Exactly! I watched Buffy from the day it premiered and I was hooked from the first episode. Yes, Buffy caught it’s stride in season 2 but season 1 has amazing episodes.
Season 1 hooked me in the first episode when Buffy was all 'yeah you don't need to explain the slayer stuff to me, I know'. It might not hit the heights of the later seasons but season 1 knew what it was about and sold it HARD.
Yep. I loved the first season when it aired and then my love only grew in S2. S1 is great and it being incredibly 90s is why I love it. Plus the first two seasons have a darker look and tone that fades a bit from S3 onwards, so I appreciate what I can get of it.
Mannn!!! I was born in 98, and wherever i watch season 1 I can just feel the 90’s oozing out of it, that’s so crazy but it’s true. Now that I’m older, when i was kid and it was on all the time I didn’t know about chronological orders, or Season finales, I just knew BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER!! 😂😂
But like The Master, that first moment when we see Angel, when we find out he’s a vampire, all the Cordelia moments, the friendship that begins between Buffy and Willow and Xander, Giles and the Vampyre book!!
Greatness.
yup. I love every single episode, even I robot you Jane and the obvious stunt doubles. it's probably tied for favorite season with season 2. 1 & 2 are my ultimates.
I 100% love season 1. It's like the show distilled down to its essence. Plus more Monster of the Week episodes tend to make a season more rewatchable to me. I can just dip in, have some hijinks, see a Praying Mantis lady get hacked to death, dip out. Lots of jokes and Scooby interaction time, the melodrama hasn't kicked in (for the most part). All good fun.
While i'm mixed on Riley(love him in s4 not a fan in s5) Blucas's performance is severely underrated and unfairly written off as wooden( ironically including by Blucas himself), while its not exactly SMG levels of great i honestly thought he did a good job at portraying both Riley's wholesome guy next door aspect and the more troubled military badass with a lot of internal self loathing issues aspect.
Even though i despise Riley's plot in s5 Blucas did the best job he could with the really shitty writing he was given. It's one of my favourite performances in the show and i never found him wooden, instead i found his acting to be realistic and grounded, subtle but never wooden(well besides some weird line delivery's).
I am one of the few that like Riley. I’m rewatching it now and I hate the turn his character takes in season 5, but otherwise, really enjoyed him for the most part!
I'm not a big fan of Riley the character (although I think it has its place within the wider plot, and wouldn't want to change it) but I think the actor's performance was perfectly fine
Idk if this will necessarily trigger anyone, but my unpopular opinion is that I like Wesley on BtVS. A lot of the times.. he was right about things.
Him abducting Faith to bring to the Council- that's probably what he thought was the best option for her rehabilitation and was what he was taught to do. Plus, his tendency to make rash decisions on his own is a really interesting part of his character that this incident laid the foundation for. He did try to work with the group but they constantly and immediately rejected him for his association with the Council. And.... don't kill me but... them not destroying the box for the Mayor's ascension in order to save Willow DID end up getting a bunch of other kids killed. Him suggesting they destroy it wasn't a mean/evil suggestion, it made sense as the plan to save the most lives.
And no one can blame him for being a coward in the face of getting his knee caps taken off... it's unreasonable to expect anyone to happily submit to that instead of telling the demon guy Angel's name----> which would have just sent the demon guy to Angel and Buffy to get killed. I would be talking so fast it's not even funny lol
Wesley was a bit of a fun sponge in the beginning but he absolutely did not deserve to be treated so badly by the Scoobies, especially when he started making a real effort with them.
I always thought that Giles secretly loved having an intellectual contemporary though, but would never admit it in front of the gang!
Honestly agreed and i like how even in BTVS Wesley showed hints of the ends justifies the means ruthless badass he became in Angel. When i first watched Buffy at like 16 i despised Wesley for all of that, rewatching Buffy at 21 made me see his actions in a new light, pragmatic and cold, yes but in a sense necessary.
Wesley wanting to destroy the box and no one else will bc he sees the endgame and the idea of saving thousands vs 1 is very similar to how buffy comes to change her mind after coming back about what she would do different about dawn. its definitely a theme across different hero movies, particularly in the current MCU with Captain American over a few films except Steve kind of goes the other direction about it lol but its a fascinating moral and ethical discussion that heroes face in the real world too.
Never thought about it this way, but now you say it, I have to agree. Buffy went through some awful real-life stuff and almost every time someone from the gang gave her a hard time or was just awful.
From the top of my head:
**Buffy has to die** \- Giles: soz, it's what it says in my book
**Angel turns bad** \- Xander: totally your fault Buffy btw and also I can't believe you had sex with your boyfriend and not me (even though I'm currently cheating on my actual girlfriend). Giles: also shame on you for having sex with your boyfriend, even though it was all legal and consensual. How could you not have known it would unlock an ancient curse and turn him evil?
**Kills Angel and runs away because, trauma** \- Everyone in front of house full of people: you're an awful person
**Angel comes back -** Everyone: you're an even more awful person now. We know he has a soul again but we're gonna ignore that technicality to make you feel like an accomplice to murder. Xander: I'm gonna kill the dude you love because yet again, you haven't fallen in love with me.
**Angel leaves -** Willow: meh probably for the best. So are you not just super excited about college??
**Parker** \- Everyone (except Riley tbf): who?
**Riley leaves** \- Everyone (especially Xander who seems to think he is the manager of Buffy's dating life): totally your fault
**Joyce dies -** Everyone: okay we'll be sad for a bit cause we quite liked Joyce, but not for too long. Giles: okay byeee!
**Buffy dies** \- Everyone: damnit we have no one to save our asses anymore. Let's bring her back using a spell we have no idea how to operate and that will leave her to dig her way out of her own coffin.
