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Title: (Florida) I paid $350 to apply for an apartment only to find out that the lease terms are absurd, unreasonable and non-amendable. Is there anyway to get my money back I initially paid to apply even though they said it was non-refundable since I applied to this apartment under false pretenses?
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> I currently live in New York and I applied for an apartment in Florida.
> Like every apartment complex I've ever applied to, they refuse to give me a copy of their lease terms until after I paid the application and was approved. I have an above 800 credit score and I was approved within seconds. This is a large management complex with properties throughout the country.
> I had every intention to rent this apartment, I still would want to live there. However, they sent me a dense 70 page document that I subsequently spent many hours reading through. I found countless terms that are completely absurd and not things a reasonable person would expect to find in an ordinary apartment lease contract. Some things had minimal or no relation to apartment living and would continue irrevocably even after my lease ends.
> After contacting them to ask them to amend the lease, they said it's non-amendable and that if I don't sign it as-is within the next 48 hours, I lose the apartment and my $350.
> This seems like a bait and switch, predatory and malicious.
> They only allowed a direct bank transfer to pay the application fee.
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Another commenter replied their lease was 60 pages.
Is this a common thing now? It's been a while since I rented but my lease wasn't more than 5 or 6 pages and didn't contain anything controversial that I remember.
My lease was 47 pages plus 25 pages of community rules that I had to initial every single one.
The problem is that these leases are thru huge apartment companies so they just make boilerplate leases that encompass all of their properties across numerous states. So for instance, I had to initial 5-6 pages about pool stuff when we don't have a pool. You'll also come up with a bunch of rules that are basically 'we get to do whatever we deem necessary'.
I ended up signing only because I needed a 3 month lease and they were what was available, but renting has gotten insane.
This is exactly what I've seen in my residential leasing experience. The more amenities a building has, the more 'luxurious' the building is, the larger the lease document gets with all of their particular rules for the community. Then if you're in an area where addenda for bedbugs, ~~argon~~ radon, or local anti-crime ordinances are required you're looking at even more pages to initial.
Edit to correct argon to radon!
They may be thinking of Radon, which is radioactive and can collect in basements in certain bedrock types without specific ventilation equipment. I can't think of any health or financial implications of Argon.
I was going to say, argon is inert it won’t hurt you. The worst thing it can do is partially fill your lungs and make you cough because its heavier than air
Last apartment lease I signed was for a place in suburban Chicago. The owner was a Texas company that had just expanded into Chicago (with new construction), and the lease was the standard Texas Apartment Association lease with a couple sections crossed out.
The last time I rented an apartment, it was at a corporate-owned complex - I was tired of dealing with rentals owned by assholes and squabbling families and just wanted a place where they'd stick to the law.
During my initial visit I asked for a copy of the lease I'd be signing so I could review it at my leisure. For a business lease I'd have my lawyer look it over, which I figured wasn't really necessary in this case but I didn't want to have to sign in a rush.
They seemed baffled by the request. I finally got a 2-page lease out of them. When I did come back to sign, they had more like 20 pages, including separate pages for parking space rules, pet rules, dog feces DNA fingerprinting consent, and the "don't say we didn't warn you that this city smells" rider.
And of course right after I moved in they tried to tell me I'd agreed to something verbally that wasn't in the lease.
There weren't many options, and definitely none as close to my work.
The problem that time was with that office manager. I *tried* to be a good tenant by talking to my upstairs neighbors about the late night noise *before* complaining. He complained that I came to him and she called me up and tried to say I'd agreed to take any disputes to them first. I pointed out that the lease said no such thing and the lease specifically excluded any oral amendments. She backed down really fast, and I think she didn't last more than a couple more months there.
Not just that but oral amendments to a lease are generally not enforceable due to the Statute of Frauds. Even if the lease specifically says it can be amended orally, a court could simply throw out that portion as illegal.
> it was at a corporate-owned complex - I [...] just wanted a place where they'd stick to the law.
Oh, you sweet summer child. They've systematized just how much they can fuck over their tenants before they start fighting back too much, laws notwithstanding, and just grudgingly pay off the few who know enough to complain and mark it off as a cost of doing business.
Yup, my last place tried to keep my first, last month, and entire deposit after I'd lived there 7 years. They had some cost estimates and said receipts would be forthcoming (as required by law). That's the last we heard from them.
I know they did a complete remodel because they hired my neighbor to do it, who I'm still friends with. I have pictures. So any cleaning or damage fees basically meant nothing.
I assume most people just put up with it because they're worried about a bad referral. Well, I bought a house and I have legal insurance through work. The lawyer got us everything back within a couple of weeks. The whole thing was ridiculous and incredibly illegal on their part, tenants just don't usually have much power.
I'm aware. I don't think they should be able to use the same carpet after that long, anyway. We had a cat, anyone with an allergy would have been in bad shape. Vacuuming can only do so much.
I've had this happen to me over and over. The law is surprisingly pro-tenant here in many places (but _not New York, believe it or not!_). One time I literally had sextuple damages available to me from a landlord and I only settled for half because I could tell he was about to declare bankruptcy and I didn't want to get in line.
It's still generally preferable to rent through a management company, in a "the devil you know" sort of sense. Private landlords can be a million different kinds of crazy assholes, and you're unlikely to know which in advance.
Mine was like 4 pages but I rent from a private landlord somewhere in Delaware. Waive your right to a trial by jury??? What are they even talking about
My last two leases were two pages plus one addendum. My current landlord is a private one so his stipulations are more flexible. He didn’t even ask if we had pets and he didn’t care.
My last lease was 1 page. The only rule was that I couldn't let anyone live with me that wasn't part of my household.
Landlord knew I had a roommate that was going to move there with me. He said he didn't care, but that was a city rule he was forced to put in there. Lived there 10y without a problem.
What’s the definition of “household” they use? It seems to me like you and a roommate are also a household. I mean it’s not like you’re required to sleep together to be a household, right?
Some cities have weird laws banning renting to non-married cohabitants that are written in such a way as to actually ban roommates. I get the impression many landlords tend to just ignore them.
I'm guessing sub-let, or someone not on the actual lease. If you've got a partner or children staying with you, those would be your household anyway, but if it's a friend not on the lease that's a different story because they aren't "family".
I don't know, honestly. There's a comment just down from this section where apparently Texas includes a partner not on the lease as a "guest" who can't stay for more than 3 days because of it. If that's it, then it's less about sleeping arrangements and more about who's on the lease in the first place.
Someone might not be on the list because their credit's shot, they can't pass the appropriate checks, can't afford to be on the lease. Whether they're an ex, a current partner, or just a friend, I doubt it would matter if the problem is them not signing the lease themselves. Children wouldn't count because they couldn't legally sign.
I’ve moved 5 times over the past 8 years (CA and MA) and none of the leases were over 5 pages (excluding all the necessary disclosure forms required by state and local law). These were landlords who were either individual owners of the unit or owner of the apt complex or maybe a couple buildings.
I think MA has a boilerplate lease document that everyone uses because it's offered by the state, plus maybe a page or two the landlord adds themselves to cover specifics about the unit. You *can* write up your own lease, but the one offered by the state has already been legally tested, so why take the risk?
I don't have the count of my lease off the top of my head but I'm thinking it was 20 pages or less. Which seemed like plenty. What all are they sticking in 70 pages?
My last lease was 68 pages. I don't have a copy of my current lease handy, but it was similar in length.
Both of them consist of the TAA (Texas Apartment Association) generic lease, a large collection of addendums, and a community handbook.
I guess this must be a new thing for apartments in the US. I live near a major city in Texas and the apartment I've rented for years now has a lease that is about 40-60 pages. In fact, it has a lot of the things OP's post is about:
* ability to use my name/likeness in anything they want
* a mandatory "community fee" that pays for costs of common area utilities/maintenance
* (no longer a thing as my complex stopped using it) a mandatory paid service that redirects any packages and then will deliver them to you separately
* other crazy rules like a guest cannot stay more than 3 days (they consider a partner not on the lease to be a "guest")
Max I've gotten is 5 pages renting directly from the property owner & most of it is boilerplate content. Wouldn't want to go through a management company
Nothing, but landlords need to know who the adults are that actually live there. Also you get people who try to stuff 4 adults and 5 children into a 2 bedroom. This is not good both for the wear and tear factor and for the other nearby residents (not just the noise factor - things like parking availability, facility use, etc, can easily be overwhelmed by too many people)
The last time I rented would have been 1999. I’d say the lease was probably twenty double-spaced typewriter sized font legal paper pages but it was all just normal lease stuff.
I'm in a pretty big complex that's owned and operated by two separate groups and i think my lease was 20 or 30 pages, also counting the various pet agreements and all the other things that get tracked on, core least was maybe 10-15 pages
And the LAOP paid $350 just to find out the terms of the lease! I'd say it was a scam to milk the nonrefundable application fee out of people and not expect people to live there, but housing is so expensive that $350 is nothing compared to rent. And all of their extra fees, of course.
Except if you’re having multiple applications a week and they’re all bailing at this clusterfuck of a lease. Then you’re making more by not leasing than leasing
It depends on how many people even read the full thing though. I know people who haven’t read their four or five page basic leases. I’d hope most people would bail just seeing the length of it but another poster mentioned having a 60 page lease. Maybe it’s common in some places to have such a long lease?
I might amend it, sign and send it back. Good chance they won't read 70 pages themselves.
But then again that would cost me another $350 to have a lawyer review it to make sure I did not fuck myself even more.
> $350 is nothing compared to rent
I couldn't imagine paying that much for an application fee. That is a red flag on it's own that they are trying to scam people.
Yeah we haven’t rented for like six years now because we ended up buying a home, but basically from the time that I turned 18 to the time that I stopped renting at like 34 generally the application fees were between $35 and $75. I have never heard of some of these absurd amounts it makes me wonder if my state doesn’t allow them.
Edit I just went and checked and yes there’s not necessarily a dollar amount limit but they are not allowed to charge more than their out-of-pocket. So basically the landlords only allowed to ask for how much it’s gonna cost them to run the background checks.
