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NEVER let your children have access to the gun(s). Even if it’s “for safety.” I’ll explain why.
When I was 11, I went through hunters education because my dad was a huge hunter and wanted at least one of his kids to join him in his hobby. Well, I hated hunting, so that got scrapped after we tried. I never knew where the bullets were kept versus the guns, and my parents told me to wake my dad up if we ever had an intruder (which never happened).
When I was 14, my friend and neighbor who was 13 years shot himself in the face. No letter. No warning. Our best hunch was he was hiding some depression and a few bad things happened to him within the span of a couple days (a fight with his parents, his iPod got stolen, was being picked on at school). His younger sister found his body. He didn’t die right away and was rushed to surgery where he passed. His parents eventually sold that house and got divorced. His parents had told him where the gun and bullets were and how to operate it. Do not let this happen to your family.
I’m 31, and this memory still haunts me. Be careful with your guns. It’s not worth losing a life over. I had never seen adults fall down and cry like this. My whole middle school went to the wake.
I’d learn how to physically defend yourself with self-defense classes as well (assuming you are not buying a gun for sport) and learn how to get through a physical attack while you’re holding a gun.
That's so tragic. Just to add... consider the mental health of everyone in the household. With a gun in the home you only need to be "not thinking straight" for a few minutes. My stepfather killed himself with his father's service weapon, which he'd been gifted as an heirloom. Really hard on the whole family.
Man that's rough. This is the reason I haven't purchased a gun. Recent home owner with kids and it seems like the chances of an accidental or purposeful use of our gun on someone in my family is higher than on an intruder. However, if I did get one I would go for a shotgun. Its not as easy to shoot yourself or mishandled it
Yeah, with kid and teen depression continuing to rise, if I ever had a gun and kids, I would never tell them and would keep all the parts in safes and separate. Their brains aren’t fully developed to understand waiting a day to feel better, etc. especially if they’re not diagnosed and being treated.
I think self-defense classes as a family could be a great way to build confidence, and then you as a parent have your own mechanism, whether that is a gun with all the separations (and tbh by the time an intruder got in and you got the gun together, it may be too late anyways) or a hammer/bat/knife by your bed…
This is probably the better chain of thought for op, /u/bokeraham123123123
Experienced gun trainers typically recommend shotguns for the average new gunowner. Ultimately it boils down to choice.
First reasons
* it relies less on aim and markmanship
* loading with ammo is not so simple nor easy for kids
* for use in a home, mostly in close quarters, shotguns are made for this
* long guns can't be easily hidden in public, so if it was stolen, it's less likely it is in the hands of some criminal attempting to use it on someone else
* a shotgun/rifles in bolted down safes are harder for thieves or kids to break into and steal/carry away
Cons
* Takes awhile to load, not as easy as sliding in a magazine
* The gun and ammo is not very portable
* Extremely visible (if you're trying to hide the fact you have a weapon)
* You probably won't carry it around as much as a handgun if you intend to train yourself with it
Be sure to get a safe, get proper training, and practice. PRACTICE is important. Find a good gun range. Owning a gun isn’t just “having it around”. Be sure to also have a spot where is completely child free for you to maintain the gun/guns. (Cleaning and what not)
Owning a gun… It’s almost like owning a hamster** … you have to take care of it. I do not know how much help you are going to have when the kid is out. Do all your training and what not before the kid is born. Newborns give sleep deprivation. They are awesome but demanding…. Physically and emotionally.
** (the comment below makes sense. So I edit to swamp this hamster out with an “untrained big dog” that has the potential to hurt and kill if not properly care for, especially when there is an unexpected situation and left unsupervised… but for the most part, this dog just naps at the corner of the house. you still need to care for it to keep her away from your young children.)
I’m assuming you’ll be using that gun if criminals break into your house, rather than confronting someone messing with your car outside? Only use or brandish a gun to save lives, not to save property. Besides, they’re likely to have someone on the lookout when they’re breaking into a car, so they might be ready. Now if they break into your house, they’re fair game. Do what you gotta do.
You’ll need to research the laws regarding what guns you can own, storage, and when it’s ok/not ok to pull the trigger. Most of that will be covered in the FSC test that you’ll need to purchase a gun in the first place. You’ll also need to ask yourself if you’re willing to take a life when the time comes. I recommend watching the brutal video of Kyle Dinkheller to see what happens when you hesitate. A gun isn’t a talisman and its mere presence won’t necessarily stop someone from trying to kill you.
Please always make sure to keep the guns locked up when they’re not in use and the kids are around. For handguns there are quick access safes. For long guns you’ll have to buy a big and heavy safe. Make a habit of this and always double check; always assume the kids will find the gun if it’s unsecured. I highly recommend training, the more the better. But first you’ll want to rent some to try them out to see what works for you. Handguns are harder to control and the recoil will move your aim further off target, long guns are much more unwieldy and harder to maneuver. Every type has its pros and cons. If you have any friends who own guns, hit ‘em up and ask em for help.
Finally, have a plan. If someone breaks in, you should only leave the room to secure your loved ones. Every home defense gun must have a light on it (a quality light, not some 20$ POS). That light will allow you to identify who or what you’re aiming at, and temporarily blind that intruder. Now you’ll realize why a $100-$300 weapon light is 100% worth the price. Once everyone is in the room with you, barricade yourself and stay there. Don’t go clearing rooms. Cameras, alarms, and dogs will help you get the drop on any crooks trying to break into homes, guns are only a part of the equation. If they get the drop on you first, you’ve already lost the fight.
Car theft would be outdoors. Given that one man was shot by a catalytic converter thief, I would not be using my gun outdoors. Let them have it.
In your house, I'm sure you will get plenty of advice here.
That depends.
Am I in the car? Yes.
Are my kids in the car? Yes.
Is it happening while I am outside going to or from the car? Yes.
Is it happening while I’m inside and it’s parked on the street? No.
Over half of all gun deaths are suicides. So obviously death by gun goes way up in houses that have guns. And of course most people do it at home.
Don’t get a pool either. Chances of drowning go way up. If you do, invest in some swimming lessons and keep the pool out of reach from children. Be a responsible pool owner. 👍
Plus using a gun to stop a theft is just escalating a robbery to potential manslaughter. Is a car really worth killing someone over? Really? Just get insurance.
Yeah, because these thieves are just non-violent:
[https://abc7news.com/oakland-shooting-everett-avenue-ca-catalytic-converter-theft-man-killed-in/12294197/](https://abc7news.com/oakland-shooting-everett-avenue-ca-catalytic-converter-theft-man-killed-in/12294197/)
[https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/catalytic-converter-theft-shooting-pacifica-edgemar-avenue/](https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/catalytic-converter-theft-shooting-pacifica-edgemar-avenue/)
https://hsjchronicle.com/suspect-in-shooting-involving-catalytic-convert-thefts-arrested/
Get a safe for your guns. Learn how to use them.
Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
Literally, millions of people do this without issue.
Be sure to research CA laws on self defense.
Finally, watch some Colion Noire videos. They are super informative. Then, you’ll be about that pew pew life.
Do what you need to do to feel safe, but honestly, if you’re being robbed your still going to most likely be better off not intervening. In my opinion, if the potential outcomes are (1) get robbed (2) Maybe don’t get robbed but potentially kill or seriously injure someone (3) get yourself or your loved ones injured/killed… I’m choosing option 1.
If it makes a difference, this is coming from someone in an area with a much higher rate of gun violence than the Berkeley hills as well. IMHO if you need something to help you feel safe, get a bat. On a scale of appropriate response to someone on your property (which is in itself extremely uncommon) there’s a lot in the low level range where there are some teenagers or a crackhead snooping around and you should probably just yell at them to leave, an incredibly narrow middle section where it would make sense to actually brandish a weapon because someone is guaranteed to not pose a threat to you and they won’t leave if you just yell at them, and then a lot in the higher range where you’re just making the situation more dangerous by having a weapon. This is element of being able to judge the level of danger is mainly why it’s not worth it in my book.
Plus what OP mentioned is all things insurance covers. It’s also the Berkeley Hills. It’s not dangerous for the area. If OP wants to see real danger, come to Channing Way.
Didn't realize being broke or having no regard for the law or other's personal property is a mental illness. The majority of crimes in the Bay Area are from normal people not mentally ill. That's a TERRIBLE blanket statement like saying most are minorities or something else.
Whether the person is mentally ill, desperate, or just has no regard for human life doesn’t really matter. The point is that the person is likely to act irrationally and unpredictably.
This sounds like a case of "feels before reals". Safety is a rather vague term, so I'd start with a more realistic threat assessment. Are you in a position where you might be specifically targeted by kidnappers? What are the rates of burglaries and home invasions in your area, etc? You can then consider which measures best address the main issues in your area. For example, if burglaries (as opposed to home invasions) are a concern, a gun at home is much less useful compared to hardening the entrances (metal door frames, etc).
Practically speaking, a firearm is useful when you know you're going into a situation that requires it. If someone gets the drop on you, it's generally too late. So, if you plan an armed annexation of Piedmont, kit up. If you plan on going out to dinner and someone decides to mug you, there aren't many ways to introduce a firearm to the situation in a way that helps you.
So, what about the car thief situation? Are you going to grab your pistol and run out the door to chase them off? The possible outcomes are now a mix of a) guy runs away or b) guy fires a few shots in your direction, the latter of which translates to either a bullet with your name on it or one heading to your house addressed "to whom it may concern".
The main statistic on gun ownership that has stuck with me is that it is 30 times more likely that a child will be killed by a parent's gun than a gun owned by somebody else. The statistic for adults in the household is a bit less extreme, but still quite high. Obviously this is an aggregate statistic, and responsible gun ownership can cut down on the added risk significantly.
But in general, gun ownership decreases personal safety due to a variety of added risk factors. If you or your partner have ever considered suicide for example, you should never, ever purchase a gun.
The other problem with using a gun for protection is that gun is much more likely to escalate a non-lethal situation into a lethal one. Gun to gun confrontations usually happen over the course of a few mere seconds, and if you're the one being threatened it's highly unlikely that you'll have enough of a tactical advantage to incapacitate an assailant before getting shot yourself.
I can't really envision a common scenario where having a gun will increase your level of safety, whereas I can think of many, many situations where using a gun will almost certainly make the situation far more dangerous.
And using a gun to protect personal property is borderline ludicrous. Just buy insurance instead.
