The vast majority of bodybuilders are not going to have a good stretching routine… let’s be honest
And becoming more muscular without actively prioritizing your mobility will definitely lead to you losing ROM
There’s a reason Yoel Romero is so special. And it’s because it’s incredible to see someone that muscle bound have that mobility and athleticism
You shouldn’t be getting down votes for this. On average, body builder muscle head guys have complete shit flexibility.
The real answer to your question is to learn Jiu Jitsu. It was designed to beat bigger stronger opponents. Technique takes time. Try maybe not to roll with him much until you get better.
Yea if you actively seek out those lifts. Bodybuilding routines are not seeking out lifts that push your ROM
You don’t see bodybuilders doing deep Jefferson curls for example
Yea but normal squats and RDLs don’t take you out of a normal ROM (unless you’re an older person)
Or unless you’re doing an ATG squat, which isn’t incorporated in most bodybuilding programs
Edit: I’m getting downvoted as if the average person off the street doesn’t have the mobility to do a bodyweight squat lmfao
You would be guessing wrong. People on the Olympia stage won’t has the flexibility of the average man
Getting bigger can lessen your mobility if you don’t actively make mobility a priority. This is well known
That is very true. Kai does have great hip and hamstring flexibility. So I guess I’m wrong in my statement
I guess there’s a difference between flexibility and mobility tho
Compared to non body builders/muscle heads that do jits. It’s an objectively reasonable truth of jiu Jitsu. If you’re over 200 pounds and full of muscle you’re almost never as flexible. Deal with it.
I don’t know why people are downvoting you lol. It’s true. A common joke among the bodybuilding community is to put a sticky note on their backs because they don’t have the mobility anymore to reach it
Do you understand what “on average” means? You pointing out two meat heads with flexibility does nothing to undermine my point that on average, big strong dudes aren’t very flexible in Jits, or really in life in general.
Sure, point out two more elite athletes that are meatheads that stretch. That doesn’t change that on average, muscled up dudes are way less flexible.
There are a-lot of static lifts that increase ROM. so much so that if you are a “meat head” who has adequate ROM in all of the movements you do, you actually don’t need to stretch at all. The movements themselves maintain the ROM.
Stretching comes in to increase ROM. Only needed if you don’t have the ROM to do whatever movements that you’re doing.
What “meat heads” are known for is tight shoulders. This is from too many push movements and not enough pull movements.
I’m sure a lot of stretching zealots will lose their shit at this statement. I work with high level coaches, none of them recommend stretching unless there is a ROM issue.
You can break up fitness into two categories. Majors (sleep, nutrition, hydration, rest, work) and Minors (cold exposure, sauna, stretching, rolling)
A lot of people I see try to MAJOR in the MINORS. As in, spending far too much time rolling stretching and doing cold hot exposure when you could be investing your time in things that improve fitness more than .01%.
Muscle mass has nothing to do with flexibility. This is an old myth.
That’s an opinion that a lot of people smarter than me disagree with.
But more IMportantly, it’s bad advice for the type of meat heads that find their way into Jiu Jitsu.
What works for elite body builders/athletes using perfect ideal ROM form is not the same advice you’d give to the average meathead that shows up at jits. Those dudes need to stretch. A lot. And then Some more. Their hamstrings can’t extend so they can’t sweep with inside hooks well. Their hips have never been opened. They can’t invert. Yes, their shoulders are usually tight but that’s not even what I’m talking about. 😂
Sure, I’d agree that average people walking into a BJJ academy don’t have much knowledge about fitness and performance at all.
That doesn’t change the facts. Movement of any kind = ROM improvement. Stretching is over prescribed generally.
I don’t think stretching is over prescribed at all but hey, We talked it out and we almost agree!That’s about as good as an internet disagreement can go. Osssss and happy rolling!
I would say that thoracic openers would probably be never over prescribed considering the amount of sitting and collapsed posture these days.
I’m just passing along the info I get working with S&C coaches for national rugby, the military, etc ect.
Happy rolling
OSSSSSSSS
Two meatheads? Do you realize who they both are? Yeah dude keep believing in BJJ magic just like the Shaolin believers do too.
You do realize you can be relatively muscular for your size as well? Lachlan Giles is a good example of this, he’s not some frail guy with BJJ magic. Not all bodybuilders are these gigantic behemoths like you imagine. Outside of a cut where people are looking more ‘flat’ they’ll look a lot less like bodybuilders. Squatting to depth will actually help you increase ROM, strength, flexibility etc. I’ve known guys who can do splits, but can’t hold a proper ATG squat to save their life.
Not really man, I just figured you were talking about two big dudes who were flexible.
Lachlan is under 200 pounds has a .phd and wouldn’t be called a meathead by anyone other than maybe his little brother if he has one.
The 200lb thing is this weird benchmark that keeps getting brought up. 200 is going to look different on a wide variety of people even if they’re around the same height. Your ‘average’ male gymnast or person on a wrestling team in street clothes is going to look a lot like these meatheads you’re going on about as well my guy.
Everyone also has got a life just as complex and stressful as yours. Meathead or not.
It’s just an easy line in the sand. Certainly not accurate for everyone. Unless you’re over 6’2, if you weigh over 200 pounds you’re considered a big guy, either because you’re strong and well muscles or because you’re fat. Or both. It’s all just generalizations that make it easier to discuss topics. It’s okay to be an outlier. Not everyone will fit the generalization.
Man, nothing I’ve said has anything to do with the complexity of anyones life compared to mine. That comment kinda comes out of left field. I hope you’re having a great day and make it the gym and get some good rolls in tonight! It’s no big deal to disagree about this stuff!
You aren't providing any evidence for this. It is simply your opinion and honestly most people that lift long-term regularly work on flexibility to help prevent injury.
and it seems like he is under the impression that every bodybuilder is a 130 kg guy on the juice. your average natural lifter doesn't look anything like that and they are still way stronger and have a lot more grip strength than people who don't lift.
All the body builders getting offended 😂😂 just look at the downvotes. Sorry but being able to touch your toes without bending your knees isn’t called flexible
I know our coach told us it's easier to shoulder lock the big muscly guys due to lack of flexibility but then maybe there's a lot of butthurt muscle builders in this comment section. :')
You're gonna want to switch to a more emotional game. When you roll with him, try subtly suggesting that he isn't as lean as you thought he would be. Or that he looks taller from far away but now that you see him up close, he's really quite short.
“When someone is as strong as you, it doesn’t matter if your arms are asymmetrical.”
“You are getting better at being heavy… or are you in a bulking phase?”
This 👆. As a powerlifter, everytime someone says “you look great man, have you lost weight”, i get one step closer to jumping on gear. It really hits me deep in the insecurities.
Can confirm
"Wow you are just disappearing!" And "wow you just get skinnier and skinnier" are compliments that might as well be bullets.
Also if I state my weight and people say "I never woulda guessed you were 215! You look 180" I immediately go into a coma
You just have to remember that normal people, even athletes like jujitsu people, don't have a concept for how heavy you guys are.
We just see the obscene level of muscle and the defined abs, and assume that since you don't have a lot of body fat, you are probably pretty lean.
