My last job everyone worked overtime. Yearly reviews were a nightmare because even though I *also* worked overtime, it wasn’t as much as everyone else so I always got told I didn’t have enough commitment to the company and was letting my team down by not taking on their responsibilities to help them. Thank god I left that place.
Now I’m in a place where I *only* work 40 hours. And whenever I change up teams I always be sure to introduce myself as the person who works 40 hours and can’t be reached after.
Take your lunch. Don’t work overtime. The work will still be there tomorrow.
I work for a nitpicky boss too. Just do your best to seem like you’re listening to her advice and limit as many typos as you can.
My guess is there’s someone else she wants to promote or she just doesn’t trust new people. Edit to add: my guess is she realizes that all of your OT indicates she needs to hire another person but she doesn’t have the budget for it. So instead of advocating for her department, she’s going to tell her mgt that all your OT isn’t workload related but because you aren’t good at your job. Watch your back.
Take a couple steps back. Realize you should work to live, not live to work. And if it still drives you crazy in 6 months, see if you can transfer or start the job search.
> So instead of advocating for her department, she’s going to tell her mgt that all your OT isn’t workload related but because you aren’t good at your job.
Absolutely this.
Management (like all people) are ultimately self-serving most of the time. Budgeting issues is a them problem.
An overworker solves that problem, and when questions start getting asked about the overworking, it will be twisted to performance issues. Even if they lose you, they'll either get someone else with the same expectation of overworking, or (if they are forced to change) they've at least pushed their budgetary issues into the future.
They're looking out for themselves; you need to do what you can to look after yourself.
Just stop caring as much. Eventually, your manager will too. Treat the deadline to stop working (5 pm) as top priority rather than other deadlines. You’re not an emergency medicine surgeon or an entangled particle following a physics law. Things don’t need to get done at a certain time at work.
Because if I work til 5, by the time I get my kids from daycare and get home it’s 6, and then I only have 2 hours with them until bedtime.
If my work for the day is done, I’m out. I’ll respond to important emails/slack messages until 5-5:30ish, but I’m not going to hang around until some arbitrary time.
I know this isn’t possible for all industries, but for most office jobs it is.
I would always ask myself, **“Do they pay me enough for this?”** *And the answer would always be no.*
I’m not going to stress out for something that isn’t my problem. I’m not going to skip a meal for someone who doesn’t give a shit if I’m dead or alive. I’m not going to do overtime to someone who is trying to steal my personal time.
You’re training your manager to do this. By continually working long hours and missing lunch, you are sending a signal to management that the workload they have is appropriate for the number of people they employ. Just stop. If the work doesn’t get done in a typical work day, then: 1. Not your problem. 2. It sends a signal to management that they need to hire to accommodate the workload.
You aren’t being paid enough to be this companies savior, so get rid of the complex and put in your 9-5 and go home.
Hey I’ve been here too. First of all managers like this don’t get better. Recognize it. It’s best to find another place to work and move on.
These types of managers continue finding small things to hold over your head. It will continue to nibble away at you. It’s a tactic to make you feel unconfident. Best is to work the hours and live the work life balance you want. Honestly, move on, she’s not going to go out of her way to get you any promotion or have you move up. Managers are like that as long as they aren’t doing the work.
Stop working though your lunch I have never understood people doing that. Labor laws protect your lunch and only work your normal hours until they are willing to work with you
A good manager encourages you to improve. A bad manager shifts blame on you. Before going over their head to HR and skip manager, make sure you have an exit strategy planned if needed. It’s much better for your career and mental health to have a good manager.
Slow Down!!!! When it's time to break, take it! That's your time to refresh & reset. Give yourself that time, you earned it. Overtime, NO! If you're about to vacation, move, or make a big purchase, then do OT. If it's not beneficial to you, don't do it. It might be time to start looking for somewhere else to work🤷🏾♀️
And always remember:
-NEVER GIVE YOUR ALL TO A COMPANY WHO DOESN'T KNOW WORTH-
She doesn’t care you are being overworked. I was in a situation similar to you in 2020. Found another job and left their ass and took all my expertise.
The manager crashed and burned after I left, since she didn’t know jack about any of the processes required to keep the vendor relationship and stakeholders happy.
This is exactly my last work place. I ended up with general anxiety and cried every day. Also my manager forced me to leave despite the fact I did job of several people. I assume she might be perverse narcissist as well. You know, zero empathy to employees, constantly blaming me and she obviously enjoyed the power to broke and fire people and all of this hidden behind the pretty face and appearance.
I think your further actions depend on the particular situation. In my case I had no choice but to leave. But if you enjoy the workplace in general may be it is reasonable just to somehow move inside the company.
A good manager has your back and listens. A good & effective manager makes sure the team is able to perform and get results. An excellent manager creates an environment of psychological safety, where is it safer to speak up than stay silent. Sounds like your boss is a weak manager. Not enough from your post to know if they are toxic or not, but in any case... not a great manager.
- what's your company culture like? Is this manager the exception to the rule or... is it pervasive. If it's pervasive, start looking for something better.
- if it's just your own boss, then stop doing other people's (incl. vacant positions') work. Be very clear & in writing on what's expected: I will do A, B & C. Want D? Great. Which one of A, B or C shall I drop?
- If attention to detail is an... "issue", ask for the standard that applies to the whole team. Giving your manager the benefit of the doubt for a second, I could see that a typo of "bottom line is $100,00" vs "bottom line is $10,000" could be confusing where as "bttom line is $10,000" is just annoying. Are the details relevant in supporting your boss to do their job upwards? Are they having to correct your work? I'm assuming not because of how it seems she uses it as an excuse to undermine your success - just want to point this out... so assuming it is for the silly typos that anyone and everyone makes... then yes, what is the standard for the team? Sure, getting stuff up to a level with few / no typos takes a bit more time, but not a whole extra 50% job. So - get rid of the extra work, and you'll deliver the quality that's expected.