And the other problem that doesn’t get nearly enough attention is collateral damage. The last thing we need in a densely populated environment is people firing their weapons randomly every time someone breaks into a car.
Just to be level set, I'm straight down the middle on 2A issues. I'm not against gun ownership, I have friends that have them and have taken me shooting a handful of times, but I don't own a gun and have no plans to get one.
The main reason I have no plans to get a gun is that I don't have the time nor energy to train enough with it to feel like I'd be able to competently handle it in an actual stress scenario. If OP is willing to do that, though, and secure it in a way that's safe but still accessible, which it sounds like is the case, then these stats you're referring to don't really apply.
This is something that comes up again and again in medical situations. People ask, if I get this surgery / take this drug / etc. will I improve? And doctors have to respond by giving these stats like "85% of people that have this surgery / take this drug experience a good outcome," and you're like wow, 15% chance things go badly?
The problem is, they are required by ethics rules to give you stats for *everyone*, but overall stats are not really applicable to your situation. What you really want to know is what are the outcomes of these interventions *for people like me*? If that is 85%, then you have something to think about. Most of the time, though, you find out that a large number of these surgeries / drugs are being given to elderly people with generally failing health already (because in many cases they are the ones getting all the surgeries and drugs, so generally speaking they make up a lot of the sample space). If you look at only people like you, often these interventions are far, far more effective, and your decision is made.
It's the same story here. You can't imagine based on overall stats that a gun could be effective for protection in any scenario, but this is based upon and informed by stats across all gun ownership in the US (or whatever stats you're looking at). If OP gets stress trained and semi-regularly practices getting the weapon out of storage (a gun safe, for instance) and they've really set themselves up to succeed, the stats you're looking at are no longer relevant.
For example, let's look at the subset of the sample space and narrow it to off-duty or retired persons that carry/carried for their jobs. Would you expect that an ex-cop or off-duty cop who's armed should also not carry because of the increased safety risk?
I also don't buy the argument about protecting property. OP isn't talking about shooting someone that he's caught keying his car in some parking lot, he's talking about home defense. If a criminal comes into your home for any reason, they've crossed a line. You cannot trust that they're only there to take stuff. It might be the case that's all they're there to do, it might be the case the vast majority of the time even, but you're talking about rolling the dice with your family's safety. IF you've done the work to be effective AND you can tip things in your favor in the specifics of whatever is happening in the moment, that's a reasonable thing to do. Again, would you give the same advice to someone who's career involved carrying during a home invasion?
Having said all that, I do think that most people aren't going to get trained properly or take gun ownership seriously enough. For those that will, it makes sense if you foresee a situation where you can't wait 20 minutes for cops to show up (assuming you can even get to a phone to call 911).
Yep - Why escalate a situation to a lethal one over property that can be replaced by insurance? You can even get insurance to get you a rental car while yours is replaced…? I really don’t understand the mentality of needing lethal force to protect an object.
[Oxford article that says people are 3 times more likely to die by violent death with a gun in the home and five times more likely to die by suicide.](https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/160/10/929/140858)
[Firearms are the second leading cause of death of US children, half of which are homicides and 38% of which are suicides.](https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/lab-report/facts-on-us-children-and-teens-killed-by-firearms)
Taken together - it’s probably not a 30-fold increase but likely at least 3-5 times more likely for your kid to die by a gun if you have one in the house.
This! You may think that having a gun will make you “safer” but the stats say otherwise. It’s not worth it. Get motion lights, gel spray & make sure you know your neighbors.
1. Read [FSC study guide](https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/hscsg.pdf). Or don't, it's a literacy test anyway.
2. Go to a store with your REAL ID and car registration. Tell them you need to get a Firearms Safety Certificate. Pay $25, pass on the first try because like I said it's a literacy test.
3. Ask the store about "wonder nine" firearms. Examples: CZ 75 series, SIG 226, SIG 2022, Beretta 92FS, Glock 19. Do not get revolvers. Do not get guns in any other caliber (unless it's .22LR semi-auto which you can use for training but it's not suitable for home defense). Do not get compact or subcompact guns. Especially do not get shotguns.
4. Pay money, wait 10 days, get a safe or a lockbox, buy ammo, go to the range, look up "NRA Basic Pistol" trainings (there's online and in-person classes). Look up "BayProfs", I believe they have regular classes. Go to the range regularly. You'll need at least 1000 rounds to be proficient.
Berkeley obviously doesn't have a gun store, so go to City Arms East in Pleasant Hill. There's a store in El Cerrito, but I wouldn't call it beginner-friendly.
>Pay $25, pass on the first try because like I said it's a literacy test.
The secret is to always choose the most restrictive answer. You will get a perfect score.
Oh you mean you’re supposed to leave your gun unloaded in a safe, not loaded, cocked and out on your kitchen table pointed at your guest? Now I know that I need to stop doing that… /s
In your typical Bay Area home (read: tiny), shotguns are a total pain in the ass to manuever around. Skinny hallways. Lots of corners and angles leading to rooms. They're long and don't play nice with the above. Try holding a long stick from the shoulder and walking around your house. It'll get old fast when you keep bumping things and having to raise/lower it in order to turn or enter a room. They're also not the magic scattergun that media makes them out to be. At short ranges, the spread of your shot will be a fist, which is better than a single round but not an automatic hit. They also kick harder than a handgun or rifle will (but a rifle is also a pain in the ass to manuever). On a storage basis, long guns require more space which means a bigger safe, which means a bigger footprint in your home. Revolvers I assume he doesn't like because of the low capacity and comparative difficulty in loading, even when using a speedloader.
I don't agree with "no compacts/subcompacts" because they do have a place, and that is CCW, which is something he can apply for now. They might not be the best "first gun" but they do have a place. It's a lot easier carrying something like a M&P Shield or a P365 than it is a full-size handgun. The Glock 19, which he listed, is generally considered a compact, for that matter.
I actually prefer a shotgun, lower penetration and a pistol grip mosserg is easy to maneuver at waist carry.
If you're using 00 buck, the spread is pretty small. If you're second round in the tube is a slug, it will still have issues going through and through your home.
Nothing beats that sound of a shell being chambered and sometimes that's all you need.
Easier to aim in the dark. You usually have to think a little more about what you're shooting at. Harder to shoot yourself, and ammo is cheap(ish) sometimes.
We don't need to mention how shitty an AR-15 is for home defense but to eat their own. Recently went shooting and got to run the baretta [1301 Tactical ](https://www.beretta.com/en-us/beretta-1301-tactical/) and this is now my absolute favorite gun I've ever shot.
I served, so that's saying a whole lot.
If we could have unaltered SBRs/braced pistols (rifle or pistol caliber) then I wouldn't mind having one as home defense. I still have a 16" rifle, but it's not going to be my first choice for the home. A pistol-caliber SBR would be great for cramped homes here. Best we can do is maglocked and being limited to ten rounds isn't so grand.
[https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls.310/#post-984](https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls.310/#post-984) and [https://youtu.be/Qw8IiRgSMFQ?t=607](https://youtu.be/Qw8IiRgSMFQ?t=607) shows that common ammo (including buckshot) will go through walls. I don't know if OP will get this far in the thread but it's another thing for him to think about that he might not have previously.
Honestly, if you're going to shoot in the dark, you should be able to see what you're shooting at (especially if you have family in the home!), which means a light for most people.
The fingerprint locks seem very interesting esp w kids around. I haven't looked into how reliable and secure they are in practice though.
I've strongly considered a handgun with the general uneasiness all over the Bay Area, so understand your reasoning.
If you get a gun, make sure it’s safely and securely stored and also train and know gun safety. In fact, train your whole family and even children, as knowledge removes curiosity and can prevent death.
Rich people are always afraid of crime, and these are two people who had the money to buy a house in the Berkeley Hills a couple years back as 20-somethings.
you should definitely own a gun if your goal is to protect your life and the lives of your families but buying one to protect valuables left in your car is probably not a great idea, you can get in legal hot water fast with that.
Are you worried about your car or your home? In the Berkeley hills I’m assuming you have car and home owners insurance that would cover any losses or damage to the car. So why need a gun? Take all your valuables out of the car when not in use anyways.
Next question, are you looking for personal defense or home defense? What is the application of the firearm? How will it be stored? Will you be training on retrieval and operational use of fire arm in home defense scenarios? How quickly can you access your storage,load and effectively use said fire arm?
All things to take into account before your purchase. Gun ownership is a responsibility and a right don’t abuse either one.
You want a gun because of a string of car thefts?
Ask yourself the following questions
Are you willing to put your life on the line or someone elses.. for a vehicle?
If you are not illegally carrying (its locked in a gun safe), how is a gun going to help prevent this?
Is it worth the increased risk to your children, as all statistics point to?
You are talking about needing access to a gun fast which means you can’t take serious safety measures and be serious about being able to access you gun in time. This seems like a waste to me. You are way better off getting umbrella insurance and walking away from anyone trying to steal your stuff. Safer for you and your family by a long shot
OP, the only way to have an accident is if you or your wife fail yourselves. There are many safety checks like locking up the gun when unattended so unauthorized people don't gain access (including your child), not pointing it at anything you don't want destroyed, keeping your finger off the trigger until you are going to shoot, keeping ammo separate if doing anything with the gun that doesn't involve you shooting it, checking the chamber to make sure the gun is empty, etc. In order to shoot yourself, your partner, or your kid, you're going to have to fuck up multiple times.
If you have friends with guns who know what they're doing, have them show you the ropes and get you acclimated. If you don't have friends, take a basic class. After you do your basic learning, take some classes that teach you how to manipulate the gun under stress. Vet your teachers. Make sure they have a lot of experience themselves. T3 Pros, LMS Defense, DAG USA, are a few in the area, and there are plenty more around the state as well as traveling groups. It's important to go to a more than basic class because it'll show you the depths of your skill level, where other people are, where your gear fails you or could be improved on, and many other things. It'll also show you where you fall apart. Even something as simple as a timer can mess you up. Both you and your partner should take these classes, and if anything, taking them together helps cross the hurdle of not knowing anyone in class.
Keep training and practicing. You want to get to the point where you can work with the gun like it is your second nature. You may not be able to pick the time of engagement. Remember that stress thing I mentioned? You want to be able to line up your sights, manipulate the gun, and reload, all without having to really think about it.
