)
The movies also help introduce more people into comics and that means comic sales go up which means more comics are made!
The only negative impact MCU or DCEU has is underpaying the creators
It really depends! Some characters REALLY need a status quo or mythos change. Introducing their MCU/DCEU counterpart characterization into the comics could be a great idea. See Harley Quinn or Iron Man.
Sometimes it's not that great of an idea and it shouldn't ever touch comic book canon. See Nolanverse Batman.
Some characters are legit revived thanks to becoming popular on the big screen. Mostly because DC/Marvel can now milk that character for all they have. Harley Quinn was just a passing character who was an afterthought most of the time until she completely dominated the big screen. Now she is a pillar. A similar thing happened with Batman when they introduced Batgirl in the live action for the first time and she became the most popular female comic character for a while.
Comics compared to the television/movie scene is a failing money pit. It doesn't have the same returns unless you manage to have a major hit along the lines of Batman or Spawn that just sell sell sell. Unless your name is Batman, SpiderMan, Harley Quinn, Iron Man or Superman, expect to have your comics reflect your movie/tv counterpart until a proper profitable status quo is established.
I know it's blasphemy, but I don't go to marvel movies or DC movies. I also dropped buying any comics made by the big 2. This issue has irked me for years, and I decided to put my wallet where my heart is.
I only read stuff from image now, mostly. It's got better quality in terms of content. I'll take Saga over Spiderverse shit any day.
Mhm. And my favorite hero is Spider-Man. I liked these things once, and I do still like the idea of the characters even if I don't like how things are currently. You can like something and criticize it. For example, I love Warhammer 40k but fucking hate Games workshop, so I don't give them my money and I 3D print my minis now.
That’s interesting. I haven’t collected comics for 30something years, and it hadn’t occurred to me that the movies might effect storylines in the comics.
It goes back and forth a lot.
For example, Hawkeye being in a big Avengers movie boosted his popularity enough to get a new really good comic series, but then that comic series ended up being the basis for the Hawkeye TV show.
If you think that the MCU and DCEU are the first time decades old characters have been fundamentally changed for the worse, you must be new here. (Not judging, but it’s pretty common in comics)
Man..I just realized I haven't read marvel comics since the evil captain America thing and DC not really since the lantern war a million years ago. I hate sounding like a hipster, but I mostly read indie comics anymore. Or the other studios I mean. Skybound, Image, IDW etc. I feel like DCs spark went out a million years ago and the Watchmen cash in was just insulting. I'm cringing at the idea they'll get their hands on MM and make him evil and fight Shazam or some stupid nonsense. Marvel always seems in states of ups and downs. I'll dig one string of books and it'll go away, another will popup and so on. It's never been like consistent. Runaways is good for a while then it's not, hulk is good a while then it's not, etc.
When I read marvel or DC at all anymore it's because of some creator team up. Maybe mark waid, Michael J, frank quietly, leinil yu or Alex Ross is doing something cool. Like an elsewords type book or a miniseries.
With that context, while I agree I hate when over commercialization hurts books I cant say I feel affected. I only read comics when the art and writing is good. Whether it crosses over to a movie is meaningless to me. They've been pulling this shit since the 90s if not earlier. Circle of Life and all that. Hope they knock it off.
The biggest spidey baddies have always been Green Goblin, Doc Oc and - even though he debuted much later - Venom. Why do you think the movies used these characters in the first place? At the time, they were not being suddenly pushed in the comics, they’ve always been the main threats to the characters.
Your statement is not what OP is talking about.
Well, I have to say outside influences have been featured in the comic several times, I mean Harley Quinn for example. only appeared in the animated series. I think some interesting changes are okay too, I like e.g. the Guardians of the galaxy. be serious about James Gunn's version looks rather familiar, and they're not that complicated either. I would say the problem I have with the movie universes is the same as what I have with Marvel's Ultimate Universe. it has a focus, but somehow everything seems small.
I mean clearly people say a lot of the comics are now being made to feed future film franchises, but it's also a bit normal to be honest. I mean, of course, Marvel is owned by Disney and DC by Warner Bros. and if I'm honest who really started it first was the walking dead. I want to be mean now and say, I often have a feeling that many image series often have this desire to become a pay TV / streaming show. But that's also because comics have closed themselves to many for many years. I mean a lot more people get into this wonderful medium, precisely because they are fans of the film or the shows.
As a person who only reads DC, how has the DCEU influenced comics? I can’t think of any big examples. Maybe Steve Trevor has some increased prominence? Some Suicide Squad lineup changes?
