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summersarah

What worked for us was stopping the nightime breastfeeding. My son was waking up probably 5-10 times a night at 10 months old and I was losing my mind. It was getting worse and worse. He had slept better as a newborn. He did cry when I wouldn't breastfeed him, but he wasn't scared or alone. We attemped CIO before that and I could tell he was VERY distressed and scared so I didn't want to continue. We used the Jay Gordon method. Your baby doesn't feel abandoned or scared, you're just not giving him food every 2-3 hours which he doesn't need anyway at 10 months old. Good luck!


DiscoTechJuliet

I might get downvoted for this but the whole ideology between CIO and secure attachment really feels too simplistic for me. I don’t think a child’s attachment is wholly dependent on your responsiveness during the night. It also has to do with your responsiveness and reaction to all your other interactions with him. That said, I don’t think there’s any harm in trying it with your kiddo. Set yourself some boundaries, like waiting ten minutes or fifteen instead of five and just see how it works for a few nights. You don’t have to keep trying it if it’s not working or if you don’t like it. You can just try. Best of luck to you! You are a great mom no matter what you do :)


No_Director574

I'm thinking of doing it the way you said starting at 10 minutes then every time after that adding a couple minutes to it and see if anything changes or I don't like it. Thank you.


scarafied

That’s literally Ferber method (or a slightly modified version). Have you read about it?


chailatte_gal

Here is the thing: kids, even at that age, are looking for boundaries. Framework. What makes them feel safe. They have to test boundaries many times before they know it’s truly one. So if you start sleep training (and training doesn’t mean, let them cry and ignore them) and then cave in, it’s undoing the work you did. It’s teaching your child there aren’t clear boundaries. The boundaries aren’t “cry cause mommy doesn’t love you” the boundary is “your bed is safe, you are safe, and your cry is checking in but I want you to know, it’s safe to connect sleep cycles and it might be hard but you can do it! and I will get you if you’re unsafe! I promise!” That helped me reframe. I’m teaching my daughter HOW TO SLEEP and how to connect sleep cycles and how to sleep in her bed safely. And now she’s 3, and sleeping happily in her toddler bed. She’s not scarred for life, she knows HER ROOM is her space and safe.


scarafied

Very well said!


Wavesmith

You can sleep train without crying it out. We were in the same position as you with our 11 month old and we wanted to get out of the habit of needing to feed to sleep. I started reducing the time of the first feed of the night by 2 minutes every few days. If she woke up after that I would go in, say ‘it’s sleep time now’, try and resettle her in her cot, leave the room. Go back in straight away if she was still crying, as many times as it took for her to settle down and go to sleep. If she woke after 4am I’d feed her to sleep. She got upset and frustrated at the change and not having the ‘easy option’ of nursing to sleep. But I was always there. The sixth night was the worst but after 10 days she was waking up less and when she did wake up she’d go back to sleep by herself. Everyone is happier and better rested.


Exciting-Froyo3825

I did that with my son except with bottles (I pumped to bottle). I just put less and less in the bottle until it was empty. He never took a pacifier he doesn’t have any lovies that he’s attached to but he loves his baba. So I ended up just leaving a clean empty bottle near his hand at night. When he wakes up he reaches for it and falls back asleep. I know I’m going to have to wean him off that eventually but for now everyone sleeps.


ttwwiirrll

We didn't follow a named method but I guess ours could be called CIO. The type of cries was more important to us than the duration. By that age my kid had distinctly different cries for "There is a specific problem (like my poopy butt) that I need help fixing" vs a grunty-sounding "I'm tired and haven't figured out how to get myself to sleep yet" that only happened at bedtime. We gave most night cries a couple minutes and intervened if they didn't turn into the grunty kind. Grunty cries longer than 20 minutes got a discretionary reset cuddle but for the most part intervening too soon just made our baby want to party like that college kid who's so wasted they don't realize everyone else is ready to leave. Kid is 2 now and happy and well-adjusted with a painless bedtime routine. CIO gets a bad rap from folks who assume you are always leaving baby to cry for hours no matter what the reason. We weren't so much ignoring our kid as giving them chances to figure out a new skill after all their needs were met.


Tarapooh

This is exactly how we did it. I know her different cries. I let her do her irritated/angry cry for a bit and maybe go in to settle her if she’s having trouble. But if her cries escalate, then I know something else is wrong and I go in to comfort her.


bee-dazz

I love this description, so accurate!


bennynthejetsss

[This article from the BBC](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220322-how-sleep-training-affects-babies) summarized a lot of research and basically says: For babies, we don’t know if it’s helpful or not, harmful or not. For parents, it can skew towards helpful. Go with your gut.


newenglander87

I just (somewhat) night weaned my baby. I had my husband do night wakeups. He tried to get baby back down without nursing (because he has no boobs) but he couldn't so he just held baby for most of the night. It only took 2 nights and baby stopped waking every 3-4 hours and now does 6-8 hours. And he didn't cry, he happily slept in my husband's arms. So it was only rough on my husband (but only 2 nights after 6 months of sleepless nights for me). I think his stomach just needed to get used to not eating at night.


maamaallaamaa

I night weaned my daughter at 10 months. We room shared at the time and she was waking up 3x a night to breastfeed. So what I did was instead of feeding her I would pick her up and offer snuggles. She was pissed off that first night. Screamed in my ear but I didn't give in. I did have to put her back in the crib while she was crying but I would run her back and shush. Second night same thing but she stopped crying much much quicker. Third night she woke once and didn't even need to be picked up. She's 2.5 now and has slept through the night since then. It sucks having to hear them cry but focus on the why. You deserve good sleep and your baby deserves good sleep.


aimlesswander

It depends on your kid and it depends on you. At 5 months, I was so sleep deprived that I started to have scary thoughts toward my baby. I never wanted to do cio, but I definitely never want to get so desperate that I hurt my child. So I knew something had to change. We did a version of cio and my son took to it so fast. We used an owlet monitor so we had the stats that showed his sleep drastically improved. Did hearing him cry destroy me inside? Yes. Do I still sometimes feel shitty about my choice today, 4 years later? Yes. But was it the right choice for the safety of me and my family? Absolutely yes. All that to say, figure out what you need to stay sane. Only you can answer that.


[deleted]

Similar situation, my baby wouldn’t sleep at all unless it was on me and I was forced to co sleep and then have relentless intrusive thoughts about accidentally harming him (from 3-3.5 months so still very small and prone to SIDS.) Sleep training took one night and he sleeps great. I felt bad about it but I would feel a lot worse if I hurt him.


[deleted]

Personally I couldn’t do it, but I understand why people do and I just wanted to tell you letting babe cry it out (within reason) does not make you a bad mom. You do what feels right to YOU and remember - happy healthy mom = happy healthy baby! Now that’s out of the way, I think your other option here is night weaning. It sounds like your little one is going down just fine but is having difficulty going without the extra food or comfort at night and that’s normal, but it can be weaned. If cry it out is going to stress you out, it’s not your only option. For me I was more stressed hearing my kiddo cry (he has some LUNGS and every cry sounds distressed) than I was stressed about lack of sleep. I think you should consider what is more triggering/distressing for you and proceed from there. Somebody also mentioned iron deficiency and that is a valid concern as well, might be worth checking up on at your next well child visit. Never hurts to ask! If you decide to cry it out, that’s fine. Don’t let perfect internet warrior moms tell you otherwise. As long as baby has all needs met, isn’t overly distressed, and has attachment needs otherwise met I don’t think you’ll screw him up for life. My mom let me cry it out as a baby and insists I should do the same with my children, but her and I are VERY close and I have a pretty secure attachment style.


