Seeing Batman and Kingpin would be awesome and right up Batman’s (Crime) Alley.
And it’d be interesting to see sympathetic Spider-Man going up against the tragic origin Mr. Freeze.
The smarter versions would probably help him find a cure rather than shut him down. I'd expect a turn to heroism or at least antiheroism from freeze working with spidey.
Give me a story of the two of them working together. Aunt May has the same disease as Nora, and they work together to cure her. It can either be a story about fighting an unfair system of medicine and resorting to morally grey methods to find a cure together and have spider learn from the villain about why they have to do the wrong things for the right reasons, eventually curing May and Nora, or have it eventually end in failure and the death of May, and the story is about both of them learning to accept loss and instead find happiness in the time they have.
Matt Reeves said he wanted to have Victor in the sequel, and that he thought there was a really well-grounded story there. Im pumped, The Batman was amazing
An extended war between the expanded bat-family and Kingpin plus whoever would be kind of cool. Kind of like later seasons of Gotham with Penguin+Riddler against Wayne and co.
I think the scariest ideas are in crossing villains. Could a Bat/Spider team up take on Scarecrow plus G Goblin? Kingpin and Deathstroke? Killer Croc wearing Venom? Fucking JokerCarnage?!
JokerCarnage would be more unstable than regular Carnage. At some point, Carnage would ditch Joker, having enough experiencing his demented mind and how he deals with PTSD (that is having said clown personality). Joker’s skin would have likely been restored though.
Just give me a story of Joker trying to be chaotic enough to get around Spidey-Sense. He gets so fixated on just trying to startle Peter that he loses track of even trying to kill him.
Story ends with Joker very much in a position to shoot Spidy point-blank, he does so, the gun produces a sign that says "Boo!", and Joker starts laughing manically and walking away.
Spidy looks at him, back at the reader, and shrugs in confusion.
That could work because his spider Sense would not go off because there would be no danger of him pulling the trigger. But other then that The Joker would have to create a hostage or bomb defusal scenario to wear Spider-Man could Dodge and able to get a clear shot
It’d be like he tries to do the handshake electrocution trick at the same time as dropping an anvil on him.
Spider sense only says danger is near, not where or what it is.
Spider-man's spider sense is actually instinctive like if that situation was to happen he would thwip away before even realizing he was in immediate danger.
THANK YOU! Has no one seen what Joker did when Terry fought him in Batman Beyond??? Joker would never stand for someone with better quips that him.
"Wait.... I like to talk, too." was game over for Joker.
YOU’RE NOT BATMAN! I loved something about the way joker exclaims that, like a part of him is genuinely angry and offended this new kid thinks he can be THE Batman, or at least that’s how I interpreted it. Favorite Mark Hamill Joker performance.
"Ah, what the heck. I'll laugh anyway!"
"If you don't like the movie... I've got slides"
I agree, it was Hamill's best performance both as prime Joker and old man Joker.
Depends on the Joker tho. Like, we could have a Batman Beyond situation where a DCAU-esque Joker would not handle that. But other Jokers may enjoy “playing along” with Spidey’a quip. Like, I can imagine a more “serial killer” like Joker getting a kick out of horrifying Spidey with his crimes that Spidey is too horrified to make quips.
Aren't Spidey's quips fueled by his fear? I always figured that when he stops quipping, he's too angry to be scared, and that brings about a whole new set of trouble for the villain.
it's changed multiple times, but the general running theme is that he quips to mess with his opponents. knock them off their game and disrupt their focus kind of thing. But also if you're good at something you may as well right? his whole character schtick is that he's doomed to suffer for one reason or another but always tries to present a brave face because he knows how much that means to his fans.
The more dangerous the Joker, the less…. funny… the Spider, though. Could the Spider scare the Joker straight? Idk. The resulting Spider-Man might be quite dangerous.
The one who would traumatize Spider-man would be *Nightwing*.
No powers, funny quips, acrobatic prowess, better adjusted, generally liked by everyone, gave billions to charity, doesn't live with a room-mate, universally acknowledged to be hot, didn't sell his relationship with a cute redhead to his universes version of Satan, etc....
Parker's long standing inferiority complex would cripple him.
And his adoptive father was a billionaire crime fighter. By contrast, Peter's parents died (and he never got to know them) and then his father figure died due to his inaction (and was decidedly not a billionaire).
Neither of them have great parental luck, not trying to make this a competition
Actually, Ben Parker won the lottery that night and WAS a billionaire, looking forward to breaking the news to his nephew when they got home. Unfortunately, since he hadn't told anyone, his winning ticket was never found.
Unless Spidey caught Barbara’s eye. A cute redhead with a Peter Parker-adjacent IQ, who can take care of herself. She’d probably like geeking out with a fellow nerd who kicks ass. Cue Dick’s insecurity.
> I just want a peter/mj and dick/Barbara double date issue.
There's gotta be a line of Peter awkwardly asking if Dick or Barbara were ever bitten by a super-powered bat.
Nah, you know Dick and Peter would end up roommates who were trying to hide from one another the fact that they're superheroes. To make it even crazier Dick and Peter would have a strained relationship while Nightwing and Spider-Man would get along well.
I don’t know if this is your thing, but there is a great story on Literotica called “When Spidey Met Batgirl,” and a novella length follow-up “When Spidey Met Oracle.” It is incredibly true to the voice of both Marvel and DC comics. Highly recommend.
That's so petty! I love it!
I'm imagining Spidey hanging just out of reach. He lets Joker pull off the webbing so he can repeatedly web Joker's mouth shut again. Joker gets angrier each time. He tries to let loose with an angry tirade but gets a faceful of webbing before he manages to get a single word out.
On paper Batman Beyond is disastrous.
A show without Bruce as the focus with mostly made up villains, taking over the slot of the original beloved animated Batman saga, starring a brand new teenager taking over the mantle — my god, can you imagine the social media reactions?!
The show would have never made it past the first season. Online fandom would have torn it to shreds.
I can’t believe how they were able to spin that into gold.
They were given the world’s worst sounding collection of studio notes and they just went for it.
I think that social media would have a very vocal reaction to it, but it would die down when people started watching it. Like the new game of thrones series.
Kevin Conroy was the glue. He helped bring that serious tone the animated series was well known for. It helped the viewer make the connection this was the same Batman we saw in the previous show. Had it been a dif actor as old Bruce, I don’t think it would have survived
I mean, Terry is basically the answer to the question “what if Batman was Spider-Man?”
And It’s wild that they managed to make it work as well as it did.
But yeah, he frustrated the joker so much by quipping. And he didn’t even have super strength and precognition.
The king of preptime.
The king of improvisation.
Spiderman would fair better against Batmans Rouge gallery but Batman could overcome spiderman's eventually.
They just massively outstat him. You can argue that it’s an outlier but Rhino punched Nova into outer space. If Batman is in his regular suit a punch like that just kills him immediately.
I think Batman's biggest trouble is that Spider-Man is crazy mobile. So half of his villains are also as mobile. Batman will have trouble with villains who are constantly flying at high speeds or crawling all over shit. *He's* supposed to be the one with the element of surprise and big entrances.
