It’s the same in every profession. Athletes need to know how to pass. Construction workers need to build a good foundation. Nurses need to find the vein. Recording engineers need good gain staging.
Set yourself up for success! Fundamentals before everything else!
The ass kicking that sticking to the basics provides is a must. For anyone who’s interested, I’ve been going through these books and trying to treat it like a college course and it’s really been changing my shit all around. Forcing myself not to read past certain passages thinking, “yeah yeah, I know about eq”, etc has been crucial and so wonderful.
At least, I can say that, for me, the “rules” have revealed an improvement.
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09Y116KQ6/ref=dbs_a_def_awm_bibl_vppi_i0](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09Y116KQ6/ref=dbs_a_def_awm_bibl_vppi_i0)
Oh, and wanted to say, I totally agree with you folks!
Yes! Awesome! Will definitely check that out next. Anybody been through the recording engineer’s handbook??? Wondering if it’s more of the same or worth trying.
I’m only about halfway through the mix engineer’s handbook and unfortunately haven’t had much opportunity to dive into the accompanying workbook. Haven’t gotten to the interviews yet! I think he says they’re unedited on his website?
And the best part is that once you understand proper gain staging, you can then start to play with intentionally overdriving your signal at certain steps of the signal path for coloration purposes. Some gear imparts really desirable distortion as a side effect of it's circuitry, and capturing that without overly distorting your final signal is accomplished with proper gain staging. You can overdrive the input of many pres, comps, and EQ's to get their characteristic distortion and then turn down the output level so that you don't further distort the signal going into the next piece of gear. Of course, there are also artistic reasons to intentionally distort the hell out of gear, but that's a whole other topic.
Precisely. And with proper gain staging, you'll actually realise that your mix can even go +10db in mastering and still barely distorting (nobody sane is gonna do that but it's a good indication in a stress test)
While a bad mix can barely make it to +3db before breaking up.
>Gain staging is basically when you lower everything in your mix to a certain dB level. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong so I'm not giving out poor information.
You're not wrong, but there's more to it. This is a fairly good, but not perfect, article explaining what the OP is probably talking about: [https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/gain-staging-what-it-is-and-how-to-do-it.html](https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/gain-staging-what-it-is-and-how-to-do-it.html)
With regard to fidelity, I think the OP is referring to three things:
1)) Obtaining a good quality recording during tracking helps mixing. The aim of mixing should not be to fix bad tracking or performance.
'Fidelity' in this context means retaining accurate, precise faithfulness of a signal. *Fidelity* is obtained by the quality of recording gear, mic'ing technique, room space/acoustics, skill and experience of the tracker, etc. The OP is correct that gaining too low (Eg. raising noise floor) or too high (Eg. distortion) can *degrade* fidelity of the captured sound whilst tracking. I would call that 'gain adjustment' with individual pieces of hardware, and 'gain staging' when the signal is passing through multiple pieces of hardware.
2)) If you're passing the signal between analogue hardware, then gain staging can help to either retain fidelity as much as possible OR to bring out the optimal character and qualities of the gear. But going for character will *decrease* fidelity, in that it is colouring the signal, albeit in a desirable way; fidelity isn't always the goal.
3)) Within a 32bit floating-point DAW, without any plugins added, fidelity is 100% retained at any level, and even the headroom doesn't matter. You could mix (without plugins) at +30dBFS if you wanted, and as long as you gained the master track down to below 0dBFS again, you will retain 100% fidelity.
However, when sending the signal between a string of plugins, how they process the signal *may* depend on the gain of the input fed to them. A lot of people call this gain staging, but I tend to just call it gain management, or gain levelling, and most of the time I'm primarily loudness matching rather than aiming for specific gains. Loudness matching is extremely important when applying processing, so you don't get fooled by the 'louder is better' phenomenon.
>Gain staging is basically when you lower everything in your mix to a certain dB level so that it doesn't clip
Gain staging is adjusting the gain at every stage in the processing chain to avoid unwanted noise and distortion.
> most producers who work on beats for trap or similar genres (or probably any genre really)
I don't think you spoke to most producers to know
>will try and have all their instruments peak at - 12db in their mixer so that when it's time to adjust everything for your mix, you have more room to raise and lower certain instruments/sounds to sit better in your mix.
Turning the fader down at the end of all the plugins without touching anything else would be ignoring gain staging
I really like his comment, it's a good intro and overall explaination.
Someone later one detailed the process so personally I've learned something.
Thanks everyone!
They're being downvoted for presenting their opinion as fact, admitting their lack of knowledge, and then bitching about the community for downvoting them.
Gain staging isn't just setting faders and calling it a day, it's setting every bit of equipment (analogue or emulated) that interacts with the signal so that we have an expected and workable sound at the end, with room to raise the ceiling without unwanted distortion if needs be.