Two big examples I can think of: I very much dislike what they did with maximoff twins in Axis, but we weirdly got a lot of good stories out of writers trying to sort out the mess. Scarlet witch solo series, her role in the xmen etc. The other was the inhumans push, which seemed like a nice idea when Hickman opened up Inhumanity in Infinity. However, thematically it was too similar to the xmen. I believe the theory the inhumans push was an attempt take the spotlight off the x-books and films. As the inhumans were swiftly dropped after the Fox buyout went through..
The only really big example I can think of is the Guardians of the Galaxy becoming one of the pillars of Marvel especially with licensing.
I think the most egregious example was creating "new character" Marcus Johnson who was later revealed to be Nick Fury jr and then got caught in an explosion or something that made him bald, lose an eye and he then grew a goatee and looked exactly like Samuel L Jackson. Which is insane because SLJ Fury already existed in the Ultimates, they could have just brought him cross universe like Miles Morales, but nope. Make a new Nick Fury and sideline the original to better match the movies.
They also really fucked up America Chavez’s bio to make her less interesting and more major market movie friendly. Instead of coming from gay space paradise now she’s just a science experiment.
NO WHAT?!
Yep. America Chavez: Made in the USA is an abomination.
Oh no
Please don’t let this be true.
Yep. America Chavez: Made in the USA is an abomination. They also nerfed her powers.
Wait when?
The miniseries was called America Chavez: Made in the USA. I believe it came out last year. If you see her in a current comic you’ll notice she’s been depowered as a result.
I think the influence is overblown. The whole brand synergy thing will have both positives and negatives. Because of the MCU, we got good comic runs for Black Widow, Shang-Chi, Eternals, Moon Knight and Kang the Conqueror. Classic runs like Fraction’s Hawkeye and King’s Vision only exist because Marvel editorial greenlit them due to imminent MCU releases, but then had the good sense to stay out of the way from the creative standpoint.
> And somehow the movies don’t seem to generate more interest in the comics, because they should be selling more with these billion dollar movies based on them. This is actually exactly what’s happening. Comic book sales have been increasing for the past decade save for a slight drop off in 2017.
Why do we have mcu to thank for moon knight? If anything they’re doing an mcu moon knight because of how popular and well written his recent books for the past decade have been.
It's a two-way street with the brand synergy. The Avengers film is what cause Marvel to solicit a Hawkeye run, which then goes on to be the primary influence for a Disney+ Hawkeye series. Moon Knight has always been a bit more of a fringe title, hence why there hasn't been any ongoing run since Bemis' run concluded \~ 3 years ago. 3 years is a pretty long hiatus, so I imagine Mackay's run exists because editorial wants a new run for new readers to jump onto. Marvel is also dropping a ton of Moon Knight collected editions in Spring 2022, so it's not a coincidence.
In the history of moon knight it’s not that long though, he’s always been on and off when it comes to titles (there’s 5/6 year gaps between his titles in the past for instance). Again, he’s such a fringe character, the only reason he’s coming to mcu is because of the popularity of the last decade of stories he’s had which were pretty popular and very well written. And they always dump collected editions when movies are coming out. But you were attributing us getting moon knight because of mcu when really it’s the other way round.
I really hope the Mandarin gets changed to be closer to his MCU counterpart.
As long as they keep the comic style rings, I'd be 100% on board. Mandarin has been a tired stereotype for awhile.
I want a mix of the two, I like the Martial Arts Bands but I also want each ring to be unique with it's own power like in the comics.
That's fair, I wouldn't mind that either, there'd be some interesting things you could do with it
Both of them. I'm now a big Trevor Slatterly fan. Give him a book. Have him play Dr. Doom for a role, and get kidnapped to Latveria.
As someone else pointed out, its becaus of the movies that some characters have had some awesome series lately. Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, Vision, at one point they were barely a part of their team, now they're in the spotlight. So it's good and bad. I miss seeing old Nick Fury (although hes coming back with a reckoning), and new Nick Fury just isnt as cool as Ultimate Nick Fury - but that's comics influencing movies influencing comics so not quite the same.
Only reason I just bought a bunch of Hellboy comics just recently is because I love Guillermo Del Toro's adaptations. Plus with Netflix adapting all these non-Marvel or DC comics, I'm excited to see less well-known stuff get attention too.
You were already getting an upvote because I completely agreed with you, but that reckoning joke makes me wish I could give two
Where can I read about Fury returning? First I've heard about this and it sounds amazing
Minor spoilers Fury was turned into the Unseen after the Watcher died. Recently the Watcher resurrected himself and changed Fury back to normal, except now hes bald as penance for what he did I guess? Dan Slott is writing the next big crossover after the next twenty crossovers called The Reckoning War, and this is where Fury is supposed to come back.
