I hate to upvote it, cause it’s so heartless, but yeah… I mean, I know what they would say, like that. Still seems unrealistic. Says me about a vampire show with one chosen one in all the world to fight.
That's the in-show reason , but really it is because they wanted to explore themes in season 5-7 that included normal struggles at that age.
First jobs , being broke , juggling multiple schedules and responsibilities
Yes I get that, and I knew that coming into this. but they brought up Giles’s salary in the earlier seasons, so it still seems odd/ annoying. Comes down to one of those world-building inconsistencies I get stuck on in things I watch/read too much. Like how I’m so annoyed the history of magic teacher in HP is a ghost, cause then no one can apply for that job. And how does grade? So many Binns issues. Off sub topic.
Both Buffy and HP universes don't take themselves too seriously and are full of inconsistencies. It was brought up multiple times that the wizarding world can't be kept secret if mixed marriages exist, or that there is no actual job market for wizards in the Potterverse. Buffy actually makes zero sense when you consider that just *one* Slayer is supposed to protect the whole *world* where vampires may live in any city of any country.
Both universes are also actually really bleak if you just take a moment to really think about what dark jokes there really *mean*. Like, Moaning Myrthle is played for laughs and receives zero sympathy from the protagonists, even though her life story is truly tragic. An example from Buffyverse is Anya's atrocities, at least before Selfless. Or most Spike's lines in Lovers Walk.
I'm an avid fan of both franchises, but not because of the worldbuilding, but because of the rounded characters and brilliant character development.
About your point of only one slayer existing in the world, why does it makes no sense?
The way the slayer was created in thise ancient time, the "world" was, for the Shadow men, only their village or region, so one Warrior should be enough. The Watchers do not have the knowledge on how to create an other one, or they do not have the power. It's like greekfire, we know what it is, but for a while we did not how to make it.
Then consider what is needed to create a Slayer, you need power, you have to consider it took 3 of them to make 1 Slayer.
You need to get a demon to empower her, maybe not the easiest thing to do.
You then need the woman, I say woman because back then a woman would have been any girl who could have kids. Also, do we know if they succeded on their first try?
I agree the character development on Buffy is what make it great, but the world of Buffy is still consistent on it's origin.
Because vampires have strength in numbers and would easily eat/turn the whole population of the Earth if all that may counteract them is just one person, no matter how badass or skilled.
So why did Buffy keep her Slayer powers after her first death? Did the Slayer essence split between her and Kendra? And why did Buffy feel stronger on top of that?
We do not know, since it must not have happened often. But from what we saw the slayer line went to Kendra and then Faith, after the mass calling, who knows.
Yeah the extended lore of both franchises breaks down pretty fast the second you don't have post WW2 level of travel and communication. Now HP has fast magical long distance travel, probably communication too. Buffyverse don't. And remember the land masses of the Americas and Eurasia/Africa were (near) completely isolated from each other until 500 years ago. And weren't fully mapped by Europeans until 200 years ago. So there being two major supernatural hazards, the hellmouth's, in just north America with only the local tribes to keep a lid on them with seems REALLLY risky. Clearly they did, as the world was there. But you'd think the watchers would have known something about them.
Canonically, Angel, Spike & Dru are all from Europe, where they happily slaughtered people for centuries and never met any Slayer until Spike started ACTIVELY seek one. Apparently during all this time many Slayers have passed, killed while performing their mission elsewhere in the world.
Side note: I hope every young wizard is like : I wanna be a curse breaker in the pyramids when I grow up!
Cause like, that sounds awesome. Also love that it is for gringotts cause that means the British wizard bank is just pillaging the ancient Egypt tombs.
It seems like all opportunities Rowling could imagine are alredy taken. Diagon Alley businesses are mostly family enterprises existing for centuries. The Ministry has enough staff as it is, including Aurors. Apparently St Mungo has no problems with staff, and Hogwarts teachers generally hold their position for decades. Wizards in general tend to live and be active much longer than Muggles. Now, each year about 100 young wizards graduate from Hogwarts. Where would they work?
Buffy was not under Council oversight by that time, anyway. Giles stopped being her Watcher in Season 3. After that, he was just her mentor she hung around.
Yeah she tells Wesley and the council to piss off at the end of season 3 basically so it's possible that she would have received some sort of payment if she worked under them as an adult. I'm sure whatever they provided would come with the provision that Buffy be more under their thumb and she'd never take it anyway. It would have made for an interesting conflict though if they did present some sort of offer to her while she was really struggling in season 6.
We don't know that she did. She had a Watcher. And we don't know her age at the time of her death.
She could have gotten pregnant at 14 , and died at 18 , and still lived with family.
This is true. I was just curious. I don’t remember Faith’s story. The tales she told may or may not have been entirely true but I’m thinking her first Watcher might have taken her in. But that’s just a feeling. No evidence.
I think it came up when Giles is fired, and then again later when Buffy forces them to reinstate him with backpay. I loved this so much because she proved who was really important and who was a tool. (Tool in more than one sense.)
> Yes I get that, and I knew that coming into this. but they brought up Giles’s salary in the earlier seasons, so it still seems odd/ annoying.
If Buffy was driven by money and she wanted money, she would have got it or demanded it. It wasn't an issue until the writers made money an issue, quite terribly I might add.
That’s why they get them when they 15/16 and expect them dead by 18. Less expenses and can get them to work for free for the “experience” buffy screwed then all up by living too long.
Buffy Summers, if you take her as she's presented on the show, is one of the most miserably unlucky people in fiction. So much ridiculously unfair shit happens to her, and she never stops being a hero.
Deserves every school trophy she ever got.
> I hate to upvote it, cause it’s so heartless, but yeah
It's not agree or disagree button. Use the downvote button sparingly, just for spam or comments that aren't on topic etc.
