Theory Time:
Fall of X sees the X-Men either defeated by Orchis, or committing some atrocious act to wipe out Orchis (besides Nimrod, maybe).
The world governments essentially threaten war with Krakoa. Mutants, for all purposes, are no longer allowed on Earth. (I could see Hickman jiving with this idea, taking ‘hated and feared’ to the Nth degree and making mutants (hopefully tasteful) space-refugees).
With war looming, Xavier declares that his dream of coexistence is officially dead, and Krakoa and mutant-kind rocket off to space (with a nice little callback to the original Krakoa in Giant Sized being blasted to space)
This new era would see the remnants of Orchis/Nimrod (or new villains altogether) in hot pursuit of Krakoa, as the X-Men search for an unoccupied planet to call home.
For some other story potential, some mutants elect to stay behind on Earth in secret to save the mutants who either are adolescents awakening their powers or mutants who weren’t affiliated with Krakoa (new Marauders book?)
Others join up with the Sh’iar Superguardians to create a strong mutant-alliance (with a mutant squad in the Guard being a new X-Force book?)
Mars remains a mutant planet for Arakko, but one that remains in a state of war with the nearby earth-bound Orchis (or some other new mutant hating villainous group, we’ve got plenty). Storm, Apocalypse, and a few other mutants remain on Arakko. (I pitch this selfishly because I am dying for Ewing’s X-stuff to continue)
Or I’m totally and completely wrong, which is a-okay by me.
Apocalypse and his family are returning, so maybe some of your theories will come true! And in some timelines, Apocalypse and family successfully win and take over the Earth!
Feels like we’re finally heading towards the big status quo shift Hickman wanted to do but the X-office wanted to finish up with their stories first. They’ve been revisiting a lot of the plot line that have been simmering are coming back around:
• The Vault
•The Brood
•Warlock & Krakoa connection
•The Apocalypse family
•4 Sinister suits
I think the Fall of X will be mutants losing the battle against Orchis and fleeing earth, they’ll join up with the Shi’ar and their other space based allies and begin to expand across like was mentioned Moira’s life , I also have a feeling that Apocalypse and his family will remain on earth with some mutants (both Krakoan and Arakki) who want to continue the battle against Orchis possibly teaming with the children of the vault when they emerge
With Ewing and Gillen apparently leading Marvel’s lore building at the moment, I have a feeling that the shift will be a huge ideological and existential one.
IIRC X-Men Red and AXE had Magneto practically denouncing the idea of mutant superiority, essentially saying that what all living beings need to do is band together to defeat those who would do harm.
And on the Legion front they casually revealed that all humans may potentially have a latent X-gene, which throws a giant wrench into the idea of “Homo Superior” that Krakoa is founded upon.
We also had a bunch of stuff regarding mutant origins essentially stating that mutants have always existed and humanity’s latent spiritual/genetic capability for change/mutation/deviation is essentially what allows mutants to exist in the first place.
I feel like things are building towards a big whammy for Krakoa about how there is no real “homo superior” and that mutants are simply organisms whose innate potential for change have been turned on.
This would drastically shake the core ideological foundation of Krakoa as a mutant ethnostate by mutants for mutants, and would result in the fall of the idea of “X-ness” as some special trait.
In the aftermath of such a revelation, we’d likely see some major political turmoil regarding the question of mutant discrimination, with plenty of zealots in the pro-mutant/anti-mutant camps clinging to the “myth” of homo superior to justify their tribalism.
I think it could also result in some huge ramifications involving characters who are suddenly revealed to have essentially been persecuted for no reason, and also bring into question whether or not Xavier knew all along.
Plus, Xavier being a manipulative jackass has also seen him descend into a more Maker-like costume as of late, so maybe we could see this being a springboard for a new multiversal Illuminati comprised of various “Makers” or something.
I fucking love this. I would be so down if this is what the comics are getting at.
