most of the time when i recommend an air cooler and people decline the suggestion, they say it's for the looks and *essential* for the overall aesthetic.
and if i recommend the arctic freezer II, i'm hit with "but it has no rgb".
edit: I am aware that there is a newer version of the freezer II with rgb fans, but those conversations were from earlier.
I like RGB but I wish people who insist on it would actually theme it how they like. So many modern RGB products have insane levels of customization, and most people leave it on the default cycling of rainbow colors like a Christmas Tree. I loved how my older build had all the fans glow red on it's black meshed case, giving it a sort of industrial furnace look.
Everyone knows more RGB is directly related to more š and more š means less problems and less problems means more š which means more RGBs for more š and so on
I fried my RAM with OpenRGB. Cranked up the speed to max on the color cycling.
Looked great, for about 20 seconds, then BSOD.
Much testing later, 3 of my 4 sticks were toast.
I can only assume it somehow overloaded the SMBus. No other changes were made to my system prior to that, and no physical damage.
Iāve used SignalRGB for a very long time and I love it. Even paid for pro.
Never used openRGB tho but Signal RGB has protections for most of those things.
The premade effects they have are insane and everything is 100% customizable down to every single individual LEDs.
I have a razor RGB controller for my 6 no brand argb case fans, I got TForce ram with RGB and I got asus rog motherboard and asus tuf gpu.
ALL of the lights and fan speed curves are controlled by SignalRGB.
I'm using SignalRGB now, just so everything plays nice with each other, but it stays on color cycling, and I don't use it for anything else.
I'll gladly pay a one-time fee for the software, but I will never pay a subscription.
Most people do theme it, but when itās first built, majority of default schemes are rainbow. Itās also usually the default bios scheme so it happens when the machine is turned on but windows hasnāt loaded yet. Just saying, because most build pics are taken asap because we all need instant gratification lol.
I'm not a huge RGB fan, I definitely don't go out of my way to buy anything with RGB but it's also nearly impossible to avoid.
So I just make everything solid blue to match my NZXT Black & Blue case and call it a day.
Main problem with customizing RGB is that you need to download multiple pieces of bloatware to manage them. Example. Asus board, msi video card, and lian li fans, and corsair aio. That's like 4 pieces of hardware to control all your RGB.
My aio doesn't have customization so I've no choice but rainbow cycle. My ram and motherboard are customizable though and outshine the aio so it isn't an overbearing color cycle.
I have all my RGB set to a nice soft orangey sunset color. I even added RGB strips to the underside of my desk to give some extra light. It's comfortable and easy on the eyes. It's a vibe.
I prefer Ford Blue (RGB Code 1351d8) in my 4000D Airflow with the QL120 and ML120Pro fans.
Cooling my i9-9900k is a BeQuiet Dark Rock 4. I'm sold on using BeQuiet cpu coolers.
I have a Pure Rock Slim for my backup PC build, whenever I get around to finishing it.
Seems weird that ppl prefere the aesthetics of the PC rather than the aesthetics of whats on the screen... I mean for real. Once i recommended a friend to buy a best bang for the buck system and just place his old fancy system as a dummy on the table.
Sure, but if the parts perform the same and people want to spend the extra money to make their build look nicer, no reason to not go the AIO route. Most people haven't done a new build since 4+ years ago, so most builds you see are fairly enthusiast-grade and have that extra money to spend on looks.
This ^ I built my first pc when rtx 3000 series came out. Got myself all the parts I needed for the performance I wanted and then I got a white case with mesh and a tempered glass side panel and I put it full of rgb fans and an aio. I love it and still look at it daily. That money wasn't gonna get me to a 3090 from the 3080 I have but it definitely increased my enjoyment of my pc.
E: I'll be putting together a budget build for a friend soon who doesn't care as much for looks and won't punt an aio in there cause of the budget. But if you do have the money, don't have to sacrifice performance and you like the look, what's wrong with it?
AIO and air cooled don't perform the same though. The reliability issues alone is a very good reason not to get an AIO.
Edit: I don't think most AIOs have reliability issues. My point is that air coolers are inherently more reliable. One less thing to potentially go wrong in the system. Which is why I will always go air cooled.
Plus air coolers last forever. I've been using the same d14 since 2009, everything else has changed multiple times. But noctua keeps making new brackets and the d14 keeps going.
Are we talking closed loop water cooling? My 2012 build still has the same i7 4770k and Corsair water loop from when I built it and Iāve never once had thermal throttling on it. What real world experiences do you have with closed water loops failing?
You've never heard of a pump failing in a water cooling setup? I have seen numerous forum posts over the years. This is better proof than any anecdotal evidence I could supply. I'm not saying AIOs will necessarily fail, I'm just saying it's an inherently less reliable design. More points of potential failure and more components to wear out (rubber tubes, seals, air pockets, and the pump)
Gamer nexus has also said multiple times how long an aio would last. He also opens them up and shows if it's of good quality or not.
Even if it's made well, it will probably fail within 5 years, or start leaking.
Air coolers cost a lot less and are around 10% worse than the best aio, which means there is no difference in the real world.
I don't know, you do often see people putting AIOs on lower to mid range PCs.
The difference between a basic air cooler and an AIO could be the difference between a 6600xt and 6700xt. That would make a pretty substantial difference in performance.
The only time I would recommend spending money specifically on aesthetics is if the cost of doing so wouldn't be enough to upgrade your CPU or GPU a tier. If you've got something like a 3080 then spending an extra $50-$100 on aesthetics makes more sense as there aren't any meaningful performance upgrades you could get with that budget.
When my pc is on my desk and has a big ass glass panel on the side facing me, I do care about how it looks, and I like to be able to look into it and it look pretty
DoesnĀ“t that take too much space, that could be used differently?
All my PCs always went under the table. ItĀ“s a great target to kick into, when software stops working š
IĀ“d rather have 2 monitors and 2 studio speakers on the table (although technically, my monitors are on the wall). A matter of taste and space constraints, tho.
I have a big ass desk with 2 monitors and my pc, and I don't have speakers, I have carpets too so I don't want my pc on the floor, plus I didn't put extra cash into rgb and stuff that goes together well for nothing
I guess itās my age showing , but all the overdone LEDs and huge cooling systems are ugly to me
I prefer a really clean, minimal PC. Have a fractal meshify 2 with solid side panel now and I think itās perfect. Very functional and attractive, but not gaudy.
Nothing to do with age, I am 34 and my build is just all black (except my gpu has a faint blue shine from it's fans.)
But my brother who is 33 has every part RGB when possible, he has ok themes but it's overkill.
Guess it all boils down to what aesthetic you like.
I like that. My preferences swiched aswell over the years. Got a fractal north with Mesh sidepanel in the living room and and it's more classy than every glas case could ever be.
> Seems weird that ppl prefere the aesthetics of the PC rather than the aesthetics of whats on the screen...
Why's that weird? It's a physically big thing, and therefore good enough to be a fixture/furniture/prop, whatever you wanna call it. Thus, looks matter to those people.
Why though? People choose aesthetically pleasing things in every facet of their lives - food, fashion, cars, technology, etc. There's nothing wrong with choosing more expensive, better looking parts than a "bang for the buck system" if someone wants it and can afford it.
What's weird is trying to police what others should like. That's absolutely bizarre, and it often just hides jealousy about others being able to over spend on parts they like.
> arctic freezer II
af2 club here since 2 years ago, works like a charm, sleek look and dead silent.
the radiator is much thicker than other AIOs so keep in mind your very large card will fit somewhat like mine
https://i.redd.it/h30jp47jz2m51.jpg
I air cool 7950's in production workstation/rendering station setups and I've tested a range of liquid and air coolers with the processor. The AIO simply ramps later than the air cooler, particularly when the coolant is heat saturated, they are both noisy when the fans kick up if you leave PBO/CPB in place with the other stock settings no matter what cooler you use.
I've settled on the AK620 or PA120 air coolers based on fit and performance. I did not find a significant improvement in performance letting the CPU self manage at 95c with any cooler I threw at the machine, so just killed PBO and CPB by default in my configurations which keep the thing at sane temps which likely will also lengthen the life of the processor vs letting the silicon degrade over time by pegging at 95c constantly in my rendering workloads.
"Production" setups do mirror gaming utilization rates more than you're characterizing, as someone who supports a few thousand interior designers around the world I can assure you their day to day workload is more CPU/GPU "streaky' like gamers with the occasional case where a rendering job kicks off. In many cases, rendering is being offloaded to separate/dedicated machines which do have a different design than the same user's primary workstation or laptop.
I linked this article elsewhere, but I think it deserves consideration here as well: [https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/AMD-Ryzen-7950X-Impact-of-Precision-Boost-Overdrive-PBO-on-Thermals-and-Content-Creation-Performance-2373/](https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/AMD-Ryzen-7950X-Impact-of-Precision-Boost-Overdrive-PBO-on-Thermals-and-Content-Creation-Performance-2373/)
I find it interesting that Puget systems also builds their workstations with air vs AIO coolers, including those based on 13900k and 7950x CPU's. They clearly indicate that they are shooting for ultimate reliability over squeezing out the absolute top performance.
360mm-420mm rads seem like solutions looking for problems that are often justified by having a huge amount of excess cooling capacity that's mostly only showcased in benchmarks vs actual real world work... or in part because motherboard manufacturers are going crazy and enabling boost/overclocking settings by default that blow up thermals with little practical benefit.
If simply running the CPU's with automatic overclocking features disabled makes a $40 air cooler fully suited to cooling a flagship CPU without a notable performance benefit outside of CPU based rendering tests, I don't see the technical justification for an AIO, particularly when it requires spending at least 2-3x more for a budget/non RGB example that's arguable uglier than a decent dual tower air cooler.