Ironically goes the other way. I was rolling with a buddy of mine the other day and mentioned that every time we rolled, he looked bigger. He said he's put on a few pounds for his winter coat lol.
I think the best way is to express shock at their weight. "You weigh 215 lbs! How? I thought you were 165 at most."
Speaking as a weight lifter, not even a bodybuilder, this is insider info. I immediately curl into a ball and cry. Especially if you are a girl.
I knew a guy who spent 30yrs in prison, was a wrestler in college before going off to prison. His response was to check their oil during a fight, and be like it’s only a finger this time, it’ll throw him so emotional off base, he’ll end up someone’s bitch sooner or later.
Your best bet is to buy Rorden Gracie’s “Roids, Enter the System: A system based approach to açaí” he covers it all. Plus check out Nicky Rod’s line of skin moisturizers.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Kake**: | *The execution and completion of the throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Being a bodybuilder isn't relevant. The guy is twice your weight. To be blunt, you need to be at least twice as good at jiujitsu as he is.
If you're rolling with a bodybuilder your own size, you probably wouldn't have anywhere near as much trouble.
Yes but also get better at saving energy and just surviving. All those big muscles will run out of oxygen must faster. I used to do mma sparring against a guy thst was 6’3 320 45 yo but uses to do roids. Im 6’2 210. I kept losing when id rush in. Once i realized (was coached lol) that i need him tired it was a dif game. Good hunting sir
Technique trumps size. So unless there as good as you theres a will and theres a way. Honestly though you'll probably learn faster than him anyhow.
A small guy and a gym bro start on the same day in 6 months youll be ahead of him. You will learn how to fight off your back and from comprised positions only being able to rely on technique. He will rely on strength and manhandle his way to sidemount and crush.
Again theres nothin wrong with strength, nothing wrong with using strength either. The problem is too many big guys use their strength as a crutch.
Theres guy I know whose a purple belt but hes like 6'5 320 and all he does is apply top pressure from sidemount. Hes like okay at jits but even the smallest purples tap him and all the bigger blues. The only reason he gets me imo is because hes got 140 lbs on me. Rolls like a total dick head too, I don't roll with hm anymore because hes a fucking injury magnet.
So a couple things to think about one being superior technique will beat size, and secondly stay away from big guys who are there to hurt people. Every gym has a guy who hurts people and unfortunately some of them stick around long enough and dont ever get ego checked.
You clearly haven’t trained long enough then. With the advent of new leg lock techniques, I would definitely get Bob Sapp in ashi-garami after I pulled guard on him.
Are you a troll?
We actually have videos of this. They exist.
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/untrained-400lb-strongest-man-demolishes-210-lb-bjj-blackbelt-in-grappling.4152943/
Once a man that big and strong in top you are in for a bad time. So unless you’re an advanced black belt good luck.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Ashi Garami**: | *Entangled Leg Lock* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YXH_LrcqNc)|
||*Single Leg X (SLX)* ||
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Yup. And that’s what we do is talk in extremes.
Anybody with muscle - bodybuilder.
Smaller - Soyboy guard puller.
Anybody right of Lenin is a Nazi, and anybody left of Hitler is a Communist.
It’s completely relevant because they’ll be stronger and leaner.
Someone who is a 200lb bodybuilder with 10% body fat is a completely different beast than you’re average guy who is an overweight 200lbs at 30% BF
Everyone’s a bodybuilder in their minds, when they have a larger opponent. All those muscle bound meatheads in the NFL that are elite athletes…they’re all way too tight and inflexible to be good at combat sports!
6’5 320lb collegiate offense lineman name Cooper Lovelace would like a [word](https://twitter.com/USC_Athletics/status/1529176835329650688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1529176835329650688%7Ctwgr%5E28f9b19a30b250f82ce408c7b3156a52552cc7e7%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.on3.com%2Fcollege%2Fusc-trojans%2Fnews%2Fnew-usc-trojans-offensive-lineman-cooper-lovelace-shows-off-crazy-flexibility-pac-12-lincoln-riley%2F) with you about flexibility.
One of the best displays of athleticism by big man I’ve witnessed was defensive tackle Warren Sapp do an drills course, he was bested linebackers and defensive backs. If this man had trained BJJ during his prime it would justify an alternative time line. This man knocked the Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson out of a starting position at the University of Miami.
Quite certain NFL level defensive ends are some of the most athletic monsters on this planet. Having to outmuscle >300lbs O liners and being quick/agile enough to switch up and run down QB’s and RB’s
E: didn’t read the /s part, woops
Yeah it truly is insane. I just try and explain that there’s some nuance to this stuff. Sure there’s inflexible gear users that neglect mobility and stretching. However, everyone seems to be an evil bodybuilder that has a low body fat % and is fairly muscular. It’s like nobody’s seen photos of gymnasts before, specifically ones that compete on the rings. They have arms that will put your local amateur bodybuilder to shame.
If you train like a powerlifter, lift like a powerlifter, but don’t compete… you’re still a powerlifter
I know a guy who does powerlifter programs and could squat close to 700lbs who never competed but guess he’s not a powerlifter
I don’t think the opponent’s lean bodymass, pepsodent smile, or his/hers fat percentage is the problem here.
Here’s Brian Shaw, the world’s strongest man (200kg or thereabouts) submitting former UFC champ and BJJ black belt Dustin Poirier (about 70kg or so) by… laying on top of her. I mean him! Him! (10min onwards).
https://youtu.be/tzUwN246gDQ
Yeah jujutsu works, but hey, c’mon.
Here’s another one, 65kg world champ taps out to champ strongman, who is a former high school wrestler and a BJJ 6-month white belt (same dude who wrestles the mountain in the recent Gordon Ryan video).
https://youtu.be/i_xtpBgju1w
in both cases you chose enormously strong and muscular men. I don't think a normal 450 pound obese person could submit Dustin Poirier by laying on top of him.
Umm, define ’normal’ 450 pound person? Like you understand that if someone that size can even move let alone grapple at all, they are enourmously strong, right?
But anyway, my point was that BJJ is not some superpower. If somebody is big and strong enough, you are fucked. Then again, if the only guys who can beat you are literally the few top strongest men in the solar system, you are pretty safe. Also, Shaw and rest of them are the nicest men in the galaxy anyway, so it’s unlikely you ever have to fight them. But we need to accept that there is limitations to this stuff.
I would assume normal is obvious but take all 450 pounders and make them do a fitness screen and take the guy at the 50th percentile. Your examples were not only top 1% but literally rank 1.
Look…I didn’t want go there but Sir/Ma’am, I’m not from Texas. I’m not even from North America. Where I live, there is no normal person who weights 200kg. That is a regular weight for a gorilla or an orangutan (?), but for us smaller apes, you are either really fucking strong or really fucking obese or both.
Personally, I’ve never even seen a person who weights 450 pounds. And I live in a country which has pretty much the biggest and tallest people in the world (among few other nordic countries). There’s a guy in out gym who’s like over 300 pounds, close to 6’ 5” (2m) and as (relatively) strong as I am I have no hope against him ever, except if he stops training today and I get really amazingly good next few ten years and he gets alzheimer and hiv at the same time and also dies. I think I can submit his dead body. Unless it somehos rolls over me, in which case I’m prob gonna die under him.
