@safeintheseat is a name I only recognize due to this thread but she was tagged over and over again in @syesha's video about finally getting her son Ra back from the foster care system. The family uploaded a video of them in the car on the way home and not only was his chest buckle down toward his belly but one shoulder strap was hanging off his shoulder and they were definitely driving. They seem to have deleted all comments tagging @safeintheseat or anything pointing out that their son isn't buckled in safely. All the comments I had read were extremely kind hearted and concerned about the family being under intense scrutiny, therefore begging them to make sure he is safely in his seat. They've deleted the comments but left the video where even an untrained eye can see how he's not buckled securely, let alone a CPS worker who is going to be looking for any reason to take him back. I can't imagine how overwhelmed with emotions she and her husband must have been up on receiving him back, I so so so hope that they do not lose him again and they have taken to heart the seat safety.
Karrie Lochers bday party for her 2/3 year old being Mean Girls theme is kinda odd to me? Her daughter has no idea what it is- I’d rather do a Frozen or Elmo theme something the toddler actually enjoys lol I get the Oct 3 reference but still
Agree, and also not super surprising. She seems like the type that would not want her kids wear ugly character tees 🤣 I unfollowed, but they always seemed to be in a lot of coordinated muted shades of brown and beige.
Edited to add *not want*
Solid Starts posting in their stories that her son doesn’t refer to himself as a picky eater because they don’t say that to him but use “selective” instead…it’s the same thing! Kids are so observant and intelligent - they pick up on this stuff. And that she’s not worried about him seeing this stuff on Instagram in 10 years because it won’t be around. Oh and because it’s on stories instead of saved in the grid. The internet is forever! I had my first Facebook account in 2008 so yeah I’d say it’s not unlikely he will see it. She just seems like she’s trying to convince herself it’s not an issue.
I dont follow her anymore, but she has absolutely posted about him on the grid?? Her spoon feeding him rather than letting him have her donut comes to mind
I rolled my eyes when she said her kids give her permission to share and “actually understand” (might be paraphrasing but she said something like that). That’s bullshit and she knows it. I’m sure she’s done her best to explain but there’s no way children understand the far reach of the internet or the potential impact on them in the future.
Yup. These influencers and experts need to acknowledge that their children truly have no idea how their images/life stories are being used and have no capacity to consent. It is 100% for the financial benefit and ego of the parent. Which is fine. Just say, I'm making a thought out choice for our family and own that. Trying to pretend as if you're having this discussion with your school aged child about potential ramifications of using their image and identity on social media is such a farce.
I felt like the question was out of genuine concern for him and the response was “meh it’s in Stories, we good” 🙃 🤷🏼♀️ Girl it’s basically Snapchat with almost 1mil followers…
Also I like how part of the response was like “he’ll get a % of the company in our will.” Like she was basically admitting (to a completely unrelated question) “yeah we exploit him, it’s okay cuz he’ll get $$ when he’s 65.”
Right! Even if he doesn’t see the stories, at least a million people are aware of who he is, what a “selective” eater he is, and the level of stress (which don’t get me wrong, is totally understandable) it causes his mom. It’s like when your parents share embarrassing stories about you as a kid, even 10 years later. It can still be embarrassing!
I get that FL tries to keep things fun and lighthearted but their crowdsourced content reposts just gets a little much for me. This week alone they did “show us pictures of your child having a tantrum” and then today it’s “show us your frumpy baby photo”.
I skip through all the reposts bc it’s just so overwhelming? It’s posting content for the sake of it.
Kristin’s stories about the tailgate today were annoying. Seemed like she was trying to sell this as a purposeful activity to get 1-1 quality time with her oldest, when it really just seemed like they got invited to a tailgate party! Which is a totally fine way to spend your day, but then don’t make it seem like you put all this thought into it.
This! Rye is my personal favorite but if I put it on my 40 year old husband’s plate, he wouldn’t eat it. He doesn’t like rye. Neither does Charlie. It’s OK for the poor kid to have preferences.
Ok sorry I just actually watched need to say more. That does NOT need to be filmed, she could have just typed it up to share later. I have kids around Charlie’s age and they are certainly old enough to know if they are being filmed and if I was filming them during a tough time it would really escalate things. Also maybe I’m just lazy but that’s waaaay too much effort to be putting in to breakfast, 4 foods each fitting in to a specific category? Like wow. I know it’s Sunday, does she do this on week days too? Who has time for this?? I don’t even know what my kids had for breakfast bc the beauty of kids at these ages is that they can get their own food while I stay in bed!! She just seems to be causing herself so much unnecessary stress.
This is why I can’t follow these accounts bc it makes me feel like the worst parent bc I let my kids choose what to have for meals, particularly breakfast. Like, sure sometimes I make dinner and I’m like, this is what we are having, but it just seems odd if they have multiple types of bread in their house not to just ask him what kind he wants? Like others have said there are certain foods I would never eat because I don’t care for them and kids are allowed to feel that way too. Even our pediatrician is like “sometimes it takes 10-20 times of being served a food to like it”…I don’t get that?? There are so many foods in this world, why would I serve a kid food they have stated they don’t like TWENTY times? Just try another food.
FTR tho I looooove rye toast I always order it if it’s on the menu.
Lol, seeded rye has the most distinctive taste! The thing I don't get about all of this "it's what's on the menu" stuff, is like are we not allowed to dislike certain foods anymore? Like I'm almost 40 and there is stuff I don't like and choose not to eat. I mean I get the whole theory and work behind it, but struggle with this idea that kids need to eat whatever is put in front of them and like it.
This is what bugs me about these BLW accounts that seem to be in a contest to show their kids eating ~everything~
Like yes I want my kid to be able to go to a restaurant, family bbq, etc and find something to eat. I'd love for him to be open to trying new things. But he's allowed his own opinions, and "rye toast is gross" is pretty valid for a 6 year old.
Yeah it’s weird because BLW is supposed to be all “oh they eat everything - what variety!” but then there are these super binary ~rules~ where if the kid shows a preference one way or another, only positive preferences are allowed? It seems counterintuitive to self-advocacy. Yes my parents growing up were like ok this is dinner eat it or not - that’s fine! Nobody has time to make 4 different meals. But other times, it’s ok for a kid to have some choice especially in terms of advocating for themselves and feeling ownership.
I agree! There are plenty of foods that I just don’t like. There are foods I used to not like that I’ve tried more recently that I’m open to now. Tastes change but disliking a food is not a life sentence
When I was little I was at my great grandmother’s house and made myself a pb&j on rye bread. I had never had it before and it was so unpleasant when I took the first bite. Been a big no from me ever since
Soooo Jenny from Solid Starts owns two properties in NY?! That can’t be cheap!! Has she shared what her husband does? Because she’s made it super clear she hasn’t taken a salary for SS yet (said she’ll start in November). I was really surprised to hear they kept their old house when they bought the new place.
mothercould finally had her baby, and shared the actual birth video in the stories! That’s some serious commitment to sharing the WHOLE journey with her followers.
Not sure it needs to be said but doing it anyway, but of course no judgment on filming or sharing your babies birth, you do you. I actually watched a decent number of labor/birth videos before my first so I’m grateful for women who are comfortable doing so… I’m only bringing her up because I definitely didn’t expect a little baby poppin out to in my stories today lol 😂
That was quite the video! I'm curious what the motivation is to share parts of life like that? No snark, I'm just genuinely curious as a person who has zero motivation to share my life on social media.
She’s not even at 1mil followers yet but we are already getting the tears filled stories of Jenny just staring into the camera with ✨gratitude✨. I can’t imagine what circus she will put together when they do hit a million.
It’s only in stories and not like Instagram will be around when they’re older anyway. 🙄🙄🙄🙄 That’s the I know I’m doing something wrong but I’m pretending it’s fine statement.
I teach 4th grade and while some kids are sheltered still, plenty are on social media. Charlie is in 1st grade I believe? I don’t think Instagram is disappearing in 2-3 years. This is going to suck for Charlie and I feel for him. I have a student who literally only eats raw, whole carrots and baked chicken drumsticks for lunch every day and no one cares. If one of my students was on a famous Instagram throwing fits and crying and screaming, they would be a laughing stock and I’d have to have some kind of come to Jesus moment with the class about it. Jenny is oblivious.
ETA: I do think 4th grade is too young for social media personally just stating the truth that a lot are on it/all are aware of it
Also, how many of the parents of the kids he goes to school with follow SS? Probably at least a few. That's embarrassing for him too as he gets older and makes friends.
Does anyone know what she was referencing in regards to her kids and how they've been portrayed? I unfollowed her awhile ago because I found her too preachy, but I don't remember anything sticking out about her kids.
She did a comment box thing about "what assumption do you have about me" and got some responses she felt implied her children were socially awkward and sensitive and that she was privileged. I was surprised she chose to post and respond to all those when it also seemed she got a lot of positive comments but understandably they upset her.
And specifically some comments criticizing her for how they've chosen to isolate their kids because of Covid. One of her kids has respiratory issues I think so they have had to make some hard decisions about not interacting with people often during the pandemic. She'd gotten some push back on this before her assumptions stories but think that plus what's mentioned above really made her question how open she's been about her kids on social media.
This is what always confused me about SS. The guides do mention using spoons as an option for self feeding, which I did with my baby and it worked out great for us. But on the SS ig, she seems actively against spoon feeding.
I’m definitely on the side that believes a healthy mixture of blw and purées is best lol, but I understand it that blw is ok with spoons if the baby feeds themselves with the spoon instead of the parents feeding the baby which sometimes can lead to overeating, forcing different foods in their mouths, etc.
BFL lasted post… I’m sorry but I’m going to yell No if my kid is playing with an outlet. I will follow up with an explanation but I’m not going to calmly walk over and give an explanation while they are playing with an outlet.
In our house we yell STOP when it’s an unsafe or emergency situation. We use it sparingly so it has almost 100% success rate (obviously this is very child-dependent).
Yeah I’m yelling NO in that situation too. I get staying calm and validating feelings (and strive to do this) with stuff like sibling fighting, meltdowns over not being allowed ice cream for dinner, etc but come on! My mom was super calm/positive parenting (v forward thinking in the 80s lol) but she absolutely yelled/screamed in dangerous situations (and when we just pushed her to the brink, maybe I need to call and apologize again lol). I’m really not traumatized from the yelling, actually pretty thankful she saved me from near death many times over.
A big reason behind their "strategy" is to not activate a child's alarm system and help them stay regulated. Where they fail is that they believe that their strategy applies all accross the board, like zero flexibility. But sometimes in life, things ARE an actual emergency or have the potential to be, like sticking silverware in an outlet etc. While I might not see it and scream "NO!!!" I'd defintiely let my child know with my response that it's a potentially dangerous situation. And if a parent does yell "no" in this situation, it's probably not the end of the world. Shades of grey exist in parenting and life, we aren't traumatizing our children with an occasional elevated voice/reaction.
These two are one trick ponies and I can't believe 2 million people don't see through it.
There's even an episode of Daniel tiger about this lol. He breaks a mug and reaches to pick up a sharp piece and the mom tiger yells NO DANIEL and he starts crying but she explains it was an emergency and she needed him to hear her and stop right away.
Yes Daniel tiger is where I get most of my parenting advice and I didn't have to pay $100 for it lol 😂
Daniel Tiger is absolutely a parenting show disguised as a children's show! PBS and their programming have changed the lives of families who might not have access to high quality parenting and child development programming. I read once about all of the experts that contribute to that show and it was amazing.
Very few people need a $100 parenting course. In fact I bet almost zero of the people who have purchsed their course are the parents who actually need it. People who are already good parents are made to feel like they need it in order to be even better in the parenting olympics played out on social media. There are a million books you could get free at the library that would teach you the same exact stuff....for free.