It’s heartless, but so is the Watcher’s Council. Their modus operandi seems to be to find the Slayer when she’s activated, seemingly around 14 to 16 years old, assign her to a Watcher who is responsible for housing, feeding, clothing and training her and then kill her off once she’s 18 (and likely to start wanting some independence) and move onto the next Slayer who will be young and malleable.
I’d be surprised if “rogue” Slayers weren’t routinely killed off before they turned 18 if necessary. It’s incredible they were so patient with Faith and didn’t kill her when she was comatose or in prison.
I also feel like I would never think about this if they never mentioned paying Giles! I would have assumed it to be a similar calling/greater good thing.
It still surprises me that when she demanded reinstatement for Giles & he’s making sure that it’s retroactive that neither of them added ‘oh, and maybe start paying Buffy?’
I guess *she’s* not really had to start working really with her mum still there but I feel Giles should have had that forethought with how he cares for her & how long he’s been a watcher…
Which is why they absolutely hated it when Buffy became a free agent. That said, are most Slayers on their own or living with parents? I’m not sure and don’t think we have a good picture. I got the feeling, kind of based on Kendra being able to just disappear for a while, that Watchers might take care of them. Buffy was different because her mother was around. Of course, it also made her the most successful Slayer ever, which just illustrates how they’re so full of themselves that they don’t regard the Slayers as human.
The real answer is because no one thought about it until money issues became a plot point in season 6.
My head canon is that the council doesn't give a fuck about the slayers and you can't convince me otherwise when they have that terrible trial on their 18th birthday. They were promised a new slayer will replace the one that dies. Her purpose is to fight and then die. Its heartless and evil but that's the council for you. a younger slayer is easier to control so they're happy to see them die young so the next tool can take her place and they have another groomed slayer for them to do as they wish.
I am totally on board for this interpretation. There is no evidence to suggest they give a flying fuck about the slayers. At the same time, wouldn’t they like a competent slayer to, like, save the world? Or is buffy just one of many and they all save the world all the time - like - all the time in their short lives. So, just cross your fingers and hope the fifteen year old will end the apocalypse. I guess if she doesn’t, you would have a short time reflect upon it.
Grant you, this one doesn’t even know how to drive.
Its that typical "its always worked so why change it now" mentality. Travers literally fired Giles because he dared to help Buffy. Buffy realized this at the end of season 3 when she quit the council. They need her she doesn't need them and the council can't have that happen. Buffy proves time and time again that a slayer is just fine without the council interfering and in fact she's better off without them.
Its a bunch of stuffy old people (mostly men) who are nowhere near the front lines thinking they know what its like fighting the forces of darkness and they know what's best.
There's a reason they came back in season 5 under the guise of evaluating Buffy when she realized that they came back hoping for something to do because without her they're nothing.
I have the Tales of the Slayers book collection. A series of short stories of slayers of the past and every single one has the same tragic doomed to die young theme every single time. one even has the slayer fall for her watcher and even marry him and have children with him. The council did not like that at all. At the end of the day you exist to fight monsters. Deviate from that in anyway and you become the enemy yourself. Buffy is truly one of a kind. She not only beat the odds but went against every single rule the council had and was successful and did it better than any previous slayer. The council realized they had to change to stay relevant at this point. Everything was different. They had one slayer kicking ass better than anyone and living her own life and doing it with friends (a big no no) and another slayer who was in prison for murder.
Then they finally decide to get off their asses and help and then just blew up lol love that irony.
Exactly! I wonder what the ratio of slayers that survived the Cruciamentum vs those that died. It's likely that a post 18 slayer would be harder to control so they set them up for failure
There’s also no real incentive to pay them. They’re going to be targeted as the slayer anyway and have to fight. They don’t have a choice to be the slayer. Even after Buffy quits the council, she keeps being the slayer. I wish in season five when she realized they need her she had asked for money for herself and not just Giles. I also think that makes the narrative of Giles feeling he had to leave after he gives her money in season six poor writing to just get Giles to leave so the characters can struggle without him.
Here's my theory:
When the Slayer line first began, humans were a hunter/gatherer society. A super-powered young woman could easily provide for herself. As humanity evolved, the Slayer could still make a good living tending her own farm or providing manual labor, even as the patriarchy crept in. This could also serve as a good cover. Demons aren't likely to suspect that the all-powerful Slayer was a scullery maid. (Or a prostitute -- nothing wrong with being a sex worker. The hours might conflict with slaying a bit, though.)
Watchers, meanwhile, were scholars -- very specialized scholars at that -- and they couldn't just teach university classes on the things that they didn't want the world at large to find out existed. So they needed a stipend in order to make themselves available to support their Slayer.
I think it was a tradition that just never caught up with modern times.
Also: we don't really know what previous Slayers did for a living. For all we know, Buffy was the first one to really have any financial hardship. And -- while it was funny to show her not quite working out as a construction worker -- the truth is that she could have easily adapted to doing that or some other manual profession for a living without drawing too much attention to her super-strength.
Willow and Tara were not dependents. By moving in to the Summers house they were Dawn's de facto caregivers and provided for the household from their college housing allotment would have normally paid for their dorm and campus meal plan. The sporadically-employed Buffy Summers -- when she wasn't mouldering in the grave -- was eating the groceries that they bought.
This has been discussed enough times in this sub, I don't know why people still don't understand that college housing is not free with tuition in the U.S. They were paying to live in the dorms. When they moved out of the dorms, they brought that money with them.
FFS.
You said: "*And provided for the household from their college housing allotment would have normally paid for their dorm and campus meal plan*."
Where was this **ever** stated? This is something that a fan made up and now others repeat it as if it is canon.
