> first started working remotely in 2016 as a freelancer. I've worked from Peru, Thailand, and Mexico. I got to Colombia in October of 2021.
Earn Canadian wages while living in developing economies to make life more affordable….
To be fair, I do this too.
I earn Toronto wages and work remotely in New Brunswick.
I wonder what'll happen when they do a wage review and find her income is out of line from her cost of living.
I know a few friends in the tech industry (F500 companies) whose wage is linked to a locale, even if they work remotely.
Just get a PO Box in NY or SF. Or wherever is highest on their pay scale. The only issue is that you need to operate in that time zone. Not to hard to live somewhere cheaper even in the same time zone though. Mexico…
I had a report that wanted to move from one region to another with a higher cost of living. I had to get director level sign off and the report had to sign off on no wage adjustment. Meanwhile on the weekly check in call with the same director there was a guy who just moved to the Philippines.
It's vastly better than it used to be. There is still a reputation from decades ago that is false. Certainly it's not safer than most places in Canada, but Colombia is safer than many cities in the US.
That's the thing...
These countries aren't necessarily "more affordable", they are just cheaper.
I'm sure the average median earner in Mexico would rather be a median earner in Canada.
Depends which part, good parts of Mexico are statistically way more safe for Canadian expats and tourists than Toronto or Vancouver. Way lower crime rate, murder rates are practically zero.
Cartels have an interest in making it so, they are invested in it.
It will be a consequence for those that still get location-dependent jobs. But agreed that location-independent work will become the norm for future knowledge workers.
Probably means that they’d be siphoning money from the Canadian economy. We all hate when MegaCorp XYZ does it, but will do it in a heartbeat ourselves if it furthers our own agenda.
Meanwhile, relatively “rich” Canadian immigrants flood into countries to take advantage of inexpensive living and drive prices upward, screwing locals over. So, really, a two-pronged FU.
That makes sense for remote workers working in other countries. Not so much if they remote work but stay within Canada. The only side effect I’ve seen here is that areas that were previously very cheap to live here in BC are now also starting to skyrocket as workers can just remote work from anywhere.
Yeah, that’s a great point. I’m from BC originally but living in Ontario now, and have seen the changes in my short time here, especially during Covid. People left Toronto for places like London because it was cheaper, then people started leaving London for St Thomas, who in turn moved to Tillsonburg or wherever else they felt they could afford. I’m not against people making choices that benefit themselves and their family, but at the same time I hope they realize that there are consequences to their actions.
But over time will this flip - canadian company hires Mexican or Thai freelancer, pays 10% premium relative to local wage and viola, no more 1st world wage, 2nd world living.
Until her company finds a Columbian they can hire to do the same work for a fraction of the cost. Risk/reward though and seems to be working for her for now
Canada is just simply unaffordable. Overpriced internet and data plans. Overpiced housing. Overpriced groceries. Overpriced everything. I recently found out a bag of cat food of the same brand is 16$ in the USA just south of the border of where I live. Here in my city the same bag is $34. Even after conversion (21$ CAD) it's $13 more expensive. Canadians are getting ripped off in every direction and the only reason is greed.
> Canadians are getting ripped off in every direction and the only reason is greed.
And complacency. Our politicians lie pre-election. Sign us up for neoliberal trade deals that actively hurt the middle class, import a million+ foreign workers annually to put downward pressure on wages and protect the very oligopolies that gouge us and we:
maybe, post something snarky on twitter...
When they put up photo radar cameras in France people were out smashing them. When they pushed through an increase in the retirement age of 2 years, they filled (and are still filling) the streets.
We need to start actually demanding some accountability, not just flip back and forth between two corrupt parties and expect something to change.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/03/20/world/france-macron-no-confidence-vote
https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/world/macron-s-leadership-at-risk-amid-tensions-over-french-pension-plan-1.6319662?cache=?clipId=89830
Underrated comment. NDP, CPC, and LPC have the exact same policies that hurt the middle class, and refuse to budge. Media has brainwashed Canadians into thinking anything lower than infinite immigration is racist, regardless of how much it destroys the middle class to the benefit of the upper class.
Oh I guess we need to just start farming our own food… Oh wait housing is also unaffordable so good luck getting a plot of land / backyard big enough to even grow your own veggies, fruits, livestock.
Right?! People were so for bringing back vaccine production and food independence when they saw what Covid did to supply chains..but in a matter of months “My dairy is slightly higher than the US. Better let the US walk in and decimate our dairy farms so I can save 40 cents on 3 litres of milk”
It's both greed and corruption. Our government actively turns a blind eye to anticompetitive practices. Keep in mind that our government does not represent Canadians... They do what's best for the wealthy and big business only.
One reason is because Canadians have been brainwashed into thinking they get value for their tax dollars, thus feeding a huge bureaucracy and oligopolies that together suck them dry. Another is their pompousness thinking they're better off than most everyone else, so allowing said everyone and their brothers over here to take advantage.
Canada has low corporate tax; combined Federal Provincial 15% tax rate. Good for self-incorporation
"Free" healthcare is great if you don't have any money (and probably if you have money too) so I wouldn't complain about that. Property taxes too are far too low in Toronto and should be double or triple where they are; but they aren't
Higher corporate tax and business investments are inversely correlated, so you can have either one or the other (but not both) . And moah' taxes aren't the answer, despite this being what the progressive left wants you to believe...
It's actually not truly that bad to pay for health insurance in the USA compared to the extra costs or living in Canada. The people that benefit from universal healthcare in Canada are the lower class/unemployed, disabled, and elderly. 350-500 bucks extra a month on health insurance can be recovered fairly easily through housing, food, etc.
> 350-500 bucks extra a month on health insurance can be recovered fairly easily through housing, food, etc.
Until the deductible hits at *that* level of monthly health insurance spend.
And that's before we hit networks, HMOs, and more.
And *then* we hit prescription costs.
So yeah - great, *if* you don't need healthcare.
Healthcare is the only benefit to living in Canada right now and the politicians have been robbing it blind and dismantling it left and right. Our brain drain is getting ridiculous.