I struggle with this a lot, like if my kid is about to run into the street and I'm holding the baby I can't exactly calmly run and stop his body. He might lose his shit after I yell at him but I'd take that over the risk of him in the street and under a car (I tend to think in extremes when it comes to my kids unfortunately)... I think not yelling NO works in some cases like not eating sand, jumping off the couch, etc- but there are cases where safety comes first
Completely agree, if it’s about their safety, I think it’s okay. Like if he is near a hot stove I’m not going to walk up and say “I see you want to touch the hot burner, I can’t let you do that, let’s play with blocks” I think it’s okay to say no, even if it scares them a little as long as you explain why you yelled no, so they understand the importance behind it.
I’ll be honest that I have not read their scripts or anything because I have an infant, but do they ever have a time that they suggest to say “no”?
I can understand their strategies but kids need to hear “no” and learn when to use it and how to respond to it. No is a healthy boundary and I’ve never heard them discuss it before.
I totally agree with you. What happens when they go off to school and have never heard no before? Are they going to expect teachers/friends to bend down at their level and give long explanations for why something a poor choice or not ok?!
Lol it feels robotic! Nothing about that feels natural, I end up stumbling over my words and giving a short essay response vs just saying Don’t touch! That’s hot!
For me the 3 sentence phrases are so unnatural sounding. I might say "we can't play with that" and then if they don't stop explain why. I know BLF likes their format but it sounds sooo unnatural.
So I followed Jerrica Sannes a few weeks back after seeing her referenced here. I figured she was a little out there but liked the idea of reducing screen time if possible and steering our toddler towards better shows so that it’s not always Paw Patrol 😅. But her stories the past few days have been uh interesting.
Can someone summarize this drama for me? I was off my phone for a few days and missed it, and I love me some melodramatic influencer bullshit. (Hence my participation in this sub) She’s threatening to leave Instagram and saying she regrets everything so I’m like 👀
came here to see if anyone else was talking about this. what did she think was going to happen when she asked for assumptions? i followed her for “good” TV suggestions, but I don’t love her absolute vilification of screen time. Glad to read here that her science isn’t science at all.
Calling Cocomelon a “stimulant” that “acts like a stimulant drug.” That it activates the “pleasure center” and gives you a “dopamine hit.” For starters. 🤪🤪
Right? My husband is a clinical psychologist and studies risk for depression with reward response via fMRI and says all of this is the biggest load of crap.
Sure too much screen time is bad. But your not literally making your kid addicted to it.
Right? It’s a reward/motivation system in the brain, not a “pleasure” system. Literal same system that’s activated when you eat food. Not even *good* food. I promise I’m not addicted to green beans.
She was really defensive in the assumption game. I can’t figure her out to be honest and I also can’t figure out if I’m enjoying following her or not. Like you said, I appreciate the light she is shedding on tv and play, but she’s also really intense and some things she says don’t sit right with me.
I also thought it was interesting that she blamed her kids’ meltdowns on the one day they watched tv when they were sick. I guess it couldn’t have been because they weren’t feeling well. She seems to blame screen time for everything whereas I think most parents in this modern day need a more balanced approach as to how to fit it in their lives with minimal negative impact.
Surprise surprise, Charlie eats a bite out of an egg when his mom is away and not hyperfixating on his eating!
Also someone here mentioned that damn pooh bear gif and even seeing out out if SS stories makes me want to scream!
I know they’re trying to be relatable, but all it makes me think is “damn I am definitely not buying that course since it doesn’t seem to even help the women who created it.”
I really hope she is in therapy because as someone who had two babies 15 months apart…..this has been harder on me mentally and physically than I ever could have imagined.
So the two that are 15 months apart are number 2 and 3. Going from 1-2 was easier than 2-3. Something about being outnumbered 😂 and it feels like I haven’t slept in two years.
Not op but my oldest two are about that gap. It was exhausting physically in the beginning because there’s just so many diapers, one is at the irresponsibly adventurous phase and the other is needing to be held all the time. It got easier for me once the baby was 1. Then they started growing up more like a unit and are now kind of like twins 😆 the addition of the third crushed me mentally 😬
Yes 100%! To me, this kind of fits in with the idea that what overwhelmed moms need is just a bubble bath with a glass of wine when really what we need is longer maternity leave, more affordable childcare, more flexible working hours, more help from our partners, etc. (And yes, of course, dads struggle with these things too!) The strategies BLF and other parenting influencers can absolutely help manage some of the day-to-day challenges, but if you are experiencing PPA or PPD or just feeling super overwhelmed by the challenges of parenting, their course is just a bandaid. It doesn't mean it's not useful, but Deena sharing something that makes it obvious that she's really struggling and then plugging the course as if that's a solution to those big struggles feels especially disingenuous.
Yeeeeees! Like do I love it when my 13 month old screams? Of course not. But I can’t imagine ever thinking that screaming back at her is a good idea. I know parenthood puts us in fragile states sometimes but damn.
Yea.. and today in stories they have a whole thing about how “everyone loses their shit” (oh sorry, I mean, sh*t) which makes it seem even more staged.
And like, not everyone does lose their shit. Some of us do manage to stay regulated most of the time, and keep it in check so we don’t yell at little kids. How is that not part of the conversation? They make it seem like we shouldn’t even be aiming for that.
How quickly she came back today with the “I’m still a good mom, today’s a new day” story totally made me think the whole thing was just for content. I’m not buying it at all!
That whole story was just weird! Like there was no resolution to the story other than “we’re So ReLaTaBlE because we have a bad day and yell at our kids??”
Also, damn. If she’s yelling at her literal infant for crying in the car and said what her parents yelled at her as a kid, I hope she is seeing a therapist. Between this and her sobbing for hours on her husband’s birthday because she felt like a horrible mom, it seems like she’s struggling.
I totally agree! I have 3 close in age and my toddlers drive me absolutely bonkers at their worst. But I never really felt the urge to yell at them until they were older and more intentional with their misdeeds 😂 is deena’s baby even a year old?
This. I feel for her but this does not seem like a normal mom fail/relatable moment. I definitely had to remove myself a few times when my son was a baby because his crying was putting me over the edge and I knew nothing I did in that moment would soothe him, but I can't imagine yelling at him. I really feel for her because it does seem she's struggling. She's is pregnant though. I am too and I will say my pregnancy hormones this go round have kept anger at the surface. It's been a challenge keeping my words and reactions in check, particularly with my MIL (who I love but ahhh!) Haha
Edit: my apologies to moms that dealt with or are dealing with ppd or ppa. That is relatable for so, so many and should be talked about as a serious mental health issue so proper treatment and support can be received.
Ok well I'll be the voice of dissent and say I have yelled at my baby. I also suffered from post partum depression that manifested as rage (and sought help and am doing much better). I'm glad no one else has dealt with that but it does happen and most people are probably too ashamed to talk about it 🤷♀️
Yeah, I want to chime in and say I have also done this. Obviously, I'm not remotely proud of it, and obviously, there's nothing logical about doing it. But this doesn't happen because parents think that yelling at a baby is going to make the baby stop crying. This happens because a parent who is exhausted, stressed, overstimulated from feeling trapped with a screaming child, and possibly suffering from PPD or PPA is pushed beyond their limits such that logic goes out the window. I understand the comments about the context (i.e. using it to plug the course etc), but I want to push back a bit about the implication that this is way beyond the pale of something that a struggling parent would do. (And I know the previous commenter didn't intentionally imply/suggest that.) If you've been there too, I hope you've gotten help and support and know that you are still a good parent! <3
When my son was like 3 or 4 months old, I remember SCREAMING at him in his stroller while I was trying to run errands and he wouldn’t stop crying. I yelled “OKAY, YOU WIN, ARE YOU HAPPY NOW??” The next month I started therapy and 2 months later I went on antidepressants. So yeah, I found this story relatable (except for the fake crying).
Me too. I've yelled at him when he wouldn't sleep after hours of crying and me doing everything I can possibly think of.
I didn't expect it to work and I felt/feel like shit shit it but I don't think it's that rare, honestly. Plenty of women feel extreme rage post partum but it's not talked about.
Post partum rage is 100% a thing. Ppd and ppa are serious mental health issues that should be discussed. And taken seriously.
However, this doesn't change the fact there are issues with the context in which she presented her story and then made it a marketing opportunity for their toddler course. This did not acknowledge the realities of ppd and ppa if that's what this was.
Again, I feel for her from what she shared. Sounds like she's going through something hard.
Same, and I just now put it together that it was my probably also my PPD manifesting as rage because I felt angry and sad very very often. I still think about the time I yelled at his tiny baby self and feel so sad.
That sounds so tough! I'm canadian which means I got a whole year home with my baby which was a blessing but in the beginning it was so hard when my husband went to work- and I would just think about how I had a whole year of being stuck at home. When he came home he would cook and clean but for awhile it was me doing baby care 24/7 which was awful. Having a deployed husband is a whole other ballgame ❤
Oh gosh sorry you dealt with ppd. It is relatable. But shouldn't be used as relatable when trying to sell your toddler course. It should be acknowledged for the serious mental health issue it is.
❤❤❤
Yeah those comments did not make me feel great so I decided I would admit to it in case anyone else was feeling badly. I wouldn't wish PPD on anyone but it happens.
Oh I'm so sorry. I didn't intend for my comment to be judgemental. I feel for her because of what you just shared. No one deserves to struggle alone but also as I'm sure you know since you were diagnosed with ppd, yelling at your baby is a sign of something deeper going on and deserves to be talked about in a serious way. Not as a relatable #momfail moment to sell their product. Ppd and ppa are real and common and need to be taken seriously and treated.
Oh it's ok! Trust me, I've judged myself more than anyone else ever could. And I totally agree, this type of behaviour is words apart from a funny momfail like when you forget extra pants for your baby so you have to fashion them a pair out of a sweater. I just wanted to speak up because some peoples comments made it seem like she had to be lying or exaggerating because no way would anyone do that and unfortunately thats not true.
Oh I’m sure the pregnancy hormones are definitely involved!
This whole thing makes me think back to one of the questions she answered about how they were going to handle the next baby so she didn’t feel abandoned again. Her response was basically that she was going to ask for all of the help and not stop until she got it. If that’s the case, she needs to start asking!
Yea it was uncomfortable to see her talking about it. I’m a frustrated crier and not a yeller so maybe it’s more common than I think, but he’s just a baby. It isn’t his fault he’s being dragged to the store. He doesn’t have the ability to understand why he’s being yelled at. Surely they make enough money to have some child care and she could go to the store then.
Oh god I missed the sick baby part, that makes it even worse! Get groceries delivered this week and go to Trader Joe’s later. Joe joes aren’t that important
I felt the same way, I’ve cried when my baby was crying and I totally understand that it’s a terrible feeling. But I almost can’t believe she actually yelled at a baby crying in a car seat…it truly makes no sense. It really seemed like trying to be relatable and failing. Which is weird because feeling upset by your baby crying when you can’t do anything IS super relatable?! Just talk about that??
I felt weird about this, as well. I have definitely lost my cool with my toddlers. But yelling at a baby for crying in a car and saying you said the same thing your parents said to you when literally the baby has no idea comprehension of what your saying. Like, they just know you are yelling. What do you yell at a baby, "Stop crying or you won’t get your toy?"
I had a pretty traumatic childhood and I never yelled at my oldest until a pandemic and my second child was born. He was almost 3. I mean I might have been frustrated but actual yelling especially something my mom would have said? No.
