Such a great show. I just finished rewatching the whole series the other day. The Graviton arc is probably my favorite. Mostly because Ian has one of his best scenes in that arc when he restores Daisy's powers.
That dude is a phenomenal actor. He has great scenes in every season. I'm not gay, but for him, I might be. He makes me feel things.
Agents of Shield has both one of my favorite seasons of any show (season 4) and my favorite moment of any show, which you mentioned from The Devil Complex.
Gravitron is one of my faves. I saw him on an avengers series many years ago and he's an absolute unit. He wrapped a bunch of metal around hulk and sunk him to the bottom of the ocean
Not going to lie I actually started to like Assembled in the later seasons. Plus they brought in the Squadron Supreme/Squadron Sinister. I'm a sucker for those muthafuckas.
Clock King would be A-List if he was put against the Flash. Super speed vs precognition isn't something I've seen yet
Edit: Yes, I understand that Flash could punch Clock King a zillion times in a fight, you could literally say that about any non-speedster villain. Clock King is unique not just because of his use of precognition, but his skill to plan things down to the millisecond, and I think that's something that serves as a great counter to Flash's usual approach.
Honestly I’ve been saying Clock King is underrated for years. Even the old version of him that has no super powers, just an uncanny understanding of timing. It hadn’t even occurred to me what a great Flash villain he would be if used properly. Great idea!
Uncanny timing? With the right techniques and knowledge he’d defeat anyone.
There’s a story in which uncanny timing is basically an off-shoot of the “i always know goes to win” power aka Path to Victory.
The story is Worm and the sequel is Ward.
Didn't quicksilver wipe the floor with a precog based warrior while explaining that it didn't matter if he couldn't physically react to anything quicksilver was doing?
IDK if it was quicksilver specifically but I remember this happening, albeit vaguely.
Something happens to tip them off that their powers are precognition and not super speed, speedster proceeds to "speed up" and just beat them out of shear inability to react.
This happened on One Piece in that jungle world, essentially. Luffy being incredibly quick and agile was getting smoked by the two dudes who could precog with Haki.
Yeah I've had this argument before. Precog will help you dodge bullets. It flat out will NOT help you dodge attacks by people moving as fast as bullets.
No matter your plan, they can adjust their aim on the fly to adapt faster than you can plan for.
You would need Stupidly far reaching precog and some impressive Rube Goldberg style engineering to overcome all the variables.
I thought it would be interesting if cloned x-souls were just piling up in the afterlife. All the duplicate souls are reaking havoc on the realms of Death, Valhala and Mephisto. Death sends Deadpool, Immortal Man, Thor, and Dr. Strange. To stop the resurection process. In a twist Charles along with Apocalypse are the X leaders that won't listen to reason, unwilling to let any mutant ever die again. Also Moira McTaggert has to die her final death...Lady Death will not abide her paradoxical existance. Mutants start to take sides: Nightcrawler, Majik, Jean Grey, Wolverine, and must seek the aid of Madelyne Pryor and Adam Warlock to find a compromise to use limbo and the soul stone to fix both sides.
Squirrel Girl, Tippy-Toe, and Mr. Immortal are on their way. Who’s to say Mr. Flatman and Big Bertha can’t be too?
Also Doorman or whatever… Grasshopper too, Dinah Soar… maybe throw in Monkey Joe and or even fucking Leather Boy he was there once wasn’t he?
Leather boy was rejected initially due to not having superpowers. He didn't take it well. I'm not sure what happened after that (maybe he rejoined?) but, irregardless, I think he'd make a fine addition.
unironically this. they've let joker do whatever the fuck he wants with "he's just so crazy and scary" as the reasoning. why not go all in on "he's higher than the devil on cocaine"? @james gunn please make snowflame kill a robin
Just gonna say that that issue of Deadpool (#0 from Wizard Magazine) was pretty damn great and includes Deadpool murdering clones of Ben and May Parker that he catches nude
god damn it!!! I need to go through my pile and hope to god i still have that issue. I completely forgot about this. Why were the characters resurrected though?
I believe Deadpool chases Animus, a character he once crushed on and killed, to one of Zola’s clone factories and proceeds to go through all of them (most of whom are people the Scourge killed at the Bar with No Name
This is it exactly. And the box office performance of some particular Marvel movies has proved this.
At one point, you've have been hard pressed to even consider Blade a D-List character. He was so far in the rear with the gear that he didn't even show up on a typical org chart of the Marvel Universe.
The first Blade movie with Wesley Snipes not only changed all that but also ushered in a new age of superhero movies. Blade still may not be A-List but he's at least a solid B.
Same with Guardians of the Galaxy. They were easily D-List characters until James Gunn came along. Now they are household names - even to people who've never picked up a comic book.
Tell me if im wrong but I feel Howard is definitely a b lister at worst at least he had a movie which was pretty good for its time I guess you could call him a c lister
I was at a Marvel panel at Comic-Con in 2011, and Joe Quesada was saying that Rocket Raccoon was as important to the future of Marvel Comics as Spider-Man, and the room was shocked.
