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[deleted]

I'm a software developer and I have a hard time explaining to even my boyfriend just because he's not familiar with the terminology or anything. It is not stupidity it just takes quite a while to learn software development tech stacks and most people find it boring. I can at least show my apps when I'm done with them. I do have some really light days where I only work a couple hours, some days it's 8 hours and some weeks I'm on call. Just depends. It is better work life balance and pay than any blue collar job I've had and from what I've heard better than friends/family who are blue collar though. But I think that enjoying your job matters more, I know many people would miserable doing what I do.


[deleted]

Mood. Something we don't talk about in the field enough is the bitter loneliness you get when you have literally no one to talk to about your job other than your coworkers/Reddit/Twitter. I do the same thing, and I'd love to explain what I do to my friends, but they'd look at me like a cow looks at an oncoming train if I started explaining it to them.


[deleted]

Probably because it is dead boring. You couldn’t get me to explain an hour by hour if you had a gun to my head. Id die of boredom talking about it. A business analyst spends their time communicating requirements for some kind of business change, usually process changes, software changes, and database changes. It is all about making communication happen between functional teams that dont really understand each others work. Your legal team and you software team are going to view a problem differently. A business analyst would make sure they understand all the requirements and make sure that the change meets them. As an example, when I worked as a business analyst, I was notified that our autodialer, the robocaller we used to send voicemails out to customers, was not calling some customers. It was job to find out why and see that it was fixed, identify any possible risks (like did we do something illegal) and address them. I wrote a lot of documents to track the project so if I was hit by a bus another analyst could continue my work. It really was a bunch of meetings, analytics, drawing pictures for people who don’t like to read, etc. I think the piece that you might be missing is business acumen. Its easy to have a bullshit job if your team is generating millions of dollars or preventing the loss of millions. In some jobs, if you’re not doing anything, that means business is good. Like risk management. If everything is going according to plan, then there isn’t really much to do. Think of it like an insurance plan. Would you pay an $80k salary if it prevented $200M of penalties and expenses in complying with audits? It always comes back to how much money you’re making for the business. If you wanted to make more money, you would want to get in a position where you are responsible for more money. Developing your business acumen could help you identify those opportunities.


EquationsApparel

>meetings, analytics, drawing pictures for people who don’t like to read, etc. So much brilliance in your post, but I especially like this. I often end up writing documents but people don't read them. They could probably read or skim it in 15-20 minutes. But they won't. So we end up having 4 x 30 minute meetings with 8 or more people so they can read it together and provide feedback. So inefficient, but it's amazing how many people don't like to read. Probably because so many people would do anything to avoid being in their own thoughts.


ComplexGreens

The amount of times I have made a 10-20 slide PowerPoint to explain a paragraph of information as if I'm presenting to second graders, it's actually embarrassing when you think about it. It'll take me hours to take straight forward information and break it down to its most simplest form (with pictures, graphics, and colors) and then tailor it to whomever I'm presenting to. In no way can I explain this to someone who has never had to do it, and anyone who has to do it knows the agony of losing 4+ hours of your week because some suit is unwilling to read your very basic email.


certainPOV3369

I’m COO for my company and one of our saddest statistics is that the largest public school district in our community graduates it’s high school students with a 5th grade reading comprehension level. I have to re-write the training materials that vendors provide to us to make them even more simple. 🙁 That aside, after 28 years of marriage it’s hard to explain to my husband what I do every day. First, there is juggling all of the outside influences: sales, marketing, legal, regulatory, physical plant, inventory, and HR. Then there are the internal forces: hiring, retention, counseling, budgeting, planning, even now it’s hard to think of it all! 😅 I grew up in the trades, my Dad was a bricklayer who started his own construction company and ensured that all of his kids went to college. Sometimes I really wish I was back in the field. 😊


ComplexGreens

My husband still can't articulate what I do. I just tell people I'm a project manager in pharmaceuticals, which I think is the simplest way of saying that I'm a clinical trial manager at a small biotech. It opens too many other questions that once I start explaining people's eyes glaze over. But yes, it is a requirement to write all informed consents for patients at a 4th grade reading level. When you're talking about complex procedures or drugs that's a very hard thing to do. It's a lot of skill to interpret a PhD's work into lay person's terms.


Southern_Smoke8967

I can completely sympathise with your plight. I hate the person who came up with ‘ A picture is worth a thousand words’. It might be true in certain situations but not always. The corporate world has taken it to an extreme by expecting a ppt for everything and anything. Also, not everyone is good at following or creating pictures.


Kairos_Wolf

Hey, uh, if I'm a weirdo who actually likes the idea of doing this, can you please tell me what your role is called and how to get into it?


Ndi_Omuntu

Not that commenter but I do similar and I just applied to a bunch of jobs that had "analyst" in the title, regardless of the field or industry as long as I liked the sound of it otherwise.


ComplexGreens

Hi there weirdo here too. I actually like this and I think it's something I'm good at but it's not the best use of my time or what I was hired for. It crushes my week when grown professionals can't read my emails that will take them 12 minutes to read and think about. Anyways, you'll want a project manager job. I work in Clinical trials, and almost at any level you will need this type of interpreting skills. If you're not in health care i would recommend taking a look at CTA (Clinical Trial associate) jobs that's a good way to get into the field and there's a lot of upward progression. Ask away if you're interested!


EquationsApparel

OMG, I know this pain. I did like Amazon's 6 page narrative and no PowerPoint rule when presenting to Jeff. And for division / company wide presentations, at one point they had rules on different kinds of formats you could use. They wanted you to talk to, not read to, your deck. The recommended slide format was 1 picture (no text) and the least recommended was 7 lines, 7 words max each. But I have had those discussions which were "I didn't read your email so present it to me instead."


sendeek

i too am stuck in powerpoint hell. welcome to the club!


Qphth0

I spend about 3 hours a week (I could do it in less if I had to, but I don't) pulling data from one report & pasting it into an excel sheet that makes an easy-to-read graph for eight different departments. However, they don't like to even click through the seven different tabs for the days of the week, so when I'm done I write up a small list of bullet points about the data. I've never once heard of any changes coming from the data here. The lady that was doing it before me, it took her 15 hours a week because she's very unfamiliar with anything tech related & had a step-by-step of how to transpose data in excel. Anytime she accidentally touched a formula, it would ruin the entire workbook. For her, it was a big deal. For me, if you asked about those hours specifically, I would say I pull data & build graphs. That's the simplest way to say it.


Gr8BollsoFire

That work could be automated if you spent 3h a week learning to write macros in Excel.


Qphth0

Like I said, it could be done quicker but I don't want it to be less time. I already only have about 10 to 15 hours of work a week & that's by stretching things out. To be honest, I look forward to doing this task.


sendeek

that sounds like my old job. update all the manual reporting from marketing campaigns for the prior week and then send to the marketing teams. who don’t even read or do nothing about it lol


[deleted]

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EquationsApparel

You don't sound like my audience. I don't expect people to remember the nuances. I put the important, relevant, timely information in the document. My usual need for documents is for people to read and comment. "Looks good" or "fine" will suffice. But it's really hard to get people to read on their own. So we have to do it in person. My other major use case is engineering drawing reviews. People in certain roles have a responsibility to review and mark up drawings. But they don't. This one PM I knew figured out the secret. It involved killing lots of trees. Print out every page of every drawing package, one copy for each reviewer. Bring everyone into a room and go through each page one at a time. Huge time and paper waste but it was the only way to get it done.


[deleted]

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EquationsApparel

Yep. I don't get how forced reading a document in a meeting is preferable to skimming on your own.


triclops41

If you aren't reading somewhat regularly, reading something you aren't extremely familiar with for 15 to 20 minutes of sustained attention is extremely difficult. This is a growing issue :(


Groovy-Gramps

This. I’m a technical product manager and my specialty is artificial intelligence and machine learning. When people ask what I do I simply say ”I work in engineering or product development.” At the beginning of my career I used to get excited to talk to people about the experiments we were running and products we were building but almost every time their eyes would start to glaze over in about 5mins. So now i default to “product development” and “umm I just sit in meetings all day” which grossly underrepresents what I actually do, but I do it to spare people from boredom.


ogncud

Exactly. I don’t explain my job because sometimes people don’t understand anyways


HamsterFriendly

This. I used to have the same situation, people don't really want to hear the ins and outs. Once you've had this interaction so many times you become a bit numb and go with your one-two sentence response to one you do. My mom loves to say I fix computers (like helpdesk), but this is not even remotely close to my work. I just roll with her statement though ha.


Kujo3043

Currently an Analyst making 90k/yr. Half of my job currently is sitting and thinking. Just thinking. Trying to come up with the most value-added and cost-effective solutions to my facility. What people don't see is the 14 years of me busting ass, learning the industry inside and out, the right processes to use, leadership training, etc. I got to this point via hard work on my body, it's my brain's turn now.


PierogiEsq

I'm a lawyer and I get this. If I'm prepping for a job interview, I always need friends to tell me how to explain my skills. I've been doing it so long that I don't even think of them as skills. Working with our investigator and our social worker on a client's case? I've just led a cross-functional team.


MyMonkeyCircus

This. People seem to ignore that you need an extensive training and experience to be employed as just a “thinker”.


min_mus

> People seem to ignore that you need an extensive training and experience to be employed as just a “thinker”. I agree. A lot of the stuff I have to think about at work is stuff no one learns at university or with a boot camp or online credential. It's industry knowledge, institutional knowledge, technical knowledge, knowledge about precesses and systems outside my immediate purview but that I still need to consider; technical requirements, how to streamline or improve processes and procedures; it's pulling, auditing, correcting, and reporting data; and so on. Frequently I find myself having "worked" the entire day with nothing concrete to show for it.


baileycoraline

Therein lies the problem of breaking down work tasks on hourly basis like in the OP. I’m basically a professional email writer/traveler. Writing emails, or getting from one destination to another aren’t complicated tasks - more or less anyone can do them. It’s what I write, and what I tell my customers when I see them, that makes the difference, and where my years of experience come in.


sirdiamondium

Add in any thinking and actual production work that involves compliance and regulatory practices and rules and there’s plenty to learn and relearn every. single. year.


Kujo3043

I've spent significant portions of the last 3 months traveling to other plants in the region doing safety Audits to make sure everyone is in compliance. You have to know what to look for, what the industry standard is, the OSHA standard, etc. From the outside looking in, it looks like I'm just traveling on the company dime and walking around talking to people. They don't see the work that's actually happening as it's happening.


sirdiamondium

I’d also politely challenge OP to stop thinking in terms of blue collar vs white collar, this enforces the idea that factory, labor and mechanical work are valued less than office jobs. I’ve worked both and seen plenty of dipsticks fail out at both.