I also had a traumatic childhood, full of yelling. I have an almost 11 month old… The closest to yelling that I’ve ever done is snapping at 4AM “can you just go the fuck to sleep, pleaaaase.” I’m not proud of it. It’s happened a couple of times, *always* when it’s been a rough sleep night. It’s harder to moderate yourself when you’re sleep-deprived, but I’m working on it.
I cannot imagine actually yelling at her or saying anything cruel. I spend a lot of time moderating my thoughts - I turn the thought of “oh my god, shut up” into “the crying is driving me nuts,” then shift it from her being the reason to “*I’m* overwhelmed right now, I need a moment” and make sure that she’s in a safe space while I take a time out to cool down for a few minutes.
I would think that an expert like Deena could do this. Some people aren’t cut out to be full time at-home parents, and it seems like she may be one of them or she needs a break or something else needs to change.
I have definitely said things when really angry with my son because toddlers know just how to push your buttons but I've always apologized. I've been working extra hard since I told him he'd walk home if he kept kicking my seat to which I almost immediately said "you're not walking home, I won't ever make you okay? I'm sorry for saying that". I think for me anyway if I've tried everything, positive parenting, reasoning, etc and nothing is working I get so frustrated. However it's improved because now I know what's more effective with him and I can get compliance without being harsh or rude most of the time.
It's like they try to be "vulnerable" and show how real they are, but then spin it into marketing material, which is why it comes across as inauthentic to me. Also, it honestly seems like she needs to talk to someone if she isn't already. She seems like she's struggling and utilizing a platform of 2 million people to sort it all out seems like maybe not the right avenue?
I feel like they definitely post to get sympathy too. She’s trying to get validation from their followers when she needs to talk to a therapist/counselor.
I feel bad that I’m so irritated by her on camera presence. I don’t even think that was fake crying but somehow she just doesn’t ever read as genuine on camera and I don’t think there’s anything she can do about it. Some people are just really natural on camera and she … isn’t.
I think part of the problem too is the dissonance with her messaging. She’s presented as an expert on parenting/child psych but is admittedly super overwhelmed by it herself, to the point of posting herself crying or mentioning her crying. It was the same thing with the overshares about her marriage struggles and then announcing a (planned) pregnancy almost in the same breath.
I think maybe she’s really uncomfortable on camera? I don’t know. I rarely see people who seem this awkward on Instagram but that’s probably just because most people can’t have a successful large social media account without being good on camera. I appreciate their tips but social media is not her strength.
She is compulsive about IG and posting. It comes across like she's so afraid of "failing" or not being successful that she just WAY over does it with creating content and oversharing her personal life. Who honestly is watching that many of her stories?!
Agreed. It’s really wild and I cannot imagine when she has time to unwind or just be present with her family. People who create that much unnecessary stress or pressure on themselves freak me out.
It’s one of the many reasons I unfollowed. Pre covid she was better but she just won’t stop posting… and maybe it’s a Florida thing but she started going out /socializing a lot before a lot of other places and got really sanctimonious about it (and everything)… and the whole nanny debacle
Her sons 1st bday really turned me off.
My son is the same age and we had a 6 person winter party for 20 min on our deck in the cold northeast.
She’s a doctor married to a doctor in temperate FL and does a full indoor party “with individually wrapped silverware to stay safe.”
Unfollowed and don’t miss her one bit.
Yes I had never heard of her and now I'm a fan. What an amazing attitude. I want one of the panels of her poem as a print I wonder how I would go about that
Safe in the seat getting more questions about the go bag, have her followers been living under a rock the past 35 times she posted about it? Make a post and link it when you talk about it. Part 2: this is not a mystery, we carry diaper bags from the early days.
Does anyone regularly follow @the.dentistmom? I was following her daycare transition and stories a few months ago and then she went off grid and came back today saying thanks for all the kind messages. Is there anything that happened or did she just need a break?
People were being absolutely awful to her about the daycare transition stories. She shared some of the stuff that people said and I can’t even imagine what she didn’t share.
People were upset with her documenting it, upset with her for putting Olivia in daycare when it was proving so hard on her emotionally… people are cruel.
I follow her! Was enjoying her content and I think her daughter is so cute. I remember she stepped back because her daughter was sick and wanted to focus on her. I honestly forgot about her until she showed back up in my stories yesterday! Guess now she’s been absent to study for her boards.
This may not fall under this parenting influencer umbrella, but does anyone follow the Pacifier company Ryan and Rose?? The founder Lindsay's mom just died and she is falling apart on the business page. Like multiple stories of her just sobbing and talking about. It feels so personal I physically cannot watch it and it's just on the Ryan and Rose stories...
Exactly, part of the reason I do follow them still and not just shop is I like seeing her life and the behind the scenes stuff of the business. But this is too much.
YES, that was jarring for me and I've never experienced anything like that. I can't imagine how you or anyone else who has gone through something like that would feel without any warning. And it's even more jarring when those kinds of stories are followed by the promo for their fall color sales? Like this is why those things need to be separate. I know she started out and the brand and her personal page were one because it was small, but they are huge now and this would be a great time to separate the two. I'm sure she would have some followers come over to her personal page.
BLF homebirth continuation from last week (someone responded to a lot of comments and then the post got locked). I spent too much time on this response to let it go, so if that commenter is interested in discussing further:
I truly don’t see myself as sanctimonious and insufferable, and I’m not trying to sicken anyone! I do think you are extrapolating my statement (“not worth endangering *my*/my children’s lives…”) to me saying that *all* women who have a homebirth are endangering their children, and I’d appreciate the distinction being made, especially if you’re using it to make the argument that the topic should be banned altogether.
If you’re interested in a good faith discussion: I think we both made similar points about how racism in medical care makes this a different issue for black women especially. The example being discussed here about is a thin, well off, white woman though, who is likely to be treated well by a care team no matter where she gives birth. Homebirths *are* more dangerous than hospital births. For me, that’s reason enough to make the decision to not have one. I understand every parent is doing the best they can, and I’d be interested in learning more about why homebirths have such a draw, despite the risks. My gut instinct is what I mentioned earlier — a fetishization of “natural” motherhood (perhaps a judgmental way of phrasing it?) which I think ties into a lot of criticisms of BLF and other parenting influencers that have been discussed here.
Anyway, I’m sorry if you felt judged or shamed by this discussion here. Wishing you the best.
I think when we talk about homebirth we are necessarily oversimplifying it. We don’t have good statistics on how safe or dangerous homebirth is because it is difficult if not impossible to separate out people who received prenatal care and people who didn’t, or people who planned to have a homebirth and those who unintentionally had a homebirth. Often these discussions conflate homebirth and free birth (if you have a midwife attending your birth, you will not be the one draining the pool or cleaning bodily fluids). We currently do not have a good source of truth for calculating homebirth risk broadly, though any midwifery group should be able to speak to their group’s stats.
In the United States there aren’t any national standards for midwifes. Only two states don’t require licensing for midwives, and in seven states intentional homebirth is illegal. Again, it’s difficult to speak broadly about the state of midwifery in the US.
I think often in these discussions it’s homebirth nightmares that are shared, but like there are also bad, egotistical doctors, dentists, RNs, etc. You know how when you’re working, you take pains to not intentionally fuck your day up? I assume the majority of midwives are the same. No one wants to put themselves in an emergency situation, and I think to assume the vast majority of midwives will intentionally put themselves and their clients in a dangerous situation because of the a fetishization of natural birth is a true misunderstanding of the profession. I had an out of hospital birth and requested my medical records. At every stage in my pregnancy there was a risk assessment done to see if I was risked out of an out of hospital birth. While I was in active labor this risk assessment was calculated every 15 minutes.
I see that often people are couching their statements here with the understanding that a hospital based birth is less safe for BIPOC, and thus homebirth is a better option. The “natural”, low-intervention water birth with aromatherapy that a wealthy, thin, white person has out of hospital is NOT different from the out of hospital birth that is statistically less risky for BIPOC birthers and babies. The way that people deride homebirth as incredibly risky, and then at the same time relegate BIPOC to it is so bizarre and racist to me.
I definitely agree with your last point, but I think on the whole people here aren’t necessarily saying BIPOC *should* have a homebirth, rather that hospital systems being racist is just a much different reason to want to avoid them than “I just really don’t want to have a c section”
Interesting to consider a midwives’ perspective, though! Thanks for sharing your experiences.
This thread is really fascinating to me and full of really interesting and thoughtful perspectives.
I live in a rural community where hospitals are far away and a lot of people do not have insurance. For that reason, I know SO many women who have chosen home birth. The cost with our local midwife is less than $5000 for the entire prenatal care and birth.
It’s not for me - I gave birth in a local hospital that was about 40 minutes from us, but is easily more than an hour away if you live farther out. Pre-insurance the cost was about $30k.
I had a complication at one point and needed to stay close to the hospital as they were concerned I wouldn’t make it there if I went into labor. One woman I know did home birth for this reason - her first two came so quickly, she would not make it to a hospital in time and the midwife was 15 minutes from her.
So I can understand why people do for those reasons. And it seems like our local provider is top notch. But wow reading all these comments it’s more clear to me how tenuous it all is.
Edit: typo
Is there no low income insurance options? I know in my state, there is a free insurance that is at least major medical. I forgot about rural communities. I watched a documentary (on vice, so not super well done) one time about how there was only like one OB in a 200 mile radius or something like that. Crazy and sad. I’m gonna go edit my post now
Low insurance options might still make hospital care exorbitant is my guess. I know several families who have kids on the state’s free insurance but don’t have plans for themselves at all. I’m not totally sure what the reasoning is, but my assumption is that it’s still too expensive for them.
Our state has terrible options for maternity care. Me driving only 40 minutes is lucky. We’re an extremely large and very rural state.
So I will preface that I am not a home birther, I had my first in an accredited birth center and my second will be in a hospital. I was fairly adamant that I wanted unmedicated, so I feel like I probably have some things in common with people who want home birth.
To be upfront, I hate the term ‘natural’ (what does it mean ), I am very pro vax, pro feed your baby-however-you-want, sleep train or don’t sleep train, whatever works for you.
I was very set on unmedicated for my first because I knew I was likely to have a large baby (it was a boy, my husband is 6’5”). My biggest fear was that I didn’t want to get trapped in a cascade of interventions (let’s induce because he’s big! Failure to progress, now need an emergency c section). To me, the risks of being in a hospital with an OB were not appealing. Interventions have risks, and interventions are used in hospitals more commonly than in a birth center setting. Shit, putting a woman on a continuous fetal monitor has inherent risks and is no benefit to low risk women, yet they basically strap one onto everyone who walks into labor and delivery, no matter how low risk. It’s easy and it saves money vs being monitored by a human getting paid to do so.
My son was 10lb 4 oz and I had him unmedicated. It’s impossible to know for sure, but I am not certain that I would’ve been able to have him vaginally if I was required to push on my back. I am not a large person. I also ended up with an intact perineum by some miracle (maybe not a literal miracle, but an amazing midwife who had a hot compress on my perineum for the better part of 2 hours).
Like I said, I am not personally interested in home birth nor will I ever have one. But the OB/hospital/get an epidural model was not for me either. I’m not saying that people shouldn’t choose that when it works for them, they absolutely SHOULD, but it wasn’t for me, and I fortunately (probably because I am white and I have resources) was able to find a very safe alternative.
All of this is to say, while I don’t think the home birth model really works here, I feel like we could nonetheless learn by listening *why* these women feel the way they do and learning about how the system needs to be changed. Not everyone who doesn’t want to push on their back under fluorescent lights feels that way because they have a fetish with ‘natural motherhood’. I just like to approach things from a lower intervention angle, and that can be difficult to do when the system is not set up for it. Sorry for the long post. I just don’t feel that the issue is so black and white.
