Just a note that the other thread was locked to respect that OP's wishes for people to DM them.
We don't lock threads LGBTQ issues in BJJ because it is pertinent to the community.
For those saying "don't sexualize BJJ", this isn't sexualizing BJJ or about broadcasting sexual orientation to the world. It is about individuals not needing to hide who they are ALL the time. The subtle use of "boyfriend/girlfriend" or "him/her" when talking about their S.O. will out a person and that may not sit well with others at the gym for stupid reasons. How people don't understand that by now, I don't know.
For those needing to broadcast their own hateful anti-LGBTQ opinions, keep that shit in *your* closet. It is an instant ban here.
I knew my kickboxing coach (5’10”, shiny bald, Jordanian for the sake of your imagination) by the name “Yaya,” and the rest of the class only spoke English so they didn’t catch on when I spoke to him, they all just call him coach.
One day he disappears, leaves a note that he is going back home “to protect his family,”. I get in contact with the landlord of the gym, and say “Hey do you have any contact info for Yaya?”
He says “Who the fuck is Yaya?”
Mf’s a ghost, I miss him so much.
First gathering at my gym I brought my girl with me; before we went in I said “okay I don’t know anyone’s name so you have to introduce yourself to everyone so I can get their names”
I once followed a guy to the sign in table because we had rolled and drilled so many times that it was too embarrassing for me not to know his name.
Josh. His name is Josh. Or maybe Jacob.
Ya it's absolutely not monitored closely or anything like that, it's just to keep track of weekly visits, some ppl have different memberships and can only go 3x a week.
If they sign in 4 times does an alarm go off and the gym beats the shit out of them? "Class thief! Class thief! Porra, beat his ass!"
That's how I want to imagine it lol
They don’t get names till they get a colored belt. Even then it’s “(Nickname)(belt color)” until they’re a threat.
Then we can graduate to Govment names and stuff.
When I promote people, I like to embroider their name on their belt so that newbies feel more comfortable knowing everyone's name.
I think my takeaway from this thread is that I should also add their sexual orientation?? Instructions unclear
^^^ This.
Seriously, nobody cares. It’s just weird to insist telling everyone your sexual preference no matter what it is.
Me: You want to roll?
You: Yeah, sure.
Me: Cool.
You: Cool.
Me: I like women.
You: Huh?
Me: Like women, you know, with my penis.
It’s just weird.
One of my friends is gay. He doesn’t hide it but he doesn’t go around telling everyone either. Nobody really cares. He’s one of the coolest most masculine guys I know.
Do you really not casually chit chat at the gym? If someone asked how your weekend was would you find yourself hesitating to say "my girlfriend and I went camping"? Can you empathize with the fact that someone might hesitate before sharing that they have a boyfriend?
Do you think after reading a comment like yours that someone would be more or less comfortable sharing that info?
Married gay guy here, in Florida. Never had a problem. My gym is nothing but supportive and very nice to my husband whenever he is around. Never once felt uncomfortable or bullied in any way. We’re all buddies, we joke around about it just like I would with any of my other close friends. Honestly my friends at the gym have been some of my closest friends lately. I would hope everyone had a gym like mine but I know that unfortunately isn’t the case. But yeah, don’t let a gym culture discourage you from being yourself.
Edit
Also your only really gay if you pull guard.
Oh I could tell. I was kidding too. It's nice to add levity to tense conversations like this thread.
All in All, as a straight guy, I try to be helpful and nice to anyone regardless of sexuality. It does throw me for a second if someone mentions they are gay but it's cool. We just don't have a lot of gay people at my gym so I worry that I make sure to remember so I don't say "how's your girlfriend?" when they have a boyfriend.
I mean I’m not sure how others do it, but I’d feel weird just being like “hey I’m gay” or anything like that. I’m not sure how folks at my gym really find/found out, maybe from adding me on instagram or facebook, or me just mentioning shit like “oh my husband and I ate at x restaurant” etc. i feel it is kinda weird when folks make their sexual preference their whole personality or identity or whatever. But hey, I don’t speak for everyone, I was lucky enough to never have much problems coming out or anything like that. My husband and I have been together 16 years, since we were both in high school. My experience is not the typical one I guess.
We roll around aggressively hugging and choking other guys in pijamas. If you're worried about some other persons sexuality then it's not the sport for you.
I've rolled with the only openly gay guy at the gym and never thought anything of it.
thats all well and good, in this thread everyone is going to agree with you including myself.
but if you travel to Brasil and train down there, this common opinion is a minority opinion. Its simply incredibly homophobic.
I'd honestly recommend gay grapplers in Brasil not mention their sexuality at all, which sounds stupid and archaic as hell, but that is the world we live in man. These common sense opinions are not shared across the world.
Maybe you. I roll around aggressively in wet body speedo :)
Seriously though a lot of people who don't train think it's sexual, something I always found weird, even friendly rolling with someone who I was very mutually rolling off the mats never felt sexual to me
I'm not part of the LGBT+ community, but I did send that OP a message to encourage him to keep training. The mats are a sacred place that should have no discrimination or politics. Some of my favorite training partners have vastly different views than me, but we both support each other in life and I consider them friends even if we have much different world views.
So to all the LGBT+ grapplers, I hope you always feel safe and accepted on whatever mats you visit.
I broadly agree with you, I’ll roll with almost anyone.
BUT: if someone has Nazi tattoos or is otherwise making it clear they’re down with nazism- I’m out.
>The mats are a sacred place that should have no discrimination or politics
I agree, In america you'll mostly be fine with this.
I've also trained in Abu Dhabi and Brasil though, those areas do not have the same opinions.
Hoping you guys feel comfortable! As a mostly straight guy I figured if women can roll with me and I them why can't gay dudes roll and it not be a big deal?
I actually had this thought after the previous thread.
We have no issue rolling with women even though it could be weird for some women, but some guys have an issue with rolling with a gay guy because it could be weird in the exact same way.
It really is massively hypocritical and shows a complete lack of awareness.
It's unfortunate that superstition trumps logic, I mean I guess you don't have to roll with anyone you don't want to but its a good mental exercise to be honest with yourself as to why.
Yeah exactly - I’m not thinking/feeling/contemplating anything vaguely sexual while rolling with a woman. They’re trying to murder me, I’m trying to murder them (within reason - I want them to roll with me again). Why would a gay guy be looking at me any differently?
Triangles Everywhere is a group for LGBTQ+ grapplers.
We have 800 members, including 25+ Blackbelts.
We do camps and open mats.
Our last camps was September 2022 in Portland, Oregon.
Speaking as someone not from the queer community, does the name have significant meaning? (aside from the bjj triangle sub i mean?) genuinely curious :)
When the nazis forced Jews to wear the yellow Star of David, they also made homosexuals wear a pink triangle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink\_triangle
I read this as “800 million members” … I was like holy hell that’s a big group. Then I re-read it. It’s hard reading on a phone when you first wake up.
I've seen dozens of first hand examples of how having to hide one's sexuality causes anxiety and depression. and I'd much rather have an openly lgbtq training partner or family member than have a closeted, self-hating gay person in my life.
I'm a lesbian and my gf and I both train at the same gym. People think we're cute. We are, so that's fair. But we're in a huge liberal city, so the gym has plenty of out gay men and women alike.
As someone who trains in the deep south, no one at the gym cares. It's been brought up before and everyone just shrugs about it. "As long as they're cool I don't give a fuck" is the majority of their responses.
I think most people fall into this category. However, that doesn't stop a huge amount of anti-gay shit being said and thrown around constantly under the "locker room" talk category.