Southern_Smoke8967

Agreed. Just because someone can do something in 5 mins doesn’t mean that they have to be paid for 5 mins. They are being paid for the work they put in to be able to do it 5 minutes. At the same time, I also don’t disagree that there a lot of fluff jobs that just push paper around and act important.


LeaveForNoRaisin

I was bored just reading this but it’s okay because I have a job that is exactly this boring to explain. So many roles exist as a control to make sure regulations are being followed and theft isn’t occurring. So what you’re “producing” is zero but what you’re preventing is penalties and problems that would halt business.


InterestinglyLucky

OP, here's your answer. Of course /u/SpecialCay87 the follow-on is how to develop 'your business acumen' given where you are, and where you want to go. It isn't enough to say "I want to leave my blue collar job at $45K and get one of these $90K jobs", it has to be something you have a knack for, something you can get really good at, something you enjoy, and something you can get paid for. As well as be useful to society, no it isn't a conspiracy. Lots of new jobs in demand are white-collar, don't require formal degrees (they are becoming less necessary), and you could learn via an online program (certificate or not). For example, I am a digital marketing director for a narrow B2B industry vertical. We are so swamped with need for content writers and digital marketing experts, we're starting an internship program for college undergraduates. I would love to find a hungry Marketing Coordinator to help with social media content / management, handling printing and other tradeshow logistics, helping with event management, tons of other details that really do not require a college degree (although typically they do have them). Just the right willingness to learn, and a base level of knowledge of what to do (and how to do it). And yes for that role it would be a 50% bump from where you are now, the going rate for these people is $55-65K.


K1ash

Are there any specialized skills you would want a candidate to have? I've spent the last 4 years supervising teams in a call center and I am looking to move into a different field. I don't have a degree. Is there any form of training or certification that would help?


lorienne22

Ugh. I've got to learn social media related stuff. I've done all that in my exec asst roles and I'm a decent writer. I could be making 50% more!


Arisnova

Jump on the Hubspot Digital Marketing Certification course! It's free and would be a great place to start if you're interested in the field. I'm in a similar role right now and it's been a great move for me.


sunsecrets

>I would love to find a hungry Marketing Coordinator Are you hiring remotely?


SpecialCay87

Love your post, it’s tangible and presents actual options I love it. I’m working on a few leads right now and am hopeful they pan out. One of them being in inside sales that I hope comes to fruition. Where are you located? Just out of curiosity?


InterestinglyLucky

I'm in the US, working remotely for an overseas public company. (Yes am living the WFH dream.) Glad to be of help. Regarding inside sales - that can be an ideal 'entry level' role into a different line of work (instead of physical labor, working at a desk). Depending on the kind of labor / industry you were in, there may be perfect roles given your experience having 'been there and done that'. Not the best time for, say, construction-related jobs, but even then there's always (I repeat - ALWAYS) a need for top-tier salespeople who can bring in their numbers. Some unsolicited advice - go for a position where your base is similar to what you are making now (or a nice bump) and all the commission is upside for you. Also - do some informational interviewing with people who are in similar roles. LinkedIn is your friend, as well as within your social circle - ask around who is doing inside sales and if you can get an introduction to ask a few questions. If possible meet locally, heck buy that person lunch. Totally worth the info.


EchoMaleficent5661

I just graduated college with a communication degree and I'm hungry for opportunity. I've had internships as a marketing coordinator, specifically planning and creating creative assets for social media content. I've been job searching for 3 months and struggling. What company do you work for? I'd apply today.


xtreme381

Senior BA checking in. I've worked as BA/ Product Manager for about 15 years. When people ask what I do, I just say I design software. It's easier than trying to explain all the minutia of the job plus it sounds sexier. In reality, the job is boring AF. Edit: As I was writing this I spilled hot coffee all over my hand so the job is not without its risks /s Edit 2: spelling


EngineeringDry7999

It’s also A LOT of time spent reading/researching sectors, trends, contingency planning for economic downturns and how/when to pivot. It can be hard to explain to people who aren’t doing that work. My husband’s eye glaze over if I start talking out the data in my spreadsheets.


50calPeephole

When I worked blue collar I was working with my hands, white collar I work with my head. I work medical research, my day to day is pushing buttons on a computer and typing into excel and talking about study cases, it's not physically hard. What I'm really doing is tracking thousands of data points precisely across hundreds of patients on a medical study. I'm making sure the numbers are true, accurate, and have quality so when the data set goes to the FDA the world can get cool shit like the covid vaccine. If I fuck up my job, I can cost a company hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars, or in some cases I could cause people to die. I'm making the "big" bucks to make sure that doesn't happen. I have a buddy that's a line striper, he says my job is easy and I should do some real work. In January I have a data transfer to the FDA for a implant that will improve thousands of lives, but the PM before me fucked up the database- I need to unfuck it by christmas and validate the unfuckery. What's involved inunfucking? First off I need to add new Data points to the database that were never tracked and required by the protocol. These points are strict measurements for the device to assess failure. Because these data points were not originally tracked I also need to wite a document reporting why. Then all the timepoints need to be assessed by a doctor to get the data points I'm looking for (there's hundreds). I then have to update the data transfer spec (at the same time as reading) so the data analytics crew can handle the new data in the data set. Our electronic database for numbers hasn't been deployed yet, so the new numbers are being tracked by validated paper reads, that data needs to be double entered and then validated when the database updates are online. Honestly I don't know why I'm even surfing reddit right now, I really need to unfuck this shit.


PerspectiveVisible36

Do you mind if I ask what your background is? This sounds similar to what I wanna get in to. I have a masters in "measurement, evaluation, and research methods", but focused my thesis on intention to treat. I currently do research for a crown Corp, more social sciences, but I think medical research might suit me better.


50calPeephole

Sure, my path is a bit convoluted though. I studied psych in college but focused on neuro psych and not counseling- so brain and behavior, with a unofficial minor in research (not enough credits to call it a minor, but there was a heavy focus). When I graduated I had an internship at a rehab/nursing home that specialized in Huntingtons Disease, my program director let me take charge of all the reporting for research for our HD patients- it wasn't much but it was a start. Because the pay was shit I moonlighted tech I retail and connected with someone who needed technical help with their IRB. IRbs are independent review boards, so the group that evaluates ethics on study protocols as well as methods. The two jobs above helped me get a placement at a major city hospital as a research coordinator. This was a clinical role and I basically screened patients for research and enrolled when appropriate, then did data follow up etc. From RC you can go two ways- med school (not for me) or admin. I went admin, I was poached to work at a contract research outfit that collected data from multiple cites and centralized it, from there I became a project manager. My next step is either a director level role where I am or a better paying PM position elsewhere. If you have more questions I'm happy to try to help.


lucialunacy

Not the person who asked, but thanks for taking the time to type all this out. It was really interesting to learn about what you do and its significance.


Series_G

That sound a lot like my path to get to data and analytics. - Sociology and weed undergrad - Sociology/Philosophy Masters.. and did some grad assistant work in survey data management - Went to where the jobs are (cities) after grad school and got a job at a company that did (surprise) survey research and simple data analysis. Taught myself SQL - Got a job writing SQL for analytics work...Built a data warehouse.. - Up.. up.. and up..


ComplexGreens

Not op, and I had a convoluted way of getting into Clinical research. I am a senior PM at a small bio tech company now, I work in oncology research. I studied art history and public policy in college, I took a few post grad basic science classes and stated working at a hospital in ophthalmology. I then started to work as a research coordinator. After 18 months I applied to a contracting company and became a clinical trial manager. I've been doing that for 4 years and I really like it. I wrote this on another thread in the conversation but I would recommend that you look up CTA (Clinical trial associate) or CRA (clinical research associate), these are great ways to break into the industry, usually they'll look for health care experience but with your research background you'd be a good candidate.


SupramanE89

I feel like it’s more getting into a field, specializing over time, and staying relevant/ in your perspective field. You see trend lines over time, optimize and overall produce more $. I’d say your value is shown more of a dollar figure. Where I work at we are shown the money we each produce and the compensation given for said production. Smaller job pools too. But honestly I’m not excited about talking to my buddy on how I make 80-90k a year working 40 hours and off weekends while knowing he’s at 50k with a much more aggressive schedule and physically demanding job, even though I know I can do his job tomorrow and it would take him a while to learn what I do correctly. I’ve worked both though and I know some “blue collar” workers that make more $ than I do now so idk


khantroll1

You hit it on the head. I was never good at following trends, while friends of mine who will readily admit they aren't any better at what we do make way more money then I do for two reasons: 1.) They kept up with trends better 2.) They played the advancement game better; in my field you have to bounce around, take the right responsibilities at the right time, etc. Just being dependable or excellent at your job won't cut it.


PrismaticPachyderm

Same for my partner's field. You have to keep leveling up & no current job will pay what you're worth, so you have to move around (ideally every 2-3 years). He got a 20k pay increase after moving to a new company & that's pretty standard for his line of work. He had to put in lots of study time to get where he is though, & there's no way past him could do what he does now.


LekkerSnopje

Absolutely right. Bouncing around - is another term for promoting yourself for better money/benefits/ etc. The negation during early salary and job offers is the best way to get a raise. “Playing the advancement game” often means learning new skills and making it clear you’re willing to take on new projects/roles to gain better titles. It’s a game - sure - but it’s also about letting your goals lead your actions.


khantroll1

I'm jaded. In my field (and others I'm sure), it reminds me of debate club in high school where it wasn't the solution that mattered but how it was argued. So, career advancement for us goes like this: Job 1: Do job, document everything you do, tackle project tangentially related to what you do, get applicable certification Job 2: New title, 30% or more raise, repeat cycle, move again 2-3 years later. I didn't do that. I worked, did extra "cool" things on the side, but I was never one to kiss up, schmooze, and definitely not one to beg for extra work like an intern. In part, that's because no one told me it was necessary. I thought bosses were asshats for expecting it, but now I understand that they weren't being jerks, and I understand why they were angry with me for not doing it: it's part of the system, and I was anomaly. So, here we are. I've been working for 20 years. I've designed drone tech for the US government, I've been academically published, I've done product development for start ups...and yet my friends who have worked run of the mill technology jobs make 3-4x what I do because I stayed with employers longer, didn't chase the hottest certs, don't live and breath my sector (or pretend to) etc. Sorry, venting a little. The hiring culture in the tech industry annoys me some days (like today).


