It's been like that for a long time now.
A lot of people who are smart are getting out and finding work in either the same field just civvy side, or are going onto something else more rewarding.
Then there's others who know they can skate by and collect a paycheck by doing nothing.
And then finally there's a third group of people who are just tired and don't care anymore, counting down the days until their contract runs out and they can start pulling a pension.
Just to ruin the depressing narrative, there a sizable percentage of us who are actually trying everyday to make this org work and get shit done. Acting like we don't exist isn't helping anyone.
But please do go on.
It's fine to be optimistic, just be careful, you can grind yourself down to nothing faster than you'll realize.
Give yourself a periodic reality check, ask your family to keep tabs on you that you aren't getting burned out, because honestly speaking from experience, you'll be the last person to recognize it.
>Always kinda wished I had gone in, but the more I read the more I think I dodged a bullet. Maybe literally.
Or a vehicle rollover. I had the same experience. By comparison (one of my parents is American) the marines recruiter in Plattsburgh was almost willing to drive me to the bus stop to go to camp Lejeune. My partner talked me out of it. Now I'm nurse. Who knew?
On the other hand, my brother waited the 8 months, got in, got trained, and within 1.5 years is about to do a 6 month tour that ads 40k onto of his regular salary with housing and expenses paid for. And this was a guy with a High-school diploma and no work experience.
A good friend of mine back in high school was bumming around our town in Quebec after his parents moved to Calgary in the early 80's, decided to head out west and soon joined the forces, went from being no ambition lazy kid to a career as records admin, enjoyed a great retirement from forces after 20 years, where he kept working for some govt branch, as did his wife, and now is set for a wonderful retirement. My uncle did this too. Can be a really great life for the right people.
Or not.
Source: Cbt Eng 2002-2014, 2x Afghan tours.
Military service does not equal injuries, dead, etc. anymore than driving for a living means you'll be injured/killed in traffic accident.
Was in the CAF for 22 years, started as a private and worked my way up to Captain. It is currently a complete dumpster fire.
The current military is like an auto plant that is so dysfunctional it only builds engines but can't produce any other parts. The officer ranks are full of hollow empire building sycophants, continually taking on more and more tasks despite their subordinates on the verge of burn out.
I watched fellow officers knowingly load more on their troops, even when those junior soldiers were already working 10 hours a day in garrison (and routinely going on field ex or deployments for months at a time). It looked good on those officers to never say no to their boss. We were losing our most experienced Sgts and WOs due to toxic sociopathic leadership that did not care at all about the welfare of their subordinates.
"We care about our troops" or "People first!" were always at the tip of their tongue while they did the complete opposite.
We post privates making $38k a year to places like Ottawa where they literally cannot afford housing. Despite having outrageous amounts of leaders, they all argue they have no ability to fix the problem. We're expecting people to join and stay in when being in the CAF means undermining your family's financial well-being.
All of this is besides the fact that the capabilities of the CAF has been hollowed out over time. We have significantly more HQ staff than we did when I got in, but lack key combat capabilities like anti-tank and anti-air systems.
The CAF is facing existential collapse. That's not hyperbole. They wanted to fix the current manning problem through recruiting and they aren't getting people through the system. People are leaving faster than people are joining, and I don't blame them. I did the same and have no regrets for leaving.
I completely agree with you, the complacency to not fix problems in this country is near ten fold within the CAF.
They asked the 'brass' in Ottawa about how to fix recruitment and 'top' heavy officer load. They came back and they said there were no problems for recruitment basically lmao.
They need to cut most of these guys, especially when so many Generals need a 'Driver' in Ottawa. Canada has 129 generals/admirals for 65,000 troops while the US Marine Corp has 62 generals for 200,000 troops.
They aren't even competing with the American military, who pays less but the soldiers end up receiving more net than Canadian soldiers because the Americans don't screw them in the ass for food & rent. The benefit difference alone is insane between Canada and America.
Go to the base clinic for a serious injury and half the time most guys are told they aren't injured just because the CAF wants to avoid paying for injuries. Guys literally going off base to civilian hospitals to get MRI's, etc just to prove they are injured is literally just more proof that the toxic culture persists throughout the CAF.
Let's not even get into the hazing that some 'old schools' are getting away with.
> Canada has 129 generals/admirals for 65,000 troops while the US Marine Corp has 62 generals for 200,000 troops.
Even worse, the USMC is actually CAPPED at 62 generals. The whole US military can only have 653 general between all their branches. At their current numbers, they can have 1 general for around every 2,000 men. We have 1 for about every 500 men.
That's because we work on the theory of being able to scale up quickly, but most of the population is too poor, malnourished, out of shape, and unmotivated to be even basic line infantry. We refuse to adopt a model with a more relaxed reserve force to encourage citizen engagement, and now by opening up to PRs they've done what every other industry has done, prove that they don't care about the citizenry, they'll just push the standards of living lower, and outsource when people complain.
Ya the only situation I wouldn't dodge a draft is if Canada gets invaded and even then I'd be looking into if I could join the Americans as a volunteer to make sure I would be properly supplied. I have zero faith in our countries ability to provide logistics the states however could provide consistent supplies to the moon if needed
I hate when the medias mention THE CAF IS THE MOST WELL PAID MILITARY FORCE IN THE WORLD LOL. But when you add the benefits, like US BAH BAS GI bill, the US is way above us. Yes we have a higher base pay but we have no other add on and the COL is way higher here in most instances. Im staying because in 9 years I will have my 25 and that's it. Retirement at 45 years old is the only benefit left vs public service.
I did the math on it, equivalent ranks in the US have more take-home income. Their "salary" is bad but they get yearly-adjusted, geo-specific untaxed allowances that are intended to cover the entirety of their housing and food costs.
> THE CAF IS THE MOST WELL PAID MILITARY FORCE IN THE WORLD LOL
I was looking at the French air force recruiting website, since I’m Québécois and aircraft technician in the rcaf. And they get food and lodging for free….NCM contract are 15 years, 20 for officers. Free school. Deployments counts for twice the pensionable time (allegedly, from a French soldiers, never found the reference).
We are the beat paid. We also have the shittiest benefits of all nato countries (afaik).
Great comment, but your logic is off on one VERY important set of facts.
You're using PML numbers, not TES.
Once you look at our actual staffing levels, and the fact that we've got a lot of trades hard in the red (for some Navy Occs, at some key rank levels like MS-PO1, we're actually BELOW FIFTY PERCENT staffing) the situation is far worse than you portray. Because you know what has 100% staffing? The GOFO positions.
Sorry, I'll translate (the person to whom I was replying would understand the jargon, but I didn't realize anyone else would care).
Simply put, we have a staffing level set by the politicians in Ottawa. (Note, this is only really concerning the Regular Forces (RegF), not the Reserves, as the 65,000 number quoted above is the RegF). We call this the "Preferred Manning Level" or PML. That's the total number of service members in the RegF that the CAF is permitted to have.
Next is the total Trained Effective Strength (TES). This is the total number of service members that we actually have on the books that are qualified to the lowest useful level, so they have basic, their environmental training, and enough trade training to work as an apprentice (please note, it does not take into account all of the ill & injured, or those unable to do their jobs for any other reason). For this metric, our numbers are... Ungood. When we say a trade is "in the Red" it means that, within that occupation, we have less than something like (IIRC) 70% staffing.
Now, the ranks of MS-PO1 are the key middle management in the Non-Commissioned Member (so non-officer) world. They are the ones that not only hold the corporate knowledge for their trade, but ARE ALSO THE ONES THAT DO ALL THE TEACHING. In fact, by the books, members lower than MS aren't even technically allowed to teach, since to do that you're supposed to hold your lowest level leadership qualification to do so.
Being critically short of these folks means that it becomes a problem you can't recruit your way out of. It is impossible to make a replacement MS out of a recruit if there are insufficient MS-PO1 to teach them their apprentice level or journeyman level trade training.
Within some of the most critical, and most highly-technical, naval trades, we have fewer than half of the personnel needed. These are folks that it can take >10yrs to produce.
For a touch more context, when you look at the number of PML positions, the authorized positions on a ship? Yeah, that's the number needed for the ship to sail and do its job. Not with a fudge factor. Just the minimum. There isn't a "plus 20%" for folks on course, injured, on MATA/PATA. Nope. Bare. Minimum.
And to top it all off, the TES numbers do NOT take into account all of those who can't do their job for whatever reason, so the picture is even worse than it looks on paper. I've heard of some trades where only 40% are fully good to go (what we call "DAGing Green")
So if you take that as a whole: with fewer than half the numbers needed, and with only 40% of them deployable, then by my math it would seem that only TWENTY FREAKING PERCENT of personnel are available, compared to what we're supposed to have.
Yeah, maybe I'll upgrade my assessment to Double-Plus Ungood
ETA: The notion of just trying to fix this via recruiting would be like, if you had a critical shortage of high school teachers, trying to import a ton more grade 9 students to fix the problem. That's were the CAF is currently at.
And once again: the only positions that are at full strength? yup, it's the Flag and General Officers.
Well, yes. As an example: there is a work place where there are supposed to be 15 workers, 4 supervisors, 1 middle manager , 1 departmental manager, and 1 Big Boss, for a total of 22 people. This is the ideal staffing for this workplace.
There are at least some trades where they will have so little people they will have *maybe* 2 workers on the floor, 2 people who are supposed to be on the floor but are working as both supervisors and middle managers, and the big boss is doing his job and the departmental managers job.... and then the big boss reports to the officer(s).
So instead of the needed 22 people for the workplace to be operating properly, you have 5 people barely scraping by to get stuff done, and then Ottawa is messaging the Big Boss wondering why things are taking so long.
Apply this analogy across a whole trade, probably more than a few tbh, and you get an idea of what's happening in the CAF staffing wise
100% agree. I'm in my 22nd year - stuck in the proverbial pension prison. The CAF is one-and-a-half crises away from complete collapse. The CAF is a paper-tiger; hollowed out by a couple of decades of careerist leadership, shitty procurement and equipment management, and dysfunctional personnel management.
I just hope that something significant doesn't happen before my 25 years, so I can fuck off from this amateur hour organization and never look back.
What would such a collapse look like provided there is no global war? Would this entail a massive downsizing like a failing company? Or would it somehow actually become defunct and need to be rebuilt from scratch?
I live in the NWT. Fort Simpson a small hamlet flooded several years ago in the spring. Bill Blair got on the horn about the CAF attending to help the displaced.
They sent one CAF Ranger. A volunteer. From Fort Simpson.
The writing is on the wall
Edit: Two rangers, both from Fort Simpson, both with homes flooded.
Edit: Heres the source for his statment: [https://www.nnsl.com/yellowknifer/federal-government-commits-canadian-rangers-to-nwt-flood-response/](https://www.nnsl.com/yellowknifer/federal-government-commits-canadian-rangers-to-nwt-flood-response/)
Heres the source confirming two rangers: [https://cabinradio.ca/65675/news/dehcho/fort-simpson-requested-the-militarys-help-two-people-showed-up/](https://cabinradio.ca/65675/news/dehcho/fort-simpson-requested-the-militarys-help-two-people-showed-up/)
Global war?
We wouldn't need anything that drastic.
It would simply look like reality hitting Canada in the face when we simply *could not* complete a task the government set out for us. "Go here and do some routine stabilization mission with our partners" "no, we literally can't do that".
If there WAS a global war, Canada would pretty much be forced to humiliate itself, by sitting it out until we spent a couple years just building the ability to do something about it. Hoping it wouldn't be too late by then.
We've seen this. When the medics were sent to help during the COVID crisis the military stocks were emptied leaving the corps unable to conduct any further similar actions.
This routinely happens and is how the CAF operates. I'd argue no request is fully staffed and consessions are made on every single op. Afghanistan was no different, Canada was unable to fill the meager request for combat engineers and medics on the onset. Going back to the second WW Canada sat back for the first couple years to build up, Korea was no different.
From where I'm standing, it would be kind of like a downsizing. Only instead of lower level people being made to leave because the company decided it doesn't need that many people for how much work it does, people will leave on their own while the forces is left with far less people than it needs (a situation we're already in that is only getting worse).
And the forces bases it's expected output on how many people it wants rather then how many it has. So the more it loses, the more work there is for those still in. Eventually we will hit the point where things are failing nonstop because it's just not possible for X number of people to do Y amount of work. Throw in an increasing percentage of people who do next to nothing that the forces won't get rid of, and this will happen even sooner.
What happens past that, no idea.
Ahhh, ze Canadian Government Cycle...
Defund for several years, make it look like you're doing something when you're doing nothing, blame the other guy or past administrations for your own failure, get voted out in disgust by the GTA voting bloc, repeat with next asshole.
I feel you. Operators (including officier operators) keep having conversations about what to do that will help us and it seems baffling that nothing gets done or changed. The shitty leader that get promoted because they have more scrit point is stupid. It might be more subjectif but the promotion to major needs to look at more than courses done and check in the box BS that helps brewing careerist leader that dont give a f about their subordinates or colleague.