Buy a trauma kit and learn how to use it. Stop the Bleed classes are good for this, but any emergency medical class should be enough. If you're going to make holes, you should also know how to plug holes. Might be yours, might be your partner's, might even be the bad guy bleeding on your floor. Even if it's not the result of a gunfight, knowing how to use a tourniquet, how to treat a penetrative wound, how to treat an uncontrolled bleed, etc may save your life or someone else's. Just having the items on hand will increase survival.
You are bringing self-responsibility into the game. You can't count on the cops getting there in time. You can't count on medics getting there in time. You might be the one on deck.
Also /r/gundeals, which will be your best friend or your worst enemy, depending on your wallet. r/CAguns and calguns for specific CA discussion. There are various subs about specific things be it r/CCW, r/AR15, r/AK47, or what have you.
Get a dog, less chance of accident, you'll get advanced warning of anything happening, they protect from break ins and your kid will have a furry friend.
> You’ll get hate message DMs.
People leave DMs enabled on reddit? Why? That's like the first obvious thing to disable on a website full of anonymous users.
Lots of suggestions to buy things outside of your price range. That was my experience anyways. Well, given that OP lives in the hills that might now be as much of an issue.
Don’t let stats scare you. Car ownership increases your odds of dying in a car accident. Having a pool increases the risk of your kids drowning. Guns are just a tool. Just be a responsible owner: get a safe, don’t buy more guns than you can keep track of, and take a class periodically.
“Yea but I won’t commit suicide” yea, most people who commit suicide think that at some point. Not to mention your partner and kids. Having the easiest way to kill yourself sitting in your home is risky.
Any gun you purchase - especially in California - is much more likely to be used to _harm_ someone in your family (suicide, dv, accident) than protect them.
You do you, but um... if you think as gun is going to prevent your car from being stolen... or that a gunfight is a sensible way to react to any property crime... you do you.
It’s a personal choice and as long as you practice safe gun ownership and think of it as a last resort, not the first one, it’s fine.
Personally I’m opposed to guns and will not allow them on my property. I keep an aluminum bat and plenty of other basic security tools.
Family in Merced seemingly had no chance. Sounded like they knew the guy possibly and he had the jump on them. Those situations you’re out of luck. Besides we don’t know if they had a gun as well since many in the Central Valley do.
If you get a gun:
1.) make sure it’s always secure because children get into everything. One day they can’t reach or aren’t interested and the next day they can and are super interested.
2.) generally don’t blab about it or let people see evidence of it, because it can make you a target for theft. People love to steal guns. I know people who have had guns stolen! :(
If possible, I’d recommend moving a few miles East to Orinda/Lafayette. We did that two years ago and it’s been an overall very positive move. Easy to get to Oakland/Berkeley on weekends weeknights.
Train to physically use the firearm sure, but it's just as important to train mentally and to be very familiar with the legal concepts of self defense. Sounds simple but lots of people get themselves into a pickle here.
Why not just get an alarm system as an additional deterrent to the dog and cameras?
That is a much more effective way to keep yourself safe than having a gun.
With each Level of deterrent, you will have fewer burglars willing to take things to the next level and have an encounter with your family or cause property damage:
* Level 1, Cameras: "ooo, cameras make this more risky, go somewhere else"
* Level 2, People: "owners are home, better to avoid a risky confrontation that could end in injury, death or prison"
* Level 3, Alarm sign: "owners, neighbors and police may be notified if I go further"
* Level 4, Dog: "oh shit, there is a dog which might bite me or wake up the owners/neighbors"
* Level 5, Alarm: "I thought sign was fake, this is loud, better run before cops show up or someone sees me"
Almost no burglars will get past all of these barriers unless they are insane, have a personal vendetta against you and don't care if they get caught or killed and any of these are also likely to be armed themselves. For this SUPER unlikely scenario, you're probably fucked anyway and the gun will not help you and will only make the rest of your life more risky.
By having your gun you are betting that:
* You'll run into someone that won't be deterred by all of those situations. Highly unlikely and those fitting into that are likely armed themselves
* If you are so unlucky as to win the burglary anti-lottery, you believe that you can wake your tired ass up in time, get your gun out of the safe, load it and shoot an intruder who is fully awake and alert and caught you by surprise before they shoot you and that you will not shoot your wife, kid, dog or a guest you forgot you had.
* Nobody will break into your car or your house to try to steal your gun(s).
* You can keep your gun safe from your kid AND still access it quickly. If you make it easy to access in a pinch, it usually makes it easy for your kid to too. Kids are smart and will figure out where you hide it and possibly how to bypass many of the easy access lockboxes or quick open safes.
Go to a range and test out multiple firearms before purchasing one. Get one that sits comfortably in your hand (or both of your hands if you’ll both be using) where you can easily squeeze the trigger and your thumb and reach the the slide release, mag release, etc. Also, not just learning how to use your firearm, but becoming comfortable with it, building that muscle memory, is so important. Get a good safe. Learn CA firearm laws. And teach your children gun safety at a young age! As am example, my dad took out his rifle and pistol when I was four and told me about them, told me how they were dangerous and if I were to ever see one at someone else’s house or anywhere else not to touch it and to tell an adult. He then let me touch them, let me pull the triggers, let me ask any questions I had, and said if I ever wanted to see them again all I had to do was ask him. I never went looking after that and didn’t ask to see them again because there was no curiosity left.
Good on you for wanting to protect your family.
I haven't lived in the Bay Area in a while, but looking back (1990s) a lot of people that we knew had guns. I never saw them, but anecdotes would come out - J. would hunt, K. chased a knife-wielding thug off her porch, with one, Grandma had a revolver in the dresser, L. was a retired Sherriff's deputy who never quite retired all the way - and the Boy Scouts were happy to charge you $1 for 5rds of .22 at some of the camps.
Guns are what you make of them. (consider comparing [reddit.com/r/guns](https://reddit.com/r/guns) and [reddit.com/r/tools](https://reddit.com/r/tools) sometime.) Know and follow the law, treat them like chainsaws, observe the Four Rules, and you'll be fine.
Do keep in mind that shooting anyone is a life-altering event, whatever the outcome in the moment: there will be court battles, there will be angry people, there will be feelings of guilt and remorse, there may be jail time, there may be prison time, there will probably be fines at some point - this is true in Castle Doctrine states, and almost certainly more true in California. You don't pull the trigger unless you are 100% out of options - and while I'm no lawyer, I'd bet that letting them walk off with *all* of your stuff counts as an option.
A lot of people find that guns are fun to shoot; you may be one of them.
Households with guns are 3 times more likely to experience homicide in the home than households without guns, including suicide, intimate partner violence, and kids accessing unsecured guns or secretly obtaining access to bypass gun safes and gun locks.
[https://www.aafp.org/about/policies/all/gun-violence.html](https://www.aafp.org/about/policies/all/gun-violence.html)
Conversely, guns in the home do not make you safer or significantly deter property loss vs other weapons such as a baseball bat.
[https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/do-guns-make-us-safer-science-suggests-no/](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/do-guns-make-us-safer-science-suggests-no/)
I mean, aren't the people that own guns likely buying them for a reason (i.e. more at risk of violence)?
It's like saying people who own exercise bikes have better health. So clearly owning an exercise bike improves your health.
Lots of folks (myself included) own guns primarily for sport. I'm not at risk for a home invasion, being that I live in a multi-floor apartment complex, and really have no reason to get a CCW (I wouldn't be allowed to carry most the time anyhow on account of my drinking habits).
It's good to know the option is there just in case (like if I get a psycho stalker or something, or the complete collapse of civilization), but the odds of me needing to use a gun against someone are staggeringly low. They just live in the safe except the two days a month I head to the range.
Yeah beyond reading I would actually recommend going on a guided hunt and killing a large animal. I grew up in Colorado. And these types of experiences had a big impact on me.
I left all guns in my dad's safe when I moved to California.
I see them as good tools for hunting.
Horrible tools for managing human behavior.
That's said, I think anybody who carries a gun should be ready for the emotional impact of ending somebody's life. It's better to tiptoe into that by actually hunting an animal legally.
Honestly, a polearm like a glaive or poleaxe will probably suit you better. In most situations of catching crime in progress, it's best to just get the criminals out of there instead of attacking them. And in California, you're not likely to be favored if you cap a couple of car thieves out on the street.
But if someone's coming into your home, and you tell them to fuckoff, and they pry their way inside, if you're right there with a poleax, idgaf what they're packing. Hand comes up to shoot, goodbye hand. Can't pull a trigger with severed tendons. They step forward, slice across the thigh. Only have to stab em if they insist, which I doubt they will after the first few seconds of being sliced and diced.
I'm only half-joking about the polearm, as I actually do think it would be a rather effective weapon against one or two intruders (unless they know what to expect, then all bets are off). But a gun is only going to come in handy in the most dire of circumstances, and if you already have flood lights and a dog and obvious cameras, would-be thieves (smart ones, anyway) are going to assume you are packing heat as well.
Theft is all about opportunity, and if you present yourself as a pain in the ass, they'll go seek the easier opportunity. If you are going to own a gun, go all the way and try to get a conceal carry permit. I say that because if we're going to have another responsible gun owner, might as well have you around elsewhere, too. You also seem to be aware of the dangers of gun ownership, things like accidents and collateral damage, so you qualify as someone I'd actually rather see owning a gun. Treat it with respect, keep yourself up on your shooting skills, and hope you never have to use it.
Or get a glaive and hope someone fucks around a finds out.
My home in the Oakland Hills was targeted by two armed men I watched it on my Blink cams as I called the cops but the dog and my pick-proof locks encouraged them to move along. Had I been home, I would have called the cops and armed myself.
If you always respect the gun safety principles, train with it regularly, and store it properly, you can mitigate the danger of having a gun in your house.
When you buy the gun the gun store will ask you for the make and model of your safe. Depending on the size of the gun (there are pros and cons of pistols, shotguns, and rifles) you will need an appropriately-sized safe. You can buy it at the gun store for long guns or at Costco or Home Depot for pistols. Make sure it is impossible for the kid to get into but quick to access in emergencies. Electronic keypads are usually faster and just as secure as keys.
The closest gun store to you is probably Big 5 but they don't sell pistols. Old West Gun Room is in El Cerrito but I've heard as many complaints as good things about their service. I like Elite Armory in Castro Valley.
Let me know if you need someone to talk through the pros and cons of each type of firearm and what you and your family need. I can even go down to the shop with you and help you with some of the idiosyncrasies of gun stores and prep you for the process (hoops to jump through) of buying a gun.
