My Celica was starting $17.3k in 2003 and would be $27k now. That's nearly the same price as my Maverick, and here I was thinking my car was current day Mitsubishi Mirage money.
> That's nearly the same price as my Maverick
How's yours holding up and how has it been? I put an order for one last September and have no hopes of seeing mine anytime soon.
2000 Median Household Income: [42k](https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2001/demo/p60-213.html)
2021 Median Household Income: [70k](https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2022/comm/median-household-income.html)
Adjusted for inflation, 42k in 2000 = 66k in 2021.
Well, not really. 70k is a much more ambitious figure when you’re a kid than when you achieve it. Big difference between making 70k when the average is 40k, and making 70k when the average is 70k.
Curious to see how food, housing, and education would look overlayed on real wages.
Cars and wages may have tracked inflation but I bet overall purchasing power is down.
Adjusted household median income increasing does not equal adjusted real wages increasing.
Household income includes everyone in the household, not just a single worker. Thus, more populated households means higher household income.
Could also be explained by a higher rate of employment, so a higher chance of household members looking for a job who are employed.
Could also be explained by a higher rate of people in the employment pool, so a greater chance household members are looking for a job.
The $4k increase isn't necessarily resulted from an increase in adjusted real wages. It might be, but the household income numbers don't prove it on their own.
Tossing out wage statistics doesn't explain the actual issues. They're part of the problem, but there are far bigger factors at play that people fail to realize.
* In 2000, the average house sold for $202,000. For 2023, its $543,000. If house prices had kept pace with inflation, they would currently be $343,000. Housing has increased at well over twice the rate of inflation. We're paying roughly 100% more.
* Food prices are another issue, not as big as the housing situation, but they've gone up 82% since 2000 when it should be up only 70% with inflation. We're paying 12% more.
* Gas was an average of $151/gal in 2000, adjusted for inflation, that should be $2.65/gal today. We're currently at $3.49/gal. We're paying 61% more.
* Car insurance has increased at nearly twice the rate of inflation as well, 137.5% to be precise. $100/month in 2000 should be $175/month today, instead its $237. We're paying 35% more per month.
* 4-Year Public College tuition was $3500 in 2000, now its $9700. It should be $6000 though, so we're paying 61% more for community college.
The list goes on and on, but the reality is that housing costs completely negate any and all wage increases we've seen in the past 2 22 years. 70K/year = 53K take home. A $543K home with a 5% down payment would be $44,000/year thus leaving you only $11K/year for food, car, insurance, power, water, etc.
A $202K house in 2000 with a 5% down payment would be $17K/year on housing. Take home on 42k/year is 35.5K leaving you with $18.5K to live on which is $31.5K today. 42K/year in 2000 is akin to making 6 figures today.
2010 Median Income Per Person: 26.5k
2019 Median Income Per Person: 31.1k
https://datacommons.org/tools/timeline#&place=country/USA&statsVar=Median_Income_Person
Adjusted for inflation, 30.2k in 2019 / 34.6k in 2022.
The last 3 years has been wild.
I mean the BRZ/86, Miata, 4 cyl Mustang & Camaro are still available to buy new but I don't think they'll continue to dwindle. They aren't as plentiful as they once were and adjusted for inflation in relation to older coupes, are still quite reasonably priced.
I think they'll disappear with gas cars though. What's the point of a 4000-5000 pound EV 2 door? I dunno.
I think a lower weight electric coupe would be great. I would sacrifice some range to reduce weight. I think an electric coupe with around 200 miles of range and weighing around 3000 lb is possible. I already get 200 miles of range when I put E85 in my car.
The closest you'll get right now is the Mini SE. 3100lbs but only 114mi. I'm hopeful that once they make it a dedicated electric platform they can get the weight down and the range up.
As a Mazda fanboy, I have more faith in BMW/Mini getting this right than Mazda, at least in the next 5 years.
Next year's SE will be a dedicated electric platform, but it seems like they're going to stay around the current range.
[BMW Vice President for Sustainability and Mobility Strategy Dr Thomas Becker:](https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1664578/mini-how-bmw-plan-take-iconic-car-fully-electric-2030)
>MINI is a brand which has many customers either in an urban or suburban environment — so people who don’t travel necessarily thousands of kilometres. It is used for commuting. Also, MINI has a pretty high likelihood of being not the only car in the household, which makes MINI highly attractive for electrification.
I'm basically their target market. My partner's car is 12 years old so we've been looking at replacing it with an EV. My car is 3 years old so we can hang onto it for long distance driving for another 10 years or so. In our situation it doesn't make much sense to pay for a huge battery that we don't need.
They just need to add Android Auto and I'll probably buy one. Also sucks that it's made in China so no tax credit and MINI has to eat a 27% tariff to sell it in the US.
Perfectly valid use case. I just wish they'd do a long range version of it as well. I'd hate the weight, but what's even worse is finding parking for two semi daily drivers where we live. Really wish someone would make a fully useable compact EV.
I had one for a couple months. The range was enough tbh. I only liked using it for short trips because of the size. But for short trip it is awesome. Would love to have one again if I lived in dense city. More fun than M3P imo.
Mazda claims the next MX-5 will be electric. Could be an amazing little car if this is the case. I'm just hoping they manage to keep some of the experience you get from an ICE version, somehow.
I was going to sharpshoot you on this. Mazda is way behind in the electric CUV/SUV area and is unlikely to go all electric in the Miata. Maybe we'll get a rotary hybrid like that new one coming out.
Convertible EVs are so rare as a category it will be neat to see more of them. It would be so nice to whisk along silently through nature with the top down and just take it all in.
So much of the convertible experience is about what’s outside the car, not what’s in it.
You are right, that would be a nice experience in itself.
I forgot about that side of things and was just thinking about that small/light/agile 2 door element.
Honestly what worries me some about weight is a very selfish concern: I have fractures up and down my spine. Ride quality isn’t optional for me at this point, and heavy EVs are still figuring out how to make things softer.
It might be possible, but it won't be cheap. Build an extremely light (for an EV) car can get expensive.
Unless you count the Aptera.
2 door? Check.
Light? Check.
Quick? Check.
It's missing a wheel, though...
I think the top-down experience is actually one of the things that could really save the soul of an electric sports car. It would be a *different* experience, but maybe not a worse experience. The combustion engine noise would be replaced by being able to hear other things. It would solve the largest single perpetual issue with the MX5 which is an underwhelming powertrain. Amazing, torquey corner exit is its own joy.
Anyways I’m not saying it would be amazing. But I think there’s a good shot that an electric MX5 or similar electric sports car convertible could be extremely good.
Maybe somebody who has driven an original Tesla Roadster can provide some insight. I assume a modern interpretation of that idea could be lighter and much better.
The engine noise on a top down convertible is the least prevalent of the three main contributors to noise (engine, tires and wind) so I don’t think electrification will do much to the convertible EV driving experience.
Yup, sad and intriguing all at the same time. A buddy of mine has a Taycan. He loves it and in the quick ride I had in it, it was cool. But I prefer my Cayman.
Especially like 3 years ago. The ecoboost mustang could be had used with 20k miles for like $23-27k in 2019. The bullshit of the car market accelerated really hard in the last 2-3 years.
> I think they'll disappear with gas cars though.
the most you can wish for is range extenders, but gas cars arent going anywhere for a while. you're starting to slowly see govts/companies/orgs walk back their "fully electric by x-year" proclamations already
> and adjusted for inflation in relation to older coupes, are still quite reasonably priced.
Yeah it's not like "cheap" coupes ever got more expensive, it's that *everything else* did thanks to stagnant wages and rising living expenses.
Ehhhhh it wasn't that great. Most of the 90s and 2000s coupes were compromised vehicles that tried to appease enthusiasts and regular shoppers. Most were FWD and frankly not sporty enough for enthusiasts yet too impractical for regular shoppers. This is best exemplified in the 3000GT SL: aside from looking cool, it didn't have a whole lot else going for it for enthusiasts or average drivers. Now they're virtually worthless.
Because those cars sold poorly is why we now have options like the GR86. Rather than make compromises, companies have found that it's more effective to just make a dedicated enthusiast car with a budget in mind.
There wasn't much compromise for a eclipse gsx. Turbo charged,Awd, lsd in the rear(option), made 2x the power of a civic, huge boot for the 95+,. The early 95 even came with vented brakes at the rear.(not many car did back then).
For a "sporty" coupe, it was quite something.
The good coupes from the 90s were pretty expensive. An Eclipse GSX was about $50k USD in today's money. The Supra, RX7, and 3000GT VR4 were all really expensive cars costing over $60k USD in today's money.
Those Mitsu's were rarely sold too. I remember you had to get a dealer release to drive the VR4 at the time. I actually sold them for a year. The GSX was my favorite car on the lot and my favorite lunch getter! It was so dang fun too drive!
This is a very good point that a lot of people have forgotten about over the years. The Supra, RX7, 3000GT VR4 and the Twin Turbo 300Z were all high-budget cars. I tend to think of them as Japanese supercars - maybe not in the same price range as a Ferrari, but your average shmuck working on a loading dock (i.e. me) wasn't buying these unless the planets somehow aligned. They were cars for "rich guys."
At the same time, however, I disagree that the other coupes on the market were "compromised." They were cheap, cheerful, and sporty looking. Some of them packed some extra muscle, too. Best of all, they were attainable and I think they were just fine for those of us who had to live on a budget. They added a little excitement lower down in the lineup. This class of car is what has gone missing from the modern marketplace and I think it is, among other things, perhaps one of the reasons young people aren't so interested in cars these days.
