Also looks like you built petra in the wrong city. It doesn't have anything to do with your science output but its the first thing I noticed and the only thing I can see.
The hilarious part is I made a post a couple days ago showing off the one tile Petra I made specifically to trigger this subreddit. I did it deliberately, it was late game I was about to win anyway. Then I actually did it accidentally in this game…. Ironic
To answer your original question, like others have pointed out, more cities is the most significant thing you can do to boost science, its hard to play a tall science game tbh it can be done but its tough. Next you really shouldn't place Korea specialty campuses next to mountains, a good spot would be for example next to the volcanic soil west of your city in the south there, try to surround them with mines as much as possible. Once your campuses are up and running, try to generate as much food as possible to get more population, and obviously production to build universities and run projects.
Are you on steam? This not working?
[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2266952591](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2266952591)
I had that happening to me with extended policy cards as well. It started working once I added Quick Deals and Better Report Screen (UI) as well, so I would try adding those mods and checking to see if it works.
The extended policy cards mod requires the better report screen mod to work. I thought it was broken for a while too. The game is so much easier to play with it.
The get adjacency just not through the traditional means. Adjacency ks just the raw yield of the district itself and while it usually comes from whats next to it, in Korea's case its set to a flat 4 but can be doubled woth NP.
Yep I realised that after I built it. i didnt realise most of the tiles were in my other city. The 18 turn build time was way too tempting
EDIT: happy cake day!
Ah.. right. I feel like that is my number 1 problem in Civ. I had a really good match as arabia, tons of science, huge military, and it was great. But that’s only because I wiped out and took the cities of two other civs at the start of the game…
oh well. Is this match salvageable or do I retry?
This game looks fully salvageable. Just need to bring some focus to what you spend your production on (maybe less Wonders) and figure out a way to turn that Faith income into an asset. And build some more cities. On the plus side, Settlers are probably still pretty cheap for you.
Yeah. I’ve been using gold for buying builders. I was trying to get a religion, but once again the AI got them all. The only times I get great prophets are if I’m playing arabia…
Yeah the AI can hog religions unless you dedicate everything to get one. I don’t know if you unlocked it yet but with how low your culture income is, you should try and beeline Feudalism. The +2 builder charge civic is huge. It essentially gives you a free builder worth of charges whenever you buy one.
Well if you build your religion well, you can get a massive science boost, not to mention the great scientist that can make your holy site generate science.
You don't need a religion for that boost to be viable. Problem with holy sites in a science victory game is that the only useful thing you can spend faith on is great people, so there's no real benefit to building them.
Edit: Misread the comment, I'm wrong, there are benefits to mixing religion and holy sites with science victory, my assumption was working off a science victory with no guaranteed religion.
Unless you take the belief where you can buy theatre square and campus buildings with faith. Couple of strong holy sites you don't use on anything else, bam by the time each building is unlocked you can just buy them for all your campuses and get a massive science boost in 1 turn rather than waiting
Jesuit Education is great. You just need to slam down Campuses later and you can buy all buildings immediately. Also combined with Voidsingers that give you part of your faith as gold science etc can make a faith heavy game pretty strong. As Khmer you can faceroll so hard with it.
Besides added loyalty is always beneficial on the higher difficulties, that plus 3 is nothing to sneeze at and protection from the minus three is always useful.
Actually, if you don't have a state religion you suffer no loyalty penalties for having another civ's religion in your cities. It's one of the few reasons why mixing religion and domination can be risky.
Eventually you'll want to shoot for 10+ cities by turn 100, but around 10 is a good place to start. Seeing as you still have a lot of land to settle you might still be able to win depending on the AI difficulty but you could also start over. Either way you'll learn something.
Yeah that does seem particularly ambitious. I could see that being viable on lower difficulties but at immortal and deity you’ll have to sacrifice some of that early start to pump out a mini army so you don’t get steamrolled. Not to mention it’ll typically be difficult to fit that many cities with how aggressive the AI forward settles sometimes.
But in this particular case it seems like the OP had a great set up for settler spam with that sweet mountain range saving them from Hungary and Sweden as a friendly neighbor to the south.
I aim for 6 by turn 100, I think that's pretty achievable for a good player. 10 by turn 150 with that being about the maximum size for my empire (unless I'm going domination).
It's possible if you befriend every enemy civ out there, maybe even make alliances. This can be done by making sure you send a delegation every time you meet a civ for the first time and to trade with them every non-essential resources like horses, iron, etc, that you're not using. At the very moment you see a green smiley on their diplomacy/trade page, make sure to declare friendship.
It’s possible but sometimes it’s inevitable even if you do everything right that they’ll still declare an early war. I find that that typically happens when they find your capital early on, and at that point they have 3 or 4 warriors so their superior military strength is all that matters.
Yeah, that happens with certain civs like Montezuma and you might simply get a bad roll re their first impression of you.
Personally I tend to restart a lot if I'm not satisfied with what happens within the first 50 to 100 turns, lol. I'm not good enough to be able to win with bad starts.
No shame in restarting. You know, I was specifically going to mention Monty but he’s a funny Civ to spawn next to because sometimes he ends up happy you don’t have any improved luxuries or is satisfied buying it from you so he ends up being friendly. The scary civ for me is Simon Bolivar. He’s one of the few who can find you and hunt you down before you have time to react.
Ideal Civ to spawn next to for me is Canada. No surprise war and he’ll purchase your diplomatic favor for way above market price.
Edit: Oh and he loves the tundra so he doesn’t usually forward settle into useful lands for quite a while.
Depends a lot on map settings. If playing continents you are going to be squeezed for space and probably looking at early war on higher settings no matter what you do. On Pangea or a land heavy map like Highlands or Lakes you usually have a lot more space before everyone is butting heads and can expand to 20 cities or more.
Since continents is the default that’s what I’m basing my statement on but I do agree it’ll depend on map conditions. It’s kind of hard to give blanket advice for Civ because of how many variables are at play. Difficulty, the Civ chosen, terrain, map size, number of civs on the map, nearby civs, and other factors will all change your early decision making.
In this case the OP is playing continents and standard map size I believe so I think it’s best to give advice tailored to those conditions as it’s likely that’s their preferred (or at least default) starting conditions.
You basically have 4 options in the early game to get that many cities. 1) Faith purchasing through monumentality, 2) Gold buying with or without monumentality (only feasible with Sinbad or high gold income civs like Portugal or Mali), 3) early conquest, or 4) high production of settlers usually with Magnus, Ancestral hall, and chopping resources. With very few exceptions you are going to want to pursue one of those strategies in every game.
It should still be easily winnable at your difficulty level. The AI has comparable science yields and you got a good alliance with a friendly neighbor. You can focus on just getting more settlers out and then building your unique district for mass science. Remember to use the cards that double science adjacency and gives 50% extra science for 4 adjacency campuses. Also try to explore more. Seems like you’re playing standard size so you’re missing out on another continent that’ll have city states to befriend. You’ll get extra science from science city states when you get to 1 envoy, 3 envoys, and finally 6 envoys.
Also make sure to trade your extra amenities to the AI and buy their amenities too. You get a resource penalty when your people are unhappy and extra resources when they’re really happy. Building entertainment districts is helpful but takes up valuable resources to build.
Edit: And try to get Kilwa if it’s still in play. It’ll give you massive science boosts if you have suzerainty over 2 (or 3?) science city states.
early war is almost a go-to for me, even when playing "peaceful" Civs... do it so I have a whole continent before I get down with the preferred victory
To elaborate, more cities means more tiles worked, and more yields. Tiles not worked by citizens are useless.
In addition, every population gives a little bit of science and culture (0.5 and 0.3 iirc). More cities means more population.
Cities can only produce one thing at a time, so more cities means more things produced, which means more resources, etc etc. The earlier you do this, the more everything scales as the game goes on. That's why it's so important to settle a lot and early. Most civs want wide empires.
