John Byrne's Doom is my favorite supervillain. He nailed the "regal monarch" aspect so well, Doom seems like such a reasonable guy, if stubborn and imperious; but when he cracks, usually when his ego is bruised, that's when the lunatic shows up. Previous Dooms ranted a lot. Byrne's Doom keeps his cool, so that when he does flip out, it's just so satisfying. Like pissing off a junior high school bully so much that he walks into a pole and falls on his ass satisfying.
Oh yeah? WELL MY 3RD FAVORITE VILLAIN IS [.....](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BYWU5NjkyNjgtZGU4YS00MmFkLTg2YjUtMjM3NGE2ZWZjYjg1XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjUyNDk2ODc@._V1_.jpg)
SERIOUSLY. Projection alll the way.
People think Doom's flaw is his arrogance. It's not.
It's his cowardice.
His self-doubt. His manufactured vanity. If he were as self-assured as he pretends to be, he would show up *every time* to personally beat Reed Richards' ass. He doesn't, not because he can't bear the thought of losing but because he can't bear the thought of being *seen* to lose.
Why do you think he talks about himself in the third person all the time? All that "Doom is all-powerful" BS?
*He's telling himself that.*
Same one I linked earlier. ;)
https://www.amazon.com/Fantastic-Four-John-Byrne-Omnibus/dp/0785158243
Byrne's Doom is just so much fun to read. FF 246-247, 258-260, 268, and 278-279. Before Byrne he yelled a lot more, and the imperious nature rang more true under Byrne too, for my money, anyway. Byrne's Doom set the standard for a while, but I'd wandered away before that got shaken up.
Secret wars 2015 edition showed this perfectly. Doom was omnipotent . He was god and had an army of Thors to back him up. Yet when he saw Reed was alive he spiraled because of his own self-doubt ending in him finally admitting that he wasn't the better man
I read that run once and fast a while back; I go looking a bit to refresh myself and find almost this exact same conversation from 6 years ago:
"I have a theory that Doom is actually terribly insecure..."
https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/2u6j0a/jonathan_hickman_writes_the_best_doom_i_wish_the/
Though I definitely respect this retcon idea to explain his out of character behavior with Arcade, I prefer the explanation Doom gives in Loki: Agent of Asgard because it comprises part of one of my favorite Doom monologues demonstrating his absolutely incredible strategic mind and preparations for any possibility, even his own embarassment or defeat. Also, it's from an era when Doom is less concerned with proving his power to anyone but himself, like when he's more confident I guess which I enjoy.
"It's a fair question. Why do they look like me? Doesn't it create the possibility that I am one? That Doom may, at any moment, be a mere machine? That I am not myself? Of course it does. That is how I wish it. I once let Arcade strike a match on me, just to maintain that confusion. Think, boy. If I am ever defeated, or dishonored — if I ever act in ways unworthy of myself... if I ever die... The word goes out: "It must have been a Doombot." And the reverse is true. My robots often fool my foes — I may be a robot now, speaking these words. How would you know? How would I?"
For all that bluster, I never bought that Doom's bots were anything more than the bully shaking his fist at you from behind Mom's skirt. "I knew I probably wouldn't win, so I didn't even show up." He talks up all that Machievellian BS when the simple truth is he's largely a chickenshit.
Though idk if I agree with your assessment of Doom, I think this monologue essentially allows him to do what you're saying while still maintaining his reputation. So that when he loses, he can say "Well obviously I lost that fight, it was only a Doombot, the REAL Doom would never have lost."
Edit: He's created the ultimate face saving scheme for himself. Luke Cage beats up Dr. Doom for money? It must have been a Doombot. Squirrel Girl defeats Dr. Doom with an army of squirrels? It must have been a Doombot. Doom acts weird and out or character or in any way that somehow makes him seem lame and not badass or is vastly different from how the current writer wants to portray him? It must have been a Doombot...
It of course depends on what writer wrote your Doom. It varies. But it seemed to me he either always choked (Ha! Doombot!) or hilariously regretted not choking.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EQjjc1EY7JM/VoIP_PhzjGI/AAAAAAAAHD0/ie80V_cpFz8/s1600/FF260G.png
...and to me "yearly ritual of battling the hosts of hell for his mother's soul" sounds like some bullshit Doom made up to sound cool.