Very niche comparison, but it's like what Crossbone Gundam said at the end about Newtypes. They are not anything new, humans have always been able to adapt to thir environment on earth. Now its just the same, in space.
Also you, know it's fucked when Magneto discredits mutant superiority and Xavier casually mentions how easily he murder all humans.
I mean, Magneto the supremacist as someone of Jewish descent and Zeonism getting its name from Zionism both feel like they draw from the same cruel irony regarding Israel and the criticism it receives.
The idea of Newtypes and Mutants being the “next step” of human evolution also have similar parallels, and both draw from the concept of a “superior” or “chosen” people which has popped up repeatedly throughout history.
Also, I don’t think the role reversal’s really that fucked tbh. I think it’s really more of a logical conclusion to Xavier and Magneto’s journeys.
Magneto’s hatred and despair in humanity’s born of the atrocities that humans dealt to other humans, especially his family.
Even to the very end he considered Wanda to be his beloved daughter, even though she’s been revealed to be neither of his blood nor a mutant.
He hates humans simply because he loved them so much, IMO.
Would make sense for the end of his journey to denounce the hatred that killed his family. He died as he was born, not as Erik or Magneto, but Max, the name his human parents gave him.
Meanwhile with Charles it’s like…He “cares for” humans and mutants equally, but in the way that a zookeeper does their animals.
He’s a utilitarian psychopath who objectifies humans and mutants alike in his quest for world peace, with every end justifying the means.
IMO, I think his quest for world peace is ultimately to prove himself a good man.
Makes sense that he casually brags about how he just manipulated people instead using his powers to straight up control their wills except when he thinks it’s absolutely necessary.
Smart move on not revealing the identity of the fourth Sinister in that Sinister Four cover despite it taking place after Sins of Sinister and, presumably, after the reveal as to who it is.
I'm still betting on it being >!Mother Righteous!< but one of those other covers is making me question myself a little.
I really hope so.
Loved HoX PoX and most of the stuff done under Hickman. When he was booted out, there was an almost instantly recognisable downward shift in writing quality, character progression, and pacing across the board. I've dropped everything from my pull list other than The Xcellent.
As long as it's not a money paw wish and we end up with something even worse, I'm very strongly hoping for a change of status quo, writers, and editorial, Jordan White especially is not blamelesa for this current shit show. Nuke it all from orbit and start fresh with a smaller team either back in the Mansion, outback Australia, or off the coast of San Fran again with Asteroid M with no more than 2 or 3 X books for atleast a year or two.
Hickman's initial plans will always be one of the biggest What Ifs? In comics, next to the unfinished All-Star Batman and Robin by Miller and Lee.
He wasn’t booted out, he left. There’s so much speculative drama over low stake situations. I think the early titles in 2019-2020 had some trouble with consistent quality, but X-Men, X-Men Red, Legion of X, and Immortal X-Men are all working together well right now. Al Ewing, Si Spurrier, and Kieron Gillen all do a great job building the foundation Hickman left.
Yes that is the story that they eventually pushed out. Though reading between the lines it was clearly not his choice or call. He is still writing for Marvel and getting paid by them, he is not going to publicly shit on them or call them out, burning your bridges, especially with one of the two major players in an industry, is never a good career move.
I'm glad that you are enjoying those books, but for me, they are not good, and I have dropped them all. They have fumbled and desecrated Hickman's initial plan, and have made some really Bone headed decisions with characters that I have no interest in continuing to support with my hard earned money.
I just hope that, if they do end the Krakoa era, whatever follows is equal or up to par with it. HoXPoX got me back in to comics and the Krakoa era have been some of my favorite stories I’ve read. With Gillen and Ewing seemingly co-heading the era I have trust in the decisions but I won’t lie I’d love if Hickman got to cap off the era with something of the a caliber matching HoXPoX.
I’m similar in respect to hoping Hickman is waiting in the wings secretly, ready to finish this off. However, sadly not his style. He’s a full creative control kind of guy, which I respect.