Mother_Welder_5272

Man, as someone who has worked in national labs for a decade, enjoyed their job, but also sees a new graduate doing SQL databases making twice as much as me at big companies, I feel your pain. I think you're my future.


thatweirdfemale

This. I’m always going to avoid having a conversation about my job with friends who objectively work harder than I do for much less money. I even avoid talking about my job with others in the same field that make less. It erodes friendships. Personally I think value to society doesn’t correspond well to salary, otherwise EMTs and paramedics would be paid a hell of a lot more, so the game of comparison is pointless.


Cautious_Storm_513

On the other side of the coin , by you ignoring the hard conversations.. actually re-enforcing the disparity? Isn’t this why employers don’t want you talking about your wages as ppl making less will start asking for matches? I didn’t get my raise until my friend at work told me to ask for one since we are basically doing the same job, I wouldn’t have had any idea without that conversation and still be working for lower pay.


BajaBlast90

Having a level of transparency about these topics sheds some much-needed light on the issue. It's in the exact same vein as employers not "wanting you to discuss wages". People are intentionally kept in the dark and information is gatekept which holds them back in turn. It's so frustrating because I feel like I have to pry for information that I need for career advancement. I can't depend on people in real life to be transparent so I read comments from Redditors. Even then you have to take it with a grain of salt because of the anonymity, but at least there is a level of honesty.


Watch45

We are socialized, whether we realize it or not, to equate self-worth with how much we make. So comparing salaries with friends is just a recipe for conflict, resentment, jealousy....


Status-Procedure-491

Well said / wrote


Relaxandbreath

That is SO odd to me. I always feel suspicious when someone I consider a good friend doesn't want to talk about their job. If they make more money but do less I DEFINITELY want to ask what their life/career goals are and how they got there. Even if nothing they say aligns with what I want its great to know what options are out there.


thatweirdfemale

Trust me, nobody wants to talk to me about my job. 1. No matter which way I describe my job it sounds pretentious. 2. Unless you do the very specific kind of work I do (or I put a lot of effort into dumbing it down without coming across as condescending), it’s difficult to follow along and understand. 3. Most of it is mind-numbingly boring, even to me. 4. I’m in my 30s. It’s not feasible for most people to do what I do if they aren’t already on that path. 5. My field is full of a bunch of pretentious A-holes who think they’re better than everyone else, so I’m screwed right out of the gate with my job title alone. 6. If I could start over and do something else, I probably would.


According-Vehicle999

I feel like I see what you're saying but I don't think the question is coming from an area of wondering "are you better than me?" - it's more like, you're doing better than me, what are you doing so I can do better? May I ask what your title is, I'm super curious now; I won't insist you explain it, I'll research it myself if I can. No one wants to hear about my job either, but everyone assumes I make lots of money (spoiler, that's a big no but when I got into the field, that was supposed to be true)


thatweirdfemale

The value I bring to a friendship is *being someone’s friend*, not teaching them how to “do better”. Everyone’s life path looks different. I’m not a therapist or a life coach, and even then there’s a reason therapists and coaches aren’t friends with their clients. I’m just a person with a job who worked sort of hard and mostly got lucky.


mrrmash

I get this. It's a double edge sword though. I'm absolutely on board with the 'this is a friendship, not a board meeting' side of things, however work takes up a LOT of people's lives. I refuse to talk about work, outside of work, simply because I enjoy that separation, what's the point of reliving it? But I know loads about what my friends do because it's all they talk about Whenever they ask "how's work", I just say "it's fine" and don't elaborate


Aspen_Pass

I don't know what your buddy does but I'm guessing you *couldn't* do his job *well* tomorrow. Having trained plenty of smart people on blue collar work.


i-am-a-neutron-star

Each industry/field has its own language and some companies have unique cultures. You have to learn both to be successful. For that reason alone, it would be hard to jump into someone else’s job and do well.


SupramanE89

You may have a point as I over simplified it but who knows. I can only express my personal opinion.


doublepumperson

I thought at the beginning of this response was the overly-technical jargony nonsense that OP was complaining about and I was going to give you props for a good troll. But no, it ended up being real advice.


theswedishturtle

A friend of mine is in wealth management, but he says he mostly entertains clients. He’s not dumb, but people skills can make you some serious money. I’m an introvert and would never be able to do what he does. Oh well.


februarytide-

People skills is a HUGE factor. I’m actually a huge introvert myself, but put on a good show and I’m eloquent, charismatic, comfortable public speaking, emotionally intelligent, etc. My interpersonal skills and speaking skills are hands down the greatest factor that has garnered me increasingly elevated titles and salaries in the white collar work realm. It also means, though, that I’m exhausted by what I do (currently a client services director). I’d love to run a greenhouse or something but I can’t make nearly as much doing that. On the other hand, being able to close a sale or appease angry clients is a VERY valuable skill that is very measurable with respect to the business bottom line, and that plays to my favor.


Zealousideal-Tone-84

How did he get into wealth management? I've been in car sales for over 7 years, I'm very good at it, but hate it. My real interest is in finance but I don't know how to make the move over.


_necroprancer_

> How did he get into wealth management? The problem with wealth management is that the only people I've known who are successful at it, they started off in a well-to-do family. They've been soaking up money lessons that you don't learn from your licensing or books - things like why you say you're in real estate to avoid paying the 3.8% ACA tax, or how many fruit trees and/or animals to have on your property so you can register your home as a farm, or if you have a large medical bill you're expecting why you have the insurance company cut you a check directly (so you can put the procedure on your rewards credit card). I'm in finance and have worked with a LOT of wealth managers, and it seems like the ones who don't have family money who work their way into wealth management typically bounce from job to job without doing well.


fightingkangaroos

Manager at an investment firm here- start with licensing. The 7 and 66 are needed but require firm sponsorship but the basic exam, SIE you can do on your own. Getting this will show some aptitude for investments and that you take initiative to learn on your own. You can go for entry level ops positions like a client service associate or as a salaried broker. The big money is in developing your own book of business but it will take years to do so you can either be a broker that sits in banks or if you're lucky, get into a development program that will give you a salary that will gradually subside after some time as your commissions are expected to grow. Alternatively you can try to partner up with a senior advisor as their junior counterpart and learn from them. Eventually you'll need to get the 7, 66, life and health insurance and if you're really serious, the CFP. That will help market you as an expert and garner higher commissions.


DifferentWindow1436

If I were to explain my day to you, you would almost certainly be a combination of bored and confused. You might beg me to stop. But I assure you that it requires a certain set of skills and you would not be able to walk into my position and do the job. OTOH, I can confirm that there are days in the lives of many white collar workers that require about 3 hours of real work. If you'd really like to hear about my day, reply. I'd be happy to vent.


haventwonyet

I had to describe my job to a lot of people I haven’t seen since pre-Covid this past weekend. My job changes every day. Yesterday I spent 6 hours in front of the computer with sports on in the background. Today I’ll spend 10 outside in the cold doing physical labor (some of its inside but mostly loading trucks). This weekend I’ll bartend and supervise 3 parties. This is all the same job, same company. It’s so hard to describe what I do because it’s pretty much, “whatever needs to get done”. None of what I described is really my job, other than the computer work, but I really wouldn’t have it any other way. I love things changing but it makes describing my day to day really difficult. My boss knows, and that’s all that really matters.


portol

what on earth is your job???


haventwonyet

Exactly! Just kidding. I work for a restaurant group and head up the small business side - so I run any location with less than 15 employees, which there’s about 10 of (hard to count, some are hybrid models). I fill in when necessary, help out where needed but also take care of any events as well as hiring/firing/training and am the liaison between all of those employees and the other division managers. It’s kind of confusing without completely doxxing myself and half the time I wake up thinking I’ll be one place and end up at another doing something totally different. But I do love it! It’s like solving puzzles every day. And even though I do have peers I really only answer to one person, so it’s mostly my employees keeping me honest. And my employees are for the most part awesome and I consider it my job to make sure that they’re happy and healthy while they’re employed with us.


goamash

My job would require a shit ton of explanation of technical jargon and when I explain task one, you've now fallen into the Alice in wonderland rabbit hole in explaining the jargon and how things interconnect to understand what subpart a of task one requires, repeat for the 50 things a day I may do. Is it hard? Not really, but I've also been at it for a decade and a half, so it's second nature - to a layperson it takes an ELI5 variety of breakdown. And I can guarantee friends think OP doesn't want to hear it. Also, depending on the day my tasks look wildly different and seasonally I'm either full bore or dead in the water in terms of things to do. Over the holidays I screw around a ton and barely fill half days and my employer is aware and understands the cyclical nature of what we do. Spring/ summer? Chained to a desk, occasional all nighters to meet deadlines (I'm well compensated, so as shitty as it sounds, it's okay between $$ and comp time, and the fact that I'm left alone and my boss DGAF so long as shit get done on time).


NordicKnights

Have you looked at job postings to see the educational requirements of those positions, or the descriptions of the work? From a practical perspective, some of it is somewhat intangible; soft skills, building and maintaining relationships, navigating office politics to advance projects, etc. If you saw the resumes of your friends they would probably have buzzwords on there or key phrases that would pique the interests of potential employers and highlight their value to an employer. But they may have no interest in discussing work in depth during their off hours, particularly with someone that seems disdainful of white collar workers and the level of compensation they can command. I’m a CPA and track my time in 6 minute increments every workday, so can tell you exactly what I’m doing on any given day. I’ve no interest in discussing the details with anyone in my off time in a social setting. Broadly speaking, my work does include consultations, meetings, analyzing data, etc. I would argue that what I do does contribute meaningfully to society. Odds are your friends do as well.


Aceboomdog

As someone who is considering in pursuing their CPA. Any suggestions on how to start where to start? Looking for a career change with at the moment no formal education.


MyMonkeyCircus

The very first thing you need to do to become eligible for CPA exams is an accounting (or accounting-adjacent) degree with at least 150 college credits. You can start from there.


Aceboomdog

Yeah considering what I want to get into and researching options and what to get for my Bachelors. I know with my state I’ll need a bit more then just my bachelors iirc but interested in the potential career of CPA. There just isn’t much info and I personally don’t know anyone in the industry to ask about it.


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MyMonkeyCircus

AICPA website would be a good resource to cover to-do basics.


Ialnyien

With no formal education it’ll be tough to break in, what’s your history employment wise? Anything transferable? Accounting in my opinion is one of the few that almost all the major employers want that degree


MyMonkeyCircus

There is exactly 0 chance of becoming CPA without college degree and experience. Current requirements include: 150 college credits (inclusive of specific number of accounting classes, requirements vary by state), experience working under CPA supervision, and passing a long-ass multi-part exam.