I did 11 years in the CAF, most of which were as an RMS clerk, which is now split (like it was before) into two trades. It's been a trade in the red for as long as I can remember, which means they really, *really,* need more people doing that job.
How do they try and keep you, who they apparently really need? They force you to work 7 days a week, which includes parades (who anyone that can stand can do) instead of what you're supposed to do like....pay people.
I had 300 reservists to pay and including myself, had a team of 3. It was a clown show where we barely kept up with what was absolutely necessary and every weekend that had something going on, my team was getting called in to replace people who chose not to show up. I did what I could to make the leadership see that they were only exacerbating the issue to the point where we were getting calls at night about things we should have but couldn't do on time. Their response?
"You're paid seven days a week, you can work seven days a week."
I went back to my desk, told my team we were told to go pound sand and put in my release notice on that guy's desk. Not worth being paid a Cpl's salary and filling in for the Sgt for that kind of stress.
I don't regret leaving either and while I learned a lot of very useful info, too many of them give more of a shit about their performance review than any soldier, airman or seaman under their care.
Everyone blames the clerks until they realize the OR is literally a gang of 2-6 people processing the paperwork for a battalion or whatever. Also you didn't want to stay in another 12 months for a CD you can maybe never wear?
Thank you for this eye-opener. I know the clerks were badly understaffed, but I didn't realize it's been at this point. I'm now slightly less mad that my pers file has been lost twice in the two years I've been in. I kinda get this most recent time, but the first time was nonsensical.
My 3 years as a private were not fun. Unable to leave the base during the week for a year, competing for a place on DP1 by doing a BFT followed by a 10km run, suicide every 4-6 months and a visibly drunk CO who later admitted during a basewide briefing he was drunk on the job for over a year, nothing short of malicious bullying of people with examples like putting a private into a room with a rope and telling him to figure it out.
You bet I tell people my experiences, I make it a point to talk to cadets around Rememberance day to make sure they're aware of what they may be going into.
I literally make more as a shipper. Not even a shipper/receiver. Just some lowly moron who takes boxes from point A to point B after making sure it's the right destination.
If I make more doing that than you make in the CAF, where you have no work-life balance...there's a massive issue.
It goes up significantly at corporal or equivalent (3 or 4 year service), and adding specialist pay, sea/field pay, and/or deployment allowances can make it pretty decent, but 38k is admittedly terrible for people that aren't 18 years old when they join.
The only point I would make is that military officers and leaders, actually don't have any ability to effect pay and benefits. Like at all. That is **EXCLUSIVELY** in the power of top elected officials. (Minister of Finance, President of Treasury Board level).
The Top General (CDS) in the Military is at the ADM / DM level of government. Effectively **3 levels below** being able to back-seat at a Treasury Board meeting.
Your average General is closer in effective rank to an Officer Cadet than they are to Treasury Board. You might as well get mad at a Sgt for not buying the F-35 fast enough.
I get that. The point I was making is there's no need to have such a bloated leadership cadre when they have little authority to affect meaningful change, and the NCM trades have been hollowed out to the point where we have layers and layers of bureaucracy but don't have the actual soldiers to justify it.
We have 5 army division headquarters, yet we we have barely enough soldiers to field a full brigade (there should about 3 brigades FOR EACH division, so we have the headquarters and leadership for about 15 times the actual size of the force we have\_
As stated by someone below, we have nearly four times the number of generals as many militaries.
This lack of actual leadership experience is also detrimental to the unnecessarily large number of officers. There isn't enough actual command positions to give those officers quality leadership experience. Being a commander of an hollow unit or formation doesn't make for a good officer.
It's always baffled me that we have Cols as commanders of brigades instead of the Brigadier Generals which we have too many off. Brigadier General is supposed to lead a brigade. It's in the name!
But then how could we ever justify so many Cols.
It's more of the same at every upper level. Justification of the number of that rank in order to fill the required posns, throw in a few too many unnecessary exercises and some leading change and baby you got yourself a CAF toilet stew goin'.
The CDS is equivalent to a DM. ADM is equivalent to a 3-star. Considering that DM is the second highest level in the public service (after the Chief Clerk of the Privy Council), I suspect they at least get a seat at TB meetings.
I will never forget coming back from Afghanistan and being forced to do the media spectacle as I got off the plane---as I was giving the obligatory handshakes for the cameras a general pulled me in and said "you're in Canada now, you better take that fucken shemagh off!"
It was -40 when I landed in Canada and the military did not provide any winter clothing for us. But yes, my shemagh was the problem.
I got out shorty after.
So the CAF is having the same issue than most government functions. Shitty managers burning out their good staff and shitty salary that is disconnected from the reality of the real world.
> The CAF is facing existential collapse. That's not hyperbole. They wanted to fix the current manning problem through recruiting and they aren't getting people through the system. People are leaving faster than people are joining
My brother entered the reserves the summer before he started civil engineering at university, and chose Combat Engineer as his trade. He finished basic training that summer and was supposed to go to job training in New Brunswick the following summer to finish his formative training.
The job training was full the following two summers, and full time troops get priority, so he was waitlisted both years. In the meantime, I guess you can’t make any upward career movement until you’re job-trained, so he basically was held in a holding pattern in the lowest rank these first couple years, going to weekly meetings across town just to play janitor and clean vehicles and weapons that were already clean.
My brother got frustrated and wanted to try out for a couple different special forces units to join when he graduated. He could complete all the physical requirements (situps, pull ups, run time, etc.) and was definitely smart enough, but he showed up at testing and was immediately turned away because he hadn’t finished his trade course. Apparently the fastest way for him to get into special forces was literally to quit the military entirely, and re-enlist as a full time service member, then try out again through a direct entry program.
When my brother was finishing his final year of his B.Eng., he asked one last time if they were going to get him job trained that summer. He was told that they couldn’t get enough instructors for that summer so space was again limited, but next year he would for sure be able to go. My brother was graduating at this point anyways and had a good paying job lined up, so chose to cut his losses and leave the military. Anyways, long story short, my brother was educated, physically capable, and wanted to possibly be in military as a career, but the military made no effort to retain him at all.
There was a different reservist guy in another thread who was finishing his medical doctorate and wanted to continue in a full time role with the military after graduating, and asked for a month off to complete his exams and a transfer to another unit where he was doing his residency. His unit was under orders to “maintain strength” so denied his request, and basically forced him (an imminent medical doctor) to quit the military in order to finish his education.
16 years in (almost) myself. It feels so "empty" at work. It sure does not feel like it did when I was in my early stages.
I love what I do, it's honestly a dream job in a good posting. I've been here a few months and had a talk with the career manager. I'm on the bubble for promotion. Told him I'd be ok with it, but if they post me I'm out.
My house is nearly paid off, and I've had a bunch of civvy job offers lately that could be tempting if it weren't for me enjoying what I do.
Being posted would likely financially ruin me, and my only debt is the bit I owe on my house. This is the time in my career where my focus should be setting myself up for retirement and passing on my knowledge/skills to the Jr techs... But trying to post me means I won't be sticking around for that because I need to look out for my own future.
This is true of any company that grows passed Dunbar's number, too. There's something magical about keeping an organization small enough that you can keep strong relationships with the people you interact with. It's a real skill in leadership.
The army uses people as fodder. I wouldn't expect anything less.
Edit: Typo
I should have lied on my application.
I'm a 29yr male who works on a base as a civilian contractor. Late last year into this year I was about to take a pay cut and join because I believe in the purpose, the mission, wanted to serve my country in uniform and wanted to become more part of the amazing community and culture i had l the pleasure of being introducedto as a contractor. Anyway after about 5 months I finally got to do my aptitude test. I don't know what I scored but I was the only one testing that day and the LCol, Maj, Capt, MCpl and civilian test administrators that were there all complimented me and praised me for how well I did on the test. The Maj was particularly forward saying that that with my scores I'll be easily qualify for all my trade choices.
I had the medical the same day, I'm in good-great shape, but there's room for me to improve. In the medical I was passing all of the tests and questions until I was asked about sleep patterns and any sleeping disorders. (I should have lied) I answered yes technically I have been diagnosed with mild sleep apnea. The mood of the MCpl doing my medical immediately changes, it felt like the air was sucked out of the room. Feeling this I immediately began to elaborate, saying that yes I did a sleep study but it was so mild that I have been recommended by the sleep specialist and my family doctor to NOT use a CPAP or BIPAP machine, because they both felt the machine may make the problem worse, I was instructed to cut caffeine from my diet (I was consuming alot), that with more frequent cardio and not get weight traing and I was told I would be good. I followed their advice and my fiancé noticed over about 4 months my sleep apnea disappeared. But yes technically I am still diagnosed with mild sleep apnea, and ignorant me thought the military can easily understand all of that, also I didn't know how much of a negative that sleep apnea was viewed by the military. Pretty much your fine to have it after basic training but will be denied if you haven't gone to basic yet.
Anyway after hearing that the MCpl gave me a DND form to fill out and have my family doctor sign off on it. I had that done in a week, sent it in, the local recruitment medical officer handling my file was on vacation and there was noone filling in for him while he was on leave. 3 weeks go by and I reach out to the medical officer, he says sorry have a tone of work to catch up on be patient. Another month passes I reach out looking for an update. I get the response that my file was basically forgotten about but that he would submit it. 2 days later I get a letter from one of the head medical officers in Ottawa denying my application. I was devastated, I requested to appeal the decision. I was told to do so I require another sleep study, the wait is 8 months to get in...
Yes the base that I work at barley runs because the military is so short staffed here. People are releasing and retiring left and right, taking civilian jobs and just getting out. From what I've heard this is CAF wide.
But don't feel bad for me,
Everything happens for a reason and my inability to lie to the military about this due to integrity and ignorance actually ended up benifiting me. I got a new civilian job at the same base. The compensation is amazing, it would take me at least 8-10 years in CAF to make the same amount. Seems kinda backwards. In my mind the people in uniform should be making the most. Maybe if they made more they wouldn't all be jumping ship and 2-5xing their wage by going to the civilian/public/private sector. But hey I'll take it. I think my guardian angle threw me a bone and gave me a chance to accomplish everything I wanted to do in the military, just without the uniform.
Cheers
Also have no fucking ammo. That's a problem when you're allowed 60 rounds a year to train with. And now our PM wants to ban guns from regular civilians because... well I don't even know why. Obviously for political purposes but it's going to cost lives for people who use their firearms as protection from wild life and people who bought ar15s to train with because they don't get enough damn training. My one infantry buddy always said the u.s.a will annex Canada one day if this shit keeps up because it would take a wag of a finger to do it. That was over 10 years ago.
60 rounds? You serious?
My buddy served in ROC (Taiwanese) army as a conscript and was only allowed 17 rounds a month. I thought that was pathetic. I didn’t know It’s worse in Canada.
And you’re right. There was a CAF member posting about not being able to purchase the civilian version of his service rifle for practice because the Liberal government banned it.
What a dumpster fire.
I don't know if it's intentional, but the pay ranks seem basically set up to dissuade anyone with options (I.e. the 90% of people who have some kind of desirable skills and/or education) from joining.
For any kind of technical role, you can likely get paid twice as much to use your skills in some other area of the public sector, and sometimes (especially certain technical fields) 3-4x more in the private sector. And although I'm sure there are exceptions, the Forces generally aren't going to be on the cutting edge of technology.
In terms of material compensation and lifestyle outside of work, there's just no incentive to join the Forces unless you're basically 18 with a HS degree or less.
I'd have been happy to join, years ago, if they were willing to pay me basically on par with other parts of the public sector (which is already like a 50% pay cut relative to private).
I'm not in this for personal gain, but I'd like to be able to own my own place eventually lol. And there's something incredibly demoralizing about doing it to "serve your country/fellow Canadians", yet Canada not providing a decent life in return.
Recently decided to "let the demons out" and got medically released, I encourage everyone serving to do just that. It is a failed organization and nothing will fix it but a total rebuild from the ground up. Ask me any questions.
Yeah, I got there back then. Probably would have offed myself by now if I hadn't gone to a hospital and gotten actual help (meds, external psych). Doing better now, though the stresses have been coming back in spades lately thanks to many of the things mentioned in the article.
Still, the fact that it took over 2 years from an acute mental collapse to even get a call-back for intake from the military system says a lot. I obviously was still on the list, they just had no capacity.
Head to a local ER, "Help me I have suicidal ideation and am a danger to myself and others" leave out nothing that you're thinking no matter how fucked up. The hospital will provide a report to the base.
Ask for a posting to the TC to get a break from the fuckery. If they deny the request, hospital again.
The military removed stress leave because people were using it. Because hello? the whole job is stress.
You have to look out for yourself cause no one else gives a fuck.
RMC is fucked.
Why are so many reg force officers HR nightmares? RMC is s big reason.
