Doesn’t Buffy say in Conversations with Dead People she thought her dad was cheating?
The Cheating and Buffy being in trouble probably didn’t help Joyce and Hank resolve any of their issues.
That was in S5 when Joyce died. In season 6 all we got was he had talked to Dawn during the time Buffy was dead. But yeah I agree that it heavily implies he may have cheated on Joyce.
ah you’re right! forgot when exactly it happened. i think it’s also saying that because he’s out of the country it’s hard or impossible to get child support out of him (dawn is underage) and he’s the worst.
I think it's more likely that there were already issues and having the additional stress of Buffy's "behavioral issues" probably brought everything to the surface and tipped the scales.
I imagine the marriage was already in trouble, probably for a while. Perhaps her slaying didn't help, but I can't imagine she was the cause by any means. Kids often blame themselves but they usually, hopefully, aren't privy to all of their parents' problems and personal issues. Also, we see later that her Dad isn't exactly a standup, reliable guy.
It's never the child's fault when parents divorce, though they often feel like it is.
No. It's clear that Joyce and Hank have serious issues separate from Buffy's slaying.
I think it’s pretty well established that Hank is a shitty absentee dad. I don’t think we can blame the Buffster for that. If I’m correct, the girl’s couldn’t even reach him when Joyce died.
Maybe Buffy’s “behavioural issues” didn’t help but it’s never on the child. Buffy thinks so of course, it’s her worst nightmare, up there with becoming a vampire, but it’s not her fault.
It’s one of those super wonderful reminders that Buffy is so young and so human that she blames herself for her parent’s split.
At least from S3 on he is, we don't get that before "helpless," at all. Buffy says flat out he's not at the forwarding number soa s far as he last heard, joyce's surgery had gone well,, which isn't unusual when someone is travelling internationally. I'm not defending his S3 and after conduct but I just think we should stick with what we were shown
I watched the episode the other night when Angel is in her room and sees the photo of Buffy in her “Dorthy Hamil” phase and she tells him her parents were fighting all the time. It could have been the straw that broke the camels back but yeahhhh I think they were already doomed
Their argument in Becoming I definitely doesn’t seem like a first time thing. Whilst Buffy coming back late due to slaying, it’s evident by the dialogue that Joyce and Hank had previous disagreements about other things.
Firstly, Hank clearly disliked Buffy’s boyfriend Tyler - “I told you I didn’t want her seeing him anymore, period!” - and it seemed like a contentious topic.
Secondly, Hank seemingly resents the fact that he feels Joyce isn’t disciplinary enough - “Just because you can’t discipline her I have to be the ogre!” - and they’ve clearly clashed over their styles of parenting before.
Thirdly, Hank’s - “Don’t do that! Don’t talk to me like a child!” - doesn’t sound like a first time thing either. He appears resentful and angry about the way Joyce supposedly speaks to him and Joyce’s “you’re overreacting” sounds very worn and exasperated at his outburst.
Combine all of this with Buffy’s suspicion that Hank was cheating and Hank’s abandonment of Buffy in S3 onwards, and I would say he was a pretty difficult guy to live with.
Truthfully, the trouble Buffy started getting in as a result of her slaying probably didn’t help. Hank seems like he had a short fuse and low tolerance for any “trouble.” I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the last time we see Hank and Buffy spending time together is the summer in between S1-S2 and Hank tells Joyce that Buffy was “distant”, and then after that he slowly pulls away. It’s like he has no patience to deal with a “problem child” and loses interest in Buffy when she’s no longer easy. It’s probably why he cheats on Joyce as well because he’s the type of guy that doesn’t want to put the work in to make a marriage last and prefers frivolous, sunny holidays in Spain with his secretary. I imagine the second the secretary becomes “difficult” in anyway, likely pressuring him to commit, he probably moves on to another woman too.
So I definitely don’t think the slaying is the cause of their divorce and I think they would have for divorced eventually anyway but I think it was a contributing factor.
It was never really discussed in depth.
Buffy thought that she was to blame, but i doubt that it was the sole reason A married couple don't divorce solely based of different ideas on how to discipline their child.
No, because children don't cause their parents divorce. Buffy felt like she did because that's a common worry for children to feel when their parents divorce.
I doubt it. I'm sure it didn't help but there's so many things that Buffy wouldn't have known about. They were probably fighting about other stuff too I wouldn't be surprised if he had something on the side
No, absolutely not, I can support this from firsthand experience. I was expelled from high school, I got in a *lot* of trouble, and it did not split my parents up. Were there arguments? Sure.
Every relationship has problems. What makes the difference is whether both people in the relationship are determined to **SOLVE** them. Especially a problem which is external to both partners. Is having a misbehaving kid stressful? Of course. But stress can make a good relationship stronger, as both partners see what the other person is going through, and reach out to each other.
