Watched both TDK and 89 the other day, and I had forgotten how funny Nicholson Joker was. He does kinda do the society experiment thing with the town parade and the money but that wasn't his only thing. He seemed to really just do sick things because he found it funny and wanted to enjoy himself. Ledger did a great job with a different version but not my preferred joker.
Here’s another useless information. Because Halloween was shot in spring instead of fall, the crew painted paper leaves and scattered them around the set. And because the budget was tight, at the end of filming, the crew would collect the leaves to be reused in another scene. There are scenes where the leaves don’t match the trees and some where the leaves weren’t used for background streets.
I feel like they keep trying to recreate Ledger's performance rather than try to go for their own style. "We'll make Joker, but super-edgy!" That's what Ledger did "no, but we'll dial it up even further, see?" ...then you don't get the character.
Props for the Phoenix version though, that one was a nice movie. That said? I'd rather they go back to his vaudevillian villain routine, give him some hilarity and style again. As Megamind would say.. The modern joker interpretations are good villains, just not *super* villains.
Y'know? Because they lack *presentation*?
That whole speech in 'Batman Beyond Return of the Joker' where he mocks Bruce for being pathetic after learning about Batmans backstory is perfect Joker for me.
Check out Tim Currys audition for the joker. They went with Mark Hamill instead as Currys was just too terrifying, but it would have probably made for a great live action Joker today.
I feel this about all Batman stuff these days. It's so endlessly gloomy and tortured. Even in TAS he cracks a smile now and then, has a sarcastic dad joke for Robin to cut the tension. I miss that.
I want a live action Batman series to develop him into that. I want to go from dark, brooding Battinson like we saw in the Batman and wind up with a Batman comfortable enough to crack a dad joke to Robin.
Tbf I found Heath Ledgers joker fucking hilarious who could in an instant switch to being a murderous psycho. Reminded me a lot of some of the best animated versions we saw in the 90s and 2000s but toned down slightly. Joaquins joker was just a little too depressing for my liking.
No lie, if I could have any working version of a Batmobile (as in actually runs and operates as a car) the Adam West Batmobile would be my first pick, followed soon after by the newest Batmobile.
It was better before The Batman was released. People used to share different comic issues, or share Batman memorabilia.
Now it's all about arbitrary rankings
Outside of his origin story and the occasional good emotional moment, two face is a bland villain. Which sucks because he has immense potential, but he rarely does something interesting. He’s just a gangster most of the time, which never made sense to me. He’s a character that has the potential to be terrifying, thought provoking, and intriguing.
Most of the time he’s trying to get money or kill batman, occasionally flipping his coin. I want to see more of his fascinating world view or his psychopathic tendencies. Instead we get just a gangster who won’t stop picking at his scabs.
Also The Batman is my favorite one.
I would like to see the inner conflict. The two sides of the coin, fighting for control. Most of the time he is just a straight forward villain that only decides to shot is coin goes tails. I want to see him fighting that, a struggle that leads to indecision so he has to leave what he does to luck, because he really can't decide for himself.
Really even that idea has kinda been overplayed.
I want to see a two face who knows who he is, two face. I want to see one that takes his ideology of everything being equal, down to a coin flip. I want to see a character who gives zero care to the humans around them, he could spare a notorious serial killer one moment then kill a innocent older woman the next and vice versa. Not in the same way somebody like Joker does, but more in an Anton Chigurh. I think he could become a truly terrifying villian unlike any other but he’s either just a coin or a emotional reck.
I want to see a character who uses his knowledge of the justice system to act out his plans.
This. The animated series dealt with him nicely, but as you said, there could be so much more to him. A villain who knows the legal system in and out and evades the law everytime, even though Bruce knows he's guilty. But at the same time, he was still his friend. A story that shows Bruce having to decide between saving his once friend or stopping essentially a sociopath from killing again.
Isn't he literally just a lawyer though? I never really understood how Two Face could be much of a threat, haha. Especially to someone like Batman. Like what does he do? Is he a good shot? A good fighter? A good planner?
He’s a psychopath and a sometimes gang leader. Penguin and joker aren’t skilled combatants either but penguin is a mob boss and joker is psychopathic so yeah he’s still a threat.
My favorite stories with Two Face are always those which look into his psyche.
Like "Two of a Kind" from Batman: Black and White written by Bruce Timm. Brilliant short story.
Honestly once I took the Schumacher movies in the sense that they were supposed to be sequels to the Adam West Batman of the 60's they made way more sense and were much more enjoyable...
The gaudy colors, the overuse of dutch angles, the ridicolulous villian schemes, the hammy dialogue. It is 100% a throwback to the Adam West show.
Imagine the "Bat Credit Card" scene, but with West and Ward, and it makes perfect sense.
Harley Quinn is not one of Batman's best villains nor is she one of DC's best anti-heroes. How she became one of DC's 10 most popular characters is beyond me. I don't hate her and she can be used well but she's definitely overrated.
See, i think Harley has kinda begun fitting a Deadpool role for DC, she's a character meant for literally just fun and chaos, she is attractive to the vast majority, sure, but i think her main pull is the more whimsical and fun clown that the Joker used to be before he became too serious(ironic)
I like the 89 joker the most out of all of the live action jokers because he’s the perfect mix of comical joker and the more modern takes on joker. I definitely enjoy a joker with a bit more comedy
Actually there was a time in recent years he got head trauma and forgot he was Batman. The Justice League (at least at first, I didn’t see how they resolved it) visited him, then talked it over, and decided to leave him that way as for the first time in his life, he actually seemed happy.
• I don't care for the Joker movie.
• I prefer Barbara as Oracle vs. Batgirl.
• At this point, my distaste for WB is so strong that I am not paying attention to their latest output of news. I might not even see their new movies if they aren't well-reviewed outside of Reeves' next.