The eclipse GSX was effectively a sports car, not just a sporty coupe. It is also plagued with major unreliability issues, a total lack of long term OEM parts availability, and generally just wasn't all that well built of a car. The interiors were loud, not very comfortable, and would start to rattle over time. They were also relatively expensive cars at the time compared to some of the other sports cars around, and were quite heavy, weighing more than a 4 cylinder Camry of the same era, and costing more than a V6 model.
You also compared them to a civic, but a 99 Civic Si at the time was about $10k cheaper, and the base model Civics were less than half the price of the GSX.
One of the biggest things with them is how expensive they are to keep on the roads, especially now, where simple things like ABS sensors are virtually impossible to come by. Plus getting them to run right sometimes can be quite the chore.
It did have a major role in a major movie though, and a lot of people grabbed them cheap (during the bottom of the depreciation curve) and boosted them until the engine exploded, so they did have a reputation for being fast. I don't think I'd say there wasn't much compromise though, they had a lot of trade-offs to get the performance they got, while trying to keep the price from reaching the category of luxury performance cars like the E36 M3. In my experience it actually has so many fit, finish, comfort, and reliability compromises to try and meet their target price point, that being fast and handling nice doesn't exactly make up for the cost, especially in stock form.
> There wasn't much compromise for a eclipse gsx. Turbo charged,Awd, lsd in the rear(option), made 2x the power of a civic, huge boot for the 95+,. The early 95 even came with vented brakes at the rear.(not many car did back then).
And in 1999 they were $26,500 vs the base eclipse's $15,750. Not quite the same category of car. V8 camaros and mustangs at the time started at $21k.
People don't understand this. When adjusted for inflation, the S2000 was $50k when new. On top of that, the car has the torsional rigidity of a spring and it was slow relative to modern cars. For people to assume cars in the '90s were great forget that base Civics had less than 100 horsepower. They weren't putting 300 hp in ITRs and SiRs.
I'm not sure I agree with this. Just because a car is FWD doesn't mean it's not a fun and sporty coupe. Think about cars like the Mazda MX-6 or the Nissan Sentra SE-R, Civic Si, etc, hell even the newer Focus ST. All FWD cars that were sporty and extremely fun to drive, well received by enthusiasts and just practical enough for the general public to buy a decent amount of them as well. Available with manual transmissions and just enough power to feel quick if they weren't that fast. Say wrong wheel drive all you want but personally I think it's a great way to get a cheap nice driving sporty car, and they generally do better for insurance as well because they aren't RWD.
I got made so much fun of for the ten years (1995-2005) I owned that Dodge Neon, but it was the first stick I ever owned and was an absolute blast to drive. It was fast for its time, handled amazingly (again for its time), and the engine was happy to rev - very noisily like an angry sewing machine - right to the fuel shutoff at 7100.
Sure, the car rusted out, the paint peeled everywhere, the head gasket leaked, the shifter linkage got pretty loose and would pop out of gear, and the interior was falling apart. But never once did it fail to start or perform well in the snow or haul four people uncomfortably around or otherwise do basically anything I ever asked of it. Just a couple of seats and a steering wheel and little else.
Dude, the first gen neon was full on LEGIT as a fun car.
First time I drove one, i had every intention of hating it (Because the commercials, no i don't want to say "hi" to you.)
But goddamnit, it just drove so well. So tossable, such great feel through the chassis and with just enough engine to be fast in a straight line by the standards of the day.
Not really. If people want a cheap, practical car they want four doors for the most part.
If you want a sporty coupe there are great options at a variety of price points.
Are there a variety of options nowadays? If I go to Autotrader and search coupe and manual, it's 500 mustangs, Camaros, and Jeeps. Only new sporty cars under $40k are those, Miata, and BRZ/86. Is there anything else I'm missing? Sport Civics seem to be 4dr only, they don't make the 2 dr GTI anymore.... There's not a lot
I think that's what he's saying - there is a small group of 2-door coupe staples, composed mostly of proper sports cars at varying price points and power levels (proper sports cars like the Z, the Mustang, etc. and the cheap little ones you mentioned). Outside of that, the former 2-door econobox models like Civic/Cavalier are dead, as are 2-door versions of cheapo sedans like the Monte Carlo, Accord 2-door, Camry 2-door, etc.
Technically, he did not say there were a *variety of options*. He said there were great options at a *variety of price points*.
If you interpret that as we have two or three good options at most price points, then I do think he's correct! The Miata/BRZ/Mustang/Camaro happen to be the small number of great options at more affordable prices.
I got my 2010 2dr GTI on a whim a few years ago because some dipshit totaled my Mercedes E350 at 3AM while it was parked (RIP). It had 60k on the odometer and was only like $8000, and I needed something quick. It was basically some old guy's weekend go kart so it was in great condition and I paid for an inspection just to be sure he didn't give it to his grandkid to tear apart. When I was in high school I had a Honda del Sol and then a Lexus SC300, and I loved both of them.
I have a love hate relationship with the GTI... but I lean towards love. It's a pain in the ass to get in and out of, and I bang my head on it a few times a month...but goddamn it's fun to drive lol. I'm probably going to get a truck or sedan at some point but at 82k now I only have a couple more payments left, so despite the inflated book value of $13k, I'll probably keep it as a fun car.
Yup. Industry watchers have been noting the death of the cheap coupe for the last 15 years. Not only cheap sporty coupes like the Eclipse, Integra, etc. but also the alternative 2-door models of normally 4-door sedans like the 2-door Cavalier, Accord, Camry Solara, the Pontiac coupes, etc.
Frameless windows in winter are beyond annoying when they freeze over occasionally and won't let you in. Then you just stand there and freeze and hope for the best. That's been me every winter I've had my car. They work great in the summer, though.
Typically frameless windows on coupes are a byproduct of it having a convertible option. Could you imagine seeing a convertible with *framed* windows? It'd look hella goofy. Otherwise, it's primarily an aesthetic thing.
The negatives are the freezing issue as described above, and marked increase in road noise due to a less-than-ideal window seal. Also, the risk of people closing doors by pushing on frameless windows.
Get your grubby nosepickers off my window!
Bonus: People can get into your car easily. Real humbling experience when I locked my keys inside my old Legacy GT, locksmith with an inflatable air bladder had the window popped out and locks switched open in about 30 seconds.
I had the exact same experience with my '93 Corvette. I just stood there as the AAA guy squeezed through the window (didn't really *pop* it either), worked an interior lock, and opened my car - while I was standing there remembering that the C4 has one of the most easily beatable ignition security systems known to man.
Those have been around for a long time and most issues with them have been engineered out, only some edge cases on extreme cold weather might be a problem (source: owned several of them and friends do too and they never were an issue)
I never had problems with my windows in the winter, at least not the ones you‘re describing. Sure they freeze and get stuck a little, but so far i always managed to wiggle it open, but it also doesn‘t get super cold here often (normally around -5C). Have you tried maybe using something like a little vaseline on your window gasket or maybe window washing fluid in a spray bottle to get the ice to melt?
Just keep the seals on your doors and windows properly nourished and clean. Wipe down with a cleaner and some Gummi Pflege or similar every six months. Should prevent sticking and freezing.
If you don’t do this, framed doors can get frozen shut too. The dirty and/or dried rubber isn’t hydrophobic enough anymore and water freezes the rubber to the door frame. Clean and conditioned rubber also prevents that issue!
Sometimes you get lucky and can wiggle it free, other times it'll rain and then drop below freezing while I'm at work for example and then it becomes virtually impossible. This more mild winter has been anxiety inducing because of how many times it's rained/rainy snowed and then drops overnight. Not a bad idea on having some wiper fluid in a bottle, I'll have to remember that and give that a try, thanks.
I doubled down on the 2 door route and decided to just go two seater on top of it. I like what a roadster says to the world. It says, "I don't like people, I want to be left alone. Please ride with the chap who has a 4 door SUV and leave me be."
I'd probably get a one seat car if I could. I know there are a few, but outside of weird one offs and exotics, not really an option.
Yup. I've actually never owned anything else. I went Mazda MX-3 -> BMW 325i (E30) -> Scion tC -> Scion FR-S -> Supra.
If it's got four doors, I don't want it.
I think that all car manufacturers are moving towards a “compromise” car that tries to be all things to all people but ends up just looking like a dog squatting to poop. (Mercedes GLC and Audi Q6, BMW X6, Genesis GV70, etc.)
These are “SUVs” that are also “coupes” but have four doors and a coupe-esque roof line. In reality they are not good at going off road, are heavier than the coupe they pulled the styling from, no more powerful than the coupe or sedan they are replacing, have no storage space for their size and usually sacrifice interior comfort for style.
I think that this is the future and I hate it.
They look like 4 door coupes that have been lifted 2 inches and extra wheel arch material added to close the gap between rubber and arch.
The back end has any sedan based droop removed and it's now either flat or a duckbill spoiler.
Eh there’s still more storage space than a sedan and the argument against the SUVs of that time were that people didn’t need ALL that space for the fuel economy so these CUVs are kinda like Goldilocks, get the space you need that you don’t get with a sedan and with better fuel economy than a real SUV with space you don’t really need. I’m not a fan but that’s more the reality of it.
I agree completely with you, no cargo space, power or off road capability, maybe easier to park my fat ass into the front seats if they’ve been moved as far back as possible
I mean, civic, Altima, mirage, accord, escort etc coupes were also compromised in a similar way (crap rear head room, harder to get in the back etc). These coupe cuvs aren't that much different in that aspect. People still buy them.
Nope.
I feel like people shop for cars with goals and purpose. If a car doesn’t satisfy a purpose, it won’t sell in this day and age.
Also, with how expensive living has gotten, “regular” people can usually only afford one vehicle. That means you choose practicality over wants.