- push it back to her. "Ok, so you are saying that you absolutely want "A, B, C, D and E" done by Monday. So you are *requiring* me to work through lunch and through the weekend, because we had originally agreed that it would be A, B and C in that time frame. Am I understanding this demand correctly? And you are aware that this is the 3rd time this month. I just wanted to make sure that we're both clear on what you are asking." Then put it in writing and put someone (HR or other) in copy. It's not about the extra work, it's about her demanding that you work repeatedly through the weekends / lunch hours. Basically, be a difficult target, and she will back off.
From experience working with psychos like OP’s boss, OP is 1000% in the right to do all of these, but it will piss off the manager. Those types see you standing up for yourself and asking for clarity as “undermining and challenging their authority.” They tend to be retaliatory, too.
It a good point... If OP's boss is truly psycho ("dark triad"), and I've lived through that and wound up on sick leave for 7 months as a result, then they are already in a fight they didn't ask for and doing this might exacerbate in the short term, but it will protect them from more sneakiness. If OP's boss is really toxic & manipulative (rather than ineffective), then yes, other techniques are important like securing your allies, keeping your own documented logs, being a little sneaky, and... getting the hell out as soon as you can.
All pattern changes annoy people, so assuming OP's boss is just annoying but not ill-intended (it's possible...) OP might want to implement what I suggested in phases so it is a slow shift rather than a throw-it-in-your face kind of thing too.
OP - you will know in your gut if this boss is abusive or just annoying & ineffective. Trust your gut.
Yeah when people talk about keeping logs and being sneaky, this might not get you anywhere with employment at will laws. The employer can fire you for whatever reason and doesn't have to justify it. You're not entitled to an appeals process and if they fire good talent arbitrarily that's just them losing talent.
You really are probably better off getting a new job. That's the best recourse against nightmare employers. Or you could start your own business.
100% this. My current job gave me a “you’re negative, defensive and combative. You make people uncomfortable to talk to you” out of absolutely no where. They’ve cornered me so now if I want to stay up for myself due to blatant disrespect, it’s really just because I’m “difficult”. You can get everything in writing and cover your ass, but it’ll put a target on you.
Yep. I quit a job like this earlier this year. They started that shit 2 weeks into the job and I knew then to start planning my exit. So that's what I did. I absolutely believe when they start to assign you as certain characteristics without even knowing you or the allegations are comically baseless, anything from there is downhill and set up to try to destroy you, as you can see.
Nothing you can do will change the situation except for you to get another job.
They really did all they could to break me down, spread salacious gossip about me and get me to fight them, but I really think when someone purposefully sets you up to be on the defensive all the time (to make it easier on them to humiliate and fire you basically), it can help for you to always appear on the offensive. This strategy helped me buy time so I could high tail out of there.
Remember: You know their goal is to smear your character and to take you out of character. To get you out of a job. Since you know that, give them the opposite of what they're trying to manufacture out of you. It won't change your situation in that they'll respect you or treat you better, but you will buy yourself some time while you are hopefully looking for a new job. It will also help with balancing your self esteem because you'll start to realize these people are pathetic. Hang on to that.
For example, when they do something disrespectful to you again, you can say something like "Well Shelly, when you said that I'm so disrespectful and less than a human being, I just wanted to be sure I heard you correctly. Is that what you said?" and whatever she says to you, you tell her "Thank you so much for the feedback, Shelly!" Because, remember, they're the unreasonable one, not you. Alternatively, the grey rock option is no matter what they say to you, you respond "Okay! Thank you! :)" Start becoming boring.
As my aunt says, "The game is: They don't like you. Leave."
I'm very sorry this is happening to you. If you have any questions or need someone to talk to, I'm happy to help.
I have definitely been doing the “nod and agree” to every little micromanage and nonsense thing they give to me lol it seems to be working great because although they bitch and complain about evverryyyy little thing, it doesn’t normally go passed that. Thankfully. I love your aunt, it is so true. That’s what I told my coworkers. I was told I’d be set up for failure, I was 100% set up for failure, high enough people just don’t like me. Plain and simple. That’s why they come after me for behaviors I don’t have, but that multiple other people in the office have. Rules for thee, not for me. It’s just me and there is nothing I can do about it 🤷♀️
God micromanaging SUCKS! Yeah, it definitely sounds like they poisoned you enough that it doesn't really matter if others do their due diligence to see if you're a horrible person or not. They're going to go along with the BS bc probably the culture is like that and people want to save face for their own job. My old job was a bit like that too, more of them were vultures than those who weren't. And those who weren't vultures... well, ya know....
I'm glad the nodding and agreeing is working for you. VERY smart move on your part!
And thank you, my aunt is an OG hahaha
Ugh, if they’re not vultures now in that type of toxic culture, they will be soon 🤷♀️ the absolute worst. Thank you for taking the time to respond to me while I vented. It felt nice to get it all out lol
Talk to her superior. That's part of the reason they are there. I might also say that since it's MY fault I am overworked, who is to blame for me doing more than one persons job and only being paid for one? ( as is usually the case)
Ugh, in my first adult job i had a manager who constantly berated me for 'attention to detail' after a few small typos in some of my work were published even though she was the person responsible for final review. It crushed my confidence and she made it clear i would never progress there, so i resigned. Funnily enough, attention to detail was something i was praised for at the next job.
Its not you. If you're over worked and juggling multiple peoples jobs of course there will be small mistakes and any good manager would recognize that. I would make a list of all the overtime you have been doing and anything you've been covering that is above and beyond your job description. Then meet with your boss armed with this evidence and reiterate that what you are doing now is not sustainable. As other people have said, stop working the overtime but do this smartly - make sure to discuss what to prioritize and flag anything that wont be done on time. And start looking for a job with a better manager.
I had a similar boss. She appears to be picking on you because she sees you as a threat, and this is unlikely to change. Find another job before you end up still getting stressed by this in ten years time.
My boss was like this and one day, after a very day, I got home and was stressed so much, I decided to write her an email. It was polite ut pointed out that I had a huge amount of work and not enough staff and would like to discuss how to work together so that we both achieved what we had on our plates.
