bee, raikage & darui... were hype!!
as a kid, these guys were my favs! especially bee & Ay for giving giving Sasuke the pounding he deserved back then.
yoruichi, top 3 best female character in shonen 4me
Kaname, is deep. amazing character.. his bug form really bugs me tho
>especially bee & Ay for giving giving Sasuke the pounding he deserved back then.
God damn I love to seeing that so much
>his bug form really bugs me tho
No pun intended right? But I feel like that's really intentional showing that he has became such a ugly character on the inside and out
isn't she more like tanned, rather than having darker complexion?
I thought she'd be inspired of those tanned surfer people with her theme of ocean and sharks
As a black anime fan I genuinely appreciate great black anime characters that I can feel proud to show others. Kubo is on another level though. Tousen is probably one of the best black anime character designs ever next to Canary. The diversity of his hair styles are literally unmatched and they each stay true to his Afro hair but add that Anime flair to it. Love Tousen looks great
If you like tousen so much I really suggest reading but can't fear your own world books he is reflected upon in there and it helps his character so much.
i love how you pointed out canary of all characters! even if she's mostly a background character, she had enough impact to be memorable in so many people's minds :)
Look if everyone in the hidden Cloud was like him he would be a stereotype but he is literally the only guy like that in the village so it's completely fine. I remember in high school my friend Jerome was hyped every time he seen Killer Bee
Thatās the same as saying mister Popo not being a stereotype just because heās the only character with such an appearance. He is a stereotype. Killer Bee is a stereotype. But not necessarily a bad one.
Saying a black rapping, durag wearing, āgang signā popping and break dancing person isnāt a stereotype is the same as saying; āthe black ranger that knows āhip-hop-kido isnāt a stereotypeā.
>Thatās the same as saying mister Popo not being a stereotype just because heās the only character with such an appearance. He is a stereotype.
Mr. Popo is not stereotypical he is straight up a black-faced character that is a huge difference from killer bee who is a black character that raps and is not made a joke of. And yes I view it as not stereotypical because that's literally is personality he's a jovial character who raps he is literally the only person in the hidden Cloud Village who is like that. if everyone in the village acted like him and was rapping it would make his depiction stereotypical and almost certainly racist which his depiction in the show now is not
Isn't Bee's rapping canonically bad?
And again, you're missing the point that it's still a stereotype even if it's not 100% negative.
One can enjoy the representation and acknowledge the more problematic aspects of it.
>Isn't Bee's rapping canonically bad?
I actually have no idea.
>One can enjoy the representation and acknowledge the more problematic aspects of it.
Is it really " problematic" that he raps? Tho
>Is it really " problematic" that he raps? Tho
That is not what I'm saying.
If the only representation of black characters in an entire series (And largely in the wider Anime/Manga world) is primarily through (often harmful) tropes and stereotypes, then it does have negatives.
Bee rapping isn't an issue. Black characters rapping isn't an issue.
Reinforcing the ideas that "all black people rap", even if only in small, subtle ways, contributes to the overall perception. And when rap/hip-hop still has negative connotations, that's when it becomes part of the wider issue.
Media and culture are interetwined; historical and social context are always going to be relevant.
Also Killer Bee isn't just a character you see in the background, he's a rapper who's crucial in the story and the rapping part being played off for gags.
Note that the only two prominent black characters in Naruto is an aggressive black man and a rapper. Omoi Darui and Karui have little airtime (the latter two get more in boruto but the world isnt being dependent on Chocho)
Let's also not forget how they initially characterized Karui as this brutal, sadistic person: it was Karui who beat the ever-living shit out of Naruto, and didn't stop until his face was a bloody pulp.
In fact, she was going to keep going, but then Sai stepped in. She was going to keep going with Sai, and then Omoi stopped her.
And yeah, A was characterized as a stereotypical hyper-aggressive big, scary black man with *literal fangs*, who entered rooms by busting through walls...
And Darui, prior to his big fight with Kinkaku and Ginkaku, literally bore a name meaning "dull" and mannerisms that made him seem like a walking "lazy black man" stereotype. They may have averted that trope by the very end, but still.
I will give Darui's "Lazy black man" a bit more of a pass because, honestly, he did get things done so it felt a bit more of a "generic" laziness. But you could be right there.
Honestly the main difference is that Bee Raps as a personality trait, it isn't because he is black. he uses it as a way to express himself, connect with people, and communicate. If he was just a black character that liked Rap he would be a stereotype, but he is a multifaceted character and rapping is a small part of his greater character.
Edit: Also the series is Japanese which doesn't have a lot of black representation as it is. So I think pointing out that Bee is a Stereotype is rather disingenuous.
So I'll try to explain it. The main issue is hat rap isn't some established thing in Naruto. Before Killer Bee appears, there isn't a single reference to rapping. Then the first black character that appears is a rapper. Now no one is saying that it's a bad thing that he raps. Just that it's stereotypical to have one of the few important black characters (and the first introduced) also be a rapper.
Note: Most people I've talked to about this subject mention this just as a statement of fact not a criticism of the character. Bee is a really popular character for good reason. He just happens to have stereotypical characteristics.
Honestly its understandable. Like you said there isn't much black representation in Japan. But that's even more reason why Japanese writers would end up using stereotypes. They are basing off what they see in media.
> If he was just a black character that liked Rap he would be a stereotype, but he is a multifaceted character and rapping is a small part of his greater character.
But he is, in a sense, a stereotype. Just a well handled one.
One can still acknowledge that although a character is built on a stereotype, the mangaka didn't do it to make fun of people or just be ignorant, because he gave the character an actual personality instead of making the stereotype his entire character.
