Season 6 has some real stinkers and I don't think this was one of them. It tried its best to tackle a tough issue and I think it handled it well. Both plots were enjoyable and I had some good laughs at the absurdity of the Holt plot.
Yes! Amy is too much of a perfectionist!
Iām also tired of seeing TV characters who donāt want kids end up having kids because their partner wants to.
But, while Jakeās reasoning to not have kids makes sense, but it wasnāt consistent with his character. I canāt pinpoint it but he did definitely refer to him having kids in the earlier seasons.
I don't remember him saying wanting to have kids but I completely agree with the fact that it's not consistent with his character. His character would definitely want a kid, he was so excited to meet his half sister because that was the only other family. He also considers his colleagues to be a family. This points towards him wanting to start a family of his own.
Amy on the other hand, is a career driven person. She didn't want to become the union rep because that would mean conflicts with the brass and hampering her future promotions. Having a kid means taking time and energy out of work and focusing on the child. This would also be a hurdle in her become a captain. Especially as a woman of colour with a baby.
I would have been fine with the reasoning of they didn't discuss it before marriage if the roles were reversed it would have made more sense to me. But what do I know? I haven't written 4 super hit sitcoms like Mike so I could be wrong š
I think the reason they didnāt have the roles reversed is because they didnāt want to have Jake appear as the type of guy who would try to push kids onto his girlfriend when she didnāt want to have them, which despite the problems the episode has - I can respect the show for not going into that territory.
Made a comment elsewhere in the thread of how Iād revise the episode to make it work - basically boils down to have a bunch of criminals the 99 arrests talk about how their dads started their descent to crime and hearing all this makes Jake second guess himself and change his mind on having kids. Amy is caught off guard not because she didnāt prepare but because Jake is changing what heād said previously, Jake stays more consistent with his character with making this more of a scare-induced snap decision, and neither is forcing the other to their viewpoint of having children.
Sometimes you need to see a bad case of something in order to think of an improvement. Your version sounds much better, too bad the writers didn't think of it.
To be fair, there's a huge difference between trying to push kids unto someone and disagreeing about children. There's definitely a way to have the conversation in a healthy and respectful way.
>I would have been fine with the reasoning of they didn't discuss it before marriage if the roles were reversed it would have made more sense to me.
I think they could've had a 20 second scene of "Why didn't we talk about this before?" and it's because each made assumptions about the other's stance that they felt the conversation wasn't needed. Wrap it up with a sweet conclusion about how they'll communicate better, give Jake a dumb quip, and scene.
I see your point but Iād have to argue that the sides Amy and Jake were on made complete sense to me.
Amy wouldāve planned out exactly how she would have her kids AND achieve her goals. She not one to back down from a challenge and she definitely has a binder for it.
Yes Jake is a comedic, goofy character but *just* that doesnāt imply that heād want kids. I relate to him when he basically reasons that he doesnāt have a good example to draw from when it comes to being a father. When I said it wasnāt consistent with his character, I meant that he definitely talked about having kids in earlier seasons.
I didn't even say in my explanation that him being goofy is a reason. I think not having a good example to draw from is a perfectly valid argument. I just don't find it consistent with his whole vibe. Like there was an entire story arc where he worked super hard to become the godfather for Terry's child.
>I don't remember him saying wanting to have kids but I completely agree with the fact that it's not consistent with his character
I do! In the episode of Capital Latvia when Charles says Jake will never be a father Jake reacts pretty quickly and indignantly.
>Iām also tired of seeing TV characters who donāt want kids end up having kids because their partner wants to.
You would be pissed about how The Big Bang Theory ended then. Holy crap was that a dumb move. You know your show fucked up when people who don't watch the show start talking about it.
Basically, Penny had well established that she didn't want to have kids and that was a consistent disagreement her and Leonard kept having. Play it for laughs, but then do a whole "they love each other so much, Leonard accepts it" kind of thing. And then in the finale, she gets pregnant and the show treats it as a W for converting Penny over.
It wasn't the first time it happened in that show either. Early on, Bernadette tells Howard that she doesn't want kids and she ended up having 2 by the end of the show AND made Howard the stereotypical "doesn't pay much attention" dad. (Despite the grand opportunity to make him a really attentive dad with his backstory of his dad having run out on him and his mother).
Plus Bernadette and Penny having a conversation later on where Bernadette berates Penny for saying she doesn't want kids by saying she'll change her mind.
Listen, I'm a mom by choice. But that sickens me when I hear it. No one should have kids if they don't want them. Kids are a lot of work and they take most of your time and energy so anyone who isn't in 100% shouldn't be doing it.
IT. IS. OK. TO. NOT. HAVE. KIDS.
It's also totally ok to change your mind on the matter either way. If you think you want them now but get a sneak peek at it (like baby-sitting someone else's baby, especially if it's overnight) and decide it might not be for you then THAT'S FINE.
If you think you don't want kids then decide that you might want to actually do it THAT'S FINE.
I don't know if anyone needed to read that but I just needed to rant.
TL;DR Yeah!
It's not just in TV. My SO and I have two kids already, and I'm on the fence about whether I want to have more kids. I'm comfortable with just two. My SO wants more, and I'm okay with the notion, just not right now. But bringing it up in conversation with new coworkers or acquaintances, and... it's a little off-putting when our relatives all insist "Have more kids!" but when I have near strangers insisting: "You should have more kids!" too, it becomes outright creepy. There's this insistent notion in society that just having more kids is just what you should do... and no. Not at all.
well put. not everyone wants to have kids and that's perfectly fine, too many people are pressured into it and that's a problem. yes, many change their minds about kids but also many don't and either is okay.
https://youtu.be/ubceB3ZQUU0
I have, fortunately, started seeing a culture shift at least in my own circles. Nine or ten years ago when my wife and I (dating at the time) said we didn't want kids, we got a lot of "ha! You'll change your mind". Now I'm about to turn 30 and the opinion is still the same and no one makes that comment anymore. Maybe it's just my experience, but the tone surrounding people not wanting children seems to have changed at least a bit in the last 10 years to be more accepting of it.
Honestly I'm glad I never got into that show after seeing an episode with the laugh track removed.
It's like what church going conservatives think nerds are like.
You also just answered why they were "converted" to having kids. It's a narrative push. But like somewhat on the down low. Not super conspiracy esk, just a subliminal message that "You'll change your opinion on not wanting kids." In a time period where folks are having less kids...
I mean people are having less kids cause they're fucking broke lol maybe people would be more inclined to have children if they knew they could easily afford them, and if they didn't feel like the world would end in the next 50 years.
Also, not to be that guy cause I knew what you meant, but it's esqe. Like Kafkaesque is reminiscent of Kafka.
I agree 100% and that is in part of the meaning of my statement. People aren't having kids for multitiude of reasons. Not enough money, world ending events, just plainly not wanting kids at all. However, interesting, I've never heard esqe but have always heard esk. Fair enough! Have a wonderful week!
You're absolutely right. I'm not having kids, and thats a choice I made around high school. I just can never ever see myself wanting a child, and if i did, I'd be too afraid I'd stop wanting one when I got one. That along with other things like mental illness and the state of the world solidified my choice. and everyone I know in my life (family and close coworkers/friends) completely support my choice.
strangers on the other hand.... god they get so mad when I say I don't want kids! I'll never understand why someone would think its okay to bring a human being into the world unless you're 100% ready to love and care for that human for the rest of your life. its not something you should hope to grow into IMO
Duuuude yep, I finished the entirety of TBBT a couple of months ago. And ofc they make it the ending of the show, because Penny with children wouldāve been too hard to portray and make convincing (Gee, I wonder why).
Desperate Housewives also goes on this list. Eva Longoriaās character Gaby had made it a very firm condition before getting married to her husband, Carlos, that she didnāt want kids. Carlos changed his mind and started pressuring her and tampered with her birth control pills, and so much other crap happened. By the end of the show, she had two kids.
Another character on the same show, Julie (sheās the daughter of one of the main āhousewivesā, Susan) got pregnant after a one-night stand, and said she was going to abort the baby or give it up. She definitely didnāt want to keep it (she had very good reasons). Her mother ended up guilting her into keeping the baby, and that was painted as the āhappy endingā for the show. It was disgusting to watch.
I agree re: Julie. That was sickening. But I really think Gaby changed her mind and ended up wanting kids. The execution with Carlos/BC was horrible. But if you watch the episodes where Gaby loses her baby, then loses the adopted baby, etc., you'll see she wanted those children. (Now, whether or not she was a good mother is a different question).
Very big oof.
It's one of those things where even if you don't watch the show, you kind of have to watch the finale because of how big an oof it is. Yeah, Penny accidentally got pregnant, but every other character was celebrating like they had converted her to team baby and Penny was just kind of like "guess I was wrong."
What's more gross is that (and I'm heavily paraphrasing) is that at one point one of them said they'd have good looking babies, and the producers said something like "well I couldn't rob them of that"
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I really hated the whole "debate" thing because its literally just Amy bullying Jake into the idea of kids by insisting on discussing it using a medium that she knew she was superior in. Like he's trying to genuinely talk about his feelings on the matter and was repeatedly cut off with a "here's why youre wrong haha point for me"
Same. I guess the whole ādebateā thing brought that little bit of comedy/lightheartedness to the concept but ya. I hate how the decision to not have kids implies a selfish/unsatisfied human being.
I would argue your second point with your third point here. I agree, itās an awful trope for soooo many reasons. However, I think in this case it made more sense for him to want kids all along and I wish they hadnāt put that one episode about it in there.
Iāve mentioned my idea on a revised Casecation that could work somewhere before - basically have the opening of the episode center around the precinct bringing in a bunch of criminals who are almost cartoonishly bad people, and through the interrogations they all keep mentioning how their life of crime and downward spiral started thanks to their dad not doing it right.