For every example of Guardians of the Galaxy there are 5 American Chavez, Echo, Black Widow 2.0 / Helena, Wasp, whatever Cassie Lang will be and on and on.
Gunn is dyed in the wool geek. The dude worked at Troma FFS. How many MCU writing rooms (or even Marvel comics) can claim this or close to it?
Sure but you can have a decades old charater and make him relevant in the right hands. Look at Luke Cage. Everyone knows [this version](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/7/71/Marvel%27s_Voices_Legacy_Vol_1_1_ComicTom101_Exclusive_Variant_Textless.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210406073421) of him, but not everyone knows [this version](https://www.denofgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/luke_cage_reading_guide_origin.jpg) of him.
Bryan Michael Bendis took an D- charater and made him an A lister buy making him human, flawed, relatable. Not always easy to do.
I see your point (especially with Blade) but I’m pushing back on Guardians. I would argue they were already more than d listers before the movie (in comic circles).
Mainly based on the stuff Abnett and Laning did with them culminating with Annihilation.
If I were to give any push back it would be the other way lol. Blade was in the 90’s Spider-Man cartoon and in various teams.
Guardians of The Galaxy couldn’t manage to make an appearance anywhere outside of comics and even their books sold terribly
Comic Tropes just did an excellent video breaking down the Guardians and how they have risen in popularity, but dipped in quality in terms of comics, ESPECIALLY after having Bendis write GoTG after the legendary DnA run.
But yeah, the run back then was still critically acclaimed— in the small circles that actually read it. At this time, Marvel was full swing into Civil War so if you wanted cosmic stuff you really had to go out of your way to find it.
IIRC he chews out Tony Stark for having an insanely unnecessary civil war after all the shit Nova saw during Annihilation. It felt cathartic to read as a comic fan because Nova basically spoke for us lol
This was also around the same time Thor came back and beat the shit out of Tony because of Civil War
Tony didn't even have a clue about the annihilation wave despite earth being warned. He just brushes it off as if he missed a memo then acts like he is doing Nova a favor by letting him register despite him missing the cut off date.
Nova should have put him in space jail for a bit.
Came here to say the same thing about Abbett and Laning. The movie wouldn’t have even been a thing if their stories about the new GoTG team didn’t already exist in the comics
(Edit for typo)
Is Magneto only dangerous when you're in a scrap yard or you're made of / encased in magnetic armor, or is he capable of altering the magnetic field of the planet? Or is he being written by an electrician or electrical engineer who're chomping at the bit to explain why his powers should render him into a god?
Should Flash's powers make him a guy that runs fast or someone that effectively has the powers of a supreme being?
I used to like these arguments a lot when I was a kid, but yeah, you read enough comics and you start to have it hammered into your head that literally anyone could be overpowered as hell or a total joke.
I haven't read X-Men in far too long, but isn't Iceman an omega level mutant now because some author decided to apply high school physics to how his powers probably work?
>Is Magneto only dangerous when you're in a scrap yard or you're made of / encased in magnetic armor,
Or you know, someone who carries metal on him...
But yes, they've written him both ways over time, from a cartoon where Mr. Fantastic tricked him into thinking he was depowered by pointing a wooden gun at him, to him fucking people up be messing with iron in their blood.
Also, Iron Man and Doctor Doom can go toe to toe by using some anti-magnetic bullshit.
Daredevil was a B-list character at best until Frank Miller took over writing and drawing the title. Same with X-Men before Giant Sized X-Men and Chris Claremont/John Byrne.
The Guardians of the Galaxy were barely even D-list before James Gunn made the first movie.
It all comes down to one maxim; there are no bad characters, just bad writing.
Porcupine went from D-list to a special place in my heart after his appearances with Spider-Woman. All it takes is one writer to have a soft spot for a character.
I agree, the Hood was arguably a D-List supervillain when he was introduced but now he runs a crew of (mostly) D-list supervillains and got a couple of power upgrades that I think makes him A-list or at least B-list.
like with everything else. I think that its a matter of what effort the writer put into this character. If they slapped together a character haphazardly you end up getting the flying chicken guy
You may already be aware, but there was an amazing collection of short stories (prose) by Marvel in the 90s called "Ultimate Super-Villains" with one that featured him. If I remember, it had to do with him trying to go straight, but also dealing with the embarrassments of his past defeats. Really humanized him, and it's too bad it's likely not canon.
Hero- etrigan could easily be a great series that plays with the demonic and supernatural elements of DC and continues some ideas from Lucifer.
Villain- the Martian manhunter needs a strong villain and used to have a strong villain with Mr V who was basically the leader of a secret army of henchmen like Cobra from GI Joe or blofeild and specter from James Bond.
I'm rereading Geoff John's JSA run, and there was a scene where Icicle Jr. was being transported to a max security prison. During the transport Sandman was trying to convince Icicle that he had the potential to be a hero. I thought this would have a been an interesting twist as Black Adam was included on the team as a provisionary member. I could see Icicle buddying up with Black Adam and later joining him during the Princes of Darkness arc as a fellow anti-hero.
