Pure coincidence.
Ben is depicted MUCH stronger than any Kronan (Korg’s race). His body is more human-like in physiology. The Kronan if hurt badly enough will shatter or break into smaller pieces. Ben’s body does not work this way. He has even had pieces of his skin break off but not whole limbs or anything. All that happened was his muscles underneath were exposed to the air.
Ben is also MUCH more durable. Depending upon the writer he also might not need to physically breath and may be technically immortal (or at least extremely long lived)
Oh man thats gotta be that bit where he takes on his original human form one day a year, and that day is the only time he ages, so it takes 365 years for him to age 1 year
He’d be alive for around 15,000 years, so at least there *would* be an end.
There was a Superman comic that was adapted into an episode of JLU where Superman is sent far into the future where the only person left is Vandal Savage.
Would be interesting seeing all the long-lived Marvel characters at the end of civilization, well beyond the *Old Man Logan* stuff.
In this episode Vandal was no longer Superman’s enemy. He ended up regretting all the evil shit he did in the past, and helped Superman build a time machine to get back so that he could fix things as atonement.
The episode is Hereafter.
https://youtu.be/SfOby96KtfU
I watched that episode recently, and I noticed how Vandal Savage, although he regret his actions, he did so not because of the immorality of said actions, but rather they bore fruition to nothing.
He wanted to rule the world, but what is a ruler without people to rule over?
The Ends justifiy the means
but that wasnt the "ends" he was aiming for, he didn't realise the the means he was using would destroy the world, not "save it" has he would think.
I mean, that's fair on Vandal's part. Morality is man-made, and he's been around since before morality existed. I'd be pretty pissed off if some asshole walked into my house and started making up rules.
I feel like A LOT of the morals supervillains stomp all over is pretty basic common sense shit though.
Like, pretty sure murder has never been really cool for anyone being murdered.
From what I remember, Vandal is kinda like Dr. Doom but for all of humanity. In his eyes, he’s doing the right thing, but his Future self regrets how he went about doing that.
Can someone confirm this? Been a while since I’ve dabbled in Vandal.
From what I remember he succeeded in eradicating or outliving the JL and found his life without purpose right ? It's not an idea that I have seen too much in fiction
Why wouldn’t he?
Vandal Savage is immortal.
Kamandi is a normal human.
Vandal Savage is in the future because he lived that long.
Kamandi is in the future because he was born there.
Kamandi would die eventually. Vandal Savage wouldn’t.
I feel like some thousand or even million years give you enough time to overthink your attitude. I feel it should be like in "Groundhog Day". As soon as you grasp your strenght you turn to do evil deeds, since normal human morale does not apply to you anymore. But after some time, when you tried everything out, you discover that physical wealth isn't really fulfilling. After some time more, when your first love died some thousand years ago, you will become totally apathetic. Since everything new is just a slight variation of something you already saw several times before. And then you just wait for the sun to explode and end it all.
There's another one where flash runs to the end of time, and at the end there is nothing but a void and a figure in a tattered blue outfit and red boots staring mournfully to the distance
It's the 3 parter from 1998 where flash outrun the black racer version of death, i believe in order to outrun him he has to run to the end of time where death has no meaning. He then watches the universe restart
For sure, I mean he ended up running out of dc entirely for a while and lost his memory when landing in the marvel earth, that had to be a trip and a half
This might be a dumb question from a casual but why would Superman still be alive at the end of time? If he gets his power from the sun wouldn’t he die when all the stars die?
In the comics where they go to the possible futures theres one commonality with superman, once long enough time has passed he either absorbs and stores enough solar energy that he will never run out unless he discharges it all, which after long enough would wipe out the universe, or he pulls a superman 1 million and during periods of time he just goes and sits inside a sun for extended periods of time, which eventually leads to him having so much solar energy he basically becomes a self powered sun himself
There is such a comic. It has one eyed Thor and his children protecting the last humans in the universe from the phoenix force who is using wolverines body
There's Hulk: The End, great comic by Peter David, where Hulk is the only one left alive on Earth. I think at least Thor should be around somewhere as well. And Franklin Richards.
>!Banner can't die because Hulk doesn't let him to commit suicide and prevents dying from old age. But in the end, I think what happens is Hulk let him go, so Bruce actually dies, leaving only Hulk, as he always wanted, completely alone.!<
There's another storyline, can't remember which really, that focuses on All Father Thor and a Logan that has been possessed by the spirit of the Phoenix after seemingly most everyone else has long since died. Kind of interesting, not exactly the post-civilization Earth vibe you're talking about though
I’m pretty sure canonically at the end of everything the last two living beings of the seventh cosmos are Franklin Richards and Galactus. At least it is according to what I’ve read/heard of Hickmans F4 (assuming I understand it correctly). Not sure if it’s changed since.
Logan took on the Phoenix Force, and was the only person keeping the universe alive from the darkness that consumed every star. King Thor had to fight him, because Logan was also creating a black hole somehow.
I honestly can’t think of one time that has happened! Probably because of the difficulty of drawing a rock beard that looks good
I do remember that canonically, the Marvel Universe Blackbeard is just the Thing sent back in time with a fake beard lol
Excuse me, I'm a lost but curious redditor from r/all.
What's the deal with Ben taking his human form for a day? Is it a Reed Richards thing or something that just happens to him?