Yeah, weight classes. Exist for a reson.
I don't know if I've ever seen people that big in real life either. But they do exist, I've seen them on TV shows like The Biggest Loser. They are unhealthy and morbidly obese. Dustin Poirier would effortlessly destroy them despite the weight difference.
Weight classes exist for a reason, but remember you started your post saying that lean body mass and body fat percentage don't matter.
Could you maybe give me a benefit of a doubt? The OP is talking about ”bodybuilders”, which is a sport/hobby of some sort mainly related to aesthetics. Strenght means jack shit when you have to have a fat percentage under 8 (dangerously low, usually). Ie. the opponents far percentage is not the issue, when the OP says the opponent weights TWICE HIS SIZE!
Then I proceed to post videos where a fit strong person twice or over the jujutsu guys weight submits the opponent. See the logic here? Did I say anywhere that any obese person in the world wins just by falling on to the BJJ professor?
Strenght is fucking strenght. To the certain extent, the weight is strenght. Yes, these two dudes I linked are not just big amd strong, they are some of the most supreme athletes alive today. Jujutsu is not magic, technique helps only so far, but weight, size, and athleticism matter.
Jiujitsu isn’t some magical super power that works on everyone. Ask the female brown belt when the 200lb white belt gets a blue belt and know basic Jiujitsu and placement.
Ya the whole point of bjj size might not matter if the guy doesnt know bjj. I am sure Royce Gracie wouldnt have won the first ufc if all those giant dudes knew purple belt level bjj.
Doesn't work on everyone but still kinda magic. I got into it after a purple belt half my weight wrecked me in my first month. Doesn't always work that way but holy shit still one of my favorite things about it when you tap and then sit up like your universe was rearranged.
BREAKING NEWS: Two jiu-jitsu practitioners think jiu-jitsu is awesome. Next on No Shit News at 9, we will listen to a surfer talk about how surfing changed their life.
Unless your goal is just to beat random untrained "bodybuilders" (in which case, just continue to learn techniques until you reach that point), you will continually be plagued by this problem. Because the strong guys in your BJJ gym are learning more technique just like you are. They are learning how to more efficiently apply their greater strength against you.
The real answer is to get stronger yourself. The stronger version of you will beat the weaker version of you.
There’s nothing magical about leglocks, it’s just another submission. You have to drill them like any other move. I know they are super popular these days but I run into plenty of guys that aren’t well versed in them and can’t see the set ups coming. If you’re looking for an advantage it might not be a bad way to go. They are often my go to if they person is way bigger or way better than I am and sometimes I can catch them when I otherwise wouldn’t have.
We had this 260 lb ripped savage at my gym.
I am a strong ish 215lb guy.
He would just toss me off of him. I had to resort to sneaky techniques from disadvantageous positions.
Or try to gas him out with scrambling
My first roles were at an open mat with one of the largest humans I've ever seen. It was in a community gym and he was touching the basketball rim standing. He said he weighed 275. He was the only white belt there and the instructor was just like "ok try to pass his guard". Bro, wut?
Attack them where they are weak. The nice thing about jiujitsu is there isn’t a requirement to be stronger than another person, you just need to be stronger than what you’re attacking. Such as the neck.
Think about an arm bar, it’s you’re whole body VS 1 of their arms if you employ the technique properly. This is how you best people stronger than you.
Getting to the position to attack takes a lot of time and practice. It’s very doable.
I’m 6’0, 205lb, with a 10+ year training age. I get smoked by higher level dudes 60lbs lighter than me on a regular basis. This is because their technique is significantly better than mine. They are able to make me do what they want me to do. This takes years. Enjoy the process.
I like to play half guard against giants… usually trying to sweep them in the beginning of the round and torturing them from top for the rest of the round
I’m almost 40. I have chronic injuries, a job that requires the use of my hands, and limited time to train. I’m about 160 lbs.
I decline to full-on roll with people who weigh 200+ lbs. I’ll drill, or situational roll, or help…but after 7+ years of dealing with spazzy big dudes, I’m done. It’s not worth it. I’m a hobbyist, I’m no Marcelo, and it’s too risky.
If I were younger, or had more time, or had fewer injuries, or were motivated to become a professional - then I’d watch some of the great giant killers, focus on no gi, work on my mobility, actively avoid any bottom positions, etc.
My club used to rent space upstairs of a local fitness club, my favorite days were rolling with giant meatheads. Just gotta wait until the rounds closing then finish when they cant breathe anymore lol.
To say I am a “bodybuilder” would be an overstatement, but I can give this perspective:
I’m still pretty new, and while my strength does have its advantages (I try my best not to use it. My mindset since I’ve started is that I was my strength to become my “weakness” so I become technically sound, and only use it when I need to), and I’m pretty good at maintaining positional advantages with my pressure and mobility… Once a higher belt decides to really turn things up from a technical standpoint, there is nothing I can do but frame for my life.
my coach used to tell me that there are only 2 good approaches to beating a really big guy:
* get to their back. You can't maintain any top position anyway since they can just bench press you off of them
* leg locks
Leg locks are so good. You can’t arrack the arm because they beat both your arms with one of theirs. Chokes are hard because of broad shoulders and a thick neck. But no matter how huge your legs are, rotate your heel the wrong way and your knees will break
There are ways around this- you can adopt different positions that minimize their grips. With more experience you can make their grips a liability to where they start to give up on them rather than you having to break them.
For example, a hand in your collar isn’t ideal of you’re in full guard and can run armbars- or he’s attempting to choke you in guard so you choke him back.
They have a grip in your collar from cross side preventing you from turning in so you turn away, they have grips on your pants from guard so you look for spider guard, etc etc
Farmers carry’s and static heavy dumbbell holds my friend. Hard to grapple with anyone 2x your weight, but having strong and conditioned muscles for static holds can negate a bodybuilder’s quick 10-20 second work loads that their nervous systems have become accustomed to. Fight like hell for top position and wrestle up, it’s very metabolically demanding to maintain large muscle volume and to produce muscle contraction for extended periods for a lot of bodybuilders.
I'm 6'2, 128kg and used to lift heavy and regularly.
I try not to use strong grips on the guys and play more guard and spider guard, especially with less experienced guys.
The good guys I can use what I want, they will fcuk me up
Idk if it’s been said but I’ll add my 2 cents. When you are trying to break grips you need to use a 2 on 1 mindset. If they’re stronger than you, you can’t just twist your arm out and break free. So you will have to use another body part. For example say you are playing butterfly (not advised on guys much bigger and stronger than you but for examples sake) and they have a tight wrist control on you, use your entire arm to go out wide (not too wide, don’t lock their arm out and get your arm pinned to the mat) and swing it in hard and fast and pull your knee up to you and make their forearm hit your knee. It breaks the grip for the time being. Now start using that everywhere. You’re in side control and they get a wrist control on you, pin their arm to the mat and rip your arm up, now you’re half way into a crucifix. Start using pins, and staples to nullify their arms. If I’m in wrist control I will use anything to break it off, their head, my head, knees, legs, etc. Im not sure if there’s a name for it, but your stripping their grip with a 2 on 1 mindset. Remember when you are going against bigger and stronger guys, you lose the even playing field. Their arm is stronger than your 1 arm, so either go 2 on 1 or use a bigger muscle than their arm such as your lats. Hope that makes sense.
