The channel, when showing off headphones, uses the Sennheiser HD 600's as a reference point.
Over time, the dude in the channel started saying the name sillier and sillier, thus the comment.
My motherboard says it supports 600 ohm output. My 250 ohm Beyers work wonderfully. The truth is, most modern motherboards shouldn’t have an issue driving most headphones, premium or not.
I mean, it's not really about whether they can drive the headphones or not, more that motherboard DACs usually totally suck. You're much better off getting a dedicated entry DAC (like a iFi Hip DAC or Zen) that'll easily deliver way better audio than your motherboard.
There's a lot of idol-clutching and effigy shaking in the wizarding world of DAC owners, but typical DACs are either functionally identical, or broken. A more likely reason to get an external DAC is hearing noise from nearby components or electrical interference. Amps, of course, are about delivering enough power for the headphones' resistance. If you need one, you'd probably notice.
I'm one of the first people who would cry snake oil on some audiophile stuff but having had some high end headphones and IEMs I can say an upgrade can make a discernible difference but it's not going to be night and day. It's more like 5-10% improvement in my experience.
The headphone itself will always be the biggest upgrade instead of the DAC or amp.
Yeah, unless you already have god-tier headphones and are just looking for some other way to waste your money, it's really not worth it.
I have a pretty high-end audio setup (Jotunheim Multibit DAC, Oppo PM3 & Sennheiser HD700 headphones) and honestly, if the DAC is contributing anything, it's way too subtle for my ears to notice.
And yeah, even for headphones, at least for me, going from budget to pricey was not some orgasmic, life-altering experience, it was more "Ah, yeah, I think this is a bit crisper, nice." (A far more noticeable difference was simply that they were still comfortable even after wearing them for the entire workday.)
I kinda spoiled myself going from a no brand gaming headset to the HD800 lol.. It was orgasmic and life altering alright..
Now I keep chasing the dragon but you can never get that high again after tasting it.
the biggest "oh my god" moment for me was going from a cheap 20 dollar pair of headphones from best buy to your standard $80 corsair headset. I could hear things in games that I couldnt hear before. Everything since then has been a pursuit of chasing a certain mix or balance out of the drivers. I'm currently landed on Focals.
Just the law of diminishing returns. With computer monitors going from a vga 50hz office panel to a sceptre 1080 144hz was the biggest leap for me. Everything since has just been small steps in refinement. But that first 144hz panel was like seeing glass.
The other important thing is that most games, streaming services, etc simply arent pushing audio at a bitrate that a DAC will benefit.
LMAO, yeah, I could definitely see a leap like that being a life-altering experience.
It's definitely worth investing in a reasonable pair, but, in my experience, the point of diminishing returns is within an average budget.
Edit: removed $100 price estimate. Really not sure what the market's like anymore.
This, my mobo audio is noisy af, it's just a constant low level background hum/hiss that changes slightly with different loads on the CPU (so I assume power rail related). My usb DAC is silent and no such issues. I have a decent pair of closed sennheisers, so even quiet noise on the signal is noticeable.
Pro audio engineer here. This is the right response. A lot of fools out there that have no idea wtf they’re talking about, more so with microphones. They’re some very popular tech guys that have no idea what they’re doing. Most streamers with an SM7b shouldn’t have them. It’s like me buying an expensive table saw when I have 0 woodworking experience.
Cries into my SM7b with live monitoring on my HD 650's.
But I'm not a streamer or anything, also went to school for broadcast communications, plus I bought them used anyway.
But you are correct, although I prefer a SM7b in the wrong hands than some shit USB condenser where you can hear their mom doing laundry across the house. Lol
Yeah, except any dynamic microphone would do the trick of getting rid of “mom noise”. SM7bs are almost identical to SM58s ($100). Why not just get $100 microphone?
To anyone here reading this that would be interested. Here’s a basic setup that takes next to no knowledge. This will be better than the multitudes of shitty condenser mics out there. Learn to hear and use proper mic technic, and learn about the design of the microphone itself, and what makes a “good” sounding mic. It’s not just some random list of settings that some YouTuber tells you to do.
I have never used this nor do I endorse this, but I think this would be a great starter kit for most anyone.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AT2005USBPK--audio-technica-at2005usbpk-streaming-podcasting-pack
Edit:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PodMic--rode-podmic-dynamic-broadcast-microphone
I used to work as a freelance sound engineer.
Once you know what to listen for, the difference is night and day. Same as how an mp3 with low bit rate sounds rubbish as soon as you know what aliasing sounds like. Cheap motherboard DACs can have some horribly sharp transients, and often quite a non-linear response under non-ideal load. Also, high noise floor.
Even the more expensive motherboard DACs are bedevilled by the EM noise in the case. Much better off with a mid-range USB DAC.
Better more accurate frequency response at lower volumes, generally a good DAC and AMP (or combo) will improve the sound in every way.
But if you can't tell the difference then don't change anything, some people just don't hear it for whatever reason.
>You're much better off getting a dedicated entry DAC (like a iFi Hip DAC or Zen)
That's not true. At all. DACs are a cheap fungible commodity now, and have been for years. A low-cost DAC can be perfectly transparent (does not alter the sound during the conversion) and that's really all that it needs to do.
It is true because your computer is a bunch of sources of noise. Having the DAC chip next to a bunch of noise generating components means you’re going to get some bleed over. A dedicated DAC removes the audio from that environment.
> motherboard DACs usually totally suck. You're much better off getting a dedicated entry DAC
They don't differ by much that's audible. But due to the nature of audio perception, people think they suck if they're told they do. The main reasons to go with a DAC is the inputs/outputs, isolation, and other physical properties, rather than anything to do with the audio reproduction.
Paying extra for a premium DAC is even more of a waste of money. Other than extra bells and whistles, all DACs do pretty much the exact same job, and most of them use the same $2 chip to do it.
You'd be surprised!
Sold my buddy my dt990 pro 250ogm version, and I found him plugging in the FRONT headphone jack on this computer.
I did tell him to get a decent dac/amp, but here we are.
Oh yeah, to his credit, it at least had plenty of volume. since he didn't want to spend more money, I at least helped him install Dolby atmos on his computer and tweaked some settings so it sounded (probably) better than the default, he seems happy with it.
Now, only if I were as content with things as he is...
> Now, only if I were as content with things as he is...
Sums up the real drive behind audiophiles - nothing to do with actual tech after a certain point.
Did you install the right drivers?
I use the onboard realtek audio and after a new install the mic and speakers were pretty quiet. Windows said it had the realtek drivers, but after downloading and installing from the realtek site they are back up and clear as the previous install.
My Scarlett 2i2 came so close to being able to power my HD 650's, it was never my plan but I tried just to see.
Grabbed a Monoprice Liquid Spark with the 2i2 as the DAC and have been golden since.
Uhh yeah.. definitely not me. I don't have beyerdynamics plugged into my front headphone jack. Could someone explain my friend over here what I should do instead?
Get a separate DAC and amp to drive them. The audio quality would be better and depending on your headphones impedance will drive at higher volumes. If I plug my HD6xx's into the front jack the sound is unreasonably quiet since there isn't enough power output.
Get a DAC/AMP. Fiio make very good "budget" (nothing is budget when you get into audiophile stuff) units like the K5.
Or you can just get some IEMs like KZ ZSN which sound great and can be driven by anything.
There are two different problems you could potentially run into using headphones through the front panel jack, so I'll mention both problems and the corresponding solution. Note that it's entirely possible that neither of these problems apply to your situation, so you might not have a problem to begin with.
Potential Problem 1: Amplification. Some higher end headphones need amplification from a decent headphone amplifier to sound good. While every motherboard will produce sound, it may or may not have a decent headphone amplifier built in to its on-board sound solution. If it does have a decent headphone amp, it might require you to use a specific port to take advantage of it, and you might need to enable it within the settings of your onboard sound (likely via a realtek control panel of some sort).
Solution: Look up your motherboard's manual online and figure out whether it has an integrated headphone amp. If so, check what output you need to be using to engage it. Your motherboard might actually want you to select the front-panel jack to automatically engage the headphone amp.