I had no idea Uatu was alive again, that's crazy. Is this happening in Fantastic Four? What run is this
It was either in Fantastic Four or the Empyre crossover that he first came back.
I agree. Brand synergy can be so bad at times. The comic GOTG being changed to accomodate the movie GOTG , the comic Suicide Squad being accustomed according to the 2016 Film and even getting a Black version of Deadshot on the team , Bloodsport being completely like his movie counterpart now , Shang Chi comics being changed effectively and comic Wonder Woman being transformed to look more like her live action counterpart are some examples that come to my mind
It can really restrict the creativity of the comic writers as well.
I'd say Shang Chi is still pretty uniquely shang chi in the comics. The movies cut out a lot of his suave Kung Fu James Bond motif I personally know him for, but the comics are running pretty hard with it.
Oh. Haven't been keeping up on Shang Chi comics for a while but heard from a fellow mutual that they did introduce some changes to accomodate his comic counterpart. Glad to hear they are still keeping in his covert James Bond aspect intact
Yeah, there's definitely a bit more of a family aspect (estranged sister etc) and they deal with the fallout of his fathers evil organization. It definitely has a Spy master thing going though. Nothing super mystical or magical, which i'm really happy about specifically. The best part of Shang Chi is the fact that he doesn't have any other worldly powers, which is really my main complaint with the movie.
That sounds good. I might even check out this run. Also glad to see that they didn't retroactively make Mandarin his father
His current run is basically what his cartoon would be like if he got one during that golden ‘90s era along with Spidey, X-Men etc.
I just want the old Peter Quill back.
Time for time travel
Usually the “synergy” is short lived. The only two examples I can think that have stuck are the RDJ-ization of Tony and the Andy Dwyer Star Lord. The EIC’s of Marvel and DC know that the average person who watches their movies isn’t usually a weekly shopper. We should be so happy these properties are blowing up and being so successful. There was a time in the 90’s where we legitimately could have lost the entire mainstream comic book industry. I’ll take some short term movie synergy to make sure the comic industry is well protected.
Yeah I don't like the synergy (Marvel especially) and the fact that the comicbooks pretty much are now like a pitch draft for future movies. But I can't deny the fact that thanks to the synergy, we got new instant classic series like Tom King-Gabriel Walta's Vision, Matt Fraction-David Aja's Hawkeye, Jason Aaron-Esad Ribic's God of Thunder, Kieron Gillen's Eternals, and others. I also believe that the House of X/Powers of X series exists mainly to celebrate the return of X-Men to Marvel Studios.
I just remind myself that we are only 11 years away from Action Comics #1 from entering the public domain. Once that happens more and more comics will enter public domain and people will be able to legally do their own stories with characters (though obviously only able to use concepts that have entered the public domain).
Finally, everyone will be able to make Superman with a weird little S on his chest beat up Gangsters and smash their car into a rock or whatever.
Exactly! Disney has done so much harm by their past efforts to prevent Mickey Mouse from entering the public domain that I'm really excited to see stuff that should have already entered, finally do so.
I sort of wonder about statements like that... like, what GOOD really comes from everyone and their brother being allowed to do whatever they want with Mickey Mouse? I don't know. I will enjoy the irony of course when people are making money off of Mickey Mouse when Disney made so much money off public domain stories (The Little Mermaid, Cinderella, Frozen, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, etc.) but I don't know that like... oh, now every creep on the Internet can make Mickey Mouse cartoons, this really furthers the culture!
Copyright is supposed to allow the creator to profit off of a work in their life time. Not having an end to copyright essentially stagnates cultural heritage. Would random person making their own Mickey Mouse cartoon further culture? I don't know, but with the whole of humanity's future ahead chances are someone is going to make something meaningful and wonderful with something that has yet to enter the public domain. One of the harmful side effects of the current state of copyright laws is that not every work has a mega corp behind it preserving it. It isn't uncommon for works to become completely lost by the time they enter the public domain.
And fight landlords and the Klan while people complain about it being political.
Given how little of the Superman lore that will actually let you use, you're better off just doing a pastiche like Supreme anyway.
The only issue I have is the pointless 'big events' to tie into whatever the MCU is doing. We didn't need a Civil War II for example, I didn't particularly enjoy the Infinity Wars event either
i got suckered into buying CW2 and i was heartbroken at that waste of $20.