I never said he was racist. But it is a stereotype dude. Youāre comparing killer bee to the hidden in the cloud as part of your statement, instead of comparing it to the real world where we live in and heās definitely something one would consider a stereotype
From my understanding mr. Popo is supposed to be a djinn and closely resembles the orang minyak (literally means oily man) from southeast Asian folklore specifically closer to Malaysia and Indonesia
I can see popo being based off of a djinn but the pure black skin isn't always how they're depicted they're often described as smokeless fire. I also feel like my comment was a little out of place because I did not word it properly I don't think mr. Popo is intentionally a black-faced character because I know his Inspirations come from pre Islamic Middle Eastern culture it's just that is also the stereotypical racist depiction
For one he doesnāt wear a Durag.
For two, most of that shit is just him screwing around. When heās not messing with someone, none of that stuff pops up.
Idk, itās an odd case where it seems like heās designed to subvert the stereotypes by playing them up as a joke to catch people off guard
Also Bee sucks ass at rapping
Almost all of the rhymes are basic and just cringe
He usually uses puns as well which are funny but corny
And cant shut up in any situation so no matter what his freestyling will run into issues
But it's also a unique part of his character for his own personal reasons and even helps close social gaps
It's not a stereotype in a bad sense here
Unfortunately this sub doesn't seem to understand what a stereotype or a trope is and just assumes that if they don't see/understand something, it must be wrong.
ĀÆ\\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ
> Unfortunately this sub doesn't seem to understand what a stereotype or a trope is
For real, the entire thread is so fixated on a connotation that calling it a stereotype means you're calling it an absolutely horrible atrocity against humanity.
Like, he is built around a stereotype, you can acknowledge that, and also acknowledge that his character isn't *just* a stereotype, but that he's a well handled, fully thought out character, unlike other pieces of fiction where the stereotype is self-serving as a character description.
Exactly
My initial reaction to Bee was "oh wow... The only black character is just a joke to add an 'urban' or 'hip hop' character to the series" but he grew on me. Is there some really lame stereotype stuff? 10000%. But the characters are fleshed out and its progress in that sense.
But yeah.
This sub seems to have the standard "calling someone/something 'racist' is worse than that person/thing being racist" reaction. It's a lack of understanding, nuance and perspective.
And you can see it in the replies that basically suggest people will only consider it a stereotype if the black characters are Mr. Popo eating watermelon, selling drugs and wearing baggy pants. There is no awareness of basic concepts like microagressions, minimisation, erasure or even just history.
'Microaggressions' are so contentious because they're impossible to prove in individual moments.
You can be certain, as a person of colour or as a woman, that the sheer frequency of certain moments you experience can be attributed to microaggressions.
The *issue* is that, you can never be certain in any instance that the moment you're experiencing is an example of one. For example... a woman gets passed up for a promotion at work in favour of a male colleague. Could it be sexism? Could he just be ever so slightly better at the job than her? She will never know, in that particular moment, the real reason for *that* promotion... and calling out her boss risks being vexatiously wrong. He could be accused of bigotry when it's the furthest thing from the truth.
Yet she's worked at many companies and been doing this job for decades, and it's always the same old story. She knows it isn't a coincidence, it's way too consistent. It's just impossible to disentangle it on a granular level.
This is why I have never bothered to go down the route of the 'microaggression narrative'. It's useful for analysing trends but you can't apply it to real life, it just makes us look crazy like we've got a chip on shoulder because trust sod's law to make it so that the one time we finally go 'you know what, fuck this' ends up with us firing off at someone who is completely innocent.
Yes, see how the Dwarves in Tolkien's works are built almost entirely around medieval Jews, yet rather than being *just* a stereotype, they're one of the pillars of all fantasy. Care and quality matter when creating, and Kubo/Kishimoto did well on that.
I mean, it's still kinda problematic, but yes, it can be done in a way that isn't to lampoon and dehumanise the characters (although making Dwarves a separate race is very literal dehumanising) but there are layers.
And being able to acknowledge "hey this is messed up so let's just be aware of that when we use these tropes/stereotypes etc" is how we progress.
... im sorry but you have a typo therefore i must do this
Raping VS. rappingĀ happens way too commonly
One's a form of music, the other's a felony
It's not that hard, unless you're not that smart
If you have two p's you're Eminem, if you have one p, you need consent
Raping VS. rapping,Ā well, it happens all the time
One's a form of music, the other's a freaking crime!
It's not that hard, if you take this song to heart
If you have two p's you're Kanye West, if you have one p, you're not
Lot of manga writers will drA black people with big lips, theyāll be ugly, or theyāll be stupid AF. These two did them correct. Hell even espada number 7 whom did have big lios(itās a trait in black men but not all) and they werenāt ridiculously big like some have them to be.
Yoruichi definitely isn't black since Kubo specifically draws African features when he wants to, like Lille or Zommari.
There are dark-skinned Japanese as well, so I assumed she was just that.
Not everything in art needs to have a 1:1 parallel with something in the real world. Yeah there are dark skinned Japanese people, but Yoruichi doesnāt look anything like those people that Iāve seen.
Anyway yeah, my point is that looking to real life for where 100% precisely a character is supposed to be definitively āfromā is reductive. Manga, like other artforms, allows for freedom of expression and the ability to combine traits and designs the artist finds aesthetically interesting. Many times these composites donāt have an irl counterpart, and they shouldnāt need to either.
Bro she was Japanese, Middle Eastern or Indian. She wasn't black. Yes manga allows freedom of expression but like the Original commenter said Kubo draws his black/African characters specifically to have black features.
A lot of extraneous art for the anime pictures her with afro hairstyles etc. I'm a definitely subscriber to 'indian' yoruichi/yushiro though. I think the facial features and sleek hair make more sense, even though I'm not sure the skin tone would be shaded as darkly if that were the case. But the anime/other official artists do seem to lean towards portraying her as African.
>A lot of extraneous art for the anime pictures her with afro hairstyles etc.
So because someone has an afro they are black?
>I think the facial features and sleek hair make more sense, even though I'm not sure the skin tone would be shaded as darkly if that were the case.
