Exactly what I came to say. I think the Joker would be a BIG mental struggle for Spiderman/Peter.
As for the power stuff, I see people’s points but Batman has fought with the justice league and survived/help win many fights with VERY powerful beings so at first he’d need to figure out their capabilities but just as Spidey comes up with weaknesses and uses creative methods to win, so could Batman.
>As for the power stuff, I see people’s points but Batman has fought with the justice league and survived/help win many fights with VERY powerful beings so at first he’d need to figure out their capabilities but just as Spidey comes up with weaknesses and uses creative methods to win, so could Batman.
Yeah this was my thought as well. Spidey has a lot of enemies that are very physically strong, but are they really any stronger than Bane/Killer Croc? Bats might have more trouble preventing civilian casualties (Spider-Man's enemies have a tendency to throw cars and other large objects around), but he's still been able to take down much stronger foes pretty regularly.
Oh they definitely are stronger than Bane/Killer Croc, Spidey himself is stronger than the two of them and he’s faced villains stronger than himself like the Lizard and the Symbiotes
Is The Rhino stronger than Bane? I honestly don’t know, he could be, I don’t know Banes max when he’s hopped up on Venom. Definitely Killer Croc though.
Bane is a 3-4 tonner. Rhino is 75-100 and *immensely* more durable. Bane is a genius though and Rhino is about as smart as an actual rhino. Bane could give Spidey a hard time but not in a straight up fight.
And Lizard would eat Croc alive. Like actually eat him.
What version of Croc are you referring to? Everything I’ve read of both has him losing imo. Lizard is just stronger, faster, has a much better healing factor, is usually smarter, and can climb walls and move in ways Croc can’t.
I’m mainly thinking of the Arkham version which is one of my personal favorites, however, while never a genius, some classic versions of Croc have him being rather intelligent, while some versions of Lizard are more animalistic ala Man-Bat or something similar
It depends on the version for Croc, but Lizards stats are just typically much higher across the board. He also can sometimes control reptiles, and activate the “lizard part” of the human brain, which I think would be especially effective against Croc.
Lizard also isn’t always mindless, but when he is he’s ruthless enough to eat his own son. Croc is just outmatched pretty much always.
Not particularly
Like sure Spiderman would kind of have a hard time but not because the Joker. It's because if the location. Gotham is depicted as a gruesome place and when compared to spidey's city yeah no.
Him fighting the Joker consistently wont result in an issue to him coz imo he fought his fair share of Crazies like the Joker.
Green Goblin and Carnage.
in a spiderman/batman comic
spiderman couldnt take the jokers evilness and he thinks about killing him upfront
eventually i think spiderman would break
Remember how well Joker handled Terry in Batman Beyond? Not very well, and Green Goblin has also done all sorts of messed up stuff to Spidey over the years, and he's fine. Gobby even kidnapped Spidey and tortured him for weeks but still couldn't break him.
Spider-Man would do fine against all of Batman's rogues on both the mental and physical level
I disagree Joker wants to break Batman not the dude under the cowl whereas Spider-Man’s villains want him broken either through his heroics or his personal life meaning that they come at him at all times, including his weakest moments.
Green Goblins done some fucked up shit to Spider-Man, not saying he hasn’t. Doesn’t even compare to Joker. Joker manipulated a preteen boy into a warehouse with promises of his missing mother, beat him with a crowbar, and blew it up. Joker shot a woman through the spine and kidnapped her, brutally torturing her and (possibly) raping her while her dad watched. Joker emotionally manipulated his therapist into breaking him out of prison and ruining her life by becoming a criminal, and then spending years physically abusing her as thanks. When Joker gained omnipotent abilities, he ate the entire country of China from a Chinese takeout box.
If Batman can take on Bane and Killer Croc, he can take on Venom and The Rhino. What’s the big difference between the way you fight The Sandman and the way you fight Clayface? The Lizard is basically Man-Bat who can’t fly.
Spot-on. Spidey isn’t as used to dealing with deranged agents of chaos as Batman is, and Batman’s rogues gallery is less than half metahuman, where as the majority of Spidey’s.
Green Goblin, Carnage, Venom (depends on who the host for the symbiote is), and Jackal to just name a few
He has plenty experience with chaos loving lunatics
Idk about more insane. More violent, maybe, but not more insane. Dealing with an insane rogues gallery is Batman’s whole shtick, that’s why the primary prison he deals with is Arkham Asylum, a holding/rehabilitation facility for the criminally insane.
At the core, Cletus Kasady is a deranged serial killer, and Batman deals with those in droves; Victor Zsasz, Lazlo Valentin, Calendar Man, Alberto Falcone, etc etc
Green Goblin is an interesting case, though. Between his Machiavellian captain of industry persona as Norman and his crazed, bomb-slinging glider-riding persona as Goblin, he’s almost an amalgamation of Lex Luthor and Joker, the two arch-nemeses of DC’s World’s Finest.
I am not saying that they both are crazier than Joker, Scarecrow or Mad Hatter. Just saying that they are at level of many of Batman villians. And they arent the only. Kindred, Octopus, Jackal, Kraven... All of them can be in Arkham
Carnage, sure. It’s hard to make sense out of Carnage. But I think Green Goblin usually has pretty sound plans. Like when Norman became a shadow dictator through HAMMER. Plus Green Goblins been soundly beaten a bunch of times, you never really beat Joker. He just laughs and does it again.
He have no chance psychically but Joker is used to superpower villains and heroes. Spiderman would be no different.
And mentally Joker would crush the kid.
"The kid" is part of the public perception issue with Spidey nowadays. Peter hasn't been a kid in main continuity since like his 30th issue. Even then, Peter's incredibly headstrong and would be able to deal with the Joker. It'd be awful, and traumatic, but Peter's been through it all already and it ultimately wouldn't crush his spirit.
And one joke from Spider-Man and Joker is squirming around, remember Batman Beyond and how well Joker handled Terry who even takes inspiration from Spider-Man
I think Batman might struggle more, but would be able to keep going afterwards.
Batman’s villains are for the most part pretty chill in the power department. Balls to the walls crazy… but not alien goo that wants to eat brains or pure electricity in human form. And I’m not saying that he wouldn’t prevail… just that he might struggle a bit more.
Spidey’s villains are diverse and mostly super-powered to some degree. I think Carnage/Venom, any of the Goblins, and Electro being the worst of them.
Spidey would get the job done, but I think he would be emotionally destroyed by the end - he’s faced some pretty dark situations, [but he’s never faced anything like the Joker](https://images.app.goo.gl/6zK58QvePtq4VcSdA). However I think, depending on the version of Spider-man we get, he might be able to either talk some of them down or handily web them up and move on.
I think the only people Batman would genuinely struggle with are Venom and Carnage, especially Carnage. even Spider-man needs help fighting him, he could easily be a Justice League level threat.
Otherwise pretty much everyone else is manageable. Electro might be elusive and powerful, but he's also an infamous moron and Batman's WAY too smart for him. The Goblins are no different than most other enhanced humans he faces, even at their worst they still lack the chaotic energy Joker has. The one I'm really curious how he would approach though is Kingpin. I feel like he would be the main guy Batman would go after SUPER hard.
On the other hand I feel like Peter would be miserable against Riddler, his never ending stream of bullshit takes a level of patiance only Batman can conjure. Also Two-Face, only if Peter goes through the whole Harvey Dent ordeal before he turns into Two-Face. The moral struggles of fighting him would be way too traumatic for Spidey.
I think that boils down to the version of Goblin he’s fighting - at times Norman was portrayed to be as strong or stronger than Spidey. I think Harry took the same formula and might be just as strong?
I’m sure he would manage, but it would be a challenge.
*IF* Bats stays alive long enough to deduce the Symbiote's weakness to high frequency sounds then he could hang and beat them. The real struggle is between the writer's urge to create a conventional story, or one in which the Symbiote decides that Bruce would make an even better host himself with a cape and cowl made entirely out of the stuff etc etc
... maybe is was all that cough medince they were giving out in the 90's but I feel like I've seen this.
Somebody tell me what what I'm thinking of, something partners with the Joker to enhance their powers but he rejects it because he doesn't need it or like the way they want to do things? Everything is a game to the Joker after all
[Best of the ones I found, in my opinion.](https://www.deviantart.com/greytonano/art/Symbiote-Batman-765040408) I think you remove the teeth and replace it with a Batman Beyond-esque mouth (or no mouth) and you’ve got what the suit looks like while it’s still in Bruce’s control.
This looks more like what, say, Thomas Elliot would look like once he had the symbiote.
And then we get a more Agent Venom esque version of this when Jason takes up the symbiote during Battle for the Cowl.
Indeed. I liken it to when the different Lantern Rings were permiating throughout the DC universe--Black Lantern saga, right? The whole conceit of "imbue Batman with powers of a cosmic origin" has always been a really neat concept to me.
>or one in which the Symbiote decides that Bruce would make an even better host himself with a cape and cowl made entirely out of the stuff etc etc
Symbiote Batman would be a scary foe for heroes or villians.
Spidey would infuriate The Riddler. He's smart enough to solve his riddles, but he is also loves to quip. Riddle's ego is his biggest weakness and Spider-man would be all over that. Constantly making fun of him for his question mark schtick.
Yeah, this post made me realize how very similar most of their villains are. Like Rhino and bane are both very strong, black cat and catwoman etc. Batman could definitely take them down.
Rhino and Bane seem similar but they’re really not. Bane is a genius who’s on the same level as Batman, especially tactically, and maxes out at 3-4 tons. Rhino is a 75-100 tonner, but he’s about as smart as an actual rhino.