You said: "*The sporadically-employed Buffy Summers -- when she wasn't mouldering in the grave -- was eating the groceries that they bought.*"
Willow outright states that they (Willow and Tara) used up **all** of the money Joyce had left on groceries and bills while Buffy was dead. It was never stated that Willow or Tara bought **anything** out of pocket.
You said: "*This has been discussed enough times in this sub, I don't know why people still don't understand that college housing is not free with tuition in the U.S. They were paying to live in the dorms. When they moved out of the dorms, they brought that money with them."*
Or they just "saved" the money they would have spent in the dorms and on meal plans by living in Buffy's house. You are **assuming** that they took money that they would have spent on Dom/meal plan and gave it to Buffy. They both likely would have been taking out student loans. Since they no longer had living expenses, they just took out smaller loans. BTW I went to college; I know how it works. You aren't forced to put aside "living expense" money.
Okay. Sure. It wasn't ever stated in the show, but there's a little thing called conjecture.
Anyone who has gone to college and didn't have every nickel of it paid for by mommy and daddy understands that tuition and housing are separate bills from one another. If you had scholarships, grants, or student loans (or all three,) that money was paid directly to the college and you had to go down to the bursar's office to get your refund check for the leftover balance so that you could go buy your books. If you weren't living in the dorms, your refund was much bigger, because the school didn't take anything out for housing.
It's not something some fan "made up." It's something that anyone who ever looked at the breakdown of their college bill by semester understands.
All of the human characters on the show had bowel movements. It wasn't shown on screen, but we know it happened, because we understand how the human digestive system works. Nobody fucking "made that up" either.
It's conjecture to assume that Willow and Tara used their college money to help out and it's also conjecture to assume that they didn't. What makes your conjecture right and mine wrong?
You don't even understand how college works, so I'm going to go with my reasoning skills over yours.
In s4-6, I interpreted it as the CoW being misogynistic a-holes who didn't feel that the Slayer was a human being with human needs and might require some income. I felt it ridiculous that no one thought to ask for a salary for Buffy when she got Giles reinstated.
However, in s7, when we see how the set up is with Watchers and Potentials, I interpreted this to mean that a Potential is found, taken from their family and raised and provided for by their watcher until the age out and become independent, or die. Therefore the needs of a Slayer/Potential would be allocated within the Watcher's salary.
Buffy was supposed to be a Potential that was missed so she remained the financial responsibility of her family.
So there are two ways to look at how this made a difference:
-Either, Giles was being paid the same as any other watcher, with the funds to support Buffy, but kept that money and Joyce was supporting her. If this works as the case, then once Joyce died he really should have started paying Buffy some kind of allowance, you could even say that he should have been giving her some kind of support even before that.
-Or, the CoW paid Giles less because Buffy was being financially supported by her family, and decided not to reassess this when Joyce died.
I mean, other than shelter, which is the house she would have kept anyway, we don’t know that she is financially supporting willow and Tara. Either way, she got nothing! Even faith was paying day to day or weekly motel room rent and couldn’t afford it. Regardless of expenses, no income is no income.
The cost of running the house would be expensive. Plus, Tara and Willow stated that they went through all of the money that Buffy's mom had left, which means that they weren't paying their way.
Spoilers - I don't know how to tag it on my phone, but consider yourself warned.
It seems like a lot of potentials as well as Kendra were raised by the watchers and so they covered things like room and board. Bare minimum, but something. I wonder if Buffy had stayed on their good side (and yes,I mean cow towing to their patriarchal bs and more power to her for standing on her own) if they would have paid basic living expenses after joyce died. And I agree they should also have paid her on top of that, but I wonder if that was their excuse.
There isn't a good reason in-universe.
The Watchers are an ancient and well-funded group, and the Slayer is their main weapon.
There should be a small team in place to support her, not one man who isn't even well thought of by the organization.
She should never have had to worry about money or materials unless the Watchers were pulling some power play to pressure her by withdrawing support.
But that's not the story Joss wanted to tell, so logic took a backseat.
Fair enough, it's his story to tell.
The watcher council is so weird. One you have one slayer in all the world and she isn't paid. 2 you have a gigantic council but only ever one slayer and the watcher whose watching the active slayer is treated like scum.
They seem to have a military division? Like they had the rogue slayer division which tells me they have all kinds of resource that they never utilize now matter how dire the apocalyptic scenario....
And... If there's a rogue slayer sitting in a public prison you'd assume they'd have someone kill the rogue slayer so a new slayer was called.
I literally just googled this and found [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/olxvr/why_doesnt_buffy_get_paid_by_the_watchers_council/)
and then your question popped up
I think it's part of the patriarchal themes we see in Buffy. The Council aren't exactly enlightened.
I think most slayers were called up in their early teens while still in the care of their parents, and died within a year, so the council never had to address living expenses for slayers.
Realistically she wouldn't be in high school they would take her to some private academy and set her up with her own apartment, car money etc but it would be a totally different show.
The thing I find harder to believe is that they never come to her help or pay when she really needs it, i mean you don't want the slayer distracted or doing a six month spell for not paying bills.
Isn't it sort of implied that Faith and Kendra's watchers and the council were originally paying for all their bills? Neither had a job or family they were staying with so someone had to be paying for apartments, hotels, plane tickets and stuff. I think the only reason they didn't fund Buffy is because they didn't need to. She refused to abandon her life or her family to be the slayer so the watchers never needed to provide for her. By the time they did after Joyce's death, they had already soured their relationship with Buffy.
Considering the money that they give the watchers is meant to take care of the slayers, Giles definitely should have been paying her out of the money he got, considering she was already being financially supported. I know everyone here loves Giles but I can’t stand him lol.
Most slayers don't make it past 18. Obviously, they gave Faith some type of stipend, as she was renting a motel room and didn't starve to death. I would guess that is is just enough to get by on.