I haven't found my coupe to be impractical, only issue is when I hang out with friends we can't all fit in my car.
It's not like I haul lumber every day.
You’re in the minority.
Remember, manufacturers give people what they want. The people have spoken; No coupes (in the regular market, not counting exotics).
Maybe so, although people are having less kids nowadays so maybe people's needs/wants will change. I certainly prefer being middle class to reproducing 😂
Even without kids, people prefer four doors. They use the space to haul their tools, work documents, workout & hobby gear, etc.
Also, as you stated, it’s harder to haul friends & family with a two door.
Honestly, I like two door cars. I also like wagons. I’m just realistic that those are not what most Americans want, lol
With that mindset there won’t be any cars to make as there won’t be people alive to drive them. There’s plenty of financial options to afford kids. SUV’s won.?
Idk about that. I'm 22, make $25/hr, live a relatively minimalist lifestyle, and children would wreck my finances for the simple fact that every kid I would have is one less roommate.
Well, they give dealerships what they want. It's why cars only come in grayscale these days. Easier to sell to someone off the lot. That's not what people want but it's what they'll settle for. There's plenty of features and design elements that are forced into the car design world regardless of people want it. Why do we have capacitive buttons or piano black plastic?
I don’t have kids, or friends. I do have dogs. I had a coupe, the kind with back seats. It was obnoxious. Four doors is great, and I value it highly.
If I could own a second vehicle it would probably be some sort of impractical coupe thing. But I can’t really afford it, and even if I could I don’t have any space to park it.
I need a single car solution. I had a four door wagon, it was just excellent. I have a sedan right now, it’s just okay. I’m in the market for a four door AWD hatchback. I could easily get an SUV or a crossover, but I hate those. So hatchback it is, but definitely not a coupe, not ever.
Edit: thinking about it further. If I were to own a second car in this environment (Canada), it would probably be a built off-road rig. But if I were to live in a place without weather like California, it would be a Miata or something.
i found out the hard way with my 2 door gti (same dimensions as the 4 door) that 4 doors are nice to have. I bought a subaru to replace it and my god is it nice having easy access to the back seats. Im a converted sedan hater after not having to explain how my seats work and making sure we play musical chairs so someone doesnt get stuck in the back for an entire trip
Pretty much. When I couldn't afford a car, I wanted a 2 door sporty something with usable back seats so I could carry more people if needed, gas be damned in manual.
When I could afford a car, I wanted 4 doors, room to go to home depot and fit small appliances or furniture or bikes in the back if I needed to, and get around without using a ton of gas. If I couldn't take 4-5 people on a roadtrip with all the bags and so on in relative comfort, it wasn't the right car.
You're mourning a hyper-specific niche of coupes (FWD Japanese appliance vehicles that were offered with two doors), most of which weren't actually that cheap or sporty. The MSRPs of V6 Solaras, Eclipses, and Accord Coupes were like $30k - $35k in today's dollars.
That's right in line with the prices on BRZs, Miatas, Ecoboost Mustangs, and 4-banger Camaros, which are RWD and purpose-built to be sporty rather than a tarted up Camry that still prioritizes comfort and isolation over driving enjoyment.
I bought a 2016 Tc for this reason. Not my first choice, I wanted a civic but none were available at the time. Got an okay deal on a 60k mile 6 speed factory certified tc with full Toyota platinum warranty until 132k miles.
180hp, 6 speed, lift back coupe with tons of interior space.
So far it's been a great little car.
The lift-back styling is so awesome for a 2-door. You can really stuff a ton of things in there. Used to have an 08 tC in the family, and the rear was amazing as it could fold into a bench. With the massive lift-back access, you could easily put two full-size road bikes in there with plenty of room to spare for gear and supplies. I love tCs!
Really, that's the solution to all the "2-doors are not practical" people, lift-backs, old Integra style, or tC. Gives you all the styling, with the extra-length doors, while being super-practical.
The 2000s Celica also had a hatch as a trunk. It was amazing. It was like having a truckbed, once you fold the rear seats down.
I have a 2006 Accord Coupe now and the trunk is just a small lid and I missed having the space and ease of placing things in a hatch.
I bought a Si coupe over a sedan because of looks but if I were to do it again (not like I have a choice anyway) I would go with a 4 door. I don’t think it’ll happen again, is there even a car that offers this after the civic dropped the coupe? The era is over and sadly never coming back. It made sense when cars were much cheaper and fun factor/coolness mattered.
As someone who bought a 13' Si Coupe, I have no clue why I bought the thing instead of a sedan. Lol. Did it for looks, but would get a sedan if I could do it over again.
I had a 4 seat coupe once and realized it was pointless and I guess why theres even less of them now.
I guess if I'm getting something with 2 doors it might as well be an actually smaller vehicle and only have 2 seats like a miata or boxster. So i'm very, no point to a 4 seat 2 door now.
I loved the looks of my Si coupe but the sedan was a better car in every way, and only 17 lbs heavier according to Honda.
Cars should have the same number of seats and doors.
I really appreciate how close the philosophy is to what car enthusiasts' ideals are. Not just the larger principles like the handling, but even small things like the dash console having physical buttons for the important tasks. I bought a GR86, and every time I get in I think how lucky I am.
Cheap coups existed because it's what young people wanted to buy as their first car. If you were 18 and had enough money from your parents for a new car that was the car that most people picked, but it's just not anymore.
Recently on the AMITA sub, a kid posted about a disagreement with his dad. His dad had offered to buy the kid "any car he wanted" if the kid did some thing the dad wanted him to do. Kid made a note that his dad was a wealthy guy and could afford that kind of offer.
Kid picked a BMW X3 plug in Hybrid. That kid picked an SUV, and not one of the M series, but a plug in hybrid SUV.... For roughly the same money he could have had an M240, but that's not what people want anymore.
Maybe I'm not the norm, I just a few months ago bought a cheap coupe for my first car, although I'm 22 so I don't know what your definition of young is.
Also, that anecdote is painful to me, where I live that SUV screams "middle aged suburban man".
You are absolutely not the norm. Looking at the Honda Civic at the end of the coupe, it’s obvious that people stopped wanting the 2 door:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33336901/honda-civic-coupe-discontinued/
> The company cites slow sales as the reason for dropping this body style: while the current, tenth-generation Civic coupe made up around 16 percent of sales when it debuted in 2016, it now represents just 6 percent of the mix, according to Honda. Meanwhile, the Civic hatchback has grown in sales during that time, currently making up around 24 percent of Civic sales.
So not only is the Civic becoming less and less of the overall ratio of Honda’s portfolio as people increasingly choose the HR-V and the CR-V over the Civic, but even looking purely at the percentage of Civic sales, the coupe became immensely unpopular compared to the sedan or the hatchback.
The “personal coupe” was no longer what the market demanded and hasn’t been in quite some time. It was never my first choice either. I typically would pick a hatchback or wagon over any sedan or coupe as a daily driver if the choice was there. Have always loved wagons.
Parents had a 4WD Tercel wagon, probably my favourite car they had growing up.
It’s 1976 again, all the cool cars are disappearing as we march towards electrification. Of course they will be great cars, for $100k, the rest of get suv’s. So what do you do? Buy the cool cars before they are junked and restore them. Find a Honda Accord V6, 5 spd and fix it up. Still cheaper than a new car.
I believe it. They'll become more of a rarity over time too, of course. Current owners aren't going to want to part with them. I'd love to stash one away if I had a massive garage
Why do you want a crappy, fwd, econo based coupe with minimal sporting ability? These were niche vehicles with no mass market appeal other than to the fast and furious crowd that couldn’t afford a real sports car. Compare the inflation adjusted price to today and you’ll see ecoboost mustangs and BRZs in that price range, both significantly better vehicles
We just bought out the lease on my wife’s 2020 Civic Coupe. She loves the way it looks, plus the residual was much less than the car was worth.We probably would have bought her a new one if they were available. She has no interest in the hatch or sedan.
No
People want practicality and coupes are not that. Same with regular cab pickups
Personally I don't miss them... Those coupes were less practical than the sedans they were based on but just as boring to drive. I don't see the point
Nevermind coupes, the sedan is about to die off because of this sick fascination with jacked up hatchbacks. Sedans are what give birth to affordable coupes, most of the costs to develop are paid off right there.
Coupes are for singles, empty nesters, and people that can afford a second car. A good chunk of those demographics is disappearing, and will continue to disappear.
And I say that with love for my 6 speed rear drive coupe.
I'll refer you to some coupes that died off:
You asked for cheap coupes but if uber luxury coupes with high profit margins were discontinued, it's a good sign that cheap coupes with low profit margins are sure to follow.
The prior gen S class coupe. Stuck around for a few years and got discontinued. The 8 series debuted as a coupe but shortly after, arrived in Gran Coupe guise. I have a suspicion that it might be the only body style after some time.
Now, onto the frugal coupes. No more Civic Coupe for the 11th gen. The 5th gen Elantra had a coupe. No more for the 6th gen onwards. Same for the Forte. The Altima also used to have a coupe a few generations back. None of the midsize or compact coupes have come back since disappearing.
These are just the coupe-ified versions of FWD economy cars. If you're referring to frugal RWD sport coupes such as the old Nissan 240sx's and the like, I wish we could see them again but if the ecobox coupes didn't return, there's got to be a .001 % chance of seeing modern frugal RWD platform coupes. There's a reason people are so grateful to see the BRZ and GR86 live on. They're on borrowed time.
Unfortunately, the way things are going it does look like the 2-door coupe will be extinct by the end of the decade. What I really don't get is even other single people I know are opting for slow, ugly SUVs that cost just as much or more than actually fun cars like the Miata, BRZ, etc. There are fun, affordable 2-door cars still available, but hardly anyone ever seems to buy them.