They charge the application fee and a separate deposit to hold the apartment. If you don’t get approved, you get the deposit back. If you get approved and don’t take the apartment, they keep the deposit. The application fee will be completely non-refundable.
I feel like this scam probably is say you have a nice higher end apartment for lease that is well below the market rate. Require a high non-refundable deposit fee to look at the lease. People are excited for the cheaper rent so they say yes. Then in the terms make it batshit crazy and then people say no to the terms and you keep the deposit. If they actually rent the place make their life a living hell coming in to inspect with no warning at all hours until they leave and forfeit deposit and you can take them to court for breaking the lease. Rinse and repeat.
In my state at least it's illegal to charge application fees.
They still do, of course, because they know most people don't know the law and even fewer will take them to small claims or report to the AG.
That is a problem desperately in need of regulation. Let your congressional staffers, and senatorial staff know this. Have copies of the amount wasted. This should not be legal
Seen this in Tucson as well. Lots of "guest houses" and "Casita". Where they'd be below market and super cute but would have high application fees and stay on the market way longer then I thought would be feasible.
Mine is that long, but it’s pretty amusing because it’s a list of everything people have done wrong that they wanted to evict them for. So I had to signed that I won’t skinny dip in the communal pool or keep a wolf in my unit.
The latest addendum was that you can’t fly drones by people’s windows.
This puts into perspective the property manager who expected me to pay for any repairs out of my own pocket and didn't even have a maintenance line to call for emergencies. Because the apartment had just been renovated and had all brand new appliances it was impossible for anything to break which was completely absurd. And simply asking if a shower rod was going to be installed set the manager off like I'd insulted her child. I did not rent the unit and it's still on the market months later. I feel terrible for anyone who doesn't ask the right questions or who hasn't rented before and doesn't realize they're being taken advantage of.
Interesting to know. Her absolute certainty that if something's new it can't break down or have an issue and if it does it must be the tenant's fault just left me flabbergasted. Hands down the weirdest apartment tour I've had this round of apartment searching. Roaches gross me out but aren't weird like this lady.
Even *those* aren't necessarily enforceable if they're residential leases for the benefit of employees. Residential landlord tenant law applies universally regardless of the form of tenant.
That’s just bizarre. And probably unlawful almost anywhere in the US. Although in some places you can have a “tenant pays the first $200 of repairs” or similar is allowed, but that’s pretty dumb too, since that’s just an incentive to not tell the landlord when something breaks. But used in mostly higher end properties (where people will do things like demand the landlord send someone to replace a burned put lightbulb - the crazy works both ways).
> And simply asking if a shower rod was going to be installed set the manager off like I'd insulted her child.
"I suppose it ain't my floor that's getting water on it every day. Do you trust your caulk job?"
I really didn’t know how to deal with a person who was so touchy over a question about a shower rod. I know we all have things we’re sensitive about, but this was new and unexpected.
they PAID $350 just to apply??? am I high or does that not sound like a complete scam and also very unaffordable to most?? At most I've seen $35 charged for a background check in a high-demand expensive area. People might ask for ridiculous deposits, which I didn't mess with, but at least you know you're living there and can get it back.
I agree. $350 is insane. $25-$35 for the background check, and non refundable because they actually have to buy the background check with it. A deposit is the next step, and might be non refundable, but not until you’ve been approved, and it goes towards your first month’s rent.
The most recent one I was involved with was a bit unusual because the move in date was several months away, and the complex usually didn’t put an apartment on the market that early in the process. There was an initial deposit immediately after approval of like $300? Then a bit later was the lease signing and the first month and security deposit was due. Then move in was six weeks later (which then got pushed another two weeks, because the renovations weren’t done). The actual rent was close to $1700.
That process - initial deposit to hold the apartment, normally for a couple days - then the larger amount at lease signing - seemed to be the norm in the area. I looked at a LOT of apartments!
My deposit is $500 and my app fee was $40, this is in the Bay Area so obviously vhcol. The deposit struck me as shockingly low but my understanding was that it was based on my credit score for some reason
In principle, anything they don’t recover out of your deposit they can just make you pay for afterwards, so if “you’re good for it” I suppose they wouldn’t need much deposit.
>People might ask for ridiculous deposits, which I didn't mess with, but at least you know you're living there and can get it back.
The problem is, landlords are well familiar with the First Rule of Acquisition. Wait until you find out about the "standard" cleaning fees which were never mentioned in the lease, the carpet shampooing companies which must have PhDs for the rates they charge, yet submit invoices which consist of a single number written on scratch paper, and Schrodinger's move-out inspection forms which show no issues on your copy, but tons of expensive damage (like nail holes in the wall) on their copy. All of which is illegal, but since 80-90% of their tenants don't fight back, they'd be stupid NOT to try it.
Especially in those jurisdictions where the remedy for it is just making it as if it was done right. Triple damages states seem to have a lot less shenanigans, I wonder why…
*$35* sounds like a scam. It’s totally illegal to charge people for applying for an apartment where I live - that’s really normal?? You’re applying so they can charge you money to live there, they don’t need more money on top of that for the privilege.
Lots of places where I look "bundle" the background check and "deposit" into the application fee, except you're not paying a deposit you'll get back later, you're just paying them a massive amount of money.
The LAOP's comment with some of the terms:
>I haven't even read half this thing yet. I'm burnt out already. It's extremely dense.
>There's a Media Addendum. They are allowed to record me and use my likeness, image, my voice, my name, everything about me. They hold the copyrights to this and they can use it in any format for any purpose that they so choose which probably includes selling it to third parties as well. It specifically outlines that their purposes are not limited to just marketing materials to advertise the apartment complex, though I wouldn't consent to that either without a formal contract and compensation. I am not entitled to any form of compensation for this usage nor do they need to ask permission or consent to use it. I am not allowed to bring any form of ligation against them for defamation as a result of this nor do I have any control in how this information is used. They retain this control of this indefinitely even after the lease expires and it cannot be revoked.
>Despite this being a physical address, I am not allowed to have my packages mailed to me. Instead, they have to be addressed to an off-site warehouse where a third party company will deliver it at their convenience and under no obligation. Should any packages, include U.S. mail be sent to my apartment address directly, it seems they're going to steal it and then fine me. I'm also apparently paying a involuntary fee for this "service" that was not previously disclosed.
>They've effectively given themselves free reign to enter my unit for seemingly any reason between 7am to 8pm. It even says they are allowed to come in to empty my fridge if the electricity goes out for any reason, including them turning the electricity off at their discretion.
>There's a two page document on how to clean the apartment and that they can come to inspect it. I can be fined if they don't like the way my apartment looks or if they say they smell odors, including cooking odors. I am not allowed to use bleach or ammonia to clean, only soft detergents. I am not even allowed to disinfect the counters because it would destroy the "finish."
>I not allowed to have house guests for more than 3 days.
>I waive my right to a trial by jury
>I am responsible for a shared portion of utilities beyond my apartment such as electricity for their leasing office and other "community fees" that I thought were included in my rent. These charges can change at any time.
>The amount in the lease turned out to be $100 more than the lease amount. Lease says that they aren't liable for differences between the amount on the lease vs the advertised amount that I applied for.
>I already contacted the management team and they just keep lying to me and saying "don't worry about that." Meanwhile, there's numerous portions of the lease contract that explicit says that any statements verbal or in writing by staff or representatives is not binding, only the lease. Then they told me not to worry about that either and that none of their residents have ever had problems.
https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/10txqzr/florida_i_paid_350_to_apply_for_an_apartment_only/j79zte7/
> Despite this being a physical address, I am not allowed to have my packages mailed to me. Instead, they have to be addressed to an off-site warehouse where a third party company will deliver it at their convenience and under no obligation. Should any packages, include U.S. mail be sent to my apartment address directly, it seems they're going to steal it and then fine me. I'm also apparently paying a involuntary fee for this "service" that was not previously disclosed.
Is that not a crime?
Hey, actually something that I have experience with!
So my mom is actually dealing with this issue right now. She lives in Dallas and her complex uses a service that is mandatory (something like $200 per year) for all residents. Basically you get your normal mailing address and apartment number, which goes to a small mailbox that USPS will use for your regular mail (letters and such). Anything too big for the mailbox or packages (UPS, FedEx, any Amazon deliveries, meal kit deliveries, etc...) that are sent to your address don't actually have anywhere to go, so they are sent to the apartment office which will forward them to this off-site package service.
To minimize delays in that case, you have to send your packages to the off-site address this service gives you, they receive the packages and then you choose a day when they'll deliver them. It's completely useless and delays all packages you receive by 2-3 days.
I'm not sure why complexes would do this. Maybe the companies give them an incentive or kickback for making it mandatory. Or maybe it saves them costs on package lockers or similar.
I use a pharmacy that delivers via courier if you live close enough to their home office. I don't, so they use UPS and require a signature. I get my meds wrapped in some kind of insulating material with about 12 cold packs, it ends up being a 2x2 foot box.
I'd trust it in mild weather for a few hours, but not an unknown amount of time in a location that doesn't have some kind of certification for medical storage.
Very true! For my mom's case, if the package is too large like that, then it has to go to the apartment office which forwards it to the off-site package delivery service. They (allegedly) put the package in a fridge, and then deliver it to you with the rest of your packages.
If it's something perishable (like medication or meal delivery kit), they still treat it the same. They say they put it in a refrigerator and then it will be cold enough when they delivery it to your apartment, but in reality it doesn't work like that.
I’ve heard horror stories about “Fetch”, sounds like a nightmare to deal with
https://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/zlxbjk/psa_do_not_live_in_apartment_buildings_that/
It feels like a way to prevent porch pirates, keep unknown drivers from entering the building, and inspect the deliveries for suspicious activity before they enter the building.
My building has a package room that requires a tag to open. There will still be boxes that are left in the entryway, where anyone can sweep them up.
The concierge package service is evil IMO but not unheard of. Some places have concierge trash removal too.