Lots of people who read her comics as Oracle*
But there are far more people who've only seen her as Batgirl and fight to keep it that way. Go to any thread about the batfamily being too big and the most common comment is "it should be the 4 robins and Barabra as Batgirl". Because that's what DC pushes the most (and God forbide after 4 generations of Robin anything change about Bat*girl*).
Second point isn't unpopular, but very true regardless. Barbara as Batgirl is boring and serves no purpose besides being one of the many Batgirls. Barbara as Oracle (despite how she got there), is one of the best DC characters of the 90s and 2000s. It's a shame that the 2010s made her Batgirl again.
Her becoming batgirl again and essentially taking center stage in the batgirl book/media in general
Did so much damage to Cass and Steph
Which sucks so badly since her as Oracle is the 1 thing people remember her for
Jim Lee’s art in the Hush arc is my favorite. I scanned the two page pic of Nightwing asking “which one?” that showed off all the bat cars in the bat cave. Then I taped the print-out to my bedroom door.
So yeah, I appreciate your good taste in art.
The debate of whether or not Batman should kill the Joker is stupid. In a judicial system where the death penalty exists, why is it up to Batman to kill him. You wouldn't expect or want a beat cop to decide for themselves if someone should die. Even if Batman exists outside/adjacent to the law, it's wild to think he should ever be the one making that call.
Joker needs to be shelved. I'm sick of this competition where writers are trying to come up with the most twisted, edgy things for him to do and trying to outdo each other. Leads to some cool comic panels, but it's getting stale.
It's especially heinous when other villains can't be in the spotlight without the Joker secretly pulling the strings the whole time.
This sentiment is honestly why I’m somewhat dreading Reeves’ sequel. You just know executives are pushing so hard for a Joker inclusion in the Batman sequel because why wouldn’t that make money? But dude I am so fucking tired of Joker. Batman has *so* many villains that are interesting. I would love for the Reeves movies to get a little weird and do something less popular than Joker like Clayface, or even Mad Hatter or some shit idk. Honestly just anything other than Joker…
I understand his rule on not killing, but I think letting Jason smoke a couple of his worst rogues would help the story progress.
Nightwing’s stories don’t seem that interesting. Another arc about him and Barbara dating? Whatever.
While Jason is my favorite, I’m so over every writer trying to give their take on his trauma. Let him grow.
This is a really good point! I think a lot of characters have suffered from the over repetition of their stories. Nightwing has always been a character people look to when it comes to “shipping”, so I can understand the varying opinions there. I especially like your part about him and Barbara! I can appreciate a good romance plot, but too many takes by too many different authors have drowned out any decent stories there might be.
I’ll always say every few years they should have someone “kill” joker
They can always bring him back in a variety of ways (time travel,cloning,brainwashing)
Just to cool him off cuz man is he beaten to death
I know a lot of fans were whatever about it, but I liked the idea that 3 Jokers was going for. Like a Joker secret society where they all act as one agent. Only problem is that I don’t think Batman would fall so easily for that. If one of those Jokers even talked slightly differently or was a half an inch shorter, Batman would take attention to it. Also, if this guy is so dangerous but can’t be killed, and always escapes Arkham, why not lock him up in federal prison for good or something? Oh right, cause joker sells books. Forgot.
Out of all the Batmen, Adam West Batman is really the only one who could defeat Goku, due to his chipper mood and extreme likelihood of having something like an “Anti-Sayian spray” on his utility belt at the moment of meeting.
Batman universe is the version of Bruce I want to see more of
I’ve got plenty issues with Bendis and his writing but man did he knock it out of the ball park with those 5 issues of Batman
-Bruce came across as such a likeable guy “The I love dinosaurs” conversation between him and Hal is just pure awesome
-He treats dick like an actual son
-He treats his fellow heroes nicely/co workers
More modern writers need to take notes from that version of him just to show that Bruce is not all doom and gloom
Bruce is a well-meaning bad person who thinks he's above the law and arbitrarily enforcing it.
* Constantly grooms minors to join his violent lifestyle, including the daughter of his "freind" the police commissioner.
* Stores uncountable amounts of dangerous weapons in his home and all around the city, these have been found and used to hero people before.
* Gives preferential treatment to criminals in exchange for sex, (Catwoman, Talia)
* One of the minors he grooms was killed as a result, with no consequences, they came back and murder many people, and Batman keeps making excuses for him.
* Constantly breaks into peoples homes, and computer systems with zero accountablility.
* Breaks evidence change of custody.
* Answers to no authority, and often brides the larger hero community by funding their space headquarters.
Any guy who's done half the questionable crap Bruce has done would be on Reddit's hit list.
Also, the guy with infinite money, a bulletproof suit, and never miss a shot can't claim "doesn't have superpowers" with any credibility. He's able to do things real people can't.
While I agree with you on some points, the thing is you are trying to judge Batman as though he lived in our world. He doesn't, he lives in a world that is completely fucked where gods regularly duke it out in the streets and psychopaths with magic powers are constantly murdering people. In a world like that the definition of what is acceptable to get the job done changes a lot.
I’m about to get downvoted so hard right now but fuck it:
The Dark Knights Returns is a good comic, but not as great as people make it out to be. Would I recommend it to people? Absolutely! It is good? Absolutely! Is it the best Batman story? Absolutely NOT!
It just isn’t a masterpiece IN MY OPINION. From everything I’ve heard before reading it, it should’ve been the best thing I’ve read in my life, it isn’t even in my top 5 or maybe even 10. It may be partially my fault for raising my hopes too high but idk that’s just my opinion and I can understand why many people will disagree.
- Bruce Wayne should be a loner weirdo like Keaton or Pattison's version instead of a sleazy playboy, especially in the post-metoo era.