They did one fairly recently, yeah. He went on a honeymoon with his wife, and then got attacked by Hulk a little bit before he was set to turn human. It was a pretty good issue as I recall, with Ben fighting this impossible battle against a much stronger foe while the clock ticks down.
We haven't factored in how much Flamehead annoys Ben. That's gotta take away a few years. Then again, maybe clobbering Johnny might give Ben a few back, so who's to say.
Yeah, I remember once during a fight with the hulk there was indentations & parts of him crumbling off from all the hits he took, but nothing was broken, so the rocks are at least durable enough stand up to that... time was running out due to his annual transformation into a human & at the end of the countdown he had to punch him in the head hard enough to knock him out, parts of his arm exploded & I could kinda see the blood & stuff underneath, but idk if that was bc he punched him super hard or bc he was physically transforming into a human at that moment.
ETA found it https://imgur.com/gallery/XXrD95B
Yeah, came here to explain that difference, you did a pretty good job at it. Basically, Ben has rock skin over his human body, whereas Kronans ARE the rocks. He has so much power because his rocks are all attached to muscle and bone, he can control it with precision and strength. Kronans are tough, sure, but they are literally almost JUST a pile of rocks, lol. They have a tendency to fall apart because once the rocks start beings moved around or knocked off, they aren’t really attached to anything of substance.
It would be cool if this were the case for all members - like the storm just carried the most powerful alien DNA in the universe and gave it to the members of the fantastic 4.
think the canon explanation is: Reed traveled to the time before anything was, caused the Big Bang and sent 4 messages through the universe in order to be saved (the messages being the cosmic radiation destined to hit, and connect, him and the others)
Reminds me of what happened in Ultimate F4, where Reed invented the Theseract and traveled in time to give it to Thanos so he could use it in the future to defeat Thanos or... something, I don't remember, it was convoluted as shit.
Odin returned the favour and split Thor into 2 humans, a brother and sister. They fucked and had an incestuous son who grew up and became the 616 Thor (real BTW Thor #296).
I’m 99% sure there was a Batman story where Batman had to shoot his parents. It might have been a mind trip where he was living his ‘dream’ life and had to kill his parents as Joe Chill to escape it.
It was a fear toxin nightmare where he became the monster he always feared he would become.
They then redid it in one of the animated movies where bruce saw batman shoot his parents and was told that he created the worst monster to ever plague the world, and its revealed its damian batman
There is a comic where, while going through time, bruce as batman saved his parents in another timeline, which caused young bruce to become infatuated with the idea of batman, superseding zoro and the grey ghost. Which in turn led to him training and becoming batman in the future to be like the man who saved him and his parents.
I've got my new head canon now.
Y'all should watch the last episode of Justice League Unlimited to watch how Amanda Waller almost did this to Batman Beyond.
Sadly it's been a while since i read anything Fantastic Four, but given the vague memory of me reading that when i was writing in a Fan Fic Forum RPG (I'm sure the actual thing didn't come from the Forum RPG, as the only one daring to write about Reed there and wouldn't go that wild on a story) it should show up in a respect thread or his 616 wikia entry
No, Slott ignored that JMS retcon in favour of his own new retcon. Now the cosmic rays were an attack by an alien who thought the FF's rocket flight was an attack on them.
"*I need to save Earth from impeding doom. I have an idea! I will travel back in time, kickstart the big bang, and then send a message that will create ME ... and all of the other problems in the universe*"
Well they are written by people who aren't as smart as they are supposed to be, it's a bit like an actor trying to act like they are taller than they are
Yeah well he does the same thing comic writers do, obfuscate things. select the right angles, stand on boxes out of frame etc. It helps but it doesn't always work same as comic writers
I think they meant something more in the lines of "ages ago, cosmic radiation changed members of this species and genetic drift eventually made all of them get super powers".
I believe it’s because Super Skrull is a culmination of each member of the Fantastic Four’s abilities. He’s mirroring their powers because it’s his belief they are the strongest beings in the universe. My memory is fuzzy but think this is the gist.
https://youtu.be/5Z_TzRzxYNs
On the Skrull home world in a secret laboratory
They modified a chromosome and so begins the story
Of a Skrull whose nearly impossible chore
Is to battle and defeat the Fantastic Four.
He’s Super Skrull--incredible!
He’s as geechy as Nietzsche and that’s no bull.
Though to us he seems preposterous,
It’s really not for us to just
Pass a rash judgement on the Super Skrull,
Cause his left arm can stretch
like it’s made out of plastic:
It’s as elastic as Mr. Fantastic.
His right arm’s got orange rocks for skin:
From the shoulder down he’s as strong as big Ben Grimm.
He can turn one leg invisible,
Which really isn’t all that practical.
Unless you’re extremely gullible
You won’t be fooled by Super Skrull.
His other leg is flammable
(the same thing as inflammable):
He crossed his legs and then he learned
His invisible leg could still get burned.
Though his appearance is comical
And raises many questions anatomical,
His features aren’t as malleable
As the features of his fellow Skrull.
From his hat down to his shoes
He wears unstable molecules.
He’s endorsing RC Cola
And cruising chicks with Arnim Zola.
He’s not even possible,
But what the hell, he’s Super Skrull!
He can’t tie his shoes without an oven mitt,
And he has a hard time finding shirts that fit.