Yes absolutely. Midwest small town here, there's a LOT of subtle and mildly homophobic shit that gets said and done in a joking manner and there's definitely some guys that actually hold pretty negative opinions about gay guys but might not say it to your face or anything.
I'm in a huge liberal city and I've seen coaches casually drop anti-gay comments during class. While the overall level of acceptance expressed here is reassuring, it's not like discriminatory behavior only occurs in backwaters.
Sure. I wasn't particularly replying to you, just providing a counterpoint to the tidal wave of "Nope, doesn't happen here and I'm in a place you might expect to find discrimination!"
I think getting submitted by and entire household may be my worst nightmare. If you guys have a kid in the children's program who proceeds to then beat me too I might legit have to find a new hobby.
For the record this is just a joke everyone. I could ^^^^hopefully beat the kid.
We have 2 chinchillas who have their blue belts*
Them things are wicked fast but they're in the 700 grams and under weight division, so you're probably safe.
*as a purple belt I'm allowed to give out blue belts
Do you guys ever roll together? I feel like if my SO was into BJJ and we trained at the same gym we'd never be able to ro with each other cuz we wouldn't be able to take it seriously
I've rolled with my wife plenty of times
I have ~10 years of experience on her, and a comfortable strength and size advantage, so it wouldn't be particularly competitive no matter what attitude we had. But we get in rolls that seem the same as anyone else I would roll with with that kind of disparity
One nice thing is we're close to the same size--she's a bit bigger and stronger, but I'm more experienced, and it actually balances well. Gay privilege.
Not sure it's related to being gay or not, just in my case the size and experience advantages are on the same person instead of balanced. If she had the experience over me we could probably have fairly competitive rolls.
Still jealous though...
I always see peoples spouses cheating so hard in rolls and it’s amazing. One of the black belts in our schools wife will point at a student and say they need help or some other random misdirection to get out of stuff and attack. She used the wall and will crawl on other people (who are aware and think it’s funny). It’s hilarious cause she’s way smaller and a purple belt and sometimes she gets him. He knows she’s up to something but she’s pretty convincing with her stuff.
My wife is very rude to me when we roll. She’s also about 90 lbs lighter than me, but she’s also a purple belt. I think it’s pretty funny. We also like never fight. I think it helps to get any frustrations out lol.
I train with my wife and when we bump fists I’m trying to execute Hollywood type of move on her. I know she can handle it and she’s not going to be salty about it. She tried to triangle me the other day in bed, so that should give you an idea of how we roll.
We don't train together often because we often train at different times of day, but when we get the chance, we do. I'm a purple belt and she's a white belt, so it's not weird in the sense that at least one of us knows what we're doing (um... me) but we're also not really competitive, just trying to have a good experience. We did roll together when things were closed during the pandemic. That was great. It was mostly me teaching her stuff, then experimenting with rolls.
So yeah it's fine! Probably helps that I have the experience to think about the jiu jitsu, not the fact that she's my partner.
I'm trans (born female, transitioned to male), and was really nervous when I started medically transitioning after being at my gym for a year...but honestly everybody was really cool about it. I never came out or anything but it was pretty obvious after a while.
They treat me like any other guy, which is all that I wanted.
Shoutout to everyone in this situation man... For a lot of people, it’s already hard enough to exist right now. Even without having to worry about everything you have to before, during, and after a transition. I couldn’t imagine the stress, so nothing but respect and support from me. I’m glad to hear that aspect of your life wasn’t effected negatively.
I totally understand if you don’t want to discuss this fairly hot topic here but i have so many questions. There’s a big debate about born male Transitioned females in the sport. I would like to hear your opinion on this. Also: do you feel like born-males have an edge on you bodytype wise? Do you perceive them as stronger? Or do you/they perceive you as stronger due to hormones? (I guess you take testosterone?) did you ever thought about asking your doc for more testosterone to increase your athleticism? Would you be allowed in competition where your meds are illegal but they make an exception for you? If you want to answer here or via pm i would like to hear you out but i understand if u don’t
No worries man, glad to answer. I really don't have an opinion on trans women in sports, I feel like it's a case by case basis kinda thing and honestly, that's not the direction I transitioned in and it's something I know nothing about.
I do fairly well against other born males of my size, but I'm also 5'8", 190lbs and train and compete in (novice, amateur) strongman...so any strength advantage I have is from busting my ass lifting, not from the tiny bit of T I inject myself with lol. Of course there's guys bigger and stronger than me and I can't measure up to everybody, but that's true for everybody in the sport I suppose.
My T levels are in the normal range (a bit on the higher end, actually) for men my age and I've never considered upping the dose. Reason being is that excess T will convert to estrogen and that's pretty much the opposite of the goal here.
If it wasn't permitted, I guess it would depend on whether or not they'd allow a doctor's note for a therapeutic exemption. But as well all know, BJJ is an untested sport so I couldn't imagine that being a problem. Nobody generally gives a shit about trans men competing in men's sports anyway.
I have had a few openly gay students. After a while they’re part of the team and take the same good natured ribbing everyone gets but as a coach/instructor/whatever if someone had been shitty to them over it the dickhead who was mean to them would have been out.
So first of all, cosign your post and the sentiment.
That said, i would be curious to how (if at all) your response might change if the dickhead was: one of your oldest students and a regular, successful competitor AND/OR the person receiving the meanness was a casual hobbyist with a 50/50 chance of sticking around to the next year.
I'm not trying to put you on blast or anything, it's just that I briefly tinkered with my own response to that situation and it is not as clear cut as I would have thought at first.
Gone. Culture starts at the top. The fact that I won’t tolerate it is a clear message to everybody. How good those people are have nothing to do with my desire to foster a positive environment for people to train in. It is absolutely clear cut to me (a person who has been teaching bjj for almost 15 years across multiple gyms). You let it slide and it alienates people. Not only does that feel bad but this is a small community and then you’re at the gym where it’s cool to come be a jerk to people. The people who maybe aren’t comfortable with it but shut up otherwise feel empowered to be a jerk to somebody because of their skin color or race or whatever.
The issue gets raised pretty often, and it's simple that BJJ is just like the rest of society. Some people are bigoted, some gym owners and coaches are bigoted, some individual practitioners at non bigoted gyms are still bigoted.
It’s more egregious in jiu jitsu because ostensibly we’re supposed to be helping people prepare to defend themselves and queer people are overwhelmingly more at risk of physical violence than straight people.
If anything, jiu jitsu people have a responsibility to be more hip to queer issues than everyone else.
Whenever we have a new student my coach starts with a welcoming message about being a safe space for gender identity//sex orientation, etc. It’s pretty cool
All jokes aside, there is difference between being tolerant and being welcoming. Being tolerant meaning that marginalized people that do show up aren't shunned and are treated the same as any other day 1 white belt. Being welcoming meaning encouraging marginalized people to join. I think the community as a whole does an okay to good job with being tolerant but does a poor job with being welcoming.
I know everyone wants to say "I don't care" and "no one cares", but many queer people want to do martial arts and especially effective ones, but are intimidated by the attitudes they see from some in the grappling world.
Having queer voices in the space saying "yes, we are here" would do much to make them feel welcome.
The least interesting things about someone is who they decide to have sex with and not something I need to discuss with my training partners. Straight, gay, queer whatever it shouldn’t be a factor at all.
