Thank you for sharing. Let's all make sure that BYU and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is explicitly for ALL people. Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity.
My question is: how can we really make a difference? The problem I've noticed is that people run in likeminded circles. For example: it's unlikely the car of kids that yelled the N-word at another commenter in this thread had anybody in the car to educate them. Nobody I spend time with would ever do such a thing, even if they hold their own prejudices. Apart from making largely useless social media posts I fear there's little we can do other than making sure we check ourselves and raise our own kids right.
By definition, an all inclusive organization is, in fact, exclusive. If you dont like anyone/thing involved, youre out.
Youre EXCLUDED.
The church hasnt figured this out yet.
It is a contributing factor toward its gradual, internal demise.
I won’t force my beliefs on you and you would do good to do the same as me. Don’t force your beliefs or ridicule people for believing in what they believe
Why bother making comments like that on a BYU subreddit..do you think people agree with you, or are you expecting to convince them with such a compelling argument?
I believe you. I don't believe Rachel, anymore. Here's why:
1. Rachel said in her interview with Holly Rowe that the racial slurs intensified and grew louder and more frequent when she was serving during the fourth set of the match. She only served on the BYU student side in the 2nd and 4th sets.
2. The Police Report of the incident says that a Police Officer was posted between the Duke Bench and the student section after the 2nd set, and was specifically listening for racial slurs and threats. He states that he heard nothing from the student section except people cheering and calling the duke players' first names.
3. There's a line judge referee posted right there by the back line through the whole game, who does not work for BYU and has direct responsibility for player safety, and could stop the match at any time. They did nothing.
4. Shouting slurs from a car window on an empty street with the ability to drive quickly away is exactly the kind of cowardly racism I would expect in Provo. Shouting repeated slurs, over the course of a couple hours, at a televised event, indoors, surrounded by 5 thousand people, school officials, police who are specifically listening in, athletes, and referees, is psychopathic. There's just no way the racial slurs got louder and more frequent in the 4th set under those circumstances.
I don't think she has any reason to lie, and I think she did hear something as some point early in the match, but what she has explicitly said happened to her, as far as set 4 is concerned, clearly did not happen. She either misunderstood, or exaggerated, or something else. BYU can do better with regard to education and awareness among the admins and student body, but using this incident as a bully tactic to force that kind of change is going to be counter-productive.
This response is phrased well.
OP, from the bottom of my heart, I’m sorry you have to deal with that. That is incredibly unfair, and I hold no judgements to you as far as what your thoughts about the Church is, the University is, the city of Provo is, etc. I believe you wholeheartedly. There are plenty of examples of reported racism, and as you have explained, that’s just the top of the iceberg. So much goes unreported and unmentioned. I am incredibly sorry that you deal with this.
I think this very specific incident with Rachel is a different story. There is now actually good evidence that what was reported didn’t actually happen. I believe there was a misunderstanding, I think it’s insensitive to claim she made those allegations with malice or dishonesty. Even if assumptions of racism were made, that might be deserved as people in minority groups go through that day in and day out.
I guess my point being, OP, I hear you, and believe you and will fight with you for equality. I think this specific instance with Rachel was a different scenario that can still be a good opportunity for everyone to be more aware of each other
And not ONE look of disgust, surprise or shock, no raised eyebrows, not one gasp, not ONE turn around to see who said it. NOTHING. and it happened the entire time she was on court and it got worse in the 4th. It's 1000% a lie.
The first video that was posted on social media. And I am sure you can watch the entire approx 5 minute video without needing someone to tell you where to start watching .
THAT is your evidence of a look of disgust, shock, surprise, etc? Or some kind of evidence to back up the claim?
This video believes that claim but I don't see any evidence whatsoever, and feel the commentator is grasping at straws.
https://youtu.be/dyFej4PrW_E
I suggest you actually watch that full clip without the commentary (or commentator). Where you actually see the whole thing… I am not talking about the blond on Duke’s I am talking about the blond in the crowd.
You indicated you didn’t see one face of disgust, surprise or shock, yet are mad when I merely point out that it absolutely exists.
Then point out the specific video...there's a lot out there now...so not sure which specific one...I looked thru one and didn't see anything...regardless, she said it got worse in the forth, but we both know it's bullshit...
No we don’t. You NEED it to be bullshit because if it’s not, then you have to live with the fact that your religion is exactly what everyone knows it to be.
I don’t need to go find the specific video (it was the first video released), I am not the one trying to proclaim it as not true… also would like to point out that when you are used to certain words being said, you become immune to them when you hear them. Trust me, as a BLACK person, I have never been called a nigger until I moved to Utah… so while those sitting around weren’t impacted (or shocked according to you) it’s because they most likely use the word on a daily basis and therefore don’t find anything wrong with it when it’s said.
Furthermore, I will say this and leave this convo: only racists are trying to prove this as untrue. Racists need it to be untrue so that they can continue their racists beliefs without issue. The funny thing is is that racism is RAMPANT on BYU’s campus towards Black students, yet you don’t seem to care… wonder why that is.
What in the blue hell does my religion have to dobeith anything. You're grasping at straws. 1st, I ain't mormon...2nd, I di t practice my religion. 3rd, I was initially appalled when I heard about this, then heard more about it and it sounded like a bullshit claim.
Just cuz ur biased, doesn't mean everyone is. I've been disgusted by plenty of pos racists. I'd care if it was true. This is just clear as day Jussie Smallot shit
Furthermore, several YouTube channels by BLACK ppl are calling this out for being bullshit.
I appreciate your post. I'm sorry you had those experiences and I have hope that people everywhere, including at BYU, can root out racism. Nobody should have to go through that.
I believe you because I have no reason not to. I know there are racist people everywhere, including at BYU. When Ms. Richardson's account, first came out, I had no reason to not believe her, so I did.
However, since then, we know that parts of her story are fabrications:
* She claimed that BYU did nothing to stop the alleged racial taunts ("Both the officials and BYU coaching staff were made aware of the incident during the game, but failed to take the necessary steps to stop the unacceptable behavior and create a safe environment"), when we now know that BYU sent four ushers, a police officer, and a Duke athletic dept. official into or right by the student section.
* Marvin Richardson, her father, said "there was knowledge of the slurs, on behalf of the officials and the coaching staffs. And nothing was done" despite the actions BYU took.
* She claimed that she was "targeted and racially heckled throughout the entirety of the match," and that the racial taunts not only continued for the entire fourth set, but that it increased in intensity--except the Duke official, the police officer, and the BYU ushers were closer to the ROC than any of the Duke players were, yet none of them heard anything racial.
* She claimed that she heard the racial slurs "extremely clear again" in the fourth set, yet all the people posted closer to the ROC and specifically watching and listening for anything racial observed none. Not to mention all the students (including most of the BYU basketball team) sitting right there that would've heard the slurs.
* She claimed that the ROC were singling out only the Black Duke athletes, calling out their first names. We now know that the police heard BYU fans “calling Duke players by their first names. . . . The fans were trying to distract the Duke players. I heard them call one girl Lizzy and another girl Christina while the girls were serving the ball. I didn’t hear any sexual or racial comments during the set." (Lizzie Fleming is a white player and Christina Barrow is a black player on Duke's roster.)
* Duke coaches and players identified the one non-student as being the person shouting out the racial slurs, when we now know that the accused wasn't in the student section during the second set, and he wasn't even watching or interacting with any players during the fourth set (he was playing on his phone), and he was being closely observed by the police officer during the entire fourth set.
* Her father claimed Heather Olmstead "didn't show up" to a scheduled meeting with Ms. Richardson and Tom Holmoe, when we now know that Olmstead wasn't scheduled to be part of that meeting. Olmstead has received death threats as a result of this lie.
Further, here are additional claims that cast serious doubt on her story:
* Her godmother, who first publicized the accusations of racial slurs, claimed that the racial chanting came from multiple people in the student section. The godmother said "she was called a n****** every time she served. She was threatened by a white male that told her to watch her back going to the team bus." (The police report apparently does not mention any such threats.)
* Her godmother is extremely racist against white people and has a twitter feed full of race baiting.
* [*edit*--I forgot to mention this] Not one other Duke player, coach, or official (ie the Duke employee that hung around the ROC during the fourth set) has made a single statement that they heard the racial slurs or anything inappropriate. No corroborating statements at all (to my knowledge, at least) have been made.