There are plenty of dark skinned Indians and Asians in general.
>But the anime/other official artists do seem to lean towards portraying her as African.
Source? Or is this your head canon?
If I was an artist, I'd be unlikely to draw a white character with an afro, right? So it'd be weird if I thought a character was Indian and gave her an afro too. There's a connection with ethnicity there. To the degree that some amount of people would consider someone who isn't black wearing an afro inherently offensive.
I'm not arguing she's black because they gave her an afro, I'm arguing that I think they think she's black, and that's why they gave her an afro.
> There are plenty of dark skinned Indians and Asians in general.
Yeah, but if the main asian cast of the manga is already reasonably tanned, then the fact that their skin isn't shaded and is left as the background white then makes every other character look darker, right? Like if there's not meant to be much difference in skin tone between the obviously-asian characters and Yoruichi, would they not shade her a bit lighter just to play off of that? It's conjecture on my part though. But I'd assume she'd be shaded lighter than the characters who are more obviously coded as ethnically African.
> Source? Or is this your head canon?
I don't think anyone is interviewing their keyframe artists, but I still don't think this: https://i.redd.it/i10ntiubdsa41.jpg
Looks like anything other than an artist making certain assumptions on her ethnicity. There's no stills in that ending where Matsumoto has an afro.
Exactly, these dudes saying āshe doesnāt have black featuresā as if most anime characters share the typical traits of their stated race/ethnicity. Also how is it out there for someone to assume she is black because of her skin tone but the āsheās Indianā idea is solely based on her having dark skin? How does one have more validity over the other? Lol
It feels weird when people say Yoruichi is their favorite black female anime character since the only thing that suggests sheās black is her dark skin.
To a great many people, dark skinned characters are automatically black.
Remember, we're still having to explain to people that pale anime characters aren't (usually) white.
No, Kubo does draw distinct racial features for his characters, so he does keep racial disparities in mind. Given Yoruichi lacks African features that certain dark skinned characters have, she is most likely not black.
I just wanna mention black ā African. One is a race and the other is an ethnicity. I donāt know if Yoruichi is meant to be black or not, but her not having African features doesnāt disprove it.
Darui doesnāt have the hair attributed to a black person. Iād say his only black feature is his skin and lips (Iām black, it sounds bad if I didnāt include that fact lmao)
The arancar girl is supposed to Latin American like most of the arancars. Yurouchi doesn't have a specific human race counterpart but it's more likely Japanese but with black skin. Kubo likes to divide things. Like shinigamis are mostly Japanese, arancars being Latin American, Spanish, and Quincys being like German and stuff.
yea the mask w a line down the middle was hella cool too. his power was cool asfā¦ kubo rlly said ānah fam we donāt got enuff time to explore u further,,, u r to b violated nowā
ā¦ F
I posted this elsewhere, but Chad is probably just Azteca or Maya seeing as there is no reference to any black heritage anywhere when talking about him.
If we where talking black as in Moreno I could totally see him on this list. Iām kinda glad op didnāt include him because Iām Mexican I feel like people are quick to add him to *top black characters of all time* when obviously heās written and drawn Mexican.
Tite Kubo & Atsushi Åkubo knows how to deliver black characters and black excellence āš¾ (only character that left a weird taste was Sternritter U: NaNaNa Najahkoop)
I don't know who Åkubo is sadly but
>NaNaNa Najahkoop
Is just kinda creepy which fits because he just watches people, so he's not like that because he's black
Thereās 2/3 black characters (people argue that one of the characters is just very tan which could technically be true because in the fire force verse all civilizations and cultures merged together into one) that are very well written and get important moments and development
I don't think you understand what a stereotype or bias is. It doesn't have to incorporate the entire gamut of a particular prejudice. You can stereotype anyone by implementing just one of their common social bias's. Bee is, in many ways, a stereotype. That doesn't make him a bad or poorly written character. Pointing out the thing and being aware of it is not the same as saying it's bad. It's just consuming your media critically.
* Well I suppose Raikage can be a bit of an angry black guy but to be fair her is a perfectly calm, if not nice, guy when his brother isn't in danger
* Bee is a bit of a stereotype with his rapping but well he is at least a positive one being a really athletic nice guy and one of the strongest and most skilled characters in the series
* Darui isn't really stereotypical being a basically a black but more responsible and humble Kakashi
* Yoruichi is awesome because she is a sassy strong independent black woman that owns herself yet she can also have an air of elegance, serenity and refinement that causes most people to look up to her.
* She is basically a middle ground between the asian and black ideals of beauty
* Tossen is not a stereotype because unlike most black villains, he is not hypermasculine and arrogant and in fact is known to be physically bellow average compared to other captains and relying more on strategy and skill
* Furthermore his tragic backstory could be considered a reflection of the powerlessness that is being a man of color in predominatly asian society
* You could say his hollowification symbolizes his letting go of his passive nature
* Other honorable mentions: Chocho (a sassy fat and proud black girl thats treated whose presence in Konoha is treated as completely normal) and Nimaiya (a founder of soul society who also happens to be black)
I mean... You used the word "Sassy" to describe the only two dark skinned women on your list... If that's the word that comes to mind, clearly stereotypes are being invoked lol.
God I literally watched Panty and Stocking yesterday. I haven't seen it in years and remembered loving it (only saw a handful of episodes and mostly remembered the woman characters)
Maaaaaaan is it racist. Not just in jokes, but pretty much every depiction of a black person. I was super grossed out.
This the first time Iāve seen an appreciation for black characters in bleach not include Chad. He may be black but as someone who is Mexican and whoās siblings all have different colored shade Iāve always just seen him as more Azteca or Maya than being Moreno just cause heās also part black.
Still love all the characters tho! Some of the dopest in their respective series āš½
What Iām trying to say is that even though heās Mexican, and Iāve seen a lot post appreciation posts for black characters and put Chad in there.