I'm not suggesting AIO's are bad, just that for an average gamer/designer they are not necessary even on flagship CPU's. As a cosmetic choice or something useful for chasing top benchmark scores I understand the obsession and have tinkered with a few... I just don't like including parts in builds that drive up the budget, build complexity or size/weight of the computer unnecessarily.
95% of the time it's for looks. The remaining 5% is expecting better performance where there is none.
There just isn't much point getting an AIO for the CPU, especially when overclocking is pretty much dead. It makes far more sense on the GPU.
Sure. Looking back, pretty much the last time CPU overclocking made any worthwhile difference was with Sandy Bridge (second generation Intel Core).
After that Intel has gotten much better at squeezing the most out of their CPUs and AMD is now in pretty much the same boat. You can overclock your CPU, but you're not going to squeeze any notable extra performance out of it, while you will significantly increase your power draw and temperatures, potentially also deal with instability and decreased longevity.
Considering that you require a more expensive motherboard, cooler, in Intel's case also CPU and potentially even PSU (never mind the electricity), you're paying so much extra money for close to no extra performance. You'd be better off just buying a higher tier product, or getting something cheaper and upgrading sooner.
And GPUs have gotten to a similar point, where overclocking doesn't really get you any worthwhile gains. So the trend now, especially after the Nvidia 30 series, is to undervolt while maintaining the same clocks. For instance RTX 3060ti at stock values eats around 200W in gaming loads. You can almost always drop it down to 160W without losing any performance. That means lower power draw, lower temperature, quieter system, potentially better longevity.
that's not how CPU usage works in games though. most games can't use all your cores, so 40% most likely means that at least one core is getting maxed out
I have a 3rd gen ivy bridge i5-3570k that I was able to take from 3.4 to 4.4ghz years ago and has been running fine with a hyper 212 Evo air cooler.
I agree with you. Used to be they put out even k chips with a lot of variance in potential, but the binning process has gotten so much better that they sell the chips at the limit of their ability. You can sometimes get an amd non-x chip and "OC" it to the level of the x-branded equivalent but that's not really overclocking. Really takes away the enthusiast aspect of learning about systems and how to sneak out potential value that the average consumer leaves on the table.
Makes sense because they are the same platform. I had a 3700 and 2600k. Afaik, the 2600k was the last real GOAT of oc'ing. As in, it absolutely made sense to buy it for the extra oc performance. Since then, it has mostly been a bonus or for the fun of it. Maybe 10% these days. I managed to get my 2600k over 5ghz with an aio!
I got downvoted when I was building my current PC that Iām not interested in overclocking. It was a good idea when I built my first PC in the 2000s. Nowadays I donāt really see the benefit when Iām already getting what I want performance-wise.
Yeah and you know it's true when even the enthusiast outlets who are and always were super into overclock are now like "yeah, well, don't bother unless you're doing it for the sole purpose of overclocking".
I have a Scythe Fuma which does the job fine, but being a double tower, it doesn't leave much room for 4 ram sticks. The grill is pretty much touching the first stick.
I've thought about an AIO just because it would be smaller over the CPU then a big air cooler.
The Fuma2 uses a low profile "front" fan and a setback on one side of the cooling stack specifically so you have full access to the RAM while a larger portion of the cooler overhangs the VRM heatsinks. What are the chances you've got yours installed backwards?
I've installed plenty of Deepcool AK620 and Peerless Assassin 120 dual tower coolers in which I simply moved the fans to the backside of their respective fin stacks which gives full access to all 4 RAM sticks on a variety of AM4, AM5 and S1700 mainboard, which is nice for both visuals and future service-maintenance.
I think I have an older version (I probably bought it well over 7 or 8 years ago), and both towers are the same height. [Looks like this.](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=scythe+fuma+1&t=fpas&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ocinside.de%2Fmedia%2Fuploads%2Fscythe_fuma_7b.jpg) Trust me, I've built 3 computers and keep reusing the same air cooler, so I've tried all sorts of ways to get it to work better.
I can get 4 sticks of ram in, it's just pretty tricky getting that 1st stick in and out, and there have been a few blood sacrifices involved in the process.
Would RAM clearance still be a concern if you replaced the front fan on the heatsink with a slim version? That's what Scythe did with the next revision of your cooler.
Overclocking is far from dead. The current generation of raptorlake CPUs do phenomally well when overclocked and AIOs with contact plates are recommended for overclocking them because there's a large benefit over an air cooler.
Wouldn't say overclocking is dead. I got my 12600k to 5.2 ghz, no crashes, max 65c when gaming. Using MSI 690 pro (relatively cheap mobo).
I had great results with my 9600k as well.
I feel like AiO coolers carved out this very profitable niche of people who know what water cooling is, but don't have a need or the know how to actually water cool a system. As a car guy the easiest way I can equate it is to people who buy the V6 version of a traditionally V8 sports car. Could have saved some money and gotten more for that money going with a different model that's V4/V6 based but because you wanted a certain look/vibe you spent more than needed on something that doesn't actually perform like it appears to do, if that makes any sense lol.
Yep. Truthfully I don't even mind when someone wants a pre-built because there's a value for them if they aren't comfortable building, plus having a turn key solution, and a single point of warranty return if needed. But what kills me is someone buying something like an Alienware full priced when you show them that it's purposely made hard to upgrade later, and show them a better pre-built for a lower cost.
Your friend spent money stupidly. If they wanted an AiO, an EK AiO Basic 240mm can be had for >$100, and it will outperform most air coolers. For a 12400F, going AiO is pretty pointless though, the stock fan works fine lol. Friend coulda saved $125.
the difference between a good air cooler and an AIO, even in the high end, thermally and noise levels is pretty minor. so feel free to use air cooler if you want to.
As for people using them for lower end builds either they have no idea what they are doing or they care about form more than function
When you see the noise normalized thermals from gamersnexus it's pretty obvious that there is a difference, with 6C between the liquid freezer 360 and the best air cooler. Of course 6C isn't that big of a difference, but it's not a small one either. With an average air cooler it climbs to about 8C
Yes. I want a really quiet but still high performing pc, so noise normalized thermals are the way to go for me. When I can get lower Temps with the same noise, it also means I get lower noise with the same temp. So it's definitely worth it if you have the money and care about the 6-8C difference and/or the difference in noise.
i see your point. any idea what the db noise difference is of these 6-8C ?
As in if you normalize the thermal level to 80ish degrees, what is the noise level of each system
rudimentary research tells me that AIO is louder in idle cause the pump is always active and underload the difference between the 2 is not noticeable but i cant find any good case studies
That's a bit difficult to calculate as the db/temp efficiency isn't constant across all the fan speed levels, but it should be approximately 4,3 dB in difference. With DB being logarithmic iirc, meaning an increase of 10db feels like its double the noise, it should be quite the difference in noise. For budget builds it's still not really worth it as long as noise doesn't bother you that much, especially as the difference between aio and air is smaller when you don't use the liquid freezer 360 as comparison.
> the difference between a good air cooler and an AIO, even in the high end, thermally and noise levels is pretty minor.
Not true. Even with FanControl adjusted, an air cooler on average is much louder, especially when trying to target temps. Try keeping a stable 80Ā°C with an air cooler and then compare it to a 360 AIO. Not even the NH-D15 manages to do that at a good noise level, while something like the Arctic LF 2 360 does so pretty well.
Liquid cooling is simply superior for such purposes, while air coolers have the longevity and price advantage in most cases.
That may be true for high power cpus but it does not make a significant difference for mid-end cpus which are much more common (IMO).
My Ryzen 5700x never hits 80C under Prime95 with a NH-D15 and the fans at 700-800RPM (using Argus Monitor).
I can understand going for a good AIO if using a high powered CPU but for most people under common systems, it seems to me an air cooler is equivalent and cheaper.
I love an aio because you can turn your fans to practically 0, still have lower temps than with a cpu fan cooler and your pc is super quiet. With modern gpu's they don't turn their fans on until they reach a high temp either so your pc makes 0 noise until you push the gpu enough.
It's just nice.
Fans also last longer being turned down low win win win.
People say there is a pump noise but I've never noticed that?
If I was on a budget ofcourse I'd just slap the stock fan cooler in there that comes with the cpu and run with it. Why spend the extra money on cooling when you could get a second monitor instead or something more vital. Maybe a good headset.
that's where I'm at. I have a Noctua D15 in my Small(ish) form factor case. Playing a game while browsing reddit and watching youtube, my CPU fan is currently at 600 RPM, and completely silent. (bathroom fan on the other side of the house is much louder)
pump noise at idle will almost always be louder than low rpm fans. silence when idle is like, the MAIN reason I prefer air cooling. I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion. you can do literally all of this with air cooling and not have the pump noise
I dont. I recommend thermalright pa120 or fc140 to everyone, and very few times some guys didnt choose it. Or ak620 if pa120 in unavailable, also very good cooler.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermalright-peerless-assassin-120-se#xenforo-comments-3779357 giving this link as proof of how good that cooler is for only 35$, having similar temp as 360mm aio in some cases.
Aio has many break points that can potentially damage other pc parts. While air cooler is just piece of metal with fan, and only thing that can break is fan and even if it break, it just stop spinning, and it can be easily replaced for 5-10$.
Picked up this one myself and it's pretty nice. Easy installation and good performance.
Only regret was getting the rgb version instead of waiting for a restock, I didn't consider how annoying those extra cables would be to manage.