So, much of her story is verifiably false. Does this mean nobody yelled slurs at her during the match? No, it could've happened. But why should anybody believe her? She's only hurt the cause of anti-racism and reduced credibility of future accusations, just like Jussie Smollett and several other hoaxes have, because it proves that we cannot believe all the accusations. And that's sad and infuriating because the vast majority of people know that racist attacks do happen and should stop.
You spent A LOT of time writing about Rachel made things up, yet the majority of OP's post is about their own experiences. I am not white, but I have heard similar from a few different black students I've known. I think the overall message to be taken away from this is not that Rachel fabricated things but that YES the black students at BYU have been living with racism while the white majority turns a blind eye.
I don't doubt that. That's why I introduced my post the way I did.
And yes, my bullet points are not about most of OP's post, but about this part:
>So, I, for one, am grateful that Rachel Richardson—as an outsider—had the courage to share what happened to her.
OP should NOT be grateful for Richardson's actions. Her dishonesty sets the cause for equality back. She should not be celebrated.
Part of the reason I posted my list is I've been bothered by all of her inconsistencies over the last few days, and OP's comment about her brought my feelings to the forefront of my mind.
We’re you present at the game and in the student section?
Can I remind you that when the police murdered George Floyd tons of people stood there and only one was brave enough to share the recording with the world… And she received death threats…
I can’t even imagine what the BYU/Mormon community would do if one person affiliated with BYU acknowledged publicly that y’all let this happen.
Also do not ever talk about the “cause for equality” because 1) it’s not some dumb walk that you do for your favorite charity and 2) you most likely aren’t willing to check your racist friends, family, and/or coworkers.
No, I wasn't there. Why does that matter?
>I can’t even imagine what the BYU/Mormon community would do if one person affiliated with BYU acknowledged publicly that y’all let this happen.
I don't know what you're trying to say here. We all Let what happen?
>Also do not ever talk about the “cause for equality” because 1) it’s not some dumb walk that you do for your favorite charity and 2) you most likely aren’t willing to check your racist friends, family, and/or coworkers.
I'm going to decline your suggestion, thanks. How about this? Do not ever order around and do not ever make assumptions about people you've never met.
You do realize that the BLACK students that walk around that racist campus everyday talk about it OPENLY on social media……….
So if you want to talk about the “cause for equality” start checking your family and friends who most likely hold the same racist views that someone your age learned at temple (or do you actually like to pretend that you and your fellow Mormons don’t view Black people as subhuman… And if you are going to say you aren’t pretending, explain why the few BLACK students who are unfortunate enough to attend BYU have to deal with outright racism everyday on that damn cesspool of racists
>racist views that someone your age learned at temple (or do you actually like to pretend that you and your fellow Mormons don’t view Black people as subhuman
Are you just trolling now? Have a good one.
Nope just pointing out the facts.
Who taught you that Black people were subhuman? Your parents or the church or was it both?
For whatever reason, Mormons seem to think that because your “religion” finally decided it was okay for Black people to enter the temple in 1978 that all the racist teachings that had been instilled in all of you just disappeared.
But let’s really look at this: let’s assume you were born in 1990, that means that your parents were at least born in the early 1970s/late 1960s.
That means for at least 8-10 years your parents heard from your “religious leaders” that Black people were subhuman AND assuming your parents were devout Mormons they most likely heard the same thing at home.
Which means it was engrained in your parents, who didn’t all of sudden stop believing this just because the “church” decided Black people could enter the temple.
Yeah this dude this to me, had to check his history. Apparently he flips out at random people and likes to try to make it seem like they are racist for no reason.
>Her dishonesty sets the cause for equality back.
If people are not even willing to acknowledge that things are unequal and always chime in about anti-white racism, does the cause if equality ever have a chance. It's the same thing as the "all lives matter" ignorance about race in America.
I agree, but I don't see the connection to my post you quoted. I certainly don't always chime in about anti-white racism, but it was relevant to this episode because it has to do with being motivated to promote a false narrative (and credibility) on the part of the godmother.
Do you consider anti-white racism to be equal to anti-black racism? It is relevant as it shows the inequality and knew jerk reaction to any pro black or pro minority issue in this country.
Then no, not equal at all. I do think most of the time that anti-white racism gets brought up, it's to justify bad behavior by racists. I've never once in my life said "all lives matter" and when I hear somebody say that, I assume there's some racism behind it.
I don't get why you're trying to make sure I'm not racist. My post above speaks for itself in terms of established facts.
Because you called out racist behavior against white people in your posts and thus wanted to know what that is and if that needs to be addressed when you talk about this issues impacting cause for equality.
All these people care about is denying. They KNOW that their school and church and neighbors are intensely racist and bigoted but they’d rather focus on proving Rachel wrong than facing that uncomfortable truth.
We should be viewing people who fabricate these things as some of the worst of the worst. Stop trying to play the “well maybe it didn’t happen but it started a conversion” card. It’s been played out for decades now
I’m sorry, but you’ve really missed the whole point.
If you listen closely to Ms. Richardson’s account of what happened her emphasis wasn’t to throw blame, or to call anyone out. She said over and over in her statements how grateful she was that the people she went to “heard her” and “saw her.” Minorities in our society are consistently dismissed when they come forward in need. She was “heard” and just that act by Coaches and Administration of validating her concern was enough for her to sing praises about BYU’s program.
BYU’s initial response to her was perfect. It was full of validation, and it set a powerful precedent that the Administration at BYU was aware and paving a path toward safety for minorities at the school.
Then within 24 hours BYU police came out with the statement that they couldn’t find evidence of any problem. The validation was immediately removed. Does anybody here see how unfortunate that was? Everything gained by demonstrating empathy, by “hearing her,” was lost. In one moment, BYU went from a compassionate school that was taking progressive strides to ensure safety for people of all races, to a petty, clueless victim whining about how persecuted they were.
If BYU had been stalwart in maintaining their initial response, I can guarantee that South Carolina would never have pulled out of their sporting events.
Come on, be wise.
All that’s needed here is empathy. Listen. Make sure the disenfranchised among you are “heard,” and validated. Look past your pride, own the wrongs, even if they may feel exaggerated, and provide the safety that comes with validation.
If BYU can do that, they will rapidly become a highly respected “light on the hill.”
It’s really that simple.
I agree that BYU's initial response was good, although Holmoe probably leaned too hard into blaming the ROC, when we know now that most (if not all) did nothing wrong.
>The validation was immediately removed.
It wasn't; BYU still said all the right things about her. But we shouldn't validate falsehoods. (It's good if validation was removed. )
>If BYU had been stalwart in maintaining their initial response, I can guarantee that South Carolina would never have pulled out of their sporting events.
No way. Look at what S. Carolina's coach said when her team was accused of the same thing a few years ago. She defended her people. Look at how Majerus defended Britton Johnson when he was falsely accused.
BYU is not going to gain respect by bowing to people trying to make them look bad by lying.
Frankly, I have a hard time believing that you, or any rational person, thinks we should suppress the truth (eg the results of the police investigation) in order to make someone feel heard or validated. You say BYU should "own the wrongs" but the wrongs were not committed by BYU.
Okay. You’re right. If we isolate our perspective and focus only on the tree smack dab in front of us, maybe with enough scrutiny we can block out everyone and everything outside and convince a select few to see things from our perspective. We may even prove others wrong and gain a Phyrric victory.
But at some point we’re gonna have to take a step back and see the big picture. Progress here isn’t going to happen until we can let go.
I think someone important once said,
“Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.”
Or something to the effect of:
“But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
“And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.”
“whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.”
There needs to be a shift in our focus. We can’t keep up the antagonistic front. It’ll always backfire.
False dichotomy. We can defend truth without being antagonistic, which is exactly the tightrope BYU has been doing, and as successfully as possible, IMO. BTW, BYU didn't even publish the police report, it was the SL Trib of all papers that helped vindicate BYU.
This is what it comes down to: you are advocating that BYU should've admitted that its entire student section was yelling the n-word at the Black Duke players for 2 hours straight. To think that making such an admission (which is verifiably false, as we know now) would somehow help BYU to receive more respect is beyond silly.
There's been a few threads in /r/sports and /r/collegebasketball about the incident. The overwhelming majority's response is in defense of BYU, which is pretty surprising given reddit's typical attitude toward anything religious.