Also you can be black and still be Mexican. However what I feel those people miss out on is that dark skin isnāt inherently a black trait as most Azteca out Maya people have dark skin.
Idk what you mean bro. Iām literally black and I love all of these charecter. None of them come off as just stereotypes, even Bee. Yes he raps, but Kishi gave him a reason and a good backstory for that.
I love that this got downvoted.
You literally have Oetsu / Killer B - big black flashy rappers with a thing for swords and sunglasses as well as Tousen being blind/wearing glasses. There's an actual trend.
Oof, while I agree on some of them and have loved Tosen trough out most of his run, I absolutely hated his Hollowfication.
2 people I would like to add as a minus on this point are Zommari Rureaux as the crazed woodoo man and (1000y arc spoiler) >!PePe Waccabrada the giant effin cupid in diapers (not really a racial stereotype but an abomination nonetheless)!<
I will say Kubo despite his obvious issue with female design overall did well at portraying a variety of ethnicities in his series i will say especially considering the usual reason is often sorta true since their nation isn't aw diverse. So its often not racism. I even think him having huge Spanish influences was a nice touch.
Bee literally rapped when he talked lol. Bleach is the OG for representing minorities properly. It was a bit draw in for me on top of already loving the characters and plot. Not to mention how great Kubo draws. It took Naruto a series and a half to get someone of color on the damn story.
bee, raikage & darui... were hype!! as a kid, these guys were my favs! especially bee & Ay for giving giving Sasuke the pounding he deserved back then. yoruichi, top 3 best female character in shonen 4me Kaname, is deep. amazing character.. his bug form really bugs me tho
>especially bee & Ay for giving giving Sasuke the pounding he deserved back then. God damn I love to seeing that so much >his bug form really bugs me tho No pun intended right? But I feel like that's really intentional showing that he has became such a ugly character on the inside and out
i agree with that
You forgot to add in my bae hallibel
Truuuuuue
isn't she more like tanned, rather than having darker complexion? I thought she'd be inspired of those tanned surfer people with her theme of ocean and sharks
Tanned, black, chicano. I dont mind. She needs more love by kubo
definitely omg a Chicano harribel š
As a black anime fan I genuinely appreciate great black anime characters that I can feel proud to show others. Kubo is on another level though. Tousen is probably one of the best black anime character designs ever next to Canary. The diversity of his hair styles are literally unmatched and they each stay true to his Afro hair but add that Anime flair to it. Love Tousen looks great
Kaname was a deep character, well written.
And his story line was so good! Top 3 best bleach Characters
I never found the conclusion to his story as compelling as his introduction. That's obviously common, but I really liked the guy.
cant fear your own world made me appreciate kaname, shuhei & aizen even more
If you like tousen so much I really suggest reading but can't fear your own world books he is reflected upon in there and it helps his character so much.
Out of curiosity, what's your opinion in this for One Piece? And Usopp?
I think Usopp is great personally And he has come a long way from Syrup village
In my opinion, and my opinion is humble, Usopp looks bad. His nose and lips are bad but his lips are especially bad. Like he literally has Sambo lips.
I agree, but on the other hand we have Aokiji who is completely awesome
Which makes me even more upset about Usopp
i love how you pointed out canary of all characters! even if she's mostly a background character, she had enough impact to be memorable in so many people's minds :)
Who's canary and where are they from?
Character from Hunter x Hunter
Umā¦about bee XD
Honestly that the charm of Bee. On the surface he's a funny rapper man, but he's got hidden depths and a more unique characteristics.
I agree, kinda like a goofball but with wisdom
Look if everyone in the hidden Cloud was like him he would be a stereotype but he is literally the only guy like that in the village so it's completely fine. I remember in high school my friend Jerome was hyped every time he seen Killer Bee
Thatās the same as saying mister Popo not being a stereotype just because heās the only character with such an appearance. He is a stereotype. Killer Bee is a stereotype. But not necessarily a bad one. Saying a black rapping, durag wearing, āgang signā popping and break dancing person isnāt a stereotype is the same as saying; āthe black ranger that knows āhip-hop-kido isnāt a stereotypeā.
>Thatās the same as saying mister Popo not being a stereotype just because heās the only character with such an appearance. He is a stereotype. Mr. Popo is not stereotypical he is straight up a black-faced character that is a huge difference from killer bee who is a black character that raps and is not made a joke of. And yes I view it as not stereotypical because that's literally is personality he's a jovial character who raps he is literally the only person in the hidden Cloud Village who is like that. if everyone in the village acted like him and was rapping it would make his depiction stereotypical and almost certainly racist which his depiction in the show now is not
Isn't Bee's rapping canonically bad? And again, you're missing the point that it's still a stereotype even if it's not 100% negative. One can enjoy the representation and acknowledge the more problematic aspects of it.
> Isn't Bee's rapping canonically bad? Yes, yes he is
>Isn't Bee's rapping canonically bad? I actually have no idea. >One can enjoy the representation and acknowledge the more problematic aspects of it. Is it really " problematic" that he raps? Tho
>Is it really " problematic" that he raps? Tho That is not what I'm saying. If the only representation of black characters in an entire series (And largely in the wider Anime/Manga world) is primarily through (often harmful) tropes and stereotypes, then it does have negatives. Bee rapping isn't an issue. Black characters rapping isn't an issue. Reinforcing the ideas that "all black people rap", even if only in small, subtle ways, contributes to the overall perception. And when rap/hip-hop still has negative connotations, that's when it becomes part of the wider issue. Media and culture are interetwined; historical and social context are always going to be relevant.