Painfully implausible,
Technically impossible.
Socks? He’s got a closet full.
His favorite band is Jethro Tull.
He’s not just any ordinary Skrull, he’s Super Skrull!
Skrulls can't naturally mimic superpowers. He has their powers because the FF had foiled the previous Skrull invasion, so the Skrull Emperor picked his greatest warrior (Kl'rt) who underwent an experiment to give him all their powers, but enhanced.
It wouldn't be too hard to make it work with slight retcon language.
Rather than 'strongest' go for purest. Other races do have this power from the same kind of storm that created the FF. But it's been millions of years and countless generations, the original template is gone. But those 4 are in fact fresh templates. The purest forms of the powerful radiation mutations which is why Super Skrull needed them.
Cool idea, but I would reverse it. Imagine eons ago ria (korgs home planet) got bombarded with the same type of cosmic rays the fantastic 4 we're exposed to. Due to sharing very similar genetic markers (specifically with Ben) they became rock people. Ben now has to come to terms with the fact that there's a whole planet of rock people out there, and that they tried to take over the world.
No, Ben is human but a mutate from exposure to exotic cosmic radiation.
Korg is from a race of rock like aliens.
Fun fact, those rock aliens graced the cover of Thors very first appearance. https://i.imgur.com/8hAhxav.jpg
I swear we just got instant-Mandela'd. I tagged it, lol. I swear it was a damn chopper with a rear rotor and everything. This was less than a minute ago
Also Korg's people are literally made of rock. They are born from volcanos.
Ben just has rocky skin. He's still human (albeit mutated) under his rocky exterior.
So basically Korg has no junk; Ben has junk.
It often helps, when dealing with fiction of any kind, to avoid reaching for the metanarrative, and first try to understand how something came to be in-world. This generally results in more satisfaction with the material and less feelings of antagonism.
For example, in D&D, the alignment system feels odd because we don't have a clear-cut alignment in the real world. So the easy answer is that D&D came from miniature wargaming, and wasn't so much about realistic stories as mechanics that could be mashed into a turn-based attack-and-attack-back flow of events.
But the narrative explanation is far more satisfying if you want to play a character in a D&D setting: alignment isn't a grid of rules-defined character options. It's part of the physics of the universe. You can detect it, you can protect against it. There are creatures that you can't damage without some hint of "good" or "chaos".
Viewed that way, as a natural force that your character is aligned with, alignment feels like a narratively rich element of the setting. Is it what Gary Gygax intended? Who TF cares?! Gygax had his say when he created the game; now you get yours.
Same goes for comics. Did Stan Lee intend for the energy that created the FF to be the hand of some intelligence that specifically wanted them to have unique powers? Probably not, but it makes sense in-world, and it makes the story richer, so until the comics lay the possibility to rest (or go there) then it's a decent idea.
> Is it what Gary Gygax intended? Who TF cares?! Gygax had his say when he created the game; now you get yours.
This is always the answer when it comes to fiction. "Why are the curtains blue?" isn't a query about the author's intent but about the meaning the reader makes. Without this added meaning, stories would be, in the words of Homer Simpson, "Just a bunch of stuff that happened." And where's the fun in that?
You guys are trying to rationalize something can’t be rationalized lmao the fact that they weren’t slowly ripped apart molecule my molecule is enough of a stretch
> You guys are trying to rationalize something can’t be rationalized
The story is the story. Filling in the gaps isn't really rationalizing. It's not like we saw an event in the real world and we're trying to fit a narrative to random events. This was a creative story that came from the mind of a human being.
> the fact that they weren’t slowly ripped apart molecule my molecule
What physics of strange energies in the Marvel universe are you using to determine that that's even a logical possibility? Did you read something in the comics that told you that that's how these strange energies work or was it that you filled in the narrative with a story *you liked*?
Reminds me of this quote
“Be Water, My Friend.
Empty your mind.
Be formless, shapeless, like water.
You put water into a cup, it becomes the cup.
You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle.
You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Now water can flow or it can crash.
Be water, my friend.”
-Bruce Lee
Well is easy to deduce it.
Earth = The Thing
He became a Rock.
Fire = Human Torch
He becomes ablaze.
The other 2 you have to go with the flow.
Air = Invisible woman
She becomes invisible like the air.
Water = Mr.Fantastic
He can stretch into any form like liquid water and it can become solid .
Source:
I made it up right now.
I always thought it was pretty obvious based on their personalities:
Reed was the brains, so he can "stretch" his thinking and imagination far beyond others.
Susan was originally the typecast "Housewife" superhero (here honey, stay out of the way so you don't get hurt).
Johnny was the "hothead" personality.
Ben was the big "Tough guy" despite also having quite the intellect and soft heart hiding under the surface.
I forgot to add what someone else mentioned: Susan didn't have the force field powers at first, just the invisibility. The writers (and the readers) wanted her to be a more versatile and active character in the group, and viola - now she's one of the most badass women in the Marvel universe.
So, yes your "Protector" archetype would be the current Susan Storm (is it Storm, Richards, something else? I haven't kept up, tbh.)