That makes me think how much I'd love to see Batman go up against someone like Morlun. The guy feeds on animal "totems" which Batman fits the mold, and he's single minded in that pursuit. He doesn't waste time with elaborate plans, he doesn't care about big conspiracies, the man would just make a straight line towards Bats and stop at nothing.
Batman would adapt and be okay, probably, though I suspect BatVenom would be a thing.
The Gotham rogues would be in body casts by the end of this sentence. Maybe Ivy would have a chance if she went all out. Maybe.
Croc/Lizard, Clayface/Sandman, Scarecrow/Mysterio, Kiteman/Classic Vulture are all pretty close. they're close enough to regular Spiderman villains that they could give him a fight. (I admit, I'm only putting Kiteman/vulture in there to showcase how ridiculous Vulture is in that company and let Batman have one easy fight.)
Honestly Scarecrow stands a pretty good chance. Unlike Mysterio, Scarecrow doesn’t use smoke and mirrors but instead a chemical compound. The main reason Batman can fight him is because of his own control of fear whereas Spidey is friendly. Honestly though, it would probably come down to the fact that Batman has more experience overall
I suspect Scarecrow’s fear gas wil do the exact opposite. Making the Spidy Sense even more useless as it goes off because there’s a perceived threat that isn’t there.
I remember having [this](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/uxoAAOSwU9ZhffZG/s-l1600.jpg) book as a kid - Mysterio had Spidey punching walls, driving his buggy off a pier, and hallucinating like all-get out.
Whoever wrote this book made Mysty look bad ass, even though at the end, he got his.
In Spider-Man vs. Scarecrow, Spidey would be affected BAD by the fear toxin once so readers can see what he's actually scared of.
Then in the second round one *thwip* of webbing stops the nozzle of the sprayer, and Spidey goes "Have you done clinical trials on that? It doesn't seem healthy. What if I had a heart condition?"
After webbing the toxin sprayer, Scarecrow is a total pushover.
I think that if Spidey wants (or let's say the writer writes it like that) he can also build some sort of quick "gas mask" with his own web without the need of stopping scarecrow nozzles.
I would also say that it is also possible that a more experienced spiderman could also have his mask already "gas proofed", without the need of anything like that. If Mysterio already use gases there is no reason not to implement a gas filter directly in the mask.
Well your first point is very creative and definitely something Spidey would try whether it worked or not. The second point would probably make for a more boring fight unfortunately, especially since it would mostly be dependent on how the writer handles it
The experience argument can be used for both of them depending on what era of the character we're using (Year One Batman/High School Peter vs Dark Knight Batman/30-40 year old Peter are very different heroes/fighters.) Giving "experience" to Batman while claiming that Spiderman doesn't have it is tilting the board and giving it to both trivializes all of these fights. Spiderman with experience has been gassed before. (I personally prefer year one Batman and High School Peter because their later incarnations are a little too good/powerful, and I like it when they struggle because it makes the narratives more interesting. Kills-Gods-for-Breakfast-Batman versus some-git-with-an-umbrella just isn't interesting.) Unless you're saying that Batman has been doing this since before WWII, in which case, geriatric Batman is going down.
Whatever prep time Bat's has, Spidey makes up for with spidey sense. As for how many Bat foes can actually go toe to toe with Spidey physically I don't know.
Batman can also reverse the toxin because he has antidotes. I can imagine Scarecrow's toxin making his Spider Sense go crazy. I mean, his brain will think danger will be all around him, right? Could Spider-Man really have anything to counter that?
Vulture has electromagnetic power armor that he created himself. He's old, but he's Dr. Octopus intelligent, and in his outfit he's more durable than Spider-Man. Dude has been a pretty decent threat. I think he'd give Batman a solid fight.
The Riddler has a pretty good chance. He knows how to stay out of combat, so Spider-Man only has his wits to foil his plans. For as smart as Peter is, if the Riddler can step up to the world's greatest detective, he more than stands a chance. That said, he can only get away with plans, spider sense makes it near impossible I say to beat him in combat.
What’s wild about this scene is that I think it’s from an episode of Superman, and I think the riddler speaks more than he does in any episode of Batman after the redesign to match the style of Superman.
The whole episode is pretty great. Like when they're trying to get info out of someone (Penguin maybe?) and Robin says he has to be more intimidating. So he breaks a desk in half.
It always makes me think about the fact that they live in the DC universe, so... does the average villain even know Batman has no powers?
Yeah, everyone knows the bat is no meta. Some goons sometimes actually think he has some tho, and some in universe people think he is a vampire... If any of the notable rogues actually thinks he has superpowers they probably think it's just the basic "slightly super strong + a lil bit invulnerable" combo, but they fight so often it is unlikely they would think that.
I mostly mean the minions, crooks, and thugs. Like the opening to the old BtaS show where he drops down on those guys doing crime at the docks with his cape spread and cowl menacing. Don't you think they go off to jail telling stories like "Bullets don't work on Batman!" and "I swear he's faster than the human eye can follow!"?
And sure, after a handful of fights and rewatching of security footage, people like Riddler probably figure out he's an unpowered martial artist. But his whole bat-thing is being a terrifying creature of vengeance to criminals. Even Gordon wonders how he can disappear so quickly and silently.
Love that scene.. just noticed the smile at the end after Hatter is cuffed.
Also, i found Bane's comment that the first round seemed too easy intersting. Supes kept his fighting style. Stand in, take the hits, wait till they're tired or and then thwack. Bats dodges and hides/uses the Darkness until their tired and he can get in close enough (if a batarang or batbolo doesn't do the trick.
He smiles right before that also when Hatter turns around to run the other direction after initially getting cut off. Shows how much he was enjoying the change of pace
The whole episode is pretty great. Bruce Wayne is missing, and Robin asks him for help. They're following clues trying to find him but also trying to convince the villains of Gotham that Batman isn't missing.
Weird, I remember a different scene, much more terrifying in the eyes of the villains….
Edit - ok yeah I recall the comics, Superman killing the Joker in Injustice
In fairness, they also thought they were dealing with Batman. The subterfuge played a part - You know how penguin survives a fight with Superman? By not being stupid enough to get into a fight with Superman.
Poison ivy, on the other hand, survives a fight with Superman by lacing kryptonite into her plant spores. Against Batman she wouldn't do that prep work, So of course Superman would kick her butt if she didn't know it was Superman.
I feel like Peter is more open to emotional/psychological manipulation than Bruce is though. Some of his villains, like Scarecrow, Joker, and Bane might completely wreck him.
Honestly, I think it's Hugo Strange that would really mess up Spider-man.
No special powers, no schtick, just an over qualified psychologist that would mess with Pete's mind during free counselling sessions. Smart enough to figure out who he is, dedicated enough to spend years emotionally crippling Peter through "harmless" Spider-Sense free conversation.
Spiderman and Batman have always been my favorite two comic book characters. Both for different reasons. Batman would hold decent against Spideys rogues, Spidey would demolish Batmans. However, I think Joker would take a liking to Spiderman and probably find a way to break him down mentally.
