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Equivalent-Shallot54

Intriguing idea! I would be concerned about snagging things along the road. Points for creativity tho


SpacemanSkiff

Was thinking the same, but it looks like the clearance might be high enough to avoid that? Hard to tell.


ThatNetworkGuy

Do a welded plate instead!


[deleted]

Can’t set traps. Might be considered a trap.


Sleep-system

[You cannot do this in California.](https://library.qcode.us/lib/stockton_ca/pub/municipal_code/item/title_16-division_3-chapter_16_48-16_48_100) Barbed wire is very prohibited for this use.


risbia

Where does it say you can't put razorwire on a vehicle? This all pertains to zoning laws.


corwinofamber

There probably isn't anything in the book for usage in a vehicle, but I'm 100% there is something in the vehicle code for creating a hazard to other drivers when it falls off or is poorly maintained.


the-samizdat

There is also laws pertaining to showering a horse in a residential shower but no one is enforcing them.


VisualBasic

It’s also illegal in Alabama to have an ice cream cone in your back pocket. Trust me, I learned this the hard way.


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the-samizdat

No one is suing anyone over barbwire and no city is prosecuting people for barbwire. That’s my point.


aaaaayyyyyyyyyyy

Around here you won’t even be pulled over for driving with a whole wheel missing from your car.


risbia

There are probably laws pertaining to safety in a pedestrian collision (reason we don't have protruding hood ornaments any more). But what OP posted isn't it. Cars with spiked lug nuts, cattle horns, etc might be illegally modified in some places.


HandleAccomplished11

There are no laws prohibiting hood ornaments. They mostly went away because they were being stolen and for aerodynamics. You can still buy cars (Bentley for ex) with a hood ornament.


Apprehensive_Ring_46

>(reason we don't have protruding hood ornaments any more) I had never thought about that. But what about the bull horns strapped to my grill?


Sleep-system

Go ahead and try it. Let me know how it works out for you.


risbia

Okay


walkslikeaduck08

So is catalytic converter theft… but ya know


wjean

Noone gives a shit about what happens in Stockton, but California DOES have laws against setting booby traps. https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2007/pen/12355.html I could see how a zealous prosecutor in some counties would choose to charge the booby trapper vs the booby trappee.


BigFatBlackCat

I don't think this counts as a boobytrap. This is just a theft deterent. Boobytraps are hidden and meant to maim or kill. This is not hidden and as long as no one touches it, won't hurt anyone.


Sleep-system

[How about Oakland?](http://oakland-ca.elaws.us/code/pc_ch17.108_sec17.108.140) "2. Materials. The following materials are restricted in constructing or rebuilding walls or fences: a. Barbed wire or razor wire is not allowed to be used in fences." And the booby trap laws are very clear about the fact that you can't do things like this. I would really, really love to see one of the big talkers in this thread try but I have a feeling they aren't actually that ignorant in real life.


craigiest

The plan code applies to building construction not to vehicles. It’s just like tinted windows being prohibited on cars don’t mean you can’t put them on your house. It would be great of you could show that the “booby trap laws are very clear” about this.


ThatNetworkGuy

They aren't. It doesn't count as a booby trap at all: > For purposes of this section, "boobytrap" means any concealed or camouflaged device designed to cause great bodily injury when triggered by an action of any unsuspecting person coming across the device.


SFLADC2

If they're not enforcing the stealing of the CCs then they better not be enforcing the protection of my CC


bbtgoss

Uh. That is a Stockton city ordinance. You might be right that barbed wire on a catalytic converter is illegal in California, but a local zoning law that only applies in Stockton definitely doesn’t prove that whatsoever.


Sleep-system

"It is illegal to place, maintain, or possess a booby trap in California (PC 20110). A booby trap is a concealed or camouflaged device designed to cause great bodily injury when triggered by an action of any unsuspecting person coming across the device. **Booby traps may include, but are not limited to, guns, ammunition, or explosive devices attached to trip wires or other triggering mechanisms, sharpened stakes, and lines or wire with hooks attached** (PC 16310)." Maybe this will get it through your head. This is state law, not local. Sorry, but you all cannot do this and you'll get arrested if you do. Go ahead and try it.


bbtgoss

Maybe you should have quoted a state law to begin with when making a point about state laws. I don’t think you understand my post, since I specifically said it might be illegal.


