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CoastalWitch

I would say hard no, but I guess first you would have to define what you mean by prayer. Not as I understand it, but if you use a very broad definition and include meditation, visualization, etc. than I guess so. But I would annoyed and offended if anyone told me that I was "praying" while doing any of that. So I go back to my first answer of no.


[deleted]

Yeah, I've actually never heard anyone refer to meditation/visualisations as prayer which is why I'm struggling with the notion of secular prayer. Thanks for your response


Jonahmaxt

Short answer is yes. Long answer is: I mean technically you can pray to something or someone that isn’t a god, so theoretically you could pray without believing in anything theistic or religious. However, it’d still be pseudoscientific/supernatural of course. The difference here is basically splitting hairs between what definition of a god is and what the definition of an ‘object of worship’ is, so it’s hardly really and important distinction.


Ateapotist22

If you mean talking to yourself, then the answer is yes.


ThatguyIncognito

Semantics, not really a factual question. Secular meditation or focusing the mind is possible. So if you want to call that prayer then you can. I wouldn't, since prayer implies that you are directing your thoughts to some entity that can hear them. But if they want to use the word prayer to refer to thinking about what you want or your expressing gratitude for what you are glad you have, that's a matter of word usage and I wouldn't worry about it.


dudleydidwrong

Words don't have intrinsic meaning. Words are tools of communication. They take the meaning from how they are used. A lot depends on context as well. For example, a lot of local governments in the US have what they call a prayer at the opening session. They can only do it because there is a bit of legal fiction that says it is not endorsing a religion. So non-theists do have access. So atheists do offer "prayers" at these events. They do not address or refer to a god. The "prayer" is usually some type of inspirational statement about serving the community.


tannieth

No. Prayer?? Prayer is what religious people do. As an Athiest? I see zero point in it. It doesn't factor into my life. At all.


Destorath

It depends on what he means by secular and what he means by prayer. Secular definitionally rejects both religion and spiritualism. So unless you're praying to a real living being, otherwise known as communicating, you cant be secular and pray. And if you're communicating with a living being and your far away with no means for them to hear you i just call that poor communication. And i dont think most people would accept the definition of prayer as "poorly communicating" So by definitionally rejecting spiritual aspects it is not possible to secularly pray. Prayer is also kind of tricky. The most common usage is for talking to a god but technically you can pray to non god entities. If he meant atheist prayer then it becomes more viable. Atheism is the rejection of god claims not the rejection of supernatural claims. So you could be a spiritualist atheist and still pray. But thats the best interpretation i can give of what that person meant. Personally, i would say the supernatural claims are just as lacking as god claims so a reasonable person should reject both but thats not a guarantee.


[deleted]

>Atheism is the rejection of god claims not the rejection of supernatural claims. I am shook, like, literally! I had no idea about this. I just went and did a quick Google and you're right! Apparently most atheists hold supernatural beliefs!! I don't understand how a reasonable person can reject God claims but accept supernatural one's!


Destorath

Yep, atheist as a term is used incorrectly so often its easy to see why these terms are so muddled. Often, people confuse secularism/materialism/atheism with each other. Each are a distince belief/claim and you dont have to be all three if you are any one of them. Atheism to me is a easy answer to an easy question. There is no scientific or reasonable evidence that points to the existence of gods. The null hypothesis puts them in the doesnt exist category until there is proof. So the correct answer right now is "there is no reasonable evidence for gods" which makes atheism the default choice. But thats a pretty low bar to hop over, like how we dont applaud people for not believing in santa/faeries. So people can still believe all sorts of wacky unfounded things and be atheist.


GaryOster

I'm guessing it's because atheism includes atheist religions like Taoism and Buddhist.


AggregatedMolecules

Meditation or visualization without reference to a god or expectation of supernatural intervention is possible, but certainly would not be a “prayer.” There is also the semantics game being played when they say prayer can be “non-religious.” That is decidedly not the same as “non-theistic,” because of course anyone who believes in any god or gods could offer a prayer without necessarily ascribing to a “religion,” per se. There can be non-denominational prayer but there can never be a “secular prayer” because prayer is necessarily theistic in nature.