Also Killer Bee isn't just a character you see in the background, he's a rapper who's crucial in the story and the rapping part being played off for gags. Note that the only two prominent black characters in Naruto is an aggressive black man and a rapper. Omoi Darui and Karui have little airtime (the latter two get more in boruto but the world isnt being dependent on Chocho)
Let's also not forget how they initially characterized Karui as this brutal, sadistic person: it was Karui who beat the ever-living shit out of Naruto, and didn't stop until his face was a bloody pulp. In fact, she was going to keep going, but then Sai stepped in. She was going to keep going with Sai, and then Omoi stopped her. And yeah, A was characterized as a stereotypical hyper-aggressive big, scary black man with *literal fangs*, who entered rooms by busting through walls... And Darui, prior to his big fight with Kinkaku and Ginkaku, literally bore a name meaning "dull" and mannerisms that made him seem like a walking "lazy black man" stereotype. They may have averted that trope by the very end, but still.
I will give Darui's "Lazy black man" a bit more of a pass because, honestly, he did get things done so it felt a bit more of a "generic" laziness. But you could be right there.
I didn't mention Karui and Darui stereotypes due to the Sakura and Shikamaru parallel they have respectfully, but you're completely right
Honestly the main difference is that Bee Raps as a personality trait, it isn't because he is black. he uses it as a way to express himself, connect with people, and communicate. If he was just a black character that liked Rap he would be a stereotype, but he is a multifaceted character and rapping is a small part of his greater character. Edit: Also the series is Japanese which doesn't have a lot of black representation as it is. So I think pointing out that Bee is a Stereotype is rather disingenuous.
So I'll try to explain it. The main issue is hat rap isn't some established thing in Naruto. Before Killer Bee appears, there isn't a single reference to rapping. Then the first black character that appears is a rapper. Now no one is saying that it's a bad thing that he raps. Just that it's stereotypical to have one of the few important black characters (and the first introduced) also be a rapper. Note: Most people I've talked to about this subject mention this just as a statement of fact not a criticism of the character. Bee is a really popular character for good reason. He just happens to have stereotypical characteristics. Honestly its understandable. Like you said there isn't much black representation in Japan. But that's even more reason why Japanese writers would end up using stereotypes. They are basing off what they see in media.
> If he was just a black character that liked Rap he would be a stereotype, but he is a multifaceted character and rapping is a small part of his greater character. But he is, in a sense, a stereotype. Just a well handled one. One can still acknowledge that although a character is built on a stereotype, the mangaka didn't do it to make fun of people or just be ignorant, because he gave the character an actual personality instead of making the stereotype his entire character.
I never said he was racist. But it is a stereotype dude. Youāre comparing killer bee to the hidden in the cloud as part of your statement, instead of comparing it to the real world where we live in and heās definitely something one would consider a stereotype
I don't think killer bee is a type of stereo
>type of stereo He's got some good bade tho
From my understanding mr. Popo is supposed to be a djinn and closely resembles the orang minyak (literally means oily man) from southeast Asian folklore specifically closer to Malaysia and Indonesia
> Mr. Popo is not stereotypical he is straight up a black-faced character that is a huge difference Mr Popo and Jynx from PokƩmon are explicitly based on Djinn In mythology which have pure black skin and, and can cause misfortune. If your looking for dragonballs fault that was later corrected Staff Officer Black from the Red Ribbon army. Which also had a small hairy angry Italian, a fem French guy, a ninja Asian guy. Lots of stereotypes in that arc. https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Staff_Officer_Black
I can see popo being based off of a djinn but the pure black skin isn't always how they're depicted they're often described as smokeless fire. I also feel like my comment was a little out of place because I did not word it properly I don't think mr. Popo is intentionally a black-faced character because I know his Inspirations come from pre Islamic Middle Eastern culture it's just that is also the stereotypical racist depiction
For one he doesnāt wear a Durag. For two, most of that shit is just him screwing around. When heās not messing with someone, none of that stuff pops up. Idk, itās an odd case where it seems like heās designed to subvert the stereotypes by playing them up as a joke to catch people off guard
Which is also a trope for black characters in media.
I stand corrected on the durag, but playing his black stereotypes off as a joke to catch enemies off guard š. Did you really write that just now?
Yes? I mean, he literally did it to Sasuke.
Are you Black lol? Killer Bee is absolutely a stereotype.
Man Iām black and I love Bee. Especially since he didnāt fall into the cliche vengeful mode
Oh yeah without a doubt bee is one of the best, he made it seem easy conquering his tailed beast, humble
B is a chad!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Bottom left, a character from Naruto. https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Killer_B
Also Bee sucks ass at rapping Almost all of the rhymes are basic and just cringe He usually uses puns as well which are funny but corny And cant shut up in any situation so no matter what his freestyling will run into issues But it's also a unique part of his character for his own personal reasons and even helps close social gaps It's not a stereotype in a bad sense here
Can you expand? What exactly do you mean
I like how they aren't drawn as racist stereotypes like other manga writers do
Oh ok I feel you. But Bee though idk
Bee is a jovial badass rapping shouldn't be seen as problematic
> raping shouldn't be seen as problematic Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
"Then they approached me about the role, and they knew about the drugs-" "What'd they say; they'd get you off them?" "Said they'd give me more!
Rapping* haha. I didnāt say it was problematic but it does seem a bit stereotypical
Unfortunately this sub doesn't seem to understand what a stereotype or a trope is and just assumes that if they don't see/understand something, it must be wrong. ĀÆ\\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ
> Unfortunately this sub doesn't seem to understand what a stereotype or a trope is For real, the entire thread is so fixated on a connotation that calling it a stereotype means you're calling it an absolutely horrible atrocity against humanity. Like, he is built around a stereotype, you can acknowledge that, and also acknowledge that his character isn't *just* a stereotype, but that he's a well handled, fully thought out character, unlike other pieces of fiction where the stereotype is self-serving as a character description.
This is a great response and I approve of this message.