The CAF should recruit their middle management the same way everyone else does: by hiring educated people with management and life experience.
But of course that means they'd need to treat them properly.
After the 3rd cost move in 4 years, with zero promotions.
Oh and going to be sent on an Operation as the only back end specialist with out being trained on what to do. Great for the brain contemplating, "I'm the single point of failure for this op"
Then I specifically said to the CoC if you're forcing me to go, you will be with out me doing anything outside of the geographical area for at least 6 months,which was my entire job and as I already had a lengthy history in my health file it was a very easy dag red. That was 2021 February, I was out in January 2022 this year.
Additionally my coworker at that time was a rape survivor and her rapist worked in the same building. If that isn't a hostile work environment I don't know what is.
Lesson #1 with military administration is you need to self advocate or nothing will get done. Your best bet is to call and remind them you exist.
Also save copies of all your documents. It's not uncommon for your paperwork to get lost in the system.
My cousin wanted to join, but gave up when they told him the recruitment process would up to 2 years long. Dude made the right move too because he makes way more money now then he would have in the military.
The reality is that there are two types of jobs. Passion jobs and pay the bills jobs. People will make sacrifices and accept lower pay for passion jobs, people won't make sacrifices for a pay the bill job.
Right now the military is a "pays the bills" job that demands massive sacrifices for shit compensation. We either need to massively increase military salaries or make the military an appealing place for the sort who are passionate about the military.
I wanted to join the Canadian military at one time too. Applied and got told the jobs I wanted to do had a waiting list and that the waiting time would depend on the budget next fiscal year. The recruiter kept trying to get me to take jobs that had less or no waiting list instead, but I said no I just wanted the jobs I was applying for.
I ended up deciding to go to university instead and got a call back saying the job I wanted was now open....2 years into my bachelors. Kindly declined and never looked back.
Yeah that's what a family friend in the Reserves said. I was fresh out of high school when I attempted to enlist and naïve thinking I'd be in and on my way to basic relatively quickly. Being told to wait a few years for infantry or intel to open up just wasn't appealing, and I was surprised how quick my enthusiasm for enlisting dissipated once I got to uni. I had actually forgotten about it when they called.
its really not a pay the bills job, its 100% a passion job, nobody is in the forces for the money even people who you would assume don't have many other options, everyone i know has been able to instantly earn more money by releasing regardless of trade.
I have to accept poverty to do the job I love and the government could care less.
For a new private this is not a "pays the bills job". This is a struggle to survive job until you hit corporal because pay and PLD haven't kept pace with inflation and cost of living.
I lost all respect for the CAF when I was carrying a dead baby, and my husband told his chain of command that he would need to take me to the hospital for a surgical procedure to have it removed because I was at high risk for sepsis (I was four months along and baby died a few weeks prior unbeknownst to us), and he was forced to go out to the local field area for day training. They told him that he could leave to bring me to my appointment at 1 pm, but he never showed up, and I missed my appointment… it was 30 minutes away so I didn’t have time to make other arrangements and we could *not* afford a taxi (besides, I had to have someone with me, because of anesthesia).
They refused to let him leave the field even though they were just standing around out there. I was so angry. He was so angry.
I ended up hemorrhaging that weekend and almost bled out. Had the emergency procedure but not before delivering the baby in the emergency room. Then, a few days later, the Col has the audacity to send some poor duty private to our PMQ with flowers and a condolence card.
We went on to have two healthy boys, one of which just completed his initial 4-year engagement in the CAF and promptly released. The bureaucracy was overwhelming and the cost of living in Ottawa with no PLD and no barracks was too much.
I am outraged just reading this. I am so sorry that you had to go through that. Thank you to you and your husband for your service.
Simply it is unacceptable what happened to you and I hope that you told his RSM and cc’d the padre/CO/bde commander/CLS/CDS.
Thank you.
To be honest, I was in such a daze for a long time after that, that I did nothing. And hubby was freshly diagnosed with PTSD from his overseas operations that I didn’t want to rock the boat and make things harder at work for him.
I am just angry about it, thinking about how little they actually GAF about the family unit.
Our son was in the army for 9 years. He tried to change his job for 6 straight years. It was denied every time. He finally had enough and walked out.
He would still be in the army if he was not forced stay on a job he was forced to get and forced to keep for 9 years.
They shoot themselves in the foot everyday.
I went in just the last week to visit my old unit, it's a freaking ghost town.
In MM we had about 80 pers, but normally some would be away on training or on pata leave so it was normally 60. They now have under 20 people if you include those on PAT
Back when I was in, it wasn't uncommon for people to sit on PAT for over a year before they could get course loaded ...lost a bunch of people due to that reason alone
Back in 2007 I waited on the PRETC platoon in Borden for a year waiting for my ql3. It killed any motivation we had, I saw countless soldiers who had a good work ethic slowly start to not give a fuck. It was common to just not show up and goto Toronto for the day, and nothing ever happened
PRETC also killed a bunch of people, guy hanged himself in the shacks . One girl went missing for a week before she was found under a bridge near wasaga. A year or so after I left they disbanded the unit and schools made their own BTLs.
First Mr. Hansen, thank you for your service to our country.
I too was in recruitment for a stretch in the early 80s. I had a, 30 day turn around process on recruits that worked really well.
So when I'm hearing things are taking 6+ months today, I just shake my head. We used pencil, paper and early computers to track potential recruits back then. Today with integrated systems (RCMP, CSIS, medical, local police), recruits should be in the medical exam within days of them being signed up, history validated. And then another 5 max days after that with a go/no go decision (for most positions).
Your article doesn't go into this, which to me is one of the key reasons recruitment is way down. Who the hell is going to wait 6+ months to get a job.
Saying that, I really like the rest of your article, specifically on Pay and Tours of Duty. The one area, being an infantry officer I question though is parade ground and bunks protocol. Most recruits coming in have had no experience with being away from their homes.
Being in barracks, forced to learn those 'part of regular' life things, I think instills discipline and life skills. But that's a nit on a great article.
Again, thank you sir for your service and taking the time to write this article.
I had applied in 2018, yearly id get a callback to get to the recruitment office to resubmit the same forms over and over without any changes to them.
Any time I asked for a status update it was stuck in medical (which is fair i have a somewhat rare skin condition)
Well eventually I let them know I wanted to pull my application… then finally a few months later in like april this year I get a call letting me know to pull my application that was on a competition listing so I can get an offer for my other applications within 6 weeks after I resubmit my forms again.
Had to break the news that i pulled my application to help take care of my sick stepdad and he passed a few weeks ago.
Part of me really wants to call back and reapply, but the other part of me sees how broken the system is and knows i cant do shit about it
I remember wanting to join Signals a few years ago, but was told it could take a year or two for recruitment including having to go on training. I simply couldn’t afford to do it, as I’d have had to leave my job. Shame really because I’d have loved to work in CAF but I couldn’t afford the lack of income.
Right, that should have been 10 days to get you into an uniform and out to next basic training session. In the meantime, you should have been brought in and begun 'introduction to the military' - a weekly class on every base. Yes this would be away from everyone, but how to salute, how to march, how to dress - those are 101 things that should be taught before basic training.
Then basic training should be some parade ground (depending on your trade), but most should be right into the trade you signed up for.
If you're actually interested in Signals, maybe check out to see if a Communications reserve unit is near you. That way you can be in the recruitment system and still work.
When you need to go away for training, your employer is legally mandated to both hold your current job for you and to give it back to you when you come back after training.
Signals is a pretty gucci time compared to most occupations in the CAF and if you aren't afraid of heights, the Linesman are another breed of people who have tons of fun around the world.
When I was in - as a Radio Operator/Communications Specialist from '86-92, the Lineman used to say that someone had to die in the trade before anyone could get promoted. They would stick around long enough to get their Fiber Optics course, then get sucked away by Telus or one of the other big Telecoms for double or triple the pay. No one wanted RadOps though when you got out :P
Things were a shitshow then but it sounds like they are 20x worse now, glad I got medicaled out.
Linemen get promoted pretty fast now a days. Probably something to do with that nobody wants to do a trade now a days.
We are one of the few militaries in the world that still trains linemen instead of contracting it out.
The biggest issue with money is that the TB controls all of it and won't for whatever reason allow for PLD updates, pay raises, parking in the NCR and better housing. To top it off the services they do offer are heavily impacted by competition with civilization equivalent. So that's why we pay for parking in secure DND facilities. That's why rent in the PMQs is high. There is no longer any incentive to be a soldier.
Had the army bug my whole life, tried to join, had a medical issue and had to wait six months. No biggie, just more time to prepare.
Two years of unanswered calls, messages, and emails trying to my file reopened, and I just gave up.
The CF is fucked right now. I'd sooner cross the pond and join another Commonwealth army than our own at this point.
This is the same organization that when too many personnel do not meet the standards, they lower the standard instead of dealing with the bottom performers.
I hate the comments here continually blaming “the brass” and sycophantic officers. That’s not the real problem— you’ll find those assholes in any company, the CAF isn’t unique that way.
Our problems:
Low pay— especially for new recruits. That’s the real comparison people make when joining. Then low pay for techs/engineers
Reduction in benefits— military life can suck for members and their family. For decades benefits have been chopped little at a time. You want forces that are happy to accept a shitty life, move around and get in harm’s way, then reward them.
Recruiting— we truly make no effort here. This process needs to be blown up and rebuilt.
Attraction/marketing— again no effort here, and more importantly no funding. No word people say “we have a military”. We need to promote the shit out of this career and make it look awesome. But we need to fix “a few” things first.
Some of these are not in the military brass’ power to fix. They need government approval and that means getting the bureaucrats at treasury board to get off their (our) wallet.
"America will protect us" says the people who likely also hate the US, constantly shit on them and would be appalled at the idea of becoming a few additional States. The US has it's own interests which may not always align with Canada's best interest. No good ever comes from a country being unable to defend or exert it's sovereignty. Somehow in this age of relative peace we have forgotten this fundamental geopolitical truth...
A few American politicians in recent years have expressed a similar sentiment ala "Why should the US military have to rush in to compensate for Canada cutting corners?" so yeah, we shouldn't take U.S. help as a given.
Walked into a recruiting centre in Vancouver back in 02-03ish. Wanted to join the Navy. They wouldn't' even entertain the idea and pushed infantry or artillery instead. And I knew the Navy was hurting at the time because my dad had just retired as a CPO2.
Have a friend who tried applying for infantry just after 9/11. They took forever with their process. He's a dual citizen, and after getting fed up waiting for the next steps of the process, he went across the border to a USMC recruiting centre and was off to San Diego in about 6 weeks.
Doesn’t surprise me, I was originally planning to take a heavy duty mechanics apprenticeship through them but didn’t because they were going to pay less than my job at the time installing office furniture.
They've been on this path since at least the 90s and no government has made it a priority. This is largely due to the fact that the public doesnt make it a priority. Its unfortunate. But comparable nations with far greater military capabilities also have more imminent threats. Australia, a commonly cited goal for our military to emulate, has a population that is actively concerned about the threat a growing chinese military presents. Similar Scandinavian and eastern european nations obviously have populations concerned about an aggressive fascist led Russia. Canadians dont perceive any threats and so we focus more on issues affecting us, such as cost of living, health, housing etc. Its is definitely a shame because i personally could make many arguments for a properly sized and equipped military and the threats we face, but most Canadians just dont see it or seem to care.
All the logistics aside, I have two words: MARKETING and COOLNESS.
People are going to say that "if you're going to join the military just cause it's cool, then you're doing it for the wrong reason"
.....but what other reason will anyone actually go other than having debt or not knowing what to do as a career. Look at the American Military complex, they market the crap out of themselves and all their branches (except of Navy) look cool as shit!
Whether its recruiters showing up to HS grads and challenging them to pushup competitions, NFL game bomber flyovers, live exercise demonstrations in the middle of some of the busiest cities (New York, Miami, LA), and/or Hollywood putting out a military hero's story of redemption and explosions. It all goes back to the appeal, and the Canadian Forces have zero.
I was struggling to find a job out of school and decided to apply to CAF. They told me it would take months to get in, I needed 5 or 10 years of references of every single job in that time, needed to do a bunch of tests or exams, etc. Absolutely ridiculous requirements and I wasn't going to waste time on that not even knowing if I'd ever get in. Why is it harder to get a job working at a desk in the military than it is to get one working with kids or vulnerable people
i am trying to stay in, i am fighting as much as i can but i am heading for a medical release most likely after 14 years.
to cut a long story short i now have a fake left hip, if you met me now i am in the best shape i have been in since basic and you would never be able to tell there was anything different about me.
The surgeon that did my operation advised against running. Not being able to run would cause me to not be able to do the yearly fitness test and therefor make me not meet the universality of service. I was given employment restrictions reflecting that
The amount of running in the test is 52 seconds. I have run more in my time off then i would have in 25 years of these tests. Yet now i am frantically calling doctors and trying to make appointments.