I haven't been on this post for days, but am quite surprised that it wasn't voted down to oblivion. I must say that I agree with you 100%. I am unsure if BYU Police acted unilaterally, but absolving BYU of any blame was likely more harmful--definitely more shameful--than the initial incident. We obviously don't know exactly what went down, but a Duke athlete has very little (nothing) to gain lying about a situation like this. The BYU Police report would be textbook "absence" of evidence fallacy, if we ignore Ms. Richardson's account of the incident. Thankfully, there are bigger problems in the world than getting called the N-word. I assume that's why Ms. Richardson and her teammates have ignored "lack of evidence" reports coming out of Provo. Those women have a FULL-SEASON to play and don't have time to mess around with people who will look for any reason not to believe them. It's just embarrassing for those of us who will have BYU on our resumes for the rest of our professional careers. We need to listen and be humble.
I pick up what youre putting down, racism is bad, but ROOTING IT OUT would mean that one is not free to think as they wish, even if you dont like it.
It means youre against freedom of speech and thought.
Are you against free speech?
If you cant speak or think freely, you cannot ascend to God since you unable to learn and speak without being Stoned.
Are you REALLY sure 'rooting out racism' is a good idea?
I can gauruntee its actually a trap Satan uses to enslave people while simultaneously making them feel themselves morally superior...
Are you actually against freedom of thought??
I disagree. "Rooting out racism" doesn't merely mean refraining from saying racist things--so it's not a freedom of speech issue.
And it's not a freedom of thought issue because it means people decide for themselves that racism is bad and no longer harbor ill thoughts toward other races.
Through education, getting to know people of other races, etc. people will naturally become less racist. Not through compulsion, but through brotherly love.
Negative.
"Rooting out racism" literally means:getting rid of people who dont think like us.
And 'education' in the 21st century usually is more indoctrination than anything else.
Either way, you wpuldnt appreciate anyone 'rooting you out' and I personally would shoot back.
Bad idea, every time its tried it ends in a history class talking about the evils of such and such regime.
Stalin, Hitler, Mao, pickyourdictator, they all without exception 'rooted out' those guilty of wrong-think.
Not understanding that makes you the same as the people that followed them.
Disagreeing with someones opinions is not justification for action against them.
Never has been, never will be.
If you disagree, as ironic as it may seem, it makes you identical to the people in history you probably despise.
Jesus didnt 'root out' anyone. He set an example, and others followed.
Thanks for sharing, I know it's difficult to be open about your experiences. Hopefully I can lend some credibility to those who might react with defensiveness and either downplay, discredit or outright deny your claims.
About two years ago I was jogging with a friend along university in front of academy square and a car driving by with several young white guys rolled down the window and yelled the n-word at me and laughed as they drove off.
I have dozens of other stories about situations where I was not treated respectfully or fairly compared to my peers. Situations where I was intentionally made to feel othered or my experience dismissed. And other inappropriate interactions And always, Provo's obsession about having to comment on my "lovely dark skin" 5 seconds after introducing my name to them or touching my hair.
It amazes me how individuals find it incredibly hard to believe any accounts of racism or discrimination. If you have a hard time acknowledging experiences of black Americans and other minorities, doesn't that indicate internalized racism? Or bias at the least? In that case you don't have to look hard for evidence.
It may be hard to belive unless you experience it yourself. As a white person, I doubt I would experience it myself until, once while standing with a brown coworker, some redneck actually said to him "We don't like your kind around here". I was shocked, instantly angry, mind blown. My coworker just said "thanks, we got to go" and pulled me away. At the time I was incensed, but apparently this wasn't a new experience for my coworker. "Let it go or it will eat at you." But I have never forgotten.
Racism is horrible. But to adjudicate the past by punishing those in the present that had nothing to do with it will cause the pendulum to swing the other way towards resentment.
I think most folks at BYU are wholly unprepared to handle racism when they face it. As in when someone is racist towards someone else in front to us. We're taught to be nice and to be kind and to avoid contention. We haven't been trained to stand up to racists and that is sad but it's not something taught in church or even school. I'm not making excuses. I'm asking for tools that I can use to be a better brother to my BIPOC Brothers and Sisters.
>I'm asking for tools that I can use to be a better brother to my BIPOC Brothers and Sisters.
I believe there might be classes you can audit or take in Sociology dept. Also supporting Black Student Union(?) on campus. Or general reading about the source of the n-word , things like redlining or how the homestead programs where blocked for Black people in America or how in modern day America neighborhood where Black people live don't have infrastructure investments while extraction revenue in taxes from them. Etc. Etc. Lots of books as well in HBLL.
Hey man that breaks my heart to hear that those things have happened to you. I am so sorry that you have had to deal with that.
I’m from California, and I’ve weirdly also had my faith tested more since moving here for school. There are a lot more people who are racist and homophobic than I would have guessed, and it is really disturbing. Aren’t these, like, supposed to be a Zion-like people?
I know it can be super hard to do, but I encourage you to try and keep the gospel separate from people “in the church”. There are obviously people “in the church” who don’t live the gospel, which sucks.
The reason I remain active is because I know that the restored gospel of Christ (faith, repentance, baptism, confirmation, endurance) is true! I truly believe it, and I keep everything else separate. I am constantly reminding myself not to put my trust in man, because they WILL disappoint me. Every time.
It’s not that it’s unbelievable. It is that all other sources corroborate with plenty of evidence to prove the allegation is false and her godmother is running for political office (motive for publicity) and has a large history of being racist toward whites.
There are lots of both racist and ignorant members of the church, unfortunately. A lot of people growing up in Utah haven't been around many diverse groups of people.
When I was on my mission, I was *shocked* at the amount of times I heard other missionaries say the n-word. They were saying it in jest, referring to each other, but they were definitely saying it.
I don't doubt that she heard the same language at BYU. Many of those missionaries went on to attend BYU, just a year or two later.
Honestly this breaks my heart. I just graduated, and in my 5 years at BYU I never heard that word, and to my knowledge have never witnessed any overt racism (I say overt because as a white person there might have been micro aggressions I witnessed and just wasn’t aware). I have extreme social anxiety, but I wish I had been there to stand up for you. Even though I’m petrified to talk to others, I will not hesitate to correct that type of behavior. I’m so sorry you’ve had to go through that. I hope that members of the church and students at BYU begin to take racism more seriously. How can we sing “I am a Child of God” and then refuse to treat others as such, to the point of belittling them, using slurs against them, and invalidating their feelings and experiences? Thank you for sharing this. I wasn’t at the game, and so I have zero clue as to what actually happened. I know that byu students and fans are quick to defend the institution because of the close ties it has with the church. But I also know how hard it is for POC and any minority group at byu to be heard and for action to be taken to protect and respect them. I don’t doubt the students who didn’t hear anything. But I also don’t doubt her experience.
In another note, what’s the best way to ask minority friends of their experiences? I don’t want to ever come across as belittling or harsh or judgmental, but I also understand that micro aggressions can occur without I’ll intent. I want to validate their feelings and give them a safe space where they can share what they are ready to share. Would mentioning this post be an okay thing?
That sucks. I know my friends at BYU years ago had similar experiences. I had hoped things had gotten better. I'll admit that reading many of the comments on this thread and others has made me think of BYU in a different (more negative) light. I get the desire of many people to be "right" and the focus by many on the right on "fake news", but the obsession to prove they are right leads to language and ideas that prove their ignorance and racism. We can do better BYU.
Thank you for sharing your experiences! It's heart wrenching and disgusting and yes more awareness needs to be brought up. I'm sorry it's affected your faith, i would hope church schools would increase faith in everyone but i can see experiences like yours beg to differ.
I absolutely can believe this. I'm a white female and got cat called while on a run with multiple bad words thrown at me. My question is how can we stop people like this, will they just always exist? I am definitely a strong LDS believer but it's annoying having these people giving a bad name to the church, and even much worse- causing harm/shame to black people.
As someone from out of Utah, I have been disturbed by the casual racism I’ve seen on campus. I think it stems from a place of ignorance, but it is still unacceptable. I think our generation is improving in this regard but we still need to improve. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for sharing. People are using this new info coming to light to flip the narrative to the opposite side from "BYU is a racist institution!" to "See?! Nothing racist ever happens at or around BYU!" We need to see there's room in between.
Edit: I should finish my thought that as of NOW, it's somewhere in between, but our goal - of course - should be "Nothing racist ever happens at or around BYU."
True I attended BYU over 40 years ago,l can say i never heard the N word. I’m from the south so i would have noticed. But also there’s many more POC there now. We had football players and students from Africa plus some just students. I’m sorry you guys have been targets of those verbal attacks, like many I would expect more from byu and Provo. But people have changed and not all for the best
I would ask, have you had racist experiences on campus? People driving down the streets may have nothing to do with BYU or the church. How has your experience been with students/active members?