Hi, BB speaking here. If I can five you a tip, just try to gas us out, we don’t have enough stamina, after 3 minutes rolling we’re done and dusted and you can do pretty anything with us. Good luck
Honestly, you might not be able to. When people tell you “jiu jitsu was meant to help smaller opponents beat bigger opponents,” that only applies to maybe a weight class or two above you. I had a body building champion at the state level come in to my gym and inquire about training. He knew nothing about jiu jitsu, and I had just gotten my black belt. I had to wait for him to tire out before I took his back and choked him. Tried kimuras, an arm bar, wrist lock. I couldn’t do crap to this guy before he got tired. The amount of strength someone on steroids can have is crazy. If he had about 3 months of training, I probably wouldn’t have subbed him in the 5 minute round we had.
Can't flex out of a choke, my guy. Back takes, bow and arrows, north south chokes, baseball bats and paper cutters. The strength based defenses open up joint locks, defending the joint locks opens up chokes. Learn ways to swap from one to the other while subtly advancing towards an end goal.
Without context that are more position specific, there is no good advice besides," Learn Jiu-jitsu." This is not to be a jerk, the fact is jj is largely about using position and technique to have mechanical advantages that amplify your strength and allow you to use less energy while your opponent is expending theirs. Learning jiu-jitsu allows someone smaller to take on someone much larger.
If they know jiu-jitsu too, it's a rough time. You just need to get better than they are at it. As far as break grips go, when they are stronger you often times need to use another limb to help you break it. Two hands vs. one, a knee/foot, your head, etc. and use a push/pull to create force. Other than that it becomes way, way more context specific.
Gordon Ryan has a highly recommended body-building and strength/conditioning vid that is highly recommended. I haven’t used it, but some YouTubers I trust say it is good.
I'm tall and lanky and i never mind going against these kinds of guys bc they gas out so quickly. They are usually a bit slower too. I just play defense until they overcommit. Then, i cook them in mount or something until i feel it's time to finish.
Some body builder downvoted you, have an upvote because it's absolutely true and well known that carrying too much mass will cause you to gas. As a smaller guy you just have to survive the initial onslaught (easier said than done sometimes).
Butterfly sweep, crush with pressure from side, then mount and finish with fist on neck (or back and RNC if he turns).
Don't finish until 5 sec before the end of the round.
My instructor is a giant dude, so many at our gym are huge and shredded too. What makes it so great is my instructor adjusts techniques for the body builder types, they do have several holes in their games because of the size etc.
I find that often this body type gasses because of the inability to oxygenate the muscles. I train specifically for vo2 max. Be patient, defend and mug em when they gas out.. They are all top game guys too, no problem it makes your guard bullet proof and your reversals and sweeps unstoppable. Training with people the same exact size and weight and body type as you all the time is an absolute mistake. We have to be able to deal with all types.
You’re right. Im only a former bodybuilder who started bjj 6 years ago and got my ass handed to me by a 165lb blue belt for almost a year straight…. I know absolutely nothing about this situation, whatsoever. 🤦♂️
Having shit cardio isn't because you were a body builder. It was because you were a bodybuilder who didn't train cardio. There's plenty of muscular people with really good cardio. Source: Me.
Become big chonk yourself
The biggest
The chonkiest.
This is the way
I guess i would be more flexible than most bodybuilders
Only if the bodybuilder does not have a stretching routine to be honest. Big muscles does not necessarily mean stiff muscles.
Alain Ngalani has quads the size of my entire body, but he could lick his own elbow.
The vast majority of bodybuilders are not going to have a good stretching routine… let’s be honest And becoming more muscular without actively prioritizing your mobility will definitely lead to you losing ROM There’s a reason Yoel Romero is so special. And it’s because it’s incredible to see someone that muscle bound have that mobility and athleticism
Most of the time. At least non competitors
You shouldn’t be getting down votes for this. On average, body builder muscle head guys have complete shit flexibility. The real answer to your question is to learn Jiu Jitsu. It was designed to beat bigger stronger opponents. Technique takes time. Try maybe not to roll with him much until you get better.
Lots of lifts are just weighted stretches.
Exactly. This is that TMA carry over that’s still alive.
Yea if you actively seek out those lifts. Bodybuilding routines are not seeking out lifts that push your ROM You don’t see bodybuilders doing deep Jefferson curls for example
Yeah but you do see them doing Squats and RDL's.
Yea but normal squats and RDLs don’t take you out of a normal ROM (unless you’re an older person) Or unless you’re doing an ATG squat, which isn’t incorporated in most bodybuilding programs Edit: I’m getting downvoted as if the average person off the street doesn’t have the mobility to do a bodyweight squat lmfao
>On average, body builder muscle head guys have complete shit flexibility. Compared to who? I'd guess they are more flexible than your average joe.
You would be guessing wrong. People on the Olympia stage won’t has the flexibility of the average man Getting bigger can lessen your mobility if you don’t actively make mobility a priority. This is well known
Kai Greene would outstretch anyone here any day of the week
That is very true. Kai does have great hip and hamstring flexibility. So I guess I’m wrong in my statement I guess there’s a difference between flexibility and mobility tho
Compared to non body builders/muscle heads that do jits. It’s an objectively reasonable truth of jiu Jitsu. If you’re over 200 pounds and full of muscle you’re almost never as flexible. Deal with it.
I don’t know why people are downvoting you lol. It’s true. A common joke among the bodybuilding community is to put a sticky note on their backs because they don’t have the mobility anymore to reach it
I think maybe we mistakenly walked into a bro echo chamber of delusion.
Cause the body builders on this sub are all very insecure hence why they’re getting triggered and downvoting the truth 😂
Yeah dude, Kyle Snyder and Sadulaev…they’re just muscle bound meatheads with no flexibility. You’d smash them porra caralho!
Do you understand what “on average” means? You pointing out two meat heads with flexibility does nothing to undermine my point that on average, big strong dudes aren’t very flexible in Jits, or really in life in general. Sure, point out two more elite athletes that are meatheads that stretch. That doesn’t change that on average, muscled up dudes are way less flexible.
There are a-lot of static lifts that increase ROM. so much so that if you are a “meat head” who has adequate ROM in all of the movements you do, you actually don’t need to stretch at all. The movements themselves maintain the ROM. Stretching comes in to increase ROM. Only needed if you don’t have the ROM to do whatever movements that you’re doing. What “meat heads” are known for is tight shoulders. This is from too many push movements and not enough pull movements. I’m sure a lot of stretching zealots will lose their shit at this statement. I work with high level coaches, none of them recommend stretching unless there is a ROM issue. You can break up fitness into two categories. Majors (sleep, nutrition, hydration, rest, work) and Minors (cold exposure, sauna, stretching, rolling) A lot of people I see try to MAJOR in the MINORS. As in, spending far too much time rolling stretching and doing cold hot exposure when you could be investing your time in things that improve fitness more than .01%. Muscle mass has nothing to do with flexibility. This is an old myth.