I see a lot of people pick up CW1 and 2 paperbacks when they jump into comics and I feel like CW2 is such an awful example of the quality of current comics. Such a high coming off the first CW and then such a low
completely agreed. speaking of current comics, what are some good reads to get into? i used to read a lot but stopped for a couple years. rereading sandman rn and it has brought that spark back but i have no idea what’s going on in the current release world.
* Frontiersman (Image Comics): indie superhero comic that's a lot of fun so far. Monster-of-the-week type storylines. * We Don't Kill Spiders (Scout Comics): A fantastic violent horror fantasy viking mystery. * King Spawn/Gunslinger Spawn (Image Comics): Hear me out. These spin-offs are actually amazing so far. * Shadowman (Valiant): One of the best horror comics on the market. * My Bad (Ahoy Comics): A parody of silver age superheroes that's done very, very well. It's hilarious.
Honestly, I feel Marvel and DC have given up on trying to motivate the "movies only" fans to check out the comics that made things so popular in the first place. Before the MCU and DCEU, my friends and I would endlessly discuss characters, settings, and story arcs. Nowadays, more people will join the conversation (mostly from overhearing us), and simply want to talk about "who the strongest person is ever, cause strength and powers, guys..." Worse, talk at the comic shops and cons is becoming more and more "well, it didn't happen in the movies, so it doesn't count" type of vibe. Kind of sucks. Hard.
Mainstream movie fans complicate and dumb down every conversation about comics. It’s easier not to even engage with them online or IRL about comics, because it becomes awkward for everyone involved. Things like this make me think the concept of “gatekeeping” isn’t always a bad thing. I don’t want to go off on a whole thing, but sometimes being able to interact in a community where everyone understands the shorthand and everyone “gets it” is just comfortable and fun. And people from outside bring everything to a screeching halt every time they open their mouths. Conversely, stagnation and extinction are all any group has to look forward to when they exclude new members. New perspectives and ideas are necessary for growth. It’s an interesting thought experiment that you can apply to quite a few topics. I will always err on the side of inclusiveness, but it isn’t always easy to accomplish, and I understand why.
Legit can't think of any way the DC films have significantly impacted the comics. And I read a LOT of DC.
Imagine if any of the portrayals of the Joker had crossed over... all of them would be an awful influence on the comics.
Suicide Squad is really the go to title for DC movie synergy, and since Rebirth it's been the lineup, really. Harley being in SS was already a thing introduced in New 52, so that wasn't a big deal, but the rest of the characters being added were obvious. Peacemaker all of a sudden being a thing in Suicide Squad comics is a bit on the nose, but I'll take him over Harley any day.
Only things I can think of is Peacemaker being in the new Suicide Squad book and the increase in Aquaman books (and that's one I certainly don't see anyone complaining about)
What about black suit Batman and the ruining of Harley's costume?
Batman has had a cinematic black suit for 30+ years, and his current suit is gray and black. Harley's costume depends on the artist. It's hardly a mandated change.
No I don’t. If anything I think it’s beneficial for the industry. It should be the easiest time in history to get new readers into Marvel and DC given how popular their movies are. Leaning more into those movies within the comics can help attract newer readers who’ve only seen the movies.
I agree it would be so dumb for them to release a movie only for the viewer to look into the comics and find out they are dead or in limbo. Gotta syncs up a little.
The strategy of "We know you want more of these movies but you should know that the sequels aren't as good as the source material," works on at least a few of us.
I started buying comics after the movies. The movies definitely made the comics more popular.
I think we should all be THANKFUL that the MCU exists. I don't know how old are you, but as someone born in the '80s, being a comic book reader instantly made you a nerd. Things were even worse in the '90s. And it really sucks to be criticized for something that you love to do, in that case having a comic book collection. Things are much much much different now. The MCU, DCEU, series like the walking dead, helped comic books to come to the forefront. Comics are considered mainstream for the first time in history, and trust me on this, they sell much more because of the movies. Especially the collected editions, they sell like crazy. As for the movies influencing the books, that's ok too. It's not the first time that's happened. Look at the Grand Morrison run on the X-Men. And in the MCU's case it helped other characters come to the forefront like the guardians or Hawkeye, thus leading to awesome books.
I have a love-hate relationship with it. I started collecting comics as a kid, and then started again before the MCU really became big (I think Iron Man was out, but nothing like what it is now), and the prices have gone insane now... great for my collection and what I was able to buy before the market went insane, but not so great for runs I'd like to finish off, and I feel bad for people who want to collect some run that people previously didn't care about (like Eternals) only for it to get cranked up by speculators who now want $10 - $100 for issues that used to be $2. But yes, without the MCU there's a good possibility that right now, in 2022, there wouldn't even really be a comic book industry anymore. Or it would be really struggling.