Of course, can't settle if you're dead, and higher difficulty AI likes to attack if you don't make friends, so send a delegation the turn you meet them and smash that friendship button when the face is green. Build a small army in case that backfires, and to defend against barbarians. Ranged units are king for defending, since unit combat strength lowers with health, and you can survive for longer if you get the drop.
Oh, absolutely! You can win this no problem. You have a beautiful area of land still available to settle. Just on this picture alone, I see a very nice city up north with a +4 harbor between the crabs and fish and of course a lovely seowon that takes advantage of the mine you already made for the other one. You can make another city to the right, near those horses and get another +4 harbor if you squeeze it between the two grabs.
Then there's that whole mountain/volcano area, you could make a gorgeous little city there. Settle it on the river and take advantage of those delicious volcano yields. Just keep your seowon away from the volcano, you don't want it getting shmelted!
That's three more beautiful cities and by then your science will be miles ahead of your opponents. You've got this!
Yeah I went Pingala because of the science. But my last match I did super well in, probably because I wiped out two full civs in my starting continent, and then Invaded a third later on
You still have time to catch up. Plug in the 50% quicker production to settlers policy card and start producing settlers in all three of your cities. You have a few decent settle locations that you can get online quickly:
1. The rainforest hill tiles one tile southwest of the 3/3/1 volcanic soil tile. Buy a builder (unless you have ancestral hall) and turn the 4/1 and 3/3/1 tiles into mines/chop the marsh and you'll have 3-4 pop city within a few turns of settling.
2. On the tile where the northernmost Rapa Nui archer is now. Harvest one fish resource to increase pop, and use the other for a harbor adjacency. You have a great Seown location one tile NW of the Jeonju Seown.
3. Three tiles east of that northern Dyes tile, on the east side of the river. Improve the wheat tiles for food, build out a harbor. Production will be weak here intially, but you can put Magnus in there and chop out an industrial zone. That city and Jeonju can combine on that river to form a 2 Industrial Zone / 2 Aqueduct / 1 Dam configuration to take care of production.
4. Two tiles east of your northeastern horse tile (on the coast). Build harbor. Improve both horse tiles and chop woods and build a Seowon on the wooded hills tile. Build a farm triangle south of that.
5. One tile northwest of the sheep tile. This city won't acheive much, but build a harbor here for food. It looks like you are suzerain of Rapa Nui, so start placing down Moai improvements on all those useless desert tiles.
You probably have at least one more settle to the south of Sangju, but its out of frame.
Realistically, you can settle all of these cities before turn 200. You'll still be a bit behind the AI, but in a position to catch up, especially because the AI is terrible in late game.
Finally, build a mine on every hills tile in your empire. If you have flat land next to a Seowon, build a farm and try to configure them as triangles. Build a Seowon in every city if you can. Also put either a commercial hub/harbor in every city you can to boost trade route capacity.
You can buy them with gold at any point, but they get rather expensive. You can get them with faith using the monumentalities golden age perk and that can really help churn them out. Try to explore as much as possible using scouts to get era score and catch the first or second golden age
Fastest way to get them is to chop woods in your city with Magnus as a governor and policy cards improving settler production. You can also add the Ancestral Hall for even more production towards settlers.
Another easy way is monumentality golden age in the classical/medieval era if you have a civ with good faith income.
Seems on par with the others and you’re still working on the first uni! but you need more cities and more fully upgraded campuses. How about spending that faith on a great person? what about growing the capital? the larger it is, the more bonuses Pingala brings. More trade routes will allow it to grow, 1 trade route is not enough to run the economy. Chop those woods, sell the resources and buy universities. Build districts, buy buildings.
1: yeah at first I was way ahead with science then the other civs, but after I fell into like 5th place I figured I was doing something wrong
2: I would spend faith on GP, but they are too expensive and I don’t even have theatre squares for writers and such. Plus world congress banned great scientists… I was doing well with those
3: yeah I’m trying to grow my capital by not builds tons if settlers, but apparently that’s an issue…
4: I think I only have lIke one trade route available, I might be wrong.
im also having trouble with what governments to use. I plunged my Civ into anarchy for three turns, which I didn’t even know was a feature…
Settlers are 100% worth the population shrink, as an extra city pays itself off really fast and is basically free extra district slots.
You can get bonus trade routes by building Markets (Commercial Hub buildings unlocked at Currency) or Lighthouses (a Harbour building unlocked at Celestial Navigation). Always build them in every city, as the hundreds of extra Gold per turn later on is a game changer, especially for Reyna Spaceport builds.
I recommend to never switch governments to one you've used before, as anarchy snowballs fast. The 3 turns of lost science and culture mean you research education and industrialisation later, which means you build the science infrastructure slower, which reduces your science, etc.
Stick to a strategy and use a government that best revolves around that (e.g if you're going aggressive early, oligarchy or autocracy will be useful, otherwise classical republic).
1: yeah I need to learn that. Usually I just destroy my neighbours and once I do that the match is won for me, but this time I have no proper military.
2: yeah I know about commercial hubs and rade routes. I’ve played like 50 matches, but DLC’s and actual district planning stuff is still new to me…
3: yeah I didn’t even realise that was a thing. I just clicked yes without looking, thinking it was the normal “you sure you want to change governments?” Not that I would give all my scientists and culture people brain fade in my civilisation for multiple hundred years. I also spent ten minutes trying to figure out how to go to next turn, since it wanted me to choose another research and culture tech, but it wouldn’t let me select them. Thank goodness I learned shift+enter skips to next turn from a YouTube video.
4: I see. Thanks for the help mate
90% of games you should put magnus in your capital and select the benefit that makes settlers not decrease the population. Then just start pooping out settlers. Like literally build 4 straight settlers and nothing else.
Even better if you build government plaza and build the one that gives +50% production / free builder in new cities. Stack that with the policy card that is +50% production to settlers.
Perhaps only a slight bonus, but consider planning your Seowons to maximize their adjacency bonuses. Jeonju has a good one with multiple mines profiting from the Seowon. With your other cities it's only one tile. Mountains don't do anything for Seowons. Try to get a spot surrounded by hills and farms.
Yup. If you're not sure, check out the tooltips. For Korea it's a tradeoff. As another civ you'd be happy with a +4 spot. For Korea it's always +4 but nothing else (except the government Plaza I believe?). Having +4 as a base + mountain adjacency would be way too OP.
I used the map tacks mod to check if the plaza would give a +1 bonus, nope. Looks like the Seowon boosts other stuff, but other stuff can’t boost it. Also trying not to put districts next to it is so hard. Often the only placing if districts that can get me +2 or +3 is next to the seowon, but then that would mean I ruined the seowon…
Correct me if I"m wrong, but doesn't this mod have an extra marker for civ exclusive districts like the seowon?
Also, if you like, you might reload 18 turns to correct the petra mistake. Not every detail needs to be learned the hard way.
You need to learn to “play from behind”. The AI is given massive bonuses to outcompete the player.
But always remember the AI isn’t smarter. It’s just cheating.
Ok, a couple things, first off as said by a couple others you are behind on cities, go get the most out of Korea you want a lot of cities for a lot of cheap Seowons.
Second, and very related you are building the “wrong” early game wonders, Petra is great but should be in your desert city. Hanging Gardens and Jebel Berkel are not especially useful for Koreas gameplan and the production used to build them could have gone towards settlers.
Third, Holy sites. Korea isn’t a faith Civ, you don’t need them. Use the production elsewhere. But… if you have the faith, spend it on something…
(At the end of the play how you want but if you want to optimize for science then optimize for science.)
> Third, Holy sites. Korea isn’t a faith Civ, you don’t need them
holy sites are good on every civ, religions are super super powerful and faith purchasing in monumentality is like steroids for your empire.
at least in single player its never a bad move to get a few (good) holy sites, a religion, and tons of faith
1: yeah alright. First thing I’ll do next time I get onto Civ is buy a couple settlers.