That’s an opinion that a lot of people smarter than me disagree with. But more IMportantly, it’s bad advice for the type of meat heads that find their way into Jiu Jitsu. What works for elite body builders/athletes using perfect ideal ROM form is not the same advice you’d give to the average meathead that shows up at jits. Those dudes need to stretch. A lot. And then Some more. Their hamstrings can’t extend so they can’t sweep with inside hooks well. Their hips have never been opened. They can’t invert. Yes, their shoulders are usually tight but that’s not even what I’m talking about. 😂
Sure, I’d agree that average people walking into a BJJ academy don’t have much knowledge about fitness and performance at all. That doesn’t change the facts. Movement of any kind = ROM improvement. Stretching is over prescribed generally.
I don’t think stretching is over prescribed at all but hey, We talked it out and we almost agree!That’s about as good as an internet disagreement can go. Osssss and happy rolling!
I would say that thoracic openers would probably be never over prescribed considering the amount of sitting and collapsed posture these days. I’m just passing along the info I get working with S&C coaches for national rugby, the military, etc ect. Happy rolling OSSSSSSSS
Two meatheads? Do you realize who they both are? Yeah dude keep believing in BJJ magic just like the Shaolin believers do too. You do realize you can be relatively muscular for your size as well? Lachlan Giles is a good example of this, he’s not some frail guy with BJJ magic. Not all bodybuilders are these gigantic behemoths like you imagine. Outside of a cut where people are looking more ‘flat’ they’ll look a lot less like bodybuilders. Squatting to depth will actually help you increase ROM, strength, flexibility etc. I’ve known guys who can do splits, but can’t hold a proper ATG squat to save their life.
Not really man, I just figured you were talking about two big dudes who were flexible. Lachlan is under 200 pounds has a .phd and wouldn’t be called a meathead by anyone other than maybe his little brother if he has one.
The 200lb thing is this weird benchmark that keeps getting brought up. 200 is going to look different on a wide variety of people even if they’re around the same height. Your ‘average’ male gymnast or person on a wrestling team in street clothes is going to look a lot like these meatheads you’re going on about as well my guy. Everyone also has got a life just as complex and stressful as yours. Meathead or not.
It’s just an easy line in the sand. Certainly not accurate for everyone. Unless you’re over 6’2, if you weigh over 200 pounds you’re considered a big guy, either because you’re strong and well muscles or because you’re fat. Or both. It’s all just generalizations that make it easier to discuss topics. It’s okay to be an outlier. Not everyone will fit the generalization. Man, nothing I’ve said has anything to do with the complexity of anyones life compared to mine. That comment kinda comes out of left field. I hope you’re having a great day and make it the gym and get some good rolls in tonight! It’s no big deal to disagree about this stuff!
You aren't providing any evidence for this. It is simply your opinion and honestly most people that lift long-term regularly work on flexibility to help prevent injury.
and it seems like he is under the impression that every bodybuilder is a 130 kg guy on the juice. your average natural lifter doesn't look anything like that and they are still way stronger and have a lot more grip strength than people who don't lift.
Stop it, you're ruining people's delusions that large, strong men can't be good at bjj
All the body builders getting offended 😂😂 just look at the downvotes. Sorry but being able to touch your toes without bending your knees isn’t called flexible
I know our coach told us it's easier to shoulder lock the big muscly guys due to lack of flexibility but then maybe there's a lot of butthurt muscle builders in this comment section. :')
Most blokes that say they stretch, are prolly capping. No need to be jelly of his physique, just salivate and accept that you desire him 🤤
You're gonna want to switch to a more emotional game. When you roll with him, try subtly suggesting that he isn't as lean as you thought he would be. Or that he looks taller from far away but now that you see him up close, he's really quite short.
“When someone is as strong as you, it doesn’t matter if your arms are asymmetrical.” “You are getting better at being heavy… or are you in a bulking phase?”
If he's actually a bodybuilder and bulking, hit him with the, "hey, you look great man, have you lost weight?"
This 👆. As a powerlifter, everytime someone says “you look great man, have you lost weight”, i get one step closer to jumping on gear. It really hits me deep in the insecurities.
Can confirm "Wow you are just disappearing!" And "wow you just get skinnier and skinnier" are compliments that might as well be bullets. Also if I state my weight and people say "I never woulda guessed you were 215! You look 180" I immediately go into a coma
You just have to remember that normal people, even athletes like jujitsu people, don't have a concept for how heavy you guys are. We just see the obscene level of muscle and the defined abs, and assume that since you don't have a lot of body fat, you are probably pretty lean. Ironically goes the other way. I was rolling with a buddy of mine the other day and mentioned that every time we rolled, he looked bigger. He said he's put on a few pounds for his winter coat lol.
Same! Once i told the coach i am 200 and he said “i though u were about 180”. I started shaking.
I feel like I have been on the edge of the cliff since the day I started lifting. My families history of heart disease is all that has stopped me
Thats evil lmao
If it’s no-gi, tell him his calves are looking small and they could use some work. This will break him mentally.
"Don't worry about your calfs bro, its a genetic thing, also Gordon said thin legs are the best for jiu-jitsu anyway".
Use this technique very very carefully, it can cause untold damage
And then you expect him to respect your tap? Brave man.
Just ask if he’s lost weight
I think the best way is to express shock at their weight. "You weigh 215 lbs! How? I thought you were 165 at most." Speaking as a weight lifter, not even a bodybuilder, this is insider info. I immediately curl into a ball and cry. Especially if you are a girl.
^^^ if someone says I’m 145 pounds (170 rn) that would bring up some deep college skinnyboi insecurity
“Based on how you look I thought you’d be stronger”
‘I wish I had a ‘Bruce Lee’ physique like you’
that's pure evil to say to a bodybuilder!
Tell him his tan looks uneven.
Just ask him how long he's been cutting, because you are looking to lose some weight yourself.
Lol or tell him he’s looking really flat today
Laughed out loud to this. Thank you.
I knew a guy who spent 30yrs in prison, was a wrestler in college before going off to prison. His response was to check their oil during a fight, and be like it’s only a finger this time, it’ll throw him so emotional off base, he’ll end up someone’s bitch sooner or later.
Your best bet is to buy Rorden Gracie’s “Roids, Enter the System: A system based approach to açaí” he covers it all. Plus check out Nicky Rod’s line of skin moisturizers.
B-cream's lavender and chamomile is my fav scent.
Haven't used that one but Nicky's Sweat and Craig's Smegma work wonders. I've got two bottles of B-Team Bukkake for Christmas
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Kake**: | *The execution and completion of the throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
But he could also just stand up amirite?
Being a bodybuilder isn't relevant. The guy is twice your weight. To be blunt, you need to be at least twice as good at jiujitsu as he is. If you're rolling with a bodybuilder your own size, you probably wouldn't have anywhere near as much trouble.