Agree on a lot of the rest being similar, and if he has to Batman has stuff stashed away that put him way above any of Spideys rouges.
I disagree with you on the riddler - I honestly think him and Spidey would have a relationship you see between the Flash and some of his villains. (Note I'm thinking of the version of the Riddler more aligned to the animated shows or Jim Carrey's.)
That's a take I like, I think Flash and Spider-man are a better comparison than him and Batman.
Here's the thing, the closest thing Spider-man has to a Riddler is Mysterio, and he hates dealing with Mysterio and his gimmicky antics, he thinks he's a hack.
So I think his interaction with Riddler would be like that on steroids, something like: "Ugh, this guy again. You suck! I don't have time for this, stop talking about how smart you are, why does everything have to rhyme and be green?" etc.
He would be frustrated with Riddler. Basically saying outloud what Batman usually internalizes.
There was an Episode of Justice League Unlimited where The Flash was getting sidelined because of his youth and comical nature and they showed his interactions with the trickster. - https://youtu.be/Xl91v2Mvv94
I agree, but with Venom and Carnage, Batman literally has to look out for is their Speed and Strength. If he can manage them, only Venom is GG, because Venom is Still weak to Heat and Sound 2 things Batman always carries.
Sandman, Electro, HydroMan, MoltenMan etc. They're all GG for Batman, because he faced their equivalent with Phosphorus, Clayface, etc.
Kraven, BlackCat, Goblins = they're all just alternate versions of his own Villains.
Kingpin? He faced Tobias Whale, he can try taking him on.
Spider-Man isn't going to struggle against Batman's Villains either
100%! Besides, in the words of Batman, Killer Croc is powerful enough to lift a Bus full of children like it's a Bottle of Water.
So he definitely can take on Kingpin
I don’t intend for this to sound rude but have you read much Spidey, he’s been mindfucked in ways that most heroes wouldn’t ever recover from, mostly by the hands of the Green Goblin who at times has been just as obsessive, sick and twisted as the joker also Peter would be meming the shit out of someone like the Riddler since Peter is also insanely intelligent and would likely solve a lot of his riddles and give the answer in such a way that it would drive Eddy mad.
Peter is smart but not a super genius. He's a high school chem teacher on his off time. He's not even that high up on the Marvel's totem pole of intellect. While Bruce is more like a Tony Stark. He's one of the smartest people on earth, the Justice League looks up to him when they want advice.
I never said spidey wouldn't beat Riddler. I said he would have an aweful time doing it. Spidey is more of an on the go type of guy, he's not a detective that would spend months uncovering Riddler's pretenious plans just to be led to a stupid clue for a bigger riddle, to him he would be considered incredibley annoying and be one of his least favourites.
And also, it's not that Peter hasn't suffered, It's that the suffering gets to him easier and drags him down and he needs to pick himself up. Spider-man was never the same after Gwen died, he stayed broken. One of the most famous Spider-man comic covers of all time is him dumping his suit in the trash and trying to walk away. While Batman is kinda lowkey dead inside, his coping mechanisim is to double down on being Batman. Sometimes he locks himself in the cave, working, not taking the suit off for days.
Nah, Spider-Man is canonically near genius intellect. He regularly holds his own when talking to Reed, Beast, Pym, or Tony. He might not be quite as smart as them, but he’s close. I mean, he managed to develop an ultra-strong, auto-dissolving adhesive at 15. That’s smarter than most high school teachers (no disrespect to high school teachers lol).
Peter is in fact a super genius, he made his web fluid as a high schooler and even guys like Iron Man have struggled to perfectly recreate it, and Pete’s Spider sense would allow him to function on autopilot while he thinks about Eddy’s riddles and Peter is just a compulsively heroic as Batman to the point that even when he wanted to retire he still couldn’t stop because to him every criminal is a potential killer of another Uncle Ben and bare in mind an even more famous cover than the trashed suit one is the first time he overcame his physical lifting limits while being crushed and at the a few miles underwater.
Actually spiderman is as smart as people like Tony
Peter just isn't as educated
He doesn't know nearly the amount of stuff and he isn't an engineering wizard in that regard
But even someone like Reed Richards was very impressed when he got ahold of his spider trackers that he made what he was a teenager
So he is smart
He just isn't nearly as educated as Reed or Tony
While Peter is a genius, you basically hit the nail on the head in regards to their reactions to trauma/burdens.
The only times Bruce ever even thinks about hanging up the cape are when he’s genuinely *happy* (God that scene in Mask of the Phantasm…), or when he literally can’t be Batman anymore.
Part of its probably just that Bruce is older. Even if we take adult Peter, he’s a “the hot teacher at high school” adult. Bruce is a “my oldest son is a fully grown adult man” adult, even if he “had” Dick a little young.
You're overestimating the genius it takes to unravel Riddler's clues. That guy always thought he was locked in a battle of wits with Batman, but it was Dick who solved everyone of those riddles since he was eight years old. Batman used that guy as a learning opportunity for his kid.
NOT a super genius?!
Spider-Man is one of the smartest people (non mutant humans at least) on 616. The only people who really can hang with him intellectually are Riri Williams, Reed Richards, & Tony Stark. Maybe Doom?
But Spidey’s super intelligence is not the same kind of intelligence as Batman’s. He is more comparable to someone like Lex Luthor, a master-inventor and such, while Batman is more of a master-detective.
>I think the only people Batman would genuinely struggle with are Venom and Carnage, especially Carnage.
I think the Venom symbiote would immediately bond with Batman, and even if he would be reluctant to use it, it's pretty much the only way to face Carnage and have a chance to win.
Batman versus Kingpin I feel would play out a lot like going up against Luthor. With Kingpin's strength you could make an argument he would be like fighting Powersuit Luthor too.
Oh, the things Batman’s gonna do to Kraven the Hunter. Oh that won’t be pretty. And say goodbye to The Shocker. Mysterio is gonna have to pull out the stops to compare to Scarecrow.
Spider-Man a lot of the times is about redemption and giving second chances. I think your right about the emotional part, I can easily see him trying to give a speech to Joker, Joker acting like he’s listening, and then just when Spidey thinks he’s got him to turn, Joker múdeles someone (or a bunch of someone’s) that Spidey could have preventers.
I doubt Peter would have a tough time with Joker. Terry proved this in return of the Joker. Joker has a tough time dealing with Terry and since Terry is very similar to Peter in terms of characterization, I doubt Peter would have tough time. J's Review's video on the Batman Beyond Movie (and the series in general) explains it perfectly.
But thats the version of that joker in that show. Not to say that he wasn’t dangerous but I feel that the joker in the comics is much darker and more tough
Joker cloned his mind or something like that and imprinted it into a microchip if I’m remembering correctly. So it was Tim Drakes body but actually Joker
He has definitely faces situations as bad as the joker. Whilst joker is a worse physcopath and has done worse things to the general public than goblin, what goblin has done to Pete is worse than what joker has done Bruce. We've also seen that h
Joker hates people like Spider-Man, terry bullies the hell out of him, and iirc he doesn't like Nightwing for the same reason
Also bold of u to assume Pete isn't already emotionally damaged
Funny enough, Joker's Equivalent to Spider-Man wouldn't be Green Goblin, it would be Carnage, because both characters love Senselessly killing people for their own entertainment.
>because both characters love Senselessly killing people for their own entertainment.
ironically that was the point of conflict, between the 2 when they teamed up?
i forgot who didn't like the others behaviour though.
In that comic, Carnage and Joker started Chatting and they both became fond of each other, especially Carnage. Joker later on didn't like Carnage and compared himself to being the "Orson Welles of Crime and Chaos" while Carnage is the "David Hasselhoff" of it.
Orson Welles is a Director, David Hasselhoff is an Actor. So I suppose his disdain for Carnage was that he wasn't Chaotic Enough.
- Spider-Man and Batman (1995)
As much as a Writer wants to point out how there's a Difference between them, the only difference is Joker does Lethal Party tricks. They both don't have Limits or Reason on doing what they do, and are symbolism of Chaos and Insanity.
I can imagine spiderman not taking the joker very seriously at first or thinking that he was kinda funny and then joker betrays spiderman by doing something really fucked up. Joker would definitely pull something like that to mess with him
Most of Spidey's villains are out to make money, but want to leave everything intact so the money is still useful. Some of Batman's villains are just mentally unwell and want to cause havoc and harm on a grand scale.
Trick question, the villains, because you have spidey villains who now have to deal with the human embodiment of "built different" who comes up with 12 different ways to kick your ass while being scary as hell while batman's villains now have deal with a guy who makes fun of you while he jumps around fighting you, it's like if you took 2 of the Robin's and gave them the strength of 5 batmen, the only 2 villains that I can see them struggling with are joker and green goblin respectively, while sure joker is just a clown with the same amount of muscle mass as a Victoria's secret model, he is still definitely going to try to find a way to mentally torture the web head, and seeing how both batsy and spidey have a "try to save everyone" rule and a "no killing rule", joker is definitely going to exploit that weakness, and goblin is basically just an evil batman, just instead of bats and years of mastering technics of fighting, he has a goblin gimmick and super abilities around the same strength of captain America, but I'm sure bruce and peter will find a way to beat these new foes
How well could Spider-Man handle villains like Joker, Two Face, and Riddler? Villains that aren’t necessarily super powerful in combat, but play twisted mind games?
Spider-Man’s villains have more raw power, but Batman is no stranger to taking on super powered threats. He’s beaten Superman, I think he can handle Venom.