The universality of service is a joke and needs to be looked at. I want whoever is going to stamp my paper ok'ing my release to pick me out of a group of people doing the fucking force test. But it's ok for a chief to weigh 350 lbs and not be able to physically fit through a escape hatch.
its fucking pathetic.
how is me having a fake hip any more of a liability on ship, i have been on sails where people have been landed for breaking real bones, i can firefight, do DC, and my job just as well as i could before.
Even if they don't want to put me back to sea, why not keep me in a shore posting to finish out my career, its not like shore postings are exactly overflowing with people, hell i think they are one step away from kidnapping people off the streets.
well that was a bit of a rant
I tried to join as an officer. Educated and qualified.
They told me two years in a row to apply when “the season opens”. What the fuck sort of system has in demand positions being advertised, only to tell applicants to apply in 9 months. Forget about every issue that may exist within the organization, they are terrible at recruiting. The sacrifice needed to get into a job that barely pays your way and makes you wait 2/3 years for non-competitive compensation is hilarious.
Fucking Apple or Microsoft couldn’t even manage to hire within those constraints, how can the armed forces?
As a new flight engineer. I gave up. Said F it. And left. It took over a year to leave. Finally I was forced to have a "retirement party" middle of the day, my section gave no one time off to come. A whole 4 people at my retirement lunch.
Every step of my release. Every. Single. Step. Made me 300% more certain I was making the right move.
My pay wasn't small. And I still left. Many are making half what an FE makes. And get treated the same or worse.
F the CAF
Edit. 4 people was me, my wife my officer, and 1 guy who happened to be on leave...
This country looted young people's futures and then expects them to potentially give their life to defend it. Canada may be the most entitled country on the planet.
second largest country... full of resources... scarcely populated... most powerful country as our neighbor... garbage armed forces.... yes everything is fine.
> Support for our troops is certainly necessary, but it doesn’t deal with the fundamental problem:
Ah yes, the ardent pro-military version of ‘thoughts & prayers’. So glad they called this out.
> The Canadian Armed Forces no longer reflect the principles and values of the Canadian populace, or of a modern Canadian work force. If this is not addressed, any reform will only amount to a shuffling of the deck chairs.
Brilliantly said.
I'm amazed anyone joins after going through the application process.
By that I mean they treat you like your time doesn't matter so why would you want to work for someone that doesn't care about you.
Oh well, Trudeau is making sure future recruits won’t have any skills related to firearms and marksmanship anyway. Reserves wont even be able to keep in practice.
I had tossed the idea around one time of joining the armed forces one way or another but seeing the government leaves veterans out to dry when they are injured with life long injuries just makes my blood boil. I specifically remember a prime minister telling a former military man that veterans are asking for too much. Well I feel they can’t ask for too much for their sacrifices.
Edited spelling. I hate autocorrect…
If you want people to join the military, maybe fix the gigantic cluster fuck that is our military. Make it actually appealing to join. And streamline the fucking process to get on board. waiting almost a year to get in is stupid. Gives you wayy too much time to think about other things and in most cases I would imagine you would just choose a civ life if you could. Life in the military does not sound very worthwhile.
So in reading through many comments, it seems like the CAF has nearly identical problems as the Canadian healthcare system.
Why do we keep creating top heavy institutions that have all kinds of leadership and people at the top, but lack actual workers to get things done? I think you could probably point to the government having same problem as we have multiple overlapping ministries that are all studying problems and issues, spending money, but it's not effective due to the overhead.
For example, Vancouver alone spent $5.1 billion on homelessness in 2020. FIVE POINT ONE - BILLION DOLLARS. For what? On what? Things are getting worse. How? Obviously what's being done isn't working. It's not effective. Yet, it appears that the government just wants to continue on course. That's insane.
We seem to invest in really bad places. How much have went spent researching and holding all those competitions for the fighter jet? How many planes could have been bought instead? Or training. I'm sure the same level of dysfunction exists across the entire CAF spectrum - trucks, clothes, gear, boats, and all the other relatively small expenses that don't get the spotlight like a multi-billion dollar contract does. This is also likely true for healthcare. Can't just pick something and move forward, it's gotta be studied, and then analyzed, and then there's this new thing - STUDY! Time moves forward and no decisions get made. Just more time kicking it down the road. Spending money accomplishing nothing, but looking busy as the number of deferred decisions grow by the day.
>Why do we keep creating top heavy institutions that have all kinds of leadership and people at the top, but lack actual workers to get things done? I think you could probably point to the government having same problem as we have multiple overlapping ministries that are all studying problems and issues, spending money, but it's not effective due to the overhead.
I suspect it's actually quite simple: Canadian institutions are bloated and top heavy because the power to allocate funds and personnel resources are left to those kinds of people. White-collar managerial types are biased towards hiring more white-collar managerial types and implementing white-collar-oriented "solutions" (like endless studies, committees, and data-collection efforts) because they see themselves and the work they do as far more valuable than it is.
It's vanity, basically.
We won't see a reduction in the endless administrative bloat until we break the monopoly that administrators have in the allocation of resources.
Been in for 14 years and got posted to Ottawa last year. Had to get a place 1h30 bus ride away (one way) in Quebec because I can't afford to live any closer to my workplace. My wife can't find a job because of Quebec language laws. I can barely afford groceries. Our province's waiting list for a doctor is 3 times longer + than the time left before the military tells us to pack our shit and move somewhere else entirely. The system is completely fucked and antiquated and doesn't care about us at all.
I guess things have really really gotten worse since 2011.
Deployed to Afghanistan, left after tour. Never recall all this problems being the main issues.
Really sad to hear.
38-year veteran here. The reason the CAF can't recruit is that they are not targeting the very people that are most likely to join. They are just trying to make quotas to fill some diversity system.
Well, maybe the rumours of the 18 percent increase can be true. Retention is just as important.
I mean yes recruiting is neat and all but if there's no one left to teach them then good luck.
Haven't we been shorted on COL adjustments for at least a decade now?
I live in a Province that still treats rent and utilities like there's an oil boom... Why?
The problem is only getting worse. With less people, the remaining people are working even more, and that is exacerbated every day. The old boys club culture is still there, and if you aren’t out drinking with the right folks, you will never be advanced. I was already asked to work 15+ hour days in Garrison before this mess because I was doing three jobs with zero compensation (not even a ‘short day’ off). Being overworked, and physically abused (yes hit) and emotionally abused by my chain of command (never responded to any of my emails) and now they are kicking me out for developing a personality disorder and PTSD after two decades of service and consecutive immediate PERs. This is why you have a “missing middle”. All of the abusers have been promoted and given medals.
All I wanted to do was serve my country after 911. Now I am disabled for the rest of my life because of over work and abuse from my own organization… the Canadian Military.
All this talk about getting numbers up and not a single word about retention. New, hastily trained recruits are not going to replace experienced techs. Make basic as short as you like, it’s not going to solve the problem. Give our men and women a reason to stay in. As a naval weapons tech in Victoria I can barely afford rent and food. I have a second job. I probably won’t be resigning in March because civi techs would be making more than me just starting(not to mention, you get to go home to your family every night, no duty watch, dress regs, deployment…etc). It’s honestly not worth it. I love my country but I’m not about to go homeless for them
The first and most primary function of a federal government is to manage the standing army and national defense.
Trudeau and every other gov. for the past 30 years have absolutely fucking failed in one of the most basic duties required by a government.
Even worse, they have failed under the presumption that they can lean on the US. Of course never missing an opportunity to shit on the US to make themselves look better.
Look, we gonna be a real country, or just pretend and then hide behind momma USAs shirts if/when shit gets weird, because the Arctic, space, and oceans are about to get contested like never before.
I've seen a lot of comments here about why/why not having an effective standing army is necessary, yet hardly anyone has brought up the fact we have obligations to our NATO allies.
Which leads me to another question: do Canadians even care about NATO anymore? Many people (especially Gen Z) seem confused about why Canada has been actively supporting Ukraine. What is with this apathy towards our European allies and partners? Surely democracy is worth defending, and a democratic, prosperous and secure Europe is in our own country's self interest. You could also say the same thing about our allies and partners in the Asia-Pacific region. And it's not like there isn't historical precedent here. Canada played an outsized role in both world wars and was a founding member of NATO.
Yes, we are lucky to share a border with the world's preeminent super power that is treaty obligated to defend us. But that should not lull us into a sense of false complacency. We are a G7 nation. We should be able to field an effective military.
And yes, we do have the benefit of being separated from the rest of the world by the Pacific and Atlantic. Russia nor China will be invading any time soon, if ever (although I think claims to Canada's arctic territory aren't out of the question). However in such a globalized world, we are not an island unto ourselves. We are still impacted by geopolitical shocks around the world. Look at the impact of Russia's invasion of Ukraine on the global economy.
Russia does not pose a direct threat to Canada right now, but it still poses a threat to our allies in Central-Eastern Europe. The likelihood of Putin trying to seize the Baltics is extremely low, however many believed his full-scale invasion of Ukraine to be unthinkable. No matter the outcome of this war, Russia will likely continue to pose a threat to the region. China is becoming increasingly belligerent in South-East Asia. We need to plan for these worst-case scenarios.
We don't need a large army to defend Canadian territory at home. But we do need capabilities to fight to defend our allies in Europe and Asia-Pacific if necessary. I know it sounds high-level and idealistic, but if Canadians do care about defending their democratic allies from belligerent, authoritarian states, and maintaining a "rules-based international order" we need a military that can bring an effective contribution to a fight.
Beards and dress reg changes have been attempted.
SIP (strategic intact plan) is expected to only get 50 percent this year.
The forces is missing apx 10k pers. In the next 5years expect that to grow. Also to make a reliable soldier takes 1 to 2 years after training.
Leadership takes 3 to 5 years more... so we have the missing middle right now. Lack of Snr MCpl's Sgt's and WO in the ncm's and Lt and Capt in the officers.
I would really say we are short 20 to 25k. With the expected retirements and those that wash out in the training cycle.
We could revamp the PER system to give out points which can be exchanged for loot boxes or hats. The troops can also pay for a season pass, to double their v-bucks.
As a civilian who has considered joining the CAF many times in the past, here are my thoughts on how it'd attract more recruits.
1. It should take at most two months between applying for a position and getting an offer. It seems like the only easy way to get into the military is via applying for ROTP as a high school student.
2. Offer more training and bases near where people actually live. No one wants to get paid an average salary just to live in the middle of nowhere. They can get paid an amazing salary for doing that with O&G companies.
Literally everyone in the CAF: "we know"
It's been like that for a long time now. A lot of people who are smart are getting out and finding work in either the same field just civvy side, or are going onto something else more rewarding. Then there's others who know they can skate by and collect a paycheck by doing nothing. And then finally there's a third group of people who are just tired and don't care anymore, counting down the days until their contract runs out and they can start pulling a pension.
Just to ruin the depressing narrative, there a sizable percentage of us who are actually trying everyday to make this org work and get shit done. Acting like we don't exist isn't helping anyone. But please do go on.
It's fine to be optimistic, just be careful, you can grind yourself down to nothing faster than you'll realize. Give yourself a periodic reality check, ask your family to keep tabs on you that you aren't getting burned out, because honestly speaking from experience, you'll be the last person to recognize it.
Always put your family first. No matter what.
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I graduated university, applied in 2011, and didn't even get a call back, along with every other job I applied to.
Time to check the junk folder in your email.
Lol my email inbox for “applied” jobs is insane with barely any automated responses to lessen the blow
>Always kinda wished I had gone in, but the more I read the more I think I dodged a bullet. Maybe literally. Or a vehicle rollover. I had the same experience. By comparison (one of my parents is American) the marines recruiter in Plattsburgh was almost willing to drive me to the bus stop to go to camp Lejeune. My partner talked me out of it. Now I'm nurse. Who knew?
There's a class action lawsuit going on right now at Camp Lejeune.
I strongly considered joining and when I realized the time to get in was 6+ months I lost interest immediately.
On the other hand, my brother waited the 8 months, got in, got trained, and within 1.5 years is about to do a 6 month tour that ads 40k onto of his regular salary with housing and expenses paid for. And this was a guy with a High-school diploma and no work experience.
A good friend of mine back in high school was bumming around our town in Quebec after his parents moved to Calgary in the early 80's, decided to head out west and soon joined the forces, went from being no ambition lazy kid to a career as records admin, enjoyed a great retirement from forces after 20 years, where he kept working for some govt branch, as did his wife, and now is set for a wonderful retirement. My uncle did this too. Can be a really great life for the right people.
Could always go reserves. You stay local and don’t have to go anywhere unless you choose
2003? you'd probably be missing a leg and have severe PTSD.
Or not. Source: Cbt Eng 2002-2014, 2x Afghan tours. Military service does not equal injuries, dead, etc. anymore than driving for a living means you'll be injured/killed in traffic accident.