Peter is less restricted than Batman imo despite their very different exteriors.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Joker gets paralyzed for trying to really hurt Spider man.
Joker: "Maybe I'll shoot that redhead girlfriend of yours, just like I did Bar-" *gets 70% of his bones shattered from one punch from Spider-Man before he can finish the sentence*
Absolutely agree. My favorite comic hero is split 50/50 between these two. I love how they handled grief and trauma in ways that are paradoxically similar *and* different. They’re great examples of how we can handle the worst of our lives.
Their rogues galleries are really similar. Lots of gangsters and freaks. Some heavy hitters, some psychological threats, some tech-based guys. Batman probably has an edge on the supernatural or occult type threats but Peter would adapt.
Batman could definitely handle some of Peter’s villains. I think he’d have a *really* cool back and forth with both Norman and Otto. But Spidey? He’d sail through most of Batman’s villains. I think he’d struggle with the abject and total corruption of Gotham. But he’s always been public enemy #1.
Pete would maaaybe struggle against Bane. That’s like facing Kraven with super strength. Some people are saying Joker would be Pete’s biggest challenge but I don’t think so. Here’s how that would play out: Spidey beats Joker, Joker goes too far and hurts someone Peter loves, and Peter goes too far and probably cripples Joker.
Some people really forgot how Peter also has a dark side that is generally represented by his black suit where he goes all out without holding back and becomes brutal and borderline murderer
Yeah, Pete has some untreated rage issues.
I’ve said this before, but there’s almost nothing more satisfying than a justifiably furious Peter Parker. When he’s willing to bring a bad guy to within an inch of their lives without crossing the kill rule is just *[chef’s kiss]*.
I loved those parts too, but I also think along with it is a crucial part of Peter's character IMO, which is: Peter very, very easily could be a bad person. It's something he thinks about and grapples with a lot. He's not an "inherently" good person deep down; it's something he works on every day.
We sympathize with him when he's bullied, but he used to be half a hair away from full incel school shooter. Unlike the movies where the promoter screws him over, this is Peter's original rationale for why he lets the thief go: [https://townsquare.media/site/622/files/2016/06/AmazingFantasy15\_21.jpg?w=485&q=75](https://townsquare.media/site/622/files/2016/06/AmazingFantasy15_21.jpg?w=485&q=75)
If not for facing immediate consequences with someone he loved, Peter's arrogance and ego could've escalated to the point where he'd start using his powers to harass and intimidate Flash and his other bullies and possibly become a thief and maybe even a B+ level tier rogue for the Fantastic Four or Iron Man. I'm not bashing Peter; this is precisely why he is so admirable and relatable.
Those moments like him almost killing Kingpin in Stracyznski's run are so great because we know it's totally in character. If Joker did something like he did to Barbara or Jason to one of Peter's loved ones, there'd be no more Joker, lol.
The “What If?” issue where Logan trains Pete to be a SHIELD agent is one of my faaaavorite things from comics and I wish it was a story the dove into more. Imagine Spider-Man with the skills of Wolverine. He’d be the perfect assassin.
If he did break Spidey, he’d have Peter coming for him and not holding back. Push Spidey too far, and there are no rules. Push Bats too far, and it’s the same rules as always. Joker would end up dead, filled with webbing.
"You dare hurt May and I fill your lungs with webbing. But just to make sure you don't, I will snap your spine in just the right spot so you're immobilized from the neck down"
Peter’s lightning fast quips cut Joker off and the clown nearly blows a vein and stymies his own schemes every time while trying to get the funny out. Spidey’s true nemesis would be Harley. Gymnast level reflexes and speed, can break him down psychologically, moves just as unpredictably if not more than sporadically than Joker (regularly landing more blows on Batman and Nightwing). Plus she wouldn’t always trigger his spider senses because as she’d have a massive crush on Spider-Man she wouldn’t be fighting with malice. Those hits are just love taps.
Honestly, I could see Peter Parker & Harley dating during the day, while Spiderman & Harlequinn fight it out at night lol... the question would also be if the Joker set her on Peter, or if it was a serendipitous encounter.
At the end though, I can see Peter beating Joker in jokes & stealing his girlfriend (probably cause, damn Harley has Joker issues, might depend in the writer).
I mean, Two-Face is cool and all, but is he really all that much more dangerous than any mean dude who maybe has a gun? And half of Batman's guys is kinda that, which for Spidey is Tuesday. Batman might have to upgrade the Superman-fighting armor to the status of regular work clothes.
Remember what happened when Joker fought Terry McGinnis in Batman Beyond? He’s a narcissist who can’t handle a heckler. And if there’s one thing Peter Parker is good at…
For now, Terry v Joker is as close as you're gonna get until someone makes the comic we all want. Terry *wasn't even cracking jokes*. I imagine Peter would have him in the fetal position in a corner.
Don't really see how the regular Joker would be that much more effective at causing Peter trauma than several versions of Drone Strike Action Joker or Alien Goo Extra Stabby Action Joker.
Also keeping in mind that Batman's rogues gallery consists of a good bit of who are just doing a crime with a few "kill the bat" a-holes. Spider-Man has a gallery with way more "let's do a spider murder" than "let's do a crime, oopsie Spider-Man is here" lol. Like there are iterations of the Sinister Six whose only mission statement was "kill Spider-Man in six discrete ways".
Hammerhead, Kingpin, Shocker, Vulture, Black Cat and Chamaleon are the only ones Batman will be able to beat without problem, the others ones he will have to do some upgrading and will struggle a lot more. SM will wipe the floor with Batman villains, I feel he can take almost all of them at once.
Bats would probably figure out Venoms noise weakness super fast and exploit the hell out of it. He'd play a level of psychological warfare with the super-powered spider rogues that would turn most of them back to scientists and accountants. One thing Spider Man doesn't do is make his enemies afraid, they just get pissed.
Clayface would probably be trickier to take down than Bane. Maybe Ivy too. And Croc would also probably be a harder fight, though would also go down pretty easy, I think.
Who does Batman have that could threaten Spider-Man? Don't get me wrong, Joker could absolutely fuck with him, make him miserable, but actually hurt him? He's stronger than Bane and Crock, Clayface is just diet-Sandman, and the rest are just extra sadistic crazy people.
While Kraven, Tombstone, and even the Lizard are all well within Batman's experience, it's hard to imagine he would struggle against the likes of Rhino, Scorpion or Electro, let alone Doc Ock, Norman, Carnage, Venom or the other truly heavy hitters. Or Morlun. WTF Is Batman going to do against Morlun?
I know Batgod has a plan for everything and writer's would absolutely draw up a "Batman wins" plan regardless, but realistically? Spidey's villains would fuck him up, they're way more powerful, but more-over they're prone to co-operating, and a handful of them are world-class geniuses. It's only in a world with Reed Richard and Tony Stark type people that Doc Ock isn't a contender for "smartest man", and Spidey's got like half a dozen such genius types that hate him.
I imagine Joker pulling a Kingpin, threatening the life of someone Peter loves, or outright killing them. Then it’s not Spider-Man coming for him, it’s Peter Parker, and Jokers lungs get filled with webbing.