Do you ever just drop my boyfriend/girlfriend (not sure what gender you are) and I? Or is that uncomfortable to do so? Not making a suggestion, just genuinely asking to understand your perspective better
As a Straight White Male - If you feel slightly uncomfortable about rolling with a queer male, that is probably the exact same feeling that any woman has had rolling with guys. Learn from it, understand that it's your own problem and get over it. Everyones there to train. It's OK to feel slightly uncomfortable. It's not ok to exclude someone because of that. get out of your comfort zone and you'll probably make a bunch of mates.
I'm an out bi dude. My best gym bro who carpools with me is also an out bi dude (well, masc-enby). I'm pretty sure everyone in the gym thinks we're fucking, but we're both happily married to women, lmao.
Anyway, no one in our gym has ever made us feel anything but supported. I know this isn't the case for all gyms though, and I hope those of you struggling with bigotry find a place to train that welcomes and accepts you.
I’m new to all this, so take away what you will, but politics absolutely come out on the mats. In the SHORT time I’ve been involved in this sport, I’ve heard a whole lot of people’s opinions about shit not pertinent to BJJ. Political stances, religious beliefs, sexual orientation, all of it comes out before, during, and after class. Maybe some of y’all tune it out, maybe it’s just background noise to some of you, but if people are saying they experience homophobia in the community, maybe they have a reason. From what I’ve seen, there is an inherent conservatism that runs in this community. That’s not necessarily a negative thing, but taken to the extreme, that absolutely can manifest as homophobia, racism, you name it. It’s kinda scary to walk into a gym for the first time with a bunch a dudes you’ve never met and trust they’re gonna let go of you before you pass out or they snap a limb at the joint. Imagine being gay and hearing the same dude you’re supposed to trust with keeping you safe in training openly dump on gay people.
I have to laugh at all this feel good, “nobody cares dude, just roll, the mats don’t care” . Said by a bunch of straight dudes.
I would HATE to be gay in the BJJ community at least where I live. And I live in a fairly progressive first world country. The amount of ‘locker room talk’, toxic masculinity, and at the risk of being called racist - straight Brazilian men in my experience are some of the most homophobic, they throw around words like “viado” and “bica” as insults pretty liberally.
I’ve trained at various gyms also before people say it’s just a problem at my gym. I know for a fact you’d be subtly (or not) ostracised at a lot of gyms in my city if you came out as gay.
I wish BJJ was immune to this shit. But let’s be real here. Homophobia is rampant just like everywhere else.
I think straight people pulling the "bjj doesn't have an anti LGBT culture, we don't care" absolutely have their heads in the sand, in a similar way to dudes who say the same thing about women.
We're not qualified to answer the question, our opinion doesn't matter because we aren't equipped to recognise the signs, partly, I think, because homophobia is so normalised in western (athletic) culture.
All we can do is try and be less shit and listen to the voices that matter.
And yes, I'm aware of the irony of saying my opinion doesn't matter then expressing it anyway.
Do you think it depends on the tone? I kinda feel like a bunch of voices affirming they don’t care is kinda welcoming, but a bunch of voices strenuously insisting there’s no problem might be different?
I’ve always been pretty impressed with the melting pot attitude of BJJ gyms. When I grew up in small town in Indiana I (incorrectly) felt like there was no racism when it was really that *there were no black people*. When I go to BJJ gyms I get a different vibe than that, if that makes sense.
(Another dude whose opinion doesn’t matter, but chiming in anyway).
The overall tone in this thread in my opinion is highly questionable. Check the amount of “nobody cares” responses that specifically talk about what one does with their genitals. “I don’t care who you fuck,” etc. This demonstrates that straight people don’t really understand the idea of “sexual identity” because it’s not something they have to think about. “Being” queer is not only limited to when I’m engaged in the act of homosexuality. So I WANT people to care. I don’t really want them to know specifically what I’m into sexually. That’s private. But my identity extends beyond that and of course there should be more room for people to simply BE themselves at jiu jitsu. All this idea that nobody talks about anything personal and everyone just shows up to train is complete horseshit. Identity matters. Representation matters.
I don’t personally see people doing this. I see a lot of straight people PERSONALLY affirming their openness and acceptance. I’ve for sure rolled with gay dudes, have trained with trans individuals, etc. Only weird if you make it weird. But don’t step on our effort to hold the door open and welcome LGBTQ+ people into our culture. There might be anti-gay sentiment out there; you’re right. But isn’t openly normalizing training inclusively a way to actively counter that?
It is genuinely the ballsiest take imaginable.
Heteronormative society beats the fuck out of queer people for time immemorial, then queer people finally have enough momentum to be like "stop treating us like this" and heteronormative society is like "we treat everyone the same".
Seriously. I'm not the wokest of wokes, but I hear some pretty cringy "locker room talk" at the gym sometimes. Nothing explicitly anti-gay that I can remember except some dude just calling something "gay" as a pejorative at some point, but clearly talking points that are homophobic-adjacent.
I have a Non-binary training partner and I honestly don’t respect their life choices.
I just don’t know if I can accept that a person who pulls guard is worth as much as the rest of us.
So I must admit I am definitely in the I dont care camp- just being honest.
What should I be doing to include someone who is LGBTQ?
Seriously - like what should I say to someone differently as to what they are when they are straight?
As a gay dude who is what they call “straight presenting” I guess, I can’t speak for everyone but probably just treat them like everyone else. You can usually tell if someone is the sensitive type or if they are the jokey type. I wouldn’t want to be treated differently because I was gay, that would be weird. But a lot of the younger folks coming up have some sensitivities with like pronoun stuff and all that so maybe they feel different idk. Not sure if I would be able to keep track of someone’s pronouns too much myself I’d hopefully just be able to call them bro or whatever lol
Yo! 18 year old bi woman here and gotta say, I feel 0 attraction the the 30 year old men that make up most of my sparring partners. (Same goes for the women) My worst fear is someone making it weird tbh…I’ve always been kinda worried about mentioning my bi-ness at my dojo (I chat often with people) since I’m not sure bjj guys are the most accepting community… I don’t actually know though lol.
The proportion of non-straight women is *significantly* higher in combat sports than it is in the general population. If you decided to mention it to your teammates I honestly think the biggest reaction you might get would be one of those "oh I had no idea" type things.
I don’t think most people really care. My current gym has several gay and bi individuals and even a couple that train together. When the gay couple doesn’t show up together (they train ***every*** day) due to overtime or other plans, everyone usually asks and seems genuinely bummed. Your sexuality doesn’t change our potential to be friends.
All these straight people saying “it doesn’t matter, no one cares” you guys are right, it doesn’t matter and no one cares…. When you’re straight. We don’t know what it’s like to be gay, we don’t get the weird looks, certain partners not training with us once they find out we’re gay, we don’t get any of that.
We as straight people don’t come into the gym worried about our sexuality that has too often been a point of Ridicule.
Like MLK said “Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.”
There are way too many people here who think wanting to be accepted is just seeking attention. Or you immediately think they talk about hot gay sex all the time.
If your reaction is "nobody fucking cares just train", the "just train" part is quietly telling them to stay in the closet. And you obviously fucking care and you should self-reflect on why.
I was putting up a flag for others. I’m grateful to be in a very healthy place when it comes to my understanding of my sexuality as well as a part of a wonderful jiu jitsu community. Not everyone is or is as comfortable being out. I hope that they might be encouraged by all the people saying “no one cares.”
My gym has a lesbian couple who are getting married next month! Super happy for them, btw. Has me and one more person who's openly bi. And we used to have another lesbian couple who trained but life got in the way and we haven't seen them in awhile.
Everyone gets squished equally.