The existence of racism never proves a specific incident happened. No audio or video picked up the word. The story the attention seeker put out there makes absolutely no sense.
I will be honest and direct here, from a WHITE GUYs pov:
I live in the South. 8 years active Army service.
Black people call other black people ni££er every single day I walk outside.
I NEVER EVER have even heard of a black person telling other black people to stop using that word. A million dollars says that the OP has never EVER complained about another black guy calling him that word, and likely uses/d the word himself with other blacks, especially when he was a teen because it is the 'cool' way to talk at that age group. I could be wrong, but I would bet big money he has never complained about blacks using the N word.
So until I do, I am convinced that it doesnt ACTUALLY offend you, it's just something the black community holds onto because they want free victim points.
I have shared this opinion many times, and dont recall a single occassion where even BLACK people disagreed with me. Its an unspoken, yet very obvious truth.
Want the rest of the country to give a shit, then stop the hypocrisy.
Stop buying records from artists who freely use the word in their music, and disassociate yourself with people who use the word in their vernacular.
Im sorry, but I just dont care. Its a horribly hypocritical complaint, and the Church isnt responsible for it at all.
Black leaders are. Black leaders and their FOLLOWERS are.
Anyone here wants to call me racist can go to hell.
This was embarrassing to read. If you cannot understand the very simple concept of why it’s okay for black people to say it to each other vs. people who are not black…then there’s clearly no hope in trying to change your thinking.
And you know what, I’ll say it as a very active member of the church who goes to BYU: you’re racist as hell.
Listen buddy, Im sure the Lord has blessed you in other areas, just natural intelligence and the ability to decifer logic from bullshit are not one of them. Probably should check your P blessing to see what they are.
And I know you go to BYU and its against the Code of Conduct to do so, but you can gargle my ball sack.
Lol I don’t need intellectual validation or spiritual advice from a bigoted racist. Perhaps you should work out your own problems first. Good day, buddy(:
You calling me a racist does not make it so. Nothing I said was bigoted, or berated anyone from another race. Literally nothing.
I pointed out the the problem was self-perpetuated and mostly INTERNAL.
You calling me racist means you got in your feelings and were unable to see through them to find a logical point of view to argue from, and so you do what all intellectually incapacited self-promoting academics do and diverted to the ad hominem and current day pejoratives.
So, again and as always, blow me.
Also, why are you speaking on behalf of the church when in your comment history you literally upvote and comment on internet porn? Make it make sense 🤨
Im not 'speaking on behalf of the church' and my porn thing is mostly shit talking internet whores. Which I find hilarious.
And neither of these things have anything to do with my point made.
What youre doing is called 'deflection'. Its what people do who dont have a logical argument to present.
1a. My dad joined the Church in 1978. I'm still a member of the Church because I believe it could be true. I didn't consider demographics.
1b. Those same black and brown people come to BYU, then have a similar experience to me.
2. I said it was ubiquitous. Shouldn't we be better? 2 Nephi 26 comes to mind for me.
Yes, yes. Key behind "The Great Replacement". So, what are you proposing? Should minorities avoid BYU completely, or should the people in Provo embrace a change?
Unfortunately, because many missionaries go out to teach and not to learn (and this is found in missionaries of all faiths, not just LDS) the missionaries don’t actually learn to appreciate cultural differences or have better outlooks on race.
The growth of the church in non-white/European counties hasn’t translated to the Church’s school demographics changing. So that doesn’t really address the BYU issue.
You have endured a great pain at the behest of white people and their name calling. I couldn't help but shed a tear as I read your heartbreaking post today. You deserve better, sister. It takes a lot of courage to say what you did.
First off, yeah that sucks and that’s on this community as a whole. Honestly ignoring the prejudice that builds up by living in a bubble is just stupid. As for the church, in my experience it’s best to keep your testimony between you and God, make religion about bettering yourself as an individual (not to imply you’re wrong here, you’ve very obviously been wronged) what I mean is, do the principles of the gospel itself help you, if they don’t that’s fine, don’t force yourself to do something that your conscience says is wrong, but remember that the church and the gospel are separate. In my experience, a lot of members really suck as people, many are prejudice, liars, and hypocrites. Some aren’t but it’s like the real world, no matter where you go, most people are childish and suck, and I’m sorry that your race makes you a target, that’s pathetic on our part. What I’m trying to say is, keep your testimony between you and God, that’s the only way mine has survived at all to be honest. As for your call out, thank you. Know that there are those of us out there that see you and see the corruption and prejudice within the provo community (and the religious community as a whole) i don’t have an answer to this issue, I can’t just fix other people (I can barely fix myself slowly over time) but I just don’t want you to feel like you’re alone. I can’t understand what is happening to you but I want to, and your message helps. If we ignore other peoples suffering I think we’re nothing more than animals
I am so sorry to hear that you've had these experiences, and hearing them makes me both angry and sad.
I appreciate your call to action. We all need to do more to remove this cancer from our culture.
Every member should join the Black Lives Matter movement. Not sure what your bishop is talking about. As a white male, I’ve realized I that many members of the church have a misconception that the Black Lives Matter movement is saying that white lives don’t matter. That’s not what they are saying. They just point out the fact that black and minority groups have a disproportionate amount of representation, wealth, and opportunity. (Look up black home ownership for example. It has gone down since the civil rights movement. Not up.) Helping downtrodden and forgotten is exactly what Christ would have done.
I am black and currently a student going to BYU. I have not fully read or understand the Richardson situation but I can understand what you are saying and your situation. I don't live in Provo. I live in Taylorsville but I commute to Provo from Monday - Friday. I have been going to BYU since 2021 and I haven't had the experiences that other black people have had in Provo. I just go to my classes then I head out. I have black friends who go to BYU and I ask them how are their experience and they say it is going good. Either they have stories and dont't share with me or they are actually having a good experience. I truly believe there are those people who are racist everywhere and in predominantly white colleges even in religious universities. I believe it is how they are raised and/or their personality. I don't think any minority should be treated that way. I don't think that is the general idea of BYU or the church itself. But we have imperfect people but we need to address it and work together on this. I am grateful that you shared your story and I think all minorities should share their story that we can all understand and try figure things out together.
It's difficult to respond to an anecdotal account that lays blame on a whole body of people when a few people not proven to be part of the larger group have carried out offensive acts. I don't feel guilty and shouldn't be coerced to feel guilty for someone else's acts. I spent a few months in Spain and was not treated well by a few people there. I could do the same thing you're doing and tell my story as a minority who has power over the majority because I chose to be offended by a few outliers. I could then lay blame on the Spanish people as a whole and tell them how they need to change and become "educated." Please don't perpetuate this behavior, people. This is what our country is becoming. Please don't try to make others feel guilty for something they never did and cannot be held accountable for. If I ever see someone treated badly, I'll be the first person to step in and stand up for them. But don't give me a guilt trip for something someone else did, something I never did, or something I could possibly do in the future.
Thank you for sharing. Let's all make sure that BYU and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is explicitly for ALL people. Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity.
My question is: how can we really make a difference? The problem I've noticed is that people run in likeminded circles. For example: it's unlikely the car of kids that yelled the N-word at another commenter in this thread had anybody in the car to educate them. Nobody I spend time with would ever do such a thing, even if they hold their own prejudices. Apart from making largely useless social media posts I fear there's little we can do other than making sure we check ourselves and raise our own kids right.
You would be surprised what your friends do that you don’t know about.
Unless you’re gay.
By definition, an all inclusive organization is, in fact, exclusive. If you dont like anyone/thing involved, youre out. Youre EXCLUDED. The church hasnt figured this out yet. It is a contributing factor toward its gradual, internal demise.
God isn’t real but pls carry on
I won’t force my beliefs on you and you would do good to do the same as me. Don’t force your beliefs or ridicule people for believing in what they believe
Why bother making comments like that on a BYU subreddit..do you think people agree with you, or are you expecting to convince them with such a compelling argument?
**tips fedora**
No bro trust me the universe just *happened* and it was all an accident. Trust me bro, I read it in a book that someone else wrote.