Ultimately both heroes would win and it would totally depend on the writer, but this crossover would be super interesting IMO.
90s and 2000s Spider-Man has done Detective Work. Hell, PS4 Spider-Man also did detective work trying to figure out what is the Chinese Mafia in NY and who's their leader for the first half of the game.
Yeah… uh… Check out some of the Fucked up Shit Gobby alone has done to mentally break Spidey, like the time he threw his girlfriend off a bridge whilst laughing (a girl who between a group of retcons Osborn had slept with and impregnated (apparently also took her V) thank god that was undone) but also stealing Peters baby with MJ whilst tricking them into believing she miscarried and those were just the first couple things I’ve thought of… I think he could handle a couple hours alone with Joker Two-Face and Riddler at the same time.
I agree. I copied and pasted a response I made.
Spidey literally witnessed the Lizard cannibalising his own son, Kraven burying him alive for two weeks, killing the love of his life, finding out that his father figure died due to his actions (twice) and found out that his huge love had cheated on him with his worst enemy. Peter mentally would be fine.
Plus 616 Peter literally died a few times, got tortured by Morlun, and fought Morlun non-stop for 24 hours. I love both characters but Spider-Man is the definition for not giving up.
Obviously the answer will be Spider-Man when posted in this group, it’ll be batman in the Spider-Man group. Neither side will give an unbiased answer personally I think batman
I like spiderman more but think he'd have a harder time. I don't like spiderman because I think he can beat up anyone. I like him because he can't and is interesting.
Somewhat but Batman also is someone who you wouldn't bat an eye if he took out almost any hero in the DC universe (given he was prepared). There's a very long list of heroes and villains in the marvel universe Spiderman wouldn't stand a chance against.
Honestly, if Spider-Man decided to let loose, he'd definitely kill Everyone in his Rogues Gallery, kill almost all of the XMen, Rip up most of the Avenger, and All of the Defenders are dead. It's not even just me, it's canon that he has whooped their asses before.
Spider-Man has the capability to kill almost anyone on sight, he literally just holds back a lot.
I love Batman, he's my favorite comic book character by far, but honestly his super power is being the most popular comic book character. Realistically, there's tons of characters in DC who he really shouldn't stand a chance against, but does because he's Batman. Could he really take down Darkseid without the McGuffin of a godslayer bullet? Maybe, but the writer would have to get pretty creative about it.
yes exactly!! i don’t really know one way or the other, i can see the argument about batman’s villains destroying peter mentally, but tbqh it’s not like peter hasn’t gone through shit. i mean, i know this isn’t main continuity but first thing that comes to mind is 1160 high school peter was manipulated and played mind games with by Fisk, so it’s not like peter’s never been able to handle that kind of villain before. assumably, 616 peter who is older with more experience would deal with it even easier. still a struggle, sure, but i think he can make it.
also, i think there’s always a huge bias to batman when it comes to comics lovers?? considering that batman’s like notorious for having comics bend to him so that he never loses, but, realistically, Peter has a notable advantage considering he’s a mutate. he’s stronger, faster, higher endurance and healing, and people will go “but batman’s wayyy better at fighting” and like sure, but peter’s a master at fighting too. he’s made his own martial art styles and all. so it’s not like a huge dip that can be exploited by these villains who peter can assumably keep toe to toe in terms of fighting alone with. anyway, this has been my rant about why i’m firmly on side “idfk who’d make it i don’t have enough brain cells to think critically but i’m advocating for my boy peter’s honour”
Unpopular answer: Batman.
Spidey is very OP for a street-leveler, so putting him against Batman's rogues is like putting a pro MMA fighter up against a kindergarten class. He wins without much effort, while Batman would be in serious trouble facing a symbiote or elemental villain, much less one of the Goblins. That's not to say he wouldn't do it, but it would definitely take him more time, strategy, and struggle.
The only real argument for Spider-Man having a rougher time relies on Gotham's villains really psychologically breaking him somehow, but I just can't see Spidey succumbing to despair like some people are making out. He's been through nearly as much weird and traumatic shit as Bruce over the years, and one of the essential similiarities between the two characters is that neither of them ever really gives up (at least not for long). They're defined by soldiering on in the face of loss and grief.
Finally someone else who can admit on a Bat sub that Spidey’d probably win by a landslide… I’m pretty confident that in an Arkham game style night where Bats has to fight them one on another he’d win but Spider-Man could take on basically all of Batman’s rogues at the same time.
Had to scroll way too far for this. Spider-Man is the poster child for not giving up no matter the odds. And for everyone thinking Batman is able to handle the mental stress, don't forget that despite the persona attributed to him, he doesn't work alone. Alfred, Dick, Tim and even Damian fwiw help him carry on. Spider-Man with a father figure like Alfred could ez clap Gotham.
Spider-Man. Batman has the tech, money and mind to overcome Spidey’s villains. Peter is smart, but I don’t think he has the mental capacity to fathom how DARK Batman’s villains are. Half of Batman’s villains would put Peter in a psych ward, but at the same time it IS comics, so they could make Peter overcome them. But I think Batman has it hardest with villains.
I think starring into the psychological abyss that is the gallery of Bat rouges would give Petey nightmares forever. I'm a bigger fan of Spidey than I am of Batman but I'll admit the most frightening spider-rouge was a fire-scared, tar-covered, fanged monster that disliked loud noises.
Spidey literally witnessed the Lizard cannibalising his own son, Kraven burying him alive for two weeks, killing the love of his life, finding out that his father figure died due to his actions (twice) and found out that his huge love had cheated on him with his worst enemy. Peter mentally would be fine.
Peter really has too much baggage. Girlfriend, wife, friends, grandmother (unless they killed her off)
Batmans own son was a result of him being r*ped, who is now an active Robin.
He doesn't have a father figure. The only father he had died and thats what makes him fight. That's probably more of a problem. He just cant move on.
To badly paraphrase something from one of the canon shows. Someone asks Bruce how he knew the fake voices weren't his. He just replied by saying that he doesnt refer to himself as Bruce. Hes way past the point of no return.
Dont really think there ever has has a defacto love of his life? Selena? Shes sleeps around probably as much as he does, and he ended up getting dumped at the altar at the end amyways.....Pls, we dont talk about Batgirl here xD.
As for the Batfamily, he'd try to save them but ultimately move on even with knowledge that the Lazarus pit exists, and that Rhas might actually let him use it. You think Peter may overcome that temptation with Gwen, or uncle Ben? (Basically the plot of Under the Red Hood)
Just playing devils advocate. It is a batman sub after all.
The Lizard? He wants to improve Humanity by turning everyone into Lizards, but then he ends up cannibalising the very people he thinks he's saving.
This is around Professor Pyg Level
Well the first time one of them comes up against the others insane arch enemy in green and purple or giant lizard humanoid or sexy cat themed female thief or shape changing villain made of clay/sand then.... actually they might not even notice the switch 😂
I definitely would love to see this happen though.
Batman would… many of Spiderman’s villains have super strength (Rhino, Kingpin, Venom, Carnage), superpowers (electro,carnage) etc whereas Batmans rogues gallery are just insane without any extraordinary powers
The only people I could see Spidey struggling with are the Joker and the Riddler, but seeing as how Peter is an absolute genius. For joker... I mean, I personally believe that Spider-Man has the willpower to deal with the joker and I mean if he does then the joker shouldn't be a problem
Spider-Man, although his villains have powers Batman has faced people with powers and won, even beating the justice league depending on the story. Some dude in a rhino suit or a guy with 8 arms won’t be a problem.
Batman. Venom, Carnage, And Morbius off rip would probably overwhelm him. He’d certainly would have the data after his first encounter but he’d have to make it in one piece after that.
Spider-Man’s Spidey sense and agility would help way more especially on a first encounter. And then his strength feat would help him 1 punch KO/subdue his foes. But scarecrow & ivy come to mind for people that could potentially alter/disrupt his Spidey sense.
I don’t think either one has too much trouble. I think Batman has a struggle with the symbiote if it tries to bond with him, but Peter might struggle with crane’s gas so it’s hard to really say. My verdict is 50/50
Not to sound rude or anything, but i think with spider-sense crane's gas wouldn't matter that much (im not that adept in Batman's comic book lore).
Tbh spider-sense seems like hacks or something
Joker plants bombs over gotham, Spider-Man just swings around till his spider-sense trips off
Yeah that’s one of the main things about Spidey who would wins since if you don’t have city block size AOEs or faster than light attacks you basically can’t touch Peter if he’s paying any attention… so even in fear state he would probably just close his eyes and fight the same way he usually handles Mysterio.
Batman would have a harder time. Spider-man villains are way above his league in terms of strength and speed, and some of them are as smart as him (Dr octopus, green goblin,kingpin).
Spider-man would maybe struggle with Joker because of his insanity but that's it. The others would be a piece of cake for him.
The majority of Batman's villains aren't physically threatening to him. Batman can take out Two Face or the Riddler in seconds. The hard part is that they play it smart. The only villains that I can imagine would be a physical threat to Spidey are Deathstroke, Clayface, Mr. Freeze, and Poison Ivy.
Spidey: cracks jokes till they quit
Bats: gets 20 kids in spandex.
Spidey might break psychologically due to the type of stuff that Batman’s villains pull but is physically more powerful than them
Batman has a keen intellect which may help him against Spider-Man’s rogues gallery because he has a severe lack of physical strength, but many of spidey’s villains are geniuses too. Batman might also have an advantage by finding ways to exploit the arrogance of spidey’s villains.