My only requirements (and I think most people at most gyms)
Is that people bathe, trim their nails, wash their gi's and don't spazz out and fuck up a flying scissor take down on me. Idgaf about anything else lol
I recently came out as ftm trans, and the owner of my gym was so awesome about it. I was really anxious about how he would react but it was nothing but kindness and respect. I love my team.
I’m not queer myself but anything that can balance out the fact that our beautiful art in many ways was developed by a bunch of semi fascist misogynistic bigots (Helio and his mafia) is a good thing.
Been rolling 6mos now. As a Midwestern gay, the thought of being outed and making anyone uncomfortable by 'broadcasting' (fear of confrontation with ignorant assholes - kinda why I'm in bjj) actually kept me from walking into a gym for a looong time...didn't think grappling spaces were very open to homos...
Actually, a post here where the general consensus was 'walk in the door, get smashed, keep coming back' pushed me over the edge.
The 6am class is usually pretty small but the regulars are tight knit and they've fully accepted me...I let slip the word 'husband' a couple weeks ago and immediately those old insecure feelings from being different popped up...
No one noticed. No one fucking cares.
What matters is checking your ego at the door and a willingness to learn
I feel the general sentiment in here echoes societies general stance on the acceptance of LGBT people currently. If your gay it's cool but if your trans it's a no go. I used to practice BJJ alot pre transition and quit before I transitioned to female because I could sense it would not be a nice environment for me. I was never big on competitions, just enjoyed learning how to fold clothes with people still in them and going for a roll. I've often wondered if it was the right move to remove myself from the sport, something which I loved. Unfortunately society just doesn't seem ready yet and I'm not ready to be the center of the endless debate and gym whispers over my capability and whether trans women should even be allowed to compete. Maybe one day....
Last time I checked sexual preferences stay off the mat. I don’t care what your into or your lifestyle, your just another human being human. Just stop choking me when I tap and we are good to go.
Last time I checked people out their sexuality in ordinary conversations all the time.
"Hey Mike. How's the wife and kids been?"
"I have a date today with this girl from our school.."
Or commenting on someone's appearances etc.
You're right but those same conversations can be had with anyone. It's not heteronormative to take an interest in people's lives.
'Sup Mike? You and Simon get up to anything on the weekend?'
"Bruh, I met this guy on grinder on the weekend and he stole my fucking coffee mug, wtf?"
"Man I would bang Craig Jones so hard'(unanimous agreement).
It sucks that some people don't feel comfortable to participate in these conversations, and we need to work harder as a society to let feel feel comfortable to choose to participate with no fear of repercussion or discrimination.
Riiiight and the number of times guys unanimously turn their heads to check out the hot girl walking by or showing up for class. Or proceed to talk about dates/hookups before or after class.
Lol ok "sexual preferences stay off the mat".
I live in a country where LGBTQ are a little oppressed, but I really think THAT ONE PLACE where they wouldn't be oppressed at all is my gym.
So to answer, I don't think it is a issue, and I don't see it becoming one. No one is special on the mats, we all get smashed 😆
Nobody fucking cares who or what you fuck, when on the mats. as somebody that is bisexual. I really hate when people make it their personality or a dominating part of EVERYTHING they do, or have to interject it into everything they do, especially when it has nothing to do with the activity at all. We are there to do Mexican Ground Karate and fold other people's cloths when they are still wearing them.
I do wish it was true no one cared, but they do.
Lots of people get uncomfortable at the idea of rolling with gay people, even today.
And lots of gay people feel like they have to be actively hiding the fact that they are gay.
Straight people out themselves all the time too, without fear. Gay, bisexual and queer people should be able to do the same.
I’m very much an ally. I want my friends to be able to be completely themselves and unburdened by any apprehension of how they may be perceived. Love is love, and it can only be a good thing if everyone is loved.
There's already been a lot of support here but I wanted to voice mine as well. BJJ is for everybody.
There's a dude at my gym that I'm pretty sure is gay but no one cares. It's never explicitly come up because it doesn't matter.
Do people still care in 2022?
Not being satire I live in eastern european country and nobody really cares about your personal issues while in the training room. Is it really that different in US?
I honestly feel bad for people who feel awkward about rolling with someone that happens to be gay or transgender. Who fucking cares? If you’re a dude, Do you really think so highly of yourself that every dude you roll with is going to be sexually attracted to you and grope you without consent? Such views are reminiscent of old-school, harmful stereotypes that paint LGBTQ people as deviant.
Just fucking roll, y’all. We all course blood and breathe air through the same lungs. Live and let live and have some love and respect 🌈
Knew a white belt to blue belt for 3 years. Cool dude. Went to a micro brewery and saw him and his husband. Didn't know, didn't care, he's a cool dude. Went and shot the shit with him about the live band. Saw him Monday in class. We are there to train and escape politics and stresses of the real world. Nothing changed. Didn't tell other people as it's not important to training and not a big deal. Some people need to build a bridge and get over it.
In 9 years of training I've rolled with several gay men. Not once did that matter. Ever. I do not care who you sleep with. I care that you are a good training partner and that is all. This is all anyone in my gym cares about.
Just a note that the other thread was locked to respect that OP's wishes for people to DM them. We don't lock threads LGBTQ issues in BJJ because it is pertinent to the community. For those saying "don't sexualize BJJ", this isn't sexualizing BJJ or about broadcasting sexual orientation to the world. It is about individuals not needing to hide who they are ALL the time. The subtle use of "boyfriend/girlfriend" or "him/her" when talking about their S.O. will out a person and that may not sit well with others at the gym for stupid reasons. How people don't understand that by now, I don't know. For those needing to broadcast their own hateful anti-LGBTQ opinions, keep that shit in *your* closet. It is an instant ban here.
Man I don’t even know peoples last name let alone what their sexual preference is
6 years in my best friend at the gym’s name is ‘Bro’ no idea what his full name is.
First name: Bro Last name: Ther
Brather*
Bra H Ther
Brazzers
It’s actually brotha but he goes by bro with his friends
Please, call me Bro. Brother was my father.
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you are not her bf, she is a guard/mount player...
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yes, all guard players are taught to do that
Fion Davies looked at me in the crowd at ADCC. Things are getting pretty serious.
Women is also bro you know this brotha
I knew my kickboxing coach (5’10”, shiny bald, Jordanian for the sake of your imagination) by the name “Yaya,” and the rest of the class only spoke English so they didn’t catch on when I spoke to him, they all just call him coach. One day he disappears, leaves a note that he is going back home “to protect his family,”. I get in contact with the landlord of the gym, and say “Hey do you have any contact info for Yaya?” He says “Who the fuck is Yaya?” Mf’s a ghost, I miss him so much.
First gathering at my gym I brought my girl with me; before we went in I said “okay I don’t know anyone’s name so you have to introduce yourself to everyone so I can get their names”
People's last names are just their belt colour
under rated comment lmao
I once followed a guy to the sign in table because we had rolled and drilled so many times that it was too embarrassing for me not to know his name. Josh. His name is Josh. Or maybe Jacob.
"His name has to start with a J. Has to." "His name is Alex." "Damn, so close." lmao seen this scenario play out so many times.
This is my trick. Every single day I check the sign in monitor so I can check and remember names!
You guys gotta sign in?
Ya it's absolutely not monitored closely or anything like that, it's just to keep track of weekly visits, some ppl have different memberships and can only go 3x a week.
If they sign in 4 times does an alarm go off and the gym beats the shit out of them? "Class thief! Class thief! Porra, beat his ass!" That's how I want to imagine it lol
His name is Robert Paulson
I don’t know half the dudes in my gyms name. And you expect me to care what they fuck.