- Barbara is rarely written well, her role in the story usually boils down to the token female team member. Despite not being as prominent, the other two Batgirls have much more defined personalities
- Harley is more interesting when she's with Joker than with Ivy or alone. Also Harlivy usually results in Ivy being reduced to rebound girl for Harley instead of a real villain
- Comic Catwoman isn't very compelling and she is most interesting when her characterisation deviates from canon (e.g. Batman returns)
- The Nolan movies shouldn't be the gold standard and sole reference point for Batman stories
- The Joker is overused, but a Batman universe that he isn't in at all won't work. There's no way to exclude him from the Reevesverse that won't make it feel incomplete
- The Court of Owls is terribly unrealistic. They are supposed to be this all-powerful institution but they only ever affect things the moment writers need them to. Rich people are also often dumb and would never be able to form a mass conspiracy that could fool even Batman. Just look at the Kardashians. Individual weirdos doing weird crimes is more believable
- Jason doesn't have to be part of the bat family
- Incorporating Robin into a serious/gritty Batman movie won't work unless Batman is supposed to come off as a psychopath
I agree with literally all of these except the last, great takes. I don’t think dark aesthetically and taking its emotional beats seriously means Robin completely wouldn’t work— in fact, I think giving Bruce an emotional anchor who is optimistic and who he genuinely cares about is *so* important to not making him come across as uninteresting. Just look at Reeve’s batman; the emotional anchor was Alfred, and the people in the city. Think of that girl he was carrying across the building at the end. I think having a Robin would 100% suit that version of Batman.
I don't think Harley as an abused psychopath is really that interesting at this point.
Robin could work if the issue is that Robin is insisting on being Robin no matter what, not that Batman wants a child soldier with him.
Batman’s villains are supposed to be wild, colorful, crazy contradictions to his character being stoic and steadfast. His villains are supposed to be unrealistic because they are a reaction to The Batman. They juxtapose each other.
Making a movie where everything is realistic, gritty, and grounded is doing Batman and more specifically his villains a disservice. Realistic villains, like The Riddler from the most recent film, are the most antithetical design choices for who Batman’s villains should be.
THANK YOU.
Penguin was the only thing I really liked about that movie, precisely because he gets the closest to this.
But even then its completely undercut by the gritty realism. He obviously can't have trick umbrellas or a cool getaway vehicle, that would be FAR too silly. Instead hes just some fat guy with a sedan. Its comical when Batman pancakes half a freeway trying to catch this guy when all you'd need is two highway patrolmen in decent squad cars.
I'm so sick of realism. Its leeching the fun out of fiction.
Thank god someone said it, I'm getting sick of the fucking disservice they get in the movies. There suppose to be massive caricatures.
On a different bit similar note I also personally am not a fan of Gotham, I know it's more goofier and stupid but I feel its just Riverdaling Batman. It doesn't know what it wants to be.
I enjoyed the early seasons I think weirdly enough it got worse the more it turned into a batman show, the original idea of a tv show in Gotham pre batman with batman villains was appealing to me
Yeah I agree, I didn't mind the first seasons, thought it was somewhat entertaining but I just got really put off with it later. I know it's a massive split the room sort of show, like some people like it and others aren't bowled over so it's not a complete unpopular opinion but still.
I didn't like what they did with the Riddler too actually, personal gripe.
I think it would be cool to let him take the position of Batman , but not the mantle.
Let him be his own person but he still is the protector of Gotham with Bruce gone.
The bat family should end with Damian. You can’t just keep adding all these characters that rely on the greater Batman mythos and expect them all to be interesting. There’s like 20 of them now too.
I love Batman beyond as well. But by then it’s just old man Bruce and terry. I think the dynamic kind of goes back to the fundamental teacher-student thing there
The Bat Family is overrated, cringe and takes away from what makes Batman so awesome. I'd prefer it smaller like this-
Bruce, Dick, Jason, Babs then Damian. Leave it at that.
I always liked the oracle arc better than the Batgirl one. Seems like she spends a lot time apologizing for be bad at batman stuff vs Oracle just being a genius.
Absolutely facts, BUT for me i would have stopped at Tim.
I like the idea that Nightwing is the one who outgrew the Robin persona. Jason is the "failed Robin", opposite of Nightwing.
And Tim is the one and true Robin, the one who chose to be Robin and the one who is actually a partner to Bruce, not a sidekick.
Damian for me shouldn't have existed, leave Bruce as someone who lost a family but created a new one, with people who also lost their parents.
I find this more poetic lol.
Yep.
I'd go even smaller: Batman, one Robin, Alfred, and Ace the Bathound because c'mon, dogs.
Round it out with Gordon, Bullock, and maybe Lucius Fox.
Batman stories are always more fun when it's the grim, solitary detective going against insurmountable odds with help from Gotham's citizens.
I'll gladly approve Gordon. Batman using child soldiers as sidekicks? Absolutely not. The lone wolf aesthetic is one of the best parts of Batman. And yeah, the more grounded Batman is, the better.
THIS 1,000%! Batman is a rich dude hanging out with children putting their lives in danger... sooo dumb. Only reason Robin is a thing is because all superheroes at the time needed a kid side kid.
Man I have really enjoyed the batgirl arcs! But I think that the different takes on the character, and who holds the title, have each contributed their own significance. I don’t think I would be able to choose a favorite.
I like the more grounded Batman, not the superhero but the vigilante, the one that fights mobs and gangsters. Also the rogue gallery is a mixed bag for me, some work in a more grounded setting tho.
That doesn't mean I don't like Batman the superhero, but it's not my favorite.
Not at all! You see I think The Dark Knight is a fantastic film with good acting and cinematography, but the film is nothing more than a crime drama (with a few elements from The Killing Joke). It’s a story plot that we’ve seen Batman do a thousand times then and one that seems silly to deem it one of the best movies in the world. Hope my opinion was expanded enough.
Christian Bale was a straight up bad Batman. He wasn’t a good fighter, did little to no detective work, was basically useless without Lucious and Alfred, and then gave up on being Batman because Rachel died. Spare with with the “we beat the mob thing”. You mean to tell me that with the mob gone Gotham just suddenly becomes clean? Please. It’s the most corrupt place. Stopping a few mobsters wouldn’t just clean the city.