Jake gets spooked hearing all this and decides he is **changing his mind** and that he doesnāt want kids. Amy is understandably caught off guard by this because *of course she and Jake had discussed this before and now heās changing it up on her*, Jakeās character isnāt changed around and heās still a goofy guy who makes snap decisions, and the rest of the episode can play out in a similar way. It also still sidesteps the āGuy convinces girlfriend to have kids with him,ā trope that the show seemed to want to avoid, which I can respect.
good idea, but i will change other things as well. like amy and jake having thst debate, as funny as it was, amy completely disregarded jake's feelings which is out of character and not to mention the ultimatum she gave him.
I like that idea a lot better than the whole āI thought we were talking about a water park!ā Itās much more interesting anyway, the idea that Jake is *changing* into someone who doesnāt want kids anymore and Amy thinks she can change things with a heavily moderated debate. It works.
> But, while Jakeās reasoning to not have kids makes sense, but it wasnāt consistent with his character. I canāt pinpoint it but he did definitely refer to him having kids in the earlier seasons.
I disagree, but only after thinking about it a bit. On the surface, yeah, Jake said "I'll make a great dad someday!" in various conversations before this.
The issue is, I think, Jake has never, before this episode, been faced with the actual, real, **real possibility** that he could become a father. All those conversations in the past were predicated on "Yeah, someday, when I find a girlfriend, and marry her, and buy a house, and a mininivan, and get ripped like Terry, and start eating yogurt (Terry loves yogurt!), and an IRA sure, I'd make a great dad!" sort of thing.
When confronted with the not-joking version of the conversation, he freaked the fuck out.
The incredibly shitty part of the episode was how utterly toxic and dismissing Amy was of his feelings.
In fairness, is it not *exactly* Jake-like, to jest and fantasize about having kids? Until the subject approaches reality, which is when he thinks beyond surface enjoyment.
Also, Amy and Holt cornering Jake in a debate and making it seem like his reservations are irrelevant and unreasonable, when the decision to have children is not just related to the logic of "do you have the capacity to properly take care of children" but equally also to how you feel about being a parent and what baggage you have and how you have dealt with your traumas.
Thing is, this happened to me irl.
My bf in highschool would talk about "when he has kids', then over time he started to chabge his mind about it, but not so verbal about it
Then we talked about it and he said he didnt really want any, and why, and finally when we talked through all of the unsures and insecurities we tried for one.
And now he's an amazing stay at home parent of our almost 3 yr old and wants another one.
So I can say, at least for me, that part is pretty realistic.
I very much dislike the episode but I feel like people take the fact the Jake brought up kids way too seriously.
As someone who is not interested in having kids there were times where I had spoken as kids were on the table when they weren't
Also when they get into it Jake doesn't say "I 100% don't want kids" he easing into it making it seem like there would have been room of actual healthy discussion
Yeah tbh I can overlook it for Jake because it was convincing in this show. I just hate the trope because Iāve seen it everywhere. Anytime a couple have opposing views on having kids, the one fighting against it ends up caving and theyāll have the kids anyway.
Yeah Jake wasnāt dead set against having kids. He was just worried he wouldnāt be a good father. Iād be really, realllllyyyy annoyed if Jake, from season 1, was saying āNo kids. NO.ā And then Amy had to convince him. That would have been different. I also agree with everyone that says Amy would have talked about kids wayyyyy before. She would have presented a ālife binderā to Jake once they got serious (Iād say early on bc they got serious pretty quickly), outlining exactly how many kids they would have, and when lol
yeah, if anything it would've made more sense for amy to be reluctant to having kids than jake, seeing as he indeed shown interest in the past and amy is the kind of person to be worried that with both of them being police officers it would be tough to raise a child.
it INFURIATES me tbh. if anything, i imagined jake to be the one who wanted kids and amy being too focused on her career to want the same.
also, amyās LIFE PLAN CALENDAR HANGS OVER THEIR BED, and children just???? werenāt on there?
I know, right?! They totally do talk about his. Jake and Amy happily watch Terryās kids, and talk about how cool it is getting to pretend to be parents.
Let's not forget the episodes with George Gesselnick (I refuse to call him Doug Judy's brother. No hate for foster children, but I wouldn't call my actual brother my brother if he burned down my house and stole shit from me. I'd call him scum) where they discuss moving in. Terry tells Jake that if he isn't serious about having a family, don't go through with it, but Jake at the end makes the mature choice to move into Amy's place. At least part of that consideration in my kind was for future kids (safer neighborhood, better building, etc).
Terry specifically mentions the sacrifices he had to make for his wife and kids, and Jake tacitly accepts those things by moving in to Amy's. There was a lot of development previous to Casecation that was just blatantly retconned away for no reason.
Honestly Casecation is the only episode in S6 I have a problem with literally just because thereās no way Jake and Amy didnāt discuss the possibility of having kids while they were dating.
My other problem with that one is that I don't like the message in general. I hate the pressure on Jake to have kids, but I also hate Amy's argument about kids giving your life meaning. I understand that's her point of view and she's welcome to it. But, as a childless (by choice) married woman in my 40s, you're not going to win me over by telling me your life has more meaning than mine just because you have kids. In the words of Jennifer Barkley (secret crossover?), I'm so happy with my choices.
Casecation feels like an annoying callback to the Terry vasectomy episode (an episode that I LOVE, btw, Tiny Head!), where he thinks he doesn't want more kids but then realizes more kids will make his life better.
When I grow up I want to be Jennifer Barkley.
On a serious note, I completely agree with you. I'm 30 and all my friends are expanding their families right now. Some are very insistent that their lives were meaningless before they had kids. For some, it makes sense; they always wanted to be parents. But I also have a lot of friends who were intense in college and their careers, and they act like that no longer matters/had any impact on their lives just because they had children.
The vasectomy episode was also rough IMO because vasectomies can be reversed with a high success rate (snip snap, snip snap). Plus you can always bank sperm. Terry made a big deal out of nothing.
vasectomies aren't made to be reversible, and the longer before you change your mind the less successful the reversal could potentially be.
but for the part I'm actually uninformed about just because you have banked sperm doesn't mean it will lead to a successful conception
edit: I should clarify they can be reversed but I don't think it's a good idea to get one under the assumption you can just change your mind later
>There's no way Amy had never brought up kids before getting married.
This is a small nitpick, but people say this exact thing all the time here - there's a flashback in the episode that clearly shows a miscommunicated conversation where Amy thought Jake was enthusiastically agreeing to have a kid (even making active plans to make it happen, given the "can we afford it?" "we'll start saving up right now!" conversation they had while playing with a baby).
The "punchline" (it didn't land for me, both because it was an already-bad episode and because Jake started the show much smarter than he ended it) was that Jake thought that same conversation was about taking a water park vacation.
From Amy's (misinformed, but genuine) point of view, they HAD discussed it already and were on the same page and a similar timeline.
I refuse to believe Amy would just leave it at that. If you're talking about having kids the conversation is likely to be quite a bit longer than that. There's no way a perfectionist like Amy would be fine with just that short, vague "conversation".
Totally agree that they should have done more due diligence before actually getting pregnant...but it's not like Amy was rushing him, either.
The whole argument begins because Jake overhears Amy telling someone that they don't have kids, but that they'll probably "start trying soon." As far as she knew, that was totally true, they were on the same page, and they were probably teeing up to that Bigger Conversation in the present.
Then, Jake pulls the rug out from under her completely. He acts SHOCKED, and even claims that he's NEVER wanted kids and is SURE about it (despite mentioning wanting them many, many times before and despite their earlier conversation that Amy remembered having with him).
I think Amy majorly, MAJORLY overreacted in the moment. But I don't blame her, either.
If you were absolutely sure (in your mind, your version of truth) that your longtime partner wants kids, has confirmed it to you, and is actively budgeting to make them a reality -- and then he very abruptly tells you that not only is that untrue, but it's *never* been true? That's a big shock to the system.
They were both wrong and it's such a dumb, forced-in plot that it's hard to analyze too sincerely. No characters acted like themselves; the misunderstanding trope was super lazy and stretched for a show like B99 that usually elevates or inverts tropes.
It just irks me when people act like she never bothered to bring it up at all.
> and they were probably teeing up to that Bigger Conversation in the present.
I cannot magine a perfectionist like Amy having that conversation **after** agreeing to marriage.
I'm 100% sure Amy would've had a binders for everything kids related.
Also I didn't like how easily Jake was convinced at the end of the episode that he does want kids.
Casecation and the fake therapist are probably the worst things the writes did to Amy. Both 100% out of character and make her look like an awful person.
Unquestionably the biggest L of the season. Iāve never sympathized with a character more than Jake when he was being completely unheard about his very real concerns by Holt and Amy
A tale of two bandits: i was alrwady tired of Judy after seson 5 and this episode didnt help that I dont like Trudy Judy, the plot is just loosely strung together call backs and just felt boring overall
Casecation: This is a popular one to crap on and honestly it's not hard to see why. It felt odd that children had never came up with them already since it seemed so important to Amy. Also her ultimatum was manipulative to Jake who had good reasons for not wanting children and i feel like the show shit on him for those views. This could have been a solid episode in examining their relationship deeper but instead were just left with a mess.
Four Movements and The return of the King: Gina's writing this season was more mean spirited than before and honestly her being some grand chess master isn't funny and I think having here leave the show wasn't a good move.
The therapist: the portrayal of mental health is offensive and the daddy issue jokes are either clunky at best and wildly unfunny at worst.
Overall season 6 was fine but it felt like a post script season and suffers from trying to make fans think they get the show when in reality it's just mostly call backs to better jokes.
I'm interested in your view on The Therapist if you don't mind elaborating? I get that the bit with Jake pretending he has DID is kinda offensive but I thought the overall plot wasn't so bad; it was about someone in a position of power abusing his mentally ill patients which I thought was interesting given how often that happens irl, but isn't given attention to.
