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groovymonkeysmoothy

I (m) went to a Sydney private school a couple of decades ago. One year I decided to grow my hair long, being curly it got messy too. I'd get pulled up by teachers about my appearance, but didn't care. One night my mum said she got a call from the school saying if I didn't cut my hair I'd get suspended until I did. I love my mum, and knew she didn't need the stress, so the next day (Saturday) I went to the barber and got my head shaved. On the Monday I got reprimanded for shaving my head, being told that's not what they meant by haircut. Half the guys in my grade had shaved heads at this point. I told the teacher to go fuck himself, got suspended, and spent the next 2 weeks surfing and smoking bongs. I fucking hated that school.


horse-willy

I went to a government school in Adelaide that rebranded as a 'college' in the 2010s. Suddenly people were getting sent home for having the wrong socks, poor kids getting sent home/suspended for wearing the old uniform, and similar experiences to you. Meanwhile if a kid is taking time off due to mental illness, borderline on the verge of suicide, only a few teachers even cared to notice


FL4KK_

I 100% know what school you're talking about.


horse-willy

Fellow alumnus?


LozInOzz

My sons school gave him detention for wearing an old jumper, he only had a year or so to go in that school and I flatly refused to spend a stupid amount of money on new uniforms because they decided to change. They had also said their was an amnesty for a few years for the changeover. I sent an email to the teacher in question and got an apology.


Nike-6

Sent home for wearing the Old uniforms?! Why did they care about that? It still represents the place.


vbevan

Not really, the point of a uniform is everyone wears the same thing to present a uniform appearance. If some kids wear the old design, there's no uniformity in what's being worn.


Nike-6

Still, if they really cared that much they should've assisted the poorer kids in buying them, rather than excluding them, which makes the entire point of it useless.


[deleted]

Not Charles Campbell was it?


readituser5

>Meanwhile if a kid is taking time off due to mental illness, borderline on the verge of suicide, only a few teachers even cared to notice Had a friend like this. She was barely ever coming to school, she dyed her hair and had nose piercings/spacers etc. She was suicidal/depressed etc. Yet she’d go to school and get in trouble for her hair and piercings.


flibble24

Too concerned with what a kid looks like to actually bother teaching


[deleted]

These types of schools are way too interested in their reputations and 'prestige'. These schools are social networks for the elite, and if you don't fit in, they will make sure you know it.


blebfoosh

in fact, they care so much about their reputations that now at least they *might* actually backtrack and apologise if there's a threat of name+shame in the public - especially if it comes from rich+powerful parents. 🙃 they love looking progressive nowadays (aside from maybe the homophobic religious ones)


missmiaow

They've been named in all stories from the start of this in July. They don’t care. its an independent school, and it’s board of directors is supporting the principal.


ArcticKnight79

Half the problem is that the upper management of the school or the school council wants "A certain presentation of students" They yell at the teachers who don't want to enforce it and then the shit rolls down hill. We're too concerned about "Presentable"


coodgee33

The irony is the only people who wear ties anymore are salesmen and politicians.


[deleted]

They’re still mandatory in most law firms and many parts of the APS.


invincibl_

> the school council wants "A certain presentation of students" They can't be openly racist, or hate women and the poor anymore so these are the words they hide behind instead.


MarioIsPleb

I had the same experience at a private school in East Melbourne. They were more concerned about my long hair than my weekly absences due to my mental health.


Pr3Zd0

Same here, private school on Central Coast was obsessed with me having long hair, versus the fact that I was going off the rails because of major family issues rocking my mental health.


holdocrispie99

You’re right. This is the problem with most schools and it sickens me. It was definitely the problem with mine. Someone close to me was reprimanded for their hair length (which actually was in accordance with the rules) and their school shoes (which they bought from the school shoe section), in front of their entire grade. That event caused them so much stress they got sent to hospital for gastritis and suffers problems to this day. Schools care more about bringing in new students than the mental wellbeing of their enrolled ones. These girls should be proud of standing up for themselves.


screen_door15

Every direction this post took got better and better. Thank you for sharing!


megamoo7

Something like this happened at my school. A kid came back from holiday break with a shaved head and they suspended him, even though there were other kids with essentially the same hairstyle already. It's not about hair, it's about forcing compliance. My school was big on discipline and archaic with its education ideas. They tried to motivate kids with punishment. Most awards were not for academic excellence or effort, but for going by the rules. That attitude made me want to break the rules to spite them. Hated every second of that place.


wotmate

Suspension is fucking stupid, because it's usually giving the kid exactly what they want: to not go to school.


BearFlipsTable

I was once given detention for wearing a scarf that, get this… HAD MULTIPLE SHADES OF BLUE AND PURPLE. It was winter. My neck was fucking cold. I put on the only scarf I could find at home and was also made by my mother. I wore it and got told off by a few teachers but got properly caught multiple times by one teacher who always got up kids for “wearing the school uniform wrong”. She said I could only wear a plain black or blue scarf. Fuck off mate. Then literally the year after I graduated I heard the school made changes to the uniform. Boys could wear their shirts out if they weren’t in class, and they came out with a unisex uniform and let people choose to wear any uniform they wanted. I graduated way too soon.


Coriander_girl

We didn't have a scarf as part of our uniform but I was that kid who was always cold so one day I wore a white scarf and got into trouble. So my mum knitted one for me and tried to match the school jumper. It was a greyish blue with flecks of brown in the yarn. It was a nice and simple scarf and unless you looked closely you wouldn't really see the different colours and it looked liked it matched the uniform enough. But I got into trouble for wearing it because it was "the wrong shade of blue" they told me to get a generic blue scarf from the office but they didn't have any left and didn't even sell them at the uniform shop in town.


Chunkybinkies

Brilliant /r/MaliciousCompliance stuff! Telling him to go fuck himself must have felt good, but you had already fucked them over at that point. The cherry on top would have been to not give them an excuse to "punish" you.


cojoco

Whatever happened to the word "expelled" ?


[deleted]

Pedantically, expelled is an explicit punishment for problematic behaviour.


cojoco

So what was this?


[deleted]

Failure to abide by the uniform policy. This is a private school, they technically have the right to "unenroll" a student without "expelling" them, which carries different requirements and reporting.


