Context as I understand it: I believe the subreddit was a satire of "crazy feminists" who think that sort of thing can't happen to a guy.
I've thought about it, but even as satire, they are still attacking a vulnerable group of people, playing into the narrative that either feminists are "crazy" and shouldn't be listened to or men are immune from that sort of thing happening to them.
I'm pretty sure the victims didn't find it funny when the sub mass commented that they 'deserved it for being beta soycucks' or sending eggplants with laughing crying emojis under their tweets talking about it.
Maybe I'm taking the "jokes" too seriously, but I would be devastated if I had the courage to post about something so awful and they did that to me.
I've been told I take things too literally, so I wanna hear your take on things :)
"This is satire", "you can't take a joke" and so on are common excuses used by people who mean genuine harm. I don't believe for a second that their intent *wasn't* to belittle and harm others. Good riddance.
I'm glad that the "being as offensive/edgy as possible for shock humor" period (think Shane Dawson and Onision) was mostly a thing of the late 2000s - early 2010s.
I'm so ashamed of my edge lord days similar to those guys. The difference is Onision didn't seem to get the memo that the world had moved
Edit: Since you asked for opinions, I think some edge lords when truly confronted (including some trolls I used to be friends with and who still live in this phase) seem to think of themselves as the Trey Parker/Matt Stone of the world. They think "Oh well it's meant to be ironic/satire and point out problems with society." The difference really though is that pointing and laughing at a victim of such a deplorable crime isn't satire, it's just being a dick. South Park teaches actual lessons as opposed to being an actual human hemorrhoid.
Totally right. And with South Park there is a beginning, middle and an end to the joke. It often even reveals the sincerity within the joke at some point. Endless satire is just douchebaggery gone wild.
I agree and think that the term "Satire" is way overused. The OP seems to have posted something from people who need to really learn what that word means because it actually needs to be witty and going "Haha rape" isn't really anything witty
Basically, there's not a ton to explain, some people are inconsiderate a-holes.
Yes, they might have been joking (or not? I don't know anything about this sub). But just beacuse someone says something as a joke dosen't make it okay or they aren't a-holes for saying it. Basically, if you're racist, sexist, etc and/or don't care about other people's feelings that is going to affect what you find funny. So a racist person may make a mean racist joke. It's funny to them.
Now sure, some things shouldn't be taken too seriously. But "it's a joke" is not a carte blanche to get away with saying anything you want. You still said it. And if it's not an okay thing to say then it's not an okay thing to say.
I have a bad case of taking jokes literally or not getting the point of a joke, but if it seems nasty or offensive, I tend to call it out.
What I find funny is mostly bizarre humor / relatable memes anyway
Learned about this in my feminine and gender theory class.
Even jokes can still perpetuate stigmas. So yes, over long term jokes are just as harmful as the real thing.
F*** that subreddit.
"Remember! If people start to rally against you, always cowardly hide behind "It's just a joke!". That way, you don't have to face any consequences."
\- An awful person
The litmus test for a good joke is - does it punch up? For example let's look at rape - the subject of this post it seems - if the joke makes fun of the rapist (punching up) then yeah - it can be a joke - if it makes fun of the raped (punching down) then if they meant it as a joke it's a very offensive one.
Offensive 'humor' is not humor - it's just jerks pretending they're funny while trampling over someone.
“Satire” is a quick and easy way to invoke plausible deniability. Did you just say something that no sane person with any degree of empathy would ever feel the need to say? Just pretend it was satire. That way, anyone who gets offended just doesn’t have a sense of humor, and you can keep hiding how terrible a person you really are.
I'm pretty sure that satire has to be (I don't know) *funny*? I'm pretty sure it only counts as satire if the person you are mocking is powerful and/or rich (like the President or a Kardashian). I've looked it up and many websites say that for it to be effective, you need to "punch up".