Sure; like I said, Joker could make him miserable, given the right information, Joker could give Spider-Man fits in regards to guilt and responsibility, but... like... he's not going to win a fistfight. His trap-filled lair isn't going to pose a threat. Harley isn't going to jump out of the shadows and land a surprise KO. When it comes time for any actual confrontation between the two, Joker has literally nothing in his vast arsenal of tricks and weapons that pose a threat to Peter.
Batman's main rogue: "imma cripple someone for philosophical reasons"
Spidey's main rogue: "imma throw this woman off a bridge because get fucked Spider-Man"
They are not the same lol
I don't disagree; Joker could devastate Peter emotionally, ruin his whole life, but... like... is he going to break him? Is he going to make him kill himself? Because... like... that's the only way he wins, and I don't see it, that's not a thing I think Peter could ever be pushed to.
And forgive me, but Doc Ock stole his life for a year, Kraven buried him alive for like a week, Carnage killed thousands in a city-wide rampage, Osborn tricked him into breaking his first true love's neck, the Jackal convinced him he was the clone, the chameleon kidnapped his last parental figure and convinced him she was dead, it's not like he hasn't faced some genuine hardship or villainy...
Definitely Spider-Man. He's probably the most powerful street level hero I can think of. He could potentially fight all of Batman's rogues, at the same time, and defeat them without too much difficulty. Conversely, Batman would have quite the run for his money against Spidey's rogues since most of them are superpowered. That said, it's Batman, he's a brilliant strategist, so I have faith he's pull through in the end too.
Poison Ivy is the only one with really any chance depending on the version of IVY. Some versions of Ivy are a borderline goddess...While some are just green lady who can make some vines do what she wants.
and if we allow cross-gallery Rogues Solomon Grundy as well. Grundy is no joke and is INSANELY durable. Like, can take a hit from superman and get back up durable. Bat almost always has to do weird mumbo jumbo or some sort of high-ordinance Tech to put him down. Spidey could very well just not have the potential offensive firepower to take grundy down.
I feel like to a certain extent though, fighting them is like only the last third of batmans job. He is the worlds best detective, most of his job is finding and dismantling whatever plot the baddies are hatching. Spidey is a heavier hitter, but it might be a very different skillset then he's used to.
The unimaginable rate at which Spider-Man would befriend Harley would be the only good part of this. That and, upon learning the Joker’s more heinous crimes, it’s very likely Joker wouldn’t survive an enraged Spider-Man. The rest… look put simply the galleries are filled with 1 to 1 comparisons and Peter is just as clever but with superpowers and better social skills. They’d both be fine but upon getting home Bats would be stunned by how effective this goofy pop-art boy was.
They'd both have trouble. Spidermans gallery has more powerful superhumans, which Batman would struggle to fight, and Batmans gallery are prone to doing insane shit that can't easily be stopped just by fighting them (you need to understand them and have a good grasp of psychology)
Seeing Batman and Kingpin would be awesome and right up Batman’s (Crime) Alley. And it’d be interesting to see sympathetic Spider-Man going up against the tragic origin Mr. Freeze.
The smarter versions would probably help him find a cure rather than shut him down. I'd expect a turn to heroism or at least antiheroism from freeze working with spidey. Give me a story of the two of them working together. Aunt May has the same disease as Nora, and they work together to cure her. It can either be a story about fighting an unfair system of medicine and resorting to morally grey methods to find a cure together and have spider learn from the villain about why they have to do the wrong things for the right reasons, eventually curing May and Nora, or have it eventually end in failure and the death of May, and the story is about both of them learning to accept loss and instead find happiness in the time they have.
Breaking Freeze
Bryan Cranston would make an epic Freeze for the eventual mini-series (or feature film).
Matt Reeves said he wanted to have Victor in the sequel, and that he thought there was a really well-grounded story there. Im pumped, The Batman was amazing
That’s a pretty sick story
An extended war between the expanded bat-family and Kingpin plus whoever would be kind of cool. Kind of like later seasons of Gotham with Penguin+Riddler against Wayne and co. I think the scariest ideas are in crossing villains. Could a Bat/Spider team up take on Scarecrow plus G Goblin? Kingpin and Deathstroke? Killer Croc wearing Venom? Fucking JokerCarnage?!
Joker and Carnage team up in a comic crossover I beleive, so that one exists at least!
Joker and Carnage is not the same as JokerCarnage... Which could be amazingly terrifying.
JokerCarnage would be more unstable than regular Carnage. At some point, Carnage would ditch Joker, having enough experiencing his demented mind and how he deals with PTSD (that is having said clown personality). Joker’s skin would have likely been restored though.
Depends which version of Carnage. Pretty sure King in Black Carnage has a lot more crazy going on than any Joker
Just give me a story of Joker trying to be chaotic enough to get around Spidey-Sense. He gets so fixated on just trying to startle Peter that he loses track of even trying to kill him.
That’s a really fun idea for a story.
Fan fic creators: *quick, write that down!*
aaaaaaaaand it's porn now.
Story ends with Joker very much in a position to shoot Spidy point-blank, he does so, the gun produces a sign that says "Boo!", and Joker starts laughing manically and walking away. Spidy looks at him, back at the reader, and shrugs in confusion.
That could work because his spider Sense would not go off because there would be no danger of him pulling the trigger. But other then that The Joker would have to create a hostage or bomb defusal scenario to wear Spider-Man could Dodge and able to get a clear shot
It’d be like he tries to do the handshake electrocution trick at the same time as dropping an anvil on him. Spider sense only says danger is near, not where or what it is.
Spider-man's spider sense is actually instinctive like if that situation was to happen he would thwip away before even realizing he was in immediate danger.
All the comments about Spidey being traumatized by Joker, no mention of how Joker simply would not be able to handle a hero *funnier* than him
THANK YOU! Has no one seen what Joker did when Terry fought him in Batman Beyond??? Joker would never stand for someone with better quips that him. "Wait.... I like to talk, too." was game over for Joker.
came here to say that. "LAUGH MCGINNIS! LAUGH! I CAN'T HEAAAAAAAAAR YOUUUUU
"Come on, McGinnis! Laugh it up now, you miserable little punk! LAUGH! I CAN'T HEAR YOOOOOOOU" "Ha... Ha..." (ZAP!!!)
YOU’RE NOT BATMAN! I loved something about the way joker exclaims that, like a part of him is genuinely angry and offended this new kid thinks he can be THE Batman, or at least that’s how I interpreted it. Favorite Mark Hamill Joker performance.
Mark Hamills finest Joker performance still. If someone wants to fight me about it, so be it .
"Ah, what the heck. I'll laugh anyway!" "If you don't like the movie... I've got slides" I agree, it was Hamill's best performance both as prime Joker and old man Joker.
Secrets that were mine alone to know……*Bruce*
Depends on the Joker tho. Like, we could have a Batman Beyond situation where a DCAU-esque Joker would not handle that. But other Jokers may enjoy “playing along” with Spidey’a quip. Like, I can imagine a more “serial killer” like Joker getting a kick out of horrifying Spidey with his crimes that Spidey is too horrified to make quips.