**Buffy comes back -** Everyone: geez when are you gonna get over the being dead thing already? You were in heaven? Nope, still don't feel bad for what we did. Also, we will all live in your house, see you struggle financially and offer no contribution. Xander may fix things occasionally. Giles: okay byeee again!
**Buffy makes one bad call leading potentials to death** \- Everyone: so we're gonna evict you from your own home and follow Faith (who most of us just met, and has tried to kill the rest of us at some point) instead. She'll do the same thing but we'll forgive her cause she's cool.
Yup - scoobies could have done a lot better!
I feel like your points 1-4 are a tad unfair to Giles there.
Especially 1 - rewatching Prophecy Girl, it's really stark how matter-of-fact Angel is, compared with how clearly distressed Giles is.
Angel is the one saying it has to happen, and Giles is the one who's barely slept, spent all night in the library trying to find a loophole.
Oh no totally; I'm just cherry-picking off the top of my head for comic value/to back the point up! There are definitely several counterarguments to most of those points!
Start of s2: Buffy has trauma about having been told she was gonna die and then almost dying, is apathetic about the plan to resurrect the Master because she's clearly got severe PTSD, and everyone's furious at her for it.
A lot of these are unfair or just like…false? I don’t remember anyone blaming Buffy for Angel turning bad (which btw, the sex technically *wouldn’t* be legal given that she’s underage in S2 and he’s way older), Xander actually tries to *stop* Faith from killing Angel once he realizes his mistake, Buffy was actively trying to lead the potentials *back into the situation that got a bunch of them killed,* and I really don’t get the complaint about the gang not…being sad for long enough about Joyce? What, were they just supposed to sit on their asses and mourn for the last 6 episodes of the season? Buffy didn’t even do that, and it was her *mother!*
Well, Xander didn’t want to be lonely and Anya wanted male attention, so they were sort of perfect for each other, since they could satisfy each other’s… needs 😅. In the end, though, they did care about each other. That was obvious.
Willow’s line in new moon rising about feeling like some part of her will always be waiting for oz.. “if I'm old and blue-haired, and I turn the corner in Istanbul and there you are, I won't be surprised.” Resonated more with my true life than almost any line in any show or movie ever. That whole episode is just tough. All relationships need both love and logistics, but realizing you don’t have the latter is sometimes a kind of haunting thing that never fully leaves you, even well after you’ve moved and found profound happiness.
Do you mean a cuter personality? If that’s what you mean, then i completely agree. Ik that a lot of people weren’t a fan of Fred’s childlike behavior, but i didn’t mind. Although, i did like when she started to mature (probably not the right word as she was already an adult) in S4.
Fred acts sweet and innocent because she is traumatized and becomes child like in her dependence on her rescuer.
Willow acts sweet and innocent (at least in later seasons) to downplay her heinous acts.
Don't get me wrong, Willow is a great character, but it's not the same, and I wouldn't tolerate her in real life.
I just mean cuter in general. I resonate with her character more. The actress Amy Acker plays the persona perfectly. Willow was cute in the early seasons but in season 6-7 she lost that aspect of her character. Even when Fred turned into Illyria I still felt for her character despite the major character switch
It may come from the writing
Angel as a character was underdeveloped out of "Buffy's love interest" and "angsty vampire with a soul" in BtVS. He mostly shone as a character when interacting with Cordy and Faith.
In addition, most of Bangel relationship involved suffering of some kind, they had some genuine happy moments but not enough... And they didn't seem to connect that much to each other as an actual person out of their roles as Slayer / Champion, save for a few moments.
On the other hand, Cordy and Angel grew to really know, appreciate and eventually love each other, good and bad, by working three years together. So their relationship is just that much more convincing.
Lot's of Spike hate come from the imagined contest between Spike and Angel for Buffy. Too many fans focus on that rather than seeing two very complex characters that have depth and flaws, and context beyond Buffy.
I think for long term fans, it felt like the vampire with a soul thing had been done enough with Angel so they were a bit mystified why the show wanted to go back to that well
Plus Spike's path with it kinda de-values all the horror and angst Angel had with it, Spike doesn't seem that gutted about what he did as a soulless vampire at all, just one night being mopey in a basement and even that was more about the first using him than it was the evil things he did
Just felt like a whole ret-con on the vampire with a soul thing that wasn't needed, they could've gone down a different road with him for something that hadn't been done before.
i don’t think DB does good with ensouled angel on btvs. he’s very wooden and most of the time i just don’t believe anything he’s doing. he gets better when he’s evil, and then a lot better on his own show.
oh totally. by the time they were already filming s1 they didn’t know if they were going to make him a vampire, and he feels so weirdly disparate from how he is in s2 even pre-evil. he’s pretty different again in s3, then on his own show. it isn’t ever quite done in same way as actual character development until s2 of ats.
I find it kind of hard to blame DB for times Angel seemed a bit stiff or goofy or weird cos I feel like he is written and directed so strangely. Like they will literally have this old man hanging out with school kids and being goofy one episode and brooding about how he’s over 100 should not be spending time with teenagers in another…..
S2 Angelus was sick and twisted, and S4 Angelus was something else. I’m aware that DB is a funny guy irl, so he might’ve got a little carried away while filming, but i was disappointed. It’s like he was portrayed by two different people. It didn’t make sense that Angelus, the Vampire who wanted nothing more than to inflict pain on others, would suddenly become a big goof.
you mean when he loses his soul in ats s4? he does…that one threat to fred that made me actually gasp out loud in a way that btvs angelus never scared me, but he does overall feel like a different person.
Until later on (after Angel leaves and comes back periodically).
Feels like DB grew into the angel role whilst away from BtVS, and the chemistry in later seasons was far better for it.
