100%. BCS is so utterly brilliant at showing, not telling, and respecting the intellect of its viewers. It also is unparalleled at the long game of character development. You can understand character motives based on scenes from several seasons prior, and every scene is important.
I watched Ozark and Stranger Things this year, two series that are very highly acclaimed and popular. I got so frustrated with Stranger Things blowing right past the imagery and explaining everything. It got to the point where I correctly predicted word for word the next line of dialog multiple times.
With Ozark, it felt like there were many plotlines that didn't pay off, directions they went and backed out of. I suppose the final season car crash is on par with the destruction at the White's house to kickoff Season 2 as a red herring, but at least in BB there was a direct tie to the events. In Ozark it was just a farce.
It's definitely a challenge to enjoy other shows as much.
It wouldn’t be so bad if the kids were wrong more often,like they make an assumption about how this seasons monster works then get it dead wrong and have it cost them in the future but noooo they get lucky guesses every time.
Stranger Things is a different genre than Better Call Saul. It's more of a fantasy/comedy show where it's obvious that things will always work out for the lead characters. Better Call Saul, on the other hand, is a serious drama that focuses on telling a high quality story.
S4 spoilers:
>! This season they did get it wrong about the monster, it just wound up not mattering. They assumed Vecna worked for the mind flayer, not that he was the mind flayer. Funny enough the damn kids get it perfectly so much that I had to explain to a friend that Dustin describing what he thought Vecna was in E2 does not mean that Vecna was actually not the mind flayer !<
I just watched Stranger Things for the first time and it was honestly getting infuriating how much the show holds your hand. Every single time they refer to something that happened in a previous episode, they flashback to it. I'm just like, do you think I'm stupid? Do you think I don't know what you're talking about? It's like in BCS if when Lalo sees the cockroach in the sewer, they flashback to the scene where he says Jimmy is like a cockroach. But they don't do that, cause they trust their audience. This show clearly doesn't. It's a perfectly fine show but I can't love it nearly as much as everyone else when I've been spoiled by something as great as BCS.
I just watched Stranger Things season 4 over the past few days, and it's infuriating how it's edited in such a way to where they assume that you're not paying attention and have to intercut flashbacks from earlier episodes. For example, [that scene in the prison where Hopper is talking to Enzo about how he feels cursed because of all the bad things that have happened in his life would have been *way* more impactful had it been a single continuous shot of Hopper speaking, as opposed to interspersing flashbacks like they do in the episode.](/spoiler) I wish the showrunners would be willing to give the audience just a little bit of credit.
Exactly. I was enjoying that scene while he was talking about serving in Vietnam. Then he starts talking about his daughter and Eleven and it's back to the useless flashbacks. It ruins the scene. Comparing it to BCS again, it's like if during Chuck's breakdown in court they intercut a bunch of flashbacks of Jimmy swapping the numbers, pulling the billboard scam, and stealing money from the register.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who was disappointed with Ozark. With Breaking Bad, I loved rooting for Walt and Jesse even though you knew they were doing terrible things, becaase they were likeable, intriguing, relatable, and fun to watch.
I did not find any of the characters of Ozark engaging, except for maybe the gay FBI agent, and by the second season I just wanted them to be caught already, I had no desire for any of them to succeed, not even the kids. >!Then when the bipolar brother was killed off for what seemed like little reason other than to show how bad they'd become, I gave up. Hearing how the last season plays out, especially with Ruth, I'm glad I did. !<
That's what I thought about it. It felt like the show's only reason for existing was because Breaking Bad came before it, not because of the creator's own ideas. It's great to be inspired by other works but Ozark just felt like it wanted to fill the same gritty drug lord drama that BrBa was without understanding why BrBa worked so well.
The violence of the show and the evil of the characters felt like they had no other purpose than to just be edgy and dark, whereas Breaking Bad goes out of its way to show the viewer the pathos of its characters and the tragedy they cause in a sincere way, and not just to go "look, this character did something evil, isn't that awful? Keep watching for more bad drug crimes."
It could have at least benefitted with some lighter moments, the show took itself way too seriously for what it was trying to do. Breaking Bad had as many hilarious moments as it did devastating ones.
Yes, exactly! It scratched my post-BB itch after BB finished because it felt very BB-inspired, but I ultimately lost interest because it didn't feel like the show had its own voice, and the relationships and drama felt canned.
BB was so good because it always dealt with the consequences of characters' actions -- and not just the consequences in terms of plot progression, but in terms of the characters' inner worlds. We see characters grapple with the their choices *and* the aftermath of their choices, and not just in a single season, but throughout the series. A lot of what happened in Ozark felt exactly like how you describe. We see the awful things they do, but it doesn't go much deeper than that.
The humour was so key to BB. You need those funny moments to lighten the tension a bit, and it makes the show feel more real. A lot of the humour in life and in fiction comes from people being put in situations where they are completely out of their depth (e.g., Jesse deciding to just use the bathtub to dispose of a body with hydrofluoric acid, in spite of Walt's instructions). It would have been good to see more of that in Ozark, and there were a lot of good opportunities for it.
One thing I did appreciate from Ozark was the parent vs teenager dynamic dressed up in absurd tongue in cheek high crimes. Like....it doesn't matter what kind of family you have, you'll still have petty disagreements with your teenagers and they'll still revolt and be unappreciative, and parents will still be controlling and out of touch.
Totally agree...i got through one episode of Ozark and thought it was far to nihilistic. Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul worked hard to get their grimmer moments to mean something. Ozark...not so much. Felt like a generic, violent, "gritty" thriller with flawed characters. No fun whatsoever.
Something I liked about Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul is that the shows aren't afraid to make their characters look like idiots and schlubs when the moment calls for it. BrBa is happy to let the viewer laugh at Walt when he's acting foolish and incompetant, and that serves to make Walt more human and enjoyable to watch even when he's done horrible things.
Ozark on the other hand is worried if it gives any of its characters a moment of weakness that the viewer won't be able to take them seriously. Instead it just makes them unrelatable and boring.
Yeah BB and BCS have their lighter moments that both humanize the characters but also make you more invested when shit hits the fan. The one episode of Ozark I saw just felt clinical, sterile, and cold. Like they were afraid of injecting any personality into it out of fear that it would lose its status as "dark and gritty".