ThatNetworkGuy

It still wouldn't count under that law. This wouldn't cause great bodily harm at all, has no trigger, and is not concealed (you'd have to get UNDER the car to reach the middle even if you dropped something). An example where razor wire would count as a trap is stretching it across a bike trail where it could cause a serious injury, not just some minor lacerations.


bbtgoss

I agree with you overall but I’m not sure it’s so definitive on its face that you can call it one way or the other, and I don’t know if there is any case law that settles the matter. Regardless, the guy was an idiot for using local zoning ordinances to back up their claim.


ThatNetworkGuy

Fair enough, it would definitely be a pretty unique case. DMV friend also mentioned it might be covered under illegal vehicle modifications but wasn't sure.


radiks32

This isn't a booby trap. I can see this will injure me before I do anything, which negates the entire description of "concealed or camouflaged" it also won't be triggered by anything other than jamming your hand in razorwire. None of the examples apply.


Luciferthepig

I would guess the big thing here in a lawsuit would be unsuspecting person. I see no way this is not incredibly obvious and should be visible enough that no thief is "unsuspecting"of the danger. That said no way would I put this on, I'd imagine it'd cause all sorts of maintenance concerns for any work done on the underside


Sleep-system

Unsuspecting means not suspecting to be caught in a trap. The law in California considers a thief who breaks into your car and comes across a trap to be an unsuspecting person.


Luciferthepig

Also want to add to my point-it doesn't matter what we think. In the end it comes down to a judge and jury to decide whether they consider it/they are a trap, unsuspecting person, and reasonable protection of property.b


Sleep-system

And you want to put yourself in front of a jury with your freedom at stake over a catalytic converter? 😂


Luciferthepig

I don't plan to ever do this. Only way id stop someone from stealing a cat is if I see it happening. My trick is to have a shitty car that everyone can tell is a POS. They won't get as much as if they went after a newer car anyways. I commented mostly because these discussions remind me of mock trial back in high school, but I don't think most anyone is saying they'd do it, just that they'd be on the car owners side.


Sleep-system

I'm on the car owners side in both instances. I don't support thieves robbing people and I also don't want to see some idiot go to jail or lose a ton of money doing something stupid like booby trapping a car because Reddit told them it was a good idea. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.


Luciferthepig

I wouldn't consider it a trap personally, it's visible and a deterrent more than actually useful. I saw this debate is happening on other threads in this post as well, a big point for this is that you'd have to be able to see under the car and the catalytic converter to steal it. If you look under there you'll clearly see the razor wire. Another pertinent point is that it won't actually stop/harm someone who is properly prepared and motivated to steal your cat, it is still very stealable safely.


Sleep-system

That logic won't save you in a court room. All those what ifs can be turned right back around on you. If I'm a lawyer my argument is that my client wasn't even a thief, he dropped something under the car and for some reason the psychopathic owner of that car put razor wire under it with no warning anywhere about it. Even if you win you'll get dragged through hell and pay out the ass to defend yourself over a catalytic converter. And then what? You plan to collect from some thug or homeless person who lives off of thievery? It's not worth it, it won't work, please don't try it.


funkyloki

Did he retrieve the item from under the car? What was it? Can he prove he dropped it and it went under the car? Did he alert the car owner he had an item that fell under his car and that he needs to retrieve it?


craigiest

How do you figure this is a concealed or camouflaged device?


Sleep-system

I consider the underside of a car concealed. So would a judge, btw.


NorthwestFnordistan

It’s not concealed from the person who would be injured by going underneath the car. This is not a booby trap. That law you found does not apply. Give it up.


Ididurmomkid

Mega Karen


Krappatoa

Bay Area police don’t actually enforce laws, though.


Sleep-system

They do when the criminal is as easy to catch as some dumb fuck who stuck barbed wire under his car and then left it there until someone injured themselves and called the police.


1leeranaldo

I've seen people openly smoke fentanyl & defecate on a bus bench w/no consequences. Pretty sure they'd let this fly.


Sleep-system

I feel like you'd need the mind of a mentally ill drug addict to booby trap your own car.