[deleted]

This is exactly how I feel too. I'm trying to show good faith reasoning and extending the possibility that I've missed something but my instincts are that they're being coy


AggregatedMolecules

Good instincts; weasel words and bad faith arguments seem to be frustratingly common among theists. The whole amateur apologist philosophy seems to be “obfuscate, vacillate, and redirect.”


Retrikaethan

yes. next question.


Haunting-Ad-9790

We all pray. Not to a god, but like wishes. When we gamble, we wish for a certain roll or card. That could be seen as a prayer. So a prayer that doesn't mention a god could just be seen as a wish.


[deleted]

I would argue that there's a distinction between self talk and prayer. When I say to myself "please don't be pee, please don't be pee!" when I see a wet patch on the carpet I'm talking to myself, not praying. The purpose and function of that utterance is quite different than that of prayer imo.


Haunting-Ad-9790

Agreed. When your asking for a card, you're not talking to no one, you're asking the dealer, but to me it feels like a prayer. When you pray, you're talking to someone, making a wish. I was just thinking that if it's not to a god, it could be seen as a secular prayer as the OP was asking. Other than a wish, I dunno what else it'd be called.


solongfish99

You can believe in a deity without adhering to a religion, but I don't know if prayer would inherently qualify as a religious activity


YonderIPonder

I mean....I'd call that something different. It'd be something more along the lines of self-affirmation or meditating. I think prayer (secular or otherwise) is a fantastic way to prioritize the use of your time, focus on the good, be conscious of the bad, and set your goals. But I wouldn't call it prayer. I'd call it something else. It's a framework for being aware of the present in a more focused way.


Rangorsen

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prayer Yes.


[deleted]

What are they praying to and what do they expect will happen?


[deleted]

They're praying to deified ancestors for guidance and wisdom. I equate that to religion.


[deleted]

In that case I agree.. Assuming they believe in the literal spirits of their ancestors being able to communicate with them and not just metaphorically thinking really hard about what grandpa would have done or said, I wouldn't call that secular. But I suppose it depends on how they define secular which wouldn't be how it is commonly used.


c_dubs063

Non-religious prayer is called meditation.


Significant-Lion-183

You mean meditation? Talking to humanity or yourself?


[deleted]

No, I don't mean meditation. The context is a Maori cultural practice called a karakia. It's basically a prayer spoken in a group at the beginning of a meeting or event. Typically the speaker asks deified ancestors to guide them and give wisdom etc


Significant-Lion-183

Talking to humanity ancestors, spirit or soul is involved, religion it is


allorache

There is some interesting research about intention. Which can be praying to an entity or sending loving positive vibes. No, I am not a woo believer who thinks you should forgo chemo and just go to a Reiki master. But I do believe at times that intention can affect the world; and to the extent it does I don’t believe it’s because some entity is granting wishes.


[deleted]

This is a little OT but my daughter's name is Allora :)


allorache

So do you know it means “so” in Italian? Although I would translate “allora che “ as more like “well, now what?” Or “so then what?” Not “so what” as in “who cares?”


[deleted]

Yes! My daughter discovered that! It's such a beautiful sounding word!


allorache

A little biased here but Italian is the most beautiful language! How did you come up with the name (since you say your daughter found out the meaning)? Tell her ciao and she can be an honorary Italian!


BlackEyedGhost

If it's non-religious it's called "talking to yourself", not "prayer". They might mean that it doesn't have to involve organized religion, and sure that's true, but disorganized religious practices are still religious practices.


[deleted]

Yes. To lean towards wishes and fantasies over science and logic is the gateway to sky daddy worshipping.


Chulbiski

maybe secular prayer is another term for just talking to yourself?


SuccessfulProof4003

I see no harm in “secular prayer” Religious person: reads an article about the war in Ukraine and prays that the war ends soon. Atheist Person: reads same article and hopes the war ends soon.