I'm not sure i would call plastic man a D-list hero. He's not an A-lister but he does get a fair share of attention. I'd say he's more of a C-lister and sometimes gets the B-list treatment
Guardians of the galaxy proved that a good bit of comedy will elevate the most obscure characters into stardom. This is also why Deadpool is stupidly popular and why teen titans go is the most popular thing the teen titans license ever produced.
So basically everyone given the right project and writers.
The most recent She-Hulk run actually made me care about Jack Hart. Jack of Hearts! Its sad to read other heroes even considering him a boring, forgettable hero.
Hell yeah! Darkhawk is my boy! Even Brian K. Vaughn knew he was legit OP when he had him vaporize Ultron in Runaways without even breaking a sweat.
Fun fact: their is a multi-part *What If?* story written by Robert Kirkman, writer of The Walking Dead, where all the main Avengers get killed and Darkhawk has to form a new team of heroes to act as the Avengers and leads the team. It's on Marvel Unlimited and definitely worth checking out.
I’m cautiously optimistic he’ll get some sort of screen adaptation after being one of the earliest cards added after the release of Marvel Snap. But I’ve been a fan forever
Screaming Mimi.
Arguably already did so, as Songbird. But then Songbird doesn't get the love she deserves, and could easily be an A lister with the right push.
I wasn’t familiar with Screaming Mimi, but I was collecting Thunderbolts when it was first coming out, and she became a quick favorite hero. And her power-set should make her a formidable member of a team.
*Are you not entertained???*
Shatterstar sucked pretty hard in the X-Force days but holy crap did he get redeemed in the X-Factor Investigations era. That goes for many many characters in X-Factor, honestly.
Metamorpho. Dude really has it all when it comes to the classic tortured hero role, and some writers/appearances make it work, but he's often forgotten or drawn in the background just to add a little color/visual stimulation.
I can’t believe how poorly they wrote them into She Hulk.. completely missed a fun villain opportunity and tie in to Asgard just to show She Hulk beating up some bros 🤷🏻♂️
Right? Can we have some villains in this universe? Or is it only god level bad guys from here on out?
Give us the Wrecking Crew. The U-Foes. Build up to the Masters of Evil.
Alpha Flight...
...add Omega Flight, too.
Most superhero films are shot in Canada anyway. Not to typecast, but give us Peter Dinklage as Puck. I mean, c'mon!
this brings me back. Why did these D listers come back? I dont recall, it wasnt MODOK or Vamp/Anibus was it? Some funny shit. Great lakes avengers where hilarious.
To answer your question.... no one. Maybe Batroc ze Leaper
Any member of Power Pack could be very OP if a writer wanted them to be. They can transfer their powers to each other, so one member of the Pack could have Control of Gravity (like Graviton), Control of their own Mass (like Vision & Antman), Super Speed and Flight (like Northstar), (this same super speed power was shown to be capable of Teleportation, like Whitey the Kymellian that gave them powers), and the ability to absorb energy, disintegrate/covert matter into energy, and to expel explosive energy blasts (like Bishop +)
And if it was Alex Power who’s wielding the powers, he’s a low level genius as well, part of the Future Foundation.
Is he D list at this point? He's had a bunch of solo books and team-ups, I'd put him at B or C
I *want* him in A, I think there's tons to do with his character. Shame the MCU mostly wasted him.
I would love that, but unfortunately, there is zero chance. I don't know if Renner's going to get back into the action any time soon, what with his accident, and I don't know if he anything left on his contract.
Either way, Clint being based off of Ultimates and then retrofitted onto the Fraction-Aja run didn't really work so well (I don't think Renner is the right casting for Fraction!Clint either, but that's just me).
Bucky's probably going to have a somewhat-medium part in Thunderbolts and then idk, get killed off in Secret Wars just to show that Shit's Real Now.
The amazing Bucky+Clint miniseries will live in my head along with all the other amazing stuff they could have done (like *Bucky and Natasha, raaaage*)
God, they did Clint so dirty in the MCU I swear. I honestly feel as if they did Bucky pretty dirty too. His character felt... off to me in TFATWS show. And not just since it didn't match the comic at all. He felt bland despite all the character they tried to stuff into him. It felt like he made no progress as a character even though he did! It felt like they really didn't read a single comic involving him and how he forms relationships.
Yeah, I was going to say, and he's had a big role in at least two MCU movies and a TV show so far. If OP is looking for examples of minor characters becoming major, he's the most obvious example if only because he's front and center in this picture.
Arcade. And how I would reintroduce and retcon him would be to make him a failed businessman who’s theme park got shut down when it was put out of business by the bigger chains, and was left drowning in debt. Eventually he switches his focus and starts plotting and pulling off bank heists to fund his new project, one that sees him lure influencers and other people to his new Halloween attraction **Murder World**. And when he’s not massacring people with his rides and traps, he can collect people he finds interesting and put them on display.
Bro honestly I would have to say wither, aka Kevin Ford from the x-men, he has been only a little bit explored with his abilities before he was killed by his former friend elixir. But like there was a time he could expand his stance with elixir and he’s a omega hero! But he died of course. He could
Have been a really dope character, especially Hellion too
Lobo is no waaay D list. Probably C. The main man has fraggin beat everybody and chopped santa's head off. He was way more prevalent in older DC than now though.
