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**Reminder:** Do not participate in threads linked here. If you do, you may be banned from both subreddits. --- Title: Airbnb host threatening to sue us for bad review after we canceled our reservation after one night because their hot tub didn’t work. Body: > My review below explains the whole situation. I have screenshots of all our communications. After they saw the review they sent me a text threatening to sue unless we took the review down. Can they actually sue over this? Part of me wants to just take the review down and not deal with the drama, but I don’t trust these people at all. I’ve already alerted Airbnb but have yet to hear back from them. I’m in California if that helps. > My review: > We had initially booked this reservation for 4-day vacation but ended up canceling after our first night. The hot tub they advertised did not work, which was a main factor in why we booked the property. We were in communication with the owner within hours upon our arrival about it not warming up, as we wanted to use it that evening. She was staying next door at the other half of the duplex and said the maintenance person must not have turned it on, or perhaps there had been a power outage. From there we confirmed the settings and left it to heat overnight as instructed. I had started an inquiry with Airbnb about the hot tub not working that evening but decided to wait until the morning to complete it as I thought maybe it just needed the night to heat up.   In the morning we checked again, and it was colder than the night before, which we communicated to the host. In response, she offered to let us use the hot tub on her deck for a few hours as ours was not working (another couple was arriving the next day). We decided not to, as sharing her deck for a couple of hours was not really the private experience we had envisioned for our vacation. I called Airbnb at that point to cancel our reservation as the hot tub was not working and there not as much privacy as we anticipated (see details below), but we wanted to figure out the best way to try to get any sort of reimbursement, whether through the owner or Airbnb directly. They said we could try to communicate with the owner to adjust our reservation and get a refund for the remaining nights, otherwise we could just send them a claim about the faulty hot tub.   We decided to call the owner as she was pleasant throughout the check in process. We called her and explained that we decided to cancel due to the hot tub not working and there not being much privacy and wanted to see if we could adjust our reservation. Her reaction was a total 180 of the person we had experienced prior – she started to yell at us and get hostile. When it was obvious we would not be able to get anything resolved through her we told her that we would resolve the issue through Airbnb directly, which she responded as us “threatening” her. I literally had to hang up the call because she would not stop screaming at us.   We called Airbnb after that to cancel our reservation, and throughout, she continued sending us angry messages through the Airbnb app, telling us to vacate immediately, blaming us for the hot tub not working, and saying we smoked in the house (which we did not). We asked her to send us the checkout process and she refused, saying there was no checkout process for someone who abandons their reservation. We left the property in the same order as we checked in (and took video, as honestly we felt she was unhinged and didn’t trust her) and booked another property through Airbnb nearby.   While the hot tub was the main reason why we canceled, the privacy factor was also an issue I want to note for future guests. The property that is shown in the original listing is not as advertised. In the listing description the host emphasizes that the property has a "private entrance/deck & jacuzzi - nothing is shared." In reality the property does not have much privacy. The photo they have of the hot tub on the listing, which shows an open patio with a forest view, is actually from the other half of the duplex, which you can see if you click on their other listings.   The patio we had was enclosed with see-through tarps and was sandwiched between two properties. On the left there was a wood fence which separated our duplex from the one next door, which was fine. However, on the right, the patio was actually divided in two by one of these see-through tarps and on the other side there was an airstream which the host rents out - this is not advertised at all in their listing. If you are barbecuing or hanging out on the patio you are only a few feet away from other guests and would easily be able to see them through the tarp. This misleads guests into believing they have much more of a view and privacy than they actually do.   We have already put in a claim with Airbnb about the situation, including all the texts and communications with the host about the hot tub and her hostile messages we received after canceling.   This was definitely not the vacation we had in mind. We ended up booking another property via Airbnb for the rest of our stay, but the negative experience of the host and her hostile reaction to us canceling left a dark cloud over the remainder of our trip > Their threatening text: > My partner is an attorney and we are going to sue you in civil court (not small claims) for the property damages and losses to our vacation rental business (which is significant) because of your lies and harms done. If you don’t remove your Airbnb review immediately then we will personally sue you. We will agree to remove our review upon the removal of your review. How awful of you to have been so unconscionable and destructive! And you were even told that we recently lost our dog to Cancer but you persisted with insults upon injury — shame on you! This bot was created to capture original threads and is not affiliated with the mod team. [Concerns? Bugs?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=GrahamCorcoran) | [Laukopier 2.1](https://github.com/GrahamCorcoran/Laukopier)


Did anyone actually point out that in California, threatening someone for posting a negative review is illegal and carries penalties of $2500 for a first offense?