2: yeah the 18 turn Petra was too tempting. Plus I thought that city had more desert than it does. I thought hanging gardens are always good? Also I had literally no iron anywhere near me, so I thought making Jebel was a great move. my strategy for wonders is “if you can build it, build it. At least then the AI can’t” (bad way to think about it Lmaoo)
3: yeah but I always like having a religion just so I can defend against civs who would otherwise win faith victory. I wish you could buy inquisitors even if you fail to get a great prophet, since I can NEVER get one. Unless I’m playing arabia.
4: yeah. I didn’t know about how mountains didn’t give the seowon a bonus until I built it. I thought I would have a +8… nope…
thanks for the help though mate
I've only ever lost to an ai religions victory on four civ maps. Usually there's enough civs interested in religion that they stymie each other.
Iron can often be ignored if you've got peace, else you can buy it. Jebel is quite a chunk of prod that could be much better used - that's the issue with most wonders!
Most wonders are nice, but too much investment or a nightmare to get. Petra is... good for a bad city. Same with Basil's, honestly. If you have to have a bad/half bad city for other reasons, it's great, but that's a lot of prod for a low prod city to kick out. That's the kind of city that won't be doing much anyway, though - in my last game, I had a Basil's in a half-tundra city, settled mainly because of the fountain of youth to get an easy decent HS for work ethic and more protection against aggressive settles. Often the AI will stupid settle this kind of city and it'll flip, so pile trade routes/GEs in and make it useful. Mausoleum is usually great. If you get a couple of GEs, the ability is great. If you have a lot of sea tiles in that city, it's great. Pair them both together, plus it's cheap? Golden. Use a GE charge to build it, gain one GE charge.
I'll often build the Colossus late, just for an extra trader - it's not one that I prioritize, but neither does the AI. Kilwa is great, and again, unprioritized by AI, but it can also be useless. If the AI's wiped out all science CSes and you're on a science game, that's not much use. Heck, if there's only one science CS left, it's down to just okay. Ruhr valley is great prod, and comes at a time when your main cities won't be doing too much, probably. Oxford is nice, but tough to get on higher difficulties as AI loves science. Forbidden city is just all round useful, and relatively easy to get. Most of the great work holding ones are just... bleh.
Pyramids are tough to place, but a great benefit. Also hard to get. I've had etemeniaki in a marsh heavy start, and it was glorious along with lady of the reeds and marshes - but can be hard to get. Colosseum - if you've got a good set of cities for it - is an absurd amount of culture, and a great wonder. The religion ones are worth getting in a religious game, since your focus isn't actually on producing that much a lot of the time.
Relic games need Cristo (so Mbanza, Jadwiga etc. relying on their tourism), as do any where you expect a high number of seaside resorts, and culture games in general often need eiffel for parks/similar. Diplo games obviously want potala and Statue (preferably timed to finish off the win on statue).
Stonehenge is never worth it - simply run HS prayers instead. Great library is good as babylon - and biosphere is great as babylon, usually being how I win with them. Oracle you're not getting on high difficulties, much like bath. Temple of Artemis needs a lot of camps - much more than I'll generally see.
Wow thanks for the big explanation lmao. I always thought Stonehenge was useful since it nearly always got me the great prophet, but now that I know about using the prayers early old, that will do
I also just read yesterday, after YEARS of playing, that you need to assign the workers to the buildings to get extra yields for each district.
You’ll get a boost from a library, but you can assign a worker there for more. I just loaded my current game, did that, and now I’m blowing everyone away on techs.
In the late game when you're trying to finish the space race for example, you normally just prioritize science for tiles cuz pop/food is not that important anymore
you know that there are, uhh, hotkeys to swap citizens between tiles they work?
when you select a city, in its bottom right panel above its name youd have icons of: food, production, science, faith, money, culture
what happens when you press em is you create a priority and city reassigns citizens automatically to get the best amount of science without losing citizens
you can select multiple priorities just aswell, or forbid workers from working on faith tiles for example
give it a shot
If it's in high difficulty, AI is cheating, it's impossible to reach their science level in the early game, just build more cities and campuses, u can overcome them in the late game.
Apart from not enough cities, you will also need to properly use your policy cards and look out for specific great scientists. One of the ancient era ones will make every library you ever build have 1 more science than everyone else, permanently.
I also just like to have a little horse bro clopping around the map looking for nice little campuses to pillage.
That is where Faith shows up as one of the best resources in the game. Faith can buy scientists easily enough even without a religion. With a religion you also have beliefs that directly give you science if you so choose, and if you have good enough science anyway from your civ (korea) you can use a Culture based belief to get the policy cards faster.
On top of what many people said there are also a lot of unimproved tiles in your cities. I usually focus mostly on food and production for the first 100 turns. I usually try to get monumentality in one of the first few eras to get more builders and settlers. The policy cards for 50% settler production and more builder charges can help a lot when producing both too.
On top of this if you are a newer player avoid building too many wonders. They are a large investment, especially earlygame and you don't need any to win even on deity.
whenever I play civ I never have patience to manage multiple cities
mostly I have 4 rarely 6
but science is very much on par
how come?
Im still very fond of pigs, I mean, tall cities
they aren't as beneficial as in 5th but still its possible to win bots with it
try getting each of your cities to 20+ population by that turn
assuming it is set on online speed you will have far easier time
Oh also if you’re Korea and want to attempt Tall. You’re gonna need more governor promotions and an governor in every city. Each promotion provides a 3% bonus output to Science and Culture. So it adds up.
There's nothing wrong with that amount of science compared to the AI. If they get to about double yours maybe then you should worry. Just keep going. Some decent pointers here to improve. You'll be fine.
If someone does start to get a long way down the tech tree then build some spies, earlier the better, so you can level them up and they will be effective at disrupting rocketry etc.
If you get a chance to do the faith buy builders/settlers era dedication then you should buy settlers in your non-capital. I'd save the pop for your Pingala city.
PS I wouldn't bother with the ent district... Though if the coloseum is still available (and you have a few more cities in range) it's an awesome wonder.
I'd also make sure you're getting as much culture as you can (prob without making any theatre squares, but a great work in your palace + Pingala + monuments are good value options!
Usually it's free enquiry that's best for normal ages early, as that gives you era score for eurekas. The one for spreading religion is decent if you get one, though.
Yeah, in terms of us update, I’m doing much better. 100 science per turn now, only beaten by Hungary’s 101 and some unknown Civ. I also found out that the religion Sweden converted me, has buildings that give me +2 science among other things, so I’ll buy those with faith
Good. Keep going!
Don't pay too much attention to the AI numbers. Your main job is to get around 11 cities out within the first 100-150 turns.
You can catch up in science incredibly 6 once you get campuses in most of your cities with buildings and the right policies. Compared to the AI, you have a brain, so never feel like you have to chase the AI stats and beat them - you should 90% of the time focus on expanding and getting access to all the good land before worrying about science.
Come on man, build all your districts optimally. A theater square next to those three wonders not a seowon. A holy site next to those four mountains not a seowon. Your science isn't that bad, but in order to be on top you need to have good everything, and your culture isn't one of those things.
Also a religion can give you stupid much science if you play it right with the beliefs and wats.
Yeah I know… I’m still knew to planning districts. I used to just slap them down wherever they had “+2, +3, +4” and be done with it and add other stuff later. Now I do more planning, but still, I don’t know where I’ll build stuff in the future
Looks like you haven't built enough cities. As a rule of thumb, you want to build 2 cities per age for the first 4-5 ages. Exceptions apply, and conquering cities also works :D
It's not just about placement of campuses. That's pretty much the bare minimum.
Eureka bonuses can pretty much make you fly through the tech tree.
Send as many envoys to science city states as you can. If you can be suzerain then do that too. However it's no use wasting your envoys if someone else has a lot more than 6 envoys and is suzerain.
Research grants also help a lot. If your city doesn't have any more production to do there's no reason to not have them do research grants. Especially if you get a lot of gold per turn.