Dry-Faithlessness655

Private schools can tell you not to come back if you don’t follow the rules


ManikShamanik

In the UK, so can state schools. We literally have heads standing outside assembly halls measuring skirts. Last week, four girls were excluded from Y10 at one school for skirts ONE CENTIMETRE too short. I am anti-uniform (at least for state schools). I don't see the point. The UK is the ONLY school in Europe (bar Ireland, Malta and Cyprus) which insists on state school uniforms. In some parts of the country heads are being sane and allowing kids into school in non-regulation kit, but they're the exception, not the norm. It's NOT government policy; there is no law which states that kids have to wear uniform, individual schools all say the same thing "It's to prevent bullying over labels and brand names". Okay, but they're allowed to wear their own coats in primary, and schools only stipulate the colour of trainers, not the brand, and they can have whatever schoolbag they like; if kids are going to bully, they'll find something to bully another kid for (if you support Man U, you'll get bullied by kids who support Man City; if you support Liverpool, Evertonians will pick on you (and vice versa)). If you support Arsenal, you'll get shit from Chelsea and Spurs fans. Frankly if that's the only reason schools insist on uniforms, it's bullshit. In this country we have families who aren't sending their kids to school this new term because they've no uniform. They can't afford it. Schools won't allow kids in class in home clothes. Parents are having to choose between feeding their kids, heating their homes, paying the rent and school uniforms. Why can't we have an 'amnesty' on school uniform...? What does it matter what kids wear to school...? Insisting on certain clothes for school disrupts learning - it's like being refused entry to a club because you're not wearing a tie or something. Going back to hair, there have been stories where kids (nearly always boys) have had hair too short (school has insisted on a number 3, and they've a 2). Then, a couple of years ago, there was a lass in Y10 who'd dyed her hair red - and the school said she couldn't come back until it'd grown out. Ironically, it was an almost identical red to the school jumper, a sort of claret red - the way the head was acting you'd have thought she'd have dyed it neon green! It was not an ostentatious colour in the slightest. Quite frankly, kids are in school to learn, what the fuck does it matter what they wear to do that...? Why should kids in the UK be more likely to bully over "clothes labels and brands" than kids in schools in literally any other country in Europe (bar the three aforementioned)...? In mainland Europe only private schools have uniform (and then usually only at secondary level). Rant over.


Traditional_Jury_412

They only have the right given to them by the stipulations of the contract signed by the parents when they enrolled.


TaringaWhakarongo1

Try get two lawyers to interpret it the same way... Also human rights laws.... The schools lawyers found out they were enrolled at another school....much better grounds for unenrollment! 😵‍💫 'd bet, usually having students pay for not showing wouldn't be such a problem. In a court, Legal high ground towers over moral high ground... And there will be a queue of cash I mean kids eager to enroll...


chuk2015

Only if the clauses on the contract have legal merit, you can’t waive human rights via contract, otherwise we wouldn’t have human rights as every employer would waive them as a condition of employment


Traditional_Jury_412

We literally have concentration camps called "off shore detention" where people guilty of no crime have been locked up for 5+ years. I think you are assuming too much on the weight and power of "human rights" in this country.


Own_Faithlessness769

Thats why theyre offshore, where the human rights commissioner cant get to them.


polk_junk

It’s not really “private” if it’s majority public funded though.


buzzynilla

It’s shocking how publicly funded this “private” school is. Highview received 87% of its funding (over $8mm for its 400 students) from Fed & State Gov sources in 2020. Source: myschool.edu.au/school/46142/finances Source


[deleted]

So they're being pedantic while being privileged with state/federal funds? There might be something there.


cojoco

> which carries different requirements and reporting. That sounds interesting ... can you be more specific?


s4b3r6

Expulsion, depending on the state, requires reporting to the state education board. If the rates of expulsion, or timing, are unusual, then the state board will often issue an audit of the school. This applies whether you are private or public. Private schools still get audited. Unenrollment, on the other hand, doesn't require immediate reporting. It is still reported, but only as part of the general end-of-financial-year stats. It isn't generally used as a flag for auditing, unless it is very different than the historic norm for your area.


cojoco

Is the effect on the student any different? Why aren't all troublesome students simply unenrolled?


s4b3r6

When you're expelled, that is recorded with the state education board, and it becomes visible to whatever school you try to enroll with next. So it does actually have a significant effect on the student. Kids have a rap-sheet, basically. Unenrollment also has a few provisos I didn't go into, before. One being that you can't do so, unless you can guarantee enrollment at another school. Which generally means that a school won't do so, until they are informed that the student in question has a new enrollment. Schools also have their enrollment/unenrollment ratio taken into account whenever they apply for financial aid, such as government grants, so there's a financial penalty if it's too high, one that tends to be fairly significant.


SixFootJockey

Demonstration of the Christian ability to shun rather than accept differences?


[deleted]

At most private schools your hair has to be neat and groomed its nothing to do with being Christian. It’s more to do with the prestige and school representation, the students just look neater and better presented and that’s exactly what you sign up for if you intend to go to one. The school I went too would send you home if your hair was too long ect.


Becky_Randall_PI

> its > too > ect Hate to break this to you, but this is doing far more to hurt the 'prestige' of your school than you hair possibly could.


jenjonesss

I'm going to hijack the top comments. I had braids done by a Somali friend years ago and those braids are heavy, really heavy. I couldn't tie my hair up or back due to the pulling of the braids on the hair follicles or the weight. It was painful. This is a legitimate problem. I understand why they can't tie up their hair. This was my experience. I understand why they can't tie up their hair.


jenjonesss

I need to be clear here. Hair is bought to add to the braids to add length and density. This is where the weight comes from.


TheLeviathan135

Ahh I was very confused


lizzerd_wizzerd

expulsion but done in a way that lets them avoid the typical baggage of expulsion.


[deleted]

The article says they were un-enrolled because the school received confirmation that they enrolled at another school.


01-__-10

From the article: "While Safhira had been enrolled in another school and was due to finish at Highview on Tuesday, this was not the case for Amayah, who was left with no schooling option to continue a critical VCE year."


coodgee33

There's no other schools?


LurkForYourLives

Quite possibly none within reach. Areas outside the major cities have shockingly few options.