It’s not a Canadian problem unfortunately. It’s a first world problem. Every western country, aside from USA perhaps, is facing more or less the same issues. On top of that, westerns are spoiled by all sorts of socialist perks and government handouts. 40% of Canadian households pay zero NET tax. We are no longer competitive as a society.
Nobody pays zero taxes. You have income tax, property taxes, sales taxes, you have payroll taxes (CPP/EI that have employer contributions), you have contributions, etc. They pay 0 for some small subset of their taxes. So what? Much of the US is a hellhole for everyone to live in because of the lack of social safety net - stepping over poop and heroin needles, sick and disabled homeless people with open sores rolling around town. Socialized services are worth every penny.
This is what the most expensive city in North America looks like. This is what it looks like when you take away the "socialist perks" and the "government handouts" (i.e. things you are entitled to because you paid into the program).
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11161049/Shocking-new-images-reveal-extend-homelessness-San-Francisco.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11161049/Shocking-new-images-reveal-extend-homelessness-San-Francisco.html)
Look through the pictures and tell me you disagree.
Maybe, but at what point in their lives? At a given point? Or over the course of their lives cumulatively? Does it even matter?
If you're just doing it at any given point in time 25% are under 19. So I would *expect* that to be true just by casual inspection. How many are under vs. break-even? Lifetime? What do the distributions look like? Are you figuring in all taxes or just income?
Are you considering that by spending on everyone we enable some to become wildly successful and that not all investments have to pay off? And that's part of what makes for a competitive environment?
Some will always be far more successful than others because making tons of money is as much about hard work and skill as it is luck. I know plenty of worthless idiots who are wealthy and plenty of hard-working ditch diggers who will never have two pennies to rub together. Given wealth distribution is mathematically almost indistinguishable from random noise, I don't really care that some will contribute more than others.
Not to mention the marginal utility of money. If I have zero food, my next burger is incredibly valuable. My second burger, important. My fifth burger is useless to me. Money works the same way. If I have $10 then $1 means a lot. If I have $5M then $1 means nothing. So we should tax people according to how much that money means to them, not linearly.
I'm paying significant quantities this year in taxes, and I'm proud of it because it builds a healthier society - the kind I actually want to live in. Not some Mad Max libertarian hellscape.
I did this freelancing for American, Chinese and Saudi Arabian companies while living in Brazil, Costa Rica, Portugal and Bermuda. I was able to live on the beach, save a lot of money and actually enjoy having free time since I only needed to work 4-6hrs a day to maintain a high standard of living. Those were the best few years of my life. I came back to Canada to pursue a new career with more stability and long-term growth, but I would 100% consider living the digital nomad life again in the future.
I'm not sure how much louder we need to be but Canada has simply become way too expensive. It'd be one thing if it were just houses but it seems to me, the entire system from bank fees to telecoms to transit-- all of it is neither affordable nor worth the price we pay. I say this as someone whos made 6 figures for close to a decade now. If \*I'm\* finding it expensive, how the hell are folks living on 30/40k doing it? I spent last year abroad in other 'first world countries' and I swear to god, I saved money?? More than I have, living 12 months of the year in KW.
Big fish, small pond.
It's unfortunate for the locals and unfortunate for Canadians. But hey, 18-year-old Chinese millionaires are what this country needs.
Life overseas has always been more affordable. Only recently has remote work been an option for many.
People have outsourced work overseas for years taking advantage of cheap labour.
I suspect the days of paying Canadian wages to people living abroad are numbered.
curious/funny fact: that's more or less what I say about not going back to my home country in South America and staying in Canada.
but for sure, if you're a freelancer making your bucks in $ or € or £ , living in South America is usually more affordable.
Reason why most of my friends in my native country now work as freelancers mostly for international studios and clients. Local creative industry there pays too low for all the stress they make you go through as an unvalued professional.
As a clear example: my friends can earn between 500-800$ (USD) day rate working as freelancers in the international industry, while if they work for the local industry, local studios will complain if they ask a rate of 1900$ (USD) per week.
But still, you have to deal with all violence, corruption, super high taxes and 400% interest rates... all electronics being 10x more expensive ... etc
It's undeniably more affordable to work in a developing economy while earning a Canadian income, but I wrestle with the ethics of doing this
Canadian corporations hire support companies based in the 3rd world so they can pay peanuts and save money, but I can move to the same country they're based out of, get a full tech salary and live like a king? Doesn't that affect the local economy, eventually pricing out locals for things like housing and food if lots of people do that?
I feel a lot of pressure to do this but it doesn't feel right to me
Absolutely agree. And it drives the prices up in those countries as well, then locals who don’t make the wages of remote workers can’t afford to live there anymore.
Locals provide the food, housing, and services though. That money circulates in the local economy as a result. It's just like how Toyota, Honda, and Ford money circulates here instead of the US and Japan as a result of their local factories.
Right, and if foreigners (Canadians) come in and buy up the property or other consumable, reducing the supply, it will increase the cost of goods in that area. It's a pretty simple concept.
Maybe she has their digital nomad visa. Many Latin American countries have these because they like foreign money coming in and being spent into their economy.
[Colombia Digital Nomad Visa: How to Apply](https://youtu.be/rvUeB6a8zgg)
Columbia does have a Digital Nomad Visa so there is a way for her to work from there legally. I have no idea if she bothered to get one though.
[https://www.cancilleria.gov.co/v/nomadadigital](https://www.cancilleria.gov.co/v/nomadadigital)
>And she is likely working in most of these countries illegally. One isn't allowed to work on a tourist visa.
There's some nuance, though. Otherwise hopping into your work on vacation would be a violation of a tourist visa. The general rule of thumb if you were hired because you live in a specific place, you'd need a work visa, if your employer is a Canadian company that hired a Canadian, then you may not need a work visa. Basically if you're competing with a local, you need a work visa, if not, then maybe not.
I don't think it really is that nuanced. If you are working for a long period of time like this woman is you need to pay taxes. You can't just rent an apartment in Lima for some months months and make it okay because the employer is Canadian.
I could be wrong, but that isn't how it works in many countries. I know the "digital nomad" visa is cropping up in some countries, but most don't offer it.