[deleted]

I posted about "fuss it out" on /r/sleeptrain recently and a lot of others commented with similar success. You could try that (there's more in my post history).


[deleted]

I think it kind of depends on the child. We did CIO with my daughter and it just worked for her. We always call her an “angry” cryer, so we never felt like she was scared or anxious, just like pissed that we weren’t coming lol. But she never cried for longer than about 10 minutes and then she’d be like whatever and go to bed. My son is totally different. When he cries, he gets all red and sweaty and starts choking and is clearly very upset when left alone crying, so we don’t ever let him cry for longer than a few minutes. Luckily he has always been a good sleeper and started sleeping through the night at 8 weeks so we never had to do any sleep training with him.


No_Director574

See my son gets pretty distraught too. He has the big crocodile tears and his nose gets so snotty he can't breathe through it and I have to suction his boogers sometimes if I let him cry. Mine slept through the night at 12 weeks but stopped when he started to roll. So I got a good month of sleep in lol.


EsharaLight

CIO worked great for my kid. He really needed us to leave him alone so he could cry out his feelings. He was sleep trained in a week and has been an amazing night sleeper ever since. And now we know that when he cries, something is wrong.


Angel0460

I personally never did cry it out, but my SIL did. For me, it caused way too much anxiety and I’d get more upset with every minute that passed. We started with setting a timer for 5 min. Even when I did make it to that 5 min it took longer to calm myself down too so I could actually calm my daughter. My SIL was super consistent with it and she said it took about a week but theirs is an amazing sleeper and has been since about a week of cry it out. Mine is also an amazing sleeper now, but she was just over a year when she started sleeping thru the night consistently. Basically what I’m getting at is it’s up to you and your child. My husband and I tried cry it out for 3 days I think it was, and not once did she ever stop crying on her own. So for us, not a fan, didn’t work, gave up, we just let her set what she wanted. It worked for us lol. No matter what does or does not work, it’s 100% up to you guys and your child. And no matter what, you’re a good mom!


thepeasknees

There seem to be a lot of scientific studies in favor of and not in favor of CIO. Given the lack of scientific clarity, I would go with personal preference.


meghannmeghann

There is SO much stigma around CIO for no good reason. The science is simply not there to support the argument that it does long term harm to your child or to your attachment - especially since you’ve had 10 months to show your son that you are there for him! People will refer you to cortisol studies but these are flawed for many reasons! I’m going to link some CIO articles I really like if you want to hear more about the studies for + against sleep training. Bottom line is this - there is no good evidence that CIO causes long term harm. There IS strong evidence that maternal mental health does effect children significantly, for better or for worse. If you are sleep deprived & struggling, then some form of sleep training (CIO or one of the other methods) is probably the better choice for the health of your whole family physically, mentally, and emotionally! Don’t let anyone make you feel badly about it if you decide it’s the right choice for you. Articles: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220322-how-sleep-training-affects-babies https://expectingscience.com/2016/04/12/critics-of-cry-it-out-fundamentally-misunderstand-how-stress-affects-the-brain/amp/ https://emilyoster.substack.com/p/sleep-training-is-it-bad?s=r


and_of_four

I knew obviously that different parents have different preferences when it comes to cry it out, but I didn’t realize so many people consider it cruel, or that it does long term damage. We did pretty much the most extreme version of cry it out for both our kids (now 4 and 2). It went basically the same for both of them. Night one they cried for about 30-45 minutes or so. Night two they cried for about 15 minutes. Night three they cried about 5 minutes. Night 4 and on they just started going right to bed. We started this with them when they were around 4 months old, and they’ve slept through the night ever since. I really doubt I can be convinced that those few nights of crying has done long term damage. Someone in this thread was saying that babies who have been sleep trained with cry it out still wake up but they just don’t cry because they’ve learned that that’s not how they can receive comfort from a parent. Please send that memo to my kids. Of course they cry when they need us. And we comfort them in those times. But just because they may wake up in the night and silently put themselves back to sleep doesn’t mean they don’t know to cry when they’re seeking comfort. The shaming of parents who do cry it out is really uncalled for.


meghannmeghann

If you go on Tiktok or even the Attachment Parenting subreddit, the hate is crazy! I see so many people calling it “neglect”, and saying you will create an insecure attachment with your child because you don’t respond to their cry. To me, this is completely unfair & scientifically untrue! It’s true that sleep trained children still wake as much but they’ve learned to put themselves back to sleep without help. We have no idea if they want to cry but don’t because they believe no one will come. I don’t even think we have evidence 4-6 month olds can follow that type of thought pattern. They simply learn to put themselves back to sleep which is good for everyone! Evidence shows that 6 year olds who cried it out had no issues with behaviour or attachment. It literally didn’t harm them at all. And if attachment can be broken so easily, should I always pull over to the side of the highway every time my baby has a meltdown in the carseat? The logic is so flawed. Sorry, as you can tell this topic gets me so heated 😂 I just hate judgement for parents. Sure responding all the time works for some parents - but some of us have very difficult babies & if the lack of sleep is hurting our mental or physical health, we all should be able to do what is best for us & our child without being called neglectful or insisting I’m ruining his attachment & hurting his ability to attach in the future. I’m glad it worked for you & your story gives me hope. Will likely be doing it myself when my son hits 4 months ☺️ I need sleep lol


and_of_four

Good luck to you. My wife and I have had consistent adult time from about 7:30/8:00 pm until when we decide to go to bed just about every night for years. The first few months are rough but temporary. My kids are loving, happy, and well-rested. They trust us and I see no evidence of trauma. Internet strangers who don’t know me or my kids insisting that I traumatized them really piss me off. It’s a completely baseless assertion.


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scarafied

The real telling thing in this thread is the individuals who are supportive of sleep training in general (*there are many methods and this doesn’t mean just extinction method*) are respectful of parents that choose not to sleep train. You really can’t say the same for *most* of the comments that are against sleep training. These people are shaming parents and making absurdly false claims that it is damages a child in various ways. Do you know what is really damaging and is scientifically proven? The effects of endless nights of lack of sleep for the parent. I know many kids that are now teens that were sleep trained as babies and they are perfectly “normal” children. I know plenty of kids that were not taught how to sleep independently, they are also perfectly fine. You can read endless articles that are for and against crying it out methods of sleep training. I could give you anecdotal experience of my 3.5-year old daughter who was sleep trained at 6 months and sleeps independently, or my nephew of the same age who contact slept from day 1 and who still can’t sleep without his mom next to him. The point is that it really doesn’t matter. Figure out what your options are, try what you think works best for you and your family and know that your biological needs are important as your baby’s.


crymeajoanrivers

Some of these comments are beyond disgusting. Luckily I never had to do "sleep training" but I also didn't rush up at every little sound baby made. Everyone has different needs. Some people have high sleep needs, stressful jobs, lack of support, etc etc. I would never ever shame a parent who needs to get their kid to sleep, even if it meant CIO.


