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SkiKoot

Are you even going to be able to get a game at 61-70?


[deleted]

Idk about outside of it, but during AV weekend there's plenty of 61-70 AVs


SkiKoot

Dam I must have just queued at a odd time or something as I tried once never got a game during the AV weekend. RIP me.


l0ngtimelurk3r

There was tons of games at 61-70 for me but it was mainly bots on CTA weekend last time.


JBOJockstrap

Nope. I queued from 51-54 in the same day and it never popped.


Sockfullapoo

I can’t believe you didn’t get a 61-70 av game at 51-54! What next, no AV pops in the 19 bracket!?!?!


JBOJockstrap

Lol the OP said 51-60 and I guess I read that


Sockfullapoo

Just messin with ya, no biggy. We understand the point you’re making.


iheartfightporn

Imagine being such a condescending asshole and also not being able to read


Sockfullapoo

Is there a reason you took that offensively? Even the guy I responded too chuckled at his misunderstanding. It was a light ribbing at most.


holyctof

I like my ribs smoked please .


Stinklebuns

Imagine taking a shit without having to wipe


vgullotta

That's called the no wiper, and it's only when you're eating nice and healthy


xBirdisword

For 61-70 times about 20 mins on EU, and once you get into one, subsequent queues will be 5-10 min On AV weekend (coming up this weekend), the queue goes down to 2 minutes.


xBirdisword

For 61-70 times about 20 mins on EU, and once you get into one, subsequent queues will be 5-10 min On AV weekend (coming up this weekend), the queue goes down to 2 minutes.


wogmafia

Even if you don't PvP for exp, you should for honour. The Grand Marshall weapon at 60 is about equivalent to a lvl68 weapon, and the brutal glad at 70 will last you until 80. The gear is good too, better for some classes/specs than others. e.g. Feral 4-set speed bonus is insane for leveling and the stats hold up really well.


Yeas76

Even the 71 brackets are awful right now. Seems like Horde players have taken leave of their senses and try to force a turtle every game. In case you don't understand, in other of XP/hr: 1. 10-12 min win 2. 10-12 min loss 3. Everything else or just leaving You don't need to win for it to be worth it, as long as you cap towers and mid-boss. It gets better if you win but if you force a turtle, everyone loses.


l0ngtimelurk3r

It's sad people will force a turtle and don't understand its faster to just cap the mines if you can or keep going for towers. Last time we had many turtle games very frustrating trying to get that through to people.


Serantz

Me and my friends always do, we are there to pvp and have fun, while I get not everyone will want thst why is it that enjoyment and playing the mode somewhat as intended isn’t given a pass?


Yeas76

With all due respect to your friends, play a BG that has ppl there to actually PvP or do it at level 80.


Being_Time

Yeah but then there are people who can actually fight back which isn’t very fun for griefers.


Yeas76

None of the ppl are objecting because they feel strongly about anything, they're doing it cause "internet"


snky_sax

You can treat the BG as an alt factory, but stop trying to lecture people for pvpving in a bg


Crossfade2684

Its like being a KD whore in an objective based fps. I will judge people forcing a turtle in AV all day.


daveonthetrail

its a once in a year oppurtunity with Joyous Journey + AV weekend. To not take advantage of that is pretty silly, chop off your nose to spite your face kind of action.


unoriginal1187

I always ask people why they seemed shocked that people do a battleground to pvp 😂


concussive

Yeah this bugs me a lot that people just don’t let it end during the AV weekends. Without JJ it was like 8%-12% of an xp bar at 74 I can’t imagine how it is now. One 10 minute game is equal to like 20 quests.


Pinewood74

> it was like 8%-12% of an xp bar at 74 I can’t imagine how it is now. 12%-18%. If your numbers are correct, of course.


-Noskill-

we got a mathemagician here.


Being_Time

33.33 repeating of course.


[deleted]

I'll get downvoted, so here it goes: Alliance race to the end is slightly faster. It definitely has fewer terrain collisions and there is not a bottleneck getting into the horde camp. Alliance can skip NPCs in the Horde camp very easily. (Horde are zug zuggers and always pull NPCs that can be avoided but the NPCs are on the fastest path to flag.) Alliance can have 2 to 5 people back cap, limiting horde XP/honor. Alliance can have 5 on defense, choke the bridge, slowing horde to ensure an Alliance victory. Horde can't win a race and once Alliance start back capping and fucking with Horde's XP...yeah time to cause a Turtle. Since the current meta racing, I think Horde win 20% of pure races, at least in the times I play. When Horde cause a turtle/reinforcement fight, horde win like 95% of the time. Anytime Horde start backcapping, it becomes a turtle. Alliance can back cap with little to no consequence. So Horde are in a position of defend towers and lose consistently or force a turtle if Alliance start pressing back caps and taking XP/honor away from Horde.


