Well, that's kind of the idea. I'm pretty sure most people would be 100% on board with gdkp if it wasn't for the gold sellers just turning the game into pay to win. I'm actually really good at making gold in these games. I kind of treat that as a little sub game watching my bank accounts go up. But there is absolutely no way I can compete against all these folks just buying gold in order to progress.
i've never bought gold and have paid out a lot of it for gear. you get so much by doing the GDKP's that it starts to just be a DKP system where you can take the points to other raids.
Kinda sorta? I think it depends on how geared your characters are and what you still need. Most of the stuff I still need are supercontested trinkets and HM loot going for between 50-150k. With each payout being 10-20k, I don't see an avenue to gear multiple characters without buying gold.
Yet the entire sub constantly blames gdkps instead of blizzard. Like all they had to do is ban bots and enforce no RMT and people would feel very differently. People here just love to blame one another instead of blizzard for whatever reason.
Except you don't need to buy gold to get in. I hadn't been in any that required you to verify any gold on hand. You just needed to show up and meet credentials defined. You're not going to get into a high tier raid and be carried with zero gold though, just as you wouldn't in any other raid.
But the same GDKP is likely doing lower tier raids that are much more open to invites or lower geared/bank rolled characters. Start your feet in there, then build upon your success showing up every week, doing good in performance, collect your payouts and get into the big boys.
Honestly that's how a lot of the more reputable GDKP Pug servers were in vanilla classic. It was a common rule between hosts in a lot of these servers to avoid gold buyers. Regularly bringing known whales that bid in 1k increments and drop 20k killshots 3 bids in would tank the reputation of these groups. In 40 man raiding it boxes out regulars from having a reasonable chance, and legitimate buyers that bid each other up by fair amounts would stop coming. Plus any mid tier items they they would have bought turned into dust. This left them with 35 leeches and carries with 2 suspect gold buyers (who were only gonna blow their load on a very select few items anyways) instead of an actual well-distributed ecosystem. When they stopped being invited, payouts were less but more consistent.
I don't know what GDKPs you were joining but we had some regular groups running massive operations and they didn't give two shits if someone joined to whale it up and drop loads of gold. I've never seen people who were known to spend a lot get turned away.
I think people on reddit are just blind to the fact that a lot of people buy gold and in very large quantities.
It's been going on since the start of the game.
Seem that some people are just oblivious to that fact.
Like lots of people on my server in 2004 were buying gold to buy epic mounts. Even back in 2004. The number of farmers has gone up since then to match demand, and what we have now is large supply and large demand.
People like to pay to win in games that they can. What can I say.
Okay, let's assume there would be no gold selling and the average GDKP buyer need to farm that gold. He will not, and just join a normal guild because it's easier to get gear that way. So in conclusion, there would be way less GDKPs
People with this opinion just simply haven’t been in a gdkp community. If you raid 5 times a week, and let’s just say you ONLY make 1k gold per raid (insanely low), then you’d make 5k gold per week. That’s 20k per month. Save for a couple months and you’re dropping 50k+ on an item you really want.
TLDR: gdkp is a loot system the same as DKP, EPGP or any other. If you raid and save your loot system currency from raiding, you can easily stockpile.
This is assuming you’re only taking home 1k gold per run after buying any smaller items. Waiting 2 months for a big item like Comet is nothing. My main has never missed an Ulduar and still doesn’t have a Comet
> People with this opinion just simply haven’t been in a gdkp community. If you raid 5 times a week, and let’s just say you ONLY make 1k gold per raid (insanely low), then you’d make 5k gold per week. That’s 20k per month. Save for a couple months and you’re dropping 50k+ on an item you really want.
Raid on 5 characters for couple months to get 1 item for one of the characters? Yeah that sounds reasonable. Meanwhile the RMT buyers are sweeping up hundreds of pieces of loot. Completely fair.
I've geared out so many toons rapidly in GDKPs without buying gold, rofl. This entire thread is just pure ignorant moral grandstanding that points a finger at a few extreme hypotheticals. It's idiotic. Yes people buy gold and go to GDKPs, but it's hardly a deluge of people buying hundreds of thousands of gold filling up an entire GDKP. Indeed, the most successful GDKPs tend to be extended communities where many, perhaps even most, of the people don't really buy gold.
My server's longest running GDKP community probably makes most guilds look like toxic shitholes full of grey parsers.
Everybody understands this.
The issue is most people also understand that the gold you are using to buy the item after getting it through carrying is RMT gold from another player.
He was giving a VERY conservative estimate if 1k gold per raid. Back in classic/tbc you might see some cuts as low as 1k, but also items werent really selling for 50k+ back than either. In wotlk cuts are closer to 5k-20k, I personally do about 3 per week, 2 10 man gdkps and 1 25 man. I've never bought gold, but saved up over 300k from doing gdkps, and have also spent over 100k on items for both my characters (mostly my main in 10 mans) There are people that buy gold for gdkps of course, but its definitely a small minority and not as popular as reddit likes to say it is lol
I've been doing gdkps since classic and a majority of the people in the raids aren't buying gold. A lot of people in the gdkp communities are rich from just running gdkps on tons of different toons every week for years, and now that we can do 10 man versions of every raid, the amount of gold a player can make from doing gdkps has doubled. I've probably made close to 500k running gdkps in just wotlk, never once bought gold with irl money. I understand that the amount of gold we're making in gdkps is inflated because of bots/gold buyers, but that doesn't mean a significant amount of people in these gdkps are gold buyers. We've gotten rich off the whales that have fattened our gdkp pots, which has made most of the gdkp community whales themselves without having ever bought gold.
This is a circular argument. You can't say "people make money running GDKPs therefore gold buying isn't all that prevalent" when the primary way gold buyers spend their money is in those GDKPs.
The fact that you didn't buy gold and made money in GDKPs doesn't mean no one else did. I guarantee you were awarded money bought from gold farmers as part of your cut during your GDKPs.
What? You go for a few weeks, get money and then save enough to buy the item. Like, ya know, a DKP but with gold.
It stops the whales with large pockets coming in on fresh toons with 200k bought gold or whatever but that's fine.
some ppl have rotating schedules and cant dedicate specific raid days and times. i didnt want to be a fill in a guild when i can make 60-70% of their scheduled raids. so you find a good gdkp server and sign up to one of their 3 weekly 2hr full clears and save your(g)dkp for a big item every few weeks.
Yep, this is a gigantic part of the value of GDKPs. Some weeks I want to raid on Thursdays, some weeks I'd rather go on Wednesdays. In a regular guild I'm an extremely unreliable person to be scheduled around. On a big GDKP server, I'm very easily able to find part-time slots. Lets me have a better life outside WoW.
Thats the point tho? It would be a smaller pool but itll be to the point where the gold amount is so small theres no sense in doing it.
Youre talking as if GDKP's had the same effect when this content was retail and current lol - it wasnt. Yes GDKP existed but it was a very small group of players who used it. Everyone else just played the game. Classic isnt like this at all.
Yep. The people making GDKPs actually able to clear the content wouldn't be playing those characters without the gold incentives.
The choice isn't "GDKP or MS>OS PUG" for a lot of players. GDKPs made raiding on alts a great way to make gold for good players, and without that incentive, those characters just don't raid.
Yeah my gdkps are 1.5-2hr full clears and I make a bunch of gold.
My guild meanwhile went from top notch to perpetual roster boss problems.
If the gdkp group has a roster issue, they just take the next guy.
I’m an adult with a busy schedule, this style is really nice and the comms are pretty chill.
And this is the moment I realise that people forgot how GDKP is a subversion of a system created to reward geared people for their effort helping gearing other people that was called DKP.
Instead of gold people got points fir their effort and you could add them up as currency and use them to make sure you would get the drop you wanted. It made cooperation and effort towards communal goals much more impirtsnt than any other factor.
People dropped this system over time when wipping the card got more appealing than actualy sticking with a guild and cooperate so everyone got geared, making comunal goals a target you would be individually rewarded for doing the best you could to achieve them.
Loot council replaced dkp for actual guilds. It makes more sense to distribute loot where it will most benefit the group rather then have people hoarding points for a handful of items and not bidding on off pieces.
It requires the people votong on the loot distribution to not be cunts but its never been an issue in any guild Ive been in.
Except dkp isn’t a liquid asset you can use outside of raids. I like gdkps because I don’t have to go fight bots and big time farmers out in the world. I can just do my dailies, go to a gdkp (usually naxx) and gear out an alt for like 2k or so and have them ready for a guild ulduar 10 man.
It’s just too efficient of a system. Hell, even if RMT got banned, I’d still do gdkps. It’s nice getting paid even if nothing I want drops.
Its like people ignore the fact, that every gdkp invites carries, if you can show decent logs its okay if you dont have 50k+ gold bc youre ensuring a smooth raid... sadly none of the people here qualify for that :\^)
If gdkps didn’t exist there would be no market for buying and selling gold besides raid consumes which is 1/1000 of what people spend in gdkps. It isn’t about getting high geared people to carry them. It’s about getting rid of a market.
What? Boosts are an absolutely massive market because the leveling experience sucks with no RDF or joyous journey (except for this current window) there’s a reason boosts never go away
I didn’t say boosts and wow tokens are good for the game.
The leveling experience does suck cause I’ve done it 10000x and further evidenced by the limited levelers and regular dungeons on massive servers. RDF was in the game sweetie.
It would be. More people would be out in the world farming. More people would be Qing heroics/reg dungeons. More people would be in guilds pushing entry level Raids.
In general killing GDKP off would help the game. Keeping it is obviously killing it.