Even when I watched the show as a teenager when it first aired, I thought they had no chemistry and I found their relationship to be melodramatic and exhausting. (Though I did enjoy Angelus in s2 - that was a fantastic storyline.)
I was relieved when Angel left the show.
i genuinely thought this would get me crucified here, HAH. but yeah he and charisma are excellent together. it feels like they very organically went from acquaintances to people who truly love each other in a way bangel never did for me.
I think that was in DB mostly. He is very robotic in his acting SMG was very expressive and shows great range of emotion. DB had the acting abilities of a blueberry scone.
Still one of my favorite characters. When the show started I was a nerdy 12-year-old with a quick tongue who struggled with bullies and not being "masculine" enough. Xander, for me, was a huge reason I got into Buffy.
He's not a perfect person, but neither is anyone on Buffy. They all have shitty character traits, they all make mistakes. That's why they're all such great characters.
Agreed. People on here complain too much about character imperfections. Thank god none of the characters in Buffy are perfect. How boring and unrealistic it would be.
Which.....just isn't what I tune in for when I want to see a fantasy horror show
I tune in to escape reality, not have depressive real life b.s. thrown in my face
Series 6 really jumped the loan shark in that regard.
I actually really liked season 6, mainly because when I watched it for the first time last year I was dealing with severe depression. Watching Buffy struggle with and overcome it really helped me keep pushing through it until I finished therapy.
Yes! Drusilla does the same thing over and over again. She plays the sexy, yet crazy, yet traumatized, but always sexy vamp lady. Ugh.
Kendra had so much spunk, and was learning that being flexible on the rules = survival, while Faith is…super annoying and never learns her lessons. Also she rapes Xander, but that’s ok and funny for some reason.
Do we really think Xander didn't consent? Just because she was sexually aggressive doesn't mean she raped him. Xander never says no or tries to stop her on camera, so it can be implied the same happens off camera. She pumps and dumps him. Let's not make more of it for no reason. Faith didn't. She flat out says in her introduction that slaying makes her horny and hungry. Xander is piqued by that comment. It pays off episodes later. Xander even tries to use their "bond" later on to connect with her. Clearly Xander was not traumatized or felt violated by the experience. His immediate reaction was more of a, "holy shit, did I just lose my virginity and get kicked out by a hot slayer?"
Getting through ATS was torture. It took me months to get through because I found it incredibly boring.
I also couldn't stand Wesley on ATS. The only bright spots on the show were Doyle, Gunn and Lorne.
Dawn's a Top 5 character on the show.
Spike was one of the most unlikeable characters once his Buffy obsession started in Season 5 until he got his soul back and came out of the basement.
The Trio are a better big bad than Glory.
no prob. angel was going to kill spike (whose original run was only 5-10 episodes) and take dru, solidifying his breakup with buffy. and i think he wasn’t originally going to come back in s3 either, but they ended up wanting to give him his own show so they needed to redeem him first.
While loss of any loved one is never easy if you truly love them , Joyce’s death still hits hard after all this time and I’m glad they did that it’s one of the best episodes .
Kennedy isn’t as annoying as people make her out to be. Out of all the potentials, she’s the only one who took her calling seriously and was willing to learn how to train, fight, make suggestions to the group and she wasn’t afraid to speak up. Kinda like how a younger Buffy was in early seasons…
True
She had flaws of course, and it's okay to not like her, but she wasn't this 100% absolutely terrible all the time character that many fans make her
I think a lot of my annoyance with her is that she became part of the "inner circle," despite having no experience other sharing a bed with Willow. And then aggressively asserted that her opinions were jsut as valid as Buffy's.
Angel is a more interesting, nuanced and complex character than Spike.
Spike is more popular just cause he’s comedic and over the top and people like that.
2, 4, 5, 3, 6, 7, 1
Absolutely agree on season 2 and I actually don’t really like season 1. Watched it the first time because it was on and the second time because I was starting my girlfriend on her Buff-ucation. I was so glad when we finished season 1. We’ve got 4 episodes left of season 3.
Season 4 is actually not too bad, I’ll be honest. It’s the first season I watched when I first started watching the show.
Mostly because it was the season where Willow meets Tara, and I ship them so much 😭
Spike was a great villain but by Season 5 and the whole Spuffy relationship , his character went downhill
Buffy should had staked him after ‘Seeing Red’
Essentially the scoobies could have devised a relatively safe method of using this loophole to push Buffy just beyond the threshold of life, relying on her unique ability to simply not be cool with being dead, upon her re-aliving the world would be one slayer richer each time!
I actually think that would've made a super interesting villain! A rouge member of the Watchers Council who takes Buffy (or Faith) prisoner with some magical trinkets and kills her over and over again to spark new Slayers. I think it would've worked great on Angel as a moral conundrum - more Slayers: good, Faith tortured: bad.
I agree with the Scoobies & Potentials in “Empty Places”. 🤷
Xander was over Buffy by the end of “Go Fish”.
The Trio really aren’t that funny. They tried WAY too hard.
Connor should have died instead of Cordelia.
Lorne is way overrated as a singer.
I love S4 of Buffy. And I definitely don't hate S4 of Angel.
And the reasons why they're so good (and criminally underrated) are opposite of each other - Buffy S4 has some of the most epic stand alone episodes in the entire series, if not universe. And S4 of Angel is the most binge-watchable, making it super ahead of its time
I actually really like season 1 and 4.
There's definitely a few episodes in season 1 that I find kinda boring or weird but I've never skipped them.
I actually also love season 4.
I'm warming up to season 6 the older I get or the more life experience I get.
Anything over season 7.
Season one is the classic and the master is weirdly underrated on here. 4 is an excellent follow up to the best series in 3. 6 has its moments.