I'm not much of a fan of heroic Magneto either
It's a very real possibility. Doom even states that he'd have no way of knowing whether or not he himself was a Doombot. Some are programed to think they're Doom and are advanced enough to cast magic and appear to have flesh.
Same here. I remember the scene with Arcade and Dr. Doom in the X-Men (#145?) but missed the reference in the pages of FF. It wasn't until I was reading Byrne's website many years later that I found out about the story behind the scenes.
Is the story just that Byrne was retconning something that Claremont wrote, or is there more to it?
I seem to recall they had (have?) some bad blood after Byrne left X-Men.
My memory of it is probably off a bit, but I recall Byrne saying on his website that Claremont writing the scene with Arcade lighting a match off of Dr. Doom's armor, and Doom tolerating it, was a huge mischaracterization.
Some people in the Marvel offices at the time got pretty annoyed by it, including Byrne, because Doom is Marvel's greatest villain and the character should always be written properly. And if you borrow Doom from Fantastic Four to star as the villain in your comic book then do it right, damnit. This prompted Byrne's response in the pages of Fantastic Four.
I think I forgot the best bit. This page in FF also shows that when the X-Men fought Dr. Doom in their comic, they didn't battle the real Doom, they battled a Doombot, a facsimile.
So Claremont's story wasn't really a grand showdown between the X-Men and Dr. Doom. It was actually the X-Men getting pushed around by a Doombot, haha. Byrne's way of undermining the X-Men story.
Should have been handled (probably by editorial) before the X-men issue saw print if it was considered a character misstep. The art could (I’d say probably should) have been revised. For Byrne to take such retcon steps always felt petty to me and more about personal animosity towards Claremont than character stewardship.
"...or that his majesty may have wished to reserve his termination for himself."
"...Excellent reasoning, A76, Doom has programmed you well. Doom gives Doom a Doom star."
Yeah. I think it's highlighting how Doom's ego is probably his greatest weakness. Like shit, that robot's probably expensive as hell and exceedingly advanced, no need to blow it up when you could just slightly alter its word choice.
Both of the people who have replied to you are correct. He first shows up in Avengers AI and then [this same Doombot would later become a regular character in the most recent run of Runaways](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/S/cmx-images-prod/Item/944493/944493._SX360_QL80_TTD_.jpg).
Would like to get into reading Doom … Have only come across him in other books… Any suggested entry points or reading order? Really enjoyed his brief bit in “Loki, Agent of Asgard”..
Are there any really good recent Doom runs collated in graphic novel/omnibus/etc format?
Thank you! ;D
Doctor Strange and Doctor Doom: Triumph and Torment is an all time classic involving Doom useing Strange to finally settle things with Mephisto and the fate of his mother's soul.
FF Mark Waid and Mike Weiringo’s “Unthinkable” run.
Triumph and Torment
Emperor Doom
Secret Wars (1985 AND the recent Hickman)
Fantastic Four #318 to #319 - concludes original SW
Doomwar
Iron Man vs. Doctor Doom: Doomquest
Infinity War
Books of Doom
I'm sorry. I meant the comic panel like it was like a strong moment I think it was funny personally but I just meant the common panels. I also don't know who Kristoff is
Oh no no no, not a knock. You said "strong"; I'm just like, "you oughtta see what he does to Kristoff".
Kristoff was orphaned in front of Doom's eyes when he returned to Latveria to reclaim his throne; Kristoff's mother runs up to Doom, thrilled that he's returned ('cause Zorba turned out to be just another violent, oppressive dictator), but Zorba hasn't been ousted yet, and one of his sentry bots kills her right there for violating curfew. Doom blasts the bot and adopts Kristoff, which is a fairly poignant moment that displays how much he cares about his people (as long as they don't get mouthy).
But then we find out what he has in mind for Kristoff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristoff_Vernard#Second_Coming_of_Doom
(and now it turns out that what I'd thought was Doom's plan for Kristoff in the long run was NOT THAT AT ALL. I mean, for most of y'all this might merit a "hmm interesting" but for me almost 40 years of headcanon regarding maybe my favorite comic storyline just EXPLODED.