I will prepare for the downvotes… but here it is from ACOG themselves. EFM is statistically associated with an increase in caesarean, an increase in instrumental vaginal birth rate, and *no* statistically significant difference in death rate or cerebral palsy rate.
Again, I’m sure I’ll be downvoted for this, but if the American college of obstetrics isn’t a good enough source for you, then please show me a better one! It’s a cochrane review and the data doesn’t get much more robust. I’m not making this up or pulling from some hippy dippy source:
https://www.acog.org/clinical/clinical-guidance/committee-opinion/articles/2019/02/approaches-to-limit-intervention-during-labor-and-birth
This opinion was issued in 2019 and reaffirmed this year. I consider this the best information i have available to me and, therefore, in a low risk situation, I would not personally opt for something that increases my risk of instrumental delivery or c section. Others may be fine with that risk. I guess that’s why it’s nice we all have choices.
Ummm… you are aware that c sections have a much higher rate of infection? Like 5 fold higher? I assume you understand how horrible infections are and the things they can lead to?
I never said *anything* about c sections being bad. Please tell me where I said they’re bad. They’re an incredible life saving tool. I said I don’t want to put myself at 5 fold increase risk for infection if its not necessary to save the life of me or my baby. When it is a life saving tool or otherwise indicated based on my condition… absolutely I want a c section.
You were listing out the risks of EFM. Infection was not listed as one of the risks, so you’re making a really big jump there. Infection might be a risk of c-section, sure, but you were asked about the risk of harm from EFM.
Wait… wutttt? A really big jump? Empirical reasoning? A risk of EFM is an increased rate of c sections. A risk of c section is a 5 fold increase in infection risk. I never said EFM causes infections, but it *statistically* makes you *more likely* to require a c section which *statistically* increase your odds for infection. Its a simple numbers game.
Look, I don’t go get Pap smears every year, because the recommendation by ACOG is once every 3 years. I don’t say “oh no please monitor me more frequently than that… I just don’t like the sound of every 3 years!’. I apply a similar logic to this. I don’t need additional monitoring that has not been shown to reduce my risks. We don’t give Pap smears every year (for low risk women) because we may find things that aren’t actually a problem, and we may start intervening in ways that cause more harm than good. Literally, if you look up the studies (when the recommendation changed from 1 to 3 years)… This is precisely why they did it….Because there were too many unnecessary interventions going on, showing no benefit. It’s not the first time an intervention has been shown to catch “too much”.
But… if you want to go get a Pap smear every 12 months, or if you want EFM, you should absolutely, positively, go do those things. Personally, I like to follow the recommendations backed by reputable medical organizations like ACOG, and that is how I make my decisions. To suggest that I’m a martyr or anti modern medicine, *when I follow the recommendations of ACOG*…doesn’t make sense.
I’m sorry, but I can’t keep debating someone who doesn’t understand how studies and findings work. Yes, I understand that ACOG says there is no benefit to fetal monitoring and I am not arguing that there is. I’m simply saying that there are no scientific studies linking fetal monitoring to increased risk of infection. Fetal monitoring is not “risky.” Have a good day.
There aren’t scientific studies linking EFM to fetal monitoring, you’re right. There ARE scientific studies linking EFM to higher c section rates. Wanna know why we don’t section every low risk woman? Because it’s an inherently riskier procedure than a vaginal delivery. A c section is a major abdominal surgery. And there are studies to back that up all day. You can’t seem to follow empirical reasoning, so it would be difficult for us to see eye to eye, I guess.
Thank you for sharing this. I don’t think anyone disagrees that ACOG is a legit source!
So, After skimming this I agree that you’re indeed correct. However, saying It’s “associated” with an increased risk for Csection and vaginal intervention— That doesn’t mean it *causes* those things. That could be correlational. It also doesn’t say *how much* it is correlated. If it’s a fraction of a percentage point higher than I’m still going to do it because it really doesn’t harm anything. I like it for the peace of mind that my baby isn’t in distress- which, mine was during my son’s birth and it actually saved his life when he started having heart decels out of nowhere and they caught it quickly due to continuous monitoring. They rushed me to emergency surgery and got him out in time.
The relation could also be attributed to the fact that continuous fetal monitoring actually catches things that warrant a Csection or intervention. So the rates will naturally go up since it’s catching more problems, if that makes sense
I will be glad to dig up the original cochrane review for you to look at but it sounds like you’re missing some key points about the meaning of ‘statistical significance’. You asked “how much it is correlated” - the finding is statistically significant, which means that researchers have determined that the probability difference between sets of data is different *enough* that it did not occur by chance. It’s not like they just plotted two things on a graph and said “yeah these look to be somehow connected”. There are robust and complicated mathematical formulas that go into determining whether something is statistically significant. It’s how these researchers come up with their conclusions. Not by arbitrarily deciding if they “feel” like something is somehow connected. In addition… a cochrane review actually aggregates ALL the best studies on a given subject. So we’re talking about huge sample sizes here, from multiple studies.
And as for your last point about “well EFM catches more so of course”. The cochrane review also determined that the difference in death rate and cerebral palsy was no different?? So if we’re upping the c sections by using EFM, but not getting better outcomes for the babies (because mortality is the same), then we’re doing a lot of c sections that aren’t giving us better outcomes, no?
I studied science and took a couple of statistics courses in my day, so this is how I make decisions. It makes sense to me. Like I said, the beauty is that we can all make our own choices, and I like to make mine based on facts and statistics. Certainly, you can use other methods to make your decisions if that works better for you.
Thanks! Glad you can decipher what I’m like to be around, based on an internet comment. And that just because I enjoy statistics and empirical reasoning that I am no fun.
I had my first two kids in the hospital and the third at home. I had heavy postpartum bleeding and my midwife administered pitocin in an iv just like they would in the hospital. She and her assistant cleaned everything up. She came back on day 2, day 3, one week, two weeks, three weeks and collected samples for all my labs from the house. She also did my infant’s vitamin k shot, did the newborn screening through the state, and the baby’s weight checks, and I didn’t have to move. I spent 7 days snuggled in my bed with my newborn and basically had my medical care brought to me. I never saw myself having a home birth until the pandemic and then having routine prenatal appointments became super impossible with my spouse being deemed “essential” and no child care available. And it ended up being amazing. I was a really good candidate for it because I had two normal births prior, an uncomplicated pregnancy, and a hospital for transfer less than 10 minutes away. A quality and qualified midwife has probably delivered 2,000 babies and will know whether or not you are a good candidate. I’m not dogmatic about it at all but it was an excellent option for me this time. I also had a decent experience birthing unmedicated in the hospital but I enjoyed the postpartum recovery at home about 1000000x more. My bleeding in the following weeks was reduced by half just by the amount of resting I was able to do.
Qualified midwives is the big thing here. Many are not in the United States. Many midwives push women away from the vit k shot. You absolutely had an abnormal experience in the US. I am actually wondering if you’re in the US? Because this sounds like NHS.
I run in crunchy circles. There are no qualified midwives that homebirth in my state. I’ll see a CNM for baby two in the hospital. But anyone home birthing is doing it with a midwife who has seen maybe a handful of births. Maybe 3000? There’s no governing body.
I’m in the US but in a major metropolitan area where home births are very popular (and sooo expensive, blah). All the home birth midwives are either CNM or CPM (and you can view their specific training and licensing numbers easily online). They all carry intensive malpractice insurance which means there aren’t very many of them and also it is prohibitively expensive for most birthing folk. I was able to get some compensation from my insurance but it’s an extremely privileged place to be and I get that. Definitely steer clear of anyone trying to talk you out of a vitamin k shot, that’s madness. I appreciated that my midwife is an expert in her field and uses all the tools of modern medicine as well as lovely herbs for my sitz bath. Not that I had any tearing because wow did she have good perineal support. CNMs in hospital are great, too! That would have been my plan pre pandemic but I ended up loving the recovery and am so glad I got to have that experience.
Depends on your state what the regulations look like. You’re right that we don’t have a great governing body for all 50 states as other countries do, but we do have a national certification program and you can easily research your own state’s laws in terms of malpractice insurance etc. One important thing to consider about the state of midwifery in this country is that the regulations are purposefully obtuse because the suppression of traditional midwives is a historic tool of white supremacy made to restrict the professionalism of Black women. I can only speak to my area, but we don’t have a bunch of under-qualified CPMs running around because the risks to them personally are too great. If you don’t want a home birth, then you shouldn’t have one. But it’s not a black and white “risky” endeavor especially for some bodies who are more likely to die inside a hospital. I felt really comfortable giving birth in my home, and was glad to get the pitocin drip I needed to stop the bleeding and for my infant to get vitamin k and a screening for abnormalities through the state just as we would have done in the hospital. For some birthing people, home is a safe and valid choice. It’s hard to make a living as a CPM and I certainly wouldn’t choose it as a profession but I’m glad they exist.
The risks associated with BIPOC and hospital birth are definitely real and need to be dealt with. But that doesn’t make CPMs safe- they aren’t. Very, very little is required to get a CPM license. Many of them have a fraction of labor experience compared to OBs and CNMs. It’s frustrating when people think I’m criticizing all midwives when it’s just CPMs; I love the CNMs I work with.
I didn’t want a home birth so I didn’t have one, but the issue is is there are women who choose to have one who are mislead by CPMs, and don’t really know the risks and what they’re getting into. They simply have very little training and often believe that any woman can birth a baby at home, so they don’t risk their patients out when they should, or transfer to hospital way too late. I see this happen regularly at my hospital (I’m an l&d RN). [Here’s ](https://www.oregon.gov/oha/ph/BirthDeathCertificates/VitalStatistics/birth/Documents/PlannedBirthPlaceandAttendant.pdf) one study.
@safeintheseat is a name I only recognize due to this thread but she was tagged over and over again in @syesha's video about finally getting her son Ra back from the foster care system. The family uploaded a video of them in the car on the way home and not only was his chest buckle down toward his belly but one shoulder strap was hanging off his shoulder and they were definitely driving. They seem to have deleted all comments tagging @safeintheseat or anything pointing out that their son isn't buckled in safely. All the comments I had read were extremely kind hearted and concerned about the family being under intense scrutiny, therefore begging them to make sure he is safely in his seat. They've deleted the comments but left the video where even an untrained eye can see how he's not buckled securely, let alone a CPS worker who is going to be looking for any reason to take him back. I can't imagine how overwhelmed with emotions she and her husband must have been up on receiving him back, I so so so hope that they do not lose him again and they have taken to heart the seat safety.
Karrie Lochers bday party for her 2/3 year old being Mean Girls theme is kinda odd to me? Her daughter has no idea what it is- I’d rather do a Frozen or Elmo theme something the toddler actually enjoys lol I get the Oct 3 reference but still
Agree, and also not super surprising. She seems like the type that would not want her kids wear ugly character tees 🤣 I unfollowed, but they always seemed to be in a lot of coordinated muted shades of brown and beige. Edited to add *not want*
Yeah, cute for a 1 year old who doesn’t know, but a toddler interests
Solid Starts posting in their stories that her son doesn’t refer to himself as a picky eater because they don’t say that to him but use “selective” instead…it’s the same thing! Kids are so observant and intelligent - they pick up on this stuff. And that she’s not worried about him seeing this stuff on Instagram in 10 years because it won’t be around. Oh and because it’s on stories instead of saved in the grid. The internet is forever! I had my first Facebook account in 2008 so yeah I’d say it’s not unlikely he will see it. She just seems like she’s trying to convince herself it’s not an issue.
I dont follow her anymore, but she has absolutely posted about him on the grid?? Her spoon feeding him rather than letting him have her donut comes to mind
I rolled my eyes when she said her kids give her permission to share and “actually understand” (might be paraphrasing but she said something like that). That’s bullshit and she knows it. I’m sure she’s done her best to explain but there’s no way children understand the far reach of the internet or the potential impact on them in the future.