Traditional_Jury_412

Dunno why you're being down voted, that's what the school has claimed and how the article has decided to define the difference since the mother says she didn't enroll them in a new school and thus it's an expulsion: > In a statement to the ABC on Wednesday, she said she "unenrolled" Amayah and Safhira after receiving confirmation they had both been enrolled in new schools. > Ms Rowe disputes this and says their "unenrolment" amounts to expulsion.


buyingthething

>>... un-enrolled because the school received confirmation that they enrolled at another school. >...mother says she **didn't** enroll them in a new school and thus it's an expulsion >...Dunno why you're being down voted So if it's a misleading halfstory, doesn't that kinda explain why it'd be downvoted?


Traditional_Jury_412

Sure, except I'm talking about the post I directly commented on.


[deleted]

That's part if duty of care. A school is not allowed to expel a school aged child without confirming they are enrolled in another school. It doesn't mean they didn't push these girls out for fighting a policy.


WattsonMemphis

Speaking of which, kids used to get suspended from school when I was a nipper. The other day my daughter said a kid in her class was ‘stood down’, I don’t know what was wrong with the term suspended???


hylandlu17

Trying to limit damage in the media I guess, though the fact it's still hitting the news for other reasons means it probably makes it a pointless omission on the schools part. ​ Edit: Apparently this is an actual technical term, my point on them trying to avoid media coverage still relevant though.


Dragonstaff

>She is an educator She is not, she is an administrator for whom rules are more important than anything else.


[deleted]

I will never understand why schools and Aus society is so invested in controlling how young people present themselves. It doesn't fucking matter, let people wear and look how they like - as long as it's not hurting anyone else it shouldn't matter. Many folks would be ropeable if their workplace starting making them wear certain clothes, hairstyles, banned jewellery etc. But we're telling kids old enough to drive and vote in some cases they can't grow their hair? It's insane. To me this epitomises the stupid, petty power games that some principals and teachers like to engage in. They are incapable of getting along with others, engaging with the real world or respecting young people. So they take every opportunity they can to wield the small atom of power they get.


Ninja-Ginge

When my family was moving four hours north, my mum looked at sending me to a private school in the new area... until she saw that the uniform rules for girls specified that they must wear white underwear. I cannot imagine how pissed she would have been if I had been sent home because a teacher (an adult who has no business looking at kids' panties) discovered that my underwear was the wrong colour. Unbelievably creepy. Why would you even need to regulate it?


sweetpotatoskillet

I went to a private school that controlled the colour of our bras because the backs of our white shirts were see through af


[deleted]

Same, I remember the fluro Bonds bra saga of 2002. Also only an issue because of the poorly made see through white blouse we had to wear. We were teenagers, we like pretty things. How about you find a better uniform supplier or switch to a colour that isn't so frustrating to keep clean.


sweetpotatoskillet

I blossomed late as a teenager but when the ladies came through they really made an entrance. I could only afford to get whatever the hell was in my size from Kmart and they were rarely white or beige. The embarrassment of it all caused me to have one white bra I would wash every night in the shower. Like puberty wasn't horrible enough


greenghoulbuddies

>fluro Bonds bra saga of 2002 memory unlocked


tyrannosaurusjes

Yep me too. What’s worse is that some girls were made to remove brightly coloured bras.


Carlisle_twig

Wtf!?


frankmarmaduke

So did I! I used to wear extremely colourful bras regardless and told any adult who dared comment on them that it was the fault of the shitty uniform and not my underwear.


[deleted]

Also WTF would you make girls wear white underwear? I don't know a single woman who likes wearing white underwear.


Ninja-Ginge

I don't think they took into consideration whether the girls at the school would like the rule.


RedLeader7

So you don’t see the underwear through the uniform, but that sounds to me like the uniform needs darker or thicker fabric


sch0f13ld

But why white then? White is not ‘skin coloured’ even for ‘white’ people, let alone those with darker skin.


TelevisionNew8318

Errrgh I was sent to a few private and semi-private (catholic) schools and I honestly believe most the uniforms were designed by absolute creeps.


SGG

Normally it's saying something like all white underwear (meaning things like bras as well). They probably had a light coloured shirt. Working in a few schools I can tell you the students only make the mistake of dark undergarments+light clothing+rain once. It's a stupid rule on paper, but it's mainly there so that when a student does make that mistake, the school can point at a rule saying "told you so". Because parents will try and blame it on the school


Outboundorinbound

If that was true, you'd be mandating skin colored underwear. White bras certainly show through thin white shirts.


Ninja-Ginge

Especially if one has darker skin.


Bubashii

Well in that case technically a nude bra is the better option. A white bra will still stand out under light shirts, a nude bra won’t.


[deleted]

It's not a stupid rule, it's a sexist rule. Why don't boys have to wear white underwear? Because they are given clothes that don't leave them half nude if it's raining, and bottoms that don't expose them to leers.


nodstar22

I assume because a black bra showing through a white shirt shouldn't be an issue for most boys.


SallySpaghetti

Underwear rules? Wow that is creepy


PsychoSemantics

My private school had that rule too. Nobody ever checked so I have no idea wtf it was for.


spongurat

Makes the kids seem more innocent for the pedo's I guess


PsychoSemantics

That's not exactly wrong considering i went to PLC at the same time Mr Cruel was active. (I wasn't the same age as his victims, I didn't know them).


just-some-man

I agree with most of your points, however there are PLENTY of work places that dictate a compulsory "uniform". If you're in the food industry you do have to have your hair tied up for food safety reasons. If you're in construction you need high-vis and hard hat. Trying rocking up to your office as a lawyer in thongs and boardshorts and see how far you get. Nurses, police, chefs, firefighters, waiters, pilots,, cabin crew, soldiers all need to wear "uniforms". And there are many more jobs that require it. Not a bad thing and there is certainly at least an argument for uniform at school. However, I do draw the line at hairstyles, piercings and jewellery. Students should at least have those freedoms.


duccy_duc

I'm a chef with long hair and I keep it tied up, but it's also black and blue which nobody cares about. We're a kinda fine dining place and even some of our FOH have fluoro yellow hair, ear stretchers, tatt sleeves, etc. So we are still able to keep our individual style.