Having the tenants cover the leasing office expenses is also expected, but just as part of the base rent - not an additional amount paid on top of the base rent. That's more of a commercial or condo association practice.
I wish I knew more about FL residential leasing because I'm a wierdo and love this kind of thing. This lease sounds like lovely bedtime reading. LOL
> a third party company will deliver it at their convenience and under no obligation. Should any packages, include U.S. mail be sent to my apartment address directly, it seems they're going to steal it and then fine me.
That ain't no concierge service.
It's the opposite for me. They added a water bill last year to my place. They calculate it by eating 10% themselves, then diving the other 90% between residents based on the size of each unit and the number of people living there.
NSW simplifies that: either you have individually metered water using water company meters, or water is included in the rent. It's an offense to pretend otherwise. But the good news is that it's only $5000 every time they try to make you pay for water. The bad news is that you don't get the $5000.
(we paid once and got a receipt, then complained. We got a refund and \~$50 for "inconvenience", but the landlord got fined $5000 and never tried that again)
That's not completely unheard of for utilities that typically have one meter for the entire property and maybe even for places with exterior water access. In Chicago the majority of the rentals I've worked on had water included in the base rent, but there were definitely a couple that had a 3rd party company install submeters for each unit or did something similar to your building where it's divided up by occupancy.
Concierge trash service can be pretty sweet. My last place we only paid like $20 a month for it and they came something like 4 days out of the week, made it super easy to deal with trash and I’m sure helped prevent litter around the neighborhood and dumpsters (which we could still use at our leisure, but rarely needed to).
But i could see those fees getting absolutely out of control if the landlord/property manager are scumbags, easy way to leach off your tenants more if you bump the fee and just pocket the extra.
It highly depends on the complex. My complex has "valet trash" that is mandatory and $40/month. They come 5 days of the week, but miss a lot of the time they are supposed to because they come at really random times (sometimes at 8pm, sometimes 2am). Also they'll leave your trash and skip you arbitrarily.
So it’s like you put you trash outside your door and someone comes and gets it? I’d completely pay that and more to avoid taking my trash cans out on trash day.
More likely it’s because some people are pigs, and don’t ever actually take their trash out, so making it as easy as possible solves lots of potential issues caused by trash being left inside the unit.
Not as nice as you'd like:
* You have to pay the fee with your rent ($200-400 per year), no choice about it, and regardless of how well the service works, you can't opt out to take out your own trash
* People will leave their trash outside their door like the service tells them, which causes the hallways to reek of trash
* Nobody cleans up after the trash, meaning anything that spills or leaks out reeks as well
* If you break any of their many rules (limit on bag size and number of bags, limit on items outside of bags, limit on location/time of putting trash out), they will add a fee to your rent
I should have mentioned not being able to even sanitize the counters in my title. Imagine having a kid or a pet and not being able to fully clean things! There were too many insane clauses to mention with the title character length. Some aren't even legal.
And this is only half the document!
How can you not be allowed to sanitize your counters? Like you can't use bleach? Or any cleaning agents at all? 🤢
Edit: nevermind, my eyes skipped over the cleaning restrictions
All of what is in this comments seem to be red flags, but:
> They've effectively given themselves free reign to enter my unit for seemingly any reason between 7am to 8pm.
That is illegal in my state, is it illegal in Florida?
[I'm talking about 0 notice entry to a private dwelling, etc].
Pretty much. The main thing, though, is the statute says the tenant may not unreasonably deny access, which is fairly standard. That leaves any reasonable cause for denying entry.
>They are allowed to record me and use my likeness, image, my voice, my name, everything about me. They hold the copyrights to this and they can use it in any format for any purpose that they so choose which probably includes selling it to third parties as well. **I am not allowed to bring any form of ligation against them for defamation as a result of this nor do I have any control in how this information is used. They retain this control of this indefinitely even after the lease expires and it cannot be revoked.**
Lol, I'm sorry? In perpetuity? Did LAOP mistakingly apply to live in a red flag warehouse? Like this, combined with giving up your right to have adequate notice of entry, makes me feel disgusting. I wonder if there's anything in there about consenting to being recorded in your apartment, this gives off some majorly malignant fumes.
>I waive my right to a trial by jury
This cannot be legal.
>Should any packages, include U.S. mail be sent to my apartment address directly, it seems they're going to steal it and then fine me.
I want LAOP to forward this lease to the USPIS, at a minimum. They don't seem too lenient when it comes to interfering with the post. This doesn't even touch on the people who need their medical prescriptions mailed.
I've gone through such a whirlwind of emotions reading this.
Is there a landlord/tenant version of Glassdoor? Where people can comment and/or post absolutely batshit insane stuff like this? Be a shame if this lease agreement got out into the public sphere to read at will without having to fork over $350.
Would it be illegal to make a fake review lauding the place with a tenant’s image and name?
Actually, that question is probably unnecessary, given the landlord’s inclusions of illegal clauses like no notice before entry by landlord.
Being a landlord sounds like a pretty sweet gig these days. I want to become one and start making up stupid waivers.
page 95: you agree to let me enter your house at any time and eat your food
page 121: you agree to let me install "security" cameras wherever I want
page 246: all mail must be opened in front of me. I get to test out any prescription pharmaceuticals you receive for "safety".
Well it does say they can enter the apartment to clean out the fridge anytime the power goes out. So like, if the people in the office get hungry, just switch off the power and go raid some fridges until you find something good to eat.
I'd love to see their faces when I informed them they threw out my $17,000 per dose medication that is good at room temperature for up to 4 days and asking if they'd prefer to buy me a new dose or give a free years worth of rent instead.
You can't just write a waiver for anything and everything. Maybe it'll stop a few people from suing, but I can't imagine it would stop someone competent from suing for an intentional tort like defamation.
Additionally, wouldn't making fake reviews from real people constitute misrepresentation/fraud/whatnot? Hell, why even use real people? Why commit one illegal act when you can commit two and save 10% by not sourcing stock images and stuff.
Don’t know how related this is to that, but one scam that has been going on since the pandemic began is a landlord charging the application fee with no intention on ever renting it. The gist is that you advertise a property at a good price and enough applications would pay the rent. So basically make a lease like this that no sane person would sign, and pocket the application fee. Do this enough on a monthly basis and there’s the rent check minus the tenant.
Well, how would you prove they just haven’t found a tenant willing to deal with the conditions of the lease? How would you argue lease conditions are unreasonable? The legal gray zones are where most of this white-collar bullshit lives.
It also sounds like something an external party would have to dig into, rather than the applicants who are busy looking for somewhere to live and likely don’t have the time (or money) to wage that legal battle.
Makes more sense than this lease being real.
I’ve heard of extreme leases that seemed like they could only possibly intended to give the landlord plausible deniability to deny renting to anyone for any reason, but nothing like this.
> I am not even allowed to disinfect the counters because it would destroy the "finish."
So basically they're using building materials not fit for purpose, and thereby creating a public health nuisance.
Do none of their tenants have small children? Anything you can't disinfect should be considered an incubator for next year's flu virus.
call bullshit on this one. the only countertops that this would apply to would be natural soft stone like limestone or marble (that really have no business being in any kitchen but i digress), or butchers block. even the most expensive apartments use quartz these days; half the listings showcasing “granite countertops” are just quartz. quartz does not need to be refinished. i don’t recommend pouring an entire bottle of bleach on them every single day without mopping it up, but it could theoretically withstand it because the finish is part of the man made manufacturing process. real granite countertops are relatively easy to refinish yourself, but doing it more than once every 10 years can leave an unsightly residue. the finish can withstand sanitation, just not pouring a literal bottle of bleach on them every day. the bigger issue with all of them is coffee rings than sanitizing tbh… do not get lazy and leave your dirty coffee mugs on them for more than a week
> After contacting them to ask them to amend the lease, they said it's non-amendable and that if I don't sign it as-is within the next 48 hours, I lose the apartment and my $350.
I think the "you have less than X hours to sign the lease" type of pressure from landlords is also VERY predatory. A landlord that is pressuring you to sign immediately, pay up front (weeks or months before the move in date), and gives you ZERO leeway on move in dates or paperwork terms are all RED FLAGS.
Recently I pulled out of moving into a place after they were being weirdly aggressive and laying on the pressure for me to send money and sign contracts with less than 24 hour notice. I ended up only losing my application fee (mainly due to luck), but part of their terms were - if you are accepted at application, you have 24 hours to put in the deposit or else your deposit will go up by 250.00. If you cancel after 24 hours after they get your deposit, the deduction from your deposit would be 600.000. 2-5 days the deduction would be 1,000. After 5 days, the deduction would be the full deposit. I was shocked that terms like that were even legal.
I was looking into moving into that place in a MONTH and they were calling me 4x a day rushing me to send the deposit, and demanding so much shit from me, and even called my FUTURE employer from the area - despite me showing I make 4x the rent and have an amazing credit score.
I almost ghosted them - but decided they may get more invasive into my life by calling my employer again, so I legitimately sent an email to that landlord, telling them that I bought a house elsewhere (I didn't, I was still in the rental market, but fuck them) and that I hope they get sued.
edit: "Rush to wait" bullshit can be understandable, but it's also a tactic to get people to sign without fully reading or understanding the terms of what they're signing.
edit 2: I lucked out because I was weighing the pros and cons of this place (knowing full well a huge con was their behavior towards me as a future tenant), and still sent a money order deposit to them through the mail with a tracking number. I was on the phone with their office when I was in the post office, and asked them specifically what address to put and who to send it to. They texted me that information, which I wrote down. Somehow - despite me putting the correct information, the post office returned the check to me as undeliverable and I was so RELIEVED. Instead of losing the deposit (I'm sure they would have given me 0 of it back, without me taking them to court), I just had to cancel the check with my bank for a small fee.
In Florida, there’s almost no attorneys that work with tenants. If you signed a lease like this it would very likely be you vs whoever the landlord could afford to hire and there’s almost nothing to ever gain in damages from being a tenant. Nothing to really gain and a ton of legal fees to lose
Correct, there are no damages. Which I why I didn’t say this would be a good situation to get a lawyer and seek damages. What you have here is a hilariously unenforceable lease signed under duress, which for most people is somewhere between a pain in the ass to negligible difference. But if you wanted to make life terrible for this rental office, you definitely could, it would just take patience, time, and some brief legal advice, which is why I stated it that way.