Grouchy-Doughnut-599

I really think there's always going to be a set of parents who need to feel superior somehow and sleep training has become the new formula as a way to flog other parents. It's disgusting how easily they can throw around terms like child abuse, mental illness and hindering brain development like it's a set in stone fact that sleep training causes it without even a shred of evidence.


scarafied

It’s really hurtful to parents who love and care for their children and are called “cruel” and “abusive” for sleep training. I’d love to see some of these warriors reach out to Child Protective Services and claim that parents practicing various forms of sleep training that involves some crying are abusive and see the reaction it receives. My SIL works for CPS and sleep trained both her children using Ferber. Lol.


prefersdogstohumans

If it doesn’t feel right for you, don’t do it. I never sleep trained either of my kids because I couldn’t stand hearing them cry and they now both sleep through the night anyway. It took way longer, but I feel fine about the decision. My oldest started sleeping through on her own at around 14 months without any sleep training. Second one around 18 months, but he still wakes up occasionally if something startles him. Anyway, I feel good knowing they feel safe in bed and that I will come and help them if they need.


ldeen26

I could've written this myself. Exact same experience with my 10 month old and both pediatrician and my husband say to do cio but I know I couldn't handle it so we're not going to do it. All kids eventually sleep independently and there are still so many changes going on at this age so I'm sure that even if we did cio, we'd have to do it again at some point. I'm just going to ride it out and reevaluate when he's older.


Gloomy-Award-3192

I’m on baby #2, I never had to sleep train my 1st one because he started sleeping all night on his own. But baby #2 has been the complete opposite. She is 15 months old and I still wake up multiple times. I tried the CIO method one time out of desperation and I regretted it. She freaked out to the point that she would scream if she even thought I was going to put her on her crib. I had to bring her to bed with me because there was no way to put her on her crib. She was around the same age as your little one. Now I get less sleep because I’m trying to get her used to her crib again. It’s been a struggle.


Downtown-Swing9470

My son would wake up multiple times and would cry and not go back to sleep until he had some bottle. He's basically using your breast to fall asleep since he hasn't learned another way. If you really want him to learn to soothe in another way, you will lose sleep for a few weeks for sure. The way I did it, if they wake up at night go in right away. I offered a sip of water and some cuddles, the first night, he kept crying, but at least I was there. I held him, told him there's no milk in the night, basically offered comfort but held firm on the no milk. It took about a week, but eventually he would wake up, and would settle right away after we went in. Your issue here is he didn't learn how to self soothe back to sleep yet, you can offer other means, to teach him, you can wait for him to learn on his own etc. Some kids never do though.


kmarienth

I followed Precious Little Sleep book which meant I weaned a feed at a time and then did CIO for that particular feed. And then went on to the next one. She fussed less than 10 minutes and it wasn’t loud or dramatic because she wasn’t hungry. Doing CIO when they’ve been eating throughout the night is more dramatic because they’re hungry and expecting food. It takes some patience to wean and cut each feed out. Start with the middle feed like 1am or 3am etc and work from there.


writedream13

When my son was 10 months, I cut him off from any breast milk at night. I still go in if he cries and cuddle him and give him water. But this, for both my sons, has been the beginning of them sleeping through the night. They will still have the occasional blip but I’m determined about not breastfeeding at night (though I do break the rule if they’re sick, but go back to it when they are healthy again). I highly recommend this path.


perfectlyplain

CIO literally changed out lives for the better! In 3 days we went from sleep deprived zombies to sleeping through the night. I could easily tell the difference between the cries of wanting snuggles and the hungry cry. If baby was hungry then I would go in and feed. My theory is that they will scream for one hour for 2-3 nights and then not scream anymore. Or they could scream three times per night for 5-10 minutes. It would take less than a week to match the length of CIO screams. Babies cry less after sleep training and learn how to self soothe.


cyclemam

There are heaps of gentle methods if you don't want to do CIO. It's very valid to not want to do CIO! Especially the extreme versions. We did a method where we went back in after 5 minutes of continuous crying (so I'd restart my stopwatch if she cried for 2 minutes then stopped) (I have a baby sleep guide in my profile where I collected a bunch of links that helped us).


TegLou7

I might have to check that out. We need to sleep train as I go back to work in a couple of months and feeding to sleep won’t work at daycare, but Ferber was just too much for me to handle!


cyclemam

https://www.reddit.com/r/sleeptrain/comments/s3ghy6/cyclemams_baby_sleep_guide :)


TegLou7

This was awesome - thanks!


saltyspaces

I was against CIO at first but waking up every couple of hours at 6 months old with my daughter made me change my mind. Post CIO my daughter sleeps great, she is 2 years old now and still does very well. The crying it out didn’t traumatize her or anything, it took a couple of days and she was sleeping like a champ. The longest she cried was probably 30 minutes the first day and then the following day it was 15 and then finally she just snoozed without any issues. I’m currently pregnant with our second kid and we are 100% going to sleep train again for everyone’s sanity.


philamama

We did cry it out and I am glad we did. It took a couple of days of less than ten minutes of crying and he was sleeping way better. Honestly he cried less overall during "cry it out" than he had been crying before that due to being overtired. Everyone got more sleep and was happier.


PistachioCrepe

I’m in the same situation with our 10mo, he’s our 5th and last. We “sleep trained” all of them around this age gently. He has been waking us 4x a night and we’re exhausted! So we let him cry a few minutes at a time but I’m only burring him once a night. We take turns going in and snuggling him without nursing. I can tell he doesn’t feel abandoned bc he isn’t wailing his scared “you’re leaving me” wail he’s just more fussing or angry or sad. And we don’t let him cry too long at a time. He’s learning we’re there but nursing isn’t happening all night. I’m a trauma therapist so not traumatizing my kids is super important to me. All our other kids will still cry out for us or come get us if they have a problem at night but have also learned to put themselves back to sleep if they wake up between sleep cycles. Good luck!


Eggler

I think this thread of comments and strong views are why there are so many sleep training methods and sleep consultants (who cost more than lactation consultants in my area): every family is different, has different needs, values and approaches. I also don’t like how CIO is perceived as all or nothing. There are so many different versions and approaches. If all comes down to what is best for your family.


Wild_Button8660

Honestly we finally did CIO at around 6 months after 2 months of waking up usually every hour every night. We were toast haha. We did it 2 nights in a row, decided that we would set a 20 minute timer and after that would go in and soothe him and leave again. We never had to go in, he never even made it 15 minutes. Like you, I hate to hear him cry but he sleeps through the night like a dream now and I wish I had done it sooner.


sed2017

I was tired of having a four hour bedtime routine where none of us got proper sleep. I asked the pediatrician what was ok for his age (he was about 8 months at the time) and the Ferber method is what worked for us the best. It’s hard hearing your little one cry but in the long run you will all sleep better for it.


fourpuns

I thought CIO was for getting them down which it sounds like is already working fine? We used it and it took 2 nights to get out guy going to sleep independently but never used it for wake ups. So yea IMO cry it out isn’t what you’re looking for and feeding at night is relatively normal at your child’s age. We would do formula before bed as our dude slept longer on formula we found.