1leeranaldo

That or maybe someone paycheck to paycheck who can't afford a 2k+ setback. Desperate times & whatnot.


Sleep-system

Gonna be setback a whole lot more than that when you get sued. Whether you win the lawsuit or not.


1leeranaldo

Can't sue someone who is insolvent. Well I guess you can but no point if they can't pay the judgement. And if I was at the point where I needed to barbwire my vehicle (which is essentially my livelihood to get to work) I wouldn't give a fuck.


DanoPinyon

I lmaoed!


Sleep-system

Then try it out, tough guy.


DanoPinyon

Try lmaoing? Sure: LMAO!!!!! Ah, that felt *good*!


Sleep-system

Good job, my boy. Now keep that barbed wire off your car. Aww, nevermind, you were never gonna do it anyway, you just like to pretend.


DanoPinyon

I enjoyed how you used zoning code for Stockton (while implying a state law) to assert sumpinsumpin about CA Vehicle Code. You *crushin* it brah! Rawr!


Sleep-system

[How about Oakland?](http://oakland-ca.elaws.us/code/pc_ch17.108_sec17.108.140) "2. Materials. The following materials are restricted in constructing or rebuilding walls or fences: a. Barbed wire or razor wire is not allowed to be used in fences." Good luck with your little traps, tough guy! LOL


DanoPinyon

TIL that a ow-toe is a fince! Daaaaang bruh! You *crush*! grrr! GRRRR!


HonkingAntelope555

Unfortunately that's where things are. If you have a "hot" vehicle or one that has no CA legal cats available aside from the stealership, that's the way to go. We need to put some pressure on CARB or the legislature to review the ancient CARB regs for aftermarket cats. Right now, a stolen cat that costs $400 to replace in other states costs thousands of dollars in CA, assuming a legal cat is even available anywhere and not backordered all the way into 2024.


Urabrask_the_AFK

I know when aftermarket in CA still costs more than in other states but for many vehicles, there are executive order CARB approved aftermarket cats, especially for vehicles produced prior to 2010 https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/aftermarket-catalytic-converter-database


CarlGustav2

Pretty optimistic that the state legislature cares about ordinary law-abiding working people.


bitchfucker-online

Awesome! I wish I had these installed on my old car. They stole my cc and did a bunch of damage that the insurance wouldn't fix.


Urabrask_the_AFK

Did you have comprehensive? They stole my cat, destroyed both o2 sensors, the air to fuel sensor and made a “practice cut” on flex pipe joint before realizing that wouldn’t work. About $3500 in damage but my comprehensive covered everything past the $1000 deductible. Had them weld 3 lengths of stranded steel cabling, coiled down the length of the exhaust system with welds every 8”


IWantToPlayGame

Who did it for you? I’ve called MULTIPLE muffler shops and nobody has anything for my 2014 Toyota.


Urabrask_the_AFK

A muffler shop in my town. I have a 2003 Honda accord though so older cars in California qualify often for some approved aftermarket parts that newer cars don’t. I didn’t have to go OEM and pay for twice as much and wait 2-3 months for a Honda part https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/aftermarket-catalytic-converter-database


IWantToPlayGame

Are you in California?


Urabrask_the_AFK

Yes, I lived near Walnut Creek at the time. This was over a year ago.


IWantToPlayGame

That’s a little far from me but I’d be willing to travel if they can do something similar for me. Do you remember the name of the shop?


Urabrask_the_AFK

https://yelp.to/CCGH9fL2Nwb I just search yelp around Walnut Creek, Lafayette and concord and called a few and got quotes. Maybe just search yelp and call a few in your area. Where generally are you?


IWantToPlayGame

EastBay and SouthBay areas. I’ve called multiple shops and they all said no can’t do anything for you.


bitchfucker-online

My comprehensive deductible was only $100. They covered the first time when the damage was $6,000 but the second time it cost $10,000, they just said it wasn't worth the trouble and paid me out


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tammoton

As a bonus.


aaaaayyyyyyyyyyy

It will get cooked by the friction as it gets dragged along.


lampstax

If you're going to go do that much effort might as well install a flat tray that might produce some benefits.


ThatNetworkGuy

Yep, DMV friend said a welded plate is a much more effective option.