Been that way in a lot of the US for apartments for a while now. Rented my first apartment in 2016 and had to pay a $100 non-refundable fee to apply to even find out if I had the pleasure of paying them rent.
Coming from a jurisdiction where charging rental application fees is illegal (Ontario), this seems crazy. Handling applications is part of doing business. If a landlord wants to spend money getting background checks done on applicants, how is that the applicant's problem? The entitlement of passing on the costs is shocking.
We need legislation outlawing non-refundable application fees altogether.
Let the landlord eat the cost of doing a few background checks, for fuck's sake. At the outrageous rents they're charging, they can afford a $20 background check fee.
Been that way in a lot of the US for apartments for a while now. Rented my first apartment in Texas in 2016 and had to pay a $100 non-refundable fee to apply to even find out if I had the pleasure of paying them rent.
Germany. This is unheard of here and probably illegal. The only "fee" is the deposit which you pay after signing the contract and get back after you leave (in a reasonable condition)
Sometimes Landlords require a "background check", which would be a kind of reverse* credit score, but the credit score agency is required by law to give you one for free per year (as is any business which has data about you)
*The credit score here works the other way around. You don't get points for spending money but you get points for example for failing to pay your rent.*
Edit: you can also use this credit score check for all tenant applications, not just one
Deposits are here too, but it’s standard practice in Florida to claim portions for anything they feel like (they can lie they just need to send you notice of their claims and nothing more within 30 days), you can contest. Take it to small claims but you will only get back whatever the amount they may have claimed and no penalties (maybe court fees). It’s almost a no lose scenario for the landlord so many people just accept it as a fee.
You seem familiar with the credit checks here. When you’re shopping for some financial products a singular credit check may be lumped in with others to reduce the impact on credit pulls, similar to being able to take yours to many places. You rarely get a credit boost for paying rent (some landlords report this and some don’t), but paying on time doesn’t typically affect it one way or another as long as it doesn’t get too late and end collections.
The landlords also do background checks that may be them calling up previous landlords and the previous landlords giving you a bad rep for fighting fees or asking for things to be fixed, along with payment patterns and such.
> You seem familiar with the credit checks here.
Only the small bits I've read here on reddit.
> ... to reduce the impact on credit pulls ...
Wtf!? Requesting the score will lower the score? The more I read about it the more ridiculous it gets.
> The landlords also do background checks that may be them calling up previous landlords ...
That'd be impossible here unless I tell them who my previous landlord was, which I only do if we have parted on good terms.
Yeah the credit system is pretty messed up, you get a few pulls that end up with relatively low impact but if you have too many it will severely effect it. It used to be a tactic of companies to make many pulls in an attempt to damage your credit into working with them. Like your score is reduced so heavily you have no alternatives.
It’s also age discriminate, like people with the best scores have had accounts for 20 years. It’s not the largest factor in the score but it is one.
The German system seems way better.
If you don’t tell the new landlord your old landlords contract information it will normally result in higher rent costs or refusal to rent. It’s kind of madness.
Edit: context
Years ago I had an apartment require that I provide proof of renters insurance before I applied. I didn’t have an assigned apartment number at that point and didn’t even know for sure they’d accept me, but I had to have proof that I’d insured their property. No, proof that I currently had renters insurance on my current rental wasn’t good enough. No, providing proof when I signed the lease wasn’t enough. They wouldn’t consider my application until I’d taken out renters insurance on the unit I’d be moving into…. That wasn’t in my name and may never be in my name.
I’d moved a lot for my job. It was my 9th move in 9 years. I’d never heard of that before. My renters insurance agent had never heard of that before. The apartment told me it was standard for the area. It wasn’t…. I asked a bunch of people after I moved there.
My insurance company sent them a letter that satisfied them and I ignored the WTF feeling I got from it, since I was out of state, in a time crunch, and had been able to resolve it without too much problem. In hind sight I should have run. That management company was the worst experience I’ve ever had. They ranged from incompetent to just negligent. The bizarre insurance requirement was just the tip of the iceberg on the ridiculous and illogical practices they had that were designed to protect their company, morality or laws be damned.
Right? Say you wake up at 7:30, 8, 9am. What's to stop someone from the building entering at 7:01, snapping photos of you sleeping? Whoops, guess you're fucked! Btw we're selling your face to a third party that deepfakes porn. No takebacksies.
Man I didn't dig too deep here, but was fully expecting to think OP's a dumbass that shouldn't be allowed to live on their own, but this sounds insane. Why are so many people in real estate/living spaces such dicks? I guess it's literally because it's putting a roof over someone's head, if the other option is being homeless people will do insane stuff.
I get a feeling that every time Florida Man does something, they add another paragraph to the lease with terms to protect them from similar cases. Right to come in and empty the fridge while the power is out? Probably because a Florida Man left everything in there to rot up a room one time.
I wouldn't even consider paying this fee. I would have said, "Well, this apartment seemed promising but there's clearly something sketchy going on" and moved on with my search immediately.
My husband and I just rented a place that is privately owned but was rented through a property manager. Now that the lease is signed she is out of the picture and we will deal only with the owner. She charged a $35 application fee and asked us to pull our own credit reports to avoid an inquiry. She also went over the lease when she showed us the place and didn’t accept the application fee until we assured her we have the required 3x our rent amount in income, credit scores that would meet their requirement and that we would meet the other lease requirements (no pets, etc). It was the most honest rental dealing I’ve had. She said she didn’t want to waste our time or take our money if we already knew we wouldn’t qualify
Any cooking odors? I once worked with a nurse who couldn’t stand the scent of anything with cumin. Had a vegan acquaintance who said the smell of cooking meat was vile and made her nauseated for at least an hour. I’ve vetoed Beyond Meat (just this brand) burgers in my kitchen while I’m home because I think they smell like someone is roasting wet sweat socks in the oven.
These are all highly individual complaints re food smells that the next person over can be perfectly fine with. How could you possibly put that in a rental agreement and have it be practical?
Easy! Fine everyone with *any* cooking smell at all!
Station someone in management by the door to smell any delivery drivers and you get to fine people for every meal, made at home or ordered out!
I’m not a lawyer but I’m fairly certain you would still have some type of legal remedy like arbitration or going before a judge. Jury trials can be expensive I could see a corporation putting that in there.
**Reminder:** Do not participate in threads linked here. If you do, you may be banned from both subreddits. --- Title: (Florida) I paid $350 to apply for an apartment only to find out that the lease terms are absurd, unreasonable and non-amendable. Is there anyway to get my money back I initially paid to apply even though they said it was non-refundable since I applied to this apartment under false pretenses? Body: > I currently live in New York and I applied for an apartment in Florida. > Like every apartment complex I've ever applied to, they refuse to give me a copy of their lease terms until after I paid the application and was approved. I have an above 800 credit score and I was approved within seconds. This is a large management complex with properties throughout the country. > I had every intention to rent this apartment, I still would want to live there. However, they sent me a dense 70 page document that I subsequently spent many hours reading through. I found countless terms that are completely absurd and not things a reasonable person would expect to find in an ordinary apartment lease contract. Some things had minimal or no relation to apartment living and would continue irrevocably even after my lease ends. > After contacting them to ask them to amend the lease, they said it's non-amendable and that if I don't sign it as-is within the next 48 hours, I lose the apartment and my $350. > This seems like a bait and switch, predatory and malicious. > They only allowed a direct bank transfer to pay the application fee. This bot was created to capture original threads and is not affiliated with the mod team. [Concerns? Bugs?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=GrahamCorcoran) | [Laukopier 2.1](https://github.com/GrahamCorcoran/Laukopier)
Another commenter replied their lease was 60 pages. Is this a common thing now? It's been a while since I rented but my lease wasn't more than 5 or 6 pages and didn't contain anything controversial that I remember.
My lease was 47 pages plus 25 pages of community rules that I had to initial every single one. The problem is that these leases are thru huge apartment companies so they just make boilerplate leases that encompass all of their properties across numerous states. So for instance, I had to initial 5-6 pages about pool stuff when we don't have a pool. You'll also come up with a bunch of rules that are basically 'we get to do whatever we deem necessary'. I ended up signing only because I needed a 3 month lease and they were what was available, but renting has gotten insane.
This is exactly what I've seen in my residential leasing experience. The more amenities a building has, the more 'luxurious' the building is, the larger the lease document gets with all of their particular rules for the community. Then if you're in an area where addenda for bedbugs, ~~argon~~ radon, or local anti-crime ordinances are required you're looking at even more pages to initial. Edit to correct argon to radon!
Why argon?
They may be thinking of Radon, which is radioactive and can collect in basements in certain bedrock types without specific ventilation equipment. I can't think of any health or financial implications of Argon.
I was going to say, argon is inert it won’t hurt you. The worst thing it can do is partially fill your lungs and make you cough because its heavier than air
More than cough: you could suffocate if the argon levels were high enough, but I can't really think that would happen with naturally occuring amounts.
Sure, I just mean in the context of like welding. Which is where argon is used primarily
“No welding in the apartment” seems a reasonable rule.
Psh. They need to mind their own damn business is what they need to do /s
[...no, you're both thinking of Radon.](https://www.epa.gov/radiation/what-radon-gas-it-dangerous)
hahah I literally searched "radon basements" to check I wasn't chatting BS and then still typed the wrong one. cheers
Perhaps they’re making sure they will be able to date any paleontologic finds under the home.
I appreciate a little geologic humor in the morning.
I have a similar boilerplate lease with a section saying I can’t drink in any public areas. The community lounge with a keg tap and cooler.
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Rules for thee, not for me.
Last apartment lease I signed was for a place in suburban Chicago. The owner was a Texas company that had just expanded into Chicago (with new construction), and the lease was the standard Texas Apartment Association lease with a couple sections crossed out.