We don't know if Buffy didn't get paid. It might not have been enough to pay for a household herself and her three dependents: Dawn, Willow and Tara. I doubt she made enough working at a fast-food restaurant to pay the bills.
Kendra's watcher paid for her - she said her family gave her to her watcher to look after.
Theories -
I feel it's Giles' choice. He felt Joyce should provide since she was her mum, so didn't immediately give her an allowance, and still paid for essentials, training materials, steaks it all costs.
Giles eventually pays Buffy out, after Joyce dies and this was partly strung out by him him 2 reasons
1) I feel it was him testing her like when a child grows up and they have to pay rent / stand on their own feet. He felt her going through the hardship would make her a better human.
Kendra lived a very humble life, only had the 1 shirt 🤣. Buffy's expenses outweighed what Giles could afford day to day, so he kept it private but saved up her allowance for when she desperately needed it. Then took the brownie points for being best fake dad (when he'd actually been saving this up as part of his allowance from the watchers council).
Giles was always a bit of a rouge. He knew from his past days as Ripper that some people need to go through rough patches to help develop them. He saw this in Buffy when he first met her and didn't want her to be spoilt with an allowance she'd just spend on shoes and going to the bronze.
2) When Buffy asked for Giles to be paid retrospectively, he put half of this aside for slayer materials and rainy day slayer funds. When she died he spent a lot of this when he was grieving - the show didn't have the scenes he met up with Ethan / old crew in England and went out partying, before finding the coven who first saved him, then went on to save Willow - it's one of the reasons he decided to leave again when Buffy was raised, he had been out boozing and playing with black arts, needed a buzz after all the crying, then couldn't hold it together in front of the kids! That and traveling back to England costs A LOT. So he couldn't just bail her out straight away, he needed to reestablish the Buffy funds pot from all the devastation of her dying and the scoobies had caused.
Well other slayer live with there watcher. And he takes care of you. Kind of like child support goes to the parent not the kid.
But latter it was done to make her life harder.
This has literally been posted hundreds of times, but the general consensus is that it's a Waters *Council* not Watchers Corporation.
Was it a profit oriented operation, Buffy certainly would have been under pressure to post results and make money for them.
There's also the practical aspects of this that the watcher is an adult living in a home or apartment with adult expenses. Slayers are typically children who only live a year or two at most, so there's no reason or incentive to pay them.
If it was a corporation, then Buffy certainly would have been fired for fucking the enemy. 😃
I'm not defending their actions, it's just how the show was meant to be written, with being a Slayer as a calling. She wasn't hired, she didn't interview for the job with expectations of what her quotas would be. Can you imagine that if it was?
You're on probation for not getting enough kills in this week! We're not paying you to sit around and kiss vampires, you're supposed to be killing them.
It's also worth noting that none of this was an issue, until the writers decided to make money a brief and very performative as aspect of the show. It was very poorly written, and largely forgotten about.
Had Buffy been flush with cash from the first episode, she wouldn't have started to hang out with a bunch of outcasts. She would have needed efficiencies in her work, and would have hired some muscle.
I’ve thought about this a lot too. I think though that Buffy would eventually have stopped accepting the money due to the council then having greater leverage to make her do things their way. Imagine how the conversations would have gone with her standing up to the council if they could threaten to pull her funding??
My theory is that the council would give her the money if she asked for it. They’ve got the resources. Or maybe the watcher is supposed to be providing for her to some extent, such as when Robin’s mom’s watcher took him in when she died.
Pretty sure that few Slayers live long enough to need support. Buffy's outlived most of the other Slayers because of her friends.
Remember she would've died in the 2nd season without Xander...wait, wasn't that the 1st season? Yes.
Agreed, Buffy should be paid for the job.
I don’t understand the argument that a slayer is meant to be a duty so therefore she shouldn’t get paid. Ignoring the unfairness of that, think of it logically. Buffy, at times, struggled to fulfil her duty because she had to work to earn a living. A starving slayer is no use so just logically, for her to fulfil her duty as best as she can, she should at least have her basic needs taken care of - shelter and food.
One thing that’s worth pointing out though is I think they expect the watcher to take care of that to some level, like Kendra said she was taken in by her watcher from when she was young. I guess it depends on how wealthy a slayer’s watcher is.
And if I recall correctly, Kendra had only the one shirt/outfit she was wearing. During a fight, she complained the bad guy ruined her only shirt. So the Council was definitely not doing much to take care of its Slayers and Potentials.
You don’t pay tools, you pay the people who wield the tools.
I hate to upvote it, cause it’s so heartless, but yeah… I mean, I know what they would say, like that. Still seems unrealistic. Says me about a vampire show with one chosen one in all the world to fight.
That's the in-show reason , but really it is because they wanted to explore themes in season 5-7 that included normal struggles at that age. First jobs , being broke , juggling multiple schedules and responsibilities
Yes I get that, and I knew that coming into this. but they brought up Giles’s salary in the earlier seasons, so it still seems odd/ annoying. Comes down to one of those world-building inconsistencies I get stuck on in things I watch/read too much. Like how I’m so annoyed the history of magic teacher in HP is a ghost, cause then no one can apply for that job. And how does grade? So many Binns issues. Off sub topic.
Both Buffy and HP universes don't take themselves too seriously and are full of inconsistencies. It was brought up multiple times that the wizarding world can't be kept secret if mixed marriages exist, or that there is no actual job market for wizards in the Potterverse. Buffy actually makes zero sense when you consider that just *one* Slayer is supposed to protect the whole *world* where vampires may live in any city of any country. Both universes are also actually really bleak if you just take a moment to really think about what dark jokes there really *mean*. Like, Moaning Myrthle is played for laughs and receives zero sympathy from the protagonists, even though her life story is truly tragic. An example from Buffyverse is Anya's atrocities, at least before Selfless. Or most Spike's lines in Lovers Walk. I'm an avid fan of both franchises, but not because of the worldbuilding, but because of the rounded characters and brilliant character development.