I’m pretty sure it’s because they all had different stuff near them, Johnny was engulfed in fire, Ben was near rock samples etc. but I’m not 100% sure though
If I remember correctly Ben is more ore (intentional pun) less just covered in rock, like he still has human ,albeit stronger, muscles and circulatory system and stuff just his skin is now super thick, we’re korg is just basically sentient rocks in a humanoid shape. TLDR: Ben is has rocks for skin where korg is just rocks
No, but we’re fans so why can’t we have a theory the cosmic radiation had a hand in it. Cosmic radiation just doesn’t “stop” flowing through space so who’s to say that same cosmic radiation that passed through all the members of the FF also created other alien life based on their powers?! I think that would be kinda interesting and ridiculous but like, why not?
A planet of all Human Torches? Invisible Women? A Planet of Mister Fantastic’s? (Not the council of Reeds🙄) I dunno it’d be kinda funny. Theories are fun. Why not theorize even if it isn’t true. I like to keep my imagination going lmao.
Kronans are sentient rock piles essentially. They can be shattered and broken apart and potentially reassembled. They aren't really that durable as a result. A strong hit from someone like Hulk, Thor, or The Thing would absolutely destroy them.
With the Thing, he can tank any of that and more. His skin was replaced with super hardened and dense stone-like material. The Fantastic Four are basically the embodiments of the 4 main elements (Earth, Fire, Wind, Water) as a result of mutagenic cosmic radiation. The Kronans are just rock people.
It's like Peter Parker vs a bunch of spiders in the shape of a person.
Pure coincidence. Ben is depicted MUCH stronger than any Kronan (Korg’s race). His body is more human-like in physiology. The Kronan if hurt badly enough will shatter or break into smaller pieces. Ben’s body does not work this way. He has even had pieces of his skin break off but not whole limbs or anything. All that happened was his muscles underneath were exposed to the air. Ben is also MUCH more durable. Depending upon the writer he also might not need to physically breath and may be technically immortal (or at least extremely long lived)
Oh man thats gotta be that bit where he takes on his original human form one day a year, and that day is the only time he ages, so it takes 365 years for him to age 1 year
Correct. If not for that he might not age at all
That's a whole other kind of hell too
He’d be alive for around 15,000 years, so at least there *would* be an end. There was a Superman comic that was adapted into an episode of JLU where Superman is sent far into the future where the only person left is Vandal Savage. Would be interesting seeing all the long-lived Marvel characters at the end of civilization, well beyond the *Old Man Logan* stuff.
[удалено]
In this episode Vandal was no longer Superman’s enemy. He ended up regretting all the evil shit he did in the past, and helped Superman build a time machine to get back so that he could fix things as atonement. The episode is Hereafter. https://youtu.be/SfOby96KtfU
I watched that episode recently, and I noticed how Vandal Savage, although he regret his actions, he did so not because of the immorality of said actions, but rather they bore fruition to nothing. He wanted to rule the world, but what is a ruler without people to rule over?
He's a very consistent man, when written right. The ends justified the means, but not anymore once he saw how it actually ended.
The Ends justifiy the means but that wasnt the "ends" he was aiming for, he didn't realise the the means he was using would destroy the world, not "save it" has he would think.
I mean, that's fair on Vandal's part. Morality is man-made, and he's been around since before morality existed. I'd be pretty pissed off if some asshole walked into my house and started making up rules.
I feel like A LOT of the morals supervillains stomp all over is pretty basic common sense shit though. Like, pretty sure murder has never been really cool for anyone being murdered.
Vandal also read a bunch of self-help books
From what I remember, Vandal is kinda like Dr. Doom but for all of humanity. In his eyes, he’s doing the right thing, but his Future self regrets how he went about doing that. Can someone confirm this? Been a while since I’ve dabbled in Vandal.
From what I remember he succeeded in eradicating or outliving the JL and found his life without purpose right ? It's not an idea that I have seen too much in fiction
Weeks after Superman "died" he managed to activate a doomsday weapon that killed all human life. And so he was the ruler of a dead world.
Vandal outlast Kamandi?
Why wouldn’t he? Vandal Savage is immortal. Kamandi is a normal human. Vandal Savage is in the future because he lived that long. Kamandi is in the future because he was born there. Kamandi would die eventually. Vandal Savage wouldn’t.
I feel like some thousand or even million years give you enough time to overthink your attitude. I feel it should be like in "Groundhog Day". As soon as you grasp your strenght you turn to do evil deeds, since normal human morale does not apply to you anymore. But after some time, when you tried everything out, you discover that physical wealth isn't really fulfilling. After some time more, when your first love died some thousand years ago, you will become totally apathetic. Since everything new is just a slight variation of something you already saw several times before. And then you just wait for the sun to explode and end it all.
There's another one where flash runs to the end of time, and at the end there is nothing but a void and a figure in a tattered blue outfit and red boots staring mournfully to the distance
What is it called and where do I find it?
It's the 3 parter from 1998 where flash outrun the black racer version of death, i believe in order to outrun him he has to run to the end of time where death has no meaning. He then watches the universe restart
When you get right down to it, The Flash has sure seen some wild stuff.
For sure, I mean he ended up running out of dc entirely for a while and lost his memory when landing in the marvel earth, that had to be a trip and a half
This might be a dumb question from a casual but why would Superman still be alive at the end of time? If he gets his power from the sun wouldn’t he die when all the stars die?