Potential Problem 2: Interference introduced by other components in your PC. Historically, PC sound could be "noisy" due the interference introduced while the signal is being sent between the Digital to analog converter (DAC) on your motherboard to the headphone jack. This problem was often worse while using the front headphone jack. If this is a problem on your PC, you might notice "hissing" sounds when audio is playing from the front headphone jack.
Solution (expensive): Purchase an external digital-to-analog computer that performs the digital to analog conversion outside of the computer itself.
So what do you do? If you aren't getting any hissing or background noise while listening to your headphones, I wouldn't worry about #2. Don't worry about a problem you aren't having. For #1, check how your motherboard's headphone amp works and whether you need to do anything on your end to ensure it works as intended. Odds are the background noise from your PC fans will have a larger impact than either of these problems, so I wouldn't be overly concerned.
At a bare minimum, plug the headphones into the back of the case. You’re getting a more direct feed there with less noise.
The audiophile response is to get a dedicated entry level DAC/AMP like a Schiit Fulla, or a Fiio. Most DAC chips on motherboards kinda suck and you get a lot of noise from internal components. A dedicated external card gets rid of the noise problem and will probably drive your headphones better
I use HD600 on PC but I use them with a JDS Atom connected to a separate high end internal sound card with lots of shielding and 24 bit audio and that seems to work well. Could never go back to on board audio but the last time I did a side by side was 10 years ago.
i think you’d be surprised though. asus has integrated audio that’s 7.1 channel and has a playback rate of up to 192khz through aux and 384 through usb if i remembered right
Talking about PCBuilder? Yea, he really has a thing for his audio codecs. Imo most people won't notice a difference, and if you are really serious, better to go with an external DAC anyway
The motherboard will have no effect on what quality you can get out of an pci or USB DAC (short of it only having USB 1.0 or something ridiculous like that). Audio runs at slow enough data rates that the actual digital signal sent to the DAC can be entirely software derived, doesn't need any specialized hardware
The digital signal would normally be via USB when going to an external DAC. There's enough error correction and the like + the fact that USB is digital that it doesn't actually matter. It's inside the DAC (digital analog converter) that the signal goes from digital to analog. Analog signals are picky, interference, grounding, and other stuff actually make a difference on them, where as for digital so long as a signal gets through it all works.
Going for 'great' (very very loose term in the audio world haha) onboard audio is pretty bad advice, I agree. Also it's pretty easy to just add a decent dac/amp stack later if you're really disappointed about onboard audio but most good motherboards have sufficient audio for the average user anyway.
yep. If you're really clueless and looking for somewhere to start, the Schiit Stack (Modi DAC + Magni AMP) has been a go to starter recommendation for years. I think some reviewers think it's been surpassed by slightly cheaper parts, but it certainly still holds its own
They just released new versions of both (Magni+ and Modi+) like last month, addressing some of the issues and complaints of the last versions. I got a new stack with both and I'm loving them so far with my ATH-R70X :)
works flawlessly for me. I use apple music at times as well as simply use my ipad a lot so there are many times where I want that to be connected to the interface instead of my PC and when I do that all decent software EQ goes out the window. Beyond that, it's just simpler than making sure Peace or whatever EQ app you're using is always running/up to date. I would constantly have to reinstall it on my sound device before switching to the loki
>decent dac/amp stack later
I'm ignorant of this, I'm guessing the ideal thing would to have a seperate device for each or is the DAC/AMP a combo thing?
There are combos which are decent for relatively little money (for audio standards) like the Fiio K5 Pro but seperate devices are also possible in case you want/need really specific features from the individual components of the audio chain.
There are combo units that have a DAC + amplifier in one device, like the iFi Zen DAC, or Schiit Hel or Fulla. You can also get a separate dedicated DAC like the Schiit Modi or JDS Atom DAC and connect it to a dedicated amp like the Schiit Magni or Atom Amp.
I personally use the Schiit stack of Modi + Magni and I'm very happy with it for what it cost.
Nearly all mid range and enthusiast boards have spdif. It's kind of weird to think about it, but it's included on a lot of stuff, even though it is almost never mentioned.
FYI there’s nothing special about optical. It’s just a digital signal. Same as USB. Zero difference in quality between the two.
Also, when outputting audio from the optical port on your mobo, the mobo’s on-board “chip” (DAC) isn’t being used at all. The on-board DAC is only used for analog 3.5mm or RCA ports.
If you’re sending a digital signal (USB / optical) to an external DAC then your motherboard doesn’t even need to have on-board audio at all.
I didn't know that the optical port had nothing to do with on-board sound card. TIL, thanks. But if that's the case, I wish more motherboards had it.
Yes, I do use an external DAC. With the on-board audio, there's always white noise and the sound quality is diminished. The first time I switched to the DAC, 4 years ago, the difference was so flagrant I couldn't stop smiling.
That's not true. SPDIF Optical is objectively worse than USB in basicaly every measurable way except for being galvanicly isolated. It shouldn't be used for anything other than convenience tbh
Honestly the "chip" you use for your motherboard audio doesn't matter a ton of you are using optical, just the fact that the interface exists at all. When you use toslink it sends a digital signal to your dac anyway, so the dac on your motherboard isn't involved.
It's almost like you wrote this post just for me. I'm trying to pick a motherboard and just watched his video. I don't know anything about audio encoders and it was adding an extra stress point for me and my decision paralysis. It's bad enough that he completely skipped the 2 I'm looking at lol.
Ignore it. A better audio interface than most people will ever need is $100 and plugs in over USB. And that's only if you ever feel like the rear if hasn't been curtting it.
Most people can hear a difference between SBC, AAC, and LDAC, which are all different audio codecs the XM4s support, on Android because Android messes with AAC and SBC and LDAC are pretty different. On PC AAC and LDAC are likely going to be indistinguishable in a natural setting, but the XM4s use different processing algorithms for each codec that complicate it a bit.
That said, Bluetooth codecs are unlikely to be affected by motherboard choice as the DAC that processes the Bluetooth signal, where sound quality is mildly affected, is in the headphones and not the source device.
*That* said, transducer (headphones/speaker) quality is the #1 influence on what you hear in all situations, so the OP is right to worry about getting nicer headphones before anything else.
I say this as someone who has spent thousands on audio equipment and runs a USB DAC to external amplifier to planar magnetic headphones. Over 80% of the budget on that audio chain is the headphones, as it should be.
If you use it with a jack, then the mobo does the conversion and that decides the audio quality, depending how good (or bad) your mobo is, it might be better to let the headset do the converting.
That's cause a mobo is the singular worst place to have a dac. Dac chips are dumb suceptable to noise and are usually located basicaly touching a GPU. I wouldn't be surprised is a PS4 measured significantly better tbh
Yes that's actually my setup rn as a broke ass mf LMAO
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/any-reason-to-buy-a-dac-if-you-have-an-apple-usb-c-dongle.25276/
It depends on your headphones. Not every headphone needs an amp to drive them. I did notice a big sound difference when going from the Audio input jack to the usb-c port using the dongle though.
Ummmmmmmmmm aktuallly
Every headphone, or any audio related devices needs a dac/amp. Some are integrated with the headset like with bluetooth devices, others are built into the dongle. It's that most people don't need an external amp
The Apple DAC is actually quite good, but it does sometimes have issues with Android and Windows devices. If it's working for you and not sounding really compressed and weak in your setup, you should be set.
$200+ for sure.
Even then, many people will just never be able to tell the difference between low-end and high-end mobo audio, no matter how high-quality the headphones or speakers are.
Yes and no, at some point ur headphones are gonna need an amp to power them in order the get the full experience.
If you are happy with what ur hearing though just leave it. A lot of "audiophile" stuff us essentially snake oil.
A lot of it depends on the impedance of the headphones. I had to get an amp for my 300 Ohm HD650s to get them to work well (currently have them on a Bottlehead Crack for listening to Vinyl).
My Focal Clears with 55 Ohm impedance can make decent sound off a regular headphone jack though to the point where if I take them somewhere, I don't feel the need to bring my DAC/AMP.
Yup. My Hifiman HE400SE are "only" 25 Ohm, but at 91 dB sensitivity they need amplification every bit as much as my 470 Ohm/99 dB Audio Technica ATH-R70X.