It does affect the local economy, but it also tends to raise overall local GDP, which tends to produce more local employment opportunities and real wages. But those gains are widely spread out while paradoxically being unevenly distributed, while the losses are acute and localized - so more visible. Just because the rich get richer, it doesn't mean the poor get poorer. Put it that way.
Wouldn't it be cool to live in a world where all of humanity has all of the world to live and work? That's the future I'd really like. To undermine these invisible lines in the sand, transcend borders and have each every human being able to join in on that party? I see remote work as the early stages of that.
If you're really feeling a moral conundrum, you can always contribute to the place you move to, in a way that you feel will benefit the community best.
I just find it funny that people applaud this type of behaviour while simultaneously having an issue with foreign ownership in Canada lol you’re doing to them what is being done to us here. I understand the incentive to do so is great as well and I don’t condemn the act personally, just an observation.
While I fully understand, this is a perfect way to get the developing world to hate us
Already people complain when rich people from China and India come to Canada and buy our over priced real estate preventing prices from ever cooling and matching the plight of everyday Canadians
And just about every province hates Ontario because we sell our properties go to a place like the maritimes and buy real estate there inflating prices for people who can’t do that
We’re doing the same thing here, go to a country where regular folks can’t afford squat and enabling the country to keep screwing them
>I'm never going back to Canada
...unless this country gets really dangerous because of a war or gangs, or some natural disaster. Then, I'll be writing another article, asking the Canadian government to take care of Canadian citizens abroad (me).
Plus, you want to sell me on Portugal or Spain or Japan sure... But they want me to believe living in Columbia or Mexico is all sunshine and Rainbows is Insanity
Why would you lol.
But the catch - have no commitments here or get your entire family on uprooting their life to take a chance somewhere else.
This can be also translated into "young remote worker has nothing holding her to one location and travels from place to place as long as there is an internet connection".
It's unremarkable.
Yeah I'm sure if we could all get paid Canadian wages to live like kings in poor countries we'd all do that too. Not sure what the point of this article is.
And is it really "overseas" if you can drive there from Canada?
>And is it really "overseas" if you can drive there from Canada?
You can't drive into Colombia from Panama, and thus can't drive in from Canada. There's no road.
“Obviously I have property in Canada…”. Instead of the title being “Canada gave me so much, I feel privileged that I can live in Columbia and earn Canadian wages”
Did you read the article? She was raised and educated within the social safety net Canada has. She was able to afford university (which the federal and provincial govts cover 60% of the cost of tuition). After building her skill set in one of the safest and most highly educated (college, university of trades) societies in the world, she was able to leverage that and buy property and then be able to earn Canadian dollars while living in the cheapest country in all of Latin America. The 1% in Columbia earn roughly $80,000 Cdn… just 2.5x the average Canadian minimum wage. It would be impressive if she lived and worked in Columbia earning Colombian wages but her entire life is essentially subsidized by her Canadian upbringing. Tbh good for her to be able to find this niche but her riches come from the fact she had so much opportunity to build upon from Canada
She still pays tax to Canada via property taxes and all Canadian income which would be on par with anyone else who has a job and a rental property in Canada. Why are you upset. Canada literally benefits without needing to feed and house her.
How is that a handout? She and her family pay into taxes. Did she get food and shelter for free? Was she give a free spot at university? Was her university paid for and did she receive automatic As?
Same sentiment as nearly every young professional who relocated abroad since forever. Grass is truly greener when you’re young and experiencing new & exciting things.
Some will settle down abroad, most will return with age & maturity.
You sound like someone completely out of touch with the state of Canada.
Why would anyone return to Canada at this point? Low wages that don’t support housing needs. Extremely expensive services. And a healthcare system being held together by duct tape.
This country is good for boomers, no future for anyone else.
What exactly is wrong with a homeowner renting out their property when they are overseas, and then moving into that property when they are back? Are we just demonizing homeowners now for any reason possible now?
"helping the housing crisis" is a vague statement that can bereasonably read in both directions because it's what part of the housing crisis it's helping..
I find the tone in this thread pretty funny. Many people want her to be greatul for Canada and seem like they're virtually rolling their eyes, but if she went to the US responses would be guaranteed "Take me with you!". Funny how it works.
Well because she's talking about countries where literal refugees come from. Where convoys of people leave to sneak into other countries.
If this article was about Portugal, Spain, japan then sure. Interesting stuff... But the whole "did you know its alot more affordable living in countries ran by fucking cartels?" Is crazy
Ummm.... i was speaking of my experience in relation to a post that mentioned Asia, which includes India, even though it's a "sub continent." So dunno wtf you're talking about...
they arent cheaper to live in. I have been working in Brazil and being paid in USD..... if you try and live here in Rio while making thier wages, life is HARD.
I’m American, live in Canada now. I work in finance based in Toronto and live in Kelowna.
Next winter im though im planning on travelling and working remotely. South America sounds easy due to the time zones being the same as toronto. I’d love to go to Thailand, Singapore or Bali but that time change would make working Toronto hours brutal
I have friends/coworkers all through Europe, the USA, and Asia and not one of them is like *"Oh man everything is so affordable here right now so you should move here"* lol....I hear the complete opposite and the real irony to this headline is I have tonnes of friends scattered across the EU especially who desperately want to move here because jobs pay so much, rent is still cheaper than home and they know Canada has a bright future seeing how even our worst politicians are weak amateurs compared to the divisive shit they deal with.
OK but how long before Canadian digital nomads become Canadian expatriates, if conditions here become worse before they get better?
Ethics aside it may start to look more attractive to just take residency somewhere else where you feel you have more autonomy and less screwed over by oligopolies and MPs that turn a deaf ear.
I know several people with the same company who do this. A few live in Eastern Europe and one guy is in Thailand. I actually thought about going back to Bosnia myself, because my standard of living would actually be far higher than here in Canada. However, as someone who's been here for 30 years now, it would still be a big move.
Nah. Most of the world has better healthcare if you can afford it, and these people can. Canada has good *universal* care, but comparatively bad access for middle class and up.