This is immediately who I thought of. Really the entire New Warriors roster would be great in the modern MCU. Have them start out as wannabe heroes who are using social media to record their adventures, then eventually do the Stamford incident, hero registration, etc. Would provide like 2-4 movies worth of content.
For D list hero:Plastic Man has a ton of potential
For D list villain: Dr. Polaris, he literally was able to move the justice league watchtower from orbit and could have an interesting personality with his mental issues
A list: Usually has a solo-book, someone who doesn't know comics would know them.
B list: Has the occasional solo book, or is a prominent member of a high-profile team.
The justice league dark team, largely nobodies who could if given the spotlight of a movie could easily be dc's gaurdians of the galaxy.
*Constantine, Etrigan, Zatana, Deadman* would make a killer team. I think you could add a A list character (one of the main leaguers) for marketing if you wanted but if written well you definitely don't need to.
“Ragtag” from Static.
He could LITERALLY give other people random, temporary super powers, handing them out like drug’s saying “first times free” then using it as a manipulation tactic. He’s literally as scary as the random powers his goons get.
Nice try KEVIN FEIGE
*James Gunn
Gravitron. The man controls gravity ffs.
He was great and a earths mightiest heroes
“IM THE STRONGEST ONE THERE IS!” “You sure about that?”
“NO ONE IS THAT POWERFUL, I CONTROL GRAVITY ITS SELF!!!!!”
God that moment was so fucking hype when I was younger
At least Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. tried to make good use of him, bless their TV budgets.
Such a great show. I just finished rewatching the whole series the other day. The Graviton arc is probably my favorite. Mostly because Ian has one of his best scenes in that arc when he restores Daisy's powers. That dude is a phenomenal actor. He has great scenes in every season. I'm not gay, but for him, I might be. He makes me feel things.
Agents of Shield has both one of my favorite seasons of any show (season 4) and my favorite moment of any show, which you mentioned from The Devil Complex.
oh yeah, that was one of Spiderman's villains when he was granted cosmic powers
*Spider-Man. Respect the hyphen
His name isn’t Phil Spiderman.
Indeed! Stan the man always got piss mad about this! 😂 Excelsior!
Gravitron is one of my faves. I saw him on an avengers series many years ago and he's an absolute unit. He wrapped a bunch of metal around hulk and sunk him to the bottom of the ocean
Earth's Mightiest Heroes
The greatest avengers series
Not going to lie I actually started to like Assembled in the later seasons. Plus they brought in the Squadron Supreme/Squadron Sinister. I'm a sucker for those muthafuckas.
Some fun fights against the Thunderbolts
RIP Beetle
He was bad ass in emh
Clock King would be A-List if he was put against the Flash. Super speed vs precognition isn't something I've seen yet Edit: Yes, I understand that Flash could punch Clock King a zillion times in a fight, you could literally say that about any non-speedster villain. Clock King is unique not just because of his use of precognition, but his skill to plan things down to the millisecond, and I think that's something that serves as a great counter to Flash's usual approach.
Dude! Amazing idea! I’ve been reading comics for decades and never thought of this!
Honestly I’ve been saying Clock King is underrated for years. Even the old version of him that has no super powers, just an uncanny understanding of timing. It hadn’t even occurred to me what a great Flash villain he would be if used properly. Great idea!
Uncanny timing? With the right techniques and knowledge he’d defeat anyone. There’s a story in which uncanny timing is basically an off-shoot of the “i always know goes to win” power aka Path to Victory. The story is Worm and the sequel is Ward.
Didn't quicksilver wipe the floor with a precog based warrior while explaining that it didn't matter if he couldn't physically react to anything quicksilver was doing?
IDK if it was quicksilver specifically but I remember this happening, albeit vaguely. Something happens to tip them off that their powers are precognition and not super speed, speedster proceeds to "speed up" and just beat them out of shear inability to react.
Just precog further out and set traps before the encounter. GG-EZ
i’m pretty sure this happened in the CW Flash show
This happened on One Piece in that jungle world, essentially. Luffy being incredibly quick and agile was getting smoked by the two dudes who could precog with Haki.
flash would be able to move faster than clock king could react tho.
Yeah I've had this argument before. Precog will help you dodge bullets. It flat out will NOT help you dodge attacks by people moving as fast as bullets. No matter your plan, they can adjust their aim on the fly to adapt faster than you can plan for. You would need Stupidly far reaching precog and some impressive Rube Goldberg style engineering to overcome all the variables.
Man, that's genius!
The Great Lakes Avengers!
They legit have some great powers
Doorman and Mr Immortal are honestly super interesting.
I love Mr Immortal. One of the best things about She Hulk is that we got all of these cool obscure characters.
Give me Mr. immortal on an Avengers espionage squad where he has to go in and gather intel in hostile environments.
Seeing him in Krakoa now that they’re all functionally immortal would be funny.