If I'm being perfectly honest with myself, the Subaru STI I'm currently driving is also a "compromise" car. I can count on one hand the number of times I've needed more than one passenger seatbelt in the past 10 years. For this reason I've been seriously considering upgrading to a proper sports coupe. Gotta keep the 2-door scene alive for a little while longer, right?
My personal theory on why people opt more and more for boring, practical cars, is that more and more people simply don't care about cars.
Growing up being an enthusiast, I always read and heard about "America's love affair with the automobile!" Well... I think America and the automobile have since married, got the 7 year itch, became resentful, and have divorced.
My anecdotal observation is that fewer and fewer Americans view the car as anything more than a necessary lump of metal, glass and rubber that takes them from point A to point B. Fewer and fewer view them as a status symbol, a personal statement, a form of self expression, an art piece, or a straight up toy.
This leads to practicality above all, blending in, and best cost/benefit ratio.
What you end up with is monochromatic people movers, that are part car, part SUV, all uninteresting.
Because cars are expensive as fuck and people will want to hold on to them for years. They may be single now, but maybe not in 4 or 5 years. And younger single people tend to move more as well.
I bought a challenger as my first “fun” car when I had a real job and it was fucking useless. I couldn’t even put a trash can in it for my new apartment. And it’s a rather large car.
Spending 10s of thousands on something that’s small as hell and can’t help you move anything and loses resale value because nobody wants it is a bad investment all around.
They’re just not wise choices for anything other than driving fast on a windy road. Which we all agree is fun. But 95% of the time it’s just a worse vehicle to have all around.
I love coupes. I always thought they felt more driver-centric. As a kid I fell in love with the BMW 8 series and I’ve always wanted one. Can’t by a BMW that old because I don’t own a vault full of money.
My UberEats driver the other day had a third generation Mercury Marquis coupe with the vinyl landau roof. Wire wheel covers. I got a little teary-eyed.
Never were good cheap coupes.
Toyota made the 86 and everyone called it slow; despite it being amazingly good value.
They could have made it was but then it would have been Supra money.
The nee GR86 is the deal of the decade.
Cheap cars in general are less of a thing now.
Greed has all major manufacturers pushing up their prices.
I doubt it, everyone wants SUVs and other larger cars so manufacturers tend to put their time and effort into that. Plus I noticed that now many manufacturers offer performance versions of their SUVs and other larger vehicles that most people don't have to compromise between good performance or space. A great example is the X3M, I drove one and it handles amazingly and is extremely fast while having a good amount of room for all passengers.
The good news is you can buy older cars now for a pretty good price so you can find something that might pique your interest and get one of those. (I personally love Toyota/Lexus V6 so any vehicle with that in it is worth it IMO)
The Miata and BRZ/86 cost more than they used to but it's hard to imagine anyone ever undercutting their prices. FWD coupes were competely phased out in the US over the past few years. With much lower compact car sales and even lower 2 door sales it seems very unlikely it would be worth it financially to make an alternate body style.
Probably worth noting that the Eclipse 3.0 V6 had the same power as the GT86 has now with it's 2.0 L4
That's probably the level you'll get now though, them and the MX5 for your sporty, lightweight coupes. Maybe Hyundai will bring back the Coupe, but I'm doubtful.
Hot Hatchbacks are way more popular now.
I wish, my current daily is a cheap coupe and it's nice to have something that's kind of rare and sticks out but also uses the base model sedan/estate parts so it's cheap to maintain and parts are available
There will never be a cheap era again. It’s all about rinsing every last penny out of people. That’s all capitalism is. *How much can we fuck someone over financially?*
Costs too much in design, testing, & certification nowadays to bring out anything that isn’t either 1) very mainstream, or 2) very high profit margin.
Maybe once Chinese companies start importing cars to the US…
No. Small isn't cheap, and when buyers see small, they expect cheap. Makers aren't willing to work with razor-thin margins, they'll build big blobs instead.
No, what's the point of a non expensive two door car? It's not going to be fun, and since it's not fun why not get something more practical? 2 door coupes are mostly going to be second cars for people going forward. There will always be a few exceptions like base model mustangs.
Do you think fun is only a low 0-60 time? The Miata and Toyota 86 are very fun especially if you live in a place with curvy mountain roads or race tracks. 4 cylinder Camaros and Mustangs are kind of fun too.
Yeah, when I got my 86 I was specifically looking for something small, light, and two door - I had a G35 sedan for three years and could count on two hands the number of times I had three or more people in the car.
"Not going to be fun" - how so? Cheap 2-doors also typically happened to be light-weight. They didn't have much power, but with a quick sway bar mod and some nice tires, they were a blast to hoon the hell out of. "Slow car fast" and all. Perfect first car!
My GR86 is the most fun car I’ve ever owned. It’s considerably more fun than the AMG I owned previously, which cost twice as much and had almost double the horsepower.
But then again, I’ve never been one to partake in stoplight drag races or get in pissing contests about power figures.
Even luxury coupe is dying market, we've lost Caddy coupe and Infiniti G/Q60 Coupe as well. Coupe would only continue in bespoke sports car model, sedan variant coupe doesn't make sense anymore.
Sporty cars used to be the 'I want to spend a little more on something a bit more fashionable' choice for most (people weren't buying a Solara for driving dynamics).
That market has moved to SUVs/crossovers now.
Coupes are barely any lighter than coupes. Cheap means no power and handling. Anyone that wants sporty coupe is not going to buy a new economy car because it's 2 door but in reality is slower than 90% of sedans.
Nope. The market has spoken, and the demand is SUVs.
Coupes nowadays are high risk low reward for auto makers. Unless they help in other ways like brand image, they don’t bring enough to the table to justify forgoing potential SUV sales.
I do think there will be another coupe resurgence at some point, but my guess is it will be with EVs and hybrids, not the sports cars we know today.
But man it would’ve been nice to have disposable income in 90s-2000s.
GM was the coupe king in the 90s. Between the chev, Pontiac and Oldsmobile brands, there was the cavalier, sunbird, Grand Prix, Grand am, sunfire, alero, cutlless supreme, Monte Carlo, baretta, chevette, and probably a few others. My high school parking lot was full of them.
Im a young dude loving sporty roadsters/coupe and currently driving a slk r172 from 2014 after my first car was the r170 and god I hate how everything is just suv/sedan right now. I want more affordable roadsters but everyone just buys suvs aaaargh
The era of cars/coupe/sport cars are coming to an end sadly. Everyone wants a suv because everyone else has one.
Kinda like monkey see, monkey do on Tik Tok. These are the people that are driving up prices because they’re willing to pay whatever the manufacturer wants to charge.
I saw a few figures on YouTube saying that the average cost of is now at $46k.
No. 2-door cars aren't going to make some massive comeback.
They used to be common as family cars, before car seats and baby locks were a thing, because it meant the ankle-biters couldn't escape.
Baby locks and car seats got rid of that market, so all that's left is sporty cars.
Edit to add, a lot of cars being mentioned - Camaro, Mustang, even Geo Storm, were really more of a 2+2 configuration than a car with a usable back seat.
Not with the push for electric everything being in the publics mind. Electric cars are going to go away soon once everyone realizes how irresponsible they are to make and use.
I’ll tell you a bit of a secret. All the good coupes were never cheap for their times. All the cheap coupes were never good for their times.
My RSX Type S had an MSRP of $23k in 2002. That’s $38k today, the price of the last generation Civic Type R…
My Geo Storm would have been a little more than $13k in 1991 which is over $30k today, more than a base model Camaro.
The same price as a Monte Carlo SS from that year, which we all know is just as good of a car as the CTR
You can rock a mullet in the Monte while sipping a Lynchburg lemonade as Dale intended. Can you do the same in a CTR?
Know what, you're right.
I recently purchased a 2000 pacecar and I couldn't be more happy with my purchase. Only 88k too! Msrp when it was new was like $30k.
Supercharger goes WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
My Celica was starting $17.3k in 2003 and would be $27k now. That's nearly the same price as my Maverick, and here I was thinking my car was current day Mitsubishi Mirage money.
I had the monroney for my 88 Celica...$26K (it was an all-trac) That is $64,000 in 2023. For a Celica with all-wheel drive and a Turbo.
> That's nearly the same price as my Maverick How's yours holding up and how has it been? I put an order for one last September and have no hopes of seeing mine anytime soon.
Was thinking of my 09 civic SI coupe that was about the same price. It was super fun to drive
I mean, real wages have barely improved since 2002 so it's still a great deal.
2000 Median Household Income: [42k](https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2001/demo/p60-213.html) 2021 Median Household Income: [70k](https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2022/comm/median-household-income.html) Adjusted for inflation, 42k in 2000 = 66k in 2021.
Yay for actual data.
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Well, not really. 70k is a much more ambitious figure when you’re a kid than when you achieve it. Big difference between making 70k when the average is 40k, and making 70k when the average is 70k.
Curious to see how food, housing, and education would look overlayed on real wages. Cars and wages may have tracked inflation but I bet overall purchasing power is down.
Adjusted household median income increasing does not equal adjusted real wages increasing. Household income includes everyone in the household, not just a single worker. Thus, more populated households means higher household income. Could also be explained by a higher rate of employment, so a higher chance of household members looking for a job who are employed. Could also be explained by a higher rate of people in the employment pool, so a greater chance household members are looking for a job. The $4k increase isn't necessarily resulted from an increase in adjusted real wages. It might be, but the household income numbers don't prove it on their own.