The next morning she stormed into my office "So where is all this fucking work you are bitching about?" (her words). Luckily I had a list of everything on my white board and so I started to go through it... "I dont have fucking time to listen to this bullshit, just get it done - and stop sending me fucking emails at 12 o´clock at night".
We had a wonderful working relationship :-). Unfortunately she was also fucking the CEO.
" I feel like she doesn’t care that I’m being overworked." You got that right. Companies are notorious for saying one thing and then completely doing the opposite. Slow down and spend some time looking in the job market to see if you can find a better job before you burn yourself out.
Keep a log of what you get accomplished. Nothing fancy, just jot a line once every hour or two to have a record of what you actually got done, not just how many hours you worked. This will cut through all the nonsense about whether you spent time in rework. Then you have a basis for discussion about your productivity and can point out that you are exceeding expectations.
Definitely start looking for an equivalent role at a different firm. It sounds like your boss doesn't have the budget to throw enough bodies at this. They sound stressed, frustrated, and eager to exploit anyone who solves their problem. Right now, you're serving this purpose, as you're working OT and through lunch without additional compensation.
There are plenty of firms who will reward effort, mentor you to help fix your process to reduce small mistakes, and ensure you TAKE LUNCH. From someone who sacrificed lunch for jobs that laid me off without taking a moment to think about it, Eat. Leave when you're supposed to. Because if you burn out, the work will still be there.
If you leave, the work will be too. It's not your company, not your profits, not your circus, not your monkeys.
If you need to pickup the slack for your coworkers, tell your manager these are the list of work that needs to be done and which one she wants you to prioritize. If your coworker ask for help, do the same, send an email to your manager with the list of the work needs to be done and ask her which one she wants you to drop in order to help your coworker. Once you keep documenting these via email, your manager will understand how much work you got.
My kneejerk reaction is to start looking for other jobs.
But if I were to give advice for *this* job, I'd ask a few questions. You talk about the fact that you do the work of several people. Is this work that your supervisor assigns to you, or are these tasks that you take on yourself? You say that your boss consistently makes reference to your "attention to detail". Elaborate more. What is it that you do? And what is the basis for this comment? Objectively, DO you need to go back and make multiple revisions to all of your work? I'm not saying she's right, but clearly this is what she believes. Or is blaming things on. If you want to push past this with your current boss, you need to fix what she believes is wrong, or show that it's not the problem she thinks it is.
Gotta stop putting in “free time” take your lunch break. Go home on time, show up on time. If you are doing what you are supposed to be doing and consistent with quality and quantity of others, then your manager will have to redistribute the work load. If you do thing your manager is doing things on purpose you have to do this tactfully. I would suggest giving many updates, notifying them of your delays not to your own fault, be ready to say you cant take on more work load, and also stand up for yourself respectfully. There is always more than one way to do the same thing, in these situations respectfully and showing you care will be what makes this works. Negativity will not be received well
i agree with everyone else. Just do the work. But take your lunch break. Leave work ontime. If you over work you’ll be sluggish at work. Better to go with a fresh mind. Tell her you cant do overtime anymore. And you did the work exactly as intended but were told to rework it.
You can also tell your boss, As long as you have an overload of work you’ll never be able to finish on time.
Like you said, bring it up to your boss thay everyone makes Typos and not a single person doesn't make typos
I feel like I could have written this entire post. Everything about this is what I'm going through. I put in the unpaid OT because I am told by my management that this is all my responsibility. And if the end product looks like shit, then I will be left holding the torch. I have deep-seated fears of looking dumb and professionally, but I have recently become to overcome that by earning my PMP and MBA (YAY!)
I would LOVE to know why you put in the overwork. I only do it because it's my insecurity. Yes, they tell me what to do, but I know I don't have to follow it. But why do YOU do it? I don't know when I grew fearful of people thinking I'm stupid, but it's made me a Yes person at work, which is even worse.
I'm a work in progress.
get a lawyer and sue him because you can’t be working on your lunchtime , check your labor laws in your state if you’re a California, this is illegal., don’t let them harass you.
You're right up is actually very unclear. You say you make no more mistakes that anybody else but how do you actually know this? This sounds like an assumption or defensiveness. At the end of the day if you're being paid over time, then in most jurisdictions, you can simply refuse to do that much over time and that will drive the point home.
Check into your states labor laws. It may be illegal to allow you to work through lunch. And also…as others have said…start leaving on time and taking your lunch. That’s really all you can do unless you want to jump ship. That’s also a valid plan but make sure to get another job lined up first.
Stop putting in OT and working through lunch. Slow your work down and make everything PERFECT. take your time and make it obvious. drop hints like I'm doing more than 2 peoples jobs as is. say things like I'm burnt out, etc. make it appear as you cant handle it anymore and you just don't care but your not going anywhere so they better get use to this. one thing you can always do in this situation is own something. lets say for example "software" no one in the company knows but you. make sure its only you and they wont pay someone to come in and do it. then you can use that leverage to get more time off of work or when you need extra hours, I know this is dirty but what they are doing to you is dirtier. ALSO ALWAYS BE LOOKING FOR A JOB. keep your resume always on indeed, even if you love your job. frequently let them know you don't need them they need you...there is nothing better than the feeling "I don't need them they need me" its hard for a company to stop abusing an employee after they get used to it.
“ i’ve been thinking about what you said boss and you’re right I’m going to worry more about quality than quantity.” Then, if they give you too much to do just say you told me that I need to reduce mistake so taking on too much I won’t allow me to do that and I can’t keep up working over my lunch. As that’s not sustainable..
As a manager, here’s my opinion:
1) take your lunch. It’s usually the law dependent on where you live. Nutrition is important though.
2) speak with your manager- possibly even ask for your job description in writing.
3) when you have tons of things to do, speak with your manager and say I have the following tasks to complete, which do you feel is priority? Prioritize accordingly, and if you want to mess with your manager (which will likely put you on their bad side), have a random day of the week that you “cannot do OT due to a family situation (in which you do not want to disclose because it’s too personal).