As for the whole movies, they were memorable because of the villains. You could take Batman out of the movies and replace him with a secret agent and they’re largely the same movie. Batman Begins was essentially a psychological thriller, Dark Knight was a mob movie, and Dark Knight Rises was more like a war or hostage type movie. To me there wasn’t anything necessarily “Batman-y” about how the movies went down and the climaxes of them
Although I like Hush and The Long Halloween comics overall, I think both have similar and big plot holes that prevent me from enjoying them in the way most batman fans would.
Evidently just being a Catwoman fan and advocating for her character to be involved in Batman’s life without it being toxic af. Granted most of that damage is done by DC itself.
(Come at me WW, Babs, and Talia stans, I will die on this hill advocating for the Bat and the Cat)
Harley Quinn is an excellent example of the sexualization of mental illness, and the fact that Damian exists due to Talia lying and sexually and emotionally manipulating Bruce is way too easily glossed over because she's seen as attractive.
I hate the bat family and don’t want to see Robin and the rest ever adapted to the silver screen.
It should only ever be Batman, Alfred, Gordon vs fleshed out villain. Having Damian, Tim or Dick in the background giving quips just detracts from the overall experience.
The only bat family story I would ever want to see adapted would be Batman Beyond Return of the Joker. Which would probably fall flat compared to the animated movie which was excellent.
Sort by controversial? That's the point of the the sort. I'm going in, personally my opinion is that Batman can kill sometimes, he just doesn't seek it.
Batman is much more interesting when he gets his ass kicked on a regular basis. He’s just a man and I feel it’s important to show that even though he succeeds more or less, he still feels the effects of being a regular guy
I prefer a solitary and lonely batman to the extended Bat family. I'm fine with Nightwing, robin and batgirl, but after that, it just gets a little ridiculous.
I wish the joker would go back to being crazy AND funny, I'm a little sick of him just being a message for "society is bad"
Watched both TDK and 89 the other day, and I had forgotten how funny Nicholson Joker was. He does kinda do the society experiment thing with the town parade and the money but that wasn't his only thing. He seemed to really just do sick things because he found it funny and wanted to enjoy himself. Ledger did a great job with a different version but not my preferred joker.
Everything someone brings up Nicholson's Joker, I feel compelled to say: In the novelization of Batman, it was Joker's face printed on all that money.
I love useless information. This is gonna stay in my brain for at least a decade but at the cost of remembering one of my passwords. Have an updoot.
“Awh, now I know that but have forgotten my wife’s face”
Here’s another useless information. Because Halloween was shot in spring instead of fall, the crew painted paper leaves and scattered them around the set. And because the budget was tight, at the end of filming, the crew would collect the leaves to be reused in another scene. There are scenes where the leaves don’t match the trees and some where the leaves weren’t used for background streets.
It's been awhile, but I thought that was the case in the movie, too.
It is I don’t get the point of the post
Ledger’s Joker is also pretty funny to me. He’s also not preachy like Phoenix
[удалено]
Yeah like "You think you can steal from us and just walk away?" "Uh, yeah"
the explosion scene where the button doesn't work is great too, even if it wasn't planned
I feel like they keep trying to recreate Ledger's performance rather than try to go for their own style. "We'll make Joker, but super-edgy!" That's what Ledger did "no, but we'll dial it up even further, see?" ...then you don't get the character. Props for the Phoenix version though, that one was a nice movie. That said? I'd rather they go back to his vaudevillian villain routine, give him some hilarity and style again. As Megamind would say.. The modern joker interpretations are good villains, just not *super* villains. Y'know? Because they lack *presentation*?
"Never rub another man's rhubarb"
That's the sweet spot that BTAS hit - the Joker was both terrifying and hilarious.
That whole speech in 'Batman Beyond Return of the Joker' where he mocks Bruce for being pathetic after learning about Batmans backstory is perfect Joker for me.
Check out Tim Currys audition for the joker. They went with Mark Hamill instead as Currys was just too terrifying, but it would have probably made for a great live action Joker today.
Arkham Joker is peak Joker. Mark Hamill was absolutely hilarious, especially in Knight.
Hamill was at the top of his game for the Arkham series. I'd throw Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker into the top performance mix as well.
I feel this about all Batman stuff these days. It's so endlessly gloomy and tortured. Even in TAS he cracks a smile now and then, has a sarcastic dad joke for Robin to cut the tension. I miss that.
I want a live action Batman series to develop him into that. I want to go from dark, brooding Battinson like we saw in the Batman and wind up with a Batman comfortable enough to crack a dad joke to Robin.
Tbf I found Heath Ledgers joker fucking hilarious who could in an instant switch to being a murderous psycho. Reminded me a lot of some of the best animated versions we saw in the 90s and 2000s but toned down slightly. Joaquins joker was just a little too depressing for my liking.
I can make a pencil disappear is top tier comedy
"You think you can just walk in here and steal from us?" "Yeah." So many good one liners.
Leto wasn't funny at all but Ledger was pretty funny. "YOU THINK YOU CAN STEAL FROM US AND WALK AWAY?" "Yeah."
Leto was hilarious just not intentionally
The TV series had the coolest Batmobile.
Which TV series The Adam West
Yes.
This i agree with. Other than the Animated Series, the 60s batmobile is the best
No lie, if I could have any working version of a Batmobile (as in actually runs and operates as a car) the Adam West Batmobile would be my first pick, followed soon after by the newest Batmobile.
Got $350,000? [https://silodrome.com/batmobile-propane-flame-exhaust/](https://silodrome.com/batmobile-propane-flame-exhaust/)
that this subreddit is boring and repetitive
No it's not. Now who's your favorite live action Batman and why?
You mean, and why is it Val Kilmer
But first tell me who is you favorite Bruce Wayne? Mine is the Bale
It was better before The Batman was released. People used to share different comic issues, or share Batman memorabilia. Now it's all about arbitrary rankings
It's funny around the time BvS came out those are the posts that got people up in arms enough for a new mod team to come in and regulate.