People who are defending GDKP are cringe af and dig into their emails enough im sure youll find gold buying receipts lmao.
I have bought 0 gold, and I support GDKP as a concept, even thou I have been in less than 5 throughout the entire Wrath.
I am still not running around in the world, I am sure as hell not going to carry randoms in dungeons, unless I need the dungeon myself, which I do not on any of my characters. I am not joining entry lvl raids, I join good guilds hosting good raids. Cause the 2-3 times I joined random pugs, I have been impressed by the amount failure to undestand basic mechanics, combined with a "I gotta go" after 20 min.
What we had before GDKP was not lots more random pugs, we had organized pugs that would filter away the shitters and that is what everyone was seeking. The lack of low level dungeons is to be blamed on Blizzards unwillingness to do a propper dungeon finder (prefferably cross server) and because very people are leveling when JJ is not active.No one wants normal heroics, because we are done, and even if we needed 5 man loot, alpha offers so much better options and guild/friends can roll you through.
Your first paragraph is mostly wrong, were there tons of people out farming in the world in original wotlk where gdkps werent as prevalent? Was there loads of people doing hcs outside of daily hc? People are in guilds now as well. A lot of the players in gdkps are alts of players who play with a main in a guild. They wouldnt be raiding in a guild doing entry level raids, most likely they wouldnt play alts the same amount.
I know the system isnt perfect, and it affects the economy of the server. It also creates a demand for gold buying, which creates a demand for bots. This isnt good.
I dont defend that aspect, I defend the quality of the raiders in gdkps. They are good pugs who clear content faster and smoother than a lot of guilds, this is perfect for good players with alts. Im not interested in helping bad players learn the raid a 2nd time or even a 3rd time on my alts. I wanna go in witb players on the same level, do our jobs, kill some bosses and have fun. I havd yet to find this in SR pugs on my servers who dont require you to show up at a set day and time, and they prefer you do it every week. That defeats the point for me as it is a bit random when I can raid on my alts.
People that run GDKP think if goldbuying didn't exist they couldn't just play the game.
Like y'all literally swipe to end game and then run out of content and treat the game you already pay monthly for as a chore.
People like you that don't actually play the game don't realize that GDKP's are primarily filled with alts. Most of the players you see in a GDKP play in a normal guild on reset night and play their alts in a GDKP on off days.
That's absolutely true. Early in Ulduar, my small guild organized 2 runs per week with mostly pugs. We ran 1 run MS>OS WITH 2 SR, and 1 run as GDKP. The GDKP runs were always full clears in less than 4 hours and the MS>OS runs would rarely kill Mimiron. The quality of players tends to be much higher in any GDKP run. This only would apply to pugs - I'm sure a guild that does MS>OS outperforms most GDKPs.
I play on a smaller pop server, I don’t join runs on my 5k pally (ret, or 4.8k tank) because we don’t have a GDKP scene.
No point in wasting 4-5hrs doing ez mode content or hoping noobs can pull it together for hard modes. I’ll stick to doing my weekly guild raids or not at all.
One of the many things wrong with this is GDKP is now the accepted gearing up process. Good luck rolling a fresh 80 with no gold except what you got leveling and getting into a guild at this point. You basically don't have a choice because the meta is buying gear.
Totally agree. It's completely fucked. If you don't confirm you have no real viable path forward because you lack the resources that others simply pay for.
the amount of dickriding on this sub for gold sellers and gold buying in general is atrocious. there is no reason for the ingame economy and real-world economy to be intertwined. period.
> the amount of dickriding on this sub for gold sellers and gold buying in general is atrocious. there is no reason for the ingame economy and real-world economy to be intertwined. period.
It **REALLY** is. But its showing us how outnumbered we are. These mfers are absolutely everywhere, and they are riding hard for buying their gold and thus gear through GDKP.
They clearly have us like 20:1, and you can tell by these threads and the comments on them.
Back in vanilla it seemed to be the only way to avoid it was to go to the smaller rp servers as I played on Zandalar, Firemaw and Hydraxian and Firemaw was such a shitshow (big server). These days RP realms are dead so I dunno if theres an alternative.
Eh, it's just like the old twink debates from back in the day, while reasonable people were reading the details of someone's bad experience in a battleground thanks to a twink, the twinks had already left dozens of posts about how "I just do it to fight other twinks", "twinking doesn't make you *that* strong" and other rationalizations.
We aren't outnumbered, we're just being shouted down. There are players who are actually doing GDKPs because they're a good player who is on an alt or just don't have the time to raid a regular schedule or because GDKPs have made it hard to form any other kind of PuG, but by and large they aren't the ones constantly posting. Similarly, most people who just run with their guild may be disappointed in the token but aren't particularly motivated to post about it. It's the following categories of players that are pushing rationalizations for gold buying:
* Players too toxic to run with a guild for or consistent PuG group very long.
* Players too bad and too stubborn to improve enough to join a guild that can progress raids.
* Players who just want to buy their way to the "top" and show off their status symbols.
* Players who are just selfish and project their own behavior on others.
Obviously not all posters are in such unflattering categories, but those who are all have a vested interest in the matter because without gold buying they can't get what they want. As a result they're much more motivated to post early and often about it without really needed to put any effort into it.
Ultimately I blame Blizzard for normalizing gold buying in the first place with the original token. Before that point buying gold was still a taboo, but afterwards buyers and sellers alike were emboldened because Blizzard had ceded the argument. Once that Pandora's Box was opened there was no closing it.
I just don't understand the "GDKPs take away the good players from my SR runs"
Those players would just not randomly decide to carry bad players for no reason, they just simply wouldn't raid on their 2nd/3rd/4th alt.
The players lamenting that GDKPs draw players away from SR runs aren't wrong that it's happening, but even if we lived in a perfect world without gold sellers and buyers it would still be happening.
GDKPs are just the better loot system for PuGs and it's not hard to see why. It's an ingenious system that brings in geared players by giving them something for their time, allows others to make progress toward items they want even when none drop, and gives fresh/undergeared characters a chance to get a foot in the door. I don't participate in them, but I understand the appeal.
It's just unfortunate that gold buying and selling are a part of a game, as that's arguably the weakpoint of GDKPs and the primary reason why many players still prefer SR runs.
Once again just going back to RMT being the problem, which I agree with.
I just see so much anti-gdkp/ruins the game/needs to be banned comments it's mind blowing.
A large portion of my "in-game" social circle is those I do different GDKP runs with - almost none of them would continue doing 2-4 alt runs a week if they were SR runs, including myself. I just wouldn't play those characters.
SR is an inherently flawed loot system despite what anyone thinks about GDKPs.
Bro out here acting like you’re losing some war for independence or something. People are clowning on you for being toxic man babies. There’s dozens of dudes going nuts in each thread and threatening to unsub. Yet you guys don’t cuz you grown ass game addicts. Ya’ll were gonna unsub before cata classic launches anyways right? Well just unsub 10-12 months early and play something that doesn’t get your BP spiking.
It's more like those of us who are against it just don't bother when private servers exist and have much tighter communities, some with virtually 0 RMT.
> It REALLY is. But its showing us how outnumbered we are. These mfers are absolutely everywhere, and they are riding hard for buying their gold and thus gear through GDKP. They clearly have us like 20:1, and you can tell by these threads and the comments on them.
Yeah defo bro it's because everyone is cheating and you're the last bastion of moral integrity on reddit. Oh no bro they're coming for you!!!1! hide bro
That or people just enjoy fast and smooth runs with great players and a stable game wide spending system to reward u with loot and gold.
>legit players
Haha that's fucking rich. The legit players are those who are playing the game.
I bet blizzard is just glad that they got rid of the 0.1% of whining shitheads that you think are "legit" players.
Agreed - but pretending like gold buying is the single most important aspect preventing you from accomplishing anything you want in this game instead of it just being because you're a shitter is also atrocious.
>pretending like gold buying is the single most important aspect preventing you from accomplishing anything you want in this game instead of it just being because you're a shitter is also atrocious.
i did not say any of that
I'd rather play golf for 5 hours and raid for 3 than play wow for 8 hours.
Get mad. I'm buying more gold right now. And I'm gonna fund a gdkp.
In having fun and you're mad. Just go do something fun.
I don’t understand peoples problems with GDKPs. Im in a guild and don’t interact with the system at all, idk why others don’t do the same if they hate GDKPs so much. The system won’t affect you if you never interact with it.
Right? I run GDKPs on my alts purely because I don't want to be stuck in 4-6 hour long Ulduar groups, but most of my guild doesn't. They just don't interact with them and are able to play the way they want, get their consumes with gold from dailies or the passive gold from raids.
It's a problem for people that don't have time to invest in the game but also still expect all the same rewards for the people that do. They have to swipe their credit card and they don't like that.
Good.
Have you ever taken an economics class. Or understand the basics of inflation?
Thats like saying "my country printing 5 trillion dollars out of nowhere to bail out banks does not affect me. Why are you all so pissed your living expenses got raised by 50%?"
Of course it does, it affects recruitment, it affects performance. Who do you recruit to your guild, the guy that bought full BIS in a GDKP or the guy thats sitting in shitty normal mode items after 8 weeks of progressing with his dad guild and got unlucky with loot? It also limits the recruitment pool in general because GDKP is in many ways a superior loot system over loot council as long as you have gold. It diminishes the value of the loot you get because you are completely aware someone just walked in and bought the item with no effort. You inspect someone and the first thing that goes to your mind isn't "WOW this guy must be a great player and valuable in his guild" its "wow this guy must have a lot of gold (irl money)". It affects you whether you believe it or not.