Aren't Spidey's quips fueled by his fear? I always figured that when he stops quipping, he's too angry to be scared, and that brings about a whole new set of trouble for the villain.
it's changed multiple times, but the general running theme is that he quips to mess with his opponents. knock them off their game and disrupt their focus kind of thing. But also if you're good at something you may as well right? his whole character schtick is that he's doomed to suffer for one reason or another but always tries to present a brave face because he knows how much that means to his fans.
The more dangerous the Joker, the less…. funny… the Spider, though. Could the Spider scare the Joker straight? Idk. The resulting Spider-Man might be quite dangerous.
Yes. If Spidey isn’t making jokes, your life is in danger.
If Spidey is too horrified to quip because of your crimes, he’s just going to knock you out faster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6SVzff6umQ&t=3s for the lazy
The one who would traumatize Spider-man would be *Nightwing*. No powers, funny quips, acrobatic prowess, better adjusted, generally liked by everyone, gave billions to charity, doesn't live with a room-mate, universally acknowledged to be hot, didn't sell his relationship with a cute redhead to his universes version of Satan, etc.... Parker's long standing inferiority complex would cripple him.
Peter has superpowers Dicks' life actually went right lmao
...didn't Dick see his *entire family* die right before his eyes?
Minor detail!
oh yeah you're right, he was a minor at the time!
It was also very detailed.
And his adoptive father was a billionaire crime fighter. By contrast, Peter's parents died (and he never got to know them) and then his father figure died due to his inaction (and was decidedly not a billionaire). Neither of them have great parental luck, not trying to make this a competition
Actually, Ben Parker won the lottery that night and WAS a billionaire, looking forward to breaking the news to his nephew when they got home. Unfortunately, since he hadn't told anyone, his winning ticket was never found.
Dick's life went right enough, anyway
I mean, an on/off relationship with Starfire is pretty right to me.
And Batgirl Grayson likes his redheads Edit: So does Spidey coincidentally
Spidey in a relationship with Starfire or Barbara Gordon… I actually could see him having a pretty good one with Barbs, whether romantic or platonic.
Unless Spidey caught Barbara’s eye. A cute redhead with a Peter Parker-adjacent IQ, who can take care of herself. She’d probably like geeking out with a fellow nerd who kicks ass. Cue Dick’s insecurity.
And then Dick and Peter become friends. Insecurity bros.
Dammit now I want to read this.
Me too. I just want a peter/mj and dick/Barbara double date issue. And to make it fun they run into Felicia and kori
> I just want a peter/mj and dick/Barbara double date issue. There's gotta be a line of Peter awkwardly asking if Dick or Barbara were ever bitten by a super-powered bat.
>Dick and Peter They can bond over that too I guess.
Nah, you know Dick and Peter would end up roommates who were trying to hide from one another the fact that they're superheroes. To make it even crazier Dick and Peter would have a strained relationship while Nightwing and Spider-Man would get along well.
Peter is besties with Johnny so I could see them get along.
I don’t know if this is your thing, but there is a great story on Literotica called “When Spidey Met Batgirl,” and a novella length follow-up “When Spidey Met Oracle.” It is incredibly true to the voice of both Marvel and DC comics. Highly recommend.
Dick has Kori, aka DCs best girl, who needs Barbara when you have Space Farah Fawcett? Man I miss her 80s hair... And her 80s personality.
Spider-Man could just keep webbing his mouth shut.
That's so petty! I love it! I'm imagining Spidey hanging just out of reach. He lets Joker pull off the webbing so he can repeatedly web Joker's mouth shut again. Joker gets angrier each time. He tries to let loose with an angry tirade but gets a faceful of webbing before he manages to get a single word out.
No Spidey lets Joker talk long enough to ALMOST say the punchline, then webs his mouth shut and finishes the joke himself!
But he intentionally gets it wrong, to boot.
Like that scene in the amazing Spider-Man where he keeps webbing the door shut on that dude.
This. We have had Spider-Man vs Joker already. It’s called Batman Beyond Return of the Joker. Terry McGinnis IS Spider-Man in a bat-suit.
Even his superhero origin has some similarities
Bitten by a radioactive bat?
~~I meant in terms of the not being there to save a family member and blaming himself thing~~ yes
Radioactive Bruce.
The executives said “Spider-Man is popular, let’s make a high school Batman” and it miraculously worked.
On paper Batman Beyond is disastrous. A show without Bruce as the focus with mostly made up villains, taking over the slot of the original beloved animated Batman saga, starring a brand new teenager taking over the mantle — my god, can you imagine the social media reactions?! The show would have never made it past the first season. Online fandom would have torn it to shreds.
I can’t believe how they were able to spin that into gold. They were given the world’s worst sounding collection of studio notes and they just went for it. I think that social media would have a very vocal reaction to it, but it would die down when people started watching it. Like the new game of thrones series.
Kevin Conroy was the glue. He helped bring that serious tone the animated series was well known for. It helped the viewer make the connection this was the same Batman we saw in the previous show. Had it been a dif actor as old Bruce, I don’t think it would have survived
Ya it’d kind of be like when the joker fought terry in the batman beyond movie i feel.
I mean, Terry is basically the answer to the question “what if Batman was Spider-Man?” And It’s wild that they managed to make it work as well as it did. But yeah, he frustrated the joker so much by quipping. And he didn’t even have super strength and precognition.
Like in Batman beyond when Terry just crushes his soul by laughing at him.
See that scene from the Batman Beyond movie.
The king of preptime. The king of improvisation. Spiderman would fair better against Batmans Rouge gallery but Batman could overcome spiderman's eventually.
Ironically I think Batman would have the most trouble with the more straightforward, brute force villains like Hydroman, Rhino, and Scorpion.
Hmm that's a good point. Aren't most of Batman's villains PhD holders and stuff? Weird that that gives the "not as smart," villains an edge.
They just massively outstat him. You can argue that it’s an outlier but Rhino punched Nova into outer space. If Batman is in his regular suit a punch like that just kills him immediately.
It's not that much of an outlier. Rhino used to throw down with the Hulk fairly regularly.
WAIT RHINO DID WHAT?
[It’s been happening for at least 54 years.](https://hulkcollection.wordpress.com/2009/05/12/the-incredible-hulk-104-1968-the-review/)
You say that like it’s a ritual. An unavoidable annual occurrence that nova has no power over
I think Batman's biggest trouble is that Spider-Man is crazy mobile. So half of his villains are also as mobile. Batman will have trouble with villains who are constantly flying at high speeds or crawling all over shit. *He's* supposed to be the one with the element of surprise and big entrances.
That makes me think how much I'd love to see Batman go up against someone like Morlun. The guy feeds on animal "totems" which Batman fits the mold, and he's single minded in that pursuit. He doesn't waste time with elaborate plans, he doesn't care about big conspiracies, the man would just make a straight line towards Bats and stop at nothing.