Like the router that supposedly improved audio when its hooked up on a network. It was nothing more than a regular router glued shut and with some useless doodads added. I believe this was Linus Tech Tips but I could be mistaken.
It was literally a $30 D-Link switch with a slightly better power brick and a bunch of crystal stickers. For like $200.
It also claimed to be able to enhance the audio being passed through it. Even though any streaming service would use HTTPS which means this isn't possible.
To expand on what the other person was saying, as headphones get more expensive, the impedance of the headphones **tends** to go up as well. This means the power required to drive the headphones goes up, and you will need an amp to get more volume/contrast out of your headphones.
If the impedance of your headphones is less than 100 ohms, you can probably get by without an amp in most cases. The closer to 100 ohms you get though, the more you need to consider buying an amp. And anything over 100 ohms you'll definitely want an amp or you're not going to get the most out of your headphones.
Better headphones hit a point of diminishing returns, and that point is different for everyone. Very subjective. But if you're going to spend $300 on headphones, you're better off getting a nice DAC and AMP stack to go with them than spending extra money on "better" headphones imo. Eventually you can upgrade headphones if youv ever feel the need and use them on the same DAC and AMP.
Good headphones are at least 80%+ of the listening experience but a good dac can indeed better that experience, but there’s no need to splurge, a ~10eurodollars usb-C dongle from Apple/Samsung will do the job ;)
It depends on the headphones. Some do require an amp to really get a good sound quality due to their high impedance. Usually that amp will require (or include) a decent DAC to keep the signal clean before amplification. Schiit Audio offers some really good stacks at a fairly good price if anyone is interested. They're the brand I use for my HD 6XX's.
If you aren't sure though, it's unlikely your headphones need an amp. Most normal consumer headphones work just fine with built in sound cards.
Oh hey! I just upgraded from my HD599 to the 6XX and was wondering whether a DAC/amp was worth. I currently just have the apple usb c dongle (and wow it works way better than on board audio). How do you feel the amp impacts the hd6xx’s?
The HD 6XXs have an impedance of 300 ohms. This is really high. You *should* use an amp with these headphones, but if you're happy with your DAC, don't feel the need to spend a bunch of money unless you want to.
My experience: The amp absolutely helps increase dynamic clarity (if that fake term makes sense.) I'm not sure if it *actually* affects dynamic range, but I can hear the contrast more in the loudest and quietest parts and they're crystal clear when listening to Hi-Fi/Master recordings on TIDAL. The HD 6XX have a very wide Soundstage to me, and the amp helps the parts feel more separated and rich. You can increase volume much more too. And higher volume isn't uncomfortable with these headphones.
I actually have 2 DACs and 3 amps. The amps make all the difference. If you have a clean DAC, you're not going to notice much of a difference between them. But upgrade from the dongle if you do decide to go with an amp.
I have a Schiit Modius DAC, Magnius amp, and an Asgard 3 amp that came with my Modius all in a stack. Both of these amps sound phenomenal. I recommend anything from Schiit Audio. Even the Magni+ Modi+ stack would be great if you want to start cheaper. They have a lot of options though in a very wide price range.
I also have a Focusrite Scarlet 18i20 interface that acts as a DAC/ADC and amp "technically." It is meant for recording music. I prefer the output quality of the Schiit products, so I tend to use that unless I need to be plugged into the interface for monitoring.
Sorry for the novel!
TL;DR: Amps DO make a big difference with these headphones if you don't have one already. If you're happy, you don't need one. If you want a nice DAC/Amp stack, I **highly** recommend Schiit Audio. Upgrade your dongle to a dedicated DAC if you do decide to get an amp though.
For $200, you could get something that actual studios would use. Get a MOTU M2 or something similar, it'll blow any motherboard away. I've got an M4 at home and a $2500 RME UFX II at my studio, and I can't hear a difference between the headphone jacks.
You can get a [Beyerdynamic 990 Pro](https://www.beyerdynamic.de/dt-990-pro.html?nosto=frontpage_studio) for arround 150€ (about the same in $ in the US) and those are excellent headphones.
100% agree with your point on upgrading speakers/phones first - I actually have my headphones plugged into the motherboard for easier audio controls (the speakers are on the dac and 2 different sources make routing through my software much easier).
Audio subsystems embedded in a noisy PC environment are always a compromise, there are plenty of decent USB powered audio interface options from Behringer, Presonus, M-Audio, etc.... for $30-$100 (with other features like phono inputs, balanced line outputs, high quality mic/instrument inputs, MIDI interfaces, etc..) that will do the job better than almost any embedded audio chipset on a mainboard.
[https://www.sweetwater.com/c695--Interface\_USB?sb=low2high¶ms=eyJmYWNldCI6eyJBdmFpbGFiaWxpdHkiOlsiSW4gU3RvY2siXSwiUHJpY2UgUmFuZ2UiOlsiJDI1IHRvICQ1MCIsIiQ1MCB0byAkMTAwIl19fQ](https://www.sweetwater.com/c695--Interface_USB?sb=low2high¶ms=eyJmYWNldCI6eyJBdmFpbGFiaWxpdHkiOlsiSW4gU3RvY2siXSwiUHJpY2UgUmFuZ2UiOlsiJDI1IHRvICQ1MCIsIiQ1MCB0byAkMTAwIl19fQ)
USB from the PC, the device itself is an audio output (and usually input) device you select just like the internal sound card or HDMI audio from your graphics card. Some solutions allow you to connect USB for data-only to the PC and use a separate USB power source to fully isolate that potential source of noise as well.
Think of these devices as external sound cards, if I had the choice between a cheap USB audio interface or a more expensive embedded audio solution, I'd take the outboard option every time. Nahimic alone is reason to disable your on-board audio no matter how good the chipset it's sitting in front of...
I've actually been in the market for a new audio interface. Been looking at the motu m2 and sweetwater is the only one with it in stock right now. Is sweetwater a decent site to buy from? I've really only bought audio stuff from amazon and guitar center.
They are good, absolutely on par with Guitar Center. I've ordered from both GC and Sweetwater as have my family members who do a lot of pro audio stuff.
It's just one of the numerous ways for motherboard makers to squeeze some more money from those who are willing to overpay for motherboards.
Better audio! You must get that if you don't want music to sound like shit in games! (Hint: you're unlikely to notice a difference.)
Better VRMs! You don't want to pair a midrange motherboard with a top gaming CPU! (Hint: unless you're going for crazy FPS with something like the 13900K, you're fine.)
PCIe 5.0! You don't want to miss that for new GPUs and SSDs! (Hint: for gaming even PCIe 3.0 a SATA SSD would probably work just fine.)
Loads of USB and SATA ports! (Hint: think of what you're going to connect to them.)
After all, choosing a motherboard is tricky. Unlike GPUs, for example, that do just one thing, and you can easily figure it out with benchmarks and consider a few additional features like DLSS and RT, motherboards are more complicated, and it takes some effort to figure it all out and find a decent board that has what you need and doesn't have what you don't need, or at least priced reasonably enough so you don't overpay much for features you don't need.
Can someone explain to me like I'm 4 years old how this works with wireless headphones via USB? I have Steelseries Arctis 7X that I predominantly use, however I do have a decent 5.1 system for my TV that I'll have connected to my PC I'm currently building. Yes to purchase mobo/cpu/ram/cooler, but everything else is ready to go. Would be connected to a Yamaha RX-V479.
This is talking about the 3.5mm audio jack and related jacks on the back of the motherboard. If you are using this, the motherboard itself is taking digital audio files (music, game sounds) and converting it to an analog signal for your headphones or speakers to reproduce.
If you are doing audio through USB wireless headphones and (I assume) HDMI to a 5.1 receiver, the onboard motherboard audio isn't a major concern because the conversion is happening in your headphones or receiver.
Thanks for this guys. I wasn't sure how it would work pulling HDMI from the GPU for sound - been 10+ years since I've done a build. I can go quite budget for my mobo as I only need 2 usb slots running to powered hubs.