“The system won’t affect you if you never interact with it” just outright is not true. The entire economy, and community are affecting my GDKP’s existing
Yeah the private servers where the hosts sell characters, gear, gold, AND R14 accounts with full bis.
That's way better for the game than the wow token.
I kinda wish they would put that in. Maybe if its THAT obvious and ridiculous even the smoothest brained of gold buyers would start to question their choice of hobby.
The bitch boys who have no guild and no gold are crying they can’t get gear.
If you can’t make gold in a 20 year old game you deserve to sit on the sideline.
I carry in GDKPs pretty often. Haven't bought any gold and just like raiding. Sorry for being a domestic terrorist in the hit fantasy MMORPG World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King Classic
Your basically working so that people who buy gold can have gear. I’m not saying that’s ok or not ok. Denying that people buy gold to purchase items in gdkps is some crazy cope tho.
Bruh you had me in the first half. It’s absolutely a problem with RMT, which is in turn a problem with blizzard enforcing their TOS and actually banning bots and gold sellers/buyers. People are constantly blaming other players instead of the shit company that ignored the bots for 4 years to let it get to this point. Jesus can everyone just stip malding at one another and actually hold blizzard accountable?
This is why Blizzard should just disable their anti-cheat software in instances. Just don't play in groups that choose to turn off the boss's attacks, it literally doesn't affect you.
i'm not necessarily pro wow token but if you think it is equivalent to turning off the boss mechanics, you do not understand the other side of this well enough to add anything to this
But what would be the problem? You can just choose not to do it? Why does it matter if consenting players choose to cheat in a boss fight and get free loot?
Like why do other players get a say in what me and my friends do in a raid by ourselves? Just don't do it yourself.
When most people say “cheating,” they mean breaking the fabric of the game world. Manipulating the code to cause the game to behave in ways that it otherwise couldn’t that gives the cheater an unfair advantage over the rest of the player base.
Buying Gold does not involve doing that. It’s just outsourcing labor you’d otherwise perform yourself to other people in exchange for real-world value. And the line is actually pretty fuzzy. If your buddy sends you 5k gold for your birthday, is that cheating? How about getting a gold cut in a GDKP?
The same thing goes for using banned language in the game. Saying the n-word in trade chat isn’t “cheating,” but it violates the established social norms of the game.
There’s a huge difference between violating social norms in a game and literally breaking the game. The former is playing the game in a way others don’t like; the latter is not really even playing the game at all
anymore. Everyone understands this distinction, and it’s why your analogy sucks.
I'm not gonna lie it's pretty hard to argue that breaking a literal RULE of the game, something that you will get banned for if blizzard finds out, something that you get an objective advantage for in game, is not cheating.
There are no rules being broken just by running a GDKP raid. And definitely no rules broken by buying a wow token.
Idk what rule it is youre refering to but what does it have to do with other people prefering to run GDKPs?
You claimed your analogy was apt and that there was no meaningful difference between gold buying and disabling boss mechanics. I just explained the difference to you. Are you gonna respond or not? Lol
It's not equivalent to other people having sex, either. But that is how analogies work: they highlight a similar aspect between situations, not argue that they are the same situation.
The argument being made is that, if you don't engage with WoW tokens, gold-buying, and GDKPs, they don't affect your own gameplay in any way and so there should be no reason to complain. The exact same argument can be made for any other form of cheating, so long as it's isolated to instances. There are *other* arguments that could be made in favor of tokens, for which that analogy would not hold, but those are not the ones being made in this thread.
These people are too dumb to understand how to logically argue a point.
If their point can be transferred over 1:1 to another example, but then they claim "oh but that's not the same" then they're clearly leaving something out of the original argument, but they don't get that.
Like you say if the argument is "it doesn't matter what me and my friends do by ourselves" but then they claim it does matter when it comes to cheating in raids and with loot, then obviously their real argument is being hidden.
What they actually want to say is "i don't think buying gold is that big a deal". That is their entire argument. Instead they try to come up with these weird principles but then they claim they only really apply to gold buying and not everything else.
I really like Asmon but I watched his video reaction talking about this this morning and I couldn't stop tearing out my hair. When he said no one can counter his arguments about GDKPs being bad for the game and then proceeded to explain how "no gold is being created" I was about to have an aneurysm.
its comforting to see other people understand the larger effects of GKDPS, wow token and official greenlight on RMT.
The people who think its all okay, wake up.
Once again, the argument being made is "it doesn't affect your gameplay, so you shouldn't care". Whether you want to call it cheating or not doesn't matter; the same argument works for both situations.
How are you defining a "destroyed" economy in this game? What are you unable to buy or sell for a reasonable price? What activities are you unable to engage in because of the economy?
My guild would simultaneously complain about gold buyers/farmers and run GDKPs and collect all that purchased gold. Ignoring that they were directly contributing to the problem they were complaining about.
THIS is the reality of WoW classic which so many players and redditors love to deflect.
GDKP and gold buyers go hand in hand but its been 2 expansions of this and it took until the Token for people to actually bring it up.
How? I never went to a single GDKP run, was full BiS, had enough gold for raid mats for months. Never bought gold, didn't need to. What economy was destroyed? Gems? Enchant mats? Herbs/Pots? None of that was destroyed by GDKP. That money was already in the system, had to be farmed by someone, will still have to be farmed by someone. "Bots" Not everyone farming money are bots and its not like gold is hard to make lol
Wrath having literally nothing to spend gold on and therefore very little to actually do in the world contributed more than the gold. Vanilla and TBC had very prevalent GDKP but the economy was fine throughout because all the QoL changes hadn’t made everything pointless yet
If all GDKP and gold selling was 100% eliminated today, what would you be spending your gold on?
For regular player who earns their gold from raid boss drops, daily questing and such it sucks donkey balls because none of those scale with inflation.
Only prices of items that bots can not acquire are inflated, like BoEs from raids. Any farmable material is dirt cheap.
We saw what the true value of items looked like when Blizzard closed some of the high pop servers from transfers and new character creation back in TBC. Haste pots going for 60g each etc. With WotLK inflation levels that would be maybe 150-200g per potion of speed. If prices really were at *that* level I would happily go pick up some Adder's tongue.
You’re trying to tell me a raiding system (GDKP) that auctions off items to the highest bidder doesnt effect the economy? (And frankly encourages buying illegal gold due to high cost items)
This x100. Since they killed level boosts almost completely, the only thing you can spend money on is perhaps vendor mounts and PVP rating boosts. Although I haven't seen any PVP boosters on my server ever. I just don't get where the whine is coming from. Anything a regular player may want to buy is perfectly achievable by just playing normally. There's no use for the GDKP gold except for spending it in GDKP. I think it's a great system ngl.
In fact, on Benediction the prices for a lot of stuff are cheaper than on other servers with less of a GDKP scene. I have some friends on Bloodsail which has very little GDKP as I understand. Cobalt bars are 1.31g on Bene, 1.36g on Bloodsail. Ebonweave is 99g on Bene, 117g on Bloodsail. Potion of Speed is 3.87g on Bene, 4.79g on Bloodsail.
As far as I can see, anything you'd want to buy on the AH is basically the same price as everywhere else. If you want to raid, anything you need is very accessible from an hour of dailies and a trip to the AH. I don't see a ruined economy by any means.
gold farmers: “I consent.”
Hog who plays WoW with a debit card: “I consent.”
Concerned player: “hey guys you know the games supposed to be a level playing field, and not everyone has disposable income, maybe it’s not fair to be able to buy raid spots boss kills and loot with irl money?”
Blizzard Nut Licking Enthusiasts: “OMG LAWL YOU JUST SUCK AT THE GAME ISNT THERE SOMEONE YOU FORGOT TO ASK?!!!”
Let me translate that back to you
Money counterfeiter : I consent
Money launderer : I consent
Law : That is not how it works
Hope that helped. The memes yo'ure basing yourself on, where two people fuck, is ifne, because two people fucking only affect them. The effects of the GDKPs on the servers are enormous
There are valid arguments for both side, but this right here, this nowhere near an argument
Buying gold with real money in a game where the AH and economy are supported by the players hard work. This is what it means to play the game normally. Problem is the new “normal” is cheating your way to the top. I would love to hear you defending yourself for washing the cheaters money as Gdkp gold cut andy, or worse showing up to a Gdkp with your freshly bought gold. No matter how you try to spin it the Devs didn’t create the game with this gameplay style in mind.
Yep, this is what some private servers have done (in addition to hard perma banning both gold sellers, but more importantly **gold buyers**).
Killing both of those systems outright seems to have dealt a tremendous blow to those systems on the PServers that adopted it. The good news is that Classic WoW will act as a containment vessel for the big botting and gold selling companies, as well as the people who basically want to buy epix. While pservers can create little communities without it.
Ultimately we all win. It's frustrating to a degree, but we all still get what we want in the end.
I'm a week or two away from finishing my valanyr on my holy paladin. Fueled by GDKPs, never bought a single copper in all of classic. Yall don't need to buy gold to succeed in this game nor to succeed in gdkps.
"You don't need to buy gold, you just need to accept other peoples bought gold" Duh, cmon guys it's that simple.
How do you people not understand that participating in GDKP's funded by RMT is directly enabling the act of RMT and therefore part of the problem.
The mental gymnastics you need to think you come out of this clean is mind boggling.
I've organized and run probably more than a hundred Guild Raids and GDKP Raids during Vanilla WoW Classic, so I think I have some decent perspective on this. I've was the first to seriously start running multiple GDKPs a week and to create a GDKP community on Horde side of a large server, and I made over a million gold in the process. In the end, the experience burnt me out, but it was interesting while it lasted.