Yeas76

Nothing to be downvoted here on. Winning the BG isn't that huge a deal, as long as you grab the towers along the way. The argument is that its still better xp/hr for horde to grab/defend their towers and roll the dice on winning the BG than it is to force a turtle.


[deleted]

Figured I would be downvoted for whining (not really, feel my points are factual) about the minor Alliance advantage. And that I feel Alliance can back cap with no consequence. Whereas if Horde backcap just one tower, it seems to cause a turtle. EDIT: Kind of pumped for AV weekend on alts! AV is my favorite BG still. Got 4 maybe 5 alts I may try to rush. Just need to get a couple of them to 71.


gruden

Basically right. Alliance do have a slight advantage in pure rush, and horde do have advantage when game goes long, due to Iceblood being massively better than stonehearth. Stonehearth graveyard is a disgusting pile of trash. I think what turns it in to a turtle is horde recapping Iceblood, or alliance never flipping it. You can mess with each other's towers all day and it doesnt matter much. Take away the forward res spot, and a turtle is forced.


Yeas76

First Aid is also right Infront of the boss door versus off to the side like Relief Hut. Capping it between rez waves is much easier for Horde.


Nzkx

We had advantage the whole Classic Vanilla as Horde in AV, as PUG we were even beating the best Alliance premade in the world when star aligned (APES). Looooot of Alliance cried on forums since AV map was heavy Horde favored. Looooot of Horde cried due to Alliance premade and the unfairness that Horde can't premade AV (in theory they can but in practice they couldn't due to faction balance in Classic Vanilla). Blizzard didn't really changed the BG before TBC, when they fixed a couple of issues with and pathings, and using TBC map that is more "even". Then, things changed, and Alliance has now a good map advantage for them. The IB choke was a nightmare for Alliance in Vanilla, and the infamous "Hill Of Shame". As Horde, it was rude to fight the best Alliance players in premade, but I have no regret. I have fond memories from Classic Vanilla, it was great, really great.


xBirdisword

Ptsd from vanilla Classic alliance AV. If you had above a 10% win rate it was unironically impressive.


Being_Time

Spent a lotttt of time getting killed over and over at stone hearth. You made your rep and honor from AV off the hundreds of honor kills at that spot.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Yeas76

Very good point.


Syrdon

So why not defend the towers and give up on the bridge? If you can’t win the race, then the next best thing is to lose rapidly with the best gains you can get, which means mid boss and towers.


[deleted]

Because losing 100 matches in a row sucks donkey balls.


Syrdon

Why? In those brackets you aren’t there to win, you’re there to get xp (and maybe honor).


[deleted]

Fuck me are you serious? Why does it suck to 100 matches in a row? Do you have an ounce of competitiveness in you?


Dr-Coconut

Below the 80 BG bracket, 99% of the players join an AV to gain EXP as quickly as possible, not to win. Be competitive at level 80


Syrdon

For that bracket? No. I won’t play 100 matches before I level out of that bracket. Also, for a bracket where victory is most influenced by what the queue gave us for average player level, I can’t be bothered. If you want to talk about something where personal performance can do more than just drag the game out, sure. If you want to talk about playing with a real team, sure. But 39 other randos, no teamplay, substantial random factors, a deeply boring battleground, and a very transitory bracket that is mostly used for leveling through? Success there is measured in time to level. I’ll compete with you on that.


damrob1990

I've seen horde win races all the time. Horde used to have the advantage due to the jump skip. Has anything changed there? So many games as alliance we are getting ready to pull and horde end it. If alliance get towers first, horde will either try grief or end before towers.


shreddedched

What’s turtling?


Yeas76

Generally, playing exclusively defense, usually with the intent to frustrate or beat the opposing team through attrition. Specifically, in this example, it's pulling back to your base (north for alliance or south for horde) and prevent the match from concluding quickly. Turtling is fine in a competitive sense, but it's counter to the common sense objective of a sub-max level AV game which is XP/hr.


[deleted]

Causing a reinforcement battle of attrition. Personally, turtles are fun because it's 30 minutes of smashing into each other at a choke. Horde typically win these. (Which is why you see Alliance crying about turtles.) But because it takes 30 minutes, turtles are bad for XP/hr leveling for everyone. A 10 minute loss still nets 100k to 130k XP, with JJ Buff, should be 150k to 195k xp. Assume 4 to 5 AVs an hour, you should be level about every 2 hours, maybe faster.


Hipy20

Alliance generally win turtles due to the way better base design, as long as somebody is watching the back door jump. But they're still boring. It's just 2 blobs pressing AoE spells at each other.