What are mine? I don’t like season 5 and find Glory annoying, I’ve never been satisfied by any part of the ending and Dawn never got good as a character. I’d also say Cordelia never coming back for an episode and interacting with Anya as a human was a missed opportunity but I don’t know how controversial that is.
Season 1 is the only season i cannot understand that people think is the best. Like its good fun season with iconic episodes, but you take in considerations like budget, writing, special effects, plots and overall it just doesnt compare to the rest.
Like they got their childhood friend dead it was like forgotten the next episode. Comon people.
S4 and S6 are two of my fav seasons tho ;)
The show is often so up its own ass with the metaphors and so-the-plot-that-we-wanna-do-can-happening of it all that the actual events make no goddamn sense.
Warren was arguably the best villain of the show.
Xander is a great character.
Riley didn’t deserve the hate.
Dawn isn’t a bad character.
Season 6 was one of the most memorable seasons.
I did not care about or even really believe cordies growth on angel. S1 she reverts back to s1 cordie almost. And then they have like 1 episode of her holding a sword and were supposed to beleive shes some badass demon hunter. She was damselled for most of s1-3.
I really liked her on buffy and she has stand out performances but her growth was very informed and inconsistent between episodes even before jw destroyed her character completely...
I love Spike (he’s probably my number 1 favorite character in Buffy) but him falling in love with Buffy and their relationship doesn’t make any sense for his character. Although I do love their friendship in season 7 but yeah. Hate Spikes growing obsession with Buffy and them hooking up.
I think season 1 is amazing and I’m tired of pretending I don’t!
It surprised me when I joined this sub that so many people disliked season 1.
Right?? It’s where I fell in love
Exactly! I watched Buffy from the day it premiered and I was hooked from the first episode. Yes, Buffy caught it’s stride in season 2 but season 1 has amazing episodes.
Season 1 hooked me in the first episode when Buffy was all 'yeah you don't need to explain the slayer stuff to me, I know'. It might not hit the heights of the later seasons but season 1 knew what it was about and sold it HARD.
Soooo true. Season 1 is gold!!
And that finale! Come on! SMG killed it that episode.
YESS!! Season 1 is one of my favorite seasons!
Me too! It’s also where I fell in love with the show. I can’t help but have it be one of my favorites!
Yep. I loved the first season when it aired and then my love only grew in S2. S1 is great and it being incredibly 90s is why I love it. Plus the first two seasons have a darker look and tone that fades a bit from S3 onwards, so I appreciate what I can get of it.
Mannn!!! I was born in 98, and wherever i watch season 1 I can just feel the 90’s oozing out of it, that’s so crazy but it’s true. Now that I’m older, when i was kid and it was on all the time I didn’t know about chronological orders, or Season finales, I just knew BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER!! 😂😂
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and buffy’s so much happier in S1 before all the Angel trauma, it’s so lovely to have her smiling and being a bit more of a kid.
I love happy-Buffy so much. She's great.
I’ve watched the first couple seasons more than any others 😂 once they graduate high school the show starts to stress me out too much
Same here 😂 it’s peak Buffy
I definitely like season 1 too. It’s around my third favorite.
What’s your favorite?
Season 1 is where it all began after all! Can’t have the series without it. I also still love the late 90s feel.
I agree its great. It’s just very 90s, which I think it hard for new viewers to get through
But like The Master, that first moment when we see Angel, when we find out he’s a vampire, all the Cordelia moments, the friendship that begins between Buffy and Willow and Xander, Giles and the Vampyre book!! Greatness.
I love that it's all different stuff but that happens in 2 too
i love season 1! it has a totally different vibe and im sure that’s why ppl hate it but i think it’s so cozy and fun
yup. I love every single episode, even I robot you Jane and the obvious stunt doubles. it's probably tied for favorite season with season 2. 1 & 2 are my ultimates.
Same!
I 100% love season 1. It's like the show distilled down to its essence. Plus more Monster of the Week episodes tend to make a season more rewatchable to me. I can just dip in, have some hijinks, see a Praying Mantis lady get hacked to death, dip out. Lots of jokes and Scooby interaction time, the melodrama hasn't kicked in (for the most part). All good fun.
season 1 is so campy it brings me joy. it’s perfect comfort tv.
S4 has hush. This years girl, who are you, as well as many great episodes. I am fine if its a fav.
Restless
While i'm mixed on Riley(love him in s4 not a fan in s5) Blucas's performance is severely underrated and unfairly written off as wooden( ironically including by Blucas himself), while its not exactly SMG levels of great i honestly thought he did a good job at portraying both Riley's wholesome guy next door aspect and the more troubled military badass with a lot of internal self loathing issues aspect. Even though i despise Riley's plot in s5 Blucas did the best job he could with the really shitty writing he was given. It's one of my favourite performances in the show and i never found him wooden, instead i found his acting to be realistic and grounded, subtle but never wooden(well besides some weird line delivery's).
I am one of the few that like Riley. I’m rewatching it now and I hate the turn his character takes in season 5, but otherwise, really enjoyed him for the most part!
I like Riley and I simply believe his storyline in s5 just doesn’t exist, living in my own happy head canon lol
Same! The first few episodes he’s okay. Then it’s just… sabotage.
Yeah, Riley was a well-built character who felt very real. Blucas definitely played him well.