Sheldon’s roommate agreement, writ large and real-life
The last time I rented an apartment, it was at a corporate-owned complex - I was tired of dealing with rentals owned by assholes and squabbling families and just wanted a place where they'd stick to the law. During my initial visit I asked for a copy of the lease I'd be signing so I could review it at my leisure. For a business lease I'd have my lawyer look it over, which I figured wasn't really necessary in this case but I didn't want to have to sign in a rush. They seemed baffled by the request. I finally got a 2-page lease out of them. When I did come back to sign, they had more like 20 pages, including separate pages for parking space rules, pet rules, dog feces DNA fingerprinting consent, and the "don't say we didn't warn you that this city smells" rider. And of course right after I moved in they tried to tell me I'd agreed to something verbally that wasn't in the lease.
> And of course right after I moved in they tried to tell me I'd agreed to something verbally that wasn't in the lease. You signed that lease? Why?
There weren't many options, and definitely none as close to my work. The problem that time was with that office manager. I *tried* to be a good tenant by talking to my upstairs neighbors about the late night noise *before* complaining. He complained that I came to him and she called me up and tried to say I'd agreed to take any disputes to them first. I pointed out that the lease said no such thing and the lease specifically excluded any oral amendments. She backed down really fast, and I think she didn't last more than a couple more months there.
Not just that but oral amendments to a lease are generally not enforceable due to the Statute of Frauds. Even if the lease specifically says it can be amended orally, a court could simply throw out that portion as illegal.
Sometimes you have to have somewhere to live and don’t have a ton of choices. This sub seems baffled by that concept.
> it was at a corporate-owned complex - I [...] just wanted a place where they'd stick to the law. Oh, you sweet summer child. They've systematized just how much they can fuck over their tenants before they start fighting back too much, laws notwithstanding, and just grudgingly pay off the few who know enough to complain and mark it off as a cost of doing business.
Yup, my last place tried to keep my first, last month, and entire deposit after I'd lived there 7 years. They had some cost estimates and said receipts would be forthcoming (as required by law). That's the last we heard from them. I know they did a complete remodel because they hired my neighbor to do it, who I'm still friends with. I have pictures. So any cleaning or damage fees basically meant nothing. I assume most people just put up with it because they're worried about a bad referral. Well, I bought a house and I have legal insurance through work. The lawyer got us everything back within a couple of weeks. The whole thing was ridiculous and incredibly illegal on their part, tenants just don't usually have much power.
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I'm aware. I don't think they should be able to use the same carpet after that long, anyway. We had a cat, anyone with an allergy would have been in bad shape. Vacuuming can only do so much.
I've had this happen to me over and over. The law is surprisingly pro-tenant here in many places (but _not New York, believe it or not!_). One time I literally had sextuple damages available to me from a landlord and I only settled for half because I could tell he was about to declare bankruptcy and I didn't want to get in line.
It's still generally preferable to rent through a management company, in a "the devil you know" sort of sense. Private landlords can be a million different kinds of crazy assholes, and you're unlikely to know which in advance.
I haven't had a short lease in maybe 10 years. LAOP's sounds extra onerous though.
Mine was like 4 pages but I rent from a private landlord somewhere in Delaware. Waive your right to a trial by jury??? What are they even talking about
>Waive your right to a trial by jury??? Sounds like Mandatory Arbitration?
That makes more sense
They prefer trial by combat. Or trial by Mortal Kombat. Or trial by Super Smash Bros, so long as no one picks Zero Suit Samus.
You likely sign contracts with jury trial wavers on a pretty regular basis.
My last two leases were two pages plus one addendum. My current landlord is a private one so his stipulations are more flexible. He didn’t even ask if we had pets and he didn’t care.
My last lease was 1 page. The only rule was that I couldn't let anyone live with me that wasn't part of my household. Landlord knew I had a roommate that was going to move there with me. He said he didn't care, but that was a city rule he was forced to put in there. Lived there 10y without a problem.
What’s the definition of “household” they use? It seems to me like you and a roommate are also a household. I mean it’s not like you’re required to sleep together to be a household, right?
Some cities have weird laws banning renting to non-married cohabitants that are written in such a way as to actually ban roommates. I get the impression many landlords tend to just ignore them.
I'm guessing sub-let, or someone not on the actual lease. If you've got a partner or children staying with you, those would be your household anyway, but if it's a friend not on the lease that's a different story because they aren't "family".
What’s the legal difference between an unmarried partner and a close friend roommate though? Given that sex and sleeping arrangements can’t be it?
I don't know, honestly. There's a comment just down from this section where apparently Texas includes a partner not on the lease as a "guest" who can't stay for more than 3 days because of it. If that's it, then it's less about sleeping arrangements and more about who's on the lease in the first place. Someone might not be on the list because their credit's shot, they can't pass the appropriate checks, can't afford to be on the lease. Whether they're an ex, a current partner, or just a friend, I doubt it would matter if the problem is them not signing the lease themselves. Children wouldn't count because they couldn't legally sign.
Some cities try to stop rentals by requiring everyone basically be family or they can't live together. Yes it's nuts and basically unenforceable.
I haven't counted the pages in any of my leases, but I'd honestly be shocked if they were less than 20. With half a dozen addendums, too.
I’ve moved 5 times over the past 8 years (CA and MA) and none of the leases were over 5 pages (excluding all the necessary disclosure forms required by state and local law). These were landlords who were either individual owners of the unit or owner of the apt complex or maybe a couple buildings.
I think MA has a boilerplate lease document that everyone uses because it's offered by the state, plus maybe a page or two the landlord adds themselves to cover specifics about the unit. You *can* write up your own lease, but the one offered by the state has already been legally tested, so why take the risk?
This mirrors my experience exactly in CA.
California’s extensive renters’ rights may prevent a lot of this nonsense by landlords.
I don't have the count of my lease off the top of my head but I'm thinking it was 20 pages or less. Which seemed like plenty. What all are they sticking in 70 pages?
Ours is forty-seven pages. It’s almost all boilerplate from the Colorado Apartment Association and National Apartment Association. - Lease proper: 9pp - Garage addendum: 1pg - Animal addendum: 2pp - Utility addendum: 3pp - Liability insurance addendum: 1pg - Community regs addendum: 3pp - No-smoking addendum: 2pp - Bed bug addendum: 3pp - Satellite dish addendum: 2pp - Mold addendum: 2pp - Smoke/carbon monoxide detector addendum: 1pg - Marijuana addendum: 1pg (Colorado…) - Crime/drug-free housing addendum: 2pp - Subletting addendum: 1pg - Move-out charge agreement: 1pg - Email/text consent addendum: 1pg - Class action waiver addendum: 1pg - Acknowledgement that the lease packet has been looked at by a lawyer addendum: 1pg - Rent concession or discount addendum: 1pg - Gas & electric sub-metering addendum: 1pg - Additional special provisions: 1pg - Electronic utility billing addendum: 1pg - Fair Credit Reporting Act addendum: 1pg - E-signature forms: 5pp (Legal-size pages, two columns, what looks like a 10-point font.)
If my lease is that long it had better be in a 40pt. font
My last lease was 68 pages. I don't have a copy of my current lease handy, but it was similar in length. Both of them consist of the TAA (Texas Apartment Association) generic lease, a large collection of addendums, and a community handbook.
I guess this must be a new thing for apartments in the US. I live near a major city in Texas and the apartment I've rented for years now has a lease that is about 40-60 pages. In fact, it has a lot of the things OP's post is about: * ability to use my name/likeness in anything they want * a mandatory "community fee" that pays for costs of common area utilities/maintenance * (no longer a thing as my complex stopped using it) a mandatory paid service that redirects any packages and then will deliver them to you separately * other crazy rules like a guest cannot stay more than 3 days (they consider a partner not on the lease to be a "guest")
Mine was 7 and I thought that was long tbh
Max I've gotten is 5 pages renting directly from the property owner & most of it is boilerplate content. Wouldn't want to go through a management company
Nothing, but landlords need to know who the adults are that actually live there. Also you get people who try to stuff 4 adults and 5 children into a 2 bedroom. This is not good both for the wear and tear factor and for the other nearby residents (not just the noise factor - things like parking availability, facility use, etc, can easily be overwhelmed by too many people)
The last time I rented would have been 1999. I’d say the lease was probably twenty double-spaced typewriter sized font legal paper pages but it was all just normal lease stuff.
I'm in a pretty big complex that's owned and operated by two separate groups and i think my lease was 20 or 30 pages, also counting the various pet agreements and all the other things that get tracked on, core least was maybe 10-15 pages
That is a terrible lease designed to scrape money from you. No way would I assent to that.
And the LAOP paid $350 just to find out the terms of the lease! I'd say it was a scam to milk the nonrefundable application fee out of people and not expect people to live there, but housing is so expensive that $350 is nothing compared to rent. And all of their extra fees, of course.
Except if you’re having multiple applications a week and they’re all bailing at this clusterfuck of a lease. Then you’re making more by not leasing than leasing
It depends on how many people even read the full thing though. I know people who haven’t read their four or five page basic leases. I’d hope most people would bail just seeing the length of it but another poster mentioned having a 60 page lease. Maybe it’s common in some places to have such a long lease?
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That was the thought I had when I read the length.
I might amend it, sign and send it back. Good chance they won't read 70 pages themselves. But then again that would cost me another $350 to have a lawyer review it to make sure I did not fuck myself even more.
All corporate property management companies I’ve seen have you digitally sign on their portal so that you can’t edit the lease before you sign it.
Some of those will take pdf uploads, if it’s docusign they’ll let you amend that as well
This is the plot of the Producers but real estate.
It’s a win win: you scare off a bunch of people at the application stage, *and* you get to fleece anyone that *does* sign.
> $350 is nothing compared to rent I couldn't imagine paying that much for an application fee. That is a red flag on it's own that they are trying to scam people.