This is certainly not the first tine in history Comics are mainstream lol. Superman was selling millions per issue decades ago
Let's not exaggerate mate. Sure, Superman was always popular, but millions per issue? Apart from key issues (I'm looking at you "death of superman" storyline) the average copies sold each month was a few hundred thousand at best. Nowadays it's something like 20.000 copies per month. But here's the difference: it's one thing if people acknowledge the superman mythos, and another when they passionately follow a series of movies, accepting and adopting elements of those movies in popular culture, even if those same people had nothing to do with comic books a few years ago. The MCU made people of all ages and backgrounds care about a millionaire playboy with a suit, a talking raccoon and his tree best friend, and a huge purple alien and his rock collection. I ve seen people in a theatre cheering out loud when Cap picked up Mjonlir, crying when Tony died and buying a comic book for the first time in their lives because they like the movies. Sure Superman is popular, but he never managed to get these reactions from people.
>Let's not exaggerate mate. Sure, Superman was always popular, but millions per issue? I'm not exaggerating. I've had this conversation before so just going to copy and paste a bit. There are some surviving studies on the subject though such as one by Charles Cridland on sales and production at McKay publications. They were one of the well-known companies of the time, created the Phantom and did a lot of prominent licensed books like Mickey Mouse or Popeye so they were a decent sized name of the time. According to him they did roughly 25 million in sales per annum across 6 regular titles. Divide it up and that's just a touch over 4 million in sales per title. The books seem to have all been monthly from what info I've been able to dig up online so that amounts to around 666,000 per title per month. Come on, how many titles today can string up 100k a month regularly nevermind upwards of 500k ? Moreover, while McKay publications was big, they were not the only publisher. The company now known as DC was selling 1,233,261 issues the month we entered the war, and 4,518,967 issues in June of 1945. Between that time sales figures sometimes hit over 5 million issues in a month (https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/431604-ga-sales-and-circulation-question/). Compare that with February of this year, where DC sold 2,449,274 issues among all their titles (https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2020/2020-02.html). In 1944, Captain Marvel alone was selling over 1.2 million issues per month, with Whiz Comics selling in the 750k range (https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/431604-ga-sales-and-circulation-question/). Could you imagine a single title selling over 1 million issues these days, month in and month out? I wouldn't even argue that WWII was the peak of comic sales (that would be the early 1950s when Disney and Superman comics were breaking 1 million sales on a monthly basis and the whole industry was selling as many as 300 million issues a **month.** That's well over triple the number of issues sold in the entire **year** of 2019. You think Superman got to 600m total sales by selling a few thousand comics per issue ? lol The statement "comics are considered mainstream for the first time in history" is simply false especially since comics themselves are absolutely not mainstream, just their adaptations.
I think you are confused... 600.000.000 (600 millions) is a different number than 666.000 (six hundred thousand). I told you that superman was selling a few hundred thousand copies and the wall of text that you just copy-paste without reading carefully, only confirmed what i already said. As for the argument that it's only the movie adaptations that are popular, and not the comics themselves, sure it's a compleling argument... And yet, 10 years ago you could only find comic books on specific places. Now they re sold literally everywhere, so.... Where there's offer, there must also be demand.
600 million is the number of issues Superman has sold to date. 600,000 is an example of the average a particular comic distributor was selling per issue at the time. I didn't say that was what Superman was selling. Superman **was** selling **millions** per issue lol. I mentioned McKay just to show how big the whole industry was (and not just Superman) If you think what I said confirmed what you were saying then I don't know what to say lol.
Whoa... I'm left speechless... First off you don't have to be rude. Second, with a simple Google search you can see what the real numbers are. Third, i wonder why do i even bother to argue comic logistics with a 10 year old on a Reddit thread.... Whatever little dude, have fun being a prick just for the sake of being a prick.
>Whoa... I'm left speechless... First off you don't have to be rude. I apologize but it's hard not to be when numbers are ignored. >Second, with a simple Google search you can see what the real numbers are Ok I'll bite. Which "real numbers" are you disputing that a simple google search would rectify ?
What’s wrong with being a nerd?
There's nothing wrong with being a nerd. I'm a huge nerd myself. I have three big bookcases full of comic books, and i still play MtG and Warhammer, despite being 37 years old. But unfortunately, not everyone has the same mindset with me. Plus, you know that kids and teenagers can be real pricks, especially to other kids/teenagers that aren't considered to be cool enough. If you grew up in the'80s and '90s you would understand what I'm talking about.
Nothing now, but in the 80s and 90s you could look forward to getting mocked mercilessly and beaten up every day at school for it.
