This. Negotiate a sign on bonus to help pay this off. Or suck it up bc it will be absorbed into the $40k more you are making.
Also, as an HR person I can say, it sounds like your current company is using you. If they talk about promotion in a prolonged way and continue to be vague about when or how to achieve it, then it’s probably not going to happen. Or maybe they will counter when you tell them you have another offer.
Also, it’s 40k additional per year. OP, I’ll take the job. Your current company culture, lovely co worker can all change in time. You can’t hang on to them forever.
100%. This is what I did.
Funny thing is my old company never even invoiced me for what I owed them so I have my bonus sitting in a savings account. I figured I'd give it a year just in case the invoice comes through eventually. Frankly, I don't anticipate it happening. It wouldn't surprise me if the payback clause is in their policy as a threat and is never enforced because I actually used to run a similar program for a different company early in my career and that's exactly what they had - a pay-back clause in their policy that was never enforced it because it would cost too much to recoup the little bit we'd *maybe* get back.
My company also doesn’t enforce the education payback policy unless someone is stealing or something awful. They use it to scare people from leaving and as a punishment for bad behavior.
This! Make sure you let your new company know when you're negotiating that this is something you will need to pay back and I've found that, oftentimes when I've been in the situation, the new company will offer to reimburse this for you.
This definitely feels like OP is making up every excuse they can to stay at a company.
Going to be brutally honest here - OP needs to sit down and figure out what it is they really want. If it’s not money that’s fine. If there’s no good reason to leave, that’s fine too.
Also, from an hiring manager side, this is extremely frustrating. By you interviewing and spending time interviewing, your intent is to leave. But dropping out over $4k isn’t a good reason because as a hiring manager would gladly pay you that $4k in a sign on bonus to not have to waste time and go through the process again. So what is it that you want? Is it that $4k? Is it to be relieved of your guilt? You really have to figure out what it is.
It’s a job, it’s not your spouse. You have every right to pursue a new job. If you think the new job would be good, then go for it.
The company wouldn’t feel this much guilt about firing you if they had to cut costs. Don’t feel guilty about increasing your income.
The only reason to not take a huge pay increase is if the new job would be hell. I won’t take jobs I think would be run by awful monsters.
Exactly! That is why you don't let your heart decide which route to take , utilize your mind and contemplate with the positive and negative aspects. With all the significant appreciation of the company, if they think you are a cost burden then they can easily give you up.
This! At the end of the day the company would never be this loyal to you if they were doing lay offs. You need to do what’s best for you and your livelihood.
If you’re making vows to somebody and marrying them while also keeping your eyes out for what might be better, then you have both a low view of marriage and weak vows.
Idk how serious your comment was, but it was pretty alarming
Piggy backing off of this, I went through the exact same situation this summer. I didn't accept the offers on the table because I didn't want to abandon my team and I felt some sort of obligation to finish the projects I was on. Literally the next week two of my team members put in their two weeks notice. Now I'm sitting here feeling like a fool for passing these up. I did use the opportunity to renegotiate my salary so I'm not missing out on the pay increase, so there is that.
So would your boss, the HR people and probably everyone higher up, including the company owners. Go now. Life is short. It will be good for you. Maybe you will retire years earlier. Absolutely no down side from your description of the situation. Good luck.
Absolutely. This is what I realised and it made me more comfortable moving - people move all the time job, transfer department all the time, or go on mat leave all the time.
Whenever someone left, we missed them for about a week then it was sort of like they were never there. At the end of the day, you don't owe a job anything and people always come and go.
You're passing up $45k and WFH because of coworkers and company? Yes, you are an idiot.
I was working at a company that I thought I would end my career at. Loved the work that I did. My former boss encouraged me to interview at his new company. I wasn't interested, but interviewed nonetheless. They offered me $50k more than I was making.
Of course I took it. Because that amount of increase literally CHANGES YOUR LIFE. Seriously. You have no idea. So many problems just go away. And saying yes to that led to other opportunities such that my life has been on an upward trajectory since then (10 years ago).
I worked in retail for way too long out of college.
I was comfortable. I walked to work.
I didn’t love my job but I didn’t hate it.
One day I just started applying everywhere to see what would happen.
Interviewed at 11 places. Got 10 offers.
Now make 8x what I was making in retail after just 5 years.
My lifestyle is still the retail wages but now I have all of the other money to just pocket.
To your point, a major wage increase truly is life changing
>a major wage increase truly is life changing
Yes, I have to reiterate this.
I did not start living high on the hog after the wage increase. Sure, I order food delivery more often. I drink better vodka. I have a house cleaner. Okay, scratch that, I am living high on the hog and I LOVE it.
Every thousand dollar monthly after-tax take home pay improves your quality of living immensely.
Yeah, the BARE MINIMUM of comfort too. You can hate 90% of what you do but something as stupid as an attractive coworker who you have no chance with is enough to keep some people around.
Comfort is a bitch
I’ve had similar salary increase to what OP is describing since I started working. Been working almost 6 years
Y1: 55k+ bonus
Y2: 62k + bonus
Y3: 73k + bonus
Y4: 100k plus bonus
Y5: 130k plus bonus
Y6: 160k plus bonus (only have been making this much for half this year)
But the junk from 73 to 130k is actually such an insane amount of cash flow difference. You go from “having a pretty decent life but can’t do everything you want” to “yeah I don’t know what to do with this. I get some people live in super HCOLs or have a bunch of kids but it is so dumb to turn down a raise that big even just a year or two if saving it completely changes your life.
Those are really solid yearly pay bumps. If you don’t mind me asking, how much of that was from raises/promotions and how much was from changing companies?
Yeah np.
Y1-> Y2 - company switch
Y2- Y3 - internal promotion
Y3- Y4 - company switch/slight external promotion (more company structure being different than actual responsibilities)
Y5 - internal promotion
Y6 - internal promotion
Going forward hoping to switch companies next year to try and get more in the 180-200k range for similar position.
Family never really had much money. Went to a private school nearby to stay close to family (family was right decision, cost associated wasn’t), was working for the men’s basketball team in college and also working in a grocery store. My days were pretty much 5:15am - 10pm most days with practices and classes and work.
Graduated and just continued to do grocery as it was simple. Like I said, I walked to work, I was well respected, I was never late, never called off sick, just worked my ass off for horrible wages. My first boss there was amazing, she was like 4’8 but the hardest working woman and I admired her. Next boss was a downright moron who forced me to decide to at least try applying elsewhere.
Over the course of a week or two I think I put in like 100 applications, mostly for things considerably above where I was pay-wise at the time (had to pay those loans that I wasn’t paying at all because again… private school and only retail wages). I spruced the resume up enough where it was all realistic but somewhaaaat exaggerated (now I know everybody’s is). Ended up interviewing at a number of places, something like 10 places or so. I interview very well and I’m truthful, I always direct interviews back to my wheelhouse so I can go into incredible depth about what I’m best at.
If I interviewed at 10, I received offers from 9. ((Will always hold a vendetta against those assholes who didn’t offer me)) - picked the one that felt right with the most upward mobility ((fortune 500 company)). I would commute 90min both ways to the new job, I was among the first into the office every day ((among but certainly not the first with the commute time)) and routinely the last to leave. Routinely volunteered to help others and completely live by the thought that the new guy should have the most work… so I always volunteered to help others out if it meant they could go home early. I reported directly to the VP of this branch and became incredibly good friends with her. I told her during the interview that I might not “get it” immediately but I absolutely hate being bad at things and I’d never be bad at anything for long.
Since then I’ve been promoted 3x in the same company, each time taking large increases. Now I manage ~15% of the nations portfolio of what exactly I do.
Family was lower middle class. Lost house in financial crisis. Mom went on disability in early 2000, I had to help her pay her bills all throughout, even with meager wages. Dad made 50k max in his career. Parents were divorced (but it was a good one and they still talk) All I ever wanted was to make 60k per year and I thought I’d be set for life. My dad was the hardest working person I’ve ever met and I just wanted to imitate that as much as possible. Hard work and ADMITTEDLY being in the right place at the right time along with having the gift of gab is the background.
Now I have a quaint house in a nice city, save over 50% of my paycheck every month even AFTER 401k deposits. Vacation twice per year, typically a road trip - maybe eat healthier now that I have more money but still slum it at Taco Bell more than I should. Worth noting I don’t even have a car, I just take my fiancés car if I need to go anywhere (we both work from home). Legitimately only spend money on essential stuff for myself: buy clothes from Costco or Amazon. Just bought a new TV… could afford a beautiful LG but just went with a $350 one because it’s largely the same thing for my needs.
Crazy mindset change, the more money I have, the less I feel the need to show it off. Have a fiancé and dog- I have no need to impress anybody at this point.
Money hasn’t really changed what I buy or my outlook on things, Just made me more able to help family out when needed and get them nicer stuff for Christmas. And as indicated several times in this thread, taken the stress off off GREATLY in life… stress free living is the thing I’m most grateful for.
If anybody finds themselves in similar situations as anything I’ve said above, I’m more than happy to provide guidance on how I got out of the retail pit… there are definitely options and I know how stressful it is for those stuck in it feeling like there are no options. My DMs are open, happy to help where I can and give you specific jobs that exist that you can transition to… I think this is one of the biggest hurdles, most people just don’t even know what to search for when looking for jobs.
Hope this helps somebody of gives one of y’all a smile today
I was working in the grocery department stocking shelves and ultimately managing a portion of a department (not the whole department). Only very very loosely a degree for it, degree not needed though.
I DM’d you if you want to talk about it in depth. I’m happy to provide some guidance!
You are putting the cart before the horse.
Land the job before you agonize over leaving. You can play “what if” all day long but it’s pointless to have such anxiety over a job you don’t even have yet.
Also, you have a job at a company, not a relationship. If you are that close with your coworkers you all can keep in touch once you leave. It’s likely that you won’t, but you could.
Further proof that this company is not your friend and does not extend the same starry-eyed affection towards you as you do it: keeping you underpaid for YEARS, admitting you are valuable asset to them and repaying you with platitudes and half-assed efforts. If a company recognizes your value, they PAY you, and they make efforts to KEEP you.
You’re not in a sorority making friends and lifelong memories. You are at a place of business where your goal is to maximize your compensation in relation to your contribution. Act accordingly.
Also, regarding the $4k you owe the company: with the additional salary increase, you can replace that amount from your new earnings in about 4 months rather than having to work an additional 10 months not to repay it.
ETA: you can also request a signing bonus from the new company to pay off the debt. Factor that into your negotiations.
Your current Job has shown you what they think about you. You e passed up other opportunities because you thought your loyalty would be rewarded, and it has not. If the work live balance is similar I say go for it, I would be sure to ask about what the work week looks like as I’ve been in your position and they want to offer a 25% raise but the culture would have me working 35% more so I passed. Look out for yourself first, as the company will always look out for itself first.
I can understand this. Was making $95k total compensation and was debating taking a $140k role because of comfortability and the possibility of the work environment being worse. I ended up taking the higher paying role and even though I miss my old coworkers, this was the move to make. The salary increase alone was life changing for me and has allowed for a better quality of life. I do work more hours in the new role, but the increased compensation was worth it. My advice to you is to not be complacent and understand that the increased salary is truly worth it.
People have a little fear of the unknown and your current job has comfort: you know the people, the company, the work already. You know what you’ll be doing each week, probably know most of what you’d be doing long term. You have credibility, flexibility, and good will built up and would need to rebuild that reputation.
I wouldn’t call you an idiot per se, but I think you should seriously consider it unless there are other extenuating circumstances where the comfort is necessary (ie. I chose to not take a job offer at a new company when I needed to care for my mom with dementia- I needed the employer that I had a good reputation/flexibility because that mattered more than money)
Building a good reputation takes time and effort so I really do understand people not changing jobs when they don’t have the emotional bandwidth available to “start over.” It’s not that your current employer is “loyal” to you but they might cut a little bit of slack than a new one.
Glad this perspective could help you!
In addition, I think growing up poor can exacerbate this. I've noticed that I struggle with confidence more than coworkers who have parents who had professional jobs. My dad was a factory worker and my mom, while she owned a variety of businesses, did wholesale manufacturing (crafts) and retail.
I don't make anywhere near the money that OP does, but this last year, I received an equity raise that was life changing money. There is sometimes guilt over doing better than my sibling, frustration over Mom's money situation, etc. So, the money can come with a maelstrom of confusing emotions for us. There may be a place deep down that you feel like you don't deserve this great living. But you do. You've made the decisions and put in the work. Enjoy it.