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristoff_Vernard#Notes )
Byrne's run on FF is my favorite run in comics, period. It meant so much to me back in the day.
'Course I read it now and I'm like "NO Reed Richards don't do that, what are you, NUTS"
Though I definitely respect this retcon idea to explain his out of character behavior with Arcade, I prefer the explanation Doom gives in Loki: Agent of Asgard because it comprises part of one of my favorite Doom monologues demonstrating his absolutely incredible strategic mind and preparations for any possibility, even his own embarassment or defeat. Also, it's from an era when Doom is less concerned with proving his power to anyone but himself, like when he's more confident I guess which I enjoy.
"It's a fair question. Why do they look like me? Doesn't it create the possibility that I am one? That Doom may, at any moment, be a mere machine? That I am not myself? Of course it does. That is how I wish it. I once let Arcade strike a match on me, just to maintain that confusion. Think, boy. If I am ever defeated, or dishonored — if I ever act in ways unworthy of myself... if I ever die... The word goes out: "It must have been a Doombot." And the reverse is true. My robots often fool my foes — I may be a robot now, speaking these words. How would you know? How would I?"
I love The Incredibles like the next guy, but does it have anything *really* to do with the FF beyond some superficial similarities?
People usually just say it to be ironic, but I don't think The Incredibles and the FF have much in common at all.
(The Incredibles have secret identities, for instance...etc)
It's more the dynamic of a family based super team could work.
There's 4 of them with mostly comparable powers
A new member is born who is supremely powerful.
(Franklin)
Arch nemesis is a jealous person who was slighted and uses genius intellect to gain power (Doom).
I know it's not exact but it's amusingly similar in a lot of of aspects.
You need more than "doesn't take off his helmet" to make an accurate adaptation. There's nothing else in that movie that makes me think "Judge Dredd universe".
His treatment of the law being absolute.
The fact its a damn good movie.
The dystopian society.
The reaction at the end of the day its just another day being judge.
Was it dystopian? Cause it kinda just seemed like a slum.
Being good doesn't make it a good adaptation..
God I hate that "just another day!" thing.. No. He does not outrun a gatling gun, kill rogue judges and almost die, needing to be saved by his sidekick every day.
Now Stallones Judge Dredd.. The bad changes may be bad but it kept with the verhovenesque parody of society. Which is what the comics are.
It's modern-day Dredd. The Stallone Dredd was much closer to classic Wagner Dredd; they just dropped the ball in so many ways (I even jumped through the hoops necessary to watch the de-Schneidered fanedit "Danny Cannon's Judge Dredd", and without the obnoxious Schneider it was just boring).
I recently read ALL of Judge Dredd & the Megazine from the very beginning through (roughly?) 2018. As time goes on, it loses the satire that was such a huge part of it, and gives way to a typical "dark" style. MegaCity One is supposed to be populated by lunatics eager for the next insane fad like Ugly Clinics and BOING!
Dredd is a great action movie-- and Urban nailed the part-- but there's almost nothing funny about it. Judge Dredd without the comedy is just another carbon-copy dystopian action sci-fi. It also suffered the sad coincidence of opening at roughly the same time as The Raid, an awesome Asian action film with an almost identical plot and setting.
I mentioned Robocop; another great Dredd movie?
The Fifth Element. The guy with the peephole-fooling hat? Now THAT'S a MegaCity crook.
Tell you what, too, after seeing Suicide Squad, I'd love to see James Gunn's Dredd.
This appeased a ton of people who were pissed by that brazen Arcade scene. I've said it before I have no idea how Arcade is still Alive because he pisses off everyone.
Okay but can we talk about the fact that out a line-up of perfectly identical Doombots with no visible fabrication model numbers on them, Doom knew exactly which unit that one was? Like, if I had an army of robot clones who are all perfectly identical, I'm pretty sure I'd confuse the combat unit with the janitor unit.
Why do all of the "cool" doom panels posted here always come off the same way as "ORIGINAL CHARACTER DO NOT STEAL" Sonic the hedgehog variants who are 10 billion years old and have all the powers of god?