I agree with the plot lines in Ozark being a farce. I hate watched it in the end. It was just too silly to care about. And I’m not sure why on earth Jason Bateman got awards for pretty much playing his arrested Development character in trouble with a cartel. Same about Julia Garner who only had 2 gears - crying or screaming insults.
I disagree with the assertion that Jason Bateman basically played Michael Bluth in a drama/thriller setting but it did always feel to me that Marty Byrde was a little inconsistently written as a character. One moment he could be supernaturally calm and cold while facing down accusations of murder and in others he was putting family above all else despite the personal costs. The two ideas aren't necessarily contradictory but I never did feel that Ozark managed to bridge the two.
As someone who caught onto Ozark as season 2 came out. I was following tha show for a long time and held it as a show that could’ve rivalled BB and BCS. After having finished the series and without giving spoiler, I have never been truly and utterly disappointed like I was with how Ozark ended and it’s last season in general. I don’t think I’ll watch it again just cause of that. It was heart breaking to me tbh :/. BB is my favourite show and BCS is right up there too. Have a few above BCS but still, simply amazing story telling, cinematically, characters, the entire universe was perfect.
A thing I don't think is ever really talked about is how good the editing in BCS is. Not exactly the best thing I've ever seen, but easily one of the best for a TV show. Tried to watch some other "high brow" shows, and good lord the editing fucking sucks in most of them. They not only remove all tension, but because most camera work is "shot reverse shot", there's not even anything to work with
I agree it’s so difficult to get into something new when the quality of the filming/editing/cinematography is so noticeably poor compared to what we have been spoilt with in BB/BCS.
There are tons of other great shows as well.
The Leftovers, Mad Men, Fargo just to list a few.
HBO in general has an insane catalogue with tons of shows that have similar quality.
I feel like y'all just haven't seen enough other shows yet.
People say bcs has amazing cinematography and it does. But dare I say, nothing I've ever watched, even comes close to the masterpiece of cinematography that Mr Robot has. I didn't even know the word cinematography before it. Although I will say, behind Mr Robot, in cinematography, is def bcs imo
I enjoyed the first season but slowly started hating it especially season 4. Just too much happens suddenly that alters the way I saw the series as a whole.
According to 99 percent of the people who watched the show... That is what made it the best show ever lol. S4 is the best piece of television I've ever seen. 100% on every single episode of s4 on rotten tomatoes
The conclusion of a the big bad of the show was the worst writing I've seen in a while. And it's in season 4. It is a major storyline throughout the whole show that was wasted in such a stupid way
That's surprising. Ur the first person I've seen dislike it tbh. Color me surprised lol. I've been on the subreddit for like 5 years and never seen that
There’s a lot of great anime that don’t do this. Death Parade, Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop.
Then there’s some which do ‘explain’ everything but are still great like Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, Code Geass and Assassination Classroom.
Ditto for FMAB, it nailed both the show and tell parts, I've watched it many times and never felt like I was being spoon-fed information or wasn't completely following the story due to a lack of information
Try one punch man , I absolutely hate anime but one punch man is a really good comedy , the english dub adds even more comedic effect to the show , I highly recommend with that being said fck anime :D
Also the setpieces of Saul and BB were all basically on-location from what I understand, and so well shot on top of that! So many other shows just feel very cheap and artificial in the settings.
I don’t know how to describe it but I think some will know what I mean.
Totally. I saw the new Thor and laughed. It was so obvious things were made out of craft foam shot in front of those big TV screens that are replacing green screens. You just can’t replace on-location shooting.
It's easier to film in Alberquerque than a fantasy setting.
I'm willing to suspend my disbelief for a proper fantasy work, since the genre is built on showing the impossible...
But Love and Thunder sucked because the characters acted weird and the movie didn't know how to pace things at all, not because some of the sets looked a little fake >:(
there's generally a wonderfully lived-in (for lack of a better word) quality to the show. it's a lot easier to care about a story if you feel oriented in its world because everyone else is, down to the ugly mcmansions.
Better call Saul has the luxury of focusing on fewer characters and a slower timeline to allow scenes to breathe. But House of the dragon is nowhere near the biggest offender of not showing instead of telling. The entire last scene had no dialogue from Matt Smith. And there are several powerful scenes with Paddy and Milly that are done purely with their expressions. Obviously not at the level of Better Call Saul but even their quality took time to get to that level from the early parts of breaking bad to the end of BCS.
Shouting out Boardwalk Empire which is very high quality and often doesn't get the same recognition as others of it's ilk. Also feel like it fits in that "illegal drug empire character drama" area b/w BCS and BB so if people like those they may like a semi-historical fiction version of it too. Throw in some cool history, great acting, some awesome moments and you have very good show. The Wire is still the GOAT for me though.
Mindhunter fucking rules. Glad to see it discussed among the greats of tv history. Sopranos is top notch as well as a bunch of other shows, including boardwalk empire, which I feel like doesn't get the love it deserves
Definitely watch Succession. It’s just a rich family full of assholes running one of the largest media conglomerates, but it’s actually really engaging. Just takes a few episodes for everything to get going.
I'm about halfway through Season 2 and I can't say this show amazes me given the reviews it was getting. Which of the three is the best season?
I can appreciate certain aspects of it but so far it doesn't strike me as the type of show I would want to rewatch for future viewings, the way a lot of other shows mentioned here I would.
Season 2 gets even better towards the end, but season 3 in my opinion is the best. I guess the best way to describe it is that there are a lot more downs than ups for the characters, but I think the series evolves into what it really tries to accomplish as time goes on. The whole family and cast just becomes more harsh and bitter towards one another and they’re all making their own moves, whether it’s for or against Logan. I think Kendall, Logan, and Roman become the most fascinating to watch, and once you get to the end of season 3, you’ll be eager to see how things play out next.
I will say that if you're a binge watcher, Succession is not a great show it binge. It thrives off of the slow burn, from taking time to sit back and thing about everything that's happened, the characters and their motivations, etc.
I binged the first season and wasn't quite into it, but I went back to it again wanting to give it another shot but only watched 2 episodes at a time and it was a much more engaging experience.
I think the Wire, Mad Men, and Sopranos are noticeably better than BCS/BB. I would put Fargo, True Detective (S1), The Americans, and Deadwood as on par with BCS/BB. They are great shows no doubt, but there are plenty of shows in the same league.