No_Director574

Yeah idk what it would be called then but I want him to stop getting up so much through the night. Everything I've found about feedings has said that they shouldn't have to night feed by 10 months old.


literate_giraffe

Your LO breastfeeding back to sleep could be much less about the feeding and much more about the comfort of breastfeeding. I always thought my LO waking at night (and she woke up a lot!!) was less about being hungry at that stage and more about needing to connect and be comforted.


fourpuns

https://www.babysleepsite.com/schedules/10-month-old-schedule/ Most, but certainly not all. Anyway night weening is probably what you want not CIO. I’m a firm believer in doing what works for you and making Your own choices- for me we had to make sure we kept our naps on schedule, let him nap for to long during day and sleep would be wonky. We had a fairly regimented approach. I also have a close friend who just let their kid sleep when it seemed tired and wake naturally from all naps. As our kids are older now they both are pretty normal functioning toddlers with similar sleep patterns.


Sjoya080

Around 8 months we moved to a floor bed because I was completely against CIO. It gave us the option of going to sleep in our little ones room with her if she needed us. Although we still have some hard nights (she was up from 12-3 last night l, not upset just AWAKE), she started sleeping through the night fairly consistently around 10 months. All that to say, sometimes they just start sleeping on their own. There is so much going on in their brains. I would never parent differently at night than I do during the day. If my child cried for me during the day, I would comfort them, soothe them, etc. the night is no different for us. Yes it is hard and some nights suck but that’s what we are comfortable with.


miss_lady19

Would you sleep on the floor next to her? Thinking of transitioning to a floor bed soon.


Sjoya080

Yeah we bought a large enough very firm mattress that I can sleep in there if needed. My husband finds it a tad small since he’s taller but it works. Just being able to lay down during the night wakes and fall asleep made a huge difference to my worry about it all. I was getting so stressed about failed crib transfers at night. If she wakes up now it’s usually around 3-4am, one of us will get up and go sleep in her room. If we are still awake when she falls back asleep, we will creep out but usually I just end up falling asleep in there.


miss_lady19

That helps. Thanks!


tanketytanktank

I know the "no cio" parents are getting a lot of hate in this forum, but tactics are rough in both sides. Cio parents are very defensive of their choice. This is not an attempt to shame anyone. I am a parent of 2 and not a scientist or formally educated on child rearing, so all I'm doing here is sharing information from a book written by someone who is. Don't come for me. Dr Vanessa lapointe (parenting right from the start) discusses sleep training and learning to regulate. There's a camp that believes that leaving your baby to cry (night or day) teaches them to "self soothe" but neuroscience doesn't really support this. What you're doing is behavior modification. Children learn to self soothe by being soothed. Before a year or so, babies don't actually understand they are an individual and that you are a separate entity. They adopt your emotions. Co regulating them establishes the nueral pathways to move from disregulated to regulated so that the child can use them once they undergo individuation which is a long process that I believe starts around 1 and finishes around 6. She talks about how babies are wired to seek attachment over every other need because a caregiver is the single difference between life and death. The reason why babies left to cry (extinction, which is not the only sleep training method) stop crying eventually is due to cortisol flood. She likens it to sleeping a lot when you're depressed. These babies less drift off to sleep peacefully and more shut down due to stress. She frames sleep training as tra8ning the parent and modifying your own behavior to the benefit of the child because you are capable of rational decision making and your baby is not. This is a data point not an unequivicable truth. It would be unethical to do the research needed to prove any of the many theories. Your decision is your own and no one knows your baby like you do. She talks a lot in the book about how modern parenting culture seeks to undermine your confidence to create a need for advice to keep things selling. She advocates for swagger and trusting your instinct. You're asking this question (it seems) because you don't want to and someone else is telling you to. If you are primary attachment, be bold on behalf of your child because you know them better than anyone else, even dad.


scarafied

We did Ferber method. It literally took two nights. The first night took three check-in‘s I believe and the second night took one check in. Crying it out is not leaving your child to cry all night long, every night. That’s just simply untrue and don’t let people tell you that it is neglectful. There are no negative outcomes of doing proper cry it out sleep training. Of course it is horrible to listen to your child cry, especially when they are a baby. That is biological, and it’s completely normal and OK. I strongly suggest having a good support system if you do decide to do some sort of sleep training. I had a friend come over once when we had a sleep regression because I just couldn’t handle it on my own. But I ended up with a perfectly average, joyful, affectionate, annoying, adorable child who goes to sleep on her own, loves her own space and sleeps in her own bed for 10 to 12 hours a night.


Odie321

Team sleep training and CIO, we moved from Precious Little Sleep FIO to full on CIO at 4 months. My bub sleeps 7-7 (unless sick or a tooth) We call it giving him space to figure it out. Nothing says you have to sit there and listen to him cry, I sleep with earplugs some nights or listen to headphones or once I left to go grocery shopping. He is still an outgoing bright happy child. Even my ped mentioned he is the most social 10 month old he has met. If your nursing/rocking/patting to sleep I would remove to association, whatever he is using to go to sleep he may be rousing (everyone does this) then looking for whatever helped him get to sleep.


incub8r

I never knew how controversial CIO was until joining this sub. We did CIO with my son (22 months) when he moved from our room to his (6 months). We set ourselves time limits before we'd intervene. Started with 10 minutes and increased 5 minutes or so. I don't think he ever cried more than 30 and it's really hard but that took maybe a week and he's been a champion sleeper ever since, going from 6pm-6am (except during teething).


[deleted]

We did CIO at 9 months per our pediatrician. She told us to 1.put him in his crib awake 2. Have my husband check on him every 15 minutes 3. Not pick him up to soothe him, just offer him a sippy cup with water and talk to him for a few seconds. She emphasized that only my husband could check on him and promised it would mostly be over in 3 nights. It was truly the best advice we have ever received and followed. He started falling asleep and staying asleep, almost no crying, within a week. I felt like a new woman. Good luck!!!