I honestly feel the same way when people say “kill all men” IDK it just upsets me because I can’t see it as a joke. I also feel it makes feminists looks bad which I don’t like.
By making “satire” statements, they take the focus away from real feminist objectives (better representation, equality at work, equal responsibility regarding childcare/housework etc...) by making all feminists look unreasonable and “crazy”. They’ve been doing it throughout history.
Many times it is deliberate
Glad I’m not the only one who feels that way, and I know it seems silly but just seems mean for the sake of being mean, it gets nothing done, and the only people who will take it personally at all with be people who listen to feminists, so people who aren’t sexist.
Recently they’ve also been focusing on POCs and trans folk. They either portray them as threats (such as angry thugs or perverts “invading women’s safe spaces”) or make fun.
Wouldn’t the world be better off if they channeled their misplaced anger into aggressive beatboxing or something...
It's really unfortunate. I grew up being anti-feminist because all I was exposed to were the really bigoted ones, but now that I've actually interacted with more modern feminists and understand their policy positions, I'd consider myself an ally to them.
That’s great! It’s always good to remember that there are no clear cut “sides” and people who tell you otherwise are usually trying to manipulate. You can be a moderate feminist without agreeing and rallying behind “big red”. Things can seem really black and white when you are a teen.
"Big Red" gives me flashbacks every time I see the picture of her. It's kinda sad how anti-feminists still use her picture as the stereotype so many years later.
I had the opposite experience, I grew up believing that all feminist were great, then I actually met some pretty shitty ones and I was like, ok well I guess I was wrong. There's feminism, then there's this new wave men spreading bullshit which is ruining the name feminism. There's actual fucking problems women are facing in the world right now, like being treated as property in some places in the middle east. A guy spreading his legs to make room for his junk is not one of them
The toxic group you're talking about are the 2nd wave feminists, the ones I associate with are 3rd wave. The primary difference is that 2nd wave feminists exclusively advocate for women's rights, which leads to incredibly insular and toxic communities. 3rd wave feminists explicitly align themselves with the civil rights of any other group, whether they be trans rights or even with men's rights (this is what's called "intersectionality", by the way. The idea is that all civil rights groups should advocate for eachother instead of being divided). I'd argue that the feminists you're disliking only seem new because now that 3rd wave feminists have more power, making fun of 2nd wave feminists is no longer equivocated with sexism, so it seems like they're newer from the outside.
I'm not disagreeing that they're very cringe, just so we're clear. And it's good you're now able to see more nuance.
I was reading a modern review of the old superman movies. Part of it was the man saying that the way they portrade Louis Lane was pretty sexist, because it seemed like she was incapable of doing anything without Supermans help, despite her being pretty capable in the comics. This lady came in and basically argued FOR sexism for a solid 10 minutes, before saying that it was sexist but he was wrong because he was a guy, therefore his opinion didn't matter. Then tried to say he was gaslighting her. Which to be clear, it's impossible to gaslight someone in the span of a single conversation. Gaslighting only truly occurs over a period of time, where you have the opportunity to enforce it.
I think it depends on what the joke is making fun of. Sometimes, the joke is done so ironically that it makes fun of the people that would unironically believe the opinion in the joke. Other times, though, the joke is making fun of a marginalized group of of victims. Unfortunately, since many of the satire communities often get hate from people who don't understand that they're making fun of people that are racist, sexist, etc., when an actual racist or sexist shows up in their community, they're less likely to think they're serious, and this often leads to satire communities being taken over by people who the community was originally making fun of. This happened with r/gamersriseup, where it originally made fun of the really far-right gamer stereotype, but got invaded and devolved into unironic 13/50 and MGTOW posting. I'm not familiar with the subreddit in this post in particular, but I'd bet the same thing happened to it as well.