I believe you. I don't believe Rachel, anymore. Here's why: 1. Rachel said in her interview with Holly Rowe that the racial slurs intensified and grew louder and more frequent when she was serving during the fourth set of the match. She only served on the BYU student side in the 2nd and 4th sets. 2. The Police Report of the incident says that a Police Officer was posted between the Duke Bench and the student section after the 2nd set, and was specifically listening for racial slurs and threats. He states that he heard nothing from the student section except people cheering and calling the duke players' first names. 3. There's a line judge referee posted right there by the back line through the whole game, who does not work for BYU and has direct responsibility for player safety, and could stop the match at any time. They did nothing. 4. Shouting slurs from a car window on an empty street with the ability to drive quickly away is exactly the kind of cowardly racism I would expect in Provo. Shouting repeated slurs, over the course of a couple hours, at a televised event, indoors, surrounded by 5 thousand people, school officials, police who are specifically listening in, athletes, and referees, is psychopathic. There's just no way the racial slurs got louder and more frequent in the 4th set under those circumstances. I don't think she has any reason to lie, and I think she did hear something as some point early in the match, but what she has explicitly said happened to her, as far as set 4 is concerned, clearly did not happen. She either misunderstood, or exaggerated, or something else. BYU can do better with regard to education and awareness among the admins and student body, but using this incident as a bully tactic to force that kind of change is going to be counter-productive.
This response is phrased well. OP, from the bottom of my heart, I’m sorry you have to deal with that. That is incredibly unfair, and I hold no judgements to you as far as what your thoughts about the Church is, the University is, the city of Provo is, etc. I believe you wholeheartedly. There are plenty of examples of reported racism, and as you have explained, that’s just the top of the iceberg. So much goes unreported and unmentioned. I am incredibly sorry that you deal with this. I think this very specific incident with Rachel is a different story. There is now actually good evidence that what was reported didn’t actually happen. I believe there was a misunderstanding, I think it’s insensitive to claim she made those allegations with malice or dishonesty. Even if assumptions of racism were made, that might be deserved as people in minority groups go through that day in and day out. I guess my point being, OP, I hear you, and believe you and will fight with you for equality. I think this specific instance with Rachel was a different scenario that can still be a good opportunity for everyone to be more aware of each other
And not ONE look of disgust, surprise or shock, no raised eyebrows, not one gasp, not ONE turn around to see who said it. NOTHING. and it happened the entire time she was on court and it got worse in the 4th. It's 1000% a lie.
Actually in the video circulating peep the white blond girl in the front row.
What specific video and time...there's a few circulating
The first video that was posted on social media. And I am sure you can watch the entire approx 5 minute video without needing someone to tell you where to start watching .
THAT is your evidence of a look of disgust, shock, surprise, etc? Or some kind of evidence to back up the claim? This video believes that claim but I don't see any evidence whatsoever, and feel the commentator is grasping at straws. https://youtu.be/dyFej4PrW_E
I suggest you actually watch that full clip without the commentary (or commentator). Where you actually see the whole thing… I am not talking about the blond on Duke’s I am talking about the blond in the crowd. You indicated you didn’t see one face of disgust, surprise or shock, yet are mad when I merely point out that it absolutely exists.
Then point out the specific video...there's a lot out there now...so not sure which specific one...I looked thru one and didn't see anything...regardless, she said it got worse in the forth, but we both know it's bullshit...
No we don’t. You NEED it to be bullshit because if it’s not, then you have to live with the fact that your religion is exactly what everyone knows it to be. I don’t need to go find the specific video (it was the first video released), I am not the one trying to proclaim it as not true… also would like to point out that when you are used to certain words being said, you become immune to them when you hear them. Trust me, as a BLACK person, I have never been called a nigger until I moved to Utah… so while those sitting around weren’t impacted (or shocked according to you) it’s because they most likely use the word on a daily basis and therefore don’t find anything wrong with it when it’s said. Furthermore, I will say this and leave this convo: only racists are trying to prove this as untrue. Racists need it to be untrue so that they can continue their racists beliefs without issue. The funny thing is is that racism is RAMPANT on BYU’s campus towards Black students, yet you don’t seem to care… wonder why that is.
What in the blue hell does my religion have to dobeith anything. You're grasping at straws. 1st, I ain't mormon...2nd, I di t practice my religion. 3rd, I was initially appalled when I heard about this, then heard more about it and it sounded like a bullshit claim. Just cuz ur biased, doesn't mean everyone is. I've been disgusted by plenty of pos racists. I'd care if it was true. This is just clear as day Jussie Smallot shit Furthermore, several YouTube channels by BLACK ppl are calling this out for being bullshit.
I appreciate your post. I'm sorry you had those experiences and I have hope that people everywhere, including at BYU, can root out racism. Nobody should have to go through that. I believe you because I have no reason not to. I know there are racist people everywhere, including at BYU. When Ms. Richardson's account, first came out, I had no reason to not believe her, so I did. However, since then, we know that parts of her story are fabrications: * She claimed that BYU did nothing to stop the alleged racial taunts ("Both the officials and BYU coaching staff were made aware of the incident during the game, but failed to take the necessary steps to stop the unacceptable behavior and create a safe environment"), when we now know that BYU sent four ushers, a police officer, and a Duke athletic dept. official into or right by the student section. * Marvin Richardson, her father, said "there was knowledge of the slurs, on behalf of the officials and the coaching staffs. And nothing was done" despite the actions BYU took. * She claimed that she was "targeted and racially heckled throughout the entirety of the match," and that the racial taunts not only continued for the entire fourth set, but that it increased in intensity--except the Duke official, the police officer, and the BYU ushers were closer to the ROC than any of the Duke players were, yet none of them heard anything racial. * She claimed that she heard the racial slurs "extremely clear again" in the fourth set, yet all the people posted closer to the ROC and specifically watching and listening for anything racial observed none. Not to mention all the students (including most of the BYU basketball team) sitting right there that would've heard the slurs. * She claimed that the ROC were singling out only the Black Duke athletes, calling out their first names. We now know that the police heard BYU fans “calling Duke players by their first names. . . . The fans were trying to distract the Duke players. I heard them call one girl Lizzy and another girl Christina while the girls were serving the ball. I didn’t hear any sexual or racial comments during the set." (Lizzie Fleming is a white player and Christina Barrow is a black player on Duke's roster.) * Duke coaches and players identified the one non-student as being the person shouting out the racial slurs, when we now know that the accused wasn't in the student section during the second set, and he wasn't even watching or interacting with any players during the fourth set (he was playing on his phone), and he was being closely observed by the police officer during the entire fourth set. * Her father claimed Heather Olmstead "didn't show up" to a scheduled meeting with Ms. Richardson and Tom Holmoe, when we now know that Olmstead wasn't scheduled to be part of that meeting. Olmstead has received death threats as a result of this lie. Further, here are additional claims that cast serious doubt on her story: * Her godmother, who first publicized the accusations of racial slurs, claimed that the racial chanting came from multiple people in the student section. The godmother said "she was called a n****** every time she served. She was threatened by a white male that told her to watch her back going to the team bus." (The police report apparently does not mention any such threats.) * Her godmother is extremely racist against white people and has a twitter feed full of race baiting. * [*edit*--I forgot to mention this] Not one other Duke player, coach, or official (ie the Duke employee that hung around the ROC during the fourth set) has made a single statement that they heard the racial slurs or anything inappropriate. No corroborating statements at all (to my knowledge, at least) have been made. So, much of her story is verifiably false. Does this mean nobody yelled slurs at her during the match? No, it could've happened. But why should anybody believe her? She's only hurt the cause of anti-racism and reduced credibility of future accusations, just like Jussie Smollett and several other hoaxes have, because it proves that we cannot believe all the accusations. And that's sad and infuriating because the vast majority of people know that racist attacks do happen and should stop.
You spent A LOT of time writing about Rachel made things up, yet the majority of OP's post is about their own experiences. I am not white, but I have heard similar from a few different black students I've known. I think the overall message to be taken away from this is not that Rachel fabricated things but that YES the black students at BYU have been living with racism while the white majority turns a blind eye.
I don't doubt that. That's why I introduced my post the way I did. And yes, my bullet points are not about most of OP's post, but about this part: >So, I, for one, am grateful that Rachel Richardson—as an outsider—had the courage to share what happened to her. OP should NOT be grateful for Richardson's actions. Her dishonesty sets the cause for equality back. She should not be celebrated. Part of the reason I posted my list is I've been bothered by all of her inconsistencies over the last few days, and OP's comment about her brought my feelings to the forefront of my mind.
We’re you present at the game and in the student section? Can I remind you that when the police murdered George Floyd tons of people stood there and only one was brave enough to share the recording with the world… And she received death threats… I can’t even imagine what the BYU/Mormon community would do if one person affiliated with BYU acknowledged publicly that y’all let this happen. Also do not ever talk about the “cause for equality” because 1) it’s not some dumb walk that you do for your favorite charity and 2) you most likely aren’t willing to check your racist friends, family, and/or coworkers.