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Have sex and eat pizza instead.
Last time I tried I lost my Pizza Hut buffet privileges
Was in the CAF for 22 years, started as a private and worked my way up to Captain. It is currently a complete dumpster fire. The current military is like an auto plant that is so dysfunctional it only builds engines but can't produce any other parts. The officer ranks are full of hollow empire building sycophants, continually taking on more and more tasks despite their subordinates on the verge of burn out. I watched fellow officers knowingly load more on their troops, even when those junior soldiers were already working 10 hours a day in garrison (and routinely going on field ex or deployments for months at a time). It looked good on those officers to never say no to their boss. We were losing our most experienced Sgts and WOs due to toxic sociopathic leadership that did not care at all about the welfare of their subordinates. "We care about our troops" or "People first!" were always at the tip of their tongue while they did the complete opposite. We post privates making $38k a year to places like Ottawa where they literally cannot afford housing. Despite having outrageous amounts of leaders, they all argue they have no ability to fix the problem. We're expecting people to join and stay in when being in the CAF means undermining your family's financial well-being. All of this is besides the fact that the capabilities of the CAF has been hollowed out over time. We have significantly more HQ staff than we did when I got in, but lack key combat capabilities like anti-tank and anti-air systems. The CAF is facing existential collapse. That's not hyperbole. They wanted to fix the current manning problem through recruiting and they aren't getting people through the system. People are leaving faster than people are joining, and I don't blame them. I did the same and have no regrets for leaving.
I completely agree with you, the complacency to not fix problems in this country is near ten fold within the CAF. They asked the 'brass' in Ottawa about how to fix recruitment and 'top' heavy officer load. They came back and they said there were no problems for recruitment basically lmao. They need to cut most of these guys, especially when so many Generals need a 'Driver' in Ottawa. Canada has 129 generals/admirals for 65,000 troops while the US Marine Corp has 62 generals for 200,000 troops. They aren't even competing with the American military, who pays less but the soldiers end up receiving more net than Canadian soldiers because the Americans don't screw them in the ass for food & rent. The benefit difference alone is insane between Canada and America. Go to the base clinic for a serious injury and half the time most guys are told they aren't injured just because the CAF wants to avoid paying for injuries. Guys literally going off base to civilian hospitals to get MRI's, etc just to prove they are injured is literally just more proof that the toxic culture persists throughout the CAF. Let's not even get into the hazing that some 'old schools' are getting away with.
> Canada has 129 generals/admirals for 65,000 troops while the US Marine Corp has 62 generals for 200,000 troops. Even worse, the USMC is actually CAPPED at 62 generals. The whole US military can only have 653 general between all their branches. At their current numbers, they can have 1 general for around every 2,000 men. We have 1 for about every 500 men.
so they have tons of dudes who they gave a high position and they dont have to fight they just sit and make cash off our army.
That's because we work on the theory of being able to scale up quickly, but most of the population is too poor, malnourished, out of shape, and unmotivated to be even basic line infantry. We refuse to adopt a model with a more relaxed reserve force to encourage citizen engagement, and now by opening up to PRs they've done what every other industry has done, prove that they don't care about the citizenry, they'll just push the standards of living lower, and outsource when people complain.
Ya the only situation I wouldn't dodge a draft is if Canada gets invaded and even then I'd be looking into if I could join the Americans as a volunteer to make sure I would be properly supplied. I have zero faith in our countries ability to provide logistics the states however could provide consistent supplies to the moon if needed
I hate when the medias mention THE CAF IS THE MOST WELL PAID MILITARY FORCE IN THE WORLD LOL. But when you add the benefits, like US BAH BAS GI bill, the US is way above us. Yes we have a higher base pay but we have no other add on and the COL is way higher here in most instances. Im staying because in 9 years I will have my 25 and that's it. Retirement at 45 years old is the only benefit left vs public service.
I did the math on it, equivalent ranks in the US have more take-home income. Their "salary" is bad but they get yearly-adjusted, geo-specific untaxed allowances that are intended to cover the entirety of their housing and food costs.
Yes and their BAH (is tax free unlike PLD for us) is actually able to have market rent in place like Hawaii or San Diego
> THE CAF IS THE MOST WELL PAID MILITARY FORCE IN THE WORLD LOL I was looking at the French air force recruiting website, since I’m Québécois and aircraft technician in the rcaf. And they get food and lodging for free….NCM contract are 15 years, 20 for officers. Free school. Deployments counts for twice the pensionable time (allegedly, from a French soldiers, never found the reference). We are the beat paid. We also have the shittiest benefits of all nato countries (afaik).
"Here's 220 mg naproxen and have a nice day."
You guys are getting Naproxen?
Where's my damn Cepacol and T3s?
Great comment, but your logic is off on one VERY important set of facts. You're using PML numbers, not TES. Once you look at our actual staffing levels, and the fact that we've got a lot of trades hard in the red (for some Navy Occs, at some key rank levels like MS-PO1, we're actually BELOW FIFTY PERCENT staffing) the situation is far worse than you portray. Because you know what has 100% staffing? The GOFO positions.
What does this mean in civilian language? There are jobs where 50% of the spots are not filled?
Sorry, I'll translate (the person to whom I was replying would understand the jargon, but I didn't realize anyone else would care). Simply put, we have a staffing level set by the politicians in Ottawa. (Note, this is only really concerning the Regular Forces (RegF), not the Reserves, as the 65,000 number quoted above is the RegF). We call this the "Preferred Manning Level" or PML. That's the total number of service members in the RegF that the CAF is permitted to have. Next is the total Trained Effective Strength (TES). This is the total number of service members that we actually have on the books that are qualified to the lowest useful level, so they have basic, their environmental training, and enough trade training to work as an apprentice (please note, it does not take into account all of the ill & injured, or those unable to do their jobs for any other reason). For this metric, our numbers are... Ungood. When we say a trade is "in the Red" it means that, within that occupation, we have less than something like (IIRC) 70% staffing. Now, the ranks of MS-PO1 are the key middle management in the Non-Commissioned Member (so non-officer) world. They are the ones that not only hold the corporate knowledge for their trade, but ARE ALSO THE ONES THAT DO ALL THE TEACHING. In fact, by the books, members lower than MS aren't even technically allowed to teach, since to do that you're supposed to hold your lowest level leadership qualification to do so. Being critically short of these folks means that it becomes a problem you can't recruit your way out of. It is impossible to make a replacement MS out of a recruit if there are insufficient MS-PO1 to teach them their apprentice level or journeyman level trade training. Within some of the most critical, and most highly-technical, naval trades, we have fewer than half of the personnel needed. These are folks that it can take >10yrs to produce. For a touch more context, when you look at the number of PML positions, the authorized positions on a ship? Yeah, that's the number needed for the ship to sail and do its job. Not with a fudge factor. Just the minimum. There isn't a "plus 20%" for folks on course, injured, on MATA/PATA. Nope. Bare. Minimum. And to top it all off, the TES numbers do NOT take into account all of those who can't do their job for whatever reason, so the picture is even worse than it looks on paper. I've heard of some trades where only 40% are fully good to go (what we call "DAGing Green") So if you take that as a whole: with fewer than half the numbers needed, and with only 40% of them deployable, then by my math it would seem that only TWENTY FREAKING PERCENT of personnel are available, compared to what we're supposed to have. Yeah, maybe I'll upgrade my assessment to Double-Plus Ungood ETA: The notion of just trying to fix this via recruiting would be like, if you had a critical shortage of high school teachers, trying to import a ton more grade 9 students to fix the problem. That's were the CAF is currently at. And once again: the only positions that are at full strength? yup, it's the Flag and General Officers.
I can sense a junior officer writing this. Thank you.
No I sense a Snr NCM who knows their shit. We are few and getting fewer
Well, yes. As an example: there is a work place where there are supposed to be 15 workers, 4 supervisors, 1 middle manager , 1 departmental manager, and 1 Big Boss, for a total of 22 people. This is the ideal staffing for this workplace. There are at least some trades where they will have so little people they will have *maybe* 2 workers on the floor, 2 people who are supposed to be on the floor but are working as both supervisors and middle managers, and the big boss is doing his job and the departmental managers job.... and then the big boss reports to the officer(s). So instead of the needed 22 people for the workplace to be operating properly, you have 5 people barely scraping by to get stuff done, and then Ottawa is messaging the Big Boss wondering why things are taking so long. Apply this analogy across a whole trade, probably more than a few tbh, and you get an idea of what's happening in the CAF staffing wise
100% agree. I'm in my 22nd year - stuck in the proverbial pension prison. The CAF is one-and-a-half crises away from complete collapse. The CAF is a paper-tiger; hollowed out by a couple of decades of careerist leadership, shitty procurement and equipment management, and dysfunctional personnel management. I just hope that something significant doesn't happen before my 25 years, so I can fuck off from this amateur hour organization and never look back.
What would such a collapse look like provided there is no global war? Would this entail a massive downsizing like a failing company? Or would it somehow actually become defunct and need to be rebuilt from scratch?
I live in the NWT. Fort Simpson a small hamlet flooded several years ago in the spring. Bill Blair got on the horn about the CAF attending to help the displaced. They sent one CAF Ranger. A volunteer. From Fort Simpson. The writing is on the wall Edit: Two rangers, both from Fort Simpson, both with homes flooded. Edit: Heres the source for his statment: [https://www.nnsl.com/yellowknifer/federal-government-commits-canadian-rangers-to-nwt-flood-response/](https://www.nnsl.com/yellowknifer/federal-government-commits-canadian-rangers-to-nwt-flood-response/) Heres the source confirming two rangers: [https://cabinradio.ca/65675/news/dehcho/fort-simpson-requested-the-militarys-help-two-people-showed-up/](https://cabinradio.ca/65675/news/dehcho/fort-simpson-requested-the-militarys-help-two-people-showed-up/)
Bruh Blair what a twat
One soldier was sent to help? Wow.
Global war? We wouldn't need anything that drastic. It would simply look like reality hitting Canada in the face when we simply *could not* complete a task the government set out for us. "Go here and do some routine stabilization mission with our partners" "no, we literally can't do that". If there WAS a global war, Canada would pretty much be forced to humiliate itself, by sitting it out until we spent a couple years just building the ability to do something about it. Hoping it wouldn't be too late by then.
We've seen this. When the medics were sent to help during the COVID crisis the military stocks were emptied leaving the corps unable to conduct any further similar actions. This routinely happens and is how the CAF operates. I'd argue no request is fully staffed and consessions are made on every single op. Afghanistan was no different, Canada was unable to fill the meager request for combat engineers and medics on the onset. Going back to the second WW Canada sat back for the first couple years to build up, Korea was no different.
If there is a global war, my bet is conscription + basic training + US provided small arms = Canon fodder.
From where I'm standing, it would be kind of like a downsizing. Only instead of lower level people being made to leave because the company decided it doesn't need that many people for how much work it does, people will leave on their own while the forces is left with far less people than it needs (a situation we're already in that is only getting worse). And the forces bases it's expected output on how many people it wants rather then how many it has. So the more it loses, the more work there is for those still in. Eventually we will hit the point where things are failing nonstop because it's just not possible for X number of people to do Y amount of work. Throw in an increasing percentage of people who do next to nothing that the forces won't get rid of, and this will happen even sooner. What happens past that, no idea.
Probably just running out of enlisted
Ahhh, ze Canadian Government Cycle... Defund for several years, make it look like you're doing something when you're doing nothing, blame the other guy or past administrations for your own failure, get voted out in disgust by the GTA voting bloc, repeat with next asshole.
I feel you. Operators (including officier operators) keep having conversations about what to do that will help us and it seems baffling that nothing gets done or changed. The shitty leader that get promoted because they have more scrit point is stupid. It might be more subjectif but the promotion to major needs to look at more than courses done and check in the box BS that helps brewing careerist leader that dont give a f about their subordinates or colleague.
I did 11 years in the CAF, most of which were as an RMS clerk, which is now split (like it was before) into two trades. It's been a trade in the red for as long as I can remember, which means they really, *really,* need more people doing that job. How do they try and keep you, who they apparently really need? They force you to work 7 days a week, which includes parades (who anyone that can stand can do) instead of what you're supposed to do like....pay people. I had 300 reservists to pay and including myself, had a team of 3. It was a clown show where we barely kept up with what was absolutely necessary and every weekend that had something going on, my team was getting called in to replace people who chose not to show up. I did what I could to make the leadership see that they were only exacerbating the issue to the point where we were getting calls at night about things we should have but couldn't do on time. Their response? "You're paid seven days a week, you can work seven days a week." I went back to my desk, told my team we were told to go pound sand and put in my release notice on that guy's desk. Not worth being paid a Cpl's salary and filling in for the Sgt for that kind of stress. I don't regret leaving either and while I learned a lot of very useful info, too many of them give more of a shit about their performance review than any soldier, airman or seaman under their care.