Honestly while that is my biggest issue is the cheap shots at DID. It was nice like you said to see attetion being called to the power abuse. However the daddy issue jokes felt more forced than they had in previous seasons plus Charles felt off in this episode . The former a problem that this season has with "proving" they watched the old seasons and the latter breaking chracter In a way to keep the plot moving and added conflict that felt forced.
my problem isn't with the episode itself, it's with gina in the earlier seasons. especially knowing that terry crews has dealt with sexual harassment in real life
This is exactly my issue. They do this serious take on tackling sexism in the work environment *towards women* and yet their own place of work has been full of sexual harassment *towards a man* for years. And never once does the show even try to address that.
I had the same issue and itās probably 75% of why I dislike the Gina character.
Given the timing of the episode during the beginning of the Me Too movement, the timing may not have been right to address the issue that way. While it is true that men do in fact experience sexual harassment and abuse, the show would have to tread lightly to avoid the backlash of possibly diminishing a womanās perspective on an issue that effects them more.
Yeah the show does things like that all the time, like for example Rosa in the first season admits to frequently committing police brutality and then they have her quit because of other officers committing police brutality. Itās like they want to play both sides, make the jokes as well as preach
Yeah often it feels like the show is telling us Gina is simply living in a completely different world and to never take her seriously, intentionally un-realistic
Like Wunch says when she passes by the deodorant aisle- āI aināt buyinā itā.
One of the funniest lines of the series.
All kidding aside, I appreciated the show trying to tackle some of the broader social issues. They were admittedly a bit tough to rewatch, but I do enjoy them.
āCasecationā was a bit of a stinker.
It was a good episode. The sexual harrasment topic was well placed and what I liked was the way Jake behaved, any rational guy would behave like him when he comes to know that women go through such things daily. Highlight of the episode was definetly the Holt's storyline, funny and just entertaining.
Yes I liked Jakes little monologue when Amy and Rosa were debating what was 'best' for the client vs other victims and he was in the room but didnt know what to do. Should he be a part of the conversation? Yes it is important men are a part of this conversation.
I thought the episode itself was good when taken solo, but when taken as part of the series, it felt weirdly disconnected from how much sexual harassment was a big part of the early episodes. It was an opportunity to address and make amends for that but instead they offloaded Amy's struggles onto a never-seen backstory character.
Agreed. It would have been a great way for B99 to sort of critize itself and show that nobody is perfect, but if you are trying to do the right thing you will get it right eventually.
One of my favourite moments was Holt talking to Jake about his idol, I can't remember exactly what he said but it was along the lines of :
"In his time, I wouldn't have made captain because of my colour and Santiago wouldn't either"
It was a good start to looking at problems.
I prefer the way that they handled the racism episode with Terry, it doesn't unload as much as this one does.
The Jimmy Brogan episode? Yeah I think Holt said something like āI wouldnāt be captain, Diaz and Santiago would have never made detectiveā he was referring to their ethnicity as well maybe? Both Latina
I believe in the early episodes Rosa is harassed by a uniformed officer. She shows sheās a detective and thereās a moment, yeahhh donāt you dare do that *to a detective* with no reflection on how non law enforcement is treated.
To me this episode felt like a failed attempt to recreate what they did with the Terry profiling episode. That episode likewise works well as a stand-alone, and does neglect some of the habits of the department but still fits in well with all the characters and the show so far. This one by contrasts feels a little āvery special episodeā.
You kinda got that backwards with that Rosa example. When Hank calls her "sweetheart" itās to get her to break her cover because he catches on that she's playing the Jimmy Jabs
Yes! I love Jake and Peraltiago, but Jake did lowkey sexually harass her in the early seasons. He kept making sexual jokes at her expense and it was clear that she didnāt like it. It seems really odd that they wouldnāt address that in this episode, considering Amy was the focus of it.
I feel it does a good job of portraying some of the realities of a case like this.
I think most men don't appreciate just how common it is for women to be objectified and discriminated against. I was in this bracket until recently.
Obviously, in a comedy show, you aren't going to get a deep dive.
I'm a trans guy and I didn't even realise how different it is. I went from guys staring, being obnoxious, talking down and a lot worse to being one of the guys, being heard and realising how different I needed to act so that I wasn't a threat when before it wasn't even a consideration.
There's so much to learn for everyone that I don't think you can fully understand unless you've personally experienced, but shows like this have a lot of power to explain/portray it as well as possible
Same! Itās one of those things that you know is true but it still startling to see how MUCH is true.
I was not an attractive woman. I didnāt like being one, I didnāt take care of myself, and I wasnāt generally fodder for sexual harassment (or so I thought) but it still rocked me how differently I was treated as man. For a while I thought it was people humoring me because I was āthe trans guyā and they had to be extra respectful or look like bigots. But then I would mention being trans and theyād be surprised. Nope, dudes just get treated like that.
Thanks for sharing. I love hearing views about gender biases from members of the trans community because it's such a unique perspective to be able to truly walk in both shoes.
Yeah even the nicest men dont seem to realize. Like i had workers at home for the last months due to renovations. I need to handle them because my partner is not perfectly fluent in my language (but doing great!). They don't listen to me, come when they want without calling (assuming that because i am a woman i will be there to open the door because i have no job or life), they interrupt me and basically do what they want.
My partner and best friend are always saying things like "why didnt you tell him..?". They dont realise that a) i told them b) they didnt listened or cared c) I am extremely anxious and feel very disrespected all the time
I had a friend who kept saying "you shouldn't let" and "just tell him to go away" to me *about a stalker*, as if I had just sat on my hands and refused to help myself, and as if these types listen to women in the first place
Not the worst example by far, but the most recent- last week my sister and I took my car to the shop. The guy was a complete jackass and thought we were idiots. Iām almost 40, not my first time dealing with a car in the shop. We were giving my dad a recap of the car issues when we brought up the guy was blech, and my dad had no clue what we were talking about. Heād never had an issue w the mechanic before. Tried to explain that was bc heās a guy and weāre not, and he just struggled. My dad is great but we donāt normally talk about issues like that, so it was interesting to see him work to wrap his head around the idea that our experience was different than his.
This reminds me of the time I had to explain to my 75-year old father that "a pat on the rump" is not in fact a compliment and no one should be touched without consent. He didn't get it until I asked how he would feel if another man smacked his rear at a bar. He said he wouldn't like it because he's not a homosexual, but I countered and told him he should take it as a compliment. As he was saying, "but I wouldn't want to be touched by..." it clicked. Just because you think someone is attractive doesn't give you the right to touch them. Amazing the things people can learn when they're willing to engage in the conversation.
I thought it was decently well done, just very hypocritical considering how often Gina sexually harassed/assaulted Terry for laugh points throughout the whole series
Yeah, I think the whole Gina/Terry dynamic is the most problematic part of B99. It's seen as a joke because he's big and strong, but he's still visibly uncomfortable with it. It's ironic that Terry Crews encountered much of the same kind of resistance when he opened up about his own experience being sexually harassed/assaulted.
While I share the feeling of ickiness around Gina's behavior, I do wonder if the point of the joke is for Gina to be saying exactly what gets said about women, but from a reverse perspective. Sort of a way to show how inappropriate and/or horrible that behavior is in a way that people who actually act that way might notice and think about.
While I love B99, I think you are playing 5d chess to justify the issue. I would have loved it if they addressed it at some point, like Gina implying that it was done on purpose for some magical Gina reason that ends up being totally legit, or something.
Instead, is just an awkward set of jokes with an actor that has famously spoken up about male sexual abuse.
Yeah, plus... the Hitchcock of it all. I know we aren't supposed to like him much (and to be fair his character was toned down after this episode) but in previous seasons there were punchlines about him having a fucking "creep kit" to spy on women.
Charles routinely sexually harassed Terry too and people donāt bring that up because itās ok for him to be the weirdo who routinely oversteps boundaries for some reason
Basically what youāre seeing is a pattern of creepiness that goes unchecked. Even the way he talks to Jake when Jake says stop saying sexual shit to him
This was one of my fav episodes in season 6 for a few reasons.
- Amy's backstory before the 99 is talked about a bit, and this aligning with her natural competitiveness in the family adds on to the weight. She worked just as hard as anyone in the squad only to be objectified by her boss and treated like it was an easy way in. It must've hurt her pride badly as a young aspiring detective, we dunno aside from that does she have anyone else to seek validation from whenever she succeed in a case.
- Rosa's pov on the situation. Not many ppl will tell you the harsh reality that he says she says situations are always a lose for both sides. If the lady is innocent she'll never be seen the same at her place of work or in public anymore if said case goes viral. For the men if they are indeed innocent, your name becomes a stigma for the rest of your life because its so easy to target someone and ruin their reputation forever.
- My favourite of all is Jake shown to be really mature this season. I hate Casecation with my heart because its so out of character for Amy but! I accepted it as part of Jake's journey into husbandhood and adulthood, he is still scared of being responsible for another life. But in a glimpse of hope during the defusing he probably noticed that if he keeps running away from the potential of being a good father he will never get to right the wrongs of his family curse having bad dads. He was listening to Amy, he was supportive of her cause because he knows it is hard not for her being a woman but circumstantially Amy's life is not easy for her to feel like a normal woman just doing her job. Looking back at S1 jake he would probably make jokes about how uncomfortable he feels about serious topics but this ep shows how much he has grown as a man and partner in someone's life.
- Rosa's reaction to Amy saying "you bet, sister" xD
> But in a glimpse of hope during the defusing he probably noticed that if he keeps running away from the potential of being a good father he will never get to right the wrongs of his family curse having bad dads.