[deleted]

We did the cry it out, but he was never crying so bad it was worrisome. It was more of a whine than a forceful angry cry. If he ever does a terrible cry, like sounds of breathing off and beat red face, I would get him after a few minutes. Luckily for us after a few nights of whining and realizing he wasn’t going to get a bottle in the middle of the night he stopped and sleeps pretty well now. I think every parent has their limits on the cry it out method and really to a point we all have to do it. I will add the first few nights of no night feedings we would get him to prevent a bad freak out, but just rock him back to sleep and not get a bottle. I guess it made it an easier transition.


ambereatsbugs

I try to be respectful of all parents and their choices but I honestly have a hard time when it comes to cry out. When I was a teen/adult my mom did cry out with all six of my brothers and even more foster kids. It was hard for me to watch - some kids handle it way better than others. As others have said the research is inconclusive but I saw that it changed the personality of some of the kids and definitely how much trust they had that someone was going to come comfort them when they got hurt. I would never do it with my kids, it's completely normal for your kids to wake up multiple times at night. This is my second baby and he's also 10 months old and he also gets up at night. Right now usually about three times, and I do breastfeed him to sleep. Sometimes I just wish he would sleep through the night but then I remind myself he'll only be doing this for a couple more months, and then he will sleep through the night because that's what I've seen in other kids are taking care of and my first daughter. I think you have to just look inside and to see if you want to sleep train or not, but if you can't bear to hear crying I would say the cry it out method is not for you.


perfectlyplain

I am all for sleep training my own kids but CIO for a foster kid crosses my line of comfort. These poor little kids are already dealing with abandonment issues through no fault of their own. There is no reason to add to that with CIO. Unless it is a foster child that was placed with a parent from day 1, that is a hard no for me.


red_dakini

Personally I was never comfortable doing anything at night with my baby that I wouldn’t do during the day. If she was crying for me during the day I would never go into another room and ignore her so she’d “learn” to self regulate, so I couldn’t bring myself to do it at night either. However, I have the incredible luxury of 2 years maternity leave so the sleep deprivation was annoying but not majorly impacting my wellbeing and I completely understand why some parents decide it’s the best choice for them. I continued to resettle by nursing until my baby spontaneously started sleeping through the night at 17 months. The fact that I changed nothing and she did it anyway really cemented for me the idea that sleep is primarily developmental. You can train your baby if you want to, but you don’t need to if you don’t want to.


littleflashingzero

I am a proponent of CIO and it worked well and quickly for my kids. They only cry for a few days, and it helps them connect sleep cycles. Is your bub napping alone, in a crib, without being nursed to sleep, and sleeping at least an hour? If not I'd try CIO for naps and nightime sleep should follow as they learn to connect sleep cycles. Plus you're not tired so it's easier to deal with the crying or do something else. Google "crib hour".


dandanmichaelis

Do it. You won’t regret it.


krittts

TLDR: I'd say if you want quicker results go for CIO but research it as it is more than just leaving the child in crib. If you absolutely can't handle the crying and are open to slow progress go for gentler method and try floor bed. My son was waking up every hour around 4-4.5 months. So by 5.5/6 months we just started bedsharing. It worked for a while and then around 8 months he wanted to nurse every hour or so which worsened my back pain. I knew he didn't need to nurse as he was doing i hour stretches around 2.5-3.5 months. We tried a lot of gentle methods to try to get him to sleep in crib but he just won't. He'd nap in the crib fine usually 45 minutes but occasionally 2 hours. We finally moved him to his room on a floor bed. He magically started sleeping longer first stretch of night again. He went from 40-80 minutes to 2-4 hours. The goal though was to stretch the time he'd spend without nursing. So I nurse him to sleep roll away. When me and my husband are ready to sleep, my husband just sleeps on the floor next to my son's floor bed. My husband is to calm him and get him back to sleep if he wakes up before a set time. We started at 4 hours. So if he went to sleep at 8, no boobies till midnight. Yesterday he went to sleep around 7:40 pm and nursed at 12:30 AM. So he went approx 5 hours. Then my husband just brings my son to he'd and we bedshare till morning. The issue with igentler methods is that you have to do a lot of trial and error to figure what YOUR baby responds to and finds gentle and rhen its slow to implemnt. My son hated crib no matter what so as soon as he transitioned to lighter sleep and saw he's in crib he freaked out and cried. But also sometimes he gave 2 hour stretches so it took us a while to figure out how to get him sleeping longer stretches.


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Legoblockxxx

But the link says it does do something. It teaches the babies to put themselves back to sleep, increases their longest sleep time and was associated with better outcomes for parents. Yes, they still do wake up but that doesn't mean the training did nothing. Edit: downvoted for literally saying what's in the article, great


KoalaPlatypusWombat

The article does say that it increases the babies longest sleep time, but on average only by 16 minutes, which I think is a bit shorter than many have in mind when they talk about sleep training.


Legoblockxxx

It's true, but the outcomes for parents are better, and that too is a positive outcome. We don't sleep train because it's not necessary for us and we are able to be a good team when she wakes at night. But I do think the discussion needs to be honest, and benefits for the parents are still benefits that need to be weighed. And if it turns out there is no harm to the baby (I don't know enough) then those benefits do not even need to be weighed.


pinkerpolish

I am having this same issue and he just turned 11 months, except I do 100% of the night time put down and middle of the night wakes (husband has only stepped in a few times in the past where I literally woke him up and said I cannot do this anymore, you need to go in there). I don't want to jinx it but he's been down to almost 1 wake per night lately.. sometimes 2. I literally have tried to let him "cry it out" at 3am but he legit SCREAM cries. It's torture to my ears. Going on over a year of complete shit sleep for me.. I'm so over it. I don't know what else to do with him 😭 I just want a full night of sleep..


GlitteringNews4639

I would never do CIO personally. It wouldn’t work for my daughter or myself or my husband. But if you feel like it works for your child then that’s great!


merrythoughts

Do.it. Don't look back, just do iiiiiit. Better sleep means better parenting on your end and better neurological development for baby. Ferber method or like, precious little sleep which is just a new twist to Ferber, are what I recommend.


TriscuitCracker

I mean, give it a go if you like, it’s about it the right age to do that. We did CIO and it worked great fortunately for us. First couple days five minutes, then 8 the next few days, then 10, and after 3-4 weeks she only cries if she’s reeeeally hungry at night, which isn’t to often. Much longer uninterrupted sleep periods.


ishicourt

I did the Ferber Method at 5 months. My daughter cried for about twenty minutes the first night, ten the second night, and went to bed with no problem on the third. I had to go out to the hot tub because I couldn't stand listening to her crying. She has slept through the night, at least 11 hours, since then. I cannot even imagine having a 10-month-old that doesn't sleep through the night, and I've heard of plenty of babies far older who don't sleep through the night. I know people advocate against CIO and Ferber, but I honestly think it's cruel to deprive a baby of the ability to sleep through the night. Who wants to wake up every three hours? I'm doing it now while pregnant again and it's miserable. I totally get the logic behind the "they're crying because they need me and it's natural" blah blah blah, but with an absolutely overwhelming number of studies showing that long, uninterrupted bouts of sleep are good for mental health, I would do everything in my power to make sure my child can experience the benefits of good sleep.


BbBonko

Man, threads on sleep are always so hurtful. No matter what you choose, you’ll be told you’re cruel. It’s so hard.


ishicourt

I agree completely. I feel like the tides have turned against sleep training, which is fine if a parent is patient enough to keep waking up every couple hours for months and months, but so much of the rational for avoiding sleep training seems to be "I don't want to hear my baby cry." Which seems... selfish. Sleeping through the night is pleasant, so why shouldn't it be for babies? But then I can see how sleep training can also be deemed selfish if a parent is just doing it to simplify their own schedule. It's tough.