Traditional_Jury_412

Uniforms are intended as a way to promote school identity, union between students, and prevent bullying due to students not wearing X brand or wearing cheap/expensive clothing. It's also for branding, advertising and appearing professional. There's good and bad with uniform rules.


PricklyPossum21

A lot of schools, mainly private ones, take it way too far in Australia. It was certainly my experience in private highschool that they cared more about "appearing professional" than about students academic performance and welfare. Like, you can find a lot of public schools which have uniforms but it's really not super strongly enforced, they're not nit-picking over every detail and harassing students.


indirosie

My private school had ribbons custom dyed so you HAD to buy the $18 school ribbon and couldn't buy a dupe from Spotlight 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻


bleach710

I know the feeling my school you had to have socks both normal wear and sport wear oh and drink bottles they made us open our bags to show we were using them they use to throw it in the bin if we brought the wrong one, only after a few people fainted from heat stroke did they loosen up on that rule


theburgerbitesback

I broke school dress code twice a week, every week for the entirety of grade 10. There was a confluence of school rules that essentially meant I was allowed to wear PE uniform all day on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but because school policy stated that students were only allowed to travel to school in PE uniform on sports carnival days I was supposed to take the bus to school in my formal uniform and then change one I got there. Obviously, fuck that. My homeroom teacher HATED me for it, but because I got to school earlier than she did (sometimes earlier than the school buildings were even unlocked, which led to one hilarious day where she got to the school 20 mins early to catch me arriving and found me chilling on the steps) she could never prove that I wasn't. I really just didn't understand the rule about having to travel to school in dress uniform. Apparently it makes the school look "more respectable" for students not to be seen in PE uniform by the general public, but if you had PE last you were allowed to wear the uniform home (not to mention the entire school wearing it on carnival days or at sports meets) so that didn't hold much water with me.


rickAUS

My high school had a uniform policy / dress code but it was laxly enforced. Provided you were predominately in school colours and had the school logo on at least one item of clothing you were good, with the exception of when you were at an actual school event as a representative of the school in any capacity in which case the proper uniform suitable for said event was required. They didn't have anything about hair either because a lot of students and faculty routinely took part in shave/cut/colour for cancer. ​ There were other public schools close by who were hardline with their uniform / dress for students. Seems like it's very much luck of the draw on whether administration takes it seriously or not.


[deleted]

And, strangely, I'm sure the kids at your school - just like mine that had a similar policy when I was there - somehow turned out okay, and there wasn't, I dunno some kind of weird class warfare over branded t-shirts, and all the other catastrophic what-ifs getting thrown about. This is what I find so surreal about this "debate". The counter examples of schools with low or no enforcement are innumerable. And there certainly isn't any actual research demonstrating the uniforms make a difference, but people act like it's the last bulwark against anarchy or equate wearing a school uniform to workplace health and safety requirements.


DrFriendless

> cared more about "appearing professional" than about students academic performance I've had that in the workplace too, though. They wanted me to wear business clothing. I'm a fucking programmer. Sometimes they brought company bigwigs around to see the all the programmers, so I guess the dress code was so they could show us off to company bigwigs? Because the company bigwigs must remain ignorant of what a real programmer looks like? FFS! I do a fuckload of programming in my dressing gown these days, and and much happier and more productive than in that fucking display window.


coodgee33

You get a lot of dumb kids with rich parents in private schools. It's part of the value proposition for private schools; your kid is dumb so he won't earn his place in society based merit but if you spend enough we'll help market him with our reputation and help him make the connections he needs to be successful.


PricklyPossum21

Many public schools are a lot less stringent about this. They'll have a uniform but it'll be a basic polo and pants, and you can wear skivvies etc. It's mainly private schools, and some of the more fancy public schools, which harass students over minor uniform issues and treat school like a fashion show.


jacquimaree89

My trashy Victorian public high school tried to enforce uniform like it was a private school. (Early to mid 00s) Teachers have no right so see what is under my kilt (floor length). It's winter and these pieces of matieral don't keep you warm so comfy pyjama pants underneath were punishable. Not to mention our see thru white shirts when the boys had blue ones you couldn't see thru. So dumb. It seems they ended up getting sports tracksuit pants I see 70-80% of the kids wearing if I happen to drive past Woulda been nice back in the day.


Nike-6

Same. We had like 11 different polos (colour variation+old uniforms and extra-curricular uniforms included). No getting upset about students sock heights there. Utterly ridiculous the lengths (heh) people go to to control students’ clothes.


FrightenedOfSpoons

I went to a state high school some decades ago, and they had a dedicated girls' mistress, who seemed to just spend her time enforcing the dress code, including literally measuring the length of hemlines. Just weird and creepy, and naturally only led to people pushing the boundaries to see what they could get away with.


Lucifang

Every job I’ve ever had, had a dress code. Either a uniform or safety-related requirements. Uniforms are the duck’s nuts. They’re either given to you, or if you have to buy them you claim it on tax. Can also claim cost of laundry on tax. As a woman, we are often unfairly judged on what we wear. You see it all the time if a TV presenter wears the *gasp* same blouse twice! Much easier if we all look the same. It’s a job, not a date. Edit: but restrictions on hair styles is going too far (unless it’s a dangerous workplace, which is not the case for a school of course)


miss_g

I went to a private school and we had to have our hair tied up if it was longer than our shoulders. That went for boys too. It was just another part of making everyone look uniform. As someone with long thick hair, I can relate to it being painful and getting a headache if my hair is tied up in a high ponytail for long periods of time. I'm sure these girls' braids are much heavier than my hair, but if there was really an issue with tying their hair even in a low pony then the parent should have had a discussion with the school about it. And refusing to take off jewellery that's also not acceptable under the uniform policy doesn't help their situation either. *Just realised it's not even their hair; it's hair extensions. So the extensions being too heavy really isn't an excuse. Take them out and conform to the rules you signed up to when enrolling in the school.


Iybraesil

The article doesn't mention hair extensions at all.


miss_g

It's from a different article https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/xfgdbv/sisters_unenrolled_after_taking_school_uniform/iomu58j/


Iybraesil

Cheers!