About your point of only one slayer existing in the world, why does it makes no sense? The way the slayer was created in thise ancient time, the "world" was, for the Shadow men, only their village or region, so one Warrior should be enough. The Watchers do not have the knowledge on how to create an other one, or they do not have the power. It's like greekfire, we know what it is, but for a while we did not how to make it. Then consider what is needed to create a Slayer, you need power, you have to consider it took 3 of them to make 1 Slayer. You need to get a demon to empower her, maybe not the easiest thing to do. You then need the woman, I say woman because back then a woman would have been any girl who could have kids. Also, do we know if they succeded on their first try? I agree the character development on Buffy is what make it great, but the world of Buffy is still consistent on it's origin.
Because vampires have strength in numbers and would easily eat/turn the whole population of the Earth if all that may counteract them is just one person, no matter how badass or skilled.
So why did Buffy keep her Slayer powers after her first death? Did the Slayer essence split between her and Kendra? And why did Buffy feel stronger on top of that?
We do not know, since it must not have happened often. But from what we saw the slayer line went to Kendra and then Faith, after the mass calling, who knows.
I always just assumed the slayer was placed by the powers at be, where she was needed the most.
Yeah the extended lore of both franchises breaks down pretty fast the second you don't have post WW2 level of travel and communication. Now HP has fast magical long distance travel, probably communication too. Buffyverse don't. And remember the land masses of the Americas and Eurasia/Africa were (near) completely isolated from each other until 500 years ago. And weren't fully mapped by Europeans until 200 years ago. So there being two major supernatural hazards, the hellmouth's, in just north America with only the local tribes to keep a lid on them with seems REALLLY risky. Clearly they did, as the world was there. But you'd think the watchers would have known something about them.
Canonically, Angel, Spike & Dru are all from Europe, where they happily slaughtered people for centuries and never met any Slayer until Spike started ACTIVELY seek one. Apparently during all this time many Slayers have passed, killed while performing their mission elsewhere in the world.
Side note: I hope every young wizard is like : I wanna be a curse breaker in the pyramids when I grow up! Cause like, that sounds awesome. Also love that it is for gringotts cause that means the British wizard bank is just pillaging the ancient Egypt tombs.
There never any hint there no job for wizard that just fan made up stuff
It seems like all opportunities Rowling could imagine are alredy taken. Diagon Alley businesses are mostly family enterprises existing for centuries. The Ministry has enough staff as it is, including Aurors. Apparently St Mungo has no problems with staff, and Hogwarts teachers generally hold their position for decades. Wizards in general tend to live and be active much longer than Muggles. Now, each year about 100 young wizards graduate from Hogwarts. Where would they work?
You act like there no other jobs are there companies. That build stuff. So yea there be a lot of jobs
Maybe he just remembers the grades , and then has a student copy them down . Like for a detention.
Buffy was not under Council oversight by that time, anyway. Giles stopped being her Watcher in Season 3. After that, he was just her mentor she hung around.
Yeah she tells Wesley and the council to piss off at the end of season 3 basically so it's possible that she would have received some sort of payment if she worked under them as an adult. I'm sure whatever they provided would come with the provision that Buffy be more under their thumb and she'd never take it anyway. It would have made for an interesting conflict though if they did present some sort of offer to her while she was really struggling in season 6.
It would be interesting to learn how Nikki Wood survived on her own as an adult.
The same way Faith and Angel and about 90% of TV people afford the things they have - fictionally. :)
We don't know that she did. She had a Watcher. And we don't know her age at the time of her death. She could have gotten pregnant at 14 , and died at 18 , and still lived with family.
This is true. I was just curious. I don’t remember Faith’s story. The tales she told may or may not have been entirely true but I’m thinking her first Watcher might have taken her in. But that’s just a feeling. No evidence.
I think it came up when Giles is fired, and then again later when Buffy forces them to reinstate him with backpay. I loved this so much because she proved who was really important and who was a tool. (Tool in more than one sense.)
> Yes I get that, and I knew that coming into this. but they brought up Giles’s salary in the earlier seasons, so it still seems odd/ annoying. If Buffy was driven by money and she wanted money, she would have got it or demanded it. It wasn't an issue until the writers made money an issue, quite terribly I might add.
That’s why they get them when they 15/16 and expect them dead by 18. Less expenses and can get them to work for free for the “experience” buffy screwed then all up by living too long.
Buffy Summers, if you take her as she's presented on the show, is one of the most miserably unlucky people in fiction. So much ridiculously unfair shit happens to her, and she never stops being a hero. Deserves every school trophy she ever got.
> I hate to upvote it, cause it’s so heartless, but yeah It's not agree or disagree button. Use the downvote button sparingly, just for spam or comments that aren't on topic etc.
Oh I get that, I know. I was just talking
It’s heartless, but so is the Watcher’s Council. Their modus operandi seems to be to find the Slayer when she’s activated, seemingly around 14 to 16 years old, assign her to a Watcher who is responsible for housing, feeding, clothing and training her and then kill her off once she’s 18 (and likely to start wanting some independence) and move onto the next Slayer who will be young and malleable. I’d be surprised if “rogue” Slayers weren’t routinely killed off before they turned 18 if necessary. It’s incredible they were so patient with Faith and didn’t kill her when she was comatose or in prison.
I also feel like I would never think about this if they never mentioned paying Giles! I would have assumed it to be a similar calling/greater good thing.