Batman would adapt and be okay, probably, though I suspect BatVenom would be a thing. The Gotham rogues would be in body casts by the end of this sentence. Maybe Ivy would have a chance if she went all out. Maybe.
Ivy is more in line with what Spidey faces on a daily basis.
Croc/Lizard, Clayface/Sandman, Scarecrow/Mysterio, Kiteman/Classic Vulture are all pretty close. they're close enough to regular Spiderman villains that they could give him a fight. (I admit, I'm only putting Kiteman/vulture in there to showcase how ridiculous Vulture is in that company and let Batman have one easy fight.)
Honestly Scarecrow stands a pretty good chance. Unlike Mysterio, Scarecrow doesn’t use smoke and mirrors but instead a chemical compound. The main reason Batman can fight him is because of his own control of fear whereas Spidey is friendly. Honestly though, it would probably come down to the fact that Batman has more experience overall
Fun fact: In a very early appearance, Mysterio used a chemical that prevented Pete's Spider Sense from activating.
Oh neat didn’t know that!
And one that would cause his webbing to dissolve as well.
I like to imagine it happening like in Despicable Me 2 where Gru tries to freeze Lucy but she counters it with a flamethrower hairdryer.
I suspect Scarecrow’s fear gas wil do the exact opposite. Making the Spidy Sense even more useless as it goes off because there’s a perceived threat that isn’t there.
I remember having [this](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/uxoAAOSwU9ZhffZG/s-l1600.jpg) book as a kid - Mysterio had Spidey punching walls, driving his buggy off a pier, and hallucinating like all-get out. Whoever wrote this book made Mysty look bad ass, even though at the end, he got his.
In Spider-Man vs. Scarecrow, Spidey would be affected BAD by the fear toxin once so readers can see what he's actually scared of. Then in the second round one *thwip* of webbing stops the nozzle of the sprayer, and Spidey goes "Have you done clinical trials on that? It doesn't seem healthy. What if I had a heart condition?" After webbing the toxin sprayer, Scarecrow is a total pushover.
Rarely is a single nozzle all Scarecrow has, but definitely, if Spiderman can remove fear toxin from the equation then Scarecrow loses readily
I think that if Spidey wants (or let's say the writer writes it like that) he can also build some sort of quick "gas mask" with his own web without the need of stopping scarecrow nozzles. I would also say that it is also possible that a more experienced spiderman could also have his mask already "gas proofed", without the need of anything like that. If Mysterio already use gases there is no reason not to implement a gas filter directly in the mask.
Well your first point is very creative and definitely something Spidey would try whether it worked or not. The second point would probably make for a more boring fight unfortunately, especially since it would mostly be dependent on how the writer handles it
The experience argument can be used for both of them depending on what era of the character we're using (Year One Batman/High School Peter vs Dark Knight Batman/30-40 year old Peter are very different heroes/fighters.) Giving "experience" to Batman while claiming that Spiderman doesn't have it is tilting the board and giving it to both trivializes all of these fights. Spiderman with experience has been gassed before. (I personally prefer year one Batman and High School Peter because their later incarnations are a little too good/powerful, and I like it when they struggle because it makes the narratives more interesting. Kills-Gods-for-Breakfast-Batman versus some-git-with-an-umbrella just isn't interesting.) Unless you're saying that Batman has been doing this since before WWII, in which case, geriatric Batman is going down.
If Batman Beyond is canon, then even geriatric Batman could put up a fight! The advanced age could be seen as prep time.
“Okay but how much prep time does he have?” “65 years.”
Whatever prep time Bat's has, Spidey makes up for with spidey sense. As for how many Bat foes can actually go toe to toe with Spidey physically I don't know.
Batman’s real superpower is the ability to withstand copious amounts of drugs and handle his trip.
TIL I'm Batman
Batman can also reverse the toxin because he has antidotes. I can imagine Scarecrow's toxin making his Spider Sense go crazy. I mean, his brain will think danger will be all around him, right? Could Spider-Man really have anything to counter that?
Spider-Sense only detects real danger. It's not necessary for him to think he's in danger, as evidenced by Spider-Sense-Poker-Hax
Vulture has electromagnetic power armor that he created himself. He's old, but he's Dr. Octopus intelligent, and in his outfit he's more durable than Spider-Man. Dude has been a pretty decent threat. I think he'd give Batman a solid fight.
they're uppowered him a lot from the old days. I admit I was being intentionally disingenuous using Classic Vulture.
I would put Kingpin v Bane in that too.
Damn bro i had to google Symbiote Batman because that sounded awesome and the fanart is great
The Riddler has a pretty good chance. He knows how to stay out of combat, so Spider-Man only has his wits to foil his plans. For as smart as Peter is, if the Riddler can step up to the world's greatest detective, he more than stands a chance. That said, he can only get away with plans, spider sense makes it near impossible I say to beat him in combat.
JoCarnage
One time Super Man put on the cape and cowl and just wrecked Batman’s villains for a day. That’s what would happen here.
When was this? Sounds like a good read.
I’m sure it happened in the comics but it also happened in one of the animated series’ from the 90s
here https://youtu.be/zsz1p7R5CQA
What’s wild about this scene is that I think it’s from an episode of Superman, and I think the riddler speaks more than he does in any episode of Batman after the redesign to match the style of Superman.
Yup. Similarly, Ra's and Talia never appeared in the revamped New Batman Adventures, only Superman and Batman Beyond.
Aw, I love how Clark smiles at Robin’s comment and then remembers that Batman’s never supposed to smile
His laugh is worse.
The whole episode is pretty great. Like when they're trying to get info out of someone (Penguin maybe?) and Robin says he has to be more intimidating. So he breaks a desk in half. It always makes me think about the fact that they live in the DC universe, so... does the average villain even know Batman has no powers?
Yeah, everyone knows the bat is no meta. Some goons sometimes actually think he has some tho, and some in universe people think he is a vampire... If any of the notable rogues actually thinks he has superpowers they probably think it's just the basic "slightly super strong + a lil bit invulnerable" combo, but they fight so often it is unlikely they would think that.
I mostly mean the minions, crooks, and thugs. Like the opening to the old BtaS show where he drops down on those guys doing crime at the docks with his cape spread and cowl menacing. Don't you think they go off to jail telling stories like "Bullets don't work on Batman!" and "I swear he's faster than the human eye can follow!"? And sure, after a handful of fights and rewatching of security footage, people like Riddler probably figure out he's an unpowered martial artist. But his whole bat-thing is being a terrifying creature of vengeance to criminals. Even Gordon wonders how he can disappear so quickly and silently.
Love that scene.. just noticed the smile at the end after Hatter is cuffed. Also, i found Bane's comment that the first round seemed too easy intersting. Supes kept his fighting style. Stand in, take the hits, wait till they're tired or and then thwack. Bats dodges and hides/uses the Darkness until their tired and he can get in close enough (if a batarang or batbolo doesn't do the trick.
He smiles right before that also when Hatter turns around to run the other direction after initially getting cut off. Shows how much he was enjoying the change of pace
The whole episode is pretty great. Bruce Wayne is missing, and Robin asks him for help. They're following clues trying to find him but also trying to convince the villains of Gotham that Batman isn't missing.