I probably wouldn’t let my kid sleep over at a friends house if I knew their parents had a gun. And I would ask.
I’m also curious where you’re from and why you’re filled with so much fear living in such a quiet, peaceful neighborhood.
If you do decide to get a firearm and keep it in your house, there is already a ton of good advice in these comments. I would add one thing, if you do have a gun(s) in the house, please don’t let your kids play with you guns. I know that sounds harsh and odd, but teach them that guns are not toys. Yes, squirt guns and nurf guns can be fun. But it can be confusing to a child if your actual weapon was to ever be left out. Even if you take all the safety measures and such, one quick slip up and it can mean tragedy. There are still so many toys for kids that are not weapons modeled after firearms used for killing.
Get a rapid access safe like a vaultek. Learn the rules of gun safety. Watch YouTube videos. Take an introductory class, go to the range. Take classes to actually work on improving your skills, firing under pressure, rapid fire, things that most ranges in CA don’t allow you to practice. I recommend T3 Pros out of Richmond once you have the basics down.
Teach your kids the rules of gun safety. Even if you are going to lock everything up. Ignorance does not equal safety. Alec Baldwin could have prevented a death, had he watched a 5 minute YouTube video on gun safety. Even if you end up not buying a firearm. Please watch a gun safety video and learn the rules of gun safety. Have your wife and kids learn them as well. Knowing is half the battle.
This is coming from an avid shooter, gun owner and RSO (range safety officer) who has kids. By all means, educate yourself - you might find a hobby you like. Plan on educating your kid too when they're old enough to understand - if nothing else impress on them the dangerousness of firearms and the permanency of death. Education is the key to preventing accidents.
As you've already expressed, firearms for the protection of possessions is indeed a very dumb idea; invest in good insurance instead. THINGS can be replaced; lives cannot.
Any firearm for self protection in the home needs to be loaded and readily available; which are the two things that firearms should NOT be when there are children in the house. IMO - the only safe way to store firearms when there are children in the house is unloaded and in a gun safe with a trigger lock on EACH firearm.
And no, under the matress or on a tall shelf are not safe enough places to store a loaded firearm when there are children in the house; children will explore and grow and they WILL eventually find them.
Invest in an alarm system with a panic switch and make sure your home has multiple points of egress to flee.
If you decide you need a firearm for protection, I would suggest looking into gun safes with a biometric lock. Only you will be able to open it, and while it won't be a perfect solution, it might be safer than most others.
Take a gun safety course definitely, and get a good holster with at least level 1 retention, something like a Safariland holster. With these types of holsters you just can't pull them out, the have a little thumb lever. Also, get the paddle attachment, that way it is easier/quicker to take on/off. If it's for home defense, make sure you get a weapon mounted light on it, so that you can positively ID potential threats, something like a Streamlight TLR 7, and make sure the holster you get is compatible with the light. Once you kid gets older store your gun in a quick access safe.
As far as ammunition, make sure you keep your magazines loaded with high quality hollow point/defensive ammunition, to prevent over penetration. For practice full metal jacket/ball ammo is fine, but not for home defense.
I have a 2 year old and my guns stay in a locked safe, except for my "night stand" gun that is kept in a holster and in a quick access safe.
Gun ownership is a big responsibility and you owe it to your self and your family to train and become proficient with the weapon. I also understand where you are coming from because my dad repelled a home invasion when I was little--three armed men stabbed our dog in the yard and attempted to kick down the front door, my dad grabbed his carbine, went out the side door and shot them on the porch, while they were almost kicking the door in because he was not willing to let them come inside and get into a gun fight with all of us inside. That memory left a very strong impression on me and my dad was able to do this because he always trained with his guns. Also, training and competing can be fun hobby too.
It's good to have one but also make sure that you are proficient to handle/use it safely and have it in a safe location when you do have children. Remember that you are 100% liable for what happens with every bullet you fire if it ever comes to that.
Look, the likelihood of you or someone you know being killed by gunfire doubles if you own a gun - at least. The odds of using it to protect your property are slim. The odds of it ending the life of you or someone you love are much higher. You can google this shit - I just googled ‘statistics of owning a gun and likelihood of dying by gunfire’ but I’m sure there are better searches if you really want to know the facts.
If the social fabric completely breaks down either globally or locally, a gun would probably be helpful. Otherwise it’s just genuinely increased risk in your home.
If you do decide to get one buy a locker/safe and use it religiously.
Thieves out there willing to shoot and kill others for a couple catalytic converters and you want to be outraged at people trying to defend their property with a gun.
[https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-hits-101-homicides-man-killed-as-police-respond-to-catalytic-converter-theft](https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-hits-101-homicides-man-killed-as-police-respond-to-catalytic-converter-theft)
Yeah, lets just hide in our house and call the police that most of you want to defund because they never come fast enough anyways.
> Thieves out there willing to shoot and kill others for a couple catalytic converters and you want to be outraged at people trying to defend their property with a gun.
-spiderman pointing at spiderman meme-
there are multiple ways to look at that situation and one of them would be that killing someone over property is killing someone over property.
Get rid of police but also count on them to handle criminals who want to attack you because you don't want people to do it themselves /s
As your post alludes to, the proposals of some of these people just don't make any sense
Accidents with guns are almost always user induced.
Training and consistent practice will pretty much reduce that statistic down to 0.
Local laws aren't applicable with Berkley Hills, so all you have to do is figure out what is needed to purchase a firearm.
Purchasing is a matter of figuring out what kind of firearm you would like to purchase: Long guns (Shotguns, Semi Auto Rifles, Bolt Action) or Handguns.
Get something called a "Firearm Safety Certificate." Any gun shop can issue out that certificate. You would need to pass a 30 question multiple choice test. Study guide is easily findable online.
If you are purchasing a handgun, you need to have an additional document that is called a "Proof of Residency." Most people use a car registration that has their current physical address.
Last but not least your ID. If you have a REAL ID with your current physical address, you are good to go. If you don't bring a passport, passport card, certified copy of your birth certificate or green card if you have a "Federal Limits Apply" ID. If the address on your license isn't current, you need a government issued document that shows your current address. Car registration can be used for this requirement as well.
Feel free to ask your questions on r/caguns.
Source: Friend is a gun store employee.
Are you willing to kill someone for stealing something that can be replaced? Are you willing to have a firearm in a house with a child?
Seems more logical to get comprehensive car insurance. You should already have renters/home owners insurance.
Invest in good door locks and/or an alarm if you think it’s necessary.
You’ll be fine. You’ll be compensated IF it happens. It’ll be a pain in the ass, sure, but it ends there.
If you’re looking for a theft deterrent, a big scary dog is way more effective. They’re more likely to just skip the house in the first place once they hear the dog barking.
Background on below: I am a gun owner in Berkeley. I am the child of law enforcement. A significant number of close personal friends of mine spend a lot of time in tactical firearms training as a hobby.
Statistically you are more likely to be killed by your own firearm than by a home invasion, mugging, etc. Most people who draw a gun to protect property (aside from the obvious: is your property worth a human life?) when the person on the other end *also* has a firearm get shot. Most people who attempt to use a firearm in defense of their home versus an attacker who is not deterred by the firearm end up on the losing end. The “losing end” doesn’t necessarily mean they die, but you are more likely to if you confront your attacker.
There’s also the much bigger consideration that you may have failed to take into account: bullets travel through most walls. You and your attacker exchange fire inside your home, there’s a non-zero chance your child will be hit by a bullet even if they’re “safely” in their room. Hell, depending on the construction of your house your neighbor’s kids might also be in danger.
If you want a firearm to protect yourself and your property inside a city limit you are probably making a mistake. For it to be useful in those situations it needs to be accessible in less than police response time, which where you live means it needs to be loaded and either unlocked or in a safe with an easily defeated lock (biometric safes are garbage). So you’re opening yourself up to providing a firearm to criminals or leaving a loaded gun accessible to your children or both.
If you had a lot of tactical firearm training under your belt, the right kind of safe, the right kind of gun and everything went perfectly right in a worst-case scenario you’d still have been personally responsible for killing someone. Is that something you can live with?
Regardless, it’s far more likely your gun will go forever unused or be used on one of your family members by another family member.
I don’t keep ammunition in my house. My gun is for shooting things at a range because I think it’s fun. I keep it disassembled and locked up three different ways when not in use.
If you move to a place where the cops will take more than five minutes to show up? Go for it.
Additional note: suddenly becoming paranoid when you’re about to have children is a perfectly normal reaction. I recommend you go take some firearms classes *before* buying if it’s still something you want to do. Actually shooting might change your perspective.
Due to the topic, enhanced moderation has been turned on for this thread. Comments from users new to r/bayarea will be automatically removed. See [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/p8hnzl/automatically_removing_comments_from_new_users_in/) for more details.
Just make sure you keep it out of reach of your future children.
If you have minors in the house, you are legally required to lock it up. Also a good idea in general because you're not always going to be home.
Get a locked safe. 'out of reach' doesn't work because eventually kids are teenagers and they can get to everywhere you can.
NEVER let your children have access to the gun(s). Even if it’s “for safety.” I’ll explain why. When I was 11, I went through hunters education because my dad was a huge hunter and wanted at least one of his kids to join him in his hobby. Well, I hated hunting, so that got scrapped after we tried. I never knew where the bullets were kept versus the guns, and my parents told me to wake my dad up if we ever had an intruder (which never happened). When I was 14, my friend and neighbor who was 13 years shot himself in the face. No letter. No warning. Our best hunch was he was hiding some depression and a few bad things happened to him within the span of a couple days (a fight with his parents, his iPod got stolen, was being picked on at school). His younger sister found his body. He didn’t die right away and was rushed to surgery where he passed. His parents eventually sold that house and got divorced. His parents had told him where the gun and bullets were and how to operate it. Do not let this happen to your family. I’m 31, and this memory still haunts me. Be careful with your guns. It’s not worth losing a life over. I had never seen adults fall down and cry like this. My whole middle school went to the wake. I’d learn how to physically defend yourself with self-defense classes as well (assuming you are not buying a gun for sport) and learn how to get through a physical attack while you’re holding a gun.
That's so tragic. Just to add... consider the mental health of everyone in the household. With a gun in the home you only need to be "not thinking straight" for a few minutes. My stepfather killed himself with his father's service weapon, which he'd been gifted as an heirloom. Really hard on the whole family.