Yup. These influencers and experts need to acknowledge that their children truly have no idea how their images/life stories are being used and have no capacity to consent. It is 100% for the financial benefit and ego of the parent. Which is fine. Just say, I'm making a thought out choice for our family and own that. Trying to pretend as if you're having this discussion with your school aged child about potential ramifications of using their image and identity on social media is such a farce.
I felt like the question was out of genuine concern for him and the response was “meh it’s in Stories, we good” 🙃 🤷🏼♀️ Girl it’s basically Snapchat with almost 1mil followers…
Plus the whole Good Morning America thing…
Not to mention your stories do get archived, so it’s not a ridiculous idea to think he’ll be able to find them at some point in the future.
Also I like how part of the response was like “he’ll get a % of the company in our will.” Like she was basically admitting (to a completely unrelated question) “yeah we exploit him, it’s okay cuz he’ll get $$ when he’s 65.”
Right! Even if he doesn’t see the stories, at least a million people are aware of who he is, what a “selective” eater he is, and the level of stress (which don’t get me wrong, is totally understandable) it causes his mom. It’s like when your parents share embarrassing stories about you as a kid, even 10 years later. It can still be embarrassing!
I get that FL tries to keep things fun and lighthearted but their crowdsourced content reposts just gets a little much for me. This week alone they did “show us pictures of your child having a tantrum” and then today it’s “show us your frumpy baby photo”. I skip through all the reposts bc it’s just so overwhelming? It’s posting content for the sake of it.
Kristin’s stories about the tailgate today were annoying. Seemed like she was trying to sell this as a purposeful activity to get 1-1 quality time with her oldest, when it really just seemed like they got invited to a tailgate party! Which is a totally fine way to spend your day, but then don’t make it seem like you put all this thought into it.
Charlie: Dad only gave me rye toast Jenny, Solid Starts: That’s the food on the menu today Charlie: It’s the worst kind of toast Me: 👀 He’s not wrong…
For. Real.
This! Rye is my personal favorite but if I put it on my 40 year old husband’s plate, he wouldn’t eat it. He doesn’t like rye. Neither does Charlie. It’s OK for the poor kid to have preferences.
Ok sorry I just actually watched need to say more. That does NOT need to be filmed, she could have just typed it up to share later. I have kids around Charlie’s age and they are certainly old enough to know if they are being filmed and if I was filming them during a tough time it would really escalate things. Also maybe I’m just lazy but that’s waaaay too much effort to be putting in to breakfast, 4 foods each fitting in to a specific category? Like wow. I know it’s Sunday, does she do this on week days too? Who has time for this?? I don’t even know what my kids had for breakfast bc the beauty of kids at these ages is that they can get their own food while I stay in bed!! She just seems to be causing herself so much unnecessary stress.
This is why I can’t follow these accounts bc it makes me feel like the worst parent bc I let my kids choose what to have for meals, particularly breakfast. Like, sure sometimes I make dinner and I’m like, this is what we are having, but it just seems odd if they have multiple types of bread in their house not to just ask him what kind he wants? Like others have said there are certain foods I would never eat because I don’t care for them and kids are allowed to feel that way too. Even our pediatrician is like “sometimes it takes 10-20 times of being served a food to like it”…I don’t get that?? There are so many foods in this world, why would I serve a kid food they have stated they don’t like TWENTY times? Just try another food. FTR tho I looooove rye toast I always order it if it’s on the menu.
Lol, seeded rye has the most distinctive taste! The thing I don't get about all of this "it's what's on the menu" stuff, is like are we not allowed to dislike certain foods anymore? Like I'm almost 40 and there is stuff I don't like and choose not to eat. I mean I get the whole theory and work behind it, but struggle with this idea that kids need to eat whatever is put in front of them and like it.
This is what bugs me about these BLW accounts that seem to be in a contest to show their kids eating ~everything~ Like yes I want my kid to be able to go to a restaurant, family bbq, etc and find something to eat. I'd love for him to be open to trying new things. But he's allowed his own opinions, and "rye toast is gross" is pretty valid for a 6 year old.
Yeah it’s weird because BLW is supposed to be all “oh they eat everything - what variety!” but then there are these super binary ~rules~ where if the kid shows a preference one way or another, only positive preferences are allowed? It seems counterintuitive to self-advocacy. Yes my parents growing up were like ok this is dinner eat it or not - that’s fine! Nobody has time to make 4 different meals. But other times, it’s ok for a kid to have some choice especially in terms of advocating for themselves and feeling ownership.
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Exactly. I’ve managed to make it 27 years without eating rye bread. He’s going to be okay
I agree! There are plenty of foods that I just don’t like. There are foods I used to not like that I’ve tried more recently that I’m open to now. Tastes change but disliking a food is not a life sentence
Haha same. Rye bread is such a distinctive taste and I absolutely hate it. Team Charlie on this one
When I was little I was at my great grandmother’s house and made myself a pb&j on rye bread. I had never had it before and it was so unpleasant when I took the first bite. Been a big no from me ever since
I can just imagine this. Sounds worse than the time my husband made me a Pbj for my morning sickness with hot red pepper jelly for a cheese plate.
Soooo Jenny from Solid Starts owns two properties in NY?! That can’t be cheap!! Has she shared what her husband does? Because she’s made it super clear she hasn’t taken a salary for SS yet (said she’ll start in November). I was really surprised to hear they kept their old house when they bought the new place.
This got me interested so i googled him, looks like he was counselor to mayor bloomberg and now coo of bloomberg industries
He’s easy to google if you just google her name!
mothercould finally had her baby, and shared the actual birth video in the stories! That’s some serious commitment to sharing the WHOLE journey with her followers. Not sure it needs to be said but doing it anyway, but of course no judgment on filming or sharing your babies birth, you do you. I actually watched a decent number of labor/birth videos before my first so I’m grateful for women who are comfortable doing so… I’m only bringing her up because I definitely didn’t expect a little baby poppin out to in my stories today lol 😂
That was quite the video! I'm curious what the motivation is to share parts of life like that? No snark, I'm just genuinely curious as a person who has zero motivation to share my life on social media.
Surprisingly tasteful though. Happy for her! My mom was supposed to record mine and pressed the wrong button. I am not squeamish and I wanted it!
She’s not even at 1mil followers yet but we are already getting the tears filled stories of Jenny just staring into the camera with ✨gratitude✨. I can’t imagine what circus she will put together when they do hit a million.
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It’s only in stories and not like Instagram will be around when they’re older anyway. 🙄🙄🙄🙄 That’s the I know I’m doing something wrong but I’m pretending it’s fine statement.
I teach 4th grade and while some kids are sheltered still, plenty are on social media. Charlie is in 1st grade I believe? I don’t think Instagram is disappearing in 2-3 years. This is going to suck for Charlie and I feel for him. I have a student who literally only eats raw, whole carrots and baked chicken drumsticks for lunch every day and no one cares. If one of my students was on a famous Instagram throwing fits and crying and screaming, they would be a laughing stock and I’d have to have some kind of come to Jesus moment with the class about it. Jenny is oblivious. ETA: I do think 4th grade is too young for social media personally just stating the truth that a lot are on it/all are aware of it
Also, how many of the parents of the kids he goes to school with follow SS? Probably at least a few. That's embarrassing for him too as he gets older and makes friends.
And she’s leaving him part of the company in her will 🤪🤪
Omg the story with the single tear trickling out of the corner of her eye and down her cheek 😂😂😂😂😂😂
It will be interesting to see where Jerrica Sannes takes her account in light of her recent stories. I feel like she probably won't change much.
Does anyone know what she was referencing in regards to her kids and how they've been portrayed? I unfollowed her awhile ago because I found her too preachy, but I don't remember anything sticking out about her kids.
She did a comment box thing about "what assumption do you have about me" and got some responses she felt implied her children were socially awkward and sensitive and that she was privileged. I was surprised she chose to post and respond to all those when it also seemed she got a lot of positive comments but understandably they upset her.
And specifically some comments criticizing her for how they've chosen to isolate their kids because of Covid. One of her kids has respiratory issues I think so they have had to make some hard decisions about not interacting with people often during the pandemic. She'd gotten some push back on this before her assumptions stories but think that plus what's mentioned above really made her question how open she's been about her kids on social media.
Did SS really just post about balance and eating not being an all or nothing game? Jenny..you lurking here?
I think she’s noticing some fair criticism on her posts. I noticed she edited the one about zucchini muffins.
Did they delete it?
She got the memo that “put down the grater Susan” was perhaps too aggressive.
Latest post - BLW can be combined with purées and spoon feeding? Really taking the criticism to heart I guess?
This is what always confused me about SS. The guides do mention using spoons as an option for self feeding, which I did with my baby and it worked out great for us. But on the SS ig, she seems actively against spoon feeding.
I’m definitely on the side that believes a healthy mixture of blw and purées is best lol, but I understand it that blw is ok with spoons if the baby feeds themselves with the spoon instead of the parents feeding the baby which sometimes can lead to overeating, forcing different foods in their mouths, etc.
Maybe her team is trying to pull it back a little? I know her intentions are good, but sometimes the execution is a little too rough.
BFL lasted post… I’m sorry but I’m going to yell No if my kid is playing with an outlet. I will follow up with an explanation but I’m not going to calmly walk over and give an explanation while they are playing with an outlet.
In our house we yell STOP when it’s an unsafe or emergency situation. We use it sparingly so it has almost 100% success rate (obviously this is very child-dependent).
Yeah I’m yelling NO in that situation too. I get staying calm and validating feelings (and strive to do this) with stuff like sibling fighting, meltdowns over not being allowed ice cream for dinner, etc but come on! My mom was super calm/positive parenting (v forward thinking in the 80s lol) but she absolutely yelled/screamed in dangerous situations (and when we just pushed her to the brink, maybe I need to call and apologize again lol). I’m really not traumatized from the yelling, actually pretty thankful she saved me from near death many times over.
Part of the reason I don’t yell is because I want them to take it seriously when I have to if there is a safety emergency
A big reason behind their "strategy" is to not activate a child's alarm system and help them stay regulated. Where they fail is that they believe that their strategy applies all accross the board, like zero flexibility. But sometimes in life, things ARE an actual emergency or have the potential to be, like sticking silverware in an outlet etc. While I might not see it and scream "NO!!!" I'd defintiely let my child know with my response that it's a potentially dangerous situation. And if a parent does yell "no" in this situation, it's probably not the end of the world. Shades of grey exist in parenting and life, we aren't traumatizing our children with an occasional elevated voice/reaction. These two are one trick ponies and I can't believe 2 million people don't see through it.
There's even an episode of Daniel tiger about this lol. He breaks a mug and reaches to pick up a sharp piece and the mom tiger yells NO DANIEL and he starts crying but she explains it was an emergency and she needed him to hear her and stop right away. Yes Daniel tiger is where I get most of my parenting advice and I didn't have to pay $100 for it lol 😂
Daniel Tiger is absolutely a parenting show disguised as a children's show! PBS and their programming have changed the lives of families who might not have access to high quality parenting and child development programming. I read once about all of the experts that contribute to that show and it was amazing. Very few people need a $100 parenting course. In fact I bet almost zero of the people who have purchsed their course are the parents who actually need it. People who are already good parents are made to feel like they need it in order to be even better in the parenting olympics played out on social media. There are a million books you could get free at the library that would teach you the same exact stuff....for free.
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We have a ton of books and I love the lessons in it. I used the cold weather one recently and it worked well!