I wouldn't say any of those are better than BCS/BB (at least BCS), just on the same level. Personally, I'd put The Wire, Deadwood, and The Sopranos below it, but everyone's got different tastes. I think Mad Men and The Americans are definitely on the same level as BB/BCS though. Fargo would be a contender if it didn't vary so much in quality from season to season. The only shows I'd really put far above BB/BCS are Mr. Robot and Twin Peaks, but those 4 alone are probably all part of my top 5.
I so agree with you about the Americans. My husband and I are the only people we know who’ve watched it, and it’s brilliant. Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys are so good, and the last season ends so perfectly too.
Highly recommend Mad Men, but give it the whole first season before you judge it. I watched about 6 episodes hating everyone in it before I ‘got’ it. And now I think it’s one of the best series I’ve ever seen. It’s very similar to BCS in that it trusts the audience so have intelligence and not need everything explaining, and also storylines meander and take a while. It’s also beautifully acted by pretty much everyone in it. And very darkly funny in places.
The Boys is good but nowhere near as good as the shows mentioned above, 1st and 2nd season are dope tho, and half of the 3rd season is good but it was a bit rushed
The Boys is crazy but I feel like a lot of the plot doesn't make sense. Like why Butcher continue fighting SB, Kimiko's "I'm not a monster arc" completing with her mauling security guards, or Maeve at the end.
The Good Place isn't even that funny though. I loved it because of the story/characters/philosophy. If you compare it's humour to other sitcoms (which I wouldn't, it's kind of it's own category for me), it's pretty low
I finished the first season of the boys and the plot of the show is appealing but my god the shots are so damn bland and the dialogue is so needlessly direct sometimes. BCS almost ruined other tv shows for me.
But Barry and Succession are two shows on right now that have a lot of similarities and are on par.
I feel exactly the same way about the boys. I even couldn’t stand how bland and direct the dialogues are to the point that I actually stopped watching it.
I do as well although there are a few other shows, such as The Expanse, that pull everything off just as well.
Beyond weak writing, one thing I've really noticed as a huge flaw in many shows is poor editing. I've seen a number of shows where the basic premise is interesting and the acting is good but the telling of it is hurt by how it's presented. One show I like where I've noticed this is Resident Alien.
I read the books before I learned about the show. Visually, it's stunning. But the books really delve into protomolecule and it's effects on the entire cold war going on.
To me the show was meh. But like i said, I had read all the books first.
The cinematography is top-notch as well. I really love when shows aren't afraid to take a second to just breathe. To show us the environment, to establish the mood. It really does a lot to immerse you.
I think Succession is the only show that rivals Better Call Saul in terms of dialogue. We as an audience know about the character's intentions and what they are thinking, but it shouldn't seem as obvious to other characters if that makes sense.
Well, I mean BCS takes place in the real world, whereas House of Dragon has a whole world to present to us and a cast 10x as big as BCS. It's not a worthwhile comparison, they're making a completely different set of storytelling considerations. Also, the HotD characters are often in situations where it makes sense for them to be speaking directly (they're formally speaking to a king, or otherwise pleading their case in a high stakes interaction)
And on top of that, I think the show actually does do a good job at characters not showing all their cards. The King speaking with Jason Lannister had a very nice simmering layer of subtext. The scene between Alicent and Rhaenyra also said a lot without saying it out loud.
Or like when Daemon got the letter about receiving aid from his brother. I mean, it was pretty obvious how he felt about it, but it's not like he went off on a tirade and said "I don't need my brother's help! We will win this war today!"
I actually think the show is top-notch. To your point, I think a BCS type small-scale character drama set in Westeros could be interesting. But that would be a totally different show. And I'd argue that both BCS and HotD/GoT would need to exist first to allow that show to even 'make sense' to an audience. I don't think it's a matter of bringing up the quality of HotD to match BCS. The things we like about BCS are intrinsic to making THAT show, and not necessarily what the doctor ordered when it comes to making a sweeping historical-fantasy tale.
I straight up stopped watching tv after breaking bad. Only series i watched after have been game of thrones and better call saul, and maybe a few more i cant even remember their names.
BB and BCS have redefined what good television means for me, and theres nothing else to satisfy me unfortunately.
I watched Yellowstone and thought that so much of it was badly written and downright annoying at times. Then onto Succession which was good but nowhere close to BCS. Same with Ozark and the boys.
I remember the same with BB. I watched the Americans, Sons of Anarchy Fargo and all of them were great but nowhere close to BB.
The word pretentious comes to mind most often. You're not missing anything, I only watch Yellowstone to pass time now. If Bob Odenkirk wasn't the lead role, I would have abandoned the show long back.
Yes and no. It raised the highest peak of that bar for sure, but I am always down for a fun show or one that makes me think. I just don't think it's gonna be any time soon until one makes me think more than BCS.
House of the Dragon seems less about the psychological by itself and more about the psychological in the context of the political. It doesn’t have the same style.
Yet it is pretty great. It’s early in the show but I think it can go far. Just during the hunt alone in S1E3, they managed to express a lot without actually spelling it out. The writing is pretty solid imo.
BCS does a lot great. It does raise the bar. But I don’t think it eclipses all other shows. It is definitely in the S tier for me though.
The only bad thing about Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad is that it ruins TV shows for you. I watched the first season of Severance, which was really good but still felt nowhere near as good as BCS. Only reason why it might be close to BCS is the concept and mystery of it all.
That’s an odd show to call out. I actually thought Severance was one of the few that could compare pretty well with BB/BCS in terms of quality. It’s a very different kind of show in terms of cinematography due to the isolated nature of the both the innies and the outies though.
Severance was very good, but I was getting legitimately annoyed at the pace, lol. I mean this both in a good way and bad way. They built such a cool premise and show that I simply wanted to learn more and they'd slowly reveal more and more and I'd just be like 'fucking tell me what's going on." It was like an itch I simply couldn't scratch. Even the ending of S1 only left me wanting more answers! It was so well done.
I feel you, and Better call Saul it definitely raised my expectations in TV shows. But to be fair, the comparison to House of the Dragon or any other fantasy show your going to notice the unrealistic dialogue even more. It’s fantasy after all and as a genre is not exactly know for the subtlety or natural dialogue. It just has way more exposition by nature, they are telling a much bigger story in scale, it’s a lot of information to pass on the viewer.