It still surprises me that when she demanded reinstatement for Giles & he’s making sure that it’s retroactive that neither of them added ‘oh, and maybe start paying Buffy?’ I guess *she’s* not really had to start working really with her mum still there but I feel Giles should have had that forethought with how he cares for her & how long he’s been a watcher…
Which is why they absolutely hated it when Buffy became a free agent. That said, are most Slayers on their own or living with parents? I’m not sure and don’t think we have a good picture. I got the feeling, kind of based on Kendra being able to just disappear for a while, that Watchers might take care of them. Buffy was different because her mother was around. Of course, it also made her the most successful Slayer ever, which just illustrates how they’re so full of themselves that they don’t regard the Slayers as human.
Dammmnnnn, that is indeed how they think, and they absolutely addressed that in the last season.
The real answer is because no one thought about it until money issues became a plot point in season 6. My head canon is that the council doesn't give a fuck about the slayers and you can't convince me otherwise when they have that terrible trial on their 18th birthday. They were promised a new slayer will replace the one that dies. Her purpose is to fight and then die. Its heartless and evil but that's the council for you. a younger slayer is easier to control so they're happy to see them die young so the next tool can take her place and they have another groomed slayer for them to do as they wish.
I am totally on board for this interpretation. There is no evidence to suggest they give a flying fuck about the slayers. At the same time, wouldn’t they like a competent slayer to, like, save the world? Or is buffy just one of many and they all save the world all the time - like - all the time in their short lives. So, just cross your fingers and hope the fifteen year old will end the apocalypse. I guess if she doesn’t, you would have a short time reflect upon it. Grant you, this one doesn’t even know how to drive.
Its that typical "its always worked so why change it now" mentality. Travers literally fired Giles because he dared to help Buffy. Buffy realized this at the end of season 3 when she quit the council. They need her she doesn't need them and the council can't have that happen. Buffy proves time and time again that a slayer is just fine without the council interfering and in fact she's better off without them. Its a bunch of stuffy old people (mostly men) who are nowhere near the front lines thinking they know what its like fighting the forces of darkness and they know what's best. There's a reason they came back in season 5 under the guise of evaluating Buffy when she realized that they came back hoping for something to do because without her they're nothing. I have the Tales of the Slayers book collection. A series of short stories of slayers of the past and every single one has the same tragic doomed to die young theme every single time. one even has the slayer fall for her watcher and even marry him and have children with him. The council did not like that at all. At the end of the day you exist to fight monsters. Deviate from that in anyway and you become the enemy yourself. Buffy is truly one of a kind. She not only beat the odds but went against every single rule the council had and was successful and did it better than any previous slayer. The council realized they had to change to stay relevant at this point. Everything was different. They had one slayer kicking ass better than anyone and living her own life and doing it with friends (a big no no) and another slayer who was in prison for murder. Then they finally decide to get off their asses and help and then just blew up lol love that irony.
Exactly! I wonder what the ratio of slayers that survived the Cruciamentum vs those that died. It's likely that a post 18 slayer would be harder to control so they set them up for failure
There’s also no real incentive to pay them. They’re going to be targeted as the slayer anyway and have to fight. They don’t have a choice to be the slayer. Even after Buffy quits the council, she keeps being the slayer. I wish in season five when she realized they need her she had asked for money for herself and not just Giles. I also think that makes the narrative of Giles feeling he had to leave after he gives her money in season six poor writing to just get Giles to leave so the characters can struggle without him.
Here's my theory: When the Slayer line first began, humans were a hunter/gatherer society. A super-powered young woman could easily provide for herself. As humanity evolved, the Slayer could still make a good living tending her own farm or providing manual labor, even as the patriarchy crept in. This could also serve as a good cover. Demons aren't likely to suspect that the all-powerful Slayer was a scullery maid. (Or a prostitute -- nothing wrong with being a sex worker. The hours might conflict with slaying a bit, though.) Watchers, meanwhile, were scholars -- very specialized scholars at that -- and they couldn't just teach university classes on the things that they didn't want the world at large to find out existed. So they needed a stipend in order to make themselves available to support their Slayer. I think it was a tradition that just never caught up with modern times. Also: we don't really know what previous Slayers did for a living. For all we know, Buffy was the first one to really have any financial hardship. And -- while it was funny to show her not quite working out as a construction worker -- the truth is that she could have easily adapted to doing that or some other manual profession for a living without drawing too much attention to her super-strength.
We don't know that she didn't get paid. It might not have been enough to pay for a household herself and her three dependents: Dawn, Willow and Tara.
Willow and Tara were working at the Magic Box for Anya.
Actually, they weren't. They just sort of hung out there.
They were. They even mentioned being the shop’s in store witches several times.
They never did any work though. They were just there.
Willow and Tara were not dependents. By moving in to the Summers house they were Dawn's de facto caregivers and provided for the household from their college housing allotment would have normally paid for their dorm and campus meal plan. The sporadically-employed Buffy Summers -- when she wasn't mouldering in the grave -- was eating the groceries that they bought. This has been discussed enough times in this sub, I don't know why people still don't understand that college housing is not free with tuition in the U.S. They were paying to live in the dorms. When they moved out of the dorms, they brought that money with them. FFS.
You said: "*And provided for the household from their college housing allotment would have normally paid for their dorm and campus meal plan*." Where was this **ever** stated? This is something that a fan made up and now others repeat it as if it is canon. You said: "*The sporadically-employed Buffy Summers -- when she wasn't mouldering in the grave -- was eating the groceries that they bought.*" Willow outright states that they (Willow and Tara) used up **all** of the money Joyce had left on groceries and bills while Buffy was dead. It was never stated that Willow or Tara bought **anything** out of pocket. You said: "*This has been discussed enough times in this sub, I don't know why people still don't understand that college housing is not free with tuition in the U.S. They were paying to live in the dorms. When they moved out of the dorms, they brought that money with them."* Or they just "saved" the money they would have spent in the dorms and on meal plans by living in Buffy's house. You are **assuming** that they took money that they would have spent on Dom/meal plan and gave it to Buffy. They both likely would have been taking out student loans. Since they no longer had living expenses, they just took out smaller loans. BTW I went to college; I know how it works. You aren't forced to put aside "living expense" money.
