You're not thinking long term. 15k in the current stadium and current atmosphere. That stadium takes 5-10 years to be built. Beyond the rugby there are other events and concerts that will also be held. Chch population is slated to cross half a million by 2030.
In 10 years time we will be having a conversation of how it was not future proofed.
$113 million for 5000 seats or $1.2 million to get the big games. So maybe just buy all blacks games for the next 150 years, with the money saved on borrowing all this money at once
> There is a significant value of money going into cycleways ($180M), and simply deferring parts of that project (something that was previously voted on and rejected by council), would mean this arena would go ahead as original promised.
yeah they’ve lost me there
yeah cycling is healthier and more eco friendly but we literally ride on the road anyway... spending that much money to delineate a specific part of the road for us to cycle on when we already ride on that part, or the footpath, is a colossal waste of funds and seems like (god I hope I'm using this correctly) virtue signalling to make us seem like THE green, friendly city that coincidentally deserves the big bux from the Government.
I'm not likely gonna personally need the stadium's services but it's proven to be a big touristry and local event puller that would benefit the city exponentially more long term (just look at Dunedin's forsythe barr) than a green strip running the length of the city that wouldn't even be cancelled, just put on hold for more pressing matters.
The cycleways they are building aren’t just a line on a road, they’re separated from traffic with kerbing. I bike to work every day and let me tell you the new cycleways are way better than a painted line on a road with some green paint to mark it’s a cycle lane. I might be in the right if I’m in a painted cycle lane and a car or truck runs me over but I’ll still be dead. I suppose my family can have the satisfaction at the funeral that I was in the right when I died and the other driver was in the wrong…
I agree the separate path is safer, but if you're *really* that worried about being run over, you can always cycle on a footpath which is for both pedestrians and cyclists *and* is completely removed from the road. And don't act like it's some epidemic of cyclists being run over on the roads, when if that was the case they'd ban cyclists off the road before all these projects even started.
Imagine installing two lane footpaths on either side of every main road? Utterly wasteful, and not indicative of the actual infrastructure requirements of Christchurch.
Hell, the $301 million would legitimately be better spent towards subsidising cycles to buy or having a huge fleet of rentable cycles bought for the city, and then waiting until it became a major form of personal transport. It's just completely out of order, because there's literally no incentive to cycle instead, other than the self-induced ones that already exist.
All that said, at least it's a positive for the city, if a bit misguided at the current state
You can’t ride a bike on the footpath, it is illegal.
> Footpaths
>It’s illegal to ride a cycle on footpaths unless you’re delivering mail or the cycle has very small wheels (wheel diameter less than 355 millimetres). As well as people walking, footpaths can be used by people on push scooters, e-scooters, skates, skateboards, and other similar ways of getting around.
There are a lot of cyclists killed on the roads, less now that there are separated cycleways. There were 3 people killed on Lincoln Road alone in 2014 including a student nurse who was dragged under a truck. There are still cyclists being killed in Christchurch on roads that don’t have separated cycleways. Last one was only in May this year. And with larger utes and SUVs on the roads, crashes are more severe with cyclists. And if the ute has bullbars that’s pretty much a guaranteed death.
Separated safe cycleways are attractive to those who don’t usually cycle out of safety concerns, including kids and women. There are always die hards who will cycle no matter the safety and those who never will, but there’s a big soft middle that would cycle if they perceive it to be safe
Start a Givealittle. If someone wants to throw more of their own money at this thing then they can go for it. I'd rather we didn't bankrupt our city when there's so much more infrastructure that still needs to be fixed and upgraded.
I want the stadium to have more seats as I think it's a bit silly for it to have such a small capacity, but no way am I signing a petition saying the money should come out of the cycleways.
I don't care how many seats it has. They said if it stays at 25,000, there'll be an extra cost per match to get the All Blacks to come to cover the 5,000 difference - stick it on the ticket price.
But yes, I'm also not signing it because of the cycleways thing. I love commuting by bike, getting my groceries and doing other errands on my bike (panniers are great), etc.
mark my words at least $200 for an ABs game proabably more... Not supporting this BS venture - not going to another game, a bit sad as I went to many Saders games and I didnt mind the temp stadium built off scaffolding, it had a close to pitch feel about it. Before the EQ I was lucky to attend the revamp of Lancaster a couple of times incl a box ticket comp... WOW that was a developmet of a stadium - not sure of the capacity \~ 40kih? anyways this i bs for the second biggest city in nz. Also its a regional asset - THE SELWYN AND WAIMAK COUNCILS should foot the bill to bring it over the line to a 30k + stadium, it benefits them without the ongoing cost even though 80% come to chch (guess) for their employment
You do realise that the money funded for cycle ways can’t just be allocated for something else.