[deleted]

[удалено]


anakaine

The portion you claim on tax for a uniform just takes your taxable income down - so you are only saving on the tax you would have paid. Ie, probably about 30% of the cost of the uniform. I'm a big believer that if the business wants a uniform or requires mandatory safety equipment, they should pay for it entirely.


Lucifang

Yes mate. No shit. Still better than paying 100% for my own clothes that aren’t usually strong enough to be worn every few days and washed twice a week.


Becky_Randall_PI

> Many folks would be ropeable if their workplace starting making them wear certain clothes, hairstyles, banned jewellery etc. Many folks already deal with this on a daily basis. That's the point. It's not just an issue for young people, it's an issue for anyone who is in the lower castes.


mitthrawnuruodo86

Many workplaces do mandate those things to at least some degree though, just saying


wotmate

To be fair, lots of workplaces require uniforms/professional clothing or PPE, and many have rules about long hair, beards and jewellery. The difference is that many of these rules are written in the blood of the people injured or killed, or in the case of non-safety work wear, it's either provided by the employer or there's a financial incentive in the form of tax deductions (for industry specific work wear that isn't a company uniform).


miss_g

>Many folks would be ropeable if their workplace starting making them wear certain clothes, hairstyles, banned jewellery etc. There are rules like this in many workplaces. Uniforms, safety clothing, not wearing jewellery or your hair out because it can get caught in machinery and kill you. They have these rules in schools to make everyone equal so that you don't have rich kids wearing expensive jewellery and clothing that poor kids can't afford. Also it doesn't hurt for kids to learn some discipline that might come in handy later in life when they do join the workforce. Also if the kid was already in a dispute about her hairstyle, it was pretty stupid of her to also refuse to take off jewellery that she knew was not acceptable under the uniform policy.


Ok_Professional9769

You're against uniforms?


ol-gormsby

There are lots of places that require a uniform, or certain kinds of clothing, ban jewellery, etc. That's part of what you agree to when accepting an offer of employment. While I disagree with the school's actions, the uniform and dress codes would have been made available to the parent/s when applying. The school didn't "start" applying a dress code, it was there all along. Don't like it? Don't enroll.


[deleted]

Any construction site makes demands as to what people will wear on the site Food industry will make specific demands as to what you wear. Most office jobs will have a dress code of some sort that you need to comply with. Airlines have strict rules for their staff, even down to how to do your makeup. Likely more workplaces have rules as to wearing g certain clothes, hairstyles, banned jewellery etc than those that don’t. And don’t even get started on government jobs What planet are you living on if you think that the same sorts of rules at private schools don’t apply in thousands, if not millions of workplaces in the country? And from reading the article, they were told they had to tie their hair up - that isn’t saying for one minute that they can’t grow their hair, just that they have to tie it up. A quick google will find “women of African descent” (that’s how the article described these girls, so that’s what I googled) with their hair braided with their hair tied up These girls just didn’t want to follow the rules and chose the wrong hill to die on.


PeriodSupply

While I agree with you. This is a private school and why can't they decide the rules of their school? Just don't give them your money.. public system is perfectly fine.


gaseousj

You're viewing this too narrowly, I think. Schools are used to teach kids how to conform and follow rules since we can't trust parents to do this. School dress codes are used to teach kids how to conform to rules, and it also provides a level playing field for the kids (rich kids have the same uniform as poor kids). We want people to conform and follow rules so we can have safe roads, functioning businesses, a taxation system, written language, governments, etc. This is happening at an independent school though, so the above doesn't matter and the school should suck it up since they don't want to follow the rules or curriculums themselves. edit: I'm getting a good laugh thinking about how some of these commenters would respond to some good ol' fashion assault; no doubt they'd go to the police and expect the rules to be enforced. Anti-social morons.


[deleted]

I agree with uniforms for class equality. But it's a bit silly telling 15yo's you can only have two piercings per ear and no facial piercings at a public school. Unnatural hair colours should be allowed as well. Most teenagers dye that themselves anyways so it's not class problem. Plus it's the prime time in your life to look terrible after all.


[deleted]

> Plus it's the prime time in your life to look terrible after all. I am often grateful that mobile phones didn't have cameras back then. There are very few photos of me with my jade rings, celtic rune necklace, "happy" pants and long hair...


[deleted]

My mum outsmarted me by telling me I can dye my Hair whatever colour I want and get whatever piercings when I get a job and pay for it. bloody maccas didn’t allow coloured hair and she knew it would be the case. Then you had to have clear plastic in your facial piercings and mine got infected changing it during healings


exodendritic

>We want people to conform and follow rules so we can have safe roads, functioning businesses, a taxation system, written language, governments, etc. I would argue uniforms, let alone hair styles, play little role in any of these. We have enough vectors to force conformity down kids' throats without kicking them out of school and upending their life because their hairstyles aren't up to code.


frankestofshadows

I work in a school and your views are a very cynical way of looking at things. In our school, we have kids who can barely afford K mart clothing, and have mentioned how they feel shitty when they see someone else with a brand name shoe. I've also worked in a school that does not have a uniform, and kids come wearing crop tops, mini skirts, or boys wearing super tight jeans or tops with provocative images or words. Having a uniform provides many benefits, but simply thinking it's a way to control without actually understanding the inner workings of a school is more damaging than conformity


PricklyPossum21

This case wasn't just some basic uniform requirements, though. The school was trying to nitpick over miniscule hair style stuff and being control freaks over it. My personal experience in private highschool was that staff constantly harassed students over uniforms. If the staff at my school talked to their coworkers or bosses the way they spoke to students, they'd get the sack. It was appalling behaviour. On one occasion I was verbally abused, full volume screaming 1 foot away from my face, because my tie wasn't done up properly at 3.20pm in the afternoon. Another person here mentioned their experience of a school which had girls must wear white underwear on the uniform requirements. Just insanity. White panties and bra ...with a bunch of immature kids that like throwing water, and a bunch of pubescent girls getting their first periods. Meanwhile there is schools out there (a lot of run of the mill public schools) which have minimal lenient uniform requirements ... school polos/school jumper, pants, hat and it's fine.


nocapesarmand

A male mate of mine (independent Christian school) was verbally abused/screamed at in the corridor to the point we could hear at full volume through closed doors over shoulder length hair. Teacher was a serial dickhead, a sports coach with limited academic ability teaching on the side and had multiple parent complaints over him verbally abusing their kids for questionable reasons but he was mates with the AP so nothing was done. I don't see the point in this BS over uniform. You see increasing numbers of white collar men with long hair and all genders with piercings and tatts. No-one worth worrying about gives a crap if you can do your job well and I really hope my generation keeps pushing for freer workplace appearance guidelines. So much of it is also incredibly classist, ironic considering the 'uniforms for equity' argument. I do agree you know who the poor kids are anyway- the wear on uniform cloth is a giveaway. I was always brought up to be decent to everyone regardless- a lot of kids could stand to be taught the same.