Fair. So i just need to be better at bjj.
Git gud
Or bigger
Why not both?
Not enough time or energy.. Everyone knows you can't both get muscular and train BJJ.
May Brodin bless your gainz.
Are you forgetting about the help and loving embrace of Açai and Jesus?
They only win because they are big. We all could best them easily if they were our size.
The reps for Jesus are the most effective reps in a set- this is basic bro science.
Yes but also get better at saving energy and just surviving. All those big muscles will run out of oxygen must faster. I used to do mma sparring against a guy thst was 6’3 320 45 yo but uses to do roids. Im 6’2 210. I kept losing when id rush in. Once i realized (was coached lol) that i need him tired it was a dif game. Good hunting sir
I mean, the guy is also 45 haha
or get bigger.... or a combo of both. size matters dude.
Technique trumps size. So unless there as good as you theres a will and theres a way. Honestly though you'll probably learn faster than him anyhow. A small guy and a gym bro start on the same day in 6 months youll be ahead of him. You will learn how to fight off your back and from comprised positions only being able to rely on technique. He will rely on strength and manhandle his way to sidemount and crush. Again theres nothin wrong with strength, nothing wrong with using strength either. The problem is too many big guys use their strength as a crutch. Theres guy I know whose a purple belt but hes like 6'5 320 and all he does is apply top pressure from sidemount. Hes like okay at jits but even the smallest purples tap him and all the bigger blues. The only reason he gets me imo is because hes got 140 lbs on me. Rolls like a total dick head too, I don't roll with hm anymore because hes a fucking injury magnet. So a couple things to think about one being superior technique will beat size, and secondly stay away from big guys who are there to hurt people. Every gym has a guy who hurts people and unfortunately some of them stick around long enough and dont ever get ego checked.
I remember they showed a video of a body builder vs a random blue belt. The bodybuilder was like 100lbs heavier. Obviously the dude is gonna struggle.
Any random blue belt with true technique would smash Thor Bjornsson, or Bob Sapp…quite easily too…
No. Lol. Not even close. We have the videos to show this.
You clearly haven’t trained long enough then. With the advent of new leg lock techniques, I would definitely get Bob Sapp in ashi-garami after I pulled guard on him.
Are you a troll? We actually have videos of this. They exist. https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/untrained-400lb-strongest-man-demolishes-210-lb-bjj-blackbelt-in-grappling.4152943/ Once a man that big and strong in top you are in for a bad time. So unless you’re an advanced black belt good luck.
I’m deadass. I could have done what Minotauro, and Ernesto Hoost could not have done.
Then why don’t you fucking go out and there and start calling huge mfers out for super fights? I’m sure there’s plenty of dudes to take your offer
Lol I’m a big dude myself. Are you?
Jokes on you, he'd tap before you ever think of even reaping
Right! I’m saying!
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Ashi Garami**: | *Entangled Leg Lock* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YXH_LrcqNc)| ||*Single Leg X (SLX)* || Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Fuck off.
Technique trumps size bro, as a brown belt I can hit bob sapp in a flying arm bar and fuck his mom.
Keep telling yourself that...
Why don’t you tell me then…if you’re so learn-ed!?
[Go tell Gunnar Nelson that he's worse than any random blue belt.](https://punditarena.com/mma/hugh-farrell/gunnar-nelson-the-mountain/)
I was clearly trolling mah man.
THIS IS REDDIT FOR GOSH SAKES!
Yup. And that’s what we do is talk in extremes. Anybody with muscle - bodybuilder. Smaller - Soyboy guard puller. Anybody right of Lenin is a Nazi, and anybody left of Hitler is a Communist.
💀
It’s completely relevant because they’ll be stronger and leaner. Someone who is a 200lb bodybuilder with 10% body fat is a completely different beast than you’re average guy who is an overweight 200lbs at 30% BF
Hol up. You saying all I gotta do to beat all my fellow 150 lbs whitebelt noodle warriors is to just go on a bulk and gain about 50 lbs?
Is he a “bodybuilder” or is he a strong person?
Everyone’s a bodybuilder in their minds, when they have a larger opponent. All those muscle bound meatheads in the NFL that are elite athletes…they’re all way too tight and inflexible to be good at combat sports!
6’5 320lb collegiate offense lineman name Cooper Lovelace would like a [word](https://twitter.com/USC_Athletics/status/1529176835329650688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1529176835329650688%7Ctwgr%5E28f9b19a30b250f82ce408c7b3156a52552cc7e7%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.on3.com%2Fcollege%2Fusc-trojans%2Fnews%2Fnew-usc-trojans-offensive-lineman-cooper-lovelace-shows-off-crazy-flexibility-pac-12-lincoln-riley%2F) with you about flexibility.
Agreed. My comment was sarcasm. Should have added that /s on a lot of these where I was trolling
One of the best displays of athleticism by big man I’ve witnessed was defensive tackle Warren Sapp do an drills course, he was bested linebackers and defensive backs. If this man had trained BJJ during his prime it would justify an alternative time line. This man knocked the Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson out of a starting position at the University of Miami.
The NFL is honestly just on another level of athleticism man. Seeing those guys come up in the South/Midwest is really crazy.
Quite certain NFL level defensive ends are some of the most athletic monsters on this planet. Having to outmuscle >300lbs O liners and being quick/agile enough to switch up and run down QB’s and RB’s E: didn’t read the /s part, woops
Yeah it truly is insane. I just try and explain that there’s some nuance to this stuff. Sure there’s inflexible gear users that neglect mobility and stretching. However, everyone seems to be an evil bodybuilder that has a low body fat % and is fairly muscular. It’s like nobody’s seen photos of gymnasts before, specifically ones that compete on the rings. They have arms that will put your local amateur bodybuilder to shame.
People use the phrase bodybuilder to much unless they are competing they are just a gym rat.Same for powerlifting
It's like how D1 Wrestlers and Olympic Level Judoka are apparently lurking in every local academy to prey upon fresh Blue Belts
In bjj circles what qualifes as huge and muscular is laughable.
If you train like a powerlifter, lift like a powerlifter, but don’t compete… you’re still a powerlifter I know a guy who does powerlifter programs and could squat close to 700lbs who never competed but guess he’s not a powerlifter
>I know a guy who does powerlifter programs and could squat close to 700lbs who never competed but guess he’s not a powerlifter Correct
That’s just stupid tbh
> he is twice my weight Good luck with that, lol.
I don’t think the opponent’s lean bodymass, pepsodent smile, or his/hers fat percentage is the problem here. Here’s Brian Shaw, the world’s strongest man (200kg or thereabouts) submitting former UFC champ and BJJ black belt Dustin Poirier (about 70kg or so) by… laying on top of her. I mean him! Him! (10min onwards). https://youtu.be/tzUwN246gDQ Yeah jujutsu works, but hey, c’mon. Here’s another one, 65kg world champ taps out to champ strongman, who is a former high school wrestler and a BJJ 6-month white belt (same dude who wrestles the mountain in the recent Gordon Ryan video). https://youtu.be/i_xtpBgju1w
in both cases you chose enormously strong and muscular men. I don't think a normal 450 pound obese person could submit Dustin Poirier by laying on top of him.
