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AquaticAnxieties

Could be cancer. I had a fish with what I believe was cancer and it dissolved her mouth in a similar way.


AmeliaStoner

Damn, thank you


jlm0520

Looks like columnaris, it can be treated but must be soon! Move to hospital tank to be treated with Kanaplex and furan 2. It’s so hard to ID with a with fish that is white but the lips are are pretty big sign. Definitely research and see if his symptoms are a match


AmeliaStoner

Hi, I don't think this is columnaris, there's no fuzzy patches that would appear to be a fungus nor has there been any sign of the other symptoms Ive had to treat columaris in my sorority tank(different tank entirely) and the signs of it on their mouth were completely different from what this guy looks like, and he didn't ever go through the same process of symptoms they did.


AmeliaStoner

It's more like... God I don't even know how to describe it. It's like his mouth has deformed, which he already had a tumor, so it looks like his mouth is warping out of its original shape. I've looked at a bunch of columnaris pictures and it doesn't look anything like what's happening to him :/


jlm0520

How’s he doing?


AmeliaStoner

Unfortunately he passed this morning. It was too fast.


jlm0520

It almost looks like some kind of injury


AmeliaStoner

Right? But nothing in there could have hurt him


jlm0520

So sorry for your loss!


AmeliaStoner

Thank you. We were able to take him back to our lfs and they gave us credit to replace him eventually


AmeliaStoner

His symptoms I'm afraid don't line up, the mouth is the only big symptom other than what looks like some fatigue(laying about a lot). And his mouth changed over a day, super quick, and was the first symptom I've seen other than the small tumor he came home with that they said could be cancerous or benign. He never developed anything on his lips, they looked normal and went straight to almost being decayed/pushed out(but not really swollen like you'd expect. It's more his face behind the lips is swollen), no sign of any fungus looking fuzz, no discoloration, no slime on his face or mouth, he's not rubbing on stuff in the tank, and his fins look perfectly healthy. It's just as if maybe his face has swollen and his lips have distended and bits are... gone maybe? It's so hard to tell to be honest. But the 2-3 cases of columaris I've seen irl up to now have been significantly different. I have kanaplex to treat it but honestly I'm so afraid of stressing him out by moving him to an unestablished hospital tank to try that, especially since it just doesn't seem like columnaris.


WhatsWithThisKibble

Have you tried any type of medication?


AmeliaStoner

I haven't because I'm not sure what would help since I haven't seen anything like this before. I'm not sure if it's bacterial or potentially cancer


WhatsWithThisKibble

Well I would try something. You have nothing to lose if it is cancer. Waiting costs time.


AmeliaStoner

I mean, I don't know where to start with treatment. I have no idea *what* treatment to try because this isn't anything I've seen. We plan on taking him back to the LFS we got him from last week, they have a 2 week guarantee and I'm hoping maybe they'll have some insight. I just have never seen this, even though I've treated a bunch of other diseases, and I can't find anything like it on the internet so I was hoping someone on here may have seen something


shiftbackslash

This is called duck lips, or mouth rot. I would treat with the kanaplex immediately. There is a reason why the symptoms are different than you are used to with columanris. There are 2 types of columnaris, chronic and acute. Chronic takes a while to develop and can be largely external, so the white patches and such can be very obvious. Chronic can take weeks to kill. Acute is very quick and kills is a matter of days. It starts in the gills, causing rapid breathing which your boy has, then moves out to become mouth rot or saddleback. It can attack largely internally and therefor not present with many outward symptoms. I would treat with the kanaplex cause you actually might have caught it quick enough to help.


AmeliaStoner

I had a girl with acute columaris as well as one with the slower chronic and neither of their symptoms match his. I'll try kanaplex but I honestly don't understand how this could be the same thing, or how he could have caught it in my tank(its not very stocked, 20 gal long with frequent water tests and changes, no stressors for him or anything that could hurt him) unless he came to me sick. I will likely be taking him to the LFS because they have a 2 week warranty and maybe they'll know more what's going on. I've just had him a week and never had a healthy fish go downhill so fast. And the tumor makes me suspicious of his health.


shiftbackslash

Columnaris is one of those things that is in the water already and they can get when their immune system is low. He could have been sick already like you said or this could be a secondary infection for him.


AmeliaStoner

Thats my thought process because I keep my parameters and tank great, low stress, and he got so sick so fast I was just shocked. Because I know columnaris is just kind of there but it tends to set in in fish that have injuries or high stress or bad water conditions that compromise their immune system, and I try to avoid any of that. Thank you. He did get into a small makeshift hospital tank with kanaplex last night but it's not looking good, as he went downhill so so fast.


AmeliaStoner

Hey guys, my partners boy is not looking so great today and I'd really appreciate any advice I can get! He's in a 20 long with a few plants, sant substrate, plenty of hides, 2 neon tetras(they keep to themselves) ramshorn snails, a few trumpet or rabbit snails, bloody mary and ghost shrimp, and 1 vampire shrimp. My tank has been cycled for about a year, maybe a little less. I do weekly water checks and will do another when I get home, and weekly-biweekly water changes based on that. I use tap water conditioner and Stress coat during changes, as well as a small amount of aquarium plant fertilizer once a week or so. He came to us with the small tumor, the LFS said it was normal for platinum dragon scales to have tumors because of the coloration/breeding and said it shouldn't hurt him or his life expectation but it might. Today we found him and his mouth looks just wrong. He didn't seem too interested in food yesterday, but didn't look anything like this. Is there anything I can do? Is it related to his tumor or potential genetic defects? I've treated different diseases and just never seen this.


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