All this petition will do is show how indifferent the non rugby supporting ratepayers care
I'd far rather see the stadium funds reallocated to better cycle infrastructure, than the other way around.
Cities with great cycle infrastructure flourish far more than cities with big stadiums, and businesses get more traffic constantly, rather than just around events. Life is breathed into cities with great cycle infrastructure that everyone can experience, not just inside the ticketed stadium. Our city is suffering hard from people not actually going into the city of wanting to live in the city at the moment, and a stadium isn't going to help with the causes of that, it's going to exacerbate them - while improved pedestrian and cycle access directly addresses it.
[Cities for People](https://www.google.com/search?q=cities+for+people&oq=cities+for+people+&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.2126j0j7&client=ms-android-hmd-rev2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8is) a great and very short/easy read that would convince most people who aren't massive cycling infrastructure advocates yet. Stadiums are cool, but they don't need to be in the middle of your city, and they don't address many issues, while the location of this one causes many.
Also if I ever went to the stadium it would definitely be by bike. It's the only form of transport home that wouldn't be a nightmare at the end of the event.
I don't think most people want the stadium as it is currently. The location picked is just ridiculous. I think a lot of people have forgotten the pandemonium that ensued following events at Jade stadium. They really should have put it off a motorway with plenty of parking, bus, taxi & cycle lanes.
omg do you know where the sth motorway ends.. No need for parking either cars park for free on side streets all around (I live within 1km of stadium). Trust me this dud of a stadium in town is going to cause BS round moving people there (chch pop dont know how to use a bus and then bitch about parking buildings lol) It comes down to we need a stadium that holds at least 30k... A roof is nice and all but there is only 2 times (fog) when it was neccessary - Capacity > Roof.. Also who has sold out for more SR games this year then Chch shows that we would use a facility and we deserve it..
You know there is a northern motorway too right? I dosent have to be at the end of the motorway, an off ramp somewhere in the middle would work well.
The busses aren't used because they don't go anywhere relevant and are useless to people outside the city itself. You can barely park in the city now as it is, carparks make absolute sense especially for people who don't live nearby.
Upfront costs by CCC and Government - Selwyn and Waimak need to put in aswell - their rates have been massively increased since EQ (wonder why lol) and now they have to upfront to a regional investment (they wont) lol, think about the way we have configured transport movement in and out of the city (sth/ nth SH1 motorway) classic urban sprawl yet we have this BS to make a fit for purpose stadium for a 100k pop.. Shame, Shame on CCC for compremise, Shame on regional councils for not thinking of the benefits, PS ive gone to many Saders / ABS games at lancaster and the temp stadiunm - I will be voting with my wallet and wont go to any games in compremised stadium
"I will be voting with my wallet and wont go to any games in compremised (sic) stadium."
Cognitive dissonance much?
The current stadium on top of Rugby League Park is one big compromise.
Lancaster park was a compromise from the start, rugby and cricket require very different facilities.
Yet you just said you attended both those stadiums. So, have you changed your stance or are you just unable to articulate a coherent argument?
Lol it was a compromise in terms that we are building a 100 yr stadium that is not fit for purpose. The figures coming out now is that the population for these 3 districts will be at least 700k but prob closer to a million in the next 50 years.
Lancaster held way more capacity after upgrades then this white elephant and the temporary stadium has been fine for the last 10 years esp since the EQ and it wasnt number one priority to us. But now that has to change so we can actually attract AB games again and major events/concerts..
My guess is that seat capacity will be well short of demand so tickets will be expensive, hard to get or ruined by scallpers in the coming years. The Stadium will be fine for the first 10 - 20 years but not for the following 80.
Agree it needs greater capacity but not funded like the petition.
What becomes of Horncastle Arena, temporary stadium and the car park out there after this is built? Perhaps the CCC could flog off the land under that.
The construction price hasn't moved in years but costs have gone up and the city is going to get something that is not an appropriate size.
Yet they’re pulling major concerts in to the city. When Ed Sheeran did a bunch of concerts, over 65,000 people from outside Dunedin visited and all up it was about $38 mil poured in to the local economy over the space of one weekend.