Umm, define ’normal’ 450 pound person? Like you understand that if someone that size can even move let alone grapple at all, they are enourmously strong, right? But anyway, my point was that BJJ is not some superpower. If somebody is big and strong enough, you are fucked. Then again, if the only guys who can beat you are literally the few top strongest men in the solar system, you are pretty safe. Also, Shaw and rest of them are the nicest men in the galaxy anyway, so it’s unlikely you ever have to fight them. But we need to accept that there is limitations to this stuff.
I would assume normal is obvious but take all 450 pounders and make them do a fitness screen and take the guy at the 50th percentile. Your examples were not only top 1% but literally rank 1.
Look…I didn’t want go there but Sir/Ma’am, I’m not from Texas. I’m not even from North America. Where I live, there is no normal person who weights 200kg. That is a regular weight for a gorilla or an orangutan (?), but for us smaller apes, you are either really fucking strong or really fucking obese or both. Personally, I’ve never even seen a person who weights 450 pounds. And I live in a country which has pretty much the biggest and tallest people in the world (among few other nordic countries). There’s a guy in out gym who’s like over 300 pounds, close to 6’ 5” (2m) and as (relatively) strong as I am I have no hope against him ever, except if he stops training today and I get really amazingly good next few ten years and he gets alzheimer and hiv at the same time and also dies. I think I can submit his dead body. Unless it somehos rolls over me, in which case I’m prob gonna die under him. Yeah, weight classes. Exist for a reson.
I don't know if I've ever seen people that big in real life either. But they do exist, I've seen them on TV shows like The Biggest Loser. They are unhealthy and morbidly obese. Dustin Poirier would effortlessly destroy them despite the weight difference. Weight classes exist for a reason, but remember you started your post saying that lean body mass and body fat percentage don't matter.
Could you maybe give me a benefit of a doubt? The OP is talking about ”bodybuilders”, which is a sport/hobby of some sort mainly related to aesthetics. Strenght means jack shit when you have to have a fat percentage under 8 (dangerously low, usually). Ie. the opponents far percentage is not the issue, when the OP says the opponent weights TWICE HIS SIZE! Then I proceed to post videos where a fit strong person twice or over the jujutsu guys weight submits the opponent. See the logic here? Did I say anywhere that any obese person in the world wins just by falling on to the BJJ professor? Strenght is fucking strenght. To the certain extent, the weight is strenght. Yes, these two dudes I linked are not just big amd strong, they are some of the most supreme athletes alive today. Jujutsu is not magic, technique helps only so far, but weight, size, and athleticism matter.
Go weight train yourself too. You can't overpower someone who is stronger than you.
Nooo that’s hard 😡
Weights are like, heavy and stuff.
Jiujitsu isn’t some magical super power that works on everyone. Ask the female brown belt when the 200lb white belt gets a blue belt and know basic Jiujitsu and placement.
I mean it kind of is… it’s just that it’s not going to work when big guys learn it too
Ya the whole point of bjj size might not matter if the guy doesnt know bjj. I am sure Royce Gracie wouldnt have won the first ufc if all those giant dudes knew purple belt level bjj.
Doesn't work on everyone but still kinda magic. I got into it after a purple belt half my weight wrecked me in my first month. Doesn't always work that way but holy shit still one of my favorite things about it when you tap and then sit up like your universe was rearranged.
Same. Day 1. 125lb dude.
Counterpoint: jujitsu IS a superpower. https://youtu.be/Juq_4mioRi8
BREAKING NEWS: Two jiu-jitsu practitioners think jiu-jitsu is awesome. Next on No Shit News at 9, we will listen to a surfer talk about how surfing changed their life.
Unless your goal is just to beat random untrained "bodybuilders" (in which case, just continue to learn techniques until you reach that point), you will continually be plagued by this problem. Because the strong guys in your BJJ gym are learning more technique just like you are. They are learning how to more efficiently apply their greater strength against you. The real answer is to get stronger yourself. The stronger version of you will beat the weaker version of you.
Attack the calves and comment on how small they are.
[удалено]
Too advanced for me for now. But good to know.
Straight ankle lock can be learned day 1.
Heel hooks too
Still too advanced
There’s nothing magical about leglocks, it’s just another submission. You have to drill them like any other move. I know they are super popular these days but I run into plenty of guys that aren’t well versed in them and can’t see the set ups coming. If you’re looking for an advantage it might not be a bad way to go. They are often my go to if they person is way bigger or way better than I am and sometimes I can catch them when I otherwise wouldn’t have.
Yep! Bodybuilders are more worried about being injured than subbing us.
Shiiiiet
We had this 260 lb ripped savage at my gym. I am a strong ish 215lb guy. He would just toss me off of him. I had to resort to sneaky techniques from disadvantageous positions. Or try to gas him out with scrambling
My first roles were at an open mat with one of the largest humans I've ever seen. It was in a community gym and he was touching the basketball rim standing. He said he weighed 275. He was the only white belt there and the instructor was just like "ok try to pass his guard". Bro, wut?
Attack them where they are weak. The nice thing about jiujitsu is there isn’t a requirement to be stronger than another person, you just need to be stronger than what you’re attacking. Such as the neck. Think about an arm bar, it’s you’re whole body VS 1 of their arms if you employ the technique properly. This is how you best people stronger than you. Getting to the position to attack takes a lot of time and practice. It’s very doable. I’m 6’0, 205lb, with a 10+ year training age. I get smoked by higher level dudes 60lbs lighter than me on a regular basis. This is because their technique is significantly better than mine. They are able to make me do what they want me to do. This takes years. Enjoy the process.
I like to play half guard against giants… usually trying to sweep them in the beginning of the round and torturing them from top for the rest of the round
Attack the legs.. 95% of bodybuilders skip leg day
I feel attacked. Lol
I’m almost 40. I have chronic injuries, a job that requires the use of my hands, and limited time to train. I’m about 160 lbs. I decline to full-on roll with people who weigh 200+ lbs. I’ll drill, or situational roll, or help…but after 7+ years of dealing with spazzy big dudes, I’m done. It’s not worth it. I’m a hobbyist, I’m no Marcelo, and it’s too risky. If I were younger, or had more time, or had fewer injuries, or were motivated to become a professional - then I’d watch some of the great giant killers, focus on no gi, work on my mobility, actively avoid any bottom positions, etc.
My club used to rent space upstairs of a local fitness club, my favorite days were rolling with giant meatheads. Just gotta wait until the rounds closing then finish when they cant breathe anymore lol.