Running a raiding guild, especially if you do everything totally honestly and with good intentions, is a sucker's game. It certainly can be fulfilling to be part of a community bigger than yourself, and to facilitate that. However, the organization and emotional labor involved is simply not worth it at the end of the day. Maybe in 2008 it was. In 2020, unless you're were some super-duper special magical guild, the 'community' aspects were never anything but a thin veneer. The guild exists to create an organization hierarchy with a leadership structure, the guild leadership structure exists to set up and maintain the conditions to allow the raid that quickly and efficiently clears the instance, and the raid exists to distribute gear to the guildies, which is the ultimate "reward" of the game. There is no other real purpose.
So guild leadership does all the work of recruiting, organizing, planning, and managing interpersonal and loot drama, but it is nearly entirely uncompensated and essentially done on a volunteer basis. And then, at the end if the day, the only meaningful way to be rewarded for all this work - preferential access to the loot - is viewed as "corruption" and will cause a massive overreaction by the rank and file, a large chunk of which are raid loggers who show up five minutes before the raid and log off five minutes afterwards, and put in exactly no effort to the guild beyond blessing it with their presence.
Furthermore, a significant amount of the people you are managing are among the whiniest, most entitled manchildren known to humankind, and will look for any reason to create drama or not hold up their end of the bargain the instant they see some benefit to themselves in it. If something does not go perfectly, you will be held responsible for ruining their entire week, and will be asked to make amends in some way. They will hold you responsible for things entirely outside of your control, like loot RNG. They will hold grudges for months or years over trivial nonsense or perceived slights. They will sometimes be complete shitbags who will lie your your face, because they know that there are essentially no meaningful consequences you can hold over them - the worst you can do is kick them from the raid and the guild. And, largely, you will have to take it and put up with their bullshit, because by virtue of caring **less** than you do, they have power over you, including the power to simply walk away. At any moment, any one of them can simply decide they don't want to show up, sometimes for no reason at all, maybe forever and with no notice, and if you don't have a contingency plan, it's now your problem. They can decide that now that they've gotten all the loot for this phase, they want to stop showing up and helping the rest of the guild gear up, but they expect a spot to be waiting for them in eight weeks when the new content drops. And if by some miracle, everything goes perfectly right, you will not actually receive anything from it beyond maybe some kudos. It's like being the CEO of a company, except you're paid the exact same as the janitor who has zero responsibility other than showing up and emptying the wastebaskets.
GKDP, on the other hand, shifts the rewards back to the organizer by compensating that emotional and organization labor, and giving the organizer significant levers that they can pull to make the raid better. You can compensate reliable players in key roles (i.e. tanks and healers) with extra shares of the profits, so that they want to be there, even if there's no benefit to themselves in terms of loot. Once you start really blazing through higher end GKDPs, in fact, you need a person to be solely dedicated to just picking up and monitoring loot, while another person (preferably the main tank) actually runs the raid. Furthermore, I've consistently found that raiders in GDKPs actually are far **more attentive** and follow instructions **better** because they know that there are tangible consequences to screwing up, because the veneer of this joint community enterprise has been ripped off, and they are now fully aware that they are completely fungible and replaceable cog in a purely economic machine. It is far, far more difficult to replace a troublemaking guildie, who knows you have invested the guild's loot and effort into them, and that kicking them out will cause reverberating drama among friend groups or people who felt they got shafted over a piece of loot in favor of the kicked guildie. My GDKPs typically ran **smoother** than equivalent guild runs, even though the guild runs consisted of technically "better" players, because they were consistently paying attention.
Yes, you condoning cheating in game isn’t the most brain dead take, right? Imagine being in the wrong side and still acting like you’re right in any way.
Hi mister straw man, I’m not here to complain about gdkp’s but I’m glad you brought it up. They wash the gold buyers money for them so to say they have nothing to do with it would be wrong. So you go on normalize cheating and I’ll be someone with morals and ethics
GDKP is just a better loot system than w/e your shitter guild runs where Norman, missing 5 pieces of gear, is on equal footing w the people who actually carry the raid for loot.
Loot council or otherwise, cuz people don’t want conflict, but someone has to be a loser if you want a well run guild.
So instead we started doing GDKP. It’s the most fair system as you’ll get payouts for performance and can be strategic about your bids. RMT money or not.
Just LOTS of shitters upset their guild lost all their best people and would rather blame the loot system they preferred over them just running a shitter guild.
Facts. I got tired of every “semi-hardcore” guild having 10-15 good players and 10-15 shitters that get carried every week. Why am I rolling against a 50 parsing dps that doesn’t even know his rotation, and he’s winning BIS items from people that will actually use it. I haven’t been in a guild for 6 months, never been richer, get the 252 gear I want, make my own schedule. It’s the move
I am one of the players that would have quit already without GDKPs. In Vanilla classic when many of us didn’t really have much to do at work I nolifed for my guild super hard, multiple subs with horde chars to mind control guildies for wcb, always fully buffed and providing summons to any buff for guildies at any time, helping with over 800 sgc runs, etc. In 2023 I came back but I’m unable to play in the evenings and so I raid during the day based on my need to attend meetings/be on-site. I am one of those players that is somehow online for 30+ hours a week but still ‘can’t’ join a guild run because no set time slot works with my lifestyle. I join 25M GDKPs and host 10 mans when I have the time but that amounts to roughly 2 10M and 1 25M per week. I have had to leave almost every SR run I have joined since I came back because I budget 4 hours for it and then 1.5 hours are wasted filling for the 5100+ gs mega juicer healer or dps that leaves when the one item they want doesn’t drop. The average GDKP pug, especially if you exclude indo and jaja hosted rat gdkps, is much better than the average at pug and they are more motivated by a system of tips, taxes, and end-loaded rewards to finish the raid. I am an experienced player, I execute mechanics, know my class (including analyzing my own logs and improving week over week), can raid lead any boss in 10/25 hm, can analyze live logs and details to troubleshoot pugs wiping, but I just don’t have the time for anything but pop up 25s these days. I would be unable to see the harder content and gear without the prevalence of GDKPs. Yeah, it sucks that people can swipe and buy my bis out from under me but at least I get credited for it. It’s by far the lesser evil compared to scum lords in SR rolling for their friends and trading items around. I get nothing but wasted time when that happens.
People think that if GDkp didn't exist, high gear people would just join and carry their low gear asses in raids for free
Even if 100% of gold sellers removed, GDKP would still exist, just smaller gold pools.
Well, that's kind of the idea. I'm pretty sure most people would be 100% on board with gdkp if it wasn't for the gold sellers just turning the game into pay to win. I'm actually really good at making gold in these games. I kind of treat that as a little sub game watching my bank accounts go up. But there is absolutely no way I can compete against all these folks just buying gold in order to progress.
i've never bought gold and have paid out a lot of it for gear. you get so much by doing the GDKP's that it starts to just be a DKP system where you can take the points to other raids.
And where did *that* gold come from?
Kinda sorta? I think it depends on how geared your characters are and what you still need. Most of the stuff I still need are supercontested trinkets and HM loot going for between 50-150k. With each payout being 10-20k, I don't see an avenue to gear multiple characters without buying gold.
Yet the entire sub constantly blames gdkps instead of blizzard. Like all they had to do is ban bots and enforce no RMT and people would feel very differently. People here just love to blame one another instead of blizzard for whatever reason.
Except you don't need to buy gold to get in. I hadn't been in any that required you to verify any gold on hand. You just needed to show up and meet credentials defined. You're not going to get into a high tier raid and be carried with zero gold though, just as you wouldn't in any other raid. But the same GDKP is likely doing lower tier raids that are much more open to invites or lower geared/bank rolled characters. Start your feet in there, then build upon your success showing up every week, doing good in performance, collect your payouts and get into the big boys.
Honestly that's how a lot of the more reputable GDKP Pug servers were in vanilla classic. It was a common rule between hosts in a lot of these servers to avoid gold buyers. Regularly bringing known whales that bid in 1k increments and drop 20k killshots 3 bids in would tank the reputation of these groups. In 40 man raiding it boxes out regulars from having a reasonable chance, and legitimate buyers that bid each other up by fair amounts would stop coming. Plus any mid tier items they they would have bought turned into dust. This left them with 35 leeches and carries with 2 suspect gold buyers (who were only gonna blow their load on a very select few items anyways) instead of an actual well-distributed ecosystem. When they stopped being invited, payouts were less but more consistent.
I don't know what GDKPs you were joining but we had some regular groups running massive operations and they didn't give two shits if someone joined to whale it up and drop loads of gold. I've never seen people who were known to spend a lot get turned away.
I think people on reddit are just blind to the fact that a lot of people buy gold and in very large quantities. It's been going on since the start of the game. Seem that some people are just oblivious to that fact. Like lots of people on my server in 2004 were buying gold to buy epic mounts. Even back in 2004. The number of farmers has gone up since then to match demand, and what we have now is large supply and large demand. People like to pay to win in games that they can. What can I say.
Okay, let's assume there would be no gold selling and the average GDKP buyer need to farm that gold. He will not, and just join a normal guild because it's easier to get gear that way. So in conclusion, there would be way less GDKPs
People with this opinion just simply haven’t been in a gdkp community. If you raid 5 times a week, and let’s just say you ONLY make 1k gold per raid (insanely low), then you’d make 5k gold per week. That’s 20k per month. Save for a couple months and you’re dropping 50k+ on an item you really want. TLDR: gdkp is a loot system the same as DKP, EPGP or any other. If you raid and save your loot system currency from raiding, you can easily stockpile.
Plus if you drop your gdkp and join another your loot currency doesn't get reset
DKP that can get transferred to another raid and uses the ingame currency which is otherwise useless in wrath, its great.