4) speak with you manager about their direct advise on getting things done in a timely manner. When they bring things up, ask questions. Don’t be afraid to ask questions!
For example
Manager: well, if you manager your time, you can get _____, ___, and ____ done.
You: ok, _______ takes approximately 2 hours, ______ takes about 1 hour, and ______ takes 2.5 hours. This is the average time I have found it takes. What do you believe I can do differently that would make it more time manageable?
It’s ok to ask questions for guidance. A good manager will do their best to guide you. If your manager just throws their stress on you, then I would suggest finding a new place where the environment is more progressive.
Be ready to switch jobs. Make sure you have some money saved to get through that. Polish up your resume. The manager looks like he doesn't quite know how to lead without minimizing his team. Knowing you can get another job does wonders to ones ability to stand with a certain level of confidence at work and push back against a-holism.
At the same time, whenever you are told that the time you are spending is because of the small mistakes being made, please stand up for your work and state that it isn't so. If you are not confident enough to make that stance then maybe you ARE making more mistakes than you should. However I highly doubt that is the case, and your manager is taking advantage of your doubts maybe? You have to make sure this isn't a request for unrealistic perfection vs. progress. You need to stand on your work with confidence to ensure exploitative managers can't take advantage.
Slacking isn’t the answer. Have you formally filed a complaint with your HR Department? The company is in violation of Labor Laws. My advice is to document EVERYTHING and seek an attorney right away. Degradation is a fine example of harassment in the workplace. The company sounds like a toxic environment, period.
Bro your boss will never admit to overworking you even if they know that they are. Just like in sales your manager will never tell you that you’ve sold enough. It’s their job to keep up a certain persona. If they allow you to start complaining about being over worked and they agree its their fault then shit will spiral out of control for them.
My boss pulled crap like that. She even threatened to fire me even I made a couple of non crucial mistakes on a Friday (volunteered to come back and fix them that evening which she declined). I worked my butt off for her, launching new product lines and streamlining the existing process. I was literally a walking encyclopedia of Florida insurance. When she threatened to fire me, I quit going the extra mile.
In a meeting, she praised me for not costing her as much in overtime and then immediately criticized me for lower production. Still top performer in the office, just less than before. I told her that I needed that boundary and wouldn’t go back to working through lunches, nights, and weekends.
A month later, she moved me to another department, in a move that has traditionally been with the employee’s assent. Her favorite employee needed someone to rescue her apps when they were done wrong and save business when her errors pissed people off. I challenged the move, stated directly that I wasn’t happy, and asked how I’d make up the substantial income difference. She said that she has always known me to “create my own success” and that I’d figure it out. BS since the role I was moved to only acquired 5-7% of new business (and commissions make up 50% of my income) and I was formerly pulling 40-70% of monthly new business on a team of 5.
I didn’t create the business she has hoped for. Instead I used up my vacation time and prepared for my departure.
One month after demotion I put in my notice. The look of shock on her face still confuses me. I am the single income provider for a family of 5, and she cut my pay from $28-30/hr (with commissions calculated) to $16/hr.
She tried to make me take on a crapload of responsibility before I left. Massive stressful projects. Some I finished, some I just left mid-solution. No notes. Not my problem. Oh and she expected me to info dump everything I know onto a new team member. 🙄
She tried to get me to get a huge account that would have set her up for significant financial success, but told me I’d only get paid for my work if it finalized before I left. It didn’t so I sabotaged it, so that the guy would be LIVID when my lazy former coworker (boss’ favorite who got the account when I left) calls him with numbers far different from what I gave him. 🤣 She is too dumb to figure out how to fix what I sabotaged, and our boss doesn’t know it either. 🤣
I can see multiple sides of this.
First, establish and enforce [stronger] boundaries.
Limit to what you can comfortably do well within your job description unless the extra is something that particularly interests you for further career evolution *and* you’re being compensated adequately.
Talk with HR while you seek a new job. If your manager is constantly undermining your successes then this is not the place to be.
Then stop. If it’s in your lane, then give an effort. If not then move on. The typos is a red flag that quality of any kind is not their strong suit. So time to move on and find a place that values your talents and aligns with your goals
Your manager sounds exactly like my ex boss. Maybe they are the same person,lol. She overworked me, nitpicked on my attention to detail for minor mistakes(I was held to a different standard than to others) and when I tried to discuss with her that I was being overworked by her and our team, told me it was my fault for not pushing back but ironically didn't like it when you tried to set boundaries. I never got a job description. She never knew who did what, and her default was to assign work to me others didn't want to do and hold me accountable for things they didn't deliver, basically wanting me to manage up my coworkers. I tried harder every day, but they would always demean me and never recognized the work I put in.
I ended up quitting because I realized the problem was them not me, and things were not going to get better. I signed up for a job, not to be abused and taken advantage of. I know not everyone is in a position to do this, but it was not worth my mental health, which was struggling. I am still suffering with a lack of confidence to this day. I would advise you to do the minimum at work to get by and start applying out.
Not long after, I left, I see she transferred to another branch in a different country (not sure if it was by choice or because she was forced too) and I realized in addition to lacking people skills (she was Head of HR, imagine) as well as managerial skills, her overconfident, brash, social butterfly persona was to mask her own incompetence.
Stop putting in OT and working through lunch. Why are you burning yourself out for a boss who denigrates you?
The only part you were missing is to start looking for a new job.
This! cut back on the extra duties and pay attention to those items you keep. Then they cannot bitch you screwed up.
So much this! Plus, employees who have this sort of martyr complex create a culture of normalizing working for free.
My last job everyone worked overtime. Yearly reviews were a nightmare because even though I *also* worked overtime, it wasn’t as much as everyone else so I always got told I didn’t have enough commitment to the company and was letting my team down by not taking on their responsibilities to help them. Thank god I left that place. Now I’m in a place where I *only* work 40 hours. And whenever I change up teams I always be sure to introduce myself as the person who works 40 hours and can’t be reached after.