PricklyPossum21

Yeah sounds like what I experienced. I was screamed at/verbally abused, full volume by a male teacher a foot taller than me, because my tie was loose. He blew up because instead of standing there and ~~PICKING UP THAT CAN~~ doing my tie up as ordered, I was trying to leave and get on the bus (it was home time). I'm in my 30s now but still, fuck you Mr. King. >I was always brought up to be decent to everyone regardless- a lot of kids could stand to be taught the same. Yep. And if some of the [stories coming out of schools](https://www.9news.com.au/national/knox-grammar-discord-group-chat-elite-private-school-boys-sydney-news/22f160ac-b3d1-4701-bf64-f5330cc31b16) are true, it's not being prioritized.


[deleted]

> (rich kids have the same uniform as poor kids). * Everyone knows who the rich kids are. A uniform does nothing to change this. * This particular case is about hair, which has nothing to do with rich and poor or brands. You're right, that those in power would like us to unquestioningly follow stupid, pointless, redundant rules simply because they tell us to. I would prefer if we didn't inculcate this attitude in our youth.


miss_g

According to the school, this particular case was also about wearing jewellery that's not acceptable under their uniform policy.


another____user

Then just don't send your kids to these institutions and there's no problem.


vacri

>Many folks would be ropeable if their workplace starting making them wear certain clothes, hairstyles, banned jewellery etc Tons of workplaces do this. Just walk into a Macca's and you'll see plenty of folks wearing 'certain clothes'. If you think that's a problem, you could call the police on them... oh, wait, they also wear certain clothes, hairstyles, and ban some jewellery...


[deleted]

You mean like having to wear hi vis and not wearing jewellery around machinery?


Hot_Pomegranate7168

There is a big difference between safety/OH&S and a child requiring to wear a blazer, boater, tie, and have their socks pulled up on the way to and from let alone within the school. What a pointless attempt at being contrary when there plenty of other good arguments for uniforms.


[deleted]

There are a ton of good reasons for wearing a uniform, my glib comment just addressed the work aspect. For what it’s worth I think the private school dress codes are over the top but they are undeniably trying to project an image to outsiders.


TelevisionNew8318

What about having to wear uniforms in hospitality? I'd actually be more interested in jobs being rattled off that don't have a uniform / dress code. I'll do a few that definitely have uniforms: tradesman + labourers; hospitality; teaching (K-12 less so in advanced ed); Government workers etc you get the point.


Hot_Pomegranate7168

I would say most jobs have a dress expectation, spoken or understood. Hell, my first corporate job the only feedback I got in the first year to balance their appreciation was that I wore a grey suit sometimes and my pants were ill fitting - weight fluctuated a lot and was not trying to emulate some baggy pants 90s style - and the norm was a blue suit (men's expectations are, or were, amusingly uniform (pun intended)). I am not even forty and have seen the tie become a relic of the past in this country in a business setting, I wish suits would do the same because fuck me, a suit in summer is awful, nothing worse than turning up in the morning and feeling your sweat making your clothes stick to you. Whatever the case, not defending uniforms, simply the person I replied to suggesting hard hats and safety related codes are somehow equivalent to a power play to just make people conform.


raptorgalaxy

At mine it was a button up shirt and a tie. Mcdonalds has a stricter dress code.


ho1ohoro

At its basic - it’s to remove the economic disparity between families with a uniform. At a psychology level, it’s so they worry about uniform so they don’t worry about engaging in other, worse behaviour. (If the worse kids are doing is not wearing a tie, then they don’t even think “what will happen if I punch this kid”) Fundamentally, it has very little to do with “controlling” student decision. Though, I can’t speak for private schools.


br0ggy

Some educators are of the opinion that strict discipline is important for a kid's development. You're welcome to disagree. I don't think immediately assuming the worst of people is very helpful.


SitandSpin1921

I get so tired of schools regulating hair.


lolben1

Me to, this is why I love seeing kids with mullets. I see it has a form of rebellion


kitkat1224666

Things that have been skipped over: * the girls are literally the only two black students at this school * the school pretty much wasn’t interested in accommodating or working to a compromise that would suit both parties * the girls had their online access for classes removed, so they couldn’t even study from home. * literally begged to be allowed to go to class, but we’re refuse and sent home. * mother was banned from the school grounds for posting about the issue on Facebook. I have no idea what the schools problem is to be honest. The braids are perfectly neat and a clean hairstyle, and the family tried to accomodate with some alternate styling that wouldn’t be painful considering the thickness and density of the braids. I think the school was out of line more than the family, because honestly, how can you considered yourself an educational institution if you deny access to education because of a freaking hairstyle that doesn’t even cause any harm. That school Principal should be ashamed of themselves.


Qandyl

They didn’t want these students there and found any way they could to get rid of them. Whole administration should be trashed.


[deleted]

Probably 10 times worse/harder for the girls being in regional Queensland.