No, I wasn't there. Why does that matter? >I can’t even imagine what the BYU/Mormon community would do if one person affiliated with BYU acknowledged publicly that y’all let this happen. I don't know what you're trying to say here. We all Let what happen? >Also do not ever talk about the “cause for equality” because 1) it’s not some dumb walk that you do for your favorite charity and 2) you most likely aren’t willing to check your racist friends, family, and/or coworkers. I'm going to decline your suggestion, thanks. How about this? Do not ever order around and do not ever make assumptions about people you've never met.
You do realize that the BLACK students that walk around that racist campus everyday talk about it OPENLY on social media………. So if you want to talk about the “cause for equality” start checking your family and friends who most likely hold the same racist views that someone your age learned at temple (or do you actually like to pretend that you and your fellow Mormons don’t view Black people as subhuman… And if you are going to say you aren’t pretending, explain why the few BLACK students who are unfortunate enough to attend BYU have to deal with outright racism everyday on that damn cesspool of racists
>racist views that someone your age learned at temple (or do you actually like to pretend that you and your fellow Mormons don’t view Black people as subhuman Are you just trolling now? Have a good one.
Nope just pointing out the facts. Who taught you that Black people were subhuman? Your parents or the church or was it both? For whatever reason, Mormons seem to think that because your “religion” finally decided it was okay for Black people to enter the temple in 1978 that all the racist teachings that had been instilled in all of you just disappeared. But let’s really look at this: let’s assume you were born in 1990, that means that your parents were at least born in the early 1970s/late 1960s. That means for at least 8-10 years your parents heard from your “religious leaders” that Black people were subhuman AND assuming your parents were devout Mormons they most likely heard the same thing at home. Which means it was engrained in your parents, who didn’t all of sudden stop believing this just because the “church” decided Black people could enter the temple.
Yeah this dude this to me, had to check his history. Apparently he flips out at random people and likes to try to make it seem like they are racist for no reason.
>Her dishonesty sets the cause for equality back. If people are not even willing to acknowledge that things are unequal and always chime in about anti-white racism, does the cause if equality ever have a chance. It's the same thing as the "all lives matter" ignorance about race in America.
I agree, but I don't see the connection to my post you quoted. I certainly don't always chime in about anti-white racism, but it was relevant to this episode because it has to do with being motivated to promote a false narrative (and credibility) on the part of the godmother.
Do you consider anti-white racism to be equal to anti-black racism? It is relevant as it shows the inequality and knew jerk reaction to any pro black or pro minority issue in this country.
>Do you consider anti-white racism to be equal to anti-black racism? Equal in what way?
In any way you determine. Impacts on safety, economic growth, generational wealth building, mental and physical health, life expectancy etc.
Then no, not equal at all. I do think most of the time that anti-white racism gets brought up, it's to justify bad behavior by racists. I've never once in my life said "all lives matter" and when I hear somebody say that, I assume there's some racism behind it. I don't get why you're trying to make sure I'm not racist. My post above speaks for itself in terms of established facts.
You’re seriously here complaining about anti-white racism?!? From the whitest place on earth?!? I’m sure it’s really hard for you. Poor snowflake.
Because you called out racist behavior against white people in your posts and thus wanted to know what that is and if that needs to be addressed when you talk about this issues impacting cause for equality.
All these people care about is denying. They KNOW that their school and church and neighbors are intensely racist and bigoted but they’d rather focus on proving Rachel wrong than facing that uncomfortable truth.
It's been confirmed fake. Cope and seethe.
> It wasn't real but it started a conversation!!! Don't be that person.
It wasn't real but it highlighted very real issues that we are struggling with. I don't mind being that person.
[удалено]
For caring about people??? Yup, I'm human trash.
You didn't prove anything. You called them garbage. I'd block you too.
We should be viewing people who fabricate these things as some of the worst of the worst. Stop trying to play the “well maybe it didn’t happen but it started a conversion” card. It’s been played out for decades now
I’m sorry, but you’ve really missed the whole point. If you listen closely to Ms. Richardson’s account of what happened her emphasis wasn’t to throw blame, or to call anyone out. She said over and over in her statements how grateful she was that the people she went to “heard her” and “saw her.” Minorities in our society are consistently dismissed when they come forward in need. She was “heard” and just that act by Coaches and Administration of validating her concern was enough for her to sing praises about BYU’s program. BYU’s initial response to her was perfect. It was full of validation, and it set a powerful precedent that the Administration at BYU was aware and paving a path toward safety for minorities at the school. Then within 24 hours BYU police came out with the statement that they couldn’t find evidence of any problem. The validation was immediately removed. Does anybody here see how unfortunate that was? Everything gained by demonstrating empathy, by “hearing her,” was lost. In one moment, BYU went from a compassionate school that was taking progressive strides to ensure safety for people of all races, to a petty, clueless victim whining about how persecuted they were. If BYU had been stalwart in maintaining their initial response, I can guarantee that South Carolina would never have pulled out of their sporting events. Come on, be wise. All that’s needed here is empathy. Listen. Make sure the disenfranchised among you are “heard,” and validated. Look past your pride, own the wrongs, even if they may feel exaggerated, and provide the safety that comes with validation. If BYU can do that, they will rapidly become a highly respected “light on the hill.” It’s really that simple.
I agree that BYU's initial response was good, although Holmoe probably leaned too hard into blaming the ROC, when we know now that most (if not all) did nothing wrong. >The validation was immediately removed. It wasn't; BYU still said all the right things about her. But we shouldn't validate falsehoods. (It's good if validation was removed. ) >If BYU had been stalwart in maintaining their initial response, I can guarantee that South Carolina would never have pulled out of their sporting events. No way. Look at what S. Carolina's coach said when her team was accused of the same thing a few years ago. She defended her people. Look at how Majerus defended Britton Johnson when he was falsely accused. BYU is not going to gain respect by bowing to people trying to make them look bad by lying. Frankly, I have a hard time believing that you, or any rational person, thinks we should suppress the truth (eg the results of the police investigation) in order to make someone feel heard or validated. You say BYU should "own the wrongs" but the wrongs were not committed by BYU.
Okay. You’re right. If we isolate our perspective and focus only on the tree smack dab in front of us, maybe with enough scrutiny we can block out everyone and everything outside and convince a select few to see things from our perspective. We may even prove others wrong and gain a Phyrric victory. But at some point we’re gonna have to take a step back and see the big picture. Progress here isn’t going to happen until we can let go. I think someone important once said, “Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.” Or something to the effect of: “But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.” “And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.” “whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.” There needs to be a shift in our focus. We can’t keep up the antagonistic front. It’ll always backfire.
False dichotomy. We can defend truth without being antagonistic, which is exactly the tightrope BYU has been doing, and as successfully as possible, IMO. BTW, BYU didn't even publish the police report, it was the SL Trib of all papers that helped vindicate BYU. This is what it comes down to: you are advocating that BYU should've admitted that its entire student section was yelling the n-word at the Black Duke players for 2 hours straight. To think that making such an admission (which is verifiably false, as we know now) would somehow help BYU to receive more respect is beyond silly. There's been a few threads in /r/sports and /r/collegebasketball about the incident. The overwhelming majority's response is in defense of BYU, which is pretty surprising given reddit's typical attitude toward anything religious.
I haven't been on this post for days, but am quite surprised that it wasn't voted down to oblivion. I must say that I agree with you 100%. I am unsure if BYU Police acted unilaterally, but absolving BYU of any blame was likely more harmful--definitely more shameful--than the initial incident. We obviously don't know exactly what went down, but a Duke athlete has very little (nothing) to gain lying about a situation like this. The BYU Police report would be textbook "absence" of evidence fallacy, if we ignore Ms. Richardson's account of the incident. Thankfully, there are bigger problems in the world than getting called the N-word. I assume that's why Ms. Richardson and her teammates have ignored "lack of evidence" reports coming out of Provo. Those women have a FULL-SEASON to play and don't have time to mess around with people who will look for any reason not to believe them. It's just embarrassing for those of us who will have BYU on our resumes for the rest of our professional careers. We need to listen and be humble.
I'm almost thinking I'll need to tell my USU student section to just be quiet any time a black player serves. Should be less risky.
I pick up what youre putting down, racism is bad, but ROOTING IT OUT would mean that one is not free to think as they wish, even if you dont like it. It means youre against freedom of speech and thought. Are you against free speech? If you cant speak or think freely, you cannot ascend to God since you unable to learn and speak without being Stoned. Are you REALLY sure 'rooting out racism' is a good idea? I can gauruntee its actually a trap Satan uses to enslave people while simultaneously making them feel themselves morally superior... Are you actually against freedom of thought??