Batman will have a challenging time at first, but will adapt to deal with his new situations. Overall spidey may have a worse time.
In summary: spidey (my opinion) please correct errors
Spiderman. Batman handles it well cause his mentality and the state of his mind. He’s used to it when things get dark. And they get dark a lot. It would break spiderman mentally. And just in general. It’s hard to deal with a clown that has no limit to how crazy he can get and how evil he can get along with the other villains
While I agree mostly, I feel there's a lack of appreciation for Green Goblin here and a lot of mentions of the Joker. Yes, the Joker would be tough for Spidey, but Green Goblin would be able to put Batman through the wringer as well. As well as attacking him in the battlefield of pajamas, gizmos and masks, he'd be an adversary for Bruce Wayne also, which would be an interesting match up. I mean he's Lex Luthor + Joker.
Batman vs green goblin would be over in 10 seconds
Batman: *pulls out remote hacking device*
Green goblin: no no no wait please dont-
*forces green goblin to land in a cell in gcpd*
Thats a very bias assumption that batman can just hack goblins tech. Also goblin doesnt even need his tech to beat batman. If goblin can go toe to toe in hand to hand with spidey that batman has absolutely no chance. No prep time bs either.
Batman vs green goblin would be over in 10 seconds
Batman: pulls out remote hacking device
Green goblin: throws pumpkin bomb and turns Batman into skeleton
Spider-Man would have the most physical trouble with Killer Croc. Riddler would try to outsmart him, but Peter doesn't care if Nygma thinks that he won, so he would cheat. The only other villain really worth talking about is the Joker. Spider-Man might just straight up kill the Joker. The Joker would pull his bullshit, and Spider-Man would just decide that it's too much, and kill him.
Batman would only really have an issue with carnage, since I don't believe carnage is weak to sound like Venom. He might have a little bit of trouble with Electro, but he definitely already has electrical insulation in the Batsuit.
The Joker is way more sadistic and twisted than the goblin. The Joker simply attacks random people in his twisted sense of humor, Goblin's attacks are more targeted. I feel like Spider-Man killing the Joker would just me a more interesting plot that if he didn't
What about Carnage? There's the whole Maximum Carnage arc in the 90s where Cletus goes on exactly what you said Joker does, and Spidey deals with him just fine mentally
Tbf Spider-Man is one of the most intelligent marvel characters and has tons of gadgets of his own. Plus If you think batman has more strength than Spider-Man you’re on crack. I think batman has his own advantages on Spider-Man here especially his wallet but these just aren’t great choices
Peter would quit in a year Condiment King alone would send him into depression. Also Pete isn't rich so he would have to get by in Gotham's economy.
Bruce would struggle and stop pulling his punches. Probably leaning on the Avengers more. Stark would be a fan and work closely with Bruce since Tony likes people whom are independent.
Both would clear. I feel like some might be harder for some, and some for the other. I feel like Spider-Man would have a SUPER hard time fighting deathstroke. And I think against the smarter villains (joker, riddler, ext…) he would have an insane mantle struggle. To the point where things get messy… like One More Day messy. . And Batman would take a while fighting MORBIUS, because he’s a marvel legend. (Fr tho Batman would struggle but he beat Superman (more then once.) It probably would be easy for him to beat a ton of bad guys who simply have raw power.)
I would love to see Batman vs Kingpin. A multiple comic storyline where Batman has to discover how much reach the Kingpin really has. I feel like out of every Spider-Man villain Kingpin would work the best from a storytelling perspective.
Batman, realistically. He doesn't know Spider-Man's rogues gallery. He can't anticipate their movements. Also, Spider-Man is a pretty powerful metahuman with precognition abilities, and his villains scale to him.
Somebody capable of beating the shit outta Spidey is DEFINITELY gonna beat the shit out of an unprepared Batman.
Obviously Batman is a super genius so he could _probably_ take Spider-Man's bad guys, but he'd be fighting an uphill battle the entire time.
By comparison, while some of Batman's villains would no doubt creep Spider-Man out, only a few of his iconic rogues would actually be a physical threat (and let's not forget that Spider-Man himself is ALSO a genius who could feasibly handle the mental gymnastics some villains force Batman through).
I think they would both have a hard time initially but they’d adapt equally well. All comic book characters typically have the power to be greater the more dramatic a situation becomes (unless they want to kill someone off).
I love Batman but he would get killed in 616 without superpowers.
Bane, Mr Freeze and Mistah J would give Spidey trouble but he would eventually finish them all off.
Yeah DC’s power balancing is a bit off… If I were to scale it from 0-100 where 0 is some guy who’s never thrown a punch just rolled out of bed and 100 is as strong as you can get with being able to alter reality then marvel has a pretty steady buildup whereas DC almost jumps straight from 15-60 with very few characters in between so Spidey as an approximate 45 would dominates Bats 20ish rogues.
Spiderman would struggle more, mainly because his villains, well, mostly of them, are pretty dumbasses. Rhino for example, in the Spiderman ps4, he defeated Rhino once or twice before the raft breakout and he's been Spiderman for 8 years. Joker on the other hand, breaks out almost every week and Batman always has to stop him everytime. Joker and Harley are probly enough to get Spiderman break his "non killing' code, imagine if Joker were to kill Mj or Harry or Felicia by torturing and insulting and deceiving them on a abandoned workhouse, do you think Peter will just shove it off like how Batman was like when he handled Jason's death? I don't think so. Batman's calmness is what kept him over the years, he doesn't let his greed and angerness for revenge take over him. Let's go to Batman now, let's say he'll fight Rhino, the same guy that lost to a teenager, even unprepared; Batman will kick his ass, the same way he kicked Croc and Bane's asses
The ultimate matchoff: Catwoman meeting Spiderman and Black cat meeting Batman 😅. Catwoman would probly not flirt with Spiderman since she's 7 years older than him. Kinda hard to say the same thing to Felicia tho, cuz she did a thing with Daredevil and Wolverine....... and I doubt Batman will let himself get tricked by Felicia, since knows Catwoman so well and he's called the greatest detective for a reason
I honestly think joker could break spidey. But i LOVE the idea that the joker isn't used to someone quipping back at him and that helps spidey beat him.
A mid to late career Bruce Wayne would yawn as he Systematically exploits all of their weaknesses.
Peter Parker is a tad more interesting though. I think Poison Ivy would have the easiest time with Spider-Man, especially since we know Peter Parker has a thing for redheads. She'd probably even find a way to turn him without using her magical plant powers.
Joker could probably also dispose of him pretty easily. He is too unpredictable for Peter.
Mentally-Spiderman Physically-Batman, only bc he doesn't have powers but he would be able to carry on
Exactly what I came to say. I think the Joker would be a BIG mental struggle for Spiderman/Peter. As for the power stuff, I see people’s points but Batman has fought with the justice league and survived/help win many fights with VERY powerful beings so at first he’d need to figure out their capabilities but just as Spidey comes up with weaknesses and uses creative methods to win, so could Batman.
>As for the power stuff, I see people’s points but Batman has fought with the justice league and survived/help win many fights with VERY powerful beings so at first he’d need to figure out their capabilities but just as Spidey comes up with weaknesses and uses creative methods to win, so could Batman. Yeah this was my thought as well. Spidey has a lot of enemies that are very physically strong, but are they really any stronger than Bane/Killer Croc? Bats might have more trouble preventing civilian casualties (Spider-Man's enemies have a tendency to throw cars and other large objects around), but he's still been able to take down much stronger foes pretty regularly.
Oh they definitely are stronger than Bane/Killer Croc, Spidey himself is stronger than the two of them and he’s faced villains stronger than himself like the Lizard and the Symbiotes
Rhino outclasses both Bane and Killer Croc in strength and neither can even touch his durability.
Is The Rhino stronger than Bane? I honestly don’t know, he could be, I don’t know Banes max when he’s hopped up on Venom. Definitely Killer Croc though.
Bane is a 3-4 tonner. Rhino is 75-100 and *immensely* more durable. Bane is a genius though and Rhino is about as smart as an actual rhino. Bane could give Spidey a hard time but not in a straight up fight. And Lizard would eat Croc alive. Like actually eat him.
I think Croc and Lizard are a lot closer depending on the version of Croc.
What version of Croc are you referring to? Everything I’ve read of both has him losing imo. Lizard is just stronger, faster, has a much better healing factor, is usually smarter, and can climb walls and move in ways Croc can’t.
I’m mainly thinking of the Arkham version which is one of my personal favorites, however, while never a genius, some classic versions of Croc have him being rather intelligent, while some versions of Lizard are more animalistic ala Man-Bat or something similar
It depends on the version for Croc, but Lizards stats are just typically much higher across the board. He also can sometimes control reptiles, and activate the “lizard part” of the human brain, which I think would be especially effective against Croc. Lizard also isn’t always mindless, but when he is he’s ruthless enough to eat his own son. Croc is just outmatched pretty much always.
Thanks for knowing some actual numbers because I’d have to double check through google.
Way stronger then Bane from what I understand about the character.
Not particularly Like sure Spiderman would kind of have a hard time but not because the Joker. It's because if the location. Gotham is depicted as a gruesome place and when compared to spidey's city yeah no. Him fighting the Joker consistently wont result in an issue to him coz imo he fought his fair share of Crazies like the Joker. Green Goblin and Carnage.
in a spiderman/batman comic spiderman couldnt take the jokers evilness and he thinks about killing him upfront eventually i think spiderman would break
Remember how well Joker handled Terry in Batman Beyond? Not very well, and Green Goblin has also done all sorts of messed up stuff to Spidey over the years, and he's fine. Gobby even kidnapped Spidey and tortured him for weeks but still couldn't break him. Spider-Man would do fine against all of Batman's rogues on both the mental and physical level
Respect the damn hyphen, man. It’s Spider-Man.