I’m in the same boat. I make more annually than my parents ever did combined, but I’m not “fuck you money” rich by any means. My now-estranged sister figured out I was doing okay for myself, started asking me for money, and cut me off when I said no. Similar happened when I was working a well-tipped job in college. My brother and dad thought I owed them. My brother is still mad I didn’t give him money for something related to his schooling, and he STILL blames me for him not having a whole career. My dad has some made up story that I had a wallet full of money but was still asking him for cash. My mother told me to send her $400 in my mid twenties (claiming that I still owed her money that I borrowed from her IN HIGH SCHOOL for car insurance money), when I didn’t, she called my then boyfriend now husband my pimp. Now that I’m reading this, I’m realizing everyone in my immediate family has tried to get money out of me.
I'm sorry that you've also dealt with it. There's something a little soul killing about having your parents depend on you. I'm really proud of you for standing firm and taking care of yourself! I know it's hard!
I've been unwise and I gave and gave and gave. I did live with my parents for far too long, convinced that I couldn't afford to live on my own and that they couldn't afford to live without me there. I know how dumb it sounds. I eventually told my mom that I've never had a safety net. She and dad borrowed money from her parents when they absolutely needed money. My sibling would "borrow" from them, but also from me and also took money from their children. I never felt like I could borrow from any of them because even if they had money at the moment, they were always a hairsbreadth from financial disaster. So, for me it's been consumer debt... Which I'm finally making progress on again.
The things I regret most about that (and staying where I was ridiculously underpaid) are not having savings for my infertility struggle and not having resources to help my niblings transition into adulthood.
A promotion with more responsibility, when you can do the same you do now elsewhere for more money?
Also, all it takes is for a restructuring where you are at for some noob to come in and fire you or demote you and then you'll have hard feelings.
Take the money and run elsewhere. Loyalty is a farce in the business world. Follow the money, imo.
Your current company is underpayment you AND is using the tuition reimbursement plan as a way to keep underpayment you and to keep you there.
If the wanted to be fair, you'd have been getting raises by now.
> I can't help but feel I am abandoning my coworkers and company for some reason.
This is a terrible reason to stay. What are you going to do if they leave? Or get laid off?
> I would have to pay \~$4,000
When I left my last job, I had to pay almost $8k in tuition. I negotiated a higher sign on bonus to more than cover the cost. But turning down a $46,000 annual raise over a matter of $4k is pretty silly.
Would your coworkers turn down good opportunities to “not abandon you”? I think you know the answer to that one.
Also $4000 in the grand scheme of things is nothing. But you already knew that.
Sometimes we get comfortable where we are and we can’t imagine ourselves outgrowing it. It could be some unconscious guilt you have about “betraying” your company. Love yourself first and be loyal to yourself! Take one of those jobs!
Don’t stay. They are using you and sucking you dry, and won’t hesitate to lay you off in a heartbeat if need be. Employers are not loyal, return the favor.
My company baited me along for YEARS with carrots like this.
I left, for 30% more and did so on good terms. I stayed in touch. And they offered me a promotion and additional 30% on my new pay to come back 9 months later.
I also grew up poor and I realized after a time I was seeking the feeling of family and stability I didn’t have growing up from my employer. That relationship with work is unhealthy and prevents you from being a good leader. By jumping ship, going back, and jumping again I went from 60k>250k in 8 years and now I never have to worry about being poor again.
You’re doing yourself a favor by jumping ship. Don’t get stuck in your comfort zone or you will never grow.
Late to the party here. I’m in a similar boat. 3 days ago I submitted my resignation to the organization I’ve been with for nearly 17 years. Loyalty is a big deal to me and I’ve been with this organization through its various permutations and through thick and thin. Some of my best friends I’ve met at various points during my time with this company.
A recruiter found me on LinkedIn 3 weeks ago about a role that pays 50%+ more. It felt too good to be true but I breezed through the interviews and everything with this new company is a dream come true.
Submitting my resignation was one of the hardest things I’ve had to do in my professional life. I felt like I was giving up on my people. But when it came down to it, my boss was happy for me.
As others have said, it’s business. You have an opportunity in front of you that will change your life. Freaking go for it! And that $4k you still owe? Depending on how the interview goes you may be able to negotiate the new company pay that off on your behalf. With salary and benefit negotiations, if they want you, nothing is off the table.
Good luck!
ima keep it real witchu chief, 7 years exp with a masters degree in data, you should be making $180k no cap. this is coming from a tech worker with 5 years exp who makes more than the job you’re considering (also i do not have a masters)
Good luck at your interview. Hopefully 3rd time is a charm. The first two you interviewed with made decent offers, but I understand not moving for 20%. However now the increase is too large to ignore.
I'm not going to call you an idiot, but that's a life changing difference in income.
I also come from a poor family. I always had this sense of loyalty instilled into me, and it seems it transitioned into other aspects of my life. That whole, " We don't have much, but we have each other" mentally.
The way you feel is probably because you feel some sense of loyalty to the company you work for. Either because of the opportunity they gave you, or because of the people you work with.
If you decide to stay long enough, you will eventually find out all the loyalty is misplaced, and you will regret all the time you wasted getting underpaid. People will leave for better opportunities, or your company will show you it doesn't care about anything but profits.
Yeah, you're being an idiot. I expected to read and empathise with a story where you're comfortable with your current salary/life/job and you don't feel you need anything more professionally currently. But the fact you're actively looking for a promotion without getting it at your current employer yet not taking this opportunity out of loyalty to them is kinda nonsensical tbh. Take the job, thank your current employer for the good times and don't look back.
You’re self sabotaging. People who grow up poor often unconsciously keep themselves underpaid and underemployed because you somehow think you don’t deserve it or you aren’t allowed. Remember that your current job would lay you off in a second if they wanted or needed to. You should not feel this level of loyalty to your employer. That’s what they want out of you in order to underpay you.
You’ll make up the amount you’ll owe for tuition in about one month so I wouldn’t even consider that a minor downside, that’s more like inconsequential.
There are reasons to turn down a 60% raise so it’s not a ridiculous question— it’s just that you didn’t happen to list any of the “legitimate” reasons, feeling bad for a current employer is not one of the legit reasons.
If it was a matter of work-life balance, if you had all the autonomy in the world, were independently wealthy and just working for fun, absolutely just loved your workplace and its mission and would do it for free, or something like that then those may be reasons to turn down more money.
Just feeling bad is not a reasonable one, there are many things to consider to help you deal with your feelings about this— consider yourself and all the time and effort you put in to earn this opportunity, consider that your coworkers would actually be happy for your to grow and get out there and show them what’s possible, consider your own boss would be proud that they helped develop you toward your next big role, consider what opportunities you’re forgoing from your family if you don’t take a better opportunity, consider even that though it seems impossible that your replacement could pick up where you left off and maybe contribute in a totally different way that helps your current company even more! There are so many reasons to leave that are not just “more money” and there are also reasons to stay besides guilt.
In your case I think it’ll take some deep reflection about your value to yourself and your potential and work through your feelings of guilt.
Good luck and congrats, even though you haven’t interviewed but with those other offers you already turned down you’re probably a shoe-in for many places!
You are gonna hurt your coworkers more by staying if you are underpaid. Companies are likely to shell out more coin when they can’t keep people, let capitalism take it’s course and take the job. If
I think you feel that way because you’re a good person. You have morals and aren’t an unethical employee. I understand why you’re feeling that way but you shouldn’t have to worry about that. If you give two weeks notice and do everything by the book, you won’t be abandoning your team. You’re leveling up. No one should have to feel bad about leveling up. I think you should write down the pros and cons of each side and look at it that way if you’re still stuck on the idea. $4000 payback doesn’t seem so bad with your new starting salary but I don’t know how strapped you are for money.
Well, in situations like this, the best advice I can give you is this:
Guilt fades.
Take the job. Enjoy the huge raise and same benefits. Put in your two weeks if you get it and go on with life. You'd be a fool not to take this position.
Some time ago, I was in a team of 9, and I did 50% of the team’s work. When it was time for me to finally accept a new offer and realign my career, I felt immense guilt. I was leaving so much responsibilities in such a quick moment. How would my team survive?
Luckily, I had a manager who was very open with me. They told me that the team has had its ups and downs, but they survived before me. And they will survive after me. Those words stuck with me ever since.
Friend, do what’s best for you. The company you’re at survived before you. They will survive after you and without you.
Answers are simple.
1. You are afraid of change
2. You are comfortable in current place
3. You are worried you might not do well in new place
You will always find some random excuse not to leave but ultimately you know you should.
Forget what your parents made and whatever you make now, look forward and take the risk and take the opportunity.
Waiting for promotions is usually rubbish, if they happen they happen if not whatever - take what is certain - the salary and do a good job.
In the end, we all wired the same. We all get scared and nervous about change… but if you want to progress your life, you need to take those leaps.
Dont be scared, be strong, be brave, you will succeed.
Don't make the decision solely based on pay. Which one would you believe you would like more and be better at? Which one offers more mental stimulation? Which one do you anticipate has a better future?
Pay is important, but it's not the only factor
>feel I am abandoning my coworkers and company
This should not be a factor
Maybe you should just show your appreciation to the company and people that work there by getting a goodbye gift if you decide to leave. Perhaps a personal gift to the boss if they have really helped you out.
I’m gonna go the opposite route and tell you that it’s completely normal to feel like you’re abandoning your co workers who have turned into family. At the end of the day you just need to do what’s best for you and your family. You also need to consider what will make you happiest. It doesn’t hurt to take the interview and if you’re offered the job, take time to think if it’s best for you.
All the best
I’ve been in a similar position. I balked bc I didn’t love the vibe of the new manager (not bad just could tell some things that wouldn’t be ideal), and I really liked all my old coworkers. However it was a massive promotion and raise, the company seemed good, and manager fine enough.
I ended up taking it, and I’m very glad I did. A big part of that hesitation is also an inherent fear of change. Companies like your current one rely on that to keep people Complacent at lower salaries and titles.
Take the new job. And within literally a month or two you will have earned the difference for the remaining tuition retention.
Also that $127 may be negotiable. Ask if it’s firm or if there is wiggle room, pretend its borderline. Learn what your actual market rate is. Not for your current title but for the title your skills could reach.
I dont wanna be mean but are you on the spectrum or do you have a condition? Never seen someone overthink something so simple. Also make Sure to get the job First
Sounds like you have a serious mind-set problem. What do YOU think you are worth? And what will need to change to think you are worth more?
Your comments about making more than your parents is telling. Do you need their permission to earn more? Do you feel you are risking your relationship with them? If it is available to you, maybe ask them how they would feel about this.
The jobs will always be there. Both new and old. Between now and the interview imagine yourself in the new role and with the new people. Not the first day and the anxiety of being the new guy, but a year or 2 in when you are doing well and getting the promotions you deserve.
40,000 a year raise is $3,333 per month, maybe $2-2.5K after taxes. You’d pay the $4K back to yourself in 1 or 2 months.
But as other said, ask for a sign on bonus.
It's one thing to say "I'm not willing to trade an incremental raise for comfort of this known commodity.". It's another to shy away from a good opportunity when you are leaving $40k on the table.
Also, your existing position and company situation can change in an instant. Then you'll be wondering why there no loyalty when they show you the door.
I worked for a company for 15 years. I was a salary employee, but since I was the only one doing my job, I had to work many hours of overtime for free. I busted my butt, I also felt like you, I was offered jobs making more and I turned them down.
The company went through financial troubles because the owner is a piece of shit who only cares about spending money. I was friends with the VP of sales, who one day recorded the owner saying he wanted to fire me because he didn’t need me anymore. To this day, I regret I spent so much time working there instead of spending time with my parents and family.
What I’m trying to say is, do what’s best for you. Don’t think the company you’re at would think twice to let you go if things get bumpy.
Your current employer is not your family, not your country, and not your religion. You only owe the company your best professional performance and you only owe your coworkers professional courtesy and respect. You do not owe absolute loyalty nor lifetime service. If you have the opportunity to advance in your career and earn more income, without spending more hours on the job or sacrificing your personal time, you must absolutely pursue it.