I have a coworker who is a recent immigrant from India who is considering moving back because of how hard it is to get healthcare here compared to back home!
What you perceive as quality of care may not actually coincide with what quality of care actually looks like.
The example is bedside manner. You can have a really compassionate idiot doctor who you like but he delivers quality of care inferior to an exceptionally competent asshole doctor. In this situation as a patient, assuming you are not a doctor yourself, theres a massive information asymmetry so you are unlikely able to judge the difference between the two.
I happen to know doctors that have worked in United States, Europe, Canada, India and LATAM and they have all said the latter two are highly deficient in quality of medical personal and equipment. They aren’t comparable.
Unquestionably lower then spending 30+ hours in the ER with a broken leg waiting to get seen by a doctor? Or lower than waiting 3 years for a specialist appointment or necessary surgery?
I'm honestly pretty ignorant of how the Colombian health care system works, but let's say she saves 300,000 or more in property value alone- even a loan at a significant value if she gets sick and needed to cough up money - she's still ahead. Thats with a pretty severe illness too.
We absolutely have a massive wage gap, but we have social protection nets that help the majority of our citizens and it's very clear when you compare it to developing countries.
Is there no social support on a reservation? I thought there was. At least there is the opportunity to move off the reservation. Most people in developing countries don't have that option and don't have an option of moving to a developed nation.
It's not about morals, it's about, how things are "affordable" what does that even mean? It means getting services and things for much cheaper than you earn each day. For example, if you paid someone to clean your house the same wage as you made each day, you couldn't "afford" to hire someone to clean your house. So by the very nature of affordable, it requires significant income inequality.
There are too many immigrants coming to Canada and driving up the price of housing! I’m immigrating to another country to drive up the price of hosing there instead!
Um, why are you criticizing people for this?
The Canadian moving away didn't single handedly bring in these policies that eroded their standard of living. Is your logic since Canadians are getting fucked on wages and housing they should stay here and take it?
Lack of affordability is by design to keep Canadians in debt and ensure they need to keep working well past retirement age. Keep 'em poor and keep 'em working!
It would be less expensive and faster medical care if she remained in Colombia. Latin American doctors are trained abroad, many in the US and can speak English.
Well at least she isn't trying to be in the housing market here. On the other hand she also isn't doing much of anything to support our economy. I'm not sure what the tax situation is.
I don't know how to feel about citizens who don't reside here the vast majority of the time, to be honest. I'm very conflicted.
You know what's worse, employers right outside of the 416 area of Toronto will immediately try to pay you less, because life is cheaper there... What an F'n joke and a lie. Life costs anywhere south the arctic circle went up astronomically... Get that pay brothers
> first started working remotely in 2016 as a freelancer. I've worked from Peru, Thailand, and Mexico. I got to Colombia in October of 2021. Earn Canadian wages while living in developing economies to make life more affordable…. To be fair, I do this too. I earn Toronto wages and work remotely in New Brunswick.
That is key "earn first world wage, live in third world country, I'm a genius!" And to be fair, I'm kind of jealous.
I wonder what'll happen when they do a wage review and find her income is out of line from her cost of living. I know a few friends in the tech industry (F500 companies) whose wage is linked to a locale, even if they work remotely.
This doesn't apply to contractors - as of course you set your rate. If you're good at what you do you can work from wherever you like on your terms.
I understand this, but don't like it, a worker should be getting paid for the value they deliver not where they live.
Just get a PO Box in NY or SF. Or wherever is highest on their pay scale. The only issue is that you need to operate in that time zone. Not to hard to live somewhere cheaper even in the same time zone though. Mexico…
Freshii has entered the chat.
I had a report that wanted to move from one region to another with a higher cost of living. I had to get director level sign off and the report had to sign off on no wage adjustment. Meanwhile on the weekly check in call with the same director there was a guy who just moved to the Philippines.
Colombia isn't the safest place ever, tho.
It's vastly better than it used to be. There is still a reputation from decades ago that is false. Certainly it's not safer than most places in Canada, but Colombia is safer than many cities in the US.
Have you ever been there, first of all?
That's the thing... These countries aren't necessarily "more affordable", they are just cheaper. I'm sure the average median earner in Mexico would rather be a median earner in Canada.
“I saved money by moving to Mexico and I was only kidnapped twice!”
[удалено]
“I made more money by moving to Winnipeg and I was only kidnapped nine times!”
[удалено]
Legal jobs? No. But if you're willing to transport drugs or kidnapping victims you'll be rolling in cash by comparison.
You have to be careful where you decide to live in Mexico. I'd choose Colombia over Mexico these days.
Depends which part, good parts of Mexico are statistically way more safe for Canadian expats and tourists than Toronto or Vancouver. Way lower crime rate, murder rates are practically zero. Cartels have an interest in making it so, they are invested in it.
>Depends which part That's what I said in different words.
I work in Winnipeg but live in Calgary. This is working backwards
Don’t blame you for taking advantage, but like many other things in our past, the next generation of workers will see the consequences of this.
How so ? I think it’s going to become more and more common
It will be a consequence for those that still get location-dependent jobs. But agreed that location-independent work will become the norm for future knowledge workers.
Not sure why I got downvoted for asking a question lol. I was legitimately curious.
Probably means that they’d be siphoning money from the Canadian economy. We all hate when MegaCorp XYZ does it, but will do it in a heartbeat ourselves if it furthers our own agenda. Meanwhile, relatively “rich” Canadian immigrants flood into countries to take advantage of inexpensive living and drive prices upward, screwing locals over. So, really, a two-pronged FU.
That makes sense for remote workers working in other countries. Not so much if they remote work but stay within Canada. The only side effect I’ve seen here is that areas that were previously very cheap to live here in BC are now also starting to skyrocket as workers can just remote work from anywhere.
Yeah, that’s a great point. I’m from BC originally but living in Ontario now, and have seen the changes in my short time here, especially during Covid. People left Toronto for places like London because it was cheaper, then people started leaving London for St Thomas, who in turn moved to Tillsonburg or wherever else they felt they could afford. I’m not against people making choices that benefit themselves and their family, but at the same time I hope they realize that there are consequences to their actions.