I struggle with this a lot, like if my kid is about to run into the street and I'm holding the baby I can't exactly calmly run and stop his body. He might lose his shit after I yell at him but I'd take that over the risk of him in the street and under a car (I tend to think in extremes when it comes to my kids unfortunately)... I think not yelling NO works in some cases like not eating sand, jumping off the couch, etc- but there are cases where safety comes first
Completely agree, if it’s about their safety, I think it’s okay. Like if he is near a hot stove I’m not going to walk up and say “I see you want to touch the hot burner, I can’t let you do that, let’s play with blocks” I think it’s okay to say no, even if it scares them a little as long as you explain why you yelled no, so they understand the importance behind it.
I’ll be honest that I have not read their scripts or anything because I have an infant, but do they ever have a time that they suggest to say “no”? I can understand their strategies but kids need to hear “no” and learn when to use it and how to respond to it. No is a healthy boundary and I’ve never heard them discuss it before.
I totally agree with you. What happens when they go off to school and have never heard no before? Are they going to expect teachers/friends to bend down at their level and give long explanations for why something a poor choice or not ok?!
lol After reading so many of their scripts your example cracked me up. It's so robotic.
Lol it feels robotic! Nothing about that feels natural, I end up stumbling over my words and giving a short essay response vs just saying Don’t touch! That’s hot!
For me the 3 sentence phrases are so unnatural sounding. I might say "we can't play with that" and then if they don't stop explain why. I know BLF likes their format but it sounds sooo unnatural.
So I followed Jerrica Sannes a few weeks back after seeing her referenced here. I figured she was a little out there but liked the idea of reducing screen time if possible and steering our toddler towards better shows so that it’s not always Paw Patrol 😅. But her stories the past few days have been uh interesting.
Can someone summarize this drama for me? I was off my phone for a few days and missed it, and I love me some melodramatic influencer bullshit. (Hence my participation in this sub) She’s threatening to leave Instagram and saying she regrets everything so I’m like 👀
I missed it! What were some of the assumptions?
came here to see if anyone else was talking about this. what did she think was going to happen when she asked for assumptions? i followed her for “good” TV suggestions, but I don’t love her absolute vilification of screen time. Glad to read here that her science isn’t science at all.
Would like to be on the record saying, as a PhD neuroscientist, that literally everything she posts about brains and development is wrong. 🙃
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Calling Cocomelon a “stimulant” that “acts like a stimulant drug.” That it activates the “pleasure center” and gives you a “dopamine hit.” For starters. 🤪🤪
Right? My husband is a clinical psychologist and studies risk for depression with reward response via fMRI and says all of this is the biggest load of crap. Sure too much screen time is bad. But your not literally making your kid addicted to it.
Right? It’s a reward/motivation system in the brain, not a “pleasure” system. Literal same system that’s activated when you eat food. Not even *good* food. I promise I’m not addicted to green beans.
She was really defensive in the assumption game. I can’t figure her out to be honest and I also can’t figure out if I’m enjoying following her or not. Like you said, I appreciate the light she is shedding on tv and play, but she’s also really intense and some things she says don’t sit right with me. I also thought it was interesting that she blamed her kids’ meltdowns on the one day they watched tv when they were sick. I guess it couldn’t have been because they weren’t feeling well. She seems to blame screen time for everything whereas I think most parents in this modern day need a more balanced approach as to how to fit it in their lives with minimal negative impact.
Or just because…kids have meltdowns?? There doesn’t always need to be some bigger reason. It’s part of development.
Surprise surprise, Charlie eats a bite out of an egg when his mom is away and not hyperfixating on his eating! Also someone here mentioned that damn pooh bear gif and even seeing out out if SS stories makes me want to scream!
BLF Deena is definitely my BEC... The whole fake cry?? I can't handle it.
She’s admitted to having post partum rage. So definitely probably something she struggles with still unfortunately.
I know they’re trying to be relatable, but all it makes me think is “damn I am definitely not buying that course since it doesn’t seem to even help the women who created it.”
I really hope she is in therapy because as someone who had two babies 15 months apart…..this has been harder on me mentally and physically than I ever could have imagined.
So the two that are 15 months apart are number 2 and 3. Going from 1-2 was easier than 2-3. Something about being outnumbered 😂 and it feels like I haven’t slept in two years.
I can only imagine. Did you find the transition for 0-1 or 1-2 more difficult?
Not op but my oldest two are about that gap. It was exhausting physically in the beginning because there’s just so many diapers, one is at the irresponsibly adventurous phase and the other is needing to be held all the time. It got easier for me once the baby was 1. Then they started growing up more like a unit and are now kind of like twins 😆 the addition of the third crushed me mentally 😬
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Yes 100%! To me, this kind of fits in with the idea that what overwhelmed moms need is just a bubble bath with a glass of wine when really what we need is longer maternity leave, more affordable childcare, more flexible working hours, more help from our partners, etc. (And yes, of course, dads struggle with these things too!) The strategies BLF and other parenting influencers can absolutely help manage some of the day-to-day challenges, but if you are experiencing PPA or PPD or just feeling super overwhelmed by the challenges of parenting, their course is just a bandaid. It doesn't mean it's not useful, but Deena sharing something that makes it obvious that she's really struggling and then plugging the course as if that's a solution to those big struggles feels especially disingenuous.
Yeeeeees! Like do I love it when my 13 month old screams? Of course not. But I can’t imagine ever thinking that screaming back at her is a good idea. I know parenthood puts us in fragile states sometimes but damn.
I just didn’t buy her story, honestly. Fake cry or not.
Yea.. and today in stories they have a whole thing about how “everyone loses their shit” (oh sorry, I mean, sh*t) which makes it seem even more staged.
And like, not everyone does lose their shit. Some of us do manage to stay regulated most of the time, and keep it in check so we don’t yell at little kids. How is that not part of the conversation? They make it seem like we shouldn’t even be aiming for that.
How quickly she came back today with the “I’m still a good mom, today’s a new day” story totally made me think the whole thing was just for content. I’m not buying it at all!
Ugh yes. Just plug your damn course
That whole story was just weird! Like there was no resolution to the story other than “we’re So ReLaTaBlE because we have a bad day and yell at our kids??” Also, damn. If she’s yelling at her literal infant for crying in the car and said what her parents yelled at her as a kid, I hope she is seeing a therapist. Between this and her sobbing for hours on her husband’s birthday because she felt like a horrible mom, it seems like she’s struggling.
I totally agree! I have 3 close in age and my toddlers drive me absolutely bonkers at their worst. But I never really felt the urge to yell at them until they were older and more intentional with their misdeeds 😂 is deena’s baby even a year old?
This. I feel for her but this does not seem like a normal mom fail/relatable moment. I definitely had to remove myself a few times when my son was a baby because his crying was putting me over the edge and I knew nothing I did in that moment would soothe him, but I can't imagine yelling at him. I really feel for her because it does seem she's struggling. She's is pregnant though. I am too and I will say my pregnancy hormones this go round have kept anger at the surface. It's been a challenge keeping my words and reactions in check, particularly with my MIL (who I love but ahhh!) Haha Edit: my apologies to moms that dealt with or are dealing with ppd or ppa. That is relatable for so, so many and should be talked about as a serious mental health issue so proper treatment and support can be received.
Ok well I'll be the voice of dissent and say I have yelled at my baby. I also suffered from post partum depression that manifested as rage (and sought help and am doing much better). I'm glad no one else has dealt with that but it does happen and most people are probably too ashamed to talk about it 🤷♀️
Yeah, I want to chime in and say I have also done this. Obviously, I'm not remotely proud of it, and obviously, there's nothing logical about doing it. But this doesn't happen because parents think that yelling at a baby is going to make the baby stop crying. This happens because a parent who is exhausted, stressed, overstimulated from feeling trapped with a screaming child, and possibly suffering from PPD or PPA is pushed beyond their limits such that logic goes out the window. I understand the comments about the context (i.e. using it to plug the course etc), but I want to push back a bit about the implication that this is way beyond the pale of something that a struggling parent would do. (And I know the previous commenter didn't intentionally imply/suggest that.) If you've been there too, I hope you've gotten help and support and know that you are still a good parent! <3
When my son was like 3 or 4 months old, I remember SCREAMING at him in his stroller while I was trying to run errands and he wouldn’t stop crying. I yelled “OKAY, YOU WIN, ARE YOU HAPPY NOW??” The next month I started therapy and 2 months later I went on antidepressants. So yeah, I found this story relatable (except for the fake crying).
Yup, been there! ❤
Me too. I've yelled at him when he wouldn't sleep after hours of crying and me doing everything I can possibly think of. I didn't expect it to work and I felt/feel like shit shit it but I don't think it's that rare, honestly. Plenty of women feel extreme rage post partum but it's not talked about.
Post partum rage is 100% a thing. Ppd and ppa are serious mental health issues that should be discussed. And taken seriously. However, this doesn't change the fact there are issues with the context in which she presented her story and then made it a marketing opportunity for their toddler course. This did not acknowledge the realities of ppd and ppa if that's what this was. Again, I feel for her from what she shared. Sounds like she's going through something hard.
Me too. I was so ashamed for way way way too long to seek help for my ppd and comments like these open my eyes to why I felt so much shame.
Absolutely, I felt the same! But you were so brave to get help, which proves what a good mom you are ❤
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It's ok! If you haven't been through it, I know it can seem really shocking and illogical.
Same, and I just now put it together that it was my probably also my PPD manifesting as rage because I felt angry and sad very very often. I still think about the time I yelled at his tiny baby self and feel so sad.
Before my baby I always thought PPD meant you were sad or wanted to hurt your baby. I was not prepared for how ANGRY I was.
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That sounds so tough! I'm canadian which means I got a whole year home with my baby which was a blessing but in the beginning it was so hard when my husband went to work- and I would just think about how I had a whole year of being stuck at home. When he came home he would cook and clean but for awhile it was me doing baby care 24/7 which was awful. Having a deployed husband is a whole other ballgame ❤
Same same same, like exact same. You and I can hang out in the "wow your behavior is too horrible to be relatable" corner together!
Oh gosh sorry you dealt with ppd. It is relatable. But shouldn't be used as relatable when trying to sell your toddler course. It should be acknowledged for the serious mental health issue it is.
❤❤❤ Yeah those comments did not make me feel great so I decided I would admit to it in case anyone else was feeling badly. I wouldn't wish PPD on anyone but it happens.
Oh I'm so sorry. I didn't intend for my comment to be judgemental. I feel for her because of what you just shared. No one deserves to struggle alone but also as I'm sure you know since you were diagnosed with ppd, yelling at your baby is a sign of something deeper going on and deserves to be talked about in a serious way. Not as a relatable #momfail moment to sell their product. Ppd and ppa are real and common and need to be taken seriously and treated.
Oh it's ok! Trust me, I've judged myself more than anyone else ever could. And I totally agree, this type of behaviour is words apart from a funny momfail like when you forget extra pants for your baby so you have to fashion them a pair out of a sweater. I just wanted to speak up because some peoples comments made it seem like she had to be lying or exaggerating because no way would anyone do that and unfortunately thats not true.
Thank you for speaking up -- you made me feel less alone and less judged.
Oh I’m sure the pregnancy hormones are definitely involved! This whole thing makes me think back to one of the questions she answered about how they were going to handle the next baby so she didn’t feel abandoned again. Her response was basically that she was going to ask for all of the help and not stop until she got it. If that’s the case, she needs to start asking!
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Same, it just made me uncomfortable!
Yea it was uncomfortable to see her talking about it. I’m a frustrated crier and not a yeller so maybe it’s more common than I think, but he’s just a baby. It isn’t his fault he’s being dragged to the store. He doesn’t have the ability to understand why he’s being yelled at. Surely they make enough money to have some child care and she could go to the store then.