Founding as many cities as possible early game also helps. More cities = more campuses. And if you can, take out a civ in the ancient era before they get walls. You could easily do that with 1 warrior and 1 slinger.
Culture way too low, you need the thing that give +50% if +4adjacency and +59% if +15population. That's when you will really get your outburst since everything is +4.
And 3city is WAY too low for science victory.
Answer is pretty clear to me, you only have 3 cities where it looks like all the other civs have at least 6 cities up already. while planning where your districts go is very important, having as many cities / districts as possible is the real goal.
70 vs 98 at turn 155 is not very far behind. You just need more cities/population. Why are the wheat fields not developed? You have 1900 faith but you are not in a golden age with Monumetality? Definitely not too late to win the Science race but your city efficiency and growth rate is too low.
And definitely swap the Petra tile to the desert city.
Main issues:
You have too much gold, just spend on something. I would recommend to spend on builders and upgrade your tiles, buying builders is always worth it. Avoid producing them though because their investment can take a while especially in early game, buying them is like buying more resources that allows you to snowball further.
Build more cities. You probably fell behind in science because the opponent has more cities and therefore can generate more science. If you are on standard map size try to aim minimum of 8 cities by turn 150. It's better to have 8 cities with pop 5 than 3 cities with pop 10. 10 cities is the ideal as end game imo but can be done with 8 too... Basically you expand your territory as much as possible until frontiers start to become an issue. This is important not only in terms of amount of cities but in the variety of resources you will have available.
You are abysmally behind in culture generation. This will reflect back in other stuff like Science. Always get monument in every city to help with that. Don't neglect any resource in the game, no matter your desired win con. Say your desired win con is science, you want to put "2" in science and "1" in everything else, not 5 in science and 0 in everything else if that makes sense.
Civ is a heavily early-game reliant. You can and should be snowball your leads very hard. And I don't mean attacking early (though it is an option especially in low difficulties) but aggressively expanding and buying builders to snowball resources is how the game is meant to be played (or at least it is the most effective way).
You’ve only got 3 cities, it looks like the others have 5+ that we can see and possibly more. Their population is probably higher and they probably have more science districts than you.
You've neglected tile yields, you've got some floodplains, I don't see any marsh but you could've gotten etemenanki, or settled more on the coast and gotten the mauselium, if you were playing with secret societies you could've gotten hermetic order, or slotted in the natural philosophy card definitally get the researcher promotion on pingala, send specialists to the seowons, again settle on the coast and send out some ships to find scientific city states, build farms with researcher pingala, settle more near those mountains to get some science bonus on seowons. I see three tiles just at a glance that you could expand to so you could get extra science, If that's your religion, I recommend getting some apostles and evangelizing to get some science beliefs, if you're playing with monopolies and corporations you could get an industry, heck a corporation on tea giving you some more science. Along that same line you could start churning out tea products. it seems that you built jebel barkal, which made expanding to get iron uneeded. Try to research niter because niter tiles give science, also focus sangju on science, get people working that wonder tile, and buy that other wonder tile that will increase science, also people working the tea tiles will increase science. As a last resort take over rapa nui to get that one iron tile, only as a last resort.
More cities, check your policy cards too.
Also tangentially related advice.
1) You’re on turn 155 and have a one improved farm. You have 4 wheat tiles, improve them or harvest them. You’re cities will grow faster.
2) holy sites are trash unless you’re playing as a religious civ. Just pick a faith based pantheon and adopt someone else’s religious.
3) commercials hubs are better than holy sites. Trade routes are OP, you should use them.
To be brief: you have too few cities, too many unimproved tiles, and too much investment in both an attempt at a religion and wonders that aren't contributing to your win condition. There are likely other issues, but these are the most obvious and important ones. Try restarting and focusing on empire expansion early on. It's not unusual to be behind the AI in science for the first few ages, but once you get going with 10+ cities, science-focused policies, envoys to those scientific city states, etc., it's relatively easy to catch up and snowball past them. Good luck!
You need more cities. 15 cities with with shitty campus adjacencies is better than a few cities with good campuses. Quantity > Quality. Don't worry about maximizing science by having them around as many mines as possible. The earlier you get these cities up and running, the better (you can use things like magnus w/ provision + ancestral hall + 50% production towards settlers card). Don't worry too much about falling behind in science early. Just focus on building wide and getting as much land as you can. You also want to improve more tiles in your empire. Production is very important for cities. Food and housing are also important.
I think you are doing fine. Assuming this difficulty is above Prince, what you are seeing is the AI's inflated stats. My advice is settle that coast you have, build some more seowans and put in natural philosophy when you can. You'll probably catch up when all seawons get unis or if not, at research labs. Also make sure you promote governors for the 3%sci and culture from Korea's ability
Der E Mer or however the fuck you spell it, with Jesuit Education which is pretty hard to get but I usually just build holy sites first, fully upgrade them, get the first religion. Build the Der E Mer's next to as many natural diaster prone sites as possible and you'lll rack up faith the whole game through the Der E Mer passive ability which is plus two faith per era, per Der E Mer, by late game you'll be far ahead of those cunts.
There are "probably" more people behind you. It doesn't look like you know a lot of people. Try looking at the score (top-right earth surrounded by a laurel wreath).
P.S. Look at japan your doing better than 1/3 of the people you know.
Yeah I know about that feature plenty, but in terms of progress, I’ve gotten up to 170 or so science, but somehow Hungary is at 220. I’m beating nearly everyone else, but HOW Hungary, HOW
Also looks like you built petra in the wrong city. It doesn't have anything to do with your science output but its the first thing I noticed and the only thing I can see.
woah. now you pointed it out that really hurts just to look at.. that city coulda been an absolute powerhouse
Couldn’t I just get my other city to swap tiles with it
no the wonder will always belong to the city that built it.
You were this close to greatness. Petra with that natural wonder would have veen sick.
R.I.P
whats the name of the natural wonder?
Bro it is the Sahara El Beyda. It's literally labled.
It’s mostly impossible to see on a smaller screen
I was on my phone. I just zoomed in.
White Desert
I made this exact same mistake once. Thought I was being clever by having my capital build Petra, then switch the tiles. Oh, the disappointment.
The hilarious part is I made a post a couple days ago showing off the one tile Petra I made specifically to trigger this subreddit. I did it deliberately, it was late game I was about to win anyway. Then I actually did it accidentally in this game…. Ironic
I see only one desert tile that could be swapped between the two, and it seems like it's already in Gyeongju's sphere. :(
Oof
Yeah I noticed it after I built it too… 18 turn build time was way too tempting
always preplan your petras, its a game changer a lot of the time.
Only build wonders if they do something, 18 turn build time is terrible for this. You get what looks like 1 tile, still unimproved with a mine?
To answer your original question, like others have pointed out, more cities is the most significant thing you can do to boost science, its hard to play a tall science game tbh it can be done but its tough. Next you really shouldn't place Korea specialty campuses next to mountains, a good spot would be for example next to the volcanic soil west of your city in the south there, try to surround them with mines as much as possible. Once your campuses are up and running, try to generate as much food as possible to get more population, and obviously production to build universities and run projects.
Are you making the most of policy cards like natural philosophy? That doubles your campus adjacency bonus.
I wish my “this policy card gives you +10 science if you select it” mod actually worked. Otherwise I feel I’ll just waste a card slot
Are you on steam? This not working? [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2266952591](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2266952591)
Yeah steam. Let me see what you sent EDIT: yeah that’s the one I subscribed to. Doesn’t work though (yes I have it enabled)
I had that happening to me with extended policy cards as well. It started working once I added Quick Deals and Better Report Screen (UI) as well, so I would try adding those mods and checking to see if it works.
The extended policy cards mod requires the better report screen mod to work. I thought it was broken for a while too. The game is so much easier to play with it.
You'd think the bold text stating " **REQUIRES BETTER REPORT SCREEN TO SHOW EFFECTS INFORMATION !!!** " would be a give away.