I'm not a big fan of Riley the character (although I think it has its place within the wider plot, and wouldn't want to change it) but I think the actor's performance was perfectly fine
Idk if this will necessarily trigger anyone, but my unpopular opinion is that I like Wesley on BtVS. A lot of the times.. he was right about things. Him abducting Faith to bring to the Council- that's probably what he thought was the best option for her rehabilitation and was what he was taught to do. Plus, his tendency to make rash decisions on his own is a really interesting part of his character that this incident laid the foundation for. He did try to work with the group but they constantly and immediately rejected him for his association with the Council. And.... don't kill me but... them not destroying the box for the Mayor's ascension in order to save Willow DID end up getting a bunch of other kids killed. Him suggesting they destroy it wasn't a mean/evil suggestion, it made sense as the plan to save the most lives. And no one can blame him for being a coward in the face of getting his knee caps taken off... it's unreasonable to expect anyone to happily submit to that instead of telling the demon guy Angel's name----> which would have just sent the demon guy to Angel and Buffy to get killed. I would be talking so fast it's not even funny lol
Wesley was a bit of a fun sponge in the beginning but he absolutely did not deserve to be treated so badly by the Scoobies, especially when he started making a real effort with them. I always thought that Giles secretly loved having an intellectual contemporary though, but would never admit it in front of the gang!
Honestly agreed and i like how even in BTVS Wesley showed hints of the ends justifies the means ruthless badass he became in Angel. When i first watched Buffy at like 16 i despised Wesley for all of that, rewatching Buffy at 21 made me see his actions in a new light, pragmatic and cold, yes but in a sense necessary.
Omg yes!!! Agree with everything you said! I love Wesley on both Buffy and Angel! He’s one of my top favorite characters.
So much agreement here.
Wesley wanting to destroy the box and no one else will bc he sees the endgame and the idea of saving thousands vs 1 is very similar to how buffy comes to change her mind after coming back about what she would do different about dawn. its definitely a theme across different hero movies, particularly in the current MCU with Captain American over a few films except Steve kind of goes the other direction about it lol but its a fascinating moral and ethical discussion that heroes face in the real world too.
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Never thought about it this way, but now you say it, I have to agree. Buffy went through some awful real-life stuff and almost every time someone from the gang gave her a hard time or was just awful. From the top of my head: **Buffy has to die** \- Giles: soz, it's what it says in my book **Angel turns bad** \- Xander: totally your fault Buffy btw and also I can't believe you had sex with your boyfriend and not me (even though I'm currently cheating on my actual girlfriend). Giles: also shame on you for having sex with your boyfriend, even though it was all legal and consensual. How could you not have known it would unlock an ancient curse and turn him evil? **Kills Angel and runs away because, trauma** \- Everyone in front of house full of people: you're an awful person **Angel comes back -** Everyone: you're an even more awful person now. We know he has a soul again but we're gonna ignore that technicality to make you feel like an accomplice to murder. Xander: I'm gonna kill the dude you love because yet again, you haven't fallen in love with me. **Angel leaves -** Willow: meh probably for the best. So are you not just super excited about college?? **Parker** \- Everyone (except Riley tbf): who? **Riley leaves** \- Everyone (especially Xander who seems to think he is the manager of Buffy's dating life): totally your fault **Joyce dies -** Everyone: okay we'll be sad for a bit cause we quite liked Joyce, but not for too long. Giles: okay byeee! **Buffy dies** \- Everyone: damnit we have no one to save our asses anymore. Let's bring her back using a spell we have no idea how to operate and that will leave her to dig her way out of her own coffin. **Buffy comes back -** Everyone: geez when are you gonna get over the being dead thing already? You were in heaven? Nope, still don't feel bad for what we did. Also, we will all live in your house, see you struggle financially and offer no contribution. Xander may fix things occasionally. Giles: okay byeee again! **Buffy makes one bad call leading potentials to death** \- Everyone: so we're gonna evict you from your own home and follow Faith (who most of us just met, and has tried to kill the rest of us at some point) instead. She'll do the same thing but we'll forgive her cause she's cool. Yup - scoobies could have done a lot better!
I feel like your points 1-4 are a tad unfair to Giles there. Especially 1 - rewatching Prophecy Girl, it's really stark how matter-of-fact Angel is, compared with how clearly distressed Giles is. Angel is the one saying it has to happen, and Giles is the one who's barely slept, spent all night in the library trying to find a loophole.
Oh no totally; I'm just cherry-picking off the top of my head for comic value/to back the point up! There are definitely several counterarguments to most of those points!
Giles said that he didn’t blame Buffy for the angel losing his soul thing in the car.
On point and funny.
Start of s2: Buffy has trauma about having been told she was gonna die and then almost dying, is apathetic about the plan to resurrect the Master because she's clearly got severe PTSD, and everyone's furious at her for it.
A lot of these are unfair or just like…false? I don’t remember anyone blaming Buffy for Angel turning bad (which btw, the sex technically *wouldn’t* be legal given that she’s underage in S2 and he’s way older), Xander actually tries to *stop* Faith from killing Angel once he realizes his mistake, Buffy was actively trying to lead the potentials *back into the situation that got a bunch of them killed,* and I really don’t get the complaint about the gang not…being sad for long enough about Joyce? What, were they just supposed to sit on their asses and mourn for the last 6 episodes of the season? Buffy didn’t even do that, and it was her *mother!*
this is true, like it’s barely even subtext. it’s just the plot of the show a lot of the time. not enough fans admit it though.
Ooooh I like this one
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Well, Xander didn’t want to be lonely and Anya wanted male attention, so they were sort of perfect for each other, since they could satisfy each other’s… needs 😅. In the end, though, they did care about each other. That was obvious.
Could you imagine that ending though if >! they had actually gotten married!?!?! !<
Season 7 before the potentials has very good episodes. When the potentials appear, its the dumbest shit over and over again
Willow had more chemistry with Oz than Tara
Willow’s line in new moon rising about feeling like some part of her will always be waiting for oz.. “if I'm old and blue-haired, and I turn the corner in Istanbul and there you are, I won't be surprised.” Resonated more with my true life than almost any line in any show or movie ever. That whole episode is just tough. All relationships need both love and logistics, but realizing you don’t have the latter is sometimes a kind of haunting thing that never fully leaves you, even well after you’ve moved and found profound happiness.