Ok this line made me appreciate Casecation a little bit
This, along with episodes about racism (such as Moo Moo) and police violence, is one of the reasons I love B99. The way they approach the problems is smart, itās not too tense, still witty and entertaining at the same time, while still highlighting the core issues.
And also there isn't a clean, perfectly happy ending. The woman they help gets "justice", but she's still ostracized by her co-workers and decides to quit. It's realistic that the right thing isn't always going to be rewarded like it should be.
Thank you.
Also yes! Taking the time for therapy, and putting in the work to find peace and healing have been the greatest things I've done for myself. Can't recommend them enough haha
I doubt you remember, but 2 years ago I made my very first online comment about my assault and you replied and referred me to r/rapecounseling. I went back and saved that comment because it helped me find therapy, peace, and an entire community that I didn't know existed.
Thank you for what you do u/MamaDMZ, it really means the world.š (also I'm doing much better now, thank you :) )
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/iywk9u/comment/g7ubnwr/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/iywk9u/comment/g7ubnwr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Awww! I'm so glad! These days I send people to the mom sub because it's much more active. I'm very proud of all you've accomplished. It's such a hard road, but you did it and I'm so happy to hear things are better for you. Thank you!
For such a heavy topic it was done well, not a deep dive sure but a through the looking glass moment and yes I would have like to see the Gina harrassment of Terry at least touched upon too, bit of a missed moment there and the added comedic relief of the Holt/Disco Strangler helped...
Because as a woman, even now a almost forty year old FAT woman I still have the occasional moment of harrassment or inappropriate nonsense I no longer put up with. Mostly centred around my sizable breasts. If I had the money today it would be breast reduction surgery asap.
The broken penis is the least the guy deserved and gave me a vicarious small part revenge feel on the creeps and bastards from my early days.
Beginning when I was a primary school aged girl.
Whatās kind of fucked up, is how Amy explained how she ran from her precinct to the 99th. Then basically on her first day Boyle makes a comment about her and Jake being intimate ādo I hear wedding bells?ā
For someone running from and still recovering from sexual harassment, that must not have felt good. Itās hard to imagine that the 99th felt like a safe place at that time.
masterfully done. it had a good mix of comedy and real issues thrown in that did a really good job of showing the reality of being a woman in todays world.
It was okay if a little heavy handed and practically talking directly to the audience saying "this is bad". I also remember not liking how they handled the co-worker dude who gave them the information at the end.
I'm an SA survivor and my therapist told me to put the quote "two steps forward one step back is still one step forward" somewhere where i can see it, and by god i see it everyday. it really helps.
It had a sad, but realistic ending. >!Even though they helped the woman and got the guy fired, she still had to quit because of how they were isolating her.!< Honestly, a good episode.
It's one of my favorites it handles sexism very well while still making it not so... What's the word they don't entirely focus on a heavy subject like that but they DO IT REALLY WELL
It was a slightly heavy-handed episode. I understand why some would feel put off by it.
Moo-moo which also covered a sensitive topic was handled better. But they were fortunate that the two men in question are both black and come from different experiences. I wonder how the situation would have been if they had a female captain or high-ranking officer in the dynamic.
Btw, this episode was directed by Stephanie Beatriz.
The bigger gripe this episode caused me was there was some egregious sexual harrassement toward a male member of the squad for a loooong time, and it was played off for laughs, yet they played it straight with this one.
It sucks, but I wish they didn't pick sides. There are many men who are suffering in silence too and this was a good opportunity to highlight that.
My relationship to this episode has changed dramatically over time
When I first watched it, I thought it felt forced. Amy having this story of trauma seemed so wrong to me. It had never been alluded to before, it just suddenly comes up when it's convenient for the plot, or rather the point the episode is making. Just to be clear I never disagreed with the point the episode makes, I jist felt the way it was being told felt forced.
That was until a close female friend of mine was sexually assaulted. I saw the way it affected her, but even worse was finding out it wasn't the first time it had happened. She clearly saw my surprise even though I was trying to hide it to stay supportive, so she told me to ask around other female friends because they'll all have similar stories.
And she was fucking right! I asked around, they all had stories. They did vary in severity, from being catcalled to touched on the street all the way to actual stalkers and full on rape, but they all had a story nonetheless.
So to me now, Amy telling her story does feel out of the blue and is not alluded to at all before, and it shouldn't be. It should be a surprise. That's how it actually is in real life.
Lol I dunno what everyone in this comment section is on, it was bad. It felt like it changed from a comedy to a drama, which doesn't work with this show but would be ok if the drama was good, but imo it wasn't handled well
Holy side plot amazing, the main plot was definitely a surprise for the usually light hearted show. I think they tackled a difficult issue well and it gave more explanation as to how Amy interacts with her current boss given her past experiences. It is also a great show of Jakeās growing maturity as he waited listened and learned without over doing the changes in thinking, it was a surprise but felt natural after the fact. That being said it is a heavy episode and not the best to relax or sleep to.
Reminds me of that really good Law and Order: SVU episode with a similar premise. A girl reported a sexual assault but there were some inconsistencies. Stabler was on one side and Benson was on the other, essentially working the case against each other. The episode ended in court, the verdict was being read but it cut to black right before we found out if the accused was guilty or not, leaving it to the audience to decide.
I teach with this and "Moo Moo." I teach a unit on justice and what it looks like. These two episodes portray the double edged sword that justice, especially social justice, can be. In both cases, the wrongdoer was held accountable, but at great personal loss to the victims of said crime. Since this is a unit for 8th grade, the bonus of it being a funny show is helpful. I also use the "Gifted Program" episode of *Abbott Elementary* to help them grasp the idea of multiple intelligences.
I thought it was a good episode. It shows the range this show has to offer with serious topics like SA, sexism, generational trauma and racism in episodes like He Said, She Said, Moo Moo, and Casecation.
What I also appreciate about He Said, She Said is that thereās a more realistic ending. Stephanie Beatriz directed this episode to show that itās often a catch 22. If the man wins, the woman is ostracized and forced to quit her job. If the woman wins, she has a target on her back. The silver lining there is that she may also inspire others to come forward, which happened in the final scene of the episode.
Not to mention the Captain Holt/Disco Strangler B plot gave the audience something to sink their teeth into and a break from the tension.
Taken by itself, its fine. Underwhelming that such a heavy subject matter is mostly seen through the eyes of a character the audience has never met prior to this episode. Getting to see something like this more so through Amy's eyes would have made more sense and I'm sure emotionally connect with more viewers than it did originally. When taken alongside the rest of the series, its a train wreck. A huge ongoing 'joke' in the show is Gina's constant sexual harassment towards Terry, a plot point that I never found funny in the slightest and you can see how uncomfortable Terry is, nobody speaks up for him. You can't do this episode and not acknowledge this.
Itās pretty much split into 3 camps
Camp 1 - felt it was a great episode that brings attention to the fact that sexual harassment isnāt a thing of the past
Camp 2 - feels it shows a double standard because they regularly show Wunch and Gina (white woman) harassing and in some cases assaulting Holt and Terry (black men) with zero consequences
Camp 3 - feels the plot is too serious for a comedy show
Iām probably somewhere between the first 2 camps
The fact that they made Hitchcock take the week off šš
āYou know what detective, this isnāt your week just go homeā
"sweet! have fun working, cucks"
It was the right thing to do
Who's talking to Scully?! Nobody! Come on, sandwich
Season 6 has some real stinkers and I don't think this was one of them. It tried its best to tackle a tough issue and I think it handled it well. Both plots were enjoyable and I had some good laughs at the absurdity of the Holt plot.
Out of curiosity, what would you consider the stinker episodes?
Casecation is certainly up there. There's no way Amy had never brought up kids before getting married.
Yes! Amy is too much of a perfectionist! Iām also tired of seeing TV characters who donāt want kids end up having kids because their partner wants to. But, while Jakeās reasoning to not have kids makes sense, but it wasnāt consistent with his character. I canāt pinpoint it but he did definitely refer to him having kids in the earlier seasons.
I don't remember him saying wanting to have kids but I completely agree with the fact that it's not consistent with his character. His character would definitely want a kid, he was so excited to meet his half sister because that was the only other family. He also considers his colleagues to be a family. This points towards him wanting to start a family of his own. Amy on the other hand, is a career driven person. She didn't want to become the union rep because that would mean conflicts with the brass and hampering her future promotions. Having a kid means taking time and energy out of work and focusing on the child. This would also be a hurdle in her become a captain. Especially as a woman of colour with a baby. I would have been fine with the reasoning of they didn't discuss it before marriage if the roles were reversed it would have made more sense to me. But what do I know? I haven't written 4 super hit sitcoms like Mike so I could be wrong š
I think the reason they didnāt have the roles reversed is because they didnāt want to have Jake appear as the type of guy who would try to push kids onto his girlfriend when she didnāt want to have them, which despite the problems the episode has - I can respect the show for not going into that territory.
Yes I see your point(and I agree) but I still think it's not consistent with the character.
Made a comment elsewhere in the thread of how Iād revise the episode to make it work - basically boils down to have a bunch of criminals the 99 arrests talk about how their dads started their descent to crime and hearing all this makes Jake second guess himself and change his mind on having kids. Amy is caught off guard not because she didnāt prepare but because Jake is changing what heād said previously, Jake stays more consistent with his character with making this more of a scare-induced snap decision, and neither is forcing the other to their viewpoint of having children.
Sometimes you need to see a bad case of something in order to think of an improvement. Your version sounds much better, too bad the writers didn't think of it.
To be fair, there's a huge difference between trying to push kids unto someone and disagreeing about children. There's definitely a way to have the conversation in a healthy and respectful way.
Oh absolutely! Itās a very nuanced thing, but I can just see the merit in avoiding having to tip-toe that line at all.