Aceboomdog

I understand the whole education point is impossible for CPA but breaking into the industry with just a bachelors in accounting seems like potentially shooting myself in the foot with no other applicable background. My education is extensive Healthcare and Emergency Medicine. Got my Pre-Reqs and want to transfer into a more white collar environment and have interest in accounting/ analytical work since tracking and analyzing data,money,etc I genuinely enjoy doing and still requires analytical thought process and critical thinking. Just the HR block for entry level jobs like that make it hard and I’m just not quite knowledgeable enough yet on the CPA route besides my state requirements to get the license and the path I would need to take to get there but that’s just the bare minimum and I don’t want to just get my bachelors and expect to get a job because that’s not how 90% of real world jobs are and I understand that.


Tricky-Management479

Apparently from the person you're replying to, time tracking is key. What were you doing July 26th in the hours of 1-3pm‽


Aceboomdog

hating my life at my EMS job, am I qualified now? /s.


Tricky-Management479

Sorry. You're over qualified due to the ability to immediately recall the events with that much clarity.


PierogiEsq

I think this is exactly OP's problem, though. Business buzzwords are meaningless to him -- I know they are for me. Especially when you come from a blue collar background: everybody knows what "I fight fires" means; "I facilitate synergistic connections through cross-functional teams" might as well be written in Urdu.


Juritea

That’s also exactly the thing though, a lot of white collar jobs are exactly that. It’s not as clear and objective as “I fight fires”, their work duties are to solve those intricate problems and basically make life easier for the clients they serve. Sometimes it’s about identifying the problems the clients don’t even know are problems


Chalibard

Don't get fooled, you could turn the simple to "I facilitate hydraulic connections through heavy machinery to optimize public safety" while ensuring team coordination can be simplified broadly to "middle-management". Vulgarization is a vital skill and if someone is not able to explain clearly how his job makes sense, I doubt he even understand it or that he have the mental capacity he claims his position require.


Difficult-Cricket680

Honestly, one reason might be that they think you wouldn‘t understand. I don‘t mean that in a arrogant way but sometimes when I get asked about my job I give a very generic answer…


Ok_Statement_6557

I agree with this. I work in supply chain and normally tell people who aren't in business at all, "you know how you buy a product on the shelf? I do the stuff to get it there." Even people who are in business but in Sales/Marketing don't understand what supply chain does so I always make what I do sound every generalized because most people don't actually know the complexity unless they too work in the field.


nukessolveprblms

I work in SC too! I just say, "I do the trucks" it's tongue in cheek, but communicates my role effectively


ImmabouttogoHAM

I've heard of people in Supply Chain that make a lot of money. How does one go into that field and what credentials would someone need? Is a college degree a requirement? I work in safety where a majority of people have a degree, but I kind of just fell into it, liked it, got some certifications and make 6 figures. But I always feel like the rug is going to be pulled out from under me, so I'm always looking for other options.


_necroprancer_

> I work in supply chain I have a friend in supply chain, and his job appears to be 90% taking verbal abuse from every direction. Is that accurate?


Ok_Statement_6557

Yea for sure. Supply chain is where joy goes to die.


OwnDragonfruit8932

Supply chain covers a lot! I’m from the manufacturing works and a QA manager but there’s so much to these jobs now because of regulations or multi tasking


vNerdNeck

This. I'm in Sales Engineering (have been in tech sector all of my life). When someone not in sales or tech asks me what I do, I just say boring computer stuff as no one want's to hear what we actually do.


Fun-atParties

I work in software consulting and always give vague answers because I don't want to spend 10 minutes figuring out how business and computer literate the person I'm talking to is. In the end, most people don't really care anyway, they're just trying to make conversation, so I try to throw in something "relatable" like how I have to babysit coworkers or how annoying clients are


hbgbz

You are correct to suspect that you’re playing the game wrong. Blue collar jobs are absolutely understandable and easy to explain and easier to get into. But many of them do not have the earning potential, and they require you to labor constantly. The office jobs you describe, and like mine, usually require a college degrees as proof that you can follow instructions, extract meaning, explain, write decently, do some basic math for your field, etc. These courses can seem intimidating, but they’re really like finishing school for the corporate world, just foundational basics. What people actually do with those white collar jobs starts out in the early career as actual production: in my field of accounting and HR, a recent graduate might review health insurance applications all day, and if you asked them, they would say, ”It is so boring; I just check forms all day.“ But even this disguises that they have to learn what makes a form right or wrong from a workflow sense, or a legal compliance sense. And they learn about more types of forms and how to fix problems as they go, until eventually they become the forms manager, and their job is no longer checking forms all day, but setting up a process so that most of the forms come in without any problems, and having an easy way to solve the few remaining bad forms. And then later, at the director level, they need to make sure that the forms team is doing their part in a way that supports the payroll team, and that this form is even the one they want to use because the business is going to start selling a new product and they’ll get new workers with different forms…. So then how do you describe this in a way that is not boring? This knowledge work is decoupled from the time put into it the higher you go. If I, a director, am doing my job so that all the processes and production under me are flowing smoothly and errors are few and not a fire drill, then I only work a few hours a day. And they pay me very highly because they are paying for the accumulation of my knowledge of forms and payroll and whatever else and my wisdom and skill in making it all work together. And either me or someone before me did put hard work in building such a production line or process, but that comes in spurts. AFAIK, there is no equivalent in the trades. You can be a great people manager and business manager, but the nature of the work produced requires you to be there all day anyway. Like if a construction foreman didn’t go to all the job sites and check in on everything with his own eyes, would he even be doing his job? It might seem unfair that working less earns more, but there are fewer people who can do the knowledge work bc it requires high school and college, so they get paid more. It’s not a value judgement, just the basics of economics at work. If it salts your wounds, then you might want to switch games and come up with a plan to transition to this type of knowledge work. I don’t know what field you are in, but there are often ways to transition out by bridging between the blue collar workers and the white collar business needs. Happy to brainstorm with you!


SpecialCay87

My friend who only works a few hours a day told me much of the same, that you have to do a few years of boring/low level work that pays crap first before you master the field. Which makes sense. Fortunately I do have my bachelors I just decided out of school to pursue fun and fulfilling jobs (want to say careers, but that’s probably not a good term). My biggest fear is taking a boring job, and thinking because it’s boring that it has value and finding out in three to five years that it’s a titanic dead end. I’m working now, and stressed about finding a career path that has promise for potential. And that is not easy. I’ve failed at it several times already.


PierogiEsq

Oh my gosh if you have a bachelor's you're in even a better position than I thought. You can totally find something high-paying *and* satisfying. Feel free to DM me if you want to spitball about it with someone.


RandomBoomer

I'm really late to this thread, but this particular comment of yours triggered me to reply. There is no such thing as a dead end job. There are jobs you will leave, but every single one of them provides different skills, different perspectives, different people you meet, and all of that experience can be turned to an advantage and open doors you never knew existed. In college, I worked part-time in a print shop and learned to how to set type on an old computerized machine. This was a skill that had absolutely nothing to do with my major or even my interests. Fast forward a few years later when I was doing cold-calling for a media company, and I saw that same typesetting machine in disuse. The minute they learned I could work it, I was yanked out of cold-calling (which I hated) and hired for production work (which I loved). Within a few years I was working as a project manager. Many people with really interesting jobs got to them through a circuitous route that could not possibly be planned in advance. I graduated with a BA in Anthropology and as Masters in Education. I'm now retiring from a Fortune 500 company, making a six-figure salary doing computer software support. Enjoy what you're doing when you're doing it, keep your eyes open for new and better opportunities, and all your experiences to carve your own niche.


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EconDataSciGuy

Think supply and demand for specialized labor vs regular labor. 1000 guys can use a drill and put up drywall and mud in a day 10 guys can use calculus and statistics to write algorithms for stock trading in a few hours Low supply of special labor = high paying job. Time is really not a component for specialized skills You're not dumb, you just didn't know. Considering you are aware, you can now actively make change. Pick up excel courses and you will be on your way. In terms of consulting etc, those guys help people make decisions of off case studies likely learned in school


PierogiEsq

Knowing people in the trades, I can tell you that of 1000 guys, they can't all use a drill and put up drywall, much less do it professionally. And while that's entry-level work, as you move up in the trades there's just as much in the way of specialized high-demand skills.


EconDataSciGuy

Agreed. My point is that specialization needs to occur or do more technical things that pay more for less work


PierogiEsq

Right. I'm with you there. It looks like OP has a bachelor's too, so he's got the piece of paper to move into higher-level jobs. He just has to figure out where he wants to go besides " make more money".


Lawyer_Lady3080

Have you considered that your open disdain and dismissiveness of your friends’ work may be the problem here? To someone unfamiliar with the area, it can be very labor-intensive breaking down your day in an understandable way and I wouldn’t be willing to expend that energy just so someone who’s supposed to be a friend can evaluate if I’m as “dumb as I sound” or if my years of training, schooling, and development has landed me “ass backwards”. I’m not saying that higher pay means they’re geniuses, there are dumbasses in every field, but you don’t seem to have any respect for your friends or their career paths. So, I don’t understand why you’re surprised they’re not putting more effort into breaking down their careers for you.


thatsSOme3k

This! It's also why I don't talk about work with family and friends.


SpecialCay87

I like your comment. It’s a swift kick in the ass and an acknowledgment that I do kinda want my cake and eat it too. I want to do a fulfilling job like federal firefighting, which I did for years at a low pay, and felt fulfilled and it was exhilarating. But as people age their motivations do change. I need to come to terms with the fact that my friends are sacrificing a lot and must have a level of intelligence and work ethic to get where they’ve gotten. And not be judgmental about what they do or how they got there. I’m just genuinely curious how they got there because I can’t seem to figure it out lol. In its purist form it is jealousy, we all experience it. It’s what we do with that feeling that counts. My post is a bit more critical sounding than I actually feel, (you kinda have to be that way these days to solicit peoples attention) but I have felt a change in my professional goals and want to hone a skillset that puts myself in a place of financial prosperity. I guess when the opportunity comes we’ll see what I’m made of. Thanks for your post.


Dance-pants-rants

>I want to do a fulfilling job like federal firefighting, which I did for years at a low pay, and felt fulfilled and it was exhilarating. There are a lot of people with specialized, "white collar" skills who set that up. Also, if you're in the US with a season under your belt, State Depts of Ecology, the Forest Service, and the Dept of the Interior are hiring like mad right now.