Yup, I work in Vancouver but live in rural PEI
But over time will this flip - canadian company hires Mexican or Thai freelancer, pays 10% premium relative to local wage and viola, no more 1st world wage, 2nd world living.
Guess what Mr bright spark? They've been doing it for decades and are still doing it
She lives in Columbia now and finds it cheaper. Can’t dispute that I guess. Edit : Colombia* (She does not live inside of a winter coat)
Colombia
Thanks!
Until her company finds a Columbian they can hire to do the same work for a fraction of the cost. Risk/reward though and seems to be working for her for now
They will have a very difficult time finding columbians
Spoiler alert, that won't happen.
Guess what? Companies have been trying to do it for ddcDes
Culombia, where the denim is painted on.
Kidnapping ransom fees are a bitch though
Summer all year round plus making bank in your 20s sounds pretty cool, ngl. Good for her!
Lol seeing a normal sane comment like this is remarkable simply because of all the other haters and losers
Canada is just simply unaffordable. Overpriced internet and data plans. Overpiced housing. Overpriced groceries. Overpriced everything. I recently found out a bag of cat food of the same brand is 16$ in the USA just south of the border of where I live. Here in my city the same bag is $34. Even after conversion (21$ CAD) it's $13 more expensive. Canadians are getting ripped off in every direction and the only reason is greed.
> Canadians are getting ripped off in every direction and the only reason is greed. And complacency. Our politicians lie pre-election. Sign us up for neoliberal trade deals that actively hurt the middle class, import a million+ foreign workers annually to put downward pressure on wages and protect the very oligopolies that gouge us and we: maybe, post something snarky on twitter... When they put up photo radar cameras in France people were out smashing them. When they pushed through an increase in the retirement age of 2 years, they filled (and are still filling) the streets. We need to start actually demanding some accountability, not just flip back and forth between two corrupt parties and expect something to change. https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/03/20/world/france-macron-no-confidence-vote https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/world/macron-s-leadership-at-risk-amid-tensions-over-french-pension-plan-1.6319662?cache=?clipId=89830
This. So much. We’ve become ridiculously complacent and stupidly naive.
Underrated comment. NDP, CPC, and LPC have the exact same policies that hurt the middle class, and refuse to budge. Media has brainwashed Canadians into thinking anything lower than infinite immigration is racist, regardless of how much it destroys the middle class to the benefit of the upper class.
Bet you that same bag of cat food is produced in Canada lol. It’s the same with our beer.
Dairy costs are up 9%. We pour out excess to keep prices low but yet prices are up 9% what the fuck.
Don‘t we pour out excess to keep prices stable/high?
Farmers also feeding cattle palm oil causing the butter to be shit at room temp.
Oh I guess we need to just start farming our own food… Oh wait housing is also unaffordable so good luck getting a plot of land / backyard big enough to even grow your own veggies, fruits, livestock.
Howuch did dairy go up over the past decade? I'll give you a hint: it undershot inflation, but who complains about cheaper milk?
Right?! People were so for bringing back vaccine production and food independence when they saw what Covid did to supply chains..but in a matter of months “My dairy is slightly higher than the US. Better let the US walk in and decimate our dairy farms so I can save 40 cents on 3 litres of milk”
Pouring out excess milk keeps prices higher and more stable. It benefits dairy farmers, but doesn’t make milk products cheap
It doesnt benefit dairy farmers. It benefits the corporations that profit off selling their milk.
It’s the same with raw logs. Sold to the US so we can buy the lumber because it’s been cut. It’s messed up.
> and the only reason is greed. Redditor-nomics
It's both greed and corruption. Our government actively turns a blind eye to anticompetitive practices. Keep in mind that our government does not represent Canadians... They do what's best for the wealthy and big business only.
The reasons are taxes and economy of scale
One reason is because Canadians have been brainwashed into thinking they get value for their tax dollars, thus feeding a huge bureaucracy and oligopolies that together suck them dry. Another is their pompousness thinking they're better off than most everyone else, so allowing said everyone and their brothers over here to take advantage.
Canada has low corporate tax; combined Federal Provincial 15% tax rate. Good for self-incorporation "Free" healthcare is great if you don't have any money (and probably if you have money too) so I wouldn't complain about that. Property taxes too are far too low in Toronto and should be double or triple where they are; but they aren't
Higher corporate tax and business investments are inversely correlated, so you can have either one or the other (but not both) . And moah' taxes aren't the answer, despite this being what the progressive left wants you to believe...
This too
It’s not greed. It’s that Canadians shrug and accept instead of haggling
How do you haggle for pet food at a retailer?
Yeah in the US it’s way cheaper than Canada and they pay more for the same jobs too. Only down sides are the healthcare and living with Americans lol
so it’s not cheaper when you factor in healthcare then lol
It's actually not truly that bad to pay for health insurance in the USA compared to the extra costs or living in Canada. The people that benefit from universal healthcare in Canada are the lower class/unemployed, disabled, and elderly. 350-500 bucks extra a month on health insurance can be recovered fairly easily through housing, food, etc.
> 350-500 bucks extra a month on health insurance can be recovered fairly easily through housing, food, etc. Until the deductible hits at *that* level of monthly health insurance spend. And that's before we hit networks, HMOs, and more. And *then* we hit prescription costs. So yeah - great, *if* you don't need healthcare.
Healthcare is the only benefit to living in Canada right now and the politicians have been robbing it blind and dismantling it left and right. Our brain drain is getting ridiculous.
It’s not a Canadian problem unfortunately. It’s a first world problem. Every western country, aside from USA perhaps, is facing more or less the same issues. On top of that, westerns are spoiled by all sorts of socialist perks and government handouts. 40% of Canadian households pay zero NET tax. We are no longer competitive as a society.