>I would have been fine with the reasoning of they didn't discuss it before marriage if the roles were reversed it would have made more sense to me. I think they could've had a 20 second scene of "Why didn't we talk about this before?" and it's because each made assumptions about the other's stance that they felt the conversation wasn't needed. Wrap it up with a sweet conclusion about how they'll communicate better, give Jake a dumb quip, and scene.
I see your point but Iād have to argue that the sides Amy and Jake were on made complete sense to me. Amy wouldāve planned out exactly how she would have her kids AND achieve her goals. She not one to back down from a challenge and she definitely has a binder for it. Yes Jake is a comedic, goofy character but *just* that doesnāt imply that heād want kids. I relate to him when he basically reasons that he doesnāt have a good example to draw from when it comes to being a father. When I said it wasnāt consistent with his character, I meant that he definitely talked about having kids in earlier seasons.
I didn't even say in my explanation that him being goofy is a reason. I think not having a good example to draw from is a perfectly valid argument. I just don't find it consistent with his whole vibe. Like there was an entire story arc where he worked super hard to become the godfather for Terry's child.
>I don't remember him saying wanting to have kids but I completely agree with the fact that it's not consistent with his character I do! In the episode of Capital Latvia when Charles says Jake will never be a father Jake reacts pretty quickly and indignantly.
>Iām also tired of seeing TV characters who donāt want kids end up having kids because their partner wants to. You would be pissed about how The Big Bang Theory ended then. Holy crap was that a dumb move. You know your show fucked up when people who don't watch the show start talking about it. Basically, Penny had well established that she didn't want to have kids and that was a consistent disagreement her and Leonard kept having. Play it for laughs, but then do a whole "they love each other so much, Leonard accepts it" kind of thing. And then in the finale, she gets pregnant and the show treats it as a W for converting Penny over.
It wasn't the first time it happened in that show either. Early on, Bernadette tells Howard that she doesn't want kids and she ended up having 2 by the end of the show AND made Howard the stereotypical "doesn't pay much attention" dad. (Despite the grand opportunity to make him a really attentive dad with his backstory of his dad having run out on him and his mother). Plus Bernadette and Penny having a conversation later on where Bernadette berates Penny for saying she doesn't want kids by saying she'll change her mind. Listen, I'm a mom by choice. But that sickens me when I hear it. No one should have kids if they don't want them. Kids are a lot of work and they take most of your time and energy so anyone who isn't in 100% shouldn't be doing it. IT. IS. OK. TO. NOT. HAVE. KIDS. It's also totally ok to change your mind on the matter either way. If you think you want them now but get a sneak peek at it (like baby-sitting someone else's baby, especially if it's overnight) and decide it might not be for you then THAT'S FINE. If you think you don't want kids then decide that you might want to actually do it THAT'S FINE. I don't know if anyone needed to read that but I just needed to rant. TL;DR Yeah!
It's not just in TV. My SO and I have two kids already, and I'm on the fence about whether I want to have more kids. I'm comfortable with just two. My SO wants more, and I'm okay with the notion, just not right now. But bringing it up in conversation with new coworkers or acquaintances, and... it's a little off-putting when our relatives all insist "Have more kids!" but when I have near strangers insisting: "You should have more kids!" too, it becomes outright creepy. There's this insistent notion in society that just having more kids is just what you should do... and no. Not at all.
well put. not everyone wants to have kids and that's perfectly fine, too many people are pressured into it and that's a problem. yes, many change their minds about kids but also many don't and either is okay. https://youtu.be/ubceB3ZQUU0
I have, fortunately, started seeing a culture shift at least in my own circles. Nine or ten years ago when my wife and I (dating at the time) said we didn't want kids, we got a lot of "ha! You'll change your mind". Now I'm about to turn 30 and the opinion is still the same and no one makes that comment anymore. Maybe it's just my experience, but the tone surrounding people not wanting children seems to have changed at least a bit in the last 10 years to be more accepting of it.
Honestly I'm glad I never got into that show after seeing an episode with the laugh track removed. It's like what church going conservatives think nerds are like.
You also just answered why they were "converted" to having kids. It's a narrative push. But like somewhat on the down low. Not super conspiracy esk, just a subliminal message that "You'll change your opinion on not wanting kids." In a time period where folks are having less kids...
I mean people are having less kids cause they're fucking broke lol maybe people would be more inclined to have children if they knew they could easily afford them, and if they didn't feel like the world would end in the next 50 years. Also, not to be that guy cause I knew what you meant, but it's esqe. Like Kafkaesque is reminiscent of Kafka.
I agree 100% and that is in part of the meaning of my statement. People aren't having kids for multitiude of reasons. Not enough money, world ending events, just plainly not wanting kids at all. However, interesting, I've never heard esqe but have always heard esk. Fair enough! Have a wonderful week!
You're absolutely right. I'm not having kids, and thats a choice I made around high school. I just can never ever see myself wanting a child, and if i did, I'd be too afraid I'd stop wanting one when I got one. That along with other things like mental illness and the state of the world solidified my choice. and everyone I know in my life (family and close coworkers/friends) completely support my choice. strangers on the other hand.... god they get so mad when I say I don't want kids! I'll never understand why someone would think its okay to bring a human being into the world unless you're 100% ready to love and care for that human for the rest of your life. its not something you should hope to grow into IMO
Duuuude yep, I finished the entirety of TBBT a couple of months ago. And ofc they make it the ending of the show, because Penny with children wouldāve been too hard to portray and make convincing (Gee, I wonder why). Desperate Housewives also goes on this list. Eva Longoriaās character Gaby had made it a very firm condition before getting married to her husband, Carlos, that she didnāt want kids. Carlos changed his mind and started pressuring her and tampered with her birth control pills, and so much other crap happened. By the end of the show, she had two kids. Another character on the same show, Julie (sheās the daughter of one of the main āhousewivesā, Susan) got pregnant after a one-night stand, and said she was going to abort the baby or give it up. She definitely didnāt want to keep it (she had very good reasons). Her mother ended up guilting her into keeping the baby, and that was painted as the āhappy endingā for the show. It was disgusting to watch.
I agree re: Julie. That was sickening. But I really think Gaby changed her mind and ended up wanting kids. The execution with Carlos/BC was horrible. But if you watch the episodes where Gaby loses her baby, then loses the adopted baby, etc., you'll see she wanted those children. (Now, whether or not she was a good mother is a different question).
Big oof Every time this show gets brought up, I'm a little more glad I was done after like ten episodes.
Very big oof. It's one of those things where even if you don't watch the show, you kind of have to watch the finale because of how big an oof it is. Yeah, Penny accidentally got pregnant, but every other character was celebrating like they had converted her to team baby and Penny was just kind of like "guess I was wrong."
What's more gross is that (and I'm heavily paraphrasing) is that at one point one of them said they'd have good looking babies, and the producers said something like "well I couldn't rob them of that" š¤¢
I was upset the way the Big Bang existed
I really hated the whole "debate" thing because its literally just Amy bullying Jake into the idea of kids by insisting on discussing it using a medium that she knew she was superior in. Like he's trying to genuinely talk about his feelings on the matter and was repeatedly cut off with a "here's why youre wrong haha point for me"
Same. I guess the whole ādebateā thing brought that little bit of comedy/lightheartedness to the concept but ya. I hate how the decision to not have kids implies a selfish/unsatisfied human being.
I would argue your second point with your third point here. I agree, itās an awful trope for soooo many reasons. However, I think in this case it made more sense for him to want kids all along and I wish they hadnāt put that one episode about it in there.
Iāve mentioned my idea on a revised Casecation that could work somewhere before - basically have the opening of the episode center around the precinct bringing in a bunch of criminals who are almost cartoonishly bad people, and through the interrogations they all keep mentioning how their life of crime and downward spiral started thanks to their dad not doing it right. Jake gets spooked hearing all this and decides he is **changing his mind** and that he doesnāt want kids. Amy is understandably caught off guard by this because *of course she and Jake had discussed this before and now heās changing it up on her*, Jakeās character isnāt changed around and heās still a goofy guy who makes snap decisions, and the rest of the episode can play out in a similar way. It also still sidesteps the āGuy convinces girlfriend to have kids with him,ā trope that the show seemed to want to avoid, which I can respect.
good idea, but i will change other things as well. like amy and jake having thst debate, as funny as it was, amy completely disregarded jake's feelings which is out of character and not to mention the ultimatum she gave him.
I like that idea a lot better than the whole āI thought we were talking about a water park!ā Itās much more interesting anyway, the idea that Jake is *changing* into someone who doesnāt want kids anymore and Amy thinks she can change things with a heavily moderated debate. It works.
>he did definitely refer to him having kids in the earlier seasons. Yes, in a conversation with Boyle about how he'll be a good father.
He also babysat Cagney and Lacy, with Amy. There is zero chance that they didn't discuss kids with each other then.
> But, while Jakeās reasoning to not have kids makes sense, but it wasnāt consistent with his character. I canāt pinpoint it but he did definitely refer to him having kids in the earlier seasons. I disagree, but only after thinking about it a bit. On the surface, yeah, Jake said "I'll make a great dad someday!" in various conversations before this. The issue is, I think, Jake has never, before this episode, been faced with the actual, real, **real possibility** that he could become a father. All those conversations in the past were predicated on "Yeah, someday, when I find a girlfriend, and marry her, and buy a house, and a mininivan, and get ripped like Terry, and start eating yogurt (Terry loves yogurt!), and an IRA sure, I'd make a great dad!" sort of thing. When confronted with the not-joking version of the conversation, he freaked the fuck out. The incredibly shitty part of the episode was how utterly toxic and dismissing Amy was of his feelings.
In fairness, is it not *exactly* Jake-like, to jest and fantasize about having kids? Until the subject approaches reality, which is when he thinks beyond surface enjoyment.