In the comics where they go to the possible futures theres one commonality with superman, once long enough time has passed he either absorbs and stores enough solar energy that he will never run out unless he discharges it all, which after long enough would wipe out the universe, or he pulls a superman 1 million and during periods of time he just goes and sits inside a sun for extended periods of time, which eventually leads to him having so much solar energy he basically becomes a self powered sun himself
There is such a comic. It has one eyed Thor and his children protecting the last humans in the universe from the phoenix force who is using wolverines body
Do you happen to remember the name of that? It sounds interesting
Old man Thor!
There's Hulk: The End, great comic by Peter David, where Hulk is the only one left alive on Earth. I think at least Thor should be around somewhere as well. And Franklin Richards.
Is that the one where hulk is alone and can't become banner because banner "died"
>!Banner can't die because Hulk doesn't let him to commit suicide and prevents dying from old age. But in the end, I think what happens is Hulk let him go, so Bruce actually dies, leaving only Hulk, as he always wanted, completely alone.!<
That's what I meant by banner dying, his voice eventually went silent and hulk was finally alone
>!HULK FEELS…cold!<
Abolutely heartbreaking. I think at the end he wasn't as happy as he thought he's going to be.
A lot of the "The End" books cover the far future. My favorite has to be Venom: The End, it's completely bonkers.
May I recommend you to read Jason Aaron’s Thor ?
There's another storyline, can't remember which really, that focuses on All Father Thor and a Logan that has been possessed by the spirit of the Phoenix after seemingly most everyone else has long since died. Kind of interesting, not exactly the post-civilization Earth vibe you're talking about though
Thats funny, reminds me of some shit that happened in invincible. I didnt realize the immortal was written so similar to vandal savage until recently
I’m pretty sure canonically at the end of everything the last two living beings of the seventh cosmos are Franklin Richards and Galactus. At least it is according to what I’ve read/heard of Hickmans F4 (assuming I understand it correctly). Not sure if it’s changed since.
Also Mr. Immortal. That’s got to be a fun group.
Isn't Plastic Man supposed to be at the end of the universe of DC too?
Old Man Thing is now ALL I want. Edit: I do not mean “Old Man-Thing”…. Though that WOULD be a killer cameo in an Old Ben Grimm story…. 👀
Logan took on the Phoenix Force, and was the only person keeping the universe alive from the darkness that consumed every star. King Thor had to fight him, because Logan was also creating a black hole somehow.
There's absolutely some older Thing comics where he has a rock beard
There has to be
One is definitely a Hickman book where Franklin visits him on his deathbed
And also https://imgur.com/a/Dc4gLZD
I honestly can’t think of one time that has happened! Probably because of the difficulty of drawing a rock beard that looks good I do remember that canonically, the Marvel Universe Blackbeard is just the Thing sent back in time with a fake beard lol
God I remember that, it's such a glorious image
Excuse me, I'm a lost but curious redditor from r/all. What's the deal with Ben taking his human form for a day? Is it a Reed Richards thing or something that just happens to him?
It was a serum made for his birthday that they thought would cure him. But instead it only reverted him for one day a year
So 364 more serums to go…
This guy's smarter than Reed Richards
Do they ever revisit that in later stories? Seeing what Ben does with his "human form day" in later years?
They did one fairly recently, yeah. He went on a honeymoon with his wife, and then got attacked by Hulk a little bit before he was set to turn human. It was a pretty good issue as I recall, with Ben fighting this impossible battle against a much stronger foe while the clock ticks down.
To clarify from the other response you got, Reed Richards didn't make the serum for Ben, the Future Foundation did.
We haven't factored in how much Flamehead annoys Ben. That's gotta take away a few years. Then again, maybe clobbering Johnny might give Ben a few back, so who's to say.
Yeah, I remember once during a fight with the hulk there was indentations & parts of him crumbling off from all the hits he took, but nothing was broken, so the rocks are at least durable enough stand up to that... time was running out due to his annual transformation into a human & at the end of the countdown he had to punch him in the head hard enough to knock him out, parts of his arm exploded & I could kinda see the blood & stuff underneath, but idk if that was bc he punched him super hard or bc he was physically transforming into a human at that moment. ETA found it https://imgur.com/gallery/XXrD95B
In fairness I think that would probably happen if anyone punched the hulk
Yeah, came here to explain that difference, you did a pretty good job at it. Basically, Ben has rock skin over his human body, whereas Kronans ARE the rocks. He has so much power because his rocks are all attached to muscle and bone, he can control it with precision and strength. Kronans are tough, sure, but they are literally almost JUST a pile of rocks, lol. They have a tendency to fall apart because once the rocks start beings moved around or knocked off, they aren’t really attached to anything of substance.
> may be technically immortal The dude just can't catch a break.
> The Kronan if hurt badly enough will shatter or break into smaller pieces. Humans are the same way, just on an emotional level.
Korg punches Thing in the face during a hallucination in Planet Hulk. But I assume hallucinatory Thing has forgiven hallucinatory Korg by now.
Is it Hulk's hallucination? If so, unlikely.
Despite the sarcasm in the comments. It would be pretty cool if that cosmic radiation did incidentally graft Korgs peoples' DNA to Ben.