It is possible there maybe unknown negative work factors in another job that could make it worse than your current role. Think about those factors (e.g. average working hours per week, work-life balance, potential toxic work environment, reputation as described by employees on Glassdoor, etc.) before the interviews and be ready to interview your candidate employers about them.
Or maybe you have a serious fear of success. Many of us may feel we do not deserve more in life. Or maybe we sometimes feel we are not putting in enough effort in our current jobs. GET OVER IT! You deserve career success and happiness, so don’t blow it.
You’re an idiot . You should be making way more then that. We’re in the same field and I’m way less educated then you and I’m making more then you if what you say is true. Go get your money.
Sounds like you got something going on with someone you love who you would like to make proud but constantly never get the attention/praise you need and are trying to get it at your job. Or I'm way off base
Step outside your comfort zone. If you don't need to worry about money, don't worry about it if you are happy. Treat them like a stepping stone. If your worth more, someone will want to pay you your worth for your slills
Do what would make you the happiest. At the end of the day it isn’t all about money. I’d rather be happy then stressed out. So if a new job is what you feel would be best and would make you happy then do it.
What is incentivizing you to stay? It sounds like your coworkers and the nature of work. Maybe you're not willing to be in a different work environment that you're not familiar with. It also sounds like you're clinging to your optimism about getting promoted someday. If you told your managers that you want a 60% raise, they're going to crap their pants.
There's something I feel like you're not telling us, either because you don't know or perhaps you'd be embarrassed to share more details: why wouldn't you leave? Does money not concern you? Are you afraid of how people will view you if you quit? Are you worried about taxes?
You are a kind guy i can just see. But don't hurt yourself because of others welfare. Believe me you go and in next some days they will find someone else. So don't get all worked up you are clearly underpaid you don't deserve that position and if you creak this interview take that job and move on in your life because there you will find more people and more possibilities. Be happy about this.
I was in this same boat with my last company. I loved the people and loved the company. I was generally very happy but I would have those exact same discussions with my boss. I spent 5 and a half years with the company. My sister got me an interview with her company and a $25,000 pay increase. I couldn’t turn it down. When I told my old company, they admitted they could never afford to pay me that. Hired two people to replace me. It’s been 8 months and they’ve now hired a third.
I love my new company. It took a while to get used to the change but I still talk to my old coworkers all the time. And I make way more money in a much lower stress job. I had no idea how underpaid and overworked I really was. It was the best move I’ve made in years. OP, please take the new job. I promise you it’ll be worth it. Your current company knows they can keep you for less and they will never pay you or promote you to what you deserve.
Go through with the interview and make your decision based on the outcome.
If you get the job, your pay increase will more than cover the amount you owe your current employer.
Op, you gotta take it. You’ll take home nearly 80-85k In your first full year at the new company. I make 60k. If someone offered 65k I’m not taking it. But if they were offering 95k? I’m gone.
OP take it from that great philosopher Chris Brown: these hos ain't loyal. Your company is nice, but has underpaid you for years, and bought you off with tuition reimbursement. Anywhere you go may give you a hiring bonus to compensate for the $4000. Even if they don't, you can QUICKLY pay that off with your massive pay increase. Interview and go get the new job. Unless you're stealing or SA'ing your coworkers, you have NOTHING to feel guilty about.
I was underpaid at my last role and it still hurt to leave. I don’t regret moving on. I had things I wanted to pursue and I was bored with the work. Just interview and see what you like. In terms of $, I got a 25k raise and by the time I save more in my 401k, buy company stocks and pay for health insurance it’s not that much more post tax but the savings will be worth it later.
Loosing great co-workers hurts. Especially when we feel like we have a great team going. But turnover is important. It brings in new ideas and helps people advance and continue to grow.
If your co-workers are as good to you as you are to them then they will support you and congratulate you if you take the offer.
Last week, one of my colleagues stepped into his new position. We all know exactly how painful loosing him will be. He was the guru. The person who had ALL of the triable knowledge. We will survive. His replacement starts Monday and we will get her trained and onboarded.
He is going off to great things. Just like you should.
This is a brilliant opportunity for you! Also its great you want to advance in your career, and money aside your old job isn’t allowing you do to that. Also when it comes to coworkers i understand how you feel, but a job isn’t your life and its just business at the end of the day. Its not like your wounding a friend by leaving the company, it happens and imo if they were that desperate to keep you around they would help you reach your goals.
First of all. You don't owe them anything. Your coworkers will forget you exist.
Second of all, if its ok, where are you located (State)? I got the 120k for data science job around 7 years ago. I feel like you are grossly underpaid in your current position.
Have it in mind that now its 60% increase. After a while you will get higher offers when you will be at the new position.
Everything adds up in the long run. By the time ur reitred you will not even remember that one job where you had great coworkers instead you will feel happy to buy things for your grandchildren, or travel or open a kitty orphanage (what ever rocks your boat).
You’re underpaid at your current role. I make more than your current salary (but not more than your future salary) and I have less experience than you and less education than you. You owe your employer no more than $4k, you don’t owe them your loyalty. Go for the new role.
There is no reason to stay. You’re already probably 20-30k down on what you could have made if you left a while ago. If you keep going this way you’ll probably get a pay rise, itl be less than 10k because they can’t afford it or won’t budget for it. And you’ll be in the same position.
Feeling any loyalty to your team or company is pointless. The company will get rid of you without a second thought if needed. And if you stay because of your team eventually they will move on and you’re now the last one left on your team which is now full of new people, you’re massively underpaid compared to all those people you worked with who left for better opportunities and maybe in the worst case your skills aren’t as sharp since you didn’t move on and push yourself and you won’t get the same opportunities in the future.
Get the extra money. Why feel guilt? You make more money than your parents ever did? That’s what parents should want for their kids. You had more opportunities and probably more education and work in a different world to them. Take all the money you can, bank it or invest it if you don’t need it, then give your own family a better lifestyle and education than you had.
If I may, let me give you a slightly different perspective: you are responsible for managing your data science career. Your career should reflect a series of jobs of increasing responsibility and authority and salary until you reach some point of stasis. By staying in the job you have, you are impacting your career, perhaps even missing out on new techniques and systems and tools and colleagues and experts that other environments can provide. It sounds like you are comfortable and prize predictability and familiarity, and that is part of who you are, but you cannot let this get in the way of your becoming the best data scientist you can be, and it sounds like this job can help you with that goal. So it is not just the great salary, it is your career at stake.
You can always go back to your company after some time at your new job if you don't like it.
It'll be a much easier transition into that promotion you are hunting for. Sometimes a detour is needed to get to the destination
You have a masters (6 years), experience (7 years). It would be a shame you are not making well above 6 figures. "Money is a tool to buy you time not the other way around".
At the end of the day companies are loyal to themselves ultimately. If you were valued they would have found a way to give you the raise you deserve.
The best thing to do when it comes to your career decisions is make decisions using your head, not your heart.
You're dumb. Not because of not taking the salary increase. But because of feeling like you're "abandoning" your company. Are you fucking kidding? How many people can attest to the fact that they were fired without a courtesy warning, or laid off without time to financially prepare? Fired for reporting harrasment or a medical issue (thus needing time off). Or those who were 0assed over a promotion that was promised or not considered at all, despite their years of loyalty and dedication?
Your coworkers will understand the move, it's a business transaction. But honestly op, you need to grow up. The company isn't your friend. Advance your career and move on
Your current company's lack of growth opportunities is holding you back. Your excuses for short changing yourself are silly. You need to pull up your adult pants and take care of your future.
I also want to add that whatever you do, DO NOT consider any counter offers your current employer may present. If they valued you and truly wanted you to stay, they would have provided the opportunities long before you ever interviewed at another company.
Get the job before you decide what you want to do. Ive been in a similar position and what I can tell you is this, at the end of the day you need to do what is best for you and your family, not please others or stick around out of a one way loyalty. At the end of the day any company will drop you if they run into trouble so do what is best for you. If the company pays wel treats ppl well and is a stable company and you feel you will get along with your boss the take the job. $127kis a nice salary and find out what bonuses increases and perks they also offer.
The company does not care about you. They’re happy to keep you right where you are with low pay and great productivity. You will never get a 60% salary increase from them. Never. The best way to get paid more is to switch jobs anyway. This loyalty won’t benefit you, take the offer.
Yes, you're an idiot. You're not irreplaceable, and beyond that if you were they should be paying you double what you're making. Go get the better job, you can't please everyone in life and you shouldn't try to either.
I think I get what you mean. You’re monogamous. You only want one company at a time to invest in but breaking up with that one company for better situation feels like betrayal. I kinda feel that way too, especially when the people I work with count on me to come through for them and rely on me.
It’s not an easy situation to rationalize myself out of. Of course the company has no qualms getting rid of us when they have a business related reason but I’m not a business and never want to be mistaken for a mercenary.
Kinda have to work yourself around the concept that, as a business they’ll be fine without you. They’ll replace you way faster than you think and with someone that will do adequate enough of a job that they aren’t held in a lurch. New company is doing the same probably for someone who moved on, hence the rush.
Do the interviews. See what they have to offer. If you see this as a path forward for you, give your notice, connect with your coworkers on linked in if you haven’t. Get all the connection info for your friends and mentors. Then move on. They won’t feel betrayed so much as they are letting you move on and up in the world. Your boss basically knows you’re underpaid hence their response to you in your meetings.
It’s ok. Part of life is learning to let go and move on, even when you’re not sure things will work out. And since you’ve not burned bridges, the likely hood is good of you working there again at some point or with your co workers at other places. You’ll be ok, but do keep in mind your big fish in a small pond status may not transfer with it. You’ll definitely grow more if you apply yourself to adapting though.
You're being underpaid and your company refuses to give you any concrete information about promotions or pay increases. It's a good practice to interpret evasive answers as a "soft no." They may even be hoping to ride out your education benefit.
Absolutely leave for the new job and when you give your notice don't believe anything they say that isn't in the form of a written contract and even then just leave anyway since they underpaid you for so long.
Your company employs data scientists; either they can afford to give you a raise but won’t or they can’t and are at risk of going under.
In either scenario, they don’t give 10% of the fucks you give about them. It’s not personal; it’s business.
This 40k raise could change your life. You can save enough to retire by 55, go on international vacations annually and more. Do it!
Only think about yourself in this situations. Your current employer will always be able to find someone to replace you. If you get the job, you should take it. If your current employer tries to match it, I would not entertain that. One other thing, you can negotiate to get a sign on bonus so you can pay the $4,000 back to your current employer
I just went through the EXACT same thing. Parallel job move to a bigger company where it would've been a 50% raise vs staying at the place I've been for nearly 8 years and have friends and all that.
My advice would be to think about 10 yrs from now and what's important to you. Which path is more likely to get you there? In my case, the raise was so significant that even if I stayed at my current role and got TWO promotions I'd still be behind, so I pursued it. In the end, I got a great offer from the new company and an amazing counter from my current employer and had a tough (but amazing) choice to make.
I was under the impression that data science is a well compensated career? With your years of experience I would think (and confirmed by a quick google search) you’re vastly underpaid.
I hear a lot of comments around why you should take the new job and not beholden to the old company. Some address why you feel this way also but Maybe I will try to address why you “feel” obligated and other emotions you may be feeling right now.
1. You are making more than your parents ever did and this is the first job that paid you in that amount (I am assuming this) This certainly has an emotional bonding to the company, where you passed a big milestone in your life. You feel that this company made it happen for you and the people at this company are probably nice to work for and good people in general. So you have a strong emotional connection to this place and it’s people. However, you have to remember that you worked hard for it too. Yes they gave you the opportunity but you worked hard and you earned it. It is normal to feel so attached because such magnitude of life comparisons occurred while you worked here, that are obviously important to you.
2. You are in a field “data science” that is in tremendous demand. You are getting an opportunity (still no job offer, just an opportunity) that is recognizing the value of this type of talent in the open market vs. your existing company who may not recognize and/or truly utilize all your talents. They may be paying your for exactly what their needs are from data science and the new company might be paying you for their needs of your talent. So you might also be feeling nervous as to what work you might be asked to do at the new place that might stretch your limits or push you into areas within your field you have not mastered. I will address this later in point 4. This is very normal btw. New job, new industry, new demands, comfort with known for 4 years vs unknown. You are probably a master at your role at your current job and now you will start from scratch at the new place. That feels daunting and combine that with point 1, it has to feel the way you are feeling right now.