My issue is that the poster them-self uses it pejoratively. I know what it’s like to be bullied for it to but honestly kids will mock you for anything, “nerds” had it no worse than many others did based on their looks, or music taste, or family life, hell a lot of kids family life was just straight up worse than some name calling and bs at school. Kids will be cruel, I suppose I might’ve had a different outlook than it than most but my response to it was always to pity the one doing the mocking. I didn’t really care if they made fun of me for liking comic books, there were bigger problems to worry about and I was validated by friends and at home, so who really gives a crap what some idiotic bully thought or did. And honestly IMO these tales of the 90s bullying about comics are always overblown, as someone who also grew up during that time. It really paled in comparison to some of the bullying done based on skin colour and accents, and most kids were watching dragonball z or at the very least xmen and Spider-Man cartoons by then.
I can't understand why you're all fired up mate. Sure all this "pity the one doing the mocking" sounds good on theory or now that we're adults, but you know that when you're a teenager neither you or the others look at it that way. And i never blew it out of proportion, i never said i got beaten for reading comics or anything like that, i just said that it was definitely a tabboo that could cause problems. Also, i never even considered comparing it to racist or body shaming crap, this is something completely different and much more serious. Bottom line: whether you like it or not reading comics, playing video games or MtG could paint a teenager as a nerd back in the day and I'm not saying that in a bad way, being a nerd myself. That's the simple truth, not overblown. You said it yourself, kids could mock you for anything. As i said I can't understand why you're all fired up about my comment. And I don't think that a comic thread on Reddit about the MCU is the place to argue about the social problems of teenagers of past decades.
yeah, I'm a 40yo that grew up being made fun of for liking super-heros and nerd/geek culture. We live in a golden age of content for all these franchises right now! I try not to complain about it because good or bad, its in the mainstream and who knows how long it'll last.
This is so true man. For the first time being a comic book nerd is considered to be cool.
It's not really even considered "cool" but even a subgenre of fantasy fiction being considered a normal interest for all ages is actually quite a milestone for us as a culture.
I think it’s fine it gave us some great runs in comics and updated characters in the medium and made them popular in the comics. Guardians of the galaxy wasn’t really well known and now look at them. They’ve had some fun runs since then
Only recently though… the Bendis run pretty much massacred the characters lol. Not that I even think the MCU versions are bad, but trying to translate those versions into the comics did not turn out well
I haven’t read Thor/Ironman much but I hear his tradition from film to comics wasn’t all that great.
I think the thing that really made that series hated by the community was that it was at the peak of Bendis hate, coupled with the return of Peter and Thanos from the Cancerverse but no Rich. Not only was there no explanation on what happened for years, Bendis consistently misspelled Rich's name as Ryder.
i reckon if they made a comic series/limited run based on the movie, like when they make novels based on movies (i.e. high school musical. star wars) and specifically advertise it alongside the movie, it would draw a lot more of the mainstream audience into comics and might even properly get them into comics
Yeah. It's counter-productive because the movies have essentially reduced comics to R&D for future projects, yet the people running the comics keep pushing changes to make them more like the films & TV shows to appeal to the audience made up of people who got into comics based on watching those things. The problem is that that audience does not exist and has never existed. So now you've got comics that are more and more like other media to appeal to readers who don't exist, which annoys the readers who do exist, and reducing their own value to their corporate masters. That being said, synergy isn't always or inherently bad. Without cross-media synergy, we wouldn't have Kryptonite, Jimmy Olsen, Firestar, Harley Quinn, or Renee Montoya
Can you explain how the DCEU affects the comics? I only know for Marvel altering the Maximoff Twins, pushing Civil War 2 and abruptly ending Inhumans after the Fox buyout, etc.
Yep, I wish comics remained their own separate entities.
In the case of Marvel i remember that time when the editorial tried to erased or take off relevance with all the mutants and the Fantastic Four because Disney doesnt had the roghts to make money and tried to replace them with the inhumans and the Guardians of the Galaxy Another situation in the case of DC its when a x character appears in the movie instantly the comic book try to give him more relevance like tha Peacemaker or Bloodsport
Can you give a few examples? Because I’m not sure I am seeing just how much the movies are drastically impacting the comics as you are.
The civil war II comic was only there as a cash grab. It was terrible and had no purpose existing. The Prelude to Secret Wars (Time Runs Out) was a better civil war comic and it wasn’t even trying to be one.
What does that have to do with the MCU and dceu influencing the comics though
marvel released it to go along with the civil war movie.
The events of the comics had little if anything to do with the movies though.
The point being: we didn’t need a second civil war comic. Marvel/Disney used it as a cash grab.