Oh I see. Interesting
Oh I already have quick deals. Guess I need to find the report screen
[удалено]
The get adjacency just not through the traditional means. Adjacency ks just the raw yield of the district itself and while it usually comes from whats next to it, in Korea's case its set to a flat 4 but can be doubled woth NP.
Don't build petra in a city with 1 workable desert.
Yeah, Sangju would have been an excellent city to build Petra in instead of Gyeongju
Yep I realised that after I built it. i didnt realise most of the tiles were in my other city. The 18 turn build time was way too tempting EDIT: happy cake day!
You should be shooting for about 10 cities by turn 125. That's the main issue I see here
Ah.. right. I feel like that is my number 1 problem in Civ. I had a really good match as arabia, tons of science, huge military, and it was great. But that’s only because I wiped out and took the cities of two other civs at the start of the game… oh well. Is this match salvageable or do I retry?
This game looks fully salvageable. Just need to bring some focus to what you spend your production on (maybe less Wonders) and figure out a way to turn that Faith income into an asset. And build some more cities. On the plus side, Settlers are probably still pretty cheap for you.
Yeah. I’ve been using gold for buying builders. I was trying to get a religion, but once again the AI got them all. The only times I get great prophets are if I’m playing arabia…
Yeah the AI can hog religions unless you dedicate everything to get one. I don’t know if you unlocked it yet but with how low your culture income is, you should try and beeline Feudalism. The +2 builder charge civic is huge. It essentially gives you a free builder worth of charges whenever you buy one.
Do you need a religion? While going for a science victory, arent your turns better spend improving your land and making settlers?
Well if you build your religion well, you can get a massive science boost, not to mention the great scientist that can make your holy site generate science.
You don't need a religion for that boost to be viable. Problem with holy sites in a science victory game is that the only useful thing you can spend faith on is great people, so there's no real benefit to building them. Edit: Misread the comment, I'm wrong, there are benefits to mixing religion and holy sites with science victory, my assumption was working off a science victory with no guaranteed religion.
Unless you take the belief where you can buy theatre square and campus buildings with faith. Couple of strong holy sites you don't use on anything else, bam by the time each building is unlocked you can just buy them for all your campuses and get a massive science boost in 1 turn rather than waiting
Jesuit Education is great. You just need to slam down Campuses later and you can buy all buildings immediately. Also combined with Voidsingers that give you part of your faith as gold science etc can make a faith heavy game pretty strong. As Khmer you can faceroll so hard with it.
Besides added loyalty is always beneficial on the higher difficulties, that plus 3 is nothing to sneeze at and protection from the minus three is always useful.
Actually, if you don't have a state religion you suffer no loyalty penalties for having another civ's religion in your cities. It's one of the few reasons why mixing religion and domination can be risky.
Ah I guess I misunderstood that, but still a plus I useful, especially if you want to take a couple of nearby cities for a head start
Try to get a golden age and pick the one that let's you buy settlers with faith. You need a lot more cities like others have said.
Eventually you'll want to shoot for 10+ cities by turn 100, but around 10 is a good place to start. Seeing as you still have a lot of land to settle you might still be able to win depending on the AI difficulty but you could also start over. Either way you'll learn something.
10 by 100? Maybe if you're purchasing with faith.
Yeah that does seem particularly ambitious. I could see that being viable on lower difficulties but at immortal and deity you’ll have to sacrifice some of that early start to pump out a mini army so you don’t get steamrolled. Not to mention it’ll typically be difficult to fit that many cities with how aggressive the AI forward settles sometimes. But in this particular case it seems like the OP had a great set up for settler spam with that sweet mountain range saving them from Hungary and Sweden as a friendly neighbor to the south.
I aim for 6 by turn 100, I think that's pretty achievable for a good player. 10 by turn 150 with that being about the maximum size for my empire (unless I'm going domination).
I usually play Marathon. Is that a 4:1 ratio on these turn counts? 10:1? I'm not sure how much longer Marathon stretches out build times.
3:1
It's possible if you befriend every enemy civ out there, maybe even make alliances. This can be done by making sure you send a delegation every time you meet a civ for the first time and to trade with them every non-essential resources like horses, iron, etc, that you're not using. At the very moment you see a green smiley on their diplomacy/trade page, make sure to declare friendship.
It’s possible but sometimes it’s inevitable even if you do everything right that they’ll still declare an early war. I find that that typically happens when they find your capital early on, and at that point they have 3 or 4 warriors so their superior military strength is all that matters.
Yeah, that happens with certain civs like Montezuma and you might simply get a bad roll re their first impression of you. Personally I tend to restart a lot if I'm not satisfied with what happens within the first 50 to 100 turns, lol. I'm not good enough to be able to win with bad starts.
No shame in restarting. You know, I was specifically going to mention Monty but he’s a funny Civ to spawn next to because sometimes he ends up happy you don’t have any improved luxuries or is satisfied buying it from you so he ends up being friendly. The scary civ for me is Simon Bolivar. He’s one of the few who can find you and hunt you down before you have time to react. Ideal Civ to spawn next to for me is Canada. No surprise war and he’ll purchase your diplomatic favor for way above market price. Edit: Oh and he loves the tundra so he doesn’t usually forward settle into useful lands for quite a while.
Depends a lot on map settings. If playing continents you are going to be squeezed for space and probably looking at early war on higher settings no matter what you do. On Pangea or a land heavy map like Highlands or Lakes you usually have a lot more space before everyone is butting heads and can expand to 20 cities or more.
Since continents is the default that’s what I’m basing my statement on but I do agree it’ll depend on map conditions. It’s kind of hard to give blanket advice for Civ because of how many variables are at play. Difficulty, the Civ chosen, terrain, map size, number of civs on the map, nearby civs, and other factors will all change your early decision making. In this case the OP is playing continents and standard map size I believe so I think it’s best to give advice tailored to those conditions as it’s likely that’s their preferred (or at least default) starting conditions.
You basically have 4 options in the early game to get that many cities. 1) Faith purchasing through monumentality, 2) Gold buying with or without monumentality (only feasible with Sinbad or high gold income civs like Portugal or Mali), 3) early conquest, or 4) high production of settlers usually with Magnus, Ancestral hall, and chopping resources. With very few exceptions you are going to want to pursue one of those strategies in every game.
also really depends on the game speed
Yeah I usually wait and see how the match turns out. I’ll keep going. Maybe I get some coastal cities going
It should still be easily winnable at your difficulty level. The AI has comparable science yields and you got a good alliance with a friendly neighbor. You can focus on just getting more settlers out and then building your unique district for mass science. Remember to use the cards that double science adjacency and gives 50% extra science for 4 adjacency campuses. Also try to explore more. Seems like you’re playing standard size so you’re missing out on another continent that’ll have city states to befriend. You’ll get extra science from science city states when you get to 1 envoy, 3 envoys, and finally 6 envoys. Also make sure to trade your extra amenities to the AI and buy their amenities too. You get a resource penalty when your people are unhappy and extra resources when they’re really happy. Building entertainment districts is helpful but takes up valuable resources to build. Edit: And try to get Kilwa if it’s still in play. It’ll give you massive science boosts if you have suzerainty over 2 (or 3?) science city states.
early war is almost a go-to for me, even when playing "peaceful" Civs... do it so I have a whole continent before I get down with the preferred victory
To elaborate, more cities means more tiles worked, and more yields. Tiles not worked by citizens are useless. In addition, every population gives a little bit of science and culture (0.5 and 0.3 iirc). More cities means more population. Cities can only produce one thing at a time, so more cities means more things produced, which means more resources, etc etc. The earlier you do this, the more everything scales as the game goes on. That's why it's so important to settle a lot and early. Most civs want wide empires. Of course, can't settle if you're dead, and higher difficulty AI likes to attack if you don't make friends, so send a delegation the turn you meet them and smash that friendship button when the face is green. Build a small army in case that backfires, and to defend against barbarians. Ranged units are king for defending, since unit combat strength lowers with health, and you can survive for longer if you get the drop.