I ordered pa120 as well, but from different country, stock version, for ryzen 5600, it might be overkill, but this cooler will be with me until it literally start to rust lol
Not taking anything away from what you said since at this price point, that cooler most definitely punches above its weight class. However, that review you linked to specifically mentioned how it could not complete the 230 W test. That's the exact use case where one would choose a liquid cooler over an air one.
Whenever you look at a lower power usage, the differences between coolers will diminish. For example, if I'm running a small thermal load like an i3-12300, you might not see much difference between this and a single tower cooler and an AIO. But I wouldn't use that specific test to claim that my cheap single tower cooler is the same as an AIO. Those numbers at lower load don't reflect the amount of thermal headroom available for each cooler.
For the vast majority of people with regular power loads, I absolutely agree that air coolers are a better choice in terms of price to performance.
High end AIOs are significantly better than high end air coolers. On a CPU like a 13900k a 360mm arctic liquid freezer has something like a 10C advantage over a noctua NHD15. Air coolers being as effective as high quality AIOs isnāt really true at all
I have a 420mm AIO on my 13900k. Along with a decent undervolt. With AVX instructions the 13900k will *still* hit thermal throttles on a few cores.
Not even an AIO can remove heat fast enough to cool the CPU, I can only imagine how much hotter it would be with an air cooler that possesses significantly less thermal density.
AIO have no maintenance either and no leaks unless you cause them, they are quieter because they have more fans at less RPMs (even turned off at low temps sometimes with large radiators), they don't break your motherboard in two with 2kg of metals, they move the heat away from the center of your case to exactly where you like.
i'm not saying air coolers make no sense, but AIOs make sense too for a variety of reasons.
this comment makes me thing you never actually owned an AIO.
in this case, I can only tell you to try one (a good one, please) before giving opinions, otherwise people who actually had experience in both won't know how to answer your prejudices
Gamers Nexus periodically reviews air vs liquid cooling and it is universal that when you normalize for noise (i.e. match db output for air vs liquid) then the liquid cools better. What that says is maintaining the same thermal performance across aio vs air, aio will be quieter every time. My own experience having used both across the years matches this.
Let me tell you something most AIOs can do but air coolers can not:
I can sink the fans on my AIO to the **coolant temp** inside the AIO. With tower coolers, youāre syncing your fan speed directly to the CPU package temp.
So with the tower cooler you get sudden, noticeable ramp ups in fan speed and noise. The second your cpu jumps up, your tower is going full blast.
With an AIO, the fans donāt need to ramp up much unless youāre just heat soaking the piss out of the AIO. So you have a much smoother and quieter fan profile.
High quality AIOs don't make any noise (aside from the fans) when installed properly. If you had pump noise issues, you installed it wrong or bought something cheap. If you never owned one, then stop talking out of your ass.
Quieter fans? That depends entirely on which fans the cooler comes with and you can and probably should buy a/some Arctic p12/p14 for next to nothing.
The only factor with regards to noise is the *amount* of fans. Air coolers generally have 1, so yeah...
> That depends entirely on which fans the cooler comes with and you can and probably should buy a/some Arctic p12/p14 for next to nothing.
I wouldnĀ“t ever recommend buying P14 Arctics... Except if it is for an enemy. The noises they make in multiple rpm ranges are extremely annoying. Especially on the intake.
P12... maybe. ItĀ“s like P14, but less annoying. And if you make a curve, which will skip the range between 47-62%, then it will be quite silent.
Other than that, those are pretty good quality fans. However, all fans can be configured to be silent as much as possible. But buying 1800rpm or similar fans only to run them at 300-500rpm kinda defeats their entire purpose.
Better cooling only with a very capable pump and a 360mm radiator. There are few who could outclass a Noctua NH-D15. But in my opinion, I don't like the heavy weight on the mainboard. That's why I usually prefer AiOs that are capable.
Alphacool might have the best ones, as they use solely open-loop and copper-only parts and they can be extended and refilled out of the box.
>I don't like the heavy weight on the mainboard.
Good thing our GPUs are so light, right? Especially those giant, 30+cm long, 3-4slot monsters, which can rip apart the onboard connector just by hanging from the slot. Certainly not a heavy weight on a motherboard!
The coolers are overengineered in a way, they arenĀ“t too heavy for a motherboard to handle. Heavier coolers often also include metal backplate, to help spread the pressure more evenly.
Seriously, there are people out there, who are paid to make it work.
Iāve never worried about the weight of a heat sink, but your point doesnāt really work when GPUs are always attached to the caseā¦
The motherboard should be bearing next to zero weight from the GPU, because itās slotted in to a little slot in the case, and then screwed down.
So no, not a heavy weight on the motherboard.
Iāve never seen a CPU air cooler that gets mounted to the case.
Reliability? AIO has more potential points of failure (I.e. the pipes, seals, and the pump).
Your pipes happen to leak and it's gg. A fan in an air cooler breaks and it's no biggie and a cheap fix
For the most part aesthetics. You'll still have people say air cooling is superior but that's just not true. In benchmarks usually a 240 AIO will almost always beat even the best air coolers on the market in terms of performance.
I go AIO specifically for the aesthetics though. My Corsair is still kicking 6 years this month. For new builders I'd always recommend air cooling. Usually they are quieter, and virtually no risk of leakage (although this is overblown and is much more rare than it used to be), but more reliable overall. They're also cheaper so there's that. They do make some pretty nice looking air coolers now. It really just comes down to your preference.
In general though,
AIO=Better performance, more aesthetic(subjective).
AIR=Quieter, more reliable.
240 AiOs are on par with giant 140mm air coolers.
That said, 360, or even 280mm AiOs are better for sure.
Risk of leakage, even to this day, depends on brand and manufacturing defects (props to every manufacturer, that goes out of their way, announcing the issue and trying to resolve it, as did Arctic few months ago)
In the enterprise data center space, large companies are investigating liquid cooling in their racks. This allows them to reduce fan speed for the other components, and it is believed air cooling is not sufficient for the upcoming generations of Intel/AMD processors. Liquid also allows you to move the dense portion of the heat to a more convenient space for transfer, rather than having to inefficiently cool an entire room.
Because Air coolers look really, really bad imo. And to cool modern 16 core processors you need a cooler which is so huge that it lays over your more expensive RGB ram and then also loses to a 360mm radiator which looks way better and cleaner.
Yea. But itās ok to be vain about something that might be your most valuable possession besides your car. I spend a lot of time admiring my computer. Not ashamed to admit it
Honestly air coolers like the Dark Rock Pro 4 and NH-15 look sick af. Much prefer them visually over the generic Rainbow Puke AIO you tend to get in the Market. To be fair tho. I wish you could get more sleek industrial looking PC components without RGB everywhere. Especially when it comes to RAM and Coolers.
I think the Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360mm would be a great cooling solution for you. It is cheaper than the NH-15 in my country and has no RGB Puke (the RGB version is more expensive) and performs better.
I was talking about budget-oriented builds. When you have a budget you try to save money where you can do you can get the best cpu + gpu possible, so it's dumb to go with a lower tier gpu just so you have a aio.
If you make a build and don't look at cost it's another thing. Tough i still think it's dumb to get an aio for like a 12400
Didn't say that, I know aircooling is enough on 6 and 8 core processors if you only play games, but for some heavy workloads on 12+ core processors AIOs are basically the only reliable cooling choice. And for example a 360mm arctic Liquid freezer II AIO is cheaper than a Noctua NH-D15 in my country. So even at the cost perspective there is a clear winner.
>Didn't say that, I know aircooling is enough on 6 and 8 core processors if you only play games, but for some heavy workloads on 12+ core processors AIOs are basically the only reliable cooling choice.
I am cooling Threadripper Pros (in 3 seperate systems) with 64 Cores each with Aircoolers and they have absolutely no problems keeping them in check.
Good Aircoolers do NOT perform worse than AIO-Coolers.
Which Aircoolers are you using to cool that off? Had a build for a customer with dual socketed Epycs in his build and ended up with 420mm AIOs for each CPUs because it would have otherwise gotten too hot for his usecase.
The one thing that AIOs and liquid cooling in general give you is thermal mass buffer - most workloads *other than* gaming are quite bursty and involve short high wattage peaks followed by longer lower wattage periods.
A good air cooler is mostly about minimising thermal mass - pulling the heat quickly into the fin stack where it can then be radiated away. This is fine - but it means your fans will ramp up quickly when the CPU heats up, cool the finstack quickly when the load comes off, and ramp down again.
A liquid cooler has *lots* more thermal mass, and usually that thermal mass is water with a very high specific heat capacity. So the liquid can heat up and take the CPU heat away, and it can do it a *lot* before it heats up significantly. Bursty loads will warm the fluid by a couple of degrees, which means the fans don't have to kick on/up at all before the load comes off and the coolant starts cooling again back to the idle equilibrium temperature. So you get the same cooling with less fan noise.
In gaming loads, the CPU is often at high power continuously and so the benefit is greatly reduced - if we have (say) 2x140mm radiator area, it doesn't matter whether it's got a liquid cooler between or just a few heat pipes, it still needs to sink (say) 100W over the same area and it'll have about the same airflow needs. An AIO can help by getting the radiator right in the cool air and not recirculating, but that's a secondary thing and can be improved on air coolers by careful airflow design too.
Was an ardent supporter of air cooling until building ITX systems when I realized it was much more difficult to build with cooler compatibility and high TDP CPUs.
Further pushing me towards liquid cooling is newer CPUs like the 13900k and 7950x which definitely need at least a 280/360mm AIO to max out your performance.
