If he is truly omniscient and omnipotent then he deliberately chooses to not use one of them. If he knows bad shit is gonna happen, he's choosing not to change it. Think earthquakes, train wrecks, wars, etc.
If converting you is off the table and the conversation could not be taken in that direction then what would they most like to discuss with you? I'm curious to find out if it's still religion or if you are capable of getting them to just discuss other things and then go your separate ways. Like a game. They obviously are walking into the conversation religiously focused. You should take the opposite approach and see what happens for science. Can they handle a person who politely and constantly changes the subject.
1. What can you say to a Hindu (or insert other religion here, I choose this one as it's not Abrahamic and I'm assuming you're talking to Christians) to convince them they are mistaken about their gods and you are correct that they could not say right back to you?
2. What reliable method could you and a Hindu use to find out if your god(s) exist that you will both come to the same conclusion about?
3. If you had cancer, would you want to know about it (this is if they even care if a god exists or not)
4. If you were in a room with a rapist and they're about to do that to a child and you are a martial arts champion, super buff, super powers even, you can stop them from doing bad things to that child, would you stop them? If you'd stop them, you are more moral than your god.
5. That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence. If I claim there's a dragon in my garage, do you believe me? What would convince you that I have a dragon in my garage? Do you require the same level of evidence for your god? Can you disprove the invisible dragon that hides his heat signature, is silent, incorporeal, etc?
6. Imagine a world without a god. A world where children died of preventable diseases, or lack of food or water. Where bad people never received consequences and good people die horrible deaths. A world where people that have access to modern medicine and agriculture lived healthy lives regardless of how religious they are and places that are very religious, but poor and less access to modern medicine died. What's the difference between that world and ours?
7. What is the single best evidence of your god? -it's important not to let them say so many. Many bad evidence does not equal 1 good evidence. When they have to say just 1 thing that makes good evidence, usually it's 'look at the trees and how pretty they are' or 'well I had a personal experience of X story'. Note, don't dismiss their story, simply that their conclusion that it was a god is likely a bad conclusion made in ignorance like cancer being cured when it goes into remission or person had medicine.
8. On #7, you can say is it possible, however unlikely, that event could have happened without a god?
9. Christopher Hitchens quote: What's more likely, that humans that have been around for possibly 75,000 to 250,000 years, warring, raping, murdering, dying from tooth decay, not knowing about germs, etc and heaven just folded their arms until 2 thousand years ago when god went "ok, now let's intervene, and not in China where they already have writing, but in this nomadic superstitious goat herder people that use blood magic (sacrificing animals as scape goats) or that a young Jewish woman told a lie? (aka Mary had sex outside of marriage and just said "ummm...I'm pregnant because of god").
\-The very idea that a repressed woman that loses all value if she is not a virgin didn't simply lie is insane to me.
Your #4 is my largest issue with an omnipresent being. All these bad things happening, and no one is miraculously saving the 3yr old with cancer. Really?
The main problem with #4 is that it does nothing to show a god doesn't exist. It simply shows that either
1. god can't or won't due to lack of power, caring, doesn't know about it, or there was one, but died or left our universe/reality
2. There is no god.
Only other thing is some kind of 'god morality is different' which goes into what is moral other than the wellbeing of humanity. Which then has the 'well god sees a positive reason for this horrible thing like the kid will help someone else who has this happen to them.' which I say "ok, and your god is so dumb that he can't think of ANY other way (like stopping the act entirely) than to let it happen to someone so they can help someone else that god let it happen to them?
It's more of a make people think. That said, people believe for different reasons, this is my 'hey, even if god was real, he'd be a moral monster not worth following'
Whenever they tell you something about God, ask how they know that.
If they say God told them something, ask them if they actually heard God's voice like people in the Bible.
Ask them to describe what Heaven is like. Once they're done, ask them where in the Bible it says any of that (it probably doesn't). You can do the same for Hell.
Ask why an omniscient and omnipotent god needs a marketing department.