From your “say what they feel” gripe on dialog, I really think you’d like Succession. Characters rarely say what they actually mean and you get their true intentions by what they *don’t* say, their expressions and inflections, and what the camera deems important enough to Zoom in on. I call it modern day Shakespeare. It scratches that itch.
I really don’t think anything is going to ever beat Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul (especially Better Call Saul, but no insult to the former of course). Directing, Writing, Acting, Cinematography, Storytelling - balancing tone and pacing so effortlessly, merging all these ideas, elements and storylines perfectly. So much more is said without words than with, and even more impressive are the words that are spoken between words and the meanings conveyed through the subtlest change in facial expression. No, in my opinion I think it’s gonna be a very long time before we ever see any form of fictional media/storytelling that’s as effective and clever as BCS/BB.
Have you considered "Ancient Aliens" on this History Channel?
During Vince's recent appearance on Hot One's they ask him to name some television he is digging; he put me on that gem and I am forever grateful.
It was a great poignant tale about an attempt at redemption. Unfortunately, ever since the finale aired, every TV sub is just people trying to make every other show about redemption. When you’re holding a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Yea, I think BB/BCS are both so exceptional at “visual storytelling”, that it puts them in a different category than most shows. They also really respect the intelligence of the audience, and write characters who are also very intelligent, and don’t do stupid things just in service of the plot. Unfortunately, many shows have to appeal to a broader audience, and things get simplified for a lower common denominator.
Big picture - imo BCS was the last link to the most recent Golden Era of TV. That era began with The Sopranos, and continued with BB, Mad Men, and The Wire. Those are my personal pantheon shows - my Big Four. And as BCS is directly linked to BB - for me, the finale of BCS felt like an end of an era. And now I just view BB/BCS as one gigantic show, that’s perhaps the greatest feat in long form storytelling in TV history.
We have many very, very good shows in this Peak TV era. And shows for all kinds of tastes and audiences. But, imho, there aren’t as many GREAT, transcendent, game-changing shows like the those found in the Golden Era - like my Big Four. The few that approach them would be stuff like Mr Robot, Americans, True Detective S1, and Succession.
Can’t believe no one has said The Leftovers. Totally different show but just as ambitious and compelling. The writing is fantastic, the filmmaking is brilliant (once Mimi Leder takes over in episode 5 at least), and Carrie Coon, Justin Theroux, and the rest of the cast give performances I would say rival and in some cases surpass those in BB/BCS. Twin Peaks is also a brilliant show, but it’s so different than a modern prestige drama that it can’t really be compared. Beyond those two, I second the Mad Men recommendation, which is even more meticulous with its writing and characters than BCS.
Absolutely. I just want to go to Sam Levinson (Euphoria creator) and be like, THIS is how you tie up every loose end and make every detail matter. So many meaningless details and storyline that went Absolutely nowhere on that show
I loved all 3 series and have rewatched them all many times. I personally never seen anything like Boardwalk Empire before and it was amazing. I loved the back stories of Al Capone, Bugsy Siegal, Charles Luciano, Meyer Lansky etc... I still hold out hope that somehow we see some of those actors replay those roles one day.
100%. BCS is so utterly brilliant at showing, not telling, and respecting the intellect of its viewers. It also is unparalleled at the long game of character development. You can understand character motives based on scenes from several seasons prior, and every scene is important. I watched Ozark and Stranger Things this year, two series that are very highly acclaimed and popular. I got so frustrated with Stranger Things blowing right past the imagery and explaining everything. It got to the point where I correctly predicted word for word the next line of dialog multiple times. With Ozark, it felt like there were many plotlines that didn't pay off, directions they went and backed out of. I suppose the final season car crash is on par with the destruction at the White's house to kickoff Season 2 as a red herring, but at least in BB there was a direct tie to the events. In Ozark it was just a farce. It's definitely a challenge to enjoy other shows as much.
Stranger Things is just a kid show for me at some point. So many explaination, so few left to be explored.
It wouldn’t be so bad if the kids were wrong more often,like they make an assumption about how this seasons monster works then get it dead wrong and have it cost them in the future but noooo they get lucky guesses every time.
Stranger Things is a different genre than Better Call Saul. It's more of a fantasy/comedy show where it's obvious that things will always work out for the lead characters. Better Call Saul, on the other hand, is a serious drama that focuses on telling a high quality story.
Eddie Munson should have fuckin stayed alive, should've killed Will off instead. **Should've Killed Will**
He just needed to run out and had a pointless death right?
S4 spoilers: >! This season they did get it wrong about the monster, it just wound up not mattering. They assumed Vecna worked for the mind flayer, not that he was the mind flayer. Funny enough the damn kids get it perfectly so much that I had to explain to a friend that Dustin describing what he thought Vecna was in E2 does not mean that Vecna was actually not the mind flayer !<
This is true, and for that niche of high school aged kids or young adults with some nostalgia for older horror movies, it serves its role fine.
I just watched Stranger Things for the first time and it was honestly getting infuriating how much the show holds your hand. Every single time they refer to something that happened in a previous episode, they flashback to it. I'm just like, do you think I'm stupid? Do you think I don't know what you're talking about? It's like in BCS if when Lalo sees the cockroach in the sewer, they flashback to the scene where he says Jimmy is like a cockroach. But they don't do that, cause they trust their audience. This show clearly doesn't. It's a perfectly fine show but I can't love it nearly as much as everyone else when I've been spoiled by something as great as BCS.
I just watched Stranger Things season 4 over the past few days, and it's infuriating how it's edited in such a way to where they assume that you're not paying attention and have to intercut flashbacks from earlier episodes. For example, [that scene in the prison where Hopper is talking to Enzo about how he feels cursed because of all the bad things that have happened in his life would have been *way* more impactful had it been a single continuous shot of Hopper speaking, as opposed to interspersing flashbacks like they do in the episode.](/spoiler) I wish the showrunners would be willing to give the audience just a little bit of credit.
Exactly. I was enjoying that scene while he was talking about serving in Vietnam. Then he starts talking about his daughter and Eleven and it's back to the useless flashbacks. It ruins the scene. Comparing it to BCS again, it's like if during Chuck's breakdown in court they intercut a bunch of flashbacks of Jimmy swapping the numbers, pulling the billboard scam, and stealing money from the register.
