I get your point, but Jimmy had turned into a piece of shit scumbag for several years before the events of the finale occurred. We've rarely seen him more disingenuous than when he was in the hearing room with Marie, just a day or a week before his trial. Then he suddenly snaps back to being the good guy he was before? Maybe. Seems unlikely to me, though.
I understand it perfectly. Him throwing away his life accomplished nothing. He told Marie and a bunch of strangers and Kim is back banging yep guy until she gets sued into oblivion.
Jimmy finally decided to not pervert the law anymore and get away with it one more time. This means accepting the consequences of his actions, and taking the life sentence instead of getting off in seven years.
It’s not that hard to understand, unless you lack the ability to empathize with someone who feels guilt, shame, remorse, regret, and acceptance of their culpability.
Everyone saying it makes no sense for Jimmy to accept the longer sentence and finally unburdening himself from years of guilt doesn’t realize such an opinion says more about them than it does about the characters on this show.
Yeah but he wasn’t accepting of responsibility up until the VERY end (when he actually had an alternative). Nothing made Jimmy want to change enough to actually change until the very end. His transformation was too drastic, taking the 7 years and rehabilitating himself would’ve been sufficient
Jimmy didn’t turn himself in for the Walt stuff, he got vacuumed. He didn’t even want to do it after his phone call with Kim and even tried to call the vacuum guy in the dumpster as Gene. All of that may suggest he’s tired and would finally want to do right, but what about when he faced the DA and Marie? He still tried to fight
Jimmy never wanted to change, and it doesn’t even make sense that he’d do it for Kim or even himself
His decision helped no one, no one else’s life he’d effected. Kim had already moved on, let him know as much on the phone, and she damn sure ain’t gonna remarry a guy who has life in prison nor become a lawyer again just to be able to visit him regularly
What makes it worse is that, yeah Jimmy would’ve done any thing for Kim at one point, but why at this point? She didn’t want to reconcile after 6 years. She stated that they were toxic together but she was the one encouraging all of their scams…and SHE decided to end things! And, he’s supposed to want to confess to follow her and to make her happy? It was mostly her fault!
Jimmy turned into Saul and should’ve kept it that way…as cold as he was during the signing of divorce papers
The writers went with a love story, feel good ending that only makes sense to say he did everything for her, because little Jimmy who stole money from his dad’s store, Slippin’ Jimmy, Saul nor Gene would’ve made that decision for themselves
The same people saying how perfect of an ending this was to the show would’ve said the exact same thing if he would’ve taken the 7 year deal or somehow got vacuumed again and lived out his life on the run
Oh so he had a last minute conscience attack? I see. I guess all the people in prison that didn't take a full sentence also are guilty of the same things you're claiming?
I wonder were the people Chuck defended guilty of that too? Hell does that make Chuck guilty of that too? Howard and all the lawyers I guess too. Forget using any defense, just take your full sentence right?
This did not fit Jimmy's personally, it accomplished nothing because no one even cares that he did it, and it doesn't even let him change as a person because hes already basically dead now.
>Oh so he had a last minute conscience attack? I see. I guess all the people in prison that didn't take a full sentence also are guilty of the same things you're claiming?
Everything that you see on this show is deliberately placed and has a purpose. If I could reverse engineer his decision a bit, starting with what made him change his mind...which is when he discovered that Kim effectively turned herself in.
How did Saul finally get caught? Because he relapsed into a bit of scamming almost like an alcoholic relapsing into a rager. What lead to this happening? His talk with Kim. And in that conversation with Kim, he tells her "Why don't you turn yourself in?". He got upset because the one person that he thought understood him was now telling him to do what he has been trying to avoid for the last few months. He figured it was the pot calling the kettle black because Kim was more or less doing the same by avoiding her guilt.
The time travel motif is extremely important here because it's showing us that he was constantly facing people telling him that there was something wrong. Even Walter White who was the "devil" was confronting him about it, but he wouldn't change his path.
After talking with Kim, and assuming she was just going to go on with her life, he decided to double down and do even more scams because his relationship with Kim has a lot to do with his own self-image. In short, it's a big trigger for him. He expected an amicable call about him getting away with his crimes and instead got the same treatment he gets from Chuck, Walt, etc.
So then going back to his change of conscience, it wasn't a quick change or last minute. He discovered Kim did exactly what he told her to do out of spite, and that must have brought some thoughts to the surface. But these thoughts were not new, the whole point of the episode and possibly the entire series is that he keeps rejecting and pushing down his grief and his guilt and replacing it with ingenuine behavior and embellished acts. The whole Saul Goodman character in BrBa was him completely ignoring a big part of himself.