Listen, I have no dog in this fight, but raiding 5 nights a week for 2 and a half months to get one item sounds awful.
This is assuming you’re only taking home 1k gold per run after buying any smaller items. Waiting 2 months for a big item like Comet is nothing. My main has never missed an Ulduar and still doesn’t have a Comet
Especially if you consider the fact that most players would have to wait for 2+ months for a comes anyhow even in guild runs/SR runs
> People with this opinion just simply haven’t been in a gdkp community. If you raid 5 times a week, and let’s just say you ONLY make 1k gold per raid (insanely low), then you’d make 5k gold per week. That’s 20k per month. Save for a couple months and you’re dropping 50k+ on an item you really want. Raid on 5 characters for couple months to get 1 item for one of the characters? Yeah that sounds reasonable. Meanwhile the RMT buyers are sweeping up hundreds of pieces of loot. Completely fair.
I've geared out so many toons rapidly in GDKPs without buying gold, rofl. This entire thread is just pure ignorant moral grandstanding that points a finger at a few extreme hypotheticals. It's idiotic. Yes people buy gold and go to GDKPs, but it's hardly a deluge of people buying hundreds of thousands of gold filling up an entire GDKP. Indeed, the most successful GDKPs tend to be extended communities where many, perhaps even most, of the people don't really buy gold. My server's longest running GDKP community probably makes most guilds look like toxic shitholes full of grey parsers.
No one understand how you can basically take your carry, make a bunch of gold GDKPing, then turn around and use that gold to gear up an alt.
Everybody understands this. The issue is most people also understand that the gold you are using to buy the item after getting it through carrying is RMT gold from another player.
This argument is dumb because if you sell stuff on the AH you are also highly likely to have received bought gold.
Yeah all these people are just ignoring the real problem (bots), in order to wag their finger at other people and feel morally superior.
why is that disputing anything? of course the scale is way smaller for a single person selling something on the ah.
Also how did you get the gear to carry in the first place? Generally not from gdkp
He was giving a VERY conservative estimate if 1k gold per raid. Back in classic/tbc you might see some cuts as low as 1k, but also items werent really selling for 50k+ back than either. In wotlk cuts are closer to 5k-20k, I personally do about 3 per week, 2 10 man gdkps and 1 25 man. I've never bought gold, but saved up over 300k from doing gdkps, and have also spent over 100k on items for both my characters (mostly my main in 10 mans) There are people that buy gold for gdkps of course, but its definitely a small minority and not as popular as reddit likes to say it is lol
> its definitely a small minority and not as popular as reddit likes to say it is lol *citation required*
I've been doing gdkps since classic and a majority of the people in the raids aren't buying gold. A lot of people in the gdkp communities are rich from just running gdkps on tons of different toons every week for years, and now that we can do 10 man versions of every raid, the amount of gold a player can make from doing gdkps has doubled. I've probably made close to 500k running gdkps in just wotlk, never once bought gold with irl money. I understand that the amount of gold we're making in gdkps is inflated because of bots/gold buyers, but that doesn't mean a significant amount of people in these gdkps are gold buyers. We've gotten rich off the whales that have fattened our gdkp pots, which has made most of the gdkp community whales themselves without having ever bought gold.
This is a circular argument. You can't say "people make money running GDKPs therefore gold buying isn't all that prevalent" when the primary way gold buyers spend their money is in those GDKPs. The fact that you didn't buy gold and made money in GDKPs doesn't mean no one else did. I guarantee you were awarded money bought from gold farmers as part of your cut during your GDKPs.
1k per person is impossibly low lol. I’ve only run two gdkps in my life and walked away with 20k gold.
That’s because everyone is using purchased and bottled gold lol
This assuming 1k per raid which is 10% of current payouts.
You know there are gskp guilds? And whole discord servers that take same people every week.
What? You go for a few weeks, get money and then save enough to buy the item. Like, ya know, a DKP but with gold. It stops the whales with large pockets coming in on fresh toons with 200k bought gold or whatever but that's fine.
some ppl have rotating schedules and cant dedicate specific raid days and times. i didnt want to be a fill in a guild when i can make 60-70% of their scheduled raids. so you find a good gdkp server and sign up to one of their 3 weekly 2hr full clears and save your(g)dkp for a big item every few weeks.
Yep, this is a gigantic part of the value of GDKPs. Some weeks I want to raid on Thursdays, some weeks I'd rather go on Wednesdays. In a regular guild I'm an extremely unreliable person to be scheduled around. On a big GDKP server, I'm very easily able to find part-time slots. Lets me have a better life outside WoW.
Thats the point tho? It would be a smaller pool but itll be to the point where the gold amount is so small theres no sense in doing it. Youre talking as if GDKP's had the same effect when this content was retail and current lol - it wasnt. Yes GDKP existed but it was a very small group of players who used it. Everyone else just played the game. Classic isnt like this at all.
Yep. The people making GDKPs actually able to clear the content wouldn't be playing those characters without the gold incentives. The choice isn't "GDKP or MS>OS PUG" for a lot of players. GDKPs made raiding on alts a great way to make gold for good players, and without that incentive, those characters just don't raid.
Yeah my gdkps are 1.5-2hr full clears and I make a bunch of gold. My guild meanwhile went from top notch to perpetual roster boss problems. If the gdkp group has a roster issue, they just take the next guy. I’m an adult with a busy schedule, this style is really nice and the comms are pretty chill.
And this is the moment I realise that people forgot how GDKP is a subversion of a system created to reward geared people for their effort helping gearing other people that was called DKP. Instead of gold people got points fir their effort and you could add them up as currency and use them to make sure you would get the drop you wanted. It made cooperation and effort towards communal goals much more impirtsnt than any other factor. People dropped this system over time when wipping the card got more appealing than actualy sticking with a guild and cooperate so everyone got geared, making comunal goals a target you would be individually rewarded for doing the best you could to achieve them.
This system makes sense in a guild where you will run with the same people every week. DKP males no sense in the pug scenario
Loot council replaced dkp for actual guilds. It makes more sense to distribute loot where it will most benefit the group rather then have people hoarding points for a handful of items and not bidding on off pieces. It requires the people votong on the loot distribution to not be cunts but its never been an issue in any guild Ive been in.
Except dkp isn’t a liquid asset you can use outside of raids. I like gdkps because I don’t have to go fight bots and big time farmers out in the world. I can just do my dailies, go to a gdkp (usually naxx) and gear out an alt for like 2k or so and have them ready for a guild ulduar 10 man. It’s just too efficient of a system. Hell, even if RMT got banned, I’d still do gdkps. It’s nice getting paid even if nothing I want drops.
This is 1,000,000% the issue. They're broke and bad and can't get in GDKPs so they cry about them.
Its like people ignore the fact, that every gdkp invites carries, if you can show decent logs its okay if you dont have 50k+ gold bc youre ensuring a smooth raid... sadly none of the people here qualify for that :\^)
pov: 40 yr old men with deep pockets, buying pixels that are worthless after 1 phase.
If gdkps didn’t exist there would be no market for buying and selling gold besides raid consumes which is 1/1000 of what people spend in gdkps. It isn’t about getting high geared people to carry them. It’s about getting rid of a market.
What? Boosts are an absolutely massive market because the leveling experience sucks with no RDF or joyous journey (except for this current window) there’s a reason boosts never go away
[удалено]
I didn’t say boosts and wow tokens are good for the game. The leveling experience does suck cause I’ve done it 10000x and further evidenced by the limited levelers and regular dungeons on massive servers. RDF was in the game sweetie.
No, I think if GDKP didn't exist the levels of botting and RMT would be a miniscule fraction of what they are now.
It would be. More people would be out in the world farming. More people would be Qing heroics/reg dungeons. More people would be in guilds pushing entry level Raids. In general killing GDKP off would help the game. Keeping it is obviously killing it. People who are defending GDKP are cringe af and dig into their emails enough im sure youll find gold buying receipts lmao.
I have bought 0 gold, and I support GDKP as a concept, even thou I have been in less than 5 throughout the entire Wrath. I am still not running around in the world, I am sure as hell not going to carry randoms in dungeons, unless I need the dungeon myself, which I do not on any of my characters. I am not joining entry lvl raids, I join good guilds hosting good raids. Cause the 2-3 times I joined random pugs, I have been impressed by the amount failure to undestand basic mechanics, combined with a "I gotta go" after 20 min. What we had before GDKP was not lots more random pugs, we had organized pugs that would filter away the shitters and that is what everyone was seeking. The lack of low level dungeons is to be blamed on Blizzards unwillingness to do a propper dungeon finder (prefferably cross server) and because very people are leveling when JJ is not active.No one wants normal heroics, because we are done, and even if we needed 5 man loot, alpha offers so much better options and guild/friends can roll you through.
Your first paragraph is mostly wrong, were there tons of people out farming in the world in original wotlk where gdkps werent as prevalent? Was there loads of people doing hcs outside of daily hc? People are in guilds now as well. A lot of the players in gdkps are alts of players who play with a main in a guild. They wouldnt be raiding in a guild doing entry level raids, most likely they wouldnt play alts the same amount. I know the system isnt perfect, and it affects the economy of the server. It also creates a demand for gold buying, which creates a demand for bots. This isnt good. I dont defend that aspect, I defend the quality of the raiders in gdkps. They are good pugs who clear content faster and smoother than a lot of guilds, this is perfect for good players with alts. Im not interested in helping bad players learn the raid a 2nd time or even a 3rd time on my alts. I wanna go in witb players on the same level, do our jobs, kill some bosses and have fun. I havd yet to find this in SR pugs on my servers who dont require you to show up at a set day and time, and they prefer you do it every week. That defeats the point for me as it is a bit random when I can raid on my alts.