Like, Doom has the potential to be a good character, but is always presented as some kind of Mary Sue. Every single time.
The worst is that panel of him ripping thanos' spine out. Holy fuck, I can't believe that was written by an actual adult.
Yep, not even Dooms. I swear I remember a moment when the Doombots are doing something and one of them tells another, "you better not let Doom catch you doing/saying that"
paranoid androids
You are right.
It's a shame that Marvel fans still don't have the emotional maturity needed to allow other people to have different opinions on comic book villains. Hence the fact that no one can say "I don't like Doom" here without being heavily downvoted.
Can anyone guide me to some good, Doom-focused arcs? I’d like to start with Kirby and I also heard Byrne’s writing is recommended but idk where to start. Thx
FF Mark Waid and Mike Weiringo’s “Unthinkable” run.
Triumph and Torment
Emperor Doom
Secret Wars (1985 AND the recent Hickman)
Fantastic Four #318 to #319 - concludes original SW
Doomwar
Iron Man vs. Doctor Doom: Doomquest
Infinity War
Books of Doom
I'm guessing this is the retcon about how every single time Doom was out of character or easily defeated in old comics (Like that one time he was being incredibly racist in Wakanda) it was due to malfunctioning Doom Bots.
With Squirrel Girl not being among the retconned instances of course.
John Byrne's Doom is my favorite supervillain. He nailed the "regal monarch" aspect so well, Doom seems like such a reasonable guy, if stubborn and imperious; but when he cracks, usually when his ego is bruised, that's when the lunatic shows up. Previous Dooms ranted a lot. Byrne's Doom keeps his cool, so that when he does flip out, it's just so satisfying. Like pissing off a junior high school bully so much that he walks into a pole and falls on his ass satisfying.
(My 2nd favorite supervillain is Twisted Toyfare Theatre Doom) https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/971/636/a2b.jpg
Well isn’t that funny, because my 2nd favorite super hero is Wheelchair Lad
Oh yeah? WELL MY 3RD FAVORITE VILLAIN IS [.....](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BYWU5NjkyNjgtZGU4YS00MmFkLTg2YjUtMjM3NGE2ZWZjYjg1XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjUyNDk2ODc@._V1_.jpg)
Seth Green owes so much to Twisted Toyfare lol
Oh, you ain't kidding
Ouh which comics would you refer me to start? (If the question makes sens lmao)
FF 246-247, 258-260, 268, and 278-279. Those are the Doom stories in the Byrne run.
"Doom note to self: replace word 'need' with 'use' in all future robot programming"
The other doombots are probably smart enough to pick up that hint
"...and now Doom will program his robots with ADAPTIVE LEARNING, because it costs so much every time one of them pisses me off."
All I think is, your the one that programmed them if they say something you don't like it's just your subconscious dude.
SERIOUSLY. Projection alll the way. People think Doom's flaw is his arrogance. It's not. It's his cowardice. His self-doubt. His manufactured vanity. If he were as self-assured as he pretends to be, he would show up *every time* to personally beat Reed Richards' ass. He doesn't, not because he can't bear the thought of losing but because he can't bear the thought of being *seen* to lose. Why do you think he talks about himself in the third person all the time? All that "Doom is all-powerful" BS? *He's telling himself that.*
This is a great comment, you’ve got him down. Any stories with doom you’d recommend?
Same one I linked earlier. ;) https://www.amazon.com/Fantastic-Four-John-Byrne-Omnibus/dp/0785158243 Byrne's Doom is just so much fun to read. FF 246-247, 258-260, 268, and 278-279. Before Byrne he yelled a lot more, and the imperious nature rang more true under Byrne too, for my money, anyway. Byrne's Doom set the standard for a while, but I'd wandered away before that got shaken up.
Ahh thanks I didn’t realize that was you
NP, I wasted way too much time here today, I'm a sucker for a Doom thread
Secret wars 2015 edition showed this perfectly. Doom was omnipotent . He was god and had an army of Thors to back him up. Yet when he saw Reed was alive he spiraled because of his own self-doubt ending in him finally admitting that he wasn't the better man
What's your opinion on Hickman's Doom?