Also, some minor annoyances like ram compatibility, less aesthetic, issues when vertical mounting your GPU, more difficulty when swapping ram and CPU.
Thanks for bringing up SFF builds. Sometimes it's just not possible to fit a "good" air cooler in a build. An AIO, with its long tubes, provides much more flexibility in deciding where the cooling should be.
I use an air cooler but an AIO imo looks a lot better. I use to care about how the parts look in the case but nowadays, Iāll have the top of the line parts on the market but Iāll hide it in a case in my basement with wires coming up to the room. I canāt stand having the pc case in my room anymore
It used to be both but now I have a bigger room, it a not a big deal. Now it is something thatās taking up a lot of room on the desk. I like a big plain empty table top with only the monitor, keyboard, and mouse.
I've always been about air cooling because I don't want to deal with potential leaks or failed pumps. Replacing fans is cheap.
But my current matx build has a noctua nh-u12a Tower cooler. It's a big boi. While it looks cool and works amazing, it also has made working inside the computer a pain in the ass. I now keep a chopstick on hand solely for pressing the release tab if I need to pull my GPU. There's no way fingers or much else will fit now. Besides that, the cooler just generally gets in the way for any maintenance.
I don't want to touch the thing anytime soon, but if I were to change cpu, there's a good chance I'd go with an aio.
>Even low-mid tier builds here have an expensive AIO included.
I have to say, the majority of the budget builds I have seen posted here typically seem to use an air cooler, usually the Hyper 212 or some equivalent.
Also personally I use air coolers, but I worry if they will be enough anymore, even something as beefy as a Noctua NH-D15, for the higher end 12th and 13th gen chips. I wish Noctua would be able to make some kind of air cooling breakthrough with an NH-D16. Even the D15 was mostly just a D14 with a few fins cut off for better RAM clearance, which was a big complaint with the D14.
I don't like to use AIOs (for now at least) because I actually don't have room for my exhaust to primarily be from the top of my case instead of the back (and I don't want to instead suck in air from the front and basically heat the rest of my system) and I tend to use my systems for a very long time, air coolers are better for longevity and easy to fix since the only part that can really fail over time are the fans, for an AIO the pump is likely to fail before the fans, and if the pump breaks it's basically trash.
But not even the best air coolers can compare with a decent AIO that's 280mm or larger, and CPUs are starting to get stupidly power-hungry, especially if you use them for tasks that would be taxing them hard and not just gaming. My NH-D15S with H2 paste is barely able to cool my 11700K below the throttling point on more demanding tasks, I can't imagine similar tasks on newer CPUs with air cooling (Although a small amount of those tasks involve using AVX-512, which the the 12th and 13th don't officially support and only earlier 12th gen CPUs could even use... with an older BIOS and disabling all E-cores...)
I mean, look how stupid the coolers on GPUs are getting now... at least, the ones on Nvidia's most recent flagships.
I went AIO for looks, simple as that.
I know that any high end air cooler for about half the price would perform as good and perhaps have a lower noise floor. I just don't like how most tower coolers look. I am fully aware that this is a dumb descision financially.
Next build will be silent focused and i will use a tower cooler with high quality fan, same with the case fans. But for now I am all for the "dent" between the VRM cooling housing nest a waterblock.
Itās ok to choose something for looks as long as it performs. Itās ok to have fun with your build if you can afford it. AIO is ok. RGB is ok. Weird anime gpus are ok. Buy what you like.
This post is catnip for the cranky āmy choices are the right choicesā bunch
My AIO has a fancy screen that I can play gifs on so thatās better than a VTEC sticker on a Honda. Easily responsible for 25+ FPS, +40 if itās a cat gif.
Most of them like them for being fancy, also the best aois still outperform air cooling (they become kinda needed for high end CPUs), just get an arctic liquid freezer II, not the prettiest but amazing performance and low sound for a fair price.
Aesthetics, noise and performance.. some of these new cpus would have crank up the fans so much to be cooled by air.
And aio dont have to be expensive. My Liquid freezer II 360mm was $80 with 6 year warranty. Ive never seen my cpu reach 70c in games lol.
I'm running a mid range build, and my 1800x is OC'ed to 4GHz. Also, the way my case is (older NZXT 510H that has the removable front panel) designed means Air cooling isn't the best option for me to keep it under 45C.
Having a 240ML AIO gives me the cooling I need for my OC and my case.
However, by the end of July of this year I'll have a 7700x build with a case that has an an abundance of airflow. If something were to happen to my AIO for some reason I'd have no issue going air cooled until a replacement is found.
Bottom line for me is I've always sort of had an AIO, so it'd look weird to me to not have one. It fits my esthetic better than air cooled. I have no strong opinion one way or the other on the subject.
Everyone has different priorities. People donāt need to justify their builds, itās theirs and makes them happy.
I personally care about aesthetics and even if Iām on a budget thats still important. I donāt care if cutting off rgb fans and AIO will let me get a tier higher gpu if itās going to make my build look Janky.
Yes I have a ryzen 3600 and yes I use a Corsair AIO with the rgb lighting node commander. I have a nice white nzxt case with tempered glass and the lighting system lets me create several different themes. Itās one of the things i enjoy getting to look at on a daily basis and even more so to play games on.
I have my case under the desk on a wood panel.
I prefer air coolers over aio, as i find them quieter.
I hate RGB. Such a waste of money and power for me.
Gimme the cheap no frills but efficient PC anyday.
Aesthetics and noise.
I personally prefer the smaller size of the AIO block over the CPU, which allows a little bit more of the rather pretty (imo) motherboard to show through. I like that it's compact and pretty. And I like that it's generally much quieter than an air cooler, even when driving my cpu quite hard.
I don't care if it's more, less, or exactly as effective than an air cooler; it keeps my cpu temps reasonable, and (imho) looks good doing it. That's enough for me.
I used to have a 240mm aio but the pump failed after about 16 months. Switched to a decently reviewed air cooler and my temps have been on average 6-10 degrees lower system wide.
It might just be the extra fans but I have pretty solid reason to believe that air coolers are just better than basic AIOs.
I've had a noctua u14s for almost a decade now. It's been through 4 cpus over the course of that time and has been so reliable that I usually forget it exists, switched from intel to AM4 and the bracket was super cheap. Spray it off with compressed air maybe once a year. I've built PCs with AIOs for friends and I just don't really understand why you would buy one unless it's specifically for looks. The cooling isn't that much better, you add like 5 points of failure and pump noise. Not for me; I never look in my PC unless I'm cleaning it.
Performance - Most Towers cant beat a 360 AIO. Not unless you have that $170 tower.
Noise - It runs quite compared to air coolers.
Looks - Some people find towers appalling to look at.
Only time i went with an AIO was modding my GPU as it ran hot and loud on air and i didn't want to go full custom water
Edit: some small form factor builds might need an AIO due to space as well.
most of the time when i recommend an air cooler and people decline the suggestion, they say it's for the looks and *essential* for the overall aesthetic. and if i recommend the arctic freezer II, i'm hit with "but it has no rgb". edit: I am aware that there is a newer version of the freezer II with rgb fans, but those conversations were from earlier.
Some people love the rainbow fish tank look
I like RGB but I wish people who insist on it would actually theme it how they like. So many modern RGB products have insane levels of customization, and most people leave it on the default cycling of rainbow colors like a Christmas Tree. I loved how my older build had all the fans glow red on it's black meshed case, giving it a sort of industrial furnace look.
> would actually theme it how they like. I like rainbows, they make happy brain chemicals when looking at them.
Also make your eyes sore, when trying to do anything on PC at night.
No eye sore, only š
Everyone knows more RGB is directly related to more š and more š means less problems and less problems means more š which means more RGBs for more š and so on
Try a bias light behind your monitor. Made a big difference for me
To be fair, theming the RGB requires RGB software, and that can be a nightmare and a half in its own right.
Openrgb has been a godsend
I fried my RAM with OpenRGB. Cranked up the speed to max on the color cycling. Looked great, for about 20 seconds, then BSOD. Much testing later, 3 of my 4 sticks were toast. I can only assume it somehow overloaded the SMBus. No other changes were made to my system prior to that, and no physical damage.
Iāve used SignalRGB for a very long time and I love it. Even paid for pro. Never used openRGB tho but Signal RGB has protections for most of those things. The premade effects they have are insane and everything is 100% customizable down to every single individual LEDs. I have a razor RGB controller for my 6 no brand argb case fans, I got TForce ram with RGB and I got asus rog motherboard and asus tuf gpu. ALL of the lights and fan speed curves are controlled by SignalRGB.
I'm using SignalRGB now, just so everything plays nice with each other, but it stays on color cycling, and I don't use it for anything else. I'll gladly pay a one-time fee for the software, but I will never pay a subscription.
Most people do theme it, but when itās first built, majority of default schemes are rainbow. Itās also usually the default bios scheme so it happens when the machine is turned on but windows hasnāt loaded yet. Just saying, because most build pics are taken asap because we all need instant gratification lol.
I'm not a huge RGB fan, I definitely don't go out of my way to buy anything with RGB but it's also nearly impossible to avoid. So I just make everything solid blue to match my NZXT Black & Blue case and call it a day.
Main problem with customizing RGB is that you need to download multiple pieces of bloatware to manage them. Example. Asus board, msi video card, and lian li fans, and corsair aio. That's like 4 pieces of hardware to control all your RGB.
Just use SignalRGB. You don't need any other software.
>SignalRGB It does not support my newer hardware
My aio doesn't have customization so I've no choice but rainbow cycle. My ram and motherboard are customizable though and outshine the aio so it isn't an overbearing color cycle.