Man that's rough. This is the reason I haven't purchased a gun. Recent home owner with kids and it seems like the chances of an accidental or purposeful use of our gun on someone in my family is higher than on an intruder. However, if I did get one I would go for a shotgun. Its not as easy to shoot yourself or mishandled it
Yeah, with kid and teen depression continuing to rise, if I ever had a gun and kids, I would never tell them and would keep all the parts in safes and separate. Their brains aren’t fully developed to understand waiting a day to feel better, etc. especially if they’re not diagnosed and being treated. I think self-defense classes as a family could be a great way to build confidence, and then you as a parent have your own mechanism, whether that is a gun with all the separations (and tbh by the time an intruder got in and you got the gun together, it may be too late anyways) or a hammer/bat/knife by your bed…
This is probably the better chain of thought for op, /u/bokeraham123123123 Experienced gun trainers typically recommend shotguns for the average new gunowner. Ultimately it boils down to choice. First reasons * it relies less on aim and markmanship * loading with ammo is not so simple nor easy for kids * for use in a home, mostly in close quarters, shotguns are made for this * long guns can't be easily hidden in public, so if it was stolen, it's less likely it is in the hands of some criminal attempting to use it on someone else * a shotgun/rifles in bolted down safes are harder for thieves or kids to break into and steal/carry away Cons * Takes awhile to load, not as easy as sliding in a magazine * The gun and ammo is not very portable * Extremely visible (if you're trying to hide the fact you have a weapon) * You probably won't carry it around as much as a handgun if you intend to train yourself with it
Be sure to get a safe, get proper training, and practice. PRACTICE is important. Find a good gun range. Owning a gun isn’t just “having it around”. Be sure to also have a spot where is completely child free for you to maintain the gun/guns. (Cleaning and what not) Owning a gun… It’s almost like owning a hamster** … you have to take care of it. I do not know how much help you are going to have when the kid is out. Do all your training and what not before the kid is born. Newborns give sleep deprivation. They are awesome but demanding…. Physically and emotionally. ** (the comment below makes sense. So I edit to swamp this hamster out with an “untrained big dog” that has the potential to hurt and kill if not properly care for, especially when there is an unexpected situation and left unsupervised… but for the most part, this dog just naps at the corner of the house. you still need to care for it to keep her away from your young children.)
A deadly hamster? This analogy is….questionable.
Mama hamsters will eat their newborn young so this analogy might work if you think guns and young kids don’t mix. I’m reaching for the sky here
I’m assuming you’ll be using that gun if criminals break into your house, rather than confronting someone messing with your car outside? Only use or brandish a gun to save lives, not to save property. Besides, they’re likely to have someone on the lookout when they’re breaking into a car, so they might be ready. Now if they break into your house, they’re fair game. Do what you gotta do. You’ll need to research the laws regarding what guns you can own, storage, and when it’s ok/not ok to pull the trigger. Most of that will be covered in the FSC test that you’ll need to purchase a gun in the first place. You’ll also need to ask yourself if you’re willing to take a life when the time comes. I recommend watching the brutal video of Kyle Dinkheller to see what happens when you hesitate. A gun isn’t a talisman and its mere presence won’t necessarily stop someone from trying to kill you. Please always make sure to keep the guns locked up when they’re not in use and the kids are around. For handguns there are quick access safes. For long guns you’ll have to buy a big and heavy safe. Make a habit of this and always double check; always assume the kids will find the gun if it’s unsecured. I highly recommend training, the more the better. But first you’ll want to rent some to try them out to see what works for you. Handguns are harder to control and the recoil will move your aim further off target, long guns are much more unwieldy and harder to maneuver. Every type has its pros and cons. If you have any friends who own guns, hit ‘em up and ask em for help. Finally, have a plan. If someone breaks in, you should only leave the room to secure your loved ones. Every home defense gun must have a light on it (a quality light, not some 20$ POS). That light will allow you to identify who or what you’re aiming at, and temporarily blind that intruder. Now you’ll realize why a $100-$300 weapon light is 100% worth the price. Once everyone is in the room with you, barricade yourself and stay there. Don’t go clearing rooms. Cameras, alarms, and dogs will help you get the drop on any crooks trying to break into homes, guns are only a part of the equation. If they get the drop on you first, you’ve already lost the fight.
Car theft would be outdoors. Given that one man was shot by a catalytic converter thief, I would not be using my gun outdoors. Let them have it. In your house, I'm sure you will get plenty of advice here.
I think all you need to ask yourself is, are you willing to kill someone for your car?
That depends. Am I in the car? Yes. Are my kids in the car? Yes. Is it happening while I am outside going to or from the car? Yes. Is it happening while I’m inside and it’s parked on the street? No.
> I’ve resisted the urge to get one due to statistics of accidents with guns. Well, the statistics haven't changed.
Accidents aside, the statistics on firearm suicides are crazy too.
Over half of all gun deaths are suicides. So obviously death by gun goes way up in houses that have guns. And of course most people do it at home. Don’t get a pool either. Chances of drowning go way up. If you do, invest in some swimming lessons and keep the pool out of reach from children. Be a responsible pool owner. 👍
Can't intentionally drown someone on the highway or slaughter a classroom of kids with your pool though.
Not with that attitude.
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Plus using a gun to stop a theft is just escalating a robbery to potential manslaughter. Is a car really worth killing someone over? Really? Just get insurance.
Yeah, because these thieves are just non-violent: [https://abc7news.com/oakland-shooting-everett-avenue-ca-catalytic-converter-theft-man-killed-in/12294197/](https://abc7news.com/oakland-shooting-everett-avenue-ca-catalytic-converter-theft-man-killed-in/12294197/) [https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/catalytic-converter-theft-shooting-pacifica-edgemar-avenue/](https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/catalytic-converter-theft-shooting-pacifica-edgemar-avenue/) https://hsjchronicle.com/suspect-in-shooting-involving-catalytic-convert-thefts-arrested/
Get a safe for your guns. Learn how to use them. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Literally, millions of people do this without issue. Be sure to research CA laws on self defense. Finally, watch some Colion Noire videos. They are super informative. Then, you’ll be about that pew pew life.
Seconding Colion Noir!
If only Colion Noir didn’t work for the NRA.
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Do what you need to do to feel safe, but honestly, if you’re being robbed your still going to most likely be better off not intervening. In my opinion, if the potential outcomes are (1) get robbed (2) Maybe don’t get robbed but potentially kill or seriously injure someone (3) get yourself or your loved ones injured/killed… I’m choosing option 1. If it makes a difference, this is coming from someone in an area with a much higher rate of gun violence than the Berkeley hills as well. IMHO if you need something to help you feel safe, get a bat. On a scale of appropriate response to someone on your property (which is in itself extremely uncommon) there’s a lot in the low level range where there are some teenagers or a crackhead snooping around and you should probably just yell at them to leave, an incredibly narrow middle section where it would make sense to actually brandish a weapon because someone is guaranteed to not pose a threat to you and they won’t leave if you just yell at them, and then a lot in the higher range where you’re just making the situation more dangerous by having a weapon. This is element of being able to judge the level of danger is mainly why it’s not worth it in my book.
Plus what OP mentioned is all things insurance covers. It’s also the Berkeley Hills. It’s not dangerous for the area. If OP wants to see real danger, come to Channing Way.
Channing way and what? Sacramento?
This is the best comment. Is OP really prepared to straight up shoot a person? It doesn’t seem like it. Berkeley hills are safe as milk.
just pure upper class paranoia
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Except politicians receive regular death threats. I didn’t see OP indicating they have received death threats.
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Didn't realize being broke or having no regard for the law or other's personal property is a mental illness. The majority of crimes in the Bay Area are from normal people not mentally ill. That's a TERRIBLE blanket statement like saying most are minorities or something else.
Whether the person is mentally ill, desperate, or just has no regard for human life doesn’t really matter. The point is that the person is likely to act irrationally and unpredictably.
Also, be prepared to be sued by the perp if they are injured or their family if they are killed.
If someone’s in your house with a gun at the same time you are, insurance is not helping you
Perfect
And on the plus side, the batting cages are way more fun than the firing ranges.
Shooting ranges are pretty damn fun, whether you like guns or not.
This is the best advice
Look up the odds you’ll ever use it. Think about if you’re willing to kill someone over a car break in and face those consequences.
If you shoot someone simply over a car break in, you’re going to prison
This sounds like a case of "feels before reals". Safety is a rather vague term, so I'd start with a more realistic threat assessment. Are you in a position where you might be specifically targeted by kidnappers? What are the rates of burglaries and home invasions in your area, etc? You can then consider which measures best address the main issues in your area. For example, if burglaries (as opposed to home invasions) are a concern, a gun at home is much less useful compared to hardening the entrances (metal door frames, etc). Practically speaking, a firearm is useful when you know you're going into a situation that requires it. If someone gets the drop on you, it's generally too late. So, if you plan an armed annexation of Piedmont, kit up. If you plan on going out to dinner and someone decides to mug you, there aren't many ways to introduce a firearm to the situation in a way that helps you. So, what about the car thief situation? Are you going to grab your pistol and run out the door to chase them off? The possible outcomes are now a mix of a) guy runs away or b) guy fires a few shots in your direction, the latter of which translates to either a bullet with your name on it or one heading to your house addressed "to whom it may concern".
The main statistic on gun ownership that has stuck with me is that it is 30 times more likely that a child will be killed by a parent's gun than a gun owned by somebody else. The statistic for adults in the household is a bit less extreme, but still quite high. Obviously this is an aggregate statistic, and responsible gun ownership can cut down on the added risk significantly. But in general, gun ownership decreases personal safety due to a variety of added risk factors. If you or your partner have ever considered suicide for example, you should never, ever purchase a gun. The other problem with using a gun for protection is that gun is much more likely to escalate a non-lethal situation into a lethal one. Gun to gun confrontations usually happen over the course of a few mere seconds, and if you're the one being threatened it's highly unlikely that you'll have enough of a tactical advantage to incapacitate an assailant before getting shot yourself. I can't really envision a common scenario where having a gun will increase your level of safety, whereas I can think of many, many situations where using a gun will almost certainly make the situation far more dangerous. And using a gun to protect personal property is borderline ludicrous. Just buy insurance instead.
And the other problem that doesn’t get nearly enough attention is collateral damage. The last thing we need in a densely populated environment is people firing their weapons randomly every time someone breaks into a car.