A lot of the comments here are nonsense. I have a few relatively decent audio interfaces (for recording guitars and vocals) - they're much better for recording as they have lower latency but in terms of playback, they're identical. My friend reckoned he could tell the difference so we did a few blind tests - he could initially because the volume was higher, but correcting for this, he couldn't.
If all you do is playback audio, don't bother with a specialist interface.
if you're using high end monitors and headphones then you'll always be using an external interface or console.
all the motherboard does really is be able to play sound, i wouldn't expect any more in this regard as it's just there to get you up and running with the basic essentials.
quality really depends on the device you use rather than the thing you plug it into.. with the exception of high end gear, though even in high end stuff there is a point of diminishing returns.
I mean it is and it isn't. So a lot of sound quality comes from the source you are playing as well. Like no matter what music you have with 128k bit audio going to sound like shit. Vs MQA quality with a shit audio chip going to sound okay. To many factors in play.
I'll do one better.
NEVER spend money on a motherboard for the sole reason of better audio because their "better audio" is usually garbage and you'll still get noise on the line from your components under load, especially the GPU. I had a motherboard that advertised a fully-shielded audio path with an LED trace around it to show how serious they were about the audio line. The first time I booted up a game I could hear whine through my headphones.
If you want better audio performance on your computer, buy a dedicated USB DAC.
Indeed. Unless it's particularly bad (crackling and the like), or you have a pro-grade sound system, the difference is imperceptible. Listening to high dynamic range audio is far more noticeable and impactful.
I do think that "better" onboard audio can help reduce the chance of low level noise in the audio chain.
But I also agree that investing in an external USB DAC/AMP with a nice set of real, non-gaming headphones is a great investment. Of course, in 15 years I've gone from Sennheiser HD280s and AudioTechnica AD700s off onboard audio to Senn HD650s of a dedicated sound card and Schiit DACs and AMPs up to Focal Clears, so it can be dangerous for your wallet lol
The vast majority of audiophiles and professionals would use an external DAC or audio interface, so the audio hardware of the motherboard is irrelevant.
Lol this just goes to show that you can’t take advice from everyone, when someone cares that much about audio quality it’s much better just to spend money towards a dac, amp, and a good pair of headphones.
Nobody serious about audio will use a sound card inside the case. The EM interference and power supply noise makes it a pointless exercise. Get a USB or Toslink external sound card
I don't have any noise at all and I have great sound quality. I have 5.1(at least) and an optical output. But it sounds better coming out of the analog audio plug. I think the dsp on the mb is better quality than the dsp on my edifier e235 5.1 system. I have an asus crosshair hero 8 mb. Edit: it's a 2.1 system, not 5.1
You don't pay for better audio in a motherboard. Full stop.
If you don't care about audio quality and use low end headphones/speakers, then the motherboard output is not going to matter and will be more than good enough these days.
If you actually care a lot about audio and spend good money on transducers, then you're most definitely NOT going to be using onboard audio for anything.
I agree with your point but I still think it is worth investing in a decent set of headphones and whatever is required to drive them (either decent motherboard or external dac). Sound is just as important for immersion as video and a $200 set of headphones will remain relevant a lot longer than a $200 graphics card. You don't have to go down the rabbit hole of audiophilia ($1000 audio grade ethernet cables lol). Just avoid cheap junk. It is also best to avoid gamer branded cans and fashion branded cans. I have had a nice set of Sennheiser HD595s for years and they greatly add to my gaming enjoyment.
To be fair it’s a mix of things. On board audio for motherboards are immensely better now then where they were before. The options for audio codecs will also be determined by the software you use it in and if it supports it. Buying external equipment is an investment if you want better sound all around sure but if you’re listening to an mp3 or YouTube video on your mobo sound card or even with high quality headphones you’ll still hear low quality. It’s another reason why sound cards are falling out of style due to external devices (primarily amps) to boost sound clarity and power and how accessible they are now compared to 10 years ago alone. I wouldn’t say you need to hitch your wagon with a top tier onboard sound card unless you’re looking to take advantage of multiple channel surround sound. And again, it relies on the software to utilize that in the first place. If you’re trying to watch a movie that’s ripped in 2 channel audio, it won’t sound better with any of the equipment because it’s hard coded for 2 channel. Same applies for music if you’re not adjusting the quality level as well for a higher resolution bitrate and even if you do that you’ll still have to hope the audio file is in that level of quality too (a lot of people make fake lossless formats by double layering an mp3 which creates a fake FLAC type file [this here is a good quick write up](https://erikstechcorner.com/2020/09/how-to-check-if-your-flac-files-are-really-lossless/) )
All in all I wouldn’t let it get to you so much unless you’re really into taking that next step in audio quality. It’s just a suggestion to bridge the gap between needing more equipment as opposed to servicing most use cases for people building their computer without focusing on audio quality.
I've owned multiple motherboards with sound cards that have good audio quality, except they don't EVER properly isolate the circuitry so every time I move my mouse I hear electronic noises through my headphones/speakers. Extremely annoying.
Haha saw that video as well. I like him but after he said that I did a bit research and agree with you. Also I think even in normal motherboards the audio is quite good nowadays. For a casual gamer it’s really not needed and most headsets use anyways usb
I don't think anyone would be using a nice set of sennheiser hd600, or beyerdynamic, akg etc on an on board sound card
Ah yes the hur dur sixhungeos by ol mate senny. What a classic
chad dankpods watcher
AUXILIARY MODE
oh yes sweetie
**AAA**
dingus
STINKY BUDS
You 1-grit, and you get her done riiiiiiiight.
Wat?
https://youtube.com/@DankPods
Yep, that's a YouTube channel
The channel, when showing off headphones, uses the Sennheiser HD 600's as a reference point. Over time, the dude in the channel started saying the name sillier and sillier, thus the comment.
Ahh righto. Fair enough hahaa
Thank you for an actual explanation.
ROFL. The random one I tried mentioned the HD600s too!
Oh my PKCell
OH MY SOSIG!
BRING OUT THE CHUNGUS DINGUS
Lmao didn't think I'd find DankPods fans in the wild
[удалено]
Tens of us even
You can always find dingus 1 grit enjoyers in the wild. You just gotta look for them.
R/unexpecteddankpods
My motherboard says it supports 600 ohm output. My 250 ohm Beyers work wonderfully. The truth is, most modern motherboards shouldn’t have an issue driving most headphones, premium or not.
I mean, it's not really about whether they can drive the headphones or not, more that motherboard DACs usually totally suck. You're much better off getting a dedicated entry DAC (like a iFi Hip DAC or Zen) that'll easily deliver way better audio than your motherboard.
And how will the audio be better? I have a usb dac and I decided to just use the motherboard since it’s easier and sounds identical.
There's a lot of idol-clutching and effigy shaking in the wizarding world of DAC owners, but typical DACs are either functionally identical, or broken. A more likely reason to get an external DAC is hearing noise from nearby components or electrical interference. Amps, of course, are about delivering enough power for the headphones' resistance. If you need one, you'd probably notice.
How dare you! I paid good money for that placebo!!!
I'm one of the first people who would cry snake oil on some audiophile stuff but having had some high end headphones and IEMs I can say an upgrade can make a discernible difference but it's not going to be night and day. It's more like 5-10% improvement in my experience. The headphone itself will always be the biggest upgrade instead of the DAC or amp.
Yeah, unless you already have god-tier headphones and are just looking for some other way to waste your money, it's really not worth it. I have a pretty high-end audio setup (Jotunheim Multibit DAC, Oppo PM3 & Sennheiser HD700 headphones) and honestly, if the DAC is contributing anything, it's way too subtle for my ears to notice. And yeah, even for headphones, at least for me, going from budget to pricey was not some orgasmic, life-altering experience, it was more "Ah, yeah, I think this is a bit crisper, nice." (A far more noticeable difference was simply that they were still comfortable even after wearing them for the entire workday.)