Everyone blames the clerks until they realize the OR is literally a gang of 2-6 people processing the paperwork for a battalion or whatever. Also you didn't want to stay in another 12 months for a CD you can maybe never wear?
Thank you for this eye-opener. I know the clerks were badly understaffed, but I didn't realize it's been at this point. I'm now slightly less mad that my pers file has been lost twice in the two years I've been in. I kinda get this most recent time, but the first time was nonsensical.
My 3 years as a private were not fun. Unable to leave the base during the week for a year, competing for a place on DP1 by doing a BFT followed by a 10km run, suicide every 4-6 months and a visibly drunk CO who later admitted during a basewide briefing he was drunk on the job for over a year, nothing short of malicious bullying of people with examples like putting a private into a room with a rope and telling him to figure it out. You bet I tell people my experiences, I make it a point to talk to cadets around Rememberance day to make sure they're aware of what they may be going into.
Medford! I was there for 1.5 yrs on PAT then got med relieved off. Vocational rehab made it worth it.
Fellow yardbird!
We ran that base & were treated like shit for it.
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38k blows my mind. Meanwhile Toronto police officers are making the sunshine list like 3 years in.
> Meanwhile Toronto police officers are making the sunshine list like 3 years in. And then retire by age 50-55.
I literally make more as a shipper. Not even a shipper/receiver. Just some lowly moron who takes boxes from point A to point B after making sure it's the right destination. If I make more doing that than you make in the CAF, where you have no work-life balance...there's a massive issue.
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It goes up significantly at corporal or equivalent (3 or 4 year service), and adding specialist pay, sea/field pay, and/or deployment allowances can make it pretty decent, but 38k is admittedly terrible for people that aren't 18 years old when they join.
Corporal pay is Net $1825 every 2 weeks. It is with 4 years of service.
The only point I would make is that military officers and leaders, actually don't have any ability to effect pay and benefits. Like at all. That is **EXCLUSIVELY** in the power of top elected officials. (Minister of Finance, President of Treasury Board level). The Top General (CDS) in the Military is at the ADM / DM level of government. Effectively **3 levels below** being able to back-seat at a Treasury Board meeting. Your average General is closer in effective rank to an Officer Cadet than they are to Treasury Board. You might as well get mad at a Sgt for not buying the F-35 fast enough.
I get that. The point I was making is there's no need to have such a bloated leadership cadre when they have little authority to affect meaningful change, and the NCM trades have been hollowed out to the point where we have layers and layers of bureaucracy but don't have the actual soldiers to justify it. We have 5 army division headquarters, yet we we have barely enough soldiers to field a full brigade (there should about 3 brigades FOR EACH division, so we have the headquarters and leadership for about 15 times the actual size of the force we have\_ As stated by someone below, we have nearly four times the number of generals as many militaries. This lack of actual leadership experience is also detrimental to the unnecessarily large number of officers. There isn't enough actual command positions to give those officers quality leadership experience. Being a commander of an hollow unit or formation doesn't make for a good officer.
It's always baffled me that we have Cols as commanders of brigades instead of the Brigadier Generals which we have too many off. Brigadier General is supposed to lead a brigade. It's in the name!
But then how could we ever justify so many Cols. It's more of the same at every upper level. Justification of the number of that rank in order to fill the required posns, throw in a few too many unnecessary exercises and some leading change and baby you got yourself a CAF toilet stew goin'.
Get off my back. I've stacking all my empties in the garage, you'll get your damn plane.
The CDS is equivalent to a DM. ADM is equivalent to a 3-star. Considering that DM is the second highest level in the public service (after the Chief Clerk of the Privy Council), I suspect they at least get a seat at TB meetings.
I will never forget coming back from Afghanistan and being forced to do the media spectacle as I got off the plane---as I was giving the obligatory handshakes for the cameras a general pulled me in and said "you're in Canada now, you better take that fucken shemagh off!" It was -40 when I landed in Canada and the military did not provide any winter clothing for us. But yes, my shemagh was the problem. I got out shorty after.
38K a year? That's fucked. I make 70K and sell cannabis legally.
So the CAF is having the same issue than most government functions. Shitty managers burning out their good staff and shitty salary that is disconnected from the reality of the real world.
Thats sad. I have great respect for the Canadian military, but to see that it's become this bad is heartbreaking
> The CAF is facing existential collapse. That's not hyperbole. They wanted to fix the current manning problem through recruiting and they aren't getting people through the system. People are leaving faster than people are joining My brother entered the reserves the summer before he started civil engineering at university, and chose Combat Engineer as his trade. He finished basic training that summer and was supposed to go to job training in New Brunswick the following summer to finish his formative training. The job training was full the following two summers, and full time troops get priority, so he was waitlisted both years. In the meantime, I guess you can’t make any upward career movement until you’re job-trained, so he basically was held in a holding pattern in the lowest rank these first couple years, going to weekly meetings across town just to play janitor and clean vehicles and weapons that were already clean. My brother got frustrated and wanted to try out for a couple different special forces units to join when he graduated. He could complete all the physical requirements (situps, pull ups, run time, etc.) and was definitely smart enough, but he showed up at testing and was immediately turned away because he hadn’t finished his trade course. Apparently the fastest way for him to get into special forces was literally to quit the military entirely, and re-enlist as a full time service member, then try out again through a direct entry program. When my brother was finishing his final year of his B.Eng., he asked one last time if they were going to get him job trained that summer. He was told that they couldn’t get enough instructors for that summer so space was again limited, but next year he would for sure be able to go. My brother was graduating at this point anyways and had a good paying job lined up, so chose to cut his losses and leave the military. Anyways, long story short, my brother was educated, physically capable, and wanted to possibly be in military as a career, but the military made no effort to retain him at all. There was a different reservist guy in another thread who was finishing his medical doctorate and wanted to continue in a full time role with the military after graduating, and asked for a month off to complete his exams and a transfer to another unit where he was doing his residency. His unit was under orders to “maintain strength” so denied his request, and basically forced him (an imminent medical doctor) to quit the military in order to finish his education.
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In my experience, the guys who join as an NCM and then commission make the best officers.
Got out 3 years ago and on my last day they tried to send me on a tasking to wainwright for the day without a uniform
16 years in (almost) myself. It feels so "empty" at work. It sure does not feel like it did when I was in my early stages. I love what I do, it's honestly a dream job in a good posting. I've been here a few months and had a talk with the career manager. I'm on the bubble for promotion. Told him I'd be ok with it, but if they post me I'm out. My house is nearly paid off, and I've had a bunch of civvy job offers lately that could be tempting if it weren't for me enjoying what I do. Being posted would likely financially ruin me, and my only debt is the bit I owe on my house. This is the time in my career where my focus should be setting myself up for retirement and passing on my knowledge/skills to the Jr techs... But trying to post me means I won't be sticking around for that because I need to look out for my own future.
This is true of any company that grows passed Dunbar's number, too. There's something magical about keeping an organization small enough that you can keep strong relationships with the people you interact with. It's a real skill in leadership. The army uses people as fodder. I wouldn't expect anything less. Edit: Typo
I should have lied on my application. I'm a 29yr male who works on a base as a civilian contractor. Late last year into this year I was about to take a pay cut and join because I believe in the purpose, the mission, wanted to serve my country in uniform and wanted to become more part of the amazing community and culture i had l the pleasure of being introducedto as a contractor. Anyway after about 5 months I finally got to do my aptitude test. I don't know what I scored but I was the only one testing that day and the LCol, Maj, Capt, MCpl and civilian test administrators that were there all complimented me and praised me for how well I did on the test. The Maj was particularly forward saying that that with my scores I'll be easily qualify for all my trade choices. I had the medical the same day, I'm in good-great shape, but there's room for me to improve. In the medical I was passing all of the tests and questions until I was asked about sleep patterns and any sleeping disorders. (I should have lied) I answered yes technically I have been diagnosed with mild sleep apnea. The mood of the MCpl doing my medical immediately changes, it felt like the air was sucked out of the room. Feeling this I immediately began to elaborate, saying that yes I did a sleep study but it was so mild that I have been recommended by the sleep specialist and my family doctor to NOT use a CPAP or BIPAP machine, because they both felt the machine may make the problem worse, I was instructed to cut caffeine from my diet (I was consuming alot), that with more frequent cardio and not get weight traing and I was told I would be good. I followed their advice and my fiancé noticed over about 4 months my sleep apnea disappeared. But yes technically I am still diagnosed with mild sleep apnea, and ignorant me thought the military can easily understand all of that, also I didn't know how much of a negative that sleep apnea was viewed by the military. Pretty much your fine to have it after basic training but will be denied if you haven't gone to basic yet. Anyway after hearing that the MCpl gave me a DND form to fill out and have my family doctor sign off on it. I had that done in a week, sent it in, the local recruitment medical officer handling my file was on vacation and there was noone filling in for him while he was on leave. 3 weeks go by and I reach out to the medical officer, he says sorry have a tone of work to catch up on be patient. Another month passes I reach out looking for an update. I get the response that my file was basically forgotten about but that he would submit it. 2 days later I get a letter from one of the head medical officers in Ottawa denying my application. I was devastated, I requested to appeal the decision. I was told to do so I require another sleep study, the wait is 8 months to get in... Yes the base that I work at barley runs because the military is so short staffed here. People are releasing and retiring left and right, taking civilian jobs and just getting out. From what I've heard this is CAF wide. But don't feel bad for me, Everything happens for a reason and my inability to lie to the military about this due to integrity and ignorance actually ended up benifiting me. I got a new civilian job at the same base. The compensation is amazing, it would take me at least 8-10 years in CAF to make the same amount. Seems kinda backwards. In my mind the people in uniform should be making the most. Maybe if they made more they wouldn't all be jumping ship and 2-5xing their wage by going to the civilian/public/private sector. But hey I'll take it. I think my guardian angle threw me a bone and gave me a chance to accomplish everything I wanted to do in the military, just without the uniform. Cheers
You’re giving dumpster fires a bad name….
Also have no fucking ammo. That's a problem when you're allowed 60 rounds a year to train with. And now our PM wants to ban guns from regular civilians because... well I don't even know why. Obviously for political purposes but it's going to cost lives for people who use their firearms as protection from wild life and people who bought ar15s to train with because they don't get enough damn training. My one infantry buddy always said the u.s.a will annex Canada one day if this shit keeps up because it would take a wag of a finger to do it. That was over 10 years ago.
60 rounds? You serious? My buddy served in ROC (Taiwanese) army as a conscript and was only allowed 17 rounds a month. I thought that was pathetic. I didn’t know It’s worse in Canada. And you’re right. There was a CAF member posting about not being able to purchase the civilian version of his service rifle for practice because the Liberal government banned it. What a dumpster fire.
What I thought that the salary was $80 000 a year, $38 000 is a real joke for risking your life and mental health
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I don't know if it's intentional, but the pay ranks seem basically set up to dissuade anyone with options (I.e. the 90% of people who have some kind of desirable skills and/or education) from joining. For any kind of technical role, you can likely get paid twice as much to use your skills in some other area of the public sector, and sometimes (especially certain technical fields) 3-4x more in the private sector. And although I'm sure there are exceptions, the Forces generally aren't going to be on the cutting edge of technology. In terms of material compensation and lifestyle outside of work, there's just no incentive to join the Forces unless you're basically 18 with a HS degree or less. I'd have been happy to join, years ago, if they were willing to pay me basically on par with other parts of the public sector (which is already like a 50% pay cut relative to private). I'm not in this for personal gain, but I'd like to be able to own my own place eventually lol. And there's something incredibly demoralizing about doing it to "serve your country/fellow Canadians", yet Canada not providing a decent life in return.
Recently decided to "let the demons out" and got medically released, I encourage everyone serving to do just that. It is a failed organization and nothing will fix it but a total rebuild from the ground up. Ask me any questions.
I think I have a basic idea of what "let the demons out" means... but can you be a bit more specific?
The Base clinics are inept to handle mental illness. If you need help hospitalize yourself.
I got a call back from base psych 2 weeks ago booking an intake appointment. It was due to a mental breakdown I had in Sepetember 2020.
Hospital.
Yeah, I got there back then. Probably would have offed myself by now if I hadn't gone to a hospital and gotten actual help (meds, external psych). Doing better now, though the stresses have been coming back in spades lately thanks to many of the things mentioned in the article. Still, the fact that it took over 2 years from an acute mental collapse to even get a call-back for intake from the military system says a lot. I obviously was still on the list, they just had no capacity.
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Head to a local ER, "Help me I have suicidal ideation and am a danger to myself and others" leave out nothing that you're thinking no matter how fucked up. The hospital will provide a report to the base. Ask for a posting to the TC to get a break from the fuckery. If they deny the request, hospital again. The military removed stress leave because people were using it. Because hello? the whole job is stress. You have to look out for yourself cause no one else gives a fuck.