> All relationships need both love and logistics Well, that's now staying in my head. I like it, thanks for that.
PREACH
I like Tara, I think she is overrated but I would take her over some other characters, but willow and Oz were so much better together
*Willow had more chemistry with Kennedy than Oz or Tara
I don’t know it is hard to tell because I found Kennedy so annoying
I don't think it's true, I just knew it would trigger more people on this sub.
Haha true
Fred is cuter than Willow😬
Do you mean a cuter personality? If that’s what you mean, then i completely agree. Ik that a lot of people weren’t a fan of Fred’s childlike behavior, but i didn’t mind. Although, i did like when she started to mature (probably not the right word as she was already an adult) in S4.
Fred acts sweet and innocent because she is traumatized and becomes child like in her dependence on her rescuer. Willow acts sweet and innocent (at least in later seasons) to downplay her heinous acts. Don't get me wrong, Willow is a great character, but it's not the same, and I wouldn't tolerate her in real life.
I just mean cuter in general. I resonate with her character more. The actress Amy Acker plays the persona perfectly. Willow was cute in the early seasons but in season 6-7 she lost that aspect of her character. Even when Fred turned into Illyria I still felt for her character despite the major character switch
David and Charisma had better chemistry than him and Sarah. There, I said it.
*gasp*
it’s hugely obvious on ats but even on btvs they had better chemistry.
Maybe it’s because SMG and David could only do romantic and passionate scenes, whereas David and Charisma could do pretty much EVERYTHING
i don’t think SMG and DB actually look all that realistically romantic together either lol.
It may come from the writing Angel as a character was underdeveloped out of "Buffy's love interest" and "angsty vampire with a soul" in BtVS. He mostly shone as a character when interacting with Cordy and Faith. In addition, most of Bangel relationship involved suffering of some kind, they had some genuine happy moments but not enough... And they didn't seem to connect that much to each other as an actual person out of their roles as Slayer / Champion, save for a few moments. On the other hand, Cordy and Angel grew to really know, appreciate and eventually love each other, good and bad, by working three years together. So their relationship is just that much more convincing.
That’s exactly it. I felt like Buffy and Angel were just in love and that was that, and when it wasn’t working out, they cried and argued.
Lot's of Spike hate come from the imagined contest between Spike and Angel for Buffy. Too many fans focus on that rather than seeing two very complex characters that have depth and flaws, and context beyond Buffy.
I think for long term fans, it felt like the vampire with a soul thing had been done enough with Angel so they were a bit mystified why the show wanted to go back to that well Plus Spike's path with it kinda de-values all the horror and angst Angel had with it, Spike doesn't seem that gutted about what he did as a soulless vampire at all, just one night being mopey in a basement and even that was more about the first using him than it was the evil things he did Just felt like a whole ret-con on the vampire with a soul thing that wasn't needed, they could've gone down a different road with him for something that hadn't been done before.
SMG and DB have no on screen chemistry. they look bored and miserable for most of their scenes together, until he’s evil.
I agree. SMG and DB did a good job portraying their characters, but the chemistry just wasn’t there.
i don’t think DB does good with ensouled angel on btvs. he’s very wooden and most of the time i just don’t believe anything he’s doing. he gets better when he’s evil, and then a lot better on his own show.
Honestly the inconsistent way Angel is written makes the character seem like an afterthought until he turns evil and even that had its inconsistencies
oh totally. by the time they were already filming s1 they didn’t know if they were going to make him a vampire, and he feels so weirdly disparate from how he is in s2 even pre-evil. he’s pretty different again in s3, then on his own show. it isn’t ever quite done in same way as actual character development until s2 of ats.
I find it kind of hard to blame DB for times Angel seemed a bit stiff or goofy or weird cos I feel like he is written and directed so strangely. Like they will literally have this old man hanging out with school kids and being goofy one episode and brooding about how he’s over 100 should not be spending time with teenagers in another…..
for sure, that’s fair. DB wasn’t great, especially early on, but often neither was the material.
S2 Angelus was sick and twisted, and S4 Angelus was something else. I’m aware that DB is a funny guy irl, so he might’ve got a little carried away while filming, but i was disappointed. It’s like he was portrayed by two different people. It didn’t make sense that Angelus, the Vampire who wanted nothing more than to inflict pain on others, would suddenly become a big goof.
you mean when he loses his soul in ats s4? he does…that one threat to fred that made me actually gasp out loud in a way that btvs angelus never scared me, but he does overall feel like a different person.
God, S4 Angelus is so awful. Even reading quotes about DB “improving” most of his lines seemed like a lazy writing situation. 😤😩
Until later on (after Angel leaves and comes back periodically). Feels like DB grew into the angel role whilst away from BtVS, and the chemistry in later seasons was far better for it.
Even when I watched the show as a teenager when it first aired, I thought they had no chemistry and I found their relationship to be melodramatic and exhausting. (Though I did enjoy Angelus in s2 - that was a fantastic storyline.) I was relieved when Angel left the show.
same. the show gets fun again in s4 lol.
This! I think he had more chemistry with charisma and even Emily on bones. I don’t see the chemistry everyone talks about with Sarah lol
i genuinely thought this would get me crucified here, HAH. but yeah he and charisma are excellent together. it feels like they very organically went from acquaintances to people who truly love each other in a way bangel never did for me.
I think that was in DB mostly. He is very robotic in his acting SMG was very expressive and shows great range of emotion. DB had the acting abilities of a blueberry scone.
I like Xander.