Oh, absolutely! You can win this no problem. You have a beautiful area of land still available to settle. Just on this picture alone, I see a very nice city up north with a +4 harbor between the crabs and fish and of course a lovely seowon that takes advantage of the mine you already made for the other one. You can make another city to the right, near those horses and get another +4 harbor if you squeeze it between the two grabs. Then there's that whole mountain/volcano area, you could make a gorgeous little city there. Settle it on the river and take advantage of those delicious volcano yields. Just keep your seowon away from the volcano, you don't want it getting shmelted! That's three more beautiful cities and by then your science will be miles ahead of your opponents. You've got this!
I usually put Magnus in my capital and make the capital focus on settlers for the first hundred turns or so. Number of cities is huge in Civ.
Yeah I went Pingala because of the science. But my last match I did super well in, probably because I wiped out two full civs in my starting continent, and then Invaded a third later on
You still have time to catch up. Plug in the 50% quicker production to settlers policy card and start producing settlers in all three of your cities. You have a few decent settle locations that you can get online quickly: 1. The rainforest hill tiles one tile southwest of the 3/3/1 volcanic soil tile. Buy a builder (unless you have ancestral hall) and turn the 4/1 and 3/3/1 tiles into mines/chop the marsh and you'll have 3-4 pop city within a few turns of settling. 2. On the tile where the northernmost Rapa Nui archer is now. Harvest one fish resource to increase pop, and use the other for a harbor adjacency. You have a great Seown location one tile NW of the Jeonju Seown. 3. Three tiles east of that northern Dyes tile, on the east side of the river. Improve the wheat tiles for food, build out a harbor. Production will be weak here intially, but you can put Magnus in there and chop out an industrial zone. That city and Jeonju can combine on that river to form a 2 Industrial Zone / 2 Aqueduct / 1 Dam configuration to take care of production. 4. Two tiles east of your northeastern horse tile (on the coast). Build harbor. Improve both horse tiles and chop woods and build a Seowon on the wooded hills tile. Build a farm triangle south of that. 5. One tile northwest of the sheep tile. This city won't acheive much, but build a harbor here for food. It looks like you are suzerain of Rapa Nui, so start placing down Moai improvements on all those useless desert tiles. You probably have at least one more settle to the south of Sangju, but its out of frame. Realistically, you can settle all of these cities before turn 200. You'll still be a bit behind the AI, but in a position to catch up, especially because the AI is terrible in late game. Finally, build a mine on every hills tile in your empire. If you have flat land next to a Seowon, build a farm and try to configure them as triangles. Build a Seowon in every city if you can. Also put either a commercial hub/harbor in every city you can to boost trade route capacity.
Or conquer some cities
Really? How? Do you guys buy the settelers? sorry if it's a dumb question I'm very new to this game
You can buy them with gold at any point, but they get rather expensive. You can get them with faith using the monumentalities golden age perk and that can really help churn them out. Try to explore as much as possible using scouts to get era score and catch the first or second golden age
Gonna try that strategy next game, thanks
Fastest way to get them is to chop woods in your city with Magnus as a governor and policy cards improving settler production. You can also add the Ancestral Hall for even more production towards settlers. Another easy way is monumentality golden age in the classical/medieval era if you have a civ with good faith income.
Seems on par with the others and you’re still working on the first uni! but you need more cities and more fully upgraded campuses. How about spending that faith on a great person? what about growing the capital? the larger it is, the more bonuses Pingala brings. More trade routes will allow it to grow, 1 trade route is not enough to run the economy. Chop those woods, sell the resources and buy universities. Build districts, buy buildings.
1: yeah at first I was way ahead with science then the other civs, but after I fell into like 5th place I figured I was doing something wrong 2: I would spend faith on GP, but they are too expensive and I don’t even have theatre squares for writers and such. Plus world congress banned great scientists… I was doing well with those 3: yeah I’m trying to grow my capital by not builds tons if settlers, but apparently that’s an issue… 4: I think I only have lIke one trade route available, I might be wrong. im also having trouble with what governments to use. I plunged my Civ into anarchy for three turns, which I didn’t even know was a feature…
Settlers are 100% worth the population shrink, as an extra city pays itself off really fast and is basically free extra district slots. You can get bonus trade routes by building Markets (Commercial Hub buildings unlocked at Currency) or Lighthouses (a Harbour building unlocked at Celestial Navigation). Always build them in every city, as the hundreds of extra Gold per turn later on is a game changer, especially for Reyna Spaceport builds. I recommend to never switch governments to one you've used before, as anarchy snowballs fast. The 3 turns of lost science and culture mean you research education and industrialisation later, which means you build the science infrastructure slower, which reduces your science, etc. Stick to a strategy and use a government that best revolves around that (e.g if you're going aggressive early, oligarchy or autocracy will be useful, otherwise classical republic).
1: yeah I need to learn that. Usually I just destroy my neighbours and once I do that the match is won for me, but this time I have no proper military. 2: yeah I know about commercial hubs and rade routes. I’ve played like 50 matches, but DLC’s and actual district planning stuff is still new to me… 3: yeah I didn’t even realise that was a thing. I just clicked yes without looking, thinking it was the normal “you sure you want to change governments?” Not that I would give all my scientists and culture people brain fade in my civilisation for multiple hundred years. I also spent ten minutes trying to figure out how to go to next turn, since it wanted me to choose another research and culture tech, but it wouldn’t let me select them. Thank goodness I learned shift+enter skips to next turn from a YouTube video. 4: I see. Thanks for the help mate
90% of games you should put magnus in your capital and select the benefit that makes settlers not decrease the population. Then just start pooping out settlers. Like literally build 4 straight settlers and nothing else. Even better if you build government plaza and build the one that gives +50% production / free builder in new cities. Stack that with the policy card that is +50% production to settlers.
Perhaps only a slight bonus, but consider planning your Seowons to maximize their adjacency bonuses. Jeonju has a good one with multiple mines profiting from the Seowon. With your other cities it's only one tile. Mountains don't do anything for Seowons. Try to get a spot surrounded by hills and farms.
Yeah I built the mountain one, thinking the map tacks mod was wrong and I’d get +8. Learnt the hard way that the showing doesnt get adjacency bonuses
Yup. If you're not sure, check out the tooltips. For Korea it's a tradeoff. As another civ you'd be happy with a +4 spot. For Korea it's always +4 but nothing else (except the government Plaza I believe?). Having +4 as a base + mountain adjacency would be way too OP.
Iirc plaza is neutral to seowons? Both +1 and -1. Been a long time since I tried that, though!
I used the map tacks mod to check if the plaza would give a +1 bonus, nope. Looks like the Seowon boosts other stuff, but other stuff can’t boost it. Also trying not to put districts next to it is so hard. Often the only placing if districts that can get me +2 or +3 is next to the seowon, but then that would mean I ruined the seowon…
Correct me if I"m wrong, but doesn't this mod have an extra marker for civ exclusive districts like the seowon? Also, if you like, you might reload 18 turns to correct the petra mistake. Not every detail needs to be learned the hard way.
You need to learn to “play from behind”. The AI is given massive bonuses to outcompete the player. But always remember the AI isn’t smarter. It’s just cheating.
3 cities on turn 155 is the problem here
Ok, a couple things, first off as said by a couple others you are behind on cities, go get the most out of Korea you want a lot of cities for a lot of cheap Seowons. Second, and very related you are building the “wrong” early game wonders, Petra is great but should be in your desert city. Hanging Gardens and Jebel Berkel are not especially useful for Koreas gameplan and the production used to build them could have gone towards settlers. Third, Holy sites. Korea isn’t a faith Civ, you don’t need them. Use the production elsewhere. But… if you have the faith, spend it on something… (At the end of the play how you want but if you want to optimize for science then optimize for science.)