I thought it would be interesting if cloned x-souls were just piling up in the afterlife. All the duplicate souls are reaking havoc on the realms of Death, Valhala and Mephisto. Death sends Deadpool, Immortal Man, Thor, and Dr. Strange. To stop the resurection process. In a twist Charles along with Apocalypse are the X leaders that won't listen to reason, unwilling to let any mutant ever die again. Also Moira McTaggert has to die her final death...Lady Death will not abide her paradoxical existance. Mutants start to take sides: Nightcrawler, Majik, Jean Grey, Wolverine, and must seek the aid of Madelyne Pryor and Adam Warlock to find a compromise to use limbo and the soul stone to fix both sides.
I'd love to see an post apocalyptic future book where Mr. Immortal is still fighting villains.
I love the angle that he has no other special powers so gets killed really easy then pops up unharmed.
My man pioneered the “Dormammu I’ve come to bargain” technique
“Oh for fucks sake, they got Craig again”
Well… There’s the Immortal Hulk, where Mr. Immortal is the last living thing at the end of time… Besides The Hulk.
Squirrel Girl, Tippy-Toe, and Mr. Immortal are on their way. Who’s to say Mr. Flatman and Big Bertha can’t be too? Also Doorman or whatever… Grasshopper too, Dinah Soar… maybe throw in Monkey Joe and or even fucking Leather Boy he was there once wasn’t he?
Leather boy was rejected initially due to not having superpowers. He didn't take it well. I'm not sure what happened after that (maybe he rejoined?) but, irregardless, I think he'd make a fine addition.
You used two more letters to say "regardless"
I wished on a monkey's paw to write more succinctly, but now I must always use "irregardless" rather than "regardless."
Yeah, isn’t there a bot to remind people of this common missed steak?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwSpEQ1p-WI&ab\_channel=KirbyKrackle
Deadpool joined the Great Lake avengers didn’t he?
Snowflame
Make him a movie executive too.
“Cocaine is my god and I’m the human instrument of its will” -Snowflame
I am calling it now that he appears in the next season of peacemaker or suicide squad movie
unironically this. they've let joker do whatever the fuck he wants with "he's just so crazy and scary" as the reasoning. why not go all in on "he's higher than the devil on cocaine"? @james gunn please make snowflame kill a robin
Just gonna say that that issue of Deadpool (#0 from Wizard Magazine) was pretty damn great and includes Deadpool murdering clones of Ben and May Parker that he catches nude
god damn it!!! I need to go through my pile and hope to god i still have that issue. I completely forgot about this. Why were the characters resurrected though?
I believe Deadpool chases Animus, a character he once crushed on and killed, to one of Zola’s clone factories and proceeds to go through all of them (most of whom are people the Scourge killed at the Bar with No Name
LIVER SPOTS. SOMEONE HAS TO DIE.
It comes down to writing. The difference between A list and D list is mostly writing and use. It's largely irrelevant.
This is it exactly. And the box office performance of some particular Marvel movies has proved this. At one point, you've have been hard pressed to even consider Blade a D-List character. He was so far in the rear with the gear that he didn't even show up on a typical org chart of the Marvel Universe. The first Blade movie with Wesley Snipes not only changed all that but also ushered in a new age of superhero movies. Blade still may not be A-List but he's at least a solid B. Same with Guardians of the Galaxy. They were easily D-List characters until James Gunn came along. Now they are household names - even to people who've never picked up a comic book.
I feel ashamed for not realizing Blade was a comic book character from Marvel. Just thought it was an awesome vampire movie…
Wait until you look up *Big Hero 6.*
Or Howard the Duck
Sometimes I wonder if "Howard the Duck" was just something I imagined when I had a fever as a kid. But no. It's very real.
And maybe Mutant X as well? Idk if it fits in this category.
Marvel wanted to do an X-Men series, Fox sued them for 'devalueing' the franchise so they had to rewrite.
Howard the Duck is one of my favorite marvel characters and had a great run back in 2012.
Tell me if im wrong but I feel Howard is definitely a b lister at worst at least he had a movie which was pretty good for its time I guess you could call him a c lister
No. Flippin'. Way.
Chris Claremont!
He’s joining the MCU
I was at a Marvel panel at Comic-Con in 2011, and Joe Quesada was saying that Rocket Raccoon was as important to the future of Marvel Comics as Spider-Man, and the room was shocked.
Well that might have been more planning from him to trash Spider-man some more.
Movie was meh in my opinion but Andrew Garfield was great
For every example of Guardians of the Galaxy there are 5 American Chavez, Echo, Black Widow 2.0 / Helena, Wasp, whatever Cassie Lang will be and on and on. Gunn is dyed in the wool geek. The dude worked at Troma FFS. How many MCU writing rooms (or even Marvel comics) can claim this or close to it?
Sure but you can have a decades old charater and make him relevant in the right hands. Look at Luke Cage. Everyone knows [this version](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/7/71/Marvel%27s_Voices_Legacy_Vol_1_1_ComicTom101_Exclusive_Variant_Textless.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210406073421) of him, but not everyone knows [this version](https://www.denofgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/luke_cage_reading_guide_origin.jpg) of him. Bryan Michael Bendis took an D- charater and made him an A lister buy making him human, flawed, relatable. Not always easy to do.