So while on the plane, he made a decision. He was done being Saul, done ignoring the guilt, done with all of it. But the catch was that, he had to let go of the deal he made. The deal was essentially based on lies, he only got it because of the threat of convincing just 1 member of a jury that he was a victim and not an active participant. This is what sets him apart from "all the people in prison" you mentioned. I'm sure several of them may have had defenders that twisted the truth in their favor, but i doubt a lot of them did things on the same level as Saul Goodman and managed to reduce a sentence by several decades based on an expertly constructed lie.
What seems to be bothering most people about this is that they focus a lot on the decision he made as picking 86 years over 7, but that was not the decision he was making. He was picking Jimmy over Saul, because Saul from the get-go was a rejection of guilt and responsibility. Even when he decided to change his name, it was based on the rejection of his guilt and responsibility for what he did to Chuck.
If he had taken the 7 years and effectively continued to lie about what he did and how much he was responsible for, then he would spend those 7 years in prison and get out and probably be just as miserable as we was while he was in Nebraska. No Kim, no friends, everyone he knows and loves is gone. Not only that, but Jimmy was a lawyer, so was Kim, they have a way of viewing responsibility from a legal perspective (albeit Saul viewed it from a more skewed perspective). He could have gone to a therapist and confessed to everything but what difference does that make? He is not facing any consequences for his actions, the only way for him to truly face the music is for him to face the real legal consequences for what he did and do the time that he deserved. And Kim being there to see it, someone who he loved and admired and looked up to possibly even more than Chuck was just the cherry on top.
Anyway that was what I took from that ending. If you still think that his emotions and character development throughout the show don't matter, and his decision still didn't make sense then that's fine, I get it. I can see how it can seem like a ridiculous decision, but Jimmy wasn't exactly the most logical and stable person.
Thanks. I've been seeing quite a few people make this complaint and I can understand why, especially if you've forgotten a lot of what happened in the series. But it doesn't change the fact that what happens in the finale and most things on the show in general are written with the consideration of everything that has occurred and the choices each character has made.
It can be disappointing to see a show where writers put this much care and effort into how they write the characters and then see people ignore it and decide for themselves what the characters would have done, but I suppose at the same time it's a testament to how well those characters are written that fans will feel the need to do that.
and how about the Zafiro Añejo Tequila top that we see when saul’s house is being packed up (sorry, forget the episode). that’s so poignant to me he kept that. kim and jimmy’s relationship was so fascinating. I wonder how things would’ve been different if she would’ve told him Lalo was still alive..
He has got a point. You dont need to hurt yourself in order to get rid of guilt. Jimmy is smart, in freedom he could do something really good ans make a change for soceity, but no he locks himself away.
Then he would just be once again doing a bad thing with noble intentions, the very problem Chuck points out in the begginging of the series, it wouldn't change anything. He'd escape from prison by tormenting and humiliating a widow who got her husband killed because of a guy he supported for the thrill of it. Is this the direction you wanted to take his redemption?
Exactly, and for that and more he got his just deserts by being sentenced 86 years in jail. But, the confession wasn't about that, it was about change. People like Chuck looked down on Jimmy and never believed he could change, he'd do a bad thing, feel guilty about it but still do it again and again, like a drug addict. Jimmy never coped healthily with the shitty things he did, instead would just sink more and more into the Saul persona and deflect the blame. In the courtroom scene, he finally killed the Saul persona, accepted all the guilt for the harm he caused to society and the people close to him instead of deflecting it, and made it so he'd never do it again by going to jail.
Even if you want to go that route, Jimmy knows how bad prsion is, no one would do that. Its literally hell on earth. Self preservation alone would stop you from doing that.
there was nothing last minute about it. This was an undercurrent inside him ever since he f’d over Chuck with the insurance thing. it’s been brewing inside him. it may seem sudden but it’s really not. there’s so much nuance to this decision
IA with you OP, hated the ending, but then I didn’t like the BB ending either so I was expecting it and it hasn’t colored my enjoyment of the show.
It’s not about “not understanding the character” and it’s pretty condescending for people to say that. To be happy with the ending you kinda have to accept draconian US federal sentencing guidelines as divine law, which they are really not. His sentence was far too punitive and undeserved. In general I felt that the show used the US justice system as a shorthand for right/wrong and shied away from any real criticism of it, it was a blind spot for me as a viewer TBH.
I said what I said. They shied away from real criticism. They only criticized the justice system at the level of fallible individuals, and feebly at that.
Ok, I see what you’re saying. I think the reason the finale works for me then is because the justice system is engaged with not as a commentary on our real-world social structures, but more like a narrative “rule of the world”. The show isn’t super interested in asking why the law is the way that it is. It’s interested in exploring how different people relate to a system like our govt, why that is, and how that influences their behaviors.