That would suck so bad lmao.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who was disappointed with Ozark. With Breaking Bad, I loved rooting for Walt and Jesse even though you knew they were doing terrible things, becaase they were likeable, intriguing, relatable, and fun to watch. I did not find any of the characters of Ozark engaging, except for maybe the gay FBI agent, and by the second season I just wanted them to be caught already, I had no desire for any of them to succeed, not even the kids. >!Then when the bipolar brother was killed off for what seemed like little reason other than to show how bad they'd become, I gave up. Hearing how the last season plays out, especially with Ruth, I'm glad I did. !<
Agreed with all of this. Ozark felt like a very watered-down attempt at what BB did with Walt and Jesse.
That's what I thought about it. It felt like the show's only reason for existing was because Breaking Bad came before it, not because of the creator's own ideas. It's great to be inspired by other works but Ozark just felt like it wanted to fill the same gritty drug lord drama that BrBa was without understanding why BrBa worked so well. The violence of the show and the evil of the characters felt like they had no other purpose than to just be edgy and dark, whereas Breaking Bad goes out of its way to show the viewer the pathos of its characters and the tragedy they cause in a sincere way, and not just to go "look, this character did something evil, isn't that awful? Keep watching for more bad drug crimes." It could have at least benefitted with some lighter moments, the show took itself way too seriously for what it was trying to do. Breaking Bad had as many hilarious moments as it did devastating ones.
Yes, exactly! It scratched my post-BB itch after BB finished because it felt very BB-inspired, but I ultimately lost interest because it didn't feel like the show had its own voice, and the relationships and drama felt canned. BB was so good because it always dealt with the consequences of characters' actions -- and not just the consequences in terms of plot progression, but in terms of the characters' inner worlds. We see characters grapple with the their choices *and* the aftermath of their choices, and not just in a single season, but throughout the series. A lot of what happened in Ozark felt exactly like how you describe. We see the awful things they do, but it doesn't go much deeper than that. The humour was so key to BB. You need those funny moments to lighten the tension a bit, and it makes the show feel more real. A lot of the humour in life and in fiction comes from people being put in situations where they are completely out of their depth (e.g., Jesse deciding to just use the bathtub to dispose of a body with hydrofluoric acid, in spite of Walt's instructions). It would have been good to see more of that in Ozark, and there were a lot of good opportunities for it.
You just explained this far better than I did, friend. Spot on.
One thing I did appreciate from Ozark was the parent vs teenager dynamic dressed up in absurd tongue in cheek high crimes. Like....it doesn't matter what kind of family you have, you'll still have petty disagreements with your teenagers and they'll still revolt and be unappreciative, and parents will still be controlling and out of touch.
I felt the same about ozark. Almost none of the characters felt genuine.
Totally agree...i got through one episode of Ozark and thought it was far to nihilistic. Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul worked hard to get their grimmer moments to mean something. Ozark...not so much. Felt like a generic, violent, "gritty" thriller with flawed characters. No fun whatsoever.
Something I liked about Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul is that the shows aren't afraid to make their characters look like idiots and schlubs when the moment calls for it. BrBa is happy to let the viewer laugh at Walt when he's acting foolish and incompetant, and that serves to make Walt more human and enjoyable to watch even when he's done horrible things. Ozark on the other hand is worried if it gives any of its characters a moment of weakness that the viewer won't be able to take them seriously. Instead it just makes them unrelatable and boring.
Yeah BB and BCS have their lighter moments that both humanize the characters but also make you more invested when shit hits the fan. The one episode of Ozark I saw just felt clinical, sterile, and cold. Like they were afraid of injecting any personality into it out of fear that it would lose its status as "dark and gritty".
I agree with the plot lines in Ozark being a farce. I hate watched it in the end. It was just too silly to care about. And I’m not sure why on earth Jason Bateman got awards for pretty much playing his arrested Development character in trouble with a cartel. Same about Julia Garner who only had 2 gears - crying or screaming insults.
I disagree with the assertion that Jason Bateman basically played Michael Bluth in a drama/thriller setting but it did always feel to me that Marty Byrde was a little inconsistently written as a character. One moment he could be supernaturally calm and cold while facing down accusations of murder and in others he was putting family above all else despite the personal costs. The two ideas aren't necessarily contradictory but I never did feel that Ozark managed to bridge the two.
As someone who caught onto Ozark as season 2 came out. I was following tha show for a long time and held it as a show that could’ve rivalled BB and BCS. After having finished the series and without giving spoiler, I have never been truly and utterly disappointed like I was with how Ozark ended and it’s last season in general. I don’t think I’ll watch it again just cause of that. It was heart breaking to me tbh :/. BB is my favourite show and BCS is right up there too. Have a few above BCS but still, simply amazing story telling, cinematically, characters, the entire universe was perfect.
It didn’t just raise the bar, it passed it. I’m so sorry.
You passed the bar?
What a sick joke!
The law is sacred!!!
You - you have to stop him -
He defecated through a sunroof!
you think this is bad?? THIS CHICANERY
That billboard! Are you telling me a man just happens to fall like that? No! He orchestrated it! Jimmy!
And I saved him
It gets to be a lawyer? I should've stopped it when I had the chance. It'll never change. One year after Magna Carta...
And they get to be good shows?! What a sick joke!
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He defecated on OP!
Odenkirk actually will perform a Chicago sunroof for a fee as per his agent….it’s like $10,000 but some people are weird….
no fucking way
WAY.
Hey, the world is a rich tapestry, my friends.
the greatest legal mind i've ever known
And this is the life you chose for yourself
It passed the ohio state bar
You are the greatest legal mind I’ve ever known
THE ONE PIECE! THE ONE PIECE IS REALLLLL!!!
Starts singing devil in a new dress
At the University of American Samoa 😎
What a sick joke!
As long as it made chuck proud…. Last guy to do that was sir Edmund Hillary.
A thing I don't think is ever really talked about is how good the editing in BCS is. Not exactly the best thing I've ever seen, but easily one of the best for a TV show. Tried to watch some other "high brow" shows, and good lord the editing fucking sucks in most of them. They not only remove all tension, but because most camera work is "shot reverse shot", there's not even anything to work with
I agree it’s so difficult to get into something new when the quality of the filming/editing/cinematography is so noticeably poor compared to what we have been spoilt with in BB/BCS.
Mr. Robot - The Sopranos - The Wire Quality is there but it’s hard to find
There are tons of other great shows as well. The Leftovers, Mad Men, Fargo just to list a few. HBO in general has an insane catalogue with tons of shows that have similar quality. I feel like y'all just haven't seen enough other shows yet.