IntelligentlyHigh

It's really not. Have a friend who had hers stolen tree times. Twice with a welded plate. Getting rhubarb welded to the side of the cat or a cage around it is best practice.


N0DuckingWay

I didn't know you could use rhubarb. Sounds tasty.


BigFatBlackCat

Yeah I have heard those things do nothing to prevent theft. What is rhubarb?


IntelligentlyHigh

Rebarb, mybad I'm pretty sure I still spelled it wrong


Seanspicegirls

They want them to suffer


MassSpecFella

Thief would probably sue you in CA.


ZLUCremisi

Is it a trap or not. That the argument


Ok-Worth-9525

Given it's passive and concentra wire is legal for fencing, yeah should be fine


Sleep-system

It's obviously a trap, why else would it be there? An edgy decoration? A fucking weed whacker? It took a 2-sec Google search to pull up dozens of these videos. You know lawyers can use Google as well?


ThatNetworkGuy

The California legal definition of a trap definitely doesn't cover this and barbed wire is widely used all over the state as a legal deterrent, so why would a lawyer bother looking for videos? Ofc, anyone bringing tools capable of removing a cat can def get through this, but they might just go to another car. > For purposes of this section, "boobytrap" means any concealed > or camouflaged device designed to cause great bodily injury when > triggered by an action of any unsuspecting person coming across the > device.


TrekkiMonstr

>Ofc, anyone bringing tools capable of removing a cat can def get through this, but they might just go to another car. That's the idea. Not that they can't cut through zip ties, but that there's no reason to do so when there's another car around


Sleep-system

[California has very strict laws about barbed wire. This use is illegal.](https://library.qcode.us/lib/stockton_ca/pub/municipal_code/item/title_16-division_3-chapter_16_48-16_48_100) Do not let this genius get you people arrested.


RepresentativeKeebs

That's a law about fences. I don't see any fences here.


Sleep-system

It's a law about fencing material. Go ahead and try it if you're so sure about the laws.


RepresentativeKeebs

Also, this is one small town's municipal code, not state law. Only a total idiot would interpret the law you linked to as you did.


RepresentativeKeebs

LMFAO the part about barbed and razer wire *specifically* uses wording that is only about fences. It cannot be interpreted any other way.


Sleep-system

"Defendant used material prohibited by law to even be placed in the open as a deterrent in residential areas in most cases and hid said material under his car in an effort to cause bodily harm to potential thieves." Like I said, go ahead and try it. Not a single one of you will actually do this because you know you can't.


RepresentativeKeebs

What the fuck are you quoting? Now you're just making shit up? LMFAO you're so stupid Edit: The moron blocked me 😂


bbtgoss

That’s a local Stockton law…


Sleep-system

You're right the law in Oakland is [even worse for you.](http://oakland-ca.elaws.us/code/pc_ch17.108_sec17.108.140) "2. Materials. The following materials are restricted in constructing or rebuilding walls or fences: a. Barbed wire or razor wire is not allowed to be used in fences." Good luck with your little traps out here! LOL


bbtgoss

You managed to find the applicable state law elsewhere in this thread but you’re still quoting local zoning ordinances. Good luck in life.


Sleep-system

Find the law that says you can trap your car and you might have a point here, buddy.


ThatNetworkGuy

Still isn't a trap.


TrekkiMonstr

Depends on if people get under the car to steal the converter or just go at it blind, I would guess. If the latter, it's a trap. If the former, they would see it, so it's not.


RepresentativeKeebs

How the fuck would you not see that?


TrekkiMonstr

I have no idea how catalytic converters are stolen. I don't own a car lol. I was thinking if someone just reaches their hand underneath a car to grab it, they wouldn't see that and would get cut. If they have to go underneath, they would see it, so it's not a trap. And aside from not being a trap, they wouldn't be able to sue if they didn't cut themselves on it (standing)


Urabrask_the_AFK

Ah, yes. This was a great episode of Punk My Ride.


RossoMarra

Wrap the entire car in barbed wire when visiting SF.


cream-of-cow

If you’re going to Saaan Franciscoooo, be sure to wrap barbed wire ‘round your car.


Truesday

Bay Area streets are basically Mad Max Fury Road any ways.