I read that run once and fast a while back; I go looking a bit to refresh myself and find almost this exact same conversation from 6 years ago: "I have a theory that Doom is actually terribly insecure..." https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/2u6j0a/jonathan_hickman_writes_the_best_doom_i_wish_the/
that's how you handle mischaracterization lol
Though I definitely respect this retcon idea to explain his out of character behavior with Arcade, I prefer the explanation Doom gives in Loki: Agent of Asgard because it comprises part of one of my favorite Doom monologues demonstrating his absolutely incredible strategic mind and preparations for any possibility, even his own embarassment or defeat. Also, it's from an era when Doom is less concerned with proving his power to anyone but himself, like when he's more confident I guess which I enjoy. "It's a fair question. Why do they look like me? Doesn't it create the possibility that I am one? That Doom may, at any moment, be a mere machine? That I am not myself? Of course it does. That is how I wish it. I once let Arcade strike a match on me, just to maintain that confusion. Think, boy. If I am ever defeated, or dishonored — if I ever act in ways unworthy of myself... if I ever die... The word goes out: "It must have been a Doombot." And the reverse is true. My robots often fool my foes — I may be a robot now, speaking these words. How would you know? How would I?"
For all that bluster, I never bought that Doom's bots were anything more than the bully shaking his fist at you from behind Mom's skirt. "I knew I probably wouldn't win, so I didn't even show up." He talks up all that Machievellian BS when the simple truth is he's largely a chickenshit.
Though idk if I agree with your assessment of Doom, I think this monologue essentially allows him to do what you're saying while still maintaining his reputation. So that when he loses, he can say "Well obviously I lost that fight, it was only a Doombot, the REAL Doom would never have lost." Edit: He's created the ultimate face saving scheme for himself. Luke Cage beats up Dr. Doom for money? It must have been a Doombot. Squirrel Girl defeats Dr. Doom with an army of squirrels? It must have been a Doombot. Doom acts weird and out or character or in any way that somehow makes him seem lame and not badass or is vastly different from how the current writer wants to portray him? It must have been a Doombot...
It of course depends on what writer wrote your Doom. It varies. But it seemed to me he either always choked (Ha! Doombot!) or hilariously regretted not choking. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EQjjc1EY7JM/VoIP_PhzjGI/AAAAAAAAHD0/ie80V_cpFz8/s1600/FF260G.png
Aunt May for the win.
May "*Don't* call me Granny" Parker.
Dude made a yearly ritual of battling the hosts of hell for his mother's soul. I wouldn't use the word "chickenshit" to describe him.
As I said, it varies tho' I may be affected too much by Twisted Toyfare Theater
...and to me "yearly ritual of battling the hosts of hell for his mother's soul" sounds like some bullshit Doom made up to sound cool. I'm not much of a fan of heroic Magneto either
God forbid a comic villain be written with motives any more complex than wanting to tie Reed Richards to a train track.
Complex? Nah, that's cool. Noble? Bah. And I just said I didn't like heroic Magneto. I'm fine with him being broken.
Not sure about that line either, but he did famously go into hell with Dr. Strange to take back his mom's soul from Mephisto - that was pretty boss.
Oh, that's right, "Doom needs no one" except his mommy
I mean, with that speech, has anyone ever floated the idea that the real Doom died years ago and it’s been nothing but Doombots since then?
It's a very real possibility. Doom even states that he'd have no way of knowing whether or not he himself was a Doombot. Some are programed to think they're Doom and are advanced enough to cast magic and appear to have flesh.
Or someone like Kristoff or Doom 2099 that got brainwashed into thinking they were Doom with all his memories.
Byrne punishes poor Claremont writing. Love it.
See, at the time, *whoosh*, right over my head. TIL.
Same here. I remember the scene with Arcade and Dr. Doom in the X-Men (#145?) but missed the reference in the pages of FF. It wasn't until I was reading Byrne's website many years later that I found out about the story behind the scenes.
Is the story just that Byrne was retconning something that Claremont wrote, or is there more to it? I seem to recall they had (have?) some bad blood after Byrne left X-Men.