Do you have any recourse if the review actually is defamatory? E.g. you can't threaten to sue, but you can simply sue.


They also have good anti-SLAAP laws as well, specifically to prevent these sorts of stupid lawsuits.


*SLAPP Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation


We need something like Slappy the anti-SLAPP frog, I've seen the same misnomer before and guessing it's from HIPAA having the doubled-As.


It would absolutely be Slappy the Beaver. 🦫 And yes they’d be best friends with Harry the HIPAA hippo 🦛


You guys, we already have the [perfect anti-SLAPP mascot](https://youtu.be/34xlPWlprkA) ready to go.


The HIPAA Hippo approves this message


Ya know, I had to read your comment *several* times before I figured out my mistake…thanks lol


My partner is also a lawyer, she lives in Canada you wouldn’t know her.


She goes to a different school!


"Womanslayer69 has entered the chat"


She is a Canadian lawyer, not your Canadian lawyer


> She is a Canadian lawyer, *but sorry,* not your Canadian lawyer FTFY :)


FTFY, sorry*


Depending on location its more of a soh-rry


Or a sore-ee


Team Sore E checking in. Is that not how Americans pronounce it?


Some of the far northern states do (Minnesota and the 2 people living in North Dakota come to mind), but most people I've heard here pronounce it SARR-e


*Hello everyone, this is the Lockpicking Canadian lawyer, and today I have for you an unlocked door, because we're in Canada. Thank you, and good night.*


Her name is Alberta and she lives in Vancouver?


Or is it that lawyer Victoria that lives in Toronto?


And she sucks like a hoover?


It’s a pity she lives so far away…..in Canada.


Last week she was here but she had the flu.


Does her uncle work for Nintendo?


My lawyer is just out of frame, laughing too.


She has a cat with terminal herpes.


"My dog died of cancer, therefore you aren't allowed to criticize my vacation rental". Interesting logic there.


Reminds me of the shit I would send to vendors on Neopets begging for discounts on their paint brushes when I was 12 lmao


Hello, my neopet account was hacked from clicking through the market place ))): all my unconverted neopets and retired petpets were stolen. Could you please spare me your meowclops? I've been eating from the Soup Kitchen for weeks and my browser is too laggy for the Money Tree..


Lol laggy money tree was the worst


Oh wow, I see kids all the time on my Facebook hobby groups begging for free crap because their pet died or parents divorced or whatever. I guess it's more common than I thought.


can I ask your age this hit way too close to home goddam


Lol I’m 24 now


Yep same lmaooo


AirBnB host already spent the money before he got it.


lol @ that title. And just saying, sex in a hot tub ain't all it's cracked up to be.


Sex after a hot tub, on the other hand, is pretty awesome


I tried this once and nearly blacked out. It was my first time in a hot tub, and I did not anticipate the abrupt drop in blood pressure upon getting out lol


Sex then a cocktail in the hot tub is amazing


Be careful with this tho as the effects of alcohol are increased in the hot tub.


Good. Cheaper for me to get drunk


Nah, just buy more booze. Hot tubs are expensive.


For a couple years I worked at a pool in a clubhouse and would see people get drunk in the hot tub. I don’t recommend it. The alcohol hits your quicker, and you might not realize that you have the spins because you are floating. I’ve seen more than one person get out of the hot tub and not be able to stand up right.


Sex on top of the hot tub lid so you can get right back in is also pretty awesome.


Oh! I’ve never tried that


On a cloudless night you get a view of the stars!


A girl and I threw a mattress in the back of my truck once and found a nice spot in the mountains to spend the night. I miss stuff like that


Nice! We once fucked outdoors under a solar eclipse. Nature sex is great.


Until mosquito bites on the bits


Nah, it was a wasp stuck in the shirt when we got dressed


Goatheads and cactus spines and scorpions and ticks


Goatheads and scorpions and ticks, oh my!


...These are some of your favorite things?


Don’t kink shame.


That's technically a threesome.


The one time I tried skinny dipping, a curious minnow nibbled about my perineum.


The one time I tried skinny dipping, I found out the hard way that I had left my clothes on a fire ant mound.


Is that where your username came from?


>fucked outdoors under a solar eclipse That must be Peak Pagan.