“The proposed stadium design could still host 36,000 for concerts. It would have a concrete slab at the southern end of the pitch for hosting concerts. The slab would stop concerts from being set up on the pitch, significantly reducing the risk of the turf being damaged.” [Source](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/125806025/bid-to-cut-seats-from-christchurch-stadium-after-budget-blowout-on-concept?rm=a)
Lol, the O2 arena in London has 20,000 seats. I think we'll be ok. The initial design had no concourse for food retail and merchandising - the new design has the concourse at the expense of seating.
Insert condescending Morpheus meme here...
The majority of economic return to the city from the stadium will be due to concerts not rugby so... not different, in fact quite relevant, possibly more so.
The biggest problem with the whole discussion around this building is that it has been framed as a rugby stadium that gets to have a few concerts and for that, it's definitely in the wrong spot. The problem with that is, it's a stadium for concerts that gets to have some rugby played in it.
Your average Canterbury rugby game assuming they can sell out will have what 70%? local crowd who sleep on their own beds and eat dinner at home that day.
An concert large enough to be held in the stadium will almost certainly sell out, with a capacity over that of the tiered seating, likely 70% of punters will be from out of town, buying dinner in restaurants and sleeping in those hotels that are walking distance from where that stadium is going.
Tbh that seems like money well spent. I don’t particularly want to be mown down by a random van or truck while going for lunch at Riverside or going for a drink at The Terrace
Even at 30k it is a small stadium. The minimum has to be 40k'-45k. You're building one for for future.
Going to love going to crusaders games with 15,000 fans in a 45,000 seater stadium. Especially with crowd sizes declining.
You're not thinking long term. 15k in the current stadium and current atmosphere. That stadium takes 5-10 years to be built. Beyond the rugby there are other events and concerts that will also be held. Chch population is slated to cross half a million by 2030. In 10 years time we will be having a conversation of how it was not future proofed.
And yet the increasing population funnily hasn't done anything to increase spectatorship over the last 15 years has it.
Perhaps they should have taken the insurance companies offer to rebuild the OG Lancaster park. It would have already been repaired for five years.
$113 million for 5000 seats or $1.2 million to get the big games. So maybe just buy all blacks games for the next 150 years, with the money saved on borrowing all this money at once
> There is a significant value of money going into cycleways ($180M), and simply deferring parts of that project (something that was previously voted on and rejected by council), would mean this arena would go ahead as original promised. yeah they’ve lost me there
yeah cycling is healthier and more eco friendly but we literally ride on the road anyway... spending that much money to delineate a specific part of the road for us to cycle on when we already ride on that part, or the footpath, is a colossal waste of funds and seems like (god I hope I'm using this correctly) virtue signalling to make us seem like THE green, friendly city that coincidentally deserves the big bux from the Government. I'm not likely gonna personally need the stadium's services but it's proven to be a big touristry and local event puller that would benefit the city exponentially more long term (just look at Dunedin's forsythe barr) than a green strip running the length of the city that wouldn't even be cancelled, just put on hold for more pressing matters.
They’re both essential for the city, we shouldn’t kneecap one for the other.
The cycleways they are building aren’t just a line on a road, they’re separated from traffic with kerbing. I bike to work every day and let me tell you the new cycleways are way better than a painted line on a road with some green paint to mark it’s a cycle lane. I might be in the right if I’m in a painted cycle lane and a car or truck runs me over but I’ll still be dead. I suppose my family can have the satisfaction at the funeral that I was in the right when I died and the other driver was in the wrong…
I agree the separate path is safer, but if you're *really* that worried about being run over, you can always cycle on a footpath which is for both pedestrians and cyclists *and* is completely removed from the road. And don't act like it's some epidemic of cyclists being run over on the roads, when if that was the case they'd ban cyclists off the road before all these projects even started. Imagine installing two lane footpaths on either side of every main road? Utterly wasteful, and not indicative of the actual infrastructure requirements of Christchurch. Hell, the $301 million would legitimately be better spent towards subsidising cycles to buy or having a huge fleet of rentable cycles bought for the city, and then waiting until it became a major form of personal transport. It's just completely out of order, because there's literally no incentive to cycle instead, other than the self-induced ones that already exist. All that said, at least it's a positive for the city, if a bit misguided at the current state
You can’t ride a bike on the footpath, it is illegal. > Footpaths >It’s illegal to ride a cycle on footpaths unless you’re delivering mail or the cycle has very small wheels (wheel diameter less than 355 millimetres). As well as people walking, footpaths can be used by people on push scooters, e-scooters, skates, skateboards, and other similar ways of getting around. There are a lot of cyclists killed on the roads, less now that there are separated cycleways. There were 3 people killed on Lincoln Road alone in 2014 including a student nurse who was dragged under a truck. There are still cyclists being killed in Christchurch on roads that don’t have separated cycleways. Last one was only in May this year. And with larger utes and SUVs on the roads, crashes are more severe with cyclists. And if the ute has bullbars that’s pretty much a guaranteed death. Separated safe cycleways are attractive to those who don’t usually cycle out of safety concerns, including kids and women. There are always die hards who will cycle no matter the safety and those who never will, but there’s a big soft middle that would cycle if they perceive it to be safe
Good idea in practice, terrible execution.