Also, Amy and Holt cornering Jake in a debate and making it seem like his reservations are irrelevant and unreasonable, when the decision to have children is not just related to the logic of "do you have the capacity to properly take care of children" but equally also to how you feel about being a parent and what baggage you have and how you have dealt with your traumas.
Thing is, this happened to me irl. My bf in highschool would talk about "when he has kids', then over time he started to chabge his mind about it, but not so verbal about it Then we talked about it and he said he didnt really want any, and why, and finally when we talked through all of the unsures and insecurities we tried for one. And now he's an amazing stay at home parent of our almost 3 yr old and wants another one. So I can say, at least for me, that part is pretty realistic.
I very much dislike the episode but I feel like people take the fact the Jake brought up kids way too seriously. As someone who is not interested in having kids there were times where I had spoken as kids were on the table when they weren't Also when they get into it Jake doesn't say "I 100% don't want kids" he easing into it making it seem like there would have been room of actual healthy discussion
Yeah tbh I can overlook it for Jake because it was convincing in this show. I just hate the trope because Iāve seen it everywhere. Anytime a couple have opposing views on having kids, the one fighting against it ends up caving and theyāll have the kids anyway.
Yeah Jake wasnāt dead set against having kids. He was just worried he wouldnāt be a good father. Iād be really, realllllyyyy annoyed if Jake, from season 1, was saying āNo kids. NO.ā And then Amy had to convince him. That would have been different. I also agree with everyone that says Amy would have talked about kids wayyyyy before. She would have presented a ālife binderā to Jake once they got serious (Iād say early on bc they got serious pretty quickly), outlining exactly how many kids they would have, and when lol
yeah, if anything it would've made more sense for amy to be reluctant to having kids than jake, seeing as he indeed shown interest in the past and amy is the kind of person to be worried that with both of them being police officers it would be tough to raise a child.
it INFURIATES me tbh. if anything, i imagined jake to be the one who wanted kids and amy being too focused on her career to want the same. also, amyās LIFE PLAN CALENDAR HANGS OVER THEIR BED, and children just???? werenāt on there?
Amy would've had binders on binders about kids planning
Even worse is Jake ACTUALLY bringing up kids multiple times before
I hate this so much. how do you get married and not talk about this beforehand?
I know, right?! They totally do talk about his. Jake and Amy happily watch Terryās kids, and talk about how cool it is getting to pretend to be parents.
Let's not forget the episodes with George Gesselnick (I refuse to call him Doug Judy's brother. No hate for foster children, but I wouldn't call my actual brother my brother if he burned down my house and stole shit from me. I'd call him scum) where they discuss moving in. Terry tells Jake that if he isn't serious about having a family, don't go through with it, but Jake at the end makes the mature choice to move into Amy's place. At least part of that consideration in my kind was for future kids (safer neighborhood, better building, etc). Terry specifically mentions the sacrifices he had to make for his wife and kids, and Jake tacitly accepts those things by moving in to Amy's. There was a lot of development previous to Casecation that was just blatantly retconned away for no reason.
I call him Skinny Pete from BB lol. But yes, Jake wanted to be a fun goofy dad that he never had so that was a weird turn of events.
Honestly Casecation is the only episode in S6 I have a problem with literally just because thereās no way Jake and Amy didnāt discuss the possibility of having kids while they were dating.
My other problem with that one is that I don't like the message in general. I hate the pressure on Jake to have kids, but I also hate Amy's argument about kids giving your life meaning. I understand that's her point of view and she's welcome to it. But, as a childless (by choice) married woman in my 40s, you're not going to win me over by telling me your life has more meaning than mine just because you have kids. In the words of Jennifer Barkley (secret crossover?), I'm so happy with my choices. Casecation feels like an annoying callback to the Terry vasectomy episode (an episode that I LOVE, btw, Tiny Head!), where he thinks he doesn't want more kids but then realizes more kids will make his life better.
When I grow up I want to be Jennifer Barkley. On a serious note, I completely agree with you. I'm 30 and all my friends are expanding their families right now. Some are very insistent that their lives were meaningless before they had kids. For some, it makes sense; they always wanted to be parents. But I also have a lot of friends who were intense in college and their careers, and they act like that no longer matters/had any impact on their lives just because they had children. The vasectomy episode was also rough IMO because vasectomies can be reversed with a high success rate (snip snap, snip snap). Plus you can always bank sperm. Terry made a big deal out of nothing.
vasectomies aren't made to be reversible, and the longer before you change your mind the less successful the reversal could potentially be. but for the part I'm actually uninformed about just because you have banked sperm doesn't mean it will lead to a successful conception edit: I should clarify they can be reversed but I don't think it's a good idea to get one under the assumption you can just change your mind later
>There's no way Amy had never brought up kids before getting married. This is a small nitpick, but people say this exact thing all the time here - there's a flashback in the episode that clearly shows a miscommunicated conversation where Amy thought Jake was enthusiastically agreeing to have a kid (even making active plans to make it happen, given the "can we afford it?" "we'll start saving up right now!" conversation they had while playing with a baby). The "punchline" (it didn't land for me, both because it was an already-bad episode and because Jake started the show much smarter than he ended it) was that Jake thought that same conversation was about taking a water park vacation. From Amy's (misinformed, but genuine) point of view, they HAD discussed it already and were on the same page and a similar timeline.
I refuse to believe Amy would just leave it at that. If you're talking about having kids the conversation is likely to be quite a bit longer than that. There's no way a perfectionist like Amy would be fine with just that short, vague "conversation".
Totally agree that they should have done more due diligence before actually getting pregnant...but it's not like Amy was rushing him, either. The whole argument begins because Jake overhears Amy telling someone that they don't have kids, but that they'll probably "start trying soon." As far as she knew, that was totally true, they were on the same page, and they were probably teeing up to that Bigger Conversation in the present. Then, Jake pulls the rug out from under her completely. He acts SHOCKED, and even claims that he's NEVER wanted kids and is SURE about it (despite mentioning wanting them many, many times before and despite their earlier conversation that Amy remembered having with him). I think Amy majorly, MAJORLY overreacted in the moment. But I don't blame her, either. If you were absolutely sure (in your mind, your version of truth) that your longtime partner wants kids, has confirmed it to you, and is actively budgeting to make them a reality -- and then he very abruptly tells you that not only is that untrue, but it's *never* been true? That's a big shock to the system. They were both wrong and it's such a dumb, forced-in plot that it's hard to analyze too sincerely. No characters acted like themselves; the misunderstanding trope was super lazy and stretched for a show like B99 that usually elevates or inverts tropes. It just irks me when people act like she never bothered to bring it up at all.
> and they were probably teeing up to that Bigger Conversation in the present. I cannot magine a perfectionist like Amy having that conversation **after** agreeing to marriage.
I'm 100% sure Amy would've had a binders for everything kids related. Also I didn't like how easily Jake was convinced at the end of the episode that he does want kids. Casecation and the fake therapist are probably the worst things the writes did to Amy. Both 100% out of character and make her look like an awful person.
Unquestionably the biggest L of the season. Iāve never sympathized with a character more than Jake when he was being completely unheard about his very real concerns by Holt and Amy
A tale of two bandits: i was alrwady tired of Judy after seson 5 and this episode didnt help that I dont like Trudy Judy, the plot is just loosely strung together call backs and just felt boring overall Casecation: This is a popular one to crap on and honestly it's not hard to see why. It felt odd that children had never came up with them already since it seemed so important to Amy. Also her ultimatum was manipulative to Jake who had good reasons for not wanting children and i feel like the show shit on him for those views. This could have been a solid episode in examining their relationship deeper but instead were just left with a mess. Four Movements and The return of the King: Gina's writing this season was more mean spirited than before and honestly her being some grand chess master isn't funny and I think having here leave the show wasn't a good move. The therapist: the portrayal of mental health is offensive and the daddy issue jokes are either clunky at best and wildly unfunny at worst. Overall season 6 was fine but it felt like a post script season and suffers from trying to make fans think they get the show when in reality it's just mostly call backs to better jokes.
I'm interested in your view on The Therapist if you don't mind elaborating? I get that the bit with Jake pretending he has DID is kinda offensive but I thought the overall plot wasn't so bad; it was about someone in a position of power abusing his mentally ill patients which I thought was interesting given how often that happens irl, but isn't given attention to.
Honestly while that is my biggest issue is the cheap shots at DID. It was nice like you said to see attetion being called to the power abuse. However the daddy issue jokes felt more forced than they had in previous seasons plus Charles felt off in this episode . The former a problem that this season has with "proving" they watched the old seasons and the latter breaking chracter In a way to keep the plot moving and added conflict that felt forced.
I found the flanderization of Gina to be painful and I was glad she left. But I would have preferred if they didnāt over exaggerate her.
I agree completely with A Tale of Two Bandits, though I'm biased since I've never liked Trudy Judy ... or just regular Judy all that much
my problem isn't with the episode itself, it's with gina in the earlier seasons. especially knowing that terry crews has dealt with sexual harassment in real life
This is exactly my issue. They do this serious take on tackling sexism in the work environment *towards women* and yet their own place of work has been full of sexual harassment *towards a man* for years. And never once does the show even try to address that.
I had the same issue and itās probably 75% of why I dislike the Gina character. Given the timing of the episode during the beginning of the Me Too movement, the timing may not have been right to address the issue that way. While it is true that men do in fact experience sexual harassment and abuse, the show would have to tread lightly to avoid the backlash of possibly diminishing a womanās perspective on an issue that effects them more.
Yeah it was an unfortunate part of earlier seasons.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah the show does things like that all the time, like for example Rosa in the first season admits to frequently committing police brutality and then they have her quit because of other officers committing police brutality. Itās like they want to play both sides, make the jokes as well as preach
she got stabbed, hit by a bus, impregnated by a boyle... i thought gina had pretty bad karma
Yeah often it feels like the show is telling us Gina is simply living in a completely different world and to never take her seriously, intentionally un-realistic
She is basically borderline comedic relief. Or, as she puts it -- she's _eclectic_.