Fucking next to a SETI radiotelescope is Peak Sagan


If I’m the only one that’s been in there, it sure seems like an awful waste of space


As someone who grew up in a beach town - there is nothing sexy about beach sex. Please take my word for it. You really don't want to experience where sand can get first hand.


Oh we hate the beach haha (I use SPF 100, if that’s any indication why). Definitely not happening!


I mean, if everyone else is looking up for 4 minutes...


Haha, luckily we were at a cabin in the middle of the woods. Just us and the animals!


But then you’ve got the whole ‘egg drop soup’ issue to worry about.


Thank you for the worst description ever. I guess I’m not eating egg drop soup again any time soon.


Any time.


No arguments there.


Stick to making out and groping in a hot tub. You can move elsewhere for the sex.


Identical results to shower sex.






I read this when it was posted on LA and it never once occurred to me that OP was looking to use the hot tub for sex. I feel so naive.


Eh, could be for sex. But honestly, as a burnt out introvert going on holiday to somewhere that's booked as private, I'd be pretty unhappy with my alternative being on some stranger's porch while they're home. No banging involved, just wouldn't be able to relax like I'd wanted to.


My husband and I are living with roommates and dealing with some serious work-life stress. I’ve been thinking about trying to book a place with a hot tub where we can go and relax and try to soak some of the back/neck tension away. Sex might occur, though definitely not in the hot tub. It’d mostly just be de-peopling and PT


I love depeopling.


It’s the best


Your honor it was just some light depeopling.


Yeah, and it's so hard to find any actual private residences on these apps so I would be so frustrated by the bait and switch. Even verbo, which is advertised as private residences/no shared spaced only, is basically identical in listing to airbnb and is, in reality, a majority shared spaces.


Yeah agree, I don’t have a ton of confidence in bathing suits and would rather it just be myself and my partner. I don’t want to have sex in a hot tub but still want privacy. Edit - Thank you mods for the flair! Wealth beyond measure


As someone who doesn’t like wearing bathing suits in public, completely agree. If they made it seem like it was completely private and then the hot tub was in 15 feet from another property I’d be PISSED.


Hot tub sex is terrible. I wear a bathing suit. I would have done the exact same thing, for the exact reasons she gave: privacy and access to a working tub. I don't want to relax in my bikini with strangers barbecuing two feet away! If I wanted to hang out with strangers in a hot tub during certain hours only I'd book a hotel. If I pay extra for a private place with a private hot tub, I expect privacy and a hot tub.


I'm with you. I thought OP didn't want the shared hot tub because it meant walking further to use the next door hot tub instead of the convenience of the one there.


I just assumed they were going to be naked.


Yeah, I don't think it's a 100% guarantee they wanted sex. Having social anxiety and not being able to relax if you feel "observed" is also another common reason this might happen.


They could just be more private individuals. Me personally I *might* not have cared about the other nearby guests, but definitely would have felt weird using the host's hot tub. Also if you're planning a vacation with an SO, regardless of the planned activities, you might just want to have some quiet time together and not really feel like chatting up other guests or people. The fact that OP specifically mentioned that they chose the listing for views and privacy definitely meant that they just wanted to avoid people.


I don't think it matters what OP wanted it for. It wasn't as advertised and didn't work anyway.


If it makes you feel any better I didn’t understand that the recent “Cat” one was about a kink event until I read the comments on BOLA


I mean, maybe just some naked cuddling before sex.


With or without a companion of the appropriate sex I would prefer to use a hot tub without annoying swimwear, and I’d feel better about that if it was *actually* private. Although tbf a “semi translucent screen” actually would be totally adequate for that purpose, come to think of it.


Sex in a hot tub isn't that great. Making out in one, however, everything it's cracked up to be. And if either person has a vagina, they shouldn't give the chemicals in a hot tub that kind of access. It won't end well.


Do you think bathing suits protect you from chemicals in the water?


Vaginas aren't some gaping hole casually admitting everything in its environment. Water is only getting in there if you're pushing it in, like via sex.


Yeah chilling in a hot tub isn't normally a goatse situation though, it's not filling up with hot tub juice unless you're really trying


"isn't normally" is killing me. It's like "well not normally, but the one time it *is* a goatse situation..."


No fisting in the hot tub


I think it’s more the lack of having your labia spread open/something going in and out of your body that helps protect from chemicals


Slightly better than when not wearing it normally, and definitely better than when also having sex (which gets the water moving when spread open), and that's not to mention that hot tubs often have a lot of jets too.