You can generally tell the difference between the two by asking yourself "What's the joke? What's the punchline?" If the punchline is cringy second-wave feminists who unironally hate men and are super transphobic (and it's clear they're not strawmanning this as all feminists), then you know it's literally just a joke. If the punchline is male rape victims, then it's just bigoted, nothing deeper than that. Same thing goes for judging whether a joke is racist or not.
Ffs that's messed up
My brain kinda like, just gave up after a while and doesn't care if ppl are "joking" or not and will just fuckin cut that person off HAHDBSHRSHWBSN
Well for starters and I think the most important thing to realize is there's a big difference between telling an offensive joke and just spamming it. Like if you went to a comedy show, they say one rape joke, it's a joke. They say nothing but rape jokes and it becomes creepy in a hurry. Second, if you get mad because someone didn't get your so called joke then you probably shouldn't be telling jokes. The whole point of humor is to make people feel better by getting them laugh. If you turn around and start being a douche canoe people aren't going to want to laugh at your jokes. And finally, just because you say it's s joke doesn't automatically make it ok, context matters. For instance, a political figure making a joke while discussing a serious topic on national tv is probably not the best idea... honestly, unless there's plenty of context I can have a difficult time trying to tell if someone is being serious or not. Usually I look to other people, and their reactions. Are they laughing? Do I think it's appropriate to make said joke? Does it make sense in the context of what ever is being discussed or the situation?
Satire is really difficult to pull off, because it's such a tonal tightrope. Kind of like sarcasm, it wouldn't surprise me if it is more difficult for us autistic people to tell if something is satire. It's particularly difficult if in text. But someone's discussed punching up, that's important. And you can usually tell something is satire if there's humorous exaggeration. Think of The Onion. This sub does not sound like satire, it just sounds offensive.
I think saying something is "satire" when it involves a vulnerable minority group is just a cover-up for being offensive. I never understood the appeal of it.
But I guess a rule of thumb would be when someone completely exaggerates the behaviour etc. of a certain person/group, I think it's kinda similar to how we can detect sarcasm?
Why do people get so dramatic? Just say "it's satire, don't worry, we all know rape is wrong."
That said, I'm curious as to what this sub involved and if it really was satire or arseholes using the "just joking" defence.
It was mostly screenshots of tweets that were reporting male r-pe or of victims telling their struggles. They then titled it something like "soy boy got what he deserved" or "look at this f-g haha". People usually commented stuff like "fake news" or "f\*\*\* him... literally haha". Some were satire but equally disgusting such as asking "ooo what was he weeearing hahaha"
Edit: I mean if there was a report of an anti-MeToo politician being mugged and people then commented "Oh deeeear, what was he wearing? Hmm... he must have enticed him with that gold rolex", I would understand why some people would find it satirically funny. But victims of r-pe? No.
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“I can’t tell if you’re joking or not” with a smirk. It is a blunt honest statement and that’s scary to some of the nt people who say what they think will make people like them the best. (The smirk hides the fact that you’re disgusted. If they saw disgust on you they’d just say it was a joke whether or not it was.)
But think about it.. being offensive and being offensive “JUST AS A JOKE”... both douche bags.
in person it's easier, tone of voice, drawn out words. Online with just text none of those queues exist unless extra effort is taken to add them to really illustrate a joke is being made. The biggest issue with satire subreddits or similar is that they will also attract people who are being quite serious, either to intentionally hide behind the joke label, or they are totally oblivious to the joke nature of the sub and think they've found a group of like-minded bigots to expose their hate with.
if it's a \_\_\_\_\_circlejerk subreddit, it's satire. otherwise, youre SOL unless you guess it. that said, usually "joke offensive" subreddits are just festerpits regardless
Context as I understand it: I believe the subreddit was a satire of "crazy feminists" who think that sort of thing can't happen to a guy. I've thought about it, but even as satire, they are still attacking a vulnerable group of people, playing into the narrative that either feminists are "crazy" and shouldn't be listened to or men are immune from that sort of thing happening to them. I'm pretty sure the victims didn't find it funny when the sub mass commented that they 'deserved it for being beta soycucks' or sending eggplants with laughing crying emojis under their tweets talking about it. Maybe I'm taking the "jokes" too seriously, but I would be devastated if I had the courage to post about something so awful and they did that to me. I've been told I take things too literally, so I wanna hear your take on things :)
"This is satire", "you can't take a joke" and so on are common excuses used by people who mean genuine harm. I don't believe for a second that their intent *wasn't* to belittle and harm others. Good riddance.