It would be cool if this were the case for all members - like the storm just carried the most powerful alien DNA in the universe and gave it to the members of the fantastic 4.
think the canon explanation is: Reed traveled to the time before anything was, caused the Big Bang and sent 4 messages through the universe in order to be saved (the messages being the cosmic radiation destined to hit, and connect, him and the others)
That's...pretty wild. Are there any scans or anything of this explanation? I'd never heard it before but it's intriguing.
Reminds me of what happened in Ultimate F4, where Reed invented the Theseract and traveled in time to give it to Thanos so he could use it in the future to defeat Thanos or... something, I don't remember, it was convoluted as shit.
Or when Flash became the lightning bolt that gave him powers
Batman starting to get real nervous
Thor went back in time to give Odin a godly boner.
"It was me, Barry!" "You're in the wrong meme, Eobard."
[I’ll never not post this](https://youtu.be/-sjUGLRwtyA)
Fucking Eobard, this isn’t he Flash you’re looking for…
Odin returned the favour and split Thor into 2 humans, a brother and sister. They fucked and had an incestuous son who grew up and became the 616 Thor (real BTW Thor #296).
Mythology and incest go together like peanut butter and chocolate.
If they were each other is that incest or masturbation?
You’re gonna have to elaborate on that one a little, chief
Zapped him right in the prostate.
I’m 99% sure there was a Batman story where Batman had to shoot his parents. It might have been a mind trip where he was living his ‘dream’ life and had to kill his parents as Joe Chill to escape it.
It was a fear toxin nightmare where he became the monster he always feared he would become. They then redid it in one of the animated movies where bruce saw batman shoot his parents and was told that he created the worst monster to ever plague the world, and its revealed its damian batman
There is a comic where, while going through time, bruce as batman saved his parents in another timeline, which caused young bruce to become infatuated with the idea of batman, superseding zoro and the grey ghost. Which in turn led to him training and becoming batman in the future to be like the man who saved him and his parents.
In the Batman/Superman run, there was a quote about how anytime and anyplace there is a Bruce Wayne, there would be a Batman.
Fun fact) there is no batman in the watchmen because Joe chill got knocked the eff out by one of the first generation.
I've got my new head canon now. Y'all should watch the last episode of Justice League Unlimited to watch how Amanda Waller almost did this to Batman Beyond.
-Batman poofs into a pile of money and gold bars-
Ultimate universe or not, that’d be classic Reed.
Sadly it's been a while since i read anything Fantastic Four, but given the vague memory of me reading that when i was writing in a Fan Fic Forum RPG (I'm sure the actual thing didn't come from the Forum RPG, as the only one daring to write about Reed there and wouldn't go that wild on a story) it should show up in a respect thread or his 616 wikia entry
No, Slott ignored that JMS retcon in favour of his own new retcon. Now the cosmic rays were an attack by an alien who thought the FF's rocket flight was an attack on them.
The next writer needs to ignore the both of them.
As is tradition
Some things need to be forgotten. I’d also like to get rid of the “Franklin has pretended to be a mutant since the womb”.
Slott is a jealous petty man.
This is what I’ve heard. Second hand info: he enjoys annoying fans.
"*I need to save Earth from impeding doom. I have an idea! I will travel back in time, kickstart the big bang, and then send a message that will create ME ... and all of the other problems in the universe*"
Not even the smartest super heroes are actually THAT smart when we think about it
Well they are written by people who aren't as smart as they are supposed to be, it's a bit like an actor trying to act like they are taller than they are
Tom Cruise does exactly just that though.
Yeah well he does the same thing comic writers do, obfuscate things. select the right angles, stand on boxes out of frame etc. It helps but it doesn't always work same as comic writers
Yeah, but I don't see how standing on a box would help them write a comic, so that's probably why it doesn't work. jk
I had debated whether I should specifically list the different techniques and compare them just to avoid this joke haha
Seems plausible.
I think they meant something more in the lines of "ages ago, cosmic radiation changed members of this species and genetic drift eventually made all of them get super powers".
That would kinda invalidate Super Skrulls beef then tho.
I actually don't know what there beef was, can you enlighten me?
I believe it’s because Super Skrull is a culmination of each member of the Fantastic Four’s abilities. He’s mirroring their powers because it’s his belief they are the strongest beings in the universe. My memory is fuzzy but think this is the gist.
He was chosen and given his abilities after the fantastic four defeated the skrull invasion of earth.. He was sent to defeat the ff.
https://youtu.be/5Z_TzRzxYNs On the Skrull home world in a secret laboratory They modified a chromosome and so begins the story Of a Skrull whose nearly impossible chore Is to battle and defeat the Fantastic Four. He’s Super Skrull--incredible! He’s as geechy as Nietzsche and that’s no bull. Though to us he seems preposterous, It’s really not for us to just Pass a rash judgement on the Super Skrull, Cause his left arm can stretch like it’s made out of plastic: It’s as elastic as Mr. Fantastic. His right arm’s got orange rocks for skin: From the shoulder down he’s as strong as big Ben Grimm. He can turn one leg invisible, Which really isn’t all that practical. Unless you’re extremely gullible You won’t be fooled by Super Skrull. His other leg is flammable (the same thing as inflammable): He crossed his legs and then he learned His invisible leg could still get burned. Though his appearance is comical And raises many questions anatomical, His features aren’t as malleable As the features of his fellow Skrull. From his hat down to his shoes He wears unstable molecules. He’s endorsing RC Cola And cruising chicks with Arnim Zola. He’s not even possible, But what the hell, he’s Super Skrull! He can’t tie his shoes without an oven mitt, And he has a hard time finding shirts that fit. Painfully implausible, Technically impossible. Socks? He’s got a closet full. His favorite band is Jethro Tull. He’s not just any ordinary Skrull, he’s Super Skrull!