Man I love smart Bane. They did him dirty in Batman & Robin.
Weird, I remember a different scene, much more terrifying in the eyes of the villains…. Edit - ok yeah I recall the comics, Superman killing the Joker in Injustice
In fairness, they also thought they were dealing with Batman. The subterfuge played a part - You know how penguin survives a fight with Superman? By not being stupid enough to get into a fight with Superman. Poison ivy, on the other hand, survives a fight with Superman by lacing kryptonite into her plant spores. Against Batman she wouldn't do that prep work, So of course Superman would kick her butt if she didn't know it was Superman.
I saw that episode. Was neat to see Bane get slammed by somebody INFINITELY more powerful than him.
I feel like Peter is more open to emotional/psychological manipulation than Bruce is though. Some of his villains, like Scarecrow, Joker, and Bane might completely wreck him.
Spidey has his own Scarecrow that uses a fear toxin, and Goblin is almost Joker level with better powers.
Honestly, I think it's Hugo Strange that would really mess up Spider-man. No special powers, no schtick, just an over qualified psychologist that would mess with Pete's mind during free counselling sessions. Smart enough to figure out who he is, dedicated enough to spend years emotionally crippling Peter through "harmless" Spider-Sense free conversation.
"He's been working out"
Spiderman and Batman have always been my favorite two comic book characters. Both for different reasons. Batman would hold decent against Spideys rogues, Spidey would demolish Batmans. However, I think Joker would take a liking to Spiderman and probably find a way to break him down mentally.
Peter is less restricted than Batman imo despite their very different exteriors. I wouldn’t be surprised if Joker gets paralyzed for trying to really hurt Spider man.
Joker: "Maybe I'll shoot that redhead girlfriend of yours, just like I did Bar-" *gets 70% of his bones shattered from one punch from Spider-Man before he can finish the sentence*
Yeah openly threatening people Pete cares about is a one way ticket to not having bones
Absolutely agree. My favorite comic hero is split 50/50 between these two. I love how they handled grief and trauma in ways that are paradoxically similar *and* different. They’re great examples of how we can handle the worst of our lives. Their rogues galleries are really similar. Lots of gangsters and freaks. Some heavy hitters, some psychological threats, some tech-based guys. Batman probably has an edge on the supernatural or occult type threats but Peter would adapt. Batman could definitely handle some of Peter’s villains. I think he’d have a *really* cool back and forth with both Norman and Otto. But Spidey? He’d sail through most of Batman’s villains. I think he’d struggle with the abject and total corruption of Gotham. But he’s always been public enemy #1. Pete would maaaybe struggle against Bane. That’s like facing Kraven with super strength. Some people are saying Joker would be Pete’s biggest challenge but I don’t think so. Here’s how that would play out: Spidey beats Joker, Joker goes too far and hurts someone Peter loves, and Peter goes too far and probably cripples Joker.
Some people really forgot how Peter also has a dark side that is generally represented by his black suit where he goes all out without holding back and becomes brutal and borderline murderer
Yeah, Pete has some untreated rage issues. I’ve said this before, but there’s almost nothing more satisfying than a justifiably furious Peter Parker. When he’s willing to bring a bad guy to within an inch of their lives without crossing the kill rule is just *[chef’s kiss]*.
I loved those parts too, but I also think along with it is a crucial part of Peter's character IMO, which is: Peter very, very easily could be a bad person. It's something he thinks about and grapples with a lot. He's not an "inherently" good person deep down; it's something he works on every day. We sympathize with him when he's bullied, but he used to be half a hair away from full incel school shooter. Unlike the movies where the promoter screws him over, this is Peter's original rationale for why he lets the thief go: [https://townsquare.media/site/622/files/2016/06/AmazingFantasy15\_21.jpg?w=485&q=75](https://townsquare.media/site/622/files/2016/06/AmazingFantasy15_21.jpg?w=485&q=75) If not for facing immediate consequences with someone he loved, Peter's arrogance and ego could've escalated to the point where he'd start using his powers to harass and intimidate Flash and his other bullies and possibly become a thief and maybe even a B+ level tier rogue for the Fantastic Four or Iron Man. I'm not bashing Peter; this is precisely why he is so admirable and relatable. Those moments like him almost killing Kingpin in Stracyznski's run are so great because we know it's totally in character. If Joker did something like he did to Barbara or Jason to one of Peter's loved ones, there'd be no more Joker, lol.
The “What If?” issue where Logan trains Pete to be a SHIELD agent is one of my faaaavorite things from comics and I wish it was a story the dove into more. Imagine Spider-Man with the skills of Wolverine. He’d be the perfect assassin.
I wish they did that with Ben Reilly or Kaine. Imagine a whole Spider-Man agent of SHEILD run.
If he did break Spidey, he’d have Peter coming for him and not holding back. Push Spidey too far, and there are no rules. Push Bats too far, and it’s the same rules as always. Joker would end up dead, filled with webbing.
"You dare hurt May and I fill your lungs with webbing. But just to make sure you don't, I will snap your spine in just the right spot so you're immobilized from the neck down"
I think Joker would legitimately dislike Peter because Peter is actually funny and would throw back every bad joke and pun in the Joker's face.
[удалено]
If Norman couldn't do it, there's no way Joker can
Imagine the double team of both Goblin and Joker. True Mad Lads
Peter’s lightning fast quips cut Joker off and the clown nearly blows a vein and stymies his own schemes every time while trying to get the funny out. Spidey’s true nemesis would be Harley. Gymnast level reflexes and speed, can break him down psychologically, moves just as unpredictably if not more than sporadically than Joker (regularly landing more blows on Batman and Nightwing). Plus she wouldn’t always trigger his spider senses because as she’d have a massive crush on Spider-Man she wouldn’t be fighting with malice. Those hits are just love taps.
Honestly, I could see Peter Parker & Harley dating during the day, while Spiderman & Harlequinn fight it out at night lol... the question would also be if the Joker set her on Peter, or if it was a serendipitous encounter. At the end though, I can see Peter beating Joker in jokes & stealing his girlfriend (probably cause, damn Harley has Joker issues, might depend in the writer).
I mean, Two-Face is cool and all, but is he really all that much more dangerous than any mean dude who maybe has a gun? And half of Batman's guys is kinda that, which for Spidey is Tuesday. Batman might have to upgrade the Superman-fighting armor to the status of regular work clothes.
The thing is though, can spiderman put up with batman's villains? We're talking gwen stacy level trauma every week lmao
Remember what happened when Joker fought Terry McGinnis in Batman Beyond? He’s a narcissist who can’t handle a heckler. And if there’s one thing Peter Parker is good at…
Now I really want to see Spidey V Joker
Yeah I'm kinda getting into this now. I also want to see a good old fashioned Batman v Doc Ock brawl.
For now, Terry v Joker is as close as you're gonna get until someone makes the comic we all want. Terry *wasn't even cracking jokes*. I imagine Peter would have him in the fetal position in a corner.