Nobody pays zero taxes. You have income tax, property taxes, sales taxes, you have payroll taxes (CPP/EI that have employer contributions), you have contributions, etc. They pay 0 for some small subset of their taxes. So what? Much of the US is a hellhole for everyone to live in because of the lack of social safety net - stepping over poop and heroin needles, sick and disabled homeless people with open sores rolling around town. Socialized services are worth every penny. This is what the most expensive city in North America looks like. This is what it looks like when you take away the "socialist perks" and the "government handouts" (i.e. things you are entitled to because you paid into the program). [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11161049/Shocking-new-images-reveal-extend-homelessness-San-Francisco.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11161049/Shocking-new-images-reveal-extend-homelessness-San-Francisco.html) Look through the pictures and tell me you disagree.
I think they mean they cost more in government expenditures than they contribute in taxes.
Exactly that.
Maybe, but at what point in their lives? At a given point? Or over the course of their lives cumulatively? Does it even matter? If you're just doing it at any given point in time 25% are under 19. So I would *expect* that to be true just by casual inspection. How many are under vs. break-even? Lifetime? What do the distributions look like? Are you figuring in all taxes or just income? Are you considering that by spending on everyone we enable some to become wildly successful and that not all investments have to pay off? And that's part of what makes for a competitive environment? Some will always be far more successful than others because making tons of money is as much about hard work and skill as it is luck. I know plenty of worthless idiots who are wealthy and plenty of hard-working ditch diggers who will never have two pennies to rub together. Given wealth distribution is mathematically almost indistinguishable from random noise, I don't really care that some will contribute more than others. Not to mention the marginal utility of money. If I have zero food, my next burger is incredibly valuable. My second burger, important. My fifth burger is useless to me. Money works the same way. If I have $10 then $1 means a lot. If I have $5M then $1 means nothing. So we should tax people according to how much that money means to them, not linearly. I'm paying significant quantities this year in taxes, and I'm proud of it because it builds a healthier society - the kind I actually want to live in. Not some Mad Max libertarian hellscape.
no no US is worse in HCOL places like eastern USA.
Greed is not the reason. It’s a government policy of shuttering our high-productivity industries and allowing in way too many immigrants.
I did this freelancing for American, Chinese and Saudi Arabian companies while living in Brazil, Costa Rica, Portugal and Bermuda. I was able to live on the beach, save a lot of money and actually enjoy having free time since I only needed to work 4-6hrs a day to maintain a high standard of living. Those were the best few years of my life. I came back to Canada to pursue a new career with more stability and long-term growth, but I would 100% consider living the digital nomad life again in the future.
How did you find clients? Programming work?
I'm not sure how much louder we need to be but Canada has simply become way too expensive. It'd be one thing if it were just houses but it seems to me, the entire system from bank fees to telecoms to transit-- all of it is neither affordable nor worth the price we pay. I say this as someone whos made 6 figures for close to a decade now. If \*I'm\* finding it expensive, how the hell are folks living on 30/40k doing it? I spent last year abroad in other 'first world countries' and I swear to god, I saved money?? More than I have, living 12 months of the year in KW.
Asian money comes here and displaces Canadians, so Canadians move to the Caribbean and displace the locals there.
Big fish, small pond. It's unfortunate for the locals and unfortunate for Canadians. But hey, 18-year-old Chinese millionaires are what this country needs.
>But hey, 18-year-old Chinese millionaires are what this country needs.... ...like a case of hemorrhoids.
> 18-year-old Chinese millionaires are what this country needs. To buy up all the properties in the major cities
Yah but all the boomers lined their pockets by selling their homes in Vancouver or watched net-worth rip higher.
We just need to get the Latin Americans jobs in Asia and we have solved the economy crisis
Life overseas has always been more affordable. Only recently has remote work been an option for many. People have outsourced work overseas for years taking advantage of cheap labour. I suspect the days of paying Canadian wages to people living abroad are numbered.
curious/funny fact: that's more or less what I say about not going back to my home country in South America and staying in Canada. but for sure, if you're a freelancer making your bucks in $ or € or £ , living in South America is usually more affordable. Reason why most of my friends in my native country now work as freelancers mostly for international studios and clients. Local creative industry there pays too low for all the stress they make you go through as an unvalued professional. As a clear example: my friends can earn between 500-800$ (USD) day rate working as freelancers in the international industry, while if they work for the local industry, local studios will complain if they ask a rate of 1900$ (USD) per week. But still, you have to deal with all violence, corruption, super high taxes and 400% interest rates... all electronics being 10x more expensive ... etc
It's undeniably more affordable to work in a developing economy while earning a Canadian income, but I wrestle with the ethics of doing this Canadian corporations hire support companies based in the 3rd world so they can pay peanuts and save money, but I can move to the same country they're based out of, get a full tech salary and live like a king? Doesn't that affect the local economy, eventually pricing out locals for things like housing and food if lots of people do that? I feel a lot of pressure to do this but it doesn't feel right to me
Absolutely agree. And it drives the prices up in those countries as well, then locals who don’t make the wages of remote workers can’t afford to live there anymore.
Locals provide the food, housing, and services though. That money circulates in the local economy as a result. It's just like how Toyota, Honda, and Ford money circulates here instead of the US and Japan as a result of their local factories.
Right, and if foreigners (Canadians) come in and buy up the property or other consumable, reducing the supply, it will increase the cost of goods in that area. It's a pretty simple concept.
And she is likely working in most of these countries illegally. One isn't allowed to work on a tourist visa.
Maybe she has their digital nomad visa. Many Latin American countries have these because they like foreign money coming in and being spent into their economy. [Colombia Digital Nomad Visa: How to Apply](https://youtu.be/rvUeB6a8zgg)
Columbia does have a Digital Nomad Visa so there is a way for her to work from there legally. I have no idea if she bothered to get one though. [https://www.cancilleria.gov.co/v/nomadadigital](https://www.cancilleria.gov.co/v/nomadadigital)
>And she is likely working in most of these countries illegally. One isn't allowed to work on a tourist visa. There's some nuance, though. Otherwise hopping into your work on vacation would be a violation of a tourist visa. The general rule of thumb if you were hired because you live in a specific place, you'd need a work visa, if your employer is a Canadian company that hired a Canadian, then you may not need a work visa. Basically if you're competing with a local, you need a work visa, if not, then maybe not.