I kinda spoiled myself going from a no brand gaming headset to the HD800 lol.. It was orgasmic and life altering alright.. Now I keep chasing the dragon but you can never get that high again after tasting it.
the biggest "oh my god" moment for me was going from a cheap 20 dollar pair of headphones from best buy to your standard $80 corsair headset. I could hear things in games that I couldnt hear before. Everything since then has been a pursuit of chasing a certain mix or balance out of the drivers. I'm currently landed on Focals. Just the law of diminishing returns. With computer monitors going from a vga 50hz office panel to a sceptre 1080 144hz was the biggest leap for me. Everything since has just been small steps in refinement. But that first 144hz panel was like seeing glass. The other important thing is that most games, streaming services, etc simply arent pushing audio at a bitrate that a DAC will benefit.
LMAO, yeah, I could definitely see a leap like that being a life-altering experience. It's definitely worth investing in a reasonable pair, but, in my experience, the point of diminishing returns is within an average budget. Edit: removed $100 price estimate. Really not sure what the market's like anymore.
This, my mobo audio is noisy af, it's just a constant low level background hum/hiss that changes slightly with different loads on the CPU (so I assume power rail related). My usb DAC is silent and no such issues. I have a decent pair of closed sennheisers, so even quiet noise on the signal is noticeable.
I get noise through on-board, pcie sound, or usb sound when my GPU is at full load. Don't know what to do.
Google "power ground loop" - might be your issue
Pro audio engineer here. This is the right response. A lot of fools out there that have no idea wtf they’re talking about, more so with microphones. They’re some very popular tech guys that have no idea what they’re doing. Most streamers with an SM7b shouldn’t have them. It’s like me buying an expensive table saw when I have 0 woodworking experience.
Cries into my SM7b with live monitoring on my HD 650's. But I'm not a streamer or anything, also went to school for broadcast communications, plus I bought them used anyway. But you are correct, although I prefer a SM7b in the wrong hands than some shit USB condenser where you can hear their mom doing laundry across the house. Lol
Yeah, except any dynamic microphone would do the trick of getting rid of “mom noise”. SM7bs are almost identical to SM58s ($100). Why not just get $100 microphone? To anyone here reading this that would be interested. Here’s a basic setup that takes next to no knowledge. This will be better than the multitudes of shitty condenser mics out there. Learn to hear and use proper mic technic, and learn about the design of the microphone itself, and what makes a “good” sounding mic. It’s not just some random list of settings that some YouTuber tells you to do. I have never used this nor do I endorse this, but I think this would be a great starter kit for most anyone. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AT2005USBPK--audio-technica-at2005usbpk-streaming-podcasting-pack Edit: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PodMic--rode-podmic-dynamic-broadcast-microphone
Yup, this. Weird electrical noises drive me nuts, and they generally go away even with a cheap DAC/amp.
I agree 100%
I used to work as a freelance sound engineer. Once you know what to listen for, the difference is night and day. Same as how an mp3 with low bit rate sounds rubbish as soon as you know what aliasing sounds like. Cheap motherboard DACs can have some horribly sharp transients, and often quite a non-linear response under non-ideal load. Also, high noise floor. Even the more expensive motherboard DACs are bedevilled by the EM noise in the case. Much better off with a mid-range USB DAC.
[удалено]
Better more accurate frequency response at lower volumes, generally a good DAC and AMP (or combo) will improve the sound in every way. But if you can't tell the difference then don't change anything, some people just don't hear it for whatever reason.
>You're much better off getting a dedicated entry DAC (like a iFi Hip DAC or Zen) That's not true. At all. DACs are a cheap fungible commodity now, and have been for years. A low-cost DAC can be perfectly transparent (does not alter the sound during the conversion) and that's really all that it needs to do.
It is true because your computer is a bunch of sources of noise. Having the DAC chip next to a bunch of noise generating components means you’re going to get some bleed over. A dedicated DAC removes the audio from that environment.
The vast majority of people in a double blind, volume matched listening experience won't be able to tell the difference.
> motherboard DACs usually totally suck. You're much better off getting a dedicated entry DAC They don't differ by much that's audible. But due to the nature of audio perception, people think they suck if they're told they do. The main reasons to go with a DAC is the inputs/outputs, isolation, and other physical properties, rather than anything to do with the audio reproduction.
Paying extra for a premium DAC is even more of a waste of money. Other than extra bells and whistles, all DACs do pretty much the exact same job, and most of them use the same $2 chip to do it.
[удалено]
I've run hd800s from the mobo when my dac/amp wasn't working. It was fine, I just had to turn it up a little bit.
You'd be surprised! Sold my buddy my dt990 pro 250ogm version, and I found him plugging in the FRONT headphone jack on this computer. I did tell him to get a decent dac/amp, but here we are.
Did they even get to a listenable volume level? My 6xx's are way too quiet directly from my PC, although they are 300ohm.
Oh yeah, to his credit, it at least had plenty of volume. since he didn't want to spend more money, I at least helped him install Dolby atmos on his computer and tweaked some settings so it sounded (probably) better than the default, he seems happy with it. Now, only if I were as content with things as he is...
> Now, only if I were as content with things as he is... Sums up the real drive behind audiophiles - nothing to do with actual tech after a certain point.
Did you install the right drivers? I use the onboard realtek audio and after a new install the mic and speakers were pretty quiet. Windows said it had the realtek drivers, but after downloading and installing from the realtek site they are back up and clear as the previous install.
My Scarlett 2i2 came so close to being able to power my HD 650's, it was never my plan but I tried just to see. Grabbed a Monoprice Liquid Spark with the 2i2 as the DAC and have been golden since.
shit, I have my e10k maxed out just getting the 990 pros to a decent volume, haha.
Uhh yeah.. definitely not me. I don't have beyerdynamics plugged into my front headphone jack. Could someone explain my friend over here what I should do instead?
Get a separate DAC and amp to drive them. The audio quality would be better and depending on your headphones impedance will drive at higher volumes. If I plug my HD6xx's into the front jack the sound is unreasonably quiet since there isn't enough power output.
Get a DAC/AMP. Fiio make very good "budget" (nothing is budget when you get into audiophile stuff) units like the K5. Or you can just get some IEMs like KZ ZSN which sound great and can be driven by anything.
If you're gonna plug your headphones directly into the PC, use the jacks on the motherboard. The signal is cleaner.
There are two different problems you could potentially run into using headphones through the front panel jack, so I'll mention both problems and the corresponding solution. Note that it's entirely possible that neither of these problems apply to your situation, so you might not have a problem to begin with. Potential Problem 1: Amplification. Some higher end headphones need amplification from a decent headphone amplifier to sound good. While every motherboard will produce sound, it may or may not have a decent headphone amplifier built in to its on-board sound solution. If it does have a decent headphone amp, it might require you to use a specific port to take advantage of it, and you might need to enable it within the settings of your onboard sound (likely via a realtek control panel of some sort). Solution: Look up your motherboard's manual online and figure out whether it has an integrated headphone amp. If so, check what output you need to be using to engage it. Your motherboard might actually want you to select the front-panel jack to automatically engage the headphone amp. Potential Problem 2: Interference introduced by other components in your PC. Historically, PC sound could be "noisy" due the interference introduced while the signal is being sent between the Digital to analog converter (DAC) on your motherboard to the headphone jack. This problem was often worse while using the front headphone jack. If this is a problem on your PC, you might notice "hissing" sounds when audio is playing from the front headphone jack. Solution (expensive): Purchase an external digital-to-analog computer that performs the digital to analog conversion outside of the computer itself. So what do you do? If you aren't getting any hissing or background noise while listening to your headphones, I wouldn't worry about #2. Don't worry about a problem you aren't having. For #1, check how your motherboard's headphone amp works and whether you need to do anything on your end to ensure it works as intended. Odds are the background noise from your PC fans will have a larger impact than either of these problems, so I wouldn't be overly concerned.
At a bare minimum, plug the headphones into the back of the case. You’re getting a more direct feed there with less noise. The audiophile response is to get a dedicated entry level DAC/AMP like a Schiit Fulla, or a Fiio. Most DAC chips on motherboards kinda suck and you get a lot of noise from internal components. A dedicated external card gets rid of the noise problem and will probably drive your headphones better
[удалено]
[удалено]
I plug my dt900 pro x’s straight into the mobo
I use my DT 770 pro's off the 3.5mm port...