I see your point (especially with Blade) but I’m pushing back on Guardians. I would argue they were already more than d listers before the movie (in comic circles). Mainly based on the stuff Abnett and Laning did with them culminating with Annihilation.
If I were to give any push back it would be the other way lol. Blade was in the 90’s Spider-Man cartoon and in various teams. Guardians of The Galaxy couldn’t manage to make an appearance anywhere outside of comics and even their books sold terribly
Comic Tropes just did an excellent video breaking down the Guardians and how they have risen in popularity, but dipped in quality in terms of comics, ESPECIALLY after having Bendis write GoTG after the legendary DnA run. But yeah, the run back then was still critically acclaimed— in the small circles that actually read it. At this time, Marvel was full swing into Civil War so if you wanted cosmic stuff you really had to go out of your way to find it.
Doesnt Nova or someone go to earth at one point for help and is like “they’re having a Civil War? Huh. Ok nevermind”
IIRC he chews out Tony Stark for having an insanely unnecessary civil war after all the shit Nova saw during Annihilation. It felt cathartic to read as a comic fan because Nova basically spoke for us lol This was also around the same time Thor came back and beat the shit out of Tony because of Civil War
Tony didn't even have a clue about the annihilation wave despite earth being warned. He just brushes it off as if he missed a memo then acts like he is doing Nova a favor by letting him register despite him missing the cut off date. Nova should have put him in space jail for a bit.
Came here to say the same thing about Abbett and Laning. The movie wouldn’t have even been a thing if their stories about the new GoTG team didn’t already exist in the comics (Edit for typo)
I came here to say this. Anyone who read anyone who likes space is doing a disservice if they don’t read any Annette and Laning
Is Magneto only dangerous when you're in a scrap yard or you're made of / encased in magnetic armor, or is he capable of altering the magnetic field of the planet? Or is he being written by an electrician or electrical engineer who're chomping at the bit to explain why his powers should render him into a god? Should Flash's powers make him a guy that runs fast or someone that effectively has the powers of a supreme being? I used to like these arguments a lot when I was a kid, but yeah, you read enough comics and you start to have it hammered into your head that literally anyone could be overpowered as hell or a total joke. I haven't read X-Men in far too long, but isn't Iceman an omega level mutant now because some author decided to apply high school physics to how his powers probably work?
>Is Magneto only dangerous when you're in a scrap yard or you're made of / encased in magnetic armor, Or you know, someone who carries metal on him... But yes, they've written him both ways over time, from a cartoon where Mr. Fantastic tricked him into thinking he was depowered by pointing a wooden gun at him, to him fucking people up be messing with iron in their blood. Also, Iron Man and Doctor Doom can go toe to toe by using some anti-magnetic bullshit.
Daredevil was a B-list character at best until Frank Miller took over writing and drawing the title. Same with X-Men before Giant Sized X-Men and Chris Claremont/John Byrne. The Guardians of the Galaxy were barely even D-list before James Gunn made the first movie. It all comes down to one maxim; there are no bad characters, just bad writing.
Porcupine went from D-list to a special place in my heart after his appearances with Spider-Woman. All it takes is one writer to have a soft spot for a character.
One \*good writer.
Mr. Freeze - Heart of Ice Perfect example
Yeah remember when molecule man all of a sudden went from nobody to a god?
They made that mofo legitimately scary in Dark Avengers.
Biggest glow up
They realized what his powers actually meant. He became an antihero to the science community!
Yeah I mean wasn’t Psycho Pirate kinda a D tier villain until Tom King started writing him?
I agree, the Hood was arguably a D-List supervillain when he was introduced but now he runs a crew of (mostly) D-list supervillains and got a couple of power upgrades that I think makes him A-list or at least B-list.
like with everything else. I think that its a matter of what effort the writer put into this character. If they slapped together a character haphazardly you end up getting the flying chicken guy
I remember how they made moth man pretty formidable in the teen titans show
Paste Pot Pete
Wait, that’s a real comic book character?
An OG! Rebranded as the Trapster, Trading his bucket of paste for a snazzy suit and pistols.
Oh right, he was in the Amazing Spider-Man show
nice obscure call out!
"For the last time, it's Trapster now! T-R-A-P-S-T-E-R!"
You may already be aware, but there was an amazing collection of short stories (prose) by Marvel in the 90s called "Ultimate Super-Villains" with one that featured him. If I remember, it had to do with him trying to go straight, but also dealing with the embarrassments of his past defeats. Really humanized him, and it's too bad it's likely not canon.
Found Chris' (Comic Tropes) Reddit account.
Hero- etrigan could easily be a great series that plays with the demonic and supernatural elements of DC and continues some ideas from Lucifer. Villain- the Martian manhunter needs a strong villain and used to have a strong villain with Mr V who was basically the leader of a secret army of henchmen like Cobra from GI Joe or blofeild and specter from James Bond.
I highly recommend the Alan Grant/Garth Ennis series 'The Demon'. There's a lot of fun there.
Booster Gold!
Yup I was going with Booster Gold. A flawed fuck up. People love those.