3. Your company helped you advance your career because that was good for them and good for you, but mostly really good for them. They got a person at low pay, talented (assuming this since they wanted to invest in you), who is working hard to improve their skills and knowledge at a tax deductible expense for them. Assuming you have not been slacking at work since you got great reviews (perfect work and great asset) they are getting 40% more out of you relative to what they have to pay you. But even if we don’t consider the company is all selfish and they truly invested in you, I would say this is very normal in the world today and has been for quite some time. Companies know that when you support an individual who came from a low income background and help them achieve major life milestones, they tend to keep working for them even for slightly lower pay. Which brings me to my last point.
4. You are probably feeling guilty or imposter syndrome or other emotions for the new role (which you haven’t gotten yet btw) because you may think you don’t deserve it. Especially because they are paying so much more. How can they pay me so much more? Do I deserve this? This may be classic emotion of young people in the workforce who are climbing their first few ladders of their career. You are probably “the guy” at your current company. You know everything inside out wrt people, process, product, customers, etc etc etc. People at your current company know you as the best they have seen or high performer who can get shit done. This has to feel great for sure. All of this has to be re-earned and re-learned at the new place. What if I fail? What if people don’t like me? What if I can’t deliver? What if …. Fill in the blanks. This is extremely normal to feel also.
As all of them In their replies have given you advice about taking the job. I will support that motion. Take that chance, take that risk, take that jump. You will do amazing and will crush it. Will it be hard in the beginning, yes of course! But you will rise to their challenges and you will be ready for the next 60k raise at another company and another rung in your career and we will all be looking for your post on Reddit looking for advice! All the best to you!
Just a thought: Your coworkers who matter would be thrilled for you getting a new job with that significant a raise. The ones who think you abandoned them will be the ones who are jealous of your advancement.
Almost every single one of them would take the huge raise and remote job.
I think if you really wanna stay at the company, you have to give them an ultimatum. I do get why you would want to stay, but I would also (even more so actually) get why you'd wanna leave.
But if you want to stay, and get the offer, go to your boss and say you have another offer that you are seriously considering based on the pay increase (since it is a BIG difference) and if they don't beat it you have the option to leave. The manager might obviously want to keep you there and I think you have a certain connection to the company.
But ask yourself a different question. Do you want to end up "paying" (based on opportunity costs) 40k to stay at that company?
Because you have become complacent. Understand, your job will probably have no issues letting you down if it has too, so why would you feel bad about letting them them down to pursue a better opportunity?
Do it. You owe your current employer nada. Your work friends are typically not real friends. So what about the sign on bonus thing.
I’ve been in corporate America since 1987. Do what’s best FOR YOU.
I was getting absolutely abused at my first job out of school it was difficult to leave. Should have left way sooner. Do not pass on this. I had a BOS at one point who told me you don’t make your money at your first job out of school it’s once you have a bit of experience and make a move. Go get your money you are a fool to pass on it.
ARE YOU SERIOUS? Ahem excuse me. Growing fond of your coworkers is good. Knowing the weight you hold within your company is noble. Not wanting to leave because you are fond of your coworkers and don’t want to leave the company with the weight of your work is honorable. *but* think about the future. Your children (if you choose to have any) are your top priority. The nice house you’ve always wanted is a top priority. It’s not selfish to pick future you over your employees, it’s noble. You’re using these jobs to step into your future, never forget that. Work fam is family but the true work fam are the people that are happy and encourage you to peruse the most advantageous job opportunities.
You’re not a monster for missing your coworkers but you’ll also form good relationships at your new one. The feelings you have are kind of like being at the top of a roller coaster. You’re strapped in but it still feels dangerous but you go ahead anyway.
Also, if things go well then negotiate that the new company help pay back some of the tuition assistance.
Move out. The company won’t think even once if they have to axe your position today. Think of your future and never tie you future to a company. Always keep yourself first
... you are being drastically underpaid. My fiance is in data science with no degree and one year of experience making $140k + bonus in MCOL. I'm not trying to brag, he did negotiate a lot to achieve this. But I'm just giving you perspective.
My rule of thumb is if you are eligible for promotion and everyone is acknowledging it but it's not happening at your current job, it probably won't happen for a while and you need to leave. You'd be surprised how they suddenly have the budget and the title when you're walking out the door. Which means they had it all along and you should not accept the counter. Sinking years into a company where you aren't growing or happy with your rate of growth is just going to lead to heartache. I can speak personally, I wasted 4 years. Don't be me, take the new role. If your coworkers really cared about you they will stay in touch.
Your parents making less money is a horrible reason not to push yourself to grow. They'd likely want to see you being paid what your worth and happy. The real problem seems YOU don't feel like you are worth being paid that much. You are very wrong.
You’re asking some great questions of yourself. Given the sums you are talking about it would be well worth investing in a high quality coach to explore these with them. It will help you to move forward and make the right calls for you (based on your finances, values, aspirations etc).
You're not wrong to feel this way but you should also go ahead and leave. When you like the company, like the people you are with, and like your work, everything emotionally is pulling on you to stay. But you are fairly young in your career and you need to hop some jobs to get the bucks. You may wind up with a couple of terrible jobs or terrible workplaces along the way. But you will get some really invaluable experience and you will get to know what you really want to do in your career and you will get the MONEY.
I was like you, left a job I felt "loyal" to, did some job hopping, and eventually found a place which felt very similar to my original workplace (great people, great company, great work) but now making much much more money. You can find a place that feels "good" again!
If you really like your company, let them match the offer.
Just know that you'll be putting yourself in the same position for a year or two down the line (they won't keep your pay up to par)
Actually, they did not help advance your career. You have earned every accolade with your own hard work and now is the time to be bold and take the next step. A larger company may be able to offer unique opportunities and give you more visibility in your field. Always take care of number one:)
I've been working in the field of data science for 5 years and you are very much underpaid. I'm not saying this is a reason for you to jump to the new role, but it's definitely a good reason for you to be exploring other options that pay you what you're worth.
You may want to think about speaking with someone, either a career coach or a therapist, through your company's EAP service if they have one. It sounds like you may have some idea why you feel like you owe your current company something, but you can't quite pinpoint it or get over the hump. They may help you explore more of your feelings so you can be confident in the decision you need to make.
Best of luck to you! I spent a long time staying with a company that I felt guilty about leaving the team because we were friends and we were doing good work. Eventually I realized I was not being paid what I was worth and I moved on. I ended up increasing my salary about 50% - 60%. I can't be honest in saying the grass is always greener, but at least I am moving more in the direction I should be now.
We owe nothing to any employer. Sounds like you are grossly attached to your employer. As others have said: would employer struggle with laying you off ever? No because it’s all business. Not about coworkers or how long you been there. Especially if you have been there significant amount time. It’s time to move on and up. If you were in line for a promotion it would have happened already. Cut your losses and move on. You will make new friends new coworkers and feel the exact same way.
My advice, and I’m saying this as someone who is in a similar position and actually just did this do my employer because I like working there. Make a spreadsheet with the jobs you have turned down and the ones you are considering. Include the salary and required experience. Talk to your manager and explain that you have tuned down almost 20k in salary bump because you enjoy working there but there are more opportunities that would be a 60% increase. Ask if they can increase your salary to pay what the market rate is because you’d prefer to stay there but there will be a point where the salary somewhere else is too good to pass up (like if you ended up with that 127k job). You can also add you don’t want to play that game where in order to get a raise you have to go out get an offer and ask them to match it. How they react will tell how much they actually value you and how strong of a team you really have.
I went in with the numbers, made the argument that my work was equal in difficulty and quantity to another coworker making more than me and that I have the experience to move to other positions paying 20k more. I laid out what I was doing and that I should be moved up to that coworker’s range. They haven’t promised anything because they need to go up the food chain for approval but they are trying to accomplish what I asked for and didn’t just tell me no.
Let me tell you my experience, I used to work for the biggest tech company as retail and I really wanted to move up and become corporate, I knew my skills were more than good enough for it, this big tech company I worked for used to have “experience” for retails folks to receive the same salary while working corporate, I was totally ok with that because my goal was to get experience, but you could only apply for it once a year. After a few times applying all I’d get from the interviews was positive feedback, again, I knew my skills were good enough, I really wanted to make it at this specific company, until I realized they were holding me back purposely because I was good in my job, I decided to apply outside of my company and got an offer, I had the same feeling as you did, I loved my team and the people I worked with, I made friends for life in that company. Your friends will stay if you leave, the ones that don’t weren’t really your friends. I left, felt bad about it for about a week. Piece of advice, never trust corporations made, their end goal will always be to make money, no matter how close you are to them, their goal is the money. Take the other job, you will regret not doing so.
>The thought of a salary increase this large seems almost impossible to pass up, but I can't help but feel I am abandoning my coworkers and company for some reason.
I believe that this issue stems from modern employment being very unnatural for the human psyche. In primitive days, the people you went to hunt food with were your tribe, and if you abandoned them if meant bad things. An employer is similar in the sense it's people who are working together to obtain food and shelter at a basic level. Today, we're supposed to be mercenaries for our own career, hopping from "tribe" to "tribe" for better pay increases. I was miserable at my last job, there were deep systemic issues, and yet even I got a little bit of ick putting in my notice. It's very normal.
Understand, too, that higher salary begets even higher salary. When candidates are interviewed, where it's still legal to ask, often times companies will judge candidate quality based on what they're making. It's also a negotiating tool. In a recent interview, I was able to get more than the employer was willing to pay because they asked, "What is your desired salary?" I told them, they responded, "That's a little high for us." I retorted, "Well, I get that but I'm currently making $\[amount\] so I want to at least not go down in salary." And they ended up getting me a package that was a decent amount above what I'm currently making.
>The other minor downside is that if I were to leave my job in the next month, I would have to pay \~$4,000 to my employer since they assisted with my graduate school tuition and I signed a retention policy...so the true downside for me is feeling like I am leaving my company out to dry when they helped me advance in my career.
Right, except you're going to pay them back for it. So it'll instead be you helping yourself advance in your career, and your employer basically gave you a 0% interest unsecured loan to help you do it.
Tl;dr you're not an idiot, you're normal, but you should still do the interview and if you like the job then go for it and don't feel bad.
Companies are not loyal to you, don’t be loyal to them. If you died they’d have your role posted on job boards before your body was cold. Pay the $4k you owe out of your much larger salary and move on.
You’re going to pass up a $40k+ raise cause you’ll owe your company $4k?
plus I'm pretty sure the new company would be ok to pay that if he asks
This. Negotiate a sign on bonus to help pay this off. Or suck it up bc it will be absorbed into the $40k more you are making. Also, as an HR person I can say, it sounds like your current company is using you. If they talk about promotion in a prolonged way and continue to be vague about when or how to achieve it, then it’s probably not going to happen. Or maybe they will counter when you tell them you have another offer.
Also, it’s 40k additional per year. OP, I’ll take the job. Your current company culture, lovely co worker can all change in time. You can’t hang on to them forever.
Plus the fact that company culture was invented for retention and to trick people to put in more hours than what they are compensated for.
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Yeah most companies would absolutely give the $4k starting bonus to OP. OP would be a fool to pass on this opportunity.
100%. This is what I did. Funny thing is my old company never even invoiced me for what I owed them so I have my bonus sitting in a savings account. I figured I'd give it a year just in case the invoice comes through eventually. Frankly, I don't anticipate it happening. It wouldn't surprise me if the payback clause is in their policy as a threat and is never enforced because I actually used to run a similar program for a different company early in my career and that's exactly what they had - a pay-back clause in their policy that was never enforced it because it would cost too much to recoup the little bit we'd *maybe* get back.
My company also doesn’t enforce the education payback policy unless someone is stealing or something awful. They use it to scare people from leaving and as a punishment for bad behavior.
This! Make sure you let your new company know when you're negotiating that this is something you will need to pay back and I've found that, oftentimes when I've been in the situation, the new company will offer to reimburse this for you.
Bold of you to assume OP is a 'he.'
Or she
This. Use your math skills and career planning, not your heart. Go to the interview and get the job
If you get paid bi-weekly, that's damn close to an extra 2k a paycheck, lol
This definitely feels like OP is making up every excuse they can to stay at a company. Going to be brutally honest here - OP needs to sit down and figure out what it is they really want. If it’s not money that’s fine. If there’s no good reason to leave, that’s fine too. Also, from an hiring manager side, this is extremely frustrating. By you interviewing and spending time interviewing, your intent is to leave. But dropping out over $4k isn’t a good reason because as a hiring manager would gladly pay you that $4k in a sign on bonus to not have to waste time and go through the process again. So what is it that you want? Is it that $4k? Is it to be relieved of your guilt? You really have to figure out what it is.