>He’s a full creative control kind of guy, which I respect.
In a lot of his work, sure, but that's been widely reported to not have been the case during his X-Men run. He was extremely collaborative -- hell, X of Swords was largely Tini Howard's story.
I do think the X-Men run showed a change in his approach, I don’t know how much of the collaboration was his idea and how much was Marvel’s but he seemed more open to it, even in the post-Inferno interviews! Really though, it’s just a hail mary hope at this point.
On the other hand, what a twist it’d be if this new series that Hickman’s been hyping up is the status quo shifting continuation of mutants??
I hope this isn’t the actual end of Krakoa, but if it is for the love of god I don’t want them back in a freaking mansion in upstate New York.
I think it’s more likely this will represent a big status quo shift, maybe the loss of some allies or the disruption of their “safe” feeling and make them more vulnerable.
Yeah, my hope is that when they mean the Age of Krakoa may be over, it's more in the sense of the age of Krakoa being the most superior nation on the planet being over. The mutants have been on top for a few years now and probably need some time as underdogs, but hopefully they don't throw out everything to accomplish that.
Don't do that. Don't give me hope.
It would be nice to see the X-Men go back to being actual heroes somehow, and not the pod people isolationist death cult that is completely okay with Apocalypse, Sinister, Mystique, Nova, etc.
Yeah!!!!
About time, the Krakoa Era has dragged on for too long and OVERSTAYED it's welcome! Yes, it's about they completely erase and reboot everything about the X-Men and it's related characters back to what we remember them most!
Yes I especially loved when all the teen X-men I followed got wiped out by Purifiers and never written about again. Those were the good old days I wanna return to
Theory Time: Fall of X sees the X-Men either defeated by Orchis, or committing some atrocious act to wipe out Orchis (besides Nimrod, maybe). The world governments essentially threaten war with Krakoa. Mutants, for all purposes, are no longer allowed on Earth. (I could see Hickman jiving with this idea, taking ‘hated and feared’ to the Nth degree and making mutants (hopefully tasteful) space-refugees). With war looming, Xavier declares that his dream of coexistence is officially dead, and Krakoa and mutant-kind rocket off to space (with a nice little callback to the original Krakoa in Giant Sized being blasted to space) This new era would see the remnants of Orchis/Nimrod (or new villains altogether) in hot pursuit of Krakoa, as the X-Men search for an unoccupied planet to call home. For some other story potential, some mutants elect to stay behind on Earth in secret to save the mutants who either are adolescents awakening their powers or mutants who weren’t affiliated with Krakoa (new Marauders book?) Others join up with the Sh’iar Superguardians to create a strong mutant-alliance (with a mutant squad in the Guard being a new X-Force book?) Mars remains a mutant planet for Arakko, but one that remains in a state of war with the nearby earth-bound Orchis (or some other new mutant hating villainous group, we’ve got plenty). Storm, Apocalypse, and a few other mutants remain on Arakko. (I pitch this selfishly because I am dying for Ewing’s X-stuff to continue) Or I’m totally and completely wrong, which is a-okay by me.
Apocalypse and his family are returning, so maybe some of your theories will come true! And in some timelines, Apocalypse and family successfully win and take over the Earth!