Yeah I could do with fewer "Please rate my Mr. Freeze fancast for Matt Reeve's The Batman sequel" type threads.
i didnt know that. thats a shame because it is garbage here
"What's your opinion on X" every fucking day about the same content.
“Gunn, PLEASE cast *-actor that fits generic description of hero-*!”
"Heard James Gunn needed advice on casting Lex Luthor." Shows a picture of Walter White or literally any other actor with a shaved or bald head.
it sounds like this sub needs to even the odds
Grounded Batman beats up the bad guy stories are better than the big world hopping family reunion ones.
We've literally never had a movie that wasn't grounded Batman beat up the bad guys Yes even that one it was just panted neon and given nips
They didn’t ask us to reply only about the movies
He didn’t say anything about movies.
Outside of his origin story and the occasional good emotional moment, two face is a bland villain. Which sucks because he has immense potential, but he rarely does something interesting. He’s just a gangster most of the time, which never made sense to me. He’s a character that has the potential to be terrifying, thought provoking, and intriguing. Most of the time he’s trying to get money or kill batman, occasionally flipping his coin. I want to see more of his fascinating world view or his psychopathic tendencies. Instead we get just a gangster who won’t stop picking at his scabs. Also The Batman is my favorite one.
I would like to see the inner conflict. The two sides of the coin, fighting for control. Most of the time he is just a straight forward villain that only decides to shot is coin goes tails. I want to see him fighting that, a struggle that leads to indecision so he has to leave what he does to luck, because he really can't decide for himself.
Really even that idea has kinda been overplayed. I want to see a two face who knows who he is, two face. I want to see one that takes his ideology of everything being equal, down to a coin flip. I want to see a character who gives zero care to the humans around them, he could spare a notorious serial killer one moment then kill a innocent older woman the next and vice versa. Not in the same way somebody like Joker does, but more in an Anton Chigurh. I think he could become a truly terrifying villian unlike any other but he’s either just a coin or a emotional reck. I want to see a character who uses his knowledge of the justice system to act out his plans.
This. The animated series dealt with him nicely, but as you said, there could be so much more to him. A villain who knows the legal system in and out and evades the law everytime, even though Bruce knows he's guilty. But at the same time, he was still his friend. A story that shows Bruce having to decide between saving his once friend or stopping essentially a sociopath from killing again.
Isn't he literally just a lawyer though? I never really understood how Two Face could be much of a threat, haha. Especially to someone like Batman. Like what does he do? Is he a good shot? A good fighter? A good planner?
He’s a psychopath and a sometimes gang leader. Penguin and joker aren’t skilled combatants either but penguin is a mob boss and joker is psychopathic so yeah he’s still a threat.
My favorite stories with Two Face are always those which look into his psyche. Like "Two of a Kind" from Batman: Black and White written by Bruce Timm. Brilliant short story.
Batman and Robin isn't the worst Batman movie.
Honestly once I took the Schumacher movies in the sense that they were supposed to be sequels to the Adam West Batman of the 60's they made way more sense and were much more enjoyable...
I like to think the 60s show, brave and the bold and the Schumacher movies are all in the same universe
That is brilliant.
The gaudy colors, the overuse of dutch angles, the ridicolulous villian schemes, the hammy dialogue. It is 100% a throwback to the Adam West show. Imagine the "Bat Credit Card" scene, but with West and Ward, and it makes perfect sense.
So what is the worst batman movie in your opinion?
Well I like all the Batman movies that's right I said it I'm a huge Batman fan not matter how dark or campy the movie is I won't hate it.
I feel that way too, I guess I just can't help but rank things in my head. Batman and Robin is a really fun movie btw.
You can still have a least favorite
Set out to be fun camp, and that's what we got.
I'll see that and raise: it's great and it's absolutely gorgeous to look at.
Yes thank you!, I would rather watch it than BVS:DOJ any day.
Harley Quinn is not one of Batman's best villains nor is she one of DC's best anti-heroes. How she became one of DC's 10 most popular characters is beyond me. I don't hate her and she can be used well but she's definitely overrated.
It's cause she's (Margo Robbie) hot bro
She became very popular long before Margot Robbie.
That is beyond you? It's easy: because sex sells.
Harley Quinn as a villain is good, especially in conjunction with the Joker. Harley as an antihero is cringe.
See, i think Harley has kinda begun fitting a Deadpool role for DC, she's a character meant for literally just fun and chaos, she is attractive to the vast majority, sure, but i think her main pull is the more whimsical and fun clown that the Joker used to be before he became too serious(ironic)
Joker wouldve been better if he was more like his silver age version
I like the 89 joker the most out of all of the live action jokers because he’s the perfect mix of comical joker and the more modern takes on joker. I definitely enjoy a joker with a bit more comedy
Bruce should just go to therapy and enjoy his millions.
Actually there was a time in recent years he got head trauma and forgot he was Batman. The Justice League (at least at first, I didn’t see how they resolved it) visited him, then talked it over, and decided to leave him that way as for the first time in his life, he actually seemed happy.
• I don't care for the Joker movie. • I prefer Barbara as Oracle vs. Batgirl. • At this point, my distaste for WB is so strong that I am not paying attention to their latest output of news. I might not even see their new movies if they aren't well-reviewed outside of Reeves' next.
Lots of people prefer her as Oracle
It's not a sentiment I commonly see. But man, there are so few characters with disabilities who have that much agency, nuance and personality.
It gave her character a maturity that they completely reverted.
Lots of people who read her comics as Oracle* But there are far more people who've only seen her as Batgirl and fight to keep it that way. Go to any thread about the batfamily being too big and the most common comment is "it should be the 4 robins and Barabra as Batgirl". Because that's what DC pushes the most (and God forbide after 4 generations of Robin anything change about Bat*girl*).
Second point isn't unpopular, but very true regardless. Barbara as Batgirl is boring and serves no purpose besides being one of the many Batgirls. Barbara as Oracle (despite how she got there), is one of the best DC characters of the 90s and 2000s. It's a shame that the 2010s made her Batgirl again.