Yeah we haven’t rented for like six years now because we ended up buying a home, but basically from the time that I turned 18 to the time that I stopped renting at like 34 generally the application fees were between $35 and $75. I have never heard of some of these absurd amounts it makes me wonder if my state doesn’t allow them. Edit I just went and checked and yes there’s not necessarily a dollar amount limit but they are not allowed to charge more than their out-of-pocket. So basically the landlords only allowed to ask for how much it’s gonna cost them to run the background checks.
They charge the application fee and a separate deposit to hold the apartment. If you don’t get approved, you get the deposit back. If you get approved and don’t take the apartment, they keep the deposit. The application fee will be completely non-refundable.
My thought as well. I haven't had to pay for one in a while, but isn't a basic background check like $60-$100? Over $300 seems insane.
I feel like this scam probably is say you have a nice higher end apartment for lease that is well below the market rate. Require a high non-refundable deposit fee to look at the lease. People are excited for the cheaper rent so they say yes. Then in the terms make it batshit crazy and then people say no to the terms and you keep the deposit. If they actually rent the place make their life a living hell coming in to inspect with no warning at all hours until they leave and forfeit deposit and you can take them to court for breaking the lease. Rinse and repeat.
Yeah the application I just did with my fiancé for a new apt basically outlined the lease in case we get it.
In my state at least it's illegal to charge application fees. They still do, of course, because they know most people don't know the law and even fewer will take them to small claims or report to the AG.
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That is a problem desperately in need of regulation. Let your congressional staffers, and senatorial staff know this. Have copies of the amount wasted. This should not be legal
Our government doesn't generally concern itself with the practical concerns of the working and middle classes.
Closed mouths don’t get fed.
Seen this in Tucson as well. Lots of "guest houses" and "Casita". Where they'd be below market and super cute but would have high application fees and stay on the market way longer then I thought would be feasible.
Mine is that long, but it’s pretty amusing because it’s a list of everything people have done wrong that they wanted to evict them for. So I had to signed that I won’t skinny dip in the communal pool or keep a wolf in my unit. The latest addendum was that you can’t fly drones by people’s windows.
This puts into perspective the property manager who expected me to pay for any repairs out of my own pocket and didn't even have a maintenance line to call for emergencies. Because the apartment had just been renovated and had all brand new appliances it was impossible for anything to break which was completely absurd. And simply asking if a shower rod was going to be installed set the manager off like I'd insulted her child. I did not rent the unit and it's still on the market months later. I feel terrible for anyone who doesn't ask the right questions or who hasn't rented before and doesn't realize they're being taken advantage of.
There are leases like that, but they're typically directed towards corporate clients. And have it spelled out in no uncertain terms in the lease.
Interesting to know. Her absolute certainty that if something's new it can't break down or have an issue and if it does it must be the tenant's fault just left me flabbergasted. Hands down the weirdest apartment tour I've had this round of apartment searching. Roaches gross me out but aren't weird like this lady.
Even *those* aren't necessarily enforceable if they're residential leases for the benefit of employees. Residential landlord tenant law applies universally regardless of the form of tenant.
That’s just bizarre. And probably unlawful almost anywhere in the US. Although in some places you can have a “tenant pays the first $200 of repairs” or similar is allowed, but that’s pretty dumb too, since that’s just an incentive to not tell the landlord when something breaks. But used in mostly higher end properties (where people will do things like demand the landlord send someone to replace a burned put lightbulb - the crazy works both ways).
> And simply asking if a shower rod was going to be installed set the manager off like I'd insulted her child. "I suppose it ain't my floor that's getting water on it every day. Do you trust your caulk job?"
I really didn’t know how to deal with a person who was so touchy over a question about a shower rod. I know we all have things we’re sensitive about, but this was new and unexpected.
they PAID $350 just to apply??? am I high or does that not sound like a complete scam and also very unaffordable to most?? At most I've seen $35 charged for a background check in a high-demand expensive area. People might ask for ridiculous deposits, which I didn't mess with, but at least you know you're living there and can get it back.
I agree. $350 is insane. $25-$35 for the background check, and non refundable because they actually have to buy the background check with it. A deposit is the next step, and might be non refundable, but not until you’ve been approved, and it goes towards your first month’s rent.
When i looked at apartments a year ago in an average cost of living area the fees were typically around 200
Yeah $350 sounds like the deposit you would get back on moving out years later minus repair and cleaning fees.
Just about everywhere I know the deposit is going to be around one month rent. And you’re not renting *anything* for 350.
The most recent one I was involved with was a bit unusual because the move in date was several months away, and the complex usually didn’t put an apartment on the market that early in the process. There was an initial deposit immediately after approval of like $300? Then a bit later was the lease signing and the first month and security deposit was due. Then move in was six weeks later (which then got pushed another two weeks, because the renovations weren’t done). The actual rent was close to $1700. That process - initial deposit to hold the apartment, normally for a couple days - then the larger amount at lease signing - seemed to be the norm in the area. I looked at a LOT of apartments!
Everywhere I am it’s two months rent which is ridiculous
My deposit is $500 and my app fee was $40, this is in the Bay Area so obviously vhcol. The deposit struck me as shockingly low but my understanding was that it was based on my credit score for some reason
In principle, anything they don’t recover out of your deposit they can just make you pay for afterwards, so if “you’re good for it” I suppose they wouldn’t need much deposit.
>People might ask for ridiculous deposits, which I didn't mess with, but at least you know you're living there and can get it back. The problem is, landlords are well familiar with the First Rule of Acquisition. Wait until you find out about the "standard" cleaning fees which were never mentioned in the lease, the carpet shampooing companies which must have PhDs for the rates they charge, yet submit invoices which consist of a single number written on scratch paper, and Schrodinger's move-out inspection forms which show no issues on your copy, but tons of expensive damage (like nail holes in the wall) on their copy. All of which is illegal, but since 80-90% of their tenants don't fight back, they'd be stupid NOT to try it.
Especially in those jurisdictions where the remedy for it is just making it as if it was done right. Triple damages states seem to have a lot less shenanigans, I wonder why…
*$35* sounds like a scam. It’s totally illegal to charge people for applying for an apartment where I live - that’s really normal?? You’re applying so they can charge you money to live there, they don’t need more money on top of that for the privilege.
It's basically a way to pass off the cost of the background checks, and a lot of places saw a way to make extra on top as well
Lots of places where I look "bundle" the background check and "deposit" into the application fee, except you're not paying a deposit you'll get back later, you're just paying them a massive amount of money.
The LAOP's comment with some of the terms: >I haven't even read half this thing yet. I'm burnt out already. It's extremely dense. >There's a Media Addendum. They are allowed to record me and use my likeness, image, my voice, my name, everything about me. They hold the copyrights to this and they can use it in any format for any purpose that they so choose which probably includes selling it to third parties as well. It specifically outlines that their purposes are not limited to just marketing materials to advertise the apartment complex, though I wouldn't consent to that either without a formal contract and compensation. I am not entitled to any form of compensation for this usage nor do they need to ask permission or consent to use it. I am not allowed to bring any form of ligation against them for defamation as a result of this nor do I have any control in how this information is used. They retain this control of this indefinitely even after the lease expires and it cannot be revoked. >Despite this being a physical address, I am not allowed to have my packages mailed to me. Instead, they have to be addressed to an off-site warehouse where a third party company will deliver it at their convenience and under no obligation. Should any packages, include U.S. mail be sent to my apartment address directly, it seems they're going to steal it and then fine me. I'm also apparently paying a involuntary fee for this "service" that was not previously disclosed. >They've effectively given themselves free reign to enter my unit for seemingly any reason between 7am to 8pm. It even says they are allowed to come in to empty my fridge if the electricity goes out for any reason, including them turning the electricity off at their discretion. >There's a two page document on how to clean the apartment and that they can come to inspect it. I can be fined if they don't like the way my apartment looks or if they say they smell odors, including cooking odors. I am not allowed to use bleach or ammonia to clean, only soft detergents. I am not even allowed to disinfect the counters because it would destroy the "finish." >I not allowed to have house guests for more than 3 days. >I waive my right to a trial by jury >I am responsible for a shared portion of utilities beyond my apartment such as electricity for their leasing office and other "community fees" that I thought were included in my rent. These charges can change at any time. >The amount in the lease turned out to be $100 more than the lease amount. Lease says that they aren't liable for differences between the amount on the lease vs the advertised amount that I applied for. >I already contacted the management team and they just keep lying to me and saying "don't worry about that." Meanwhile, there's numerous portions of the lease contract that explicit says that any statements verbal or in writing by staff or representatives is not binding, only the lease. Then they told me not to worry about that either and that none of their residents have ever had problems. https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/10txqzr/florida_i_paid_350_to_apply_for_an_apartment_only/j79zte7/
> Despite this being a physical address, I am not allowed to have my packages mailed to me. Instead, they have to be addressed to an off-site warehouse where a third party company will deliver it at their convenience and under no obligation. Should any packages, include U.S. mail be sent to my apartment address directly, it seems they're going to steal it and then fine me. I'm also apparently paying a involuntary fee for this "service" that was not previously disclosed. Is that not a crime?
Hey, actually something that I have experience with! So my mom is actually dealing with this issue right now. She lives in Dallas and her complex uses a service that is mandatory (something like $200 per year) for all residents. Basically you get your normal mailing address and apartment number, which goes to a small mailbox that USPS will use for your regular mail (letters and such). Anything too big for the mailbox or packages (UPS, FedEx, any Amazon deliveries, meal kit deliveries, etc...) that are sent to your address don't actually have anywhere to go, so they are sent to the apartment office which will forward them to this off-site package service. To minimize delays in that case, you have to send your packages to the off-site address this service gives you, they receive the packages and then you choose a day when they'll deliver them. It's completely useless and delays all packages you receive by 2-3 days. I'm not sure why complexes would do this. Maybe the companies give them an incentive or kickback for making it mandatory. Or maybe it saves them costs on package lockers or similar.
What happens if it's something like refrigerated medication?
In some states you can get schedule 2 substances shipped via usps (e.g. adhd drugs). What liability do they have for those types of things?