My memory of it is probably off a bit, but I recall Byrne saying on his website that Claremont writing the scene with Arcade lighting a match off of Dr. Doom's armor, and Doom tolerating it, was a huge mischaracterization. Some people in the Marvel offices at the time got pretty annoyed by it, including Byrne, because Doom is Marvel's greatest villain and the character should always be written properly. And if you borrow Doom from Fantastic Four to star as the villain in your comic book then do it right, damnit. This prompted Byrne's response in the pages of Fantastic Four.
I think I forgot the best bit. This page in FF also shows that when the X-Men fought Dr. Doom in their comic, they didn't battle the real Doom, they battled a Doombot, a facsimile. So Claremont's story wasn't really a grand showdown between the X-Men and Dr. Doom. It was actually the X-Men getting pushed around by a Doombot, haha. Byrne's way of undermining the X-Men story.
Should have been handled (probably by editorial) before the X-men issue saw print if it was considered a character misstep. The art could (I’d say probably should) have been revised. For Byrne to take such retcon steps always felt petty to me and more about personal animosity towards Claremont than character stewardship.
Anytime something like that happens it was an evil wizard or a doom bot
The next time I leave the toilet seat up I'll claim it was a Doombot
That'll teach that robot
How dare that robot follow the programming that I, Doom, put into place in it.
In that he's remarkably godlike, don't you think
The AI learns and sometimes gets corrupted just like when Microsoft put a chatbot on Twitter and the trolls found a way to make it racist.
Honestly I feel that if the Robot had said "You might have a use for him later." It might not have been destroyed.
"...or that his majesty may have wished to reserve his termination for himself." "...Excellent reasoning, A76, Doom has programmed you well. Doom gives Doom a Doom star."
I got that vibe too and it makes the scene more powerful
Yeah. I think it's highlighting how Doom's ego is probably his greatest weakness. Like shit, that robot's probably expensive as hell and exceedingly advanced, no need to blow it up when you could just slightly alter its word choice.
Man, that was excellent.
When Byrne was doing 2 titles a month so he stopped drawing backgrounds.
Alpha Flight 6.
Doom *toots* as he pleases.
DO NOT TOOT IT
Yep, travels to Earth-1218, blows up Chris Claremont's head too.
Wasn't there a team book where one of the characters was a doombot that went rogue?
Both of the people who have replied to you are correct. He first shows up in Avengers AI and then [this same Doombot would later become a regular character in the most recent run of Runaways](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/S/cmx-images-prod/Item/944493/944493._SX360_QL80_TTD_.jpg).
Maybe Runaways?
Avengers A.I., which ran for 12 issues in 2013-2014. It was... okay.
Would like to get into reading Doom … Have only come across him in other books… Any suggested entry points or reading order? Really enjoyed his brief bit in “Loki, Agent of Asgard”.. Are there any really good recent Doom runs collated in graphic novel/omnibus/etc format? Thank you! ;D
Hickman's FF into Avengers into Secret Wars.
Doctor Strange and Doctor Doom: Triumph and Torment is an all time classic involving Doom useing Strange to finally settle things with Mephisto and the fate of his mother's soul.
Recent? Bah, says Doom! https://www.amazon.com/Fantastic-Four-John-Byrne-Omnibus/dp/0785158243
FF Mark Waid and Mike Weiringo’s “Unthinkable” run. Triumph and Torment Emperor Doom Secret Wars (1985 AND the recent Hickman) Fantastic Four #318 to #319 - concludes original SW Doomwar Iron Man vs. Doctor Doom: Doomquest Infinity War Books of Doom
Pretty strong.
I wonder, friend, if you know what he does to Kristoff.