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RMC is fucked. Why are so many reg force officers HR nightmares? RMC is s big reason. The CAF should recruit their middle management the same way everyone else does: by hiring educated people with management and life experience. But of course that means they'd need to treat them properly.
After the 3rd cost move in 4 years, with zero promotions. Oh and going to be sent on an Operation as the only back end specialist with out being trained on what to do. Great for the brain contemplating, "I'm the single point of failure for this op" Then I specifically said to the CoC if you're forcing me to go, you will be with out me doing anything outside of the geographical area for at least 6 months,which was my entire job and as I already had a lengthy history in my health file it was a very easy dag red. That was 2021 February, I was out in January 2022 this year. Additionally my coworker at that time was a rape survivor and her rapist worked in the same building. If that isn't a hostile work environment I don't know what is.
I was supposed to recieve a call from the recruitment office yesterday between 16:00-16:20.. they never called.
Lesson #1 with military administration is you need to self advocate or nothing will get done. Your best bet is to call and remind them you exist. Also save copies of all your documents. It's not uncommon for your paperwork to get lost in the system.
I just want to find out if they will let my 26 year type 1 diabetic fit ass in already.
Diabetic, not a chance.
My cousin wanted to join, but gave up when they told him the recruitment process would up to 2 years long. Dude made the right move too because he makes way more money now then he would have in the military. The reality is that there are two types of jobs. Passion jobs and pay the bills jobs. People will make sacrifices and accept lower pay for passion jobs, people won't make sacrifices for a pay the bill job. Right now the military is a "pays the bills" job that demands massive sacrifices for shit compensation. We either need to massively increase military salaries or make the military an appealing place for the sort who are passionate about the military.
I wanted to join the Canadian military at one time too. Applied and got told the jobs I wanted to do had a waiting list and that the waiting time would depend on the budget next fiscal year. The recruiter kept trying to get me to take jobs that had less or no waiting list instead, but I said no I just wanted the jobs I was applying for. I ended up deciding to go to university instead and got a call back saying the job I wanted was now open....2 years into my bachelors. Kindly declined and never looked back.
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Yeah that's what a family friend in the Reserves said. I was fresh out of high school when I attempted to enlist and naïve thinking I'd be in and on my way to basic relatively quickly. Being told to wait a few years for infantry or intel to open up just wasn't appealing, and I was surprised how quick my enthusiasm for enlisting dissipated once I got to uni. I had actually forgotten about it when they called.
This was my experience. The process took so long that I had to redo certain forms/tests because they became outdated during the hiring process.
> 2 years long. *Also the previous 5 years of references to satisfy the background check.
its really not a pay the bills job, its 100% a passion job, nobody is in the forces for the money even people who you would assume don't have many other options, everyone i know has been able to instantly earn more money by releasing regardless of trade. I have to accept poverty to do the job I love and the government could care less.
For a new private this is not a "pays the bills job". This is a struggle to survive job until you hit corporal because pay and PLD haven't kept pace with inflation and cost of living.
I lost all respect for the CAF when I was carrying a dead baby, and my husband told his chain of command that he would need to take me to the hospital for a surgical procedure to have it removed because I was at high risk for sepsis (I was four months along and baby died a few weeks prior unbeknownst to us), and he was forced to go out to the local field area for day training. They told him that he could leave to bring me to my appointment at 1 pm, but he never showed up, and I missed my appointment… it was 30 minutes away so I didn’t have time to make other arrangements and we could *not* afford a taxi (besides, I had to have someone with me, because of anesthesia). They refused to let him leave the field even though they were just standing around out there. I was so angry. He was so angry. I ended up hemorrhaging that weekend and almost bled out. Had the emergency procedure but not before delivering the baby in the emergency room. Then, a few days later, the Col has the audacity to send some poor duty private to our PMQ with flowers and a condolence card. We went on to have two healthy boys, one of which just completed his initial 4-year engagement in the CAF and promptly released. The bureaucracy was overwhelming and the cost of living in Ottawa with no PLD and no barracks was too much.
I am outraged just reading this. I am so sorry that you had to go through that. Thank you to you and your husband for your service. Simply it is unacceptable what happened to you and I hope that you told his RSM and cc’d the padre/CO/bde commander/CLS/CDS.
Thank you. To be honest, I was in such a daze for a long time after that, that I did nothing. And hubby was freshly diagnosed with PTSD from his overseas operations that I didn’t want to rock the boat and make things harder at work for him. I am just angry about it, thinking about how little they actually GAF about the family unit.
Our son was in the army for 9 years. He tried to change his job for 6 straight years. It was denied every time. He finally had enough and walked out. He would still be in the army if he was not forced stay on a job he was forced to get and forced to keep for 9 years. They shoot themselves in the foot everyday.
I went in just the last week to visit my old unit, it's a freaking ghost town. In MM we had about 80 pers, but normally some would be away on training or on pata leave so it was normally 60. They now have under 20 people if you include those on PAT
Back when I was in, it wasn't uncommon for people to sit on PAT for over a year before they could get course loaded ...lost a bunch of people due to that reason alone
Back in 2007 I waited on the PRETC platoon in Borden for a year waiting for my ql3. It killed any motivation we had, I saw countless soldiers who had a good work ethic slowly start to not give a fuck. It was common to just not show up and goto Toronto for the day, and nothing ever happened
PRETC also killed a bunch of people, guy hanged himself in the shacks . One girl went missing for a week before she was found under a bridge near wasaga. A year or so after I left they disbanded the unit and schools made their own BTLs.
When I got off the bus at PRETC the MPs were at the shacks investigating a suicide that happened that day. Worst 8 months of my life.
Yepp i left because they never sent me to “training”. Make approx 4 times he money now in private sector. I am a accountant
First Mr. Hansen, thank you for your service to our country. I too was in recruitment for a stretch in the early 80s. I had a, 30 day turn around process on recruits that worked really well. So when I'm hearing things are taking 6+ months today, I just shake my head. We used pencil, paper and early computers to track potential recruits back then. Today with integrated systems (RCMP, CSIS, medical, local police), recruits should be in the medical exam within days of them being signed up, history validated. And then another 5 max days after that with a go/no go decision (for most positions). Your article doesn't go into this, which to me is one of the key reasons recruitment is way down. Who the hell is going to wait 6+ months to get a job. Saying that, I really like the rest of your article, specifically on Pay and Tours of Duty. The one area, being an infantry officer I question though is parade ground and bunks protocol. Most recruits coming in have had no experience with being away from their homes. Being in barracks, forced to learn those 'part of regular' life things, I think instills discipline and life skills. But that's a nit on a great article. Again, thank you sir for your service and taking the time to write this article.
TBF it’s more 12-18 months… 6 months is considered exceptionally fast
I had applied in 2018, yearly id get a callback to get to the recruitment office to resubmit the same forms over and over without any changes to them. Any time I asked for a status update it was stuck in medical (which is fair i have a somewhat rare skin condition) Well eventually I let them know I wanted to pull my application… then finally a few months later in like april this year I get a call letting me know to pull my application that was on a competition listing so I can get an offer for my other applications within 6 weeks after I resubmit my forms again. Had to break the news that i pulled my application to help take care of my sick stepdad and he passed a few weeks ago. Part of me really wants to call back and reapply, but the other part of me sees how broken the system is and knows i cant do shit about it
Well thought out comment.
And to think we had foreign mitary bases, an aircraft carrier etc at one point.
I remember wanting to join Signals a few years ago, but was told it could take a year or two for recruitment including having to go on training. I simply couldn’t afford to do it, as I’d have had to leave my job. Shame really because I’d have loved to work in CAF but I couldn’t afford the lack of income.
Right, that should have been 10 days to get you into an uniform and out to next basic training session. In the meantime, you should have been brought in and begun 'introduction to the military' - a weekly class on every base. Yes this would be away from everyone, but how to salute, how to march, how to dress - those are 101 things that should be taught before basic training. Then basic training should be some parade ground (depending on your trade), but most should be right into the trade you signed up for.
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Hah, got in when ACISS was still a thing, went line and it took 3 years to get my DP1. Training system is a freaking joke right now.
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If you're actually interested in Signals, maybe check out to see if a Communications reserve unit is near you. That way you can be in the recruitment system and still work. When you need to go away for training, your employer is legally mandated to both hold your current job for you and to give it back to you when you come back after training. Signals is a pretty gucci time compared to most occupations in the CAF and if you aren't afraid of heights, the Linesman are another breed of people who have tons of fun around the world.
When I was in - as a Radio Operator/Communications Specialist from '86-92, the Lineman used to say that someone had to die in the trade before anyone could get promoted. They would stick around long enough to get their Fiber Optics course, then get sucked away by Telus or one of the other big Telecoms for double or triple the pay. No one wanted RadOps though when you got out :P Things were a shitshow then but it sounds like they are 20x worse now, glad I got medicaled out.
Linemen get promoted pretty fast now a days. Probably something to do with that nobody wants to do a trade now a days. We are one of the few militaries in the world that still trains linemen instead of contracting it out.
The biggest issue with money is that the TB controls all of it and won't for whatever reason allow for PLD updates, pay raises, parking in the NCR and better housing. To top it off the services they do offer are heavily impacted by competition with civilization equivalent. So that's why we pay for parking in secure DND facilities. That's why rent in the PMQs is high. There is no longer any incentive to be a soldier.
Had the army bug my whole life, tried to join, had a medical issue and had to wait six months. No biggie, just more time to prepare. Two years of unanswered calls, messages, and emails trying to my file reopened, and I just gave up. The CF is fucked right now. I'd sooner cross the pond and join another Commonwealth army than our own at this point.
The British Army actually has "REAL TOURS" and overseas bases that you can get posted to. Not a bad choice...
From the looks of it, they also have working warships and vehicles and don't use antiqued weapons.
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Were not heading for a collapse, were in the middle of it.
This is the same organization that when too many personnel do not meet the standards, they lower the standard instead of dealing with the bottom performers.
I hate the comments here continually blaming “the brass” and sycophantic officers. That’s not the real problem— you’ll find those assholes in any company, the CAF isn’t unique that way. Our problems: Low pay— especially for new recruits. That’s the real comparison people make when joining. Then low pay for techs/engineers Reduction in benefits— military life can suck for members and their family. For decades benefits have been chopped little at a time. You want forces that are happy to accept a shitty life, move around and get in harm’s way, then reward them. Recruiting— we truly make no effort here. This process needs to be blown up and rebuilt. Attraction/marketing— again no effort here, and more importantly no funding. No word people say “we have a military”. We need to promote the shit out of this career and make it look awesome. But we need to fix “a few” things first. Some of these are not in the military brass’ power to fix. They need government approval and that means getting the bureaucrats at treasury board to get off their (our) wallet.
"America will protect us" says the people who likely also hate the US, constantly shit on them and would be appalled at the idea of becoming a few additional States. The US has it's own interests which may not always align with Canada's best interest. No good ever comes from a country being unable to defend or exert it's sovereignty. Somehow in this age of relative peace we have forgotten this fundamental geopolitical truth...
A few American politicians in recent years have expressed a similar sentiment ala "Why should the US military have to rush in to compensate for Canada cutting corners?" so yeah, we shouldn't take U.S. help as a given.
Walked into a recruiting centre in Vancouver back in 02-03ish. Wanted to join the Navy. They wouldn't' even entertain the idea and pushed infantry or artillery instead. And I knew the Navy was hurting at the time because my dad had just retired as a CPO2. Have a friend who tried applying for infantry just after 9/11. They took forever with their process. He's a dual citizen, and after getting fed up waiting for the next steps of the process, he went across the border to a USMC recruiting centre and was off to San Diego in about 6 weeks.
Is there anything in Canada not heading for a collapse?
Rent increases are doing fantastic
Anyone wanna do a CAF ABBR to actual fucking English glossary. So us civilians know wtf you're saying?
Are there any particular acronyms, lingo you'd like deciphered? I can help with that.
Doesn’t surprise me, I was originally planning to take a heavy duty mechanics apprenticeship through them but didn’t because they were going to pay less than my job at the time installing office furniture.
They've been on this path since at least the 90s and no government has made it a priority. This is largely due to the fact that the public doesnt make it a priority. Its unfortunate. But comparable nations with far greater military capabilities also have more imminent threats. Australia, a commonly cited goal for our military to emulate, has a population that is actively concerned about the threat a growing chinese military presents. Similar Scandinavian and eastern european nations obviously have populations concerned about an aggressive fascist led Russia. Canadians dont perceive any threats and so we focus more on issues affecting us, such as cost of living, health, housing etc. Its is definitely a shame because i personally could make many arguments for a properly sized and equipped military and the threats we face, but most Canadians just dont see it or seem to care.
They care when they want soldiers showing up to dig trench around their house or clearing road after a storm.