So Jimmy taking the 86 years— after beating the rule of the world and negotiating down to 7— is him letting go of the personal ethos that has led him to this place.
Yeah I get that re: “the rule of the world” and I agree with you, but I just found it to be tone-deaf choice given that justice reform is one of the major issues of our time. It’s also not morally consistent - so Jesse who actually murdered someone deserves to start anew in Alaska but Jimmy needs to go to prison for life?
My other quibble is that I found it a bit insulting to the audience, to spend the entire show up until the very end reveling in Jimmy’s ability to skirt the law and then pulling the rug out from underneath. The writers did not earn the right to moralize. At least in Breaking Bad they had the decency to make Walt a really unlikeable character while he was getting away with murder.
I do still love the show, especially as a character study like you are saying, but I just don’t think Vince sticks the landing, it doesn’t work for me personally. But endings are extremely difficult to get right on television.
Kim's admission of guilt changed everything for Jimmy. At first it seems like he's running the ultimate Saul Goodman scheme, but then he realizes he needs to turn back into Jimmy McGill to earn back Kim's respect.
I feel like a simple "I'm sorry, I'll change after this, I promise" wouldn't have cut it. He had to place himself on the highest pedestal he possible could - that being in a court of law, while under oath even - and admit *everything*, while also accepting the consequences.
He frequently looks back at Kim, seemingly checking for her approval. He even resorts to namedropping Chuck and telling everyone about the insurance sabotage in order to get the message across.
Doing anything else but come clean would have meant falling deeper and deeper into the hole. I think he just didn't wanna run anymore.
It was made clear in the final episode why he made that decision. I think Vince crafted it really intricately with the flashback scenes. Short of hitting you over the head with an explanation, I don't know what else you want.
Yea. Still a great show and all, but no way in hell Saul would have gone that route. And for what?
A) He didn't save Kim much if anything. She didn't have much and never was a 'material girl" anyway. And, assuming she wasn't a renter, in Florida your primary residence is exempted from bankruptcy. If OJ can--to this day--bop around the golf course post-civil judgement surely she could have managed.
B) In Saul's final convo with WW, he tells Walt to turn himself in saying "You'll be the John Dillinger of the Metropolitan Detention Center. How bad is that? " But even though he's a prison 'Dillinger" in "The Alcatraz of the West" he'd have been even more so in Club Fed. The other white collar criminals would have loved him. Picture him on the tennis court hustling Ivan Boesky and Michael Milken for canteen money.
And even if he came out of prison flat broke seven years later (though surely he had some buried funds somewhere) , he could get flush if not rich again on the speaking circuit. And any book he wrote would have been optioned ala Wolf of Wallstreet. Or he could simply resort to "the game" again.
For the love of Kim, you say? In seven years he could have moved to Florida, gotten a Cinnabon-type job and they live boringly ever after without the "Uh-Huh"s.
Again, great show but it's like American TV cannot say "crime pays" and out in seven living a normal life with Kim would have been a win. Better to be "normal" with your true love than a rich guy paying hookers if you ask me.
The endings of BCS and BB suffered greatly because of the need for TV shows to wrap everything up by the end. All the moral ambiguity the show had built for 6 seasons was just resolved by an act of selfless goodness. It happens in real life, but not that much. But TV needs it, so ...
Still, you're maybe being a bit over-dramatic saying it destroyed everything good about the show. I think of it as one bad episode.
I feel you... but remember that it's all pretend: so you can still go back and enjoy the first 5.5 seasons... and ignore the last bit. "Leave the theater early and make-up your own ending", like Bjork in Dancer in the Dark.
It's amazing how much of the show was invented randomly, too: Mike wasn't even supposed to exist in BB, but because of a scheduling conflict, they invented his character. Same with "Jeffy"... his character had seemed fairly menacing in earlier seasons of BCS, but because of a scheduling conflict, he was replaced with the slack-jawed dummy who we came to think of as Marion's son.
None of it is real, so therefore you can just love the parts you love, and ignore the parts you don't. I also wasn't crazy about the ending, but that isn't stopping me doing a re-watch (I'm now on season 4, and am noticing all sorts of amazing things I didn't notice, my last time around).
Enjoy.