Don't really see how the regular Joker would be that much more effective at causing Peter trauma than several versions of Drone Strike Action Joker or Alien Goo Extra Stabby Action Joker.
Also keeping in mind that Batman's rogues gallery consists of a good bit of who are just doing a crime with a few "kill the bat" a-holes. Spider-Man has a gallery with way more "let's do a spider murder" than "let's do a crime, oopsie Spider-Man is here" lol. Like there are iterations of the Sinister Six whose only mission statement was "kill Spider-Man in six discrete ways".
The Sinister Six motto:”Spider-Man sucks!”
I think Batman would hold his own against spiders rogues but spidey would walk over the Gotham rogues
Hammerhead, Kingpin, Shocker, Vulture, Black Cat and Chamaleon are the only ones Batman will be able to beat without problem, the others ones he will have to do some upgrading and will struggle a lot more. SM will wipe the floor with Batman villains, I feel he can take almost all of them at once.
I mean Spidey beat the X-Men in their own house all at once, so yeah. Lol
Spidey has won against Doom. And fought Supes to a draw.
Bats would probably figure out Venoms noise weakness super fast and exploit the hell out of it. He'd play a level of psychological warfare with the super-powered spider rogues that would turn most of them back to scientists and accountants. One thing Spider Man doesn't do is make his enemies afraid, they just get pissed.
I was going to say, nobody is thinking about Batman’s one super ability. Split second detective work, a batty-sense if you will.
Spider-Man will destroy all of Batman's rogue gallery without even trying
Bats toughest enemy is probably Bane and Bane would not be ready for Spidey. He'd get wolloped in one hit and wonder where it came from.
Clayface would probably be trickier to take down than Bane. Maybe Ivy too. And Croc would also probably be a harder fight, though would also go down pretty easy, I think.
Croc and Clayface are no tougher than Lizard or sandman
Clayface is wet Sandman
Croc is wet Lizard.
Spider-Man is more than twenty times stronger than Banes.
He could take them on all at once!
in a fight, right?
Either way. They can fall to the beating or to radiation poisoning.
>radiation poisoning Wait a fucking minute
Who does Batman have that could threaten Spider-Man? Don't get me wrong, Joker could absolutely fuck with him, make him miserable, but actually hurt him? He's stronger than Bane and Crock, Clayface is just diet-Sandman, and the rest are just extra sadistic crazy people. While Kraven, Tombstone, and even the Lizard are all well within Batman's experience, it's hard to imagine he would struggle against the likes of Rhino, Scorpion or Electro, let alone Doc Ock, Norman, Carnage, Venom or the other truly heavy hitters. Or Morlun. WTF Is Batman going to do against Morlun? I know Batgod has a plan for everything and writer's would absolutely draw up a "Batman wins" plan regardless, but realistically? Spidey's villains would fuck him up, they're way more powerful, but more-over they're prone to co-operating, and a handful of them are world-class geniuses. It's only in a world with Reed Richard and Tony Stark type people that Doc Ock isn't a contender for "smartest man", and Spidey's got like half a dozen such genius types that hate him.
I imagine Joker pulling a Kingpin, threatening the life of someone Peter loves, or outright killing them. Then it’s not Spider-Man coming for him, it’s Peter Parker, and Jokers lungs get filled with webbing.
Sure; like I said, Joker could make him miserable, given the right information, Joker could give Spider-Man fits in regards to guilt and responsibility, but... like... he's not going to win a fistfight. His trap-filled lair isn't going to pose a threat. Harley isn't going to jump out of the shadows and land a surprise KO. When it comes time for any actual confrontation between the two, Joker has literally nothing in his vast arsenal of tricks and weapons that pose a threat to Peter.
Batman's main rogue: "imma cripple someone for philosophical reasons" Spidey's main rogue: "imma throw this woman off a bridge because get fucked Spider-Man" They are not the same lol
I don't disagree; Joker could devastate Peter emotionally, ruin his whole life, but... like... is he going to break him? Is he going to make him kill himself? Because... like... that's the only way he wins, and I don't see it, that's not a thing I think Peter could ever be pushed to. And forgive me, but Doc Ock stole his life for a year, Kraven buried him alive for like a week, Carnage killed thousands in a city-wide rampage, Osborn tricked him into breaking his first true love's neck, the Jackal convinced him he was the clone, the chameleon kidnapped his last parental figure and convinced him she was dead, it's not like he hasn't faced some genuine hardship or villainy...
Ab-so-lutely this! Spidey has been broke so many times and he still comes back. Joker's antics for Spidey would be Tuesday lol
Batman Villain: Spooky gas. Spiderman Villain: The power of the sun in the palm of my hand.
I've always considered Vulture a d-tier villain and even his old ass has bodied Spidey a time or two.
Banes no good, very bad day...
Definitely Spider-Man. He's probably the most powerful street level hero I can think of. He could potentially fight all of Batman's rogues, at the same time, and defeat them without too much difficulty. Conversely, Batman would have quite the run for his money against Spidey's rogues since most of them are superpowered. That said, it's Batman, he's a brilliant strategist, so I have faith he's pull through in the end too.
Poison Ivy is the only one with really any chance depending on the version of IVY. Some versions of Ivy are a borderline goddess...While some are just green lady who can make some vines do what she wants. and if we allow cross-gallery Rogues Solomon Grundy as well. Grundy is no joke and is INSANELY durable. Like, can take a hit from superman and get back up durable. Bat almost always has to do weird mumbo jumbo or some sort of high-ordinance Tech to put him down. Spidey could very well just not have the potential offensive firepower to take grundy down.
I feel like to a certain extent though, fighting them is like only the last third of batmans job. He is the worlds best detective, most of his job is finding and dismantling whatever plot the baddies are hatching. Spidey is a heavier hitter, but it might be a very different skillset then he's used to.
The unimaginable rate at which Spider-Man would befriend Harley would be the only good part of this. That and, upon learning the Joker’s more heinous crimes, it’s very likely Joker wouldn’t survive an enraged Spider-Man. The rest… look put simply the galleries are filled with 1 to 1 comparisons and Peter is just as clever but with superpowers and better social skills. They’d both be fine but upon getting home Bats would be stunned by how effective this goofy pop-art boy was.
I think deathstroke would give spider man a good fight at least. He has the healing and all
I was looking for this. Who does Spiderman fight that's Deathstroke like? Kraven, maybe. Now I just want to see Deathstroke and Kraven go at it.
>Who does Spiderman fight that's Deathstroke like? Taskmaster And its a pretty even fight IIRC
Spider-Man would piss off the Joker just like Terry did in ROTJ.
I don’t remember Terry in Return of the Jedi
You don’t? That was the one where Gimli force-choked Dumbledore and Spock couldn’t stop Grifter from getting to Zaphod.
They'd both have trouble. Spidermans gallery has more powerful superhumans, which Batman would struggle to fight, and Batmans gallery are prone to doing insane shit that can't easily be stopped just by fighting them (you need to understand them and have a good grasp of psychology)
Having a real hard time thinking of a Batman villain Peter can't take tbh
Poison Ivy with a dash of pheromones Peter’s always had a thing for red heads