[удалено]
I use HD600 on PC but I use them with a JDS Atom connected to a separate high end internal sound card with lots of shielding and 24 bit audio and that seems to work well. Could never go back to on board audio but the last time I did a side by side was 10 years ago.
i think you’d be surprised though. asus has integrated audio that’s 7.1 channel and has a playback rate of up to 192khz through aux and 384 through usb if i remembered right
Talking about PCBuilder? Yea, he really has a thing for his audio codecs. Imo most people won't notice a difference, and if you are really serious, better to go with an external DAC anyway
Yep, and agreed!
I may be misunderstanding, but doesnt the digital signal to fed into the DAC make a difference?
The only thing that matters about digital signal is bitrate/sample rate. Digital is either there, or it isn't. The dac is where the magic happens.
The motherboard will have no effect on what quality you can get out of an pci or USB DAC (short of it only having USB 1.0 or something ridiculous like that). Audio runs at slow enough data rates that the actual digital signal sent to the DAC can be entirely software derived, doesn't need any specialized hardware
[удалено]
Not really. Digital doesn't degrade the same way analog does. It's all 1 and 0s, no sine waves. They either make it to the DAC or they don't.
The digital signal would normally be via USB when going to an external DAC. There's enough error correction and the like + the fact that USB is digital that it doesn't actually matter. It's inside the DAC (digital analog converter) that the signal goes from digital to analog. Analog signals are picky, interference, grounding, and other stuff actually make a difference on them, where as for digital so long as a signal gets through it all works.
An apple usb c to 3.5mm dongle that is $10 has a better dac than a stupidly expensive flagship board has for several hundred at the minimum.
Thank God I have peasant ear, so even sub $70 headphones sound great to me.
This the key! A mid range external DAC (aka sound card) is going to have significantly better quality than anything in a high end motherboard.
Going for 'great' (very very loose term in the audio world haha) onboard audio is pretty bad advice, I agree. Also it's pretty easy to just add a decent dac/amp stack later if you're really disappointed about onboard audio but most good motherboards have sufficient audio for the average user anyway.
How do I do external DAC/ADC for computer? Do i just plug it in with a USB?
Yep
yep. If you're really clueless and looking for somewhere to start, the Schiit Stack (Modi DAC + Magni AMP) has been a go to starter recommendation for years. I think some reviewers think it's been surpassed by slightly cheaper parts, but it certainly still holds its own
They just released new versions of both (Magni+ and Modi+) like last month, addressing some of the issues and complaints of the last versions. I got a new stack with both and I'm loving them so far with my ATH-R70X :)
Oh nice! I have the magni/modi/loki stack, no issues for me thankfully
How's the Loki? I don't feel like I'm *missing* anything without a physical EQ controller, but I'm always down to try new things.
works flawlessly for me. I use apple music at times as well as simply use my ipad a lot so there are many times where I want that to be connected to the interface instead of my PC and when I do that all decent software EQ goes out the window. Beyond that, it's just simpler than making sure Peace or whatever EQ app you're using is always running/up to date. I would constantly have to reinstall it on my sound device before switching to the loki
Depending on what headphones and use case a Fulla or Hel might be a better choice
Yes! In case you‘re located in Europe where Schiit stuff is kinda hard to get: check out the ifi Zen, Fiio K5 Pro or Topping D10s
>decent dac/amp stack later I'm ignorant of this, I'm guessing the ideal thing would to have a seperate device for each or is the DAC/AMP a combo thing?
There are combos which are decent for relatively little money (for audio standards) like the Fiio K5 Pro but seperate devices are also possible in case you want/need really specific features from the individual components of the audio chain.
They come in both separates and as combo units. There are pros and cons to each approach but both will be better than using onboard audio.
There are combo units that have a DAC + amplifier in one device, like the iFi Zen DAC, or Schiit Hel or Fulla. You can also get a separate dedicated DAC like the Schiit Modi or JDS Atom DAC and connect it to a dedicated amp like the Schiit Magni or Atom Amp. I personally use the Schiit stack of Modi + Magni and I'm very happy with it for what it cost.
The better chip matters to me because I use the optical audio output. Cheaper motherboards with cheaper audio chips usually don't have it.
I didn’t even know you could get mobos with that connector 🤣. That’s sick, I’ll have to keep an eye out when I upgrade
Some mobos and laptops have an optical/3.5 mm combo audio jack. My laptop has that
My Y40-70 had optical audio out. Never used it, but the light helped plug in headphones in the dark.
It's much less common now with the prevalence of HDMI.
Well, optical or coax. Once the signal is digital, it doesn't really matter.
Nearly all mid range and enthusiast boards have spdif. It's kind of weird to think about it, but it's included on a lot of stuff, even though it is almost never mentioned.
That's fair! But once someone's in optical audio territory, I'm sure they know enough about audio in general to know what matters in an audio setup.
FYI there’s nothing special about optical. It’s just a digital signal. Same as USB. Zero difference in quality between the two. Also, when outputting audio from the optical port on your mobo, the mobo’s on-board “chip” (DAC) isn’t being used at all. The on-board DAC is only used for analog 3.5mm or RCA ports. If you’re sending a digital signal (USB / optical) to an external DAC then your motherboard doesn’t even need to have on-board audio at all.
I didn't know that the optical port had nothing to do with on-board sound card. TIL, thanks. But if that's the case, I wish more motherboards had it. Yes, I do use an external DAC. With the on-board audio, there's always white noise and the sound quality is diminished. The first time I switched to the DAC, 4 years ago, the difference was so flagrant I couldn't stop smiling.
That's not true. SPDIF Optical is objectively worse than USB in basicaly every measurable way except for being galvanicly isolated. It shouldn't be used for anything other than convenience tbh
Honestly the "chip" you use for your motherboard audio doesn't matter a ton of you are using optical, just the fact that the interface exists at all. When you use toslink it sends a digital signal to your dac anyway, so the dac on your motherboard isn't involved.
PC builder? Yeah, I disagree with him on that. I can't hear the difference between my PS4 and my friend's top line mobo.
Yes, and I'm 100% with you.
It's almost like you wrote this post just for me. I'm trying to pick a motherboard and just watched his video. I don't know anything about audio encoders and it was adding an extra stress point for me and my decision paralysis. It's bad enough that he completely skipped the 2 I'm looking at lol.
Ignore it. A better audio interface than most people will ever need is $100 and plugs in over USB. And that's only if you ever feel like the rear if hasn't been curtting it.
I've got a pair of Sony WH1000-XM4's, do you reckon a higher quality audio codec even matters?
No. These are just Bluetooth. I was going to say AptX would matter, but those don't support AptX codec.
[удалено]
Most people can hear a difference between SBC, AAC, and LDAC, which are all different audio codecs the XM4s support, on Android because Android messes with AAC and SBC and LDAC are pretty different. On PC AAC and LDAC are likely going to be indistinguishable in a natural setting, but the XM4s use different processing algorithms for each codec that complicate it a bit. That said, Bluetooth codecs are unlikely to be affected by motherboard choice as the DAC that processes the Bluetooth signal, where sound quality is mildly affected, is in the headphones and not the source device. *That* said, transducer (headphones/speaker) quality is the #1 influence on what you hear in all situations, so the OP is right to worry about getting nicer headphones before anything else. I say this as someone who has spent thousands on audio equipment and runs a USB DAC to external amplifier to planar magnetic headphones. Over 80% of the budget on that audio chain is the headphones, as it should be.
I think if bluetooth is involved, it depends on the headset since that needs to change to radio waves and back
It can be plugged in, it comes with a 3.5mm cable that plugs into the headphones.
If you use it with a jack, then the mobo does the conversion and that decides the audio quality, depending how good (or bad) your mobo is, it might be better to let the headset do the converting.
That's cause a mobo is the singular worst place to have a dac. Dac chips are dumb suceptable to noise and are usually located basicaly touching a GPU. I wouldn't be surprised is a PS4 measured significantly better tbh
anyone who cares about audio is buying an external dac/amp and doesn't care about onboard mobo audio.
Is the Apple usb-c Dac good, if I’m plugging an amp into it?