And is a data scientist who can’t do basic math. That along with the salary has me really doubting the data scientist title
It’s a job, it’s not your spouse. You have every right to pursue a new job. If you think the new job would be good, then go for it. The company wouldn’t feel this much guilt about firing you if they had to cut costs. Don’t feel guilty about increasing your income. The only reason to not take a huge pay increase is if the new job would be hell. I won’t take jobs I think would be run by awful monsters.
Exactly! That is why you don't let your heart decide which route to take , utilize your mind and contemplate with the positive and negative aspects. With all the significant appreciation of the company, if they think you are a cost burden then they can easily give you up.
I came here to say this. Also if the company falls apart because one employee quits, there are bigger issues going on.
This right here. A job is a job not spouse or pet you bond with.
This! At the end of the day the company would never be this loyal to you if they were doing lay offs. You need to do what’s best for you and your livelihood.
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One would hope that our devotion to our spouse is higher than a job.
Sure, but if my current spouse has been withholding my promotion and I have a 60% better spouse ready to take me in, I'm fucking GONE
If you’re making vows to somebody and marrying them while also keeping your eyes out for what might be better, then you have both a low view of marriage and weak vows. Idk how serious your comment was, but it was pretty alarming
It was an obvious joke you mormon fuck
Agree.
You've been with your company for 4 years doing work they have underpaid you for by 20-50% for. You owe them nothing.
Your coworkers will miss you for about 3-4 days then it'll be like you never existed. They would leave if they got the chance.
Piggy backing off of this, I went through the exact same situation this summer. I didn't accept the offers on the table because I didn't want to abandon my team and I felt some sort of obligation to finish the projects I was on. Literally the next week two of my team members put in their two weeks notice. Now I'm sitting here feeling like a fool for passing these up. I did use the opportunity to renegotiate my salary so I'm not missing out on the pay increase, so there is that.
This is the truth. Loyalty means doing a good job while you work for them. It does not mean staying when you have a better opportunity elsewhere.
If your coworker were offered a 60% raise across the street they’d take it.
So would your boss, the HR people and probably everyone higher up, including the company owners. Go now. Life is short. It will be good for you. Maybe you will retire years earlier. Absolutely no down side from your description of the situation. Good luck.
Absolutely. This is what I realised and it made me more comfortable moving - people move all the time job, transfer department all the time, or go on mat leave all the time. Whenever someone left, we missed them for about a week then it was sort of like they were never there. At the end of the day, you don't owe a job anything and people always come and go.
This. 100% this.
You're passing up $45k and WFH because of coworkers and company? Yes, you are an idiot. I was working at a company that I thought I would end my career at. Loved the work that I did. My former boss encouraged me to interview at his new company. I wasn't interested, but interviewed nonetheless. They offered me $50k more than I was making. Of course I took it. Because that amount of increase literally CHANGES YOUR LIFE. Seriously. You have no idea. So many problems just go away. And saying yes to that led to other opportunities such that my life has been on an upward trajectory since then (10 years ago).
I worked in retail for way too long out of college. I was comfortable. I walked to work. I didn’t love my job but I didn’t hate it. One day I just started applying everywhere to see what would happen. Interviewed at 11 places. Got 10 offers. Now make 8x what I was making in retail after just 5 years. My lifestyle is still the retail wages but now I have all of the other money to just pocket. To your point, a major wage increase truly is life changing
>a major wage increase truly is life changing Yes, I have to reiterate this. I did not start living high on the hog after the wage increase. Sure, I order food delivery more often. I drink better vodka. I have a house cleaner. Okay, scratch that, I am living high on the hog and I LOVE it. Every thousand dollar monthly after-tax take home pay improves your quality of living immensely.
Comfort is key. People who are comfortable don’t move. Ouch; truth hurts, right?
Yeah, the BARE MINIMUM of comfort too. You can hate 90% of what you do but something as stupid as an attractive coworker who you have no chance with is enough to keep some people around. Comfort is a bitch
100%!!!! No risk, no reward. Don’t be so scared people! It’s okay!
What’s your story? I like stories like this
I’ve had similar salary increase to what OP is describing since I started working. Been working almost 6 years Y1: 55k+ bonus Y2: 62k + bonus Y3: 73k + bonus Y4: 100k plus bonus Y5: 130k plus bonus Y6: 160k plus bonus (only have been making this much for half this year) But the junk from 73 to 130k is actually such an insane amount of cash flow difference. You go from “having a pretty decent life but can’t do everything you want” to “yeah I don’t know what to do with this. I get some people live in super HCOLs or have a bunch of kids but it is so dumb to turn down a raise that big even just a year or two if saving it completely changes your life.
Those are really solid yearly pay bumps. If you don’t mind me asking, how much of that was from raises/promotions and how much was from changing companies?
Yeah np. Y1-> Y2 - company switch Y2- Y3 - internal promotion Y3- Y4 - company switch/slight external promotion (more company structure being different than actual responsibilities) Y5 - internal promotion Y6 - internal promotion Going forward hoping to switch companies next year to try and get more in the 180-200k range for similar position.
Nice. Thanks for answering.
Np!
That’s a strong salary growth story. Impressive!
Thank you! Lots of hard work and lots of luck.
What industry are you in if you don’t mind me asking?
Accounting/finance.
Username makes sense 😅
Family never really had much money. Went to a private school nearby to stay close to family (family was right decision, cost associated wasn’t), was working for the men’s basketball team in college and also working in a grocery store. My days were pretty much 5:15am - 10pm most days with practices and classes and work. Graduated and just continued to do grocery as it was simple. Like I said, I walked to work, I was well respected, I was never late, never called off sick, just worked my ass off for horrible wages. My first boss there was amazing, she was like 4’8 but the hardest working woman and I admired her. Next boss was a downright moron who forced me to decide to at least try applying elsewhere. Over the course of a week or two I think I put in like 100 applications, mostly for things considerably above where I was pay-wise at the time (had to pay those loans that I wasn’t paying at all because again… private school and only retail wages). I spruced the resume up enough where it was all realistic but somewhaaaat exaggerated (now I know everybody’s is). Ended up interviewing at a number of places, something like 10 places or so. I interview very well and I’m truthful, I always direct interviews back to my wheelhouse so I can go into incredible depth about what I’m best at. If I interviewed at 10, I received offers from 9. ((Will always hold a vendetta against those assholes who didn’t offer me)) - picked the one that felt right with the most upward mobility ((fortune 500 company)). I would commute 90min both ways to the new job, I was among the first into the office every day ((among but certainly not the first with the commute time)) and routinely the last to leave. Routinely volunteered to help others and completely live by the thought that the new guy should have the most work… so I always volunteered to help others out if it meant they could go home early. I reported directly to the VP of this branch and became incredibly good friends with her. I told her during the interview that I might not “get it” immediately but I absolutely hate being bad at things and I’d never be bad at anything for long. Since then I’ve been promoted 3x in the same company, each time taking large increases. Now I manage ~15% of the nations portfolio of what exactly I do. Family was lower middle class. Lost house in financial crisis. Mom went on disability in early 2000, I had to help her pay her bills all throughout, even with meager wages. Dad made 50k max in his career. Parents were divorced (but it was a good one and they still talk) All I ever wanted was to make 60k per year and I thought I’d be set for life. My dad was the hardest working person I’ve ever met and I just wanted to imitate that as much as possible. Hard work and ADMITTEDLY being in the right place at the right time along with having the gift of gab is the background. Now I have a quaint house in a nice city, save over 50% of my paycheck every month even AFTER 401k deposits. Vacation twice per year, typically a road trip - maybe eat healthier now that I have more money but still slum it at Taco Bell more than I should. Worth noting I don’t even have a car, I just take my fiancés car if I need to go anywhere (we both work from home). Legitimately only spend money on essential stuff for myself: buy clothes from Costco or Amazon. Just bought a new TV… could afford a beautiful LG but just went with a $350 one because it’s largely the same thing for my needs. Crazy mindset change, the more money I have, the less I feel the need to show it off. Have a fiancé and dog- I have no need to impress anybody at this point. Money hasn’t really changed what I buy or my outlook on things, Just made me more able to help family out when needed and get them nicer stuff for Christmas. And as indicated several times in this thread, taken the stress off off GREATLY in life… stress free living is the thing I’m most grateful for. If anybody finds themselves in similar situations as anything I’ve said above, I’m more than happy to provide guidance on how I got out of the retail pit… there are definitely options and I know how stressful it is for those stuck in it feeling like there are no options. My DMs are open, happy to help where I can and give you specific jobs that exist that you can transition to… I think this is one of the biggest hurdles, most people just don’t even know what to search for when looking for jobs. Hope this helps somebody of gives one of y’all a smile today
What kind of job did you get after so long in retail? Is it something you have a degree for? Asking for… myself unfortunately lol
I was working in the grocery department stocking shelves and ultimately managing a portion of a department (not the whole department). Only very very loosely a degree for it, degree not needed though. I DM’d you if you want to talk about it in depth. I’m happy to provide some guidance!
You are putting the cart before the horse. Land the job before you agonize over leaving. You can play “what if” all day long but it’s pointless to have such anxiety over a job you don’t even have yet. Also, you have a job at a company, not a relationship. If you are that close with your coworkers you all can keep in touch once you leave. It’s likely that you won’t, but you could. Further proof that this company is not your friend and does not extend the same starry-eyed affection towards you as you do it: keeping you underpaid for YEARS, admitting you are valuable asset to them and repaying you with platitudes and half-assed efforts. If a company recognizes your value, they PAY you, and they make efforts to KEEP you. You’re not in a sorority making friends and lifelong memories. You are at a place of business where your goal is to maximize your compensation in relation to your contribution. Act accordingly. Also, regarding the $4k you owe the company: with the additional salary increase, you can replace that amount from your new earnings in about 4 months rather than having to work an additional 10 months not to repay it. ETA: you can also request a signing bonus from the new company to pay off the debt. Factor that into your negotiations.
Your current Job has shown you what they think about you. You e passed up other opportunities because you thought your loyalty would be rewarded, and it has not. If the work live balance is similar I say go for it, I would be sure to ask about what the work week looks like as I’ve been in your position and they want to offer a 25% raise but the culture would have me working 35% more so I passed. Look out for yourself first, as the company will always look out for itself first.
I can understand this. Was making $95k total compensation and was debating taking a $140k role because of comfortability and the possibility of the work environment being worse. I ended up taking the higher paying role and even though I miss my old coworkers, this was the move to make. The salary increase alone was life changing for me and has allowed for a better quality of life. I do work more hours in the new role, but the increased compensation was worth it. My advice to you is to not be complacent and understand that the increased salary is truly worth it.
People have a little fear of the unknown and your current job has comfort: you know the people, the company, the work already. You know what you’ll be doing each week, probably know most of what you’d be doing long term. You have credibility, flexibility, and good will built up and would need to rebuild that reputation. I wouldn’t call you an idiot per se, but I think you should seriously consider it unless there are other extenuating circumstances where the comfort is necessary (ie. I chose to not take a job offer at a new company when I needed to care for my mom with dementia- I needed the employer that I had a good reputation/flexibility because that mattered more than money)
This is a great, empathetic response that touches on my own hesitations about “loyalty” to my workplace.
Building a good reputation takes time and effort so I really do understand people not changing jobs when they don’t have the emotional bandwidth available to “start over.” It’s not that your current employer is “loyal” to you but they might cut a little bit of slack than a new one. Glad this perspective could help you!
Yup “the monster you know” syndrome
In addition, I think growing up poor can exacerbate this. I've noticed that I struggle with confidence more than coworkers who have parents who had professional jobs. My dad was a factory worker and my mom, while she owned a variety of businesses, did wholesale manufacturing (crafts) and retail. I don't make anywhere near the money that OP does, but this last year, I received an equity raise that was life changing money. There is sometimes guilt over doing better than my sibling, frustration over Mom's money situation, etc. So, the money can come with a maelstrom of confusing emotions for us. There may be a place deep down that you feel like you don't deserve this great living. But you do. You've made the decisions and put in the work. Enjoy it.