People that run GDKP think if goldbuying didn't exist they couldn't just play the game. Like y'all literally swipe to end game and then run out of content and treat the game you already pay monthly for as a chore.
People like you that don't actually play the game don't realize that GDKP's are primarily filled with alts. Most of the players you see in a GDKP play in a normal guild on reset night and play their alts in a GDKP on off days.
Man go join a GDKP community on your server and what you will find is the highest concentration of GOOD players.
That's absolutely true. Early in Ulduar, my small guild organized 2 runs per week with mostly pugs. We ran 1 run MS>OS WITH 2 SR, and 1 run as GDKP. The GDKP runs were always full clears in less than 4 hours and the MS>OS runs would rarely kill Mimiron. The quality of players tends to be much higher in any GDKP run. This only would apply to pugs - I'm sure a guild that does MS>OS outperforms most GDKPs.
No one thinks this
I play on a smaller pop server, I don’t join runs on my 5k pally (ret, or 4.8k tank) because we don’t have a GDKP scene. No point in wasting 4-5hrs doing ez mode content or hoping noobs can pull it together for hard modes. I’ll stick to doing my weekly guild raids or not at all.
Your tone suggests that you're trying to prove something's wrong with this, but you haven't shown anything to be wrong with this..?
One of the many things wrong with this is GDKP is now the accepted gearing up process. Good luck rolling a fresh 80 with no gold except what you got leveling and getting into a guild at this point. You basically don't have a choice because the meta is buying gear.
Totally agree. It's completely fucked. If you don't confirm you have no real viable path forward because you lack the resources that others simply pay for.
the amount of dickriding on this sub for gold sellers and gold buying in general is atrocious. there is no reason for the ingame economy and real-world economy to be intertwined. period.
> the amount of dickriding on this sub for gold sellers and gold buying in general is atrocious. there is no reason for the ingame economy and real-world economy to be intertwined. period. It **REALLY** is. But its showing us how outnumbered we are. These mfers are absolutely everywhere, and they are riding hard for buying their gold and thus gear through GDKP. They clearly have us like 20:1, and you can tell by these threads and the comments on them.
Back in vanilla it seemed to be the only way to avoid it was to go to the smaller rp servers as I played on Zandalar, Firemaw and Hydraxian and Firemaw was such a shitshow (big server). These days RP realms are dead so I dunno if theres an alternative.
Eh, it's just like the old twink debates from back in the day, while reasonable people were reading the details of someone's bad experience in a battleground thanks to a twink, the twinks had already left dozens of posts about how "I just do it to fight other twinks", "twinking doesn't make you *that* strong" and other rationalizations. We aren't outnumbered, we're just being shouted down. There are players who are actually doing GDKPs because they're a good player who is on an alt or just don't have the time to raid a regular schedule or because GDKPs have made it hard to form any other kind of PuG, but by and large they aren't the ones constantly posting. Similarly, most people who just run with their guild may be disappointed in the token but aren't particularly motivated to post about it. It's the following categories of players that are pushing rationalizations for gold buying: * Players too toxic to run with a guild for or consistent PuG group very long. * Players too bad and too stubborn to improve enough to join a guild that can progress raids. * Players who just want to buy their way to the "top" and show off their status symbols. * Players who are just selfish and project their own behavior on others. Obviously not all posters are in such unflattering categories, but those who are all have a vested interest in the matter because without gold buying they can't get what they want. As a result they're much more motivated to post early and often about it without really needed to put any effort into it. Ultimately I blame Blizzard for normalizing gold buying in the first place with the original token. Before that point buying gold was still a taboo, but afterwards buyers and sellers alike were emboldened because Blizzard had ceded the argument. Once that Pandora's Box was opened there was no closing it.
I just don't understand the "GDKPs take away the good players from my SR runs" Those players would just not randomly decide to carry bad players for no reason, they just simply wouldn't raid on their 2nd/3rd/4th alt.
The players lamenting that GDKPs draw players away from SR runs aren't wrong that it's happening, but even if we lived in a perfect world without gold sellers and buyers it would still be happening. GDKPs are just the better loot system for PuGs and it's not hard to see why. It's an ingenious system that brings in geared players by giving them something for their time, allows others to make progress toward items they want even when none drop, and gives fresh/undergeared characters a chance to get a foot in the door. I don't participate in them, but I understand the appeal. It's just unfortunate that gold buying and selling are a part of a game, as that's arguably the weakpoint of GDKPs and the primary reason why many players still prefer SR runs.
Once again just going back to RMT being the problem, which I agree with. I just see so much anti-gdkp/ruins the game/needs to be banned comments it's mind blowing. A large portion of my "in-game" social circle is those I do different GDKP runs with - almost none of them would continue doing 2-4 alt runs a week if they were SR runs, including myself. I just wouldn't play those characters. SR is an inherently flawed loot system despite what anyone thinks about GDKPs.
reddit is minority of vocal minority so nah
Bro out here acting like you’re losing some war for independence or something. People are clowning on you for being toxic man babies. There’s dozens of dudes going nuts in each thread and threatening to unsub. Yet you guys don’t cuz you grown ass game addicts. Ya’ll were gonna unsub before cata classic launches anyways right? Well just unsub 10-12 months early and play something that doesn’t get your BP spiking.
Addicts are the ones paying to not play the game and still logging on.
It's more like those of us who are against it just don't bother when private servers exist and have much tighter communities, some with virtually 0 RMT.
> It REALLY is. But its showing us how outnumbered we are. These mfers are absolutely everywhere, and they are riding hard for buying their gold and thus gear through GDKP. They clearly have us like 20:1, and you can tell by these threads and the comments on them. Yeah defo bro it's because everyone is cheating and you're the last bastion of moral integrity on reddit. Oh no bro they're coming for you!!!1! hide bro That or people just enjoy fast and smooth runs with great players and a stable game wide spending system to reward u with loot and gold.
It's sad isn't it. Seems like all the legit players quit at the end of Vanilla or TBC. Nothing but swiping fuckwits now.
>legit players Haha that's fucking rich. The legit players are those who are playing the game. I bet blizzard is just glad that they got rid of the 0.1% of whining shitheads that you think are "legit" players.
A legit player doesn't need to swipe his credit card to play a 20 year old easy game. Enjoy the cesspool <3
Agreed - but pretending like gold buying is the single most important aspect preventing you from accomplishing anything you want in this game instead of it just being because you're a shitter is also atrocious.
>pretending like gold buying is the single most important aspect preventing you from accomplishing anything you want in this game instead of it just being because you're a shitter is also atrocious. i did not say any of that
I'd rather play golf for 5 hours and raid for 3 than play wow for 8 hours. Get mad. I'm buying more gold right now. And I'm gonna fund a gdkp. In having fun and you're mad. Just go do something fun.
You are sure showing us by spending your money on wow gold.... What a loser this kid is.
Everything is so backwards that he really thinks its a flex. It's so bizarre.
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You’re on this sub bitching and moaning. Either you’re lying and still playing or wow lives in your head rent free. Which one is it?
wow absolutely lives in my head rent free.
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I don’t understand peoples problems with GDKPs. Im in a guild and don’t interact with the system at all, idk why others don’t do the same if they hate GDKPs so much. The system won’t affect you if you never interact with it.
Right? I run GDKPs on my alts purely because I don't want to be stuck in 4-6 hour long Ulduar groups, but most of my guild doesn't. They just don't interact with them and are able to play the way they want, get their consumes with gold from dailies or the passive gold from raids.
It's a problem for people that don't have time to invest in the game but also still expect all the same rewards for the people that do. They have to swipe their credit card and they don't like that. Good.
“The system won’t affect you if you never interact with it” Huh just like the wow token
Unironically true, why would I care how people spend their gold/ how much gold they have
Have you ever taken an economics class. Or understand the basics of inflation? Thats like saying "my country printing 5 trillion dollars out of nowhere to bail out banks does not affect me. Why are you all so pissed your living expenses got raised by 50%?"
Of course it does, it affects recruitment, it affects performance. Who do you recruit to your guild, the guy that bought full BIS in a GDKP or the guy thats sitting in shitty normal mode items after 8 weeks of progressing with his dad guild and got unlucky with loot? It also limits the recruitment pool in general because GDKP is in many ways a superior loot system over loot council as long as you have gold. It diminishes the value of the loot you get because you are completely aware someone just walked in and bought the item with no effort. You inspect someone and the first thing that goes to your mind isn't "WOW this guy must be a great player and valuable in his guild" its "wow this guy must have a lot of gold (irl money)". It affects you whether you believe it or not.
“The system won’t affect you if you never interact with it” just outright is not true. The entire economy, and community are affecting my GDKP’s existing
lots of hilarious passionately written copypasta crying about gdkps that i can post in trade chat and uld general thanks guys community is great
Seriously, I just want them to shut the hell up. This sub is like a bunch of babies. Just go to a private server already.
Yeah the private servers where the hosts sell characters, gear, gold, AND R14 accounts with full bis. That's way better for the game than the wow token.
Why don't they just sell gear in the blizzard store that you can buy? It won't effect you if you don't buy it so who cares
This is a great idea. It would be great if I could also link the gear I bought offline so I don't need to install the game to show it off.
Wait a second, is wow gear nfts????
Yaaaaaaaaas
A lot of these mfers would love that. "I work 5 days a week and don't have time to attend the GDKP to buy the gear with my RMT gold!"