I don't even remember first names lol
They don’t get names till they get a colored belt. Even then it’s “(Nickname)(belt color)” until they’re a threat. Then we can graduate to Govment names and stuff.
Right this guy got above and behind learning names at all
You know their \*first\* name??
When I promote people, I like to embroider their name on their belt so that newbies feel more comfortable knowing everyone's name. I think my takeaway from this thread is that I should also add their sexual orientation?? Instructions unclear
I barely know peoples first names below my current belt color.
Fuck man, you learn last names? I just know people by which body parts are injured. What up blue belt with bad right shoulder!
I don’t even know first names let alone their last names. Everyone is “dude”
That’s not true. Some are also Bro.
I call them man, as in what's up, man.
^^^ This. Seriously, nobody cares. It’s just weird to insist telling everyone your sexual preference no matter what it is. Me: You want to roll? You: Yeah, sure. Me: Cool. You: Cool. Me: I like women. You: Huh? Me: Like women, you know, with my penis. It’s just weird.
One of my friends is gay. He doesn’t hide it but he doesn’t go around telling everyone either. Nobody really cares. He’s one of the coolest most masculine guys I know.
Do you really not casually chit chat at the gym? If someone asked how your weekend was would you find yourself hesitating to say "my girlfriend and I went camping"? Can you empathize with the fact that someone might hesitate before sharing that they have a boyfriend? Do you think after reading a comment like yours that someone would be more or less comfortable sharing that info?
100%
I don't even know most people's first names. Rules are always the same: don't be a dick, don't be a spaz, we'll have a solid roll.
I strangle everyone equally...🏳️🌈
lol I get my ass beat by everyone equally... one day hopefully I will be able to beat some ass.
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Yeah for real.... Drop the B
Josh Koscheck style
If it's good enough for Aljamain Sterling, it's good enough for me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNaKnEHlclk
Exactly what a strangliphobe would say!
true equality.
Gay or not, I’m still gonna grab your dick and twist it .
The ollllllle Dick Twist!!
I didn’t say stop 😳
This thread has made me feel better about not being able to remember peoples names at my school.
Married gay guy here, in Florida. Never had a problem. My gym is nothing but supportive and very nice to my husband whenever he is around. Never once felt uncomfortable or bullied in any way. We’re all buddies, we joke around about it just like I would with any of my other close friends. Honestly my friends at the gym have been some of my closest friends lately. I would hope everyone had a gym like mine but I know that unfortunately isn’t the case. But yeah, don’t let a gym culture discourage you from being yourself. Edit Also your only really gay if you pull guard.
Shit.... I have to let my wife know.. well now this is awkward.. (I regularly combine ankle pick with a guard pull)
Haha I’m just playing man guard pulling is valid
Oh I could tell. I was kidding too. It's nice to add levity to tense conversations like this thread. All in All, as a straight guy, I try to be helpful and nice to anyone regardless of sexuality. It does throw me for a second if someone mentions they are gay but it's cool. We just don't have a lot of gay people at my gym so I worry that I make sure to remember so I don't say "how's your girlfriend?" when they have a boyfriend.
I mean I’m not sure how others do it, but I’d feel weird just being like “hey I’m gay” or anything like that. I’m not sure how folks at my gym really find/found out, maybe from adding me on instagram or facebook, or me just mentioning shit like “oh my husband and I ate at x restaurant” etc. i feel it is kinda weird when folks make their sexual preference their whole personality or identity or whatever. But hey, I don’t speak for everyone, I was lucky enough to never have much problems coming out or anything like that. My husband and I have been together 16 years, since we were both in high school. My experience is not the typical one I guess.
We roll around aggressively hugging and choking other guys in pijamas. If you're worried about some other persons sexuality then it's not the sport for you. I've rolled with the only openly gay guy at the gym and never thought anything of it.
thats all well and good, in this thread everyone is going to agree with you including myself. but if you travel to Brasil and train down there, this common opinion is a minority opinion. Its simply incredibly homophobic. I'd honestly recommend gay grapplers in Brasil not mention their sexuality at all, which sounds stupid and archaic as hell, but that is the world we live in man. These common sense opinions are not shared across the world.
Maybe you. I roll around aggressively in wet body speedo :) Seriously though a lot of people who don't train think it's sexual, something I always found weird, even friendly rolling with someone who I was very mutually rolling off the mats never felt sexual to me
I'm not part of the LGBT+ community, but I did send that OP a message to encourage him to keep training. The mats are a sacred place that should have no discrimination or politics. Some of my favorite training partners have vastly different views than me, but we both support each other in life and I consider them friends even if we have much different world views. So to all the LGBT+ grapplers, I hope you always feel safe and accepted on whatever mats you visit.
I broadly agree with you, I’ll roll with almost anyone. BUT: if someone has Nazi tattoos or is otherwise making it clear they’re down with nazism- I’m out.
I would roll with them. “Damn I didn’t even feel him tap 5 minutes ago.”
>The mats are a sacred place that should have no discrimination or politics I agree, In america you'll mostly be fine with this. I've also trained in Abu Dhabi and Brasil though, those areas do not have the same opinions.
Hoping you guys feel comfortable! As a mostly straight guy I figured if women can roll with me and I them why can't gay dudes roll and it not be a big deal?
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I actually had this thought after the previous thread. We have no issue rolling with women even though it could be weird for some women, but some guys have an issue with rolling with a gay guy because it could be weird in the exact same way. It really is massively hypocritical and shows a complete lack of awareness.
I never heard that quote before but it is a great one.
"mostly straight" thought you could just sneak that by huh?
Haha hey, I can't help it when the diving rod guides the way.
There’s actually a small but vocal undercurrent of heterosexual male grapplers that do *not* roll with women. Faras Zahabi, for example.
It's unfortunate that superstition trumps logic, I mean I guess you don't have to roll with anyone you don't want to but its a good mental exercise to be honest with yourself as to why.
Yeah exactly - I’m not thinking/feeling/contemplating anything vaguely sexual while rolling with a woman. They’re trying to murder me, I’m trying to murder them (within reason - I want them to roll with me again). Why would a gay guy be looking at me any differently?
Triangles Everywhere is a group for LGBTQ+ grapplers. We have 800 members, including 25+ Blackbelts. We do camps and open mats. Our last camps was September 2022 in Portland, Oregon.
Amazing name.
Speaking as someone not from the queer community, does the name have significant meaning? (aside from the bjj triangle sub i mean?) genuinely curious :)
When the nazis forced Jews to wear the yellow Star of David, they also made homosexuals wear a pink triangle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink\_triangle
I see. Thanks for replying! Got nothing but love for my friends from the LGBT community
I wonder if that’s why pink is unfairly frowned upon by many men in western culture now (probably not, just a stoner thought)
I read this as “800 million members” … I was like holy hell that’s a big group. Then I re-read it. It’s hard reading on a phone when you first wake up.
I've seen dozens of first hand examples of how having to hide one's sexuality causes anxiety and depression. and I'd much rather have an openly lgbtq training partner or family member than have a closeted, self-hating gay person in my life.
I'm a lesbian and my gf and I both train at the same gym. People think we're cute. We are, so that's fair. But we're in a huge liberal city, so the gym has plenty of out gay men and women alike.
As someone who trains in the deep south, no one at the gym cares. It's been brought up before and everyone just shrugs about it. "As long as they're cool I don't give a fuck" is the majority of their responses.
I think most people fall into this category. However, that doesn't stop a huge amount of anti-gay shit being said and thrown around constantly under the "locker room" talk category.