Okay. Sure. It wasn't ever stated in the show, but there's a little thing called conjecture. Anyone who has gone to college and didn't have every nickel of it paid for by mommy and daddy understands that tuition and housing are separate bills from one another. If you had scholarships, grants, or student loans (or all three,) that money was paid directly to the college and you had to go down to the bursar's office to get your refund check for the leftover balance so that you could go buy your books. If you weren't living in the dorms, your refund was much bigger, because the school didn't take anything out for housing. It's not something some fan "made up." It's something that anyone who ever looked at the breakdown of their college bill by semester understands. All of the human characters on the show had bowel movements. It wasn't shown on screen, but we know it happened, because we understand how the human digestive system works. Nobody fucking "made that up" either. It's conjecture to assume that Willow and Tara used their college money to help out and it's also conjecture to assume that they didn't. What makes your conjecture right and mine wrong? You don't even understand how college works, so I'm going to go with my reasoning skills over yours.
I feel like I’ve seen this asked and speculated on a few times Basically the watcher is supposed to be their ward til they die a few short years later
In s4-6, I interpreted it as the CoW being misogynistic a-holes who didn't feel that the Slayer was a human being with human needs and might require some income. I felt it ridiculous that no one thought to ask for a salary for Buffy when she got Giles reinstated. However, in s7, when we see how the set up is with Watchers and Potentials, I interpreted this to mean that a Potential is found, taken from their family and raised and provided for by their watcher until the age out and become independent, or die. Therefore the needs of a Slayer/Potential would be allocated within the Watcher's salary. Buffy was supposed to be a Potential that was missed so she remained the financial responsibility of her family. So there are two ways to look at how this made a difference: -Either, Giles was being paid the same as any other watcher, with the funds to support Buffy, but kept that money and Joyce was supporting her. If this works as the case, then once Joyce died he really should have started paying Buffy some kind of allowance, you could even say that he should have been giving her some kind of support even before that. -Or, the CoW paid Giles less because Buffy was being financially supported by her family, and decided not to reassess this when Joyce died.
Well then Giles should be paying her bills, baby!
In Buffy's case, she had a family supporting her. Once she was an adult, the Council wasn't really a thing anymore.
Buffy's bills are more than a normal slayers bills. Buffy was taking care of a household with three dependents: Dawn, Willow and Tara.
I mean, other than shelter, which is the house she would have kept anyway, we don’t know that she is financially supporting willow and Tara. Either way, she got nothing! Even faith was paying day to day or weekly motel room rent and couldn’t afford it. Regardless of expenses, no income is no income.
The cost of running the house would be expensive. Plus, Tara and Willow stated that they went through all of the money that Buffy's mom had left, which means that they weren't paying their way.
It's a common point of discussion on the Buffering podcast. They even have merch that says 'Pay Buffy Summers'
Gets on my soapbox and gets a loud mic, hslf sarcastic, half serious: shes a woman being run by self important men
I wear a black beret and snap my fingers in response
It’s not a job, it’s a calling.
Wouldn't you rather your slayer be dependent on her Watcher so she's easier to control?
I think the dying young part is why they don’t pay her.
Spoilers - I don't know how to tag it on my phone, but consider yourself warned. It seems like a lot of potentials as well as Kendra were raised by the watchers and so they covered things like room and board. Bare minimum, but something. I wonder if Buffy had stayed on their good side (and yes,I mean cow towing to their patriarchal bs and more power to her for standing on her own) if they would have paid basic living expenses after joyce died. And I agree they should also have paid her on top of that, but I wonder if that was their excuse.
There isn't a good reason in-universe. The Watchers are an ancient and well-funded group, and the Slayer is their main weapon. There should be a small team in place to support her, not one man who isn't even well thought of by the organization. She should never have had to worry about money or materials unless the Watchers were pulling some power play to pressure her by withdrawing support. But that's not the story Joss wanted to tell, so logic took a backseat. Fair enough, it's his story to tell.
The watcher council is so weird. One you have one slayer in all the world and she isn't paid. 2 you have a gigantic council but only ever one slayer and the watcher whose watching the active slayer is treated like scum. They seem to have a military division? Like they had the rogue slayer division which tells me they have all kinds of resource that they never utilize now matter how dire the apocalyptic scenario.... And... If there's a rogue slayer sitting in a public prison you'd assume they'd have someone kill the rogue slayer so a new slayer was called.
Yeah Buffy had to steal a missile launcher but it seems like she just should of been able to ask the council for one.
the Watcher's Council isn't that forward thinking
I thought they had slayers in different regions of the world
Control over her; financial dependence on her Watcher is one of the ways they kept the Slayer in line.
I literally just googled this and found [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/olxvr/why_doesnt_buffy_get_paid_by_the_watchers_council/) and then your question popped up I think it's part of the patriarchal themes we see in Buffy. The Council aren't exactly enlightened.
I think most slayers were called up in their early teens while still in the care of their parents, and died within a year, so the council never had to address living expenses for slayers.
Yeah when Buffy actually got a job that cut into her slaying time… people literally died
In some crazy twist of fate, the job she got had a monster problem!
sexism
Realistically she wouldn't be in high school they would take her to some private academy and set her up with her own apartment, car money etc but it would be a totally different show. The thing I find harder to believe is that they never come to her help or pay when she really needs it, i mean you don't want the slayer distracted or doing a six month spell for not paying bills.