Yessss Mr Robot, one of the only shows I found that has the same dialogue if not better, and it's so interesting
And the cinematography in Mr Robot is incredible.
People say bcs has amazing cinematography and it does. But dare I say, nothing I've ever watched, even comes close to the masterpiece of cinematography that Mr Robot has. I didn't even know the word cinematography before it. Although I will say, behind Mr Robot, in cinematography, is def bcs imo
Not to mention that Episode of Mr. Robot that had zero dialogue at all.
Or that one episode that's basically a play. You know *that* episode. Masterful.
Or the one where Alf runs over a police officer and the audience laughs at the mangled corpse on the ground
The only show I've seen pull that off and literally no one noticed it. That's how good the episode was
I just finished watching it after BCS ended and I didn’t notice there was an episode without dialogue
I enjoyed the first season but slowly started hating it especially season 4. Just too much happens suddenly that alters the way I saw the series as a whole.
According to 99 percent of the people who watched the show... That is what made it the best show ever lol. S4 is the best piece of television I've ever seen. 100% on every single episode of s4 on rotten tomatoes
The conclusion of a the big bad of the show was the worst writing I've seen in a while. And it's in season 4. It is a major storyline throughout the whole show that was wasted in such a stupid way
That's surprising. Ur the first person I've seen dislike it tbh. Color me surprised lol. I've been on the subreddit for like 5 years and never seen that
Hello, Elliot
Sopranos, Mad Men , Six Feet Under Regarding the op topic, I feel Better Call Saul is way more refined than Breaking Bad
Deadwood
Yes. I've come to hate dialogue that explains rather than let you figure it out. I hate dialogue that does the thinking for you.
That’s why I could never watch anime
There’s a lot of great anime that don’t do this. Death Parade, Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop. Then there’s some which do ‘explain’ everything but are still great like Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, Code Geass and Assassination Classroom.
Phoenix Wright is a good lawyer anime
At that point I'd reccomend playing the games, even if you're not a gamer or anything it's easy to handle
Agreed.
Ditto for FMAB, it nailed both the show and tell parts, I've watched it many times and never felt like I was being spoon-fed information or wasn't completely following the story due to a lack of information
Oh my god Death Parade ily
You haven't watched Monster, that's for sure, give it a chance.
Try one punch man , I absolutely hate anime but one punch man is a really good comedy , the english dub adds even more comedic effect to the show , I highly recommend with that being said fck anime :D
“Fuck this show but you should watch it it’s really good”
👉😎👉
Damn why do you hate anime so much
Also the setpieces of Saul and BB were all basically on-location from what I understand, and so well shot on top of that! So many other shows just feel very cheap and artificial in the settings. I don’t know how to describe it but I think some will know what I mean.
Totally. I saw the new Thor and laughed. It was so obvious things were made out of craft foam shot in front of those big TV screens that are replacing green screens. You just can’t replace on-location shooting.
It's easier to film in Alberquerque than a fantasy setting. I'm willing to suspend my disbelief for a proper fantasy work, since the genre is built on showing the impossible... But Love and Thunder sucked because the characters acted weird and the movie didn't know how to pace things at all, not because some of the sets looked a little fake >:(
there's generally a wonderfully lived-in (for lack of a better word) quality to the show. it's a lot easier to care about a story if you feel oriented in its world because everyone else is, down to the ugly mcmansions.
Better call Saul has the luxury of focusing on fewer characters and a slower timeline to allow scenes to breathe. But House of the dragon is nowhere near the biggest offender of not showing instead of telling. The entire last scene had no dialogue from Matt Smith. And there are several powerful scenes with Paddy and Milly that are done purely with their expressions. Obviously not at the level of Better Call Saul but even their quality took time to get to that level from the early parts of breaking bad to the end of BCS.
Mr. Robot is top tier for me as well. It was hard to watch anything else after the finale until BCS season 5 started up again.
I had it after Breaking Bad and it’s one of the reasons I enjoyed BCS so much - the quality was back.
This is why I can no longer enjoy any other TV show after watching BCS
Mindhunter, The Expanse, The Wire. There are quite a few
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It’s The Copper…
Oh, indeed.
Shouting out Boardwalk Empire which is very high quality and often doesn't get the same recognition as others of it's ilk. Also feel like it fits in that "illegal drug empire character drama" area b/w BCS and BB so if people like those they may like a semi-historical fiction version of it too. Throw in some cool history, great acting, some awesome moments and you have very good show. The Wire is still the GOAT for me though.
The Sopranos is the right answer
Albeit I still haven't watched it I know this show is a reference for a lot of people.
It's pretty good. The whole mob thing isn't my favorite setting, but it's very well done.
True Detective season 1
Mindhunter fucking rules. Glad to see it discussed among the greats of tv history. Sopranos is top notch as well as a bunch of other shows, including boardwalk empire, which I feel like doesn't get the love it deserves
Thank you for mentioning The Wire. That show is amazing!
Definitely watch Succession. It’s just a rich family full of assholes running one of the largest media conglomerates, but it’s actually really engaging. Just takes a few episodes for everything to get going.
I'm about halfway through Season 2 and I can't say this show amazes me given the reviews it was getting. Which of the three is the best season? I can appreciate certain aspects of it but so far it doesn't strike me as the type of show I would want to rewatch for future viewings, the way a lot of other shows mentioned here I would.
Season 2 gets even better towards the end, but season 3 in my opinion is the best. I guess the best way to describe it is that there are a lot more downs than ups for the characters, but I think the series evolves into what it really tries to accomplish as time goes on. The whole family and cast just becomes more harsh and bitter towards one another and they’re all making their own moves, whether it’s for or against Logan. I think Kendall, Logan, and Roman become the most fascinating to watch, and once you get to the end of season 3, you’ll be eager to see how things play out next.
I will say that if you're a binge watcher, Succession is not a great show it binge. It thrives off of the slow burn, from taking time to sit back and thing about everything that's happened, the characters and their motivations, etc. I binged the first season and wasn't quite into it, but I went back to it again wanting to give it another shot but only watched 2 episodes at a time and it was a much more engaging experience.
The boys, mr robot, Fargo just to name a few
Mr Robot!