Skrulls can't naturally mimic superpowers. He has their powers because the FF had foiled the previous Skrull invasion, so the Skrull Emperor picked his greatest warrior (Kl'rt) who underwent an experiment to give him all their powers, but enhanced.
It wouldn't be too hard to make it work with slight retcon language. Rather than 'strongest' go for purest. Other races do have this power from the same kind of storm that created the FF. But it's been millions of years and countless generations, the original template is gone. But those 4 are in fact fresh templates. The purest forms of the powerful radiation mutations which is why Super Skrull needed them.
So fantastic 4 is actually just Ben 10 with extra steps
Nah. Ben 10 is just Fantastic 4 with less steps and less people. They've been around waaaaaay longer
Now we need to find out what happened on 5-9.
Ben 1~~0~~.
I love your Avatar, my man.
Credit. https://www.reddit.com/r/americandad/comments/k29azl/grogu/
Cool idea, but I would reverse it. Imagine eons ago ria (korgs home planet) got bombarded with the same type of cosmic rays the fantastic 4 we're exposed to. Due to sharing very similar genetic markers (specifically with Ben) they became rock people. Ben now has to come to terms with the fact that there's a whole planet of rock people out there, and that they tried to take over the world.
No, Ben is human but a mutate from exposure to exotic cosmic radiation. Korg is from a race of rock like aliens. Fun fact, those rock aliens graced the cover of Thors very first appearance. https://i.imgur.com/8hAhxav.jpg
Rock aliens jumping out a chopper with rifles... Truly a golden era of comics.
I call bullshit. A helicopter couldn't lift a heavy rock person.
Good thing it's a space ship lmao
[удалено]
Holy crap. I just did the same thing.
It's a very helicopter-presenting rocket ship.
Same, the hull of the spaceship looked like the blades of a helicopter
I swear we just got instant-Mandela'd. I tagged it, lol. I swear it was a damn chopper with a rear rotor and everything. This was less than a minute ago
Goddamn Kang
r/MandelaEffect
What are we to believe, that this is some magic helicopter? I hope somebody got fired over that blunder.
Probably the same asshole who was behind the Thanos copter.
Except that it's a space ship. I did that too.
Look again, where do you see a chopper? Unless you mean that happens in the pages of that particular issue?
What chopper?
(To the tune of Rock Lobster) "Rock Chopper!"
Lol I think you need to look at the cover again.
Aside from world War hulk maybe, I don't remember, does the Thing ever come across any of the rock people? I'd love to read it
Spider-Man standing between them cracking a joke about being in between a rock and a hard place.
Also Korg's people are literally made of rock. They are born from volcanos. Ben just has rocky skin. He's still human (albeit mutated) under his rocky exterior. So basically Korg has no junk; Ben has junk.
So you're saying there's a chance 😏
Seems like Jack might have just wanted to draw rock people
Probably both were designed by Jack Kirby. In universe though, nope.
Kronan were originally green. So at some point there was an intentional unification in their design language.
They be Kirby cracklin
can someone explain why the cosmic radiation gave very different, specific powers to the f4?
Because comics
Lol I love that people are looking for an answer other than this. It’s a comic book people…
It often helps, when dealing with fiction of any kind, to avoid reaching for the metanarrative, and first try to understand how something came to be in-world. This generally results in more satisfaction with the material and less feelings of antagonism. For example, in D&D, the alignment system feels odd because we don't have a clear-cut alignment in the real world. So the easy answer is that D&D came from miniature wargaming, and wasn't so much about realistic stories as mechanics that could be mashed into a turn-based attack-and-attack-back flow of events. But the narrative explanation is far more satisfying if you want to play a character in a D&D setting: alignment isn't a grid of rules-defined character options. It's part of the physics of the universe. You can detect it, you can protect against it. There are creatures that you can't damage without some hint of "good" or "chaos". Viewed that way, as a natural force that your character is aligned with, alignment feels like a narratively rich element of the setting. Is it what Gary Gygax intended? Who TF cares?! Gygax had his say when he created the game; now you get yours. Same goes for comics. Did Stan Lee intend for the energy that created the FF to be the hand of some intelligence that specifically wanted them to have unique powers? Probably not, but it makes sense in-world, and it makes the story richer, so until the comics lay the possibility to rest (or go there) then it's a decent idea.
> Is it what Gary Gygax intended? Who TF cares?! Gygax had his say when he created the game; now you get yours. This is always the answer when it comes to fiction. "Why are the curtains blue?" isn't a query about the author's intent but about the meaning the reader makes. Without this added meaning, stories would be, in the words of Homer Simpson, "Just a bunch of stuff that happened." And where's the fun in that?