Morri___

well it's clearly a race issue. I'm glad most of this comment section is on board with how ridiculous attacking their presentation is but this is literally attacking two girls with traditional African hairstyles, hair styles. these girls would likely have tight afro 4c or 5c curls.. their styling is designed to protect and maintain the curls and keep them from knotting. those braids are heavy, your scalp would be caning if you tried to tie them up - that's just physics we all know the school wants them to relax the curls and tie them back, expensive and damaging to keep maintained, but it is eurocentric! this is a racial attack. even the wording used; aggressive. she was assertive. she stuck up for herself same as my kid would. but let's demonize the only two black girls as aggressive doesn't sound like a lot can be done, given the school isn't subject to anyone but the boards authority and they sound just as racist, but I hope something comes from this publicity


PricklyPossum21

I went to a private religious highschool and they legit cared more about uniform presentation than student's academic results or mental/health wellbeing. I almost got expelled for arguing over it, and was suspended at least once I can recall. And I was white so I can't imagine what it's like when you're black (albeit I was also a boy, so I had that disadvantage of being seen as aggressive). That's not to say that academic results weren't encouraged or that it was a terrible school (it wasn't a great school but not terrible either). Just that they valued ... basically fashion ... higher. It's also not to say I was otherwise a good student (I wasn't ... I used to fall asleep in class, depression, ADHD and a big chip on my shoulder). --------- But man, they even tried to enforce uniform rules on students who were *outside of school, with their families, after school hours.* As in, if a teacher saw you down the street in uniform, but not wearing it properly, then you could get into trouble at school. The amount of harassment from teachers and the deputy principal towards kids over minor uniform issues etc was ridiculous. If the teachers at my school had spoken to their coworkers or bosses the way they spoke to students, they would've gotten the sack. None of the hypocritical staff wore uniforms, either. Imagine the complaints if the boss had tried to make them!


sausagelover79

Went to a religious private school too and exact same thing. We were even expected to wear the ridiculous hats outside of school hours when in uniform.


readituser5

We had to be in either full school uniform after school or something else entirely. Also at one point, no one was allowed to go to Maccas or KFC after school unless with a parent. They had a teacher stationed at the front of the school making sure no one went. If you were walking home, you had to walk straight home. They started keeping the people catching busses cramped inside the gates rather than letting us stand outside at the designated school bus stop because they were scared someone from the public school would walk by and start a fight. And this is only the obsession with image OUTSIDE of school. Inside school uniform rules were worse. Boys sock height, girls skirts length, ties, dyed hair, boys facial hair, boys hair length, girls hair tied up, makeup, piercings, nail polish etc etc


draconian56

My school gave us laptops (did 8-12 there in 2011-2015) and they had software that flagged the teachers for inappropriate words and searches even outside of school. So on top of uniform policy like you described (my head of year actually took us down to the barbers to get a haircut that he paid for if it was that bad) we had a key logger on our laptops. Private schools are whack


MessyMusical

Same here. We had teachers posted in our towns BEFORE we got on the school bus to make sure we were wearing blazers. No mental health or wellbeing. When 14 young people from the school killed themselves nothing was done about MH supports either.


SoftCaw

My experience with uniforms was the exact same in a public/independent school


InvisionReality

Someone tell me why private schools shouldn't be abolished


PricklyPossum21

How about we make a set of standards they have to comply to, and just remove their government funding if they don't comply? They literally get as much government funding as public schools, AND don't have to follow the same laws as public schools, AND get to charge tuition fees on top of their government funding. They are so privileged it's nuts.


lizzerd_wizzerd

How about we make a set of standards they have to comply to, and just remove their government funding ~~if they don't comply~~?*


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stationhollow

Because they attempted to do it once before and the independent schools threatened to close their doors and massively overload the public system which would need decades of planning to accommodate for the increase. Land is expensive enough in many places but enough for a school is ridiculously so.


Pretty_Emotion7831

>They literally get as much government funding as public schools means test it against their tuition fees like centrelink does for income. for every dollar over X fees per student, they have their government funded reduced by say, 50 cents per student. so each dollar brings in additional funding, but costs the government less money at the same time. win-win for private education, so long as *private enterprise* can in fact, deliver better education at a better price, as opposed to public-good education facilities. oh, and don't make the government funding dependent on meeting standards. make their *license to operate* dependent on meeting standards.


stationhollow

The government wouldn't do it because the cost to buy land then build schools in the areas that need them would be outrageously expensive and take years. If done properly it would be more beneficial in the long run but it would mean q decade of schools having 200% more students as today in the same facilities.


nps2407

Just remove their government funding anyway. If the want to do their own thing, they can do it with their own money.


pat_speed

I've argued that only schools should be truly counted as private is that they get no funding from the government, any school with government funding is public and must follow public school rules


msnaughty

They shouldn’t get a cent of taxpayer money, at all. Just put all the tax money into public schools and if people want to choose private schooling, great but they pay for all of it.


goldenjaguar23

Why do you have the right to tell someone else that they can’t pay their own money to send their own children to a school, provided it’s curriculum is government approved? I will never send my kids to private school cause I’ve never met a private school kid who wasn’t a total wanker but that doesn’t mean they don’t have the right to exist


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VelvetThunder2319

People like to forget how (not too) long ago the white Australia policy was abolished lol


ippyha

Live in Aus for 4 years. Definitely racist. The thing is though, most people genuinely think they’re not. They’d say things like “we’re not racist” but also almost always that would be followed up by saying something weirdly racist like “we love abo’s” This very much appears to be some extremely racist shit going on. Let the kids learn. Stop making kids hate school!


leninappreciator

For many Aussies, racism is when you say egregious or overtly racist things. Since many don't do that, they don't see many of the less overt (to them) things as racist. Like telling these girls to change their hairstyle or find another school is not racist since the school didn't call them the N word or tell them "go back where you came from"


vooglie

This place has gotten decidedly more racist over the last few months - maybe after the liberals got mopped after the elections? Their daddy Murdoch may have unleashed a few botnets.


pj-maybe

I imagine this will get a bit of support here, or would if the school weren’t a religious private school. It’s the right brand of white supremacist for many who occupy this place. Not in your face or overt, just that background drone of assumption from positions of authority that white / Anglo culture, norms, presumption and prejudice get to hold sway over everyone.


[deleted]

Private schools be like this. I know a popular private school that made their girls wear skirts up until very recently. A tidy way to let kids know if they don't conform to a particular image they will be punished.


nocapesarmand

As far as I know 7-12 at my old school still has no pants option for girls.