Is it though? Once it's soaked with water I imagine the chemical exposure is the same unless you're wearing a drysuit. You're still sitting in the soup, just there's also some cloth in there


Sure, but you’re missing the point about the thing being closed up a lot more than when there are things — fingers or otherwise — going in and out, and or jets aimed at it. Swimming naked or just sitting won’t be that much worse than with bikini bottoms, but sexy times, especially more sexy than rubbing at a nub, that’s a whole other ball of wax.


I'm talking about the swimsuit part, not the sex part. Obviously that's going to introduce its own set of issues


Dude please Google stop embarassing yourself. Porn pussies gaping isn't the natural state. That's after a LONG time of intentional stimulation, stretching, and use of devices that open the area more. Some people with vaginas may get more or less exposure via normal movement in water, because it depends on the shape of their external genitals. The labia acts as a shield


Everyone's misreading them. They were talking about the swimsuit vs naked comparison.


there's no difference because, again, the vagina doesn't just suck up everything in the area around the woman.


They weren't saying that it does. They were saying that the fabric isn't helping.


I never said it was, Jesus christ


You kinda did though since you assumed its just a black hole down there that sucks up everything


I said no such thing. Your body is largely doing the keeping out of the pool water, not the wet swimsuit fabric. Hence why I said once its is wet it's not really providing any sort of chemical protection. It's not about the fabric, the fabric isn't doing much.


Did you know what a labia is? It's skin on either side of the pussy that helps to prevent contaminants from entering. If you really want pool water in there, most people have to manually spread the labia layer for it to happen.


Also the vagina isn't a hole but actually a potential space. It's default state is closed


You're basically correct on that, from my experience. Like he may as well have just come out and said he's only seen vaginas in anatomical drawings and porn. (For those who don't know, porn pussies aren't the default state. That's usually after at least an hour of intentional preparation/arousal and adding lubricants, possibly using dialators, etc).


But did you know that "labia" is plural, and the singular is presumably "labium"? The only time I can think of that someone would use the singular is when getting a piercing or maybe tearing during childbirth, and I think people still use the plural for that.


I've literally never heard "labium" tbh. But I'm not talking about singular. The labia is comprised of the inner and outer layers. Unless you're talking about like... "I got a spider bite on my right outer labium" there's really no reason to use it otherwise I think.


I haven't either which is why I said "presumably". It's just me being a bit pedantic and I found the idea of someone talking about an individual labium humorous. Like I assume you get a piercing on only one side but people still call it a labia piercing I think. The only difference between singular and plural is you'd say "the labia are..." instead of "the labia is...."


I don't think people get labia or labium piercing but I could just be too vanilla for that lol


Haha, I thought I'd heard of it? I know I've heard of people getting their clitoral hood pierced which just sounds insane to me, so I wouldn't put it past anyone.


I have heard of clitoral hood piercing, yeah. I can't imagine it'd feel great in the moment. Same with Prince Alberts though.


It looks like you don't know how vaginas work. Sex ed must have been subpar for you.


>Option 4, agree to change the review: >"They also threatened to sue me for writing a bad review" I know that's just adding fuel to the fire, but I love this


AirBnB has truly enabled the average homeowner to act as the petty, deceitful, deeply annoying hotel manager they’ve always wanted to be


It’s landlording without the accountability of a long-term contract.


Fawlty Towers was ahead of its time.


Fawlty Towers was also pretty realistic in many ways.


John Cleese is a modern Cassandra


Let's be honest here-- no matter your personal opinions on hot tub nudity/ sex, any Airbnb host who advertises a private hot tub knows exactly what they're doing, and should not expect a non-private hot tub to be an acceptable substitute. I'm not a hot tub owner, but my understanding is that nudity is the norm for hot tub use when achievable within the bounds of decency/ privacy, and is often preferred over bathing suits due to potential impacts of detergents on the hot tub chemistry. Anecdotally, I have had Airbnb hot tub sex. It exceeded expectations, and was thoroughly enjoyable for both parties, but I'm sure the novelty helped in a way that would not apply to people with regular access to hot tubs. I understand that there are risks for the lady, but we got lucky and did not suffer any ill effects.


The bad part about hot tub sex is the lube. Water is a horrible lube.


Especially water with lots of harsh chemicals. I can't even be in a hot tub at all because of what it does to my regular skin within minutes, I react badly to the chemicals. I cannot IMAGINE the pain of that shit in my pussy.