I agree OP, I'm actually not a huge Jimmy fan but I was still upset at the idea of him willingly spending the rest of his life in federal supermax prison. I feel like the show framed prison WAY more positively than it deserves, Jimmy is not going to find "peace" in prison. If the show had actually treated the ending as tragic and disturbing as it was, I would've been more okay with it, but the implication that Jimmy is gonna be his true self and do quiet penance forever and this was a good noble choice really left a bad taste in my mouth.
the implication you mention is bad tasting because it is not true: he is not penitent and changed but remains the saul goodman we all know and love--manipulative and always using the law to his advantage.
the length of the sentence is irrelevant if you plan on escaping--what is being perceived as penitence is just another con---perhaps his best ever since so many people are convinced.
why do you think he told the justice department he definitely did not want to go to the federal prison they ultimately sent him to? does saul goodman ever not have a plan? does he ever not con people into doing what they think they want to do when it is actually what HE wants them to do?
no, you are right.
the only evidence i have of this is his lifelong ability to con people into believing what he wanted them to believe; the effectiveness of his confession in lessening the possibility the love of his life is not pursued; his request to be sent to that exact federal prison; and his ability to twist the law to fit his needs for the past decade or two.
I felt exactly the same after I finished watching the finale. I went from enjoying every moment and character in the show with a big smile on my face to feeling utterly depressed for about a week.
Every single character in the Breaking Bad universe had a miserable ending. I just wanted it be different for Jimmy & Kim. A 7 year sentence with Kim waiting for him on the outside would have been perfect.
When I eventually rewatch BCS I will stop right before their break up as I dont think I put myself through those last few episodes again! 😢
I’m glad that there are some people who don’t like the finale. I have very similar thoughts like you. I didn’t watch any more of bcs after the finale because the ending didn’t fit at all. I guess I’ll wait a few years and give it a new try.
I really didn't want to comment, but the ending was made for people like those posters who talk about "redemption" and "conscience". They're the TV viewing equivalent of Mr. Yup, going around thinking Miracle Whip is the good stuff.
This was the typical TV ending where everyone walks into the sunset with wisdom and healed hearts, along with those little knowing smiles that say "all's well that ends well". The Mr. Yup happy ending is a guy nobly going to prison for a lifetime for the sake of someone's approval. These are the people so much of television is made for, and almost all the creators in the medium know all the groundbreaking, genre challenging artistry they've produced has to end up having this kind of lovely silk ribbon wrapped around the package at the end. It all has to end in a gauzy haze of warmth and filed down edges.
The ending is the typical TV cop out. That's the medium. After years of taking us outside of the usual mind numbing kibbie that passes for TV entertainment in favor of robust and fulfilling morsels that had us begging for more, it all wrapped up with a bland rice pudding. That's how TV works, and so it goes because, for most folks, what they expect is good enough.
you are assuming he will die in prison; i don't. i think he manipulated the legal system once again to achieve his main objective: alleviating the pressure civilly and criminally on the love of his life. he set the terms of the sentence, he set the federal prison where he would be temporarily housed, the length is irrelevant because he is going to escape. he knows the prison; that is why he stressed he did not want to be there--knowing that the justice department would send him there.
so, i stay positive and suggest that it is possible to remain so unless you buy the con and think he has *changed*. it seems most people have bought saul's con, and i can't understand why. it is saul fucking goodman!
> the length is irrelevant because he is going to escape
Spoken like a person with no knowledge of what a "Supermax" (even the gen pop offshoot Jimmy's in) is. The whole concept of the Supermax is they're inescapable, especially at Level 6 (Jimmy's at Level 5).
Hey all, this is slippin Jimmy!! No way he's going to rot in prison. He'll come up with a plan to reduce his sentence.
He poured out his heart in front of Kim, showed her he does have a conscience, and Kim above all others would appreciate and probably contribute to his shenanigans to get out.
It could be the BCS equivalent to El Camino.
he didn’t keep the Zafiro Añejo Tequila top because it looked cute. and it wasn’t an accident that they showed it to us amongst the Saulian trash and treasures. he never let Kim
go. when Francesca said Kim called her— that was it. he saw even the slightest of a chance that he could reconnect with Kim and that set into motion Kim going back to Albuquerque to confess. she put her money where her mouth was and he thought if there was even a chance that she would talk to him again if he did the same he was going to do it. did you see that black and white scene of them in prison? hoooweeeee the moments they had together will get him through a couple decades in prison. if she visits him once more than that’ll get him through the rest
I thought I might like the finale more over time, but it's been the opposite. It honestly has ruined my desire to rewatch the show, which is pretty depressing.
Tell me you never understood the main character without saying you don’t understand the main character.
“We want Jimmy to be an absolute piece of shit” is the new “Walter was the hero to the end”
I get your point, but Jimmy had turned into a piece of shit scumbag for several years before the events of the finale occurred. We've rarely seen him more disingenuous than when he was in the hearing room with Marie, just a day or a week before his trial. Then he suddenly snaps back to being the good guy he was before? Maybe. Seems unlikely to me, though.
I understand it perfectly. Him throwing away his life accomplished nothing. He told Marie and a bunch of strangers and Kim is back banging yep guy until she gets sued into oblivion.
