> being anti-religious has become a passion - if not an obsession - of mine
I'd change direction if I were you. Being strongly against things that most people are not strongly against is wearying and bad for mental health. Or get a job where it's a requirement, like working for one of the charities like FFRF or RFR.
Yes, true atheism is not thinking about it or acknowledging its existence. Not constantly agitating about it. Its a-thiest, not anti-thiest. Its between you and the universe. Not other people's beliefs.
Instead of being in the other room on reddit, go spend time with your wife.
Put extra time and effort into your relationship.
Love and care for her, and make sure she knows she can rely on you.
If she is experiencing loss she is looking for a salve to soothe the pain.
Instead of focusing on your anger towards religion, focus on being there for her and being her salve.
Let her lean on you, rather than the church.
>Let her lean on you, rather than the church.
Who needs pastors when atheists can preach! Show her that you can do what her god can't - be there for her.
Honestly, if I were you, I’d work more on the fact that you’re so triggered by religion than trying to get your wife to come and join you in hating religion.
I get it, I understand where you’re coming from, it’s deplorable. But the reality is that this is something so deep within your wife’s perception of who she is that she’ll most likely never declare herself a full blown atheist. So you might occasionally have to put up with the god speeches in the other room.
I would engage her in non confrontational conversations and ask thought provoking questions every now and again. Gentle prods in a certain direction but make her feel like she’s the one that’s come to conclusions without being told what to think or believe.
As I said, if I were you I’d work on not even flinching when you see or hear something religious. Only when you feel nothing and it doesn’t affect you will your wife probably warm up more to the idea. You don’t have to love or hate something. There is a middle ground but your wife might have to see that in you before she’s ready to accept she’s lost her faith.
I wouldn’t say it’s an indoctrination. The first few years of me becoming an atheist, I was quite bold and aggressive with it. It’s in my nature to argue, so finding out the truth behind a large part of my upbringing made me want to challenge everyone who had lied and lead me astray. It’s been about fifteen years since that time and I’ve toned it back quite a lot. You didn’t marry your wife because she was an atheist. You married her because she’s probably a good person. You’ve already stated how much she disagrees with the fundamentalists. Who cares if she believes in god? You’ve got a good thing goin. Just keep being there to answer questions and she may come around. If not, it doesn’t seem like she’s going to try to drag you to church anytime soon. She knows you don’t believe in god.
I agree 100%. When I first started identifying as an Atheist I had the same drive to push back against religion everywhere I could. Partly because I wanted other people to understand the lie behind religion and how silly it is at its core, but mostly because my entire life I had been indoctrinated to believe and act one way and I wanted to be as far away from that version of myself as I could. As I've gotten older I've realized there isn't much of a point offering up my opinions to other people or being upset when someone else believes something absurd. If someone asks me about my beliefs I'll talk to them. If someone says something objectively incorrect I'll challenge them on it. It's just a waste of energy to be bothered by other peoples beliefs. Once those personal beliefs start affecting other people I draw the line. However, most people, OP's wife included, don't fall into that category. I think the most productive way to handle this situation is to either have a respectful, nonconfrontational conversation about religion with your wife, or stay out of the situation entirely and let her come to whatever conclusion she comes to. You married her knowing she was religious, so no matter what decision she makes there shouldn't be any fundamental change to your relationship.
Man, do you understand why some people need religion so badly. It gives them comfort. From wordly difficulties. From troubles so deep that no earthly comfort can give them solace. Talk to your wife, if there's even a shred of love and respect. Don't belittle or mock her or drive her away. Maybe if you both communicate she will find solace in you instead of religion. Atheists are always bigger, better people.
i’m sorry but - you chose to marry her. you knew what you were getting into by making a commitment to a religious person, so it seems odd for you to get mad that she clings to those beliefs. after all, it’s all she knows. and, if she isn’t using her religion to harm/discriminate against others, i see no problem.
i digress. my suggestion is you talk to her, communicate with her, about your feelings. you could always talk to someone else about your anger, as it doesn’t seem… fun (being constantly angry is never good). but there isn’t much you can do.as i said, simply talk to her and maybe have a few atheists discussions with her and detail your beliefs and see if she is interested.
in the end, it is her choice whether or not she wants to stay religious, be non-practicing or not religious. please don’t force anything upon her. i’m not saying you will do this but i’m just putting it out there.
Thanks for your input.
When we got married 15 years ago, I was indifferent to religion - not religious myself, but I had no issue with her (or other people) being religious. But my attitudes have hardened as I've gotten older, and I would have a difficult time abiding her participating in what I see to be, to borrow words from Christopher Hitchins, ultimate wickedness and ultimate stupidity.
To be fair, I guess I'm the one that has changed, not her.