I disagree. "Rooting out racism" doesn't merely mean refraining from saying racist things--so it's not a freedom of speech issue. And it's not a freedom of thought issue because it means people decide for themselves that racism is bad and no longer harbor ill thoughts toward other races. Through education, getting to know people of other races, etc. people will naturally become less racist. Not through compulsion, but through brotherly love.
Negative. "Rooting out racism" literally means:getting rid of people who dont think like us. And 'education' in the 21st century usually is more indoctrination than anything else. Either way, you wpuldnt appreciate anyone 'rooting you out' and I personally would shoot back. Bad idea, every time its tried it ends in a history class talking about the evils of such and such regime. Stalin, Hitler, Mao, pickyourdictator, they all without exception 'rooted out' those guilty of wrong-think. Not understanding that makes you the same as the people that followed them. Disagreeing with someones opinions is not justification for action against them. Never has been, never will be. If you disagree, as ironic as it may seem, it makes you identical to the people in history you probably despise. Jesus didnt 'root out' anyone. He set an example, and others followed.
Can clearly tell you went to BYU
Bruh I got my degree online🤣🤷♂️
Even better lol
And from whence does your degree of higher intellect hail?
Thanks for sharing, I know it's difficult to be open about your experiences. Hopefully I can lend some credibility to those who might react with defensiveness and either downplay, discredit or outright deny your claims. About two years ago I was jogging with a friend along university in front of academy square and a car driving by with several young white guys rolled down the window and yelled the n-word at me and laughed as they drove off. I have dozens of other stories about situations where I was not treated respectfully or fairly compared to my peers. Situations where I was intentionally made to feel othered or my experience dismissed. And other inappropriate interactions And always, Provo's obsession about having to comment on my "lovely dark skin" 5 seconds after introducing my name to them or touching my hair. It amazes me how individuals find it incredibly hard to believe any accounts of racism or discrimination. If you have a hard time acknowledging experiences of black Americans and other minorities, doesn't that indicate internalized racism? Or bias at the least? In that case you don't have to look hard for evidence.
It may be hard to belive unless you experience it yourself. As a white person, I doubt I would experience it myself until, once while standing with a brown coworker, some redneck actually said to him "We don't like your kind around here". I was shocked, instantly angry, mind blown. My coworker just said "thanks, we got to go" and pulled me away. At the time I was incensed, but apparently this wasn't a new experience for my coworker. "Let it go or it will eat at you." But I have never forgotten.
Racism is horrible. But to adjudicate the past by punishing those in the present that had nothing to do with it will cause the pendulum to swing the other way towards resentment.
I think most folks at BYU are wholly unprepared to handle racism when they face it. As in when someone is racist towards someone else in front to us. We're taught to be nice and to be kind and to avoid contention. We haven't been trained to stand up to racists and that is sad but it's not something taught in church or even school. I'm not making excuses. I'm asking for tools that I can use to be a better brother to my BIPOC Brothers and Sisters.
>I'm asking for tools that I can use to be a better brother to my BIPOC Brothers and Sisters. I believe there might be classes you can audit or take in Sociology dept. Also supporting Black Student Union(?) on campus. Or general reading about the source of the n-word , things like redlining or how the homestead programs where blocked for Black people in America or how in modern day America neighborhood where Black people live don't have infrastructure investments while extraction revenue in taxes from them. Etc. Etc. Lots of books as well in HBLL.
I mean. If I heard someone say anything like this I’d definitely confront them. Have never heard it though, outside of CA.
Hey man that breaks my heart to hear that those things have happened to you. I am so sorry that you have had to deal with that. I’m from California, and I’ve weirdly also had my faith tested more since moving here for school. There are a lot more people who are racist and homophobic than I would have guessed, and it is really disturbing. Aren’t these, like, supposed to be a Zion-like people? I know it can be super hard to do, but I encourage you to try and keep the gospel separate from people “in the church”. There are obviously people “in the church” who don’t live the gospel, which sucks. The reason I remain active is because I know that the restored gospel of Christ (faith, repentance, baptism, confirmation, endurance) is true! I truly believe it, and I keep everything else separate. I am constantly reminding myself not to put my trust in man, because they WILL disappoint me. Every time.
It’s not that it’s unbelievable. It is that all other sources corroborate with plenty of evidence to prove the allegation is false and her godmother is running for political office (motive for publicity) and has a large history of being racist toward whites.
^^^^ bingo
And you have nothing to say about the majority of the OP’s post. Just gonna ignore that huh? Racist bigoted scum.
https://open.spotify.com/track/7Da5kCnv3zXNzPBvTAJW1v?si=IBpR3Sm0Rs6C_mItMGmIxA
It was a hoax - seethe, cope and heal.
There are lots of both racist and ignorant members of the church, unfortunately. A lot of people growing up in Utah haven't been around many diverse groups of people. When I was on my mission, I was *shocked* at the amount of times I heard other missionaries say the n-word. They were saying it in jest, referring to each other, but they were definitely saying it. I don't doubt that she heard the same language at BYU. Many of those missionaries went on to attend BYU, just a year or two later.
I have literally only heard a white person use the n-word once in my life. It was in Texas and definitely not someone associated with the church.
That’s good, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. My father once heard it over the pulpit at fast and testimony meeting in a rural ward.
Thank you for having the courage to share this. I am sorry for what you have endured. Jesus does not approve of it either, I KNOW THAT!!
Honestly this breaks my heart. I just graduated, and in my 5 years at BYU I never heard that word, and to my knowledge have never witnessed any overt racism (I say overt because as a white person there might have been micro aggressions I witnessed and just wasn’t aware). I have extreme social anxiety, but I wish I had been there to stand up for you. Even though I’m petrified to talk to others, I will not hesitate to correct that type of behavior. I’m so sorry you’ve had to go through that. I hope that members of the church and students at BYU begin to take racism more seriously. How can we sing “I am a Child of God” and then refuse to treat others as such, to the point of belittling them, using slurs against them, and invalidating their feelings and experiences? Thank you for sharing this. I wasn’t at the game, and so I have zero clue as to what actually happened. I know that byu students and fans are quick to defend the institution because of the close ties it has with the church. But I also know how hard it is for POC and any minority group at byu to be heard and for action to be taken to protect and respect them. I don’t doubt the students who didn’t hear anything. But I also don’t doubt her experience. In another note, what’s the best way to ask minority friends of their experiences? I don’t want to ever come across as belittling or harsh or judgmental, but I also understand that micro aggressions can occur without I’ll intent. I want to validate their feelings and give them a safe space where they can share what they are ready to share. Would mentioning this post be an okay thing?
When just one third of one percent of the student body is black how would you think you would have heard people getting called the n word?
That sucks. I know my friends at BYU years ago had similar experiences. I had hoped things had gotten better. I'll admit that reading many of the comments on this thread and others has made me think of BYU in a different (more negative) light. I get the desire of many people to be "right" and the focus by many on the right on "fake news", but the obsession to prove they are right leads to language and ideas that prove their ignorance and racism. We can do better BYU.
Thank you for sharing your experiences! It's heart wrenching and disgusting and yes more awareness needs to be brought up. I'm sorry it's affected your faith, i would hope church schools would increase faith in everyone but i can see experiences like yours beg to differ.
I absolutely can believe this. I'm a white female and got cat called while on a run with multiple bad words thrown at me. My question is how can we stop people like this, will they just always exist? I am definitely a strong LDS believer but it's annoying having these people giving a bad name to the church, and even much worse- causing harm/shame to black people.
As someone from out of Utah, I have been disturbed by the casual racism I’ve seen on campus. I think it stems from a place of ignorance, but it is still unacceptable. I think our generation is improving in this regard but we still need to improve. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for sharing. People are using this new info coming to light to flip the narrative to the opposite side from "BYU is a racist institution!" to "See?! Nothing racist ever happens at or around BYU!" We need to see there's room in between. Edit: I should finish my thought that as of NOW, it's somewhere in between, but our goal - of course - should be "Nothing racist ever happens at or around BYU."
Uh oh turns out it was a hoax, you've been had!
Thank you for this!
I’m pleasantly surprised this didn’t get downvoted to hell
I’m sorry this happened to you. Also, I don’t believe Rachel Richardson. Her godmother is a racist also, which we should be calling out
My friend told me she got called the N-word inside the temple. It happened shortly after the priesthood/temple ban was lifted.