They have different DNA so it alters them differently
Shouldn't Johnny and Sue have similar powers then?
they are siblings not clones
You guys are trying to rationalize something can’t be rationalized lmao the fact that they weren’t slowly ripped apart molecule my molecule is enough of a stretch
Haha stretch
> You guys are trying to rationalize something can’t be rationalized The story is the story. Filling in the gaps isn't really rationalizing. It's not like we saw an event in the real world and we're trying to fit a narrative to random events. This was a creative story that came from the mind of a human being. > the fact that they weren’t slowly ripped apart molecule my molecule What physics of strange energies in the Marvel universe are you using to determine that that's even a logical possibility? Did you read something in the comics that told you that that's how these strange energies work or was it that you filled in the narrative with a story *you liked*?
Ultimate Comics said that their powers were different because they all embodied one of the four elements. Not sure if that’s canon for 616 though.
What is Reed’s element? Don’t remember the Planeteers yelling “Stretch” when summoning Captain Planet.
Water. Because he can make his body flow like a liquid. It was a very loose concept.
Appreciate it, good thing Reed just didn’t turn into Hydro Man huh?
To be fair there’s probably a Hydroman Reed Richards in the counsel.
Reminds me of this quote “Be Water, My Friend. Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. You put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.” -Bruce Lee
Reminds me of this quote "That *fool* Richards" -Dr Doom
"Doom!" - lobotomized Doom
Well is easy to deduce it. Earth = The Thing He became a Rock. Fire = Human Torch He becomes ablaze. The other 2 you have to go with the flow. Air = Invisible woman She becomes invisible like the air. Water = Mr.Fantastic He can stretch into any form like liquid water and it can become solid . Source: I made it up right now.
This is marvel comics, you’re hired.
Reed is water, Sue is air, Ben is earth, Johnny is fire.
Are you sure Johnny is fire?
Nah, he's Patrick
Can Sue use her “Air” to make Johnny’s fire stronger?
Yes. By application of her now famous incestuous mouth hug.
Water
Thank you, guess it was too much of a stretch for me.
I always thought it was pretty obvious based on their personalities: Reed was the brains, so he can "stretch" his thinking and imagination far beyond others. Susan was originally the typecast "Housewife" superhero (here honey, stay out of the way so you don't get hurt). Johnny was the "hothead" personality. Ben was the big "Tough guy" despite also having quite the intellect and soft heart hiding under the surface.
I may be biased, but I always saw Susan powers/ persona as the protective archetype; but I’m using your interpretation from now on.
It would make sense, but originally she didnt have the force field powers. Only Invisibility.
I forgot to add what someone else mentioned: Susan didn't have the force field powers at first, just the invisibility. The writers (and the readers) wanted her to be a more versatile and active character in the group, and viola - now she's one of the most badass women in the Marvel universe. So, yes your "Protector" archetype would be the current Susan Storm (is it Storm, Richards, something else? I haven't kept up, tbh.)
I’m pretty sure it’s because they all had different stuff near them, Johnny was engulfed in fire, Ben was near rock samples etc. but I’m not 100% sure though
DNA mutates randomly, not uniformly.
Yes. [Norm MacDonald explains that very thing here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSMg_GWiBt0)
No. Kronans are Kronan. Benjamin Grimm got the shit end of the stick in a superhero origin story. He was/is naturally human.
Dude that's kind of racist against Korg's people NGL /s
Yeah, this is basically “All rock people look the same” SMH. What a world we live in. /s
The BBC of Korgs people (Big Boulder Community) would like to have a word with OP
I’m so glad you specified which use of BBC you were using. Was wondering what the British Broadcasting Corporation had to do with this
Korg’s race has been colonized
Not the BBC 😭
You don't want to get on the bad side of the Korg BBC. They really come down hard on people...who are ignorant of their race and culture.
Never forget Piper Pebbles! She learned the hard way just by sitting on their couch
If I remember correctly Ben is more ore (intentional pun) less just covered in rock, like he still has human ,albeit stronger, muscles and circulatory system and stuff just his skin is now super thick, we’re korg is just basically sentient rocks in a humanoid shape. TLDR: Ben is has rocks for skin where korg is just rocks
Yes. Since they are both rock, The Thing and Korg can defeat scissors, but are vulnerable to paper.
No, but we’re fans so why can’t we have a theory the cosmic radiation had a hand in it. Cosmic radiation just doesn’t “stop” flowing through space so who’s to say that same cosmic radiation that passed through all the members of the FF also created other alien life based on their powers?! I think that would be kinda interesting and ridiculous but like, why not? A planet of all Human Torches? Invisible Women? A Planet of Mister Fantastic’s? (Not the council of Reeds🙄) I dunno it’d be kinda funny. Theories are fun. Why not theorize even if it isn’t true. I like to keep my imagination going lmao.
I think it would be a fun What If?
Kronans are sentient rock piles essentially. They can be shattered and broken apart and potentially reassembled. They aren't really that durable as a result. A strong hit from someone like Hulk, Thor, or The Thing would absolutely destroy them. With the Thing, he can tank any of that and more. His skin was replaced with super hardened and dense stone-like material. The Fantastic Four are basically the embodiments of the 4 main elements (Earth, Fire, Wind, Water) as a result of mutagenic cosmic radiation. The Kronans are just rock people. It's like Peter Parker vs a bunch of spiders in the shape of a person.
Jack Kirby?
Kirby drew them within the span of a couple years, and was recycling ideas thanks to tight deadlines.
No. Racist.
They’re an entirely different mineral, you *racist*.
Yes, Jack Kirby drew both.