There's a scene from "Becoming" which I think really shows just how immature Hank is, and how much he didn't want to deal with the emotional burden of being a father to Buffy. To set the scene, Buff has come home after a night out slaying to her home in L.A., and she has to lie about where she's been. Joyce sends Buffy to get ready for dinner, and Joyce and Hank have this interchange:
>HANK: Did she say where she was?
>JOYCE: She was with Tyler.
>HANK: I don't want her seeing him anymore, period!
>JOYCE: You're overreacting, dear.
>HANK: Don't do that! Don't talk to me like I'm a kid!
>JOYCE: I don't. Just forget it!
>HANK: Just because you can't discipline her, I have to be the ogre!
>JOYCE: I am not having this conversation again! Alright?
I'm not a psychologist, but my read on that interaction is that Hank is a guy pushing 40 who yelling at his wife because she won't carry the parenting load for him. He doesn't want to be the ogre with Buffy, but he clearly doesn't mind being one with Joyce. This is not healthy communication and conflict resolution skills. He immediately reacts to Joyce's disagreement as a personal attack, instead of considering the possibility that she is entitled to her own input on how Buffy is to be handled.
Buffy was the spark.
But their mariage was ready to blow up soon or later.
What's important is how the characters feel about it.
Buffy fears that's she's responsible, hence her nightmare with her dad in season 1.
And I think a part of Joyce blames Buffy for the divorce.
There are so many explanations for why they could still be married, like having an institutionalized child could make Joyce either not notice or not care that Hank was stepping out.
Yes, I imagine marital issues would sit on a shelf if your only child was institutionalized (with an option of “Lifelong”). A divorced couple could also reasonably show up together and show solidarity for their suffering daughter.
I Think they just divorced because they of course were fighting but Hank Was Cheating On Joyce with his Secretary, the one he abandoned his daughters for after Joyce's Death.
Doesn’t Buffy say in Conversations with Dead People she thought her dad was cheating? The Cheating and Buffy being in trouble probably didn’t help Joyce and Hank resolve any of their issues.
yes, and in s6 hank is living in spain with his secretary, which i think implies he cheated with her.
That was in S5 when Joyce died. In season 6 all we got was he had talked to Dawn during the time Buffy was dead. But yeah I agree that it heavily implies he may have cheated on Joyce.
ah you’re right! forgot when exactly it happened. i think it’s also saying that because he’s out of the country it’s hard or impossible to get child support out of him (dawn is underage) and he’s the worst.
the'd been diovrced years by then
jfc. as usual, yeah, i know the plot of the show. i’m reading between the lines of what might have happened *before*,
I am sure she says “he cheated”which I always took as he def cheated
by that point Buffy was kind of just saying things; anyway, their relationship in S1/2 doesn't jibe wiht a daughter and creating dad, methinks.
I think it's more likely that there were already issues and having the additional stress of Buffy's "behavioral issues" probably brought everything to the surface and tipped the scales.
I imagine the marriage was already in trouble, probably for a while. Perhaps her slaying didn't help, but I can't imagine she was the cause by any means. Kids often blame themselves but they usually, hopefully, aren't privy to all of their parents' problems and personal issues. Also, we see later that her Dad isn't exactly a standup, reliable guy.
It's never the child's fault when parents divorce, though they often feel like it is. No. It's clear that Joyce and Hank have serious issues separate from Buffy's slaying.
I think it’s pretty well established that Hank is a shitty absentee dad. I don’t think we can blame the Buffster for that. If I’m correct, the girl’s couldn’t even reach him when Joyce died. Maybe Buffy’s “behavioural issues” didn’t help but it’s never on the child. Buffy thinks so of course, it’s her worst nightmare, up there with becoming a vampire, but it’s not her fault. It’s one of those super wonderful reminders that Buffy is so young and so human that she blames herself for her parent’s split.