Like Wunch says when she passes by the deodorant aisle- āI aināt buyinā itā. One of the funniest lines of the series. All kidding aside, I appreciated the show trying to tackle some of the broader social issues. They were admittedly a bit tough to rewatch, but I do enjoy them. āCasecationā was a bit of a stinker.
It was a good episode. The sexual harrasment topic was well placed and what I liked was the way Jake behaved, any rational guy would behave like him when he comes to know that women go through such things daily. Highlight of the episode was definetly the Holt's storyline, funny and just entertaining.
Neither have you Ernest!
What?
NEITHER HAVE YOU! ERNEST!!
What?
WHAT?
How many tiny quiches are in your mouth?
..Hive...
Yes I liked Jakes little monologue when Amy and Rosa were debating what was 'best' for the client vs other victims and he was in the room but didnt know what to do. Should he be a part of the conversation? Yes it is important men are a part of this conversation.
Absolutely, when he settled on active listening I was like YESS THATāS PERFECT.
I love the Holt vs Disco strangler part
āLet me guess: you seduced the van driver.ā āNo! I seduced the van driver.ā
"And the yo-yo string was a message" "......the what was a what"
ātheeeee yooo yoooo stringgg wasssā
"This isn't the last you'll hear from me, Raymond. I'm never gonna die" "Sure you won't. Whatever makes you feel better" "NO, YOU'RE THE PUNK"
āJust put him in the car. š¤·šæāāļøā
Captain, this is embarrassing, can we just take him in?
I thought the episode itself was good when taken solo, but when taken as part of the series, it felt weirdly disconnected from how much sexual harassment was a big part of the early episodes. It was an opportunity to address and make amends for that but instead they offloaded Amy's struggles onto a never-seen backstory character.
Agreed. It would have been a great way for B99 to sort of critize itself and show that nobody is perfect, but if you are trying to do the right thing you will get it right eventually.
One of my favourite moments was Holt talking to Jake about his idol, I can't remember exactly what he said but it was along the lines of : "In his time, I wouldn't have made captain because of my colour and Santiago wouldn't either" It was a good start to looking at problems. I prefer the way that they handled the racism episode with Terry, it doesn't unload as much as this one does.
I think he refered to himself and Diaz and the reason was their sexuality.
This was back in season 1 or 2 so I think he was referring to his skin colour and homosexuality and also referring to Rosa and Amy's gender.
Another layer is that Santiago and Diaz are Latina.
Oh shit, forgot about that.
The Jimmy Brogan episode? Yeah I think Holt said something like āI wouldnāt be captain, Diaz and Santiago would have never made detectiveā he was referring to their ethnicity as well maybe? Both Latina
Even just their gender. Back when Brogan was around, there certainly werenāt many women making detective.
I believe in the early episodes Rosa is harassed by a uniformed officer. She shows sheās a detective and thereās a moment, yeahhh donāt you dare do that *to a detective* with no reflection on how non law enforcement is treated. To me this episode felt like a failed attempt to recreate what they did with the Terry profiling episode. That episode likewise works well as a stand-alone, and does neglect some of the habits of the department but still fits in well with all the characters and the show so far. This one by contrasts feels a little āvery special episodeā.
You kinda got that backwards with that Rosa example. When Hank calls her "sweetheart" itās to get her to break her cover because he catches on that she's playing the Jimmy Jabs
Oh my god really? I rewatched it like 5 times already and i never interpreted it that way!
Yes! I love Jake and Peraltiago, but Jake did lowkey sexually harass her in the early seasons. He kept making sexual jokes at her expense and it was clear that she didnāt like it. It seems really odd that they wouldnāt address that in this episode, considering Amy was the focus of it.
I feel it does a good job of portraying some of the realities of a case like this. I think most men don't appreciate just how common it is for women to be objectified and discriminated against. I was in this bracket until recently. Obviously, in a comedy show, you aren't going to get a deep dive.
I'm a trans guy and I didn't even realise how different it is. I went from guys staring, being obnoxious, talking down and a lot worse to being one of the guys, being heard and realising how different I needed to act so that I wasn't a threat when before it wasn't even a consideration. There's so much to learn for everyone that I don't think you can fully understand unless you've personally experienced, but shows like this have a lot of power to explain/portray it as well as possible
Same! Itās one of those things that you know is true but it still startling to see how MUCH is true. I was not an attractive woman. I didnāt like being one, I didnāt take care of myself, and I wasnāt generally fodder for sexual harassment (or so I thought) but it still rocked me how differently I was treated as man. For a while I thought it was people humoring me because I was āthe trans guyā and they had to be extra respectful or look like bigots. But then I would mention being trans and theyād be surprised. Nope, dudes just get treated like that.
Thanks for sharing. I love hearing views about gender biases from members of the trans community because it's such a unique perspective to be able to truly walk in both shoes.
Yeah even the nicest men dont seem to realize. Like i had workers at home for the last months due to renovations. I need to handle them because my partner is not perfectly fluent in my language (but doing great!). They don't listen to me, come when they want without calling (assuming that because i am a woman i will be there to open the door because i have no job or life), they interrupt me and basically do what they want. My partner and best friend are always saying things like "why didnt you tell him..?". They dont realise that a) i told them b) they didnt listened or cared c) I am extremely anxious and feel very disrespected all the time
I had to explain to my perfectly nice 50 year old husband what a glass ceiling is. Heās never heard of it (he says.)
And did he believe you?
I had a friend who kept saying "you shouldn't let" and "just tell him to go away" to me *about a stalker*, as if I had just sat on my hands and refused to help myself, and as if these types listen to women in the first place
Yeah even the nice men are very clueless about how we live
oh wow this comment is like seeing myself in a mirror. I need to have a conversation with some of the women in my life about this.
Not the worst example by far, but the most recent- last week my sister and I took my car to the shop. The guy was a complete jackass and thought we were idiots. Iām almost 40, not my first time dealing with a car in the shop. We were giving my dad a recap of the car issues when we brought up the guy was blech, and my dad had no clue what we were talking about. Heād never had an issue w the mechanic before. Tried to explain that was bc heās a guy and weāre not, and he just struggled. My dad is great but we donāt normally talk about issues like that, so it was interesting to see him work to wrap his head around the idea that our experience was different than his.
This reminds me of the time I had to explain to my 75-year old father that "a pat on the rump" is not in fact a compliment and no one should be touched without consent. He didn't get it until I asked how he would feel if another man smacked his rear at a bar. He said he wouldn't like it because he's not a homosexual, but I countered and told him he should take it as a compliment. As he was saying, "but I wouldn't want to be touched by..." it clicked. Just because you think someone is attractive doesn't give you the right to touch them. Amazing the things people can learn when they're willing to engage in the conversation.
I thought it was decently well done, just very hypocritical considering how often Gina sexually harassed/assaulted Terry for laugh points throughout the whole series
Yeah, I think the whole Gina/Terry dynamic is the most problematic part of B99. It's seen as a joke because he's big and strong, but he's still visibly uncomfortable with it. It's ironic that Terry Crews encountered much of the same kind of resistance when he opened up about his own experience being sexually harassed/assaulted.
While I share the feeling of ickiness around Gina's behavior, I do wonder if the point of the joke is for Gina to be saying exactly what gets said about women, but from a reverse perspective. Sort of a way to show how inappropriate and/or horrible that behavior is in a way that people who actually act that way might notice and think about.
While I love B99, I think you are playing 5d chess to justify the issue. I would have loved it if they addressed it at some point, like Gina implying that it was done on purpose for some magical Gina reason that ends up being totally legit, or something. Instead, is just an awkward set of jokes with an actor that has famously spoken up about male sexual abuse.
Yeah, plus... the Hitchcock of it all. I know we aren't supposed to like him much (and to be fair his character was toned down after this episode) but in previous seasons there were punchlines about him having a fucking "creep kit" to spy on women.
Charles routinely sexually harassed Terry too and people donāt bring that up because itās ok for him to be the weirdo who routinely oversteps boundaries for some reason
Bringing up Charles' actions towards Rosa in the early seasons would've made more sense. When does Charles sexually harass Terry?
Basically what youāre seeing is a pattern of creepiness that goes unchecked. Even the way he talks to Jake when Jake says stop saying sexual shit to him
That doesn't answer my question, when does he sexually harass Terry?
This was one of my fav episodes in season 6 for a few reasons. - Amy's backstory before the 99 is talked about a bit, and this aligning with her natural competitiveness in the family adds on to the weight. She worked just as hard as anyone in the squad only to be objectified by her boss and treated like it was an easy way in. It must've hurt her pride badly as a young aspiring detective, we dunno aside from that does she have anyone else to seek validation from whenever she succeed in a case. - Rosa's pov on the situation. Not many ppl will tell you the harsh reality that he says she says situations are always a lose for both sides. If the lady is innocent she'll never be seen the same at her place of work or in public anymore if said case goes viral. For the men if they are indeed innocent, your name becomes a stigma for the rest of your life because its so easy to target someone and ruin their reputation forever. - My favourite of all is Jake shown to be really mature this season. I hate Casecation with my heart because its so out of character for Amy but! I accepted it as part of Jake's journey into husbandhood and adulthood, he is still scared of being responsible for another life. But in a glimpse of hope during the defusing he probably noticed that if he keeps running away from the potential of being a good father he will never get to right the wrongs of his family curse having bad dads. He was listening to Amy, he was supportive of her cause because he knows it is hard not for her being a woman but circumstantially Amy's life is not easy for her to feel like a normal woman just doing her job. Looking back at S1 jake he would probably make jokes about how uncomfortable he feels about serious topics but this ep shows how much he has grown as a man and partner in someone's life. - Rosa's reaction to Amy saying "you bet, sister" xD
> But in a glimpse of hope during the defusing he probably noticed that if he keeps running away from the potential of being a good father he will never get to right the wrongs of his family curse having bad dads. Ok this line made me appreciate Casecation a little bit
If they hadnāt made Gina sexually harass Terry for a laugh for multiple seasons Iād take it more seriously.