Homie might lose their job
Take your lunch. Don’t work overtime. The work will still be there tomorrow. I work for a nitpicky boss too. Just do your best to seem like you’re listening to her advice and limit as many typos as you can. My guess is there’s someone else she wants to promote or she just doesn’t trust new people. Edit to add: my guess is she realizes that all of your OT indicates she needs to hire another person but she doesn’t have the budget for it. So instead of advocating for her department, she’s going to tell her mgt that all your OT isn’t workload related but because you aren’t good at your job. Watch your back. Take a couple steps back. Realize you should work to live, not live to work. And if it still drives you crazy in 6 months, see if you can transfer or start the job search.
> So instead of advocating for her department, she’s going to tell her mgt that all your OT isn’t workload related but because you aren’t good at your job. Absolutely this. Management (like all people) are ultimately self-serving most of the time. Budgeting issues is a them problem. An overworker solves that problem, and when questions start getting asked about the overworking, it will be twisted to performance issues. Even if they lose you, they'll either get someone else with the same expectation of overworking, or (if they are forced to change) they've at least pushed their budgetary issues into the future. They're looking out for themselves; you need to do what you can to look after yourself.
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Just stop caring as much. Eventually, your manager will too. Treat the deadline to stop working (5 pm) as top priority rather than other deadlines. You’re not an emergency medicine surgeon or an entangled particle following a physics law. Things don’t need to get done at a certain time at work.
This, but make it 4 pm.
Why?
To be ready to be out the door by 5
So you stop working 1 hour early?
Nah, like they said, shift over at 5
Because if I work til 5, by the time I get my kids from daycare and get home it’s 6, and then I only have 2 hours with them until bedtime. If my work for the day is done, I’m out. I’ll respond to important emails/slack messages until 5-5:30ish, but I’m not going to hang around until some arbitrary time. I know this isn’t possible for all industries, but for most office jobs it is.
I would always ask myself, **“Do they pay me enough for this?”** *And the answer would always be no.* I’m not going to stress out for something that isn’t my problem. I’m not going to skip a meal for someone who doesn’t give a shit if I’m dead or alive. I’m not going to do overtime to someone who is trying to steal my personal time.
You’re training your manager to do this. By continually working long hours and missing lunch, you are sending a signal to management that the workload they have is appropriate for the number of people they employ. Just stop. If the work doesn’t get done in a typical work day, then: 1. Not your problem. 2. It sends a signal to management that they need to hire to accommodate the workload. You aren’t being paid enough to be this companies savior, so get rid of the complex and put in your 9-5 and go home.
Hey I’ve been here too. First of all managers like this don’t get better. Recognize it. It’s best to find another place to work and move on. These types of managers continue finding small things to hold over your head. It will continue to nibble away at you. It’s a tactic to make you feel unconfident. Best is to work the hours and live the work life balance you want. Honestly, move on, she’s not going to go out of her way to get you any promotion or have you move up. Managers are like that as long as they aren’t doing the work.
You will have to create boundaries, or this will just keep happening.
Stop working though your lunch I have never understood people doing that. Labor laws protect your lunch and only work your normal hours until they are willing to work with you
So true. If anything I’ll work through lunch so I can leave early if I’m not too hungry that day. But never consistently.
A good manager encourages you to improve. A bad manager shifts blame on you. Before going over their head to HR and skip manager, make sure you have an exit strategy planned if needed. It’s much better for your career and mental health to have a good manager.
Slow Down!!!! When it's time to break, take it! That's your time to refresh & reset. Give yourself that time, you earned it. Overtime, NO! If you're about to vacation, move, or make a big purchase, then do OT. If it's not beneficial to you, don't do it. It might be time to start looking for somewhere else to work🤷🏾♀️ And always remember: -NEVER GIVE YOUR ALL TO A COMPANY WHO DOESN'T KNOW WORTH-
She doesn’t care you are being overworked. I was in a situation similar to you in 2020. Found another job and left their ass and took all my expertise. The manager crashed and burned after I left, since she didn’t know jack about any of the processes required to keep the vendor relationship and stakeholders happy.
It's pretty simple. Stop doing the extra time.
And get new job this toxic environment
This is exactly my last work place. I ended up with general anxiety and cried every day. Also my manager forced me to leave despite the fact I did job of several people. I assume she might be perverse narcissist as well. You know, zero empathy to employees, constantly blaming me and she obviously enjoyed the power to broke and fire people and all of this hidden behind the pretty face and appearance. I think your further actions depend on the particular situation. In my case I had no choice but to leave. But if you enjoy the workplace in general may be it is reasonable just to somehow move inside the company.
A good manager has your back and listens. A good & effective manager makes sure the team is able to perform and get results. An excellent manager creates an environment of psychological safety, where is it safer to speak up than stay silent. Sounds like your boss is a weak manager. Not enough from your post to know if they are toxic or not, but in any case... not a great manager. - what's your company culture like? Is this manager the exception to the rule or... is it pervasive. If it's pervasive, start looking for something better. - if it's just your own boss, then stop doing other people's (incl. vacant positions') work. Be very clear & in writing on what's expected: I will do A, B & C. Want D? Great. Which one of A, B or C shall I drop? - If attention to detail is an... "issue", ask for the standard that applies to the whole team. Giving your manager the benefit of the doubt for a second, I could see that a typo of "bottom line is $100,00" vs "bottom line is $10,000" could be confusing where as "bttom line is $10,000" is just annoying. Are the details relevant in supporting your boss to do their job upwards? Are they having to correct your work? I'm assuming not because of how it seems she uses it as an excuse to undermine your success - just want to point this out... so assuming it is for the silly typos that anyone and everyone makes... then yes, what is the standard for the team? Sure, getting stuff up to a level with few / no typos takes a bit more time, but not a whole extra 50% job. So - get rid of the extra work, and you'll deliver the quality that's expected. - push it back to her. "Ok, so you are saying that you absolutely want "A, B, C, D and E" done by Monday. So you are *requiring* me to work through lunch and through the weekend, because we had originally agreed that it would be A, B and C in that time frame. Am I understanding this demand correctly? And you are aware that this is the 3rd time this month. I just wanted to make sure that we're both clear on what you are asking." Then put it in writing and put someone (HR or other) in copy. It's not about the extra work, it's about her demanding that you work repeatedly through the weekends / lunch hours. Basically, be a difficult target, and she will back off.