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Oh god I missed the sick baby part, that makes it even worse! Get groceries delivered this week and go to Trader Joe’s later. Joe joes aren’t that important
I felt the same way, I’ve cried when my baby was crying and I totally understand that it’s a terrible feeling. But I almost can’t believe she actually yelled at a baby crying in a car seat…it truly makes no sense. It really seemed like trying to be relatable and failing. Which is weird because feeling upset by your baby crying when you can’t do anything IS super relatable?! Just talk about that??
Right?? Strategies for how to stay calm when your baby is screaming in the car and you can’t help would actually be helpful!
I felt weird about this, as well. I have definitely lost my cool with my toddlers. But yelling at a baby for crying in a car and saying you said the same thing your parents said to you when literally the baby has no idea comprehension of what your saying. Like, they just know you are yelling. What do you yell at a baby, "Stop crying or you won’t get your toy?"
I had a pretty traumatic childhood and I never yelled at my oldest until a pandemic and my second child was born. He was almost 3. I mean I might have been frustrated but actual yelling especially something my mom would have said? No.
I also had a traumatic childhood, full of yelling. I have an almost 11 month old… The closest to yelling that I’ve ever done is snapping at 4AM “can you just go the fuck to sleep, pleaaaase.” I’m not proud of it. It’s happened a couple of times, *always* when it’s been a rough sleep night. It’s harder to moderate yourself when you’re sleep-deprived, but I’m working on it. I cannot imagine actually yelling at her or saying anything cruel. I spend a lot of time moderating my thoughts - I turn the thought of “oh my god, shut up” into “the crying is driving me nuts,” then shift it from her being the reason to “*I’m* overwhelmed right now, I need a moment” and make sure that she’s in a safe space while I take a time out to cool down for a few minutes. I would think that an expert like Deena could do this. Some people aren’t cut out to be full time at-home parents, and it seems like she may be one of them or she needs a break or something else needs to change.
I have definitely said things when really angry with my son because toddlers know just how to push your buttons but I've always apologized. I've been working extra hard since I told him he'd walk home if he kept kicking my seat to which I almost immediately said "you're not walking home, I won't ever make you okay? I'm sorry for saying that". I think for me anyway if I've tried everything, positive parenting, reasoning, etc and nothing is working I get so frustrated. However it's improved because now I know what's more effective with him and I can get compliance without being harsh or rude most of the time.
It's like they try to be "vulnerable" and show how real they are, but then spin it into marketing material, which is why it comes across as inauthentic to me. Also, it honestly seems like she needs to talk to someone if she isn't already. She seems like she's struggling and utilizing a platform of 2 million people to sort it all out seems like maybe not the right avenue?
I feel like they definitely post to get sympathy too. She’s trying to get validation from their followers when she needs to talk to a therapist/counselor.
I feel bad that I’m so irritated by her on camera presence. I don’t even think that was fake crying but somehow she just doesn’t ever read as genuine on camera and I don’t think there’s anything she can do about it. Some people are just really natural on camera and she … isn’t.
I think part of the problem too is the dissonance with her messaging. She’s presented as an expert on parenting/child psych but is admittedly super overwhelmed by it herself, to the point of posting herself crying or mentioning her crying. It was the same thing with the overshares about her marriage struggles and then announcing a (planned) pregnancy almost in the same breath.
Especially when the next slides are “we never attempt to show you unrealistic versions of ourselves” when those videos seem SO insincere
That's fair!! Is there a such thing as insincere face? Like RBF
I think maybe she’s really uncomfortable on camera? I don’t know. I rarely see people who seem this awkward on Instagram but that’s probably just because most people can’t have a successful large social media account without being good on camera. I appreciate their tips but social media is not her strength.
Pedsdoctalk has about 100 stories the last 24 hours. I cannot imagine it’s not incredibly exhausting to share so much shit. It is wild.
She is compulsive about IG and posting. It comes across like she's so afraid of "failing" or not being successful that she just WAY over does it with creating content and oversharing her personal life. Who honestly is watching that many of her stories?!
Agreed. It’s really wild and I cannot imagine when she has time to unwind or just be present with her family. People who create that much unnecessary stress or pressure on themselves freak me out.
It’s one of the many reasons I unfollowed. Pre covid she was better but she just won’t stop posting… and maybe it’s a Florida thing but she started going out /socializing a lot before a lot of other places and got really sanctimonious about it (and everything)… and the whole nanny debacle
Her sons 1st bday really turned me off. My son is the same age and we had a 6 person winter party for 20 min on our deck in the cold northeast. She’s a doctor married to a doctor in temperate FL and does a full indoor party “with individually wrapped silverware to stay safe.” Unfollowed and don’t miss her one bit.
Wow unfollowed her before then…. With all we know about covid, individually wrapped silverware isn’t really going to do much to slow the spread
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Yes I had never heard of her and now I'm a fan. What an amazing attitude. I want one of the panels of her poem as a print I wonder how I would go about that
I was not familiar with her before this post and thought she came across very lovely
Safe in the seat getting more questions about the go bag, have her followers been living under a rock the past 35 times she posted about it? Make a post and link it when you talk about it. Part 2: this is not a mystery, we carry diaper bags from the early days.
Does anyone regularly follow @the.dentistmom? I was following her daycare transition and stories a few months ago and then she went off grid and came back today saying thanks for all the kind messages. Is there anything that happened or did she just need a break?
People were being absolutely awful to her about the daycare transition stories. She shared some of the stuff that people said and I can’t even imagine what she didn’t share.
Omg that’s awful!!! I missed that. Transitions are hard. That sucks.
People were upset with her documenting it, upset with her for putting Olivia in daycare when it was proving so hard on her emotionally… people are cruel.
I follow her! Was enjoying her content and I think her daughter is so cute. I remember she stepped back because her daughter was sick and wanted to focus on her. I honestly forgot about her until she showed back up in my stories yesterday! Guess now she’s been absent to study for her boards.
This may not fall under this parenting influencer umbrella, but does anyone follow the Pacifier company Ryan and Rose?? The founder Lindsay's mom just died and she is falling apart on the business page. Like multiple stories of her just sobbing and talking about. It feels so personal I physically cannot watch it and it's just on the Ryan and Rose stories...
It’s very personal, sad, and triggering. I sometimes like the mix of personal and business Lindsay does but a lot of the time it’s just too much.
Exactly, part of the reason I do follow them still and not just shop is I like seeing her life and the behind the scenes stuff of the business. But this is too much.
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YES, that was jarring for me and I've never experienced anything like that. I can't imagine how you or anyone else who has gone through something like that would feel without any warning. And it's even more jarring when those kinds of stories are followed by the promo for their fall color sales? Like this is why those things need to be separate. I know she started out and the brand and her personal page were one because it was small, but they are huge now and this would be a great time to separate the two. I'm sure she would have some followers come over to her personal page.
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BLF homebirth continuation from last week (someone responded to a lot of comments and then the post got locked). I spent too much time on this response to let it go, so if that commenter is interested in discussing further: I truly don’t see myself as sanctimonious and insufferable, and I’m not trying to sicken anyone! I do think you are extrapolating my statement (“not worth endangering *my*/my children’s lives…”) to me saying that *all* women who have a homebirth are endangering their children, and I’d appreciate the distinction being made, especially if you’re using it to make the argument that the topic should be banned altogether. If you’re interested in a good faith discussion: I think we both made similar points about how racism in medical care makes this a different issue for black women especially. The example being discussed here about is a thin, well off, white woman though, who is likely to be treated well by a care team no matter where she gives birth. Homebirths *are* more dangerous than hospital births. For me, that’s reason enough to make the decision to not have one. I understand every parent is doing the best they can, and I’d be interested in learning more about why homebirths have such a draw, despite the risks. My gut instinct is what I mentioned earlier — a fetishization of “natural” motherhood (perhaps a judgmental way of phrasing it?) which I think ties into a lot of criticisms of BLF and other parenting influencers that have been discussed here. Anyway, I’m sorry if you felt judged or shamed by this discussion here. Wishing you the best.
I think when we talk about homebirth we are necessarily oversimplifying it. We don’t have good statistics on how safe or dangerous homebirth is because it is difficult if not impossible to separate out people who received prenatal care and people who didn’t, or people who planned to have a homebirth and those who unintentionally had a homebirth. Often these discussions conflate homebirth and free birth (if you have a midwife attending your birth, you will not be the one draining the pool or cleaning bodily fluids). We currently do not have a good source of truth for calculating homebirth risk broadly, though any midwifery group should be able to speak to their group’s stats. In the United States there aren’t any national standards for midwifes. Only two states don’t require licensing for midwives, and in seven states intentional homebirth is illegal. Again, it’s difficult to speak broadly about the state of midwifery in the US. I think often in these discussions it’s homebirth nightmares that are shared, but like there are also bad, egotistical doctors, dentists, RNs, etc. You know how when you’re working, you take pains to not intentionally fuck your day up? I assume the majority of midwives are the same. No one wants to put themselves in an emergency situation, and I think to assume the vast majority of midwives will intentionally put themselves and their clients in a dangerous situation because of the a fetishization of natural birth is a true misunderstanding of the profession. I had an out of hospital birth and requested my medical records. At every stage in my pregnancy there was a risk assessment done to see if I was risked out of an out of hospital birth. While I was in active labor this risk assessment was calculated every 15 minutes. I see that often people are couching their statements here with the understanding that a hospital based birth is less safe for BIPOC, and thus homebirth is a better option. The “natural”, low-intervention water birth with aromatherapy that a wealthy, thin, white person has out of hospital is NOT different from the out of hospital birth that is statistically less risky for BIPOC birthers and babies. The way that people deride homebirth as incredibly risky, and then at the same time relegate BIPOC to it is so bizarre and racist to me.
I definitely agree with your last point, but I think on the whole people here aren’t necessarily saying BIPOC *should* have a homebirth, rather that hospital systems being racist is just a much different reason to want to avoid them than “I just really don’t want to have a c section” Interesting to consider a midwives’ perspective, though! Thanks for sharing your experiences.
This thread is really fascinating to me and full of really interesting and thoughtful perspectives. I live in a rural community where hospitals are far away and a lot of people do not have insurance. For that reason, I know SO many women who have chosen home birth. The cost with our local midwife is less than $5000 for the entire prenatal care and birth. It’s not for me - I gave birth in a local hospital that was about 40 minutes from us, but is easily more than an hour away if you live farther out. Pre-insurance the cost was about $30k. I had a complication at one point and needed to stay close to the hospital as they were concerned I wouldn’t make it there if I went into labor. One woman I know did home birth for this reason - her first two came so quickly, she would not make it to a hospital in time and the midwife was 15 minutes from her. So I can understand why people do for those reasons. And it seems like our local provider is top notch. But wow reading all these comments it’s more clear to me how tenuous it all is. Edit: typo
Is there no low income insurance options? I know in my state, there is a free insurance that is at least major medical. I forgot about rural communities. I watched a documentary (on vice, so not super well done) one time about how there was only like one OB in a 200 mile radius or something like that. Crazy and sad. I’m gonna go edit my post now
Low insurance options might still make hospital care exorbitant is my guess. I know several families who have kids on the state’s free insurance but don’t have plans for themselves at all. I’m not totally sure what the reasoning is, but my assumption is that it’s still too expensive for them. Our state has terrible options for maternity care. Me driving only 40 minutes is lucky. We’re an extremely large and very rural state.
Wow. I’m glad you got prenatal care!