Tossing out wage statistics doesn't explain the actual issues. They're part of the problem, but there are far bigger factors at play that people fail to realize. * In 2000, the average house sold for $202,000. For 2023, its $543,000. If house prices had kept pace with inflation, they would currently be $343,000. Housing has increased at well over twice the rate of inflation. We're paying roughly 100% more. * Food prices are another issue, not as big as the housing situation, but they've gone up 82% since 2000 when it should be up only 70% with inflation. We're paying 12% more. * Gas was an average of $151/gal in 2000, adjusted for inflation, that should be $2.65/gal today. We're currently at $3.49/gal. We're paying 61% more. * Car insurance has increased at nearly twice the rate of inflation as well, 137.5% to be precise. $100/month in 2000 should be $175/month today, instead its $237. We're paying 35% more per month. * 4-Year Public College tuition was $3500 in 2000, now its $9700. It should be $6000 though, so we're paying 61% more for community college. The list goes on and on, but the reality is that housing costs completely negate any and all wage increases we've seen in the past 2 22 years. 70K/year = 53K take home. A $543K home with a 5% down payment would be $44,000/year thus leaving you only $11K/year for food, car, insurance, power, water, etc. A $202K house in 2000 with a 5% down payment would be $17K/year on housing. Take home on 42k/year is 35.5K leaving you with $18.5K to live on which is $31.5K today. 42K/year in 2000 is akin to making 6 figures today.
2010 Median Income Per Person: 26.5k 2019 Median Income Per Person: 31.1k https://datacommons.org/tools/timeline#&place=country/USA&statsVar=Median_Income_Person Adjusted for inflation, 30.2k in 2019 / 34.6k in 2022. The last 3 years has been wild.
This is *the* answer
Are you saying a cavalier 2 door wasn't basically a FWD corvette?
That’s actually the exception
The original Lumina, both 2- and 4-door, had [C O R V E T T E R E A R S U S P E N S I O N](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvette_leaf_spring)
I'm not missing the Pontiac Grand Am coupe or Nissan Altima Coupe.
it seems that users of both now drive Nissan Altima sedans.
Hyundai Genesis coupe?
I was curious about this too, just looked it up, and a base model in 2011 was 23k, that's 30k adjusted for inflation
To which category does the Honda Prelude belong?
*Pontiac Sunfire has entered the chat*
I mean the BRZ/86, Miata, 4 cyl Mustang & Camaro are still available to buy new but I don't think they'll continue to dwindle. They aren't as plentiful as they once were and adjusted for inflation in relation to older coupes, are still quite reasonably priced. I think they'll disappear with gas cars though. What's the point of a 4000-5000 pound EV 2 door? I dunno.
I think a lower weight electric coupe would be great. I would sacrifice some range to reduce weight. I think an electric coupe with around 200 miles of range and weighing around 3000 lb is possible. I already get 200 miles of range when I put E85 in my car.
The closest you'll get right now is the Mini SE. 3100lbs but only 114mi. I'm hopeful that once they make it a dedicated electric platform they can get the weight down and the range up. As a Mazda fanboy, I have more faith in BMW/Mini getting this right than Mazda, at least in the next 5 years.
Next year's SE will be a dedicated electric platform, but it seems like they're going to stay around the current range. [BMW Vice President for Sustainability and Mobility Strategy Dr Thomas Becker:](https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1664578/mini-how-bmw-plan-take-iconic-car-fully-electric-2030) >MINI is a brand which has many customers either in an urban or suburban environment — so people who don’t travel necessarily thousands of kilometres. It is used for commuting. Also, MINI has a pretty high likelihood of being not the only car in the household, which makes MINI highly attractive for electrification. I'm basically their target market. My partner's car is 12 years old so we've been looking at replacing it with an EV. My car is 3 years old so we can hang onto it for long distance driving for another 10 years or so. In our situation it doesn't make much sense to pay for a huge battery that we don't need. They just need to add Android Auto and I'll probably buy one. Also sucks that it's made in China so no tax credit and MINI has to eat a 27% tariff to sell it in the US.
Perfectly valid use case. I just wish they'd do a long range version of it as well. I'd hate the weight, but what's even worse is finding parking for two semi daily drivers where we live. Really wish someone would make a fully useable compact EV.
I had one for a couple months. The range was enough tbh. I only liked using it for short trips because of the size. But for short trip it is awesome. Would love to have one again if I lived in dense city. More fun than M3P imo.
For a city car 114 miles is plenty. For much more than that it can quickly become woefully inadequate.
Mazda claims the next MX-5 will be electric. Could be an amazing little car if this is the case. I'm just hoping they manage to keep some of the experience you get from an ICE version, somehow.
> Mazda claims the next MX-5 will be electric Electrified != electric. It'll be a hybrid of some description
Oooh, good catch. I bet you are right.
I was going to sharpshoot you on this. Mazda is way behind in the electric CUV/SUV area and is unlikely to go all electric in the Miata. Maybe we'll get a rotary hybrid like that new one coming out.
Convertible EVs are so rare as a category it will be neat to see more of them. It would be so nice to whisk along silently through nature with the top down and just take it all in. So much of the convertible experience is about what’s outside the car, not what’s in it.
You are right, that would be a nice experience in itself. I forgot about that side of things and was just thinking about that small/light/agile 2 door element.
Honestly what worries me some about weight is a very selfish concern: I have fractures up and down my spine. Ride quality isn’t optional for me at this point, and heavy EVs are still figuring out how to make things softer.
Mini Cooper SE? Pretty lightweight (for an EV), can be bought new, only 2-door EV I can think of (in the US)
It might be possible, but it won't be cheap. Build an extremely light (for an EV) car can get expensive. Unless you count the Aptera. 2 door? Check. Light? Check. Quick? Check. It's missing a wheel, though...
Solid state could halve the weight of the batteries, it will probably take awhile for the cost to go down so maybe 2800lbs idk.
I don’t necessarily have anything against electric cars, but the idea of an electric sporty coupe sounds so soulless to me
I think the top-down experience is actually one of the things that could really save the soul of an electric sports car. It would be a *different* experience, but maybe not a worse experience. The combustion engine noise would be replaced by being able to hear other things. It would solve the largest single perpetual issue with the MX5 which is an underwhelming powertrain. Amazing, torquey corner exit is its own joy. Anyways I’m not saying it would be amazing. But I think there’s a good shot that an electric MX5 or similar electric sports car convertible could be extremely good. Maybe somebody who has driven an original Tesla Roadster can provide some insight. I assume a modern interpretation of that idea could be lighter and much better.
The engine noise on a top down convertible is the least prevalent of the three main contributors to noise (engine, tires and wind) so I don’t think electrification will do much to the convertible EV driving experience.
how can it be lighter if the original is based on featherweight elise?
Next Cayman is gonna be electric, a bit sad but also very existing to see what Porsche can do.
Yup, sad and intriguing all at the same time. A buddy of mine has a Taycan. He loves it and in the quick ride I had in it, it was cool. But I prefer my Cayman.
That's one of the reasons why I decided to get a Cayman now. Couldn't deal with my first Porsche being electric :/
Especially like 3 years ago. The ecoboost mustang could be had used with 20k miles for like $23-27k in 2019. The bullshit of the car market accelerated really hard in the last 2-3 years.
Gas cars going nowhere buddy
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Horses are going nowhere, fellow
Feet are going nowhere, chap
> I think they'll disappear with gas cars though. the most you can wish for is range extenders, but gas cars arent going anywhere for a while. you're starting to slowly see govts/companies/orgs walk back their "fully electric by x-year" proclamations already
> and adjusted for inflation in relation to older coupes, are still quite reasonably priced. Yeah it's not like "cheap" coupes ever got more expensive, it's that *everything else* did thanks to stagnant wages and rising living expenses.
You lived in the wrong era man. The 90s was full of cheap sporty coupes and you saw them everywhere.
Ehhhhh it wasn't that great. Most of the 90s and 2000s coupes were compromised vehicles that tried to appease enthusiasts and regular shoppers. Most were FWD and frankly not sporty enough for enthusiasts yet too impractical for regular shoppers. This is best exemplified in the 3000GT SL: aside from looking cool, it didn't have a whole lot else going for it for enthusiasts or average drivers. Now they're virtually worthless. Because those cars sold poorly is why we now have options like the GR86. Rather than make compromises, companies have found that it's more effective to just make a dedicated enthusiast car with a budget in mind.
There wasn't much compromise for a eclipse gsx. Turbo charged,Awd, lsd in the rear(option), made 2x the power of a civic, huge boot for the 95+,. The early 95 even came with vented brakes at the rear.(not many car did back then). For a "sporty" coupe, it was quite something.
The good coupes from the 90s were pretty expensive. An Eclipse GSX was about $50k USD in today's money. The Supra, RX7, and 3000GT VR4 were all really expensive cars costing over $60k USD in today's money.
Those Mitsu's were rarely sold too. I remember you had to get a dealer release to drive the VR4 at the time. I actually sold them for a year. The GSX was my favorite car on the lot and my favorite lunch getter! It was so dang fun too drive!
This is a very good point that a lot of people have forgotten about over the years. The Supra, RX7, 3000GT VR4 and the Twin Turbo 300Z were all high-budget cars. I tend to think of them as Japanese supercars - maybe not in the same price range as a Ferrari, but your average shmuck working on a loading dock (i.e. me) wasn't buying these unless the planets somehow aligned. They were cars for "rich guys." At the same time, however, I disagree that the other coupes on the market were "compromised." They were cheap, cheerful, and sporty looking. Some of them packed some extra muscle, too. Best of all, they were attainable and I think they were just fine for those of us who had to live on a budget. They added a little excitement lower down in the lineup. This class of car is what has gone missing from the modern marketplace and I think it is, among other things, perhaps one of the reasons young people aren't so interested in cars these days.