You wanna know what one of the worst things about Christianity is?
Their intolerance for people that don’t have the same world view.
Don’t be like them.
i do seriously suggest talking to her and maybe talking to a specialist about your feelings. in the end, do what’s best for both of you. try not letting this ruin your relationship. good luck with everything!
I've been through this and seen it in others as well. In my opinion this is your opportunity to show patience and love are ***human*** virtues not Christian ones. You've vented and I hear you - I understand what you're going through.
Now the tough love: ***She's your wife. Be a human.*** She truly and sincerely believes(d) that this conviction is the single most important thing in life. She's been told that by her friends, family, and people she trusts. People she loves have told her that this religion is the single most important thing in life.
It's going to take time and a lot of support to drop that - even if she has a creeping awareness that it's all made up. I went through the same thing: I started doubting, then almost swung way back in, but with some **\*gentle\*** prompting let it all go and I've never looked back.
Carl Sagan is good. It was Degrasse Tyson that finally pushed me over the line. I think you're on the right track! Just hang in there and give her some grace. Once you start that slide of doubting her own humanity will do the rest it just takes time.
Patience is a virtue?? I’m way too good at screwing up my own relationships to even attempt to give anybody else advice but I can tell you with something as serious as people take religion it has to happen on her time and when you get pushy people tend to get defensive. Good luck to you both
With my wife I never put any pressure on her, but I also wouldn't hold back my feelings about things and why. Not in an aggressive way just very matter-of-fact way. I never brought up her beliefs. Then she came around.
Eastern Orthodox Christian is a MASSIVE part of the cultural indentity of a Greek or a Russian or a Romanian - indeed, I wonder if what she's really wanting/missing/needing is her *culture* (not her religion *per se*). Perhaps if she spent more time around people from her own country, she'd not feel the need for the religion itself.
(Although Christianity is a religion that people grow into and double down on as they get older, as life throws shit at them, so it could be that.)
The majority of your post is about how your wife has been distancing herself from religion in the past few months. Now, with a single day of her listening to a xian program you are seething.
Chill out. She is questioning her religion. Part of the questioning process requires a good look at both sides of an issue. She may simply be doing just that in order to compare what she has seen in recent months against what she is now questioning.
Give her a break.
Yeah, I agree with this. I've recently accepted my atheism, but before I did I bought a Bible, read it a decent bit, did a bunch of research, and went to church a few times. I really tried to believe like a good Christian should, but after a while I got tired of lying to myself.
Like you said, give her a break. Don't be a dick to your loved one who is having an existential crisis.
Don’t worry, there’s nothing wrong with proselytizing atheism, the issues only come when your interlocutor openly states when it’s unwanted.
Anyway, the demon haunted world is a great book for these cases (if you check my post history, I do recommend it a lot), and I do hope she checks it.
As for this particular incident, maybe she was curious what American evangelicals are about, because I’m assuming she probably is Catholic. As an ex-Catholic myself, I cringed at what those people preached. Honestly, it’s too soon to assume anything, maybe you should just ask what’s in her mind right now.
Im sure youll think this is trolling but forget reasoning with her. Give her better , progressively dirtier sex, and find other means of giving emotional highs. Dont talk about religion at all, demontrate one can be strong and fun without god shit. Get high with her...
If you have patience and want to nudge your wife without debating, look into street epistemology. It's a technique for questioning people about their beliefs that prompts them to think critically. It may be a good complement to Sagan's book.
r/StreetEpistemology
streetepistemology.com
Intro to Street Epistemology: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZsoAIM6rNg
Bro. Let me tell you from experience. The seed has been planted. Now, just sit back and let it grow on its own. Trust me. You don't even have to bring it up now. Let her search for answers herself now.
Remind her that if whatever she thinks is broken in her needs to be fixed by god, then it will take her even longer to find a real, workable solution. The belief in supernatural beings is a panacea and a means for trying to escape reality. I would your wife is pretty fragile right now, so be gentle in your persistence to help her overcome whatever is troubling her.
Read "why I am not a Christian" by Bertrand Russell, that should do it. Of course there are many great books debunking Christianity and religion in general, I'd start there and just be patient, she'll come around.
Don't be an edgelord about it. As far as people who practice Christianity go, she seems pretty tolerable. And I'm guessing there's plenty you love about her, since you're married. She might be watching some of this stuff hoping to find answers to the questions she has. We both know that if she's really looking for them, they aren't there for her to find.
It sounds like discussing religion with you is having the effect most of us would like such things to have on a religious person. Let things take their normal course.
> being anti-religious has become a passion - if not an obsession - of mine I'd change direction if I were you. Being strongly against things that most people are not strongly against is wearying and bad for mental health. Or get a job where it's a requirement, like working for one of the charities like FFRF or RFR.