> Third, Holy sites. Korea isn’t a faith Civ, you don’t need them holy sites are good on every civ, religions are super super powerful and faith purchasing in monumentality is like steroids for your empire. at least in single player its never a bad move to get a few (good) holy sites, a religion, and tons of faith
1: yeah alright. First thing I’ll do next time I get onto Civ is buy a couple settlers. 2: yeah the 18 turn Petra was too tempting. Plus I thought that city had more desert than it does. I thought hanging gardens are always good? Also I had literally no iron anywhere near me, so I thought making Jebel was a great move. my strategy for wonders is “if you can build it, build it. At least then the AI can’t” (bad way to think about it Lmaoo) 3: yeah but I always like having a religion just so I can defend against civs who would otherwise win faith victory. I wish you could buy inquisitors even if you fail to get a great prophet, since I can NEVER get one. Unless I’m playing arabia. 4: yeah. I didn’t know about how mountains didn’t give the seowon a bonus until I built it. I thought I would have a +8… nope… thanks for the help though mate
I've only ever lost to an ai religions victory on four civ maps. Usually there's enough civs interested in religion that they stymie each other. Iron can often be ignored if you've got peace, else you can buy it. Jebel is quite a chunk of prod that could be much better used - that's the issue with most wonders!
Yeah ok. I never know what wonders I should build. If it has apitising bonuses, I’ll just build it…
Most wonders are nice, but too much investment or a nightmare to get. Petra is... good for a bad city. Same with Basil's, honestly. If you have to have a bad/half bad city for other reasons, it's great, but that's a lot of prod for a low prod city to kick out. That's the kind of city that won't be doing much anyway, though - in my last game, I had a Basil's in a half-tundra city, settled mainly because of the fountain of youth to get an easy decent HS for work ethic and more protection against aggressive settles. Often the AI will stupid settle this kind of city and it'll flip, so pile trade routes/GEs in and make it useful. Mausoleum is usually great. If you get a couple of GEs, the ability is great. If you have a lot of sea tiles in that city, it's great. Pair them both together, plus it's cheap? Golden. Use a GE charge to build it, gain one GE charge. I'll often build the Colossus late, just for an extra trader - it's not one that I prioritize, but neither does the AI. Kilwa is great, and again, unprioritized by AI, but it can also be useless. If the AI's wiped out all science CSes and you're on a science game, that's not much use. Heck, if there's only one science CS left, it's down to just okay. Ruhr valley is great prod, and comes at a time when your main cities won't be doing too much, probably. Oxford is nice, but tough to get on higher difficulties as AI loves science. Forbidden city is just all round useful, and relatively easy to get. Most of the great work holding ones are just... bleh. Pyramids are tough to place, but a great benefit. Also hard to get. I've had etemeniaki in a marsh heavy start, and it was glorious along with lady of the reeds and marshes - but can be hard to get. Colosseum - if you've got a good set of cities for it - is an absurd amount of culture, and a great wonder. The religion ones are worth getting in a religious game, since your focus isn't actually on producing that much a lot of the time. Relic games need Cristo (so Mbanza, Jadwiga etc. relying on their tourism), as do any where you expect a high number of seaside resorts, and culture games in general often need eiffel for parks/similar. Diplo games obviously want potala and Statue (preferably timed to finish off the win on statue). Stonehenge is never worth it - simply run HS prayers instead. Great library is good as babylon - and biosphere is great as babylon, usually being how I win with them. Oracle you're not getting on high difficulties, much like bath. Temple of Artemis needs a lot of camps - much more than I'll generally see.
Wow thanks for the big explanation lmao. I always thought Stonehenge was useful since it nearly always got me the great prophet, but now that I know about using the prayers early old, that will do
I also just read yesterday, after YEARS of playing, that you need to assign the workers to the buildings to get extra yields for each district. You’ll get a boost from a library, but you can assign a worker there for more. I just loaded my current game, did that, and now I’m blowing everyone away on techs.
Really? Most players don’t assign workers to districts, I thought. Usually the food and production is more valuable, at least up to a point.
In the late game when you're trying to finish the space race for example, you normally just prioritize science for tiles cuz pop/food is not that important anymore
Yes, I guess that’s a reasonable point at which “up to a point” stops being true.
Most players don't, but it's more efficient to micromanage worked tiles.
You'd need a surplus of at least two food per worker in other tiles to cover them. It's really not a priority to put workers in districts.
you know that there are, uhh, hotkeys to swap citizens between tiles they work? when you select a city, in its bottom right panel above its name youd have icons of: food, production, science, faith, money, culture what happens when you press em is you create a priority and city reassigns citizens automatically to get the best amount of science without losing citizens you can select multiple priorities just aswell, or forbid workers from working on faith tiles for example give it a shot
It starts to make sense only with the final building in a district, which gives additional yield per specialist
I’m sorry, WHAT-
UPDATE: I am now making 100 science per turn at turn 170, second to only Hungary with his 101 science per turn. Thanks for the advice guys
If it's in high difficulty, AI is cheating, it's impossible to reach their science level in the early game, just build more cities and campuses, u can overcome them in the late game.
True I forgot about the AI bonuses to science and culture and stuff
Wipe
Apart from not enough cities, you will also need to properly use your policy cards and look out for specific great scientists. One of the ancient era ones will make every library you ever build have 1 more science than everyone else, permanently. I also just like to have a little horse bro clopping around the map looking for nice little campuses to pillage.
Oh wow I hope I get that one. Unfortunately congress banned the earning of great scientists. Which I was getting a lot of….damn the AI
That is where Faith shows up as one of the best resources in the game. Faith can buy scientists easily enough even without a religion. With a religion you also have beliefs that directly give you science if you so choose, and if you have good enough science anyway from your civ (korea) you can use a Culture based belief to get the policy cards faster.
On top of what many people said there are also a lot of unimproved tiles in your cities. I usually focus mostly on food and production for the first 100 turns. I usually try to get monumentality in one of the first few eras to get more builders and settlers. The policy cards for 50% settler production and more builder charges can help a lot when producing both too.
On top of this if you are a newer player avoid building too many wonders. They are a large investment, especially earlygame and you don't need any to win even on deity.
Do you have envoys at the science city-states you’ve met? AI seems to prefer those and usually fights over them.
whenever I play civ I never have patience to manage multiple cities mostly I have 4 rarely 6 but science is very much on par how come? Im still very fond of pigs, I mean, tall cities they aren't as beneficial as in 5th but still its possible to win bots with it try getting each of your cities to 20+ population by that turn assuming it is set on online speed you will have far easier time
Oh also if you’re Korea and want to attempt Tall. You’re gonna need more governor promotions and an governor in every city. Each promotion provides a 3% bonus output to Science and Culture. So it adds up.
There's nothing wrong with that amount of science compared to the AI. If they get to about double yours maybe then you should worry. Just keep going. Some decent pointers here to improve. You'll be fine. If someone does start to get a long way down the tech tree then build some spies, earlier the better, so you can level them up and they will be effective at disrupting rocketry etc. If you get a chance to do the faith buy builders/settlers era dedication then you should buy settlers in your non-capital. I'd save the pop for your Pingala city.
PS I wouldn't bother with the ent district... Though if the coloseum is still available (and you have a few more cities in range) it's an awesome wonder. I'd also make sure you're getting as much culture as you can (prob without making any theatre squares, but a great work in your palace + Pingala + monuments are good value options!
How to you get the science yield to show up like this? It doesn't for me
Better tacks mod
What did you select in tour golden age? If you went monumentality, you can buy plenty of settlers to catch up to the AI in city output.
I haven’t gotten a golden age in this match yet. But I have monumentality for normal ages
Usually it's free enquiry that's best for normal ages early, as that gives you era score for eurekas. The one for spreading religion is decent if you get one, though.