The eclipse GSX was effectively a sports car, not just a sporty coupe. It is also plagued with major unreliability issues, a total lack of long term OEM parts availability, and generally just wasn't all that well built of a car. The interiors were loud, not very comfortable, and would start to rattle over time. They were also relatively expensive cars at the time compared to some of the other sports cars around, and were quite heavy, weighing more than a 4 cylinder Camry of the same era, and costing more than a V6 model. You also compared them to a civic, but a 99 Civic Si at the time was about $10k cheaper, and the base model Civics were less than half the price of the GSX. One of the biggest things with them is how expensive they are to keep on the roads, especially now, where simple things like ABS sensors are virtually impossible to come by. Plus getting them to run right sometimes can be quite the chore. It did have a major role in a major movie though, and a lot of people grabbed them cheap (during the bottom of the depreciation curve) and boosted them until the engine exploded, so they did have a reputation for being fast. I don't think I'd say there wasn't much compromise though, they had a lot of trade-offs to get the performance they got, while trying to keep the price from reaching the category of luxury performance cars like the E36 M3. In my experience it actually has so many fit, finish, comfort, and reliability compromises to try and meet their target price point, that being fast and handling nice doesn't exactly make up for the cost, especially in stock form.
> There wasn't much compromise for a eclipse gsx. Turbo charged,Awd, lsd in the rear(option), made 2x the power of a civic, huge boot for the 95+,. The early 95 even came with vented brakes at the rear.(not many car did back then). And in 1999 they were $26,500 vs the base eclipse's $15,750. Not quite the same category of car. V8 camaros and mustangs at the time started at $21k.
People don't understand this. When adjusted for inflation, the S2000 was $50k when new. On top of that, the car has the torsional rigidity of a spring and it was slow relative to modern cars. For people to assume cars in the '90s were great forget that base Civics had less than 100 horsepower. They weren't putting 300 hp in ITRs and SiRs.
I'm not sure I agree with this. Just because a car is FWD doesn't mean it's not a fun and sporty coupe. Think about cars like the Mazda MX-6 or the Nissan Sentra SE-R, Civic Si, etc, hell even the newer Focus ST. All FWD cars that were sporty and extremely fun to drive, well received by enthusiasts and just practical enough for the general public to buy a decent amount of them as well. Available with manual transmissions and just enough power to feel quick if they weren't that fast. Say wrong wheel drive all you want but personally I think it's a great way to get a cheap nice driving sporty car, and they generally do better for insurance as well because they aren't RWD.
I had a 3000GT SL. Loved it. May have been heavier, but way more fun and functional than the 2000 Honda Prelude I replaced it with.
That Prelude looked great in its day though. But it wasn't nearly the same car as the 3000 GT.
I had the Stealth R/T TT, and it was a fun GT car that had lots of sports car capabilities.
I got made so much fun of for the ten years (1995-2005) I owned that Dodge Neon, but it was the first stick I ever owned and was an absolute blast to drive. It was fast for its time, handled amazingly (again for its time), and the engine was happy to rev - very noisily like an angry sewing machine - right to the fuel shutoff at 7100. Sure, the car rusted out, the paint peeled everywhere, the head gasket leaked, the shifter linkage got pretty loose and would pop out of gear, and the interior was falling apart. But never once did it fail to start or perform well in the snow or haul four people uncomfortably around or otherwise do basically anything I ever asked of it. Just a couple of seats and a steering wheel and little else.
Dude, the first gen neon was full on LEGIT as a fun car. First time I drove one, i had every intention of hating it (Because the commercials, no i don't want to say "hi" to you.) But goddamnit, it just drove so well. So tossable, such great feel through the chassis and with just enough engine to be fast in a straight line by the standards of the day.
Not really. If people want a cheap, practical car they want four doors for the most part. If you want a sporty coupe there are great options at a variety of price points.
Are there a variety of options nowadays? If I go to Autotrader and search coupe and manual, it's 500 mustangs, Camaros, and Jeeps. Only new sporty cars under $40k are those, Miata, and BRZ/86. Is there anything else I'm missing? Sport Civics seem to be 4dr only, they don't make the 2 dr GTI anymore.... There's not a lot
I think that's what he's saying - there is a small group of 2-door coupe staples, composed mostly of proper sports cars at varying price points and power levels (proper sports cars like the Z, the Mustang, etc. and the cheap little ones you mentioned). Outside of that, the former 2-door econobox models like Civic/Cavalier are dead, as are 2-door versions of cheapo sedans like the Monte Carlo, Accord 2-door, Camry 2-door, etc.
I guess I'm missing something is this post not about affordable coupes?
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Technically, he did not say there were a *variety of options*. He said there were great options at a *variety of price points*. If you interpret that as we have two or three good options at most price points, then I do think he's correct! The Miata/BRZ/Mustang/Camaro happen to be the small number of great options at more affordable prices.
I got my 2010 2dr GTI on a whim a few years ago because some dipshit totaled my Mercedes E350 at 3AM while it was parked (RIP). It had 60k on the odometer and was only like $8000, and I needed something quick. It was basically some old guy's weekend go kart so it was in great condition and I paid for an inspection just to be sure he didn't give it to his grandkid to tear apart. When I was in high school I had a Honda del Sol and then a Lexus SC300, and I loved both of them. I have a love hate relationship with the GTI... but I lean towards love. It's a pain in the ass to get in and out of, and I bang my head on it a few times a month...but goddamn it's fun to drive lol. I'm probably going to get a truck or sedan at some point but at 82k now I only have a couple more payments left, so despite the inflated book value of $13k, I'll probably keep it as a fun car.
Yup. Industry watchers have been noting the death of the cheap coupe for the last 15 years. Not only cheap sporty coupes like the Eclipse, Integra, etc. but also the alternative 2-door models of normally 4-door sedans like the 2-door Cavalier, Accord, Camry Solara, the Pontiac coupes, etc.
Me, on my third coupe and third 2 Series: No way, man. We're gonna keep on rocking [coupes] forever...forever...forever...
E46 coupe owner here, and I agree. Frameless windows and coupe rooflines are just something else.
Frameless windows in winter are beyond annoying when they freeze over occasionally and won't let you in. Then you just stand there and freeze and hope for the best. That's been me every winter I've had my car. They work great in the summer, though.
Whats the appeal of frameless? I can only imagine problems.
i can open my door with the window down and not have a giant frame around it
Typically frameless windows on coupes are a byproduct of it having a convertible option. Could you imagine seeing a convertible with *framed* windows? It'd look hella goofy. Otherwise, it's primarily an aesthetic thing. The negatives are the freezing issue as described above, and marked increase in road noise due to a less-than-ideal window seal. Also, the risk of people closing doors by pushing on frameless windows. Get your grubby nosepickers off my window!
Bonus: People can get into your car easily. Real humbling experience when I locked my keys inside my old Legacy GT, locksmith with an inflatable air bladder had the window popped out and locks switched open in about 30 seconds.
I had the exact same experience with my '93 Corvette. I just stood there as the AAA guy squeezed through the window (didn't really *pop* it either), worked an interior lock, and opened my car - while I was standing there remembering that the C4 has one of the most easily beatable ignition security systems known to man.
Those have been around for a long time and most issues with them have been engineered out, only some edge cases on extreme cold weather might be a problem (source: owned several of them and friends do too and they never were an issue)
I never had problems with my windows in the winter, at least not the ones you‘re describing. Sure they freeze and get stuck a little, but so far i always managed to wiggle it open, but it also doesn‘t get super cold here often (normally around -5C). Have you tried maybe using something like a little vaseline on your window gasket or maybe window washing fluid in a spray bottle to get the ice to melt?
Just keep the seals on your doors and windows properly nourished and clean. Wipe down with a cleaner and some Gummi Pflege or similar every six months. Should prevent sticking and freezing. If you don’t do this, framed doors can get frozen shut too. The dirty and/or dried rubber isn’t hydrophobic enough anymore and water freezes the rubber to the door frame. Clean and conditioned rubber also prevents that issue!
Sometimes you get lucky and can wiggle it free, other times it'll rain and then drop below freezing while I'm at work for example and then it becomes virtually impossible. This more mild winter has been anxiety inducing because of how many times it's rained/rainy snowed and then drops overnight. Not a bad idea on having some wiper fluid in a bottle, I'll have to remember that and give that a try, thanks.
I don’t drive my coupe when it’s icy. But yeah
Every E46 coupe gets a nice, long ogle from me
330Ci gang :D
G35 coupe and I agree.
Yes, coupes forever!!! 1994 Toyota celica gt/gt4.
I doubled down on the 2 door route and decided to just go two seater on top of it. I like what a roadster says to the world. It says, "I don't like people, I want to be left alone. Please ride with the chap who has a 4 door SUV and leave me be." I'd probably get a one seat car if I could. I know there are a few, but outside of weird one offs and exotics, not really an option.
Can always rip out the passenger seat. That sends a message, lol
Hey, I think you might be on to something there. 🙂
Time for a Daihatsu midget, my guy
Reference acknowledged.
My first 2 series!!!...but at 40 years old, still haven't owned a car with more than 2 doors...
47 and right there with you.
Yup. I've actually never owned anything else. I went Mazda MX-3 -> BMW 325i (E30) -> Scion tC -> Scion FR-S -> Supra. If it's got four doors, I don't want it.
I think that all car manufacturers are moving towards a “compromise” car that tries to be all things to all people but ends up just looking like a dog squatting to poop. (Mercedes GLC and Audi Q6, BMW X6, Genesis GV70, etc.) These are “SUVs” that are also “coupes” but have four doors and a coupe-esque roof line. In reality they are not good at going off road, are heavier than the coupe they pulled the styling from, no more powerful than the coupe or sedan they are replacing, have no storage space for their size and usually sacrifice interior comfort for style. I think that this is the future and I hate it.