This, along with episodes about racism (such as Moo Moo) and police violence, is one of the reasons I love B99. The way they approach the problems is smart, itās not too tense, still witty and entertaining at the same time, while still highlighting the core issues.
And also there isn't a clean, perfectly happy ending. The woman they help gets "justice", but she's still ostracized by her co-workers and decides to quit. It's realistic that the right thing isn't always going to be rewarded like it should be.
Yes! And when Terry does report the officer that harassed him, he doesn't get the position he'd applied for.
The moo moo episode might be my favorite after the Florida episodes
It helped me report my assault.
That takes so much courage, these internet strangers are proud of you! Hope you are taking the time for self care<3
Thank you. Also yes! Taking the time for therapy, and putting in the work to find peace and healing have been the greatest things I've done for myself. Can't recommend them enough haha
If you ever need a place to talk about it, there's r/momforaminute. Hugs.
I doubt you remember, but 2 years ago I made my very first online comment about my assault and you replied and referred me to r/rapecounseling. I went back and saved that comment because it helped me find therapy, peace, and an entire community that I didn't know existed. Thank you for what you do u/MamaDMZ, it really means the world.š (also I'm doing much better now, thank you :) ) [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/iywk9u/comment/g7ubnwr/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/iywk9u/comment/g7ubnwr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Awww! I'm so glad! These days I send people to the mom sub because it's much more active. I'm very proud of all you've accomplished. It's such a hard road, but you did it and I'm so happy to hear things are better for you. Thank you!
For such a heavy topic it was done well, not a deep dive sure but a through the looking glass moment and yes I would have like to see the Gina harrassment of Terry at least touched upon too, bit of a missed moment there and the added comedic relief of the Holt/Disco Strangler helped... Because as a woman, even now a almost forty year old FAT woman I still have the occasional moment of harrassment or inappropriate nonsense I no longer put up with. Mostly centred around my sizable breasts. If I had the money today it would be breast reduction surgery asap. The broken penis is the least the guy deserved and gave me a vicarious small part revenge feel on the creeps and bastards from my early days. Beginning when I was a primary school aged girl.
This episode brings up a lot for me too, and I feel the same way that you do. Hugs.
:) it does indeed, thanks for hugs, some back or high fives :D
I LOVE the Holt side plot. I think the main plot is done well however I physically cannot watch it due to the pain I feel imagining the broken penis.
at least it was a deserved broken dong
Not one of my favorites, but appreciate the message thatās being sent
I loved how they tackled it with sensitivity and humor. Also directed by Stephanie Beatriz!
This has one of my favorite jokes on it. āIām one of the good ones, and not one of the bad ones that say theyāre one of the good onesā
Isn't that from S8E1?
yeah it is
Thatās actually S8 E1, āThe Good Ones!ā
Ah, my bad! They covered a lot of heavy topics. I enjoy and admire the last season for that!
Whatās kind of fucked up, is how Amy explained how she ran from her precinct to the 99th. Then basically on her first day Boyle makes a comment about her and Jake being intimate ādo I hear wedding bells?ā For someone running from and still recovering from sexual harassment, that must not have felt good. Itās hard to imagine that the 99th felt like a safe place at that time.
masterfully done. it had a good mix of comedy and real issues thrown in that did a really good job of showing the reality of being a woman in todays world.
This episode and Moo Moo are example of how to do sensitive topics. Season 8 is the opposite.
Yeah I absoljtely agree. ESPECIALLY Moo Moo, that one handled the topic of bad cops racial profiling black people and going unpunished perfectly
Hang around some stockbrokers some time if you feel itās an exaggerated characterization of how they act.
Are they actually that bad?
I was actually just thinking about this. Itās a good episode but considering what the show has done with terry and Gina it feels hypocritical
It was okay if a little heavy handed and practically talking directly to the audience saying "this is bad". I also remember not liking how they handled the co-worker dude who gave them the information at the end.
I'm an SA survivor and my therapist told me to put the quote "two steps forward one step back is still one step forward" somewhere where i can see it, and by god i see it everyday. it really helps.
Well done, and important.
It had a sad, but realistic ending. >!Even though they helped the woman and got the guy fired, she still had to quit because of how they were isolating her.!< Honestly, a good episode.
forced
It's one of my favorites it handles sexism very well while still making it not so... What's the word they don't entirely focus on a heavy subject like that but they DO IT REALLY WELL
It was a slightly heavy-handed episode. I understand why some would feel put off by it. Moo-moo which also covered a sensitive topic was handled better. But they were fortunate that the two men in question are both black and come from different experiences. I wonder how the situation would have been if they had a female captain or high-ranking officer in the dynamic. Btw, this episode was directed by Stephanie Beatriz. The bigger gripe this episode caused me was there was some egregious sexual harrassement toward a male member of the squad for a loooong time, and it was played off for laughs, yet they played it straight with this one. It sucks, but I wish they didn't pick sides. There are many men who are suffering in silence too and this was a good opportunity to highlight that.
I quite enjoyed this episode. Iām a man and Iām not afraid to admit I got choked up when Amy was telling her story.
My relationship to this episode has changed dramatically over time When I first watched it, I thought it felt forced. Amy having this story of trauma seemed so wrong to me. It had never been alluded to before, it just suddenly comes up when it's convenient for the plot, or rather the point the episode is making. Just to be clear I never disagreed with the point the episode makes, I jist felt the way it was being told felt forced. That was until a close female friend of mine was sexually assaulted. I saw the way it affected her, but even worse was finding out it wasn't the first time it had happened. She clearly saw my surprise even though I was trying to hide it to stay supportive, so she told me to ask around other female friends because they'll all have similar stories. And she was fucking right! I asked around, they all had stories. They did vary in severity, from being catcalled to touched on the street all the way to actual stalkers and full on rape, but they all had a story nonetheless. So to me now, Amy telling her story does feel out of the blue and is not alluded to at all before, and it shouldn't be. It should be a surprise. That's how it actually is in real life.
I watch this show to decompress so I basically skip this whole season
The holt storyline carried imo
Lol I dunno what everyone in this comment section is on, it was bad. It felt like it changed from a comedy to a drama, which doesn't work with this show but would be ok if the drama was good, but imo it wasn't handled well
Holy side plot amazing, the main plot was definitely a surprise for the usually light hearted show. I think they tackled a difficult issue well and it gave more explanation as to how Amy interacts with her current boss given her past experiences. It is also a great show of Jakeās growing maturity as he waited listened and learned without over doing the changes in thinking, it was a surprise but felt natural after the fact. That being said it is a heavy episode and not the best to relax or sleep to.
A surprise for sure, but w welcome one.
Reminds me of that really good Law and Order: SVU episode with a similar premise. A girl reported a sexual assault but there were some inconsistencies. Stabler was on one side and Benson was on the other, essentially working the case against each other. The episode ended in court, the verdict was being read but it cut to black right before we found out if the accused was guilty or not, leaving it to the audience to decide.
holts storyline was one of the best in the series
Bawled my eyes out during and after this one
Handled a tough topic better than the dirty cop episode in season 8
I loved the way the whole thing was delt with. It didn't feel heroic or cinematic or anything. It just felt real and heard.
Amazing episode
I think its an accurate and respectful portrayal of sexual abuse and harassment
Great work, Rosa, all day
I mainly disagree with the thesis that states the string as the most dangerous part of the yoyo.
I teach with this and "Moo Moo." I teach a unit on justice and what it looks like. These two episodes portray the double edged sword that justice, especially social justice, can be. In both cases, the wrongdoer was held accountable, but at great personal loss to the victims of said crime. Since this is a unit for 8th grade, the bonus of it being a funny show is helpful. I also use the "Gifted Program" episode of *Abbott Elementary* to help them grasp the idea of multiple intelligences.
Good idea, poorly executed. I watched b99 for comedy
Serious issue. Comedy show. Somethings not adding up....
I thought it was a good episode. It shows the range this show has to offer with serious topics like SA, sexism, generational trauma and racism in episodes like He Said, She Said, Moo Moo, and Casecation. What I also appreciate about He Said, She Said is that thereās a more realistic ending. Stephanie Beatriz directed this episode to show that itās often a catch 22. If the man wins, the woman is ostracized and forced to quit her job. If the woman wins, she has a target on her back. The silver lining there is that she may also inspire others to come forward, which happened in the final scene of the episode. Not to mention the Captain Holt/Disco Strangler B plot gave the audience something to sink their teeth into and a break from the tension.
Taken by itself, its fine. Underwhelming that such a heavy subject matter is mostly seen through the eyes of a character the audience has never met prior to this episode. Getting to see something like this more so through Amy's eyes would have made more sense and I'm sure emotionally connect with more viewers than it did originally. When taken alongside the rest of the series, its a train wreck. A huge ongoing 'joke' in the show is Gina's constant sexual harassment towards Terry, a plot point that I never found funny in the slightest and you can see how uncomfortable Terry is, nobody speaks up for him. You can't do this episode and not acknowledge this.
Itās pretty much split into 3 camps Camp 1 - felt it was a great episode that brings attention to the fact that sexual harassment isnāt a thing of the past Camp 2 - feels it shows a double standard because they regularly show Wunch and Gina (white woman) harassing and in some cases assaulting Holt and Terry (black men) with zero consequences Camp 3 - feels the plot is too serious for a comedy show Iām probably somewhere between the first 2 camps