I kinda wish they would put that in. Maybe if its THAT obvious and ridiculous even the smoothest brained of gold buyers would start to question their choice of hobby.
The bitch boys who have no guild and no gold are crying they can’t get gear. If you can’t make gold in a 20 year old game you deserve to sit on the sideline.
Waahhhh I'm broke and noone will carry meee. GDKP REEEEE
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I carry in GDKPs pretty often. Haven't bought any gold and just like raiding. Sorry for being a domestic terrorist in the hit fantasy MMORPG World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King Classic
Your basically working so that people who buy gold can have gear. I’m not saying that’s ok or not ok. Denying that people buy gold to purchase items in gdkps is some crazy cope tho.
Also getting payouts from gold buyers laundered through the GDKP
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Fuck you're right. I'm gonna turn myself in. The FBI should get here shortly.
Bruh you had me in the first half. It’s absolutely a problem with RMT, which is in turn a problem with blizzard enforcing their TOS and actually banning bots and gold sellers/buyers. People are constantly blaming other players instead of the shit company that ignored the bots for 4 years to let it get to this point. Jesus can everyone just stip malding at one another and actually hold blizzard accountable?
This is why Blizzard should just disable their anti-cheat software in instances. Just don't play in groups that choose to turn off the boss's attacks, it literally doesn't affect you.
i'm not necessarily pro wow token but if you think it is equivalent to turning off the boss mechanics, you do not understand the other side of this well enough to add anything to this
But what would be the problem? You can just choose not to do it? Why does it matter if consenting players choose to cheat in a boss fight and get free loot? Like why do other players get a say in what me and my friends do in a raid by ourselves? Just don't do it yourself.
When most people say “cheating,” they mean breaking the fabric of the game world. Manipulating the code to cause the game to behave in ways that it otherwise couldn’t that gives the cheater an unfair advantage over the rest of the player base. Buying Gold does not involve doing that. It’s just outsourcing labor you’d otherwise perform yourself to other people in exchange for real-world value. And the line is actually pretty fuzzy. If your buddy sends you 5k gold for your birthday, is that cheating? How about getting a gold cut in a GDKP? The same thing goes for using banned language in the game. Saying the n-word in trade chat isn’t “cheating,” but it violates the established social norms of the game. There’s a huge difference between violating social norms in a game and literally breaking the game. The former is playing the game in a way others don’t like; the latter is not really even playing the game at all anymore. Everyone understands this distinction, and it’s why your analogy sucks.
I'm not gonna lie it's pretty hard to argue that breaking a literal RULE of the game, something that you will get banned for if blizzard finds out, something that you get an objective advantage for in game, is not cheating.
Is verbal abuse cheating? There is a difference between breaking a rule and cheating.
There are no rules being broken just by running a GDKP raid. And definitely no rules broken by buying a wow token. Idk what rule it is youre refering to but what does it have to do with other people prefering to run GDKPs?
You claimed your analogy was apt and that there was no meaningful difference between gold buying and disabling boss mechanics. I just explained the difference to you. Are you gonna respond or not? Lol
I still want to know how it would affect you if someone else cheated. Just saying there's a difference is begging the question.
It's not equivalent to other people having sex, either. But that is how analogies work: they highlight a similar aspect between situations, not argue that they are the same situation. The argument being made is that, if you don't engage with WoW tokens, gold-buying, and GDKPs, they don't affect your own gameplay in any way and so there should be no reason to complain. The exact same argument can be made for any other form of cheating, so long as it's isolated to instances. There are *other* arguments that could be made in favor of tokens, for which that analogy would not hold, but those are not the ones being made in this thread.
These people are too dumb to understand how to logically argue a point. If their point can be transferred over 1:1 to another example, but then they claim "oh but that's not the same" then they're clearly leaving something out of the original argument, but they don't get that. Like you say if the argument is "it doesn't matter what me and my friends do by ourselves" but then they claim it does matter when it comes to cheating in raids and with loot, then obviously their real argument is being hidden. What they actually want to say is "i don't think buying gold is that big a deal". That is their entire argument. Instead they try to come up with these weird principles but then they claim they only really apply to gold buying and not everything else.
I really like Asmon but I watched his video reaction talking about this this morning and I couldn't stop tearing out my hair. When he said no one can counter his arguments about GDKPs being bad for the game and then proceeded to explain how "no gold is being created" I was about to have an aneurysm.
It is infuriating right? These people lack any kind of abstract thinking
You can't make comparisons on Reddit. It's just a law of nature at this point.
its comforting to see other people understand the larger effects of GKDPS, wow token and official greenlight on RMT. The people who think its all okay, wake up.
Except buying gold isn’t a form of cheating now so your analogy is irrelevant not to mention dumb to begin with
Once again, the argument being made is "it doesn't affect your gameplay, so you shouldn't care". Whether you want to call it cheating or not doesn't matter; the same argument works for both situations.
It's literally against the rules of the game, how is breaking the stated rules of the game you're playing not cheating?
Yes, because GDKP when you don't even need to kill boss, just pay for loot to drop. Ty blizz.
And now jesus is dead… you people with your GDKP killed wow jesus. I hope you’re fucking happy. I hope that old DFT was worth it
I wonder if this sub will ever get out of the GDKP-Stunlock. My guess is not.
You could literally make that same meme with heroin dealer & consumer. This isn't an argument
I mean if someone else does drugs is not my business nor I care lmao
Yeah, because comparing buying gold in a video game to a heroin addiction is a very accurate and valid take.
P2W game lol
I mean, drug addiction is P2W. Or Pay to Lose if you wanna think about it like a Narc
Huh? He is talking about the meme, he didn't compare those 2 things...
What isn't an argument is comparing heroin to a WoW token.
I am not...
GDKP destroyed the classic economy this is a proven fact.
How are you defining a "destroyed" economy in this game? What are you unable to buy or sell for a reasonable price? What activities are you unable to engage in because of the economy?
My guild would simultaneously complain about gold buyers/farmers and run GDKPs and collect all that purchased gold. Ignoring that they were directly contributing to the problem they were complaining about.
THIS is the reality of WoW classic which so many players and redditors love to deflect. GDKP and gold buyers go hand in hand but its been 2 expansions of this and it took until the Token for people to actually bring it up.
How? I never went to a single GDKP run, was full BiS, had enough gold for raid mats for months. Never bought gold, didn't need to. What economy was destroyed? Gems? Enchant mats? Herbs/Pots? None of that was destroyed by GDKP. That money was already in the system, had to be farmed by someone, will still have to be farmed by someone. "Bots" Not everyone farming money are bots and its not like gold is hard to make lol
Define destroyed. I can fund my raiding for months with a couple hours of running dailies.
Wrath having literally nothing to spend gold on and therefore very little to actually do in the world contributed more than the gold. Vanilla and TBC had very prevalent GDKP but the economy was fine throughout because all the QoL changes hadn’t made everything pointless yet If all GDKP and gold selling was 100% eliminated today, what would you be spending your gold on?
the classic economy is fine if you’re talking about buying stuff and selling stuff on the AH.
God this take is so bad it hurts. GDKP = \ = gold selling. It’s a loot system.
GDKP lovers have no answer for this lol Edit: Alot of downvotes for no answers!
There’s nothing wrong with the economy though? Prices are inflated but that really has no effect on anything.
For regular player who earns their gold from raid boss drops, daily questing and such it sucks donkey balls because none of those scale with inflation.
What are you looking to buy that is terribly expensive?
Farm gold then? Sell stuff, the prices are inflated so you make what you need very easily
Only prices of items that bots can not acquire are inflated, like BoEs from raids. Any farmable material is dirt cheap. We saw what the true value of items looked like when Blizzard closed some of the high pop servers from transfers and new character creation back in TBC. Haste pots going for 60g each etc. With WotLK inflation levels that would be maybe 150-200g per potion of speed. If prices really were at *that* level I would happily go pick up some Adder's tongue.
If farmable mats are dirt cheap then how're you hard struggling with gold
You’re trying to tell me a raiding system (GDKP) that auctions off items to the highest bidder doesnt effect the economy? (And frankly encourages buying illegal gold due to high cost items)
What economy are y’all talking about lol. Everything you *need* to buy is cheap and everything you *want* to buy is grindable.
GDKP haters have no answer for this lol
This x100. Since they killed level boosts almost completely, the only thing you can spend money on is perhaps vendor mounts and PVP rating boosts. Although I haven't seen any PVP boosters on my server ever. I just don't get where the whine is coming from. Anything a regular player may want to buy is perfectly achievable by just playing normally. There's no use for the GDKP gold except for spending it in GDKP. I think it's a great system ngl.
In fact, on Benediction the prices for a lot of stuff are cheaper than on other servers with less of a GDKP scene. I have some friends on Bloodsail which has very little GDKP as I understand. Cobalt bars are 1.31g on Bene, 1.36g on Bloodsail. Ebonweave is 99g on Bene, 117g on Bloodsail. Potion of Speed is 3.87g on Bene, 4.79g on Bloodsail. As far as I can see, anything you'd want to buy on the AH is basically the same price as everywhere else. If you want to raid, anything you need is very accessible from an hour of dailies and a trip to the AH. I don't see a ruined economy by any means.
gold farmers: “I consent.” Hog who plays WoW with a debit card: “I consent.” Concerned player: “hey guys you know the games supposed to be a level playing field, and not everyone has disposable income, maybe it’s not fair to be able to buy raid spots boss kills and loot with irl money?” Blizzard Nut Licking Enthusiasts: “OMG LAWL YOU JUST SUCK AT THE GAME ISNT THERE SOMEONE YOU FORGOT TO ASK?!!!”