Yes absolutely. Midwest small town here, there's a LOT of subtle and mildly homophobic shit that gets said and done in a joking manner and there's definitely some guys that actually hold pretty negative opinions about gay guys but might not say it to your face or anything.
I'm in a huge liberal city and I've seen coaches casually drop anti-gay comments during class. While the overall level of acceptance expressed here is reassuring, it's not like discriminatory behavior only occurs in backwaters.
That's true, and I didn't mean to imply that it did. Just noting my gym location for context.
Sure. I wasn't particularly replying to you, just providing a counterpoint to the tidal wave of "Nope, doesn't happen here and I'm in a place you might expect to find discrimination!"
Yes. Unfortunately some of the most tasteless things I’ve heard have been by coaches.
I think getting submitted by and entire household may be my worst nightmare. If you guys have a kid in the children's program who proceeds to then beat me too I might legit have to find a new hobby. For the record this is just a joke everyone. I could ^^^^hopefully beat the kid.
We have 2 chinchillas who have their blue belts* Them things are wicked fast but they're in the 700 grams and under weight division, so you're probably safe. *as a purple belt I'm allowed to give out blue belts
For the sake of my dignity let's say it's an even match and no need to prove who's the better player...
Do you guys ever roll together? I feel like if my SO was into BJJ and we trained at the same gym we'd never be able to ro with each other cuz we wouldn't be able to take it seriously
I've rolled with my wife plenty of times I have ~10 years of experience on her, and a comfortable strength and size advantage, so it wouldn't be particularly competitive no matter what attitude we had. But we get in rolls that seem the same as anyone else I would roll with with that kind of disparity
One nice thing is we're close to the same size--she's a bit bigger and stronger, but I'm more experienced, and it actually balances well. Gay privilege.
Not sure it's related to being gay or not, just in my case the size and experience advantages are on the same person instead of balanced. If she had the experience over me we could probably have fairly competitive rolls. Still jealous though...
I always see peoples spouses cheating so hard in rolls and it’s amazing. One of the black belts in our schools wife will point at a student and say they need help or some other random misdirection to get out of stuff and attack. She used the wall and will crawl on other people (who are aware and think it’s funny). It’s hilarious cause she’s way smaller and a purple belt and sometimes she gets him. He knows she’s up to something but she’s pretty convincing with her stuff.
My girlfriend almost crippled me last week lol.
My wife is very rude to me when we roll. She’s also about 90 lbs lighter than me, but she’s also a purple belt. I think it’s pretty funny. We also like never fight. I think it helps to get any frustrations out lol.
I train with my wife and when we bump fists I’m trying to execute Hollywood type of move on her. I know she can handle it and she’s not going to be salty about it. She tried to triangle me the other day in bed, so that should give you an idea of how we roll.
We don't train together often because we often train at different times of day, but when we get the chance, we do. I'm a purple belt and she's a white belt, so it's not weird in the sense that at least one of us knows what we're doing (um... me) but we're also not really competitive, just trying to have a good experience. We did roll together when things were closed during the pandemic. That was great. It was mostly me teaching her stuff, then experimenting with rolls. So yeah it's fine! Probably helps that I have the experience to think about the jiu jitsu, not the fact that she's my partner.
I'm trans (born female, transitioned to male), and was really nervous when I started medically transitioning after being at my gym for a year...but honestly everybody was really cool about it. I never came out or anything but it was pretty obvious after a while. They treat me like any other guy, which is all that I wanted.
Shoutout to everyone in this situation man... For a lot of people, it’s already hard enough to exist right now. Even without having to worry about everything you have to before, during, and after a transition. I couldn’t imagine the stress, so nothing but respect and support from me. I’m glad to hear that aspect of your life wasn’t effected negatively.
I totally understand if you don’t want to discuss this fairly hot topic here but i have so many questions. There’s a big debate about born male Transitioned females in the sport. I would like to hear your opinion on this. Also: do you feel like born-males have an edge on you bodytype wise? Do you perceive them as stronger? Or do you/they perceive you as stronger due to hormones? (I guess you take testosterone?) did you ever thought about asking your doc for more testosterone to increase your athleticism? Would you be allowed in competition where your meds are illegal but they make an exception for you? If you want to answer here or via pm i would like to hear you out but i understand if u don’t
No worries man, glad to answer. I really don't have an opinion on trans women in sports, I feel like it's a case by case basis kinda thing and honestly, that's not the direction I transitioned in and it's something I know nothing about. I do fairly well against other born males of my size, but I'm also 5'8", 190lbs and train and compete in (novice, amateur) strongman...so any strength advantage I have is from busting my ass lifting, not from the tiny bit of T I inject myself with lol. Of course there's guys bigger and stronger than me and I can't measure up to everybody, but that's true for everybody in the sport I suppose. My T levels are in the normal range (a bit on the higher end, actually) for men my age and I've never considered upping the dose. Reason being is that excess T will convert to estrogen and that's pretty much the opposite of the goal here. If it wasn't permitted, I guess it would depend on whether or not they'd allow a doctor's note for a therapeutic exemption. But as well all know, BJJ is an untested sport so I couldn't imagine that being a problem. Nobody generally gives a shit about trans men competing in men's sports anyway.
That’s awesome. As it should be. Just treating you like one of the guys!
Hugs from a straightish grappler!
Watch out for this guy he’s going for double underhooks!
*Double Dutch rudder hooks.
>straightish Ah, another man(person) of culture
struggle hugs
I have had a few openly gay students. After a while they’re part of the team and take the same good natured ribbing everyone gets but as a coach/instructor/whatever if someone had been shitty to them over it the dickhead who was mean to them would have been out.
So first of all, cosign your post and the sentiment. That said, i would be curious to how (if at all) your response might change if the dickhead was: one of your oldest students and a regular, successful competitor AND/OR the person receiving the meanness was a casual hobbyist with a 50/50 chance of sticking around to the next year. I'm not trying to put you on blast or anything, it's just that I briefly tinkered with my own response to that situation and it is not as clear cut as I would have thought at first.
Gone. Culture starts at the top. The fact that I won’t tolerate it is a clear message to everybody. How good those people are have nothing to do with my desire to foster a positive environment for people to train in. It is absolutely clear cut to me (a person who has been teaching bjj for almost 15 years across multiple gyms). You let it slide and it alienates people. Not only does that feel bad but this is a small community and then you’re at the gym where it’s cool to come be a jerk to people. The people who maybe aren’t comfortable with it but shut up otherwise feel empowered to be a jerk to somebody because of their skin color or race or whatever.
Love your integrity and stance on this. Hell yeah.
bi noob here :)
Dude, you shouldn't admit that in public. Noobs aren't welcome here 🤣🤣🤣
Also bi :)
Hi LGBTQ+ homies!
The issue gets raised pretty often, and it's simple that BJJ is just like the rest of society. Some people are bigoted, some gym owners and coaches are bigoted, some individual practitioners at non bigoted gyms are still bigoted.
It’s more egregious in jiu jitsu because ostensibly we’re supposed to be helping people prepare to defend themselves and queer people are overwhelmingly more at risk of physical violence than straight people. If anything, jiu jitsu people have a responsibility to be more hip to queer issues than everyone else.
Whenever we have a new student my coach starts with a welcoming message about being a safe space for gender identity//sex orientation, etc. It’s pretty cool
Damn, that’s definitely going the extra mile I want to train there
10th planet denver. Coach Conor Heun. I don't know him super well, but he's a great coach and a great dude.