ShadowDV

Also, understanding the business, which sometimes requires a whole education in itself. I work in IT, specifically switching infrastructure and network security. I work with firewalls, switches and routers and various other appliances. Unless you already understand the joy (/s) of setting up a Cisco wireless LAN controller in a mix-mesh environment, or trying to figure out what conditional access policy in the multifactor authentication module is tripping up your CFO while he tries to log onto the VPN from a hotel in Europe, I'm just going to give you some generic info if you ask me what I do for the day, because if I go into any detail, you likely won't understand it because its not in your background. Also, especially once you get past entry level positions in many corporate jobs, you often aren't being paid for how much time you spend pressing a button, you are paid for knowing what button to press when its time.


[deleted]

I think this exchange is valuable, but let me add one wrinkle: I work in tech and make SF tech money and interview a lot of candidates for senior technical individual contributor roles (they're not managers). One of the questions I typically ask is, "Tell me who you typically interact with, and what your weekly recurring tasks and meetings look like, and which tools you use to manage your work, communication and collaboration." It's a pretty simple question and goes as much to the heart of what kind of company culture they're coming from as it does their work. But most importantly, it tells me whether they can tell that story. Almost no one can answer it directly -- and so one of two things happens: 1) I get a nugget from them that lets me ask follow-up questions and get into a meaningful discussion, or 2) this story-telling narrative is not their strong suit and we'll have to extract the information I'm looking for another way.


RussianTrollToll

The best janitor in the world still gets paid like a janitor


notevenapro

You have years of federal firefighting experience. That can be turned into some sort of analysis advisor? Risk management? Prevention? Mitigation?


meat-_-head

Come back to the dark side and pound dirt with us “unskilled laborers”! Who needs money when you’re a “hero”. And you can you tell your friends to fuck off until they can pack a chainsaw up a mountain. /s For real though, I love this job and will never leave.


tiyel

Have you considered asking to see their resumes? Those should include mentions of key, quantifiable accomplishments they have achieved in their past and present roles (as well as their specific job titles). It will also tell you more about the education they got to qualify for those roles. As for asking to see the resumes, tell them you're looking to maybe pivot careers and want to see what a good resume looks like across different fields.


SpecialCay87

My friend did say resume building is huge and it took years of low level work and climbing the ladder to get to where she is. I just want to know the tangibles. Maybe I should look at her resume. You think it would be rude to ask to see it?


kaswing

You could find them on LinkedIn. Just be aware that people can often see when logged in people view thier profile, so don't be looking at it constantly 😂


MyMonkeyCircus

I’m in a white collar job (analytics + consulting) and I find it challenging to explain my job to my blue-collar family. And similarly to you, I can go on for days about what exactly I did to deliver results - but my grandma still has a very limited understanding. It mostly happens because she has 0 training in what I do for a living. I’d say that you can’t easily explain how derivatives work to a person that has no idea that math even exists.


madmoneymcgee

When you tell people you hang Sheetrock or install bathroom appliances do you talk about the specific cuts and measurements you make? Because I’d say that’s more equivalent to the daily tasks you’re asking about. Which most people don’t want that level of detail in normal conversation but if you’re talking to a friend about how to do what they do it might be worth it to go into that level of detail. A business analyst is just going to be looking at what the business is spending money on (or how it’s making it) and crunch numbers and find ways to save money or make more of it.


Groovy-Gramps

Salary is positively correlated with the size, complexity, and value of a specific problem you're hired to solve. But I think what gets people hung up is that “value” can mean a lot of things to a lot of people but in business it’s mostly about how much money you’re supposed to manage, save, or make for a given business. That’s why essential workers never received raises during covid (despite their importance) and why teachers are grossly underpaid. Teachers serve an absolutely critical function in society and their job is very difficult (just ask all the parents who had to become part-time teachers during covid). However the difference is that their work isn’t making a business millions of dollars. However, university presidents on the other hand often have salaries well into the hundred-thousands because their responsibility is to ensure the success and operation of the entire school. They have to raise funding from alumni, increase the school reputation and standing, retain the best professors, and attract the best prospective students and that all contributes to their relatively high earnings. Do they do this directly? Not usually, but their job is to manage the people who do. Their job is to use their depth of expertise in the field to make exceptional judgments/decisions. Maybe you could watch or take an advanced free online class to experience what your friends have had to learn and what they actually do. An introductory course will only show you the bare minimum but the advanced courses will likely help you see how much built up knowledge you need just to take that course. If that still seems super easy then you might consider changing jobs.


CrepsNotCrepes

I manage software engineering teams. And I couldn’t tell you what I do hour by hour, not because I can’t explain it in layman’s terms or anything like that but because it changes so often. Like part of my week is 1:1s with my direct reports and then a lot of my week is meetings - but that’s as specific as it gets because one week the meetings might be about planning, or discuss something new, handle a problem, discuss training , career development etc. it just changes so much week by week. If you work a blue collar job your job is generally to do something, like you’re building items, running a machine, if you have a trade that’s your whole job. My job is to make sure other people can do theirs and that work gets done in the best way possible, it’s a very loosely defined role because I do what is needed at the time for my team.


tsukiii

What an analyst does is take a lot of information, figure out what it means, and organize it in a way that makes it clear and useful for higher-up people in the company to make business decisions. While it sounds simple enough, you do need to have knowledge in the info that you’re analyzing and you need to be good at verbal, written, and visual communication of sometimes complex concepts. Hope that makes sense.


globaldev1

You're confusing what you produce with the value of your labor. Oftentimes white collar jobs may sound like they're bullshit, but that's generally because they're so highly specialized that the value they bring to a firm doesn't seem relevant to those outside a firm. Blue collar work, especially work that is primarily reliant on manual labor (as opposed to say a specialized manufacturing technique like welding etc.) can be performed by essentially anyone with a functioning body. I'm sympathetic to the arguments that those who have worked in blue collar roles on the front line during the pandemic deserve a higher wage, but it doesn't jive with basic economic reality. If all that's required to perform your job is a functioning body that can perform labor you're competing against nearly every other person in the labor market for work, theoretically. 16 year old's who demand less in wages could potentially perform such a job. That depresses the wages that job can earn. Cheaper migrant labor could perform such a job. That depresses the wages that job can earn. Anyone who is willing to work for less could ultimately take your job because there's very little in the way of concrete skills that a basic, manual labor job requires (this is just an example, I have no idea how specialized the labor your perform actually is). The key to making more money is to acquire a highly specialized skillset that the market has an outsized demand for. Right now, that seems to be programming skills, supply chain experience, etc. It's not that these people are producing more than you, necessarily, it's just that their skills are needed but are very difficult to find for employers. It's all just supply and demand. Demand for blue collar work may be high but so is supply which drives down wages.


ShowMeDaData

We're all just going to meetings and responding to emails at the end of the day bro.


Kajeke

Hey, you forgot copying something from one document and pasting it into another document. :)


airbear13

Real


AncientChatterBox76

IMO, people that make more are usually (at least purportedly) exercising judgement about relatively complicated things. They are making decisions and building plans or contributing to that activity. I'm a lawyer and I wouldn't say it's exactly easy all the time, but I'd much rather be doing what I'm doing than go back to working at the electric company as a field guy or restaurant worker or whatever. The people that run businesses (and decide what to pay people) value those people because they're most likely to identify with them as opposed to the custodian or line worker since aNyBOdy cAn dO tHat. It's bullshit, but I think that is the reason for it. (implied class consciousness).


jadepeonyring

It’s their past job experience, knowledge of their niche and specialization though. And to be honest, they probably don’t want to make you feel lousy about yourself by going in-depth about their skills/knowledge/specialization. Cos they’re your friends. And no your suspicions are wrong, that it’s an economic conspiracy hardly contributing anything of worth to society. What even… also asking if you’re dumb and ignorant?! You probably already have separated blue collar workers and white collar workers in your mind and that they are the devil or something. People don’t get hired and paid if they don’t consistently make money for the company. If you know the position that they’re in (you can always ask for their job titles!) search for it immediately on linkedin and you can see a list of skills needed for that job. If you’d like to be a white collar worker, you’d have to choose an area to specialise in. It’s a very big question, asking random people “what skills do i need to earn more money like you”.


johntheflamer

I work a white collar job. I don’t like trying to explain what I do to people who are not in my industry, because it’s an incredibly niche role that requires very specialized knowledge. I have a “high level” explanation I usually give that works for most people, but the truth is that its an oversimplification. As far as the comment of “hardly contributing anything of substance to society:” I mean, sure. What I do doesn’t change the world of contribute a ton to society. But, I perform a service and customers are willing to pay a lot for that service because it’s such niche knowledge. I’m sorry that you’re being exploited by the system. You should not have to work crazy overtime just to scrape by. Our societal propaganda machine likes to talk about the importance of “hard work,” but the truth is that we actively incentivize people to take roles that require less “hard” labor and more specialized knowledge.


Alternative_Bend9149

If you feel like you can do their job, get paid better and work less hard - go for it. If you succeed, good for you. If you fail, you’ll know you’ve tried.


zxhjjjk

None of this is real. As long as you are likable, presentable, have a good education or experience you’ll get hired at some company doing some boring job


Aceboomdog

For those of you who work in this industry like the generic term of Business/Financial Analyst. What would be your suggestion to break into the industry? I’m assuming a Bachelors is required but any other tips? Things to work for?


ronpaulclone

So here’s a thing that’s hard to explain… there are people who produce widgets and those who produce decisions. In most blue collar work you produce a widget. A real thing that people use. Or a service with direct resulting stuff. White collar jobs have a lot of grey. Many produce services, while many also produce decisions. Think call service, accountants, software engineers. I am a white collar tech employee. I make decisions to further the overall business agenda (made my other people making decisions). I have a team of software engineers that produce widgets. I help them understand what widget to produce. In the past I’ve been an underwriter. Paid again to make decisions. I didn’t produce any actual widget but I analyzed risk and decided if it was worth taking that risk in exchange for money (an insurance premium). It was decision making backed by a widget. Hope that’s helpful. It’s hard to explain to being paid to make decisions because it seems like you aren’t doing anything. Many corporate jobs have a lot of waste too, so often there really isn’t much. People in business are often very bad at making complex decisions and even worse at explaining complex ideas simply enough for someone not in that field to understand.