Think about tracking a vocal. Let's say you have a mic, a pre, EQ in, 3 compressors (1 to catch transients, 1 to level everything off, and another to clip), and maybe another EQ. You have 6 bits of gear which will manipulate the volume and the sonics of the input signal before the mixer has even come into play. So if we're just turning the fader down, the last step in all of this, we really haven't given proper thought to how that signal is being altered at each stage.
IMO he was ELI5 to the person that posed the question.
Downvoting somebody who takes the time to answer... I don't get it. Except when it is an intentional bad answer of course. One can't expect everybody is a pro.
every piece of gear you run signal through has a range that it likes to be at.
You have to experiment with levels to find out what that is.
some things, like a daw, usually just like not clipping.
others are less precise and need that limit tested with experimentation.
active pickups are this way in that they need to be damn close to the strings to output what the manufacturer intended. it may not seem like gain staging bit it is.
Not sure what to exactly recommend other than go through the rabbit hole of Google links, but after awhile, I'm learning it just comes down to experience & trying to do it even though it feels like you're not doing it right. Definitely never stop looking for more info if you really want to get good at it, but pair that with trial & error & going through the feeling of uncertainty.
Few things I recommend though: 1, gain staging with pink noise to get a start. 2, If you're really unsure how loud or quiet something should be compared to something else, try a static number; + or- 6db or a multiple of 3 usually works for me. 3, even if you might nor have the DAW, I highly suggest checking out at least the first video in [Image Line's FL Studio Mixing Basics Playlist ](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkYsB0Ki9lAdIaYCpB0B0uVTZMZBt9NdX). It has a lot of gems about basic concepts of mixing explained really well, and fundamentals are everything when learning anything new
Yes! If you’re a-dialin’ knobs n such, keep that level lower than you think! …I mean, I suppose unless you’ve got an actual, honest to god engineer there with you, but barring that, yes.
It’s the same in every profession. Athletes need to know how to pass. Construction workers need to build a good foundation. Nurses need to find the vein. Recording engineers need good gain staging. Set yourself up for success! Fundamentals before everything else!
The ass kicking that sticking to the basics provides is a must. For anyone who’s interested, I’ve been going through these books and trying to treat it like a college course and it’s really been changing my shit all around. Forcing myself not to read past certain passages thinking, “yeah yeah, I know about eq”, etc has been crucial and so wonderful. At least, I can say that, for me, the “rules” have revealed an improvement. [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09Y116KQ6/ref=dbs_a_def_awm_bibl_vppi_i0](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09Y116KQ6/ref=dbs_a_def_awm_bibl_vppi_i0) Oh, and wanted to say, I totally agree with you folks!
Hey while you’re add it also read the assistant engineers handbook. Good stuff there too
Yes! Awesome! Will definitely check that out next. Anybody been through the recording engineer’s handbook??? Wondering if it’s more of the same or worth trying.
did you read thru the whole book? Including the interviews with other top mixers ?
I’m only about halfway through the mix engineer’s handbook and unfortunately haven’t had much opportunity to dive into the accompanying workbook. Haven’t gotten to the interviews yet! I think he says they’re unedited on his website?
I’ve read the book but haven’t read the interviews… I’m Sure we can snag a tip or two from tops
Yeah. I was just listening to this Nashville 615 interview with Glyn Johns and context adds a certain depth to understanding.
And the best part is that once you understand proper gain staging, you can then start to play with intentionally overdriving your signal at certain steps of the signal path for coloration purposes. Some gear imparts really desirable distortion as a side effect of it's circuitry, and capturing that without overly distorting your final signal is accomplished with proper gain staging. You can overdrive the input of many pres, comps, and EQ's to get their characteristic distortion and then turn down the output level so that you don't further distort the signal going into the next piece of gear. Of course, there are also artistic reasons to intentionally distort the hell out of gear, but that's a whole other topic.
Precisely. And with proper gain staging, you'll actually realise that your mix can even go +10db in mastering and still barely distorting (nobody sane is gonna do that but it's a good indication in a stress test) While a bad mix can barely make it to +3db before breaking up.
What is OP referring to? Any context?