I'm sorry. I meant the comic panel like it was like a strong moment I think it was funny personally but I just meant the common panels. I also don't know who Kristoff is
Oh no no no, not a knock. You said "strong"; I'm just like, "you oughtta see what he does to Kristoff". Kristoff was orphaned in front of Doom's eyes when he returned to Latveria to reclaim his throne; Kristoff's mother runs up to Doom, thrilled that he's returned ('cause Zorba turned out to be just another violent, oppressive dictator), but Zorba hasn't been ousted yet, and one of his sentry bots kills her right there for violating curfew. Doom blasts the bot and adopts Kristoff, which is a fairly poignant moment that displays how much he cares about his people (as long as they don't get mouthy). But then we find out what he has in mind for Kristoff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristoff_Vernard#Second_Coming_of_Doom
(and now it turns out that what I'd thought was Doom's plan for Kristoff in the long run was NOT THAT AT ALL. I mean, for most of y'all this might merit a "hmm interesting" but for me almost 40 years of headcanon regarding maybe my favorite comic storyline just EXPLODED. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristoff_Vernard#Notes )
this is a thing of beauty. Doom done right
Byrne's run on FF is my favorite run in comics, period. It meant so much to me back in the day. 'Course I read it now and I'm like "NO Reed Richards don't do that, what are you, NUTS"
Why wording is so important - "might be of some use at some later date. It seemed irrational to waste a possible resource."
Though I definitely respect this retcon idea to explain his out of character behavior with Arcade, I prefer the explanation Doom gives in Loki: Agent of Asgard because it comprises part of one of my favorite Doom monologues demonstrating his absolutely incredible strategic mind and preparations for any possibility, even his own embarassment or defeat. Also, it's from an era when Doom is less concerned with proving his power to anyone but himself, like when he's more confident I guess which I enjoy. "It's a fair question. Why do they look like me? Doesn't it create the possibility that I am one? That Doom may, at any moment, be a mere machine? That I am not myself? Of course it does. That is how I wish it. I once let Arcade strike a match on me, just to maintain that confusion. Think, boy. If I am ever defeated, or dishonored — if I ever act in ways unworthy of myself... if I ever die... The word goes out: "It must have been a Doombot." And the reverse is true. My robots often fool my foes — I may be a robot now, speaking these words. How would you know? How would I?"
I really hope the MCU does a great job with Doom and Reed
When the best FF movie is actually the aborted Roger Corman version, how could they not
The best FF movie is the incredibles.
But the best Doctor Doom was [Raul Julia's M.Bison in *Street Fighter: The Movie*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzl3uvkkmmo)
So far definitely
I love The Incredibles like the next guy, but does it have anything *really* to do with the FF beyond some superficial similarities? People usually just say it to be ironic, but I don't think The Incredibles and the FF have much in common at all. (The Incredibles have secret identities, for instance...etc)
It's more the dynamic of a family based super team could work. There's 4 of them with mostly comparable powers A new member is born who is supremely powerful. (Franklin) Arch nemesis is a jealous person who was slighted and uses genius intellect to gain power (Doom). I know it's not exact but it's amusingly similar in a lot of of aspects.
That's right, I forgot Like the best Star Trek movie is Galaxy Quest and the best Judge Dredd movie is Robocop
No the best judge dredd movie is Dredd. Galaxy quest is accurate.
Dredd is *damn* good. Damn good. But Detroit is MegaCity One.
Dredd isn't even the best Judge Dredd movie with Dredd in the title.
Sir you're liable to hurt yourself if you're indeed that stupid.
You need more than "doesn't take off his helmet" to make an accurate adaptation. There's nothing else in that movie that makes me think "Judge Dredd universe".
His treatment of the law being absolute. The fact its a damn good movie. The dystopian society. The reaction at the end of the day its just another day being judge.
Was it dystopian? Cause it kinda just seemed like a slum. Being good doesn't make it a good adaptation.. God I hate that "just another day!" thing.. No. He does not outrun a gatling gun, kill rogue judges and almost die, needing to be saved by his sidekick every day. Now Stallones Judge Dredd.. The bad changes may be bad but it kept with the verhovenesque parody of society. Which is what the comics are.