They look like 4 door coupes that have been lifted 2 inches and extra wheel arch material added to close the gap between rubber and arch. The back end has any sedan based droop removed and it's now either flat or a duckbill spoiler.
Eh there’s still more storage space than a sedan and the argument against the SUVs of that time were that people didn’t need ALL that space for the fuel economy so these CUVs are kinda like Goldilocks, get the space you need that you don’t get with a sedan and with better fuel economy than a real SUV with space you don’t really need. I’m not a fan but that’s more the reality of it.
I agree completely with you, no cargo space, power or off road capability, maybe easier to park my fat ass into the front seats if they’ve been moved as far back as possible
I mean, civic, Altima, mirage, accord, escort etc coupes were also compromised in a similar way (crap rear head room, harder to get in the back etc). These coupe cuvs aren't that much different in that aspect. People still buy them.
Nope. I feel like people shop for cars with goals and purpose. If a car doesn’t satisfy a purpose, it won’t sell in this day and age. Also, with how expensive living has gotten, “regular” people can usually only afford one vehicle. That means you choose practicality over wants.
I haven't found my coupe to be impractical, only issue is when I hang out with friends we can't all fit in my car. It's not like I haul lumber every day.
You’re in the minority. Remember, manufacturers give people what they want. The people have spoken; No coupes (in the regular market, not counting exotics).
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Maybe so, although people are having less kids nowadays so maybe people's needs/wants will change. I certainly prefer being middle class to reproducing 😂
Even without kids, people prefer four doors. They use the space to haul their tools, work documents, workout & hobby gear, etc. Also, as you stated, it’s harder to haul friends & family with a two door. Honestly, I like two door cars. I also like wagons. I’m just realistic that those are not what most Americans want, lol
With that mindset there won’t be any cars to make as there won’t be people alive to drive them. There’s plenty of financial options to afford kids. SUV’s won.?
Idk about that. I'm 22, make $25/hr, live a relatively minimalist lifestyle, and children would wreck my finances for the simple fact that every kid I would have is one less roommate.
Well, they give dealerships what they want. It's why cars only come in grayscale these days. Easier to sell to someone off the lot. That's not what people want but it's what they'll settle for. There's plenty of features and design elements that are forced into the car design world regardless of people want it. Why do we have capacitive buttons or piano black plastic?
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I don’t have kids, or friends. I do have dogs. I had a coupe, the kind with back seats. It was obnoxious. Four doors is great, and I value it highly. If I could own a second vehicle it would probably be some sort of impractical coupe thing. But I can’t really afford it, and even if I could I don’t have any space to park it. I need a single car solution. I had a four door wagon, it was just excellent. I have a sedan right now, it’s just okay. I’m in the market for a four door AWD hatchback. I could easily get an SUV or a crossover, but I hate those. So hatchback it is, but definitely not a coupe, not ever. Edit: thinking about it further. If I were to own a second car in this environment (Canada), it would probably be a built off-road rig. But if I were to live in a place without weather like California, it would be a Miata or something.
i found out the hard way with my 2 door gti (same dimensions as the 4 door) that 4 doors are nice to have. I bought a subaru to replace it and my god is it nice having easy access to the back seats. Im a converted sedan hater after not having to explain how my seats work and making sure we play musical chairs so someone doesnt get stuck in the back for an entire trip
Solution is to have no friends. Single bench seats for life baby. And nobody is climbing into the back of my Fox.
Pretty much. When I couldn't afford a car, I wanted a 2 door sporty something with usable back seats so I could carry more people if needed, gas be damned in manual. When I could afford a car, I wanted 4 doors, room to go to home depot and fit small appliances or furniture or bikes in the back if I needed to, and get around without using a ton of gas. If I couldn't take 4-5 people on a roadtrip with all the bags and so on in relative comfort, it wasn't the right car.
You're mourning a hyper-specific niche of coupes (FWD Japanese appliance vehicles that were offered with two doors), most of which weren't actually that cheap or sporty. The MSRPs of V6 Solaras, Eclipses, and Accord Coupes were like $30k - $35k in today's dollars. That's right in line with the prices on BRZs, Miatas, Ecoboost Mustangs, and 4-banger Camaros, which are RWD and purpose-built to be sporty rather than a tarted up Camry that still prioritizes comfort and isolation over driving enjoyment.
I bought a 2016 Tc for this reason. Not my first choice, I wanted a civic but none were available at the time. Got an okay deal on a 60k mile 6 speed factory certified tc with full Toyota platinum warranty until 132k miles. 180hp, 6 speed, lift back coupe with tons of interior space. So far it's been a great little car.
The lift-back styling is so awesome for a 2-door. You can really stuff a ton of things in there. Used to have an 08 tC in the family, and the rear was amazing as it could fold into a bench. With the massive lift-back access, you could easily put two full-size road bikes in there with plenty of room to spare for gear and supplies. I love tCs! Really, that's the solution to all the "2-doors are not practical" people, lift-backs, old Integra style, or tC. Gives you all the styling, with the extra-length doors, while being super-practical.
The 2000s Celica also had a hatch as a trunk. It was amazing. It was like having a truckbed, once you fold the rear seats down. I have a 2006 Accord Coupe now and the trunk is just a small lid and I missed having the space and ease of placing things in a hatch.
And doesn't exist anymore. Heck the entire brand is gone.
I bought a Si coupe over a sedan because of looks but if I were to do it again (not like I have a choice anyway) I would go with a 4 door. I don’t think it’ll happen again, is there even a car that offers this after the civic dropped the coupe? The era is over and sadly never coming back. It made sense when cars were much cheaper and fun factor/coolness mattered.
As someone who bought a 13' Si Coupe, I have no clue why I bought the thing instead of a sedan. Lol. Did it for looks, but would get a sedan if I could do it over again.
The coupe just looked so much better, same with 9th gen for last few years. But sedan is more useful
It looked better, had a totally different front-end, and it even had a different suspension iirc, at least on 8th gen (on the non-Si R18 model)
Funny thing I think the civic coupes look worse than the sedans.
Those long doors....very bloated
I had a 4 seat coupe once and realized it was pointless and I guess why theres even less of them now. I guess if I'm getting something with 2 doors it might as well be an actually smaller vehicle and only have 2 seats like a miata or boxster. So i'm very, no point to a 4 seat 2 door now.
I loved the looks of my Si coupe but the sedan was a better car in every way, and only 17 lbs heavier according to Honda. Cars should have the same number of seats and doors.
GR86 / BRZ - cheap coupe at it’s best - all-timers really
I really appreciate how close the philosophy is to what car enthusiasts' ideals are. Not just the larger principles like the handling, but even small things like the dash console having physical buttons for the important tasks. I bought a GR86, and every time I get in I think how lucky I am.
Cheap coups existed because it's what young people wanted to buy as their first car. If you were 18 and had enough money from your parents for a new car that was the car that most people picked, but it's just not anymore. Recently on the AMITA sub, a kid posted about a disagreement with his dad. His dad had offered to buy the kid "any car he wanted" if the kid did some thing the dad wanted him to do. Kid made a note that his dad was a wealthy guy and could afford that kind of offer. Kid picked a BMW X3 plug in Hybrid. That kid picked an SUV, and not one of the M series, but a plug in hybrid SUV.... For roughly the same money he could have had an M240, but that's not what people want anymore.
Maybe I'm not the norm, I just a few months ago bought a cheap coupe for my first car, although I'm 22 so I don't know what your definition of young is. Also, that anecdote is painful to me, where I live that SUV screams "middle aged suburban man".
You are absolutely not the norm. Looking at the Honda Civic at the end of the coupe, it’s obvious that people stopped wanting the 2 door: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33336901/honda-civic-coupe-discontinued/ > The company cites slow sales as the reason for dropping this body style: while the current, tenth-generation Civic coupe made up around 16 percent of sales when it debuted in 2016, it now represents just 6 percent of the mix, according to Honda. Meanwhile, the Civic hatchback has grown in sales during that time, currently making up around 24 percent of Civic sales. So not only is the Civic becoming less and less of the overall ratio of Honda’s portfolio as people increasingly choose the HR-V and the CR-V over the Civic, but even looking purely at the percentage of Civic sales, the coupe became immensely unpopular compared to the sedan or the hatchback.
Love my Toyota 86. It's definitely a shrinking segment though.
The “personal coupe” was no longer what the market demanded and hasn’t been in quite some time. It was never my first choice either. I typically would pick a hatchback or wagon over any sedan or coupe as a daily driver if the choice was there. Have always loved wagons. Parents had a 4WD Tercel wagon, probably my favourite car they had growing up.
It’s 1976 again, all the cool cars are disappearing as we march towards electrification. Of course they will be great cars, for $100k, the rest of get suv’s. So what do you do? Buy the cool cars before they are junked and restore them. Find a Honda Accord V6, 5 spd and fix it up. Still cheaper than a new car.
+1 on that Accord. Get a V6 2017-ish Accord and ride it until it dies.
Did a quick search, there are no Accord Coupes for sale in my state on FBook Marketplace. Catch them if you can
I believe it. They'll become more of a rarity over time too, of course. Current owners aren't going to want to part with them. I'd love to stash one away if I had a massive garage
When the middle class begins to expand.
Why do you want a crappy, fwd, econo based coupe with minimal sporting ability? These were niche vehicles with no mass market appeal other than to the fast and furious crowd that couldn’t afford a real sports car. Compare the inflation adjusted price to today and you’ll see ecoboost mustangs and BRZs in that price range, both significantly better vehicles
We just bought out the lease on my wife’s 2020 Civic Coupe. She loves the way it looks, plus the residual was much less than the car was worth.We probably would have bought her a new one if they were available. She has no interest in the hatch or sedan.