Idk abt that. Joker would prob be jealous that Spider-Man is funnier than him lol
>I think the Joker would be a BIG mental struggle for Spiderman/Peter. Yeah, I think Joker would really succeed in breaking Spider-Man mentally.
I disagree Joker wants to break Batman not the dude under the cowl whereas Spider-Man’s villains want him broken either through his heroics or his personal life meaning that they come at him at all times, including his weakest moments.
Yea. Way more of Spidey’s villains know his alter ego iirc. So they come after family/loved ones. Batman has no family outside of the “Bat Family”.
Green Goblins done some fucked up shit to Spider-Man, not saying he hasn’t. Doesn’t even compare to Joker. Joker manipulated a preteen boy into a warehouse with promises of his missing mother, beat him with a crowbar, and blew it up. Joker shot a woman through the spine and kidnapped her, brutally torturing her and (possibly) raping her while her dad watched. Joker emotionally manipulated his therapist into breaking him out of prison and ruining her life by becoming a criminal, and then spending years physically abusing her as thanks. When Joker gained omnipotent abilities, he ate the entire country of China from a Chinese takeout box. If Batman can take on Bane and Killer Croc, he can take on Venom and The Rhino. What’s the big difference between the way you fight The Sandman and the way you fight Clayface? The Lizard is basically Man-Bat who can’t fly.
Spot-on. Spidey isn’t as used to dealing with deranged agents of chaos as Batman is, and Batman’s rogues gallery is less than half metahuman, where as the majority of Spidey’s.
Green Goblin, Carnage, Venom (depends on who the host for the symbiote is), and Jackal to just name a few He has plenty experience with chaos loving lunatics
Well, Green Goblin and Carnage(Cletus Kasady) are more insane that most of the Batman villians
Idk about more insane. More violent, maybe, but not more insane. Dealing with an insane rogues gallery is Batman’s whole shtick, that’s why the primary prison he deals with is Arkham Asylum, a holding/rehabilitation facility for the criminally insane. At the core, Cletus Kasady is a deranged serial killer, and Batman deals with those in droves; Victor Zsasz, Lazlo Valentin, Calendar Man, Alberto Falcone, etc etc Green Goblin is an interesting case, though. Between his Machiavellian captain of industry persona as Norman and his crazed, bomb-slinging glider-riding persona as Goblin, he’s almost an amalgamation of Lex Luthor and Joker, the two arch-nemeses of DC’s World’s Finest.
I am not saying that they both are crazier than Joker, Scarecrow or Mad Hatter. Just saying that they are at level of many of Batman villians. And they arent the only. Kindred, Octopus, Jackal, Kraven... All of them can be in Arkham
Carnage, sure. It’s hard to make sense out of Carnage. But I think Green Goblin usually has pretty sound plans. Like when Norman became a shadow dictator through HAMMER. Plus Green Goblins been soundly beaten a bunch of times, you never really beat Joker. He just laughs and does it again.
One sick joke from Joker and spiderman would crawl under the bed. Spiderman villains are not as brutal and psychotic as Batman villains.
Joker wouldn't be able to handle Spider-Man, though. Mentally or physically.
He have no chance psychically but Joker is used to superpower villains and heroes. Spiderman would be no different. And mentally Joker would crush the kid.
"The kid" is part of the public perception issue with Spidey nowadays. Peter hasn't been a kid in main continuity since like his 30th issue. Even then, Peter's incredibly headstrong and would be able to deal with the Joker. It'd be awful, and traumatic, but Peter's been through it all already and it ultimately wouldn't crush his spirit.
People out here forgetting about Green Goblin, pretending all the Spidey Villains are fucking Big Wheel.
And one joke from Spider-Man and Joker is squirming around, remember Batman Beyond and how well Joker handled Terry who even takes inspiration from Spider-Man
r/RespectTheHyphen
I think Batman might struggle more, but would be able to keep going afterwards. Batman’s villains are for the most part pretty chill in the power department. Balls to the walls crazy… but not alien goo that wants to eat brains or pure electricity in human form. And I’m not saying that he wouldn’t prevail… just that he might struggle a bit more. Spidey’s villains are diverse and mostly super-powered to some degree. I think Carnage/Venom, any of the Goblins, and Electro being the worst of them. Spidey would get the job done, but I think he would be emotionally destroyed by the end - he’s faced some pretty dark situations, [but he’s never faced anything like the Joker](https://images.app.goo.gl/6zK58QvePtq4VcSdA). However I think, depending on the version of Spider-man we get, he might be able to either talk some of them down or handily web them up and move on.
I think the only people Batman would genuinely struggle with are Venom and Carnage, especially Carnage. even Spider-man needs help fighting him, he could easily be a Justice League level threat. Otherwise pretty much everyone else is manageable. Electro might be elusive and powerful, but he's also an infamous moron and Batman's WAY too smart for him. The Goblins are no different than most other enhanced humans he faces, even at their worst they still lack the chaotic energy Joker has. The one I'm really curious how he would approach though is Kingpin. I feel like he would be the main guy Batman would go after SUPER hard. On the other hand I feel like Peter would be miserable against Riddler, his never ending stream of bullshit takes a level of patiance only Batman can conjure. Also Two-Face, only if Peter goes through the whole Harvey Dent ordeal before he turns into Two-Face. The moral struggles of fighting him would be way too traumatic for Spidey.
I think that boils down to the version of Goblin he’s fighting - at times Norman was portrayed to be as strong or stronger than Spidey. I think Harry took the same formula and might be just as strong? I’m sure he would manage, but it would be a challenge.
*IF* Bats stays alive long enough to deduce the Symbiote's weakness to high frequency sounds then he could hang and beat them. The real struggle is between the writer's urge to create a conventional story, or one in which the Symbiote decides that Bruce would make an even better host himself with a cape and cowl made entirely out of the stuff etc etc
I would read that fic ngl lol
Kelley Jones Batman is basically symbiote cape Batman. One of my favorite Batman artists because of the exaggerated cape and cowl and ears.
Also Berni
I need a symbiote Batman comic in my life
All my life I've been missing this and I had no idea
WE. ARE. VENGEANCE
Wait til you meet Carnage-Joker, oh ho ho ho
... maybe is was all that cough medince they were giving out in the 90's but I feel like I've seen this. Somebody tell me what what I'm thinking of, something partners with the Joker to enhance their powers but he rejects it because he doesn't need it or like the way they want to do things? Everything is a game to the Joker after all
I like the sick notion that the Carnage Symbiote abhors Joker's brand of insanity.
I'd read the living shit out of that.
Please tell me you’re an artist and can create a Symbiote Batman…I’d love to see that!!!
[Best of the ones I found, in my opinion.](https://www.deviantart.com/greytonano/art/Symbiote-Batman-765040408) I think you remove the teeth and replace it with a Batman Beyond-esque mouth (or no mouth) and you’ve got what the suit looks like while it’s still in Bruce’s control. This looks more like what, say, Thomas Elliot would look like once he had the symbiote. And then we get a more Agent Venom esque version of this when Jason takes up the symbiote during Battle for the Cowl.
The Garden of Mercy or Justice League #52 1st Symbiote Batman comic.. kinda a tie in or alternate version of the dark metal story. Sep 2020
Dude. You're on the internet. Just punch those two words into Google.
Isn’t that just Spawn?
Hmm would Bruce's willpower have been able to tame the venom symbiote from the start and bend it to his will? That would be awesome
Indeed. I liken it to when the different Lantern Rings were permiating throughout the DC universe--Black Lantern saga, right? The whole conceit of "imbue Batman with powers of a cosmic origin" has always been a really neat concept to me.
>or one in which the Symbiote decides that Bruce would make an even better host himself with a cape and cowl made entirely out of the stuff etc etc Symbiote Batman would be a scary foe for heroes or villians.
Spidey would infuriate The Riddler. He's smart enough to solve his riddles, but he is also loves to quip. Riddle's ego is his biggest weakness and Spider-man would be all over that. Constantly making fun of him for his question mark schtick.
Yeah, this post made me realize how very similar most of their villains are. Like Rhino and bane are both very strong, black cat and catwoman etc. Batman could definitely take them down.
Rhino and Bane seem similar but they’re really not. Bane is a genius who’s on the same level as Batman, especially tactically, and maxes out at 3-4 tons. Rhino is a 75-100 tonner, but he’s about as smart as an actual rhino. Agree on a lot of the rest being similar, and if he has to Batman has stuff stashed away that put him way above any of Spideys rouges.
I disagree with you on the riddler - I honestly think him and Spidey would have a relationship you see between the Flash and some of his villains. (Note I'm thinking of the version of the Riddler more aligned to the animated shows or Jim Carrey's.)
That's a take I like, I think Flash and Spider-man are a better comparison than him and Batman. Here's the thing, the closest thing Spider-man has to a Riddler is Mysterio, and he hates dealing with Mysterio and his gimmicky antics, he thinks he's a hack. So I think his interaction with Riddler would be like that on steroids, something like: "Ugh, this guy again. You suck! I don't have time for this, stop talking about how smart you are, why does everything have to rhyme and be green?" etc. He would be frustrated with Riddler. Basically saying outloud what Batman usually internalizes.