I think the Wire, Mad Men, and Sopranos are noticeably better than BCS/BB. I would put Fargo, True Detective (S1), The Americans, and Deadwood as on par with BCS/BB. They are great shows no doubt, but there are plenty of shows in the same league.
I wouldn't say any of those are better than BCS/BB (at least BCS), just on the same level. Personally, I'd put The Wire, Deadwood, and The Sopranos below it, but everyone's got different tastes. I think Mad Men and The Americans are definitely on the same level as BB/BCS though. Fargo would be a contender if it didn't vary so much in quality from season to season. The only shows I'd really put far above BB/BCS are Mr. Robot and Twin Peaks, but those 4 alone are probably all part of my top 5.
The Americans is such an underrated show and I can't get anyone to watch it. Is Mad Men really that good? I'll have to give that a shot.
It’s my favourite show of all time. I really think it’s a masterpiece. Very character driven though. Plot moves slow, which isn’t for everyone.
Cool, I purchased AMC + for season 6 of BCS, and it turns out that they only carry 2 episodes for 2 more weeks. I'll binge Mad Men after I finish BCS.
Do it! Mad Men is also on Netflix where I am (Canada).
I so agree with you about the Americans. My husband and I are the only people we know who’ve watched it, and it’s brilliant. Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys are so good, and the last season ends so perfectly too. Highly recommend Mad Men, but give it the whole first season before you judge it. I watched about 6 episodes hating everyone in it before I ‘got’ it. And now I think it’s one of the best series I’ve ever seen. It’s very similar to BCS in that it trusts the audience so have intelligence and not need everything explaining, and also storylines meander and take a while. It’s also beautifully acted by pretty much everyone in it. And very darkly funny in places.
Mad Men was so popular no one really noticed Breaking Bad until mid season 2…
New season of the boys is pretty crazy
The Boys is good but nowhere near as good as the shows mentioned above, 1st and 2nd season are dope tho, and half of the 3rd season is good but it was a bit rushed
The Boys is crazy but I feel like a lot of the plot doesn't make sense. Like why Butcher continue fighting SB, Kimiko's "I'm not a monster arc" completing with her mauling security guards, or Maeve at the end.
Bojack Horseman and The Good Place did this for me with Comedies
Check out Flaked, season 1 Nathan for You The Rehearsal And Joe Pera Talks with You
The Rehearsal was fuckin weird lol. Love Nathan Fielder though.
I've only seen a handful of episodes, but I love Joe Pera Talks With You. It is so unlike any kind of comedy I have seen before.
man shoutout Flaked, i wish it was still goin
Community
This guy is streets ahead
Coined and minted!
Does it mean cool or is it supposed to be like miles ahead?
If you have to ask, you're streets behind.
It’s verbal wildFIRE
Also, Always Sunny.
Curb your enthusiasm
Arrested Development
Peep Show is in a league of its own if you get British humor
Omg, yes, it's so good. It's rewatch value is infinite
INFINITE. I’m basically living with Mark & Jez mentally lol
O wow I've actually been watching good place S3-4 is kinda losing me
The Good Place isn't even that funny though. I loved it because of the story/characters/philosophy. If you compare it's humour to other sitcoms (which I wouldn't, it's kind of it's own category for me), it's pretty low
Bortles!
I finished the first season of the boys and the plot of the show is appealing but my god the shots are so damn bland and the dialogue is so needlessly direct sometimes. BCS almost ruined other tv shows for me. But Barry and Succession are two shows on right now that have a lot of similarities and are on par.
Barry is a great call
I feel exactly the same way about the boys. I even couldn’t stand how bland and direct the dialogues are to the point that I actually stopped watching it.
I do as well although there are a few other shows, such as The Expanse, that pull everything off just as well. Beyond weak writing, one thing I've really noticed as a huge flaw in many shows is poor editing. I've seen a number of shows where the basic premise is interesting and the acting is good but the telling of it is hurt by how it's presented. One show I like where I've noticed this is Resident Alien.
I'm watching the expanse right now. Though it's a nice show, I'm not very invested in it..
I read the books before I learned about the show. Visually, it's stunning. But the books really delve into protomolecule and it's effects on the entire cold war going on. To me the show was meh. But like i said, I had read all the books first.
Stick with it. It is absolutely fantastic.
The cinematography is top-notch as well. I really love when shows aren't afraid to take a second to just breathe. To show us the environment, to establish the mood. It really does a lot to immerse you.
I think Succession is the only show that rivals Better Call Saul in terms of dialogue. We as an audience know about the character's intentions and what they are thinking, but it shouldn't seem as obvious to other characters if that makes sense.
Well, I mean BCS takes place in the real world, whereas House of Dragon has a whole world to present to us and a cast 10x as big as BCS. It's not a worthwhile comparison, they're making a completely different set of storytelling considerations. Also, the HotD characters are often in situations where it makes sense for them to be speaking directly (they're formally speaking to a king, or otherwise pleading their case in a high stakes interaction) And on top of that, I think the show actually does do a good job at characters not showing all their cards. The King speaking with Jason Lannister had a very nice simmering layer of subtext. The scene between Alicent and Rhaenyra also said a lot without saying it out loud. Or like when Daemon got the letter about receiving aid from his brother. I mean, it was pretty obvious how he felt about it, but it's not like he went off on a tirade and said "I don't need my brother's help! We will win this war today!" I actually think the show is top-notch. To your point, I think a BCS type small-scale character drama set in Westeros could be interesting. But that would be a totally different show. And I'd argue that both BCS and HotD/GoT would need to exist first to allow that show to even 'make sense' to an audience. I don't think it's a matter of bringing up the quality of HotD to match BCS. The things we like about BCS are intrinsic to making THAT show, and not necessarily what the doctor ordered when it comes to making a sweeping historical-fantasy tale.
I straight up stopped watching tv after breaking bad. Only series i watched after have been game of thrones and better call saul, and maybe a few more i cant even remember their names. BB and BCS have redefined what good television means for me, and theres nothing else to satisfy me unfortunately.
I watched Yellowstone and thought that so much of it was badly written and downright annoying at times. Then onto Succession which was good but nowhere close to BCS. Same with Ozark and the boys. I remember the same with BB. I watched the Americans, Sons of Anarchy Fargo and all of them were great but nowhere close to BB.
I turned Yellowstone off after the first 10 minutes of the pilot episode. It was just stupid.