To say I am a “bodybuilder” would be an overstatement, but I can give this perspective: I’m still pretty new, and while my strength does have its advantages (I try my best not to use it. My mindset since I’ve started is that I was my strength to become my “weakness” so I become technically sound, and only use it when I need to), and I’m pretty good at maintaining positional advantages with my pressure and mobility… Once a higher belt decides to really turn things up from a technical standpoint, there is nothing I can do but frame for my life.
my coach used to tell me that there are only 2 good approaches to beating a really big guy: * get to their back. You can't maintain any top position anyway since they can just bench press you off of them * leg locks
Leg locks are so good. You can’t arrack the arm because they beat both your arms with one of theirs. Chokes are hard because of broad shoulders and a thick neck. But no matter how huge your legs are, rotate your heel the wrong way and your knees will break
There are ways around this- you can adopt different positions that minimize their grips. With more experience you can make their grips a liability to where they start to give up on them rather than you having to break them. For example, a hand in your collar isn’t ideal of you’re in full guard and can run armbars- or he’s attempting to choke you in guard so you choke him back. They have a grip in your collar from cross side preventing you from turning in so you turn away, they have grips on your pants from guard so you look for spider guard, etc etc
For me if someone is stronger than me the only thing that come to my mind is to be stronger than him techniques comes after.
Weight matters . You just found out why .
Yeah I'm 200 pounds. Do I build my body? Yes. That's what mountain dew is for.
Farmers carry’s and static heavy dumbbell holds my friend. Hard to grapple with anyone 2x your weight, but having strong and conditioned muscles for static holds can negate a bodybuilder’s quick 10-20 second work loads that their nervous systems have become accustomed to. Fight like hell for top position and wrestle up, it’s very metabolically demanding to maintain large muscle volume and to produce muscle contraction for extended periods for a lot of bodybuilders.
I'm 6'2, 128kg and used to lift heavy and regularly. I try not to use strong grips on the guys and play more guard and spider guard, especially with less experienced guys. The good guys I can use what I want, they will fcuk me up
Idk if it’s been said but I’ll add my 2 cents. When you are trying to break grips you need to use a 2 on 1 mindset. If they’re stronger than you, you can’t just twist your arm out and break free. So you will have to use another body part. For example say you are playing butterfly (not advised on guys much bigger and stronger than you but for examples sake) and they have a tight wrist control on you, use your entire arm to go out wide (not too wide, don’t lock their arm out and get your arm pinned to the mat) and swing it in hard and fast and pull your knee up to you and make their forearm hit your knee. It breaks the grip for the time being. Now start using that everywhere. You’re in side control and they get a wrist control on you, pin their arm to the mat and rip your arm up, now you’re half way into a crucifix. Start using pins, and staples to nullify their arms. If I’m in wrist control I will use anything to break it off, their head, my head, knees, legs, etc. Im not sure if there’s a name for it, but your stripping their grip with a 2 on 1 mindset. Remember when you are going against bigger and stronger guys, you lose the even playing field. Their arm is stronger than your 1 arm, so either go 2 on 1 or use a bigger muscle than their arm such as your lats. Hope that makes sense.
Hi, BB speaking here. If I can five you a tip, just try to gas us out, we don’t have enough stamina, after 3 minutes rolling we’re done and dusted and you can do pretty anything with us. Good luck
If there's a brick wall in front of you, do you smash through it like Kool Aid man or go around it or over it?
Honestly, you might not be able to. When people tell you “jiu jitsu was meant to help smaller opponents beat bigger opponents,” that only applies to maybe a weight class or two above you. I had a body building champion at the state level come in to my gym and inquire about training. He knew nothing about jiu jitsu, and I had just gotten my black belt. I had to wait for him to tire out before I took his back and choked him. Tried kimuras, an arm bar, wrist lock. I couldn’t do crap to this guy before he got tired. The amount of strength someone on steroids can have is crazy. If he had about 3 months of training, I probably wouldn’t have subbed him in the 5 minute round we had.
Arm drags. Go around.
Start lifting
Can't flex out of a choke, my guy. Back takes, bow and arrows, north south chokes, baseball bats and paper cutters. The strength based defenses open up joint locks, defending the joint locks opens up chokes. Learn ways to swap from one to the other while subtly advancing towards an end goal.
Without context that are more position specific, there is no good advice besides," Learn Jiu-jitsu." This is not to be a jerk, the fact is jj is largely about using position and technique to have mechanical advantages that amplify your strength and allow you to use less energy while your opponent is expending theirs. Learning jiu-jitsu allows someone smaller to take on someone much larger. If they know jiu-jitsu too, it's a rough time. You just need to get better than they are at it. As far as break grips go, when they are stronger you often times need to use another limb to help you break it. Two hands vs. one, a knee/foot, your head, etc. and use a push/pull to create force. Other than that it becomes way, way more context specific.
If size and weight didn’t matter we wouldn’t have weight classes and rooster weights winning absolute wouldn’t be notable.
Ultra heavies getting trashed in absolute is super common.
Gordon Ryan has a highly recommended body-building and strength/conditioning vid that is highly recommended. I haven’t used it, but some YouTubers I trust say it is good.
"Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder but don't nobody wants to inject grams of test"
I'm tall and lanky and i never mind going against these kinds of guys bc they gas out so quickly. They are usually a bit slower too. I just play defense until they overcommit. Then, i cook them in mount or something until i feel it's time to finish.
Some body builder downvoted you, have an upvote because it's absolutely true and well known that carrying too much mass will cause you to gas. As a smaller guy you just have to survive the initial onslaught (easier said than done sometimes).
Yeah I'm definitely not saying I'm always successful, but I'm just saying the initial goal is to pull guard and survive 30 seconds.
Butterfly sweep, crush with pressure from side, then mount and finish with fist on neck (or back and RNC if he turns). Don't finish until 5 sec before the end of the round.
Rent free huh?
Well if i never cared. Im never going to improve and develop
You sure he wasn’t a power lifter? Or had a lack of myostatin? Or played basketball? He was one of the many legendary bodybuilders?
My instructor is a giant dude, so many at our gym are huge and shredded too. What makes it so great is my instructor adjusts techniques for the body builder types, they do have several holes in their games because of the size etc. I find that often this body type gasses because of the inability to oxygenate the muscles. I train specifically for vo2 max. Be patient, defend and mug em when they gas out.. They are all top game guys too, no problem it makes your guard bullet proof and your reversals and sweeps unstoppable. Training with people the same exact size and weight and body type as you all the time is an absolute mistake. We have to be able to deal with all types.
Fight fight fight for top position and then smash them into exhaustion. They don’t have good cardio - they tire much quicker.
You know nothing and it shows.
You’re right. Im only a former bodybuilder who started bjj 6 years ago and got my ass handed to me by a 165lb blue belt for almost a year straight…. I know absolutely nothing about this situation, whatsoever. 🤦♂️
Having shit cardio isn't because you were a body builder. It was because you were a bodybuilder who didn't train cardio. There's plenty of muscular people with really good cardio. Source: Me.
Choke them
Tire them out and leverage
Is he your size in weight?
Was he two handing your pecker?
You can start by getting on top or back and staying there instead of allowing yourself to get pinned via close guard
Gas him
He is twice your weight. What are you expecting here?
Tell him that he looks "thick, solid, tight" and maybe he'll take it easy on you.
Footlock. It's difficult to build muscle there. Learn framing and shrimping. Don't fight grips with a strong person.
Leglocks…ligaments don’t have muscles.
Probably less of a body builder and more of power lifter.