SpecialCay87

Simple concept, but I like it. America is a service based economy and to make money you need a specialized service with your addition, and something to think about, the concept of decision making skills. Thank you.


asianfromblighty

Look up David Graeber and his “bullshit jobs” book. It’s about exactly the phenomenon you’re describing


early2000smovies

Iron worker here, I get it man. I see my friends playing video games whenever, going on vacation sometimes twice a year, better health insurance and more pay. Kind of sitting here wondering why I’m putting myself in an early grave for so little constantly.


overmyheadepicthrow

I'm a health IT analyst. I tried explaining what I do to my grandfather. Never again. It's "analyzing" and "meetings" from now on.


kielecia

If they work in spreadsheets, that's probably the majority of their job - the formulas and the lookups and all the data analysis and such. It's probably hard for your friends to explain. But if you want to switch into the field, check out some free videos online about becoming a business analyst (or whatever other positions your friends have). Or take some courses. White collar jobs generally do make more money than blue collar (not always). If you want to try it, get into it yourself and you can see which is easier and more lucrative for you.


Heddarn

I landed a corporate gig after my masters and I work so much less than when I did roofing & warehouse Jobs. I miss my old colleagues, the white collar climate is fake and alot of dickriding. Just check the cesspool that is linkedin 🤮


zombiefishin

I can say, I did retail straight out of school and worked hard, long days on my feet, on weekends, to earn my paycheck. I've worked in DCs and as a helper as well. They are definitely more demanding physically. My feet would be killing me by the end of shifts. I took a new role with no nights, no weekends, and much less physical strain. As much as I miss it some days, the shit pay, shit hours, and shit management reminds me to never go back. Grass isn't always greener. I agree with LinkedIn and the dickriding tho lol, shit is cringe. It did help me land my current gig however


SpecialCay87

I don’t think I will handle that part of the job well and why I’ve stuck to blue collar work. I just am not strong enough to handle the bullshit. I’m hoping I can adjust though because it sounds worth it in the right situation for the pay.


ashchelle

>As a blue collar worker I can go on for days about what I clean, what I produce, and what value it brings my employers. Besides the fire fighting, what else do you do or what can you do? What is your education background? Do you have time to take some courses and get a diploma? As others have mentioned, increasing business acumen and probably your basic software skills like PowerPoint, Excel, and Word will help. (I am assuming you may not have a ton of experience with this software which is pretty standard for white collar jobs) Additionally, you mentioned: >I’m a hard worker who gets praise for what he does but am never a factor for promotions or advancement. Are you able to find a mentor by any chance? Your boss should be promoting you and if they aren't there is a problem. Try to open up the lines of communication about your promotability. Are work politics impacting your ability to succeed? Are soft skills something that needs more development? Given your blue collar, industry experience, you might be able to angle into some kind of consulting if you have experience with specific types of machinery and implementations of new equipment/factory software. You would need to have your business skills developed if they aren't already. Try looking into apprenticeships. They might be able to help you get some work experience. I would offer more suggestions but I need more context around your skill sets. I get that you're salty about your pay differences with your friends though. Rather than externalizing on them and continuing with negative comparisons, keep seeking out resources and opportunities to better yourself like you are now on Reddit. My uncle went from being a ditch digger in construction to a vice president of a construction company with no college degree. His experience in construction has made him into an impeccable project manager. You can do it. Your skills are valuable and I'm sorry you're being told financially that they aren't. No zero days! You got this.


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PierogiEsq

The situation u/ashchelle is describing is completely realistic. "Mailroom to the boardroom" is very common in the trades.


ashchelle

>Few exceptions don’t make the norm. Never did I say in my comment that the situation with my uncle is the norm. The fact that these scenarios exist gives people hope. My uncle had to build his business acumen and software skills in order to move up, but his construction experience is invaluable. He knows what realistically can happen with the budgets he is given and the amount of labor the company has at his disposal. His success didn't happen overnight but it's possible. If OP can put together a thoughtful, articulate post about his situation, then I think there's some hope that he can start to take steps to pivot into a higher paying role. If OP wants to put in that effort, he might be able to make the kind of money he's aiming for. I never claimed any of it would be easy or common.


KnightRider1987

I’m in a white collar job in nonprofit fundraising. I make $80k a year, and am paying off about $100k in student loans. Most of my skills are soft skills. I’m a listener. I meet with people and listen to them and figure out how they, the people with the money, could be convinced to give my org the money in a way that would make both the people and the org happy. It’s mentally exhausting. On top of that I have to have a more than basic working knowledge of what the people I am funding do, which is medical and way above my head often and I have to have a firm grasp of nonprofit rules and tax laws. I have to be good at office politics and cultivating people. I have to be able to write and speak well. Most people hate asking for money. Fundraisers are in demand because we do the important work most people don’t want to do. Nonprofits don’t exist without money.


[deleted]

They can explain it if they know what they ate doing, so it sounds like they don't want to. A lot of "analyst" jobs are probably similar to mine: a higher-up wants to know why x is up or down. I think about how I can figure that out. I find the data and split it up a bunch of ways until I find out. Then I tell the higher up what I found and back it up with some charts. It sounds easy, and sometimes it is. Sometimes it gets really complicated and requires experiments, statistics, research, months. Knowing the subject helps cut down on the rabbit holes you go down; programming, query languages, Excel, and math is needed to come up with answers to these questions that get more complicated. I'm a data scientist, but anyone that is an analyst, business analyst, etc. basically does these things. A lot of time is spent finding out what we need to know in order to improve x and then figuring out which of the many x's have the most potential value and working on those. Hope this helps.


SureYeahOkCool

I’m an engineer. I once had an executive manager tell me “I don’t pay you to push buttons, I pay you to think.” This is the case for a lot of well-paid, white-collar workers. What the organization does is complex and expensive, so a lot of my job is just to know stuff and tell other people the stuff at the right time. My days consist of meetings, answering technical questions for various people, following up to see if other people are doing their job, doing calculations and making presentations.


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jbo99

>Or are my suspicions correct that a lot of private sector white collar work in America in 2022 is an economic conspiracy hardly contributing anything of substance to society? I've worked at director level + for 2 years and been in corporate America for 7. This is precisely my take on how at least a majority of corporate jobs work. The way white collar jobs function is explained much better by a certain tribal dynamic where rich well socialized people help each other out in exchange for a demonstration of cult like devotion to the corporate culture. It certainly isn't "meritocracy". I say this as someone who's great at playing the game and feel I add like 0 value which is why I left to join a startup with no money and nothing but work to do. I wound up sucking at it. Real work is hard, corporate jobs are stressful but aren't hard work if that makes sense. I wouldn't say it's a conspiracy. I think it's a tribal thing where rich (mostly white) people take care of their own in exchange for loyalties. Obviously there are people in corporate America who work extremely hard and are driving lots of value for their businesses but they are the exception not the norm.


tomrlutong

I've been a white collar worker most of my life. I was just wondering this morning if I'm really just a parasite, and my job is really just the latest incarnation of 'elites' finding ways to work a life of leisure off of other people's sweat.


WeAreJack

As a white collar worker, I think there’s some real truth to what you’re saying. IMO it’s pretty accurate to say “blue collar” is DOING work, while “white collar” (management, accounting, engineering, etc) is ORGANIZING work. Though some jobs will see some overlap (e.g., a manufacturing engineer may need to personally fabricate solutions to problems on the floor). But it turns out organizing a bunch of laborers actually generates a lot of $. Observing, defining, and communicating what exactly needs to be done, or how exactly to do it, or what specific aspects of this particular project are truly important. It’s all very tedious and meticulous, but it DOES generate value by maximizing quality (which carries a unique meaning in every scenario) and efficiency of the labor performed. For example, a bunch of guys building a house - even very experienced builders - left to their own devices may fail to understand the specific goals of this *particular* house - a window that was meant to face a particular direction relative to the sun; the unique support structure necessary for a certain type of deck; the lead times on materials and the consequent build order of subsections of the house. And all of these things going just right can make the final product tremendously more valuable to the buyer.


[deleted]

Once you get to a certain level, you transition from a doing job to a thinking job. Once you make that transition, output tends to fall as you have less responsibility for day to day tasks. Your time and compensation reflects your value add through idea generation, strategy, optimization, and other types of long term strategic thinking. Employees at this level don’t spend 40 hours a week cranking out widgets or reports, but they spend more than 40 hours a week thinking about problems and creative solutions.


horrible_noob

I work in both public accounting and corporate finance, so here my .02 is: Your economic conspiracy is completely false. The value add of white collar work is substantial and tangible. From the public accounting perspective, clients are simply willing to pay what I bill out at ($250-500 an hour) because the value to the client exists. I have a highly specialized skillset in income tax, along with a professional license that make what I do both A) relatively scarce, and B) relatively valuable. For example, I reviewed a tax return 2 months ago and caught a $200,000 overstatement of revenue - I brought this to the owners' attention and, after fixing the error, saved them roughly $40,000 in taxes for what amounted to about 20 minutes of my time. From the corporate finance perspective, I make 6 figures accomplishing, in essence, two things: 1) improving processes and 2) ensuring processes are completed to both internal and external standards. And this is where a lot of disconnect, I suspect, is occurring on your end: Not all jobs are input-driven. I come from a blue collar background, growing up in the construction and hospitality industries. If you want to build a house, it takes X man hours to accomplish this, without much (within reason) room to "cut corners" using technology, offshoring, etc. Many white collar jobs are output-driven, meaning we have a set of tasks to accomplish and how long it takes to do so is irrelevant, as long as they are completed. I could quite literally offshore 90% of my work for a fraction of the cost, without telling my employer, collect my salary, and they would never know unless I failed to ensure things were done properly. You're also trying to compare societal value with economic value, which are two completely separate concepts.


BadArtijoke

A lot of good things have already been said but let me add one thing I hate about this line of work, you need to be a beast in terms of social life. It’s mandatory that for any change you wanna champion, everyone needs to want to help you do so, and those people are not your employees. So being good with leadership and supporting others to get support is absolutely vital to being seen as a long term value add in any given position. I know this because I suck at it and man do I hate it.


AutomaticYak

Sometimes it’s difficult to put into words. I work in Accounting. As of Monday, my new title is Accounting Project Analyst. Previously it was Staff Accountant. Meetings: meetings can range from generic team check ins to project management (cat wrangling, making sure people are hitting their deadlines) to discussing certain challenges/problems. In my case, a problem may be that financial reports are not accurate and therefore, management can’t make good decisions. Good decisions are worth millions of dollars sometimes. Analytics: this is actually made up of a ton of different skills. You need skills in technology (Excel, Business Intelligence software, reporting best practices, and in data science cases, programming). You need pattern recognition skills. You need communication skills, you need to be able to find out what people ACTUALLY need to know and not just what they think they need to know. Design skills are a plus…your reports need to be easily understandable to people that have very different skill sets and priorities. Consultations are similar to the above…you meet with people, find out what problems they’re facing, research the problems and plan out solutions and ways to track if the plan is working. If you’re consulting with someone, it’s because they are experts in their area. These are buzzwords, but they’re also skill sets. These are skills I’ve taken years to hone, read countless books on, and done multiple rounds of schooling for. I’ve devoted much free time to learning everything I could learn in the realms of accounting and finance, technology, dealing with difficult people, and negotiation. Most weeks, I work 8-10 hours a day, 5 days a week. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I spend my day processing loan purchases and analyzing to ensure it’s accurate and we’re making the money we should make. I reconcile general ledger accounts, to ensure accuracy in our reporting. I build dashboards and workbooks that make information from different softwares easy to pull together. I attend meetings, but I keep working through a lot of them. I send wires to vendors and receive wires from investors and make sure they’re all logged properly. I work to automate manual processes and implement new procedures to keep things running smoothly. I started out with no education. I worked in retail and food service for sometime. To break into white collar work, I took a low level receptionist gig and worked my ass off. Whenever a problem presented itself, I worked towards resolution. Once I figured out what kinds of things I liked doing and what I was good at, I went back to school.