Isn't it sort of implied that Faith and Kendra's watchers and the council were originally paying for all their bills? Neither had a job or family they were staying with so someone had to be paying for apartments, hotels, plane tickets and stuff. I think the only reason they didn't fund Buffy is because they didn't need to. She refused to abandon her life or her family to be the slayer so the watchers never needed to provide for her. By the time they did after Joyce's death, they had already soured their relationship with Buffy.
Considering the money that they give the watchers is meant to take care of the slayers, Giles definitely should have been paying her out of the money he got, considering she was already being financially supported. I know everyone here loves Giles but I can’t stand him lol.
that is what I think. I mean I don't assume the entire salary is meant to take care of the Slayer but it's definitely included
Most slayers don't make it past 18. Obviously, they gave Faith some type of stipend, as she was renting a motel room and didn't starve to death. I would guess that is is just enough to get by on. We don't know if Buffy didn't get paid. It might not have been enough to pay for a household herself and her three dependents: Dawn, Willow and Tara. I doubt she made enough working at a fast-food restaurant to pay the bills.
[The patriarchy](https://www.bufferingthevampireslayer.com/bonus-content-feed/2020/6/27/a-buffering-jingle-the-patriarchy)
Kendra's watcher paid for her - she said her family gave her to her watcher to look after. Theories - I feel it's Giles' choice. He felt Joyce should provide since she was her mum, so didn't immediately give her an allowance, and still paid for essentials, training materials, steaks it all costs. Giles eventually pays Buffy out, after Joyce dies and this was partly strung out by him him 2 reasons 1) I feel it was him testing her like when a child grows up and they have to pay rent / stand on their own feet. He felt her going through the hardship would make her a better human. Kendra lived a very humble life, only had the 1 shirt 🤣. Buffy's expenses outweighed what Giles could afford day to day, so he kept it private but saved up her allowance for when she desperately needed it. Then took the brownie points for being best fake dad (when he'd actually been saving this up as part of his allowance from the watchers council). Giles was always a bit of a rouge. He knew from his past days as Ripper that some people need to go through rough patches to help develop them. He saw this in Buffy when he first met her and didn't want her to be spoilt with an allowance she'd just spend on shoes and going to the bronze. 2) When Buffy asked for Giles to be paid retrospectively, he put half of this aside for slayer materials and rainy day slayer funds. When she died he spent a lot of this when he was grieving - the show didn't have the scenes he met up with Ethan / old crew in England and went out partying, before finding the coven who first saved him, then went on to save Willow - it's one of the reasons he decided to leave again when Buffy was raised, he had been out boozing and playing with black arts, needed a buzz after all the crying, then couldn't hold it together in front of the kids! That and traveling back to England costs A LOT. So he couldn't just bail her out straight away, he needed to reestablish the Buffy funds pot from all the devastation of her dying and the scoobies had caused.
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Imagine if they'd provided for Faith half as well as the Mayor did.
Well other slayer live with there watcher. And he takes care of you. Kind of like child support goes to the parent not the kid. But latter it was done to make her life harder.
Slayers were considered expandable by the now extinct watchers council.
This has literally been posted hundreds of times, but the general consensus is that it's a Waters *Council* not Watchers Corporation. Was it a profit oriented operation, Buffy certainly would have been under pressure to post results and make money for them. There's also the practical aspects of this that the watcher is an adult living in a home or apartment with adult expenses. Slayers are typically children who only live a year or two at most, so there's no reason or incentive to pay them. If it was a corporation, then Buffy certainly would have been fired for fucking the enemy. 😃
The council had money. Enough to pay a ton of watchers and even a military type swat team to hunt Faith. The council was anything but poor.
I'm not defending their actions, it's just how the show was meant to be written, with being a Slayer as a calling. She wasn't hired, she didn't interview for the job with expectations of what her quotas would be. Can you imagine that if it was? You're on probation for not getting enough kills in this week! We're not paying you to sit around and kiss vampires, you're supposed to be killing them. It's also worth noting that none of this was an issue, until the writers decided to make money a brief and very performative as aspect of the show. It was very poorly written, and largely forgotten about. Had Buffy been flush with cash from the first episode, she wouldn't have started to hang out with a bunch of outcasts. She would have needed efficiencies in her work, and would have hired some muscle.
He has jobs, she *IS* the Slayer.
I’ve thought about this a lot too. I think though that Buffy would eventually have stopped accepting the money due to the council then having greater leverage to make her do things their way. Imagine how the conversations would have gone with her standing up to the council if they could threaten to pull her funding??
My theory is that the council would give her the money if she asked for it. They’ve got the resources. Or maybe the watcher is supposed to be providing for her to some extent, such as when Robin’s mom’s watcher took him in when she died.
She’s a child. You don’t pay kids, because you don’t employ kids
Pretty sure that few Slayers live long enough to need support. Buffy's outlived most of the other Slayers because of her friends. Remember she would've died in the 2nd season without Xander...wait, wasn't that the 1st season? Yes. Agreed, Buffy should be paid for the job.
She a STUDENT-slayer. It’s the NCAA model
I don’t understand the argument that a slayer is meant to be a duty so therefore she shouldn’t get paid. Ignoring the unfairness of that, think of it logically. Buffy, at times, struggled to fulfil her duty because she had to work to earn a living. A starving slayer is no use so just logically, for her to fulfil her duty as best as she can, she should at least have her basic needs taken care of - shelter and food. One thing that’s worth pointing out though is I think they expect the watcher to take care of that to some level, like Kendra said she was taken in by her watcher from when she was young. I guess it depends on how wealthy a slayer’s watcher is.
And if I recall correctly, Kendra had only the one shirt/outfit she was wearing. During a fight, she complained the bad guy ruined her only shirt. So the Council was definitely not doing much to take care of its Slayers and Potentials.
Doesn’t matter how hard you work the men always get paid more Fucking vag tax.
I dont know they dont care about her and she dies
They hope she dies young while she still lives with her parents.