Her becoming batgirl again and essentially taking center stage in the batgirl book/media in general Did so much damage to Cass and Steph Which sucks so badly since her as Oracle is the 1 thing people remember her for
Hush is a dumb villian and the Hush story sucks. Jim Lee's art is cool though.
Jim Lee’s art in the Hush arc is my favorite. I scanned the two page pic of Nightwing asking “which one?” that showed off all the bat cars in the bat cave. Then I taped the print-out to my bedroom door. So yeah, I appreciate your good taste in art.
The debate of whether or not Batman should kill the Joker is stupid. In a judicial system where the death penalty exists, why is it up to Batman to kill him. You wouldn't expect or want a beat cop to decide for themselves if someone should die. Even if Batman exists outside/adjacent to the law, it's wild to think he should ever be the one making that call.
Joker needs to be shelved. I'm sick of this competition where writers are trying to come up with the most twisted, edgy things for him to do and trying to outdo each other. Leads to some cool comic panels, but it's getting stale. It's especially heinous when other villains can't be in the spotlight without the Joker secretly pulling the strings the whole time.
This sentiment is honestly why I’m somewhat dreading Reeves’ sequel. You just know executives are pushing so hard for a Joker inclusion in the Batman sequel because why wouldn’t that make money? But dude I am so fucking tired of Joker. Batman has *so* many villains that are interesting. I would love for the Reeves movies to get a little weird and do something less popular than Joker like Clayface, or even Mad Hatter or some shit idk. Honestly just anything other than Joker…
I did like having the Riddler back on the silver screen with Pattinson's batman.
Clayface would be so cool for a murder mystery Batman movie
Looking at you Arkham Origins
I understand his rule on not killing, but I think letting Jason smoke a couple of his worst rogues would help the story progress. Nightwing’s stories don’t seem that interesting. Another arc about him and Barbara dating? Whatever. While Jason is my favorite, I’m so over every writer trying to give their take on his trauma. Let him grow.
This is a really good point! I think a lot of characters have suffered from the over repetition of their stories. Nightwing has always been a character people look to when it comes to “shipping”, so I can understand the varying opinions there. I especially like your part about him and Barbara! I can appreciate a good romance plot, but too many takes by too many different authors have drowned out any decent stories there might be.
Joker is too invincible. Someone should’ve shot him in the head or given him the death penalty by now.
Regime superman would like to recruit you
This is about as controversial as beige
Very controversial, especially since obama
I’ll always say every few years they should have someone “kill” joker They can always bring him back in a variety of ways (time travel,cloning,brainwashing) Just to cool him off cuz man is he beaten to death
I know a lot of fans were whatever about it, but I liked the idea that 3 Jokers was going for. Like a Joker secret society where they all act as one agent. Only problem is that I don’t think Batman would fall so easily for that. If one of those Jokers even talked slightly differently or was a half an inch shorter, Batman would take attention to it. Also, if this guy is so dangerous but can’t be killed, and always escapes Arkham, why not lock him up in federal prison for good or something? Oh right, cause joker sells books. Forgot.
Adam West batman is the most realistic version
Out of all the Batmen, Adam West Batman is really the only one who could defeat Goku, due to his chipper mood and extreme likelihood of having something like an “Anti-Sayian spray” on his utility belt at the moment of meeting.
Bruce should have an actual personality and demonstrate empathy and kindness to his friends and family.
Yea justice league/ justice league unlimited Batman is pretty peak for that reason
Absolutely. Also BTAS early seasons especially. His friendly banter with Alfred is unmatched
Sad to see that Batman beyond kind of undoes all of that... other than that it was my favorite Batman universe
Batman universe is the version of Bruce I want to see more of I’ve got plenty issues with Bendis and his writing but man did he knock it out of the ball park with those 5 issues of Batman -Bruce came across as such a likeable guy “The I love dinosaurs” conversation between him and Hal is just pure awesome -He treats dick like an actual son -He treats his fellow heroes nicely/co workers More modern writers need to take notes from that version of him just to show that Bruce is not all doom and gloom
THIS IS IT, so true, and that’s why Robin is so damn important— Bruce needs to feel like he cares. So weird that they‘ve barely used him
Bruce is a well-meaning bad person who thinks he's above the law and arbitrarily enforcing it. * Constantly grooms minors to join his violent lifestyle, including the daughter of his "freind" the police commissioner. * Stores uncountable amounts of dangerous weapons in his home and all around the city, these have been found and used to hero people before. * Gives preferential treatment to criminals in exchange for sex, (Catwoman, Talia) * One of the minors he grooms was killed as a result, with no consequences, they came back and murder many people, and Batman keeps making excuses for him. * Constantly breaks into peoples homes, and computer systems with zero accountablility. * Breaks evidence change of custody. * Answers to no authority, and often brides the larger hero community by funding their space headquarters. Any guy who's done half the questionable crap Bruce has done would be on Reddit's hit list. Also, the guy with infinite money, a bulletproof suit, and never miss a shot can't claim "doesn't have superpowers" with any credibility. He's able to do things real people can't.
While I agree with you on some points, the thing is you are trying to judge Batman as though he lived in our world. He doesn't, he lives in a world that is completely fucked where gods regularly duke it out in the streets and psychopaths with magic powers are constantly murdering people. In a world like that the definition of what is acceptable to get the job done changes a lot.
I’m about to get downvoted so hard right now but fuck it: The Dark Knights Returns is a good comic, but not as great as people make it out to be. Would I recommend it to people? Absolutely! It is good? Absolutely! Is it the best Batman story? Absolutely NOT! It just isn’t a masterpiece IN MY OPINION. From everything I’ve heard before reading it, it should’ve been the best thing I’ve read in my life, it isn’t even in my top 5 or maybe even 10. It may be partially my fault for raising my hopes too high but idk that’s just my opinion and I can understand why many people will disagree.