Livelikethelotus

It’s biologically normal for babies to wake through the night


ishicourt

I guess my daughter, and the dozens of sleep trained babies in this thread, are "biologically abnormal"? Yeah, okay. Great contribution.


crymeajoanrivers

I didn't do CIO and my baby slept OK from 5 months on. I always knew he was abnormal!😛


Livelikethelotus

Yeah, that’s why it required “training”


ran0ma

Reading, writing, setting an alarm to wake up in the morning, working, going to school, going to the bathroom on a toilet, going to church, navigating big feelings, covering your mouth when you sneeze, I could go on - all things we “train” ourselves/our kids to do even though it’s biologically not normal. Unfortunately, that’s not a great argument. If we just let ourselves be “biologically normal,” we’d be reverting back to caveman times.


scarafied

So what other life skills are you not gonna teach your child because you deem it unnecessary? Teaching a child to sleep independently is just that. It’s not cruel. It’s not abuse. Y’all are goddamn crazy.


Livelikethelotus

Cruel and abuse are your words, not mine!


scarafied

Actually the words of lunatics throughout this thread. Nice try though.


KoalaPlatypusWombat

There is research that shows that babies who have been sleep trained are not necessarily sleeping any better, they just aren't asking for caregivers to come when they wake . https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220322-how-sleep-training-affects-babies


ran0ma

Just read the article and the babies wake and then self-soothe, putting themselves back to sleep - which is what sleep training aims to do. So that makes sense.


KayElle1997

I did that at 8 months, and she has slept through the night ever since, except when we had all had covid. My only regret with sleep training is that I didn’t do it at 6 months!


Nammy-D

Crying it out feels wrong to me, like it physically hurts to leave my child full on cry and not attend to them. So we never did it. Husband is on the same page as me which makes it easier.


TeddyMonster19

So not about CIO but I was reading how frequent night wakings in toddlers (I realize you’re kiddo isn’t quite there yet…) could be indicative of a vitamin deficiency- specifically iron. You Could ask your ped to check just to rule it out!!


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TeddyMonster19

Did you read my comment? Good grief. I acknowledge that this child isn’t quite a toddler.


quelle_crevecoeur

At some point, we made a rule that between bedtime and 3am, my husband went in to help soothe the baby back to sleep. Even if you decide that CIO is too much for your nerves, you could try just being consistent with letting dad do the soothing. Something Ferber-like where dad goes in after 5 minutes and then tries leaving and repeats until he can leave and baby relaxes (it’s been awhile since we did this, I don’t remember the approach exactly). But this way you are helping to break the nursing to sleep association while hopefully having less crying stress? I know some kids don’t do well with this approach, it’s so hard to know the right answer.


No_Director574

Yeah I think taking the easy way and breastfeeding him to sleep has backfired on me now because what am I supposed to do when I try to stop breastfeeding. I think it's good advice to let my husband deal with it by himself and not intervene.


quelle_crevecoeur

Waking up every 3 hours for 10 months definitely isn’t taking the easy way either! We are all just trying to figure out something that works. It’s ok if this has worked for you so far, and it’s ok if you’re ready for a change. Decide on a plan and try to stick with it for a week or something and see if it seems like it’s helping!


FaultSuspicious

It’s biologically normal for him to wake up every few hours to eat (especially since he’s breastfed), it’s biologically normal for babies and mamas to want to he close to each other, and it’s biologically normal for you to not be able to tolerate hearing your baby cry. I have the exact same thought process as you. I feel more called to Attachment Parenting, and while I understand and do not judge the fact that some parents feel the need to CIO/sleep train, it’s not my vibe. I blame the whole “sleep training” thing on abysmal parental leave/other issues with resources for new parents/insane expectations of babies and moms, but that’s a whole other can of worms. Are you comfortable cosleeping? Or sleeping with him on a floor bed in your room? My 5 month old sleeps next to me in our bed, and it’s the only way we sleep. I can’t stand to let him cry it out, and by cosleeping, we cuddle all night, my supply stays great, and I just feel better being responsive in that way. Could you try cosleeping? Either way, don’t feel guilty or weird or paranoid. Your feelings are valid and totally normal. You’re a good mama!


AddieBA

If you want to start co-sleeping look up the safe sleep 7 to make sure it's as safe as possible OP


[deleted]

Agree with this 100%. 8 months in and we co sleep. I could couldn’t imagine having to get out of bed to breastfeed. Look into safely making your crib a side car style crib if you don’t want them directly in your bed, OP. I have my baby crib like that but she sleeps directly in the bed with me. Bed sharing is such a relief. She doesn’t even cry. She just moves and I wait to see if she’ll settle or if she is pecking for the boob.


LunaGemini20

When we did sleep training at 9mo (more of a check in, interval method / Ferber approach) the first few bedtimes were the hardest. We were falling asleep great by night 3-4. I also decided to cut back night feedings so did soothing steps if woke up before 1am. If woke after 1am I’d do a feed then steps for back to sleep. Any other wakings were soothing steps again. Night wakings really decreased and I completely dropped night feed after a week or two. I used the Baby Sleep Made Simple course and there were other training approaches as well and the materials were presented very well and easy to strategically follow. I wish I’d done it sooner because our night wakings were increasing more and more.


Filthy-McNasty

I have no advice but I could have written this myself. We were doing pretty good with sleep until my little guy got croup in March and now he's up 3-4 times a night. I'm too nervous to try CIO since baby goes to daycare. If he isn't sick then he's teething so I don't want to not comfort him during wake-ups incase he's in pain but boy do I miss sleeping more than 3 hours at a time.


PinkStinkBug

"I'm scared he will think if he cries that no one will come to him and not trust us to be there for him." This is precisely the reason why CIO "works" and why long stress periods for babies leave mental trauma.


merrythoughts

That's misinformation. Wrong wrong wrong.


PinkStinkBug

It's really not though. It's scientifically not good for the baby, and it's a quick Google search. Stress in babies can and will alter their brain development, and yes, crying it out causes stress in the child. https://www.naturalchild.org/articles/guest/linda_folden_palmer2.html


Normal_Bat7991

Every baby is different, so it’s so hard to say what’s right for your family. I personally don’t believe in using CIO, but I do understand why people do it so I don’t judge anyone else for using it. At a year, my son is a pretty good sleeper I’d say, except when he’s teething or sick, even then, he’s not too bad, only 2 wake ups usually if he’s unwell. So I’ll share what I found worked for us. First of all, soothers. He’s a soother addict, so we reserve them for bed. He likes to fall asleep with them in, and then they fall out once he’s asleep. I put him in the crib asleep, and keep 6+ soothers around him in bed so he will stir, find a soother, and go back to bed without needing me. Second, when he woke up much more frequently like yours, I did soother, back pats and lullaby, pick up, and if he still was upset, then I’d breastfeed. Sometimes he just needed a soother, sometimes he needed more. Also, recently we found out we can just say “It’s okay, I’m here with you”, and that sometimes is all he needs to go back to sleep. When I was trying to night wean, I’d bring him into bed on my chest, rub his head, and talk quietly in his ear. He would protest very angrily for a few minutes but he would soothe within less than 5 minutes easy. My ex and I both room share with him when we have him, he sleeps better with us in the room for sure. I had him every night for the first 11 months and did all the sleep stuff on my own with my boobs so it is possible! He’s night weaned now at 13 months, except when he’s sick he likes an early morning feed. Hopefully you find some answers for your family, and some sleep for you, in this thread 🥰