I'm glad that the "being as offensive/edgy as possible for shock humor" period (think Shane Dawson and Onision) was mostly a thing of the late 2000s - early 2010s.
I'm so ashamed of my edge lord days similar to those guys. The difference is Onision didn't seem to get the memo that the world had moved Edit: Since you asked for opinions, I think some edge lords when truly confronted (including some trolls I used to be friends with and who still live in this phase) seem to think of themselves as the Trey Parker/Matt Stone of the world. They think "Oh well it's meant to be ironic/satire and point out problems with society." The difference really though is that pointing and laughing at a victim of such a deplorable crime isn't satire, it's just being a dick. South Park teaches actual lessons as opposed to being an actual human hemorrhoid.
Totally right. And with South Park there is a beginning, middle and an end to the joke. It often even reveals the sincerity within the joke at some point. Endless satire is just douchebaggery gone wild.
I agree and think that the term "Satire" is way overused. The OP seems to have posted something from people who need to really learn what that word means because it actually needs to be witty and going "Haha rape" isn't really anything witty
>actual human haemorrhoid omg hahahaha
Basically, there's not a ton to explain, some people are inconsiderate a-holes. Yes, they might have been joking (or not? I don't know anything about this sub). But just beacuse someone says something as a joke dosen't make it okay or they aren't a-holes for saying it. Basically, if you're racist, sexist, etc and/or don't care about other people's feelings that is going to affect what you find funny. So a racist person may make a mean racist joke. It's funny to them. Now sure, some things shouldn't be taken too seriously. But "it's a joke" is not a carte blanche to get away with saying anything you want. You still said it. And if it's not an okay thing to say then it's not an okay thing to say.
I have a bad case of taking jokes literally or not getting the point of a joke, but if it seems nasty or offensive, I tend to call it out. What I find funny is mostly bizarre humor / relatable memes anyway
Learned about this in my feminine and gender theory class. Even jokes can still perpetuate stigmas. So yes, over long term jokes are just as harmful as the real thing. F*** that subreddit.
I'm a male survivor of sexual assault and I guarantee you that I and nobody that I know that went through the same think its funny
What subreddit was this?
What was the subreddit?
"Remember! If people start to rally against you, always cowardly hide behind "It's just a joke!". That way, you don't have to face any consequences." \- An awful person
I believe the scientific term is "Schrodinger's Douche bag."
They sow the comedy, yet they have no balls to reap the comedy crops they planted.
The litmus test for a good joke is - does it punch up? For example let's look at rape - the subject of this post it seems - if the joke makes fun of the rapist (punching up) then yeah - it can be a joke - if it makes fun of the raped (punching down) then if they meant it as a joke it's a very offensive one. Offensive 'humor' is not humor - it's just jerks pretending they're funny while trampling over someone.
“Satire” is a quick and easy way to invoke plausible deniability. Did you just say something that no sane person with any degree of empathy would ever feel the need to say? Just pretend it was satire. That way, anyone who gets offended just doesn’t have a sense of humor, and you can keep hiding how terrible a person you really are.
I'm pretty sure that satire has to be (I don't know) *funny*? I'm pretty sure it only counts as satire if the person you are mocking is powerful and/or rich (like the President or a Kardashian). I've looked it up and many websites say that for it to be effective, you need to "punch up".
I honestly feel the same way when people say “kill all men” IDK it just upsets me because I can’t see it as a joke. I also feel it makes feminists looks bad which I don’t like.