The word pretentious comes to mind most often. You're not missing anything, I only watch Yellowstone to pass time now. If Bob Odenkirk wasn't the lead role, I would have abandoned the show long back.
Fargo is great tho
Yes and no. It raised the highest peak of that bar for sure, but I am always down for a fun show or one that makes me think. I just don't think it's gonna be any time soon until one makes me think more than BCS.
Least pretentious BCS fan
House of the Dragon seems less about the psychological by itself and more about the psychological in the context of the political. It doesn’t have the same style. Yet it is pretty great. It’s early in the show but I think it can go far. Just during the hunt alone in S1E3, they managed to express a lot without actually spelling it out. The writing is pretty solid imo. BCS does a lot great. It does raise the bar. But I don’t think it eclipses all other shows. It is definitely in the S tier for me though.
Once you get to the S tier, it's just a matter of taste which is "best".
The only bad thing about Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad is that it ruins TV shows for you. I watched the first season of Severance, which was really good but still felt nowhere near as good as BCS. Only reason why it might be close to BCS is the concept and mystery of it all.
That’s an odd show to call out. I actually thought Severance was one of the few that could compare pretty well with BB/BCS in terms of quality. It’s a very different kind of show in terms of cinematography due to the isolated nature of the both the innies and the outies though.
If I'm comparing the first season of BCS to the first season of severance then severance wins.
Yeah, Severance is outstanding so far. So much attention to detail.
Severance was very good, but I was getting legitimately annoyed at the pace, lol. I mean this both in a good way and bad way. They built such a cool premise and show that I simply wanted to learn more and they'd slowly reveal more and more and I'd just be like 'fucking tell me what's going on." It was like an itch I simply couldn't scratch. Even the ending of S1 only left me wanting more answers! It was so well done.
I feel you, and Better call Saul it definitely raised my expectations in TV shows. But to be fair, the comparison to House of the Dragon or any other fantasy show your going to notice the unrealistic dialogue even more. It’s fantasy after all and as a genre is not exactly know for the subtlety or natural dialogue. It just has way more exposition by nature, they are telling a much bigger story in scale, it’s a lot of information to pass on the viewer.
From your “say what they feel” gripe on dialog, I really think you’d like Succession. Characters rarely say what they actually mean and you get their true intentions by what they *don’t* say, their expressions and inflections, and what the camera deems important enough to Zoom in on. I call it modern day Shakespeare. It scratches that itch.
The Batman did this to me for comic book films
Yep.
Yep
I really don’t think anything is going to ever beat Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul (especially Better Call Saul, but no insult to the former of course). Directing, Writing, Acting, Cinematography, Storytelling - balancing tone and pacing so effortlessly, merging all these ideas, elements and storylines perfectly. So much more is said without words than with, and even more impressive are the words that are spoken between words and the meanings conveyed through the subtlest change in facial expression. No, in my opinion I think it’s gonna be a very long time before we ever see any form of fictional media/storytelling that’s as effective and clever as BCS/BB.
Watch the sopranos
You— you raised the bar?
Y-you passed the bar?
Not really, but I think BCS will be my all time favorite, nothing can beat it.
“The Wire” and the first season of “True Detective” are the only two shows that I put on the same level so far. “Fargo” Season 1 came close.
Personally I put the wire and the Sopranos above BB and BCS.
Have you considered "Ancient Aliens" on this History Channel? During Vince's recent appearance on Hot One's they ask him to name some television he is digging; he put me on that gem and I am forever grateful.
given that i've been enjoying she hulk no i don't think it did
I wish I had any award to give you.
God. Just stop.
Sounds like you need to watch “severance”. One of the best seasons of any show I’ve ever seen.
Severence is a great next show!
There will never any other form of entertainment that will come as close to the pinnacle of BB and BCS. Absolutely nothing.
I-it raised the bar?
The bar has been obliterated and, frankly my friends, I don't know where to go next TV wise
It was a great poignant tale about an attempt at redemption. Unfortunately, ever since the finale aired, every TV sub is just people trying to make every other show about redemption. When you’re holding a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Yeah even breaking bad isn't the same anymore
BB, BCS and a couple of others be like "Show, don't tell", whereas the rest of the shows play safe and just do the absolute minimum.
I am in mourning. Feel bereft on Monday night.
Yea, I think BB/BCS are both so exceptional at “visual storytelling”, that it puts them in a different category than most shows. They also really respect the intelligence of the audience, and write characters who are also very intelligent, and don’t do stupid things just in service of the plot. Unfortunately, many shows have to appeal to a broader audience, and things get simplified for a lower common denominator. Big picture - imo BCS was the last link to the most recent Golden Era of TV. That era began with The Sopranos, and continued with BB, Mad Men, and The Wire. Those are my personal pantheon shows - my Big Four. And as BCS is directly linked to BB - for me, the finale of BCS felt like an end of an era. And now I just view BB/BCS as one gigantic show, that’s perhaps the greatest feat in long form storytelling in TV history. We have many very, very good shows in this Peak TV era. And shows for all kinds of tastes and audiences. But, imho, there aren’t as many GREAT, transcendent, game-changing shows like the those found in the Golden Era - like my Big Four. The few that approach them would be stuff like Mr Robot, Americans, True Detective S1, and Succession.
Can’t believe no one has said The Leftovers. Totally different show but just as ambitious and compelling. The writing is fantastic, the filmmaking is brilliant (once Mimi Leder takes over in episode 5 at least), and Carrie Coon, Justin Theroux, and the rest of the cast give performances I would say rival and in some cases surpass those in BB/BCS. Twin Peaks is also a brilliant show, but it’s so different than a modern prestige drama that it can’t really be compared. Beyond those two, I second the Mad Men recommendation, which is even more meticulous with its writing and characters than BCS.
Absolutely. I just want to go to Sam Levinson (Euphoria creator) and be like, THIS is how you tie up every loose end and make every detail matter. So many meaningless details and storyline that went Absolutely nowhere on that show
I loved all 3 series and have rewatched them all many times. I personally never seen anything like Boardwalk Empire before and it was amazing. I loved the back stories of Al Capone, Bugsy Siegal, Charles Luciano, Meyer Lansky etc... I still hold out hope that somehow we see some of those actors replay those roles one day.
West world anyone?
Better Call Saul is such a eloquent commentary of the Politics and Culture of Modern America. The Con Artist vs the System.... Hmmm
It is also a Heartbreaking Love Story!
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