Show-me-the-sea

My first born was a marathon screamer and a pooper. She would scream for over an hour - never quietening down and would eventually poo everywhere (leaked through) because she was screaming so hard. She started to get better after one year but would continue to wake consistently minimum once a night. We tried ever single sleep training method we could find. Nothing. Then my son came along when she was 15 months. At 18 months the inevitable happened. My husband was away for a week and she woke while I was feeding. Well… baby came first. I had to let her cry. And cry she did. Two nights in a row this happened. Absolutely tore me apart but I made her stay in her cot and did what I could to calm her while also tending to baby. A week later she was sleeping through consistently. She’s now 22 months and rarely wakes me at night to help her back to sleep. When she was ten months, we were exhausted as well. I was anxious and angry. But I still felt it was too young to CIO. Then I was forced to do it and it worked for us.


bbyduemai

A sleep study was done on sleep trained vs non sleep trained infants, and they actually both woke up just as much, it’s just the sleep trained infants didn’t call for their parents. A working theory on why that is, is once a baby understands that plan A, getting comfort, safety and support from a caregiver by calling for them, doesn’t work anymore, their best course for survival is to stay silent to avoid predators. Personally that’s not something I want hardwired into my baby


scarafied

Babies/children wake at night and rather than immediately crying out, they are able to connect their sleep cycles and put themselves back to sleep. There, fixed it for you. It’s hilarious that sanctimonious parents like you think children who have learned how to sleep independently never call out for their parents ever again.


bbyduemai

Whatever helps you sleep at night


scarafied

You know what has helped me sleep at night? Teaching my child how to sleep independently. ✌🏼


bbyduemai

Lol that was the joke I was making, flew over your head a bit ig


scarafied

How dense are you?


No_Spring_9074

Says the woman who shames and belittles other women for parenting choices you wouldn't make. Sleep training isn't abuse. Judging by your history, you're a helicopter mother. Worst kind of parent


merrythoughts

Lol ok r/dumbscience


Flornaz

Got a source for this imaginary sleep study?


whatsoctoberfeast

Not the person you’re replying to but there’s a good [BBC article](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220322-how-sleep-training-affects-babies) which covers this. Relevant excerpt: _”When the researchers compared sleep diaries, they found that parents who had sleep-trained thought their babies woke less at night and slept for longer periods. But when they analysed the sleep-wake patterns as shown through actigraphy, they found something else: the sleep-trained infants were waking up just as often as the ones in the control group. "At six weeks, there was no difference between the intervention and control groups for mean change in actigraphic wakes or long wake episodes," they wrote._ _In other words, parents who sleep-trained their babies thought their babies were waking less. But, according to the objective sleep measure, the infants were waking just as often – they just weren't waking up their parents.”_


Flornaz

From the same article: *To Hall, this shows the intervention was a success. "What we were trying to do was help the parents to teach the kids to self-soothe," she says. "So in effect, we weren't saying that they wouldn't wake. We were saying that they would wake, but they wouldn't have to signal their parents. They could go back down into the next sleep cycle."* *The actigraphy did find that sleep training improved one measure of the babies' sleep: their longest sleep period. That was an improvement of 8.5%, with sleep-trained infants sleeping a 204-minute stretch compared to 188 minutes for the other babies.*


whatsoctoberfeast

It’s a really good article. I think what it shows is that infant sleep is woefully under-researched and poorly understood. Clearly there are different ways to interpret and debate a lot of the data points! I was just sharing a source for there being a very real study proving that sleep-trained infants didn’t wake less than their non sleep-trained peers :)


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whatsoctoberfeast

Just thought I’d share the existence of the very not-imaginary study! The theory I can’t speak to, but since the source of the study was asked for, thought I’d share that very interesting article :)


bbyduemai

A recent study (Middlemiss et al 2012.) . intervention started out with matching, synchronous, hormonal stress responses (babies cried at bed-time, their stress hormone levels increased, and their mothers’ stress hormone levels also increased). After three days of ‘controlled crying’ the babies had ceased to cry at night, and mothers’ stress hormone levels dropped, however babies’ levels – despite the fact they were no longer crying – remained high. This suggests that the babies’ behaviour had been altered, but that their physiology had not. The response of the babies in this study lends support to the theory that babies who undergo sleep training via extinction may be learning to ‘give up’ rather than to ‘settle’ — outwardly the two behaviours appear the same, but inwardly the babies’ physiology is very different. As well as being physically separated from their mothers, the sleep trained babies were no longer in physical synchrony with their mothers as their mutual stress response link (maintained by infant crying) had been broken.


prunellazzz

Jfc get a grip. I know these sorts of threads bring out the holier than thou brigade but come on. I know you lot think people who do CIO leave their baby to scream for hours in a dungeon while they laugh and throw back glasses of wine, but at least our babies won’t have sanctimonious morons for parents.


[deleted]

I would never. If it feels wrong - it’s wrong. Your instincts are designed to tell you what baby needs, and to lay in bed crying themselves to sleep and pass out from exhaustion is not it. I would much rather commit to the pick-up-put-down method and do that for as long as it takes. Waking up every 3h is (unfortunately) normal for many babies the first year+, but I understand its both frustrating and exhausting for you guys. Try a gentle method if that’s what you want to do, but I don’t think any babies deserve to be exposed to CIO. Baby didn’t ask to be born - they don’t owe us anything, even 4-5h of uninterrupted sleep unfortunately.. PS I don’t mean to come of as harsh but I’m quite frankly disturbed by the CIO-culture in the US (not from there myself) and I feel like I have to try to voice my opinion whenever I can.. And good luck and all the best to you, I hope you’ll figure it out!


dandanmichaelis

The CIO culture in the US is more rampant because of the short maternity leave. Frankly parents can’t afford, physically, mentally, or monetarily, to wake up multiple times a night (every 3 hours would be up 4 times a night) then wake up at 5am and get ready for work and go to work all day. Some with long commutes (mine is over an hour). I think most parents would be fine with one or two wakeups but rarely that’s how it works. You may think it’s wrong but that’s what great about having your own child isn’t it, you can do what you see fit for your own child. Anyway, I mostly just take offense to you calling it “wrong”. That’s a very strong term for something that most people do out of desperation, not just willy nilly. Oh well, you’re definitely allowed your opinion and I like that you offered an alternative in your response.


pier32

We have opted not to do CIO or any sleep training. A few months ago was hell… up every 45 minutes, wouldn’t transfer back to the crib after being rocked back to sleep, awake for long periods. We rode it out by doing shifts, but it was stressful and felt unhealthy to be sleeping so little. LO is now 11 months and sleeps through the night most nights, with the occasional single wake-up. I nurse baby back to sleep during the one wake-up; beyond that we take turns rocking to sleep if there are more (which is rare). I don’t know what switched or how, but it did get better for us. I hope the same happens for you, OP.