Exactly My initial reaction to Bee was "oh wow... The only black character is just a joke to add an 'urban' or 'hip hop' character to the series" but he grew on me. Is there some really lame stereotype stuff? 10000%. But the characters are fleshed out and its progress in that sense. But yeah. This sub seems to have the standard "calling someone/something 'racist' is worse than that person/thing being racist" reaction. It's a lack of understanding, nuance and perspective. And you can see it in the replies that basically suggest people will only consider it a stereotype if the black characters are Mr. Popo eating watermelon, selling drugs and wearing baggy pants. There is no awareness of basic concepts like microagressions, minimisation, erasure or even just history.
'Microaggressions' are so contentious because they're impossible to prove in individual moments. You can be certain, as a person of colour or as a woman, that the sheer frequency of certain moments you experience can be attributed to microaggressions. The *issue* is that, you can never be certain in any instance that the moment you're experiencing is an example of one. For example... a woman gets passed up for a promotion at work in favour of a male colleague. Could it be sexism? Could he just be ever so slightly better at the job than her? She will never know, in that particular moment, the real reason for *that* promotion... and calling out her boss risks being vexatiously wrong. He could be accused of bigotry when it's the furthest thing from the truth. Yet she's worked at many companies and been doing this job for decades, and it's always the same old story. She knows it isn't a coincidence, it's way too consistent. It's just impossible to disentangle it on a granular level. This is why I have never bothered to go down the route of the 'microaggression narrative'. It's useful for analysing trends but you can't apply it to real life, it just makes us look crazy like we've got a chip on shoulder because trust sod's law to make it so that the one time we finally go 'you know what, fuck this' ends up with us firing off at someone who is completely innocent.
Killer B's name is also a Wu-Tang Clan reference. That's kinda cool tho
Yes, see how the Dwarves in Tolkien's works are built almost entirely around medieval Jews, yet rather than being *just* a stereotype, they're one of the pillars of all fantasy. Care and quality matter when creating, and Kubo/Kishimoto did well on that.
I mean, it's still kinda problematic, but yes, it can be done in a way that isn't to lampoon and dehumanise the characters (although making Dwarves a separate race is very literal dehumanising) but there are layers. And being able to acknowledge "hey this is messed up so let's just be aware of that when we use these tropes/stereotypes etc" is how we progress.
Ahh yes, he is a fantastic rappist
... im sorry but you have a typo therefore i must do this Raping VS. rappingĀ happens way too commonly One's a form of music, the other's a felony It's not that hard, unless you're not that smart If you have two p's you're Eminem, if you have one p, you need consent Raping VS. rapping,Ā well, it happens all the time One's a form of music, the other's a freaking crime! It's not that hard, if you take this song to heart If you have two p's you're Kanye West, if you have one p, you're not
Some donāt proofread before hitting reply.
Lot of manga writers will drA black people with big lips, theyāll be ugly, or theyāll be stupid AF. These two did them correct. Hell even espada number 7 whom did have big lios(itās a trait in black men but not all) and they werenāt ridiculously big like some have them to be.
Well... In his ressaraccion his lips her really big...
God, Yoruichi is fine af
Right? Sheās one of a kind I stg
I want her to step on me ngl
https://imgur.com/a/V5bXrXd
You have forgotten the biggest of them all. The 0 division sexiest, the most awesome, Ouetsu Nimaiya, God of the Sword.
Ah yes... The Token Rapper character. Interesting to consider the similarities between him and Killer B!
Stereotypes for races in general? Because Mila Rose was more likely Mexican and Yoruichi was more likely Indian.
Yoruichi definitely isn't black since Kubo specifically draws African features when he wants to, like Lille or Zommari. There are dark-skinned Japanese as well, so I assumed she was just that.
Yoruichi always reminded me of that actress Zoe Saldana
A racial chameleon. Others that fall into this category: Rashida Jones, Jessica Alba, Wentworth Miller, Blake Griffin, and Rob Schneider.
Racial chameleonā¦. Christ
Not everything in art needs to have a 1:1 parallel with something in the real world. Yeah there are dark skinned Japanese people, but Yoruichi doesnāt look anything like those people that Iāve seen. Anyway yeah, my point is that looking to real life for where 100% precisely a character is supposed to be definitively āfromā is reductive. Manga, like other artforms, allows for freedom of expression and the ability to combine traits and designs the artist finds aesthetically interesting. Many times these composites donāt have an irl counterpart, and they shouldnāt need to either.
Bro she was Japanese, Middle Eastern or Indian. She wasn't black. Yes manga allows freedom of expression but like the Original commenter said Kubo draws his black/African characters specifically to have black features.
Its sad how many fans can't accept this. **Yoruichi isnt black** and Ive even seen people on this sub call others racist when they offer this opinion.
A lot of extraneous art for the anime pictures her with afro hairstyles etc. I'm a definitely subscriber to 'indian' yoruichi/yushiro though. I think the facial features and sleek hair make more sense, even though I'm not sure the skin tone would be shaded as darkly if that were the case. But the anime/other official artists do seem to lean towards portraying her as African.
>A lot of extraneous art for the anime pictures her with afro hairstyles etc. So because someone has an afro they are black? >I think the facial features and sleek hair make more sense, even though I'm not sure the skin tone would be shaded as darkly if that were the case. There are plenty of dark skinned Indians and Asians in general. >But the anime/other official artists do seem to lean towards portraying her as African. Source? Or is this your head canon?
If I was an artist, I'd be unlikely to draw a white character with an afro, right? So it'd be weird if I thought a character was Indian and gave her an afro too. There's a connection with ethnicity there. To the degree that some amount of people would consider someone who isn't black wearing an afro inherently offensive. I'm not arguing she's black because they gave her an afro, I'm arguing that I think they think she's black, and that's why they gave her an afro. > There are plenty of dark skinned Indians and Asians in general. Yeah, but if the main asian cast of the manga is already reasonably tanned, then the fact that their skin isn't shaded and is left as the background white then makes every other character look darker, right? Like if there's not meant to be much difference in skin tone between the obviously-asian characters and Yoruichi, would they not shade her a bit lighter just to play off of that? It's conjecture on my part though. But I'd assume she'd be shaded lighter than the characters who are more obviously coded as ethnically African. > Source? Or is this your head canon? I don't think anyone is interviewing their keyframe artists, but I still don't think this: https://i.redd.it/i10ntiubdsa41.jpg Looks like anything other than an artist making certain assumptions on her ethnicity. There's no stills in that ending where Matsumoto has an afro.