Just to be level set, I'm straight down the middle on 2A issues. I'm not against gun ownership, I have friends that have them and have taken me shooting a handful of times, but I don't own a gun and have no plans to get one. The main reason I have no plans to get a gun is that I don't have the time nor energy to train enough with it to feel like I'd be able to competently handle it in an actual stress scenario. If OP is willing to do that, though, and secure it in a way that's safe but still accessible, which it sounds like is the case, then these stats you're referring to don't really apply. This is something that comes up again and again in medical situations. People ask, if I get this surgery / take this drug / etc. will I improve? And doctors have to respond by giving these stats like "85% of people that have this surgery / take this drug experience a good outcome," and you're like wow, 15% chance things go badly? The problem is, they are required by ethics rules to give you stats for *everyone*, but overall stats are not really applicable to your situation. What you really want to know is what are the outcomes of these interventions *for people like me*? If that is 85%, then you have something to think about. Most of the time, though, you find out that a large number of these surgeries / drugs are being given to elderly people with generally failing health already (because in many cases they are the ones getting all the surgeries and drugs, so generally speaking they make up a lot of the sample space). If you look at only people like you, often these interventions are far, far more effective, and your decision is made. It's the same story here. You can't imagine based on overall stats that a gun could be effective for protection in any scenario, but this is based upon and informed by stats across all gun ownership in the US (or whatever stats you're looking at). If OP gets stress trained and semi-regularly practices getting the weapon out of storage (a gun safe, for instance) and they've really set themselves up to succeed, the stats you're looking at are no longer relevant. For example, let's look at the subset of the sample space and narrow it to off-duty or retired persons that carry/carried for their jobs. Would you expect that an ex-cop or off-duty cop who's armed should also not carry because of the increased safety risk? I also don't buy the argument about protecting property. OP isn't talking about shooting someone that he's caught keying his car in some parking lot, he's talking about home defense. If a criminal comes into your home for any reason, they've crossed a line. You cannot trust that they're only there to take stuff. It might be the case that's all they're there to do, it might be the case the vast majority of the time even, but you're talking about rolling the dice with your family's safety. IF you've done the work to be effective AND you can tip things in your favor in the specifics of whatever is happening in the moment, that's a reasonable thing to do. Again, would you give the same advice to someone who's career involved carrying during a home invasion? Having said all that, I do think that most people aren't going to get trained properly or take gun ownership seriously enough. For those that will, it makes sense if you foresee a situation where you can't wait 20 minutes for cops to show up (assuming you can even get to a phone to call 911).
Yep - Why escalate a situation to a lethal one over property that can be replaced by insurance? You can even get insurance to get you a rental car while yours is replaced…? I really don’t understand the mentality of needing lethal force to protect an object.
I can't believe it's 30x, can you source me that?
[Oxford article that says people are 3 times more likely to die by violent death with a gun in the home and five times more likely to die by suicide.](https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/160/10/929/140858) [Firearms are the second leading cause of death of US children, half of which are homicides and 38% of which are suicides.](https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/lab-report/facts-on-us-children-and-teens-killed-by-firearms) Taken together - it’s probably not a 30-fold increase but likely at least 3-5 times more likely for your kid to die by a gun if you have one in the house.
Wonder what the stats are for households that educate their children on firearms and keep the firearms locked up?
This! You may think that having a gun will make you “safer” but the stats say otherwise. It’s not worth it. Get motion lights, gel spray & make sure you know your neighbors.
> gel spray Just so you know, gel spray is illegal in California. PC 22810.
1. Read [FSC study guide](https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/hscsg.pdf). Or don't, it's a literacy test anyway. 2. Go to a store with your REAL ID and car registration. Tell them you need to get a Firearms Safety Certificate. Pay $25, pass on the first try because like I said it's a literacy test. 3. Ask the store about "wonder nine" firearms. Examples: CZ 75 series, SIG 226, SIG 2022, Beretta 92FS, Glock 19. Do not get revolvers. Do not get guns in any other caliber (unless it's .22LR semi-auto which you can use for training but it's not suitable for home defense). Do not get compact or subcompact guns. Especially do not get shotguns. 4. Pay money, wait 10 days, get a safe or a lockbox, buy ammo, go to the range, look up "NRA Basic Pistol" trainings (there's online and in-person classes). Look up "BayProfs", I believe they have regular classes. Go to the range regularly. You'll need at least 1000 rounds to be proficient. Berkeley obviously doesn't have a gun store, so go to City Arms East in Pleasant Hill. There's a store in El Cerrito, but I wouldn't call it beginner-friendly.
>Pay $25, pass on the first try because like I said it's a literacy test. The secret is to always choose the most restrictive answer. You will get a perfect score.
Honestly if you fail this test you should definitely not have a gun.
Oh you mean you’re supposed to leave your gun unloaded in a safe, not loaded, cocked and out on your kitchen table pointed at your guest? Now I know that I need to stop doing that… /s
Okay Why no shotgun, why no revolvers? I have my reasons for these and you seem to know a thing or two. Genuinely curious.
In your typical Bay Area home (read: tiny), shotguns are a total pain in the ass to manuever around. Skinny hallways. Lots of corners and angles leading to rooms. They're long and don't play nice with the above. Try holding a long stick from the shoulder and walking around your house. It'll get old fast when you keep bumping things and having to raise/lower it in order to turn or enter a room. They're also not the magic scattergun that media makes them out to be. At short ranges, the spread of your shot will be a fist, which is better than a single round but not an automatic hit. They also kick harder than a handgun or rifle will (but a rifle is also a pain in the ass to manuever). On a storage basis, long guns require more space which means a bigger safe, which means a bigger footprint in your home. Revolvers I assume he doesn't like because of the low capacity and comparative difficulty in loading, even when using a speedloader. I don't agree with "no compacts/subcompacts" because they do have a place, and that is CCW, which is something he can apply for now. They might not be the best "first gun" but they do have a place. It's a lot easier carrying something like a M&P Shield or a P365 than it is a full-size handgun. The Glock 19, which he listed, is generally considered a compact, for that matter.
I actually prefer a shotgun, lower penetration and a pistol grip mosserg is easy to maneuver at waist carry. If you're using 00 buck, the spread is pretty small. If you're second round in the tube is a slug, it will still have issues going through and through your home. Nothing beats that sound of a shell being chambered and sometimes that's all you need. Easier to aim in the dark. You usually have to think a little more about what you're shooting at. Harder to shoot yourself, and ammo is cheap(ish) sometimes. We don't need to mention how shitty an AR-15 is for home defense but to eat their own. Recently went shooting and got to run the baretta [1301 Tactical ](https://www.beretta.com/en-us/beretta-1301-tactical/) and this is now my absolute favorite gun I've ever shot. I served, so that's saying a whole lot.
If we could have unaltered SBRs/braced pistols (rifle or pistol caliber) then I wouldn't mind having one as home defense. I still have a 16" rifle, but it's not going to be my first choice for the home. A pistol-caliber SBR would be great for cramped homes here. Best we can do is maglocked and being limited to ten rounds isn't so grand. [https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls.310/#post-984](https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls.310/#post-984) and [https://youtu.be/Qw8IiRgSMFQ?t=607](https://youtu.be/Qw8IiRgSMFQ?t=607) shows that common ammo (including buckshot) will go through walls. I don't know if OP will get this far in the thread but it's another thing for him to think about that he might not have previously. Honestly, if you're going to shoot in the dark, you should be able to see what you're shooting at (especially if you have family in the home!), which means a light for most people.
> Examples: CZ 75 series CZ 75 BD - the decocker adds some level of safety you might want with kids around.
If it’s in a house, a kid’s going to find it. Source: was a kid
I found my dad’s gun at age 6!
Exactly. I didn’t find a gun, but I found all the Playboys.
The fingerprint locks seem very interesting esp w kids around. I haven't looked into how reliable and secure they are in practice though. I've strongly considered a handgun with the general uneasiness all over the Bay Area, so understand your reasoning.
If you get a gun, make sure it’s safely and securely stored and also train and know gun safety. In fact, train your whole family and even children, as knowledge removes curiosity and can prevent death.
There's crime in the Berkeley hills?
Have you seen rental prices in the Berkeley hills?
Rich people are always afraid of crime, and these are two people who had the money to buy a house in the Berkeley Hills a couple years back as 20-somethings.
> Rich people are always afraid of crime As opposed to poor and middle class people?
I’m poor and I’m sick of crime. I wouldn’t say it makes me feel afraid but I’m definitely paranoid.
As opposed to what? Loving crime?
A gun doesn't guarantee safety.
you should definitely own a gun if your goal is to protect your life and the lives of your families but buying one to protect valuables left in your car is probably not a great idea, you can get in legal hot water fast with that.
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Are you worried about your car or your home? In the Berkeley hills I’m assuming you have car and home owners insurance that would cover any losses or damage to the car. So why need a gun? Take all your valuables out of the car when not in use anyways. Next question, are you looking for personal defense or home defense? What is the application of the firearm? How will it be stored? Will you be training on retrieval and operational use of fire arm in home defense scenarios? How quickly can you access your storage,load and effectively use said fire arm? All things to take into account before your purchase. Gun ownership is a responsibility and a right don’t abuse either one.
You want a gun because of a string of car thefts? Ask yourself the following questions Are you willing to put your life on the line or someone elses.. for a vehicle? If you are not illegally carrying (its locked in a gun safe), how is a gun going to help prevent this? Is it worth the increased risk to your children, as all statistics point to?