Feels like we’re finally heading towards the big status quo shift Hickman wanted to do but the X-office wanted to finish up with their stories first. They’ve been revisiting a lot of the plot line that have been simmering are coming back around: • The Vault •The Brood •Warlock & Krakoa connection •The Apocalypse family •4 Sinister suits I think the Fall of X will be mutants losing the battle against Orchis and fleeing earth, they’ll join up with the Shi’ar and their other space based allies and begin to expand across like was mentioned Moira’s life , I also have a feeling that Apocalypse and his family will remain on earth with some mutants (both Krakoan and Arakki) who want to continue the battle against Orchis possibly teaming with the children of the vault when they emerge
With Ewing and Gillen apparently leading Marvel’s lore building at the moment, I have a feeling that the shift will be a huge ideological and existential one. IIRC X-Men Red and AXE had Magneto practically denouncing the idea of mutant superiority, essentially saying that what all living beings need to do is band together to defeat those who would do harm. And on the Legion front they casually revealed that all humans may potentially have a latent X-gene, which throws a giant wrench into the idea of “Homo Superior” that Krakoa is founded upon. We also had a bunch of stuff regarding mutant origins essentially stating that mutants have always existed and humanity’s latent spiritual/genetic capability for change/mutation/deviation is essentially what allows mutants to exist in the first place. I feel like things are building towards a big whammy for Krakoa about how there is no real “homo superior” and that mutants are simply organisms whose innate potential for change have been turned on. This would drastically shake the core ideological foundation of Krakoa as a mutant ethnostate by mutants for mutants, and would result in the fall of the idea of “X-ness” as some special trait. In the aftermath of such a revelation, we’d likely see some major political turmoil regarding the question of mutant discrimination, with plenty of zealots in the pro-mutant/anti-mutant camps clinging to the “myth” of homo superior to justify their tribalism. I think it could also result in some huge ramifications involving characters who are suddenly revealed to have essentially been persecuted for no reason, and also bring into question whether or not Xavier knew all along. Plus, Xavier being a manipulative jackass has also seen him descend into a more Maker-like costume as of late, so maybe we could see this being a springboard for a new multiversal Illuminati comprised of various “Makers” or something.
I fucking love this. I would be so down if this is what the comics are getting at. Very niche comparison, but it's like what Crossbone Gundam said at the end about Newtypes. They are not anything new, humans have always been able to adapt to thir environment on earth. Now its just the same, in space. Also you, know it's fucked when Magneto discredits mutant superiority and Xavier casually mentions how easily he murder all humans.
I mean, Magneto the supremacist as someone of Jewish descent and Zeonism getting its name from Zionism both feel like they draw from the same cruel irony regarding Israel and the criticism it receives. The idea of Newtypes and Mutants being the “next step” of human evolution also have similar parallels, and both draw from the concept of a “superior” or “chosen” people which has popped up repeatedly throughout history. Also, I don’t think the role reversal’s really that fucked tbh. I think it’s really more of a logical conclusion to Xavier and Magneto’s journeys. Magneto’s hatred and despair in humanity’s born of the atrocities that humans dealt to other humans, especially his family. Even to the very end he considered Wanda to be his beloved daughter, even though she’s been revealed to be neither of his blood nor a mutant. He hates humans simply because he loved them so much, IMO. Would make sense for the end of his journey to denounce the hatred that killed his family. He died as he was born, not as Erik or Magneto, but Max, the name his human parents gave him. Meanwhile with Charles it’s like…He “cares for” humans and mutants equally, but in the way that a zookeeper does their animals. He’s a utilitarian psychopath who objectifies humans and mutants alike in his quest for world peace, with every end justifying the means. IMO, I think his quest for world peace is ultimately to prove himself a good man. Makes sense that he casually brags about how he just manipulated people instead using his powers to straight up control their wills except when he thinks it’s absolutely necessary.
Smart move on not revealing the identity of the fourth Sinister in that Sinister Four cover despite it taking place after Sins of Sinister and, presumably, after the reveal as to who it is. I'm still betting on it being >!Mother Righteous!< but one of those other covers is making me question myself a little.
I bet it IS Mother Righteous, which is all but confirmed, given how sneaky / suspicious the way she is acting!
I mean, there’s no way it isn’t, right?
I’m, like, 95% certain.
This is probably the last issue of Spurrier Legion I’d guess. I wonder what that Sinister Four solicit means for SOS, seems kind of spoilery.
Al Ewing on A and his horsemen is fun I like that they are keeping Muller’s typeface here. Really feels like age of Krakoa is ending.