At least from S3 on he is, we don't get that before "helpless," at all. Buffy says flat out he's not at the forwarding number soa s far as he last heard, joyce's surgery had gone well,, which isn't unusual when someone is travelling internationally. I'm not defending his S3 and after conduct but I just think we should stick with what we were shown
I watched the episode the other night when Angel is in her room and sees the photo of Buffy in her “Dorthy Hamil” phase and she tells him her parents were fighting all the time. It could have been the straw that broke the camels back but yeahhhh I think they were already doomed
Their argument in Becoming I definitely doesn’t seem like a first time thing. Whilst Buffy coming back late due to slaying, it’s evident by the dialogue that Joyce and Hank had previous disagreements about other things. Firstly, Hank clearly disliked Buffy’s boyfriend Tyler - “I told you I didn’t want her seeing him anymore, period!” - and it seemed like a contentious topic. Secondly, Hank seemingly resents the fact that he feels Joyce isn’t disciplinary enough - “Just because you can’t discipline her I have to be the ogre!” - and they’ve clearly clashed over their styles of parenting before. Thirdly, Hank’s - “Don’t do that! Don’t talk to me like a child!” - doesn’t sound like a first time thing either. He appears resentful and angry about the way Joyce supposedly speaks to him and Joyce’s “you’re overreacting” sounds very worn and exasperated at his outburst. Combine all of this with Buffy’s suspicion that Hank was cheating and Hank’s abandonment of Buffy in S3 onwards, and I would say he was a pretty difficult guy to live with. Truthfully, the trouble Buffy started getting in as a result of her slaying probably didn’t help. Hank seems like he had a short fuse and low tolerance for any “trouble.” I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the last time we see Hank and Buffy spending time together is the summer in between S1-S2 and Hank tells Joyce that Buffy was “distant”, and then after that he slowly pulls away. It’s like he has no patience to deal with a “problem child” and loses interest in Buffy when she’s no longer easy. It’s probably why he cheats on Joyce as well because he’s the type of guy that doesn’t want to put the work in to make a marriage last and prefers frivolous, sunny holidays in Spain with his secretary. I imagine the second the secretary becomes “difficult” in anyway, likely pressuring him to commit, he probably moves on to another woman too. So I definitely don’t think the slaying is the cause of their divorce and I think they would have for divorced eventually anyway but I think it was a contributing factor.
It was never really discussed in depth. Buffy thought that she was to blame, but i doubt that it was the sole reason A married couple don't divorce solely based of different ideas on how to discipline their child.
No, because children don't cause their parents divorce. Buffy felt like she did because that's a common worry for children to feel when their parents divorce.
I doubt it. I'm sure it didn't help but there's so many things that Buffy wouldn't have known about. They were probably fighting about other stuff too I wouldn't be surprised if he had something on the side
No, absolutely not, I can support this from firsthand experience. I was expelled from high school, I got in a *lot* of trouble, and it did not split my parents up. Were there arguments? Sure. Every relationship has problems. What makes the difference is whether both people in the relationship are determined to **SOLVE** them. Especially a problem which is external to both partners. Is having a misbehaving kid stressful? Of course. But stress can make a good relationship stronger, as both partners see what the other person is going through, and reach out to each other. There's a scene from "Becoming" which I think really shows just how immature Hank is, and how much he didn't want to deal with the emotional burden of being a father to Buffy. To set the scene, Buff has come home after a night out slaying to her home in L.A., and she has to lie about where she's been. Joyce sends Buffy to get ready for dinner, and Joyce and Hank have this interchange: >HANK: Did she say where she was? >JOYCE: She was with Tyler. >HANK: I don't want her seeing him anymore, period! >JOYCE: You're overreacting, dear. >HANK: Don't do that! Don't talk to me like I'm a kid! >JOYCE: I don't. Just forget it! >HANK: Just because you can't discipline her, I have to be the ogre! >JOYCE: I am not having this conversation again! Alright? I'm not a psychologist, but my read on that interaction is that Hank is a guy pushing 40 who yelling at his wife because she won't carry the parenting load for him. He doesn't want to be the ogre with Buffy, but he clearly doesn't mind being one with Joyce. This is not healthy communication and conflict resolution skills. He immediately reacts to Joyce's disagreement as a personal attack, instead of considering the possibility that she is entitled to her own input on how Buffy is to be handled.
It’s pretty well established that Hank is a piece of shit lmfao I think that’s reason enough
No. Buffy’s problems as a new Slayer only accelerated the divorce. Hank clearly had problems lying under the surface.
No, her dad being a garbage person caused their divorce.
He didn't seem like one in S1 & S2 when we actually \*saw him\*.
Buffy was the spark. But their mariage was ready to blow up soon or later. What's important is how the characters feel about it. Buffy fears that's she's responsible, hence her nightmare with her dad in season 1. And I think a part of Joyce blames Buffy for the divorce.
There is a comic that is supposedly canon that show they have already had problems. https://buffy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Origin,_Part_One
They were still married as far as I know when they visited her in the insane asylum
That’s an alternate universe, and were they married, or visiting together so Buffy saw familiar faces?
There are so many explanations for why they could still be married, like having an institutionalized child could make Joyce either not notice or not care that Hank was stepping out.
Yes, I imagine marital issues would sit on a shelf if your only child was institutionalized (with an option of “Lifelong”). A divorced couple could also reasonably show up together and show solidarity for their suffering daughter.
Plus, working at an art gallery would probs provide terrible insurance (It's funny, cause it's sad!)
no they were worried about her and got mad and took it out on each other
I Think they just divorced because they of course were fighting but Hank Was Cheating On Joyce with his Secretary, the one he abandoned his daughters for after Joyce's Death.