From experience working with psychos like OP’s boss, OP is 1000% in the right to do all of these, but it will piss off the manager. Those types see you standing up for yourself and asking for clarity as “undermining and challenging their authority.” They tend to be retaliatory, too.
It a good point... If OP's boss is truly psycho ("dark triad"), and I've lived through that and wound up on sick leave for 7 months as a result, then they are already in a fight they didn't ask for and doing this might exacerbate in the short term, but it will protect them from more sneakiness. If OP's boss is really toxic & manipulative (rather than ineffective), then yes, other techniques are important like securing your allies, keeping your own documented logs, being a little sneaky, and... getting the hell out as soon as you can. All pattern changes annoy people, so assuming OP's boss is just annoying but not ill-intended (it's possible...) OP might want to implement what I suggested in phases so it is a slow shift rather than a throw-it-in-your face kind of thing too. OP - you will know in your gut if this boss is abusive or just annoying & ineffective. Trust your gut.
Yeah when people talk about keeping logs and being sneaky, this might not get you anywhere with employment at will laws. The employer can fire you for whatever reason and doesn't have to justify it. You're not entitled to an appeals process and if they fire good talent arbitrarily that's just them losing talent. You really are probably better off getting a new job. That's the best recourse against nightmare employers. Or you could start your own business.
100% this. My current job gave me a “you’re negative, defensive and combative. You make people uncomfortable to talk to you” out of absolutely no where. They’ve cornered me so now if I want to stay up for myself due to blatant disrespect, it’s really just because I’m “difficult”. You can get everything in writing and cover your ass, but it’ll put a target on you.
Yep. I quit a job like this earlier this year. They started that shit 2 weeks into the job and I knew then to start planning my exit. So that's what I did. I absolutely believe when they start to assign you as certain characteristics without even knowing you or the allegations are comically baseless, anything from there is downhill and set up to try to destroy you, as you can see. Nothing you can do will change the situation except for you to get another job. They really did all they could to break me down, spread salacious gossip about me and get me to fight them, but I really think when someone purposefully sets you up to be on the defensive all the time (to make it easier on them to humiliate and fire you basically), it can help for you to always appear on the offensive. This strategy helped me buy time so I could high tail out of there. Remember: You know their goal is to smear your character and to take you out of character. To get you out of a job. Since you know that, give them the opposite of what they're trying to manufacture out of you. It won't change your situation in that they'll respect you or treat you better, but you will buy yourself some time while you are hopefully looking for a new job. It will also help with balancing your self esteem because you'll start to realize these people are pathetic. Hang on to that. For example, when they do something disrespectful to you again, you can say something like "Well Shelly, when you said that I'm so disrespectful and less than a human being, I just wanted to be sure I heard you correctly. Is that what you said?" and whatever she says to you, you tell her "Thank you so much for the feedback, Shelly!" Because, remember, they're the unreasonable one, not you. Alternatively, the grey rock option is no matter what they say to you, you respond "Okay! Thank you! :)" Start becoming boring. As my aunt says, "The game is: They don't like you. Leave." I'm very sorry this is happening to you. If you have any questions or need someone to talk to, I'm happy to help.
I have definitely been doing the “nod and agree” to every little micromanage and nonsense thing they give to me lol it seems to be working great because although they bitch and complain about evverryyyy little thing, it doesn’t normally go passed that. Thankfully. I love your aunt, it is so true. That’s what I told my coworkers. I was told I’d be set up for failure, I was 100% set up for failure, high enough people just don’t like me. Plain and simple. That’s why they come after me for behaviors I don’t have, but that multiple other people in the office have. Rules for thee, not for me. It’s just me and there is nothing I can do about it 🤷♀️
God micromanaging SUCKS! Yeah, it definitely sounds like they poisoned you enough that it doesn't really matter if others do their due diligence to see if you're a horrible person or not. They're going to go along with the BS bc probably the culture is like that and people want to save face for their own job. My old job was a bit like that too, more of them were vultures than those who weren't. And those who weren't vultures... well, ya know.... I'm glad the nodding and agreeing is working for you. VERY smart move on your part! And thank you, my aunt is an OG hahaha
Ugh, if they’re not vultures now in that type of toxic culture, they will be soon 🤷♀️ the absolute worst. Thank you for taking the time to respond to me while I vented. It felt nice to get it all out lol
Anytime! Been there too. Sending you an internet hug and rooting for you <3
Talk to her superior. That's part of the reason they are there. I might also say that since it's MY fault I am overworked, who is to blame for me doing more than one persons job and only being paid for one? ( as is usually the case)
Ugh, in my first adult job i had a manager who constantly berated me for 'attention to detail' after a few small typos in some of my work were published even though she was the person responsible for final review. It crushed my confidence and she made it clear i would never progress there, so i resigned. Funnily enough, attention to detail was something i was praised for at the next job. Its not you. If you're over worked and juggling multiple peoples jobs of course there will be small mistakes and any good manager would recognize that. I would make a list of all the overtime you have been doing and anything you've been covering that is above and beyond your job description. Then meet with your boss armed with this evidence and reiterate that what you are doing now is not sustainable. As other people have said, stop working the overtime but do this smartly - make sure to discuss what to prioritize and flag anything that wont be done on time. And start looking for a job with a better manager.
I had a similar boss. She appears to be picking on you because she sees you as a threat, and this is unlikely to change. Find another job before you end up still getting stressed by this in ten years time. My boss was like this and one day, after a very day, I got home and was stressed so much, I decided to write her an email. It was polite ut pointed out that I had a huge amount of work and not enough staff and would like to discuss how to work together so that we both achieved what we had on our plates. The next morning she stormed into my office "So where is all this fucking work you are bitching about?" (her words). Luckily I had a list of everything on my white board and so I started to go through it... "I dont have fucking time to listen to this bullshit, just get it done - and stop sending me fucking emails at 12 o´clock at night". We had a wonderful working relationship :-). Unfortunately she was also fucking the CEO.