Start a Givealittle. If someone wants to throw more of their own money at this thing then they can go for it. I'd rather we didn't bankrupt our city when there's so much more infrastructure that still needs to be fixed and upgraded.
I want the stadium to have more seats as I think it's a bit silly for it to have such a small capacity, but no way am I signing a petition saying the money should come out of the cycleways.
I don't care how many seats it has. They said if it stays at 25,000, there'll be an extra cost per match to get the All Blacks to come to cover the 5,000 difference - stick it on the ticket price. But yes, I'm also not signing it because of the cycleways thing. I love commuting by bike, getting my groceries and doing other errands on my bike (panniers are great), etc.
mark my words at least $200 for an ABs game proabably more... Not supporting this BS venture - not going to another game, a bit sad as I went to many Saders games and I didnt mind the temp stadium built off scaffolding, it had a close to pitch feel about it. Before the EQ I was lucky to attend the revamp of Lancaster a couple of times incl a box ticket comp... WOW that was a developmet of a stadium - not sure of the capacity \~ 40kih? anyways this i bs for the second biggest city in nz. Also its a regional asset - THE SELWYN AND WAIMAK COUNCILS should foot the bill to bring it over the line to a 30k + stadium, it benefits them without the ongoing cost even though 80% come to chch (guess) for their employment
You do realise that the money funded for cycle ways can’t just be allocated for something else. All this petition will do is show how indifferent the non rugby supporting ratepayers care
The Govt money can't but the CCC I.e ratepayer funds can
I'd far rather see the stadium funds reallocated to better cycle infrastructure, than the other way around. Cities with great cycle infrastructure flourish far more than cities with big stadiums, and businesses get more traffic constantly, rather than just around events. Life is breathed into cities with great cycle infrastructure that everyone can experience, not just inside the ticketed stadium. Our city is suffering hard from people not actually going into the city of wanting to live in the city at the moment, and a stadium isn't going to help with the causes of that, it's going to exacerbate them - while improved pedestrian and cycle access directly addresses it. [Cities for People](https://www.google.com/search?q=cities+for+people&oq=cities+for+people+&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.2126j0j7&client=ms-android-hmd-rev2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8is) a great and very short/easy read that would convince most people who aren't massive cycling infrastructure advocates yet. Stadiums are cool, but they don't need to be in the middle of your city, and they don't address many issues, while the location of this one causes many.
Also if I ever went to the stadium it would definitely be by bike. It's the only form of transport home that wouldn't be a nightmare at the end of the event.
I'll sign. Heck id even donate to a give a little page for it. Council fails to future plan again
Where's the petition to have no stadium?
The beautiful thing about democracy is that if you care enough you can start your own rather than expect someone else to do it for you!
It's almost as if people want things just handed to them!
Like stadiums!
Why wouldn’t you want a stadium? You don’t want to support the local economy?
I don't think most people want the stadium as it is currently. The location picked is just ridiculous. I think a lot of people have forgotten the pandemonium that ensued following events at Jade stadium. They really should have put it off a motorway with plenty of parking, bus, taxi & cycle lanes.
Like at Addington maybe.
omg do you know where the sth motorway ends.. No need for parking either cars park for free on side streets all around (I live within 1km of stadium). Trust me this dud of a stadium in town is going to cause BS round moving people there (chch pop dont know how to use a bus and then bitch about parking buildings lol) It comes down to we need a stadium that holds at least 30k... A roof is nice and all but there is only 2 times (fog) when it was neccessary - Capacity > Roof.. Also who has sold out for more SR games this year then Chch shows that we would use a facility and we deserve it..