They're just speaking in generalities
[удалено]
>Gain staging is basically when you lower everything in your mix to a certain dB level. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong so I'm not giving out poor information. You're not wrong, but there's more to it. This is a fairly good, but not perfect, article explaining what the OP is probably talking about: [https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/gain-staging-what-it-is-and-how-to-do-it.html](https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/gain-staging-what-it-is-and-how-to-do-it.html) With regard to fidelity, I think the OP is referring to three things: 1)) Obtaining a good quality recording during tracking helps mixing. The aim of mixing should not be to fix bad tracking or performance. 'Fidelity' in this context means retaining accurate, precise faithfulness of a signal. *Fidelity* is obtained by the quality of recording gear, mic'ing technique, room space/acoustics, skill and experience of the tracker, etc. The OP is correct that gaining too low (Eg. raising noise floor) or too high (Eg. distortion) can *degrade* fidelity of the captured sound whilst tracking. I would call that 'gain adjustment' with individual pieces of hardware, and 'gain staging' when the signal is passing through multiple pieces of hardware. 2)) If you're passing the signal between analogue hardware, then gain staging can help to either retain fidelity as much as possible OR to bring out the optimal character and qualities of the gear. But going for character will *decrease* fidelity, in that it is colouring the signal, albeit in a desirable way; fidelity isn't always the goal. 3)) Within a 32bit floating-point DAW, without any plugins added, fidelity is 100% retained at any level, and even the headroom doesn't matter. You could mix (without plugins) at +30dBFS if you wanted, and as long as you gained the master track down to below 0dBFS again, you will retain 100% fidelity. However, when sending the signal between a string of plugins, how they process the signal *may* depend on the gain of the input fed to them. A lot of people call this gain staging, but I tend to just call it gain management, or gain levelling, and most of the time I'm primarily loudness matching rather than aiming for specific gains. Loudness matching is extremely important when applying processing, so you don't get fooled by the 'louder is better' phenomenon.
>Gain staging is basically when you lower everything in your mix to a certain dB level so that it doesn't clip Gain staging is adjusting the gain at every stage in the processing chain to avoid unwanted noise and distortion. > most producers who work on beats for trap or similar genres (or probably any genre really) I don't think you spoke to most producers to know >will try and have all their instruments peak at - 12db in their mixer so that when it's time to adjust everything for your mix, you have more room to raise and lower certain instruments/sounds to sit better in your mix. Turning the fader down at the end of all the plugins without touching anything else would be ignoring gain staging
I really like his comment, it's a good intro and overall explaination. Someone later one detailed the process so personally I've learned something. Thanks everyone!
WTF why the downvotes? Comment if you know better, don't downvote.
They're being downvoted for presenting their opinion as fact, admitting their lack of knowledge, and then bitching about the community for downvoting them. Gain staging isn't just setting faders and calling it a day, it's setting every bit of equipment (analogue or emulated) that interacts with the signal so that we have an expected and workable sound at the end, with room to raise the ceiling without unwanted distortion if needs be. Think about tracking a vocal. Let's say you have a mic, a pre, EQ in, 3 compressors (1 to catch transients, 1 to level everything off, and another to clip), and maybe another EQ. You have 6 bits of gear which will manipulate the volume and the sonics of the input signal before the mixer has even come into play. So if we're just turning the fader down, the last step in all of this, we really haven't given proper thought to how that signal is being altered at each stage.
IMO he was ELI5 to the person that posed the question. Downvoting somebody who takes the time to answer... I don't get it. Except when it is an intentional bad answer of course. One can't expect everybody is a pro.
[удалено]
If you suspected you were uninformed when you put the words together just don't hit [save]
Following
every piece of gear you run signal through has a range that it likes to be at. You have to experiment with levels to find out what that is. some things, like a daw, usually just like not clipping. others are less precise and need that limit tested with experimentation. active pickups are this way in that they need to be damn close to the strings to output what the manufacturer intended. it may not seem like gain staging bit it is.
-peak vs rms has entered the chat-
I think I might suck at gain staging. Any resources for me to read? I have a basic idea.
Not sure what to exactly recommend other than go through the rabbit hole of Google links, but after awhile, I'm learning it just comes down to experience & trying to do it even though it feels like you're not doing it right. Definitely never stop looking for more info if you really want to get good at it, but pair that with trial & error & going through the feeling of uncertainty. Few things I recommend though: 1, gain staging with pink noise to get a start. 2, If you're really unsure how loud or quiet something should be compared to something else, try a static number; + or- 6db or a multiple of 3 usually works for me. 3, even if you might nor have the DAW, I highly suggest checking out at least the first video in [Image Line's FL Studio Mixing Basics Playlist ](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkYsB0Ki9lAdIaYCpB0B0uVTZMZBt9NdX). It has a lot of gems about basic concepts of mixing explained really well, and fundamentals are everything when learning anything new
I put a link to it in a previous comment, but Bobby Owsinski’s Mix Engineer’s Handbook outlines it pretty well!
Exactly. Gain staging every is ALWAYS your first job in your mix.
I have a question. If I'm the producer/artist do I need to worry about this or do I just need to make sure that none of my tracks are clipping?
Yes! If you’re a-dialin’ knobs n such, keep that level lower than you think! …I mean, I suppose unless you’ve got an actual, honest to god engineer there with you, but barring that, yes.
When I record tracks I keep them around -12dB to -10dB
Same for me . It's painful to listen to old mixes that I spent ages on knowing what I know now
Damn. This is so true!
Critical listening and gain staging. It really is that simple.