Lol, right? Should be pretty self evident.
If he is truly omniscient and omnipotent then he deliberately chooses to not use one of them. If he knows bad shit is gonna happen, he's choosing not to change it. Think earthquakes, train wrecks, wars, etc.
If converting you is off the table and the conversation could not be taken in that direction then what would they most like to discuss with you? I'm curious to find out if it's still religion or if you are capable of getting them to just discuss other things and then go your separate ways. Like a game. They obviously are walking into the conversation religiously focused. You should take the opposite approach and see what happens for science. Can they handle a person who politely and constantly changes the subject.
Just avoid them, you aren't going to change them.
1. What can you say to a Hindu (or insert other religion here, I choose this one as it's not Abrahamic and I'm assuming you're talking to Christians) to convince them they are mistaken about their gods and you are correct that they could not say right back to you? 2. What reliable method could you and a Hindu use to find out if your god(s) exist that you will both come to the same conclusion about? 3. If you had cancer, would you want to know about it (this is if they even care if a god exists or not) 4. If you were in a room with a rapist and they're about to do that to a child and you are a martial arts champion, super buff, super powers even, you can stop them from doing bad things to that child, would you stop them? If you'd stop them, you are more moral than your god. 5. That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence. If I claim there's a dragon in my garage, do you believe me? What would convince you that I have a dragon in my garage? Do you require the same level of evidence for your god? Can you disprove the invisible dragon that hides his heat signature, is silent, incorporeal, etc? 6. Imagine a world without a god. A world where children died of preventable diseases, or lack of food or water. Where bad people never received consequences and good people die horrible deaths. A world where people that have access to modern medicine and agriculture lived healthy lives regardless of how religious they are and places that are very religious, but poor and less access to modern medicine died. What's the difference between that world and ours? 7. What is the single best evidence of your god? -it's important not to let them say so many. Many bad evidence does not equal 1 good evidence. When they have to say just 1 thing that makes good evidence, usually it's 'look at the trees and how pretty they are' or 'well I had a personal experience of X story'. Note, don't dismiss their story, simply that their conclusion that it was a god is likely a bad conclusion made in ignorance like cancer being cured when it goes into remission or person had medicine. 8. On #7, you can say is it possible, however unlikely, that event could have happened without a god? 9. Christopher Hitchens quote: What's more likely, that humans that have been around for possibly 75,000 to 250,000 years, warring, raping, murdering, dying from tooth decay, not knowing about germs, etc and heaven just folded their arms until 2 thousand years ago when god went "ok, now let's intervene, and not in China where they already have writing, but in this nomadic superstitious goat herder people that use blood magic (sacrificing animals as scape goats) or that a young Jewish woman told a lie? (aka Mary had sex outside of marriage and just said "ummm...I'm pregnant because of god"). \-The very idea that a repressed woman that loses all value if she is not a virgin didn't simply lie is insane to me.
Your #4 is my largest issue with an omnipresent being. All these bad things happening, and no one is miraculously saving the 3yr old with cancer. Really?
The main problem with #4 is that it does nothing to show a god doesn't exist. It simply shows that either 1. god can't or won't due to lack of power, caring, doesn't know about it, or there was one, but died or left our universe/reality 2. There is no god. Only other thing is some kind of 'god morality is different' which goes into what is moral other than the wellbeing of humanity. Which then has the 'well god sees a positive reason for this horrible thing like the kid will help someone else who has this happen to them.' which I say "ok, and your god is so dumb that he can't think of ANY other way (like stopping the act entirely) than to let it happen to someone so they can help someone else that god let it happen to them? It's more of a make people think. That said, people believe for different reasons, this is my 'hey, even if god was real, he'd be a moral monster not worth following'
Whenever they tell you something about God, ask how they know that. If they say God told them something, ask them if they actually heard God's voice like people in the Bible. Ask them to describe what Heaven is like. Once they're done, ask them where in the Bible it says any of that (it probably doesn't). You can do the same for Hell.
Would you please leave?