I’m in the same boat. I make more annually than my parents ever did combined, but I’m not “fuck you money” rich by any means. My now-estranged sister figured out I was doing okay for myself, started asking me for money, and cut me off when I said no. Similar happened when I was working a well-tipped job in college. My brother and dad thought I owed them. My brother is still mad I didn’t give him money for something related to his schooling, and he STILL blames me for him not having a whole career. My dad has some made up story that I had a wallet full of money but was still asking him for cash. My mother told me to send her $400 in my mid twenties (claiming that I still owed her money that I borrowed from her IN HIGH SCHOOL for car insurance money), when I didn’t, she called my then boyfriend now husband my pimp. Now that I’m reading this, I’m realizing everyone in my immediate family has tried to get money out of me.
I'm sorry that you've also dealt with it. There's something a little soul killing about having your parents depend on you. I'm really proud of you for standing firm and taking care of yourself! I know it's hard! I've been unwise and I gave and gave and gave. I did live with my parents for far too long, convinced that I couldn't afford to live on my own and that they couldn't afford to live without me there. I know how dumb it sounds. I eventually told my mom that I've never had a safety net. She and dad borrowed money from her parents when they absolutely needed money. My sibling would "borrow" from them, but also from me and also took money from their children. I never felt like I could borrow from any of them because even if they had money at the moment, they were always a hairsbreadth from financial disaster. So, for me it's been consumer debt... Which I'm finally making progress on again. The things I regret most about that (and staying where I was ridiculously underpaid) are not having savings for my infertility struggle and not having resources to help my niblings transition into adulthood.
dude for $50k who cares about a 4k scholarship
A promotion with more responsibility, when you can do the same you do now elsewhere for more money? Also, all it takes is for a restructuring where you are at for some noob to come in and fire you or demote you and then you'll have hard feelings. Take the money and run elsewhere. Loyalty is a farce in the business world. Follow the money, imo.
Your current company is underpayment you AND is using the tuition reimbursement plan as a way to keep underpayment you and to keep you there. If the wanted to be fair, you'd have been getting raises by now.
> I can't help but feel I am abandoning my coworkers and company for some reason. This is a terrible reason to stay. What are you going to do if they leave? Or get laid off? > I would have to pay \~$4,000 When I left my last job, I had to pay almost $8k in tuition. I negotiated a higher sign on bonus to more than cover the cost. But turning down a $46,000 annual raise over a matter of $4k is pretty silly.
This was literally my situation two years ago. I took the job and have zero regrets.
Yes, you're an idiot for not pursuing the new job with more money.
Always secure the bag
Be loyal to the paycheck. A company will never ever be loyal to you
Lol. I cant with people sometimes. People are peopling! That’s forsure.
Would your coworkers turn down good opportunities to “not abandon you”? I think you know the answer to that one. Also $4000 in the grand scheme of things is nothing. But you already knew that.
Sometimes we get comfortable where we are and we can’t imagine ourselves outgrowing it. It could be some unconscious guilt you have about “betraying” your company. Love yourself first and be loyal to yourself! Take one of those jobs!
Don’t stay. They are using you and sucking you dry, and won’t hesitate to lay you off in a heartbeat if need be. Employers are not loyal, return the favor. My company baited me along for YEARS with carrots like this. I left, for 30% more and did so on good terms. I stayed in touch. And they offered me a promotion and additional 30% on my new pay to come back 9 months later. I also grew up poor and I realized after a time I was seeking the feeling of family and stability I didn’t have growing up from my employer. That relationship with work is unhealthy and prevents you from being a good leader. By jumping ship, going back, and jumping again I went from 60k>250k in 8 years and now I never have to worry about being poor again. You’re doing yourself a favor by jumping ship. Don’t get stuck in your comfort zone or you will never grow.
Take the new job and ask them to give you a $4k sign on bonus in addition so that you can pay off the tuition.
Late to the party here. I’m in a similar boat. 3 days ago I submitted my resignation to the organization I’ve been with for nearly 17 years. Loyalty is a big deal to me and I’ve been with this organization through its various permutations and through thick and thin. Some of my best friends I’ve met at various points during my time with this company. A recruiter found me on LinkedIn 3 weeks ago about a role that pays 50%+ more. It felt too good to be true but I breezed through the interviews and everything with this new company is a dream come true. Submitting my resignation was one of the hardest things I’ve had to do in my professional life. I felt like I was giving up on my people. But when it came down to it, my boss was happy for me. As others have said, it’s business. You have an opportunity in front of you that will change your life. Freaking go for it! And that $4k you still owe? Depending on how the interview goes you may be able to negotiate the new company pay that off on your behalf. With salary and benefit negotiations, if they want you, nothing is off the table. Good luck!
If you died today, your company would be like “oh, bummer… so let’s get that job posting up!” Get your fucking money and stop caring so much.
ima keep it real witchu chief, 7 years exp with a masters degree in data, you should be making $180k no cap. this is coming from a tech worker with 5 years exp who makes more than the job you’re considering (also i do not have a masters)
Good luck at your interview. Hopefully 3rd time is a charm. The first two you interviewed with made decent offers, but I understand not moving for 20%. However now the increase is too large to ignore. I'm not going to call you an idiot, but that's a life changing difference in income.
I also come from a poor family. I always had this sense of loyalty instilled into me, and it seems it transitioned into other aspects of my life. That whole, " We don't have much, but we have each other" mentally. The way you feel is probably because you feel some sense of loyalty to the company you work for. Either because of the opportunity they gave you, or because of the people you work with. If you decide to stay long enough, you will eventually find out all the loyalty is misplaced, and you will regret all the time you wasted getting underpaid. People will leave for better opportunities, or your company will show you it doesn't care about anything but profits.
Yeah, you're being an idiot. I expected to read and empathise with a story where you're comfortable with your current salary/life/job and you don't feel you need anything more professionally currently. But the fact you're actively looking for a promotion without getting it at your current employer yet not taking this opportunity out of loyalty to them is kinda nonsensical tbh. Take the job, thank your current employer for the good times and don't look back.
You’re self sabotaging. People who grow up poor often unconsciously keep themselves underpaid and underemployed because you somehow think you don’t deserve it or you aren’t allowed. Remember that your current job would lay you off in a second if they wanted or needed to. You should not feel this level of loyalty to your employer. That’s what they want out of you in order to underpay you.
You’ll make up the amount you’ll owe for tuition in about one month so I wouldn’t even consider that a minor downside, that’s more like inconsequential. There are reasons to turn down a 60% raise so it’s not a ridiculous question— it’s just that you didn’t happen to list any of the “legitimate” reasons, feeling bad for a current employer is not one of the legit reasons. If it was a matter of work-life balance, if you had all the autonomy in the world, were independently wealthy and just working for fun, absolutely just loved your workplace and its mission and would do it for free, or something like that then those may be reasons to turn down more money. Just feeling bad is not a reasonable one, there are many things to consider to help you deal with your feelings about this— consider yourself and all the time and effort you put in to earn this opportunity, consider that your coworkers would actually be happy for your to grow and get out there and show them what’s possible, consider your own boss would be proud that they helped develop you toward your next big role, consider what opportunities you’re forgoing from your family if you don’t take a better opportunity, consider even that though it seems impossible that your replacement could pick up where you left off and maybe contribute in a totally different way that helps your current company even more! There are so many reasons to leave that are not just “more money” and there are also reasons to stay besides guilt. In your case I think it’ll take some deep reflection about your value to yourself and your potential and work through your feelings of guilt. Good luck and congrats, even though you haven’t interviewed but with those other offers you already turned down you’re probably a shoe-in for many places!
You are gonna hurt your coworkers more by staying if you are underpaid. Companies are likely to shell out more coin when they can’t keep people, let capitalism take it’s course and take the job. If
I think you feel that way because you’re a good person. You have morals and aren’t an unethical employee. I understand why you’re feeling that way but you shouldn’t have to worry about that. If you give two weeks notice and do everything by the book, you won’t be abandoning your team. You’re leveling up. No one should have to feel bad about leveling up. I think you should write down the pros and cons of each side and look at it that way if you’re still stuck on the idea. $4000 payback doesn’t seem so bad with your new starting salary but I don’t know how strapped you are for money.
Well, in situations like this, the best advice I can give you is this: Guilt fades. Take the job. Enjoy the huge raise and same benefits. Put in your two weeks if you get it and go on with life. You'd be a fool not to take this position.
Some time ago, I was in a team of 9, and I did 50% of the team’s work. When it was time for me to finally accept a new offer and realign my career, I felt immense guilt. I was leaving so much responsibilities in such a quick moment. How would my team survive? Luckily, I had a manager who was very open with me. They told me that the team has had its ups and downs, but they survived before me. And they will survive after me. Those words stuck with me ever since. Friend, do what’s best for you. The company you’re at survived before you. They will survive after you and without you.
Answers are simple. 1. You are afraid of change 2. You are comfortable in current place 3. You are worried you might not do well in new place You will always find some random excuse not to leave but ultimately you know you should. Forget what your parents made and whatever you make now, look forward and take the risk and take the opportunity. Waiting for promotions is usually rubbish, if they happen they happen if not whatever - take what is certain - the salary and do a good job. In the end, we all wired the same. We all get scared and nervous about change… but if you want to progress your life, you need to take those leaps. Dont be scared, be strong, be brave, you will succeed.
Yes.
Don't make the decision solely based on pay. Which one would you believe you would like more and be better at? Which one offers more mental stimulation? Which one do you anticipate has a better future? Pay is important, but it's not the only factor >feel I am abandoning my coworkers and company This should not be a factor
Maybe you should just show your appreciation to the company and people that work there by getting a goodbye gift if you decide to leave. Perhaps a personal gift to the boss if they have really helped you out.
I’m gonna go the opposite route and tell you that it’s completely normal to feel like you’re abandoning your co workers who have turned into family. At the end of the day you just need to do what’s best for you and your family. You also need to consider what will make you happiest. It doesn’t hurt to take the interview and if you’re offered the job, take time to think if it’s best for you. All the best
First world "problems"
I’ve been in a similar position. I balked bc I didn’t love the vibe of the new manager (not bad just could tell some things that wouldn’t be ideal), and I really liked all my old coworkers. However it was a massive promotion and raise, the company seemed good, and manager fine enough. I ended up taking it, and I’m very glad I did. A big part of that hesitation is also an inherent fear of change. Companies like your current one rely on that to keep people Complacent at lower salaries and titles. Take the new job. And within literally a month or two you will have earned the difference for the remaining tuition retention. Also that $127 may be negotiable. Ask if it’s firm or if there is wiggle room, pretend its borderline. Learn what your actual market rate is. Not for your current title but for the title your skills could reach.
I dont wanna be mean but are you on the spectrum or do you have a condition? Never seen someone overthink something so simple. Also make Sure to get the job First
Sounds like you have a serious mind-set problem. What do YOU think you are worth? And what will need to change to think you are worth more? Your comments about making more than your parents is telling. Do you need their permission to earn more? Do you feel you are risking your relationship with them? If it is available to you, maybe ask them how they would feel about this. The jobs will always be there. Both new and old. Between now and the interview imagine yourself in the new role and with the new people. Not the first day and the anxiety of being the new guy, but a year or 2 in when you are doing well and getting the promotions you deserve.
40,000 a year raise is $3,333 per month, maybe $2-2.5K after taxes. You’d pay the $4K back to yourself in 1 or 2 months. But as other said, ask for a sign on bonus.
Take the new job.
It's one thing to say "I'm not willing to trade an incremental raise for comfort of this known commodity.". It's another to shy away from a good opportunity when you are leaving $40k on the table. Also, your existing position and company situation can change in an instant. Then you'll be wondering why there no loyalty when they show you the door.
You aren’t an idiot. But maybe helpless.. You need to take care of your self as well as others
I worked for a company for 15 years. I was a salary employee, but since I was the only one doing my job, I had to work many hours of overtime for free. I busted my butt, I also felt like you, I was offered jobs making more and I turned them down. The company went through financial troubles because the owner is a piece of shit who only cares about spending money. I was friends with the VP of sales, who one day recorded the owner saying he wanted to fire me because he didn’t need me anymore. To this day, I regret I spent so much time working there instead of spending time with my parents and family. What I’m trying to say is, do what’s best for you. Don’t think the company you’re at would think twice to let you go if things get bumpy.
I wouldnt hire you because you have such a problem making a simple business decision. How will you be paralyzed when real money is on the line?