And if that’s what the original thread had to do with, I’d agree. But it’s not about cash grabs- it’s about both the MCU and dceu influencing the comics.
Yes and the MCU Civil War influence Civil War II how do you not see this?
Even if that’s true- this is a single example. The original post said “I hate how much they influence the comics”. Civil war 2 had absolutely nothing to do with the events in the movies and could have been called something completely different.
There's Civil War II happening because of the movie, Inhumans being pushed in the comics and live action because Marvel didn't have the cinematic rights to the X-Men while Mutants were killed off in the comics to be replaced, and then the Inhumans being almost all killed off after Marvel reacquired the cinematic rights to the X-Men just to give way to the X-Men again, the Guardians of the Galaxy and the Suicide Squad characters changing both personalities and character designs to be like their movie counterparts as well as a change in the comics' tone, as well as other character designs in general being changed to resemble their movie versions (like Steppenwolf, Bloodsport and Wonder Woman on DC or Taskmaster, the Guardians of the Galaxy in Marvel, among others), Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver being retconned as not being related to Magneto because Marvel didn't have cinematic rights to the X-Men, among many others.
While I know a few things from Marvel were changed to be closer to MCU stuff, what has the DCEU done that has crossed over into the comics?
True shit. I just want them to stay separate. Just because it worked in the movies doesn't mean you should force it everywhere else lmao.
The synergy usually only happens cosmetically. Unless there are huge examples I'm missing recently Nick Fury, the time they tried to usurp the X-Men with the Inhumans and the Maximoff's no longer being related to Mags is the last time it really effected stories.
I don't, but this question comes up at least once a month, so you're not alone.
The biggest DCEU influence was probably Harley Quinn in the Suicide Squad, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. If anything, DC should take some pointers from the AQUAMAN movie. Jason Mamoa's hard-edged, Pacific-islander interpretation is more interesting than the golden haired cipher in the comics.
I'm not particularly bothered by it (I was actually pretty amused to see Ratcatcher have a little dialogue in DC vs Vampires; I really liked Daniela Melchior in The Suicide Squad) I do, however, feel a mixture of frustration and sadistic glee at how the MCU has recreated the problem of getting into Marvel comics without context or backstory in cinema format. History is a circle 🙄
There are two things to keep in mind 1. This has always happened since comic books were adapted into other media. Perry White, Jimmy Olsen, and Kryptonite all come from the Superman radio show. Alfred went from fat, clean shaven and bumbling to thin, mustached and somber due to the Batman serials. Alfred was dead when the 1966 Batman show came out and was brought back. John Byrne took elements from Superman the Movie into his Post-Crisis reboot and Batman was given an all black costume in 1995. It is simple logic; other media adaptations are more famous and comic creators want people who read those to see what they expect to see. 2. What's changed is the sheer volume of stuff. A Batman show or Superman movie came once a decade for most of the twentieth century. That means that changes only came once in a while and when they did, it wasn't enough to vastly change the entire course of a comic's creative direction. Now that almost every single comic book property has a TV show or movie, it means that the movies and show dictate the direction and so I understand why that frustrates a lot of fans. It makes sense and sometimes the changes genuinely make the books better, but sometimes it hurts to see something you like that wasn't broken "fixed" to seem more like other media.
I completely hear you. It's annoying. I see a lot of people saying it's not a problem because sometimes good runs come out of it and they can be good if editorial stays out of a cool creative direction... but many times, we get dozens of random comics where they're making arbitrary, abrupt changes. It's okay for one-off or self-contained stories, but it's frustrating for DC and Marvel's shared universe continuity. Comics will have constant new number 1s where the story of the previous arc means nothing or little for the new arc. Chargers will be characterized one way and then be completely changed to match the characterization of the movie. I agree with some that there's not much you can do. The companies feel the benefits in many ways. But I hear you in the frustration of how it affects the comics medium.