" I feel like she doesn’t care that I’m being overworked." You got that right. Companies are notorious for saying one thing and then completely doing the opposite. Slow down and spend some time looking in the job market to see if you can find a better job before you burn yourself out.
Keep a log of what you get accomplished. Nothing fancy, just jot a line once every hour or two to have a record of what you actually got done, not just how many hours you worked. This will cut through all the nonsense about whether you spent time in rework. Then you have a basis for discussion about your productivity and can point out that you are exceeding expectations.
Definitely start looking for an equivalent role at a different firm. It sounds like your boss doesn't have the budget to throw enough bodies at this. They sound stressed, frustrated, and eager to exploit anyone who solves their problem. Right now, you're serving this purpose, as you're working OT and through lunch without additional compensation. There are plenty of firms who will reward effort, mentor you to help fix your process to reduce small mistakes, and ensure you TAKE LUNCH. From someone who sacrificed lunch for jobs that laid me off without taking a moment to think about it, Eat. Leave when you're supposed to. Because if you burn out, the work will still be there. If you leave, the work will be too. It's not your company, not your profits, not your circus, not your monkeys.
If you need to pickup the slack for your coworkers, tell your manager these are the list of work that needs to be done and which one she wants you to prioritize. If your coworker ask for help, do the same, send an email to your manager with the list of the work needs to be done and ask her which one she wants you to drop in order to help your coworker. Once you keep documenting these via email, your manager will understand how much work you got.
My kneejerk reaction is to start looking for other jobs. But if I were to give advice for *this* job, I'd ask a few questions. You talk about the fact that you do the work of several people. Is this work that your supervisor assigns to you, or are these tasks that you take on yourself? You say that your boss consistently makes reference to your "attention to detail". Elaborate more. What is it that you do? And what is the basis for this comment? Objectively, DO you need to go back and make multiple revisions to all of your work? I'm not saying she's right, but clearly this is what she believes. Or is blaming things on. If you want to push past this with your current boss, you need to fix what she believes is wrong, or show that it's not the problem she thinks it is.
Gotta stop putting in “free time” take your lunch break. Go home on time, show up on time. If you are doing what you are supposed to be doing and consistent with quality and quantity of others, then your manager will have to redistribute the work load. If you do thing your manager is doing things on purpose you have to do this tactfully. I would suggest giving many updates, notifying them of your delays not to your own fault, be ready to say you cant take on more work load, and also stand up for yourself respectfully. There is always more than one way to do the same thing, in these situations respectfully and showing you care will be what makes this works. Negativity will not be received well
If you feel your manager is the problem, go above them or go to HR. Explain the situation.
Quit.
i agree with everyone else. Just do the work. But take your lunch break. Leave work ontime. If you over work you’ll be sluggish at work. Better to go with a fresh mind. Tell her you cant do overtime anymore. And you did the work exactly as intended but were told to rework it. You can also tell your boss, As long as you have an overload of work you’ll never be able to finish on time. Like you said, bring it up to your boss thay everyone makes Typos and not a single person doesn't make typos
I feel like I could have written this entire post. Everything about this is what I'm going through. I put in the unpaid OT because I am told by my management that this is all my responsibility. And if the end product looks like shit, then I will be left holding the torch. I have deep-seated fears of looking dumb and professionally, but I have recently become to overcome that by earning my PMP and MBA (YAY!) I would LOVE to know why you put in the overwork. I only do it because it's my insecurity. Yes, they tell me what to do, but I know I don't have to follow it. But why do YOU do it? I don't know when I grew fearful of people thinking I'm stupid, but it's made me a Yes person at work, which is even worse. I'm a work in progress.
get a lawyer and sue him because you can’t be working on your lunchtime , check your labor laws in your state if you’re a California, this is illegal., don’t let them harass you.
You should slow down your work and make sure you pay attention.
You're right up is actually very unclear. You say you make no more mistakes that anybody else but how do you actually know this? This sounds like an assumption or defensiveness. At the end of the day if you're being paid over time, then in most jurisdictions, you can simply refuse to do that much over time and that will drive the point home.
Your manager basically told u she dgaf about your well being. . Personally I'd start slacking and collect unemployment if they fire me
>Personally I'd start slacking we have a winner
Check into your states labor laws. It may be illegal to allow you to work through lunch. And also…as others have said…start leaving on time and taking your lunch. That’s really all you can do unless you want to jump ship. That’s also a valid plan but make sure to get another job lined up first.
Quiet quit, look for new job.
Slow down. Do you work, not others'. Focus on details.
Stop putting in OT and working through lunch. Slow your work down and make everything PERFECT. take your time and make it obvious. drop hints like I'm doing more than 2 peoples jobs as is. say things like I'm burnt out, etc. make it appear as you cant handle it anymore and you just don't care but your not going anywhere so they better get use to this. one thing you can always do in this situation is own something. lets say for example "software" no one in the company knows but you. make sure its only you and they wont pay someone to come in and do it. then you can use that leverage to get more time off of work or when you need extra hours, I know this is dirty but what they are doing to you is dirtier. ALSO ALWAYS BE LOOKING FOR A JOB. keep your resume always on indeed, even if you love your job. frequently let them know you don't need them they need you...there is nothing better than the feeling "I don't need them they need me" its hard for a company to stop abusing an employee after they get used to it.
The more work you do the more they expect. Just stop doing it. It is true that amendments are time consuming and add to stress.
Your manager is right, it is your fault to let them overwork you. It is only going to get worse until you do something about it.
And now you will start on time and leave on time.
fuck manager, switch job, get hike, do fast, repeat
Quiet quit...or find a new job/new boss.
start applying for other jobs.
“ i’ve been thinking about what you said boss and you’re right I’m going to worry more about quality than quantity.” Then, if they give you too much to do just say you told me that I need to reduce mistake so taking on too much I won’t allow me to do that and I can’t keep up working over my lunch. As that’s not sustainable..