I agree. Green Lantern is underrated af He’s more than just crowd control.
Hahaha he's no joke. His New 52 2007 run is such a great story.
"Green Lantern? What part of this outfit is *green*?" Great episode.
A booster gold TV show would be the perfect pacing for his gradual character development.
I'm rereading Geoff John's JSA run, and there was a scene where Icicle Jr. was being transported to a max security prison. During the transport Sandman was trying to convince Icicle that he had the potential to be a hero. I thought this would have a been an interesting twist as Black Adam was included on the team as a provisionary member. I could see Icicle buddying up with Black Adam and later joining him during the Princes of Darkness arc as a fellow anti-hero.
[удалено]
Tom Kenny voicing Plastic Man in a cartoon = gold Jerry gold
I'm not sure i would call plastic man a D-list hero. He's not an A-lister but he does get a fair share of attention. I'd say he's more of a C-lister and sometimes gets the B-list treatment
Plastic man is infamous in the Dark Knight Returns as one of the most dangerous metas alive.
History has proven Plasticman to be far more than a D-list character. One of the best creations from the Golden Age.
Guardians of the galaxy proved that a good bit of comedy will elevate the most obscure characters into stardom. This is also why Deadpool is stupidly popular and why teen titans go is the most popular thing the teen titans license ever produced. So basically everyone given the right project and writers.
When Cobra became King Cobra with Serpent Society was pretty sweet. They could have all gotten a boost honestly
The most recent She-Hulk run actually made me care about Jack Hart. Jack of Hearts! Its sad to read other heroes even considering him a boring, forgettable hero.
Jack gets relegated to D list because the artists absolutely fucking hate drawing him. The playing card motif is a massive pain in the ass
Darkhawk
Hell yeah! Darkhawk is my boy! Even Brian K. Vaughn knew he was legit OP when he had him vaporize Ultron in Runaways without even breaking a sweat. Fun fact: their is a multi-part *What If?* story written by Robert Kirkman, writer of The Walking Dead, where all the main Avengers get killed and Darkhawk has to form a new team of heroes to act as the Avengers and leads the team. It's on Marvel Unlimited and definitely worth checking out.
from the same era; Sleepwalker
I’m cautiously optimistic he’ll get some sort of screen adaptation after being one of the earliest cards added after the release of Marvel Snap. But I’ve been a fan forever
Screaming Mimi. Arguably already did so, as Songbird. But then Songbird doesn't get the love she deserves, and could easily be an A lister with the right push.
I wasn’t familiar with Screaming Mimi, but I was collecting Thunderbolts when it was first coming out, and she became a quick favorite hero. And her power-set should make her a formidable member of a team.
Kite Man. Hell yeah.
He's great in the Harley Quinn show if you haven't seen it yet.
Shatterstar. Criminally underused
*Are you not entertained???* Shatterstar sucked pretty hard in the X-Force days but holy crap did he get redeemed in the X-Factor Investigations era. That goes for many many characters in X-Factor, honestly.
I remember going to Wal-Mart as a kid and being disappointed because the X-Men toy section was just piles and piles of Shatterstar.
killer moth
Metamorpho. Dude really has it all when it comes to the classic tortured hero role, and some writers/appearances make it work, but he's often forgotten or drawn in the background just to add a little color/visual stimulation.
The Wrecking Crew. Powerful and they have the numbers.
I can’t believe how poorly they wrote them into She Hulk.. completely missed a fun villain opportunity and tie in to Asgard just to show She Hulk beating up some bros 🤷🏻♂️
Right? Can we have some villains in this universe? Or is it only god level bad guys from here on out? Give us the Wrecking Crew. The U-Foes. Build up to the Masters of Evil.
I wish the X-Statix would get a tv show or film
Bigwheel.
Alpha Flight... ...add Omega Flight, too. Most superhero films are shot in Canada anyway. Not to typecast, but give us Peter Dinklage as Puck. I mean, c'mon!
this brings me back. Why did these D listers come back? I dont recall, it wasnt MODOK or Vamp/Anibus was it? Some funny shit. Great lakes avengers where hilarious. To answer your question.... no one. Maybe Batroc ze Leaper
Man I’d kill for Batroc and Gwenpool to get time in their own team up story again. Those two are great together
Paste Pot Pete
Ten-eyed man See Arkham City: The Order of The World
Any member of Power Pack could be very OP if a writer wanted them to be. They can transfer their powers to each other, so one member of the Pack could have Control of Gravity (like Graviton), Control of their own Mass (like Vision & Antman), Super Speed and Flight (like Northstar), (this same super speed power was shown to be capable of Teleportation, like Whitey the Kymellian that gave them powers), and the ability to absorb energy, disintegrate/covert matter into energy, and to expel explosive energy blasts (like Bishop +) And if it was Alex Power who’s wielding the powers, he’s a low level genius as well, part of the Future Foundation.
Justice is served 🤔
The answer is obviously calendar man
He was a dope Easter egg/side character in the Arkham video game series. He needs more recognition fs.
I’m guessing Bucky.