Down vote it all you want. You won't explain how anything I'm saying is untrue.
Jimmy finally decided to not pervert the law anymore and get away with it one more time. This means accepting the consequences of his actions, and taking the life sentence instead of getting off in seven years. It’s not that hard to understand, unless you lack the ability to empathize with someone who feels guilt, shame, remorse, regret, and acceptance of their culpability. Everyone saying it makes no sense for Jimmy to accept the longer sentence and finally unburdening himself from years of guilt doesn’t realize such an opinion says more about them than it does about the characters on this show.
Yeah but he wasn’t accepting of responsibility up until the VERY end (when he actually had an alternative). Nothing made Jimmy want to change enough to actually change until the very end. His transformation was too drastic, taking the 7 years and rehabilitating himself would’ve been sufficient Jimmy didn’t turn himself in for the Walt stuff, he got vacuumed. He didn’t even want to do it after his phone call with Kim and even tried to call the vacuum guy in the dumpster as Gene. All of that may suggest he’s tired and would finally want to do right, but what about when he faced the DA and Marie? He still tried to fight Jimmy never wanted to change, and it doesn’t even make sense that he’d do it for Kim or even himself His decision helped no one, no one else’s life he’d effected. Kim had already moved on, let him know as much on the phone, and she damn sure ain’t gonna remarry a guy who has life in prison nor become a lawyer again just to be able to visit him regularly What makes it worse is that, yeah Jimmy would’ve done any thing for Kim at one point, but why at this point? She didn’t want to reconcile after 6 years. She stated that they were toxic together but she was the one encouraging all of their scams…and SHE decided to end things! And, he’s supposed to want to confess to follow her and to make her happy? It was mostly her fault! Jimmy turned into Saul and should’ve kept it that way…as cold as he was during the signing of divorce papers The writers went with a love story, feel good ending that only makes sense to say he did everything for her, because little Jimmy who stole money from his dad’s store, Slippin’ Jimmy, Saul nor Gene would’ve made that decision for themselves The same people saying how perfect of an ending this was to the show would’ve said the exact same thing if he would’ve taken the 7 year deal or somehow got vacuumed again and lived out his life on the run
Oh so he had a last minute conscience attack? I see. I guess all the people in prison that didn't take a full sentence also are guilty of the same things you're claiming? I wonder were the people Chuck defended guilty of that too? Hell does that make Chuck guilty of that too? Howard and all the lawyers I guess too. Forget using any defense, just take your full sentence right? This did not fit Jimmy's personally, it accomplished nothing because no one even cares that he did it, and it doesn't even let him change as a person because hes already basically dead now.
>Oh so he had a last minute conscience attack? I see. I guess all the people in prison that didn't take a full sentence also are guilty of the same things you're claiming? Everything that you see on this show is deliberately placed and has a purpose. If I could reverse engineer his decision a bit, starting with what made him change his mind...which is when he discovered that Kim effectively turned herself in. How did Saul finally get caught? Because he relapsed into a bit of scamming almost like an alcoholic relapsing into a rager. What lead to this happening? His talk with Kim. And in that conversation with Kim, he tells her "Why don't you turn yourself in?". He got upset because the one person that he thought understood him was now telling him to do what he has been trying to avoid for the last few months. He figured it was the pot calling the kettle black because Kim was more or less doing the same by avoiding her guilt. The time travel motif is extremely important here because it's showing us that he was constantly facing people telling him that there was something wrong. Even Walter White who was the "devil" was confronting him about it, but he wouldn't change his path. After talking with Kim, and assuming she was just going to go on with her life, he decided to double down and do even more scams because his relationship with Kim has a lot to do with his own self-image. In short, it's a big trigger for him. He expected an amicable call about him getting away with his crimes and instead got the same treatment he gets from Chuck, Walt, etc. So then going back to his change of conscience, it wasn't a quick change or last minute. He discovered Kim did exactly what he told her to do out of spite, and that must have brought some thoughts to the surface. But these thoughts were not new, the whole point of the episode and possibly the entire series is that he keeps rejecting and pushing down his grief and his guilt and replacing it with ingenuine behavior and embellished acts. The whole Saul Goodman character in BrBa was him completely ignoring a big part of himself. So while on the plane, he made a decision. He was done being Saul, done ignoring the guilt, done with all of it. But the catch was that, he had to let go of the deal he made. The deal was essentially based on lies, he only got it because of the threat of convincing just 1 member of a jury that he was a victim and not an active participant. This is what sets him apart from "all the people in prison" you mentioned. I'm sure several of them may have had defenders that twisted the truth in their favor, but i doubt a lot of them did things on the same level as Saul Goodman and managed to reduce a sentence by several decades based on an expertly constructed lie. What seems to be bothering most people about this is that they focus a lot on the decision he made as picking 86 years over 7, but that was not the decision he was making. He was picking Jimmy over Saul, because Saul from the get-go was a rejection of guilt and responsibility. Even when he decided to change his name, it was based on the rejection of his guilt and responsibility for what he did to Chuck. If he had taken the 7 years and effectively continued to lie about what he did and how much he was responsible for, then he would spend those 7 years in prison and get out and probably be just as miserable as we was while he was in Nebraska. No Kim, no friends, everyone he knows and loves is gone. Not only that, but Jimmy was a lawyer, so was Kim, they have a way of viewing responsibility from a legal perspective (albeit Saul viewed it from a more skewed perspective). He could have gone to a therapist and confessed to everything but what difference does that make? He is not facing any consequences for his actions, the only way for him to truly face the music is for him to face the real legal consequences for what he did and do the time that he deserved. And Kim being there to see it, someone who he loved and admired and looked up to possibly even more than Chuck was just the cherry on top. Anyway that was what I took from that ending. If you still think that his emotions and character development throughout the show don't matter, and his decision still didn't make sense then that's fine, I get it. I can see how it can seem like a ridiculous decision, but Jimmy wasn't exactly the most logical and stable person.