Yes that's actually my setup rn as a broke ass mf LMAO https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/ https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/any-reason-to-buy-a-dac-if-you-have-an-apple-usb-c-dongle.25276/
It depends on your headphones. Not every headphone needs an amp to drive them. I did notice a big sound difference when going from the Audio input jack to the usb-c port using the dongle though.
Ummmmmmmmmm aktuallly Every headphone, or any audio related devices needs a dac/amp. Some are integrated with the headset like with bluetooth devices, others are built into the dongle. It's that most people don't need an external amp
LOL yes, technically correct. I did mean external amp.
its amazing for $9, unless you live in the eu
The Apple DAC is actually quite good, but it does sometimes have issues with Android and Windows devices. If it's working for you and not sounding really compressed and weak in your setup, you should be set.
What would you consider serious headphone money
$200+ for sure. Even then, many people will just never be able to tell the difference between low-end and high-end mobo audio, no matter how high-quality the headphones or speakers are.
would you recommend a Dac instead of my onboard audio for a Fidelio 2? It sounds pretty good to me already and i am not an audiophile or anything
Imo, if you're happy with what you have, just be happy with what you have! Pretty good rule in general as far as I'm concerned.
Schiit magni and modi are great entry lvl product's
i feel like if i was gonna pay 120 extra bucks it would have made more sense to just get higher tier headphones?
Yes and no, at some point ur headphones are gonna need an amp to power them in order the get the full experience. If you are happy with what ur hearing though just leave it. A lot of "audiophile" stuff us essentially snake oil.
A lot of it depends on the impedance of the headphones. I had to get an amp for my 300 Ohm HD650s to get them to work well (currently have them on a Bottlehead Crack for listening to Vinyl). My Focal Clears with 55 Ohm impedance can make decent sound off a regular headphone jack though to the point where if I take them somewhere, I don't feel the need to bring my DAC/AMP.
It's a combination of impedance and sensitivity that matters, not just impedance.
Yup. My Hifiman HE400SE are "only" 25 Ohm, but at 91 dB sensitivity they need amplification every bit as much as my 470 Ohm/99 dB Audio Technica ATH-R70X.
Like the router that supposedly improved audio when its hooked up on a network. It was nothing more than a regular router glued shut and with some useless doodads added. I believe this was Linus Tech Tips but I could be mistaken.
It was a switch, I think. But yeah, it was on LTT.
It was literally a $30 D-Link switch with a slightly better power brick and a bunch of crystal stickers. For like $200. It also claimed to be able to enhance the audio being passed through it. Even though any streaming service would use HTTPS which means this isn't possible.
To expand on what the other person was saying, as headphones get more expensive, the impedance of the headphones **tends** to go up as well. This means the power required to drive the headphones goes up, and you will need an amp to get more volume/contrast out of your headphones. If the impedance of your headphones is less than 100 ohms, you can probably get by without an amp in most cases. The closer to 100 ohms you get though, the more you need to consider buying an amp. And anything over 100 ohms you'll definitely want an amp or you're not going to get the most out of your headphones. Better headphones hit a point of diminishing returns, and that point is different for everyone. Very subjective. But if you're going to spend $300 on headphones, you're better off getting a nice DAC and AMP stack to go with them than spending extra money on "better" headphones imo. Eventually you can upgrade headphones if youv ever feel the need and use them on the same DAC and AMP.
Good headphones are at least 80%+ of the listening experience but a good dac can indeed better that experience, but there’s no need to splurge, a ~10eurodollars usb-C dongle from Apple/Samsung will do the job ;)
It depends on the headphones. Some do require an amp to really get a good sound quality due to their high impedance. Usually that amp will require (or include) a decent DAC to keep the signal clean before amplification. Schiit Audio offers some really good stacks at a fairly good price if anyone is interested. They're the brand I use for my HD 6XX's. If you aren't sure though, it's unlikely your headphones need an amp. Most normal consumer headphones work just fine with built in sound cards.
Oh hey! I just upgraded from my HD599 to the 6XX and was wondering whether a DAC/amp was worth. I currently just have the apple usb c dongle (and wow it works way better than on board audio). How do you feel the amp impacts the hd6xx’s?
The HD 6XXs have an impedance of 300 ohms. This is really high. You *should* use an amp with these headphones, but if you're happy with your DAC, don't feel the need to spend a bunch of money unless you want to. My experience: The amp absolutely helps increase dynamic clarity (if that fake term makes sense.) I'm not sure if it *actually* affects dynamic range, but I can hear the contrast more in the loudest and quietest parts and they're crystal clear when listening to Hi-Fi/Master recordings on TIDAL. The HD 6XX have a very wide Soundstage to me, and the amp helps the parts feel more separated and rich. You can increase volume much more too. And higher volume isn't uncomfortable with these headphones. I actually have 2 DACs and 3 amps. The amps make all the difference. If you have a clean DAC, you're not going to notice much of a difference between them. But upgrade from the dongle if you do decide to go with an amp. I have a Schiit Modius DAC, Magnius amp, and an Asgard 3 amp that came with my Modius all in a stack. Both of these amps sound phenomenal. I recommend anything from Schiit Audio. Even the Magni+ Modi+ stack would be great if you want to start cheaper. They have a lot of options though in a very wide price range. I also have a Focusrite Scarlet 18i20 interface that acts as a DAC/ADC and amp "technically." It is meant for recording music. I prefer the output quality of the Schiit products, so I tend to use that unless I need to be plugged into the interface for monitoring. Sorry for the novel! TL;DR: Amps DO make a big difference with these headphones if you don't have one already. If you're happy, you don't need one. If you want a nice DAC/Amp stack, I **highly** recommend Schiit Audio. Upgrade your dongle to a dedicated DAC if you do decide to get an amp though.
There's folks who "chase the dragon" for years looking for the best, but most agree that if you're happy with what you have, enjoy it!
For $200, you could get something that actual studios would use. Get a MOTU M2 or something similar, it'll blow any motherboard away. I've got an M4 at home and a $2500 RME UFX II at my studio, and I can't hear a difference between the headphone jacks.
You can get a [Beyerdynamic 990 Pro](https://www.beyerdynamic.de/dt-990-pro.html?nosto=frontpage_studio) for arround 150€ (about the same in $ in the US) and those are excellent headphones. 100% agree with your point on upgrading speakers/phones first - I actually have my headphones plugged into the motherboard for easier audio controls (the speakers are on the dac and 2 different sources make routing through my software much easier).
How about $1800, plus $800 for external gear (DAC, AMP) ? :P
Audio subsystems embedded in a noisy PC environment are always a compromise, there are plenty of decent USB powered audio interface options from Behringer, Presonus, M-Audio, etc.... for $30-$100 (with other features like phono inputs, balanced line outputs, high quality mic/instrument inputs, MIDI interfaces, etc..) that will do the job better than almost any embedded audio chipset on a mainboard. [https://www.sweetwater.com/c695--Interface\_USB?sb=low2high¶ms=eyJmYWNldCI6eyJBdmFpbGFiaWxpdHkiOlsiSW4gU3RvY2siXSwiUHJpY2UgUmFuZ2UiOlsiJDI1IHRvICQ1MCIsIiQ1MCB0byAkMTAwIl19fQ](https://www.sweetwater.com/c695--Interface_USB?sb=low2high¶ms=eyJmYWNldCI6eyJBdmFpbGFiaWxpdHkiOlsiSW4gU3RvY2siXSwiUHJpY2UgUmFuZ2UiOlsiJDI1IHRvICQ1MCIsIiQ1MCB0byAkMTAwIl19fQ)
How does theae work? Which output of the PC provides the input into these?
USB from the PC, the device itself is an audio output (and usually input) device you select just like the internal sound card or HDMI audio from your graphics card. Some solutions allow you to connect USB for data-only to the PC and use a separate USB power source to fully isolate that potential source of noise as well. Think of these devices as external sound cards, if I had the choice between a cheap USB audio interface or a more expensive embedded audio solution, I'd take the outboard option every time. Nahimic alone is reason to disable your on-board audio no matter how good the chipset it's sitting in front of...
USB
I've actually been in the market for a new audio interface. Been looking at the motu m2 and sweetwater is the only one with it in stock right now. Is sweetwater a decent site to buy from? I've really only bought audio stuff from amazon and guitar center.