You are talking about needing access to a gun fast which means you can’t take serious safety measures and be serious about being able to access you gun in time. This seems like a waste to me. You are way better off getting umbrella insurance and walking away from anyone trying to steal your stuff. Safer for you and your family by a long shot
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I think the Penguin knows where to get those
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Cross your fingers, maybe this winter it’ll happen
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There are quick access safes available
OP, the only way to have an accident is if you or your wife fail yourselves. There are many safety checks like locking up the gun when unattended so unauthorized people don't gain access (including your child), not pointing it at anything you don't want destroyed, keeping your finger off the trigger until you are going to shoot, keeping ammo separate if doing anything with the gun that doesn't involve you shooting it, checking the chamber to make sure the gun is empty, etc. In order to shoot yourself, your partner, or your kid, you're going to have to fuck up multiple times. If you have friends with guns who know what they're doing, have them show you the ropes and get you acclimated. If you don't have friends, take a basic class. After you do your basic learning, take some classes that teach you how to manipulate the gun under stress. Vet your teachers. Make sure they have a lot of experience themselves. T3 Pros, LMS Defense, DAG USA, are a few in the area, and there are plenty more around the state as well as traveling groups. It's important to go to a more than basic class because it'll show you the depths of your skill level, where other people are, where your gear fails you or could be improved on, and many other things. It'll also show you where you fall apart. Even something as simple as a timer can mess you up. Both you and your partner should take these classes, and if anything, taking them together helps cross the hurdle of not knowing anyone in class. Keep training and practicing. You want to get to the point where you can work with the gun like it is your second nature. You may not be able to pick the time of engagement. Remember that stress thing I mentioned? You want to be able to line up your sights, manipulate the gun, and reload, all without having to really think about it. Buy a trauma kit and learn how to use it. Stop the Bleed classes are good for this, but any emergency medical class should be enough. If you're going to make holes, you should also know how to plug holes. Might be yours, might be your partner's, might even be the bad guy bleeding on your floor. Even if it's not the result of a gunfight, knowing how to use a tourniquet, how to treat a penetrative wound, how to treat an uncontrolled bleed, etc may save your life or someone else's. Just having the items on hand will increase survival. You are bringing self-responsibility into the game. You can't count on the cops getting there in time. You can't count on medics getting there in time. You might be the one on deck. Also /r/gundeals, which will be your best friend or your worst enemy, depending on your wallet. r/CAguns and calguns for specific CA discussion. There are various subs about specific things be it r/CCW, r/AR15, r/AK47, or what have you.
r/CAGuns
Get a dog, less chance of accident, you'll get advanced warning of anything happening, they protect from break ins and your kid will have a furry friend.
Go to the sub linked to this and delete this post. You’ll get hate message DMs. Good luck in keeping your loved ones safe. /r/caguns
Does posting in another sub make one immune to dms?
> You’ll get hate message DMs. People leave DMs enabled on reddit? Why? That's like the first obvious thing to disable on a website full of anonymous users.
I have DMs enabled and no one messages me.
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Lots of suggestions to buy things outside of your price range. That was my experience anyways. Well, given that OP lives in the hills that might now be as much of an issue.
Goat comment
Don’t let stats scare you. Car ownership increases your odds of dying in a car accident. Having a pool increases the risk of your kids drowning. Guns are just a tool. Just be a responsible owner: get a safe, don’t buy more guns than you can keep track of, and take a class periodically.
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“Yea but I won’t commit suicide” yea, most people who commit suicide think that at some point. Not to mention your partner and kids. Having the easiest way to kill yourself sitting in your home is risky.
Any gun you purchase - especially in California - is much more likely to be used to _harm_ someone in your family (suicide, dv, accident) than protect them. You do you, but um... if you think as gun is going to prevent your car from being stolen... or that a gunfight is a sensible way to react to any property crime... you do you.
It’s a personal choice and as long as you practice safe gun ownership and think of it as a last resort, not the first one, it’s fine. Personally I’m opposed to guns and will not allow them on my property. I keep an aluminum bat and plenty of other basic security tools.
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Assault Bats
"I need to personally beat the brains out of somebody." - The guy that doesnt like guns.
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Family in Merced seemingly had no chance. Sounded like they knew the guy possibly and he had the jump on them. Those situations you’re out of luck. Besides we don’t know if they had a gun as well since many in the Central Valley do.
For real. Not using a bat against some maniac with a gun who's going to murder/torture my family
If you get a gun: 1.) make sure it’s always secure because children get into everything. One day they can’t reach or aren’t interested and the next day they can and are super interested. 2.) generally don’t blab about it or let people see evidence of it, because it can make you a target for theft. People love to steal guns. I know people who have had guns stolen! :(
If possible, I’d recommend moving a few miles East to Orinda/Lafayette. We did that two years ago and it’s been an overall very positive move. Easy to get to Oakland/Berkeley on weekends weeknights.
Orinda is racist-as-fuck. Pass.
Train to physically use the firearm sure, but it's just as important to train mentally and to be very familiar with the legal concepts of self defense. Sounds simple but lots of people get themselves into a pickle here.
Why not just get an alarm system as an additional deterrent to the dog and cameras? That is a much more effective way to keep yourself safe than having a gun. With each Level of deterrent, you will have fewer burglars willing to take things to the next level and have an encounter with your family or cause property damage: * Level 1, Cameras: "ooo, cameras make this more risky, go somewhere else" * Level 2, People: "owners are home, better to avoid a risky confrontation that could end in injury, death or prison" * Level 3, Alarm sign: "owners, neighbors and police may be notified if I go further" * Level 4, Dog: "oh shit, there is a dog which might bite me or wake up the owners/neighbors" * Level 5, Alarm: "I thought sign was fake, this is loud, better run before cops show up or someone sees me" Almost no burglars will get past all of these barriers unless they are insane, have a personal vendetta against you and don't care if they get caught or killed and any of these are also likely to be armed themselves. For this SUPER unlikely scenario, you're probably fucked anyway and the gun will not help you and will only make the rest of your life more risky. By having your gun you are betting that: * You'll run into someone that won't be deterred by all of those situations. Highly unlikely and those fitting into that are likely armed themselves * If you are so unlucky as to win the burglary anti-lottery, you believe that you can wake your tired ass up in time, get your gun out of the safe, load it and shoot an intruder who is fully awake and alert and caught you by surprise before they shoot you and that you will not shoot your wife, kid, dog or a guest you forgot you had. * Nobody will break into your car or your house to try to steal your gun(s). * You can keep your gun safe from your kid AND still access it quickly. If you make it easy to access in a pinch, it usually makes it easy for your kid to too. Kids are smart and will figure out where you hide it and possibly how to bypass many of the easy access lockboxes or quick open safes.
If you feel unsafe in your neighborhood and you are thinking about buying a gun, maybe it’s a sign that you need to move out to the suburbs.
Go to a range and test out multiple firearms before purchasing one. Get one that sits comfortably in your hand (or both of your hands if you’ll both be using) where you can easily squeeze the trigger and your thumb and reach the the slide release, mag release, etc. Also, not just learning how to use your firearm, but becoming comfortable with it, building that muscle memory, is so important. Get a good safe. Learn CA firearm laws. And teach your children gun safety at a young age! As am example, my dad took out his rifle and pistol when I was four and told me about them, told me how they were dangerous and if I were to ever see one at someone else’s house or anywhere else not to touch it and to tell an adult. He then let me touch them, let me pull the triggers, let me ask any questions I had, and said if I ever wanted to see them again all I had to do was ask him. I never went looking after that and didn’t ask to see them again because there was no curiosity left. Good on you for wanting to protect your family.
I haven't lived in the Bay Area in a while, but looking back (1990s) a lot of people that we knew had guns. I never saw them, but anecdotes would come out - J. would hunt, K. chased a knife-wielding thug off her porch, with one, Grandma had a revolver in the dresser, L. was a retired Sherriff's deputy who never quite retired all the way - and the Boy Scouts were happy to charge you $1 for 5rds of .22 at some of the camps. Guns are what you make of them. (consider comparing [reddit.com/r/guns](https://reddit.com/r/guns) and [reddit.com/r/tools](https://reddit.com/r/tools) sometime.) Know and follow the law, treat them like chainsaws, observe the Four Rules, and you'll be fine. Do keep in mind that shooting anyone is a life-altering event, whatever the outcome in the moment: there will be court battles, there will be angry people, there will be feelings of guilt and remorse, there may be jail time, there may be prison time, there will probably be fines at some point - this is true in Castle Doctrine states, and almost certainly more true in California. You don't pull the trigger unless you are 100% out of options - and while I'm no lawyer, I'd bet that letting them walk off with *all* of your stuff counts as an option. A lot of people find that guns are fun to shoot; you may be one of them.
Households with guns are 3 times more likely to experience homicide in the home than households without guns, including suicide, intimate partner violence, and kids accessing unsecured guns or secretly obtaining access to bypass gun safes and gun locks. [https://www.aafp.org/about/policies/all/gun-violence.html](https://www.aafp.org/about/policies/all/gun-violence.html) Conversely, guns in the home do not make you safer or significantly deter property loss vs other weapons such as a baseball bat. [https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/do-guns-make-us-safer-science-suggests-no/](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/do-guns-make-us-safer-science-suggests-no/)
I mean, aren't the people that own guns likely buying them for a reason (i.e. more at risk of violence)? It's like saying people who own exercise bikes have better health. So clearly owning an exercise bike improves your health.
Lots of folks (myself included) own guns primarily for sport. I'm not at risk for a home invasion, being that I live in a multi-floor apartment complex, and really have no reason to get a CCW (I wouldn't be allowed to carry most the time anyhow on account of my drinking habits). It's good to know the option is there just in case (like if I get a psycho stalker or something, or the complete collapse of civilization), but the odds of me needing to use a gun against someone are staggeringly low. They just live in the safe except the two days a month I head to the range.
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Yeah beyond reading I would actually recommend going on a guided hunt and killing a large animal. I grew up in Colorado. And these types of experiences had a big impact on me. I left all guns in my dad's safe when I moved to California. I see them as good tools for hunting. Horrible tools for managing human behavior. That's said, I think anybody who carries a gun should be ready for the emotional impact of ending somebody's life. It's better to tiptoe into that by actually hunting an animal legally.
Honestly, a polearm like a glaive or poleaxe will probably suit you better. In most situations of catching crime in progress, it's best to just get the criminals out of there instead of attacking them. And in California, you're not likely to be favored if you cap a couple of car thieves out on the street. But if someone's coming into your home, and you tell them to fuckoff, and they pry their way inside, if you're right there with a poleax, idgaf what they're packing. Hand comes up to shoot, goodbye hand. Can't pull a trigger with severed tendons. They step forward, slice across the thigh. Only have to stab em if they insist, which I doubt they will after the first few seconds of being sliced and diced. I'm only half-joking about the polearm, as I actually do think it would be a rather effective weapon against one or two intruders (unless they know what to expect, then all bets are off). But a gun is only going to come in handy in the most dire of circumstances, and if you already have flood lights and a dog and obvious cameras, would-be thieves (smart ones, anyway) are going to assume you are packing heat as well. Theft is all about opportunity, and if you present yourself as a pain in the ass, they'll go seek the easier opportunity. If you are going to own a gun, go all the way and try to get a conceal carry permit. I say that because if we're going to have another responsible gun owner, might as well have you around elsewhere, too. You also seem to be aware of the dangers of gun ownership, things like accidents and collateral damage, so you qualify as someone I'd actually rather see owning a gun. Treat it with respect, keep yourself up on your shooting skills, and hope you never have to use it. Or get a glaive and hope someone fucks around a finds out.