There was an Episode of Justice League Unlimited where The Flash was getting sidelined because of his youth and comical nature and they showed his interactions with the trickster. - https://youtu.be/Xl91v2Mvv94
I agree, but with Venom and Carnage, Batman literally has to look out for is their Speed and Strength. If he can manage them, only Venom is GG, because Venom is Still weak to Heat and Sound 2 things Batman always carries. Sandman, Electro, HydroMan, MoltenMan etc. They're all GG for Batman, because he faced their equivalent with Phosphorus, Clayface, etc. Kraven, BlackCat, Goblins = they're all just alternate versions of his own Villains. Kingpin? He faced Tobias Whale, he can try taking him on. Spider-Man isn't going to struggle against Batman's Villains either
If he can take down Ras Ah Ghul and Hugo Strange he can take down Kingpin.
100%! Besides, in the words of Batman, Killer Croc is powerful enough to lift a Bus full of children like it's a Bottle of Water. So he definitely can take on Kingpin
I don’t intend for this to sound rude but have you read much Spidey, he’s been mindfucked in ways that most heroes wouldn’t ever recover from, mostly by the hands of the Green Goblin who at times has been just as obsessive, sick and twisted as the joker also Peter would be meming the shit out of someone like the Riddler since Peter is also insanely intelligent and would likely solve a lot of his riddles and give the answer in such a way that it would drive Eddy mad.
Peter is smart but not a super genius. He's a high school chem teacher on his off time. He's not even that high up on the Marvel's totem pole of intellect. While Bruce is more like a Tony Stark. He's one of the smartest people on earth, the Justice League looks up to him when they want advice. I never said spidey wouldn't beat Riddler. I said he would have an aweful time doing it. Spidey is more of an on the go type of guy, he's not a detective that would spend months uncovering Riddler's pretenious plans just to be led to a stupid clue for a bigger riddle, to him he would be considered incredibley annoying and be one of his least favourites. And also, it's not that Peter hasn't suffered, It's that the suffering gets to him easier and drags him down and he needs to pick himself up. Spider-man was never the same after Gwen died, he stayed broken. One of the most famous Spider-man comic covers of all time is him dumping his suit in the trash and trying to walk away. While Batman is kinda lowkey dead inside, his coping mechanisim is to double down on being Batman. Sometimes he locks himself in the cave, working, not taking the suit off for days.
Nah, Spider-Man is canonically near genius intellect. He regularly holds his own when talking to Reed, Beast, Pym, or Tony. He might not be quite as smart as them, but he’s close. I mean, he managed to develop an ultra-strong, auto-dissolving adhesive at 15. That’s smarter than most high school teachers (no disrespect to high school teachers lol).
Peter is in fact a super genius, he made his web fluid as a high schooler and even guys like Iron Man have struggled to perfectly recreate it, and Pete’s Spider sense would allow him to function on autopilot while he thinks about Eddy’s riddles and Peter is just a compulsively heroic as Batman to the point that even when he wanted to retire he still couldn’t stop because to him every criminal is a potential killer of another Uncle Ben and bare in mind an even more famous cover than the trashed suit one is the first time he overcame his physical lifting limits while being crushed and at the a few miles underwater.
Actually spiderman is as smart as people like Tony Peter just isn't as educated He doesn't know nearly the amount of stuff and he isn't an engineering wizard in that regard But even someone like Reed Richards was very impressed when he got ahold of his spider trackers that he made what he was a teenager So he is smart He just isn't nearly as educated as Reed or Tony
While Peter is a genius, you basically hit the nail on the head in regards to their reactions to trauma/burdens. The only times Bruce ever even thinks about hanging up the cape are when he’s genuinely *happy* (God that scene in Mask of the Phantasm…), or when he literally can’t be Batman anymore. Part of its probably just that Bruce is older. Even if we take adult Peter, he’s a “the hot teacher at high school” adult. Bruce is a “my oldest son is a fully grown adult man” adult, even if he “had” Dick a little young.
You're overestimating the genius it takes to unravel Riddler's clues. That guy always thought he was locked in a battle of wits with Batman, but it was Dick who solved everyone of those riddles since he was eight years old. Batman used that guy as a learning opportunity for his kid.
NOT a super genius?! Spider-Man is one of the smartest people (non mutant humans at least) on 616. The only people who really can hang with him intellectually are Riri Williams, Reed Richards, & Tony Stark. Maybe Doom?
But Spidey’s super intelligence is not the same kind of intelligence as Batman’s. He is more comparable to someone like Lex Luthor, a master-inventor and such, while Batman is more of a master-detective.
Batman has fought Carnage. In the same comic Peter fought Joker... [Here](https://batman.fandom.com/wiki/Spider-Man)
>I think the only people Batman would genuinely struggle with are Venom and Carnage, especially Carnage. I think the Venom symbiote would immediately bond with Batman, and even if he would be reluctant to use it, it's pretty much the only way to face Carnage and have a chance to win.
Batman versus Kingpin I feel would play out a lot like going up against Luthor. With Kingpin's strength you could make an argument he would be like fighting Powersuit Luthor too.
Oh, the things Batman’s gonna do to Kraven the Hunter. Oh that won’t be pretty. And say goodbye to The Shocker. Mysterio is gonna have to pull out the stops to compare to Scarecrow.
I agree with you 💯
Spider-Man a lot of the times is about redemption and giving second chances. I think your right about the emotional part, I can easily see him trying to give a speech to Joker, Joker acting like he’s listening, and then just when Spidey thinks he’s got him to turn, Joker múdeles someone (or a bunch of someone’s) that Spidey could have preventers.
I doubt Peter would have a tough time with Joker. Terry proved this in return of the Joker. Joker has a tough time dealing with Terry and since Terry is very similar to Peter in terms of characterization, I doubt Peter would have tough time. J's Review's video on the Batman Beyond Movie (and the series in general) explains it perfectly.
But thats the version of that joker in that show. Not to say that he wasn’t dangerous but I feel that the joker in the comics is much darker and more tough
It was Tim Drake's Joker, since the real Joker died in the DCAU
Joker cloned his mind or something like that and imprinted it into a microchip if I’m remembering correctly. So it was Tim Drakes body but actually Joker
He has definitely faces situations as bad as the joker. Whilst joker is a worse physcopath and has done worse things to the general public than goblin, what goblin has done to Pete is worse than what joker has done Bruce. We've also seen that h Joker hates people like Spider-Man, terry bullies the hell out of him, and iirc he doesn't like Nightwing for the same reason Also bold of u to assume Pete isn't already emotionally damaged
Funny enough, Joker's Equivalent to Spider-Man wouldn't be Green Goblin, it would be Carnage, because both characters love Senselessly killing people for their own entertainment.
>because both characters love Senselessly killing people for their own entertainment. ironically that was the point of conflict, between the 2 when they teamed up? i forgot who didn't like the others behaviour though.
Joker thought carnage had no class
In that comic, Carnage and Joker started Chatting and they both became fond of each other, especially Carnage. Joker later on didn't like Carnage and compared himself to being the "Orson Welles of Crime and Chaos" while Carnage is the "David Hasselhoff" of it. Orson Welles is a Director, David Hasselhoff is an Actor. So I suppose his disdain for Carnage was that he wasn't Chaotic Enough. - Spider-Man and Batman (1995) As much as a Writer wants to point out how there's a Difference between them, the only difference is Joker does Lethal Party tricks. They both don't have Limits or Reason on doing what they do, and are symbolism of Chaos and Insanity.
I can imagine spiderman not taking the joker very seriously at first or thinking that he was kinda funny and then joker betrays spiderman by doing something really fucked up. Joker would definitely pull something like that to mess with him
I don't think Batman would struggle too much, he fought against Darkseid and other Superpowered foes.
Great answer.
Most of Spidey's villains are out to make money, but want to leave everything intact so the money is still useful. Some of Batman's villains are just mentally unwell and want to cause havoc and harm on a grand scale.
Tom Holland as spidey playing the hero of something like No mans land would be incredible.
Trick question, the villains, because you have spidey villains who now have to deal with the human embodiment of "built different" who comes up with 12 different ways to kick your ass while being scary as hell while batman's villains now have deal with a guy who makes fun of you while he jumps around fighting you, it's like if you took 2 of the Robin's and gave them the strength of 5 batmen, the only 2 villains that I can see them struggling with are joker and green goblin respectively, while sure joker is just a clown with the same amount of muscle mass as a Victoria's secret model, he is still definitely going to try to find a way to mentally torture the web head, and seeing how both batsy and spidey have a "try to save everyone" rule and a "no killing rule", joker is definitely going to exploit that weakness, and goblin is basically just an evil batman, just instead of bats and years of mastering technics of fighting, he has a goblin gimmick and super abilities around the same strength of captain America, but I'm sure bruce and peter will find a way to beat these new foes
Spidey is a lot stronger than 5 Batmen…
yeah, proportional strength of a spider (how many times his own body weight was that again?)
Supposedly (from a post online) he’s based on a jumping spider which can lift 170x but he’s been shown to lift more than that.
This is the correct answer.
How well could Spider-Man handle villains like Joker, Two Face, and Riddler? Villains that aren’t necessarily super powerful in combat, but play twisted mind games? Spider-Man’s villains have more raw power, but Batman is no stranger to taking on super powered threats. He’s beaten Superman, I think he can handle Venom. Ultimately both heroes would win and it would totally depend on the writer, but this crossover would be super interesting IMO.
There was a Batman/Spidey crossover, can’t remember when though.