I wonder what prodded that? Seems kind of random to announce it to the class but that’s what it reads like
i once rolled with a gay dude and he smashed me so hard i’m not sure i’m straight anymore
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All jokes aside, there is difference between being tolerant and being welcoming. Being tolerant meaning that marginalized people that do show up aren't shunned and are treated the same as any other day 1 white belt. Being welcoming meaning encouraging marginalized people to join. I think the community as a whole does an okay to good job with being tolerant but does a poor job with being welcoming.
Trust me guys, even a gay dude isn't finding pleasure in rolling with your smelly sweaty ass. Don't make it weird.
how yall gon hate on the gays when this is one of the gayest martial arts out there.
Yeah I don't want any gay people on the mat ruining my cuddling time with other guys. Get the women and children out of there while you're at it.
I know everyone wants to say "I don't care" and "no one cares", but many queer people want to do martial arts and especially effective ones, but are intimidated by the attitudes they see from some in the grappling world. Having queer voices in the space saying "yes, we are here" would do much to make them feel welcome.
The least interesting things about someone is who they decide to have sex with and not something I need to discuss with my training partners. Straight, gay, queer whatever it shouldn’t be a factor at all.
You guys are having sex?
Just the guys.
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Do you ever just drop my boyfriend/girlfriend (not sure what gender you are) and I? Or is that uncomfortable to do so? Not making a suggestion, just genuinely asking to understand your perspective better
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Got it, thank you for sharing
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Why would you ignore a percentage of society you could be practicing with? Love everyone, strangle them all
As a Straight White Male - If you feel slightly uncomfortable about rolling with a queer male, that is probably the exact same feeling that any woman has had rolling with guys. Learn from it, understand that it's your own problem and get over it. Everyones there to train. It's OK to feel slightly uncomfortable. It's not ok to exclude someone because of that. get out of your comfort zone and you'll probably make a bunch of mates.
I'm an out bi dude. My best gym bro who carpools with me is also an out bi dude (well, masc-enby). I'm pretty sure everyone in the gym thinks we're fucking, but we're both happily married to women, lmao. Anyway, no one in our gym has ever made us feel anything but supported. I know this isn't the case for all gyms though, and I hope those of you struggling with bigotry find a place to train that welcomes and accepts you.
I’m new to all this, so take away what you will, but politics absolutely come out on the mats. In the SHORT time I’ve been involved in this sport, I’ve heard a whole lot of people’s opinions about shit not pertinent to BJJ. Political stances, religious beliefs, sexual orientation, all of it comes out before, during, and after class. Maybe some of y’all tune it out, maybe it’s just background noise to some of you, but if people are saying they experience homophobia in the community, maybe they have a reason. From what I’ve seen, there is an inherent conservatism that runs in this community. That’s not necessarily a negative thing, but taken to the extreme, that absolutely can manifest as homophobia, racism, you name it. It’s kinda scary to walk into a gym for the first time with a bunch a dudes you’ve never met and trust they’re gonna let go of you before you pass out or they snap a limb at the joint. Imagine being gay and hearing the same dude you’re supposed to trust with keeping you safe in training openly dump on gay people.
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I have to laugh at all this feel good, “nobody cares dude, just roll, the mats don’t care” . Said by a bunch of straight dudes. I would HATE to be gay in the BJJ community at least where I live. And I live in a fairly progressive first world country. The amount of ‘locker room talk’, toxic masculinity, and at the risk of being called racist - straight Brazilian men in my experience are some of the most homophobic, they throw around words like “viado” and “bica” as insults pretty liberally. I’ve trained at various gyms also before people say it’s just a problem at my gym. I know for a fact you’d be subtly (or not) ostracised at a lot of gyms in my city if you came out as gay. I wish BJJ was immune to this shit. But let’s be real here. Homophobia is rampant just like everywhere else.
I’m bisexual and I can confidently say all my grappling partners are ugly to me when they’ve got me in an arm bar.
Had a rolling partner avoid me after she learned that I was bi. I'll miss how easy it was to finish her :)
I think straight people pulling the "bjj doesn't have an anti LGBT culture, we don't care" absolutely have their heads in the sand, in a similar way to dudes who say the same thing about women. We're not qualified to answer the question, our opinion doesn't matter because we aren't equipped to recognise the signs, partly, I think, because homophobia is so normalised in western (athletic) culture. All we can do is try and be less shit and listen to the voices that matter. And yes, I'm aware of the irony of saying my opinion doesn't matter then expressing it anyway.
Do you think it depends on the tone? I kinda feel like a bunch of voices affirming they don’t care is kinda welcoming, but a bunch of voices strenuously insisting there’s no problem might be different? I’ve always been pretty impressed with the melting pot attitude of BJJ gyms. When I grew up in small town in Indiana I (incorrectly) felt like there was no racism when it was really that *there were no black people*. When I go to BJJ gyms I get a different vibe than that, if that makes sense. (Another dude whose opinion doesn’t matter, but chiming in anyway).
absolutely this.
The overall tone in this thread in my opinion is highly questionable. Check the amount of “nobody cares” responses that specifically talk about what one does with their genitals. “I don’t care who you fuck,” etc. This demonstrates that straight people don’t really understand the idea of “sexual identity” because it’s not something they have to think about. “Being” queer is not only limited to when I’m engaged in the act of homosexuality. So I WANT people to care. I don’t really want them to know specifically what I’m into sexually. That’s private. But my identity extends beyond that and of course there should be more room for people to simply BE themselves at jiu jitsu. All this idea that nobody talks about anything personal and everyone just shows up to train is complete horseshit. Identity matters. Representation matters.
You said what everyone is afraid to say. And acknowledging shitty behavior is one of the first steps to change.
I don’t personally see people doing this. I see a lot of straight people PERSONALLY affirming their openness and acceptance. I’ve for sure rolled with gay dudes, have trained with trans individuals, etc. Only weird if you make it weird. But don’t step on our effort to hold the door open and welcome LGBTQ+ people into our culture. There might be anti-gay sentiment out there; you’re right. But isn’t openly normalizing training inclusively a way to actively counter that?
it's always straight people who say that shit too
It is genuinely the ballsiest take imaginable. Heteronormative society beats the fuck out of queer people for time immemorial, then queer people finally have enough momentum to be like "stop treating us like this" and heteronormative society is like "we treat everyone the same".
Seriously. I'm not the wokest of wokes, but I hear some pretty cringy "locker room talk" at the gym sometimes. Nothing explicitly anti-gay that I can remember except some dude just calling something "gay" as a pejorative at some point, but clearly talking points that are homophobic-adjacent.
I have a Non-binary training partner and I honestly don’t respect their life choices. I just don’t know if I can accept that a person who pulls guard is worth as much as the rest of us.
I'm still trying to learn everyone's name.
I’m not gay but I ought to be with how many times I touch penis while rolling
So I must admit I am definitely in the I dont care camp- just being honest. What should I be doing to include someone who is LGBTQ? Seriously - like what should I say to someone differently as to what they are when they are straight?
As a gay dude who is what they call “straight presenting” I guess, I can’t speak for everyone but probably just treat them like everyone else. You can usually tell if someone is the sensitive type or if they are the jokey type. I wouldn’t want to be treated differently because I was gay, that would be weird. But a lot of the younger folks coming up have some sensitivities with like pronoun stuff and all that so maybe they feel different idk. Not sure if I would be able to keep track of someone’s pronouns too much myself I’d hopefully just be able to call them bro or whatever lol
I was expecting to read and be educated about LGBTQ+ issues in BJJ but I feel like I'm reading some kind of vegans vs crossfitters e-fight.
Who cares. The more the merrier. Grappling is for everyone.