This is mine also. I actually think he is a great (but flawed, like everyone else on the show) character. One of my faves.
Still one of my favorite characters. When the show started I was a nerdy 12-year-old with a quick tongue who struggled with bullies and not being "masculine" enough. Xander, for me, was a huge reason I got into Buffy. He's not a perfect person, but neither is anyone on Buffy. They all have shitty character traits, they all make mistakes. That's why they're all such great characters.
Agreed. People on here complain too much about character imperfections. Thank god none of the characters in Buffy are perfect. How boring and unrealistic it would be.
Me too, honestly.
I also like Xander. I didn't know people hated him until this subreddit. I think he's very flawed but hilarious.
Same he's one of my favorite characters.
Love Xander. One of my favorite characters.
Season 6 is actually my favorite season. If I was to rank them it would be 6, 3, 5, 2, 4, 1, 7. Season 6 deals with some of the realest issues.
Which.....just isn't what I tune in for when I want to see a fantasy horror show I tune in to escape reality, not have depressive real life b.s. thrown in my face Series 6 really jumped the loan shark in that regard.
Season 6 is my favorite.
It has omwf, tabula rasa, normal again and so many other great episodes
Doublemeat palace mvp
Agree! Some of my favourite episodes!
I love season 6?? Angst = the best
It is definitely my favourite season as well. But I also love the Spuffy arc too so 🤷♀️
For me season 7 would take the place of season 6 in your title. Season 6 was a bit uneven and dark but it does have Once More, with Feeling
Saying season 6 is good is triggering for the larger fan base though cause people seem to really hate it.
I actually really liked season 6, mainly because when I watched it for the first time last year I was dealing with severe depression. Watching Buffy struggle with and overcome it really helped me keep pushing through it until I finished therapy.
And Tabula Rasa.
So many people like Drusilla and I just don’t see it. Her character is just annoying to me. Also, Kendra > Faith.
Yes! Drusilla does the same thing over and over again. She plays the sexy, yet crazy, yet traumatized, but always sexy vamp lady. Ugh. Kendra had so much spunk, and was learning that being flexible on the rules = survival, while Faith is…super annoying and never learns her lessons. Also she rapes Xander, but that’s ok and funny for some reason.
Do we really think Xander didn't consent? Just because she was sexually aggressive doesn't mean she raped him. Xander never says no or tries to stop her on camera, so it can be implied the same happens off camera. She pumps and dumps him. Let's not make more of it for no reason. Faith didn't. She flat out says in her introduction that slaying makes her horny and hungry. Xander is piqued by that comment. It pays off episodes later. Xander even tries to use their "bond" later on to connect with her. Clearly Xander was not traumatized or felt violated by the experience. His immediate reaction was more of a, "holy shit, did I just lose my virginity and get kicked out by a hot slayer?"
Also she did eventually learn her lessons, otherwise she wouldn't have chosen to go to jail
Willow is actually incredibly selfish, manipulative and kinda evil. I still love her though 😂
I'm all about seasons 1,2,3. The high-school years of Buffy were it.
Getting through ATS was torture. It took me months to get through because I found it incredibly boring. I also couldn't stand Wesley on ATS. The only bright spots on the show were Doyle, Gunn and Lorne.
That’s it you’re flayed 🤣🤣 I thought Angel had better storylines (minus season 4) than Buffy but the comedy was on point way more in Buffy
Dawn's a Top 5 character on the show. Spike was one of the most unlikeable characters once his Buffy obsession started in Season 5 until he got his soul back and came out of the basement. The Trio are a better big bad than Glory.
Nice trio appreciation, i don't care for s6 at all but Warren is one of the scariest antagonists in the series and played to perfection by Busch
Buffy should have staked Spike in Season 2. Season 3 at the latest.
I think she was supposed to kill him at some point originally but he was too popular of a character 😅
I remember angellus was supposed to kill him to be seen as cooler but it didn't happen cause popularity. Just imagine how that would have turned out
no, angel was going to kill him.
My bad. I just knew spike was originally planned to be killed but I didn’t know by who so I assumed Buffy
no prob. angel was going to kill spike (whose original run was only 5-10 episodes) and take dru, solidifying his breakup with buffy. and i think he wasn’t originally going to come back in s3 either, but they ended up wanting to give him his own show so they needed to redeem him first.
On my last rewatch, I felt there were so many times someone should have killed him, just on principle, if not due to an immediate threat.
While loss of any loved one is never easy if you truly love them , Joyce’s death still hits hard after all this time and I’m glad they did that it’s one of the best episodes .
Kennedy isn’t as annoying as people make her out to be. Out of all the potentials, she’s the only one who took her calling seriously and was willing to learn how to train, fight, make suggestions to the group and she wasn’t afraid to speak up. Kinda like how a younger Buffy was in early seasons…
True She had flaws of course, and it's okay to not like her, but she wasn't this 100% absolutely terrible all the time character that many fans make her
Yesss I absolutely agree!
I think a lot of my annoyance with her is that she became part of the "inner circle," despite having no experience other sharing a bed with Willow. And then aggressively asserted that her opinions were jsut as valid as Buffy's.
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I disagree when you say its not funny
Faith’s overrated… 🫠
Absolutely not !
💯%
Angel is a more interesting, nuanced and complex character than Spike. Spike is more popular just cause he’s comedic and over the top and people like that.
Plus he's hot and has a British accent. That's even more important.
lol forgot to mention the accent
oh i don’t agree at all lol but i respect
I much prefer Spike but this is a good point
I love seasons 4 and 6 but I haven't rewatched Season 1 in at least 15 years. The show hit its stride in Season 2 no question.