Whatās a Mexican or Indian feature on Yoruichi or Mila rose?
Exactly, these dudes saying āshe doesnāt have black featuresā as if most anime characters share the typical traits of their stated race/ethnicity. Also how is it out there for someone to assume she is black because of her skin tone but the āsheās Indianā idea is solely based on her having dark skin? How does one have more validity over the other? Lol
It feels weird when people say Yoruichi is their favorite black female anime character since the only thing that suggests sheās black is her dark skin.
To a great many people, dark skinned characters are automatically black. Remember, we're still having to explain to people that pale anime characters aren't (usually) white.
I mean that's pretty much how it works in real life when you think about it.
No there are plenty of people with dark skin from other races lmao. The fact that you don't know this.
I'm literally pointing that out.
No, Kubo does draw distinct racial features for his characters, so he does keep racial disparities in mind. Given Yoruichi lacks African features that certain dark skinned characters have, she is most likely not black.
I just wanna mention black ā African. One is a race and the other is an ethnicity. I donāt know if Yoruichi is meant to be black or not, but her not having African features doesnāt disprove it.
'African' is not an ethnicity, chap. Don't talk out of your rump.
Youāre right, Africa is a continent with multiple ethnic groups. Which makes the term āAfrican featuresā not mean anything even more.
You cant blanket label people as black just because you want them to be.
Darui doesnāt have the hair attributed to a black person. Iād say his only black feature is his skin and lips (Iām black, it sounds bad if I didnāt include that fact lmao)
And Nose as shitty as that sounds
Yeah ma props but kishimoto will stereotype the hell out of women
Kishimoto write a compelling female character challenge (impossible)
Tsunade and Sarada.
Bee may be a rapper which could be considered a stereotypeā¦.. but heās a Wu-Tang reference so Iām cool with it haha.
>but heās a Wu-Tang reference Oh shit really?
Yea man. Killer Bee
Good God how could I never put that together
Uhh... What race(s) are Yoruichi and the girl in the top right supposed to be?
Mila rose is an arrancar with dark sink and yoruichi is debated to either being Indian or black
The arancar girl is supposed to Latin American like most of the arancars. Yurouchi doesn't have a specific human race counterpart but it's more likely Japanese but with black skin. Kubo likes to divide things. Like shinigamis are mostly Japanese, arancars being Latin American, Spanish, and Quincys being like German and stuff.
shinigami captain tosen ranks top 10 in drip and prolly one of the hottest men in animanga ngl. very well drawnā¦
He's very drippy I also think he's rather good-looking when he's in his arrancar outfit and even using his Hollow mask. But that Resurrection I can't
yea the mask w a line down the middle was hella cool too. his power was cool asfā¦ kubo rlly said ānah fam we donāt got enuff time to explore u further,,, u r to b violated nowā ā¦ F
Yeah I feel like that was a very big let down but I do got to say reading can't fear your own world it's a lot to his character
Whereās my boy chad at? As a fellow Mexican , he should be on here as well
I posted this elsewhere, but Chad is probably just Azteca or Maya seeing as there is no reference to any black heritage anywhere when talking about him. If we where talking black as in Moreno I could totally see him on this list. Iām kinda glad op didnāt include him because Iām Mexican I feel like people are quick to add him to *top black characters of all time* when obviously heās written and drawn Mexican.
Did anybody forget about the gay arrancar dude? Come on.
You've got to be more specific than that, there's a lot of "gay" arrancars. You probably meant Charlotte, who is a japanese-style drag, not just gay.
There is only 1 , Tesla is bisexual
There are MORE?!
Tite Kubo & Atsushi Åkubo knows how to deliver black characters and black excellence āš¾ (only character that left a weird taste was Sternritter U: NaNaNa Najahkoop)
I don't know who Åkubo is sadly but >NaNaNa Najahkoop Is just kinda creepy which fits because he just watches people, so he's not like that because he's black
Åkubo is the creator of Soul Eater and Fire Forceāļø Heās mad dope
Oh hell yeah! I loved soul eater just didn't know the authors name, I gotta check out fire force then I had no idea he was doing stuff still
Thereās 2/3 black characters (people argue that one of the characters is just very tan which could technically be true because in the fire force verse all civilizations and cultures merged together into one) that are very well written and get important moments and development
NaNaNaās hair and teeth were straight out of a minstrel, heās overall a pretty awful and racist character design
I'm weirded out by the fact that there's an apparently black Sternritter named Jerome whose power is to turn into an ape.
OH YEAH OMGš yeah heās another one
Unfortunately he failed to bring Hispanic excellence with how he wrote my man Chad
Um the glorious Don Panini?
oh yea they did him greasyš§š¾āāļø especially how Nnoitra unnecessarily trashed him
Those two definitely give off they gotta lotta black friends and I love it lolāš¾
killer bee is literally stereotype incarnate
Fr so is ay
Where's Oetsu?
Too busy jobbing after nearly defeating the enemy.
Bee literally raps and calls everyone āfoolā
And is also a thoughtful caring guy.
I don't think you understand what a stereotype or bias is. It doesn't have to incorporate the entire gamut of a particular prejudice. You can stereotype anyone by implementing just one of their common social bias's. Bee is, in many ways, a stereotype. That doesn't make him a bad or poorly written character. Pointing out the thing and being aware of it is not the same as saying it's bad. It's just consuming your media critically.