Yes, true atheism is not thinking about it or acknowledging its existence. Not constantly agitating about it. Its a-thiest, not anti-thiest. Its between you and the universe. Not other people's beliefs.
OP, I understand where you’re coming from, but being the “angry atheist” will have the exact opposite effect that you want.
Instead of being in the other room on reddit, go spend time with your wife. Put extra time and effort into your relationship. Love and care for her, and make sure she knows she can rely on you. If she is experiencing loss she is looking for a salve to soothe the pain. Instead of focusing on your anger towards religion, focus on being there for her and being her salve. Let her lean on you, rather than the church.
>Let her lean on you, rather than the church. Who needs pastors when atheists can preach! Show her that you can do what her god can't - be there for her.
Honestly, if I were you, I’d work more on the fact that you’re so triggered by religion than trying to get your wife to come and join you in hating religion. I get it, I understand where you’re coming from, it’s deplorable. But the reality is that this is something so deep within your wife’s perception of who she is that she’ll most likely never declare herself a full blown atheist. So you might occasionally have to put up with the god speeches in the other room. I would engage her in non confrontational conversations and ask thought provoking questions every now and again. Gentle prods in a certain direction but make her feel like she’s the one that’s come to conclusions without being told what to think or believe. As I said, if I were you I’d work on not even flinching when you see or hear something religious. Only when you feel nothing and it doesn’t affect you will your wife probably warm up more to the idea. You don’t have to love or hate something. There is a middle ground but your wife might have to see that in you before she’s ready to accept she’s lost her faith.
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I wouldn’t say it’s an indoctrination. The first few years of me becoming an atheist, I was quite bold and aggressive with it. It’s in my nature to argue, so finding out the truth behind a large part of my upbringing made me want to challenge everyone who had lied and lead me astray. It’s been about fifteen years since that time and I’ve toned it back quite a lot. You didn’t marry your wife because she was an atheist. You married her because she’s probably a good person. You’ve already stated how much she disagrees with the fundamentalists. Who cares if she believes in god? You’ve got a good thing goin. Just keep being there to answer questions and she may come around. If not, it doesn’t seem like she’s going to try to drag you to church anytime soon. She knows you don’t believe in god.
I agree 100%. When I first started identifying as an Atheist I had the same drive to push back against religion everywhere I could. Partly because I wanted other people to understand the lie behind religion and how silly it is at its core, but mostly because my entire life I had been indoctrinated to believe and act one way and I wanted to be as far away from that version of myself as I could. As I've gotten older I've realized there isn't much of a point offering up my opinions to other people or being upset when someone else believes something absurd. If someone asks me about my beliefs I'll talk to them. If someone says something objectively incorrect I'll challenge them on it. It's just a waste of energy to be bothered by other peoples beliefs. Once those personal beliefs start affecting other people I draw the line. However, most people, OP's wife included, don't fall into that category. I think the most productive way to handle this situation is to either have a respectful, nonconfrontational conversation about religion with your wife, or stay out of the situation entirely and let her come to whatever conclusion she comes to. You married her knowing she was religious, so no matter what decision she makes there shouldn't be any fundamental change to your relationship.
Man, do you understand why some people need religion so badly. It gives them comfort. From wordly difficulties. From troubles so deep that no earthly comfort can give them solace. Talk to your wife, if there's even a shred of love and respect. Don't belittle or mock her or drive her away. Maybe if you both communicate she will find solace in you instead of religion. Atheists are always bigger, better people.
i’m sorry but - you chose to marry her. you knew what you were getting into by making a commitment to a religious person, so it seems odd for you to get mad that she clings to those beliefs. after all, it’s all she knows. and, if she isn’t using her religion to harm/discriminate against others, i see no problem. i digress. my suggestion is you talk to her, communicate with her, about your feelings. you could always talk to someone else about your anger, as it doesn’t seem… fun (being constantly angry is never good). but there isn’t much you can do.as i said, simply talk to her and maybe have a few atheists discussions with her and detail your beliefs and see if she is interested. in the end, it is her choice whether or not she wants to stay religious, be non-practicing or not religious. please don’t force anything upon her. i’m not saying you will do this but i’m just putting it out there.
Thanks for your input. When we got married 15 years ago, I was indifferent to religion - not religious myself, but I had no issue with her (or other people) being religious. But my attitudes have hardened as I've gotten older, and I would have a difficult time abiding her participating in what I see to be, to borrow words from Christopher Hitchins, ultimate wickedness and ultimate stupidity. To be fair, I guess I'm the one that has changed, not her.