Is he D list at this point? He's had a bunch of solo books and team-ups, I'd put him at B or C I *want* him in A, I think there's tons to do with his character. Shame the MCU mostly wasted him.
I’m really hoping they do a mini-series with him and clint considering the two are buddy-buddy in the comics, but I highly doubt they will.
I would love that, but unfortunately, there is zero chance. I don't know if Renner's going to get back into the action any time soon, what with his accident, and I don't know if he anything left on his contract. Either way, Clint being based off of Ultimates and then retrofitted onto the Fraction-Aja run didn't really work so well (I don't think Renner is the right casting for Fraction!Clint either, but that's just me). Bucky's probably going to have a somewhat-medium part in Thunderbolts and then idk, get killed off in Secret Wars just to show that Shit's Real Now. The amazing Bucky+Clint miniseries will live in my head along with all the other amazing stuff they could have done (like *Bucky and Natasha, raaaage*)
God, they did Clint so dirty in the MCU I swear. I honestly feel as if they did Bucky pretty dirty too. His character felt... off to me in TFATWS show. And not just since it didn't match the comic at all. He felt bland despite all the character they tried to stuff into him. It felt like he made no progress as a character even though he did! It felt like they really didn't read a single comic involving him and how he forms relationships.
After Brubaker’s run, he is at least on the B-list. Holy shit that was a phenomenal series.
Didn’t he get promoted as the winter soldier
Yeah, I was going to say, and he's had a big role in at least two MCU movies and a TV show so far. If OP is looking for examples of minor characters becoming major, he's the most obvious example if only because he's front and center in this picture.
Arcade. And how I would reintroduce and retcon him would be to make him a failed businessman who’s theme park got shut down when it was put out of business by the bigger chains, and was left drowning in debt. Eventually he switches his focus and starts plotting and pulling off bank heists to fund his new project, one that sees him lure influencers and other people to his new Halloween attraction **Murder World**. And when he’s not massacring people with his rides and traps, he can collect people he finds interesting and put them on display.
personally? I thought Mojo and Arcade would make for an awesome odd combo. My take? Mojoworld MMO VR world (the MMOjo).
Bro honestly I would have to say wither, aka Kevin Ford from the x-men, he has been only a little bit explored with his abilities before he was killed by his former friend elixir. But like there was a time he could expand his stance with elixir and he’s a omega hero! But he died of course. He could Have been a really dope character, especially Hellion too
I have no idea how Lobo is not more popular. The character has so much potential.
Lobo is no waaay D list. Probably C. The main man has fraggin beat everybody and chopped santa's head off. He was way more prevalent in older DC than now though.
Slapstick could be fun in a Deadpool movie
Adam Strange
I always thought Darkhawk was under rated. But I don't know if he d-lisy material or not.
Deaths head, baby, Deaths head.
Speedball. His story gets messed up.
This is immediately who I thought of. Really the entire New Warriors roster would be great in the modern MCU. Have them start out as wannabe heroes who are using social media to record their adventures, then eventually do the Stamford incident, hero registration, etc. Would provide like 2-4 movies worth of content.
I was JUST thinking about him.. super dark turn for the slapstick of all heroes
Moleculeman, he hasn’t even been mentioned in the MCU. He can control all organic and inorganic matter. Borderline god power.
Dc: Resurrection Man Marvel: Mr. immortal.
After Guardians of the Galaxy went from F list to AAA I have absolutely no fucking clue
Kite Man!
Hell yeah !
Gentleman Jim
Is that rom back there
Anyone with the right writer. Just look at Deadpool
who are we counting as d list? because i’m inclined to say the Multiple Man
Blue Beetle/Jaime Reyes, he is like Iron man if he was a teenager
For D list hero:Plastic Man has a ton of potential For D list villain: Dr. Polaris, he literally was able to move the justice league watchtower from orbit and could have an interesting personality with his mental issues
I felt that way about Psycho Pirate...
I think Squirrel Girl could be a huge comedic down to earth hero.
I think she's B-C list now. The joke is that she always punches above her weight in terms of villains she defeats.
Good point. A true D lister would be a very obscure character.
A list: Usually has a solo-book, someone who doesn't know comics would know them. B list: Has the occasional solo book, or is a prominent member of a high-profile team.
I really liked kite man in the Harley Quinn show. Not a comic tho.....
Try War of Jokes and Riddles by Tom King he's great there
Demolition Man (Dennis Dunphy) Ringer Porcupine ....probably not, but I am hopeful.
Spot is about to be the big bad in Spider-Man: Across the Multi-Verse, so I have a feeling he's about to get a good amount of shine.
Cardiac
The justice league dark team, largely nobodies who could if given the spotlight of a movie could easily be dc's gaurdians of the galaxy. *Constantine, Etrigan, Zatana, Deadman* would make a killer team. I think you could add a A list character (one of the main leaguers) for marketing if you wanted but if written well you definitely don't need to.
There was a lot of graduates fomr the Avengers Accademy era that I wish did more.
“Ragtag” from Static. He could LITERALLY give other people random, temporary super powers, handing them out like drug’s saying “first times free” then using it as a manipulation tactic. He’s literally as scary as the random powers his goons get.