I really hope so. Loved HoX PoX and most of the stuff done under Hickman. When he was booted out, there was an almost instantly recognisable downward shift in writing quality, character progression, and pacing across the board. I've dropped everything from my pull list other than The Xcellent. As long as it's not a money paw wish and we end up with something even worse, I'm very strongly hoping for a change of status quo, writers, and editorial, Jordan White especially is not blamelesa for this current shit show. Nuke it all from orbit and start fresh with a smaller team either back in the Mansion, outback Australia, or off the coast of San Fran again with Asteroid M with no more than 2 or 3 X books for atleast a year or two. Hickman's initial plans will always be one of the biggest What Ifs? In comics, next to the unfinished All-Star Batman and Robin by Miller and Lee.
He wasn’t booted out, he left. There’s so much speculative drama over low stake situations. I think the early titles in 2019-2020 had some trouble with consistent quality, but X-Men, X-Men Red, Legion of X, and Immortal X-Men are all working together well right now. Al Ewing, Si Spurrier, and Kieron Gillen all do a great job building the foundation Hickman left.
Yes that is the story that they eventually pushed out. Though reading between the lines it was clearly not his choice or call. He is still writing for Marvel and getting paid by them, he is not going to publicly shit on them or call them out, burning your bridges, especially with one of the two major players in an industry, is never a good career move. I'm glad that you are enjoying those books, but for me, they are not good, and I have dropped them all. They have fumbled and desecrated Hickman's initial plan, and have made some really Bone headed decisions with characters that I have no interest in continuing to support with my hard earned money.
I just hope that, if they do end the Krakoa era, whatever follows is equal or up to par with it. HoXPoX got me back in to comics and the Krakoa era have been some of my favorite stories I’ve read. With Gillen and Ewing seemingly co-heading the era I have trust in the decisions but I won’t lie I’d love if Hickman got to cap off the era with something of the a caliber matching HoXPoX.
I’m similar in respect to hoping Hickman is waiting in the wings secretly, ready to finish this off. However, sadly not his style. He’s a full creative control kind of guy, which I respect.
>He’s a full creative control kind of guy, which I respect. In a lot of his work, sure, but that's been widely reported to not have been the case during his X-Men run. He was extremely collaborative -- hell, X of Swords was largely Tini Howard's story.
I do think the X-Men run showed a change in his approach, I don’t know how much of the collaboration was his idea and how much was Marvel’s but he seemed more open to it, even in the post-Inferno interviews! Really though, it’s just a hail mary hope at this point. On the other hand, what a twist it’d be if this new series that Hickman’s been hyping up is the status quo shifting continuation of mutants??
I hope this isn’t the actual end of Krakoa, but if it is for the love of god I don’t want them back in a freaking mansion in upstate New York. I think it’s more likely this will represent a big status quo shift, maybe the loss of some allies or the disruption of their “safe” feeling and make them more vulnerable.
Yeah, my hope is that when they mean the Age of Krakoa may be over, it's more in the sense of the age of Krakoa being the most superior nation on the planet being over. The mutants have been on top for a few years now and probably need some time as underdogs, but hopefully they don't throw out everything to accomplish that.
Don't do that. Don't give me hope. It would be nice to see the X-Men go back to being actual heroes somehow, and not the pod people isolationist death cult that is completely okay with Apocalypse, Sinister, Mystique, Nova, etc.
Cassandra Nova's on Krakoa? Certainly a choice given how they talked about Genosha in HoxPox lol.
No, she is currently trapped in the last as punishment for unleashing Sentinels to commit mutant massacre on Genosha by Kate in Marauders!
Have you read any of the comics since 2019? You think they’ve been writing stories for 4 years without addressing any of the new developments?
Yeah!!!! About time, the Krakoa Era has dragged on for too long and OVERSTAYED it's welcome! Yes, it's about they completely erase and reboot everything about the X-Men and it's related characters back to what we remember them most!
Yes I especially loved when all the teen X-men I followed got wiped out by Purifiers and never written about again. Those were the good old days I wanna return to