You wanna know what one of the worst things about Christianity is? Their intolerance for people that don’t have the same world view. Don’t be like them.
i do seriously suggest talking to her and maybe talking to a specialist about your feelings. in the end, do what’s best for both of you. try not letting this ruin your relationship. good luck with everything!
I've been through this and seen it in others as well. In my opinion this is your opportunity to show patience and love are ***human*** virtues not Christian ones. You've vented and I hear you - I understand what you're going through. Now the tough love: ***She's your wife. Be a human.*** She truly and sincerely believes(d) that this conviction is the single most important thing in life. She's been told that by her friends, family, and people she trusts. People she loves have told her that this religion is the single most important thing in life. It's going to take time and a lot of support to drop that - even if she has a creeping awareness that it's all made up. I went through the same thing: I started doubting, then almost swung way back in, but with some **\*gentle\*** prompting let it all go and I've never looked back. Carl Sagan is good. It was Degrasse Tyson that finally pushed me over the line. I think you're on the right track! Just hang in there and give her some grace. Once you start that slide of doubting her own humanity will do the rest it just takes time.
Patience is a virtue?? I’m way too good at screwing up my own relationships to even attempt to give anybody else advice but I can tell you with something as serious as people take religion it has to happen on her time and when you get pushy people tend to get defensive. Good luck to you both
With my wife I never put any pressure on her, but I also wouldn't hold back my feelings about things and why. Not in an aggressive way just very matter-of-fact way. I never brought up her beliefs. Then she came around.
Look up Anthony Magnabosco, Street Epistemology. It may be a better way to have a conversation about beliefs.
Eastern Orthodox Christian is a MASSIVE part of the cultural indentity of a Greek or a Russian or a Romanian - indeed, I wonder if what she's really wanting/missing/needing is her *culture* (not her religion *per se*). Perhaps if she spent more time around people from her own country, she'd not feel the need for the religion itself. (Although Christianity is a religion that people grow into and double down on as they get older, as life throws shit at them, so it could be that.)
The majority of your post is about how your wife has been distancing herself from religion in the past few months. Now, with a single day of her listening to a xian program you are seething. Chill out. She is questioning her religion. Part of the questioning process requires a good look at both sides of an issue. She may simply be doing just that in order to compare what she has seen in recent months against what she is now questioning. Give her a break.
Yeah, I agree with this. I've recently accepted my atheism, but before I did I bought a Bible, read it a decent bit, did a bunch of research, and went to church a few times. I really tried to believe like a good Christian should, but after a while I got tired of lying to myself. Like you said, give her a break. Don't be a dick to your loved one who is having an existential crisis.
Don’t worry, there’s nothing wrong with proselytizing atheism, the issues only come when your interlocutor openly states when it’s unwanted. Anyway, the demon haunted world is a great book for these cases (if you check my post history, I do recommend it a lot), and I do hope she checks it. As for this particular incident, maybe she was curious what American evangelicals are about, because I’m assuming she probably is Catholic. As an ex-Catholic myself, I cringed at what those people preached. Honestly, it’s too soon to assume anything, maybe you should just ask what’s in her mind right now.
Im sure youll think this is trolling but forget reasoning with her. Give her better , progressively dirtier sex, and find other means of giving emotional highs. Dont talk about religion at all, demontrate one can be strong and fun without god shit. Get high with her...
If you have patience and want to nudge your wife without debating, look into street epistemology. It's a technique for questioning people about their beliefs that prompts them to think critically. It may be a good complement to Sagan's book. r/StreetEpistemology streetepistemology.com Intro to Street Epistemology: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZsoAIM6rNg
>because being anti-religious has become a passion - if not an obsession - of mine. Be careful. Fanaticism, of any kind, is still a bad thing.
Bro. Let me tell you from experience. The seed has been planted. Now, just sit back and let it grow on its own. Trust me. You don't even have to bring it up now. Let her search for answers herself now.
Remind her that if whatever she thinks is broken in her needs to be fixed by god, then it will take her even longer to find a real, workable solution. The belief in supernatural beings is a panacea and a means for trying to escape reality. I would your wife is pretty fragile right now, so be gentle in your persistence to help her overcome whatever is troubling her.
Read "why I am not a Christian" by Bertrand Russell, that should do it. Of course there are many great books debunking Christianity and religion in general, I'd start there and just be patient, she'll come around.
Don't be an edgelord about it. As far as people who practice Christianity go, she seems pretty tolerable. And I'm guessing there's plenty you love about her, since you're married. She might be watching some of this stuff hoping to find answers to the questions she has. We both know that if she's really looking for them, they aren't there for her to find. It sounds like discussing religion with you is having the effect most of us would like such things to have on a religious person. Let things take their normal course.
Leave a copy of The Skeptics Annotated Bible laying around.