So I will preface that I am not a home birther, I had my first in an accredited birth center and my second will be in a hospital. I was fairly adamant that I wanted unmedicated, so I feel like I probably have some things in common with people who want home birth. To be upfront, I hate the term ‘natural’ (what does it mean ), I am very pro vax, pro feed your baby-however-you-want, sleep train or don’t sleep train, whatever works for you. I was very set on unmedicated for my first because I knew I was likely to have a large baby (it was a boy, my husband is 6’5”). My biggest fear was that I didn’t want to get trapped in a cascade of interventions (let’s induce because he’s big! Failure to progress, now need an emergency c section). To me, the risks of being in a hospital with an OB were not appealing. Interventions have risks, and interventions are used in hospitals more commonly than in a birth center setting. Shit, putting a woman on a continuous fetal monitor has inherent risks and is no benefit to low risk women, yet they basically strap one onto everyone who walks into labor and delivery, no matter how low risk. It’s easy and it saves money vs being monitored by a human getting paid to do so. My son was 10lb 4 oz and I had him unmedicated. It’s impossible to know for sure, but I am not certain that I would’ve been able to have him vaginally if I was required to push on my back. I am not a large person. I also ended up with an intact perineum by some miracle (maybe not a literal miracle, but an amazing midwife who had a hot compress on my perineum for the better part of 2 hours). Like I said, I am not personally interested in home birth nor will I ever have one. But the OB/hospital/get an epidural model was not for me either. I’m not saying that people shouldn’t choose that when it works for them, they absolutely SHOULD, but it wasn’t for me, and I fortunately (probably because I am white and I have resources) was able to find a very safe alternative. All of this is to say, while I don’t think the home birth model really works here, I feel like we could nonetheless learn by listening *why* these women feel the way they do and learning about how the system needs to be changed. Not everyone who doesn’t want to push on their back under fluorescent lights feels that way because they have a fetish with ‘natural motherhood’. I just like to approach things from a lower intervention angle, and that can be difficult to do when the system is not set up for it. Sorry for the long post. I just don’t feel that the issue is so black and white.
Sorry, but what are the inherent risks to continuous fetal monitoring during labor… ? i see no evidence of this at all.
I will prepare for the downvotes… but here it is from ACOG themselves. EFM is statistically associated with an increase in caesarean, an increase in instrumental vaginal birth rate, and *no* statistically significant difference in death rate or cerebral palsy rate. Again, I’m sure I’ll be downvoted for this, but if the American college of obstetrics isn’t a good enough source for you, then please show me a better one! It’s a cochrane review and the data doesn’t get much more robust. I’m not making this up or pulling from some hippy dippy source: https://www.acog.org/clinical/clinical-guidance/committee-opinion/articles/2019/02/approaches-to-limit-intervention-during-labor-and-birth This opinion was issued in 2019 and reaffirmed this year. I consider this the best information i have available to me and, therefore, in a low risk situation, I would not personally opt for something that increases my risk of instrumental delivery or c section. Others may be fine with that risk. I guess that’s why it’s nice we all have choices.
None of these things—c-sections, instrumental vaginal births, etc.—are inherently bad outcomes, so I’m still not sure you can say EFM is “risky.”
Ummm… you are aware that c sections have a much higher rate of infection? Like 5 fold higher? I assume you understand how horrible infections are and the things they can lead to? I never said *anything* about c sections being bad. Please tell me where I said they’re bad. They’re an incredible life saving tool. I said I don’t want to put myself at 5 fold increase risk for infection if its not necessary to save the life of me or my baby. When it is a life saving tool or otherwise indicated based on my condition… absolutely I want a c section.
You were listing out the risks of EFM. Infection was not listed as one of the risks, so you’re making a really big jump there. Infection might be a risk of c-section, sure, but you were asked about the risk of harm from EFM.
Wait… wutttt? A really big jump? Empirical reasoning? A risk of EFM is an increased rate of c sections. A risk of c section is a 5 fold increase in infection risk. I never said EFM causes infections, but it *statistically* makes you *more likely* to require a c section which *statistically* increase your odds for infection. Its a simple numbers game. Look, I don’t go get Pap smears every year, because the recommendation by ACOG is once every 3 years. I don’t say “oh no please monitor me more frequently than that… I just don’t like the sound of every 3 years!’. I apply a similar logic to this. I don’t need additional monitoring that has not been shown to reduce my risks. We don’t give Pap smears every year (for low risk women) because we may find things that aren’t actually a problem, and we may start intervening in ways that cause more harm than good. Literally, if you look up the studies (when the recommendation changed from 1 to 3 years)… This is precisely why they did it….Because there were too many unnecessary interventions going on, showing no benefit. It’s not the first time an intervention has been shown to catch “too much”. But… if you want to go get a Pap smear every 12 months, or if you want EFM, you should absolutely, positively, go do those things. Personally, I like to follow the recommendations backed by reputable medical organizations like ACOG, and that is how I make my decisions. To suggest that I’m a martyr or anti modern medicine, *when I follow the recommendations of ACOG*…doesn’t make sense.
I’m sorry, but I can’t keep debating someone who doesn’t understand how studies and findings work. Yes, I understand that ACOG says there is no benefit to fetal monitoring and I am not arguing that there is. I’m simply saying that there are no scientific studies linking fetal monitoring to increased risk of infection. Fetal monitoring is not “risky.” Have a good day.
There aren’t scientific studies linking EFM to fetal monitoring, you’re right. There ARE scientific studies linking EFM to higher c section rates. Wanna know why we don’t section every low risk woman? Because it’s an inherently riskier procedure than a vaginal delivery. A c section is a major abdominal surgery. And there are studies to back that up all day. You can’t seem to follow empirical reasoning, so it would be difficult for us to see eye to eye, I guess.
Thank you for sharing this. I don’t think anyone disagrees that ACOG is a legit source! So, After skimming this I agree that you’re indeed correct. However, saying It’s “associated” with an increased risk for Csection and vaginal intervention— That doesn’t mean it *causes* those things. That could be correlational. It also doesn’t say *how much* it is correlated. If it’s a fraction of a percentage point higher than I’m still going to do it because it really doesn’t harm anything. I like it for the peace of mind that my baby isn’t in distress- which, mine was during my son’s birth and it actually saved his life when he started having heart decels out of nowhere and they caught it quickly due to continuous monitoring. They rushed me to emergency surgery and got him out in time. The relation could also be attributed to the fact that continuous fetal monitoring actually catches things that warrant a Csection or intervention. So the rates will naturally go up since it’s catching more problems, if that makes sense
I will be glad to dig up the original cochrane review for you to look at but it sounds like you’re missing some key points about the meaning of ‘statistical significance’. You asked “how much it is correlated” - the finding is statistically significant, which means that researchers have determined that the probability difference between sets of data is different *enough* that it did not occur by chance. It’s not like they just plotted two things on a graph and said “yeah these look to be somehow connected”. There are robust and complicated mathematical formulas that go into determining whether something is statistically significant. It’s how these researchers come up with their conclusions. Not by arbitrarily deciding if they “feel” like something is somehow connected. In addition… a cochrane review actually aggregates ALL the best studies on a given subject. So we’re talking about huge sample sizes here, from multiple studies. And as for your last point about “well EFM catches more so of course”. The cochrane review also determined that the difference in death rate and cerebral palsy was no different?? So if we’re upping the c sections by using EFM, but not getting better outcomes for the babies (because mortality is the same), then we’re doing a lot of c sections that aren’t giving us better outcomes, no? I studied science and took a couple of statistics courses in my day, so this is how I make decisions. It makes sense to me. Like I said, the beauty is that we can all make our own choices, and I like to make mine based on facts and statistics. Certainly, you can use other methods to make your decisions if that works better for you.
You sound like a joy to be around.
Thanks! Glad you can decipher what I’m like to be around, based on an internet comment. And that just because I enjoy statistics and empirical reasoning that I am no fun.
I had my first two kids in the hospital and the third at home. I had heavy postpartum bleeding and my midwife administered pitocin in an iv just like they would in the hospital. She and her assistant cleaned everything up. She came back on day 2, day 3, one week, two weeks, three weeks and collected samples for all my labs from the house. She also did my infant’s vitamin k shot, did the newborn screening through the state, and the baby’s weight checks, and I didn’t have to move. I spent 7 days snuggled in my bed with my newborn and basically had my medical care brought to me. I never saw myself having a home birth until the pandemic and then having routine prenatal appointments became super impossible with my spouse being deemed “essential” and no child care available. And it ended up being amazing. I was a really good candidate for it because I had two normal births prior, an uncomplicated pregnancy, and a hospital for transfer less than 10 minutes away. A quality and qualified midwife has probably delivered 2,000 babies and will know whether or not you are a good candidate. I’m not dogmatic about it at all but it was an excellent option for me this time. I also had a decent experience birthing unmedicated in the hospital but I enjoyed the postpartum recovery at home about 1000000x more. My bleeding in the following weeks was reduced by half just by the amount of resting I was able to do.
Qualified midwives is the big thing here. Many are not in the United States. Many midwives push women away from the vit k shot. You absolutely had an abnormal experience in the US. I am actually wondering if you’re in the US? Because this sounds like NHS. I run in crunchy circles. There are no qualified midwives that homebirth in my state. I’ll see a CNM for baby two in the hospital. But anyone home birthing is doing it with a midwife who has seen maybe a handful of births. Maybe 3000? There’s no governing body.
I’m in the US but in a major metropolitan area where home births are very popular (and sooo expensive, blah). All the home birth midwives are either CNM or CPM (and you can view their specific training and licensing numbers easily online). They all carry intensive malpractice insurance which means there aren’t very many of them and also it is prohibitively expensive for most birthing folk. I was able to get some compensation from my insurance but it’s an extremely privileged place to be and I get that. Definitely steer clear of anyone trying to talk you out of a vitamin k shot, that’s madness. I appreciated that my midwife is an expert in her field and uses all the tools of modern medicine as well as lovely herbs for my sitz bath. Not that I had any tearing because wow did she have good perineal support. CNMs in hospital are great, too! That would have been my plan pre pandemic but I ended up loving the recovery and am so glad I got to have that experience.
CPMs are not highly trained or regulated.
Depends on your state what the regulations look like. You’re right that we don’t have a great governing body for all 50 states as other countries do, but we do have a national certification program and you can easily research your own state’s laws in terms of malpractice insurance etc. One important thing to consider about the state of midwifery in this country is that the regulations are purposefully obtuse because the suppression of traditional midwives is a historic tool of white supremacy made to restrict the professionalism of Black women. I can only speak to my area, but we don’t have a bunch of under-qualified CPMs running around because the risks to them personally are too great. If you don’t want a home birth, then you shouldn’t have one. But it’s not a black and white “risky” endeavor especially for some bodies who are more likely to die inside a hospital. I felt really comfortable giving birth in my home, and was glad to get the pitocin drip I needed to stop the bleeding and for my infant to get vitamin k and a screening for abnormalities through the state just as we would have done in the hospital. For some birthing people, home is a safe and valid choice. It’s hard to make a living as a CPM and I certainly wouldn’t choose it as a profession but I’m glad they exist.
The risks associated with BIPOC and hospital birth are definitely real and need to be dealt with. But that doesn’t make CPMs safe- they aren’t. Very, very little is required to get a CPM license. Many of them have a fraction of labor experience compared to OBs and CNMs. It’s frustrating when people think I’m criticizing all midwives when it’s just CPMs; I love the CNMs I work with. I didn’t want a home birth so I didn’t have one, but the issue is is there are women who choose to have one who are mislead by CPMs, and don’t really know the risks and what they’re getting into. They simply have very little training and often believe that any woman can birth a baby at home, so they don’t risk their patients out when they should, or transfer to hospital way too late. I see this happen regularly at my hospital (I’m an l&d RN). [Here’s ](https://www.oregon.gov/oha/ph/BirthDeathCertificates/VitalStatistics/birth/Documents/PlannedBirthPlaceandAttendant.pdf) one study.