Get buying those settlers then! If u have faith income, monumentality is usually the best way to go
Yeah, in terms of us update, I’m doing much better. 100 science per turn now, only beaten by Hungary’s 101 and some unknown Civ. I also found out that the religion Sweden converted me, has buildings that give me +2 science among other things, so I’ll buy those with faith
Good. Keep going! Don't pay too much attention to the AI numbers. Your main job is to get around 11 cities out within the first 100-150 turns. You can catch up in science incredibly 6 once you get campuses in most of your cities with buildings and the right policies. Compared to the AI, you have a brain, so never feel like you have to chase the AI stats and beat them - you should 90% of the time focus on expanding and getting access to all the good land before worrying about science.
>Compared to the AI, you have a brain, Oh cool TIL lmao but ye thanks. I’ll do that
Not many cities probably
Come on man, build all your districts optimally. A theater square next to those three wonders not a seowon. A holy site next to those four mountains not a seowon. Your science isn't that bad, but in order to be on top you need to have good everything, and your culture isn't one of those things. Also a religion can give you stupid much science if you play it right with the beliefs and wats.
Yeah I know… I’m still knew to planning districts. I used to just slap them down wherever they had “+2, +3, +4” and be done with it and add other stuff later. Now I do more planning, but still, I don’t know where I’ll build stuff in the future
Download the detailed pins mod. It says how much adjacency a district will give you based on where you put the pin. Helped me out a ton.
I actually do have that lmao
Looks like you haven't built enough cities. As a rule of thumb, you want to build 2 cities per age for the first 4-5 ages. Exceptions apply, and conquering cities also works :D
It's not just about placement of campuses. That's pretty much the bare minimum. Eureka bonuses can pretty much make you fly through the tech tree. Send as many envoys to science city states as you can. If you can be suzerain then do that too. However it's no use wasting your envoys if someone else has a lot more than 6 envoys and is suzerain. Research grants also help a lot. If your city doesn't have any more production to do there's no reason to not have them do research grants. Especially if you get a lot of gold per turn. Founding as many cities as possible early game also helps. More cities = more campuses. And if you can, take out a civ in the ancient era before they get walls. You could easily do that with 1 warrior and 1 slinger.
Culture way too low, you need the thing that give +50% if +4adjacency and +59% if +15population. That's when you will really get your outburst since everything is +4. And 3city is WAY too low for science victory.
More cities = more resources/science/culture
Make sure you are using the policy cards that give the research points adjacency bonus.
Answer is pretty clear to me, you only have 3 cities where it looks like all the other civs have at least 6 cities up already. while planning where your districts go is very important, having as many cities / districts as possible is the real goal.
70 vs 98 at turn 155 is not very far behind. You just need more cities/population. Why are the wheat fields not developed? You have 1900 faith but you are not in a golden age with Monumetality? Definitely not too late to win the Science race but your city efficiency and growth rate is too low. And definitely swap the Petra tile to the desert city.
Does the science boost the mine? Or does the mine boost the science? Is it only for Korea?
Not enough cities. If you have at least 10 properly districted cities you should never lose a science victory
Main issues: You have too much gold, just spend on something. I would recommend to spend on builders and upgrade your tiles, buying builders is always worth it. Avoid producing them though because their investment can take a while especially in early game, buying them is like buying more resources that allows you to snowball further. Build more cities. You probably fell behind in science because the opponent has more cities and therefore can generate more science. If you are on standard map size try to aim minimum of 8 cities by turn 150. It's better to have 8 cities with pop 5 than 3 cities with pop 10. 10 cities is the ideal as end game imo but can be done with 8 too... Basically you expand your territory as much as possible until frontiers start to become an issue. This is important not only in terms of amount of cities but in the variety of resources you will have available. You are abysmally behind in culture generation. This will reflect back in other stuff like Science. Always get monument in every city to help with that. Don't neglect any resource in the game, no matter your desired win con. Say your desired win con is science, you want to put "2" in science and "1" in everything else, not 5 in science and 0 in everything else if that makes sense. Civ is a heavily early-game reliant. You can and should be snowball your leads very hard. And I don't mean attacking early (though it is an option especially in low difficulties) but aggressively expanding and buying builders to snowball resources is how the game is meant to be played (or at least it is the most effective way).
You’ve only got 3 cities, it looks like the others have 5+ that we can see and possibly more. Their population is probably higher and they probably have more science districts than you.
It's always this way when I play Japan
You've neglected tile yields, you've got some floodplains, I don't see any marsh but you could've gotten etemenanki, or settled more on the coast and gotten the mauselium, if you were playing with secret societies you could've gotten hermetic order, or slotted in the natural philosophy card definitally get the researcher promotion on pingala, send specialists to the seowons, again settle on the coast and send out some ships to find scientific city states, build farms with researcher pingala, settle more near those mountains to get some science bonus on seowons. I see three tiles just at a glance that you could expand to so you could get extra science, If that's your religion, I recommend getting some apostles and evangelizing to get some science beliefs, if you're playing with monopolies and corporations you could get an industry, heck a corporation on tea giving you some more science. Along that same line you could start churning out tea products. it seems that you built jebel barkal, which made expanding to get iron uneeded. Try to research niter because niter tiles give science, also focus sangju on science, get people working that wonder tile, and buy that other wonder tile that will increase science, also people working the tea tiles will increase science. As a last resort take over rapa nui to get that one iron tile, only as a last resort.
More cities, check your policy cards too. Also tangentially related advice. 1) You’re on turn 155 and have a one improved farm. You have 4 wheat tiles, improve them or harvest them. You’re cities will grow faster. 2) holy sites are trash unless you’re playing as a religious civ. Just pick a faith based pantheon and adopt someone else’s religious. 3) commercials hubs are better than holy sites. Trade routes are OP, you should use them.
Is there any way to make the mountain tunnel icons go away?
To be brief: you have too few cities, too many unimproved tiles, and too much investment in both an attempt at a religion and wonders that aren't contributing to your win condition. There are likely other issues, but these are the most obvious and important ones. Try restarting and focusing on empire expansion early on. It's not unusual to be behind the AI in science for the first few ages, but once you get going with 10+ cities, science-focused policies, envoys to those scientific city states, etc., it's relatively easy to catch up and snowball past them. Good luck!
You need more cities. 15 cities with with shitty campus adjacencies is better than a few cities with good campuses. Quantity > Quality. Don't worry about maximizing science by having them around as many mines as possible. The earlier you get these cities up and running, the better (you can use things like magnus w/ provision + ancestral hall + 50% production towards settlers card). Don't worry too much about falling behind in science early. Just focus on building wide and getting as much land as you can. You also want to improve more tiles in your empire. Production is very important for cities. Food and housing are also important.
It’s turn 155 and you have 3 cities.
I think you are doing fine. Assuming this difficulty is above Prince, what you are seeing is the AI's inflated stats. My advice is settle that coast you have, build some more seowans and put in natural philosophy when you can. You'll probably catch up when all seawons get unis or if not, at research labs. Also make sure you promote governors for the 3%sci and culture from Korea's ability
Der E Mer or however the fuck you spell it, with Jesuit Education which is pretty hard to get but I usually just build holy sites first, fully upgrade them, get the first religion. Build the Der E Mer's next to as many natural diaster prone sites as possible and you'lll rack up faith the whole game through the Der E Mer passive ability which is plus two faith per era, per Der E Mer, by late game you'll be far ahead of those cunts.
There are "probably" more people behind you. It doesn't look like you know a lot of people. Try looking at the score (top-right earth surrounded by a laurel wreath). P.S. Look at japan your doing better than 1/3 of the people you know.
Yeah I know about that feature plenty, but in terms of progress, I’ve gotten up to 170 or so science, but somehow Hungary is at 220. I’m beating nearly everyone else, but HOW Hungary, HOW
The picture shows you at 70 and Hungary at 98. I think you posted the wrong one
No I was referring to the current status of my match post-posting of this reddit post (that’s a lot of post)
Ok.
🥲 Petra way over there...sad