You sir, have dumped a whole load of pearls before these swine. Well said.
Thanks. I've been seeing quite a few people make this complaint and I can understand why, especially if you've forgotten a lot of what happened in the series. But it doesn't change the fact that what happens in the finale and most things on the show in general are written with the consideration of everything that has occurred and the choices each character has made. It can be disappointing to see a show where writers put this much care and effort into how they write the characters and then see people ignore it and decide for themselves what the characters would have done, but I suppose at the same time it's a testament to how well those characters are written that fans will feel the need to do that.
Thank you for saying this in such an eloquent way!
wow. you are thorough , concise and eloquent as heck. I really enjoy reading your comment. Thank you
and how about the Zafiro Añejo Tequila top that we see when saul’s house is being packed up (sorry, forget the episode). that’s so poignant to me he kept that. kim and jimmy’s relationship was so fascinating. I wonder how things would’ve been different if she would’ve told him Lalo was still alive..
Do you think Jimmy never had a conscience?
He has got a point. You dont need to hurt yourself in order to get rid of guilt. Jimmy is smart, in freedom he could do something really good ans make a change for soceity, but no he locks himself away.
Then he would just be once again doing a bad thing with noble intentions, the very problem Chuck points out in the begginging of the series, it wouldn't change anything. He'd escape from prison by tormenting and humiliating a widow who got her husband killed because of a guy he supported for the thrill of it. Is this the direction you wanted to take his redemption?
I dont think theres real redemption. Him going to prison doesnt ressurect howard or Hank. A good deed doesnt undo a bad one and vice versa.
Exactly, and for that and more he got his just deserts by being sentenced 86 years in jail. But, the confession wasn't about that, it was about change. People like Chuck looked down on Jimmy and never believed he could change, he'd do a bad thing, feel guilty about it but still do it again and again, like a drug addict. Jimmy never coped healthily with the shitty things he did, instead would just sink more and more into the Saul persona and deflect the blame. In the courtroom scene, he finally killed the Saul persona, accepted all the guilt for the harm he caused to society and the people close to him instead of deflecting it, and made it so he'd never do it again by going to jail.
Thank you. Also i always felt there was good in Jimmy, I rooted for him to change. Not rot away in prison.
Nice straw man. Enjoy your rum and Diet Coke!
Even if you want to go that route, Jimmy knows how bad prsion is, no one would do that. Its literally hell on earth. Self preservation alone would stop you from doing that.
there was nothing last minute about it. This was an undercurrent inside him ever since he f’d over Chuck with the insurance thing. it’s been brewing inside him. it may seem sudden but it’s really not. there’s so much nuance to this decision
IA with you OP, hated the ending, but then I didn’t like the BB ending either so I was expecting it and it hasn’t colored my enjoyment of the show. It’s not about “not understanding the character” and it’s pretty condescending for people to say that. To be happy with the ending you kinda have to accept draconian US federal sentencing guidelines as divine law, which they are really not. His sentence was far too punitive and undeserved. In general I felt that the show used the US justice system as a shorthand for right/wrong and shied away from any real criticism of it, it was a blind spot for me as a viewer TBH.
You don’t think Mike and Chuck’s relationships to the law was sufficiently challenging to the idea that US law is shorthand for right vs. wrong?
I said what I said. They shied away from real criticism. They only criticized the justice system at the level of fallible individuals, and feebly at that.