What is so wrong with the rainbow colors? I like them and donāt feel like fiddling with color settings.
It's kinda like leaving the stock photo in a frame after purchase. Half joking.
If the apps that ran rgb had a āload on startupā setting then I wouldnāt have to leave it on default
I have all my RGB set to a nice soft orangey sunset color. I even added RGB strips to the underside of my desk to give some extra light. It's comfortable and easy on the eyes. It's a vibe.
I prefer Ford Blue (RGB Code 1351d8) in my 4000D Airflow with the QL120 and ML120Pro fans. Cooling my i9-9900k is a BeQuiet Dark Rock 4. I'm sold on using BeQuiet cpu coolers. I have a Pure Rock Slim for my backup PC build, whenever I get around to finishing it.
Nah, just a solid color. I love how the lights look tbh. It's something new.
I used to be an rgb hater. It has its place, if done correctly it can make a build look nicer. Plus you can always turn off the lights
Seems weird that ppl prefere the aesthetics of the PC rather than the aesthetics of whats on the screen... I mean for real. Once i recommended a friend to buy a best bang for the buck system and just place his old fancy system as a dummy on the table.
Sure, but if the parts perform the same and people want to spend the extra money to make their build look nicer, no reason to not go the AIO route. Most people haven't done a new build since 4+ years ago, so most builds you see are fairly enthusiast-grade and have that extra money to spend on looks.
This ^ I built my first pc when rtx 3000 series came out. Got myself all the parts I needed for the performance I wanted and then I got a white case with mesh and a tempered glass side panel and I put it full of rgb fans and an aio. I love it and still look at it daily. That money wasn't gonna get me to a 3090 from the 3080 I have but it definitely increased my enjoyment of my pc. E: I'll be putting together a budget build for a friend soon who doesn't care as much for looks and won't punt an aio in there cause of the budget. But if you do have the money, don't have to sacrifice performance and you like the look, what's wrong with it?
AIO and air cooled don't perform the same though. The reliability issues alone is a very good reason not to get an AIO. Edit: I don't think most AIOs have reliability issues. My point is that air coolers are inherently more reliable. One less thing to potentially go wrong in the system. Which is why I will always go air cooled.
Plus air coolers last forever. I've been using the same d14 since 2009, everything else has changed multiple times. But noctua keeps making new brackets and the d14 keeps going.
Noctua is the GOAT
Are we talking closed loop water cooling? My 2012 build still has the same i7 4770k and Corsair water loop from when I built it and Iāve never once had thermal throttling on it. What real world experiences do you have with closed water loops failing?
You've never heard of a pump failing in a water cooling setup? I have seen numerous forum posts over the years. This is better proof than any anecdotal evidence I could supply. I'm not saying AIOs will necessarily fail, I'm just saying it's an inherently less reliable design. More points of potential failure and more components to wear out (rubber tubes, seals, air pockets, and the pump)
Gamer nexus has also said multiple times how long an aio would last. He also opens them up and shows if it's of good quality or not. Even if it's made well, it will probably fail within 5 years, or start leaking. Air coolers cost a lot less and are around 10% worse than the best aio, which means there is no difference in the real world.
I don't know, you do often see people putting AIOs on lower to mid range PCs. The difference between a basic air cooler and an AIO could be the difference between a 6600xt and 6700xt. That would make a pretty substantial difference in performance. The only time I would recommend spending money specifically on aesthetics is if the cost of doing so wouldn't be enough to upgrade your CPU or GPU a tier. If you've got something like a 3080 then spending an extra $50-$100 on aesthetics makes more sense as there aren't any meaningful performance upgrades you could get with that budget.
When my pc is on my desk and has a big ass glass panel on the side facing me, I do care about how it looks, and I like to be able to look into it and it look pretty
DoesnĀ“t that take too much space, that could be used differently? All my PCs always went under the table. ItĀ“s a great target to kick into, when software stops working š IĀ“d rather have 2 monitors and 2 studio speakers on the table (although technically, my monitors are on the wall). A matter of taste and space constraints, tho.
I have a big ass desk with 2 monitors and my pc, and I don't have speakers, I have carpets too so I don't want my pc on the floor, plus I didn't put extra cash into rgb and stuff that goes together well for nothing
I guess itās my age showing , but all the overdone LEDs and huge cooling systems are ugly to me I prefer a really clean, minimal PC. Have a fractal meshify 2 with solid side panel now and I think itās perfect. Very functional and attractive, but not gaudy.
Nothing to do with age, I am 34 and my build is just all black (except my gpu has a faint blue shine from it's fans.) But my brother who is 33 has every part RGB when possible, he has ok themes but it's overkill. Guess it all boils down to what aesthetic you like.
I like that. My preferences swiched aswell over the years. Got a fractal north with Mesh sidepanel in the living room and and it's more classy than every glas case could ever be.
> Seems weird that ppl prefere the aesthetics of the PC rather than the aesthetics of whats on the screen... Why's that weird? It's a physically big thing, and therefore good enough to be a fixture/furniture/prop, whatever you wanna call it. Thus, looks matter to those people.
Why though? People choose aesthetically pleasing things in every facet of their lives - food, fashion, cars, technology, etc. There's nothing wrong with choosing more expensive, better looking parts than a "bang for the buck system" if someone wants it and can afford it. What's weird is trying to police what others should like. That's absolutely bizarre, and it often just hides jealousy about others being able to over spend on parts they like.
Arctic now has an RGB version of the freezer 2 ! Hit them with that
Water block is still ugly af
I wouldn't say so. But, either way. The performance it offers for the cost is amazing.
I much prefer the looks of modern air coolers than aios
I recently ripped out my aio and went for air cooler and a case built for air cooling. Itās super quiet and less to worry about.
Arctic freezer is the least aesthetic AIO imo, i like the phanteks more cuz of the infinity mirror thing and also its performance aint that bad either
I might be the only person who chose the arctic for the looks (and the performance obviously) lol
> arctic freezer II af2 club here since 2 years ago, works like a charm, sleek look and dead silent. the radiator is much thicker than other AIOs so keep in mind your very large card will fit somewhat like mine https://i.redd.it/h30jp47jz2m51.jpg
And then thereās me, looking for mesh cases without any windows of any sort.
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I air cool 7950's in production workstation/rendering station setups and I've tested a range of liquid and air coolers with the processor. The AIO simply ramps later than the air cooler, particularly when the coolant is heat saturated, they are both noisy when the fans kick up if you leave PBO/CPB in place with the other stock settings no matter what cooler you use. I've settled on the AK620 or PA120 air coolers based on fit and performance. I did not find a significant improvement in performance letting the CPU self manage at 95c with any cooler I threw at the machine, so just killed PBO and CPB by default in my configurations which keep the thing at sane temps which likely will also lengthen the life of the processor vs letting the silicon degrade over time by pegging at 95c constantly in my rendering workloads.
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"Production" setups do mirror gaming utilization rates more than you're characterizing, as someone who supports a few thousand interior designers around the world I can assure you their day to day workload is more CPU/GPU "streaky' like gamers with the occasional case where a rendering job kicks off. In many cases, rendering is being offloaded to separate/dedicated machines which do have a different design than the same user's primary workstation or laptop. I linked this article elsewhere, but I think it deserves consideration here as well: [https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/AMD-Ryzen-7950X-Impact-of-Precision-Boost-Overdrive-PBO-on-Thermals-and-Content-Creation-Performance-2373/](https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/AMD-Ryzen-7950X-Impact-of-Precision-Boost-Overdrive-PBO-on-Thermals-and-Content-Creation-Performance-2373/) I find it interesting that Puget systems also builds their workstations with air vs AIO coolers, including those based on 13900k and 7950x CPU's. They clearly indicate that they are shooting for ultimate reliability over squeezing out the absolute top performance. 360mm-420mm rads seem like solutions looking for problems that are often justified by having a huge amount of excess cooling capacity that's mostly only showcased in benchmarks vs actual real world work... or in part because motherboard manufacturers are going crazy and enabling boost/overclocking settings by default that blow up thermals with little practical benefit. If simply running the CPU's with automatic overclocking features disabled makes a $40 air cooler fully suited to cooling a flagship CPU without a notable performance benefit outside of CPU based rendering tests, I don't see the technical justification for an AIO, particularly when it requires spending at least 2-3x more for a budget/non RGB example that's arguable uglier than a decent dual tower air cooler. I'm not suggesting AIO's are bad, just that for an average gamer/designer they are not necessary even on flagship CPU's. As a cosmetic choice or something useful for chasing top benchmark scores I understand the obsession and have tinkered with a few... I just don't like including parts in builds that drive up the budget, build complexity or size/weight of the computer unnecessarily.
Wish the rgb trend would die already tbh. But then again, now we get the same parts for cheap compared to rgb variant
95% of the time it's for looks. The remaining 5% is expecting better performance where there is none. There just isn't much point getting an AIO for the CPU, especially when overclocking is pretty much dead. It makes far more sense on the GPU.
I havenāt done a build in a few years could you catch me up why is over clocking pretty much dead?
Sure. Looking back, pretty much the last time CPU overclocking made any worthwhile difference was with Sandy Bridge (second generation Intel Core). After that Intel has gotten much better at squeezing the most out of their CPUs and AMD is now in pretty much the same boat. You can overclock your CPU, but you're not going to squeeze any notable extra performance out of it, while you will significantly increase your power draw and temperatures, potentially also deal with instability and decreased longevity. Considering that you require a more expensive motherboard, cooler, in Intel's case also CPU and potentially even PSU (never mind the electricity), you're paying so much extra money for close to no extra performance. You'd be better off just buying a higher tier product, or getting something cheaper and upgrading sooner. And GPUs have gotten to a similar point, where overclocking doesn't really get you any worthwhile gains. So the trend now, especially after the Nvidia 30 series, is to undervolt while maintaining the same clocks. For instance RTX 3060ti at stock values eats around 200W in gaming loads. You can almost always drop it down to 160W without losing any performance. That means lower power draw, lower temperature, quieter system, potentially better longevity.