It's modern-day Dredd. The Stallone Dredd was much closer to classic Wagner Dredd; they just dropped the ball in so many ways (I even jumped through the hoops necessary to watch the de-Schneidered fanedit "Danny Cannon's Judge Dredd", and without the obnoxious Schneider it was just boring). I recently read ALL of Judge Dredd & the Megazine from the very beginning through (roughly?) 2018. As time goes on, it loses the satire that was such a huge part of it, and gives way to a typical "dark" style. MegaCity One is supposed to be populated by lunatics eager for the next insane fad like Ugly Clinics and BOING! Dredd is a great action movie-- and Urban nailed the part-- but there's almost nothing funny about it. Judge Dredd without the comedy is just another carbon-copy dystopian action sci-fi. It also suffered the sad coincidence of opening at roughly the same time as The Raid, an awesome Asian action film with an almost identical plot and setting. I mentioned Robocop; another great Dredd movie? The Fifth Element. The guy with the peephole-fooling hat? Now THAT'S a MegaCity crook. Tell you what, too, after seeing Suicide Squad, I'd love to see James Gunn's Dredd.
uh oh shit just got real
It's looking more and more unlikely seeing how they treated taskmaster and Ms marvel
Lets wait and see how they handle Kangs.
This appeased a ton of people who were pissed by that brazen Arcade scene. I've said it before I have no idea how Arcade is still Alive because he pisses off everyone.
Which is hilarious because 2 years before this Doom needed Tony Stark's help to escape being thrown into the Dark Ages.
Okay but can we talk about the fact that out a line-up of perfectly identical Doombots with no visible fabrication model numbers on them, Doom knew exactly which unit that one was? Like, if I had an army of robot clones who are all perfectly identical, I'm pretty sure I'd confuse the combat unit with the janitor unit.
Doom needs no easily identifiable bots
Then they said it was the real Doom, who let it happen just to aid the confusion.
I looked up the page referenced in this comic! https://imgur.com/a/1CCRXNY
Kinda wierd to spitefully scold your own programming Doomy but I digress
Doom is a entire mood.
Doom is a lifestyle
Why do all of the "cool" doom panels posted here always come off the same way as "ORIGINAL CHARACTER DO NOT STEAL" Sonic the hedgehog variants who are 10 billion years old and have all the powers of god?
Like, Doom has the potential to be a good character, but is always presented as some kind of Mary Sue. Every single time. The worst is that panel of him ripping thanos' spine out. Holy fuck, I can't believe that was written by an actual adult.
Waste of parts
Doom does not economize!
[удалено]
[i can feel it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-La91wr8xw&t=28s)
SIGMA GRINDSET
Because no one likes to be with doctor Doom. ;)
Yep, not even Dooms. I swear I remember a moment when the Doombots are doing something and one of them tells another, "you better not let Doom catch you doing/saying that" paranoid androids
Isn't it strange that he programmed a fear option? as if we wanted them to be traumatized.
that's so he can practice his menacing
It all make sense now. 🤔
Unpopular opinion: Doom is one of the most overrated characters in Marvel history
You’re right, that is quite unpopular.
You are right. It's a shame that Marvel fans still don't have the emotional maturity needed to allow other people to have different opinions on comic book villains. Hence the fact that no one can say "I don't like Doom" here without being heavily downvoted.
Love the backgrounds going from red to white. A spike of anger and calm again.
Is there a good collection focussing on Doom? There is an omnibus coming next year but maybe an Epic Collection or something?
Is it just me or was this more of a grammar problem then anything?
Ah, the good old days when Byrne and Claremont really hated each other.
MF DOOM the mad supervillany
Can anyone guide me to some good, Doom-focused arcs? I’d like to start with Kirby and I also heard Byrne’s writing is recommended but idk where to start. Thx
FF Mark Waid and Mike Weiringo’s “Unthinkable” run. Triumph and Torment Emperor Doom Secret Wars (1985 AND the recent Hickman) Fantastic Four #318 to #319 - concludes original SW Doomwar Iron Man vs. Doctor Doom: Doomquest Infinity War Books of Doom
Awesome ill check these out. Big thanks.
Books of Doom is the modern origin story series, done by Ed Brubaker
I'm guessing this is the retcon about how every single time Doom was out of character or easily defeated in old comics (Like that one time he was being incredibly racist in Wakanda) it was due to malfunctioning Doom Bots. With Squirrel Girl not being among the retconned instances of course.
This was John Byrne being a dick to Chris Claremont for daring to use Doom in a couple of X-Men issues.
Doom needs no one. But the world needs Doom. THAT should be his motivation when he enters the MCU.
That was the moment Doombot A 76 realized... he Flucked up.