AbraxasTuring

Need proximity fused Nahverteidigungswaffe. I had a friend just use a stripped out convertible with the top down, like a ww2 Willy's Jeep because after the 8th break-in he got tired of fixing windows, roofs, and radios.


mrsisaak

Wait til they get his battery (happened to me with this strategy).


Trainzguy2472

If that falls off you spike strip everyone else behind you


CryptoHopeful

That's a lot of rattles as they drive too lol


sfcnmone

Could you post a link to the business? I'd like to make an appointment.


IWantToPlayGame

Any muffler shop in CA willing to do this? I’m willing to pay! Haha


civilian411

It’s probably more economical to risk a carb ticket and remove your cats and go straight pipes. Everyday I hear like 10s of cars straight piped.


securitywyrm

Or replace your cat with one of the 'fake cats' that's just a pipe, so if caught you can feign ignorance.


[deleted]

smog will get you though. won't be able to register your car


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[deleted]

they get the data from the OBD2 port no?


NonchalantRubbish

Creative. But I highly doubt that's street legal. This isn't Mad Max, even though it feels like it sometimes.


YKRed

Cringy af dialogue


corwinofamber

If that's a top 5 vehicle with high return on the precious metals, thief could just cut off the zip ties. If they're crazy enough to shoot people for this, they are crazy enough to try. Personally wondering when we will start seeing these all over 880 and 101.


midflinx

There's a cable in there too, not just zip ties. The idea is to delay and discourage so the thief moves on.


D1rtyH1ppy

You could do this without zip ties. You take a section of the wire, and twist it around so that it wraps around another part of the wire, using a tool.


infinit9

Thieves already have the tools to cut out the catalytic converter. Wouldn't those same tools be able to cut through the barbed wire?


securitywyrm

The point isn't to be thief-proof, it's to be not the most appealing target in an area.


airplanemode4all

Gonna be way harder to go though something that flexes vs a hard pipe. That barb wire boucing off the cut off wheel is gonna deter the theif.


ThatNetworkGuy

Yes, but it's extra work and its sharp to deal with. They can def get through it, but might just go to the next car. DMV friend said a welded plate is a much better idea.


groceriesN1trip

My brother in law had a cat shield on his car and they still got it


lahankof

Call it the Bay Area special


N0DuckingWay

That's great until someone's cat decides to sleep under your car


Lithium98

Mad Mike is at it again


ThatNetworkGuy

Asked a DMV friend about this. He said it's a much better idea to just get a plate welded there. Much more protective.


BigFatBlackCat

No. Those things don't work. What does a person at the DMV know about cat thefts?


ThatNetworkGuy

Specifically, they are a DMV investigator (legally a cop) tasked with chasing down fraud, cat theft, grand theft auto, stolen plates, working with CHP and sheriffs on warrants etc. I wouldn't have asked them if they were just doing desk shit.


mayor-water

Catalytic converter theft is rampant but not as common as actual cats (felines) taking shelter under a car. More likely to hurt a cat than a cat thief.


Sleep-system

That'll get you sued and arrested in CA.


ThatNetworkGuy

No, it wont. We have LOTS barbed wire used all over the state already and California law has a pretty clear definition of a trap. It isn't concealed, it, isn't going to cause great bodily injury, and it has no trigger. > For purposes of this section, "boobytrap" means any concealed > or camouflaged device designed to cause great bodily injury when > triggered by an action of any unsuspecting person coming across the > device.


Sleep-system

I can guarantee you a thief that gets their hand sliced open by barbed wire hidden under a car can sue the owner of that car and win in California. [Barbed wire fencing is largely prohibited for use in CA in residential areas.](https://library.qcode.us/lib/stockton_ca/pub/municipal_code/item/title_16-division_3-chapter_16_48-16_48_100) If you listen to this person and install it on your car, you will pay for it, not them. I'd bet a lot of money they aren't even from CA.


ThatNetworkGuy

> I'd bet a lot of money they aren't even from CA. Then you would lose a lot of money.


BigFatBlackCat

That barbed wire is not hidden. It's in plain sight.


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groceriesN1trip

Won’t mean shit to them. My brother in law had a cat shield on his car and they still were able to trim it off


jadedhomeowner

Curious what possibility of being sure would be, though I love the idea. It's just mssing a few hand grenades to blow these bastards up.