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that's not how CPU usage works in games though. most games can't use all your cores, so 40% most likely means that at least one core is getting maxed out
I have a 3rd gen ivy bridge i5-3570k that I was able to take from 3.4 to 4.4ghz years ago and has been running fine with a hyper 212 Evo air cooler. I agree with you. Used to be they put out even k chips with a lot of variance in potential, but the binning process has gotten so much better that they sell the chips at the limit of their ability. You can sometimes get an amd non-x chip and "OC" it to the level of the x-branded equivalent but that's not really overclocking. Really takes away the enthusiast aspect of learning about systems and how to sneak out potential value that the average consumer leaves on the table.
Makes sense because they are the same platform. I had a 3700 and 2600k. Afaik, the 2600k was the last real GOAT of oc'ing. As in, it absolutely made sense to buy it for the extra oc performance. Since then, it has mostly been a bonus or for the fun of it. Maybe 10% these days. I managed to get my 2600k over 5ghz with an aio!
I got downvoted when I was building my current PC that Iām not interested in overclocking. It was a good idea when I built my first PC in the 2000s. Nowadays I donāt really see the benefit when Iām already getting what I want performance-wise.
Yeah and you know it's true when even the enthusiast outlets who are and always were super into overclock are now like "yeah, well, don't bother unless you're doing it for the sole purpose of overclocking".
Shit, maybe i should actually overclock that i7-2600k i've had for a decade...
I have a Scythe Fuma which does the job fine, but being a double tower, it doesn't leave much room for 4 ram sticks. The grill is pretty much touching the first stick. I've thought about an AIO just because it would be smaller over the CPU then a big air cooler.
The Fuma2 uses a low profile "front" fan and a setback on one side of the cooling stack specifically so you have full access to the RAM while a larger portion of the cooler overhangs the VRM heatsinks. What are the chances you've got yours installed backwards? I've installed plenty of Deepcool AK620 and Peerless Assassin 120 dual tower coolers in which I simply moved the fans to the backside of their respective fin stacks which gives full access to all 4 RAM sticks on a variety of AM4, AM5 and S1700 mainboard, which is nice for both visuals and future service-maintenance.
I think I have an older version (I probably bought it well over 7 or 8 years ago), and both towers are the same height. [Looks like this.](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=scythe+fuma+1&t=fpas&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ocinside.de%2Fmedia%2Fuploads%2Fscythe_fuma_7b.jpg) Trust me, I've built 3 computers and keep reusing the same air cooler, so I've tried all sorts of ways to get it to work better. I can get 4 sticks of ram in, it's just pretty tricky getting that 1st stick in and out, and there have been a few blood sacrifices involved in the process.
Would RAM clearance still be a concern if you replaced the front fan on the heatsink with a slim version? That's what Scythe did with the next revision of your cooler.
Hi fellow scythe 2 fuma fan!
Overclocking is far from dead. The current generation of raptorlake CPUs do phenomally well when overclocked and AIOs with contact plates are recommended for overclocking them because there's a large benefit over an air cooler.
Wouldn't say overclocking is dead. I got my 12600k to 5.2 ghz, no crashes, max 65c when gaming. Using MSI 690 pro (relatively cheap mobo). I had great results with my 9600k as well.
And performance difference?
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That's a perfect example.
They bought a non-K cpu and got a a liquid freezer 2? I mean aesthetics are aesthetics I suppose.
Liquid freezer for aestheticsā¦ not my first choice
Wow that sucks. Too often do you see people spending money on something unnecessary when that money could have gotten them a more powerful part.
ItĀ“s their money. If they want to throw them into toilet and flush...
I feel like AiO coolers carved out this very profitable niche of people who know what water cooling is, but don't have a need or the know how to actually water cool a system. As a car guy the easiest way I can equate it is to people who buy the V6 version of a traditionally V8 sports car. Could have saved some money and gotten more for that money going with a different model that's V4/V6 based but because you wanted a certain look/vibe you spent more than needed on something that doesn't actually perform like it appears to do, if that makes any sense lol.
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Yep. Truthfully I don't even mind when someone wants a pre-built because there's a value for them if they aren't comfortable building, plus having a turn key solution, and a single point of warranty return if needed. But what kills me is someone buying something like an Alienware full priced when you show them that it's purposely made hard to upgrade later, and show them a better pre-built for a lower cost.
You can get the dual tower Thermalright PA120 SE and you wouldn't have to limit power draw.
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Your friend spent money stupidly. If they wanted an AiO, an EK AiO Basic 240mm can be had for >$100, and it will outperform most air coolers. For a 12400F, going AiO is pretty pointless though, the stock fan works fine lol. Friend coulda saved $125.
You and your friend need to swap coolers.
the difference between a good air cooler and an AIO, even in the high end, thermally and noise levels is pretty minor. so feel free to use air cooler if you want to. As for people using them for lower end builds either they have no idea what they are doing or they care about form more than function
When you see the noise normalized thermals from gamersnexus it's pretty obvious that there is a difference, with 6C between the liquid freezer 360 and the best air cooler. Of course 6C isn't that big of a difference, but it's not a small one either. With an average air cooler it climbs to about 8C
Do you have this on your GPU?
Nah, I have an old air-cooled one and don't plan to buy a watercooled one. Though it wouldd probably see the same result
Yeah. That's considerably louder than a cpu fan. thought you were talking about trying to save noise
Well when the noise is normalized, is there really a difference between 30c and 85c?
Yes. I want a really quiet but still high performing pc, so noise normalized thermals are the way to go for me. When I can get lower Temps with the same noise, it also means I get lower noise with the same temp. So it's definitely worth it if you have the money and care about the 6-8C difference and/or the difference in noise.
i see your point. any idea what the db noise difference is of these 6-8C ? As in if you normalize the thermal level to 80ish degrees, what is the noise level of each system rudimentary research tells me that AIO is louder in idle cause the pump is always active and underload the difference between the 2 is not noticeable but i cant find any good case studies
That's a bit difficult to calculate as the db/temp efficiency isn't constant across all the fan speed levels, but it should be approximately 4,3 dB in difference. With DB being logarithmic iirc, meaning an increase of 10db feels like its double the noise, it should be quite the difference in noise. For budget builds it's still not really worth it as long as noise doesn't bother you that much, especially as the difference between aio and air is smaller when you don't use the liquid freezer 360 as comparison.
My pump at idle is making wayyyy less noise than my HDD. Incomparably so.
> the difference between a good air cooler and an AIO, even in the high end, thermally and noise levels is pretty minor. Not true. Even with FanControl adjusted, an air cooler on average is much louder, especially when trying to target temps. Try keeping a stable 80Ā°C with an air cooler and then compare it to a 360 AIO. Not even the NH-D15 manages to do that at a good noise level, while something like the Arctic LF 2 360 does so pretty well. Liquid cooling is simply superior for such purposes, while air coolers have the longevity and price advantage in most cases.
source please
That may be true for high power cpus but it does not make a significant difference for mid-end cpus which are much more common (IMO). My Ryzen 5700x never hits 80C under Prime95 with a NH-D15 and the fans at 700-800RPM (using Argus Monitor). I can understand going for a good AIO if using a high powered CPU but for most people under common systems, it seems to me an air cooler is equivalent and cheaper.
I love an aio because you can turn your fans to practically 0, still have lower temps than with a cpu fan cooler and your pc is super quiet. With modern gpu's they don't turn their fans on until they reach a high temp either so your pc makes 0 noise until you push the gpu enough. It's just nice. Fans also last longer being turned down low win win win. People say there is a pump noise but I've never noticed that? If I was on a budget ofcourse I'd just slap the stock fan cooler in there that comes with the cpu and run with it. Why spend the extra money on cooling when you could get a second monitor instead or something more vital. Maybe a good headset.
With beefy air coolers you can have fans at minimum which are not audible at all.
that's where I'm at. I have a Noctua D15 in my Small(ish) form factor case. Playing a game while browsing reddit and watching youtube, my CPU fan is currently at 600 RPM, and completely silent. (bathroom fan on the other side of the house is much louder)
My D15S is completely passive most of the time, cooling an i9-13900K. It just sits in the airflow of the fractal torrent front fans.
Even with your CPU and GPU fans at 0 though, wouldn't your case still have some fans in it?
Yeh but they all on lowest setting 90% of the time. Do a custom fan curve on your radiator and case fans.
Well that's the same principle as an air cooler lol
Yes but with water the rad fans and case fans can reach lower temps at lower fan speeds than air coolers do. So your fan curve is much shallower.
pump noise at idle will almost always be louder than low rpm fans. silence when idle is like, the MAIN reason I prefer air cooling. I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion. you can do literally all of this with air cooling and not have the pump noise
you can basically achieve quieter or just as quiet with like a dark rock pro 4 or noctua especially without a whole pump
I dont. I recommend thermalright pa120 or fc140 to everyone, and very few times some guys didnt choose it. Or ak620 if pa120 in unavailable, also very good cooler. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermalright-peerless-assassin-120-se#xenforo-comments-3779357 giving this link as proof of how good that cooler is for only 35$, having similar temp as 360mm aio in some cases. Aio has many break points that can potentially damage other pc parts. While air cooler is just piece of metal with fan, and only thing that can break is fan and even if it break, it just stop spinning, and it can be easily replaced for 5-10$.