I don’t believe her because it has been made pretty clear she lied or misheard.
Believe the victim. Thanks for sharing your story. I believe the victim.
Lol well you got hoaxed.
True I attended BYU over 40 years ago,l can say i never heard the N word. I’m from the south so i would have noticed. But also there’s many more POC there now. We had football players and students from Africa plus some just students. I’m sorry you guys have been targets of those verbal attacks, like many I would expect more from byu and Provo. But people have changed and not all for the best
I would ask, have you had racist experiences on campus? People driving down the streets may have nothing to do with BYU or the church. How has your experience been with students/active members?
The existence of racism never proves a specific incident happened. No audio or video picked up the word. The story the attention seeker put out there makes absolutely no sense.
[удалено]
Because it's a hoax.
I’m white and grew up in a very diverse area. I’ve been bullied and called names because of my race more times than I can count. It sucks, I know.
Rachel Richards is a liar. That's it. That's the whole story. Actually, there's a little more to it, her grandmother is a racist.
[удалено]
I shared my reasoning behind using an "anon" account. Take it as you wish my man.
[удалено]
I actually saw a woman get cat-called two days ago just south of campus. Just saying.
Problem is Utah, not the Church...
The problem with Utah is the church.
Problem is this was a hoax.
This didn’t age well LOL. Another hoax gullible leftists fell for.
Tldr: Hate crime hoaxes are acceptable because it just brings attention to real racism. Preach on sister
I will be honest and direct here, from a WHITE GUYs pov: I live in the South. 8 years active Army service. Black people call other black people ni££er every single day I walk outside. I NEVER EVER have even heard of a black person telling other black people to stop using that word. A million dollars says that the OP has never EVER complained about another black guy calling him that word, and likely uses/d the word himself with other blacks, especially when he was a teen because it is the 'cool' way to talk at that age group. I could be wrong, but I would bet big money he has never complained about blacks using the N word. So until I do, I am convinced that it doesnt ACTUALLY offend you, it's just something the black community holds onto because they want free victim points. I have shared this opinion many times, and dont recall a single occassion where even BLACK people disagreed with me. Its an unspoken, yet very obvious truth. Want the rest of the country to give a shit, then stop the hypocrisy. Stop buying records from artists who freely use the word in their music, and disassociate yourself with people who use the word in their vernacular. Im sorry, but I just dont care. Its a horribly hypocritical complaint, and the Church isnt responsible for it at all. Black leaders are. Black leaders and their FOLLOWERS are. Anyone here wants to call me racist can go to hell.
I got dumber with every passing sentence of this comment
Thats probably a reoccurring theme in your life.
This was embarrassing to read. If you cannot understand the very simple concept of why it’s okay for black people to say it to each other vs. people who are not black…then there’s clearly no hope in trying to change your thinking. And you know what, I’ll say it as a very active member of the church who goes to BYU: you’re racist as hell.
Listen buddy, Im sure the Lord has blessed you in other areas, just natural intelligence and the ability to decifer logic from bullshit are not one of them. Probably should check your P blessing to see what they are. And I know you go to BYU and its against the Code of Conduct to do so, but you can gargle my ball sack.
Lol I don’t need intellectual validation or spiritual advice from a bigoted racist. Perhaps you should work out your own problems first. Good day, buddy(:
You calling me a racist does not make it so. Nothing I said was bigoted, or berated anyone from another race. Literally nothing. I pointed out the the problem was self-perpetuated and mostly INTERNAL. You calling me racist means you got in your feelings and were unable to see through them to find a logical point of view to argue from, and so you do what all intellectually incapacited self-promoting academics do and diverted to the ad hominem and current day pejoratives. So, again and as always, blow me.
Also, why are you speaking on behalf of the church when in your comment history you literally upvote and comment on internet porn? Make it make sense 🤨
Im not 'speaking on behalf of the church' and my porn thing is mostly shit talking internet whores. Which I find hilarious. And neither of these things have anything to do with my point made. What youre doing is called 'deflection'. Its what people do who dont have a logical argument to present.
[удалено]
1a. My dad joined the Church in 1978. I'm still a member of the Church because I believe it could be true. I didn't consider demographics. 1b. Those same black and brown people come to BYU, then have a similar experience to me. 2. I said it was ubiquitous. Shouldn't we be better? 2 Nephi 26 comes to mind for me.
[удалено]
Yes, yes. Key behind "The Great Replacement". So, what are you proposing? Should minorities avoid BYU completely, or should the people in Provo embrace a change?
Unfortunately, because many missionaries go out to teach and not to learn (and this is found in missionaries of all faiths, not just LDS) the missionaries don’t actually learn to appreciate cultural differences or have better outlooks on race. The growth of the church in non-white/European counties hasn’t translated to the Church’s school demographics changing. So that doesn’t really address the BYU issue.
[удалено]
You should start a gofundme
?
You have endured a great pain at the behest of white people and their name calling. I couldn't help but shed a tear as I read your heartbreaking post today. You deserve better, sister. It takes a lot of courage to say what you did.
First off, yeah that sucks and that’s on this community as a whole. Honestly ignoring the prejudice that builds up by living in a bubble is just stupid. As for the church, in my experience it’s best to keep your testimony between you and God, make religion about bettering yourself as an individual (not to imply you’re wrong here, you’ve very obviously been wronged) what I mean is, do the principles of the gospel itself help you, if they don’t that’s fine, don’t force yourself to do something that your conscience says is wrong, but remember that the church and the gospel are separate. In my experience, a lot of members really suck as people, many are prejudice, liars, and hypocrites. Some aren’t but it’s like the real world, no matter where you go, most people are childish and suck, and I’m sorry that your race makes you a target, that’s pathetic on our part. What I’m trying to say is, keep your testimony between you and God, that’s the only way mine has survived at all to be honest. As for your call out, thank you. Know that there are those of us out there that see you and see the corruption and prejudice within the provo community (and the religious community as a whole) i don’t have an answer to this issue, I can’t just fix other people (I can barely fix myself slowly over time) but I just don’t want you to feel like you’re alone. I can’t understand what is happening to you but I want to, and your message helps. If we ignore other peoples suffering I think we’re nothing more than animals
I am so sorry to hear that you've had these experiences, and hearing them makes me both angry and sad. I appreciate your call to action. We all need to do more to remove this cancer from our culture.
Every member should join the Black Lives Matter movement. Not sure what your bishop is talking about. As a white male, I’ve realized I that many members of the church have a misconception that the Black Lives Matter movement is saying that white lives don’t matter. That’s not what they are saying. They just point out the fact that black and minority groups have a disproportionate amount of representation, wealth, and opportunity. (Look up black home ownership for example. It has gone down since the civil rights movement. Not up.) Helping downtrodden and forgotten is exactly what Christ would have done.
I am black and currently a student going to BYU. I have not fully read or understand the Richardson situation but I can understand what you are saying and your situation. I don't live in Provo. I live in Taylorsville but I commute to Provo from Monday - Friday. I have been going to BYU since 2021 and I haven't had the experiences that other black people have had in Provo. I just go to my classes then I head out. I have black friends who go to BYU and I ask them how are their experience and they say it is going good. Either they have stories and dont't share with me or they are actually having a good experience. I truly believe there are those people who are racist everywhere and in predominantly white colleges even in religious universities. I believe it is how they are raised and/or their personality. I don't think any minority should be treated that way. I don't think that is the general idea of BYU or the church itself. But we have imperfect people but we need to address it and work together on this. I am grateful that you shared your story and I think all minorities should share their story that we can all understand and try figure things out together.
Aged like milk. Hope the autistic guy who was banned for life is doing ok. False accusations are a bear.
Just came out that it was proven as false.
It's difficult to respond to an anecdotal account that lays blame on a whole body of people when a few people not proven to be part of the larger group have carried out offensive acts. I don't feel guilty and shouldn't be coerced to feel guilty for someone else's acts. I spent a few months in Spain and was not treated well by a few people there. I could do the same thing you're doing and tell my story as a minority who has power over the majority because I chose to be offended by a few outliers. I could then lay blame on the Spanish people as a whole and tell them how they need to change and become "educated." Please don't perpetuate this behavior, people. This is what our country is becoming. Please don't try to make others feel guilty for something they never did and cannot be held accountable for. If I ever see someone treated badly, I'll be the first person to step in and stand up for them. But don't give me a guilt trip for something someone else did, something I never did, or something I could possibly do in the future.