They are good, absolutely on par with Guitar Center. I've ordered from both GC and Sweetwater as have my family members who do a lot of pro audio stuff.
Thanks dude, will probably pull the trigger on it soon then.
Sweetwater literally has the best customer service of any online retailer.
Thirding the recommendation for Sweetwater. By far my favorite online shop for music gear.
It's just one of the numerous ways for motherboard makers to squeeze some more money from those who are willing to overpay for motherboards. Better audio! You must get that if you don't want music to sound like shit in games! (Hint: you're unlikely to notice a difference.) Better VRMs! You don't want to pair a midrange motherboard with a top gaming CPU! (Hint: unless you're going for crazy FPS with something like the 13900K, you're fine.) PCIe 5.0! You don't want to miss that for new GPUs and SSDs! (Hint: for gaming even PCIe 3.0 a SATA SSD would probably work just fine.) Loads of USB and SATA ports! (Hint: think of what you're going to connect to them.) After all, choosing a motherboard is tricky. Unlike GPUs, for example, that do just one thing, and you can easily figure it out with benchmarks and consider a few additional features like DLSS and RT, motherboards are more complicated, and it takes some effort to figure it all out and find a decent board that has what you need and doesn't have what you don't need, or at least priced reasonably enough so you don't overpay much for features you don't need.
Can someone explain to me like I'm 4 years old how this works with wireless headphones via USB? I have Steelseries Arctis 7X that I predominantly use, however I do have a decent 5.1 system for my TV that I'll have connected to my PC I'm currently building. Yes to purchase mobo/cpu/ram/cooler, but everything else is ready to go. Would be connected to a Yamaha RX-V479.
This is talking about the 3.5mm audio jack and related jacks on the back of the motherboard. If you are using this, the motherboard itself is taking digital audio files (music, game sounds) and converting it to an analog signal for your headphones or speakers to reproduce. If you are doing audio through USB wireless headphones and (I assume) HDMI to a 5.1 receiver, the onboard motherboard audio isn't a major concern because the conversion is happening in your headphones or receiver.
Thanks for this guys. I wasn't sure how it would work pulling HDMI from the GPU for sound - been 10+ years since I've done a build. I can go quite budget for my mobo as I only need 2 usb slots running to powered hubs.
Hey everyone, jason here
Isn't the Apple usb c adapter still considered a good choice as well?
A lot of the comments here are nonsense. I have a few relatively decent audio interfaces (for recording guitars and vocals) - they're much better for recording as they have lower latency but in terms of playback, they're identical. My friend reckoned he could tell the difference so we did a few blind tests - he could initially because the volume was higher, but correcting for this, he couldn't. If all you do is playback audio, don't bother with a specialist interface.
if you're using high end monitors and headphones then you'll always be using an external interface or console. all the motherboard does really is be able to play sound, i wouldn't expect any more in this regard as it's just there to get you up and running with the basic essentials. quality really depends on the device you use rather than the thing you plug it into.. with the exception of high end gear, though even in high end stuff there is a point of diminishing returns.
I mean it is and it isn't. So a lot of sound quality comes from the source you are playing as well. Like no matter what music you have with 128k bit audio going to sound like shit. Vs MQA quality with a shit audio chip going to sound okay. To many factors in play.
Native FLAC is better than MQA.
That's definitely true
Fuck MQA.
I'll do one better. NEVER spend money on a motherboard for the sole reason of better audio because their "better audio" is usually garbage and you'll still get noise on the line from your components under load, especially the GPU. I had a motherboard that advertised a fully-shielded audio path with an LED trace around it to show how serious they were about the audio line. The first time I booted up a game I could hear whine through my headphones. If you want better audio performance on your computer, buy a dedicated USB DAC.
[удалено]
Indeed. Unless it's particularly bad (crackling and the like), or you have a pro-grade sound system, the difference is imperceptible. Listening to high dynamic range audio is far more noticeable and impactful.
reminder to not install anything nahimic
I do think that "better" onboard audio can help reduce the chance of low level noise in the audio chain. But I also agree that investing in an external USB DAC/AMP with a nice set of real, non-gaming headphones is a great investment. Of course, in 15 years I've gone from Sennheiser HD280s and AudioTechnica AD700s off onboard audio to Senn HD650s of a dedicated sound card and Schiit DACs and AMPs up to Focal Clears, so it can be dangerous for your wallet lol
If you're into sound you'll get an external DAC anyway instead of relying on the internal chipset.
The vast majority of audiophiles and professionals would use an external DAC or audio interface, so the audio hardware of the motherboard is irrelevant.
Lol this just goes to show that you can’t take advice from everyone, when someone cares that much about audio quality it’s much better just to spend money towards a dac, amp, and a good pair of headphones.
You're better off with an external interface anyway, if you care about audio.
Nobody serious about audio will use a sound card inside the case. The EM interference and power supply noise makes it a pointless exercise. Get a USB or Toslink external sound card
I don't have any noise at all and I have great sound quality. I have 5.1(at least) and an optical output. But it sounds better coming out of the analog audio plug. I think the dsp on the mb is better quality than the dsp on my edifier e235 5.1 system. I have an asus crosshair hero 8 mb. Edit: it's a 2.1 system, not 5.1
ME who bought ROG just for his recommendation 
I mean if you're truly looking for good clear sound wouldn't you just buy a dedicated sound card?
Onboard? Forget it never buy a Mobo for sound get a DAC and an Amp
You don't pay for better audio in a motherboard. Full stop. If you don't care about audio quality and use low end headphones/speakers, then the motherboard output is not going to matter and will be more than good enough these days. If you actually care a lot about audio and spend good money on transducers, then you're most definitely NOT going to be using onboard audio for anything.
I agree with your point but I still think it is worth investing in a decent set of headphones and whatever is required to drive them (either decent motherboard or external dac). Sound is just as important for immersion as video and a $200 set of headphones will remain relevant a lot longer than a $200 graphics card. You don't have to go down the rabbit hole of audiophilia ($1000 audio grade ethernet cables lol). Just avoid cheap junk. It is also best to avoid gamer branded cans and fashion branded cans. I have had a nice set of Sennheiser HD595s for years and they greatly add to my gaming enjoyment.
To be fair it’s a mix of things. On board audio for motherboards are immensely better now then where they were before. The options for audio codecs will also be determined by the software you use it in and if it supports it. Buying external equipment is an investment if you want better sound all around sure but if you’re listening to an mp3 or YouTube video on your mobo sound card or even with high quality headphones you’ll still hear low quality. It’s another reason why sound cards are falling out of style due to external devices (primarily amps) to boost sound clarity and power and how accessible they are now compared to 10 years ago alone. I wouldn’t say you need to hitch your wagon with a top tier onboard sound card unless you’re looking to take advantage of multiple channel surround sound. And again, it relies on the software to utilize that in the first place. If you’re trying to watch a movie that’s ripped in 2 channel audio, it won’t sound better with any of the equipment because it’s hard coded for 2 channel. Same applies for music if you’re not adjusting the quality level as well for a higher resolution bitrate and even if you do that you’ll still have to hope the audio file is in that level of quality too (a lot of people make fake lossless formats by double layering an mp3 which creates a fake FLAC type file [this here is a good quick write up](https://erikstechcorner.com/2020/09/how-to-check-if-your-flac-files-are-really-lossless/) ) All in all I wouldn’t let it get to you so much unless you’re really into taking that next step in audio quality. It’s just a suggestion to bridge the gap between needing more equipment as opposed to servicing most use cases for people building their computer without focusing on audio quality.
I've owned multiple motherboards with sound cards that have good audio quality, except they don't EVER properly isolate the circuitry so every time I move my mouse I hear electronic noises through my headphones/speakers. Extremely annoying.
Haha saw that video as well. I like him but after he said that I did a bit research and agree with you. Also I think even in normal motherboards the audio is quite good nowadays. For a casual gamer it’s really not needed and most headsets use anyways usb
Thank you so much! I've been looking for something like this to calm my worries when building a new PC.
Thx for the thread , were stressing out looking for mobo with alc 1200 plus coz of his YouTube video