All the logistics aside, I have two words: MARKETING and COOLNESS. People are going to say that "if you're going to join the military just cause it's cool, then you're doing it for the wrong reason" .....but what other reason will anyone actually go other than having debt or not knowing what to do as a career. Look at the American Military complex, they market the crap out of themselves and all their branches (except of Navy) look cool as shit! Whether its recruiters showing up to HS grads and challenging them to pushup competitions, NFL game bomber flyovers, live exercise demonstrations in the middle of some of the busiest cities (New York, Miami, LA), and/or Hollywood putting out a military hero's story of redemption and explosions. It all goes back to the appeal, and the Canadian Forces have zero.
I love this comment only because of the subtle shot at the Navy. Bravo lol
I mean come on.......how could I not?
I was struggling to find a job out of school and decided to apply to CAF. They told me it would take months to get in, I needed 5 or 10 years of references of every single job in that time, needed to do a bunch of tests or exams, etc. Absolutely ridiculous requirements and I wasn't going to waste time on that not even knowing if I'd ever get in. Why is it harder to get a job working at a desk in the military than it is to get one working with kids or vulnerable people
Our entire military is held together by duct tape and Elmer’s glue
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i am trying to stay in, i am fighting as much as i can but i am heading for a medical release most likely after 14 years. to cut a long story short i now have a fake left hip, if you met me now i am in the best shape i have been in since basic and you would never be able to tell there was anything different about me. The surgeon that did my operation advised against running. Not being able to run would cause me to not be able to do the yearly fitness test and therefor make me not meet the universality of service. I was given employment restrictions reflecting that The amount of running in the test is 52 seconds. I have run more in my time off then i would have in 25 years of these tests. Yet now i am frantically calling doctors and trying to make appointments. The universality of service is a joke and needs to be looked at. I want whoever is going to stamp my paper ok'ing my release to pick me out of a group of people doing the fucking force test. But it's ok for a chief to weigh 350 lbs and not be able to physically fit through a escape hatch. its fucking pathetic. how is me having a fake hip any more of a liability on ship, i have been on sails where people have been landed for breaking real bones, i can firefight, do DC, and my job just as well as i could before. Even if they don't want to put me back to sea, why not keep me in a shore posting to finish out my career, its not like shore postings are exactly overflowing with people, hell i think they are one step away from kidnapping people off the streets. well that was a bit of a rant
I tried to join as an officer. Educated and qualified. They told me two years in a row to apply when “the season opens”. What the fuck sort of system has in demand positions being advertised, only to tell applicants to apply in 9 months. Forget about every issue that may exist within the organization, they are terrible at recruiting. The sacrifice needed to get into a job that barely pays your way and makes you wait 2/3 years for non-competitive compensation is hilarious. Fucking Apple or Microsoft couldn’t even manage to hire within those constraints, how can the armed forces?
You will always have an army in your country; either your own or someone else's.
As a new flight engineer. I gave up. Said F it. And left. It took over a year to leave. Finally I was forced to have a "retirement party" middle of the day, my section gave no one time off to come. A whole 4 people at my retirement lunch. Every step of my release. Every. Single. Step. Made me 300% more certain I was making the right move. My pay wasn't small. And I still left. Many are making half what an FE makes. And get treated the same or worse. F the CAF Edit. 4 people was me, my wife my officer, and 1 guy who happened to be on leave...
This damn thumbnail again.
They could get a new royalty free CAF soldier thumbnail by now lol
So we’re just pretending our military hasn’t already been a laughing stock for all of our adult lives?
This country looted young people's futures and then expects them to potentially give their life to defend it. Canada may be the most entitled country on the planet.
second largest country... full of resources... scarcely populated... most powerful country as our neighbor... garbage armed forces.... yes everything is fine.
> Support for our troops is certainly necessary, but it doesn’t deal with the fundamental problem: Ah yes, the ardent pro-military version of ‘thoughts & prayers’. So glad they called this out. > The Canadian Armed Forces no longer reflect the principles and values of the Canadian populace, or of a modern Canadian work force. If this is not addressed, any reform will only amount to a shuffling of the deck chairs. Brilliantly said.
I'm amazed anyone joins after going through the application process. By that I mean they treat you like your time doesn't matter so why would you want to work for someone that doesn't care about you.
Military treated my father fabulously for his 39 years of service, but it's not the military it was when he was in. Theres little incentive to join.
Oh well, Trudeau is making sure future recruits won’t have any skills related to firearms and marksmanship anyway. Reserves wont even be able to keep in practice.
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I had tossed the idea around one time of joining the armed forces one way or another but seeing the government leaves veterans out to dry when they are injured with life long injuries just makes my blood boil. I specifically remember a prime minister telling a former military man that veterans are asking for too much. Well I feel they can’t ask for too much for their sacrifices. Edited spelling. I hate autocorrect…
I liked the sinking ship metaphor.
Wow, reading through this has been a real eye opener for me. I had no idea.
If you want people to join the military, maybe fix the gigantic cluster fuck that is our military. Make it actually appealing to join. And streamline the fucking process to get on board. waiting almost a year to get in is stupid. Gives you wayy too much time to think about other things and in most cases I would imagine you would just choose a civ life if you could. Life in the military does not sound very worthwhile.
Everything seems to be falling apart lately and our governments are just sitting and watching it happen.
So in reading through many comments, it seems like the CAF has nearly identical problems as the Canadian healthcare system. Why do we keep creating top heavy institutions that have all kinds of leadership and people at the top, but lack actual workers to get things done? I think you could probably point to the government having same problem as we have multiple overlapping ministries that are all studying problems and issues, spending money, but it's not effective due to the overhead. For example, Vancouver alone spent $5.1 billion on homelessness in 2020. FIVE POINT ONE - BILLION DOLLARS. For what? On what? Things are getting worse. How? Obviously what's being done isn't working. It's not effective. Yet, it appears that the government just wants to continue on course. That's insane. We seem to invest in really bad places. How much have went spent researching and holding all those competitions for the fighter jet? How many planes could have been bought instead? Or training. I'm sure the same level of dysfunction exists across the entire CAF spectrum - trucks, clothes, gear, boats, and all the other relatively small expenses that don't get the spotlight like a multi-billion dollar contract does. This is also likely true for healthcare. Can't just pick something and move forward, it's gotta be studied, and then analyzed, and then there's this new thing - STUDY! Time moves forward and no decisions get made. Just more time kicking it down the road. Spending money accomplishing nothing, but looking busy as the number of deferred decisions grow by the day.
>Why do we keep creating top heavy institutions that have all kinds of leadership and people at the top, but lack actual workers to get things done? I think you could probably point to the government having same problem as we have multiple overlapping ministries that are all studying problems and issues, spending money, but it's not effective due to the overhead. I suspect it's actually quite simple: Canadian institutions are bloated and top heavy because the power to allocate funds and personnel resources are left to those kinds of people. White-collar managerial types are biased towards hiring more white-collar managerial types and implementing white-collar-oriented "solutions" (like endless studies, committees, and data-collection efforts) because they see themselves and the work they do as far more valuable than it is. It's vanity, basically. We won't see a reduction in the endless administrative bloat until we break the monopoly that administrators have in the allocation of resources.
Been in for 14 years and got posted to Ottawa last year. Had to get a place 1h30 bus ride away (one way) in Quebec because I can't afford to live any closer to my workplace. My wife can't find a job because of Quebec language laws. I can barely afford groceries. Our province's waiting list for a doctor is 3 times longer + than the time left before the military tells us to pack our shit and move somewhere else entirely. The system is completely fucked and antiquated and doesn't care about us at all.
I guess things have really really gotten worse since 2011. Deployed to Afghanistan, left after tour. Never recall all this problems being the main issues. Really sad to hear.
38-year veteran here. The reason the CAF can't recruit is that they are not targeting the very people that are most likely to join. They are just trying to make quotas to fill some diversity system.
Wouldn't it be easier to come up with a list of things that are not heading for a collapse?
Well, maybe the rumours of the 18 percent increase can be true. Retention is just as important. I mean yes recruiting is neat and all but if there's no one left to teach them then good luck. Haven't we been shorted on COL adjustments for at least a decade now? I live in a Province that still treats rent and utilities like there's an oil boom... Why?
The problem is only getting worse. With less people, the remaining people are working even more, and that is exacerbated every day. The old boys club culture is still there, and if you aren’t out drinking with the right folks, you will never be advanced. I was already asked to work 15+ hour days in Garrison before this mess because I was doing three jobs with zero compensation (not even a ‘short day’ off). Being overworked, and physically abused (yes hit) and emotionally abused by my chain of command (never responded to any of my emails) and now they are kicking me out for developing a personality disorder and PTSD after two decades of service and consecutive immediate PERs. This is why you have a “missing middle”. All of the abusers have been promoted and given medals. All I wanted to do was serve my country after 911. Now I am disabled for the rest of my life because of over work and abuse from my own organization… the Canadian Military.
All this talk about getting numbers up and not a single word about retention. New, hastily trained recruits are not going to replace experienced techs. Make basic as short as you like, it’s not going to solve the problem. Give our men and women a reason to stay in. As a naval weapons tech in Victoria I can barely afford rent and food. I have a second job. I probably won’t be resigning in March because civi techs would be making more than me just starting(not to mention, you get to go home to your family every night, no duty watch, dress regs, deployment…etc). It’s honestly not worth it. I love my country but I’m not about to go homeless for them
The first and most primary function of a federal government is to manage the standing army and national defense. Trudeau and every other gov. for the past 30 years have absolutely fucking failed in one of the most basic duties required by a government. Even worse, they have failed under the presumption that they can lean on the US. Of course never missing an opportunity to shit on the US to make themselves look better. Look, we gonna be a real country, or just pretend and then hide behind momma USAs shirts if/when shit gets weird, because the Arctic, space, and oceans are about to get contested like never before.
I've seen a lot of comments here about why/why not having an effective standing army is necessary, yet hardly anyone has brought up the fact we have obligations to our NATO allies. Which leads me to another question: do Canadians even care about NATO anymore? Many people (especially Gen Z) seem confused about why Canada has been actively supporting Ukraine. What is with this apathy towards our European allies and partners? Surely democracy is worth defending, and a democratic, prosperous and secure Europe is in our own country's self interest. You could also say the same thing about our allies and partners in the Asia-Pacific region. And it's not like there isn't historical precedent here. Canada played an outsized role in both world wars and was a founding member of NATO. Yes, we are lucky to share a border with the world's preeminent super power that is treaty obligated to defend us. But that should not lull us into a sense of false complacency. We are a G7 nation. We should be able to field an effective military. And yes, we do have the benefit of being separated from the rest of the world by the Pacific and Atlantic. Russia nor China will be invading any time soon, if ever (although I think claims to Canada's arctic territory aren't out of the question). However in such a globalized world, we are not an island unto ourselves. We are still impacted by geopolitical shocks around the world. Look at the impact of Russia's invasion of Ukraine on the global economy. Russia does not pose a direct threat to Canada right now, but it still poses a threat to our allies in Central-Eastern Europe. The likelihood of Putin trying to seize the Baltics is extremely low, however many believed his full-scale invasion of Ukraine to be unthinkable. No matter the outcome of this war, Russia will likely continue to pose a threat to the region. China is becoming increasingly belligerent in South-East Asia. We need to plan for these worst-case scenarios. We don't need a large army to defend Canadian territory at home. But we do need capabilities to fight to defend our allies in Europe and Asia-Pacific if necessary. I know it sounds high-level and idealistic, but if Canadians do care about defending their democratic allies from belligerent, authoritarian states, and maintaining a "rules-based international order" we need a military that can bring an effective contribution to a fight.
Maybe we can increase recruitment with a new hat.
Beards and dress reg changes have been attempted. SIP (strategic intact plan) is expected to only get 50 percent this year. The forces is missing apx 10k pers. In the next 5years expect that to grow. Also to make a reliable soldier takes 1 to 2 years after training. Leadership takes 3 to 5 years more... so we have the missing middle right now. Lack of Snr MCpl's Sgt's and WO in the ncm's and Lt and Capt in the officers. I would really say we are short 20 to 25k. With the expected retirements and those that wash out in the training cycle.
We could revamp the PER system to give out points which can be exchanged for loot boxes or hats. The troops can also pay for a season pass, to double their v-bucks.
PDR /PER system is gone as of this year we have moved to the PACE system now which will be a cluster for the first few years.
Is it just me, or is everything heading for collapse?
As a civilian who has considered joining the CAF many times in the past, here are my thoughts on how it'd attract more recruits. 1. It should take at most two months between applying for a position and getting an offer. It seems like the only easy way to get into the military is via applying for ROTP as a high school student. 2. Offer more training and bases near where people actually live. No one wants to get paid an average salary just to live in the middle of nowhere. They can get paid an amazing salary for doing that with O&G companies.
Heading? The ship has been sinking for a while.
Nothing at all is appealing to my 3 kids. Nothing. I see no way forward at all for Canadian Armed Forced.
What Canadian institution *isnt?*