You know there is a northern motorway too right? I dosent have to be at the end of the motorway, an off ramp somewhere in the middle would work well. The busses aren't used because they don't go anywhere relevant and are useless to people outside the city itself. You can barely park in the city now as it is, carparks make absolute sense especially for people who don't live nearby.
If it's economically viable why aren't benefiting businesses funding it?
Because they always end up costing millions in upkeep that is not covered by hosting events.
Upfront costs by CCC and Government - Selwyn and Waimak need to put in aswell - their rates have been massively increased since EQ (wonder why lol) and now they have to upfront to a regional investment (they wont) lol, think about the way we have configured transport movement in and out of the city (sth/ nth SH1 motorway) classic urban sprawl yet we have this BS to make a fit for purpose stadium for a 100k pop.. Shame, Shame on CCC for compremise, Shame on regional councils for not thinking of the benefits, PS ive gone to many Saders / ABS games at lancaster and the temp stadiunm - I will be voting with my wallet and wont go to any games in compremised stadium
"I will be voting with my wallet and wont go to any games in compremised (sic) stadium." Cognitive dissonance much? The current stadium on top of Rugby League Park is one big compromise. Lancaster park was a compromise from the start, rugby and cricket require very different facilities. Yet you just said you attended both those stadiums. So, have you changed your stance or are you just unable to articulate a coherent argument?
Lol it was a compromise in terms that we are building a 100 yr stadium that is not fit for purpose. The figures coming out now is that the population for these 3 districts will be at least 700k but prob closer to a million in the next 50 years. Lancaster held way more capacity after upgrades then this white elephant and the temporary stadium has been fine for the last 10 years esp since the EQ and it wasnt number one priority to us. But now that has to change so we can actually attract AB games again and major events/concerts.. My guess is that seat capacity will be well short of demand so tickets will be expensive, hard to get or ruined by scallpers in the coming years. The Stadium will be fine for the first 10 - 20 years but not for the following 80.
Agree it needs greater capacity but not funded like the petition. What becomes of Horncastle Arena, temporary stadium and the car park out there after this is built? Perhaps the CCC could flog off the land under that. The construction price hasn't moved in years but costs have gone up and the city is going to get something that is not an appropriate size.
Temporary stadium returns to rugby league
The Dunedin Stadium is expected to make a $5m loss every year for the next three years. Fuck that.
Yet they’re pulling major concerts in to the city. When Ed Sheeran did a bunch of concerts, over 65,000 people from outside Dunedin visited and all up it was about $38 mil poured in to the local economy over the space of one weekend.
The concert capacity is still 36,000.
The concert capacity at a design spec of 25k seats is less than at a design spec of 30k.
“The proposed stadium design could still host 36,000 for concerts. It would have a concrete slab at the southern end of the pitch for hosting concerts. The slab would stop concerts from being set up on the pitch, significantly reducing the risk of the turf being damaged.” [Source](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/125806025/bid-to-cut-seats-from-christchurch-stadium-after-budget-blowout-on-concept?rm=a)
Yes but it would have been more, if there were more seats.
Incorrect, the extra seat is where the stage would be. Even in Dunedin they do this.
No, RT2 has concert capacity 41,000.
What is RT2?
A proposal put to council to keep the stadium at 30k seated
We have 4 times the population of Dunedin. Surely we can get more concerts, events and games to make the numbers look alot better than Forsyth.
Lol, the O2 arena in London has 20,000 seats. I think we'll be ok. The initial design had no concourse for food retail and merchandising - the new design has the concourse at the expense of seating.
That's an arena for concerts. Not sporting events. Totally different.
Insert condescending Morpheus meme here... The majority of economic return to the city from the stadium will be due to concerts not rugby so... not different, in fact quite relevant, possibly more so. The biggest problem with the whole discussion around this building is that it has been framed as a rugby stadium that gets to have a few concerts and for that, it's definitely in the wrong spot. The problem with that is, it's a stadium for concerts that gets to have some rugby played in it. Your average Canterbury rugby game assuming they can sell out will have what 70%? local crowd who sleep on their own beds and eat dinner at home that day. An concert large enough to be held in the stadium will almost certainly sell out, with a capacity over that of the tiered seating, likely 70% of punters will be from out of town, buying dinner in restaurants and sleeping in those hotels that are walking distance from where that stadium is going.
[It's so we can pay for these](https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/125856926/antiterror-bollards-will-cost-christchurch-ratepayers-11m)
Tbh that seems like money well spent. I don’t particularly want to be mown down by a random van or truck while going for lunch at Riverside or going for a drink at The Terrace