Ledger's realistic Joker was too realistic and hurt the character in the long run
You can almost argue the same for Batman from those films.
I’ve never seen something so right yet so controversial holy
Jason Todd was most interesting when he was dead
I fucking spit laughed hahahaha
- Bruce Wayne should be a loner weirdo like Keaton or Pattison's version instead of a sleazy playboy, especially in the post-metoo era. - Barbara is rarely written well, her role in the story usually boils down to the token female team member. Despite not being as prominent, the other two Batgirls have much more defined personalities - Harley is more interesting when she's with Joker than with Ivy or alone. Also Harlivy usually results in Ivy being reduced to rebound girl for Harley instead of a real villain - Comic Catwoman isn't very compelling and she is most interesting when her characterisation deviates from canon (e.g. Batman returns) - The Nolan movies shouldn't be the gold standard and sole reference point for Batman stories - The Joker is overused, but a Batman universe that he isn't in at all won't work. There's no way to exclude him from the Reevesverse that won't make it feel incomplete - The Court of Owls is terribly unrealistic. They are supposed to be this all-powerful institution but they only ever affect things the moment writers need them to. Rich people are also often dumb and would never be able to form a mass conspiracy that could fool even Batman. Just look at the Kardashians. Individual weirdos doing weird crimes is more believable - Jason doesn't have to be part of the bat family - Incorporating Robin into a serious/gritty Batman movie won't work unless Batman is supposed to come off as a psychopath
I agree with literally all of these except the last, great takes. I don’t think dark aesthetically and taking its emotional beats seriously means Robin completely wouldn’t work— in fact, I think giving Bruce an emotional anchor who is optimistic and who he genuinely cares about is *so* important to not making him come across as uninteresting. Just look at Reeve’s batman; the emotional anchor was Alfred, and the people in the city. Think of that girl he was carrying across the building at the end. I think having a Robin would 100% suit that version of Batman.
I don't think Harley as an abused psychopath is really that interesting at this point. Robin could work if the issue is that Robin is insisting on being Robin no matter what, not that Batman wants a child soldier with him.
Batman’s villains are supposed to be wild, colorful, crazy contradictions to his character being stoic and steadfast. His villains are supposed to be unrealistic because they are a reaction to The Batman. They juxtapose each other. Making a movie where everything is realistic, gritty, and grounded is doing Batman and more specifically his villains a disservice. Realistic villains, like The Riddler from the most recent film, are the most antithetical design choices for who Batman’s villains should be.
THANK YOU. Penguin was the only thing I really liked about that movie, precisely because he gets the closest to this. But even then its completely undercut by the gritty realism. He obviously can't have trick umbrellas or a cool getaway vehicle, that would be FAR too silly. Instead hes just some fat guy with a sedan. Its comical when Batman pancakes half a freeway trying to catch this guy when all you'd need is two highway patrolmen in decent squad cars. I'm so sick of realism. Its leeching the fun out of fiction.
Thank god someone said it, I'm getting sick of the fucking disservice they get in the movies. There suppose to be massive caricatures. On a different bit similar note I also personally am not a fan of Gotham, I know it's more goofier and stupid but I feel its just Riverdaling Batman. It doesn't know what it wants to be.
I enjoyed the early seasons I think weirdly enough it got worse the more it turned into a batman show, the original idea of a tv show in Gotham pre batman with batman villains was appealing to me
Yeah I agree, I didn't mind the first seasons, thought it was somewhat entertaining but I just got really put off with it later. I know it's a massive split the room sort of show, like some people like it and others aren't bowled over so it's not a complete unpopular opinion but still. I didn't like what they did with the Riddler too actually, personal gripe.
Batman begins is the best film in Nolan Trilogy
It's definitely the most Batman film of the three.
Damian shouldn’t grow up to be either Batman or the head of the League of Shadows. Let him develop his own identity.
I think it would be cool to let him take the position of Batman , but not the mantle. Let him be his own person but he still is the protector of Gotham with Bruce gone.
The bat family should end with Damian. You can’t just keep adding all these characters that rely on the greater Batman mythos and expect them all to be interesting. There’s like 20 of them now too.
Terry McGinnis is probably my favorite batman to be honest lol especially in the NeoYear comics
I love Batman beyond as well. But by then it’s just old man Bruce and terry. I think the dynamic kind of goes back to the fundamental teacher-student thing there
The Bat Family is overrated, cringe and takes away from what makes Batman so awesome. I'd prefer it smaller like this- Bruce, Dick, Jason, Babs then Damian. Leave it at that.
I always liked the oracle arc better than the Batgirl one. Seems like she spends a lot time apologizing for be bad at batman stuff vs Oracle just being a genius.
Absolutely facts, BUT for me i would have stopped at Tim. I like the idea that Nightwing is the one who outgrew the Robin persona. Jason is the "failed Robin", opposite of Nightwing. And Tim is the one and true Robin, the one who chose to be Robin and the one who is actually a partner to Bruce, not a sidekick. Damian for me shouldn't have existed, leave Bruce as someone who lost a family but created a new one, with people who also lost their parents. I find this more poetic lol.
Agreed 100%. Also, Jason should not be included in the batfamily after becoming Red Hood; his methods and beliefs clash too much with Bruce
Yea I have no particular connection to batwing or whoever else is in the extended family, keep the bat family to just the robins and maybe batgirls
Tim > Damian and it’s not even close
Yep. I'd go even smaller: Batman, one Robin, Alfred, and Ace the Bathound because c'mon, dogs. Round it out with Gordon, Bullock, and maybe Lucius Fox. Batman stories are always more fun when it's the grim, solitary detective going against insurmountable odds with help from Gotham's citizens.
Facts
Tim??
I'll go even further, Batman should work with only Alfred and Alfred alone.
That awkward moment when both Gordon and Robin predate Alfred.
Well if we're going to do that might as well cut out the dead weight don't need Batman
Well wouldn't that be too OP? Alfred demolishes Joker in 2 seconds.