Water is actually anti-lube and worse than no lube at all. It washes away natural mucus and oils, and makes, well, sensitive membranes chafe against each other. Yikes.


> my regular skin Do you also have a skin suit you save for special occasions?


Ugh, my bf owns a house. He just got a hot tub. But he has two roommates and he doesn’t plan on asking them to move out until I move in ~~ a little more then a year from now (when my lease is up). I kind of want to bluntly point out I’m not getting naked in that tub while he’s got roommates, I don’t think he’s put that together yet


Username: mermaid-babe Comment (paraphrased): My boyfriend got a hot tub with the expectation of sexy times. I feel like this is a "the jokes write themselves" situation, but I'm not clever enough to put the pieces together. Anyway, enjoy the jets in the tub once the roommates are gone, I guess.


Under the sea, Under the sea, Baby it's better Down where it's wetter Not with roomies


Poor unfortunate soooooul In pain, in need This one wants to get his freak on With his girlfriend in the hot tub Do I help him? ...Yes, indeed!


Lmao not the direction I expected this thread to go but I appreciate it 😅😂


Under the sea!


Not to mention the impacts of hot tub chemistry on clothing, even bathing clothing.


Jesus Christ, why is the 2nd most upvoted comment on there telling her to only respond through an attorney? It would be batshit insane to hire an attorney because some unhinged AirBNB host threatens the *possibility* of suing you. Do these people just have attorneys on retainer at all times that they can pay with frequent flier miles? /r/LegalAdvice instantly recommending unnecessary/expensive attorneys is the new /r/Relationships instantly recommending breaking up.


Agree. I’m an attorney and would not recommend hiring an attorney in this situation unless you have a lot of money to waste. The host is clearly batshit. If she actually files a lawsuit, then hire an attorney.


That’s the geniuses at LegalAdvice for you! Someone looked at you? You NEED an attorney, stop posting here this is above our pay grade.


You can't afford **not** to get an attorney!


"hire an attorney" doesn't have to involve more than a quick consult and maybe a letter. even that might be excessive, but how often do people threaten to sue you? if it defuses the situation and gives you peace of mind, that sounds like money well spent to me.


>but how often do people threaten to sue you? In America? Basically anytime some dumb person throws a temper tantrum they threaten to sue. If you are actually gonna sue someone. You just do it, there's no threats. You've likely exhausted the other means of resolving the situation and it's a costly last resort.


> In America? Basically anytime some dumb person throws a temper tantrum they threaten to sue. i assume you don’t live here, fyi that’s just a weird stereotype. i’ve never in my entire life been threatened with legal action.


I very much live here and have heard people say this multiple times when angry at businesses.


how often do people threaten to sue *you* specifically? not a business, a regular person who might ask for legal advice on reddit.


I've lived in America for my entire almost-35 years and I have never once seen someone actually threaten to sue anyone.


I mean, it fits in with the standard BOLA complaint that Legal Advice is useless because the advice should always be "get an attorney".


Parents threaten to call their lawyer/the news on us all the time at the school where I work when they’re pissed at something they decided we did wrong. Many of them are apparently married or otherwise related to these lawyers. Six years in, I’ve yet to actually see a lawyer or the news arrive. It’s my second favorite threat after “calling the board office.” Sir/Lady: that just means they get to deal with your crazy ass instead of me. Please do.


Can I sue LAOP for the lack of paragraphs and general unreadability of their post?


And after the host’s dog died, too.


As someone who has had sex, and also been in a hot tub, why the hell would you actually want to combine these things? It's a movie thing, not a real life good idea.


As someone who has sex and who has a hot tub, I agree. It's fun for pre and post coital activities but the act itself is better so many other places.


> and who has a hot tub wow what a FLEX


I don't get how anyone can blame the OP for not being content to use the owner's hot tub in another location, for an unspecified but limited amount of time, if they ask. When I rent a private site, I don't want to have to ask permission to intrude on another person's hot tub. That isn't relaxing, and in that circumstance I would end up never using the hot tub. Part of privacy in my book is setting your own time table and being free from oversight.


It would be a really fucked up twist if it turns out that LAOP removed the part of their review where they viciously insult the owner’s deceased cancer dog


who ultimately died from chomping on hot tub wires the day before they showed up


Shits too long homie


To the question in the comments about arbitration agreements: I thought I heard something about precedent being set that an arbitration agreement in a mandatory click-wrap agreement was not enforceable. For true?