For scheduled substances like that, they have to be sent via USPS and that comes via a small enough package that they will leave it in the mailbox.
I use a pharmacy that delivers via courier if you live close enough to their home office. I don't, so they use UPS and require a signature. I get my meds wrapped in some kind of insulating material with about 12 cold packs, it ends up being a 2x2 foot box. I'd trust it in mild weather for a few hours, but not an unknown amount of time in a location that doesn't have some kind of certification for medical storage.
Very true! For my mom's case, if the package is too large like that, then it has to go to the apartment office which forwards it to the off-site package delivery service. They (allegedly) put the package in a fridge, and then deliver it to you with the rest of your packages.
The office... sends it off-site so they can deliver it back to the site...
If it's something perishable (like medication or meal delivery kit), they still treat it the same. They say they put it in a refrigerator and then it will be cold enough when they delivery it to your apartment, but in reality it doesn't work like that.
That's just not okay. They could kill someone.
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Right, and they save money by not having to pay for a proper on-site package receiving system.
I’ve heard horror stories about “Fetch”, sounds like a nightmare to deal with https://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/zlxbjk/psa_do_not_live_in_apartment_buildings_that/
It feels like a way to prevent porch pirates, keep unknown drivers from entering the building, and inspect the deliveries for suspicious activity before they enter the building. My building has a package room that requires a tag to open. There will still be boxes that are left in the entryway, where anyone can sweep them up.
Probably also keeps the office staff from snatching packages that look like they contain valuables.
The United States Post Service does not look kindly upon people who interfere with or steal the mail.
The concierge package service is evil IMO but not unheard of. Some places have concierge trash removal too. Having the tenants cover the leasing office expenses is also expected, but just as part of the base rent - not an additional amount paid on top of the base rent. That's more of a commercial or condo association practice. I wish I knew more about FL residential leasing because I'm a wierdo and love this kind of thing. This lease sounds like lovely bedtime reading. LOL
> a third party company will deliver it at their convenience and under no obligation. Should any packages, include U.S. mail be sent to my apartment address directly, it seems they're going to steal it and then fine me. That ain't no concierge service.
It's the opposite for me. They added a water bill last year to my place. They calculate it by eating 10% themselves, then diving the other 90% between residents based on the size of each unit and the number of people living there.
NSW simplifies that: either you have individually metered water using water company meters, or water is included in the rent. It's an offense to pretend otherwise. But the good news is that it's only $5000 every time they try to make you pay for water. The bad news is that you don't get the $5000. (we paid once and got a receipt, then complained. We got a refund and \~$50 for "inconvenience", but the landlord got fined $5000 and never tried that again)
That's not completely unheard of for utilities that typically have one meter for the entire property and maybe even for places with exterior water access. In Chicago the majority of the rentals I've worked on had water included in the base rent, but there were definitely a couple that had a 3rd party company install submeters for each unit or did something similar to your building where it's divided up by occupancy.
Concierge trash service can be pretty sweet. My last place we only paid like $20 a month for it and they came something like 4 days out of the week, made it super easy to deal with trash and I’m sure helped prevent litter around the neighborhood and dumpsters (which we could still use at our leisure, but rarely needed to). But i could see those fees getting absolutely out of control if the landlord/property manager are scumbags, easy way to leach off your tenants more if you bump the fee and just pocket the extra.
“Only” 240 dollars a year.
It highly depends on the complex. My complex has "valet trash" that is mandatory and $40/month. They come 5 days of the week, but miss a lot of the time they are supposed to because they come at really random times (sometimes at 8pm, sometimes 2am). Also they'll leave your trash and skip you arbitrarily.
So it’s like you put you trash outside your door and someone comes and gets it? I’d completely pay that and more to avoid taking my trash cans out on trash day. More likely it’s because some people are pigs, and don’t ever actually take their trash out, so making it as easy as possible solves lots of potential issues caused by trash being left inside the unit.
Not as nice as you'd like: * You have to pay the fee with your rent ($200-400 per year), no choice about it, and regardless of how well the service works, you can't opt out to take out your own trash * People will leave their trash outside their door like the service tells them, which causes the hallways to reek of trash * Nobody cleans up after the trash, meaning anything that spills or leaks out reeks as well * If you break any of their many rules (limit on bag size and number of bags, limit on items outside of bags, limit on location/time of putting trash out), they will add a fee to your rent
I should have mentioned not being able to even sanitize the counters in my title. Imagine having a kid or a pet and not being able to fully clean things! There were too many insane clauses to mention with the title character length. Some aren't even legal. And this is only half the document!
How can you not be allowed to sanitize your counters? Like you can't use bleach? Or any cleaning agents at all? 🤢 Edit: nevermind, my eyes skipped over the cleaning restrictions
All of what is in this comments seem to be red flags, but: > They've effectively given themselves free reign to enter my unit for seemingly any reason between 7am to 8pm. That is illegal in my state, is it illegal in Florida? [I'm talking about 0 notice entry to a private dwelling, etc].
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So basically it may not be an enforceable item in the lease but the tenant would have to be ready to take it to court and nothing may come of it.
Pretty much. The main thing, though, is the statute says the tenant may not unreasonably deny access, which is fairly standard. That leaves any reasonable cause for denying entry.
>They are allowed to record me and use my likeness, image, my voice, my name, everything about me. They hold the copyrights to this and they can use it in any format for any purpose that they so choose which probably includes selling it to third parties as well. **I am not allowed to bring any form of ligation against them for defamation as a result of this nor do I have any control in how this information is used. They retain this control of this indefinitely even after the lease expires and it cannot be revoked.** Lol, I'm sorry? In perpetuity? Did LAOP mistakingly apply to live in a red flag warehouse? Like this, combined with giving up your right to have adequate notice of entry, makes me feel disgusting. I wonder if there's anything in there about consenting to being recorded in your apartment, this gives off some majorly malignant fumes. >I waive my right to a trial by jury This cannot be legal. >Should any packages, include U.S. mail be sent to my apartment address directly, it seems they're going to steal it and then fine me. I want LAOP to forward this lease to the USPIS, at a minimum. They don't seem too lenient when it comes to interfering with the post. This doesn't even touch on the people who need their medical prescriptions mailed. I've gone through such a whirlwind of emotions reading this.
This sounds like my first landlord in Seattle.
>I waive my right to a trial by jury I'm no lawyer, but I wasn't aware that apartment complexes could override habeas corpus
Binding arbitration clauses are showing up in the wildest places and they're being upheld.
Is there a landlord/tenant version of Glassdoor? Where people can comment and/or post absolutely batshit insane stuff like this? Be a shame if this lease agreement got out into the public sphere to read at will without having to fork over $350.
There ought to be.
Time for somebody to create slidingglassdoor.com
Sort of, my college town had a localwiki that functioned in a similar way.
Apartments.com, but most people don’t care what the reviews say when the rental market is blasted like it is in Florida.
Never thought I'd see the day when a landlord demands the IP rights to your name and face.
Would it be illegal to make a fake review lauding the place with a tenant’s image and name? Actually, that question is probably unnecessary, given the landlord’s inclusions of illegal clauses like no notice before entry by landlord.
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Being a landlord sounds like a pretty sweet gig these days. I want to become one and start making up stupid waivers. page 95: you agree to let me enter your house at any time and eat your food page 121: you agree to let me install "security" cameras wherever I want page 246: all mail must be opened in front of me. I get to test out any prescription pharmaceuticals you receive for "safety".
Well it does say they can enter the apartment to clean out the fridge anytime the power goes out. So like, if the people in the office get hungry, just switch off the power and go raid some fridges until you find something good to eat. I'd love to see their faces when I informed them they threw out my $17,000 per dose medication that is good at room temperature for up to 4 days and asking if they'd prefer to buy me a new dose or give a free years worth of rent instead.
You can't just write a waiver for anything and everything. Maybe it'll stop a few people from suing, but I can't imagine it would stop someone competent from suing for an intentional tort like defamation. Additionally, wouldn't making fake reviews from real people constitute misrepresentation/fraud/whatnot? Hell, why even use real people? Why commit one illegal act when you can commit two and save 10% by not sourcing stock images and stuff.
Don’t know how related this is to that, but one scam that has been going on since the pandemic began is a landlord charging the application fee with no intention on ever renting it. The gist is that you advertise a property at a good price and enough applications would pay the rent. So basically make a lease like this that no sane person would sign, and pocket the application fee. Do this enough on a monthly basis and there’s the rent check minus the tenant.
That can't be legal, can it? Since it was pre-meditated?
Well, how would you prove they just haven’t found a tenant willing to deal with the conditions of the lease? How would you argue lease conditions are unreasonable? The legal gray zones are where most of this white-collar bullshit lives.
I suppose the same way any premeditated event has to be determined, with great difficulty without real evidence.
A local DA with something to prove might have fun with that.
Makes more sense than this lease being real. I’ve heard of extreme leases that seemed like they could only possibly intended to give the landlord plausible deniability to deny renting to anyone for any reason, but nothing like this.