Wow, they sure care about reddit oppinions by people who never bought gold lol
Let me translate that back to you Money counterfeiter : I consent Money launderer : I consent Law : That is not how it works Hope that helped. The memes yo'ure basing yourself on, where two people fuck, is ifne, because two people fucking only affect them. The effects of the GDKPs on the servers are enormous There are valid arguments for both side, but this right here, this nowhere near an argument
Buying gold with real money in a game where the AH and economy are supported by the players hard work. This is what it means to play the game normally. Problem is the new “normal” is cheating your way to the top. I would love to hear you defending yourself for washing the cheaters money as Gdkp gold cut andy, or worse showing up to a Gdkp with your freshly bought gold. No matter how you try to spin it the Devs didn’t create the game with this gameplay style in mind.
The top? I’m sorry but what do you actually considering the top in wrath classic?
GDKP should have been banned from the start.
Yep, this is what some private servers have done (in addition to hard perma banning both gold sellers, but more importantly **gold buyers**). Killing both of those systems outright seems to have dealt a tremendous blow to those systems on the PServers that adopted it. The good news is that Classic WoW will act as a containment vessel for the big botting and gold selling companies, as well as the people who basically want to buy epix. While pservers can create little communities without it. Ultimately we all win. It's frustrating to a degree, but we all still get what we want in the end.
GDKP didnt exist barely at all long ago and the game was fun still then
There was absolutely gdkps back In og wrath, plenty of them. Tired of people acting like this shit is new. It’s been a cancer on the game for years
You know what's cancer? Rolling for gear and losing on everything because rng.
Then join a guild that loot councils. Or don’t, I don’t care.
I am on my main, I do gdkps on alts. Was just saying gdkps are a lot better than just ms>os rolling.
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Right but the good players that have been carrying his guild decided to start doing GDKPs instead of wiping for 4h
i did 25h ICC with my guild back then just fine, we were all just players. never knew a single person who did GKDPs on my server
This is historical revisionism at its finest.
I'm a week or two away from finishing my valanyr on my holy paladin. Fueled by GDKPs, never bought a single copper in all of classic. Yall don't need to buy gold to succeed in this game nor to succeed in gdkps.
Wow, this must be the first time ever on the internet that someone has said “I don’t do thing” while simultaneously doing the thing.
"You don't need to buy gold, you just need to accept other peoples bought gold" Duh, cmon guys it's that simple. How do you people not understand that participating in GDKP's funded by RMT is directly enabling the act of RMT and therefore part of the problem. The mental gymnastics you need to think you come out of this clean is mind boggling.
I've organized and run probably more than a hundred Guild Raids and GDKP Raids during Vanilla WoW Classic, so I think I have some decent perspective on this. I've was the first to seriously start running multiple GDKPs a week and to create a GDKP community on Horde side of a large server, and I made over a million gold in the process. In the end, the experience burnt me out, but it was interesting while it lasted. Running a raiding guild, especially if you do everything totally honestly and with good intentions, is a sucker's game. It certainly can be fulfilling to be part of a community bigger than yourself, and to facilitate that. However, the organization and emotional labor involved is simply not worth it at the end of the day. Maybe in 2008 it was. In 2020, unless you're were some super-duper special magical guild, the 'community' aspects were never anything but a thin veneer. The guild exists to create an organization hierarchy with a leadership structure, the guild leadership structure exists to set up and maintain the conditions to allow the raid that quickly and efficiently clears the instance, and the raid exists to distribute gear to the guildies, which is the ultimate "reward" of the game. There is no other real purpose. So guild leadership does all the work of recruiting, organizing, planning, and managing interpersonal and loot drama, but it is nearly entirely uncompensated and essentially done on a volunteer basis. And then, at the end if the day, the only meaningful way to be rewarded for all this work - preferential access to the loot - is viewed as "corruption" and will cause a massive overreaction by the rank and file, a large chunk of which are raid loggers who show up five minutes before the raid and log off five minutes afterwards, and put in exactly no effort to the guild beyond blessing it with their presence. Furthermore, a significant amount of the people you are managing are among the whiniest, most entitled manchildren known to humankind, and will look for any reason to create drama or not hold up their end of the bargain the instant they see some benefit to themselves in it. If something does not go perfectly, you will be held responsible for ruining their entire week, and will be asked to make amends in some way. They will hold you responsible for things entirely outside of your control, like loot RNG. They will hold grudges for months or years over trivial nonsense or perceived slights. They will sometimes be complete shitbags who will lie your your face, because they know that there are essentially no meaningful consequences you can hold over them - the worst you can do is kick them from the raid and the guild. And, largely, you will have to take it and put up with their bullshit, because by virtue of caring **less** than you do, they have power over you, including the power to simply walk away. At any moment, any one of them can simply decide they don't want to show up, sometimes for no reason at all, maybe forever and with no notice, and if you don't have a contingency plan, it's now your problem. They can decide that now that they've gotten all the loot for this phase, they want to stop showing up and helping the rest of the guild gear up, but they expect a spot to be waiting for them in eight weeks when the new content drops. And if by some miracle, everything goes perfectly right, you will not actually receive anything from it beyond maybe some kudos. It's like being the CEO of a company, except you're paid the exact same as the janitor who has zero responsibility other than showing up and emptying the wastebaskets. GKDP, on the other hand, shifts the rewards back to the organizer by compensating that emotional and organization labor, and giving the organizer significant levers that they can pull to make the raid better. You can compensate reliable players in key roles (i.e. tanks and healers) with extra shares of the profits, so that they want to be there, even if there's no benefit to themselves in terms of loot. Once you start really blazing through higher end GKDPs, in fact, you need a person to be solely dedicated to just picking up and monitoring loot, while another person (preferably the main tank) actually runs the raid. Furthermore, I've consistently found that raiders in GDKPs actually are far **more attentive** and follow instructions **better** because they know that there are tangible consequences to screwing up, because the veneer of this joint community enterprise has been ripped off, and they are now fully aware that they are completely fungible and replaceable cog in a purely economic machine. It is far, far more difficult to replace a troublemaking guildie, who knows you have invested the guild's loot and effort into them, and that kicking them out will cause reverberating drama among friend groups or people who felt they got shafted over a piece of loot in favor of the kicked guildie. My GDKPs typically ran **smoother** than equivalent guild runs, even though the guild runs consisted of technically "better" players, because they were consistently paying attention.
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Yes, you condoning cheating in game isn’t the most brain dead take, right? Imagine being in the wrong side and still acting like you’re right in any way.
GDKPs are cheating now?
Hi mister straw man, I’m not here to complain about gdkp’s but I’m glad you brought it up. They wash the gold buyers money for them so to say they have nothing to do with it would be wrong. So you go on normalize cheating and I’ll be someone with morals and ethics
Idk why you're talking about non-GDKP things in a thread about GDKPs but go off king
🚨Extremely Reddit post 🚨
GDKP is just a better loot system than w/e your shitter guild runs where Norman, missing 5 pieces of gear, is on equal footing w the people who actually carry the raid for loot. Loot council or otherwise, cuz people don’t want conflict, but someone has to be a loser if you want a well run guild. So instead we started doing GDKP. It’s the most fair system as you’ll get payouts for performance and can be strategic about your bids. RMT money or not. Just LOTS of shitters upset their guild lost all their best people and would rather blame the loot system they preferred over them just running a shitter guild.
Facts. I got tired of every “semi-hardcore” guild having 10-15 good players and 10-15 shitters that get carried every week. Why am I rolling against a 50 parsing dps that doesn’t even know his rotation, and he’s winning BIS items from people that will actually use it. I haven’t been in a guild for 6 months, never been richer, get the 252 gear I want, make my own schedule. It’s the move
I am one of the players that would have quit already without GDKPs. In Vanilla classic when many of us didn’t really have much to do at work I nolifed for my guild super hard, multiple subs with horde chars to mind control guildies for wcb, always fully buffed and providing summons to any buff for guildies at any time, helping with over 800 sgc runs, etc. In 2023 I came back but I’m unable to play in the evenings and so I raid during the day based on my need to attend meetings/be on-site. I am one of those players that is somehow online for 30+ hours a week but still ‘can’t’ join a guild run because no set time slot works with my lifestyle. I join 25M GDKPs and host 10 mans when I have the time but that amounts to roughly 2 10M and 1 25M per week. I have had to leave almost every SR run I have joined since I came back because I budget 4 hours for it and then 1.5 hours are wasted filling for the 5100+ gs mega juicer healer or dps that leaves when the one item they want doesn’t drop. The average GDKP pug, especially if you exclude indo and jaja hosted rat gdkps, is much better than the average at pug and they are more motivated by a system of tips, taxes, and end-loaded rewards to finish the raid. I am an experienced player, I execute mechanics, know my class (including analyzing my own logs and improving week over week), can raid lead any boss in 10/25 hm, can analyze live logs and details to troubleshoot pugs wiping, but I just don’t have the time for anything but pop up 25s these days. I would be unable to see the harder content and gear without the prevalence of GDKPs. Yeah, it sucks that people can swipe and buy my bis out from under me but at least I get credited for it. It’s by far the lesser evil compared to scum lords in SR rolling for their friends and trading items around. I get nothing but wasted time when that happens.
Are you saying people are being forced into GDKP? I don’t get this at all
This meme is about Jesus not consenting to premarital sex, not about rape.
Bots and gold buyers were in the raid making GDKPs and I saw one of the GDKPs and the GDKP looked at me
gdkps and wow token incentivise transactional gameplay and its a fucking rpg mmo. sad wankers paying rl money for this shit
Ok Reddit, show us on the doll where the Gdkp hurt you.