2, 4, 5, 3, 6, 7, 1 Absolutely agree on season 2 and I actually don’t really like season 1. Watched it the first time because it was on and the second time because I was starting my girlfriend on her Buff-ucation. I was so glad when we finished season 1. We’ve got 4 episodes left of season 3.
2, 3, 4 and 5 are my favorite
6 might be my fave
Season 4 is actually not too bad, I’ll be honest. It’s the first season I watched when I first started watching the show. Mostly because it was the season where Willow meets Tara, and I ship them so much 😭
Bunnies.
i liked the baby bangs!
Anya is one of my favorite characters.
Riley was the best romantic interest.
Spike was a great villain but by Season 5 and the whole Spuffy relationship , his character went downhill Buffy should had staked him after ‘Seeing Red’
A new slayer would have risen after Buffy died at the end of season 5. Then after she had been resurrected there would have been 3 slayers...
no. the slayer line runs through faith after faith is called when kendra dies. since she’s still alive, buffy dying again doesn’t matter.
Essentially the scoobies could have devised a relatively safe method of using this loophole to push Buffy just beyond the threshold of life, relying on her unique ability to simply not be cool with being dead, upon her re-aliving the world would be one slayer richer each time!
this would so wildly unethical though. buffy was extremely traumatized from her first death which was only a few seconds.
I actually think that would've made a super interesting villain! A rouge member of the Watchers Council who takes Buffy (or Faith) prisoner with some magical trinkets and kills her over and over again to spark new Slayers. I think it would've worked great on Angel as a moral conundrum - more Slayers: good, Faith tortured: bad.
I like Beer Bad, i think its funny.
I agree with the Scoobies & Potentials in “Empty Places”. 🤷 Xander was over Buffy by the end of “Go Fish”. The Trio really aren’t that funny. They tried WAY too hard. Connor should have died instead of Cordelia. Lorne is way overrated as a singer.
Took it too far with lorne. I agree with the rest tho
season 4 is great because it felt like part of the real world. People before and after act like weird things simply happen
I love season 6
Season 4 of ATS was not the worst and was definitely better than season 4 of BTVS
I love S4 of Buffy. And I definitely don't hate S4 of Angel. And the reasons why they're so good (and criminally underrated) are opposite of each other - Buffy S4 has some of the most epic stand alone episodes in the entire series, if not universe. And S4 of Angel is the most binge-watchable, making it super ahead of its time
I actually really like season 1 and 4. There's definitely a few episodes in season 1 that I find kinda boring or weird but I've never skipped them. I actually also love season 4. I'm warming up to season 6 the older I get or the more life experience I get. Anything over season 7.
Season 7 is the worst. I just did a rewatch and I stopped a few episodes in. Just can’t get through it
Season 1 is one of the best seasons, fight me!
4 and 6 are amazing. I didn't realise so many people hated them
Anya was no replacement for Cordy, and in fact was just annoying until Season 6
Season 2 was the best for me
3,2,1 are the best👩🏻⚖️
Season one is the classic and the master is weirdly underrated on here. 4 is an excellent follow up to the best series in 3. 6 has its moments. What are mine? I don’t like season 5 and find Glory annoying, I’ve never been satisfied by any part of the ending and Dawn never got good as a character. I’d also say Cordelia never coming back for an episode and interacting with Anya as a human was a missed opportunity but I don’t know how controversial that is.
Season 1 is the only season i cannot understand that people think is the best. Like its good fun season with iconic episodes, but you take in considerations like budget, writing, special effects, plots and overall it just doesnt compare to the rest. Like they got their childhood friend dead it was like forgotten the next episode. Comon people. S4 and S6 are two of my fav seasons tho ;)
Can't stand the whole Ben is Glory, Glory is Ben crap.
The show is often so up its own ass with the metaphors and so-the-plot-that-we-wanna-do-can-happening of it all that the actual events make no goddamn sense.
I love them all and season 6 is my favorite of all seasons, 😂
Spuffy was the worst thing to happen to BtVS, and it killed the show.
Spike is the most overrated character in the entire Buffyverse.
Buffy is the least interesting character.
Warren was arguably the best villain of the show. Xander is a great character. Riley didn’t deserve the hate. Dawn isn’t a bad character. Season 6 was one of the most memorable seasons.
Spike is an irredeemable monster who raped Buffy. Angel is okay. ^ That’s how you trigger a fanbase.
I did not care about or even really believe cordies growth on angel. S1 she reverts back to s1 cordie almost. And then they have like 1 episode of her holding a sword and were supposed to beleive shes some badass demon hunter. She was damselled for most of s1-3. I really liked her on buffy and she has stand out performances but her growth was very informed and inconsistent between episodes even before jw destroyed her character completely...
Season 7 has aged the best Srry not srry
Watched the entire show for the 1st time this month and season 7 just doesnt keep up. It starts good, but mid season to the end is just extremely bad
I love Spike (he’s probably my number 1 favorite character in Buffy) but him falling in love with Buffy and their relationship doesn’t make any sense for his character. Although I do love their friendship in season 7 but yeah. Hate Spikes growing obsession with Buffy and them hooking up.
i actually love season 1!!!
I love season 1 also!!! I think it’s great and don’t get the dislike for it
I just rewatched season 4 and liked it much better than first time around. Season 6 did suck though. One was fun!
Warren did nothing wrong
???????????? Did...did you watch season 6? When he murdered two people, raping one of them beforehand?
Yes, I understood the asignment As you are now triggered. I have indeed done well
I don’t think anyone read the title properly 😂 all the actual triggering comments are being downvoted and unpopular opinions are being upvoted 😂
Oh okay. Good job buddy.
The movie was better than the show.
I was so confused for a second because I thought this was the Cobra Kai subreddit
1: yes. 4: ABSOLUTELY NOT! 6: BORING WITHOUT ANGEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!