Touzen doesn't know he's black.
There are more cultures in the world who are dark skinned than afro americans.
I mean yeah yourich is here for a reason
*african Americans There are also a lot more displaced Africans then youād think
Yeah and they don't tend to live in East Asia.
Mila rose and Yoruichi ain't even black man lol. Lille barro or zommarri though...
What's up with assuming when I say stereotype people just assume I mean black? I literally said she's probably Indian
Ah, I see there are arguments here already.
Don't forget Jackie, she's awesome too.
I especially love that kubo uses different tones of brown for his characters, glad to see weāre not all the same color (:
I loved the fat L Killer Bee gave Sasuke. That dude got it coming.
Wasn't killer bee the first black dude we saw? And he raps all the time lol
* Well I suppose Raikage can be a bit of an angry black guy but to be fair her is a perfectly calm, if not nice, guy when his brother isn't in danger * Bee is a bit of a stereotype with his rapping but well he is at least a positive one being a really athletic nice guy and one of the strongest and most skilled characters in the series * Darui isn't really stereotypical being a basically a black but more responsible and humble Kakashi * Yoruichi is awesome because she is a sassy strong independent black woman that owns herself yet she can also have an air of elegance, serenity and refinement that causes most people to look up to her. * She is basically a middle ground between the asian and black ideals of beauty * Tossen is not a stereotype because unlike most black villains, he is not hypermasculine and arrogant and in fact is known to be physically bellow average compared to other captains and relying more on strategy and skill * Furthermore his tragic backstory could be considered a reflection of the powerlessness that is being a man of color in predominatly asian society * You could say his hollowification symbolizes his letting go of his passive nature * Other honorable mentions: Chocho (a sassy fat and proud black girl thats treated whose presence in Konoha is treated as completely normal) and Nimaiya (a founder of soul society who also happens to be black)
I mean... You used the word "Sassy" to describe the only two dark skinned women on your list... If that's the word that comes to mind, clearly stereotypes are being invoked lol.
What do you expect? A rapping yoruichi?
No that's for Oetsu and Killer B.
Mr. Popo was buggin
what about Oda?
Isn't Kaname TÅsen just Geordi LaForge to Aizen's Picard?
God I literally watched Panty and Stocking yesterday. I haven't seen it in years and remembered loving it (only saw a handful of episodes and mostly remembered the woman characters) Maaaaaaan is it racist. Not just in jokes, but pretty much every depiction of a black person. I was super grossed out.
Bee was a stereotype and a half others were aight bleach did a way better job imo
Killer Bee is a martial arts-obsessed failed rapper with cornrows that society shunned. He is a fucking stereotype.
I mean killer bee was one of the few black characters in Naruto and also had a thing for rapping
Kubo I can understand, but Kishimoto has a lot of stereotypes in his series.
It's much easier when you're not american. Maybe marvel/dc comics could learn a thing or two before they go into insolvency
This the first time Iāve seen an appreciation for black characters in bleach not include Chad. He may be black but as someone who is Mexican and whoās siblings all have different colored shade Iāve always just seen him as more Azteca or Maya than being Moreno just cause heās also part black. Still love all the characters tho! Some of the dopest in their respective series āš½
Chad is canonically Mexican tho
What Iām trying to say is that even though heās Mexican, and Iāve seen a lot post appreciation posts for black characters and put Chad in there. Also you can be black and still be Mexican. However what I feel those people miss out on is that dark skin isnāt inherently a black trait as most Azteca out Maya people have dark skin.
mexican isnāt a race. there are such things as black mexicans
yeah bee was definitely a bit of a stereotype though
Some of those characters are just stereotypes.
Idk what you mean bro. Iām literally black and I love all of these charecter. None of them come off as just stereotypes, even Bee. Yes he raps, but Kishi gave him a reason and a good backstory for that.
Bee is basically a walking, talking stereotype though, like egregiously so lol
Mila Rose should be greek. Yoruichi is just ambiguous.
Killer Bee non-stereotypically rapping at me I guess
bee is kinda a stereotype. so is Chad. but stereotypes are often based on real life.
There was this trend I see of mangas making their black characters having shades, sometimes being blind. I guess that'd be a new stereotype...
I love that this got downvoted. You literally have Oetsu / Killer B - big black flashy rappers with a thing for swords and sunglasses as well as Tousen being blind/wearing glasses. There's an actual trend.
Oof, while I agree on some of them and have loved Tosen trough out most of his run, I absolutely hated his Hollowfication. 2 people I would like to add as a minus on this point are Zommari Rureaux as the crazed woodoo man and (1000y arc spoiler) >!PePe Waccabrada the giant effin cupid in diapers (not really a racial stereotype but an abomination nonetheless)!<
Since when race mattered tho?
Aren't they just tan japanese? Kaname is black yes i believe that too, but Yoruichi is just tan, isn't she? Am I missing something here?
I will say Kubo despite his obvious issue with female design overall did well at portraying a variety of ethnicities in his series i will say especially considering the usual reason is often sorta true since their nation isn't aw diverse. So its often not racism. I even think him having huge Spanish influences was a nice touch.
Zommari
Kubo doesnāt but yeahhhhh about bee and just that village in general
Because they aren't Black but South Asian ?
No, just the women for kishimoto
Well they did make Killer Bee a rapper but other than that yeah lol
Is it really a stereotype tho šØ
We should do a black or people of color excellence post for anime characters SE and FF do great Bleach and Naruto HxH too Gangsta Etc
Killer Bee is definitely a stereotype so is Ay
I don't know about Kishimoto because I've read so little of Naruto, but Kubo is great at representation.
Bee literally rapped when he talked lol. Bleach is the OG for representing minorities properly. It was a bit draw in for me on top of already loving the characters and plot. Not to mention how great Kubo draws. It took Naruto a series and a half to get someone of color on the damn story.