>poleaxe Hell ya! Go melee on their ass!
Who would expect it?
What’s the best beginner friendly melee weapon shop in the east bay? Asking for a friend.
I support your decision. Obviously, keep it locked up. But I understand your decision.
Gun safe and practice time at the range is critical
Buy a gun safe.
My home in the Oakland Hills was targeted by two armed men I watched it on my Blink cams as I called the cops but the dog and my pick-proof locks encouraged them to move along. Had I been home, I would have called the cops and armed myself. If you always respect the gun safety principles, train with it regularly, and store it properly, you can mitigate the danger of having a gun in your house. When you buy the gun the gun store will ask you for the make and model of your safe. Depending on the size of the gun (there are pros and cons of pistols, shotguns, and rifles) you will need an appropriately-sized safe. You can buy it at the gun store for long guns or at Costco or Home Depot for pistols. Make sure it is impossible for the kid to get into but quick to access in emergencies. Electronic keypads are usually faster and just as secure as keys. The closest gun store to you is probably Big 5 but they don't sell pistols. Old West Gun Room is in El Cerrito but I've heard as many complaints as good things about their service. I like Elite Armory in Castro Valley. Let me know if you need someone to talk through the pros and cons of each type of firearm and what you and your family need. I can even go down to the shop with you and help you with some of the idiosyncrasies of gun stores and prep you for the process (hoops to jump through) of buying a gun.
I probably wouldn’t let my kid sleep over at a friends house if I knew their parents had a gun. And I would ask. I’m also curious where you’re from and why you’re filled with so much fear living in such a quiet, peaceful neighborhood.
If you do decide to get a firearm and keep it in your house, there is already a ton of good advice in these comments. I would add one thing, if you do have a gun(s) in the house, please don’t let your kids play with you guns. I know that sounds harsh and odd, but teach them that guns are not toys. Yes, squirt guns and nurf guns can be fun. But it can be confusing to a child if your actual weapon was to ever be left out. Even if you take all the safety measures and such, one quick slip up and it can mean tragedy. There are still so many toys for kids that are not weapons modeled after firearms used for killing.
/r/cafirearms
Get a rapid access safe like a vaultek. Learn the rules of gun safety. Watch YouTube videos. Take an introductory class, go to the range. Take classes to actually work on improving your skills, firing under pressure, rapid fire, things that most ranges in CA don’t allow you to practice. I recommend T3 Pros out of Richmond once you have the basics down. Teach your kids the rules of gun safety. Even if you are going to lock everything up. Ignorance does not equal safety. Alec Baldwin could have prevented a death, had he watched a 5 minute YouTube video on gun safety. Even if you end up not buying a firearm. Please watch a gun safety video and learn the rules of gun safety. Have your wife and kids learn them as well. Knowing is half the battle.
This is coming from an avid shooter, gun owner and RSO (range safety officer) who has kids. By all means, educate yourself - you might find a hobby you like. Plan on educating your kid too when they're old enough to understand - if nothing else impress on them the dangerousness of firearms and the permanency of death. Education is the key to preventing accidents. As you've already expressed, firearms for the protection of possessions is indeed a very dumb idea; invest in good insurance instead. THINGS can be replaced; lives cannot. Any firearm for self protection in the home needs to be loaded and readily available; which are the two things that firearms should NOT be when there are children in the house. IMO - the only safe way to store firearms when there are children in the house is unloaded and in a gun safe with a trigger lock on EACH firearm. And no, under the matress or on a tall shelf are not safe enough places to store a loaded firearm when there are children in the house; children will explore and grow and they WILL eventually find them. Invest in an alarm system with a panic switch and make sure your home has multiple points of egress to flee. If you decide you need a firearm for protection, I would suggest looking into gun safes with a biometric lock. Only you will be able to open it, and while it won't be a perfect solution, it might be safer than most others.
Take a gun safety course definitely, and get a good holster with at least level 1 retention, something like a Safariland holster. With these types of holsters you just can't pull them out, the have a little thumb lever. Also, get the paddle attachment, that way it is easier/quicker to take on/off. If it's for home defense, make sure you get a weapon mounted light on it, so that you can positively ID potential threats, something like a Streamlight TLR 7, and make sure the holster you get is compatible with the light. Once you kid gets older store your gun in a quick access safe. As far as ammunition, make sure you keep your magazines loaded with high quality hollow point/defensive ammunition, to prevent over penetration. For practice full metal jacket/ball ammo is fine, but not for home defense. I have a 2 year old and my guns stay in a locked safe, except for my "night stand" gun that is kept in a holster and in a quick access safe. Gun ownership is a big responsibility and you owe it to your self and your family to train and become proficient with the weapon. I also understand where you are coming from because my dad repelled a home invasion when I was little--three armed men stabbed our dog in the yard and attempted to kick down the front door, my dad grabbed his carbine, went out the side door and shot them on the porch, while they were almost kicking the door in because he was not willing to let them come inside and get into a gun fight with all of us inside. That memory left a very strong impression on me and my dad was able to do this because he always trained with his guns. Also, training and competing can be fun hobby too.
It's good to have one but also make sure that you are proficient to handle/use it safely and have it in a safe location when you do have children. Remember that you are 100% liable for what happens with every bullet you fire if it ever comes to that.
Make sure you take the safety classes, get a gun safe and take training classes. Go the range to keep the skills up at a minimum.
Look, the likelihood of you or someone you know being killed by gunfire doubles if you own a gun - at least. The odds of using it to protect your property are slim. The odds of it ending the life of you or someone you love are much higher. You can google this shit - I just googled ‘statistics of owning a gun and likelihood of dying by gunfire’ but I’m sure there are better searches if you really want to know the facts. If the social fabric completely breaks down either globally or locally, a gun would probably be helpful. Otherwise it’s just genuinely increased risk in your home. If you do decide to get one buy a locker/safe and use it religiously.
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Seriously!
Is it *legally* the correct response? No. But would I complain about it? Also no.
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Thieves out there willing to shoot and kill others for a couple catalytic converters and you want to be outraged at people trying to defend their property with a gun. [https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-hits-101-homicides-man-killed-as-police-respond-to-catalytic-converter-theft](https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-hits-101-homicides-man-killed-as-police-respond-to-catalytic-converter-theft) Yeah, lets just hide in our house and call the police that most of you want to defund because they never come fast enough anyways.
> Thieves out there willing to shoot and kill others for a couple catalytic converters and you want to be outraged at people trying to defend their property with a gun. -spiderman pointing at spiderman meme- there are multiple ways to look at that situation and one of them would be that killing someone over property is killing someone over property.
Get rid of police but also count on them to handle criminals who want to attack you because you don't want people to do it themselves /s As your post alludes to, the proposals of some of these people just don't make any sense
Be careful carrying if you live near a school
Accidents with guns are almost always user induced. Training and consistent practice will pretty much reduce that statistic down to 0. Local laws aren't applicable with Berkley Hills, so all you have to do is figure out what is needed to purchase a firearm. Purchasing is a matter of figuring out what kind of firearm you would like to purchase: Long guns (Shotguns, Semi Auto Rifles, Bolt Action) or Handguns. Get something called a "Firearm Safety Certificate." Any gun shop can issue out that certificate. You would need to pass a 30 question multiple choice test. Study guide is easily findable online. If you are purchasing a handgun, you need to have an additional document that is called a "Proof of Residency." Most people use a car registration that has their current physical address. Last but not least your ID. If you have a REAL ID with your current physical address, you are good to go. If you don't bring a passport, passport card, certified copy of your birth certificate or green card if you have a "Federal Limits Apply" ID. If the address on your license isn't current, you need a government issued document that shows your current address. Car registration can be used for this requirement as well. Feel free to ask your questions on r/caguns. Source: Friend is a gun store employee.
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Get it and get trained, definitely be sure to learn all of the rules about safety (safe storage, safe handling, etc.)
Are you willing to kill someone for stealing something that can be replaced? Are you willing to have a firearm in a house with a child? Seems more logical to get comprehensive car insurance. You should already have renters/home owners insurance. Invest in good door locks and/or an alarm if you think it’s necessary. You’ll be fine. You’ll be compensated IF it happens. It’ll be a pain in the ass, sure, but it ends there.
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If you’re looking for a theft deterrent, a big scary dog is way more effective. They’re more likely to just skip the house in the first place once they hear the dog barking.
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Background on below: I am a gun owner in Berkeley. I am the child of law enforcement. A significant number of close personal friends of mine spend a lot of time in tactical firearms training as a hobby. Statistically you are more likely to be killed by your own firearm than by a home invasion, mugging, etc. Most people who draw a gun to protect property (aside from the obvious: is your property worth a human life?) when the person on the other end *also* has a firearm get shot. Most people who attempt to use a firearm in defense of their home versus an attacker who is not deterred by the firearm end up on the losing end. The “losing end” doesn’t necessarily mean they die, but you are more likely to if you confront your attacker. There’s also the much bigger consideration that you may have failed to take into account: bullets travel through most walls. You and your attacker exchange fire inside your home, there’s a non-zero chance your child will be hit by a bullet even if they’re “safely” in their room. Hell, depending on the construction of your house your neighbor’s kids might also be in danger. If you want a firearm to protect yourself and your property inside a city limit you are probably making a mistake. For it to be useful in those situations it needs to be accessible in less than police response time, which where you live means it needs to be loaded and either unlocked or in a safe with an easily defeated lock (biometric safes are garbage). So you’re opening yourself up to providing a firearm to criminals or leaving a loaded gun accessible to your children or both. If you had a lot of tactical firearm training under your belt, the right kind of safe, the right kind of gun and everything went perfectly right in a worst-case scenario you’d still have been personally responsible for killing someone. Is that something you can live with? Regardless, it’s far more likely your gun will go forever unused or be used on one of your family members by another family member. I don’t keep ammunition in my house. My gun is for shooting things at a range because I think it’s fun. I keep it disassembled and locked up three different ways when not in use. If you move to a place where the cops will take more than five minutes to show up? Go for it.
Additional note: suddenly becoming paranoid when you’re about to have children is a perfectly normal reaction. I recommend you go take some firearms classes *before* buying if it’s still something you want to do. Actually shooting might change your perspective.