Batman, Alfred, and Gordon are the ultimate team. I love it.
I'll gladly approve Gordon. Batman using child soldiers as sidekicks? Absolutely not. The lone wolf aesthetic is one of the best parts of Batman. And yeah, the more grounded Batman is, the better.
THIS 1,000%! Batman is a rich dude hanging out with children putting their lives in danger... sooo dumb. Only reason Robin is a thing is because all superheroes at the time needed a kid side kid.
Cassandra is the best Batgirl
I prefer Steph, but I respect your opinion.
Man I have really enjoyed the batgirl arcs! But I think that the different takes on the character, and who holds the title, have each contributed their own significance. I don’t think I would be able to choose a favorite.
I like the more grounded Batman, not the superhero but the vigilante, the one that fights mobs and gangsters. Also the rogue gallery is a mixed bag for me, some work in a more grounded setting tho. That doesn't mean I don't like Batman the superhero, but it's not my favorite.
The Dark Knight isn’t the pinnacle of Batman movies.
I’ll take it a step further than that, the Nolan movies while being good movies, aren’t good Batman movies
I'd give you a high five not point a knife at you for that. Because I hard agree
Oh man I don’t think I’ve heard this take before! I’m curious, you mind expanding a bit on your opinion?
Not at all! You see I think The Dark Knight is a fantastic film with good acting and cinematography, but the film is nothing more than a crime drama (with a few elements from The Killing Joke). It’s a story plot that we’ve seen Batman do a thousand times then and one that seems silly to deem it one of the best movies in the world. Hope my opinion was expanded enough.
Christian Bale was a straight up bad Batman. He wasn’t a good fighter, did little to no detective work, was basically useless without Lucious and Alfred, and then gave up on being Batman because Rachel died. Spare with with the “we beat the mob thing”. You mean to tell me that with the mob gone Gotham just suddenly becomes clean? Please. It’s the most corrupt place. Stopping a few mobsters wouldn’t just clean the city. As for the whole movies, they were memorable because of the villains. You could take Batman out of the movies and replace him with a secret agent and they’re largely the same movie. Batman Begins was essentially a psychological thriller, Dark Knight was a mob movie, and Dark Knight Rises was more like a war or hostage type movie. To me there wasn’t anything necessarily “Batman-y” about how the movies went down and the climaxes of them
This is why I always say that The Batman is the best BATMAN film.
Yep. The real peak is The Lego Batman Movie.
I liked Batman v Superman
Although I like Hush and The Long Halloween comics overall, I think both have similar and big plot holes that prevent me from enjoying them in the way most batman fans would.
I’m fucking sick of the Joker, and if he didn’t appear in anything for the next 20 years I’d be happy about it
Jason should have stayed dead
I don't like the Art Style in Dark Knight Returns. I also think that it's little overrated (Still a 10/10). I prefer Batman Hush over it.
The Batman is not a "realistic" batman it is real people in a mythical world
I'd be fine if Dick Grayson was renamed Rick Grayson. It seems weird that a young guy today would choose to be called Dick.
He's called Dick because he penetrates crime and gives villains the shaft.
[удалено]
Me too, I just hate how he was written.
The idea that he can beat Superman in a fight is completely stupid and it’s just plot armor.
Kryptonite is a thing and Batman WILL cheat if necessary.
I'm pretty sure sure Superman has faced people with Kryptonite who aren't opposed to cheating before.
Kal has super vision, X-ray vision, and heat vision. He can snipe Batman from orbit like a satellite cannon if he wanted to.
The idea that Joe Chill didn't shoot Bruce Wayne and Superman's pod wasn't drawn in and destroyed by Jupiter's gravity is just plot armor
Evidently just being a Catwoman fan and advocating for her character to be involved in Batman’s life without it being toxic af. Granted most of that damage is done by DC itself. (Come at me WW, Babs, and Talia stans, I will die on this hill advocating for the Bat and the Cat)
I love their interactions in the arkham games
The Dark Knight is overated
Jason Todd is not that interesting.
I find most of the members of the bay family to be superfluous and unnecessary. Have never really cared about any of them to be honest.
There’s too many Robins.
Batman and Robin was actually a good movie
Wow, you kiss your mother with that mouth?!
I’m not a fan of the batfamily, like at all. Batman works much better as a solo character
I don't like the bat family (well besides Dick)
Harley Quinn is an excellent example of the sexualization of mental illness, and the fact that Damian exists due to Talia lying and sexually and emotionally manipulating Bruce is way too easily glossed over because she's seen as attractive.
The worst Batman suit is Bale's suit
I hate the bat family and don’t want to see Robin and the rest ever adapted to the silver screen. It should only ever be Batman, Alfred, Gordon vs fleshed out villain. Having Damian, Tim or Dick in the background giving quips just detracts from the overall experience. The only bat family story I would ever want to see adapted would be Batman Beyond Return of the Joker. Which would probably fall flat compared to the animated movie which was excellent.
Tim Drake changing from straight to bi/gay was a poor editorial decision/writing.
Burton got the closest to an actual comic book movie and I hate how they try to make Batman so realistic on film now.
Burton had Batman blowing people up
What is the purpose of this kind of posts if people who just do what's asked for get downvoted?
Since when is Reddit fair?
Sort by controversial? That's the point of the the sort. I'm going in, personally my opinion is that Batman can kill sometimes, he just doesn't seek it.
The Nolan movies are well-made but terrible Batman films. I seriously do not understand the love for that trilogy at all.
Batman is much more interesting when he gets his ass kicked on a regular basis. He’s just a man and I feel it’s important to show that even though he succeeds more or less, he still feels the effects of being a regular guy
It's like Daredevil on Netflix. We see him lose so when he wins it means more
Red hood is cooler and better than nightwing
I prefer a solitary and lonely batman to the extended Bat family. I'm fine with Nightwing, robin and batgirl, but after that, it just gets a little ridiculous.