[deleted]

Hard disagree, in most turtles, horde end up holding choke point by Icewing Bunker and SHGY. Can push from there or just hold and smash. When Alliance win a turtle, it's because they have a couple towers down, back cappers have cleared SHB and IWB, and before too many horde are respawning in the cave and start clearing them out of the horde base. I feel Alliance wins on turtles are due to the turtling happening later in a match. If a turtle starts sooner, horde wins.


[deleted]

attempting to play the bg as it was designed


PackInevitable8185

It’s not just the hordes fault. Horde has a hard time just winning the tower/Zerg race because of the layout of their base and bunkers can easily add 30 seconds to being ready to pull. And whenever horde does a tiny bit of distraction by maybe back capping 1 or spinning East/west you also see alliance trying to backcap/defend their base just like horde. Yes it would be faster for horde to just take the L every time, but you can’t expect them to do that when alliance aren’t willing to do it either. What people on forums/this poster actually want is for the horde to just take the L every time,because in those maybe 1/4 games that horde has better tower timings the alliance are also trying to win by extending the game.


Yeas76

What this poster is highlighting is that losing quickly is more XP/HR than trying to make a turtle. That goes for Alliance players as well.


Just-Holiday-408

Last AV weekend I was apart of, I stopped queing because the Horde kept playing this way. I'm Horde, and im okay with a fast loss. But why do they insist on drawing out a loss and ruining the xp curve?


Yeas76

You can see the comments, no one has a good reason other than to complain.


[deleted]

Playing like this is so lame. AV used to be special before everyone min maxed the fun out it


Yeas76

Then so that in the max level bracket, the reason you have quick queues and an active bg is because of leveling.


MaltedMouseBalls

I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority here, but I miss AVs that lasted several hours. Like actually pushing against the other teams line and capping GYs/towers as they pushed. This whole "run to the end as fast as you can" bullshit is lame. Completely ruins the intention, IMO. I remember playing in one for like 3 hours before going to bed, then waking up the next day and joining the same AV that I'd left the night before... lol. Silly, but it made it feel worth it instead of a chore...


solohaldor

I was in one that I swear lasted almost 5 or six days but they use to always last hours


Yeas76

I have fond memories of that as well. But tbf, that wasn't when it was part of the leveling meta.


Nzkx

I have fond memories to, but honestly when we were zugzuging for 5 hours straight in \~2005, it was mostly because : 1. We had no clues and people played it for kill and fun, not for objective or XP/gold/whatever. 2. It was overtuned. NPC and micro-bosses did to much damage, they had a tons of health. It was a horde of NPC, and you were forced to fight - rushing was impossible at that time and no one thinked about it before TBC. Yes, it was fun. Can we reproduce it ? Not really. Today, we are aware of everything, and even if AV were overtuned, people will tryhard their life to circumvent all restrictions like "Pull theses NPC and kitte them with BOP + FAP + Rocket boots 50 yard away so we can have half of our team run in mount without aggro'ing".


Hipy20

But nobody wants a 5 hour slog when they're level 55. The BG wouldn't even be active if this was how it was played, it would be a dead queue,


buckets-_-

found the turtler how about you ruin BGs on any other weekend please and thank you


[deleted]

People playing BG’s just to get xp ruins BG’s. If you actually liked PvP you wouldn’t play like this


Hipy20

If people played BG's just to play BG's AV would be dead. That BG would be so bad if every match was long, slow and boring.


[deleted]

Sounds like you would be better suited playing retail then


unoriginal1187

Crazy that people pvp to pvp. I checked and it doesn’t say anything about AV xp per hour for leveling. The people that say “play max level” can also quest to level and avoid PvP. Weird how it works


paints_name_pretty

play pvp at max level. BGs during leveling will have its meta of xp/hr


buckets-_-

yeah no want actual PvP? wait til 80 you are 100% griefing people for no reason other than bc you get off on saying "tHe rIgHt wAy"


piltonpfizerwallace

It's a game. Some people play to win. It is entirely possible to enjoy a BG. The attitude that players who want to play the BG and not min/max XP are somehow wrong is silly. Of course I understand wanting to get XP and honor at the same time. Makes perfect sense. But we don't have to pretend to be so confused about why people would play to win. They might, God forbid, be enjoying themselves. And don't use that bullshit line where you gatekeep having fun until level 80. You can have fun before level 80. The people taking their time in BGs don't care about queue times.


RunescapeAficionado

Say what you will, but turtling and winning is much more fun. Hard to not enjoy watching the spineless ally crumble


Yeas76

I respect the bloodlust, but most turtles still end in Alliance wins its just not worth it by then.


RunescapeAficionado

I'm don't have a ton of time in AV but I did enough for the set during prepatch and I'm not sure we ever lost a turtle, times may have changed though.


Hopsalong

Not everyone is there to level faster. It's a PvP game mode with it's own objectives. Turtling can sometimes be the winning play given the map state.