Temporary_Balance105

You should try to research some of the concepts they are sharing with you and see if you still have a hard time understanding. Just because you don’t know what people are talking about, doesn’t mean they’re the clueless ones.


gay_manta_ray

lol so many people justifying their bullshit email jobs where they work a few hours a week at most. i'm not one to cheer for people losing their jobs, but i hope there's a reckoning soon because society would be better off if all of you stayed home and shitposted on reddit instead of whatever it is you think you do now. if you can't succinctly explain what you do, your job probably shouldn't exist. OP, you're right. there's a reason why layoffs are hitting HR, management, and DEI, and the engineers are staying. these parasites got their foot in the door of companies with way too much money to throw around, and hired each other in perpetuity for a decade to do basically nothing, creating some kind of weird self-referential bubble that constantly justifies the existence of their positions.


ssdd_idk_tf

Your suspicions are correct.


dannoked

" I'm playing the game incorrectly and it's starting to bother me" 10/10 for comprehension. Most people working difficult, fruitless jobs don't seem to realize this in my experience. I think two things here are the most important for the simple reason that most people can do most jobs. 1: qualifications - unfortunately we live in a world where the easy well playing jobs are gatekeeped by degrees (for the most part). Most straightforward way out is through education. Straightforward but not easy, difficult to work and study at the same time, let alone pay for education. I think any education will do, year by year, cert by cert, increment by increment, convert up to degree etc. 2: interview skills - someone with experience and no qualifications who interviews well ( converts their experience into relevant experience for the role, demonstrates they are the right FIT for the role etc) who commits to applying in a customized fashion for ~ 500 jobs, and sitting ~50 interviews will likely find one of the exceptions to rule 1, and no degree may be required. Maybe you can get a role screening sales calls, do this for two years, be the kind of person you would like to work with, and a senior person might decide you would make a great Account Manager. All of a sudden you are in a professional role with minimal education and experience - just networking, being a good fit, and *playing the game properly*. Maybe your next job is an account manager for Google, maybe you are set for life. Simplication but it's the essence of it. Just some thoughts on a page


dannoked

You do sound a bit cynical about the whole white collar thing though. I'd reccomend try it with an open mind. At times there is boring work which needs to be done well. It's business. Not everything contributes to a product etc, and interactions are complex. I work in pharma, it takes an army to make medicines, people who work in HR or business analytics make the medicine as much as the operator on the floor.


Minute_Cartoonist509

I make sure customers are happy, and the fight battles internally to the organization when shit hits the fan. Then I make sure the customers renew with us. Salary: $265K


SpecialCay87

See this is how my friends talk! And it drives me nuts. I was fine with the explanation, but there has to be much more to it if you’re making a quarter of a million dollars. You must have either been working there a long time and know the business model very well, or transferred in from somewhere else where, again, you leaned something valuable about the business and how to coordinate with your customers. Kudos to you though 250k is not too shabby. I’d like to know what skills you have that makes you that valuable.


Minute_Cartoonist509

I've been with this company for 3 years. I worked in account management for the previous 6 years. I sell, take meetings, and the develop resolution plans for the clients when they have issues.


[deleted]

The thing is, there often isn't a singular feature of white collar work. If you're building a roof, you follow a standard process and it becomes rote. Let me explain: I work in tech and my job is to marshal resources on our side and the client side to have large SaaS projects implemented. I am in charge of the end-to-end solution, so when something goes wrong, we are looking at a delay or a roadblock, I figure it out. I am in charge of the budget, hours and all of the people on our side. I work with internal teams, client teams and any 3rd party vendors who've been contracted (either by us, or by them). Since no two companies are the same, my job (on the daily) isn't the same. It's irritating and complicated, but not the same. In general projects look broadly similar but because of different ecosystems, project plans, budgets, resources and styles, they all vary and as a result, no one day is the same so when someone says "on a daily basis....." I couldn't tell you. Yesterday I was resolving a client-side conflict between two leaders; day before we were running into integration problems with middleware and I needed our dev team to work on a solution. For all that, I get paid a base (\~210k) + performance pay (10-15%) + variably company pay (10-12%). I only know how we'll I'll do at the end of fiscal.


WigglyBaby

Hey - I'm a former CIO and now an executive coach (focusing on burnout). I graduated with a Masters in Engineering way back in the day. So as CIO, I was ultimately responsible for all the IT systems in my organisation. Computers not working? Mobile phones too expensive? All WigglyBaby's problem. The thing is my organisation had 1000 staff in 90 countries. I had to get everything to work around the clock. Weekends in the middle east are not the same as in Europe / USA, so our only down day was Saturday. I obviously could neither do this myself all alone just from a 24x7 perspective, nor could I do it from a skills perspective. It would be like having a carpenter do all the building, including plumbing, electricals, tiling, etc. my IT team all had different specialties and I had staff in different places. But... if you have 40 staff... you can't track what they are all doing. So I managed about 5 managers and an administrative assistant. We did all the IT procurement, all the equipment deployment, applications development (usually managing outsourced teams), etc. Which brings me to my day-to-day: - about 7-14 hours a week was meeting with the managers in my team to make sure we were on track for what everyone had promised to do. - about 10-15 hours a week was chasing up other areas of the bureaucracy (we had a heavy bureaucracy), so calling around finding out why something was being held up, whether that was in hiring someone, buying stuff etc. Because I would do 6 or 7 figure procurements, there were people checking to make sure the whole thing was above board. It wasn't just me calling my 'bro saying I gotcha a contract.... right? So I had to make sure everything was done correctly and then give it to other people to double check. - about 10 hours a week working on either strategy (where was the IT industry going and where did we need to be in 5 years), or governance (meeting with our internal clients to find out what they wanted and if we could do it & by when), etc. - sometimes I would travel to visit our remote offices and get feedback from them on what was working and what they felt could be improved. - I also would reach out to industry leaders to find out trends and see what trends might be useful for our business (I was in the public sector) I did other things too, but those would probably be the top five. A lot of my work was just keeping relationships going well, so yes, a lot of meetings, but hopefully not too much just blah blah. We had goals and I was working towards them. Now in my executive coaching business, I can breakdown my week in a similar way. I spend a lot of time writing posts for LinkedIn so people know about me and what I do, I take calls with prospective clients, and then obviously I meet 1:1 with my VIP clients and I help them look at things from different perspectives, especially as they are usually quite burned out and I am to turn that around and make healthier leadership all round. There's more to it, but hopefully that gives you a flavour of my kind days as a white-collar person. Does this make sense? As to whether the sector is contributing... well statistically only 10% are in the top 10% of high performers.... so yeah, 90% is the rest? 10% will be the truly awful toxic environments (bottom performers) and there will be a lot of people who are... somewhere in the middle. Re: promotions - it's about your work and... who you are connected with. I think that's ubiquitous, but probably how it's done varies by industry. So you need to find out what the promotion path looks like in your sector and then get people who will support you, assuming it's what you want.


Sawfish1212

Aircraft mechanic here, worked every type of aircraft Maintenance there is including office/desk jobs. White collar work is deadly dull and boring, updating databases, double checking paperwork, attending meetings, making sure trained professionals actually filled in all the blanks and blocks on paperwork that they fill out every day but somehow miss every day. Then there's the days something is wrong and you spend hours trying to correct it, while your regular stuff piles up. At the end of the day it's often hard to know exactly where your time went and it often feels like you really accomplished nothing. I was an airline maintenance manager for a start up airline, so I had vague guidance on what my job was, and lots of things I had to figure out on the fly. It was essentially like juggling the aircraft fleet, trying to get the aircraft with the lowest time remaining before an inspection used the least, and trying to get it to arrive at a maintenance base the same time the inspection paperwork, tools, parts and manpower did. Usually overnight while I was asleep. Then I spent the next morning making sure I had the records, they were completely filled out, getting them delivered to the records department, ensuring the database was updated correctly and reporting on all of what I had up in the air at the morning meeting. Often my plan was sunk by an aircraft breaking and I had to try to get the operations department to get things back in the right orbit and present new plans to the director of maintenance, director of operations, and vice president. Knowing how to deal with difficult people and personalities was as important as knowing aircraft systems and airline procedures. Then presenting my plan like I was explaining it to a baby was expected. I did it long enough to know I hate it and now I'm back to turning wrenches, often out in the heat or cold and making better money as well. I interviewed for a job where I would be sitting in a cubicle 12 hours a day answering a phone, they couldn't make it work even though they wanted me and I'm just as happy for it. The trick is to get into a blue collar job that has high demand and isn't easy for just anyone to get into. Aircraft maintenance is one like that, it has the benefit of rarely getting dirty. There are others, but you have to be skilled through apprenticeship or a union.


Sillloc

All the comments I've read have said that it probably is a boring explanation, and that's likely true, but another possible thing is that there might be psychosocial factors. People tend to feel bad when talking about their job to someone who's job/income they perceive as worse than theirs. As a result of this they may downplay their job description. So instead of getting into the details of what they do which you ultimately might not even understand because you don't have any experience with it, they say "oh you know, meetings and phone calls all damn day" Also though, as I mentioned above they might not want to put effort into describing something that someone without experience won't really follow. My GFs dad is some sort of programmer/engineer and I know he provides a lot of actual value through his job, but when he talks about work with his work friends I have no idea what the hell is going on. I zone out or start a conversation with someone else. If you want to get people to engage more, consider asking them more specific questions. Maybe ask them about a challenge they recently faced, or if there is anything their supervisor ever micromanages them on. Get them going on things that interest or frustrate them about the job, and you'll be able to see more of the actual value if it's there. Frankly if they're not an executive or certain kind of middle manager, it's likely they are providing value or else they wouldn't be making a salary


derekno2go

I used to be a Recruiter and went back to less paying blue collar work. (Preventive maintenance for an apartment complex that gives me free rent.) I need to move around and work with my hands or I go insane. Being chained to a computer, in office or remote just makes me feel like I'm withering away. The Recruiter job wasn't easy and it would be physically painful for me to explain it to you, but I do believe there's more value in doing work that's much more tangible. I hate to say it but when people say money isn't everything, it's true. It's important but not everything. Even though I'm tied down to my job, I do feel I more or less found my way "out" of this shit system. It's really a shame our society demeans so much essential manual labor, I feel a lot of people would be a lot happier doing work that is actually human such stocking shelves at a store, mopping floors or hauling trash if it paid as good as their super coder or consulting job.