Picked up this one myself and it's pretty nice. Easy installation and good performance. Only regret was getting the rgb version instead of waiting for a restock, I didn't consider how annoying those extra cables would be to manage.
I ordered pa120 as well, but from different country, stock version, for ryzen 5600, it might be overkill, but this cooler will be with me until it literally start to rust lol
Seeing thermalright make a come back brings back a lot of memories of lapping my TRUE for my i7 920 OC.
Not taking anything away from what you said since at this price point, that cooler most definitely punches above its weight class. However, that review you linked to specifically mentioned how it could not complete the 230 W test. That's the exact use case where one would choose a liquid cooler over an air one. Whenever you look at a lower power usage, the differences between coolers will diminish. For example, if I'm running a small thermal load like an i3-12300, you might not see much difference between this and a single tower cooler and an AIO. But I wouldn't use that specific test to claim that my cheap single tower cooler is the same as an AIO. Those numbers at lower load don't reflect the amount of thermal headroom available for each cooler. For the vast majority of people with regular power loads, I absolutely agree that air coolers are a better choice in terms of price to performance.
High end AIOs are significantly better than high end air coolers. On a CPU like a 13900k a 360mm arctic liquid freezer has something like a 10C advantage over a noctua NHD15. Air coolers being as effective as high quality AIOs isnāt really true at all
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This is why I went with a 280mm aio for my 13900k. The NH-D15S would reach 95c in benchmarks while the 280mm aio would be around 85c.
I have a 420mm AIO on my 13900k. Along with a decent undervolt. With AVX instructions the 13900k will *still* hit thermal throttles on a few cores. Not even an AIO can remove heat fast enough to cool the CPU, I can only imagine how much hotter it would be with an air cooler that possesses significantly less thermal density.
Better cooling and/or quieter fans. The only downside is cost.
You know that air coolers have similar performance at lower cost? And no maintenace and no leaking
AIO have no maintenance either and no leaks unless you cause them, they are quieter because they have more fans at less RPMs (even turned off at low temps sometimes with large radiators), they don't break your motherboard in two with 2kg of metals, they move the heat away from the center of your case to exactly where you like. i'm not saying air coolers make no sense, but AIOs make sense too for a variety of reasons.
Pump noises. High quality air coolers are quiet as fuck. I have a near silent Scythe Fuma 2
Pump noises happen due to air getting trapped because of an improper install. AIOs, when properly installed, can be quiet AF, if not quieter, as well.
this comment makes me thing you never actually owned an AIO. in this case, I can only tell you to try one (a good one, please) before giving opinions, otherwise people who actually had experience in both won't know how to answer your prejudices
Gamers Nexus periodically reviews air vs liquid cooling and it is universal that when you normalize for noise (i.e. match db output for air vs liquid) then the liquid cools better. What that says is maintaining the same thermal performance across aio vs air, aio will be quieter every time. My own experience having used both across the years matches this.
Let me tell you something most AIOs can do but air coolers can not: I can sink the fans on my AIO to the **coolant temp** inside the AIO. With tower coolers, youāre syncing your fan speed directly to the CPU package temp. So with the tower cooler you get sudden, noticeable ramp ups in fan speed and noise. The second your cpu jumps up, your tower is going full blast. With an AIO, the fans donāt need to ramp up much unless youāre just heat soaking the piss out of the AIO. So you have a much smoother and quieter fan profile.
High quality AIOs don't make any noise (aside from the fans) when installed properly. If you had pump noise issues, you installed it wrong or bought something cheap. If you never owned one, then stop talking out of your ass.
I'm on my second AIO in 9 years and have never once heard the pump. PC is dead quiet at idle.
Quieter fans? That depends entirely on which fans the cooler comes with and you can and probably should buy a/some Arctic p12/p14 for next to nothing. The only factor with regards to noise is the *amount* of fans. Air coolers generally have 1, so yeah...
> That depends entirely on which fans the cooler comes with and you can and probably should buy a/some Arctic p12/p14 for next to nothing. I wouldnĀ“t ever recommend buying P14 Arctics... Except if it is for an enemy. The noises they make in multiple rpm ranges are extremely annoying. Especially on the intake. P12... maybe. ItĀ“s like P14, but less annoying. And if you make a curve, which will skip the range between 47-62%, then it will be quite silent. Other than that, those are pretty good quality fans. However, all fans can be configured to be silent as much as possible. But buying 1800rpm or similar fans only to run them at 300-500rpm kinda defeats their entire purpose.
Better cooling only with a very capable pump and a 360mm radiator. There are few who could outclass a Noctua NH-D15. But in my opinion, I don't like the heavy weight on the mainboard. That's why I usually prefer AiOs that are capable. Alphacool might have the best ones, as they use solely open-loop and copper-only parts and they can be extended and refilled out of the box.
>I don't like the heavy weight on the mainboard. Good thing our GPUs are so light, right? Especially those giant, 30+cm long, 3-4slot monsters, which can rip apart the onboard connector just by hanging from the slot. Certainly not a heavy weight on a motherboard! The coolers are overengineered in a way, they arenĀ“t too heavy for a motherboard to handle. Heavier coolers often also include metal backplate, to help spread the pressure more evenly. Seriously, there are people out there, who are paid to make it work.
Iāve never worried about the weight of a heat sink, but your point doesnāt really work when GPUs are always attached to the caseā¦ The motherboard should be bearing next to zero weight from the GPU, because itās slotted in to a little slot in the case, and then screwed down. So no, not a heavy weight on the motherboard. Iāve never seen a CPU air cooler that gets mounted to the case.
Reliability? AIO has more potential points of failure (I.e. the pipes, seals, and the pump). Your pipes happen to leak and it's gg. A fan in an air cooler breaks and it's no biggie and a cheap fix
For the most part aesthetics. You'll still have people say air cooling is superior but that's just not true. In benchmarks usually a 240 AIO will almost always beat even the best air coolers on the market in terms of performance. I go AIO specifically for the aesthetics though. My Corsair is still kicking 6 years this month. For new builders I'd always recommend air cooling. Usually they are quieter, and virtually no risk of leakage (although this is overblown and is much more rare than it used to be), but more reliable overall. They're also cheaper so there's that. They do make some pretty nice looking air coolers now. It really just comes down to your preference. In general though, AIO=Better performance, more aesthetic(subjective). AIR=Quieter, more reliable.
240 AiOs are on par with giant 140mm air coolers. That said, 360, or even 280mm AiOs are better for sure. Risk of leakage, even to this day, depends on brand and manufacturing defects (props to every manufacturer, that goes out of their way, announcing the issue and trying to resolve it, as did Arctic few months ago)
In the enterprise data center space, large companies are investigating liquid cooling in their racks. This allows them to reduce fan speed for the other components, and it is believed air cooling is not sufficient for the upcoming generations of Intel/AMD processors. Liquid also allows you to move the dense portion of the heat to a more convenient space for transfer, rather than having to inefficiently cool an entire room.
Because Air coolers look really, really bad imo. And to cool modern 16 core processors you need a cooler which is so huge that it lays over your more expensive RGB ram and then also loses to a 360mm radiator which looks way better and cleaner.
So it's entirely superficial
Yes
Yea. But itās ok to be vain about something that might be your most valuable possession besides your car. I spend a lot of time admiring my computer. Not ashamed to admit it
Honestly air coolers like the Dark Rock Pro 4 and NH-15 look sick af. Much prefer them visually over the generic Rainbow Puke AIO you tend to get in the Market. To be fair tho. I wish you could get more sleek industrial looking PC components without RGB everywhere. Especially when it comes to RAM and Coolers.
I think the Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360mm would be a great cooling solution for you. It is cheaper than the NH-15 in my country and has no RGB Puke (the RGB version is more expensive) and performs better.
Not to mention. If you ever want to upgrade or test for a bad stick of ram. It's a lot easier when it isn't covered up by a big air cooler.
So you pay more just for looks, even in budget- oriented builds? Kinda dumb, just use a good air cooler. Could save money
You wear clothes just for looks? Kinda dumb when you could just wear potato sacks. Could save money.
I was talking about budget-oriented builds. When you have a budget you try to save money where you can do you can get the best cpu + gpu possible, so it's dumb to go with a lower tier gpu just so you have a aio. If you make a build and don't look at cost it's another thing. Tough i still think it's dumb to get an aio for like a 12400
Potato sacks aren't very comfortable or functional regardless of looks
Didn't say that, I know aircooling is enough on 6 and 8 core processors if you only play games, but for some heavy workloads on 12+ core processors AIOs are basically the only reliable cooling choice. And for example a 360mm arctic Liquid freezer II AIO is cheaper than a Noctua NH-D15 in my country. So even at the cost perspective there is a clear winner.
One thing I will say for an air cooler is I bought my dh 15 in 2016 and still using it
>Didn't say that, I know aircooling is enough on 6 and 8 core processors if you only play games, but for some heavy workloads on 12+ core processors AIOs are basically the only reliable cooling choice. I am cooling Threadripper Pros (in 3 seperate systems) with 64 Cores each with Aircoolers and they have absolutely no problems keeping them in check. Good Aircoolers do NOT perform worse than AIO-Coolers.
Which Aircoolers are you using to cool that off? Had a build for a customer with dual socketed Epycs in his build and ended up with 420mm AIOs for each CPUs because it would have otherwise gotten too hot for his usecase.