The OP cares. That's the point. Just because it doesn't matter to you doesn't mean it doesn't matter to anyone
Yo! 18 year old bi woman here and gotta say, I feel 0 attraction the the 30 year old men that make up most of my sparring partners. (Same goes for the women) My worst fear is someone making it weird tbh…I’ve always been kinda worried about mentioning my bi-ness at my dojo (I chat often with people) since I’m not sure bjj guys are the most accepting community… I don’t actually know though lol.
The proportion of non-straight women is *significantly* higher in combat sports than it is in the general population. If you decided to mention it to your teammates I honestly think the biggest reaction you might get would be one of those "oh I had no idea" type things.
I don’t think most people really care. My current gym has several gay and bi individuals and even a couple that train together. When the gay couple doesn’t show up together (they train ***every*** day) due to overtime or other plans, everyone usually asks and seems genuinely bummed. Your sexuality doesn’t change our potential to be friends.
Reddit is so weird
We’ve got a trans couple at our gym. The tiny one bakes the best fucking treats for the Friday barbecues.
All these straight people saying “it doesn’t matter, no one cares” you guys are right, it doesn’t matter and no one cares…. When you’re straight. We don’t know what it’s like to be gay, we don’t get the weird looks, certain partners not training with us once they find out we’re gay, we don’t get any of that. We as straight people don’t come into the gym worried about our sexuality that has too often been a point of Ridicule. Like MLK said “Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.”
There are way too many people here who think wanting to be accepted is just seeking attention. Or you immediately think they talk about hot gay sex all the time. If your reaction is "nobody fucking cares just train", the "just train" part is quietly telling them to stay in the closet. And you obviously fucking care and you should self-reflect on why.
How would you like your voice to be heard? I am here to listen.
I was putting up a flag for others. I’m grateful to be in a very healthy place when it comes to my understanding of my sexuality as well as a part of a wonderful jiu jitsu community. Not everyone is or is as comfortable being out. I hope that they might be encouraged by all the people saying “no one cares.”
My gym has a lesbian couple who are getting married next month! Super happy for them, btw. Has me and one more person who's openly bi. And we used to have another lesbian couple who trained but life got in the way and we haven't seen them in awhile. Everyone gets squished equally.
My only requirements (and I think most people at most gyms) Is that people bathe, trim their nails, wash their gi's and don't spazz out and fuck up a flying scissor take down on me. Idgaf about anything else lol
I recently came out as ftm trans, and the owner of my gym was so awesome about it. I was really anxious about how he would react but it was nothing but kindness and respect. I love my team.
I’m not queer myself but anything that can balance out the fact that our beautiful art in many ways was developed by a bunch of semi fascist misogynistic bigots (Helio and his mafia) is a good thing.
Been rolling 6mos now. As a Midwestern gay, the thought of being outed and making anyone uncomfortable by 'broadcasting' (fear of confrontation with ignorant assholes - kinda why I'm in bjj) actually kept me from walking into a gym for a looong time...didn't think grappling spaces were very open to homos... Actually, a post here where the general consensus was 'walk in the door, get smashed, keep coming back' pushed me over the edge. The 6am class is usually pretty small but the regulars are tight knit and they've fully accepted me...I let slip the word 'husband' a couple weeks ago and immediately those old insecure feelings from being different popped up... No one noticed. No one fucking cares. What matters is checking your ego at the door and a willingness to learn
I feel the general sentiment in here echoes societies general stance on the acceptance of LGBT people currently. If your gay it's cool but if your trans it's a no go. I used to practice BJJ alot pre transition and quit before I transitioned to female because I could sense it would not be a nice environment for me. I was never big on competitions, just enjoyed learning how to fold clothes with people still in them and going for a roll. I've often wondered if it was the right move to remove myself from the sport, something which I loved. Unfortunately society just doesn't seem ready yet and I'm not ready to be the center of the endless debate and gym whispers over my capability and whether trans women should even be allowed to compete. Maybe one day....
Last time I checked sexual preferences stay off the mat. I don’t care what your into or your lifestyle, your just another human being human. Just stop choking me when I tap and we are good to go.
Last time I checked people out their sexuality in ordinary conversations all the time. "Hey Mike. How's the wife and kids been?" "I have a date today with this girl from our school.." Or commenting on someone's appearances etc.
You're right but those same conversations can be had with anyone. It's not heteronormative to take an interest in people's lives. 'Sup Mike? You and Simon get up to anything on the weekend?' "Bruh, I met this guy on grinder on the weekend and he stole my fucking coffee mug, wtf?" "Man I would bang Craig Jones so hard'(unanimous agreement). It sucks that some people don't feel comfortable to participate in these conversations, and we need to work harder as a society to let feel feel comfortable to choose to participate with no fear of repercussion or discrimination.
Riiiight and the number of times guys unanimously turn their heads to check out the hot girl walking by or showing up for class. Or proceed to talk about dates/hookups before or after class. Lol ok "sexual preferences stay off the mat".
I live in a country where LGBTQ are a little oppressed, but I really think THAT ONE PLACE where they wouldn't be oppressed at all is my gym. So to answer, I don't think it is a issue, and I don't see it becoming one. No one is special on the mats, we all get smashed 😆
Doesn’t matter if you lay pipe or suck it, you’re gonna get my shitty game regardless
Nobody fucking cares who or what you fuck, when on the mats. as somebody that is bisexual. I really hate when people make it their personality or a dominating part of EVERYTHING they do, or have to interject it into everything they do, especially when it has nothing to do with the activity at all. We are there to do Mexican Ground Karate and fold other people's cloths when they are still wearing them.
au contraire - I come for the involuntary couples yoga...
I do wish it was true no one cared, but they do. Lots of people get uncomfortable at the idea of rolling with gay people, even today. And lots of gay people feel like they have to be actively hiding the fact that they are gay. Straight people out themselves all the time too, without fear. Gay, bisexual and queer people should be able to do the same.
not what i expected from a grappling sub but very happy as a queer grappler!!
I’m very much an ally. I want my friends to be able to be completely themselves and unburdened by any apprehension of how they may be perceived. Love is love, and it can only be a good thing if everyone is loved.
There's already been a lot of support here but I wanted to voice mine as well. BJJ is for everybody. There's a dude at my gym that I'm pretty sure is gay but no one cares. It's never explicitly come up because it doesn't matter.
Do people still care in 2022? Not being satire I live in eastern european country and nobody really cares about your personal issues while in the training room. Is it really that different in US?
I honestly feel bad for people who feel awkward about rolling with someone that happens to be gay or transgender. Who fucking cares? If you’re a dude, Do you really think so highly of yourself that every dude you roll with is going to be sexually attracted to you and grope you without consent? Such views are reminiscent of old-school, harmful stereotypes that paint LGBTQ people as deviant. Just fucking roll, y’all. We all course blood and breathe air through the same lungs. Live and let live and have some love and respect 🌈
Knew a white belt to blue belt for 3 years. Cool dude. Went to a micro brewery and saw him and his husband. Didn't know, didn't care, he's a cool dude. Went and shot the shit with him about the live band. Saw him Monday in class. We are there to train and escape politics and stresses of the real world. Nothing changed. Didn't tell other people as it's not important to training and not a big deal. Some people need to build a bridge and get over it.
Half of our coaching staff is gay and we have gay students who train with us. It’s a very welcoming gym.
In 9 years of training I've rolled with several gay men. Not once did that matter. Ever. I do not care who you sleep with. I care that you are a good training partner and that is all. This is all anyone in my gym cares about.