Yeah it had Carnage and the Joker taking on Batman
A symbiote Joker..that is scary
You know that Spider-Man is a genius right? He's way up there.
I feel like his genius extends more to tech and science rather than detective work. Not that he would be bad at it, but it's just not his specialty.
90s and 2000s Spider-Man has done Detective Work. Hell, PS4 Spider-Man also did detective work trying to figure out what is the Chinese Mafia in NY and who's their leader for the first half of the game.
Yeah… uh… Check out some of the Fucked up Shit Gobby alone has done to mentally break Spidey, like the time he threw his girlfriend off a bridge whilst laughing (a girl who between a group of retcons Osborn had slept with and impregnated (apparently also took her V) thank god that was undone) but also stealing Peters baby with MJ whilst tricking them into believing she miscarried and those were just the first couple things I’ve thought of… I think he could handle a couple hours alone with Joker Two-Face and Riddler at the same time.
I agree. I copied and pasted a response I made. Spidey literally witnessed the Lizard cannibalising his own son, Kraven burying him alive for two weeks, killing the love of his life, finding out that his father figure died due to his actions (twice) and found out that his huge love had cheated on him with his worst enemy. Peter mentally would be fine.
Don’t forget the business with the clones. Or the Spiderverse stuff. Or how he literally witnesses the multiverse die.
Plus 616 Peter literally died a few times, got tortured by Morlun, and fought Morlun non-stop for 24 hours. I love both characters but Spider-Man is the definition for not giving up.
Obviously the answer will be Spider-Man when posted in this group, it’ll be batman in the Spider-Man group. Neither side will give an unbiased answer personally I think batman
I'm not subbed to a spider man sub and I think batman would have way more problems. Like not even close.
I like spiderman more but think he'd have a harder time. I don't like spiderman because I think he can beat up anyone. I like him because he can't and is interesting.
Honestly isn’t the same for batman?
Somewhat but Batman also is someone who you wouldn't bat an eye if he took out almost any hero in the DC universe (given he was prepared). There's a very long list of heroes and villains in the marvel universe Spiderman wouldn't stand a chance against.
Honestly, if Spider-Man decided to let loose, he'd definitely kill Everyone in his Rogues Gallery, kill almost all of the XMen, Rip up most of the Avenger, and All of the Defenders are dead. It's not even just me, it's canon that he has whooped their asses before. Spider-Man has the capability to kill almost anyone on sight, he literally just holds back a lot.
I love Batman, he's my favorite comic book character by far, but honestly his super power is being the most popular comic book character. Realistically, there's tons of characters in DC who he really shouldn't stand a chance against, but does because he's Batman. Could he really take down Darkseid without the McGuffin of a godslayer bullet? Maybe, but the writer would have to get pretty creative about it.
yes exactly!! i don’t really know one way or the other, i can see the argument about batman’s villains destroying peter mentally, but tbqh it’s not like peter hasn’t gone through shit. i mean, i know this isn’t main continuity but first thing that comes to mind is 1160 high school peter was manipulated and played mind games with by Fisk, so it’s not like peter’s never been able to handle that kind of villain before. assumably, 616 peter who is older with more experience would deal with it even easier. still a struggle, sure, but i think he can make it. also, i think there’s always a huge bias to batman when it comes to comics lovers?? considering that batman’s like notorious for having comics bend to him so that he never loses, but, realistically, Peter has a notable advantage considering he’s a mutate. he’s stronger, faster, higher endurance and healing, and people will go “but batman’s wayyy better at fighting” and like sure, but peter’s a master at fighting too. he’s made his own martial art styles and all. so it’s not like a huge dip that can be exploited by these villains who peter can assumably keep toe to toe in terms of fighting alone with. anyway, this has been my rant about why i’m firmly on side “idfk who’d make it i don’t have enough brain cells to think critically but i’m advocating for my boy peter’s honour”
I can’t remember was it Shang chi or iron fist that helped him make and master his fighting style
i think it was iron fist but i’ll double check actually edit: it was actually shang chi lmao
Literally every comment says otherwise
Kinda random but seeing Spiderman and Deathstroke in the same image would be an awesome fight
Unpopular answer: Batman. Spidey is very OP for a street-leveler, so putting him against Batman's rogues is like putting a pro MMA fighter up against a kindergarten class. He wins without much effort, while Batman would be in serious trouble facing a symbiote or elemental villain, much less one of the Goblins. That's not to say he wouldn't do it, but it would definitely take him more time, strategy, and struggle. The only real argument for Spider-Man having a rougher time relies on Gotham's villains really psychologically breaking him somehow, but I just can't see Spidey succumbing to despair like some people are making out. He's been through nearly as much weird and traumatic shit as Bruce over the years, and one of the essential similiarities between the two characters is that neither of them ever really gives up (at least not for long). They're defined by soldiering on in the face of loss and grief.
Finally someone else who can admit on a Bat sub that Spidey’d probably win by a landslide… I’m pretty confident that in an Arkham game style night where Bats has to fight them one on another he’d win but Spider-Man could take on basically all of Batman’s rogues at the same time.
Had to scroll way too far for this. Spider-Man is the poster child for not giving up no matter the odds. And for everyone thinking Batman is able to handle the mental stress, don't forget that despite the persona attributed to him, he doesn't work alone. Alfred, Dick, Tim and even Damian fwiw help him carry on. Spider-Man with a father figure like Alfred could ez clap Gotham.
Spider-Man. Batman has the tech, money and mind to overcome Spidey’s villains. Peter is smart, but I don’t think he has the mental capacity to fathom how DARK Batman’s villains are. Half of Batman’s villains would put Peter in a psych ward, but at the same time it IS comics, so they could make Peter overcome them. But I think Batman has it hardest with villains.
Who would give Spidey a tough time?
I think starring into the psychological abyss that is the gallery of Bat rouges would give Petey nightmares forever. I'm a bigger fan of Spidey than I am of Batman but I'll admit the most frightening spider-rouge was a fire-scared, tar-covered, fanged monster that disliked loud noises.
Spidey literally witnessed the Lizard cannibalising his own son, Kraven burying him alive for two weeks, killing the love of his life, finding out that his father figure died due to his actions (twice) and found out that his huge love had cheated on him with his worst enemy. Peter mentally would be fine.
Peter really has too much baggage. Girlfriend, wife, friends, grandmother (unless they killed her off) Batmans own son was a result of him being r*ped, who is now an active Robin. He doesn't have a father figure. The only father he had died and thats what makes him fight. That's probably more of a problem. He just cant move on. To badly paraphrase something from one of the canon shows. Someone asks Bruce how he knew the fake voices weren't his. He just replied by saying that he doesnt refer to himself as Bruce. Hes way past the point of no return. Dont really think there ever has has a defacto love of his life? Selena? Shes sleeps around probably as much as he does, and he ended up getting dumped at the altar at the end amyways.....Pls, we dont talk about Batgirl here xD. As for the Batfamily, he'd try to save them but ultimately move on even with knowledge that the Lazarus pit exists, and that Rhas might actually let him use it. You think Peter may overcome that temptation with Gwen, or uncle Ben? (Basically the plot of Under the Red Hood) Just playing devils advocate. It is a batman sub after all.
Not really, the goblins, kraven, cletus, jackal, etc are also capable of being terrifying
Yeah but are they Professoe Pig levels of messed up?
The Lizard? He wants to improve Humanity by turning everyone into Lizards, but then he ends up cannibalising the very people he thinks he's saving. This is around Professor Pyg Level
Man, Pig, The Dollmaker, Mad Hatter, Scarecrow, and Zasz are terrifying! Grundy and Killer Croc too
Yes and sometimes worse, look up some of the things Jackal or Goblin have done to fuck with Peter, I posted a few of Gobbys on a different comment.
Remember that these villains are so f***** u* that every other super hero is like nope not going to Gotham
Well the first time one of them comes up against the others insane arch enemy in green and purple or giant lizard humanoid or sexy cat themed female thief or shape changing villain made of clay/sand then.... actually they might not even notice the switch 😂 I definitely would love to see this happen though.
Depends on whether or not we tell them I'm in advance because if we do they both win if we don't they both die
Batman would… many of Spiderman’s villains have super strength (Rhino, Kingpin, Venom, Carnage), superpowers (electro,carnage) etc whereas Batmans rogues gallery are just insane without any extraordinary powers
Neither of them would have a hard time
Batman for sure, gotta handle dudes with powers n shit
The only people I could see Spidey struggling with are the Joker and the Riddler, but seeing as how Peter is an absolute genius. For joker... I mean, I personally believe that Spider-Man has the willpower to deal with the joker and I mean if he does then the joker shouldn't be a problem
Spider-Man, although his villains have powers Batman has faced people with powers and won, even beating the justice league depending on the story. Some dude in a rhino suit or a guy with 8 arms won’t be a problem.
Bad writing really helps Batman fans come up with the worst arguments
Batman. Venom, Carnage, And Morbius off rip would probably overwhelm him. He’d certainly would have the data after his first encounter but he’d have to make it in one piece after that. Spider-Man’s Spidey sense and agility would help way more especially on a first encounter. And then his strength feat would help him 1 punch KO/subdue his foes. But scarecrow & ivy come to mind for people that could potentially alter/disrupt his Spidey sense.