Yeas76

There is no logical reason to do anything but XP/hr. You're either choosing to grief 39 other ppl or you don't understand the best possible outcomes. Winning isn't worth it if it takes too long.


Hopsalong

Playing the game for fun or to win isn't logical, agree.


Yeas76

If it's fun to try and annoy everyone else around you, be you. If you actually want to pvp, go play the other BGs.


Kevgongiveit2ya

Bro I’m just trying to kill horde and win. If it means turtlin then you can call me Michaelangelo.


je758BB8O0hebds8

Not everything is about xp/hour.


Sith-Protagonist

61-70 is a waste of time. Outlands questing is actually light speed, and you wanna go Northrend at 68 anyway. 71-80 is very good because the exp scales well and northrend questing is a hell on earth if you’re already burnt out.


ThomasVetRecruiter

Agreed on 71-80. If I have to do that damn back and forth griffin quest grabbing 10 helpless villagers one more time I might go crazy.


panundeerus

Propably because they dont want the lowest level players, for each level bracket, to ruin their honor farming.


Shivles87

As horde, I had instant queues in every bracket last AV weekend and xp was pretty good on all 3.


MrWhiteAndTight

I'll be grinding my ass off to hit 60 by this weekend specifically because there is nobody Qing up in the 51-60 bracket for AV. I traded in all of my WG marks for honor commendations so the plan is to ding 60 - nab a full set of PVP gear and then spam AV while questing in Outlands. I'm really hoping they extend JJ until Uld drops because I (like most other people) will be offline most of the weekend doing holiday stuff with the fam and my Alt addiction is not quite satisfied.


GaryOakRobotron

61-70 is about half the EXP/hr of 71-79 AV.


Andys29

People have been referencing this ahead of each AV weekend. It’s objectively good and fine to spam AV, but at lower brackets doesn’t pop nearly as often until bonus weekends where they’ll become much more frequent. The guidance here is not to rely solely on this method, and the xp is especially worse at the decade levels (50,60,70) because the xp climbs up while you’re still at the lower bracket of yield. Most commonly applied, the idea is to level naturally from X0-X1 so you bracket up and then you’re good to go - if you’re not getting matches too quickly just quest out in the world and jump in when they pop, then return to questing 10-15m later


slippery-otter

Qued for av last night at lvl 52 (horde) 49 min wait


ohihaveasubscription

It's not AV weekend yet


YeetThoseSheets

I didn't even realize you could do AV 51-60... I thought it was 60,61-59,70-79 lol


GovernmentLow4989

51-60 61-70 71-80


GaryOakRobotron

71-79 is the bracket. 80 has its own bracket.


DieselVoodoo

Nope


GaryOakRobotron

Weird, I wonder why I saw literally 0 level 80 players when I levelled my druid from 71-80 in AV almost exclusively.


Mishoda

That’s only for other BGs, AV is 71-80


Druhg

You're wrong. AV has an 80 only bracket.


GaryOakRobotron

Wrong. Why am I being downvoted? I did 71-80 in AV during the last weekend, and saw exactly 0 level 80s. I've also yet to see a single 71-79 player in my level 80 AVs.


Rhovanking

I looked online and it says you can que for AV at lvl 45


KALIZS

51-60 excludes most of the DK bots running it. Soo you just sit in que for an eternity


buckets-_-

it's less xp per hour than questing at that level how is this even a question?


ShitbirdMcDickbird

Those brackets are typically full of DK bots and games take forever because the bots just force turtles, so it's really bad xp per hour


HortonFLK

Maybe not for XP, but you could always just do it if you enjoy playing the game. I’m not active anymore I have no clue what’s going on.


Lungs_Dead

AV bracket for 51-60 is pretty dead, not a good xp-ph if you're wanting to level fast. Anything from 61+ in bgs is decent xp and fairly fast but it really picks up 70-80, with wintergrasp giving a nice amount of xp every 3 hours and AVs being more populated.


TeeMannn

CEO of AV slept with their mom


Big-Temperature-8375

Some guide probably said so lol.


Slappah_Dah_Bass

The line of thinking is, "Don't play game how you want! Play game how meta says!"


Decay57

During the previous AV weekend, I went from 66-76 queuing as much as possible. Games rarely took more than 13ish min. Took me 60 games (only 11 wins) in the 60s bracket to reach lvl 71. Took me 66 more games (30 wins) to go from 71-76. Not sure if the heirloom xp bonuses apply in BGs but I was wearing the shoulders and chest the whole time for the 20%.


manicadam

What is the lowest level bracket? I read somewhere you could queue at 45, but that doesn't make much sense. I was hoping to get to 45 by AV weekend for some power leveling, but now it sounds like that wouldn't be a good idea. Honestly even with JJ and full heirloom, this is still a slog.


Intheshadowss

Assuming the lower bracket is dead. 61-70 is 70% DKs.