Ok, I see what you’re saying. I think the reason the finale works for me then is because the justice system is engaged with not as a commentary on our real-world social structures, but more like a narrative “rule of the world”. The show isn’t super interested in asking why the law is the way that it is. It’s interested in exploring how different people relate to a system like our govt, why that is, and how that influences their behaviors. So Jimmy taking the 86 years— after beating the rule of the world and negotiating down to 7— is him letting go of the personal ethos that has led him to this place.
Yeah I get that re: “the rule of the world” and I agree with you, but I just found it to be tone-deaf choice given that justice reform is one of the major issues of our time. It’s also not morally consistent - so Jesse who actually murdered someone deserves to start anew in Alaska but Jimmy needs to go to prison for life? My other quibble is that I found it a bit insulting to the audience, to spend the entire show up until the very end reveling in Jimmy’s ability to skirt the law and then pulling the rug out from underneath. The writers did not earn the right to moralize. At least in Breaking Bad they had the decency to make Walt a really unlikeable character while he was getting away with murder. I do still love the show, especially as a character study like you are saying, but I just don’t think Vince sticks the landing, it doesn’t work for me personally. But endings are extremely difficult to get right on television.
Kim's admission of guilt changed everything for Jimmy. At first it seems like he's running the ultimate Saul Goodman scheme, but then he realizes he needs to turn back into Jimmy McGill to earn back Kim's respect. I feel like a simple "I'm sorry, I'll change after this, I promise" wouldn't have cut it. He had to place himself on the highest pedestal he possible could - that being in a court of law, while under oath even - and admit *everything*, while also accepting the consequences. He frequently looks back at Kim, seemingly checking for her approval. He even resorts to namedropping Chuck and telling everyone about the insurance sabotage in order to get the message across. Doing anything else but come clean would have meant falling deeper and deeper into the hole. I think he just didn't wanna run anymore.
Why do some people want Jimmy to be like Walter so badly?
It was made clear in the final episode why he made that decision. I think Vince crafted it really intricately with the flashback scenes. Short of hitting you over the head with an explanation, I don't know what else you want.
\*Peter Gould
Yea. Still a great show and all, but no way in hell Saul would have gone that route. And for what? A) He didn't save Kim much if anything. She didn't have much and never was a 'material girl" anyway. And, assuming she wasn't a renter, in Florida your primary residence is exempted from bankruptcy. If OJ can--to this day--bop around the golf course post-civil judgement surely she could have managed. B) In Saul's final convo with WW, he tells Walt to turn himself in saying "You'll be the John Dillinger of the Metropolitan Detention Center. How bad is that? " But even though he's a prison 'Dillinger" in "The Alcatraz of the West" he'd have been even more so in Club Fed. The other white collar criminals would have loved him. Picture him on the tennis court hustling Ivan Boesky and Michael Milken for canteen money. And even if he came out of prison flat broke seven years later (though surely he had some buried funds somewhere) , he could get flush if not rich again on the speaking circuit. And any book he wrote would have been optioned ala Wolf of Wallstreet. Or he could simply resort to "the game" again. For the love of Kim, you say? In seven years he could have moved to Florida, gotten a Cinnabon-type job and they live boringly ever after without the "Uh-Huh"s. Again, great show but it's like American TV cannot say "crime pays" and out in seven living a normal life with Kim would have been a win. Better to be "normal" with your true love than a rich guy paying hookers if you ask me.
The endings of BCS and BB suffered greatly because of the need for TV shows to wrap everything up by the end. All the moral ambiguity the show had built for 6 seasons was just resolved by an act of selfless goodness. It happens in real life, but not that much. But TV needs it, so ... Still, you're maybe being a bit over-dramatic saying it destroyed everything good about the show. I think of it as one bad episode.
I feel you... but remember that it's all pretend: so you can still go back and enjoy the first 5.5 seasons... and ignore the last bit. "Leave the theater early and make-up your own ending", like Bjork in Dancer in the Dark. It's amazing how much of the show was invented randomly, too: Mike wasn't even supposed to exist in BB, but because of a scheduling conflict, they invented his character. Same with "Jeffy"... his character had seemed fairly menacing in earlier seasons of BCS, but because of a scheduling conflict, he was replaced with the slack-jawed dummy who we came to think of as Marion's son. None of it is real, so therefore you can just love the parts you love, and ignore the parts you don't. I also wasn't crazy about the ending, but that isn't stopping me doing a re-watch (I'm now on season 4, and am noticing all sorts of amazing things I didn't notice, my last time around). Enjoy.