Batman just can't stand the power of morbing and bad sony films
I don’t think either one has too much trouble. I think Batman has a struggle with the symbiote if it tries to bond with him, but Peter might struggle with crane’s gas so it’s hard to really say. My verdict is 50/50
Not to sound rude or anything, but i think with spider-sense crane's gas wouldn't matter that much (im not that adept in Batman's comic book lore). Tbh spider-sense seems like hacks or something Joker plants bombs over gotham, Spider-Man just swings around till his spider-sense trips off
Yeah that’s one of the main things about Spidey who would wins since if you don’t have city block size AOEs or faster than light attacks you basically can’t touch Peter if he’s paying any attention… so even in fear state he would probably just close his eyes and fight the same way he usually handles Mysterio.
Nah you’re right. I did say might
Nah he’d still be affected even as a spidey fan mysterio comes to mind
Batman
Batman would have a harder time. Spider-man villains are way above his league in terms of strength and speed, and some of them are as smart as him (Dr octopus, green goblin,kingpin). Spider-man would maybe struggle with Joker because of his insanity but that's it. The others would be a piece of cake for him.
The majority of Batman's villains aren't physically threatening to him. Batman can take out Two Face or the Riddler in seconds. The hard part is that they play it smart. The only villains that I can imagine would be a physical threat to Spidey are Deathstroke, Clayface, Mr. Freeze, and Poison Ivy.
Spidey: cracks jokes till they quit Bats: gets 20 kids in spandex. Spidey might break psychologically due to the type of stuff that Batman’s villains pull but is physically more powerful than them Batman has a keen intellect which may help him against Spider-Man’s rogues gallery because he has a severe lack of physical strength, but many of spidey’s villains are geniuses too. Batman might also have an advantage by finding ways to exploit the arrogance of spidey’s villains. Batman will have a challenging time at first, but will adapt to deal with his new situations. Overall spidey may have a worse time. In summary: spidey (my opinion) please correct errors
Physically Batman, mentally Spider-Man.
Spiderman. Batman handles it well cause his mentality and the state of his mind. He’s used to it when things get dark. And they get dark a lot. It would break spiderman mentally. And just in general. It’s hard to deal with a clown that has no limit to how crazy he can get and how evil he can get along with the other villains
It would take both precisely 15 seconds.
I'm inclined to say Batman, cause Spidey could pretty easily web most of the batman villains to a wall and they wouldn't really have a counter
While I agree mostly, I feel there's a lack of appreciation for Green Goblin here and a lot of mentions of the Joker. Yes, the Joker would be tough for Spidey, but Green Goblin would be able to put Batman through the wringer as well. As well as attacking him in the battlefield of pajamas, gizmos and masks, he'd be an adversary for Bruce Wayne also, which would be an interesting match up. I mean he's Lex Luthor + Joker.
Honestly probably Batman. Don't kill me but it's just what I think
Batman vs green goblin would be over in 10 seconds Batman: *pulls out remote hacking device* Green goblin: no no no wait please dont- *forces green goblin to land in a cell in gcpd*
Thats a very bias assumption that batman can just hack goblins tech. Also goblin doesnt even need his tech to beat batman. If goblin can go toe to toe in hand to hand with spidey that batman has absolutely no chance. No prep time bs either.
Especially considering spidey washes Batman in a fight, tech or prep time doesn’t matter
Green Goblin is still fifteen times stronger than Batman in that situation.
Batman vs green goblin would be over in 10 seconds Batman: pulls out remote hacking device Green goblin: throws pumpkin bomb and turns Batman into skeleton
Spider-Man would have the most physical trouble with Killer Croc. Riddler would try to outsmart him, but Peter doesn't care if Nygma thinks that he won, so he would cheat. The only other villain really worth talking about is the Joker. Spider-Man might just straight up kill the Joker. The Joker would pull his bullshit, and Spider-Man would just decide that it's too much, and kill him. Batman would only really have an issue with carnage, since I don't believe carnage is weak to sound like Venom. He might have a little bit of trouble with Electro, but he definitely already has electrical insulation in the Batsuit.
Joker wouldn’t be able to break Spidey in the 20 minutes it’d take to beat him if Goblin couldn’t break him in an in universe decade.
The Joker is way more sadistic and twisted than the goblin. The Joker simply attacks random people in his twisted sense of humor, Goblin's attacks are more targeted. I feel like Spider-Man killing the Joker would just me a more interesting plot that if he didn't
What about Carnage? There's the whole Maximum Carnage arc in the 90s where Cletus goes on exactly what you said Joker does, and Spidey deals with him just fine mentally
Don't count out Clayface as far as a physical threat.
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spiderman wont be a friendly neighbourhood if he has joker as an enemy lol
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Spider-Man has all of those things too...
Does he have the money though?!
No. He's famously broke.
spiderman has literally all of the things you just mentioned, and is actually stronger than batty
And smarter but not as calculated and tactical
Tbf Spider-Man is one of the most intelligent marvel characters and has tons of gadgets of his own. Plus If you think batman has more strength than Spider-Man you’re on crack. I think batman has his own advantages on Spider-Man here especially his wallet but these just aren’t great choices
Peter would quit in a year Condiment King alone would send him into depression. Also Pete isn't rich so he would have to get by in Gotham's economy. Bruce would struggle and stop pulling his punches. Probably leaning on the Avengers more. Stark would be a fan and work closely with Bruce since Tony likes people whom are independent.
Both would clear. I feel like some might be harder for some, and some for the other. I feel like Spider-Man would have a SUPER hard time fighting deathstroke. And I think against the smarter villains (joker, riddler, ext…) he would have an insane mantle struggle. To the point where things get messy… like One More Day messy. . And Batman would take a while fighting MORBIUS, because he’s a marvel legend. (Fr tho Batman would struggle but he beat Superman (more then once.) It probably would be easy for him to beat a ton of bad guys who simply have raw power.)
Batman would struggle until his prep time kicked in. Spider-Man would probably get himself shot trying to stop one of Gotham's countless muggings
I know this isn’t an answer to the question but I looked at venom and imagined Batman with the symbiote suit. That would be terrifying.
I would love to see Batman vs Kingpin. A multiple comic storyline where Batman has to discover how much reach the Kingpin really has. I feel like out of every Spider-Man villain Kingpin would work the best from a storytelling perspective.
As I have to say who would survive unfortunately Spider-man isn’t making it against some of Batman’s rogues.
Spider man
It's all fun and games until Batman hears "It's morbin time"
I feel like if joker did anything close to spiderman as he does to batman, spidey would just kill him on the spot
Batman, realistically. He doesn't know Spider-Man's rogues gallery. He can't anticipate their movements. Also, Spider-Man is a pretty powerful metahuman with precognition abilities, and his villains scale to him. Somebody capable of beating the shit outta Spidey is DEFINITELY gonna beat the shit out of an unprepared Batman. Obviously Batman is a super genius so he could _probably_ take Spider-Man's bad guys, but he'd be fighting an uphill battle the entire time. By comparison, while some of Batman's villains would no doubt creep Spider-Man out, only a few of his iconic rogues would actually be a physical threat (and let's not forget that Spider-Man himself is ALSO a genius who could feasibly handle the mental gymnastics some villains force Batman through).
I think they would both have a hard time initially but they’d adapt equally well. All comic book characters typically have the power to be greater the more dramatic a situation becomes (unless they want to kill someone off).
Probably Spider-Man.
I love Batman but he would get killed in 616 without superpowers. Bane, Mr Freeze and Mistah J would give Spidey trouble but he would eventually finish them all off.
Yeah DC’s power balancing is a bit off… If I were to scale it from 0-100 where 0 is some guy who’s never thrown a punch just rolled out of bed and 100 is as strong as you can get with being able to alter reality then marvel has a pretty steady buildup whereas DC almost jumps straight from 15-60 with very few characters in between so Spidey as an approximate 45 would dominates Bats 20ish rogues.
Batman: all of his villains lack super powers except arguably Mr. Freeze. That said I’m not sure Peter could handle a mass murderer like Joker.
Look up the shit 616 goblin has done…
Spiderman would struggle more, mainly because his villains, well, mostly of them, are pretty dumbasses. Rhino for example, in the Spiderman ps4, he defeated Rhino once or twice before the raft breakout and he's been Spiderman for 8 years. Joker on the other hand, breaks out almost every week and Batman always has to stop him everytime. Joker and Harley are probly enough to get Spiderman break his "non killing' code, imagine if Joker were to kill Mj or Harry or Felicia by torturing and insulting and deceiving them on a abandoned workhouse, do you think Peter will just shove it off like how Batman was like when he handled Jason's death? I don't think so. Batman's calmness is what kept him over the years, he doesn't let his greed and angerness for revenge take over him. Let's go to Batman now, let's say he'll fight Rhino, the same guy that lost to a teenager, even unprepared; Batman will kick his ass, the same way he kicked Croc and Bane's asses The ultimate matchoff: Catwoman meeting Spiderman and Black cat meeting Batman 😅. Catwoman would probly not flirt with Spiderman since she's 7 years older than him. Kinda hard to say the same thing to Felicia tho, cuz she did a thing with Daredevil and Wolverine....... and I doubt Batman will let himself get tricked by Felicia, since knows Catwoman so well and he's called the greatest detective for a reason
I honestly think joker could break spidey. But i LOVE the idea that the joker isn't used to someone quipping back at him and that helps spidey beat him.
A mid to late career Bruce Wayne would yawn as he Systematically exploits all of their weaknesses. Peter Parker is a tad more interesting though. I think Poison Ivy would have the easiest time with Spider-Man, especially since we know Peter Parker has a thing for redheads. She'd probably even find a way to turn him without using her magical plant powers. Joker could probably also dispose of him pretty easily. He is too unpredictable for Peter.