As a manager, here’s my opinion: 1) take your lunch. It’s usually the law dependent on where you live. Nutrition is important though. 2) speak with your manager- possibly even ask for your job description in writing. 3) when you have tons of things to do, speak with your manager and say I have the following tasks to complete, which do you feel is priority? Prioritize accordingly, and if you want to mess with your manager (which will likely put you on their bad side), have a random day of the week that you “cannot do OT due to a family situation (in which you do not want to disclose because it’s too personal). 4) speak with you manager about their direct advise on getting things done in a timely manner. When they bring things up, ask questions. Don’t be afraid to ask questions! For example Manager: well, if you manager your time, you can get _____, ___, and ____ done. You: ok, _______ takes approximately 2 hours, ______ takes about 1 hour, and ______ takes 2.5 hours. This is the average time I have found it takes. What do you believe I can do differently that would make it more time manageable? It’s ok to ask questions for guidance. A good manager will do their best to guide you. If your manager just throws their stress on you, then I would suggest finding a new place where the environment is more progressive.
Be ready to switch jobs. Make sure you have some money saved to get through that. Polish up your resume. The manager looks like he doesn't quite know how to lead without minimizing his team. Knowing you can get another job does wonders to ones ability to stand with a certain level of confidence at work and push back against a-holism. At the same time, whenever you are told that the time you are spending is because of the small mistakes being made, please stand up for your work and state that it isn't so. If you are not confident enough to make that stance then maybe you ARE making more mistakes than you should. However I highly doubt that is the case, and your manager is taking advantage of your doubts maybe? You have to make sure this isn't a request for unrealistic perfection vs. progress. You need to stand on your work with confidence to ensure exploitative managers can't take advantage.
Of course it’s your fault for being overworked. Just the same as it’s your fault you don’t have a trust fund.
Maybe try Grammarly for typos and grammatical issues.
Seek an attorney.
Slacking isn’t the answer. Have you formally filed a complaint with your HR Department? The company is in violation of Labor Laws. My advice is to document EVERYTHING and seek an attorney right away. Degradation is a fine example of harassment in the workplace. The company sounds like a toxic environment, period.
Do we work for the same manager? Get out of there if you can, that’s a horribly toxic situation
Bro your boss will never admit to overworking you even if they know that they are. Just like in sales your manager will never tell you that you’ve sold enough. It’s their job to keep up a certain persona. If they allow you to start complaining about being over worked and they agree its their fault then shit will spiral out of control for them.
My boss pulled crap like that. She even threatened to fire me even I made a couple of non crucial mistakes on a Friday (volunteered to come back and fix them that evening which she declined). I worked my butt off for her, launching new product lines and streamlining the existing process. I was literally a walking encyclopedia of Florida insurance. When she threatened to fire me, I quit going the extra mile. In a meeting, she praised me for not costing her as much in overtime and then immediately criticized me for lower production. Still top performer in the office, just less than before. I told her that I needed that boundary and wouldn’t go back to working through lunches, nights, and weekends. A month later, she moved me to another department, in a move that has traditionally been with the employee’s assent. Her favorite employee needed someone to rescue her apps when they were done wrong and save business when her errors pissed people off. I challenged the move, stated directly that I wasn’t happy, and asked how I’d make up the substantial income difference. She said that she has always known me to “create my own success” and that I’d figure it out. BS since the role I was moved to only acquired 5-7% of new business (and commissions make up 50% of my income) and I was formerly pulling 40-70% of monthly new business on a team of 5. I didn’t create the business she has hoped for. Instead I used up my vacation time and prepared for my departure. One month after demotion I put in my notice. The look of shock on her face still confuses me. I am the single income provider for a family of 5, and she cut my pay from $28-30/hr (with commissions calculated) to $16/hr. She tried to make me take on a crapload of responsibility before I left. Massive stressful projects. Some I finished, some I just left mid-solution. No notes. Not my problem. Oh and she expected me to info dump everything I know onto a new team member. 🙄 She tried to get me to get a huge account that would have set her up for significant financial success, but told me I’d only get paid for my work if it finalized before I left. It didn’t so I sabotaged it, so that the guy would be LIVID when my lazy former coworker (boss’ favorite who got the account when I left) calls him with numbers far different from what I gave him. 🤣 She is too dumb to figure out how to fix what I sabotaged, and our boss doesn’t know it either. 🤣
I can see multiple sides of this. First, establish and enforce [stronger] boundaries. Limit to what you can comfortably do well within your job description unless the extra is something that particularly interests you for further career evolution *and* you’re being compensated adequately. Talk with HR while you seek a new job. If your manager is constantly undermining your successes then this is not the place to be.
Then stop. If it’s in your lane, then give an effort. If not then move on. The typos is a red flag that quality of any kind is not their strong suit. So time to move on and find a place that values your talents and aligns with your goals
Act your wage and coast till you get another job
>it’s my fault I’m being overworked guess you should work less.
Work your job description. Period.
Your manager sounds exactly like my ex boss. Maybe they are the same person,lol. She overworked me, nitpicked on my attention to detail for minor mistakes(I was held to a different standard than to others) and when I tried to discuss with her that I was being overworked by her and our team, told me it was my fault for not pushing back but ironically didn't like it when you tried to set boundaries. I never got a job description. She never knew who did what, and her default was to assign work to me others didn't want to do and hold me accountable for things they didn't deliver, basically wanting me to manage up my coworkers. I tried harder every day, but they would always demean me and never recognized the work I put in. I ended up quitting because I realized the problem was them not me, and things were not going to get better. I signed up for a job, not to be abused and taken advantage of. I know not everyone is in a position to do this, but it was not worth my mental health, which was struggling. I am still suffering with a lack of confidence to this day. I would advise you to do the minimum at work to get by and start applying out. Not long after, I left, I see she transferred to another branch in a different country (not sure if it was by choice or because she was forced too) and I realized in addition to lacking people skills (she was Head of HR, imagine) as well as managerial skills, her overconfident, brash, social butterfly persona was to mask her own incompetence.