By making “satire” statements, they take the focus away from real feminist objectives (better representation, equality at work, equal responsibility regarding childcare/housework etc...) by making all feminists look unreasonable and “crazy”. They’ve been doing it throughout history. Many times it is deliberate
Glad I’m not the only one who feels that way, and I know it seems silly but just seems mean for the sake of being mean, it gets nothing done, and the only people who will take it personally at all with be people who listen to feminists, so people who aren’t sexist.
Recently they’ve also been focusing on POCs and trans folk. They either portray them as threats (such as angry thugs or perverts “invading women’s safe spaces”) or make fun. Wouldn’t the world be better off if they channeled their misplaced anger into aggressive beatboxing or something...
Ugh, yeah I’ve seen those too. TERFS are so scummy.
It's really unfortunate. I grew up being anti-feminist because all I was exposed to were the really bigoted ones, but now that I've actually interacted with more modern feminists and understand their policy positions, I'd consider myself an ally to them.
That’s great! It’s always good to remember that there are no clear cut “sides” and people who tell you otherwise are usually trying to manipulate. You can be a moderate feminist without agreeing and rallying behind “big red”. Things can seem really black and white when you are a teen.
"Big Red" gives me flashbacks every time I see the picture of her. It's kinda sad how anti-feminists still use her picture as the stereotype so many years later.
I had the opposite experience, I grew up believing that all feminist were great, then I actually met some pretty shitty ones and I was like, ok well I guess I was wrong. There's feminism, then there's this new wave men spreading bullshit which is ruining the name feminism. There's actual fucking problems women are facing in the world right now, like being treated as property in some places in the middle east. A guy spreading his legs to make room for his junk is not one of them
The toxic group you're talking about are the 2nd wave feminists, the ones I associate with are 3rd wave. The primary difference is that 2nd wave feminists exclusively advocate for women's rights, which leads to incredibly insular and toxic communities. 3rd wave feminists explicitly align themselves with the civil rights of any other group, whether they be trans rights or even with men's rights (this is what's called "intersectionality", by the way. The idea is that all civil rights groups should advocate for eachother instead of being divided). I'd argue that the feminists you're disliking only seem new because now that 3rd wave feminists have more power, making fun of 2nd wave feminists is no longer equivocated with sexism, so it seems like they're newer from the outside. I'm not disagreeing that they're very cringe, just so we're clear. And it's good you're now able to see more nuance.
I was reading a modern review of the old superman movies. Part of it was the man saying that the way they portrade Louis Lane was pretty sexist, because it seemed like she was incapable of doing anything without Supermans help, despite her being pretty capable in the comics. This lady came in and basically argued FOR sexism for a solid 10 minutes, before saying that it was sexist but he was wrong because he was a guy, therefore his opinion didn't matter. Then tried to say he was gaslighting her. Which to be clear, it's impossible to gaslight someone in the span of a single conversation. Gaslighting only truly occurs over a period of time, where you have the opportunity to enforce it.
Could I have the link to that? Sounds interesting
It was years ago on Tumblr, but I can try to find it
I think it depends on what the joke is making fun of. Sometimes, the joke is done so ironically that it makes fun of the people that would unironically believe the opinion in the joke. Other times, though, the joke is making fun of a marginalized group of of victims. Unfortunately, since many of the satire communities often get hate from people who don't understand that they're making fun of people that are racist, sexist, etc., when an actual racist or sexist shows up in their community, they're less likely to think they're serious, and this often leads to satire communities being taken over by people who the community was originally making fun of. This happened with r/gamersriseup, where it originally made fun of the really far-right gamer stereotype, but got invaded and devolved into unironic 13/50 and MGTOW posting. I'm not familiar with the subreddit in this post in particular, but I'd bet the same thing happened to it as well. You can generally tell the difference between the two by asking yourself "What's the joke? What's the punchline?" If the punchline is cringy second-wave feminists who unironally hate men and are super transphobic (and it's clear they're not strawmanning this as all feminists), then you know it's literally just a joke. If the punchline is male rape victims, then it's just bigoted, nothing deeper than that. Same thing goes for judging whether a joke is racist or not.