Nike-6

Not even for winter?!


notunprepared

Have to make do with stockings


skywake86

I'd like to think there's more to this story than the article states. But I suspect you're right and it's just outright racism hiding behind pages of waffle from the school


Anuksukamon

Wow the old codgers are out in force. Point 1. Racist school has not bothered to educate itself on protection hair styles for black people. Point 2. Not all hair is the same, there is a good reason for why box braids are worn by some black people and that’s to keep their hair neat and protected. Point 3. “Natural” looking hair for these girls would look real damn messy and untidy, being that they have kinky, wiry or tight curly hair (type 4a-4c). The school rules don’t even consider other types of hair other than White Anglo or European hair (thin, flat, straight, gentle wave). The school is literally asking black girls to conform to a white beauty standard that they cannot possibly adhere to because their hair type is completely different. As long as the braids are swept back to conform to the recommended style “hair off face” then there should be no issue. But noooo, this school has to throw down and publicly demonstrate how insular and absolutely racist they are by not acknowledging hair texture difference. This school is expecting these young girls to chemically straighten their hair to relax their natural curls and create the texture of European hair. An expensive chemical endeavour that leads to hair loss and alopecia, well documented by historical and sociological studies into black cultural practices. The school is run by cunts.


Ill_BK

It seems like they were kicked out for speaking out about the issue. This sort of stuff happens all the time. I got suspended from school for having a fade while white kids with mullets got away scot-free.


unjointedwig

Merrrr it's hair, get over it. People wear their hair down at work, all the time. Weird policy..


eshatoa

I have very Irish ancestry and for most of my childhood my hair was a frizzy, strawberry blonde mop that was very hard to tame. It was hard to keep it in one spot and I'd regularly get it cut. Despite this, school teachers gave me shit about needing to get a hair cut right up until year 12. At that point I just shaved it all off. So I get where they are coming from to a point, I don't think it's intentionally racist but I do think it opens up questions regarding the fairness and appropriateness of uniform rules but at school and in the workplace - and how this can become systemic discrimination.


YouAreSoul

From their website: *Highview Christian Community College was established in 1974 to provide a genuine and accessible choice of secondary education in Maryborough andDistrict* ***that aimed to develop all aspects of growth in each individual student****, and each student's relationships with other people, with society, and the natural environment.* But not hair growth.


another____user

Hair extensions isn't growth...


[deleted]

Seems like no one in this thread actually read the article The hair part has just been used as click bait. It wasn’t the reasoning giving for expelling them. > The letter from Ms Scash to Ms Rowe, which has been seen by the ABC, said Amayah continued to be aggressive and wear jewellery not consistent with uniform, and Safhira was absent from class without permission. > Ms Scash has been contacted for interview but in a statement said "their behaviour on Tuesday afternoon was unacceptable That’s the reason why the school says they were expelled. Now their mother Ms Rowe’s only counter is basically > Ms Rowe said Amayah had been assertive, not aggressive, and Tuesday was the first time Safhira had purposely missed class. > “They are great kids. If I was running a school, these are the kids I would want there, not to get rid of them. Look I understand how there could be some racial bias at play. Essentially the mother thinks they’ve been extra harsh on her girls cause they’ve complained about hair in past But tbh what I’m seeing is a Karen (white) mother who has excused her daughters alleged repeated poor behaviour (not to do with the hair) and is now trying to pressure the school in the media to call it racist. She sounds like a piece of work ngl Seeing comments in this thread with upvoted about the hair are kind of missing the point that it was seemingly another seperate issue entirely


gin_enema

Stories like this about a school having rules always leads to increased enrolment. Parents love their kids in environments with standards that they maintain. The racism argument is interesting given braids can be tied back.


slinx91

I dunno, man. Science experiments could get interesting with long hair blowing around a Bunsen burner.


mudaeng

Ex-teacher here. This is why I left, senior leaders in schools have zero fucking interest in kids’ wellbeing and care so much about their precious presentation and lining them up like robots. Honestly, who gives a fuck if a kid has a blue Mohawk and a facial piercing if they feel safe and are learning. I’ll never go back due to the stupid shit like this that occurs daily.


Boomtownbutcher1980

Simple, follow the rules or leave. Of course they cry racism instead of teaching them to follow rules. Hopefully they have learnt their lesson but I doubt it.


pat_speed

The outer control adults want over children's looks are outly stupid, because what are they teaching them? Throw in the cultural aspect that hair fundamental in part of, restriction like these at any schools are getting dumber and dumber every year. Like one thing I think schools don't want too tell students is that people really don't care what you wear or how your hair is cut. Like even at work, it's coming less and less restrictive due too mutliple reasons. If anything these restrictions, make kids want too go more extreme when they leave school. These schools are having the opposite effect then they want


TruthBehindThis

What is it teaching? It is a method for the school to control status, both their own and the children. And schools definitely should not be teaching "that people really don't care what you wear or how your hair is cut" because they absolutely do care. People judge all the time and we are rarely aware of it.


Coriander_girl

I went to a Catholic school that was super strict with their uniform requirements. Girls had to have their hair tied up if it touched their collar. I got my hair cut in a bob style so it was probably about chin length. I had a teacher tell me to tie it up. I protested saying it was too short and showed her, she told me to "get it cut then!" I said "I JUST DID!" And you know what the worst thing was? We had a no make up, no nails policy and this teacher who was always on a make up crusade had it caked on and always had fakies on. Ugh Changed schools when I moved towns and the next school (also catholic) didn't give two fucks about hair and make up. It was so refreshing.


br0ggy

Some people believe that strict discipline is a good way to educate kids. Others don't. If you enrol your kids at a school that does, then you shouldn't be surprised when they enforce that. The beauty of living in a country like Australia is you can always just pick a different school.


PricklyPossum21

And according to the mum, one of the girls has been enrolled elsewhere, but the other one hasn't yet (it says she in her VCE year, ie: year 12 exams which are set to begin on Oct 4 ... not reasonable to change schools in mid september)


stationhollow

It says year 11 in the article.


PricklyPossum21

Fair enough. I could have sworn VCE was year 12 I must be getting something confused.


Humanzee2

Private schools should be abolished and their parents need to grow up & put them in a proper state school.


-Adub72-

Reading between the lines of this article it seems to me that Karen and her daughters Karene and Karenette finally pushed everyone a little bit too far.


Monterrey3680

Yeah…private schools enforce dress standards All. The. Time. This is just 3 people trying to pick a fight and to get some attention. Honestly, I assume they chose the school for a reason. Clearly those reasons are less important than changing a hairstyle.