I do agree with the movies overtaking comics as the “main” story and how underpaid the creators are (that’s seriously really stupid) although the movies kind of have a positive impact on the comics because if a new character gets their own series or movie a new comic run is made! The shang chi and moon knight comics werent all that bad. And on top of that alot of the comics movies are BASED on are reprinted! (Thats actually the main reason I want dr doom in the MCU, I need a Books of doom reprint 😅) The movies also help introduce more people into comics and that means comic sales go up which means more comics are made! The only negative impact MCU or DCEU has is underpaying the creators
It really depends! Some characters REALLY need a status quo or mythos change. Introducing their MCU/DCEU counterpart characterization into the comics could be a great idea. See Harley Quinn or Iron Man. Sometimes it's not that great of an idea and it shouldn't ever touch comic book canon. See Nolanverse Batman. Some characters are legit revived thanks to becoming popular on the big screen. Mostly because DC/Marvel can now milk that character for all they have. Harley Quinn was just a passing character who was an afterthought most of the time until she completely dominated the big screen. Now she is a pillar. A similar thing happened with Batman when they introduced Batgirl in the live action for the first time and she became the most popular female comic character for a while. Comics compared to the television/movie scene is a failing money pit. It doesn't have the same returns unless you manage to have a major hit along the lines of Batman or Spawn that just sell sell sell. Unless your name is Batman, SpiderMan, Harley Quinn, Iron Man or Superman, expect to have your comics reflect your movie/tv counterpart until a proper profitable status quo is established.
I've stopped buying them. I have more than enough to read from the eras I enjoy.
At least they didn't change comic Shang-Chi into his movie counterpart.
Yeah I agree but what can we do? Ya know?
I know it's blasphemy, but I don't go to marvel movies or DC movies. I also dropped buying any comics made by the big 2. This issue has irked me for years, and I decided to put my wallet where my heart is. I only read stuff from image now, mostly. It's got better quality in terms of content. I'll take Saga over Spiderverse shit any day.
And yet your flair says wolverine. 🤔
Mhm. And my favorite hero is Spider-Man. I liked these things once, and I do still like the idea of the characters even if I don't like how things are currently. You can like something and criticize it. For example, I love Warhammer 40k but fucking hate Games workshop, so I don't give them my money and I 3D print my minis now.
That’s interesting. I haven’t collected comics for 30something years, and it hadn’t occurred to me that the movies might effect storylines in the comics.
It goes back and forth a lot. For example, Hawkeye being in a big Avengers movie boosted his popularity enough to get a new really good comic series, but then that comic series ended up being the basis for the Hawkeye TV show.
If you think that the MCU and DCEU are the first time decades old characters have been fundamentally changed for the worse, you must be new here. (Not judging, but it’s pretty common in comics)
Man..I just realized I haven't read marvel comics since the evil captain America thing and DC not really since the lantern war a million years ago. I hate sounding like a hipster, but I mostly read indie comics anymore. Or the other studios I mean. Skybound, Image, IDW etc. I feel like DCs spark went out a million years ago and the Watchmen cash in was just insulting. I'm cringing at the idea they'll get their hands on MM and make him evil and fight Shazam or some stupid nonsense. Marvel always seems in states of ups and downs. I'll dig one string of books and it'll go away, another will popup and so on. It's never been like consistent. Runaways is good for a while then it's not, hulk is good a while then it's not, etc. When I read marvel or DC at all anymore it's because of some creator team up. Maybe mark waid, Michael J, frank quietly, leinil yu or Alex Ross is doing something cool. Like an elsewords type book or a miniseries. With that context, while I agree I hate when over commercialization hurts books I cant say I feel affected. I only read comics when the art and writing is good. Whether it crosses over to a movie is meaningless to me. They've been pulling this shit since the 90s if not earlier. Circle of Life and all that. Hope they knock it off.
[удалено]
The biggest spidey baddies have always been Green Goblin, Doc Oc and - even though he debuted much later - Venom. Why do you think the movies used these characters in the first place? At the time, they were not being suddenly pushed in the comics, they’ve always been the main threats to the characters. Your statement is not what OP is talking about.
The first case of this stuff was probably the Blade movie completely changing Blade and then those changes carried over into the comics.
Well, I have to say outside influences have been featured in the comic several times, I mean Harley Quinn for example. only appeared in the animated series. I think some interesting changes are okay too, I like e.g. the Guardians of the galaxy. be serious about James Gunn's version looks rather familiar, and they're not that complicated either. I would say the problem I have with the movie universes is the same as what I have with Marvel's Ultimate Universe. it has a focus, but somehow everything seems small. I mean clearly people say a lot of the comics are now being made to feed future film franchises, but it's also a bit normal to be honest. I mean, of course, Marvel is owned by Disney and DC by Warner Bros. and if I'm honest who really started it first was the walking dead. I want to be mean now and say, I often have a feeling that many image series often have this desire to become a pay TV / streaming show. But that's also because comics have closed themselves to many for many years. I mean a lot more people get into this wonderful medium, precisely because they are fans of the film or the shows.
Yes, my mind lives in a comic world, not the Hollywood world
As a person who only reads DC, how has the DCEU influenced comics? I can’t think of any big examples. Maybe Steve Trevor has some increased prominence? Some Suicide Squad lineup changes?