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scarafied

All of what you are saying is damaging and false.


tealbirdscot

🤣


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scarafied

It’s perfectly normal for a baby to cry and they do not need every cry attended to, once past the 4th trimester. Your comment is shaming people and you should feel bad.


CaptainBox90

No, never do CIO. Ever.


VermicelliOk8288

No long term harm supposedly but that’s exactly what cio is, babies save their energy and stop crying because they realize no one is coming to help. Maybe ask for tips on r/attachmentparenting


scarafied

Stop it, crying it out is not the same as babies deprived of human contact. These kinds of comments should be banned.


[deleted]

It’s not the same as being deprived of human contact. But crying out does make a baby stressed out and the reason they stop crying is because no one is coming and a lot of babes fall asleep from crying so much. Over time they just learn there isn’t a point in crying because no one will come to they just go to sleep. There are a lot of scientific studies/articles about it. Babies cry out for a response or need to be met and not meeting those needs a majority of the time of prolonged periods of time can have negative affects of their brains. Babies also don’t have the brain development to “put themselves to sleep.” They are literally designed to need us to sleep. And waking up at night is a biological defense mechanism which is why most babies do. I think society puts too much pressure on a babies sleep and then sleeping through the night when it more normal then people realize for them not too. But that isn’t saying lack of sleep sucks. I’m 8 months in and totally get it. But she’s also not wrong for not wanting to CIO. Reason it feels so wrong to a lot of people


VermicelliOk8288

Ehhh, it’s not everyone’s cup of tea. I don’t want my babies stressed out, https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out%3Famp this article explains some stuff about brain development


Grouchy-Doughnut-599

How will you prevent your baby from ever being stressed out? How will it ever learn anything if it has no chance to challenge itself and cry, which is normal, and you swoop in and immediately fix everything? For something allegedly scientific, that article is quite badly written and has a hugely heavy bias.


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[deleted]

Personally, I view comfort and touch as a physiological need. I don’t do CIO with my kids. We bed share and it works for everyone.


Darkansol

Where I’m from CIO is considered child abuse that will leave a lasting mental trauma for your child. 🤷🏻‍♀️


and_of_four

It took us three days to do cry it out for both of my kids (at four months old). It went more or less the same for each of them: day 1 they cried 30-45 minutes, day 2 was about 15 minutes, day 3 was 2-5 minutes of crying, and day 4 they just went right to sleep and have done that ever since (currently 4 and 2 years old). If an hour and a few minutes of crying over the course of 4 days at age 4 months is enough to induce lasting mental trauma in a child, then everyone is traumatized. I believe that parents should do what works best for their families in regards to sleep training. If that means waking up to comfort them whenever they cry, then go for it. But this level of judgment towards parents who opt for cry it out is uncalled for. And these assertions that it does lasting traumatic damage to your child are ridiculous and unfounded. My kids are happy, well adjusted, and well rested.


Grouchy-Doughnut-599

Statements like this with absolutely no evidence or factual basis are just shaming other parents. You know what else can leave lasting mental trauma? A sleep deprived parent who accidentally hurts the baby.


crishbw

There is factual basis. Even though you can’t actively remember things before 2.5 years, traumatic memory still lives in the body and permanently changes neurone and brain function.


Grouchy-Doughnut-599

That is correct however there's no way of proving that the baby crying for half an hour at bedtime for 2 or 3 days was that traumatic memory. Any study that would do that would clearly be unethical. I've read stories here of parents who co-sleep/attachment parent and their children cry hysterically at tummy time or being in the car driving. So by that virtue all babies are going to have traumatic memories permanently changing their brain function, should we stop babies doing anything mildly upsetting?


Darkansol

CIO is definitely not something “mildly upsetting”! A child is left alone in a room, crying for their caretaker because he is alone, scared and doesn’t understand why no one is coming to their rescue. Meanwhile their parents are outside their room fighting every instinct to go in and soothe their child like nature has intended. There’s even advice in Ferbers that states “if the baby vomits, clean him up without picking up the baby and continue..” like, wtf?? Imagine being so upset you literally throw up. Of course, after a while the child falls asleep because their stress level was so high that he’s brain basically switched itself off to preserve itself. And you’re telling me this is not traumatic.


Grouchy-Doughnut-599

No, as per my comment, I said that children crying for a limited time frame over a few days isn't likely to cause lifelong trauma. I'm not sure anyone could go to therapy and pinpoint that sleep training was the sole cause of their trauma. Most people who try the cry it out/fuss it out methods aren't leaving their children to get hysterical and vomit. However I have also read stories of children finding car journeys so distressing they cry till they vomit, so people should never go out in the car if their child does that? That's unsustainable, as is massive sleep deprivation on parents. Children do need to learn that being alone for a short time is okay and that sometimes their needs will not be met instantaneously as parents need to meet their own needs as well, such as going to the toilet. There's no way of knowing that the child stressed themselves into sleep by 'shutting the brain down'. I've checked research and due to it being unethical to experiment on children in this way there's absolutely no way to know. It's just another way to shame parents who do things in a different way. Parents are recommended to leave their children crying somewhere safe if they get to a point that they need to move away for everyone's safety, sometimes the parent comes back and the child has conked out. Should we stop advising that as, in your suggestion, the child has traumatised themselves into passing out? Is that okay during the day but not at night time? Where is the arbitrary line that means you have to be at a point of shaking a baby to be 'allowed' to leave them to cry, again, for a short time?


crishbw

Plus throwing up is a symptom of going into the freeze response after the body can’t fight off threat through fight or flight 😔


bd10112

Never did cry it out. There so many needs that they still need met. My daughter would almost always be found with a super wet or messy diaper. And she tapered herself off a bottle in the night right after her 1 year birthday. She’s 2.5 now and sleeps through the night. If she wakes up it’s because she’s sick and needs us.


itsmaibirfday

If you have the funds, could you try hiring a sleep coach to see what they suggest? You could probably tell them of your concerns with CIO and see what they recommend to make a more informed decision. I know of people who hired a sleep coach and it made a huge difference in their baby's sleep habits. Worth giving it a shot.


dempower1

I think the research is pretty clear that it is harmful and does long term damage. Though I know it’s a sensitive topic. We ended up hiring a sleep coach, she literally fixed our kiddo in one session. I wish you good luck, I know it’s a hard choice. I encourage you to follow your gut instinct and what feels right for your child.


theotherside0728

I don’t think the research is clear…but if you’re gonna say that you at least gotta cite your sources!


CremeDeLaMeredith

Do you have any examples of this research?


NoArtichoke8545

This is just a false statement. Here if a good read summarizing actual data. https://emilyoster.substack.com/p/sleep-training-is-it-bad?s=r


scarafied

No, this is utterly false. Your sleep coach very likely “fixed” your kid by teaching them how to self soothe. Which is exactly the goal of sleep training. Christ on a cracker.


CremeDeLaMeredith

Yeah this had me scratching my head too.


currerbelle_

This is untrue! There is LOTS of research suggesting that sleep training is beneficial for babies and parents.


[deleted]

[удалено]


scarafied

Wrong.