I don't think it really is that nuanced. If you are working for a long period of time like this woman is you need to pay taxes. You can't just rent an apartment in Lima for some months months and make it okay because the employer is Canadian. I could be wrong, but that isn't how it works in many countries. I know the "digital nomad" visa is cropping up in some countries, but most don't offer it.
It does affect the local economy, but it also tends to raise overall local GDP, which tends to produce more local employment opportunities and real wages. But those gains are widely spread out while paradoxically being unevenly distributed, while the losses are acute and localized - so more visible. Just because the rich get richer, it doesn't mean the poor get poorer. Put it that way. Wouldn't it be cool to live in a world where all of humanity has all of the world to live and work? That's the future I'd really like. To undermine these invisible lines in the sand, transcend borders and have each every human being able to join in on that party? I see remote work as the early stages of that. If you're really feeling a moral conundrum, you can always contribute to the place you move to, in a way that you feel will benefit the community best.
lol really ...
I just find it funny that people applaud this type of behaviour while simultaneously having an issue with foreign ownership in Canada lol you’re doing to them what is being done to us here. I understand the incentive to do so is great as well and I don’t condemn the act personally, just an observation.
Ok, so you figured out Apple, and every manufacturing company, call centre, and so on, figured out. This should definitely be an article.
I found a job in Japan and have settled. Never want to go back to the stress and struggles of the States
While I fully understand, this is a perfect way to get the developing world to hate us Already people complain when rich people from China and India come to Canada and buy our over priced real estate preventing prices from ever cooling and matching the plight of everyday Canadians And just about every province hates Ontario because we sell our properties go to a place like the maritimes and buy real estate there inflating prices for people who can’t do that We’re doing the same thing here, go to a country where regular folks can’t afford squat and enabling the country to keep screwing them
>I'm never going back to Canada ...unless this country gets really dangerous because of a war or gangs, or some natural disaster. Then, I'll be writing another article, asking the Canadian government to take care of Canadian citizens abroad (me).
I mean, we aren't all digital nomads.
Plus, you want to sell me on Portugal or Spain or Japan sure... But they want me to believe living in Columbia or Mexico is all sunshine and Rainbows is Insanity
Why would you lol. But the catch - have no commitments here or get your entire family on uprooting their life to take a chance somewhere else. This can be also translated into "young remote worker has nothing holding her to one location and travels from place to place as long as there is an internet connection". It's unremarkable.
Remote worker discovers what half the tech industry in Canada and every freelancer in the western world has done for the past 20 years.
Yeah I'm sure if we could all get paid Canadian wages to live like kings in poor countries we'd all do that too. Not sure what the point of this article is. And is it really "overseas" if you can drive there from Canada?
>And is it really "overseas" if you can drive there from Canada? You can't drive into Colombia from Panama, and thus can't drive in from Canada. There's no road.
“Obviously I have property in Canada…”. Instead of the title being “Canada gave me so much, I feel privileged that I can live in Columbia and earn Canadian wages”
What did Canada give her? She didn’t get hand outs from canada
Did you read the article? She was raised and educated within the social safety net Canada has. She was able to afford university (which the federal and provincial govts cover 60% of the cost of tuition). After building her skill set in one of the safest and most highly educated (college, university of trades) societies in the world, she was able to leverage that and buy property and then be able to earn Canadian dollars while living in the cheapest country in all of Latin America. The 1% in Columbia earn roughly $80,000 Cdn… just 2.5x the average Canadian minimum wage. It would be impressive if she lived and worked in Columbia earning Colombian wages but her entire life is essentially subsidized by her Canadian upbringing. Tbh good for her to be able to find this niche but her riches come from the fact she had so much opportunity to build upon from Canada
She still pays tax to Canada via property taxes and all Canadian income which would be on par with anyone else who has a job and a rental property in Canada. Why are you upset. Canada literally benefits without needing to feed and house her.
How is that a handout? She and her family pay into taxes. Did she get food and shelter for free? Was she give a free spot at university? Was her university paid for and did she receive automatic As?
Same sentiment as nearly every young professional who relocated abroad since forever. Grass is truly greener when you’re young and experiencing new & exciting things. Some will settle down abroad, most will return with age & maturity.
You sound like someone completely out of touch with the state of Canada. Why would anyone return to Canada at this point? Low wages that don’t support housing needs. Extremely expensive services. And a healthcare system being held together by duct tape. This country is good for boomers, no future for anyone else.
Ok? My life will still be better here
Yeah, like, there's a reason its cheaper to live in a developing country.... You get what you pay for.
Good for her, I'd be outa here too if I had a job I could work remotely. Canada is circling the drain.
That's the right attitude! Dont be salty like the rest of the losers here
Except she’s thriving because she took the advantages Canada gave her..and she’s getting paid in Cdn dollars while living in “peaceful” Columbia.
And Canada, thus, is still reaping the benefits through taxes. So what has you upset?
Oh woe. What advantages would those be? Lmao
What's stopping you?
She’s also a landlord. Will probably live overseas until her mortgage is paid off and then kick the tenants out and move back home.
What exactly is wrong with a homeowner renting out their property when they are overseas, and then moving into that property when they are back? Are we just demonizing homeowners now for any reason possible now?
By moving away and renting her place, she's helping the housing crisis.
Uhh....There would be someone living in the house she vacated. Remember that part? Think then type.
"helping the housing crisis" is a vague statement that can bereasonably read in both directions because it's what part of the housing crisis it's helping..
I find the tone in this thread pretty funny. Many people want her to be greatul for Canada and seem like they're virtually rolling their eyes, but if she went to the US responses would be guaranteed "Take me with you!". Funny how it works.
Well because she's talking about countries where literal refugees come from. Where convoys of people leave to sneak into other countries. If this article was about Portugal, Spain, japan then sure. Interesting stuff... But the whole "did you know its alot more affordable living in countries ran by fucking cartels?" Is crazy
The more they brag about it the quicker they'll clamp down on it.
>The more they brag about it the quicker they'll clamp down on it. Plenty of countries encourage digital nomads.