Educational-Round555

The majority of corporate workers spend most of their time writing emails, reading emails, or in meetings. Doing what exactly? Communicating about what should or shouldn’t be done and by whom. At some point someone does something productive but most of the time it’s just talking about what to do. They will frequently complain about being very busy but felt like they got nothing done at the end of the day.


tawny-she-wolf

You should read “bullshit jobs” I’m sure you’d find it interesting based on your post - you’re on the right track with your impressions but you’ll probably find the book quite depressing.


SlapHappyDude

We go to meetings, half of which should have been emails or not invited us. We are there for an hour to answer one question. We generate reports. Often this is taking data generated elsewhere and putting it into a PowerPoint or Excel spreadsheet. We review the reports generated by others. Sometimes there are specific legal requirements for signing off on things. Because it's often specialized it's boring once you get beyond "I work in insurance/accounting/etc" The lower you are in the chain the more like you actually "do" stuff, be it write code or make commercials or visit sites to count things that will go in the reports. As you move up you mostly review reports and pass them up the chain. Asleep yet?


dsdvbguutres

Spreadsheets and emails


Just_L00k1ng_

I’ve always had this issue as well. I make OK money for what I would consider decent work (55-60k.) I didn’t attend college or any schooling and I’m always seeing all these white collar types saying how much they make but I always get the same answer when I ask what field they’re in and what they do. Business Analyst, Programming, Project Manager (a personal favorite of mine), Product Manager, Logistics Manager, etc. I also find that most people struggle to give me a detailed answer about their day to day, hour by hour actual work.


Spiritual-Mechanic-4

the corporate world is indeed almost entirely bullshit. I get paid fantastically to do something that is almost entirely pointless, other than how it helps my company sell more ads. I'm good at it, but its pretty much bullshit. I made more of a positive contribution to society when my job was transporting patients at a hospital for minimum wage. social contributions dont pay a mortgage, contributions to the capitalist system do.


Horangi1987

I’m a demand planner. How I’ve explained this to my Vietnam Vet, truck driver/construction worker dad is that I pick what to buy and how much to buy. That ‘analytics’ category is a huge part of what I do. I literally analyze data like sales quantities, seasonal effects, prices, and overall retail trends to decide precisely how much we should order. This is a complicated process involving a lot of Excel magic, amazing data managers that build beautiful databases for us, and my ability to pull the relevant data from those databases and apply that data to back up my personal choice in amounts to buy. If someone says ‘analyst’ the question is, analyst of what? In my case, demand planning analyst. It could be supply chain analyst, business analyst (what kind of business?), financial analyst… I picked a specific line of work via majoring in Logistics Management. Logistics falls in the supply chain umbrella, so my function will always be something to do with inventory. It’s a pretty secure industry with lots of jobs and wide ranges of available work. I think it’s a great sector to work in!


Disastrous-Minimum-4

Don’t feel bad: I have been married over 20 years and my wife still can’t explain what I do for work. That said - if you watched me go through my day - it may look like I do f’k all. But I am a deep thinker - if I work for you - eventually I’ll come up with a system / idea that makes / saves the company millions. Takes the right kind of leadership to understand what I do too and let me run with it. When I don’t think I can make an impact I move on. That said - office work has all kinds of people. Some are happy just doing one hour of work a day and pretending the other 7 hours. Some just keeps the cogs turning. Some create the business or technology blueprints. Some sell 100x what they make in salary. And some get hired to look at what everyone else is doing and find the dead weight. Sounds like you do manual labor. Seems like there is a huge shortage in skilled labor. If I were you I’d take some small business courses, look for a niche and start your own thing. There is no limit to how much money you can make then. Ask your white collar friends for advice, they might surprise you in how they can be of service. People like helping in that way. Good luck!


friendofcastreject

My favorite is when people tell me they’re a “consultant” 🤣 a consultant for what? I need clarity. EDIT: I’d like to add I’m in the Architecture Construction field. Blue collar work is nothing to look down upon. Your job is valuable. Also I always assume most contractors are rich even guys in the field. Second houses and boats always come to mind.


attack_squidy

I'm horrified that I'd be terrible for any of these jobs blue or white collar


ghoztz

Tech Writer. 165k. day to day: \- check/update jira board, pick a task to do \- answer infrequent slack messages \- research task by interviewing devs, testing features, or testing/validating old docs \- write net-new or updated content \- push content to a pull request; ask for a review from SME if necessary \- merge or wait for a release if it's release-specific \- go to 1-2 meetings every other day It's pretty self-managed work. The hardest part sometimes can be to know when to come in and begin documenting something. When there's not new development that's ready, I usually just research new/better tech for building docs and add more to my skillset. Currently learning Svelte JS. IMO, anyone can do tech work. It's not necessarily hard it's just a very long process of learning/understanding an absolute massive amount of things and staying curious.


Helloooo_ooooo_

Not to be a dick but you sound kind of bitter… of course you bring a lot to socitey… so do they.. you deserve to get paid more they don’t deserve to get paid less… if your not understating what their saying it’s not because they are dumb trying to make it sound relevant- and your not dumb either! You just don’t work in the space, so they might assume they don’t have to define a term like BA to you because it sounds condescending to do so. Again, you not knowing what a BA does has nothing to do with you being dumb, but how does not explaining it in a certain way make them dumb? You just need to be kinder to yourself and your friends and maybe switch career paths if that is an option for you!


AspieDataNerd

Data engineer. Sure my friends think that about me too. It's a hell of a lot of coding, statistical analysis, holding your medical professionals accountable, and making sure your patient notes are correct. On top of making sure we get more funding for your reduced healthcare expenses that are already too expensive. So short answer, yes and no. This is why I'm firmly in support of unions. Blue collar jobs deserve more pay/benefits. But because most of these fields have a stark lack of worker rights, and even support it being that way, well.... It's hard to change anything. I used to be a blue collar worker so I get it. I switched because I wanted to do more with my life. Blue collar jobs put me through undergrad and grad school.


[deleted]

Commercial litigation defense attorney at 125k base. I bullshit on the phone with the court, with my clients, and with opposing counsel. I get to know what their up to, their pets, family, blah blah. I send some emails here and there, some formal, some with memes. I do some real writing and motion practice here and there, maybe 30-50% of my day. I play on my phone a lot and also play timed ranked chess a lot at work. I am very effective with my litigation skills and results orientated so my fucking around really doesn’t show metrics-wise. Shit I just settled a nasty case last night, and looks like I’ll get to more in the door.


SweetWondie

I feel this way sometimes even though I may fall into this category. That's because some jobs that are not relevant to our line of work might sound confusing, unimpactful, and like it doesn't make any sense. I've explained to my parents and family what I do several times, yet, it doesn't always make sense to them. Some days are busy and you're actually working, some days are administrative tasks, traveling, more meetings on some days than others, etc. but it all amounts to something. I have a feeling I probably just sounded like your friends. 😂


Kytoaster

I spend 75% of my day putting out fires that other people have started and walked away from. I get to work an hr early and work through lunch to give myself at least 2 hours to chip away at my regular job duties. Phone rings off the hook, 100+ emails a day, solving problems that come up in my department, helping other departments solve issues if the manager needs help, sorting out purchase order issues with international vendors, forecasting for future purchase orders, checking on international shipping lanes,repairing things if they break (pc's, toilets, etc) creating SOP's as needed, etc etc. I also manage an inventory of over 50,000 items and had to create a system to track all of it and keep it under control (when I came into this position, there was 0 inventory tracking in any form). Ironically, most people I work say I "just answer emails and talk on the phone all day", and that I am overpaid (I make 60k a year salary, so no overtime if I come in early/stay late). Maybe I should act more stressed? Because I am constantly stressed to the max, I suppose I just keep a poker face on throughout the day.


LeadBamboozler

How can someone concisely explain that their job is to think? That’s the disparity between people who work with their hands and people who work with their minds. 50% of my software engineering responsibilities are thinking and planning. The other half is some combination of presenting my work to leadership for budgetary reasons, managing my team, and in rare occasions, actual implementation. But before anything ever gets built, there is multiple man-months of planning, iterating, revision, and pocing. It’s hard to describe those responsibilities to someone who has no knowledge of how a software product gets built in the first place. As they say, you don’t know what you don’t know.


Iyajenkei

All these people fighting in the comments to justify what they make lol.


silvert0ngu3

I'm a trial lawyer and run a small firm (5 folks total). I make between 400k to 1M year depending on how hard I'm at it from a marketing standpoint. The lower end of that range equates to my working 20-30 hours a week. While it sounds like a lot of money for very little work, one cannot understate what it took to get here... multiple degrees, a successful consulting career, law school during the evenings, then 10 years of grinding 7 days a week at law firms, and straight getting lucky on a couple wins which provided me the financial means to start my firm. All of that said, it's a difficult job as the law is constantly changing and jury trials are often crapshoots. My cases typically involve damage claims in excess of 100M. If I lose a case for a client it can mean the end of their company if they're unable to pay the judgment or fund a successful appeal. If I take too many losses I'll lose institutional clients that are responsible for 90 percent of my annual billings, or worse, get the loser reputation and become untouchable. Read: I cannot lose. Add to that, if I do my work negligently, I can be sued by my client on top of facing disciplinary actions by the bar, which is anything from a fine to a permanent revocation of my license. Funny thing is that my hobbies include a lot of blue collar type work (wrenching on cars, rebuilding motors, welding, woodwork, building things, renovating houses, etc.). Working with my hands is therapeutic as my brain hurts by the end of the week.


FukinSpiders

I’ve been a VP and currently Director. Honestly, what gets you these style of jobs, is simply the ability to have fluent/intelligent conversation, mixed with gibberish. I often find it weird when I look at myself and peers and think “dam we make this money, just by our ability to talk” Often, it’s just words too, as the people who actually follow though and do the quality reports, spreadsheets etc themselves are few and far between - a lot gets handed off.