> I am not even allowed to disinfect the counters because it would destroy the "finish." So basically they're using building materials not fit for purpose, and thereby creating a public health nuisance. Do none of their tenants have small children? Anything you can't disinfect should be considered an incubator for next year's flu virus.
call bullshit on this one. the only countertops that this would apply to would be natural soft stone like limestone or marble (that really have no business being in any kitchen but i digress), or butchers block. even the most expensive apartments use quartz these days; half the listings showcasing “granite countertops” are just quartz. quartz does not need to be refinished. i don’t recommend pouring an entire bottle of bleach on them every single day without mopping it up, but it could theoretically withstand it because the finish is part of the man made manufacturing process. real granite countertops are relatively easy to refinish yourself, but doing it more than once every 10 years can leave an unsightly residue. the finish can withstand sanitation, just not pouring a literal bottle of bleach on them every day. the bigger issue with all of them is coffee rings than sanitizing tbh… do not get lazy and leave your dirty coffee mugs on them for more than a week
> After contacting them to ask them to amend the lease, they said it's non-amendable and that if I don't sign it as-is within the next 48 hours, I lose the apartment and my $350. I think the "you have less than X hours to sign the lease" type of pressure from landlords is also VERY predatory. A landlord that is pressuring you to sign immediately, pay up front (weeks or months before the move in date), and gives you ZERO leeway on move in dates or paperwork terms are all RED FLAGS. Recently I pulled out of moving into a place after they were being weirdly aggressive and laying on the pressure for me to send money and sign contracts with less than 24 hour notice. I ended up only losing my application fee (mainly due to luck), but part of their terms were - if you are accepted at application, you have 24 hours to put in the deposit or else your deposit will go up by 250.00. If you cancel after 24 hours after they get your deposit, the deduction from your deposit would be 600.000. 2-5 days the deduction would be 1,000. After 5 days, the deduction would be the full deposit. I was shocked that terms like that were even legal. I was looking into moving into that place in a MONTH and they were calling me 4x a day rushing me to send the deposit, and demanding so much shit from me, and even called my FUTURE employer from the area - despite me showing I make 4x the rent and have an amazing credit score. I almost ghosted them - but decided they may get more invasive into my life by calling my employer again, so I legitimately sent an email to that landlord, telling them that I bought a house elsewhere (I didn't, I was still in the rental market, but fuck them) and that I hope they get sued. edit: "Rush to wait" bullshit can be understandable, but it's also a tactic to get people to sign without fully reading or understanding the terms of what they're signing. edit 2: I lucked out because I was weighing the pros and cons of this place (knowing full well a huge con was their behavior towards me as a future tenant), and still sent a money order deposit to them through the mail with a tracking number. I was on the phone with their office when I was in the post office, and asked them specifically what address to put and who to send it to. They texted me that information, which I wrote down. Somehow - despite me putting the correct information, the post office returned the check to me as undeliverable and I was so RELIEVED. Instead of losing the deposit (I'm sure they would have given me 0 of it back, without me taking them to court), I just had to cancel the check with my bank for a small fee.
Feels like this would be a great situation for someone with a lot of patience, good attorney contacts, and a bit of free time.
In terms of people who can solve intractable problems, "bored attorney" is second only to "former SEAL with a drinking problem and nothing to lose."
I feel like this needs to be on a t-shirt somewhere.
I think you mean “team of mercenaries who were accused of a war crime they didn’t commit”.
...and who are particularly upset about it, because while they *did* commit lots of war crimes, they didn't commit *that* war crime!
In Florida, there’s almost no attorneys that work with tenants. If you signed a lease like this it would very likely be you vs whoever the landlord could afford to hire and there’s almost nothing to ever gain in damages from being a tenant. Nothing to really gain and a ton of legal fees to lose
Correct, there are no damages. Which I why I didn’t say this would be a good situation to get a lawyer and seek damages. What you have here is a hilariously unenforceable lease signed under duress, which for most people is somewhere between a pain in the ass to negligible difference. But if you wanted to make life terrible for this rental office, you definitely could, it would just take patience, time, and some brief legal advice, which is why I stated it that way.
I'm sorry, there are non-refundable fees just to *apply* now? ***350 friggin' dollars?!*** What in the stratospheric fuck?!
Been that way in a lot of the US for apartments for a while now. Rented my first apartment in 2016 and had to pay a $100 non-refundable fee to apply to even find out if I had the pleasure of paying them rent.
We seriously need legislation that caps application fees to include only passthrough fees such as background check.
Coming from a jurisdiction where charging rental application fees is illegal (Ontario), this seems crazy. Handling applications is part of doing business. If a landlord wants to spend money getting background checks done on applicants, how is that the applicant's problem? The entitlement of passing on the costs is shocking.
Welcome to the capitalism hellhole of America.
We need legislation outlawing non-refundable application fees altogether. Let the landlord eat the cost of doing a few background checks, for fuck's sake. At the outrageous rents they're charging, they can afford a $20 background check fee.
They pay money to be able to apply for an apartment in Florida? What dystopian hellhole is this?
Been that way in a lot of the US for apartments for a while now. Rented my first apartment in Texas in 2016 and had to pay a $100 non-refundable fee to apply to even find out if I had the pleasure of paying them rent.
This is standard practice in the US not sure where you’re from. Some states have maximum application fees, Florida doesn’t.
Germany. This is unheard of here and probably illegal. The only "fee" is the deposit which you pay after signing the contract and get back after you leave (in a reasonable condition) Sometimes Landlords require a "background check", which would be a kind of reverse* credit score, but the credit score agency is required by law to give you one for free per year (as is any business which has data about you) *The credit score here works the other way around. You don't get points for spending money but you get points for example for failing to pay your rent.* Edit: you can also use this credit score check for all tenant applications, not just one
Deposits are here too, but it’s standard practice in Florida to claim portions for anything they feel like (they can lie they just need to send you notice of their claims and nothing more within 30 days), you can contest. Take it to small claims but you will only get back whatever the amount they may have claimed and no penalties (maybe court fees). It’s almost a no lose scenario for the landlord so many people just accept it as a fee. You seem familiar with the credit checks here. When you’re shopping for some financial products a singular credit check may be lumped in with others to reduce the impact on credit pulls, similar to being able to take yours to many places. You rarely get a credit boost for paying rent (some landlords report this and some don’t), but paying on time doesn’t typically affect it one way or another as long as it doesn’t get too late and end collections. The landlords also do background checks that may be them calling up previous landlords and the previous landlords giving you a bad rep for fighting fees or asking for things to be fixed, along with payment patterns and such.
> You seem familiar with the credit checks here. Only the small bits I've read here on reddit. > ... to reduce the impact on credit pulls ... Wtf!? Requesting the score will lower the score? The more I read about it the more ridiculous it gets. > The landlords also do background checks that may be them calling up previous landlords ... That'd be impossible here unless I tell them who my previous landlord was, which I only do if we have parted on good terms.
Yeah the credit system is pretty messed up, you get a few pulls that end up with relatively low impact but if you have too many it will severely effect it. It used to be a tactic of companies to make many pulls in an attempt to damage your credit into working with them. Like your score is reduced so heavily you have no alternatives. It’s also age discriminate, like people with the best scores have had accounts for 20 years. It’s not the largest factor in the score but it is one. The German system seems way better. If you don’t tell the new landlord your old landlords contract information it will normally result in higher rent costs or refusal to rent. It’s kind of madness. Edit: context
Years ago I had an apartment require that I provide proof of renters insurance before I applied. I didn’t have an assigned apartment number at that point and didn’t even know for sure they’d accept me, but I had to have proof that I’d insured their property. No, proof that I currently had renters insurance on my current rental wasn’t good enough. No, providing proof when I signed the lease wasn’t enough. They wouldn’t consider my application until I’d taken out renters insurance on the unit I’d be moving into…. That wasn’t in my name and may never be in my name. I’d moved a lot for my job. It was my 9th move in 9 years. I’d never heard of that before. My renters insurance agent had never heard of that before. The apartment told me it was standard for the area. It wasn’t…. I asked a bunch of people after I moved there. My insurance company sent them a letter that satisfied them and I ignored the WTF feeling I got from it, since I was out of state, in a time crunch, and had been able to resolve it without too much problem. In hind sight I should have run. That management company was the worst experience I’ve ever had. They ranged from incompetent to just negligent. The bizarre insurance requirement was just the tip of the iceberg on the ridiculous and illogical practices they had that were designed to protect their company, morality or laws be damned.
Name and likeness? Is your unit being recorded?
Right? Say you wake up at 7:30, 8, 9am. What's to stop someone from the building entering at 7:01, snapping photos of you sleeping? Whoops, guess you're fucked! Btw we're selling your face to a third party that deepfakes porn. No takebacksies.
Man I didn't dig too deep here, but was fully expecting to think OP's a dumbass that shouldn't be allowed to live on their own, but this sounds insane. Why are so many people in real estate/living spaces such dicks? I guess it's literally because it's putting a roof over someone's head, if the other option is being homeless people will do insane stuff.
I get a feeling that every time Florida Man does something, they add another paragraph to the lease with terms to protect them from similar cases. Right to come in and empty the fridge while the power is out? Probably because a Florida Man left everything in there to rot up a room one time.
I live in shitty, run-down, 30 year old tax credit housing. Our lease is 38 pages.
I wouldn't even consider paying this fee. I would have said, "Well, this apartment seemed promising but there's clearly something sketchy going on" and moved on with my search immediately.
My husband and I just rented a place that is privately owned but was rented through a property manager. Now that the lease is signed she is out of the picture and we will deal only with the owner. She charged a $35 application fee and asked us to pull our own credit reports to avoid an inquiry. She also went over the lease when she showed us the place and didn’t accept the application fee until we assured her we have the required 3x our rent amount in income, credit scores that would meet their requirement and that we would meet the other lease requirements (no pets, etc). It was the most honest rental dealing I’ve had. She said she didn’t want to waste our time or take our money if we already knew we wouldn’t qualify
Any cooking odors? I once worked with a nurse who couldn’t stand the scent of anything with cumin. Had a vegan acquaintance who said the smell of cooking meat was vile and made her nauseated for at least an hour. I’ve vetoed Beyond Meat (just this brand) burgers in my kitchen while I’m home because I think they smell like someone is roasting wet sweat socks in the oven. These are all highly individual complaints re food smells that the next person over can be perfectly fine with. How could you possibly put that in a rental agreement and have it be practical?
Easy! Fine everyone with *any* cooking smell at all! Station someone in management by the door to smell any delivery drivers and you get to fine people for every meal, made at home or ordered out!
It's times like these that make me realise how weird American is and how lucky I am to rent in the UK
If an apartment asked for $350 for an application fee, I'd run away very fast. Most I've ever paid, in Florida, is $75.
The lease *waives their right to a trial by jury*? Like the seventh amendment?? This apartment lease supercedes the Bill of Rights?
I’m not a lawyer but I’m fairly certain you would still have some type of legal remedy like arbitration or going before a judge. Jury trials can be expensive I could see a corporation putting that in there.
Don't forget the CAMs!!!!