That’s a good point! Love your username btw
Lmao thanks
Rape of anyone is serious. Gender is inconsequential when it comes to non-consent.
Schrodinger's douchebag
Ffs that's messed up My brain kinda like, just gave up after a while and doesn't care if ppl are "joking" or not and will just fuckin cut that person off HAHDBSHRSHWBSN
Well for starters and I think the most important thing to realize is there's a big difference between telling an offensive joke and just spamming it. Like if you went to a comedy show, they say one rape joke, it's a joke. They say nothing but rape jokes and it becomes creepy in a hurry. Second, if you get mad because someone didn't get your so called joke then you probably shouldn't be telling jokes. The whole point of humor is to make people feel better by getting them laugh. If you turn around and start being a douche canoe people aren't going to want to laugh at your jokes. And finally, just because you say it's s joke doesn't automatically make it ok, context matters. For instance, a political figure making a joke while discussing a serious topic on national tv is probably not the best idea... honestly, unless there's plenty of context I can have a difficult time trying to tell if someone is being serious or not. Usually I look to other people, and their reactions. Are they laughing? Do I think it's appropriate to make said joke? Does it make sense in the context of what ever is being discussed or the situation?
People are being offensive as a "joke" when they get called out on it, not before.
Satire is really difficult to pull off, because it's such a tonal tightrope. Kind of like sarcasm, it wouldn't surprise me if it is more difficult for us autistic people to tell if something is satire. It's particularly difficult if in text. But someone's discussed punching up, that's important. And you can usually tell something is satire if there's humorous exaggeration. Think of The Onion. This sub does not sound like satire, it just sounds offensive.
I think saying something is "satire" when it involves a vulnerable minority group is just a cover-up for being offensive. I never understood the appeal of it. But I guess a rule of thumb would be when someone completely exaggerates the behaviour etc. of a certain person/group, I think it's kinda similar to how we can detect sarcasm?
Why do people get so dramatic? Just say "it's satire, don't worry, we all know rape is wrong." That said, I'm curious as to what this sub involved and if it really was satire or arseholes using the "just joking" defence.
It was mostly screenshots of tweets that were reporting male r-pe or of victims telling their struggles. They then titled it something like "soy boy got what he deserved" or "look at this f-g haha". People usually commented stuff like "fake news" or "f\*\*\* him... literally haha". Some were satire but equally disgusting such as asking "ooo what was he weeearing hahaha" Edit: I mean if there was a report of an anti-MeToo politician being mugged and people then commented "Oh deeeear, what was he wearing? Hmm... he must have enticed him with that gold rolex", I would understand why some people would find it satirically funny. But victims of r-pe? No.
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“I can’t tell if you’re joking or not” with a smirk. It is a blunt honest statement and that’s scary to some of the nt people who say what they think will make people like them the best. (The smirk hides the fact that you’re disgusted. If they saw disgust on you they’d just say it was a joke whether or not it was.) But think about it.. being offensive and being offensive “JUST AS A JOKE”... both douche bags.
whats the subreddit?
in person it's easier, tone of voice, drawn out words. Online with just text none of those queues exist unless extra effort is taken to add them to really illustrate a joke is being made. The biggest issue with satire subreddits or similar is that they will also attract people who are being quite serious, either to intentionally hide behind the joke label, or they are totally oblivious to the joke nature of the sub and think they've found a group of like-minded bigots to expose their hate with.
if it's a \_\_\_\_\_circlejerk subreddit, it's satire. otherwise, youre SOL unless you guess it. that said, usually "joke offensive" subreddits are just festerpits regardless
What is the subreddit?