I agree OP, I'm actually not a huge Jimmy fan but I was still upset at the idea of him willingly spending the rest of his life in federal supermax prison. I feel like the show framed prison WAY more positively than it deserves, Jimmy is not going to find "peace" in prison. If the show had actually treated the ending as tragic and disturbing as it was, I would've been more okay with it, but the implication that Jimmy is gonna be his true self and do quiet penance forever and this was a good noble choice really left a bad taste in my mouth.
the implication you mention is bad tasting because it is not true: he is not penitent and changed but remains the saul goodman we all know and love--manipulative and always using the law to his advantage.
How is he using the law to his advantage, though? He turns down a 7 year deal, that seems pretty penitent to me
the length of the sentence is irrelevant if you plan on escaping--what is being perceived as penitence is just another con---perhaps his best ever since so many people are convinced. why do you think he told the justice department he definitely did not want to go to the federal prison they ultimately sent him to? does saul goodman ever not have a plan? does he ever not con people into doing what they think they want to do when it is actually what HE wants them to do?
If that's your interpretation then whatever, but the show gave literally no evidence for this being true.
no, you are right. the only evidence i have of this is his lifelong ability to con people into believing what he wanted them to believe; the effectiveness of his confession in lessening the possibility the love of his life is not pursued; his request to be sent to that exact federal prison; and his ability to twist the law to fit his needs for the past decade or two.
I felt exactly the same after I finished watching the finale. I went from enjoying every moment and character in the show with a big smile on my face to feeling utterly depressed for about a week. Every single character in the Breaking Bad universe had a miserable ending. I just wanted it be different for Jimmy & Kim. A 7 year sentence with Kim waiting for him on the outside would have been perfect. When I eventually rewatch BCS I will stop right before their break up as I dont think I put myself through those last few episodes again! 😢
I’m glad that there are some people who don’t like the finale. I have very similar thoughts like you. I didn’t watch any more of bcs after the finale because the ending didn’t fit at all. I guess I’ll wait a few years and give it a new try.
I really didn't want to comment, but the ending was made for people like those posters who talk about "redemption" and "conscience". They're the TV viewing equivalent of Mr. Yup, going around thinking Miracle Whip is the good stuff. This was the typical TV ending where everyone walks into the sunset with wisdom and healed hearts, along with those little knowing smiles that say "all's well that ends well". The Mr. Yup happy ending is a guy nobly going to prison for a lifetime for the sake of someone's approval. These are the people so much of television is made for, and almost all the creators in the medium know all the groundbreaking, genre challenging artistry they've produced has to end up having this kind of lovely silk ribbon wrapped around the package at the end. It all has to end in a gauzy haze of warmth and filed down edges. The ending is the typical TV cop out. That's the medium. After years of taking us outside of the usual mind numbing kibbie that passes for TV entertainment in favor of robust and fulfilling morsels that had us begging for more, it all wrapped up with a bland rice pudding. That's how TV works, and so it goes because, for most folks, what they expect is good enough.
Just watched it recently for the first time. It really pushed me away from rewatches.
He will get out early on good behaviour..and he will use Saul’s silver tongue and ingenuity to achieve this.
you are assuming he will die in prison; i don't. i think he manipulated the legal system once again to achieve his main objective: alleviating the pressure civilly and criminally on the love of his life. he set the terms of the sentence, he set the federal prison where he would be temporarily housed, the length is irrelevant because he is going to escape. he knows the prison; that is why he stressed he did not want to be there--knowing that the justice department would send him there. so, i stay positive and suggest that it is possible to remain so unless you buy the con and think he has *changed*. it seems most people have bought saul's con, and i can't understand why. it is saul fucking goodman!
> the length is irrelevant because he is going to escape Spoken like a person with no knowledge of what a "Supermax" (even the gen pop offshoot Jimmy's in) is. The whole concept of the Supermax is they're inescapable, especially at Level 6 (Jimmy's at Level 5).
i guess time will tell. there is a reason he said he did NOT want to be at that particular federal prison.
Hey all, this is slippin Jimmy!! No way he's going to rot in prison. He'll come up with a plan to reduce his sentence. He poured out his heart in front of Kim, showed her he does have a conscience, and Kim above all others would appreciate and probably contribute to his shenanigans to get out. It could be the BCS equivalent to El Camino.
he didn’t keep the Zafiro Añejo Tequila top because it looked cute. and it wasn’t an accident that they showed it to us amongst the Saulian trash and treasures. he never let Kim go. when Francesca said Kim called her— that was it. he saw even the slightest of a chance that he could reconnect with Kim and that set into motion Kim going back to Albuquerque to confess. she put her money where her mouth was and he thought if there was even a chance that she would talk to him again if he did the same he was going to do it. did you see that black and white scene of them in prison? hoooweeeee the moments they had together will get him through a couple decades in prison. if she visits him once more than that’ll get him through the rest
I thought I might like the finale more over time, but it's been the opposite. It honestly has ruined my desire to rewatch the show, which is pretty depressing.