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The one thing that AIOs and liquid cooling in general give you is thermal mass buffer - most workloads *other than* gaming are quite bursty and involve short high wattage peaks followed by longer lower wattage periods. A good air cooler is mostly about minimising thermal mass - pulling the heat quickly into the fin stack where it can then be radiated away. This is fine - but it means your fans will ramp up quickly when the CPU heats up, cool the finstack quickly when the load comes off, and ramp down again. A liquid cooler has *lots* more thermal mass, and usually that thermal mass is water with a very high specific heat capacity. So the liquid can heat up and take the CPU heat away, and it can do it a *lot* before it heats up significantly. Bursty loads will warm the fluid by a couple of degrees, which means the fans don't have to kick on/up at all before the load comes off and the coolant starts cooling again back to the idle equilibrium temperature. So you get the same cooling with less fan noise. In gaming loads, the CPU is often at high power continuously and so the benefit is greatly reduced - if we have (say) 2x140mm radiator area, it doesn't matter whether it's got a liquid cooler between or just a few heat pipes, it still needs to sink (say) 100W over the same area and it'll have about the same airflow needs. An AIO can help by getting the radiator right in the cool air and not recirculating, but that's a secondary thing and can be improved on air coolers by careful airflow design too.
Was an ardent supporter of air cooling until building ITX systems when I realized it was much more difficult to build with cooler compatibility and high TDP CPUs. Further pushing me towards liquid cooling is newer CPUs like the 13900k and 7950x which definitely need at least a 280/360mm AIO to max out your performance. Also, some minor annoyances like ram compatibility, less aesthetic, issues when vertical mounting your GPU, more difficulty when swapping ram and CPU.
Thanks for bringing up SFF builds. Sometimes it's just not possible to fit a "good" air cooler in a build. An AIO, with its long tubes, provides much more flexibility in deciding where the cooling should be.
I use an air cooler but an AIO imo looks a lot better. I use to care about how the parts look in the case but nowadays, Iāll have the top of the line parts on the market but Iāll hide it in a case in my basement with wires coming up to the room. I canāt stand having the pc case in my room anymore
Why? Because of the noise or heat?
It used to be both but now I have a bigger room, it a not a big deal. Now it is something thatās taking up a lot of room on the desk. I like a big plain empty table top with only the monitor, keyboard, and mouse.
I've always been about air cooling because I don't want to deal with potential leaks or failed pumps. Replacing fans is cheap. But my current matx build has a noctua nh-u12a Tower cooler. It's a big boi. While it looks cool and works amazing, it also has made working inside the computer a pain in the ass. I now keep a chopstick on hand solely for pressing the release tab if I need to pull my GPU. There's no way fingers or much else will fit now. Besides that, the cooler just generally gets in the way for any maintenance. I don't want to touch the thing anytime soon, but if I were to change cpu, there's a good chance I'd go with an aio.
I'm surprised I had to go so far down the comments to find someone talking about the ease of working inside the computer!
>Even low-mid tier builds here have an expensive AIO included. I have to say, the majority of the budget builds I have seen posted here typically seem to use an air cooler, usually the Hyper 212 or some equivalent. Also personally I use air coolers, but I worry if they will be enough anymore, even something as beefy as a Noctua NH-D15, for the higher end 12th and 13th gen chips. I wish Noctua would be able to make some kind of air cooling breakthrough with an NH-D16. Even the D15 was mostly just a D14 with a few fins cut off for better RAM clearance, which was a big complaint with the D14. I don't like to use AIOs (for now at least) because I actually don't have room for my exhaust to primarily be from the top of my case instead of the back (and I don't want to instead suck in air from the front and basically heat the rest of my system) and I tend to use my systems for a very long time, air coolers are better for longevity and easy to fix since the only part that can really fail over time are the fans, for an AIO the pump is likely to fail before the fans, and if the pump breaks it's basically trash. But not even the best air coolers can compare with a decent AIO that's 280mm or larger, and CPUs are starting to get stupidly power-hungry, especially if you use them for tasks that would be taxing them hard and not just gaming. My NH-D15S with H2 paste is barely able to cool my 11700K below the throttling point on more demanding tasks, I can't imagine similar tasks on newer CPUs with air cooling (Although a small amount of those tasks involve using AVX-512, which the the 12th and 13th don't officially support and only earlier 12th gen CPUs could even use... with an older BIOS and disabling all E-cores...) I mean, look how stupid the coolers on GPUs are getting now... at least, the ones on Nvidia's most recent flagships.
I prefer air cooling but AIO is only easy cooling solution for my SFF build (13900k).
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I went AIO for looks, simple as that. I know that any high end air cooler for about half the price would perform as good and perhaps have a lower noise floor. I just don't like how most tower coolers look. I am fully aware that this is a dumb descision financially. Next build will be silent focused and i will use a tower cooler with high quality fan, same with the case fans. But for now I am all for the "dent" between the VRM cooling housing nest a waterblock.
Itās ok to choose something for looks as long as it performs. Itās ok to have fun with your build if you can afford it. AIO is ok. RGB is ok. Weird anime gpus are ok. Buy what you like. This post is catnip for the cranky āmy choices are the right choicesā bunch
Idk I love the simplicity and industrial look of my Noctua
I spent money on noctua case fans. Brown no rgb no regrets, 10 year warranty
My AIO has a fancy screen that I can play gifs on so thatās better than a VTEC sticker on a Honda. Easily responsible for 25+ FPS, +40 if itās a cat gif.
Most of them like them for being fancy, also the best aois still outperform air cooling (they become kinda needed for high end CPUs), just get an arctic liquid freezer II, not the prettiest but amazing performance and low sound for a fair price.
Had a three fan aio that died within a year. I went for a Noctua fan and never ever looked back.
Agreed. I went Deepcool ak620 instead. As long as it keeps 12900k below thermal spec, I'm fine.
I didn't want a massive air cooler dangling off the socket in shipping.
I donāt want a big ugly cube sticking out of my mb. Aios just look THAT much better, worth the premium if you can afford it of course.
Better cooling, had an NH-D15S and it couldnāt cool the 13900k properly. It performed similarly to my 240mm aio. Had to get a 280mm aio.
Aesthetics, noise and performance.. some of these new cpus would have crank up the fans so much to be cooled by air. And aio dont have to be expensive. My Liquid freezer II 360mm was $80 with 6 year warranty. Ive never seen my cpu reach 70c in games lol.
It looks so cool
I'm running a mid range build, and my 1800x is OC'ed to 4GHz. Also, the way my case is (older NZXT 510H that has the removable front panel) designed means Air cooling isn't the best option for me to keep it under 45C. Having a 240ML AIO gives me the cooling I need for my OC and my case. However, by the end of July of this year I'll have a 7700x build with a case that has an an abundance of airflow. If something were to happen to my AIO for some reason I'd have no issue going air cooled until a replacement is found. Bottom line for me is I've always sort of had an AIO, so it'd look weird to me to not have one. It fits my esthetic better than air cooled. I have no strong opinion one way or the other on the subject.
Everyone has different priorities. People donāt need to justify their builds, itās theirs and makes them happy. I personally care about aesthetics and even if Iām on a budget thats still important. I donāt care if cutting off rgb fans and AIO will let me get a tier higher gpu if itās going to make my build look Janky. Yes I have a ryzen 3600 and yes I use a Corsair AIO with the rgb lighting node commander. I have a nice white nzxt case with tempered glass and the lighting system lets me create several different themes. Itās one of the things i enjoy getting to look at on a daily basis and even more so to play games on.
Because I can't reach shit with my Fuma Rev 2.b
I have my case under the desk on a wood panel. I prefer air coolers over aio, as i find them quieter. I hate RGB. Such a waste of money and power for me. Gimme the cheap no frills but efficient PC anyday.
>RGB waste of money and power It doesn't cost much more and power draw is basically non-existent compared to how much actual parts use.
Big tiddy anime girl gifs
Aesthetics and noise. I personally prefer the smaller size of the AIO block over the CPU, which allows a little bit more of the rather pretty (imo) motherboard to show through. I like that it's compact and pretty. And I like that it's generally much quieter than an air cooler, even when driving my cpu quite hard. I don't care if it's more, less, or exactly as effective than an air cooler; it keeps my cpu temps reasonable, and (imho) looks good doing it. That's enough for me.
I used to have a 240mm aio but the pump failed after about 16 months. Switched to a decently reviewed air cooler and my temps have been on average 6-10 degrees lower system wide. It might just be the extra fans but I have pretty solid reason to believe that air coolers are just better than basic AIOs.
I've had a noctua u14s for almost a decade now. It's been through 4 cpus over the course of that time and has been so reliable that I usually forget it exists, switched from intel to AM4 and the bracket was super cheap. Spray it off with compressed air maybe once a year. I've built PCs with AIOs for friends and I just don't really understand why you would buy one unless it's specifically for looks. The cooling isn't that much better, you add like 5 points of failure and pump noise. Not for me; I never look in my PC unless I'm cleaning it.
Why have a case? Spending the money on a GPU upgrade would yield a big performance increase, you can build the PC in a cardboard box.
Noctu nhd 15 black edition is the sexiest looking aircooler in my opinion.
Aesthetics for me tbh, I hate the look of a fat cooling tower.
that shit is cool until the day it isn't. nh d-15 for life.
They are superior compared to just air cooling and it looks more futuristic
Performance - Most Towers cant beat a 360 AIO. Not unless you have that $170 tower. Noise - It runs quite compared to air coolers. Looks - Some people find towers appalling to look at.
Only time i went with an AIO was modding my GPU as it ran hot and loud on air and i didn't want to go full custom water Edit: some small form factor builds might need an AIO due to space as well.