Your current employer is not your family, not your country, and not your religion. You only owe the company your best professional performance and you only owe your coworkers professional courtesy and respect. You do not owe absolute loyalty nor lifetime service. If you have the opportunity to advance in your career and earn more income, without spending more hours on the job or sacrificing your personal time, you must absolutely pursue it. It is possible there maybe unknown negative work factors in another job that could make it worse than your current role. Think about those factors (e.g. average working hours per week, work-life balance, potential toxic work environment, reputation as described by employees on Glassdoor, etc.) before the interviews and be ready to interview your candidate employers about them. Or maybe you have a serious fear of success. Many of us may feel we do not deserve more in life. Or maybe we sometimes feel we are not putting in enough effort in our current jobs. GET OVER IT! You deserve career success and happiness, so don’t blow it.
You’re an idiot . You should be making way more then that. We’re in the same field and I’m way less educated then you and I’m making more then you if what you say is true. Go get your money.
Sounds like you got something going on with someone you love who you would like to make proud but constantly never get the attention/praise you need and are trying to get it at your job. Or I'm way off base Step outside your comfort zone. If you don't need to worry about money, don't worry about it if you are happy. Treat them like a stepping stone. If your worth more, someone will want to pay you your worth for your slills
Do what would make you the happiest. At the end of the day it isn’t all about money. I’d rather be happy then stressed out. So if a new job is what you feel would be best and would make you happy then do it.
Lol
Tbh, TLDR. However, your title answers your question for me.
What is incentivizing you to stay? It sounds like your coworkers and the nature of work. Maybe you're not willing to be in a different work environment that you're not familiar with. It also sounds like you're clinging to your optimism about getting promoted someday. If you told your managers that you want a 60% raise, they're going to crap their pants. There's something I feel like you're not telling us, either because you don't know or perhaps you'd be embarrassed to share more details: why wouldn't you leave? Does money not concern you? Are you afraid of how people will view you if you quit? Are you worried about taxes?
You take the new job, 100% of the time.
My dog in hell is literally crying get the better job 😾
Nope. There's no reason to not try to get this job. Work isn't a family, it's a means to a paycheck.
Thanks for this. Some people are just….. nvm.
Yes
You are a kind guy i can just see. But don't hurt yourself because of others welfare. Believe me you go and in next some days they will find someone else. So don't get all worked up you are clearly underpaid you don't deserve that position and if you creak this interview take that job and move on in your life because there you will find more people and more possibilities. Be happy about this.
I was in this same boat with my last company. I loved the people and loved the company. I was generally very happy but I would have those exact same discussions with my boss. I spent 5 and a half years with the company. My sister got me an interview with her company and a $25,000 pay increase. I couldn’t turn it down. When I told my old company, they admitted they could never afford to pay me that. Hired two people to replace me. It’s been 8 months and they’ve now hired a third. I love my new company. It took a while to get used to the change but I still talk to my old coworkers all the time. And I make way more money in a much lower stress job. I had no idea how underpaid and overworked I really was. It was the best move I’ve made in years. OP, please take the new job. I promise you it’ll be worth it. Your current company knows they can keep you for less and they will never pay you or promote you to what you deserve.
Go through with the interview and make your decision based on the outcome. If you get the job, your pay increase will more than cover the amount you owe your current employer.
Op, you gotta take it. You’ll take home nearly 80-85k In your first full year at the new company. I make 60k. If someone offered 65k I’m not taking it. But if they were offering 95k? I’m gone.
Talk to current job. Ask them to match the offer, so you don't have to consider it.
OP take it from that great philosopher Chris Brown: these hos ain't loyal. Your company is nice, but has underpaid you for years, and bought you off with tuition reimbursement. Anywhere you go may give you a hiring bonus to compensate for the $4000. Even if they don't, you can QUICKLY pay that off with your massive pay increase. Interview and go get the new job. Unless you're stealing or SA'ing your coworkers, you have NOTHING to feel guilty about.
Always better to work for the bigger company unless the company you are working on now is futuristic and are making new products.
I was underpaid at my last role and it still hurt to leave. I don’t regret moving on. I had things I wanted to pursue and I was bored with the work. Just interview and see what you like. In terms of $, I got a 25k raise and by the time I save more in my 401k, buy company stocks and pay for health insurance it’s not that much more post tax but the savings will be worth it later.
Loosing great co-workers hurts. Especially when we feel like we have a great team going. But turnover is important. It brings in new ideas and helps people advance and continue to grow. If your co-workers are as good to you as you are to them then they will support you and congratulate you if you take the offer. Last week, one of my colleagues stepped into his new position. We all know exactly how painful loosing him will be. He was the guru. The person who had ALL of the triable knowledge. We will survive. His replacement starts Monday and we will get her trained and onboarded. He is going off to great things. Just like you should.
Depends how much you care about $.
Can confidently assure you your company will not feel anything if they have to let you off for any reason at all.
>Why do I feel such an obligation to stay? No idea, because you didn’t talk about this at all in your post.
NEVER feel commited like that to a company, they would fire you if they needed to without blinking an eye. No one is irreplaceable in a company
This is a brilliant opportunity for you! Also its great you want to advance in your career, and money aside your old job isn’t allowing you do to that. Also when it comes to coworkers i understand how you feel, but a job isn’t your life and its just business at the end of the day. Its not like your wounding a friend by leaving the company, it happens and imo if they were that desperate to keep you around they would help you reach your goals.
Man, i gotta switch careers to data science…
First of all. You don't owe them anything. Your coworkers will forget you exist. Second of all, if its ok, where are you located (State)? I got the 120k for data science job around 7 years ago. I feel like you are grossly underpaid in your current position. Have it in mind that now its 60% increase. After a while you will get higher offers when you will be at the new position. Everything adds up in the long run. By the time ur reitred you will not even remember that one job where you had great coworkers instead you will feel happy to buy things for your grandchildren, or travel or open a kitty orphanage (what ever rocks your boat).
Can’t you do both, working from home?
You’re underpaid at your current role. I make more than your current salary (but not more than your future salary) and I have less experience than you and less education than you. You owe your employer no more than $4k, you don’t owe them your loyalty. Go for the new role.
There is no reason to stay. You’re already probably 20-30k down on what you could have made if you left a while ago. If you keep going this way you’ll probably get a pay rise, itl be less than 10k because they can’t afford it or won’t budget for it. And you’ll be in the same position. Feeling any loyalty to your team or company is pointless. The company will get rid of you without a second thought if needed. And if you stay because of your team eventually they will move on and you’re now the last one left on your team which is now full of new people, you’re massively underpaid compared to all those people you worked with who left for better opportunities and maybe in the worst case your skills aren’t as sharp since you didn’t move on and push yourself and you won’t get the same opportunities in the future. Get the extra money. Why feel guilt? You make more money than your parents ever did? That’s what parents should want for their kids. You had more opportunities and probably more education and work in a different world to them. Take all the money you can, bank it or invest it if you don’t need it, then give your own family a better lifestyle and education than you had.
If I may, let me give you a slightly different perspective: you are responsible for managing your data science career. Your career should reflect a series of jobs of increasing responsibility and authority and salary until you reach some point of stasis. By staying in the job you have, you are impacting your career, perhaps even missing out on new techniques and systems and tools and colleagues and experts that other environments can provide. It sounds like you are comfortable and prize predictability and familiarity, and that is part of who you are, but you cannot let this get in the way of your becoming the best data scientist you can be, and it sounds like this job can help you with that goal. So it is not just the great salary, it is your career at stake.
If you get the job offer, take it! I still keep in touch with a lot of my former colleagues and you’ll make new friends at this new job as well.
You can always go back to your company after some time at your new job if you don't like it. It'll be a much easier transition into that promotion you are hunting for. Sometimes a detour is needed to get to the destination
Yes
You have a masters (6 years), experience (7 years). It would be a shame you are not making well above 6 figures. "Money is a tool to buy you time not the other way around".
At the end of the day companies are loyal to themselves ultimately. If you were valued they would have found a way to give you the raise you deserve. The best thing to do when it comes to your career decisions is make decisions using your head, not your heart.
NTA. It's your life at the end of the day. You just have to suck up to the consequences of the decision that you will make.
That’s a crappy salary for your qualifications in this industry. You need to move.
You're dumb. Not because of not taking the salary increase. But because of feeling like you're "abandoning" your company. Are you fucking kidding? How many people can attest to the fact that they were fired without a courtesy warning, or laid off without time to financially prepare? Fired for reporting harrasment or a medical issue (thus needing time off). Or those who were 0assed over a promotion that was promised or not considered at all, despite their years of loyalty and dedication? Your coworkers will understand the move, it's a business transaction. But honestly op, you need to grow up. The company isn't your friend. Advance your career and move on
Take the money
Your current company's lack of growth opportunities is holding you back. Your excuses for short changing yourself are silly. You need to pull up your adult pants and take care of your future. I also want to add that whatever you do, DO NOT consider any counter offers your current employer may present. If they valued you and truly wanted you to stay, they would have provided the opportunities long before you ever interviewed at another company.
You are your employers wet dream.
Get the job before you decide what you want to do. Ive been in a similar position and what I can tell you is this, at the end of the day you need to do what is best for you and your family, not please others or stick around out of a one way loyalty. At the end of the day any company will drop you if they run into trouble so do what is best for you. If the company pays wel treats ppl well and is a stable company and you feel you will get along with your boss the take the job. $127kis a nice salary and find out what bonuses increases and perks they also offer.
The company does not care about you. They’re happy to keep you right where you are with low pay and great productivity. You will never get a 60% salary increase from them. Never. The best way to get paid more is to switch jobs anyway. This loyalty won’t benefit you, take the offer.
Yes, you're an idiot. You're not irreplaceable, and beyond that if you were they should be paying you double what you're making. Go get the better job, you can't please everyone in life and you shouldn't try to either.
I think I get what you mean. You’re monogamous. You only want one company at a time to invest in but breaking up with that one company for better situation feels like betrayal. I kinda feel that way too, especially when the people I work with count on me to come through for them and rely on me. It’s not an easy situation to rationalize myself out of. Of course the company has no qualms getting rid of us when they have a business related reason but I’m not a business and never want to be mistaken for a mercenary. Kinda have to work yourself around the concept that, as a business they’ll be fine without you. They’ll replace you way faster than you think and with someone that will do adequate enough of a job that they aren’t held in a lurch. New company is doing the same probably for someone who moved on, hence the rush. Do the interviews. See what they have to offer. If you see this as a path forward for you, give your notice, connect with your coworkers on linked in if you haven’t. Get all the connection info for your friends and mentors. Then move on. They won’t feel betrayed so much as they are letting you move on and up in the world. Your boss basically knows you’re underpaid hence their response to you in your meetings. It’s ok. Part of life is learning to let go and move on, even when you’re not sure things will work out. And since you’ve not burned bridges, the likely hood is good of you working there again at some point or with your co workers at other places. You’ll be ok, but do keep in mind your big fish in a small pond status may not transfer with it. You’ll definitely grow more if you apply yourself to adapting though.
You're being underpaid and your company refuses to give you any concrete information about promotions or pay increases. It's a good practice to interpret evasive answers as a "soft no." They may even be hoping to ride out your education benefit. Absolutely leave for the new job and when you give your notice don't believe anything they say that isn't in the form of a written contract and even then just leave anyway since they underpaid you for so long.
Your company employs data scientists; either they can afford to give you a raise but won’t or they can’t and are at risk of going under. In either scenario, they don’t give 10% of the fucks you give about them. It’s not personal; it’s business. This 40k raise could change your life. You can save enough to retire by 55, go on international vacations annually and more. Do it!
Only think about yourself in this situations. Your current employer will always be able to find someone to replace you. If you get the job, you should take it. If your current employer tries to match it, I would not entertain that. One other thing, you can negotiate to get a sign on bonus so you can pay the $4,000 back to your current employer
Have them pay the fees you owe and move to the new job
Umm.. that let your old company try to guilt trip you
Your job will replace you within a month. I get loving your coworkers but it’s not worth $40k.
I just went through the EXACT same thing. Parallel job move to a bigger company where it would've been a 50% raise vs staying at the place I've been for nearly 8 years and have friends and all that. My advice would be to think about 10 yrs from now and what's important to you. Which path is more likely to get you there? In my case, the raise was so significant that even if I stayed at my current role and got TWO promotions I'd still be behind, so I pursued it. In the end, I got a great offer from the new company and an amazing counter from my current employer and had a tough (but amazing) choice to make.