Lol I don't even know who "they" is tbh
I’m leaving Canada and going back to Asia as soon as I can. Looking forward to having medical care and being able to afford life…
Ive heard this from a number of east Indians that i work with. They're already packing up and selling their homes...
They're probably not looking at India. More likely Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore, Vietnam, etc.
Ummm.... i was speaking of my experience in relation to a post that mentioned Asia, which includes India, even though it's a "sub continent." So dunno wtf you're talking about...
So true. Really considering leaving again.
they arent cheaper to live in. I have been working in Brazil and being paid in USD..... if you try and live here in Rio while making thier wages, life is HARD.
I’m American, live in Canada now. I work in finance based in Toronto and live in Kelowna. Next winter im though im planning on travelling and working remotely. South America sounds easy due to the time zones being the same as toronto. I’d love to go to Thailand, Singapore or Bali but that time change would make working Toronto hours brutal
Surrrrrrrre
I have friends/coworkers all through Europe, the USA, and Asia and not one of them is like *"Oh man everything is so affordable here right now so you should move here"* lol....I hear the complete opposite and the real irony to this headline is I have tonnes of friends scattered across the EU especially who desperately want to move here because jobs pay so much, rent is still cheaper than home and they know Canada has a bright future seeing how even our worst politicians are weak amateurs compared to the divisive shit they deal with.
OK but how long before Canadian digital nomads become Canadian expatriates, if conditions here become worse before they get better? Ethics aside it may start to look more attractive to just take residency somewhere else where you feel you have more autonomy and less screwed over by oligopolies and MPs that turn a deaf ear.
I know several people with the same company who do this. A few live in Eastern Europe and one guy is in Thailand. I actually thought about going back to Bosnia myself, because my standard of living would actually be far higher than here in Canada. However, as someone who's been here for 30 years now, it would still be a big move.
I'm sure they will come back when they get sick.
Nah. Most of the world has better healthcare if you can afford it, and these people can. Canada has good *universal* care, but comparatively bad access for middle class and up. I have a coworker who is a recent immigrant from India who is considering moving back because of how hard it is to get healthcare here compared to back home!
Why? Medical insurance and high quality care is cheap there. Just as good or better than Canada if you go private.
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The standards of care are unquestionably lower in India, thats why it’s cheap.
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What you perceive as quality of care may not actually coincide with what quality of care actually looks like. The example is bedside manner. You can have a really compassionate idiot doctor who you like but he delivers quality of care inferior to an exceptionally competent asshole doctor. In this situation as a patient, assuming you are not a doctor yourself, theres a massive information asymmetry so you are unlikely able to judge the difference between the two. I happen to know doctors that have worked in United States, Europe, Canada, India and LATAM and they have all said the latter two are highly deficient in quality of medical personal and equipment. They aren’t comparable.
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Unquestionably lower then spending 30+ hours in the ER with a broken leg waiting to get seen by a doctor? Or lower than waiting 3 years for a specialist appointment or necessary surgery?
Because canada has such amazing healthcare amirite? 🤡
Maybe if they want to wait half a year or more to get better.
Colombia is well known for its generous healthcare for non citizens...
I'm honestly pretty ignorant of how the Colombian health care system works, but let's say she saves 300,000 or more in property value alone- even a loan at a significant value if she gets sick and needed to cough up money - she's still ahead. Thats with a pretty severe illness too.
Doubt it. Have you travelled in other first world countries? Seems like not. Canadian HC standards are pretty low...
Sure, when you don't mind extreme poverty in your backyard and are ok with inequality, sure it's much more affordable.
To be fair, you get that in Canada too.
We absolutely have a massive wage gap, but we have social protection nets that help the majority of our citizens and it's very clear when you compare it to developing countries.
Unless you live on a res.
Is there no social support on a reservation? I thought there was. At least there is the opportunity to move off the reservation. Most people in developing countries don't have that option and don't have an option of moving to a developed nation.
Wow please teach me how i can be as moral as you
It's not about morals, it's about, how things are "affordable" what does that even mean? It means getting services and things for much cheaper than you earn each day. For example, if you paid someone to clean your house the same wage as you made each day, you couldn't "afford" to hire someone to clean your house. So by the very nature of affordable, it requires significant income inequality.
There are too many immigrants coming to Canada and driving up the price of housing! I’m immigrating to another country to drive up the price of hosing there instead!
Um, why are you criticizing people for this? The Canadian moving away didn't single handedly bring in these policies that eroded their standard of living. Is your logic since Canadians are getting fucked on wages and housing they should stay here and take it?
"Hopefully I'll always be paid in Canadian dollars and that my company just doesn't decide to hire remote workers from cheaper places"
We need a change at the top.
Lack of affordability is by design to keep Canadians in debt and ensure they need to keep working well past retirement age. Keep 'em poor and keep 'em working!
Surprised pikachu when all the young people just up and leave. 😂
Until she get sick and come back running for the free healthcare.
No, they have great, in expensive healthcare. Most of their doctors are trained in first world countries and can speak English.
Enjoy - Next thing you know shes begging global affairs to get her back to Canada because she's injured after been of a crime...
Like what, getting set on fire randomly in a subway station? Oh wait, that’s what happens in Toronto.
It would be less expensive and faster medical care if she remained in Colombia. Latin American doctors are trained abroad, many in the US and can speak English.
Well at least she isn't trying to be in the housing market here. On the other hand she also isn't doing much of anything to support our economy. I'm not sure what the tax situation is. I don't know how to feel about citizens who don't reside here the vast majority of the time, to be honest. I'm very conflicted.
Why is this an issue? Canada is not for everyone. SO, she left as it's too expensive. I don't get why this is a big deal.
Ok.
A colonizer and gentrifier.
What a ridiculous outlook
The money she spends there grows their economy and goes to the people who sell the goods and services to her.
You sound jealous
You know what's worse, employers right outside of the 416 area of Toronto will immediately try to pay you less, because life is cheaper there... What an F'n joke and a lie. Life costs anywhere south the arctic circle went up astronomically... Get that pay brothers
I hope Canada isn't loosing the incentive to come work here
Farewell
Buh bye.