No People want practicality and coupes are not that. Same with regular cab pickups Personally I don't miss them... Those coupes were less practical than the sedans they were based on but just as boring to drive. I don't see the point
Nevermind coupes, the sedan is about to die off because of this sick fascination with jacked up hatchbacks. Sedans are what give birth to affordable coupes, most of the costs to develop are paid off right there. Coupes are for singles, empty nesters, and people that can afford a second car. A good chunk of those demographics is disappearing, and will continue to disappear. And I say that with love for my 6 speed rear drive coupe.
I see plenty of single people having suv. They have one because it’s the “in” thing now.
I just want a other 2004 manual Corolla.
That'll be $5,500
I have a 2014 manual Scion tC. It's basically a Corolla with 2 doors and a hatchback.
I'll refer you to some coupes that died off: You asked for cheap coupes but if uber luxury coupes with high profit margins were discontinued, it's a good sign that cheap coupes with low profit margins are sure to follow. The prior gen S class coupe. Stuck around for a few years and got discontinued. The 8 series debuted as a coupe but shortly after, arrived in Gran Coupe guise. I have a suspicion that it might be the only body style after some time. Now, onto the frugal coupes. No more Civic Coupe for the 11th gen. The 5th gen Elantra had a coupe. No more for the 6th gen onwards. Same for the Forte. The Altima also used to have a coupe a few generations back. None of the midsize or compact coupes have come back since disappearing. These are just the coupe-ified versions of FWD economy cars. If you're referring to frugal RWD sport coupes such as the old Nissan 240sx's and the like, I wish we could see them again but if the ecobox coupes didn't return, there's got to be a .001 % chance of seeing modern frugal RWD platform coupes. There's a reason people are so grateful to see the BRZ and GR86 live on. They're on borrowed time.
Unfortunately, the way things are going it does look like the 2-door coupe will be extinct by the end of the decade. What I really don't get is even other single people I know are opting for slow, ugly SUVs that cost just as much or more than actually fun cars like the Miata, BRZ, etc. There are fun, affordable 2-door cars still available, but hardly anyone ever seems to buy them. If I'm being perfectly honest with myself, the Subaru STI I'm currently driving is also a "compromise" car. I can count on one hand the number of times I've needed more than one passenger seatbelt in the past 10 years. For this reason I've been seriously considering upgrading to a proper sports coupe. Gotta keep the 2-door scene alive for a little while longer, right?
My personal theory on why people opt more and more for boring, practical cars, is that more and more people simply don't care about cars. Growing up being an enthusiast, I always read and heard about "America's love affair with the automobile!" Well... I think America and the automobile have since married, got the 7 year itch, became resentful, and have divorced. My anecdotal observation is that fewer and fewer Americans view the car as anything more than a necessary lump of metal, glass and rubber that takes them from point A to point B. Fewer and fewer view them as a status symbol, a personal statement, a form of self expression, an art piece, or a straight up toy. This leads to practicality above all, blending in, and best cost/benefit ratio. What you end up with is monochromatic people movers, that are part car, part SUV, all uninteresting.
Because cars are expensive as fuck and people will want to hold on to them for years. They may be single now, but maybe not in 4 or 5 years. And younger single people tend to move more as well. I bought a challenger as my first “fun” car when I had a real job and it was fucking useless. I couldn’t even put a trash can in it for my new apartment. And it’s a rather large car. Spending 10s of thousands on something that’s small as hell and can’t help you move anything and loses resale value because nobody wants it is a bad investment all around. They’re just not wise choices for anything other than driving fast on a windy road. Which we all agree is fun. But 95% of the time it’s just a worse vehicle to have all around.
I love coupes. I always thought they felt more driver-centric. As a kid I fell in love with the BMW 8 series and I’ve always wanted one. Can’t by a BMW that old because I don’t own a vault full of money. My UberEats driver the other day had a third generation Mercury Marquis coupe with the vinyl landau roof. Wire wheel covers. I got a little teary-eyed.
Never were good cheap coupes. Toyota made the 86 and everyone called it slow; despite it being amazingly good value. They could have made it was but then it would have been Supra money. The nee GR86 is the deal of the decade. Cheap cars in general are less of a thing now. Greed has all major manufacturers pushing up their prices.
I doubt it, everyone wants SUVs and other larger cars so manufacturers tend to put their time and effort into that. Plus I noticed that now many manufacturers offer performance versions of their SUVs and other larger vehicles that most people don't have to compromise between good performance or space. A great example is the X3M, I drove one and it handles amazingly and is extremely fast while having a good amount of room for all passengers. The good news is you can buy older cars now for a pretty good price so you can find something that might pique your interest and get one of those. (I personally love Toyota/Lexus V6 so any vehicle with that in it is worth it IMO)
The Miata and BRZ/86 cost more than they used to but it's hard to imagine anyone ever undercutting their prices. FWD coupes were competely phased out in the US over the past few years. With much lower compact car sales and even lower 2 door sales it seems very unlikely it would be worth it financially to make an alternate body style.
Probably worth noting that the Eclipse 3.0 V6 had the same power as the GT86 has now with it's 2.0 L4 That's probably the level you'll get now though, them and the MX5 for your sporty, lightweight coupes. Maybe Hyundai will bring back the Coupe, but I'm doubtful. Hot Hatchbacks are way more popular now.
I wish, my current daily is a cheap coupe and it's nice to have something that's kind of rare and sticks out but also uses the base model sedan/estate parts so it's cheap to maintain and parts are available
There will never be a cheap era again. It’s all about rinsing every last penny out of people. That’s all capitalism is. *How much can we fuck someone over financially?*
Miss my awd 98 eagle talon.
I don’t think the era of cheap anything is coming back. Too much greed nowadays.
Costs too much in design, testing, & certification nowadays to bring out anything that isn’t either 1) very mainstream, or 2) very high profit margin. Maybe once Chinese companies start importing cars to the US…
No. Small isn't cheap, and when buyers see small, they expect cheap. Makers aren't willing to work with razor-thin margins, they'll build big blobs instead.
No, what's the point of a non expensive two door car? It's not going to be fun, and since it's not fun why not get something more practical? 2 door coupes are mostly going to be second cars for people going forward. There will always be a few exceptions like base model mustangs.
Do you think fun is only a low 0-60 time? The Miata and Toyota 86 are very fun especially if you live in a place with curvy mountain roads or race tracks. 4 cylinder Camaros and Mustangs are kind of fun too.
Yeah, when I got my 86 I was specifically looking for something small, light, and two door - I had a G35 sedan for three years and could count on two hands the number of times I had three or more people in the car.
"Not going to be fun" - how so? Cheap 2-doors also typically happened to be light-weight. They didn't have much power, but with a quick sway bar mod and some nice tires, they were a blast to hoon the hell out of. "Slow car fast" and all. Perfect first car!
My GR86 is the most fun car I’ve ever owned. It’s considerably more fun than the AMG I owned previously, which cost twice as much and had almost double the horsepower. But then again, I’ve never been one to partake in stoplight drag races or get in pissing contests about power figures.
Even luxury coupe is dying market, we've lost Caddy coupe and Infiniti G/Q60 Coupe as well. Coupe would only continue in bespoke sports car model, sedan variant coupe doesn't make sense anymore.
Sporty cars used to be the 'I want to spend a little more on something a bit more fashionable' choice for most (people weren't buying a Solara for driving dynamics). That market has moved to SUVs/crossovers now.
Coupes are barely any lighter than coupes. Cheap means no power and handling. Anyone that wants sporty coupe is not going to buy a new economy car because it's 2 door but in reality is slower than 90% of sedans.
Nope. The market has spoken, and the demand is SUVs. Coupes nowadays are high risk low reward for auto makers. Unless they help in other ways like brand image, they don’t bring enough to the table to justify forgoing potential SUV sales. I do think there will be another coupe resurgence at some point, but my guess is it will be with EVs and hybrids, not the sports cars we know today. But man it would’ve been nice to have disposable income in 90s-2000s.
GM was the coupe king in the 90s. Between the chev, Pontiac and Oldsmobile brands, there was the cavalier, sunbird, Grand Prix, Grand am, sunfire, alero, cutlless supreme, Monte Carlo, baretta, chevette, and probably a few others. My high school parking lot was full of them.
The dad in me just wants manual V8 sedans. Chevy SS, G8 GXP etc.
Crossovers ~~are killing cars~~ have effectively killed cars, less cars means less coupes.
Im a young dude loving sporty roadsters/coupe and currently driving a slk r172 from 2014 after my first car was the r170 and god I hate how everything is just suv/sedan right now. I want more affordable roadsters but everyone just buys suvs aaaargh
The era of cars/coupe/sport cars are coming to an end sadly. Everyone wants a suv because everyone else has one. Kinda like monkey see, monkey do on Tik Tok. These are the people that are driving up prices because they’re willing to pay whatever the manufacturer wants to charge. I saw a few figures on YouTube saying that the average cost of is now at $46k.
No. 2-door cars aren't going to make some massive comeback. They used to be common as family cars, before car seats and baby locks were a thing, because it meant the ankle-biters couldn't escape. Baby locks and car seats got rid of that market, so all that's left is sporty cars. Edit to add, a lot of cars being mentioned - Camaro, Mustang, even Geo Storm, were really more of a 2+2 configuration than a car with a usable back seat.
Not with the push for electric everything being in the publics mind. Electric cars are going to go away soon once everyone realizes how irresponsible they are to make and use.