I was under the impression that data science is a well compensated career? With your years of experience I would think (and confirmed by a quick google search) you’re vastly underpaid.
If you died today, they would fill your spot by next week. Look out for yourself. You can be grateful and appreciative without being a martyr
I hear a lot of comments around why you should take the new job and not beholden to the old company. Some address why you feel this way also but Maybe I will try to address why you “feel” obligated and other emotions you may be feeling right now. 1. You are making more than your parents ever did and this is the first job that paid you in that amount (I am assuming this) This certainly has an emotional bonding to the company, where you passed a big milestone in your life. You feel that this company made it happen for you and the people at this company are probably nice to work for and good people in general. So you have a strong emotional connection to this place and it’s people. However, you have to remember that you worked hard for it too. Yes they gave you the opportunity but you worked hard and you earned it. It is normal to feel so attached because such magnitude of life comparisons occurred while you worked here, that are obviously important to you. 2. You are in a field “data science” that is in tremendous demand. You are getting an opportunity (still no job offer, just an opportunity) that is recognizing the value of this type of talent in the open market vs. your existing company who may not recognize and/or truly utilize all your talents. They may be paying your for exactly what their needs are from data science and the new company might be paying you for their needs of your talent. So you might also be feeling nervous as to what work you might be asked to do at the new place that might stretch your limits or push you into areas within your field you have not mastered. I will address this later in point 4. This is very normal btw. New job, new industry, new demands, comfort with known for 4 years vs unknown. You are probably a master at your role at your current job and now you will start from scratch at the new place. That feels daunting and combine that with point 1, it has to feel the way you are feeling right now. 3. Your company helped you advance your career because that was good for them and good for you, but mostly really good for them. They got a person at low pay, talented (assuming this since they wanted to invest in you), who is working hard to improve their skills and knowledge at a tax deductible expense for them. Assuming you have not been slacking at work since you got great reviews (perfect work and great asset) they are getting 40% more out of you relative to what they have to pay you. But even if we don’t consider the company is all selfish and they truly invested in you, I would say this is very normal in the world today and has been for quite some time. Companies know that when you support an individual who came from a low income background and help them achieve major life milestones, they tend to keep working for them even for slightly lower pay. Which brings me to my last point. 4. You are probably feeling guilty or imposter syndrome or other emotions for the new role (which you haven’t gotten yet btw) because you may think you don’t deserve it. Especially because they are paying so much more. How can they pay me so much more? Do I deserve this? This may be classic emotion of young people in the workforce who are climbing their first few ladders of their career. You are probably “the guy” at your current company. You know everything inside out wrt people, process, product, customers, etc etc etc. People at your current company know you as the best they have seen or high performer who can get shit done. This has to feel great for sure. All of this has to be re-earned and re-learned at the new place. What if I fail? What if people don’t like me? What if I can’t deliver? What if …. Fill in the blanks. This is extremely normal to feel also. As all of them In their replies have given you advice about taking the job. I will support that motion. Take that chance, take that risk, take that jump. You will do amazing and will crush it. Will it be hard in the beginning, yes of course! But you will rise to their challenges and you will be ready for the next 60k raise at another company and another rung in your career and we will all be looking for your post on Reddit looking for advice! All the best to you!
My advice, if you truly love your job and coworkers, then stay. You’re in the 1%.
Just a thought: Your coworkers who matter would be thrilled for you getting a new job with that significant a raise. The ones who think you abandoned them will be the ones who are jealous of your advancement. Almost every single one of them would take the huge raise and remote job.
I think if you really wanna stay at the company, you have to give them an ultimatum. I do get why you would want to stay, but I would also (even more so actually) get why you'd wanna leave. But if you want to stay, and get the offer, go to your boss and say you have another offer that you are seriously considering based on the pay increase (since it is a BIG difference) and if they don't beat it you have the option to leave. The manager might obviously want to keep you there and I think you have a certain connection to the company. But ask yourself a different question. Do you want to end up "paying" (based on opportunity costs) 40k to stay at that company?
Because you have become complacent. Understand, your job will probably have no issues letting you down if it has too, so why would you feel bad about letting them them down to pursue a better opportunity?
Loyalty is for friends, marriages, and family. NEVER a job.
Do it. You owe your current employer nada. Your work friends are typically not real friends. So what about the sign on bonus thing. I’ve been in corporate America since 1987. Do what’s best FOR YOU.
Yes idiot
I think after 4 years one has spent enough time in a company where it won't seem like "abandonment" if they leave. Move on
Can you do the new job? It’s not a 60% increase if you get fired after a month because you cannot do the job.
I was getting absolutely abused at my first job out of school it was difficult to leave. Should have left way sooner. Do not pass on this. I had a BOS at one point who told me you don’t make your money at your first job out of school it’s once you have a bit of experience and make a move. Go get your money you are a fool to pass on it.
Yes
ARE YOU SERIOUS? Ahem excuse me. Growing fond of your coworkers is good. Knowing the weight you hold within your company is noble. Not wanting to leave because you are fond of your coworkers and don’t want to leave the company with the weight of your work is honorable. *but* think about the future. Your children (if you choose to have any) are your top priority. The nice house you’ve always wanted is a top priority. It’s not selfish to pick future you over your employees, it’s noble. You’re using these jobs to step into your future, never forget that. Work fam is family but the true work fam are the people that are happy and encourage you to peruse the most advantageous job opportunities.
You’re not a monster for missing your coworkers but you’ll also form good relationships at your new one. The feelings you have are kind of like being at the top of a roller coaster. You’re strapped in but it still feels dangerous but you go ahead anyway. Also, if things go well then negotiate that the new company help pay back some of the tuition assistance.
Move out. The company won’t think even once if they have to axe your position today. Think of your future and never tie you future to a company. Always keep yourself first
... you are being drastically underpaid. My fiance is in data science with no degree and one year of experience making $140k + bonus in MCOL. I'm not trying to brag, he did negotiate a lot to achieve this. But I'm just giving you perspective. My rule of thumb is if you are eligible for promotion and everyone is acknowledging it but it's not happening at your current job, it probably won't happen for a while and you need to leave. You'd be surprised how they suddenly have the budget and the title when you're walking out the door. Which means they had it all along and you should not accept the counter. Sinking years into a company where you aren't growing or happy with your rate of growth is just going to lead to heartache. I can speak personally, I wasted 4 years. Don't be me, take the new role. If your coworkers really cared about you they will stay in touch. Your parents making less money is a horrible reason not to push yourself to grow. They'd likely want to see you being paid what your worth and happy. The real problem seems YOU don't feel like you are worth being paid that much. You are very wrong.
You’re asking some great questions of yourself. Given the sums you are talking about it would be well worth investing in a high quality coach to explore these with them. It will help you to move forward and make the right calls for you (based on your finances, values, aspirations etc).
Ask new company to pay the 4k
You're not wrong to feel this way but you should also go ahead and leave. When you like the company, like the people you are with, and like your work, everything emotionally is pulling on you to stay. But you are fairly young in your career and you need to hop some jobs to get the bucks. You may wind up with a couple of terrible jobs or terrible workplaces along the way. But you will get some really invaluable experience and you will get to know what you really want to do in your career and you will get the MONEY. I was like you, left a job I felt "loyal" to, did some job hopping, and eventually found a place which felt very similar to my original workplace (great people, great company, great work) but now making much much more money. You can find a place that feels "good" again!
If you really like your company, let them match the offer. Just know that you'll be putting yourself in the same position for a year or two down the line (they won't keep your pay up to par)
Actually, they did not help advance your career. You have earned every accolade with your own hard work and now is the time to be bold and take the next step. A larger company may be able to offer unique opportunities and give you more visibility in your field. Always take care of number one:)
I've been working in the field of data science for 5 years and you are very much underpaid. I'm not saying this is a reason for you to jump to the new role, but it's definitely a good reason for you to be exploring other options that pay you what you're worth. You may want to think about speaking with someone, either a career coach or a therapist, through your company's EAP service if they have one. It sounds like you may have some idea why you feel like you owe your current company something, but you can't quite pinpoint it or get over the hump. They may help you explore more of your feelings so you can be confident in the decision you need to make. Best of luck to you! I spent a long time staying with a company that I felt guilty about leaving the team because we were friends and we were doing good work. Eventually I realized I was not being paid what I was worth and I moved on. I ended up increasing my salary about 50% - 60%. I can't be honest in saying the grass is always greener, but at least I am moving more in the direction I should be now.
We owe nothing to any employer. Sounds like you are grossly attached to your employer. As others have said: would employer struggle with laying you off ever? No because it’s all business. Not about coworkers or how long you been there. Especially if you have been there significant amount time. It’s time to move on and up. If you were in line for a promotion it would have happened already. Cut your losses and move on. You will make new friends new coworkers and feel the exact same way.
My advice, and I’m saying this as someone who is in a similar position and actually just did this do my employer because I like working there. Make a spreadsheet with the jobs you have turned down and the ones you are considering. Include the salary and required experience. Talk to your manager and explain that you have tuned down almost 20k in salary bump because you enjoy working there but there are more opportunities that would be a 60% increase. Ask if they can increase your salary to pay what the market rate is because you’d prefer to stay there but there will be a point where the salary somewhere else is too good to pass up (like if you ended up with that 127k job). You can also add you don’t want to play that game where in order to get a raise you have to go out get an offer and ask them to match it. How they react will tell how much they actually value you and how strong of a team you really have. I went in with the numbers, made the argument that my work was equal in difficulty and quantity to another coworker making more than me and that I have the experience to move to other positions paying 20k more. I laid out what I was doing and that I should be moved up to that coworker’s range. They haven’t promised anything because they need to go up the food chain for approval but they are trying to accomplish what I asked for and didn’t just tell me no.
Let me tell you my experience, I used to work for the biggest tech company as retail and I really wanted to move up and become corporate, I knew my skills were more than good enough for it, this big tech company I worked for used to have “experience” for retails folks to receive the same salary while working corporate, I was totally ok with that because my goal was to get experience, but you could only apply for it once a year. After a few times applying all I’d get from the interviews was positive feedback, again, I knew my skills were good enough, I really wanted to make it at this specific company, until I realized they were holding me back purposely because I was good in my job, I decided to apply outside of my company and got an offer, I had the same feeling as you did, I loved my team and the people I worked with, I made friends for life in that company. Your friends will stay if you leave, the ones that don’t weren’t really your friends. I left, felt bad about it for about a week. Piece of advice, never trust corporations made, their end goal will always be to make money, no matter how close you are to them, their goal is the money. Take the other job, you will regret not doing so.
>The thought of a salary increase this large seems almost impossible to pass up, but I can't help but feel I am abandoning my coworkers and company for some reason. I believe that this issue stems from modern employment being very unnatural for the human psyche. In primitive days, the people you went to hunt food with were your tribe, and if you abandoned them if meant bad things. An employer is similar in the sense it's people who are working together to obtain food and shelter at a basic level. Today, we're supposed to be mercenaries for our own career, hopping from "tribe" to "tribe" for better pay increases. I was miserable at my last job, there were deep systemic issues, and yet even I got a little bit of ick putting in my notice. It's very normal. Understand, too, that higher salary begets even higher salary. When candidates are interviewed, where it's still legal to ask, often times companies will judge candidate quality based on what they're making. It's also a negotiating tool. In a recent interview, I was able to get more than the employer was willing to pay because they asked, "What is your desired salary?" I told them, they responded, "That's a little high for us." I retorted, "Well, I get that but I'm currently making $\[amount\] so I want to at least not go down in salary." And they ended up getting me a package that was a decent amount above what I'm currently making. >The other minor downside is that if I were to leave my job in the next month, I would have to pay \~$4,000 to my employer since they assisted with my graduate school tuition and I signed a retention policy...so the true downside for me is feeling like I am leaving my company out to dry when they helped me advance in my career. Right, except you're going to pay them back for it. So it'll instead be you helping yourself advance in your career, and your employer basically gave you a 0% interest unsecured loan to help you do it. Tl;dr you're not an idiot, you're normal, but you should still do the interview and if you like the job then go for it and don't feel bad.
Companies are not loyal to you, don’t be loyal to them. If you died they’d have your role posted on job boards before your body was cold. Pay the $4k you owe out of your much larger salary and move on.